Far from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the car rental studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show where that is dumb cash is king in the paid off. A mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Dr. John Villone is my co-host today, Ramsey personality, best selling author of the book Redefining Anxiety.

And we're inviting your calls here. Toll free and nationwide, a triple eight eight two five five two two five. As we talk about your life and talk about your money, triple eight eight two five five two, two, five. So John posted on Instagram, dared to do this, that that people should be nice to each other, and you did that on the day of the inauguration. People should be nice to each other. And apparently it's not OK to say you should be nice to each other.

So just for everyone listening, I so most hate mail he's ever really been messing with him. So the conservative said you're a liberal and all the liberals said, well, where have you been?

Protect our rights all along. That's right.

So you're just screwed up. You screwed everybody. Are you asking them to be nice, you word?

Oh, I know. Don't use the word.

And so I don't watch the news just as a general principle because I care about my mental and social and physical and spiritual health. So I stay away from that. And I communicate with your naive. Croot evidently does. So I'm walking through the office and I see the end of the inauguration. I stick my head in and say, oh yeah, that was today. Like a terrible citizen. I get that. And then I see Karl Rove come out and say, I'm just going to say it.

That was a good speech. And I thought, well, America is over, right?

And then I said, oh, yeah. Karl Rove says it's a good speech. Biden has a good speech. The second coming of Jesus is there. It's freezing over or. Yeah, we're all coming to get going to we're going to come together and, you know, I think everyone's going to come together at the end. Who? Boy. So I'm leaving the office after my show yesterday and I posted, hey, it's not fair, but it come together.

We're going to be unified. We're going to say I'm sorry. We're going to ask one more question.

Like, I don't know what you mean by that. Can you help me out? You were asking people to be nice and that's just illegal. Just be kind.

It's I'm surprised that Facebook hasn't completely thrown you off because it's kind of asking people to be nice. Is hate speech. I have an unread message from Zuckerberg. He emailed me last night. I'll open it when I get the courage. Can we just stop? We just stop. People would rather have a terrible day than say, hey, continue what you mean by that.

People would rather have a bad marriage for the point that the hilarious thing is, is that you're so politically naive that you have no idea that you just walked down the alley asking to get hit by both sides. Oh, I told somebody because I can't let you walk people email. And I said, you're so funny. I just walked through my girlfriend's front yard and stepped in dog poo and tracked it all over her parents house without even realizing that's what I did.

I had no idea. I get this day.

The first person who wrote me said something along the lines of, Oh, I see what's going on in China and conspiracy. And I wrote back and I know you didn't.

I answered it. Hey, you've got to stop. I wrote. I wrote. Ha ha ha. Awesome. I thought they were messing with me. Here's the thing, they were not super, they're really mentally ill. They were not messing with me. The Unabomber just sent you a message on Instagram.

Man, listen, listen. Hey, the good news is, is that mental illness is everywhere. And so you got a big job. I tell you what, you got almost as big a job as I do, getting people out of debt and Jenny Craig does the three of us are unemployed, are eternally employable forever.

And if I'll just shut my mouth, the checks will just deposit themselves. Be nice. Be nice. Let's be let's be willing to listen to other people's ideas.

Oh, God, you're a liberal. I didn't know I had to go on Instagram to find out Jon was a liberal. I had no idea. One man, oh, man, I did.

Can you imagine, Dave, I think I just think we need to start in L.A. O'Neills if we can make it even more messed up. No. And Anthony, when Anthony texted you and goes, he just wrote, bro, that's it.

That's what I. I'm probably in trouble. I don't know what I did. Jeez Louise.

Oh, well, if y'all don't know, John has been a Ramsey personality for a little under a year now.

And so he's gotten a few baptism by fire and learning that the trolls and the singular words misused in the wrong timing on social media will get you hate mail by the bushel.

Well, here's the thing, Dave Beelman, man, I don't know. Don't answer. I answer all letters that come today, Ramsey. They go to Paddy's Desk. We answer everyone who makes up hate mail. Yeah.

And send them to me. I'm going to respond to them. No, no, no. I use them for kindling. There you go.

I have to have something to light my fires in the winter and there's a lot of kindling in my house.

So, yeah, it's it's I'm not going to stop talking about this one thing, OK? If somebody has hurt you in the past, if somebody disagrees with you. All going to war accomplishes all find if you finding somebody new to hate, Dave will not solve any of your problems.

And if you want to have a conversation, great. It doesn't mean kindness, doesn't mean you're going to agree. Kind of doesn't mean we're not going to fight hard. Con means I'm going to be respectful and to listen to you. So I'm going to keep encouraging people in your homes with your kids, in your workplace, in your community, wherever.

Just listen first. Just listen. And if you don't understand, ask this next question. I don't understand what you mean by that. Keep keep coming on that. The fill me in and man you all we often will find we are way, way closer together on so many things man.

So many things.

You see you're making the assumption there that you're dealing with someone who's not. I know. I know. I just have such a high view of people. You're so kind and sweet. Hey, those kids guy tells me he says is stupid enough to attract me listening to you. I'm going to keep you from being stupid. You're right.

I'm not going to bother. Email me. I'll listen to you, John. He's he's he's still he's got still check you back. Check back with him in one more year.

Man, you got a few more emails from the Unabomber and then we'll see. We're going to blow up the building.

Please don't don't want to tell my kids bye. Yeah. Yeah. Well, usually people are going to blow up the building. Don't tell you they're going to. So that's a good news. OK, man, for you listening. Do not use the word. Yeah, I really don't don't don't say we want to be unified.

Don't say kindness. Don't say nice. Just say don't say sorry. Don't say say you're sorry. Don't ever never be sorry. Never be sorry. I can't.

You know what, those people are going to cut and paste this and they're going to see C and it's going to be me and Dave going don't say sorry, don't say sorry. You know what you think the first time it's happened.

OK, Louise, I there's so much video of me on YouTube that has been cut and paste. Is it awesome? It's just yeah, I've said a lot of stuff.

I never said, hey, it's brains did that to me the other day and it's fantastic man. Yeah. The guys in our booth think they can put together stuff on us and they do it frequently just to mess with us. Well, the problem with James is what I said. I said it's I can't really have context. Context is overrated. You say, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, well, there we go. Oh, be kind America.

Be kind unified. Slow down, slow down. Too far down. I didn't say that. I just said because we got some crap we got to figure out. Oh this is the Dave Ramsey Show. Your number one wealth building tool is your income for business owners, this comes as no surprise as you're used to putting in extra hours and watching your bottom line. That's why Christian Healthcare Ministries, or S.A.M., is a great option for those who are faith focused and budget conscious.

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Dr. John Delany Ramsey personality is my co-host today, open phones, a triple eight eight two five five two two five. Ryan is in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, Ryan. Welcome to The Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, David. John, thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So my wife and I just paid off our house last October. So, baby, seven years out. Yes. We're trying to figure out what to do with the extra money we're having from not having a mortgage payment.

Way to go. So no problems. Yes, so my wife's a dentist and she's currently buying into the practice that she works, that we're actually able to do this without taking out a loan by her paying repartner each month for equity in the practice. And then their plan was to do this for four years and then at the end of the fourth year, she would purchase the rest of practice from him. So we're currently in the last year of that plan and we're planning on getting a business loan to pay off the rest of the practice after this year.

So my question is with that with that business loan coming up in the next year and we have all this extra money from not having a house payment anymore, should we save up that money and take out a smaller loan, or should we wait no longer to save for retirement or no? Yeah. How much is the loan? How much is the buyout at the end of the end of the year? It's about four hundred eighty thousand dollars that you're going to need more than she's already paid in.

Yes. Who? Just a serious practice or you're seriously overpaying. OK, anyway, I want you to go relook those numbers and just make sure that you're not overpaying for this dentists'.

Yeah. Have a reputation for overpaying. Yeah, we have a we have an accountant that works in buying out dental practices. He looks at the numbers and he said, for our area, for the size of the practice, this was a good price. He actually said, we're getting a deal. So, OK, all right.

It must be mammoth. OK.

OK, so what's your household income combined right now with her paying her partner is about two hundred thousand dollars. OK, but then after, after she owns the entire practice she says we'll probably be three hundred fifty thousand dollars conservatively.

OK, so yeah.

What I would like you to do is to save as much as you can possibly save, almost like your own baby. Step to again. Real intensity, because I really don't want you to have this alone, but it sounds like you're going to, but let's make it as small as you can possibly make it and then let's pay it off as fast as you possibly can.

OK, we've done a lot of work over the years with a lot of dentists and honorary leadership and also just in financial coaching and the the amount of debt around being a dentist is it's it's mind blowing in general and in that in the community that your wife works, walks in every day, a million dollars or a half million dollars in debt for the rest of your life is not unusual.

It's standard. And you can get sucked into that paradigm. And I'm going to challenge you not to I'm going to challenge you to get this paid off like it was a credit card. Like you were ashamed of this debt. You follow me. Yes, don't normalize it and keep it like it's a bad gum pet. So limit the size of it this year by saving everything and get your hands on and then get into attack mode and finish and take out as a small loan as you can and take that loan out.

And it sounds to me like you can take that loan out in 12 to 18 months from the time it's going to be a very short period of time. If you guys won't go back and act like now I'm a rich dentist or something.

I did some research back in grad school on the mental health of doctors and physicians and nurses. And one of the worst subgroups was dentists and a half.

I wonder, high rate of suicide high.

We'll have to wonder if it's this crushing debt that you just carry around and carry around that's normed in that community, more so than some of these other communities.

Yeah, the. Borrowed future podcast that we did, we interviewed a dentist that had over a million dollars in debt and student loans. Yeah, yeah. And the guy was just crying.

Yeah, he was just crying because you can't you can't clean your teeth. You can't clean your way out of that, right.

Yeah, well, you can, but it's just I mean, but it got one you didn't have you got to have a certain level of and you got to you got to have some specialization in the thing or you might have some volume or something to get the income up.

But it sounds like she's going to be making out of the 350.

I'm I don't know. But I mean, it sounds like she's going to be making a chunk of money, a quarter million dollars a year or part. So.

Yeah, let's use that, let's use everything we can to to limit this, and then when you don't have any payments in the world and you're making 350 now, you're in the kinds of things right.

And it does change the way you operate a business. It changes the way you view going to work. It changes when you own a practice or you own a business. When you get the debt off of you put it the borrower, the lender, it changes the way you stand, the way you walk, the way you carry yourself.

Dustin is in Naples, Florida. Hi, Dustin. Welcome to The Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave, how are you? Great man, how can we help? My wife and I are on TV sets, number two was baby number two on the way. We have over time, we have our years and we're going to sell our house to move closer to work at the same company. Yes, but you may be renting. Yes, that's what we plan to do until we get out of step two, three and say, look, I don't know how much closer can you move to work?

We can move lady two minutes away. Yeah, and so you're going to get two hours of your life times two parents, four out, four hours of parenting returned to you rather than be in the car every day. Absolutely, I'm doing this I do it today, yes, yeah, I've an 11 minute commute, and if there's no traffic less, that will be illegal.

But but yeah, so I you know, I don't want to spend my life doing that.

A lot of people do. And it's normalized. And some people redeem the time with audio books and other things. And there's all kinds of ways you can do it if you have a commute commute to normal in large metro areas. But it is a decision that you're making and you ought to make it intentionally.

And if you can change it and get more sections of your life back, I highly recommend you do.

Not to mention you cut your your debt load back that I mean, you're going to find yourself with less stress and four hours of your life back. I mean, that's a that's a big turnaround for your whole home.

Yeah.

The the level of simply the amount of sleep you're getting will change me and sleep the ability to just have conversations with your spouse, ability to be present with your kids, all that's going well.

They're in the car nowadays. They're getting the opportunity for conversation to drop.

But but yeah, it's just yeah, that's if you're in an area and Naples is an area where you don't have to do a one hour commute in order to just have a job and be able to have a place to live. And yeah, I'm I always encourage that.

Now, for those of you listening out there, that is not to say you move up in house into a more expensive house while the homes in the neighborhood are more expensive, well, then you maybe can't make that move right or save your money.

You need to move a lateral move down and or become a renter for a period of time to get your finances under control.

Don't use this as an excuse to go to an increase in debt and increase in house price purchase.

And, you know, John, the. With personal finance being 80 percent behavior, 20 percent had knowledge, the behavior aspects having you around to talk about this stuff is has been and it's been helpful, very helpful.

But the.

The power of the human mind to rationalize. Into to do something stupid and figure out a way and twist it in our brain to where it sounds smart.

Yeah, we will find what we are looking for. And if I find a way the math works in my favor, I will champion that. If I find the way I can make this my wife's fault, not mine, I will champion it if I can find a way to hear what Dave Ramsey just told me. He told me to sell the house and move and buy a double the price in town. He heard him. Yeah, right. We'll find a way to lie to ourselves to make that happen.

We have a hard time telling ourselves the truth. The guy drove two miles to our to mount, bought a thirty thousand dollar pickup because his old pickup that was paid for in the driveway that didn't get good gas, might get a bike, didn't get good gas mileage, get a bike. But you get through that no truck to the moon and back to get enough gas mileage to pay for it. That's a somebody who lied to himself. So you get a new truck.

That's exactly right.

I'm talking about this. Is that I Ramsey show. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt free stage, Caleb is with us. Caleb, how are you, man? I'm excellent. How are you? Better than I deserve. Welcome. Where do you live? Fort Worth, Texas. Oh, good for you. John always connects up with the Texans. You know, the boy. There we go. So how much debt to be paid off, brother?

One hundred and ten thousand dollars. Well, one hundred ten thousand six hundred ninety five dollars and two cents, to be exact. How long have you how long did this take? Forty six months. Wow. And your range of income. Sixty thousand to seventy two thousand. What do you do for a living high school band director? All right. Good for you. Yeah. Kind of debt was the 111.

A little bit of everything. Undergrad graduate interest on those student loans, credit cards, car French horn, and then a loan from the bank of mum and dad.

Oh, everybody's in line. Yeah, everybody had a long line, too.

It was a lot like the French horn. Debtors are fierce, right, dude? You don't want to mess with them. Break your knees, man. Don't want to mess with the French horn mafia.

So what happened? Forty six months ago. They let you up, man. I was in grad school already deep in more debt. And one of my friends put on her Facebook that she wrote this book called Total Money Makeover. And it sparked my interest. I reached out to her and then I got the book actually in January of twenty sixteen. And it was really stressful because I didn't have an income. So I wanted to do all these things, but I had to wait until I had a full income.

So for about six to seven months I was living off of my student loans, like agonizing, waiting for a real job to finish school and get an income to get going on it.

So so soon as you hit the ground after school, you took off. Yeah, over two thousand bucks a month. And I did everything in the book to pay it off quickly.

I had amazing congratulations. Thank you. I was a big mountain to climb. Yeah.

A lot of vacations that I didn't go on or things that I didn't buy. Old truck that I kept way too long.

Almost four years. Yeah. And so you're what, in your late 20s. How old are you. Yeah. We'll go with that. No, I'm thirty, thirty one.

OK, thirty one. Well close enough. Yeah.

And so yeah. Like you're everybody that your friends are out doing all kinds of stuff and you're working to get out of debt. Yeah.

A lot of my friends would go on vacations or even if I could go on like a wedding trip, I wouldn't do the extra things that they were all out doing. I was just happy to be at the wedding and, you know, pay for the rental tux. But it's like we're going rafting. I was like like I got to say no. At some point, guys, I got to pay off my debt eventually.

So, yeah, I'm so band directors are similar to football coaches. Right. Especially in Texas. You're you're inspiring young people. You're getting them to to think, to understand they're bigger than they have bigger dreams. They can accomplish more than they thought. They had to go past limitations. How has this journey impacted how you impact high school kids?

This is a metaphor for a lot of my students, like kind of laughingly roll their eyes. But this has become a metaphor. And one of my students, when I was teaching in Houston suggested that I start a YouTube channel. So I would just make little YouTube videos about how to budget and how to think about money.

The Future Millionaire Band Director. It's got eight hundred subscribers, Dave watching.

Right. And you got the title, too. Yes, I like the title a lot.

And so that kind of now I'm doing like a little mini series about like getting students ready for college and what kind of questions to ask how to go to college for free. There are still music scholarships out there, things like that. We're going to double your subscription today. Let's hope so. So tell everybody again, what's the YouTube channel? What's it called? The Future Millionaire Band Director. All right, everybody go sign up and watch it. It's got everything.

It's got high school band. It's got college advice and financial advice. I mean, what more could you want? Nothing.

That's awesome, man. Why did it go? Very cool. So now that.

I mean. The impressive part about your numbers is not only the height and the amount which is huge that you're knocked out, but the fact you stick with something 46 freaking months, most people in America can't stick with something 46 seconds.

They can't be married for six months. How did you do this, man? Well, my twin sister always says that I'm, like, super obsessive when I do something, I just jump, like, all in. And this is one of those things that I became obsessive about when I was living in Houston. My family's from DFW, so I would drive to see them listening to the podcast, obsessing over my every dollar budget, like where can I work?

And I like, shrink the budget, where can I fix it and what happened? Do I need to change? Can I carpool to work? Do I need to move out to a bigger rent house so I can pick up another roommate to lower the rent. It was like every part of the budget got a good look at least once, a once or twice a week to figure out how to, you know, scrape some off. You know, you went truly Gizelle into that obsessive I do this thing.

I'm going I'm going to do this and really put the blinders on. And you really don't hear the negative voices much when you get that fired up.

Yeah, I was fortunate enough that my family was like, you're crazy, but go for it. But you're ours. Yeah, you're our crazy. And my my students were also super supportive. Like, any time I would bring my lunch break, I look at you, Mr. Shue, like you taking care of your your finances. And it was it was really cool.

Yeah. Why did go. Oh, man.

So someone coming out of grad school with the power that right now, like you did forty six months ago, is listening. What do you tell them?

The secret to getting out of debt is I remember reading one of the chapters of your book and it was for me, I had to first understand that debt wasn't a tool. I used to tell my students like way back in the day that you had to take out student loans if you wanted to use that as an investment in your future. And because I thought that was a tool to get you somewhere. And I, I think that if anybody has got to pay off their debt, they're got to understand that first and foremost, debt is not a tool.

And if they don't understand that concept, they will never get out of the gate even. And I've got a lot of friends who say that they're going to pay off their car or their credit card. But I'm not. I'm to keep my student loans for forever. I have friends who have told me that they're just going to be in debt for the rest of their life. So they have to understand, first and foremost that debt is not a tool.

It's an anchor. Yeah, yeah. That's a big one. That's a big one. And and then you said, you know, you were obsessive and that's what enabled you to persevere and stick with something almost four years. That's so impressive. So impressive. Very cool. I'm so proud of you, man. Well done. Very, very well done.

Who were your biggest cheerleaders? Oh, for sure. My my dad was always super supportive. My family was really, really supportive, even if they were making fun of me, my coworkers who I went to work with every day, you know, we would go out to lunch once a week and sometimes I would not have budget anymore to go out to lunch. And so I would just bring my lunch to wherever we went out to eat. And they were always super supportive.

My students give me lots of positive vibes. My boyfriend was super supportive about the whole thing. And so now any time I offer to buy dinner, he's always super used.

Like he's like, oh, we're going to loosen the budget a little bit for that. Well, well done, sir.

Very, very proud. I'm proud of you, man. Thank you. Thank you.

I got a copy of Chris Hogan's book for you every day, millionaires, and that definitely is the next chapter in your story. So we're excited for you. Well done. Well done.

Came up from Fort Worth, Texas. One hundred and eleven thousand dollars paid off in forty six months, making 60 to seventy two thousand countdown. Let's hear a debt free scream. Three to one. I'm debt free. Well done, well done, well done, great job, man, that's a that's a lot of money over a long period of time. Forty six months. And I got to tell you, man, he's right.

You do have to become obsessive. That was really good. A really good analysis on his part.

Forty six months, Dave. People can't it's we're at the end of January. Ninety nine percent of Americans quit their New Year's resolutions already, right? Yep.

I just made this that up, by the way, because it supported what I was trying to say here. But you just keep going. Eighty eight percent of the statistics are made up on the fence. Right.

But you just keep going and going and going. What will you persevere? You know, I remember the first time I ever actually went in a gym and got a personal trainer many, many years ago. I would have loved to have been there for that.

Yeah, you wouldn't have either. It was ugly. It was really ugly. And but, you know, we couldn't get on the treadmill and stuff because there's too many people. Right. Couldn't cut it. The machines were busy. Everything's busy, busy, busy. And it's like right now I was like second, third week of January. And he goes on about it, Valentine's Day, they'll all be going to be gone. It's the Valentine's Day curse, 45 days.

The gym is empty again. People can't stick with it. 45 days, 46 months.

Wow. You know, kind of stuck with this.

And I liked what he said about it's all of it. It was the personal decision to listen to things and then to practice and then to have accountability and have friends and have students who are watching him to make sure it was all of that all together. Yeah, right. It's everything. It's not just one thing or this thing or one big, great neurotic speech.

And then you're like, I'm it's all of it over and over and over again that it is a marathon. It is not a sprint. And the good news about someone is don't like it like Caleb is he will never go back. Oh, man, it's over. He has to stick with it for six months. You have to be changed inside. I love it. Not just have a cursory drive by with the ideas. And he gave a picture to how who knows how many young people.

That's a sacrifice. Looks like that's what's bringing you lunch. Looks like that's what that old truck looks like. And they got a new picture of what debt free living can look like. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Thanks for joining us. America, this is the Dave Ramsey Show, Open Phones, a triple eight eight two five five two two five. Dr. John Boloney Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Fred is with us. Fred is in Idaho Falls, Idaho.

Hey, Fred, what's up?

Hey, what's your recommendation for long term care insurance? You usually recommend it at 60. The statistics are, you know, history. You'd probably wouldn't use it for 20 plus years should you invest that premium money into a good growth account and insure yourself insured?

Well, let me pull up my cheat sheet here on your statistics, because they're wrong, but I don't have them memorized. So I'm going to flip through my cheat sheet here. 70 percent of the people over 65 will require some type of long term care before their death, seven out of 10 Americans will spend some time in a nursing home at some point. So I the numbers that I have seen and I don't have them on this cheat sheet, but let's see here, maybe if I can find anything here, the average age of a claimant is 79.

To your point show 71 percent of claimants are women, 51 percent are due to cognitive issues. That was a new one I hadn't seen before.

OK, so the numbers that I've seen and they're not on this sheet. And so I'm doing this from memory, Fred, are that it's less than one half of one percent of the people prior to 60 years nursing homes. And so never by a long term care insurance policy until you're 60.

But when I looked at the stats, the reason I came up with that number was the reason I came up with that as my guideline for folks, because I do believe in long term care insurance, unless you have five million dollars or more in net worth because you can self insure then but that the percentage increased likelihood of use of a nursing home after age 60, the percentage increase, the graph was such a steep curve, like every minute you're over 60, your your chances of going increase dramatically.

And so if you have a substantial net worth over 60 like five million plus, you'd self insure. But otherwise I'm going to tell you to get a policy. But you would be right. The older you get, the higher the likelihood is you're going to use it. And that my cheat sheet says the average age of someone using it is 79.

The other thing that can happen in your 60s, even if you're not using it until your 70s, is you have a higher probability of losing your health just due to getting old and therefore not qualifying to get a policy.

That's what I was wondering. Is it cheaper to buy in if you buy in at a younger age? Well, that's what people want people to do at 40.

You know, it's much cheaper to buy at 40 or 50, but your likelihood of using it is so low that it doesn't the premiums don't offset. So it doesn't work out. So insurance companies are pretty good at math. They they do a good job about figuring out that premium. If you have an insurance premium is cheap. There's a reason it's a very low probability of the event happening, whatever the event is. Right. And so it doesn't cost much.

Well, there's going to happen. I mean, that's what you're looking at.

So statistically, I remember clearly the conversation my parents and I had when they told us I think it was for Christmas. That's what we got for Christmas.

They gave you a long term care policy. They got themselves. I know. And that was giving you a gift.

And it was we all it was just this. Oh, right. Because because me and my brother and sister had talked about it. Hey, what's going to happen if and we had talked to my dad and my mom and they circled up and said, it's it's it's going to lean on us a little bit budget wise, but it's the right thing to do.

And it was a gift. Yeah. Yeah, it is. And 70 percent of the ladies outlive their husbands. Mm hmm. And so if you're listening out there, a married couple ladies, the typical scenario that's tragic is papa goes into the nursing home after a thousand dollars in savings. He burns through it, cracks and scrambles the nest egg and dies, you know, and then mom is left to live 10 more years with no money. Right.

Because it all went to the nursing home. And so that's why you get long term care and insurance policies.

It's for you ladies, actually, statistically speaking, anyway.

And yet the highest number of claimants is female. But that also would be after the husband predeceases them, 75 percent of those with predecease or watch.

That makes sense, because when I used to visit my grandparents in the nursing home, there's always that guy. So he must be in the other percent. Right. The one guy that just thinks he's he's Casanova.

That's right. He's 88. He's a rare bird. Yeah. He's waving that cane around like he's attending a girl girl's college and got in. Yeah. He's got it made.

So rather, you're not that handsome, you know, he's just rare, which is also an advantage if you don't have the other one. Johns, whether it's Kentucky.

Hey, John, how are you all. Sure. Okay, I'll just get to the point here real quick. My son needs braces. If we take the braces up front, we will save five hundred dollars out of forty six hundred dollars.

So we'll it'll be able to pay for forty one hundred dollars. Now we have thirty seven hundred dollars in savings. We have forty five hundred dollars in the bank so we could pay for that cash. Now she wants to pay for it to save the five hundred dollars. I don't want, I want to pay the thousand dollars and then we can make it's one hundred eighty eight dollars payments for twenty months because my furnace is 17 years old and my car has almost 300000 miles on it and I drive twenty seven miles one way every day and I just need some more.

OK, well. I've been doing the show 28 years, I've never told anybody borrow money yet, and this is borrowing money so far.

So I got to tell her she's right.

You want me to blow the whistle and throw the flag?

I can, but yeah, but you're right, too.

I mean, you've got some valid concerns there. So how do we what are some ways we can look at how we get to these other issues, the furnace and the car, because we're taking you dangerously low on cash.

And so if we're going to do this for this child now and not wait six months, which probably wouldn't be the end of the world if you did, I'm not I'm not an expert on dentistry, but I suspect they would probably still be able to straighten their teeth if you wait six months and which might be a plan. And during that six months, pile up some more cash to where it gives all of you some more comfort.

That's probably what the Ramsey's would have done. But if you don't do that, then what we do have to do is we have to put the house on the whole home on beans and rice, rice and beans, as if you had a bunch of credit card debt or something and you were being so intense because you've got some known things coming at you. So your analysis of that is correct. I mean, that furnace is going to go out and that car is going to go.

There's not any question in your mind or my mind. I just don't know when. It's not a matter of if. It's just when is it six months or is it 18 months? But it's not it's not eight years.

You know, I never even thought that this sounds silly, I never thought that within six months he less half of the. I've never thought about waiting six months.

I'm sure the doctor is going to tell you that I'm a quack, because when it comes to dentistry, I am I have no qualifications whatsoever except I'm a dad that a couple of sets of braces over the years. I did I did do the same exact analysis. And they they make it almost sound like you're not borrowing money. It's more like you're renting these braces. But they'll give you a discount for paying the rental upfront, like they're going to rent them after you get them back.

But anyway, I don't. But it's to me, I looked at it with our two that had braces as debt and I just prepaid it like your wife is suggesting.

But I think that means that we have to look at there's three valid things that need to occur here, furnished car braces. And we've got to treat all of them like they're very important because they are in John.

And I need you didn't ask for this, but I got to speak it out there. I know the tension I feel when I want to buy something, when I have to buy something.

And then my wife says, hey, Hank needs shoes. And the temptation is to let him know I'm buying you these shoes at a cost.

Right. So the temptation is going to take that. Boy, you better appreciate where I'm driving this truck because and what I'm going to ask you to do is don't put that in the heart and soul of your girl, 11 year old, that he's a burden to his family. The dad can't drive to work or we can't have any chance to say that.

And, you know, he didn't. I know. Make it sure he doesn't know if everybody out there, man, take care of your kids because it's the right thing to do. And don't don't make them feel more of a burden. They already do. Yeah. They make good stuff and be kind and unified. And, you know, Dave, stop with your propaganda. Just God, this is the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer and phone screener for The Dave Ramsey Show.

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