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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutia, broadcasting from it on our car rental studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show where dad is dumb. Cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I am Dave Ramsey, your host, Chris Hogan Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Open the phones.


A triple eight eight two five five two two five. Steve is with us in Erie, Pennsylvania. Hi, Steve.


Welcome to The Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, thank you. How can we help? Well, my question is regarding choosing a financial partner, looking towards marriage. OK. So currently, I'm in a serious relationship, you know, we're both pursuing a longer goal, but I've noticed some things that are red flags, I would say, and I'm not sure if I'm being overcritical in it or just being attentive to the situations of those individuals. For instance, there are a couple of examples I can give.


One of them is if we were to both go out to a restaurant, this person's been unemployed for the past nine months, you know, they will order the most expensive items on the menu every single time when they are being paid for. But when it's my turn to pay it, I always pick the cheapest, keeping in mind the fact that we're both students and I'm also working currently. Mm hmm. The second example would be he just graduated and he took two months to get persuaded into looking for jobs seriously.


And now that he's found one within three days, he's already considering quitting. For me, it just seems a bit of a red flag. Steve, how long have you all been together?


About eight months. How old are you guys? I'm sorry, but how old are you? Gosh. I am twenty seven, and he is about to be twenty six. OK. Stevie, I'm going to tell you something I think I don't I think whenever you have those red flags and these things that you're talking about and looking at, these are things that I think there are probably more that you could allude to if we really pressed and talked. I'm going to tell you, you're probably dealing with someone that's not motivated.


And this to me could sound like it could end up being a project for you later in life on many other fronts. I would move on. I really and truly would. Because you want someone that that's that's that's equal with you that wants to chase and conquer and work together as a team right now in the rowboat, you're the person that's rowing and his relaxing. And I don't think that that's the kind of life you want long term for you and your and your own legacy.


Yes, and also it's a concern to well, a lot of people here, my major, they're like, oh, you're going to make money, but they don't realize the investment that's gone into it and the work that's gone behind funding my own education. Yeah, well, you're a driven person.


You're motivated. You've got things that you want to accomplish. And I don't think there's anything wrong with allowing this individual to be a good friend. But I wouldn't move on if I were you. I think you've seen enough red flags to let you know something's not quite right here.


You know, sometimes sometimes a way to. It's a little tough for us and a two minute radio call to dictate the next decade of your future with a relationship situation, but a couple of things pop into my mind. Just hearing your story and listening to you.


There's no question you're a very goal oriented person. You have a lot of initiative and a lot of drive. And so you're and you're self-aware enough to know I could be overly concerned about this. I could be a little bit legalistic about it. And that's good to worry about that a little bit to be on your part.


You don't wanna be a you know, and be a jerk on every little detail. Right. But the things that you the second thing that you mentioned, unemployed for nine months finally does get a job and then immediately hates the job and wants to quit.


You know, just that one sounds a lot more serious than just the price of your entree, you know, and the lack of manners around ordering the expensive thing when you're not paying Manor's.


I mean, if if we tell somebody not to get married based on manners, Sharon wouldn't have ever married me. I didn't have any manners. I still don't have a lot. But she's taught me a few. But the finally figured out which fork and all that stuff, but the but so one to two things pop into my head that I always think of when I'm in situations like yours.


Three things I had another one popped into my head. One is a buddy of mine says when there's something bothering you down inside, when your spirit is disturbed, there's a reason and your spirits disturbed.


And that's why you called.


And you're just looking for someone to confirm to you that it's OK to have a disturbed spirit.


And he always says, when in doubt, don't. So if a deal feels funny, if I'm working on a business deal or a client and it feels funny, there's a reason it feels funny or something really going on there, you know, and that's not that is not to be discounted. And so that that concerns me about your situation. The second thing is there's a book that my friend Henry Cloud did called Necessary Endings. When do you end a relationship of any kind?


When do you end a relationship where you like I say, I'm going to quit a job or I'm going to do a breakup or I'm going to end a marriage or I'm going to end this friendship? When do you end a relationship? It is when you lose hope that the thing of concern is never going to get any better.


And the character qualities that you lack of character that you've outlined falls in that category. And so when in doubt, don't. And then the last thing that popped into my head was this.


Ask yourself because you're wise beyond your years. 15, 20 years from now, your teenager girl, your teenage daughter is sitting in front of you and she asks you this exact question, what are you going to tell her about this boyfriend, mom and that one?


That may end it for him. No, I mean, because that he may be done when you ask me that calls yourself out of the middle of it and now you're looking and talking to someone you love.


In other words, does the 35 year old you have respect for the twenty seven twenty six year old you now when you look back and you go, you dodged a bullet on that one or hey, I'm glad I didn't overreact to a little thing.


That's right. That's a good one of the two ways. So that's a great perspective. And just back up from it a little bit. And so those are three things that I use. I look for that kind of a thing and say, you know, long term, am I going to be glad I did this right?


Because if you back off and say long term, is this a good investment long term, am I glad that when I'm 75 years old, I mean, or if we're negotiating severance with somebody that we've let go here. Right. And a few dollars makes it better that the pain of someone leaving the building, I'm never going to regret those few dollars on my bet on my death bed when I'm 78. Right. That's great. And I would regret that a relationship was ruined.


I didn't need to be ruined right now. Long term perspective, good perspective. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Well, we all have enough on our plates, right? The last thing we need is to not get a good night's sleep. Think about how effective you're going to be during the day if you can't even think clearly because you didn't actually arrest. That's one of the reasons I've been recommending Tufte and Neidl. My family has their mattresses and they start as low as three hundred fifty dollars plus you can try it out.


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Chris Hogan Ramsey, personality number one, best selling author, is my co-host today here on The Dave Ramsey Show, got a special treat for me and I hope and I think for all of you as well. I've got my friend Clark Howard on the line. Hey, Clark. How are you, brother?


It's so great to join you. How are you doing today, man? I am great. For those of you across America that have been living in a cave somewhere, you don't know things. But if you do know things, you know, Clark Howard is a big deal in talk radio and has been for several decades. He and I have been in the same space, the money space and the consumer advocate space he spent spends a lot of his time on the air talking about originally talking about how to get a good deal like an airline ticket.


He still does some of that and has had several number one bestselling books. He's on the National Radio Hall of Fame.


Our paths of intersected many times.


I've got huge respect for this guy and he has just made the decision to retire from radio. He's going to continue to teach and continue to have the Clark Howard show on podcast and and the work he does on his Web sites and everything. But we just wanted to have him on and honor my friend because he's done so much for so many decades for so many people using the power of radio to help them.


Clark. Thank you, brother. Well, thank you.


And you and I were inducted in the Hall of Fame on the same night like it was six years ago, something like that. Yeah, that's exactly right.


That's true. Yeah. Irony of ironies, because you and I really I think we're probably the by far the two largest names in radio in the money space or the consumer space.


I guess there were a couple of other people on radio back in the day doing this stuff when we were there. But I think they've moved moved on to retirement many years ago. And I think you and I could be wrong about this, but I think you and I are the only two people in syndicated radio just about the history of syndicated radio that own and operate our own shows rather than working for the man. You know what?


That's true.


That would be true, let's say, of size. There's a few of them do it that have two shows or are two or three stations. But you had a pretty substantial network and we do, too. And yeah, that's exactly right. And you had resisted that.


So I stumbled across your retirement because we picked up like ten or 15 of your old stations. When you when you.


Wow. Congratulations. Thank you. Yeah. It was a natural fit. And I was complimented that those stations thought that, you know, that I could you know, that that audience of yours would accept me as well as anything else or better than anything else out there. And so that added to our network.


So it's good they didn't none of those stations got handed off to the man where you are so much more energetic than I am that I reached a point where I'm working so much and our website, you know, because digital is where the growth is. It was absorbing so much of my time that I was getting to a point where I was exhausted all of the time. And so something had to give and gave for me. I had to go away.


Was radio, you know, just weren't enough hours in the day for me. And so the podcast and the website, that's where it's at for me now.


So when someone if they haven't for some reason, listen to the Clark Howard show and they tune it up on a podcast right now, what are they going to hear? What are you covering? How are they. I know, but I'm giving you an underhand pitch here.


Tell them what your project is about. So what I very heavily concentrate on is something I heard in one of your spots a minute ago. It's about how to get your spending under control. How do you get your life where you need it to be, where you're living consistently every pay period on less than what you make. And there are so many things we do now. We have so many decisions we have to make if we get overwhelmed and we end up spending money on things and then the bills become automatic where they're deboning our checking account or whatever every month.


And so I really try to get people to focus on controlling those expenses when we're winning with the big ones, housing and cars, how those can eat out too much of your wallet. And then with the regular spending, how to get those things under control where you don't just set them and forget them, you pay attention to them so that you have more money left at the end of every pay period.


And of course, that's where we're completely aligned.


And you know why people that are fans of Clark Howard are often fans of Dave Ramsey and vice versa.


Now, what you are light years better at and always have been that I hope, than I have been is you really dig up deals and you keep a good list of them and present them to your audience. I mean, you've got Clark deals, dot com. You can just go to that Web site and find out a list of your deals. Right.


OK, so this is the angel on one shoulder, devil on the other side. Here I am talking about spend, spend, spend last and say, wait a minute, you got to know about this deal so you don't look at the deals. You got the other part together. But yes, I love the bargains and I love for people to know how to go when something is a deal instead of a pretend there's because somebody says something is for sale.


How do you know it's really a sale and not a non sale sale? And so I want people to be as efficient with their spending as they possibly can so that they free up choices in their lives. You know, I want people to not feel like they're having to work because they're facing a mountain of expense and bills and obligations. I want them to work because they love what they do. And then I want them to have excess money so they can put it to work in good ways in the world.


So they tithe or they give to organizations that they care about, that they spend time serving others and whatever way works best for them. So having money available isn't with money being your God? No, it's about living on less than what you make so that you can have the freedom to do more things that you enjoy and in service to others. And it works every time.


Clark Howard is our guest. This segment. He is retired from radio, but not from broadcasting. You can still hear the Clark Howard show on podcast. Go to Clark Dotcom. It's available on all the platforms. Be sure you continue to tune in. And for those of you that for some reason have not tuned in prior to now, I'll give it my hearty endorsement. And so be sure you do that. He and I have been friends, acquaintances for a long, long.


The time we've been in the same space here and radio both trying to survive in a corporate world, this kind of cutthroat, and both of us have survived and we have both prospered by delivering good, solid content to our audience and helpful content to our audiences. And just a good man. He's also a huge philanthropist. He gives and gives and gives and gives. He lives.


He walks the talk for sure. If I remember right.


Did you and I not do a radiothon at a cancer hospital there in Atlanta?


We did. We did. I do a fund raiser for children's cancer centers in not just Atlanta, but other places as well. Because, you know, when I see a child suffering from cancer, it affects not just that child, but the whole family. And it just eat at my heart as a father of three children. I remember touring thing. I remember during that meeting some of those kids, some of those kids that were going through that and their parents.


And you just go there with your stomach in your throat. It's amazing. But it was an honor to get to work on that with you.


So I know not just the money that I'm able to raise. I also want to raise awareness. I want people to know the phenomenal people who work as nurses and doctors and other people in hospitals to take on one of the most difficult tasks of all, which is to get attached to a child and watching their child suffer. And I mean, that is a very special kind of human being who chooses to work in a children's cancer center and the great work they do.


You know, the survival rate of children's cancers now is above 80 percent. And if you go back two generations ago, it was only twenty five percent.


Know, they really, really are beating it. It's pretty amazing. Pretty amazing. Well, Clark, thank you for taking time to join us.


Congratulations on your partial retirement here.


Thank you. And continued success to you and to the people who watch me on my various TV affiliates around the country. I really am as ugly as I look on TV, but that's OK. The information is beautiful.


All right, folks, be sure to tune in to Clark Howard, the Clark Howard Show. Anywhere you listen to podcasts, you'll be glad you did. Congratulations, my friend. Thank you for taking time to come on shore and continued success year to date. God bless. All right. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. I heard a statistic recently that absolutely blew my mind in the US alone, over 3000 people die every day without life insurance. What are people thinking?


I don't understand how taking care of your family isn't a top priority. Use the New Year as a reason to do something right, like protecting your family term. Life insurance is something that every family needs. It's not complicated. It's not expensive. And Zander Insurance is the only place I recommend go to Zahner dotcom or call them at 800 three five six 42 82. That's Zander Dotcom. Chris Ogen Ramsey personality is my co-host today, open funds, the Elite eight two five five two two five.


That's triple eight eight to five five two to five. Britney's in Amarillo, Texas. Hi, Britney. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave.


It's such an honor to speak with you. I loved The Reset last night.


Thank you. Glad you watched. I appreciate it. Hogan did a great job, Danny.


I can't even say how much I loved it. It was wonderful.


Well, thank you very much. How can we help today?


I'm hoping that maybe you can help me decide if I should delay going to school for one year to save up money or if I should just jump in a little bit of information. If I'm a 28 year old single mom and make forty thousand dollars a year, I'm in baby step three and have four thousand dollars saved. And I've been cash flowing school part time right now with grants and different things that I'm pursuing a degree or a career in dental hygiene, which is a full time program, and the cost is in increases once I get into the program.


So I'm looking at going this fall for that. But I don't know if I should wait and save up a bunch of money because I have to be working part time. Or if I should just go and try to cash flow and work like crazy while I'm in school.


OK, can you cash flow the school and your life? If you work like crazy and go this fall. And have a relationship with my daughter, maybe I don't I don't think I'm not sure how long is the school?


It's two, four years. And how old is your daughter? She's three. Oh. Yeah. I have the initial cost is going to be like eleven thousand dollars at the beginning of the first semester, but it goes down after that because I have to buy a 7000 dollar kit and things like that. So that's why the initial cost is going to be more than what it will cost for the rest of the program.


OK, so your concern is the only way you can cash flow. It is a lot of hours of work in addition.


Yes. And I'll have to quit my current job because if you wait if you wait a year, what happens?


What changes? You're going to have just a pile of cash you could live on and you wouldn't have to be gone so much working.


Yes. I'm just scared that I'll lose some momentum because I've been going and I've been believing in myself enough to get through. I'm just scared to quit.


I don't think you're going to quit. Now, you sound motivated. You sound very, very focused on not only doing something for yourself, Britney, but also for your daughter.


How long do you want? I can hear it in your voice, the passion. Do you have a support network around you to help you with your daughter? Yes, I do. OK, a great one says good. My parents are here and I have a really supportive boyfriend that believes in my dreams as well. Mm hmm.


Mm hmm. OK, so you're going to quit your full time job and you're going to dental hygienist in the fall and you're going to work a part time job to pay bills while you're going to school, right? Yes. Doing what? And what are the hours?


And I don't know, I assume I've had a working retail somewhere like.


Yeah, just someone working nights and weekends or being a waitress or something.


OK, I think if you solve that part of the equation and have more detail so it could give you peace.


Let me give you an example. OK, let's pretend that it was me that one of the things you mentioned, but the new part time job was something where you made better money than those two things. And I'm making this up in my head. But also, you had control over your time. Maybe it was a little bit of a small business idea. Maybe you were. What do you do now?


I'm an administrative assistant for an accounting firm. Perfect.


Let's pretend that you were a an off site. And let's let's open a business called administrative called Virtual Administrative Assistant. And you are going to become an administrative assistant for three different small businesses that cannot afford a full time one year.


And you're a part time for all three of them. But it does not require you be answering the phone during a certain time of the day. It just requires that you get administrative assistant work done, which, by the way, you could do after the three year old went to bed.


OK, and you'd make more than you will and the dadgum retail. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm just making this up.


But but what my point is, is if you had something like that mapped out that you believed was real and you start working towards that, I think a lot of your worry and stress about abandoning your child, which is where the tears are coming from, is going to go away. Yeah, but if you have to work 40 hours a week at retail just to barely scrape by because you're not making any money and your schedule is at their beck and call, they own you, then you are going to have a real stress point with the baby, right?


Right. Oh, yeah. And so let's just take that off the table. Either design something where you control your time and you make more money as your work through gig. Hmm.


Or you wait a year. OK, because you're not going to quit. Hmm? Britney, what baby step are you on right now? I'm I'm very sorry.


Three or four thousand dollars. OK. OK, you are on three, OK? No, I don't think even if you delay it a year, I don't think you're going to give up. I really don't. I think, you know, what I would ask you to do, though, is to really search your heart and see is the dental hygienist, is that the thing you're absolutely passionate about? Yeah, because you're going to be making too many sacrifices for something that's a maybe.


So I think in that period of time, you can be, as my grandmother would say, prayerful and careful to get certain about what it is you want to do and then begin to make the sacrifices necessary so you can get there.


Let me tell you what I know about. People, in your situation, I've worked with single moms for 30 years, and they they never think not not never, but they work so hard at work, so many jobs just to try to get by.


And they never think they're doing as good a job as they are.


Mm hmm. Mm hmm. And lady, you're a warrior and you don't even know it. And you're doing so much better as a mom and as a woman than you think you are, because you've you've been you've just been a raw nerve for so long that you forget how good you are. And a man I tell you another thing I got is I got a whole building full of millennials and a whole bunch of them were raised by single moms. And they all stand up and salute their warrior mom, including Chris Hogan.


Yeah. Without a shadow of a doubt. You know, it's one of those things where let me be the first to tell you, Britney, if you hadn't heard it, you're doing a good job. Hey, man, you are doing a good job and keep being that role model for your daughter, because I'm going to tell you what the what you deposit in that little girl right now are the things that will begin to amplify and replay in her head and in her heart.


And that's the stuff that she'll begin to believe about herself and more importantly, about the mom that raised her. So keep up the good work, keep your priorities in order, and keep people around you that believe in you and remove those that don't hadn't thought about.


But you and Christy, right?


Hmm. Yeah. Both warrior. Both better raised by warrior women. Yep, without a doubt. I mean, Kristy's mom run a bakery. Yep.


And your mom raising two boys working as a nurse. Yeah.


No, it's just I mean it is, it's a feat. Mm. And and it goes unsung and it's not anything you sign anybody up for. No I don't think it's not, it's not the way to go. It's not like something to aspire to. But, but when you're there, the way those ladies rise to those occasions and fight their way through. That's exactly right. Pretty stinking amazing. Very well done. You're going to be OK either way, I think, if you design a better job.


That pays more and you control your time more like something like I outlined. You're going to get a lot more peace and you're going to go on and go in the fall. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Picture your life with no credit card debt. No medical debt, no student loans, no car payments. Can you even breathe that in?


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And all of that, of course, is off the reset event that we did last night with Chris Hogan, Craig Groeschel, Rachel Cruze. And you can still watch that. It'll be up for a few more hours. It was live last night, 240000 people registered to watch it last night. It was the number two thing on YouTube in the world.


That's mind boggling. I mean, that is absolutely fantastic that you have that many people plugging and getting this kind of information to kick off this year the right way. And what we're not going to do is sit around and wait on someone to save the day. As I've been telling people for years, let's get your own cape. And when you have a system that can help you like Ramsey, plus that is part of the process.


And there's a cape shortage in Washington, D.C.. Yeah, here. I'll give you six hundred dollars.


Did that change your life if 600 dollars changed your life? Let me help you with this. Your life sucks. It didn't change your life. Even if you're unemployed, you're having trouble making ends meet. You're struggling 600 doesn't. I mean, all it does is just give you a half a second a breathing room and you're right back in the soup. And then they walk around strutting around up there, acting like they did something. They didn't do anything except run this nation further into debt.




Unbelievable. All for the political aspect of I did something for you. So you need me.


We don't need you of either party. We don't need you. We don't have to have you. So you got to get yourself in that kind of position where that kind of attitude is possible. If you're sitting around waiting on the government to fix your life, your life is always going to suck. Eli is with us in Chicago. Hi, Eli. Welcome to The Dave Ramsey Show.


Hey, Dave. How are you and Chris doing? Great, man. How can we help, man? You know what? I hope you guys have more than a minute to talk because I got a bone to pick with you, too. I'm in a mess because I. I followed your baby steps. Like you said, I was able to buy my house cash and then I sold some of my real estate properties. I have five hundred thousand dollars now in cash and I don't know what to do with it.


And this is all you and Chris is small. Yeah. I hate it when this happens.


I apologize. I apologize.


And by the way, right off the bat, I want to say I watched your show last night. It was phenomenal. I love when you take on your kids.


Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right. So do you have any rentals left? Do you have any debt left at all?


So. So, no, I'm thirty seven years old and I'm going to get a pension with the city. I work with the city here in Chicago. Like I said, my house is worth about four hundred thousand. I paid it off in cash. I have five hundred thousand dollars. I'm trying to figure out if I'm why did you sell the rent.


And so, so in Chicago, I just I, I'm so busy with my job. My dad passed away recently, so I've been helping my mom out a lot. So I didn't want to overwhelm myself. So so I just so happened. So I saved up all that cash that I had bought a house for my wife and I. And then anything I had overlooked a real estate like I have it sitting, but I don't have anything saved for retirement.


Those were supposed to be my retirement, the building. So now I'm trying to see if I'm I'm way ahead or at thirty seven years old or have gained a little bit because I want your home.


You either are or you're almost a millionaire. Yes.


So OK, so you're ahead. You're a thirty seven year old everyday millionaire.


OK, so the question is if you don't want to buy more real estate because it's too much hassle, because you have so many things going on.


Right. Is that right?


OK, so then I only do two things with money, Eli. And so I, and I don't ever recommend I don't tell people to do stuff I'm not willing to do. So I don't get fancy with it.


One of the things I discovered when I first started talking to rich people after I went broke thirty years ago was the stuff they do is they put money in things they understand and they are not concerned about you being impressed with their sophistication. They put money and stuff they know something about. That's right. And I don't.


And they're most of their you know, most of these guys that have anywhere from one million to a twenty dollars million net worth, they are not fancy. No. With their investing, it's very pretty straightforward. And we found that again when we surveyed all these millionaires and the one to five million dollar range in particular. So what I'm going to tell you is mutual funds, since you don't want to real say I only do mutual funds in real estate, that's all I do.


And so if I woke up and I was in your shoes and right now I didn't want to screw with real estate, I just need to get some money working for me. I'd put it in mutual funds across the four types we talk about, without a doubt.


And I'm proud of you for making the sacrifice to be able to free up to be able to help your mom. I'm sorry to hear about your dad passing. Yeah, but you're right. When you get when you make your priorities, you make decisions, you make sacrifices to match them. And that's what you've done. And so, my friend, I'm going to tell you something. Don't overthink this. Get connected with the smart Vesterbro at 37 years old.


You are an everyday millionaire. Let's grow this money. Be intentional about what you're doing. But here's the thing you're going to have to do. Here's the word that's going to be the difference between if you become a multimillionaire or not, and that is playing defense. You've got to be smart and go cash only. And if you want to save up and buy a truck, do you want a boat? Well, don't buy a boat, but just be smart.


Be intentional. But don't don't don't go backward for debt for any reason at all. And you're going to be on a great path.


If you take 500 and it's invested in mutual funds and they make 10 to 12 percent, it's roughly going to double every seven years. You're thirty seven at forty four. It'll be a million. Now at 51, it'll be two million. At 58, it'll be four million. I think you're going to be OK. He's going to be OK if that's all you do. That's what I mean by not fancy. Right. You're not constantly screwing with it.


You're not going to know what's out of it. I'm saying go. There's a problem if you just put it in there and set it and forget it. Leave it alone. Look at it.


You watch it, obviously. But I'm saying you don't have to constantly be like every day fretting over where where there's mutual fund. Isn't all that ended up on what if it does what the if it does what the market has done over its history. Right. That's roughly what's going to happen is every seven years or so it's going to double.


And that's if you don't add anything to it. Right. And if you don't take anything out.


That's right. And that's what I was saying about not doing stupid and staying allergic to debt, because the thing we know about debt is that it's needy and greedy. Right. It's needy.


And he's away from that. He's all he's just don't go backwards. He's done just once. Don't sneak up on up on you to sneak up on.


I was like a good deal. It ain't. Yeah.


Just and you know, when that happens is when I was addressing earlier for folks there's something, there's this allure that if it's not complicated or uber sophisticated, it must not be good.




Like, like we think the rich really do no secrets we don't know or something and they really don't know. All they did was what you already know, they just did it a lot boring and they do it consistently.


That consistency. Yeah. Craig was talking about consistency last night. Yeah. Oh he did. Oh, listen, if you've not watched the reset talk, get over there and watch it before they pull it. They've told the story of the pigs. You got to hear it at Craig Herschelle did a great job as well, man. Well, and then there's Hogan and Rachel Cruise and we have this all star lineup. Yeah. Love it. Love it.


That puts us our The Dave Ramsey Show in the books. Thanks to James Childs, our publisher, Madison, filling in for Kelly today. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. This is James Childs, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. You can listen to Dave Rachel Cruz, Chris Hogan or the rest of the Ramsey network anywhere with the Ramsey network app on your smartphone. Catch all of our full shows, browse by topic or send clips to your friends at the App Store and download the Ramsey network app today.


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Hey, it's James, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. This episode is over, but check the episode notes for links to products and services you've heard about during this episode. Thanks for listening.