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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from a car rental studio. This is the Dave Ramsey Show where America hangs up. Have a conversation about your life. We talk about you calling the work that you were created to do, we talk about your mental emotional health and your relationships, we talk about it all.


It is life because it's real and it's right there in front of you. And you've got two options. Either participate or you shrink back and sit on the sidelines. I'm Ken Coleman, host of the Ken Coleman Show, which is a part of the Ramsey Solutions Network. I am a Ramsey personality co-host, a show on a regular basis with Dave.


And I'm joined by my colleague John Delaney, host of the Dr. John Deloney show on the Ramsey Solutions Network. And he is, of course, a range of personality and a frequent co-host of the show. So if you are new to the Dave Ramsey Show and thus new to us, John, and I just tell you that we're excited to be together now. Just a quick intro here on what I do and what John does. I'm focused on calling career your work.


Work that matters. Simply put, I believe that you were created to fill a unique role in your work through your work. That means you are tremendously needed. But then, John, it also means that you got to do it because, see, purposeful work, is it about us? It's not about money and notoriety and fame and power.


It's about the contribution that we were created to make. And so our purpose is actually not about us.


It's about others. It's always about others. And so we've got this weird view of work, John, here at Ramsey Solutions.


Most of the world thinks that you work to live to get a paycheck, to be able to pay the bills and was a little left over to make some memories. Right. But we believe that we were created to work. Now, we're not talking about created to be a workaholic. It put all of your identity in your work. That's not what we're saying.


Right. We are saying that you were created to contribute to this world right through the talent. You have what you do best through passion, which is the actual love of the work. Those of you love to work with your hands and create something that's a gift to the world and then to create a result from that work that matters to you because you see the direct contribution.


So that's what we think. So that's what I focus on in the John. You know, you focus on the mental the emotional health relationships, because if you look at purpose, I think it's two buckets and you and I cover both of them. Right. One is I've got a purpose to be who I'm supposed to be in my relationships and also in my work. You cover the relationships and the human aspect. Talk a little bit about your philosophy and your methodology.


I think.


I mean, you nailed it. You can't go through life alone, you know, and you and I have we've grown up in an ethos that is this is all about you figured out yourself, do it yourself, accomplish yourself and your happiness and your joy in your soul and your completion exist out there. Right. If you can just go achieve it, it'll you'll sleep well. Right. And if you can do it by yourself, you should do it by yourself.


You don't need other people, don't know other people. And can those two things just from a biochemistry perspective is wrong? Yeah, it's just deceitful. Right. We were made to work hard and made to connect.


We were made to connect big time. And without those two things, every alarm system we has goes off every inflammation response which goes off and we find ourself spinning and achieving and numbing.


And look around, man, we're seeing 50 or 100 years of go achieve your way to it, distract your way through it. And then here we are it.


So, John, you also know this, that when you're not happy in your work life and you don't see that connection to what am I supposed to contribute to this world that can begin to affect all of your relationships? That's everything.


That's where it's so and vice versa when you're not when me and my wife aren't whole at home. Yes, I have not been a good parent at home.


You can't be all you're supposed to be in the absolutely not. Right. It works together. It does. And so John and I work together. We've done we've done a couple of Ken Coleman shows where I'll bring John in and we'll take. Hey, all right. You've got some toxic workplace stuff going on. And hello, I'm talking to Four Corners of the World. So today we're going to take money questions, but we're also going to take your questions about relationships in your home or in in the workplace.


You've got a toxic leader, John, and I love to tag team those, OK, because there's there's a dual response there. So if you're just miserable at work, miserable at home, this is your show. And I'm going to say this. You know Zach Bennett sitting in for Kelly Daniel today. He'll change your name. Yeah, we'll change the location for where you're calling. I want, John, for people to feel safe today to go.


You know what? I'm a phone call away from getting some clarity on what I need to do to get out of the rut, the hole that I'm in there, one phone call away. That's right.


And one step further. We're in a moment in history where everybody is on edge.


Everybody. Oh, yeah. And triggered. Just on edge. Right. And here's the thing. I talked about it on my show this morning, and I'll continue to beat this drum when you are on edge. This is not myth. This is not fantasy. When you are on edge, when you feel like you are not safe, someone's taking something from you.


Your amygdala literally turns off your frontal lobe because it doesn't want you sitting at the in the cave going. Is that a nice tiger, a sweet tiger? It just wants you to run, man. I just want you to fight. And so if you woke up this morning angry, if you woke up this morning in a state of what is happening for my family, what is happening for my country. What does that.


Yeah, call us. Can I even pursue my dream even though we got a different president in and we got a different what is that going to affect my purpose in life? Can I even. And it's like, hey, let's take a deep into my family. Call me, tell you something else. I want to I want to put the call out for those of you who are hurting from being out of work for a long time.


Let's not forget that when covid-19 hit, it, wrecked it wrecked people's lives. Sideway John sent me something this weekend. I have a show I've been told James this. So, James, I'm having coffee Saturday morning and sitting there and a text pops up from Dr. John Deloney. I'm like, oh, and this is what he sent me. He was doing some research. And there's a guy by the name of Andrew Oswald. I'm just good to you up on this.


Yeah. Who is an economist at the University of Work in the U.K. and basically says that no other circumstance produces a larger decline in mental health. And well-being then being involuntarily so laid off, furloughed out of work, so then being nothing is producing a larger decline in mental health and wellbeing than being involuntarily out of work for six months or more. Listen to this, John. This blew me away. It is the worst thing that can happen, he says, equivalent to the death of a spouse and a this is a direct quote, a kind of bereavement in its own right.


So, John, you and I do combined forces on this.


This is a seriously traumatic event. It is. You're out of work. Yes. We're in work that you hate. Right. Or when you are working for somebody else's pleasure, you're not working to help somebody. Right? You you're working for somebody else's flourishing. Right. You know, you and I, we've talked about this privately.


When our friend Mike rose through the summer and he mentioned something that I'd never thought of, that when we told 30 million Americans, you all are essential, we told 300 other million Americans, you know what, you'll just go, that's we don't need you.


We'll just send you a check. Yes. And when you read that research, we basically told everybody, listen, you'll have less value. Let's just go home.


Will your money. We don't need you in that set off a chemical storm in our hearts and minds that have made us depressed, not to mention four or five decades of messaging that says if you don't go to college, you're second class citizen. All the cities you go into, the trades, you're a loser, you're a loser. So here's the deal. Triple eight eight two five five two two five. Remember a triple eight eight to five five two two five phone lines are open.


John and I are coming right back and we're going to help you. This is the Dave Ramsey Show.


The. Free at last, it was one of the best decisions of my life. That's what Neil Hume said about using time-Share exit team to get out of his timeshare after the resort refused to let him out. Listen, I've said it before. If you've tried selling your timeshare and can't if the resort refuses to take it back, call time share exit team. The people I trust call eight four four nine nine nine exit or time-Share exit team dot com.


Welcome back, America. This is the Dave Ramsey Show, Ken Coleman and Dr. John Deloney taking you through this hour. And we are the Ramsey personalities that focus on calling career work that matters and mental emotional relationship health. And John, we put the word out in the first segment and boy, oh, boy, we rang the bell. People need some help. So, hey, we're really excited now. We're still going to take your money calls.


It was I was telling Jeremy Breeland, who leads all of the. I said, yeah, Dylan and our are host of The Dave Ramsey Show. First hour here. And we're going to take some money questions. I don't know how good the answers are going to be, but let's rock, man. Sell the truck. Yes. Worst case scenario, sell it can never go wrong with.


You are about to call with a question like, hey, man, I got this truck. We're just going to sell it. Yeah, it's pretty much the extent of our knowledge.


We the phone lines open, please, because we're going to tell you to sell the truck. That's right. All right. Good stuff. All right. Eight to five, 525 excuse me. Five to five. I skipped it. Two eight eight two five five two two five. Phone lines are open. And we're going to start it off with Patty, who's joining us in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Patty, how can we help?


Hi. Hi. Thank you. Good to talk with you, gentlemen. Good to talk to you. I am a work for a small company. It's a landscaping construction company. And the business manager, office manager, you know everything. And I'm in a position where the owner really relies on me to make some pretty significant financial decisions and operational decisions. He's a very he's very good at his craft, not very good at his business. And I'm really I'm really starting to resent that.


I'm put in that position. I can do it. I have the training to do it. But I don't I don't think he really understands the importance of what he's asking me to do. And I'm feeling resentful and I'm feeling like I'm really getting tired of it. Oh, all right.


So I'll let John jump in on the feelings of resentment. But I do want to know a little bit of background on this.


Have you talked to him about this, to say, hey, you're asking me to do some pretty heavy duty stuff and I just want to make sure you understand that what you're asking me to do makes you really, really hands off. And this is what I'm feeling about this. Have you had that conversation with him?


I've had the conversation that I'm asking him to really understand that he's asking me to make some pretty significant decisions. And I've not delved into the feelings part of it just yet.


So you're beneath your question is a valid question. And yes.


Why it seems like I'm just listening to you. Seems like this guy trust you a lot. Seems like he really cares about you and has said, man, here's the keys to the kingdom. There's something about you that doesn't sit that sit well with you. Is it a is he not compensating you enough? Is it because I don't want to run a business? I don't mind run the books. What's what's the value question. What's a valid concern here?


He definitely does trust me. And I do appreciate that. OK, I know that he cares for me. Yes, because sometimes frequently when I give him an answer or suggestion that he doesn't want to hear, like I want to buy this very expensive item, what do you think? And I say, I think that we do not have the money for it. And this is why. And any kind of acts like a little boy whose mom just told him no.


And that's getting old. Yeah, yeah, yeah.


So I got a quick question. Let me jump in. Is there also a sense of pressure that you feel he's putting you under? He's asking because you do. You've touched on it twice. And I feel like maybe you've got some fear there. Like this guy's asking me to make some huge decisions and it's not my company. I don't like feeling that way. Is that also going on?


I don't have a whole lot of feeling that I'm I'm pretty sure I won't get myself in trouble. I know. Want to say.


All right, but he's he loves to when he asked you to do something and it works, he loves taking credit for those moments. But if he asked you to buy something you all can afford and you tell him no, he does a temper tantrum, or if you buy it and you look squeezed at the end of the month, he blames you for being inept right now.


It doesn't really blame me, but there's a lot of there's a lot of unsaid words and a lot of energy floating around in the office that I would rather not have floating around. There you go.


So whenever I hear the word resentment in a relationship, resentment is a product of comparison. I'm doing more than you. I'm carrying more than you. It happens a lot in marriages. I do the dishes. I do this. I take care of the baby. And all you do is and what I'll tell you is this. Once you get to resentment, resentment is the death. It is the death trajectory of any relationship in the world. And so what I'll tell you is resentments often a choice.


And it's you have a lot of control over this. It could be your choices. I don't want this life. I don't want this job. I don't want this pressure. I'm going to let them know in a controlled planned conversation, not in a fight. Hey, I'm just cut. I'm uncomfortable now. I don't want to do this. If you're going to keep asking me to run your business, I don't want to be a CEO.


I just want to run books.


And I promise you, you're going to find somebody in town that would love to have an ethical, great bookkeeper, that that person will exist or you sit down and say, I'm going to stop resenting him. He trusts me and loves me. He's immature.


And you have to line up boss after boss in America under that label, right?




I'm going to choose to not be resentful because I'm poisoning myself, hoping he's going to. That's right.


Because he's probably not going to change. And I think that, Patty, what you need understand is, is you have yet to share with him your real emotions. And I think because you guys have such a great relationship, because he trusts you so much, that if you handle this in the right posture, just say, hey, can I tell you what's been going on behind the scenes? You asked me to guard this company. I feel like I'm the chief guardian and I love it and I'm not going to blow it or screw up.


But when I do what you actually want me to do on your best interests and you kind of get mad and kind of create this tension between us, it puts me in a really resentful mood because I'm actually doing the thing for you that you want me to do and I actually love to do. And I'm the most fierce protector of you in this company. Do you understand how that makes me feel? I think you owe him that conversation because I think if he hears it in the spirit of humility to go, oh, wow, Patty really does have my back.


And I am acting like a like a seven year old boy who had a fire truck.


Take it away. Oh, OK. What we get to see right there, Patty, is you get to see, oh, OK. He's willing to try.


And that will also help with what John say and where you've got to expect it and deflect it and decide I'm not going to be resentful. And that goes to an employee that goes to a spouse. And here's the thing. And I said, I'm going to say it again. Don't wait until he comes in and says, I want to buy all new mowers. We're buying all new mowers. And that be the moment you snap and you say, I can't we can't afford that.


He says, I'll figure it out and then you blow up on him. You got to say, hey, on Friday at noon, I want to order and lunch. I want to talk about the state of the company. Let's plan on. Won't tell you some things have been on my heart mind. Give him some preparation for it. And same as you don't yell at your spouse. You know, when the dishes aren't done, you figure it out that night, everybody be mature.


And then that weekend you say, hey, we need to talk.


Here's the good news. The silver lining for this, Patty and John, I heard this. It doesn't sound like he's overruling her. Just sounds like he gets a little pouty and he gets upset because she he said she said he couldn't have his toy. So the fact that he's not overruling you and running the business in the ground, we heard no evidence of that. It's not happening. And he's not unethical. He's not.


So she's got to go, OK, I've just got to be OK that he's immature on this and I'm not going to be able to make those changes for him. He's going to have to do that by being honest with him and sharing this with him in a safe way. Not a complaining, attacking, hospitable, hospitable way a. When you say that, then we got a chance. But even if he doesn't fully ever turn the corner, then she got a chance to make a choice to make.


That's what I mean by expect it and deflect it, right? Oh, boy.


He wants this brand new shiny thing and we just can't afford Wamwere.


And then he's going to gripe about a little bit. But what's his pattern? Oh, he kind of doesn't talk to you for two days and then he really needs me. And all of a sudden he gets an infusion of good attitude and we're going to be OK. And that's where, John, you experience this more on your show. But difficult people exist and sometimes we're the difficult people and we can't just decide to quit because sometimes the people we have to work with can sometimes step on our toes or be obnoxious or obtrusive, whatever.


We got to learn how to be big boys and pick girls. I think we all have those moments, of course, when I'm the big kid. And then there's the time. I'm the whiny brat course in all of us have that.


Yeah. And if I can recognize. Yeah. I'm entering into whiny brat season I you shut up. All right, look what we got coming up next segment. All Mary's on the line and she's got a question about navigating political conflicts in the family. Well, that doesn't affect anybody else, but we'll still try to help. I have a member of my family. We're diving into that stuff next. This is good radio. This is The Dave Ramsey Show.


Ken Coleman and Dr. John Boloney with you on The Dave Ramsey Show, eight eight two five five two two five eight eight two five five two two five. Taking your calls about your life and your money and also what John and I specialize on.


Are you just sick and tired of your job? Monday mornings are nothing more than sheer misery for you.


As soon as you get the car to head to work, you're struggling emotionally, struggling with mental health relationship issues in your life or at the office. John and I are going to take those calls us where we specialize. Triple eight, 8255, two to five. All right, here we go. I teased it. Mary's calling in from St. Louis. Got some some political conflicts and stress in the family. Mary, tell us about it.


Hi, Dr. Dinkin. So grateful for you guys, Dr. Dave. And giving us tons of great advice about how to handle conflict stemming from political tensions. It's been so helpful.


I'm not I'm not super great with it, as you can see. Right. So I'm John and I fight about politics every day in the office. That's what I tell you. That's right.


Well, it's been better than nothing. Well, I appreciate your kind kind person. Thank you. Thanks.


So yesterday, Dave made a funny comment about the advice being great, assuming the other person that you're dealing with wasn't mentally ill. But what is that person does have a history of mental illness and emotional problems and boundary issues. Can you please throw out some healthy ways and exit strategies to end politically divisive interrogation? And yes, for me, it has been interrogation. And could you please share some handy phrases that could excuse yourself from even going there? I want to live out Proverbs 51, which says A gentle landseer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.


And that's such a great question. There's a couple of things globally here. One is, yeah, I actually talked to somebody today, Dave and I. Yesterday were the call Mary's referring to is Dave and I yesterday talked about an Instagram post. I don't watch the news. Can you know this? You'll give me a hard time back there that I'm more interested in local stuff and what's in people's hearts and minds and not on TV. And I posted something with the word unity in it.


And you would have thought, man, I was the second. It was wild stuff. I learned all about myself. I learned more about myself from the Internets comment. Yes.


And Dave and I were talking about on the air, he said, man, I didn't know you were a liberal. I had to find it on Instagram. And I said, Dave, I told you I was a liberal. In my interview. We were laughing and carrying on being silly and we got to laugh and about half. So if people have mental illness, they're not going to hear you. And you know what? I shouldn't be laughing about that, because there's folks like Mary, there's folks like me.


There's folks like millions of people. There's got people with that actually struggling with mental health issues. It's not something to make fun of. Dave and I, we're having a good time. But I think you're right, Mary. And I think you treat this the same as you treat any hard conversation with somebody who believes something different than you, which is compassion. And you just decide to not go to war.


If somebody wants to interrogate you, you do have permission, whether they have mental health issues, whether they have any sort of of challenges with communication, you have a right to be safe and you have a right to your boundaries.


And I often will tell folks mental health responses, mental health challenges are context, not an excuse.


Yeah, just because someone has a mental health issue does not give them permission to treat you poorly, to interrogate you, to beat you up, to be ugly to you or anything like that. And so when somebody does and I've got this in my family, when somebody comes at you with can you believe I will stop and say, hey, we're not talking politics, you're not going to do that today? I'm not going to have this conversation. I do, though.


I want to hear about how little Susie's is doing on how your job is going or let's just hug.


We're not going to do it. I'm silly about it in my house because I'll say, hey, we're just going to hug it out. But I, I don't engage with conversations with people who are not interested in listening to me.


Yeah, right. And that's a it's a way I navigate it. That's why I like talking with you can because you hear different conversations. I hear different conversations in the thing I like about you, Ken, is that nobody knows where we're ever gonna land on anything.


And that makes my heart feel good. Yeah. How do you approach that conversation? Well, I think very similar to what you're saying.


I think that, you know, she's well, she's thinking how do I say it in a very kind, gentle way, you know, instead of the hard, you know, Heisman Trophy stance, you know, stop, we're not doing that because that can also put you in a tough situation. And I think it's a I think it's a preemptive strike. I think in her situation, it's a sit down and go, hey, I love you deeply.


And I know you like to talk about this stuff, but I actually don't like to talk about it because not because I disagree with you. I think that you're wrong. It just makes me uncomfortable. And I would just prefer that we don't do it. So I just want you to know ahead of time it's not anything that you've done. It's not you. It's me. I'm just thankful I'm doing this and other areas of my life. And it just it just it's just nobody's ever going to see Odai.


And neither one of us are going to solve actually any major national problems or local actual policy problems by fighting amongst ourselves. So I just think for our relationship and this is me, my standard, not yours, I don't want you to feel bad about talking about you can talk about it around me. And I'm not going to interject and I'm not going to debate you. But if you don't mind, I just want to create a thing where we're just gonna talk about it.


And I think I'd be preemptive there so that we put a boundary up before it happens in the moment for Thanksgiving and for Christmas.


We had people come for Christmas and actually sent an email out and said, here's the topics we're not going to discuss. Yeah, that's a preemptive strutted out there like that. And we had a great time. And a couple of times it's a kind of ekin there.


There were some hands put up like doing that. Yeah, because I love you.


And if we can't be civil about it, I'm not. Well, you're not. Whatever the consequence, let's just don't do it.


Yeah. And I think, you know, I don't think I've ever talked about this on the show.


So this is this is kind of fun. And I think what I want the audience to know is that I used to be in politics full time. What, you knew this? No. You didn't know this? No.


Yeah, I worked. I worked on a congressional race at the age of 19.


My life just got so much 1994. And then I was working for the governor of Virginia at the age of 22. OK, so I was a special assistant to Governor Jim Gilmore. And so I there was a season of my life where I thought I was called. Hmm, to politics. I had a career in calling crisis in my early 30s because I lost the taste for it. Gosh, I was irritated with both sides of the aisle.


So don't anybody doing a bunch of guest workers and emails, which, by the way, I don't read any emails that are negative.


So if I say something right now that somehow offend you, you can email. I'm never going to read it. So spare yours.


I will send it to me. You enjoy that kind of stuff? Yeah, but here's what I found out. I lost the fire in the belly.


I lost the passion for the work and the results of the mission.


That career crisis is now what informs all the work that I do. Right. So you didn't know any of that. But here's my point. Having worked in politics and being a guy who though I no longer work in it and I don't want to work in it and by the way, I don't want to return to it either. So let's going to make that announcement.


I have learned of a really clear lesson that I think would help us all when it comes to political talk and coworkers and family and friends. I have never one time, John, in a debate with a family member, a friend or coworker. I have never one time change their mind. You did. You didn't you didn't know argue someone into submission? No, never once that at the end of a political debate, even if it was not nasty and I don't really have nasty ones.


All right. But never one time if I had a political discussion with somebody who's on the opposite end of the spectrum or completely on the other side of an issue and not one time are they, what can I tell you what? I made my points and I really, really believe my points. But after you made your points, I got to tell you, I see it exactly the way you see it.


Thank you, Ken, for enlightening me and setting me on the right path. That never happened for you zero times.


So therefore, I've never I've never Twitter response or Facebook responded somebody to change my mind. Yeah, but I will tell you this at my house, I've had people spend the night at my house that would have made Bernie Sanders go, whoa, that's pretty far over there.


Yeah. And I've had people spend the night at my house that Trump would have been like, oh, a little bit too far to the right for me.


Let's all bring it back a little bit. Yeah, everyone's welcome at my table. Yeah. And we're going to serve food together and we're going to talk and we're going to figure some of this out.


Somebody is an astute listener. One of the Dave Ramsey Show one time wrote in and said.


I get the sense that you and Dave think differently on some things, and we talked about it and I said, yup, we have very, very matching boundaries. I mean, values. We want to help people.


We love people. We care about our faith. We care about our families. We have different beliefs. And that's beautiful because our values are together. And Dave wants to help somebody and sometimes he wants to help them by letting them have it.


And I want to I want to help them by hugging them of our beliefs are going to change. And if I do the hard work of reading and learning and listening, my beliefs are going to change all over my lifetime. And I hope they do. But my values are going to be reviewed and anchored in. And I think if we did this value belief work across the country, you'd see a connection happen from the floor up. And let me remind everybody of something I say on the Ken Coleman show all the time, the one thing that every human being on the planet can unify around.


And there might be more than one thing for sure. Well, I'm going to use it. You know, we can be unified around that. We all want to make a difference in this world. We want to make a difference. Let's be about this is the new rich. This is the Dave Ramsey Show on Ken Coleman, joined by my colleague, Dr. John Deloney, taking your calls, triple eight, eight to five to five. Before we go back to the phones.


Let's let's take a pause here and remember that 20/20 was really wacky and your 20/20 taxes may be a bit more complicated because of it.


So if you drew unemployment at any point this year, keep in mind you may have to pay taxes on it this year. Unemployment checks are taxable income. Another big thing to keep in mind is remote working. If you left your resident state to work remotely from another state, you may have to pay state taxes to two states. So the point is a lot changed and it may have changed your taxes. So if you're unsure of 20/20, you made your taxes different.


Take our tax quiz. This will give you some peace of mind so you know what you're facing and then what you need to do. Text the phrase tax quiz. So those two words, no spaces, tax quiz, text out to three three, seven, eight, nine to find out what your tax situation really looks like. Tax quiz, text that phrase with no space to three three seven eight nine eight eight two five five two two five is the number.


Let's go to Knoxville, Tennessee, where Jack joins us. Jack.


How can we help? Yeah, I was calling today to ask you all what you know about the situation I'm in. So I've got a job. Well, I've got three jobs, actually, but I really my full time job, I work for the United States government and I really love what I do, but I don't hate the people I work with. But they make my job miserable.


Oh, my. What do you do, ma'am?


Oh, I work for the United States Geological Survey and just major rivers and creeks and lakes and they manage the water, so.


Sounds like you're out of the office a good bit. Yes or no? Yes. Oh, yeah, so tell me how your coworkers are making you miserable. I want to know the specifics. Well, I guess every morning when you go into work, you go into the office, get your work through, you know, your stuff ready to go after the day, not oh. So there's only three of us that work marvelously and two other guys.


And one of them is kind of the head guy and he's like, oh, what are you going to get done today and make your job put so much on you that there's no way that you can get it done. And eight to ten hours. I mean, I almost I can't maybe get a little touch of burnout. And it may be because. A little more detail. Is he penalizing you when he gives you that much work to do?


Are you having to work longer than eight to 10 hours a day to get it done? Or are you going home at normal time and you're not getting it done and he's busting your chops about it?


What's going on? I'm I'm just working longer than eight to 10 hours, whatever it takes. This job done then going home and spending the rest time with my family. Well, you get to other jobs. Yeah. So, yeah. So you love the work. You love the work itself. And you've got it. I love what I do. Yeah. Yeah. So have you talked to this leader to say, hey, the stuff you're piling on me, I can't get it all done in a day.


And are you aware that I'm working this many hours but I'm not getting overtime?


Oh, yeah, and it's got a lot well, this job comes first, you know what needs to be done. All right, so here's the thing. So the way I describe your situation, Jack, on the Ken Coleman show is you're doing the right thing in the wrong place. You've got an unhealthy leader. It's become a toxic work environment.


And there is little to no hope that that's going to change. You've had the conversation. He's kind of like tough go pound sand. And so now you resent the very existence of the guy. And we don't even need to dive in to whatever guy number two is doing that's making you so miserable. So the good news here is, you know what the work is that you love? And so now we've got to be a big boy and we got to go.


All right. Can I walk away from this thing right now? Am I that miserable? And if I can't put up with it any longer, can I walk away from it financially? If the answer's no, the answer is you can't put up with a little bit longer. You're tough guy. You could bite the stick. You can be the bigger man. But you need to start looking today. And the good news is, is, you know, the kind of work that you want to do.


So now, starting as soon as you hang up this phone call, you've got to start looking for that work somewhere else. And you go, OK, I know the kind of work I love. And this is an exercise, John, where again, you know, Jack can just sit down with the pencil and paper like I've got right here and go, OK, what are all the things I love about this job?


Oh, I love this, this, this, this and this. And and so we already know that he loves it, but we want to get real specific and those become the menu items, if you will, as you begin to look, you know, if you pull a recipe, you know, I love to cook kind of for fun. And I always love getting the recipe card, you know, getting out and what else in this? Well, that's what we're looking for.


What are the ingredients? To this job that he loves and now we're going to go look for that, and the good news is we can find that now we know what a toxic environment is like.


And so this is what a lot of people don't do in the research process for new jobs or different job or in the interview process. You have got to look for the signs that you're very acutely aware of. And so you ask the kind of question, what's it like here?


How do you handle workload? How do you handle feeB? You know, he knows now what he wants. He's got to match it up in the marketplace. And so that's the steps he needs to take guys working three jobs. This is going to eat him alive if he doesn't get out of there.


That's exactly right. And I'd love to see him. There is a market for guys who will work beyond eight to 10 hours because that's the right thing to do. And I'm going to get this job done because I'm a person of excellence and I'm a hard worker. That guy's going to find work. That's right.


And I'd love to see him have one job. Yeah. That he is getting paid. What he's worth is putting in hard work. He goes home tired and then he can spend the rest of that energy and focus on his family.


You could tell he loves them, loves and man, if we had more people that just want to cut out the nonsense and we just want to go to work, we're going to work our butts off and go home tired. And I want the drama. Let's just get it done, man.


Well, this this case, folks, listen in, Jack. Situation is the is half of the equation of why so many people are unhappy at work. Prie covid the number was. Sixty eight percent of Americans were unhappy. Their work, the number was eighty percent. Internationally, this is pre covered and there's two major reasons for that. Number one, you're not in your sweet spot, which I teach is where you're using your talent, what you do best to do work.


You love your passion to produce results that matter deeply to you that your mission. So people aren't in their sweet spot. Of course, you're going to you know, it becomes just this utilitarian function and slowly just beats the death out. It just beat you to death because you're like there's no meaning to this work for me.


But the other reason, John, is poor leadership like we see here.


Right. Here's a guy who should be looking at Jack going.


This dude, he's my rock star, is working long, crazy hours to get the job done that I've poured on top of him in the cold and in the cold. The heat. Yeah, being away from his family. He's working two other jobs. And this guy is just like, tough man. This is your priority as opposed to going, wait a second. We got work to do. We're a small team of three. How do I help Jack not actually begin to feel burned out.


Right. But this leader. So pathetic. Yeah, I mean, pathetic. And by the way, this this goes from poor leadership where you're not exhibiting the characteristics and you're not good at your job, too. Then it becomes it borderline abusive.


You go, OK, Ken, relax.


No, because you as a leader, as a boss, hold over top of people, maybe one of the most powerful. Extrinsic motivators there is, and that's the ability to fire them well and their livelihood, as we talked about earlier, abusive, it's also holding over them a a core psychological component of their wellness.


Yes. Their purpose in work. Yes. And their food on their family's plate and their role and the ability to provide and then the ability to contribute.


Yes. And leaders, stop. Stop this. I mean, get help. Goodness gracious. There's a reason why we've got the military leadership division here at Ramsey Solutions. The reason we do the Ottery Leadership Program, there are books that you can read.


You can actually build your leadership skill. You can be a zero on a scale of one to 10 and you can actually learn how to lead. But, John, this is a this is a massive problem around the world. Absolutely is. Poor leadership.


And we've got we're in a season now. We've got to have leaders stepping up all over the place from janitorial staffs to CEOs and everybody in between. We've got to start doing the things the right way. All right, folks, I can't believe it, but our Dell, we've got to go. We had too much fun. I want to thank our producer, James Charles Zachman, Bennett City for Kelly. Daniel today is our associate producer calls creator.


I want to thank my pal, Dr. John Delany. And we thank you, America. I'm Ken Coleman and this is The Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer and phone screener for The Dave Ramsey Show. If you would like to do your debt free scream live on the show, make sure you visit Dave Ramsey, dot com slash show and register. We would love for you to come to Nashville, tell Dave your story. Hey, if you've got questions about retirement investing and becoming an everyday millionaire, go bigger and broader with my man Chris Hogan on the Chris Hogan Show.


I am excited to be able to talk to you all week in and week out. We're going to focus on your calls and it's going to focus on building wealth investing and how to become an everyday millionaire. Subscribe to the Chris Hogan Show wherever you listen to podcast.


Hey, it's James, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. This episode is over, but check the episode notes for links to products and services you've heard about during this episode. Thanks for listening.