Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the car rental studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show where Ned is dumb. Cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I am Dave Ramsey, your host, Dr. John Deloney Ramsey personality as my co-host today here on the air, open phones as we talk about your life and your money.

The phone number is triple eight eight to five five two two five. That's triple eight eight two five five two two five.

Katherine is in Indianapolis. Hi, Katherine. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show.

Hi, guys, thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up in your world? I had a question for you guys. So my husband and I, we just welcomed our first child weeks ago.

Thank you. We're really excited about it. So we're starting to plan ahead for the future. We're currently working through the baby steps on four, five and six. Good. So we've considered starting up a 529 plan, but we've also talked through do we consider a money market mutual fund savings account? We don't want it to just sit somewhere for 18 years and earn no interest. But we also don't know that we want to lock it into just being able to be used for college.

Our question is, how do we decide between a 529 plan and all the other options or a little bit of both couple of them? Well, how do we determine how much to contribute to start with your limited on most 529?

So ten thousand dollars. And that's not making a decision.

You're not saying, oh, we're stuck if I don't go to college, I mean, ten thousand dollars is not gonna kill you. OK, if you put one hundred thousand dollars in there and then and you don't do anything else, then maybe you're making a decision. Higher education is an absolute now in the 529 is not actually an investment. It is actually how the real investment is treated for tax purposes.

So just like an IRA is not an investment, you put you can put a bank account, you know, inside of a savings account, inside of an IRA, a money market inside of an IRA or a mutual fund inside of an IRA.

So you choose the type of investment that goes in there. So what you want is a 529 in good growth stock, mutual funds. But the only difference is you could buy the mutual funds and the kid's name or you can buy the mutual funds and the kid's name in a 529. The only difference is they grow in the 529, 100 percent tax free. So when that ten thousand dollars turns into forty thousand dollars, that extra 30 that it made, by the time the kid gets to college, which is about what it'll do, is not taxable.

So you're saving on that scenario and that one investment, you're saving ten thousand dollars worth of taxes by putting it in a 529. So I would do the 529. You don't have to fully fund it, but whatever you want to put in there, I'd get one started. Sit down with one of our smart VESTER pros, quick smart investor at Dave Ramsey Dotcom. They'll show you how to do it. But what you're doing is you are selecting a 529 plan with one of the states, their state plans that allows you to invest in mutual funds.

And you picked the mutual funds and they don't move unless you move them.

That's the kind of 529 you're looking for, some of them automatically move the funds around as the kid gets older, some of them lock it in and it never can be moved. You don't want any of those. You want basically a mutual fund investment wrapped in the coat of a 529 for tax free growth. Does that make sense to you?

I think so. So you're saying really stick with the 529, get the mutual funds that focus on that. Don't focus on any other. Yeah, I would not do anything else this far out.

Not this day. Now, if you if you look up and you got one hundred fifty thousand dollars in there someday and you go, OK, I don't really want to put more than that in there until I get a track on the direction this kid's going to go, I'm just going to save some money in the kid's name for them to do other stuff with. That's called an Ottmar Uniform Transfer to Minors Act UTM, a which all that means is, is that people who are not 18 years old are not allowed to do contracts in America.

So you can't open a mutual fund, you can't open a bank account, you can't open a checking account. Your mom and dad or somebody else that's an adult has to open it in your name and they are the custodian. And so you're in charge of it until they're 18 or 21, depending on your state. And so that's how, for instance, back when my kids were say we were saving for our kids to go to college, there was no 529, there was no SS.

So we just open up mutual funds and our kids names. And I was the custodian. And if they were doing cocaine, they would have had a hard time finding the money even though it was technically theirs.

I would steal it, OK, because I'm I have to look into that. I'm not that kind of dad. Yes, I'm the dinosaur dad. So, yeah, that's the thing. And so then you get to do that. So, John, with your our audience maybe just joining us for the first time, our first time when you've been on the air with me with a Ph.D. in higher ed and you spent many, many years in higher ed, and this year has been the perfect storm for higher ed.

You know, it was to start with, we had the wake up call of the epic student loan crisis, which was kind of pointing out that some portions of higher ed over charging a wee bit. Right. And no kidding. And then now with this, they send kids home and are still trying to charge them the same amount and they're just doing it on their computer and a bicycle and going to computer classes a lot cheaper than you're charging me higher.

Ed's got a bit of a crisis going on.

And basically what it's done, though, is it's kind of shaken up and made people go, well, maybe I'm not saving for college like I would have. I don't want to trap this money because a kid might not go to college as college as we know. It might not be the same. That's right. And so we're going to see a difference in the savings patterns, I think because of this.

That's the most common question I get is the fear of locking up money for 18 years and the assumption that the government is not going to change their mind over 18 years, that that money will even still be there in eighteen years and more importantly, will college as we know it. Will it still exist in the way that we've come to know it in eighteen years?

Right. And especially at its current inflation rate, it's going to cost eight hundred and fifty thousand dollars. Right? Well, we even have enough. And so we all know that in eighteen years colleges are going to look different. And so yeah, that's the most common question. I guess I lock this money up or not. Yeah. And I think most people don't.

It's hard to have that money sitting in just your checking account. Right. And not spend it.

Yeah, well you do need to lock it up and you do need to put it in tax free growth.

The worst case scenario is higher ed completely turns on its head or your kid just says and you say, I'm this kid's not going to college and you pull the money out, you're just going to be taxed just as though it was in a regular mutual fund, right?

Yeah. And you're right. We have a penalty on it, but you're not going to lose all your money, right? It's not like if you don't go, you know, the account evaporates.

And is isn't it correct that that money can be used for any sort of educational endeavor? Right.

So technically, yeah. Yeah. So they want to go to tech school, maybe a diesel mechanic. Yeah. That works if you want to. And it actually can be used for private school. Right. For your kid in high school. Oh OK. I'm going to now. OK. And your siblings can use it. In fact any family member can use it.

Mom could go back to using your 529.

Right. So it can, it's not going to get stuck. OK, you're going to be OK and you do need to let it grow tax free and you do need to park it in such a way that you keep your own grimy hands off of it because we all have these temptations.

Right. Good question. Open phones at eight eight two five five two two five. You jump in, huh? Dave, I've heard you say kids don't get a vote. Is this true? At any age? We're looking into moving our family into a different continent in Africa for a volunteer and our teenagers are not on board. How do we approach this? Who? I'm going to come back to that one after the break, because we are about ten seconds out.

That's a big one. Yeah. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Your number one wealth building tool is your income for business owners. This comes as no surprise as you're used to putting in extra hours and watching your bottom line. That's why Christian Healthcare Ministries, or S.A.M., is a great option for those who are faith focused and budget conscious. S.A.M. is not health insurance. Rather, it's a health cost sharing program. It's not harder, but it is different to learn of.

Is it fit for you or your business? Visit S.H. Ministries. Duggie Budget. Dr. John Delany Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Kevin is on Instagram and says, I've heard you say before, kids don't get a vote. Is this true at any age? We're looking into moving our family to a different continent, a small village in Africa for a year of volunteer and mission work. And our teenagers are not on board. How do we approach this?

Well, first, I need to answer the question a little more carefully. Our portion of this set it up. Kids don't get a vote on. What that means is, is the parents are in charge. Right? It doesn't mean that I don't admit that my children have desires and feelings about things in some cases that are valid. But and I take those into consideration. But I make a decision that is best for the overall family and for that child.

I meet too many people where their children are in charge of their house and the inmates are running the freaking asylum. And so that's what that the kids don't get a vote comes from. It doesn't mean we don't take their feelings or their desires or their best interest into consideration.

And any major decision, we got to talk to him.

Right. And they're worth the conversation. Before we get to the answer to extrapolate on what you said, to continue that, understand that when you put your kids in charge, when they get to make decisions that taxes them and destroys a child, they don't have the wisdom or the strength to carry your family. Right. That's harmful to a kid. And not only is it not helpful, it's harmful to a kid to expect them to be the kid that decides are we go to church, what building we're going to, where are we eating?

Where are we going to live? What neighborhood that a kid can't it doesn't have doesn't.

We used to come out of church and when we went back after we finally got a little bit of money and could go out to eat, we would say, where do you want to go out to eat? And it would proceed. You know, that four of them, my wife and my three kids, would argue for the next few minutes until I would just decide, because, you know, you're right, it just it didn't work. Right.

Dadgum inmates running the asylum. And so I look at Sharon and go, OK, man, you're about to decide this because I'm tired of them in the back seat. Those people in the back seat didn't get any brains. Right. So we're going to just decide. And that's the joke. But the the you know, the truth is that I think you and I would take these teenagers feelings into consideration. It doesn't mean I won't do it right.

But and they don't get a vote per say, and they're never you can't expect a teenager to understand what living in Africa for years is going to be is going to do to their hearts and minds.

And I can't understand it because I've never done it. That's right. And so, no, no teenager is going to be on board with, hey, we're going to leave everything, you know, go to another country away from your friends, your family, your community, your church, all of that. We're going to start over completely for a year.

Your Instagram is going to get totally screwed up. It's everything's going to be messed up.

Right. So go into it with a different mindset. But no, they don't.

If you and your wife think that's the best interest for your family, for you take them dragging, kicking and screaming.

I would I would think there is something wrong with my teenager if they're not kicking and screaming, OK, because they don't know any different. Yeah, right. They don't know it unless they just you've you've trained them to have a robust sense of adventure right now. If you're living out some fantasy and this is against the best interest of your kids, we're all going to I'm going to sell the house and we're going to move to Tennessee to pursue my songwriting career.

We're going to live in a one bedroom apartment. So I'm not going to have any money. And the kids say debt is a bad idea right there.

Being more Dolton Doulton, you are exactly right. Right, right. But yeah, so.

But I wouldn't expect a teenager to be fully invested because they wouldn't understand they don't have the wisdom to look down the road. They don't have the wisdom to understand that my innate discomfort is not going to pay off in massive ways down the road.

Yeah, I agree, I'm trying to think. About when our kids were there, if we had wanted to do something like that, what would have happened? They would have objected. Absolutely no question about it. But I also would like to think we never did it. So I really don't have a test case. But I would like to think that some other times that I had challenged them on something and said, you know, you didn't wanna do this, but we did it because I thought it was a good idea.

It worked out then, you know, maybe I'd made some deposits. There you go in earlier before I get to this decision. So if only deposit you've made if all you've done to make withdrawals up to this point and dad's constantly going on an adventure and it's constantly putting everybody in peril and the kids are tired of the emotional upheaval for dad chasing this weird adventure thing he's got, then.

Yeah, you know, I would give them you know, I'd give their voice much more credence. But if all you've ever done is make sure that they're OK and other times you stretch them and it turned out good to their benefit and they smiled, but they didn't think when you went on that vacation it was going to work out. And now this is another one. Then you've earned the right. To force their hand, those relational deposits, yeah, and my hope would be that this isn't one of those things that someone was driving home from work and they thought, I hate my job.

It's time for me to do something drastic. My hope is when you're going to make a transition like this that's been instrumental in welfare in your family there before for a week or two, you have shown them videos and pictures and you've met families from there. And you have it's a part of the fabric of your life, right?

Exactly. One of the best things we did with our teens was send them on missions, trips. But they were a week long, right. You know, or whatever. And or they went on chervil several trips with them because they get out of the prosperity bubble.

Right. And see real world poverty. That's right. And she people that are happy in spite of living in a cardboard box. And so it redefines happiness. It's not based on stuff or electronics or screentime. It's reset and bust the bubble, you know. And so it was very valuable in that regard. This would be a bigger version of that. Right. These kids could come home changed, transformed forever.

Right. And that's where I say again, a teenager can only feel in right now. They're not fully developed. That's why we don't give them car keys. That's why we don't give them the ability to vote or to fill in the blank. Right. Because we have all decided they don't have the maturity to handle some of that because they live in the right now in the what is going to keep me comfortable and keep me engaged in my community right now.

And they wouldn't have the wisdom to see beyond that. But I love what you said, man. There's got to be some relational deposits along the way.

So if you're going to make life transitions, I don't feel guilty about forcing it if I'm not being your response. Absolutely not. And if I have made deposits. That's right. If after that they're throwing a little hissy fit and they'll just have to do it and I would expect them to their kids. But I mean, I'm just saying that's part of the equation. But I'm OK. I'm not going to be going over in my child's life because they actually are going to say, you've ruined my life.

That's actually a phrase they to hate you.

You're killing me. You're ruining everything. I loved that boy. Right? All the stuff.

My Instagram is going to go dormant. That's right. I'm going to lose all my followers. Yes. All the super tragic stuff. Right? Yeah. Yeah. It's all over for when that happens. So, you know, you're going to your ability to do a reality show later is going down the tubes and so. Darn it, that's awful. I hate it that that happened.

Rebecca is in Salt Lake City. Hi, Rebecca. Welcome to The Dave Ramsey Show.

Hi, Dave. Hi, John. Thanks for taking my call this afternoon. Sure. What's up? So my husband and I just got started on your whole process. We're on baby step two. And before we were introduced to you, we bought a car on a lease. And so we're trying to we want to pay it off, but I'm not sure if there's any penalties or fees associated with paying it off early. I talked to Nissan and they said that there aren't any fees or penalties.

There aren't.

As a matter of fact, you will save money for doing a Nissan lease can be paid off early. It's like paying a regular car loan off early. You save the interest for the years that you don't have it.

And in a lease, there's not technically interest, although they obviously charge a cost of funds. This is what's built into it. That equates in most cases to about fourteen percent. So it's not a really good deal, as you found out. So you call you get the early buyout figure from Nissan. Did they give that to you? Yes, we did. OK, what is that? It's twenty three thousand eight hundred and eighteen dollars and twenty three cents.

OK, and what is your lease payment? Our lease payment is three hundred and thirty nine dollars and sixty nine cents a month. And how many months are left on the lease? Twenty four.

OK, so if you multiply three, thirty nine times twenty four plus what you were under contract, you can put your contract out and look at it. What you can buy the car for at the end of the lease you will find that is 5000 dollars less are more than twenty three thousand. It's going to be about twenty six to twenty eight thousand dollars. So I'm going to guess and say when you do the math that by paying it off early you are and you can only do it in one lump sum.

They won't take the extra payments, but by paying it off early, you're going to save three to five thousand dollars. That's my guess. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, business leaders, right now, you have jobs that need filling and, you know, there are qualified candidates out there, you just need to find them.

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In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, Jake and Carrie, you're with us on the debris stage. Hey, guys, how are you? Hey, how are you? Welcome. Welcome. Do you guys live this good to Illinois? So, St. Louis folk, welcome to Nashville. Good to have you. And all the way down here to do a debt free scream. How much have you paid off? Ninety thousand eight hundred thirty eight. Very good.

And how long did that take? Two years and seven months. All right.

Very good. And your range of income during that time, we started out at 75000 and up to one hundred and twenty now. Very good. What do you guys do for a living?

I'm a dental hygienist and I'm an estimate here for a construction company. Very good. Very good. So your income shot way up really over the last two years. Very good. Excellent. What do you attribute that to? We both just kind of found out we were underpaid and took new jobs, same field, and jumped our income up. Yeah.

Once you start trying to get out of debt, you're looking for money and you're going, I think I need more money. Yeah, that's a good thing. Wow. Very cool. You were almost underpaid by half.

Yeah, I took a big pay pay bump when I moved companies. Wow. That's pretty impressive, you guys. Yeah, well done. All right. What kind of debt was the ninety one thousand dollars?

Just like 800 bucks on a credit card, like 23 on a car. And we found out like 500 bucks on some medical that was in collections. We had no idea about halfway through. And then all the rest of student loans, bunch student loan debt. OK. Twenty three thousand on a car. No. Twenty three hundred twenty three hundred. You had a bunch of student loans. Yeah. Yes. Wow. So we're talking like 80 grand.

Yeah. Yeah. OK. Oh my goodness. Very cool. All right. So what happened? Two months, two years and seven months ago that got this started. So start a little before that. My brother in law who's here unexpectedly lost his job and they started going through a few and telling us about it. And so we kind of us and my mom, my parents jumped on the on the bandwagon. And today we're all debt free.

Wow. I was had and happened to be a job loss that got everyone going. It's a family affair. Mm hmm. I love it. I love it. Wow. Very cool. So he gets it started because he's freaking out losing his job and you guys jump in to the class. Just kind of OK, well, let's check this out. Yep. And went through Financial Peace University. All right. Very neat.

So, OK, so you kind of wander in. I mean, you didn't have it was like, well, I'll check it out. It sounds like. Right. Is that we had separate accounts and I was stressed because I paid all the bills and we cheated on. We did that. I mean, we're normal. We just got married now.

So you pretty much just kind of stumbled into this thing because of the brother in law. And then you go to that first class or second class or third class. When did it click? And you went, oh, my God, we got to do this. Honestly, before I started watching your show, as soon as I heard about it, I'm telling her everything and I did it, did the wrong approach where I'm like, we're selling everything.

And, you know, she's like, whoa, no, we're not. So we went to the class and kind of got on the same page, started budgeting. We were paying over fifteen hundred dollars a month in student loan payments. Oh my gosh.

So, yeah, she she's a dental hygienist. Her bullcrap ometer is pretty high, right. Yeah. People we tell you that they floss and they're like, oh yeah. So she's got you know. She knows. Yes. So he comes to you and says we're selling everything to perfection in the world. The dental hygienist. That's right. Followed by the person at the at the airline counter as to why we're changing our tickets. Right. So so he comes to you and says, I must sell everything.

What's your response?

I definitely was nervous about it first. I wasn't. Yeah. And I didn't I wasn't worried at first, I'll be honest. So and I don't think I really was into it and believing it until we were really starting to see things paid off. Yeah.

I think what I said, I'm going to sell my motorcycle to get it going. I think that's when she was like, OK, he's pretty serious. Yeah.

Yeah. As opposed to selling her car, we didn't have much cars to sell anyways. Yeah. OK, all right. Wow, guys, very cool. So when people ask and you're now your whole family's gotten out of that, your parents a brother in law, the whole bit and they ask, what's the key?

Because you've observed it with your family. You've also lived it, your experts. Now I'm getting out of that. So people want to know in America, how do you get out of debt? What are the keys?

I would just I would say one of the things is dedication. And you got to stay motivated. It's really hard. The first when you first start, you're fired up. You're paying off all these little ones. But when you get three classes way through and you're trying to pay off a twelve thousand dollar debt, it's just taken months and months is dragging on. I led for you a couple of times, so that was helpful. Yeah, our whole family going through it, leading it makes you do it even more than going through it.

Yeah. Yeah.

So I feel like people hearing like or hearing people doubt you helps you to.

Oh you look at those. Oh yeah. A lot of our friends doubted us so. I'll show you so now now you get to say, you know how you like me now, right? Yeah, I have a little Toby Keith moment. We want we want you to call out every one of your haters right now. Just just give us their name right now. Your cell numbers. That's right. It's like going back to the mean girl in high school.

Oh, my gosh. Wow.

Well, it is motivating people to tell you can't do something. I mean, especially once you've decided you're going to, like, show you, huh?

Yeah, that's good. It was very good. Yeah. There's a guy in the radio business that wrote a real nasty letter one time about how the Dave Ramsey show wasn't going to be worth anything, would never amount to anything. And we framed it and put it on the wall in the radio area just to fuel us, piss me off like a decade worth of pissed off. Yeah. I mean, yeah, yeah. He's not in the business anymore either, by the way.

So and we are but yeah. I mean that's just. Yeah. Come on bring in. Yeah. That I agree with.

Not that Dave hangs on to things or anything like that. I don't have any issues with grudges. Oh no. Dave if you don't know is actually Latin for the word grudge.

So it's good guys for you to go.

So, so very proud of you. So you guys were cheering each other on. You had people on for you cheering you on. You were cheering them on. There's a lot a lot of positive around you, too, right?

Yeah. We just to say that within the last three years, our whole family, my parents paid off their house, their people. We paid off in the last less than three years. Three hundred and over almost three hundred thirty thousand dollars in three families. Yeah, there we go. I like a family total. That's good. And has this family together. Yeah. You brought them with you, right? Yeah. They're all here, over here holding on to the grandbaby, which is really hard work.

Yeah. How old is your baby. He's eight weeks. Eight weeks. Oh man.

And the thick of it. We had a goal. We had two things we want to do. We needed to get a newer car because we had a two door car and one without air conditioning. So we saved up during covid, actually. And I know you told that you tell people to pause, but we were just wanted to get it done. And so we bought a fourteen thousand dollar SUV cash we saved up for then we wanted to have that and be debt free before he was born.

So he didn't have to ever live with that. There you go. Wow. Hey, won't is your family tree is changed and your dad's family tree changed. I mean, that's that's this is very cool generational we're looking at right here three generations. Very, very cool.

Way to go, guys. I love it. Well, we got a copy of Chris Hoggins book for you every day. Millionaires, of course. That's the next chapter in your story for sure. You are on the way. One hundred and twenty thousand dollar income now and having paid off ninety one thousand over two years and seven months, looking to bring this little baby over, going to scream with the baby, the special headphones.

Oh, he's got the headphones on. That's good. That way we don't scream and wake him up. Yeah.

We've had some parents that just blew their kids a little too excited. Oh, he's cute. Very funny. Very funny. If they stay a little loud. I had ten. I kept growing up wanting cars, intuition. But I. Way to go you guys. Very well done.

All right. Here it is, Jake and Carrie and Braden from St. Louis area ninety one thousand paid off in two years and seven months, making seventy five to one twenty. Count it down.

Lazzara debt free scream three to one where free. Britain never flinched. Not even a little bit. He's just still sleeping. Oh, that's so cool, man. That is awesome. Look at it. There's three generations out there, and that's so neat, so neat.

And a few tears, too. That's so cool, man.

Every time it's cool. I mean, wow, when you can change something like that, they are.

That's breathtaking. It is so next time you lose your job, just go ahead and get your brother and sister in law out of debt, your mom and dad and mom and dad out of debt and yourself out of debt. So that's turning the negative into a positive. How's that for all things work together? I love it. And it's fun stuff. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. For which of you desiring to build a tower does not sit down first and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it chooses his words and look 14 twenty eight hour scripture the day Tony Robbins said setting goals is the first step to turning the invisible into the visible.

Very true. Abbie is with us in Flint, Michigan. Hi, Abbie. Welcome to The Dave Ramsey Show.

Hi. Thank you for taking my call. My honor. How can we help?

So I am wondering which baby step I'm on and I'm wondering whether unbe baby step two or four. So a little bit of background. I am in college right now and I'm in my first year of community college and I have enough saved for my second year plus a couple of extra thousand. Good for you. And I done. Thank you. So I don't think that I want to get the entire four year degree. I think that I'm just wanting to get my associate's degree and then go into the military.

But I I'm just not sure whether I should start investing or if I should keep piling up the cash in case I do decide to go to university.

You should keep piling up the cash in case you decide to go to university. Once you've made the decision, you can decide. If you decide not to go, you have a pile of cash. OK, that's not there's no downside to that strategy, the baby steps you really are for you're in the middle of your education process and the baby steps are really for after you get out of education. When you graduate and you're working a job, then you work through the process of building your emergency fund, getting out of debt and starting to build wealth in your retirement and paying off your house.

But you're right now. You have you have really one goal. Finish your education if that's a two year or a four year. OK, that's you're only going to be like with all my extra money, just just let it sit on her account. There's nothing wrong with having a pile of cash.

When you are ready to make a decision, it helps you to make the decision. If you're broke, you make a different decision than if you're not broke.

Yes, you might go into the military kind of sort of not wanting to because you need the money to eat. Or you might go into the military to serve your country on a very noble thing because you have a complete choice, because there's thirty thousand dollars laying in your account. John, what would you coach own 100 percent? Yeah, there's no downside. Your goal is to get out of whatever education endeavor, debt free, and then you can make other decisions later.

The challenge you're going to have is you're bored and you're smart. And so community college, the first semester is boring you. And so you're trying to figure out other things to be doing and just be at peace with where you are right now.

Knock your classes out, learn a lot if you can get an internship, if you can get a job in the field where you want to be learning, go for it. But just follow the plan B slow and enjoy your time. You're going to go to the military. Life's about to change in a drastic way. Or if you go to a four year degree and graduate, then life changes.

So enjoy where you're at. OK, have some peace. You're doing it right, you're kicking, but you are way, way, way ahead of the game, Abbi. Here's the reason, the main reason you're way ahead. Not only are you accomplishing these goals with cash and you're building up some cash, that's impressive. But what's most impressive is most people just do not do life with any sense of intentionality. And you're just being very intentional.

And that's really weird for most people don't do it. Most people just kind of wander along and then wonder why they're broke. They wander along and then wonder why they got a degree and left handed puppetry that useless.

And they wander along and they go, well, I got this degree and, you know, Gothic poetry and, you know, and then I can't figure out why I can't get a job because there are no little woods fairies hiring. That's the problem. And so. Oh, my God. You know, it's just the kind of stuff. Right. So that actually did happen the other day.

But there's actually got the guy who got a minor in Gothic poetry, so it did happen higher.

Ed, is it industry? Listen to me. You're doing it to yourself. Stop. That's all. That's all. Just start.

If you don't offer that degree, we won't make fun of you anymore. Stop. I'm trying to help you from the inside here, man. Stop. You do it yourself as an industry. Yeah. So you yabbie you are not doing any of that stupid stuff. You are being very smart, very intentional. I meet people who kind of life happens to them until there are 35 or 40 and then they decide they have to be intentional and happen to life.

And so you are, you are way ahead of the game.

And by the way, you have more the options on the table than are more options that you could choose than the ones you put on the table. So the options will continue to unfold for you and you'll continue to make great calls. You are a sharp young lady. Heidi is in Wichita, Kansas. Hey, Heidi, how are you?

I'm good. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up? Well, I'm a little nervous, so hopefully I can get this out. But we are in a situation. My husband and I, we're 52 and forty seven, and both of us have basically been self employed most of our lives. He is a freelance artist. I am a groomer. And he has actually and they are now taking a job in Philadelphia. It is an art based government job.

We are trying to make sure that we are making the right decision and making this move if that's what we end up committing to easy over there, testing it or he took the job.

Did you already make the decision? Well, we decided he could take the job. We haven't sold the house. I'm still in Kansas. And just to make sure that it was a good thing before we sold our house and all of those things, he took the job.

I wasn't sure of it. Right.

Well, you know, being self-employed, he has he has done, you know, production type jobs. OK, so how can we best help you?

And, you know, we're in baby steps for six and seven. We have no children, but had just actually finished baby step three just as a pandemic hit, basically. So your program has been ultra important to us. But yeah, just struggling with, you know, moving from, you know, our house. We all know about 90000 on it.

So what did what did he used to make as a freelancer? Sculpture. No, I'm sorry. Money, how much money? Oh, OK. Money last year for expenses with one hundred and eighteen for sixty one, OK. And that was for both of us. That was about about what did happen. You know, I think that was fair, but that may have just been the business total after expenses. Seventy seven seven four nine he made he made seventy thousand dollars in sculpture's net profit.

I think that was both of us. OK, I make 45. So he made thirty five thousand dollars down sculpture.

OK, and how much is left of them? How much is that you're going to get your numbers straight because it's going to matter. All right. So what's the what's the government paying him?

Hundred and eight for sixty one this year. And then it'll go up to one hundred and fifteen.

So suffice it to say, he more than doubled his income. Yeah, except that you're also dealing with higher cost of living. Different world and so forth.

And then the next question is, do you not want to live there because you really don't sound like you want to leave Kansas to me.

I have a sister and a one year old niece that lives four blocks from my house. That a yes or no? It's an answer. I would rather stay here with them, but I am open to them. The benefit the move gives me is getting to potentially change careers. Grooming is what I've done for 25 years and it is very hard on them.

OK, so what I'm going to tell you is nothing is forever and it doesn't have to be forever. If you go to Philadelphia and two years from now, it's not an adventure, it's a nightmare. Go home.

You're both self employed and smart and good. You'll figure it out. Go home, go start again and you'll be fine. I just I think you're making this too permanent. You're acting like this is a death sentence. Are you going to jail and you can't get out or you're going to miss that niece.

Once you take what you can fly back over there.

You have four times more money. Yeah. So buy an airline ticket. But he's already taken the job. So at this point, I think it's a sale and going.

Yeah, I think I think you're second guessing after you've already done your decision. Right. I put us out of the Dave Ramsey Show on the books, thanks to James Childs, our producer, Kelly Daniel, our associate producer and phone screener. I am Dave Ramsey. Your host will be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial piece, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace.

Christ, Jesus. Hey, guys, this is Kelly, associate producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. Did you know over 16 million people listen to the Dave Ramsey Show every week and a lot of those people listen to one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country to find a station near you. Head to Dave Ramsey, dot com slash. Feel like you're in a rut and living life, just going through the motions, build confidence in yourself and learn to trust the God who created you, check out the Christy Wright Show, where Christy inspires you to break through your limitations and create the life you're proud to live.

Hey, all, I'm Christy, right? You know, it's so easy to feel stuck. You live life just going through the motions, doing dishes, doing laundry, carpool lines and a whole list of commitments that bring you no joy. Why do we live like that? That's why I want you to check out the Christy Wright Show. Each episode will help you build confidence in yourself and the God that created. You hear more from the Ramsey network, including the Christy Wright Show wherever you listen to podcasts.

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