Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollars Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show that is done. Cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW. The status symbol of choice for you, right, Remzi personality is my co-host today here on the air.

We are taking your calls about your life and your money. It's a free call, a triple eight eight two five five two two five. That's triple eight eight two five five two two five.

Brant is with us from Nashville to start off this hour. Hey, Brent, how are you?

I'm doing well. So how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, I was calling because I just recently moved to Tennessee for a girl and she and I've been getting very close and we started looking at rings. I've got about 1500 in the savings account for my step one. I'm working on step two. Got to finish paying off credit cards. Only payment I have left is I owe on my pick up. And I was starting to think about buying a ring and popping the question. So I was wondering if I should pause on the debt after I pay off the credit card, paused on the pause on overpaying the truck and try to save up money for the wedding and honeymoon and all that.

Or if you think that would be a bad idea. Well, I think you're going to get married and I think and I think you better figure out a way to pay for it. Yeah, I mean, I don't think there's, you know, any questions.

So you're probably pushing pause on your whole baby steps thing right now and piling up the cash cash first for a ring. And then, you know, once you set a date, then you lay out your goals and what you need to spend on a wedding. So what do you make?

And I'm currently making around 35 to four thousand a month.

OK. All right. And what would you I mean, have you had any discussions with her at all that this is not a surprise to her or you guys are about avoiding or how far out this might be that she finds out by listening right now?

Oh, that's right. Well, we've gone out together and looked at rings and she just picked one out. It's kind of what we do and we haven't bought it or anything yet. But she definitely I saw the way she looked at it.

So I'm kind of like, that's the ring I got to get, you know, at this point, maybe so, maybe a little bit more than what I was thinking. But how much is a really pretty ring? I believe it was three thousand.

OK, that's all right. So one month's one month's income is your max on a ring.

Yeah, so thrilled to and you save up, obviously, and you pay cash for it, then then you start talking about, OK, what are we going to spend on the wedding and how far away is that?

And, you know, can we save up that amount of money during that time? If you can't, then that's not your wedding budget. Yeah, so any idea how long this might be? I don't know, to be honest, it's kind of one of those things we actually just met back in January. Crazy story. I didn't ever think we would be here, but here we are. And so we really agree on a lot. And she's actually the one that's kind of been pushing me to start studying your process and your systems.

And I actually just started listening to you yesterday, and it was kind of like almost like drugs for me. I started and I just I started listening to every every podcast that would come on, these are good clarifier drugs that help you.

It's an antibiotic.

I'm your kind of one of those things where she and her mom, they have very they told me a little bit about your system and things like that. And so I kind of yesterday everything's just kind of becoming a little more real. So I just decided, you know, I want to make sure that I can give her a good future and in my family, a good future. So I started listening to you and and it's kind of just one thing led to another.

And she works currently. She does work. She is she said she plans to work. She wants to be a homemaker. And I love that about her.

That's why so much that. Does she have. She has none.

OK, and what does she want as she currently make she I don't know the specifics. I know her parents are going to pay for the wedding. I'm not sure on that either. I'm thinking. So they're very traditional. And so I'm thinking that, you know, there's going to be quite a bit of an offset cost that they're going to take care of. OK, on that. How are you going that? Are you. I'm twenty five.

She is twenty. OK, yeah, I suspect.

All right, cool. That's fine. Well, I think the first thing is you say, yes, we're going to push pause and yes, we buy a ring and no, you don't do not pay more than one month's income. The jewelry stores sometimes will tell you up to three months income for an engagement ring. And here's the thing. I'm a real practical guy. I get it that you're in love, but I'm a real practical guy. And there is zero correlation between the size of the ring and the success of the marriage.

As a matter of fact, at this point, the ring gets to a certain size. There's an inverse correlation.

So meaning that people who drink can indicate failure. Yeah, yeah.

But then she is the type that she would be fine with a two hundred dollar ring. I know, but she picked out a three thousand dollar ring and smiled and said Oh yeah. Oh there it is. So yeah.

So she's obviously a great gal so you stop and you save up for the ring then when you, but you have to then assess what responsibility you guys have for the wedding and the honeymoon.

And you have to and you have to say that has to be far enough out that you can save up and pay cash for that too.

Yeah. And I know it's not going to be something where we're getting married next month or anything like that.

I know. But so let's just say let's just pick a number, OK? Let's say next May. All right.

And you know, and so, you know, you have, what, ten months or something?

Yeah. And and you're going to need ten thousand dollars. Well, you need to save a thousand dollars a month or you need to get ten thousand dollars before you push play again on your baby steps.

So we're going to get the ring and your your portion of the wedding that you're going to pay cash for out of the way before you push play again and get it start getting out of debt.

So it makes sense.

Yeah. Yeah. And I know she's she's kind of she's a lot better with money than I am clearly, just because she but she did put me on your trail. I used to be really good with money and then I got a job making a lot of money and I suddenly got very bad with money. You know, it's kind of one of those things. The more you make, the more you spend.

Yeah, I think you're going to be OK. I think it's going to work out.

And yeah, we will continue to be the antibodies and antibiotics, the good drugs to help you guys get this dialed in.

But yeah, nothing you told me here is out of line. If you come in and go, we're going to finance a thirty thousand dollar wedding because that's her dream wedding that I'm going to say. You start telling me about ten thousand on a ring on thirty thousand, three thousand or four thousand a month income.

I'm going to say, whoa, I'm you know, I've always wanted to go the Caribbean and drop or go to Hawaii and drop ten grand on my honeymoon.

So not with the numbers you're given me here.

So not unless you're getting married five years from now, which is also low. So, you know, you just got it. You got a dollar on you. Some common sense and some planning, some goal setting. And then I'll tell you what your points are that you have to hear and what you know, the level of wedding you're going to have. And that's all part of the program. Good question. Brant, congratulate. You can let us know after this is all happening, and we'll we'll congratulate you again.

All right. There we go. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. If you're like my wife, Sharon, you're always looking for inspiration when it comes to cooking at home. You heard me talking about Butcher Box. This is a great company. Founder Mike Salguero is a dad who understands how important it is to trust the food that you put on your family's plates. That's why I butcher box delivers grass fed, beef free range, organic chicken heritage breed pork and wild caught seafood directly to your doorstep, all humanely raised.

No added hormones or antibiotics. Ever visit butcher box dotcoms like Ramsay to check it out? The business boutique livestream goes on sale today, Kristie. Right, your personality is my co-host, the creator of Business Budik and the whole whole movement around it. We will have a packed out crowd here in Nashville. We have a few seats available. We're going to sell it to 50 percent to leave a little room in there for folks. And looking forward to this business boutique event has always a sell out.

And it's going to be October 22nd through the 24th this year for the first time ever launched.

Today, we're going to stream the entire event for only one hundred twenty nine dollars ticket. And this is a three day two and a three day event.

Yeah. And we cover all of the main things that these women struggle with, a marketing sales, managing your money, social media. And, you know, we talk about this all the time, but pushing past your fear, we give them the information they need to win, but also the inspiration to believe they can do it. And Dave, you've seen it a million times when you've spoken at this event. That's actually what changes the game. When they walk out of there, they believe they can do it.

They come in timid, holding onto their bag. Is there a seat for me here? And they walk out ready to charge with the water pistol like they are excited and they're going to go win. And it's amazing how that one decision changes the trajectory of their business and their life. So, man, I'm so excited because so many more people are going to get helped by the fact that they can watch it from home if they can't travel this year.

So this can be really great.

You know, the business boutique event, equipping women to make money doing what they love.

It's all about ladies starting running and operating businesses. And we typically have about 3000 folks here.

We should have around 1500 this year if your state is a state that you would like to temporarily escape from. Yeah, come on down. Come on down. Tennessee's open. And we're open for business here and we'd love to have you. This will be in October. And of course, things will be different by then, one way or the other. And so we would love to have you there. Still some tickets available if you'd like to come in person.

And of course, in addition to that, we're launching today the 129 million live stream. You're going to hear a lot from Christie. Chris Hogan will be speaking. Elisabeth Hasselbeck will be speaking. Any downs. I'll be doing a keynote as well. And I'm excited about some of these other ladies that are speaking this first time. A few of them have been on this stage with you.

Yeah. And we try to change it up for that reason. We try to keep the speakers fresh, have new perspectives, new styles. Every single talk I'm doing this year is new. So that's going to be fun because if you've come before, it's going to feel like a completely new and fresh event because it is. And we've worked really hard to create new, relevant content, especially in the landscape of what people are dealing with this year.

Well, I had some judges ice cream of the day. Yeah. And you Butler's coming home. Yes. Yes. So I may come get some changes.

OK, you come get some samples. I may just show up and act like I own the place or something. Yeah, just something like that.

You know, it's so funny though is when you hear from women like Gigi Butler, like you, you tell your story about her leadership summit and master series or, you know, someone like Jamie Kolyma. When you hear from women that have done it, men that have done it, you see something in their story that makes you believe if they can do it, I can do it, too. It's not just business principles. It's the story, the testimonial, the grit, the blood, sweat and tears that these people endured to get to where they are.

And it makes you have that strength and momentum and motivation to get through your tough season of building this thing.

Well, in order to be on the business boutique stage, you won't let them on. We won't let them on someone to deliver that isn't that is inauthentic. Right. And if you're going to be authentic in business, you've got scars. Yeah. You know, you've taken some blows. Yeah.

And if you can't talk about that in a way that is where everybody can relate to it, then you don't need to be.

That's not what we do. Right. If you got everything figured out and you have a buttoned up plan and just do my plan and it'll be perfect, you don't need to come. Yeah, because you're not even real. That didn't happen. And so and I've heard Gigi several times. She was on a voluntary podcast, for instance, earlier in the year and just really down to earth. And you're just like, wow, the humility. Right?

It was pretty incredible.

It's a major national brand. Oh, absolutely. I mean, she's done Lisa Rivera is world class communicator. Oh, my gosh. She will be great. Elisabeth's been a friend. Hasselbeck. I've been a friend for a long time for you and me and Rachel. All of us are back to the Fox and Friends day and so forth. And she's just lives here in our community and is just absolutely incredible.

So and Jamie currently does a story. Yes, she's amazing. So I had not heard about her until, I guess, like the last year or so. But she founded it cosmetics. It recently sold to L'Oreal for a billion dollars. But it's not just her story of those early days of believing in herself and what she built this empire to. But she has this heart of gold, like she's one of those people that you walk into a room and she's the big deal.

And she says, look at you, look at what you're doing. Like she's a person that shines a light on whoever she's around and she makes you. Believe in yourself, and it's just incredible when you have people in that stage that not only have this incredible success, but they have this incredible humility and heart that it just inspires you because you want to be like that.

Well, this is two and a half days of heroes. Yeah, it really is. And help you become a hero in your story for sure. Christy right. Chris Rock and Elizabeth Hasselbeck, Annie Downs, Lisa Rivera, T.J. Butler, Jamie currently, and Kelsey Humphries as our emcee again this year. And absolutely, this is an incredible lineup. The business boutique conference, the first time ever were live streaming it only 100000 dollars. You can get your tickets.

Dave Ramsey, dot com or Crystal Wright Dotcom or business boutique dotcom. Any place that there's a Ramsey thing happening and you'll see this happening as a possibility. And again, we do have a few of the.

In auditorium tickets for those of you that want to escape from your state for a day or two coming up in October, hopefully by then most of you all be open and things will be somewhat normalized. But know she's one of the states that's leading the pack on that and with good results, by the way.

And so, you know, we we we'd love to have you come visit our beautiful state.

So our Question of the Day comes from Blind's dotcom. Find out for yourself why. Blind's Dotcom is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings to get free samples, free shipping. And with the new promos I run every month, you'll save even more. Use the promo code, Ramsey, to get the best possible deal. Your question? Yes.

This comes from Abby in Indiana. This is a long one. So here we go. My husband and I have worked extremely hard to get out of debt. The only debt we have left is a little bit of my student loan debt. We started seeing a fertility specialist in January and we stopped paying down the debt to pay for treatments. So far, we've been able to pay everything out of pocket. Unfortunately, it's looking like we're going to need to go the route of IVF, which is going to cost us around 15000 dollars, which we don't have in savings at the time at this time.

We also don't have the luxury of putting a baby on hold due to our ages. Ideally, we would like to have a baby within the next year. We're both struggling with the idea of taking out credit card, taking out credit to undergo IVF, but there's no other option. What are your thoughts on this situation, Dave? This one is yours. All your stuff.

You're like thin ice, do you? Oh, my gosh, this is hard. This is why it is very hard, Abby.

And we've answered this question and worked with families a lot in this situation over the last 30 years. And I put myself in your shoes. What would happen if I was there? And that's how I answer the questions. There's nothing more important in my life than babies have been my three babies and the babies that they're having now. And so I it's it's the best thing that's ever happened to me is babies, except grandbaby's grandbaby.

I don't know how great grand babies are going to be. I have been nicer to their parents. So, yeah, it's very, very important. And this is a very emotional subject where you're dealing with infertility.

And and so it causes you to have the potential to go to extremes.

And you are you should do IVF. But as you know, it's not always successful. And the last thing you want to be doing is paying payments on an unsuccessful fertility treatment. That reminds you every single month when you write that check that you're still dealing with this. And that's a that's a that's an emotional disaster. It's also a financial disaster. It's an emotional disaster. And so if I were in your shoes, I'd work like crazy. You put the student loans on hold if you want, but I'm a pile of cash and whatever IVF program you go on and you can do it anywhere from 7000 to 37000, there's all kinds of different methodologies and programs and so forth.

They put you on and, you know, pay cash for whatever it is you're going to do because you do not want to be paying payments if there's not a baby on the way. It's it's heartbreaking. It's double devastating. So pay cash. It's very important. You know, I'm putting things on hold, work, extra jobs, whatever. You got to sell your car. It's more important than a baby. Baby is more important to the car me.

So whatever it takes, I'm with it. But pay cash and you're not too old. Eighteen months from now if you're not too old. Now, this is the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, business owners and anyone who has to talk with customers often listen up, you are the backbone of this freaking economy. And just by staying open to serve your community, you're providing hope to your customers. That's why my friends at podium want to do something special for you.

They're offering you the opportunity to text your customer base for free. So sign up at Podium Dotcom now and join our crusade to communicate, connect and spread hope. That's podium dot com.

Christy writes, Remzi personality number one, best selling author, is my co-host today here on The Dave Ramsey Show as we answer your questions about your life and your money. It's a free call, a triple eight eight two five five two two five. That's triple eight eight two five five two to five.

Adam is with us in Birmingham. Adam, your question for Christian me. Hey, Dave and Christine, it's an honor to speak with you both, thank you so much for your time. Sure. What's going on, though? Oh, absolutely. So as of this morning, my wife and I had around fifteen thousand in debt. And as of this afternoon, we have around ten thousand in debt.

Yay! So big day. Yeah. So it is an exciting day. So we wrote a check. My question is we have around twenty seven thousand in savings and we have a retirement of about 14000. So I've got the cash in the bank to write a check for the other 10, which is a remaining balance on a Toyota forerunner. The reason I'm holding back on doing that is because my third child is on the way and due next February. So that car is not big enough to Cardiff's us all around.

What's the car worth?

The car's worth around twenty four, so we sell it and buy 24000 a car that will carry all of you.

I agree. So let me ask you this. We both are at home. I run my business out of the house and my wife's a stay at home mother. We really don't need two cars. Ninety nine percent of the time, would it be of any benefit to just sell the car and share a driving schedule for the next five months and just pocket the cash and get value on that car today? Or should we just go ahead and sell it and get the other car even though we don't really need it for six more months?

Wouldn't hurt to pocket the cash, you're also saving insurance during that time, you're also saving tags during that time and obviously operating costs during that time on a second vehicle. What's the car that you're still going to be at home with?

It's a Hyundai Elantra. We own it outright and it only has 60000 miles on it.

It's got a long life ahead of it and it'll it'll take two it'll take the two kids you got now. Right. That's exactly right. OK, and so show you just what you got to do is you got to say, all right, we're debt free then right under your scenario and you just have to have a game plan to pay cash for the three kid.

Holla back to add back to the family after, you know, probably actually in January.

That's the plan. That's exactly the plan. We just weren't quite sure if it was, you know, stupid to only live off one car or if it was actually the right level of aggression to go after this.

Well, it's it's OK either way because you can write a check and pay it off today anyway. Mm hmm. Have you all played out the scenario of what it would be like to just have one car, like do you and your wife with your schedules and what you're doing, not just work, but just your day to day life? I mean, are you frequently using both cars at the same time? You just need to play this out because it may, even though your jobs may be there just with kids, doctors appointments and errands and groceries like that.

I just want to make sure you're ready for that sacrifice for the next five months to only have one vehicle before you decide to do that when you don't have to do that. That's all I'm saying. Absolutely, no question. Yes, I drive about once every two weeks and conduct almost all my meetings ever seem to it's it's no issue for me, really. The plan we're after just to kind of chart a bigger picture here is we want to have our third child with zero debt and then potentially pay off our first home in the next four or five years.

So by the time our oldest child, seven, were debt free, including the house. And so we're we're trying to set ourselves up today to hit the ground running twenty, twenty one to go after that kind of extended plan of this one. Yeah, well, you could do that and pay off the Toyota forerunner and and or sell it and pay off another car of the same value. So that doesn't hurt anything.

So, you know, I think you do your plan because you'll have enough in the bank to go buy a car, right?

That's right. OK, so do your plan.

And if it doesn't work, just go by car, OK?

Or go by car in January if your plan works. But either way, you're going to buy a car sometime between now and then, right?

That's right. Yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah. And so there's no downside to giving it a shot because if you get a you know, like you get all stressed out, you know, things change and you need two cars.

We'll just go get a car. Yeah.

They're not that hard to find. And, you know, you can find your car and and if you don't like it, you're not another one. Funny thing about cars is people get.

They spend is almost as much emotional energy buying one or letting one go as they do a house, and they're really a fairly small transaction in the scope of your life. But it's like once you got a car, it's like I'm stuck with you forever.

And part of that is because you got into debt and you can't get out of a lot of people are upside down. They're stuck in them. But it's like it's hard. You know, I catch myself doing that even like a boat. I'm like, I could just sell boat, get another boat. It's not that big a thing. Yeah. Something about this large item moving in and out of your life.

The physical presence that it has makes it a big decision.

I think it's I think it's maybe I think it's partially because you spend a lot of time in it for a lot of people. But I think also the car buying and selling experience for most people is very stressful. It's stressful to do the research. Is this going to be a lemon? Is it going to, you know, have some secret thing that's wrong with it? I think people get nervous about buying or selling their car and taking advantage of it has such a bad rap in that industry.

And so I think, yeah, they try to avoid it in that I caught myself doing that.

I bought a truck, you know, I just upgraded a truck, you know, so much raptor and bought a truck and I don't like it. You didn't like the new truck? Not not today. I did it last year. Yeah. And I'm driving the thing for about three months and I'm like, I hate this truck. Why am I driving this truck?

And so I just went and bought another truck, got rid of it. I mean, it's like I had this thing that feels like a massive deal fell like I'm stuck with it.

Why am I stuck with it? Because I'm too stupid to sell it, you know? And I was just like, I hate the stupid thing. I'm getting rid of it.

And it was and got me another raptor, which I like, you know. So I mean, it just it was bad, but it's and it was I didn't want to admit that I'd made a mistake was part of it, I think.

But because Sharon didn't like the truck to start with what that really means, I'd made a mistake.

Right. Dang it. She was dead. Come, I got two or three things here at once. So but I mean all of that stuff kind of thing, all that kind of comes into play.

So Adam's Adam's he's thinking it through using good critical thinking skills. And what we find folks, Chris, you know, I found this in business. We found it in leadership.

We found it in just about any area of life. But certainly in money, when you start paying attention, you start making better decisions.

It's the it's the decisions that you are half baked and you have.

But think it through that you get you know, that's when you get in the stupid zone. Yeah.

And it's just amazing, too, because he's run through several different scenarios. And I love how you even played it out. Like, if it works great by the car in January, if it doesn't work, then by car before. But you have options and you've played it out. That's one of the things that you're really good about. Now, I've noticed that when you're answering questions, you're not just thinking about what's the decision in front of me, it's how is that going to knock down a domino of other things?

And I want to forecast that out. Say, like, how do I feel about that future or that one?

And so and he's doing that. I'm doing that. He's looking at the different scenarios he's planning ahead for this baby. Congratulations on your third baby. And so this is yeah, he's in a good spot.

He's doing well, Christi. So three baby. Mommy, so is so is Rachel. That's right. And and Rachel definitely went into the minivan world.

I know. I go sell you a minivan. Oh, she's like a little minivan.

You know, she made me take a tour of it in her car. She does. She does. She takes people on tours of her village. She was very ridiculous. She says she has a Honda. Her van is a Honda.

Probably put it on Instagram and on the tour. I'm sure she has.

She has a Honda and I have a Honda pilot. We got these are the same time with the third row for the babies. I have a Honda pilot, so I give her such a hard time about the minivan and she goes through all the features of her minivan. I'm like, Rachel, my pilot does all except for the night because, you know, I love you.

But everything else, it does it.

My goodness. Yeah, but that's the thing. We Americans, we have a love affair with our cars.

Yeah, we do. We really do. It's like the credit card we get emotionally attached to it.

We were just talking about that and you and you move without being intentional. And Proverbs says he who is impulsive, exalts Folie. Folly is the verb of a fool in action when I am impulsive, I am a fool in action. When I'm careful, thoughtful, critical thinking skills, intentional, I'm wise. The opposite of a fool. Impulsive is a fool in action.

I have been both, so I know what they look like. This is the Dave Ramsey Show.

Our scripture the day First Corinthians 110, I appeal to you brothers by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be unified in the same mind and the same judgment.

John Maxwell says to collapse to collaborative team members, completing one another is more important than competing with one another. Who? That's good.

Christie, right, is my co-host today here on the Dave Ramsey Show. And Christie is on the line in Philadelphia.

Hi, Christie. How are you? I'm great, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So my husband and I have been married for two years. He's been working at a job for twenty five years. We're in Baby Steps six. So my question is, I'm trying to wrap my head around how much he should be contributing to his 401k with his match and then how much he should be putting into a Roth IRA. So his company gives him a 10 percent match, up to five percent of his yearly salary.

So I'm having trouble with the math on how much should he do there and how much should he put into a role on the side? Gotcha.

Good question. OK, so your baby step for putting 15 percent of your household income into retirement. She said, yeah, we're actually working on baby steps, OK, to pay the house off. OK, well, you would be putting 15 percent into retirement then total of your household income into all retirement plans combined equals 15 percent of your household income. That's the plan right now with everything else going on the house.

Now, the the does your husband's 401k have a Roth option?

It is not OK, the the equation, it's kind of a rock, paper, scissors thing, except it only one way wins. OK, so. Match beach, wrath beach traditional. So that gives you your order of attack, take all the match you can get, which won't get you to 15 percent of your household income. Take all the match you can get, because 100 percent right of return on your money is better than tax free. Mathematically, OK, then the next thing, the next best thing is tax free Roth.

So you do a Roth on you, a Roth on him after you did the match, if the if those three things, the two Roths and the match don't add up to 15 percent, then you would, in a sense, go back to the 401k and do non matching traditional. To get you up to the 15 percent. OK. Did that make sense? I'm trying to wrap my head around it. OK, so what's your household income? About 140000, OK, so we're talking about twenty two thousand dollars.

OK, that you should be putting in.

All right. And so you take the out of that twenty two thousand dollars that needs to be going in.

You say how much goes in? To the match now, not counting the match, not counting the match, but how much of how much money can I put in and get a match?

You know what that is? OK, I don't I don't know.

I'm going to make up a number. OK, I must say six thousand dollars. I just made that up. OK, ok. Just use this example. We're trying to get to twenty two. We're going to get the match with the first 6000. Right. OK, and so. You know, that gets us down to 16000 that we still need to do. OK, then you would do a couple of Roths. How old are you two?

I'm thirty, and he's 45. OK, so you can do six thousand dollars Roths each. That's twelve thousand dollars out of the six remaining.

So I still got four thousand dollars. I need to put somewhere to in my example to get up to 15 percent. And I would, I would just put an extra 4000 dollars beyond the match into the traditional 401k to get there. OK, but the wrath is better than the traditional 401k non-match portion because it's tax free growth.

Right. So that's why I'm stepping down. I'm sorry. That's OK. So I have a Roth 401k with the company I just started for, so I switched to that because I've been watching you for a couple of months and I knew go after that because they matched the same either way.

OK, that further complicates the equation then. OK, so we're still back to your household incomes. One hundred and forty. Yes. OK, so we're back to our 22000 example. And we're going to get your match and his match. And whatever's left over of the 22000 after we both go get our matches, then we're going to put it in a Roth somewhere. So you're probably going to complete your 401K and two individual Roths and you're probably not going to do any more of his work other than his match.

That's probably how the math is going to work out.

OK, because you're Roth 401k, you can load that up, and that's the same as a regular individual, Roth IRA, except that you don't have to make choices for your mutual funds.

But I mean, the math is going to work out the same. OK, so take the matches and know how much is left over due to Roths individually, do your 401k load it up. How much of the 140 is your income?

Fifty two thousand. OK, and so. Yeah, you're probably you're probably going to get to 15 percent between your 401k fully done his match and to Roths individually with a good, smart Vesterbro, you're probably going to get there, but that's how you do it. It's match is first and best next best as Roth. Next best is traditional. You're probably not going to get to his traditional non matching portion.

So it's kind of it's kind of squirrelly. It's kind of a to efficient point. But when something grows tax free, that's awesome. But if it doubled before it didn't grow tax free, you could pay the taxes and still have more money.

When when do you tell people to invest more than do you ever tell people to invest more than 15 percent when you're finished, baby, step six and you're in baby step seven.

So when you max out everything that you can keep the government's hands off.

So then you do all the traditional, all the Roth, all the matches, anything you can, anything you can do to keep the government's hands off the money. It's cronie the tax deferred or tax free. All you can I-Max out everything I can. Yeah, I fill up my HSA.

To keep the government because it's tax to tax free. Yeah, I can use it like it's a retirement account because I don't even use the money for the HSA.

If I have a small deductible hit, I just write a check for it. I'll let the HSA grow like it's a retirement account. Yeah. So I've got several hundred thousand dollars in my slinked HSA because I did. I did at the very first year they allowed us to do it because anything you can do when you're in baby steps, I just completely maxed out and again do that.

That's, that's the most efficient way to grow your investments. And then after that, the only thing you can do are low turnover, mutual funds where you've got a capital gains growth or real estate where you got a capital gains growth. Now, you're not paying the taxes on the growth to cash it out. But it's not tax.

It's not actually tax treated other than that. So something goes up in value. You don't pay taxes on it until you cash it out. And that's the capital gains direction. But again, that's all baby step seven stuff. When you're on baby four or five, six at the same time, you're limiting your investing to fifteen percent so that you can do your kid's college, so that you can picture on the house and get it done. And our average person walking these steps is paying off their home in about seven years.

And the average millionaire that we interviewed is paying paid off their home.

Some of them new us, some of them didn't in ten point three years if they knew us, eleven point two, if they didn't know us well.

So as we did that study for Hogan's book, Everyday Millionaires, so getting the home paid off in our decade or so is a big part of your first layer of millions of wealth building your first one to five million. And so that comes into play there as well. So, again, it's rock, paper, scissors, except only one way wins and meaning it's match beach wrath beats traditional.

So you go down that list until you get to 15 percent, depending on what is available to you.

So I could show, Kristie, this is great.

Thanks for having me on to check out, Kristie. Dotcom business boutique Dotcom and Ramsey Dotcom for a live stream went on sale today for the business boutique event in October. We'd love to have you join the search 101 on this first time we've ever live that. Tis the season, though, that puts us our The Dave Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial piece, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace.

Christ, Jesus.

This is James Childs, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. You can listen to Dave Rachel Pru's Chris Hogan for the rest of the Ramsey network anywhere with the Ramsey network app on your smartphone. Catch all of our full shows, browse by topic or send clips to your friends. Head to the App Store and download the Ramsey network app today.

Hey, if you've got questions about retirement investing or becoming an everyday millionaire, go bigger and broader with my man Chris Hogan on the Chris Hogan Show. I am excited to be able to talk to you all week in and week out. We're going to focus on your calls and it's going to focus on building wealth investing and how to become an everyday millionaire. Subscribed to the Chris Hogan Show wherever you listen to podcast.

Hey, it's James, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. This episode is over, but check the episode notes for links to products and services you've heard about during this episode. Thanks for listening.