Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the car rental studios, that's the Dave Ramsey Show. That is dumb. Cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Dr. John Boloney. Doc Squire is with us. You got to doc. I like that, doc. I swear I can live with that. I don't like. That's pretty good.

Yeah. I mean, I'll sit next to people with two PhDs very often, and so I have to make it take a big make a big deal out of it when he's with me today answering your questions as well.

Ramsey personality about life and about money. We're here to help you open phones at eight eight two five five two two five. That's triple eight eight two five five two to five.

We're going to start off with Kristen and Houston, Texas. Hi, Kristen. How are you?

No, I'm good. I'm I'm so grateful that Dr. John is there, too, because I'm not sure if my question is actually about money or not. It's usually one I know. Right.

I so I'm worried you're going to think this is a prank call, but it's not. I have a really unique situation with money, which is that I am part of a sibling group. We have a very large trust. It's like a ten figure trust with assets of around like three billion dollars. Good Lord. Hey, I think I've been there.

Kristen has been there. Yeah. Yes. For whatever.

Oh, so it's heavily leveraged. My dad ran it. He passed away a few years ago and he was incredibly aggressive. Just the more debt, the better. It's probably averaged about 70 percent. And then a few years before he passed, he wanted to help my husband and I buy a house. But because nothing was ever simple with him at that point, I mean, he was the kind of guy who survived from, like one deal to the next, and he would have these big windfalls of cash and then it would be gone before it even cleared the bank, basically the opposite of a Dave.

But he wanted to help us buy a house and he thought, I'm going to take out this loan to do it. And when cash comes in, I'll just pay off their house for them. It's not going to matter. So he did a ten year loan with a balloon payment at the end. Thirty year amortization and six percent interest on your house. On our house.

On a three million dollar loan so that the house was in his name. The house is in a company. I mean, nothing is simple, you know, but it's a company that I own the stock option two.

Oh, okay. So anyways, then he passed away. He didn't have time to do what he wanted to do and help us pay off our house in cash. So, you know, I, I feel so grateful to him. I mean, we're in a very weird situation, but we're like blessed beyond measure. My husband and I are now looking at our finances and we've been working our program. We have no debt. Our income is about two hundred twenty five thousand dollars a year.

The payments for our mortgage, which are about eighteen thousand dollars a month, are paid directly through the trust and they're paid as advancements against future distributions. So it's it's our money. I mean, it's coming out of what we would one day conceivably get. But right now, the trust is so leveraged that there's not capital for like big distributions. Anyways, I'm trying to decide, do we sell our house? Do we get out from under this three million dollar mortgage payment and have peace of mind or.

I don't I just I guess I just don't know what God is asking of us right now because we love our home. The money is conceivably there. And part of me feels like maybe I'm trying to get out of learning the lesson of like staying on a budget and waiting and being patient. I don't know any thoughts for me.

It's incredibly complicated, that's a mess. Yeah, I know there's a part of what I'm hearing, I think I'm hearing and you tell me if I'm wrong, Christine, that not only are you wanting to get the mortgage, you're kind of tired about tired of being on a leash to this whole mess. Yeah.

You'd like to be able to stand back and watch it as a more of a spectator than actually have it hanging over your head. Is there is that in the. I think, you know, there was a lot of pain of watching my dad the way he handled his finances. And as you say, so often it was his money, right? We're like immeasurably blessed because you're not ungrateful.

I get that.

But the bottom line is right now, but today, today, your home is tied into a convoluted, emotional mess and you kind of would like to be free of that mess.

And then if they send you something from the trust fund, if they don't find you make 200000 bucks a year, you're going to be fine.

Right. Right. Right.

Now, if the trust goes sideways, your house goes sideways.

Right. It feels like you've got that sort of Damocles hanging over your head that at some point this this thing could go away. Right. And how however far you are into a three million dollar house, that balloon comes due at the end. And it's not there. It's not there.

Why do you have kids?

Yeah, that's the hard part. I mean, we have two kids. Our home is like we walked into it.

What do you what do you owe three million on it? Yeah, it's worth about. We bought it for four point one. The realtor told me he would listed it like six point two now. So that's, you know, an amazing if it's me, I'm a Christian.

I grew up in Houston. If it's me again, you're dealing with zeros and commas that I've never dealt with.

I'd sell the house tomorrow. And there's some wonderful communities in Houston where y'all could live super comfortably with cash and be able to pay cash for three million dollar house.

Yeah, there you go. Right. I wouldn't be a bad thing. Yeah, I'm struggling through here, but.

I you know, you've got to decide what you're going to do, one of the things you said, what's got telling you to do, one of the things I use when I'm doing that is No. One, does the situation violate what I know, what scriptures indicating and the number two, do I have a piece about it?

The peace that passes understanding. And if I said if I if I'm troubled in my spirit, that means it's time about a deal I'm getting ready to go into.

That means don't go into the deal. Right.

You know, because we've all had that sense of like, oh, it all looks good and it's all logical, but there's this thing inside called the Holy Spirit going don't. And, you know, and I think the opposite will be true here.

In other words, if you're troubled, in your spirit, if you stay and I kind of keep hearing that.

And the way you're describing this, it sounds like you need to be free permission.

You need free to walk away freedom and peace, even though it's oh, by the way, it's not an indication that you're ungrateful, right. It's just an indication you don't want to be a puppet on the end of this trust.

You want the trust to be a puppet that you control.

And right now, it's got a knife hanging over your head.

So, yeah, I think if I'm in your shoes, I want to be free of that. But I'm the guy that doesn't want to live in a neighborhood where there's an H0. I don't want anybody tell me what to do.

OK, I clear. Right. And so clearly I am, you know, do not want any authority in my life except Jesus.

So especially in a city that has passed away a few years ago that handled money that was different. It just feels good to be free. Yeah. In this case, it's more of a vague it's not even your dad's memory. It's more the thing that's happening over here. And it's so big and freaking complicated. And it could end up, you know, I don't know. I don't think there's any rush. It's a weird question. You're right.

It sounds like a prank call, but I think it's real. I think you really are there. I'm looking for peace. And if you can't get peace staying there and I just heard a lot of disturbance in the way you were describing this. Most home security companies try and trap you with high prices, tricky contracts and lousy customer support, simply safe, on the other hand, has everything you need to protect your home. With none of the drawbacks of traditional home security, professional monitoring keeps watch ready to send professionals if there's an emergency.

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Dr. John Maloney Ramsey personality is my co-host today. The phone number here, eight eight two five five two two five derricks in Bristol, Tennessee. Hey, Derek, how are you? Hey, how are you? Better than I deserve.

How can we help you? I've just come across your books, your money makeover book and your videos. About a month ago, I was very intrigued. I'm 29 years old. I work at a prison in a little town in Virginia. I sold about 50000 dollars worth of sports cards last week. To kind of get in the I think like been a little boy. And this the market has tripled, quadrupled the last little bit.

That's a little bit more than just intrigued, Derek. That means you're in. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. I mean, it really helped me. Like I said, I've been watching things and I've obviously noticed that there's some bad stuff in the past, fighting vehicles. And this is kind of where I'm at. I've only got for probably for the finances that I've got. I've got a payment of entitlement for my wife. I've got two kids and also you in business part time on the side. OK, what's your question?

Well, my question is, I got 50000 dollars twenty nine thousand on my truck, eighteen thousand on the bank, and I owe twelve thousand dollars on my motor. The other, the other. The fourth payment was my house of course. But my question is, do I pay off my truck and van and I'll still have three thousand dollars roughly left over my mower is zero percent interest. Like I said, I bought that from my business. I do on the side that I bring it about one probably one point five thousand profit a month, so it'll basically pay off itself.

So I was just wondering to would it be best to just pay off my truck in the van and then go to the next step of the baby? You.

Yeah, let's correct a couple of things. Okay. Zero percent anything to do with anything. The other thing is that more is not going to pay itself off.

You're going to keep cutting grass and pay it off because if you can't cut grass at mower sitting there by itself in the garage and will pay off anything.

Absolutely. So that's a misnomer that this thing is somehow on autopilot to pay itself off. So, no, I would list my debts smallest to largest, and I would pay them in that order. Like we teach in baby step to pay the mower off and mom's car off and a big chunk on your truck. And then I'll knock your truck out with the money you were going to use to knock the mower out. You still got twelve thousand out of balance on the truck basically in this scenario.

And you need to knock that out ASAP. Not not in twenty months, but like in a few months. What is your total household income? Clear after after what I put in my retirement pay and my health care insurance, stuff like that, I think I bring home I think it's like twelve hundred dollars a month just with my present my present job. I said in my monthly gathering of like 1500 almost to help your wife work outside the home.

Now she's down, OK? All right, well, the you know, that's the thing. I'm listed in the smallest to largest, and we'll pay them off in that order and of course, we teach you to temporarily stop retirement. And then how quick are you going to pay off the twelve thousand dollars remaining balance on your truck at your next goal? But I'm going to work it right straight down the line. That's an expense.

Wait a minute, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You need to sell is to sell the truck. Yeah. This truck, you owe too much. I mean, listen, when you own things with wheels and motors totaled up more than half your annual income, which you do, you've got a truck you can't afford even if it's paid off.

So, yeah, you need to move down in truck. That that's what I would do. Here's the thing.

It's very difficult to get ahead financially. You're you're a car guy. You're a motor guy. You're a gearhead.

You know, you don't think anything about buying a 12000 dollar lawnmower. And so, you know, I mean, this is the guy you are. So it's going to be difficult for you to get this your head around this, because I'm the same way I grew up. Everything has got a motor on it.

I love it, you know, and I want one of every one of them. I've never seen something that it can go, but in one that I didn't like, you know?

And so, you know, the problem is all those things go down in value and it's very difficult to build wealth when they're going down in value and.

You know, I always thought I could out earn that, I thought and you made some good money on the sports cars. That's good. I'm glad you're out of them, though. So, yeah, I that's what I would do. I'd move down in a truck and I don't know if you'll do it or not, but that's what you should do. That's what you should do. When I first heard this advice, I didn't do it.

First time I heard the advice, my grandfather who taught me to pull nails out of a board and straighten them out and put them in a coffee can because he lived through the Great Depression. I pulled up. I was high rolling. I thought I thought I'd be a, you know, roll up in a Jaguar in my grandpa's driveway. I'm making money doing real estate for I went broke in the real estate business and he's like, what's that?

That's a great granddad question. So we mean, what's that? He goes that he's pointing the car is a Jaguar and he knows what that cost.

And I mean this nineteen eighty three or eighty four, you know, thirty thousand bucks, you know, which is like Monáe 80000 on a car now. Right. And he said, you're kidding.

What's it do.

I said, well it's you know, it's a fine European vehicle that Tom made and you know, in. In England and, you know, so this is a you know, and he goes really? And he said and I said, and besides that, a car like this will hold its value. And he said, What do you mean? I said it'll hold its value and he goes one in 10 years, will it be worth? I said, well, maybe 20000 or maybe 15000 goes.

I said, that's like an investment. He goes, my investments go up grandads at the best. Just like pop, pop, pop, throw, punching me over and over again.

So finally, I'm just like, oh, he don't understand. He doesn't know anything. And of course, he started from nothing and had, you know, and didn't ever really invest, just save money. But but, you know, passed away as a millionaire with just money in CDs and coffee cans full of nails, you know.

And so but he's like this investment he got that had sideway like really my investments go up. That question from a granddad. What's that is what's that? You're an idiot. What's wrong with you? All rolled into one kind granddaddy question of passive aggressive Southern grandfather.

What's that like? That's fantastic.

What is wrong with you? Wrong with you, you idiot.

What's that? Brittanys in Daytona Beach. Hi, Britney. How are you?

I'm doing great. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. How can I help? So me and my husband got married in November twenty 19 and we I read the Total Money Makeover and we had our first budget meeting and I convinced my new husband to let me take over our finances.

Where did you read that in the Total Money Makeover? Well, to let me take over looking and we have our budget meetings to decide together, OK? All right.

That's OK. OK, you got it. You got to vote in the deal. I got you.

OK, I do. Yes. So we are working on paying off, doing the baby steps. And unfortunately, we have a small shovel. We've only paid off about eight thousand dollars this year using everything that we have left at the end of the month. And we've talked about moving for years. We've been together seven years and have talked about moving to Tennessee or North Carolina the whole time. Why making this better paying jobs up there in Daytona Beach where we have very, very low salaries, unfortunately, and we live together, only bring home about forty thousand annually.

What do y'all do? He works in medical records at the hospital and I am an office coordinator in oncology. OK. All right.

And so you're thinking about moving in what? We're thinking about moving to Tennessee. OK, but our whole family is here, and I just don't know if I can wrap my head around leaving everybody, OK? I don't think you need to move to Tennessee either.

I don't think because I think you've made an assumption. I don't agree with that. There are no good jobs in Daytona Beach, Florida. Right. Or in Orlando, 25 minutes away. So or whatever is probably not right, but it's close. And so I think you need to rethink your career choices and relook and start to believe in your area again. That area is not depressed to that point. So that's what I would do. This is the day, Ramzi.

Dr. John Boloney Ramsey personality is my co-host today in the Ramsey Solutions Law, a lobby on the debt free stage, and Nick and Alayna are with us. Hey, guys. Hey, where are you guys from? From Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and made the trip to Tennessee to do a debt free scream. Absolutely. In person. Well, welcome. Good to have you.

How much do you pay off? Paid off 95000 dollars awesomeness. And how long did this take? 19 months.

Whoa.

And your range of income during that time started 81000, then dropped a little bit when you switch jobs, and that ended at about 100000 dollars with all of our extra jobs we picked up. OK, so what do you do for a living?

So I actually just in between jobs right now, I was in accounting and I'm moving into commercial real estate.

OK. So and then I'm a software support specialist and I do marketing on the side. Very good. Very good.

What kind of debt was the 95000? So about 90000 of it was student loans. And then we had a 5000 dollar family car loan and the rest was medical. OK, yeah. So how did you clear that that fast?

I mean you must have been if you cash float all this, did you have money in savings you threw out it or something a little bit at the beginning.

But we were for the eight months before we got married, we live with our parents and we just didn't do much. And then when we got married, we did even less. But yeah, so just, you know, scorched earth and then really went after it. How long have you been married? About a year. Yep.

So we're down here celebrating our anniversary. My birthday is this weekend and being free and being debt free.

So celebrate a palooza. Yeah, absolutely. We go on like it. Very cool.

So you you did part of this as two singles and then part of it as a married couple.

Yeah. And you literally just lived on nothing. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Very, very slim all the time. We went out to eat with, we had gift cards or something like that but yeah. Yeah we picked up a lot of extra jobs and you were working two jobs at one point.

Babysitting at the church, marketing on the side. We were bodyguards and I, we like tough at high school football and basketball games as well as clean parking lots. Yeah. Yeah.

So and then we have the other side, we have a little furniture restoration business made a little Instagram, so I had fun with it and. Yeah.

So just what got you guys so fired up nineteen months ago.

Yeah. So my senior year of college I took a financial planning class as part of my dual major at school and the capstone to the class was to do a three, five and 10 year financial personal financial plan. And so I'm right in the intro to that and had some ideas and I'm bouncing them off and my dad and he's like, hey, you should do what Dave Ramsey quote at the beginning of it, I was like, OK, so, you know, put the quote If you live like no one else later you can live and give like no one else.

And, you know, had the promise of, you know, you got to live. You can't have that YOLO lifestyle when you're young and, you know, kind of kept that theme throughout the paper. So paper did well, got me on it. So that kind of got, you know, the fire underneath me. And I started to listen to the podcast nonstop and push it on to me.

And I was like, no, he sounds crazy. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I was way too overbearing. And then my parents church, when I was going there, I saw a few classes and like, oh, we're not getting engaged for a while. And I was like, might as well get plugged in here, take the class, cause we had some awesome family friends teaching it. I was like, might as well. And then we fell in love with it.

They were on fire ever since.

Oh my gosh. So Financial Peace University podcast and a college paper. Yeah. Get the whole thing started. I love it.

And you got an A because personal finance class with tenured professors, you use my name sometimes it goes against you. Yeah.

Yeah. Well I will say I did talk about some, you know, using credit cards and stuff like that, but I quickly learned to stay away from that. But you don't get you have to worry. I'm not going to get the credit card, OK? It's OK because you got your great. Well, congratulations. Yes. Thank you. What do you now that your financial peace university graduates, you've been listening a while, obviously, and did this incredible feat.

I mean, you know, the depth of your sacrifice in these numbers is very real. You really had no life. You had to have friends making fun of you.

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Family. Yeah. You thought you all were a pair of nuts. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You're crazy. Yeah, absolutely.

So what do you tell people?

The key to getting out of debt is you did it. Yeah, I would definitely say living on a budget and you know, having that why I'm a fan of science.

The next book start with why. And obviously, you know, you learn it in financial piece as well. It's just a dream together. Find out why you're doing what you want to do. And she definitely was the driver behind that.

Why she's I'm a giver. She's absolutely giving me. I can't wait to work, baby. Step seven. That's what I'm passionate about.

So, yeah, get get some tears in their eyes every time you watch that. Yeah. That last lesson about living given like no one else, because that's just, you know, over what we're doing this for us, very exciting air power couple.

I tell you what, at how old are you guys? 24. I'll be 25 on Saturday. So, yeah, sometimes somebody gets on the stage like this and all I can think to do is just get under the table here, just crawl under the table, just hide, just hide.

Because the 24 year old, you know, twenty nine year old me was super. Not this. The 34 year old me was considering this. Right.

I mean, what you guys have done to set yourselves up and when you hold your first baby and you you hold your first dog, you're going to have a different dog first.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What you have done is incredible, guys.

Well done, heroes. Very well done. Very, very proud of you. So who were your biggest cheerleaders?

Yeah. So we have our friends, Jake and Angela. They're watching their can't wait to get down here. They were original few coordinators and then we have well I coordinated a class at our church now. And so we have those that team behind us and then friends and family. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah.

And your dad who gave you the original idea to pull the quote? Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. He's he's been behind us on and I love it. He's the guy who actually gave us the car loan for me and I had the money. But during the class I was like, I don't want to pay it, I don't wanna pay it off. And then we were sitting on the couch and it's like, do you want me to tell you what Dave's going to tell you on Thursday?

Or do you want to just I'll let you do it. And I was like, OK, I'm going to do it. And the next day, I wrote his dad the check to pay off the rest of the car because I had the money and I was just the best feeling. I love it. The little ones like that. Yeah. Yeah, that's a big deal. Well, so cool, man. Good job. Good job. Well, we got a copy of Chris Hoggins book for you everyday millionaires.

We want that to be the next chapter in your story. And there's no question that's where you two are headed. Very well done, guys.

Way to go, heroes. All right, Nick.

And they line up Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Ninety five thousand dollars paid off at 24 years old.

One year anniversary man and happy birthday at nineteen months, Mike in eighty one to one hundred counted down.

Let's hear a debt free scream three to one. Why does. I love it. That is absolutely amazing.

Very, very well done, you guys. Very well done, Dave.

At this point, after my first year marriage, I don't think my wife could stand this close to each other, much less like on a stage.

It would have been a yeah, we've had a gap between us, man. I don't know. We were speaking much less able to come together like this great plan and definitely in sync.

And that's that is an indicator of where they're going as much as where they've come from.

I love it. It's just it's very, very, very well done.

I mean, and folks out there, all of our data points tell us that not only getting out of debt, but building a level of wealth and being in a position to be outrageously generous like she was talking about, there is this tremendously huge statistical correlation between the couple working together and being unified like that and and, you know, hitting these financial milestones.

It's all I almost never I won't say never, almost never hear a story of someone who became a millionaire, someone who paid off one hundred thousand dollars worth of debt and a drug their spouse the whole way. Yeah. Or they were pulling in two different directions the whole way, whatever. I just don't find that.

And so for some of your spouses that are kind of on the bubble, you know, you need to be unified even if you're unified. Hate me, that's OK. But you need to be unified on what you're doing because you're not going to you're not going to get there. But if you are unified, very few things can stop. You know that.

Nothing stopping these two. Nothing stopping these two. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Dr. John Boloney Ramsey personality is my co-host today here on the Dave Ramsey Show, open phones of eight eight two five five two two five. Our Question of the day comes from Blind's dot com. They have a 100 percent satisfaction guarantee, meaning if you miss measure, you picked the wrong color. They'll remake your window blinds for free. You get free samples, free shipping.

And with the new promos they run every month, you'll save even more. The promo code, the magic word, Ramsey promo code. Ramsey John.

Our question today's question comes from Michelle in Ohio. She visits Dave Ramsey dot com to ask, can you go over the differences between enabling somebody and helping somebody?

Hmm. That's a good, short, insightful question there. Mm hmm.

What do you think, Dave?

Well, I think you have the Ph.D. in counseling, but I've got an opinion. Of course I've got an opinion about everything I do.

I think enabling somebody is for you and helping them is for them. Enabling somebody paying somebody rent makes you feel good versus I'm trying to help somebody out of a spot that's going to actually benefit them in the long run. That's how that's just off top my head. What do you think? I think most enablers would think would have a hard time realizing they're doing it for themselves, right.

So, you know, you're doing it for you.

Well, I'm not doing this for me. I'm doing it to help him.

And so, you know, the thing I always think about when enabling is the classic, giving a drunk a drink.

Are you participating in their misbehavior, causing it? You look at it on the back end, causing it to continue.

Are you are you are you, like, joining up for crazy?

And if you're participating in their misbehavior, then you're a helicopter mom coming in, the kids misbehaving in your own home. You know, you're saying, well, the teachers are armed, you know, versus my house where I grew up. The teacher was never wrong, even when they were never right.

Even if the teacher was a toxic abuser, they were on my parents team, you know, it was like so, you know, there's just no chance that you could have a helicopter parent coming out of my house. So which is good. I mean, but versus. And so. When you're enabling, you really are not helping, and if you'll stop and realize that, then it'll help you not be an enabler, right. And when I have been when I have been in a situation and I'll tell you the other thing is there's something about enabling.

I think it's harder to help.

And requires more effort, emotional energy and time than it does to enable more intentionality.

Yeah, it's kind of like the gash down on the side of the road. Well, you know, we'll work for food, OK?

It's hard. To put the guy in a car and take him and have him cut grass and then pay, right then it is just give him some money, right? And if you just give him some money, you're probably really, you know, participating in something that that is not helpful.

Whereas if you take me out, teach him skill. Yeah. If he really just needs food, take him out of the restaurant, buy more food. Right. And of course, you know, we all know the story. Sometimes you find out that when what they're after and whether they're just running, they're just running that corner. That's their corner. But aside from that, are you really helping?

And it's almost a cheap you're cheap out when you're enabling. It's easier, quicker. I'll just throw some money at it right outside out of mind and I'll just throw some whatever at it.

So if you are participating in things that at the end of the story have caused them harm.

Which kind of got a pan back and do that and, you know, you sit down with somebody, they come to you and say, you know, I need money, money, money for rent y and you dig into it.

You also got a drug problem. So when you pay the rent, basically you bought the drugs. Right.

So you've got it's harder to take that person by the hand, lead them into a 12 step group, you know, go pay for their counseling.

Right. Or they're coaching or whatever they need to pay for the rehab. It's harder to do that.

And I'm assuming all things are equal with the money, you know, but but it just takes more effort.

And, you know, I found this also to be true about giving just your generosity. It takes more effort to do giving, right? That's right. That's going to actually have a demonstrable effect to help people in the long term and not just be a Sivewright, you know.

So these aren't real. That's none of that's a real good. Clinical definition or even not even a clear definition. What is just observation? And I think you and I are coming at it just once on the front, ones on the back is like, what's this money? What's this money? What's this opportunity? What's this what's this thing you're you're giving somebody what's what's the fruit going to be after you plant the tree? And I like to look up front if somebody asks me for money.

OK, let me give an example. How does this play into your definition? OK. My friend who mishandles money and that's their only sin, right? They're just disorganized, impulsive, immature, and they call up and go, you know, I need 200 dollars. Mm hmm. I said, no. You know, if I say, yeah, you're doing it right. I'm an enabler. There you go. OK, if I don't and I say, listen, I'll give you two hundred dollars, but only if you're enrolled in Financial Peace University.

Only after I look at your budget with you and only after you agree to stop these behaviors that are causing you to be broke in the first place. Right. One's an enabler. One's a helper. Same amount of money. And I don't know how to describe the difference in those two.

I would if I just gave him a hundred dollars.

How's that about me? Because you can it's dismissive, it gets you out of you don't have to have the hard conversation of saying, no, I don't want to do emotionally lazy. Right. Or it feels good that somebody comes to me because I've taken care of my business.

The way you describe that, I think you can you've got to be careful because it can be judgmental, which is somebody ask you for two hundred dollars. I'm going to read into why you need it, what you haven't done and what you're going to do with it versus a man. I'll just help you out. Yeah. And sometimes I will go too far down the road and saying, oh, you don't have to. All because of this, because of this, because of this.

Sometimes just eating our bucks. But I think you should come in front is I'm going to say I don't have a hard conversation with you. I just give money to you. I don't want to to drop.

That's exactly right. And that all comes back to intentionality.

And that's that is real love. Right. Is actually caring enough about them to not not necessarily be judgmental and confront every issue, but just start asking too much a question. That's why are you here? And then you're starting to ascertain, am I really helping or am I funding crazy? That's exactly right, because we're enabling you're almost always funding some kind of crazy, some kind of dysfunction, some kind of misbehavior, some kind of toxic. The kid misbehaving, the helicopter.

Mom, you're funding it, right?

Then sometimes people get in a bind and they just need some help. Yeah. And I don't mind doing that. That's exactly right.

But that I think you I mean, we're saying it over and over, but just be intentional and get involved. Yeah.

Ask that extra question. Hey, what happened? Are you doing OK?

Is there a bigger thing that can be supportive of what else what else is going on in your world that the 28 year old that lives in his mother's basement and games all day long and won't get a job right?

Mom, mom is an enabler, an absolute enabler. And so because she's participating in allowing him to not become who got designed him to be and how that helps her is she has to keep her baby around.

She gets to not have a hard conversation. She gets to not do the hard parent job of constructing boundaries and holding them up, holding them firm. Right. And so this whole thing just protects her, her fantasy world. And she just keeps perpetual right down this down the street.

I have never thought about it until today. In this way, that enabling is emotionally lazy.

Mm hmm. You your character lazy.

It's just not investment. Other people are not willing to, you know, to do or do the stuff that's good for them. And so you just you throw something, you know, you you just allow it or even ask the that.

Next question. The next question. How are you. It's just it's it's easy. It's emotionally lazy. It's character lazy. It's it's spiritually lazy. It's yeah. It just treats a person as a transaction instead of a relationship. Yeah.

It's not really loving. No, absolutely not.

At the end of the day it's just as you didn't love them enough to help them to truly get into what's going on in your heart. Yeah.

You know your lives in your basement and they have absolutely no ambition and you still do there. You still make their clothes failure to launch a movie, you know, that kind of stuff. You still wash their clothes, you still cook their meals. They don't pay anything. They basically are operating emotionally to a fourteen year old level and they're a full time gamer down there, you know? I mean, it's just that that's, you know, what you have done is you have done it.

The emotional growth of your kid.

Right.

By allowing this, it's so my friends know when they call me for help, there's going to be the first in line. Yeah.

But they also know they're going get a whole bunch of questions. How are you? You doing OK? What's going on for kids. OK, why are we here. Yeah. How are we not going to be here again. I love you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. If I'm going to help you, I don't want you to have to be here again because otherwise I was in an airport there you. Wow. It's a good question.

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