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[00:00:25]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Carletto Studio, this is the Dave Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your. I'm Chris Hoggett and hosting along with me this hour is Dr. John Villone, and we are ready for you. I want you to pick up the phone and call us and talk to us about what's on your mind. If it's life, if it's stress, if it's relationships, if it's money, we're here for you.

[00:00:53]

And I'm joined here, as I said, with Dr. John Delany. Are you caffeinated? I'm ready to rock and roll today, man. All right. You seem extra hyper, which really makes me nervous because I don't know what you're going to do.

[00:01:08]

I don't either, to be honest with you. I'm still figuring out how all this works, but I'm having fun and I have the proper amount of caffeine in my body. Christopher.

[00:01:14]

Well, that's a good thing. Call me Christopher one more time and we will fight. All right. Listen, I want to tell you something, and this is exciting because seriously, you have jumped in. You've been joining the show. You've been on here. But my friend, the time has come that you now have the Dr. John Boloney show. Yes, the podcast launched this morning. And it is it for a guy who spent the last decade trying to disappear from the Internet, from public, anything.

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Man, the the amount of people, the the zeros and ones, folks, the numbers guys tell me that the the subscriptions and downloads are just out of control. It's awesome. It's going well. So now we are out there, man.

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It is there. So talk to me. What what is the show about. It's a live caller driven show, just like very much like the Dave Ramsey Show. Folks call in with life challenges, with questions about the relationships or parenting or the mental health issues, or just annoying neighbors in that moronic PTA mom who used to just be in the PTA meetings. And now she zoomed right in your living room, rather, she's in your house. So whatever's going on in your life, we're taking live calls and helping people get to tomorrow and to get well and to make good decisions in the short term and long term.

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I know obviously you are always going to have fun and you're going to bring wisdom, but people are calling in with some tough stuff, my friend.

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It has been real heavy. There is a lot of darkness, a lot of people struggling. A lot of marriage is on the brink or over. A lot of people trying to come back from infidelity, trying to come back from making bad financial choices, from anxiety and depression. And they've just been on meds for years and years and they just want another another set of years. That another idea for how they can deal with some of these just tough, tough challenges people are dealing.

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Wow.

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Well, listen, if you're out there and get life, no one is immune to life. It either happens to you, near you or next to you. And the good thing is, is that you don't have to do it alone if you're out there. I want you to go ahead and put this contact inside your phone. It is the doctor, John Deloney show. The email address was asked John at Ramsey Solutions dot com. Let me say that again, because this is new, folks.

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It's Ask John at Ramsey Solutions dot com, or you can also leave a voicemail. And I want to say this number clearly, John, you need to commit this number to memory. It is eight four four six nine three three two nine one. That's eight four four six nine three three two nine one. Go ahead and make a contact inside of your phone, the doctor John Deloney show. I'm excited for you, my friend. I know you are serious about this and trying to help people cut through the chaos of anxiety, depression, disconnection and just a life happening.

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And you don't have to do it alone. And as a king of isolation, I am a I'm a professional. Oh, Isolator asked me to man.

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I and I am the king of withdrawal. Yeah. And so it is so important to be able to reach out to communicate about the things that's on your heart, in your head, just so you get clarity. And the crazy thing is, John, is that I know without a shadow of a doubt, when you get clarity, you can get some traction. That's right.

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And things can start to move. So as I tell people, you're not stuck, you just stopped. And don't stop believing, don't stop reaching. And most importantly, don't stop connecting. That's right. That's talking to people that can give you some guidance. And I know you are serious about this. Let people know your background, John. And what what what puts you in a position to be able to help people here?

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I've been working in student affairs, in an education for the last goodness, almost twenty years now.

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And a big chunk of that has been in crisis moments. Yeah.

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Working with folks who the wheels have just completely fallen off. I've done weddings and funerals and worked with suicides and death notifications and I have celebrated engagements and new marriages. And so it's just been the breath of working with people in their best moments. And there what I do next moments and in the absolute worst crisis moments, they can.

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I've also spent some time working with police departments after hours helping train police departments, memorium, SWAT team before. So doing some really wild stuff. And I got a couple of PhDs. It's just a big deal to me to spend time with people. I'm an introvert, I'm a nerd. And so this whole new world is exciting and we're having a blast. And I want to take this. Chris and man, you were the best deflector, I know, but since I got here, you've been such a a hospitable guy, you've been such a gift.

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You've got 15 years of of doing this. And you've just been a great teacher to me and a mentor already and saying, hey, honey, I don't ever want to say that in public again.

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Wow. Is that how you're dressed and alone? So I'm blushing. You're just such a blessing.

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I want to think, you know, Kelly and James, who've been running Dave's show for years and years and years, they stepped up and they are working extra time to get my show up and running and taking calls and making sure the board runs Bobbie and Kyle and that crew back there.

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So I'm just grateful everybody's support and help and look forward to getting this thing going.

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Well, you're welcome, my friend. You're an easy guy to be able to work with. Have fun with you on air. But in reality, as we talk about this money and life and we talk about this and understanding that if you're out of balance on one of those, the other can be affected and impacted. And the goal is for us to Push-Pull or drag ourselves to get better. And so whenever you think you've arrived, that's where you can potentially begin to backslide.

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So let's do this. Let's all have our game on. Let's all have this mindset of how do I get better? And even if it's a dealing with the relationship with your in-laws or dealing with a sibling or dealing with aging parents or a money issue, just do me a favor. Don't do it alone. Isolating is dangerous. Compartmentalizing is unhealthy. Being able to unpack that, talk about the things that are on your head and your heart, and more importantly, to be able to do it in a safe place with someone that cares.

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And so, John, I'm very excited for your show, excited for the help you're going to continue to give people. And listen, if you're out there, know this. We are here for you. I want you to make sure you get this number down triple eight eight to five five two two five. That's the number to call. Kelly is standing by, ready to take your call, ready to dive in and talk about the things that are on your mind.

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Also, social media wise, you can harness down. Now, John has about twelve followers on social media. He's brand new. He didn't know what the Internet was. I just showed him how to use a microwave not long ago. But here's the reality. We got to bump up this man's followers. I want you to find him on social media at John Boloney. You can find him on Facebook, YouTube as well as Instagram. Hunt him down, send some social media questions.

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You can find me as well. Oh, look at you. You're got videos up on the Instagram. I'm so proud of you. And your daughter posted those for you. I know she's four and a half and she's already better. She can do it. But you can also find me at Chris Hogan 360, Instagram and all the places we want to be able to talk to you and reach out. Understand that you are not alone. I don't care if you're in Nebraska and you're the only person inside that home, you're not alone because we're in this thing together.

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It's called life. And this is the Dave Ramsey Show where you can reach out and we're going to talk about it. So when you come back, we're going to jump to the phones. We're going to find out what's on your mind. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. I keep hearing stories from people on my team telling me how much they love honey. One of my developers, Brandon, told me he uses it all the time. The browser extension I've been telling you to download always tells him if he has the best deal on Amazon and he gets the e-mails every time there's a price drop.

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He said he doesn't even know how much it saved him, but it's more than he paid for it, which is free. So listen to Papa Dave. Download honey for free. Join honey dot com slash Dave.

[00:09:34]

Hello, everyone. This is the Dave Ramsey Show on Chris Hogan and hosting along with me this hour is Jon Bellone and we are excited to take your calls. The number to call is eight eight eight eight two five five two two five. Again, that's triple eight eight two five five two two five. We're excited to be able to take your call. All right. We're going to get to the phone. We've got Maritsa on the line in Chicago.

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Marisa, how are you? Hi, good. Thank you so much for taking my call. Yes, ma'am. How can we help you today? OK, so my question is, I'm 50, almost 38 years old, and I'm trying to do some financial planning. And I look at all the other. I look at all the options for long term care insurance, and I don't really like any of them, but what do you think? What do you think of the hybrid life insurance that can be used as long term care insurance?

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I'm looking at a policy there that's the only type of long term care that interests me. Do you think of that policy?

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All right. Now, before we plug into that, hold on a second. You're 58 years old. Do you already have life insurance? Yes, so I don't need it for the life insurance part, I was looking for the long term care part.

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OK, so had you applied for long term care? No, but I don't like the whole theory of the prices going up every year without you knowing it and escalate. Yes, uncontained, but I never applied for it. And I don't want to get a long term care policy.

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OK, did you but did you get pricing on a potential policy? No, not long to I get I get pricing on the hybrids, like last year. Yes.

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OK, but the life insurance that you currently have right now, you've had it. How long?

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Like 15 years. OK, and what insurance and what term policy did you get at that time? Long term policy, could I get. How long of a term did you get the insurance 15 years ago? Did you get a 15 year, 20 or 30 year? I just want to hear, OK, my kids are now 24, but when it last is, it's done, OK. OK, so here's why I'm asking the long term care as you look and you're coming up at that age where you want to have that in place by age 60, I tell people literally by 59 and a half you want to be applying to get that, because if you become incapacitated, obviously you have the coverage it's going to take take over for you.

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But here's the flip side of this. You've got five years left on the on the term life insurance in place. I want you to get a quote, Maritsa, on get on the long term care policy on its own to figure out what it is, because the goal is, is you want money to be able to take care of you if you get inside of a nursing home without having to liquidate certain assets. So go ahead and get the policy.

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I would talk to you about the hybrid if and only if you weren't able. Right. You didn't qualify for long term care. So I look at it as a backup option, not as a primary. So I still want you to get a quote on a long term care policy. Leave in your term in place. You've got adult children. So there are 24. You said you've got five more years to be able to cover them. Remember, the goal of insurance is to protect you if life were to happen.

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So if something were to happen to you, you've got X, Y, Z, dollar amount coming in to be able to take care of the kids. The long term care insurance is on the flip side where you don't die, but you become incapacitated or need assisted living and the percentages increase by the time you hit age 60. So go to Dave Ramsey Dotcom, click on the insurance l.p. Get with one of our insurance options, walk through and talk through it and look at it.

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The hybrid policies again are the fallback if you don't qualify for long term care. So it's really important to see the numbers, understand what it covers and what it is and what it's not. The idea of you giving up your current life insurance policy to start over. Well, your premiums are going to go up. You're 58 years old, right? You got this other policy in place back when you were 43. So the cost of the insurance, it could become cost prohibitive is what I'm saying.

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So be able to get a quote on the long term care policy to be able to look at that. And then you can start to look at a hybrid on the back side of it. But it's really important to cover herself.

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I didn't know you had to apply for long term care. So what would what would disqualify you that previous medical conditions?

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You could have a previous medical condition. You could have high blood pressure by the time you hit sixty and you start applying for it. The premiums, if you're over the age of 60, they almost double for long term care, long term care. So that's why we're adamant about people getting it in place at before age sixty or by age sixty. OK, and then, of course, life insurance. We talk about this. So we're blue in the face, but we have so many people that are underinsured.

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You want to get ten to 12 times your annual income in term life insurance. So if you make fifty thousand a year, that means you're going to be looking at getting 500 to 600000 in term life insurance. But here's the deal, John. A lot of people don't understand. If you have term life insurance coverage and something happens to you, you have that dollar amount coming into the family. OK, so if you had 500000 in coverage and you passed away, that 500000 is going to come into the family.

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Right. Allows them to continue to walk through the baby steps and do what's necessary. And so it's just so important and a lot of people will have coverage through their job. That's not the coverage you want that life insurance is not portable. What what I mean by that is if you lose or leave the job, we have 52 million people unemployed right now. You've also lost that that coverage. And so that's why you want to get term life insurance outside of your job.

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So if you lose that job, leave or go start a business, you still have coverage. There you go. And it's so important. So life insurance, go to Dave Ramsey, dot com, click on their insurance LP and they'll be able to guide you. All right. Here we go. Let's get on line one. We got Michael in Nashville. Michael, how are you?

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Hey, Chris. Dr. Day, it's an honor to speak with you. Well, thank you. I have a question. So I'm fairly new to Dave Ramsey plan. I started about four months ago. I've been hitting it hard recently. I currently have a Roth IRA with about twenty thousand dollars in it, and I have a 457 deferred compensation plan through my law enforcement job at work. And that has about twelve thousand dollars in right now. Mm hmm.

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My question is, since recently, since starting this plan, I've learned that while on baby step two, I'm supposed to stop all investing until I get my debt paid off. My question is because my 457 plan, there's no fees associated with taking that money out other than paying the taxes, which I would have to anyway when I retire with that money. Should I go ahead and take that money out to pay off my debt with the 457 plan, not the Roth IRA?

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OK, Michael, what's your household income by household income between me and my wife is about a hundred thousand dollars. OK, and talk to me about the debt you have I currently have about. Seventy thousand and that it's a little bit of everything, student loans, personal loans, credit cards, how much of it is student loan debt?

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About I think it's around 35. OK, and how much of it is credit card? About 10000 on how many cards?

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Three. OK, all right, so here's the mindset around this. You are absolutely right for someone that's just jumped in and have been drinking the Kool-Aid for four months. I love that you got the principal of your pausing. The investing and pausing means I'm just going to hit the pause button because now I want to redirect my income toward attacking this debt. All right. I also like that you're thinking about, hey, worth some extra money I could use to help accelerate this, right?

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OK, here's what you don't want to do, you don't want to stop that money in the 457 from growing, OK, that's like you wouldn't in a bush and then wait three months to go outside and yank it up by the roots to see if it's growing right. You'd kill it. You were going to kill the compound. Growth happening, Michael, if you pull money out of that 457. So instead, my friend, leave that there.

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Leave it alone. But. Right. I wouldn't contribute any more. I'm going to pause that and direct the money toward it. But I want you to use the debt snowball. That's where we're going to list the debts out, smallest to biggest. And you're going to start to attack it in that way. I would much rather you look for ways to earn extra income to throw at that debt, but please don't pull it out. And you're referring, Michael, to the CARUS Act.

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Good old DC.

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Washington, DC. They're going to save us crinoline. They're not either, buddy. That's a false stop spreading lies. Listen, we've got to help ourselves. People get your own kaip. And so they said with the Kahrizak that you can pull money out of retirement accounts and there's no more 10 percent penalty. But Michael did know you do have to pay the income taxes over the next two years. Let's not tap Uncle Sam on the shoulder. Let's not start that drama.

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Leave it alone. Let it sit there.

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Now, if he, Michael, had money that was in an account that was not retirement related, the Roth is retirement related, 457 retirement related just to savings accounts. Not right. Or just if he had some single stock somewhere, I'd say absolutely liquidate them and throw him toward the debt. But there's no reason to steal from your future to clean up your present. Right. Leave it alone, Michael. Get intense. Nobody walk these steps. You didn't get in debt overnight, so you're not going to get out of debt overnight.

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But you can if you stay focused. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. One of the questions I get all the time is which life insurance company should I use for my term life policy? Look, it can be a tough decision when there are hundreds of plans out there with rates all over the place and rip off riders. That's why the only company I use and have recommended for over 20 years is Zander Insurance. They're a broker, which means that they shop only the top plans from reputable companies that I recommend.

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Call them at 800 three, five, six, 42, 82, or visit Zander Dotcom for instant online quotes. Hello, everyone. You are listening to the Dave Ramsey Show and a few callers ago we were talking to Maritsa about long term care insurance and I had some follow up questions that people asking, hey, what all does it cover? So here's the deal. Long term care covers nursing home assisted living facilities, in-home modifications.

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In case you needed a ramp or something like that. Adult daycare is also something else that can fall within it. And then care coordination where if you're needing nurses or nursing assistants and things of that nature, so long term care becomes something that as we get older, we want to plan for and be intentional about. Why? Because you've worked hard to build this legacy. Now it's a matter of protecting it. And that's what I talk about in my book, Retire Inspired.

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This was my first one, that it's important that we play offense as well as defense. And the offensive side is obviously building our wealth and building our net worth. The defensive side is to make sure that we're protecting it and that's what insurance is do. So having the right kinds of coverages on your home, your auto, but as well as life insurance and then long term care. So it's an area to really check out. There are a lot of articles on Dave Ramsey Dotcom as well as Chris Hogan 360 dot com.

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It's good to know. All right.

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Well, before we go to that, this is a glimpse. This is more of a personal glimpse inside the Deloney household. But several years ago, my mom and dad sat me down and said, hey, for Christmas, this year we got long term care insurance for everybody, for ourselves. And it was real expensive. And it was, you know, my dad being a former homicide detective and my mom, you know, being a professor, getting to see things don't maybe fall apart.

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They eventually will. Right. Things will happen. And so it was expensive, but it was a gift of them saying we're going to invest right now and we're going to make this purchase because we don't want you all to be stuck with payments of, you know, putting us in a hospital for extra time or in nursing homes or whatever. So it was a great gift for us. And I underestimated Chris the exhale after I estimated what I had been carrying around with mom does this.

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I don't have any, you know, on the money right now, it's our debt just when they did that for us. So moms and dads out there, I want you to know as a kid and I was in my mid 30s or early 30s, it was such a gift, such a blessing that they they gave it for Christmas. It was cooler than any, you know, appliance. They could have got us something like that.

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Well, it's funny you bring that up, because I think when I was doing the research with return inspired the first two figures, the first four with retirement is fear of running out of money. The second one was the thing that blew me away.

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It was fear of becoming a burden to family and friends, because if you can't pay for the things yourself, it's going to fall to family.

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That's right. Or the friends to take care of you. And so, you know, I like how you're viewing it as this thing they did for them. But ultimately, it was a gift to you and your siblings. Oh, absolutely it was. And so do me a favor. If you're out there and your parents are older or you're wondering if your grandparents have things in place, do me a favor. Don't wonder. Ask, just simply ask.

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And I think it's a matter of money is one of these things that can be so personal that we won't ask. But do me a favor. I love them enough to ask and say, hey, this is Ball Dude on the show, along with another guy that's got a lot of hair. They were talking about this stuff, this life insurance or this X, Y, Z. Do you have it? I'm just curious or find an article and forward it to them.

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I want you to be comfortable having uncomfortable conversations with the people you love the most just so you can know. And you don't have that question rattling around in your head, Chris.

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What you just put on the table would free millions of people if they would do it, if they would call mom and dad and say not today, but next week, I'm going to call you and I'm going to ask you a couple of knuckleheads on the radio. I'm going to ask you about if you get life insurance and they ask you about your will, long term care, just want to know because the uncomfortable truth that we all need to wrestle with is a hundred percent of us die.

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Oh, yeah. One hundred percent of us even we got kids. We got cool things we want to. Right. We all go out in a box. Right. So let's reverse engineer that and let's be honest with ourselves, with our loved ones. Chris, if every family in the country would do what you just did, kids would call their parents and say, hey, let's talk about life insurance and you have a will. And the mom and dad would say it's a great idea.

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We need to do that.

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Let's set up a time next Saturday, we'll do a Zoome call or whatever, or they say, you know what, we don't and don't know where to start. That's right. You can give them information. Here's what holds up things. Here's what it is, John. If you ask what the spirit of what's in it for me as opposed to what's in it. And you're helping your family.

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Yes. Agreed. Yes. Well, I just want to know if you got things in place, if you have a will and what am I getting like the wrong spirit to go about it? That's right. And you can you can smell that spirit over the flesh. You can smell that spirit 100 miles away. Don't do that. Do it. Because if your parents have a. They'll sleep better. It's good. Oh, man, here we go, we've got a blond's dotcom question, blonde's dotcom.

[00:25:10]

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[00:25:34]

All right. I'm going to read this one because this one's for you. Today's question comes from Tom in Indiana. He visits Dave Ramsey Dotcom to ask I am about to finish baby step three in a month or two ago, Tom. And looking forward to moving up the ladder. I know you're supposed to invest 15 percent of your income towards your retirement. Yes. However, I work for the railroad and they pull around 11 percent of each of my checks towards my pension.

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Do I include those pension payments in my 15 percent? Looking for your advice?

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Oh, OK. What was his name? His name was Tom. Tom. Yes. Because they're taking the 11 percent from your check to put towards your pension. That's that's counting toward the 15. So what you have to do now is add an additional four percent and then you'll be at 15 percent. John, this is when it would be not true if it were a company match that he were getting. OK, I don't count the company match.

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So if the company was matching six and he's doing six. Right. A lot of people say, oh, well, that's 12. No, it's not. I want you to do 15 percent of your income because the company could stop the match at any time. I want you flexing the muscle or doing 15 percent of your own money. So, Tom. Yes, my friend, your 11 percent would count toward the 15. You need to do another four percent.

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You're at 15 percent. Stay the path.

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What about all of the pension nonsense going on in the country? Is it safer to put your money in a pension or to put it in a growth stock mutual fund?

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Well, here's the reality. If you're if you're if you're not watching the show on YouTube, Chris just got a little bit animated. Well, here's the reality and here's the deal. Pensions are going away, right? Pensions were the things that you did where you came and worked in companies said, hey, we're going to take care of you later. You just focus and do your job. We're putting some money aside for you. Once you hit that number of years of service, your money is going to start to come to you.

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OK, well, those those things went away in the 80s. And so now what it is, is it's on us with four one case and forward three B's to see for ourselves. So if you're fortunate enough to have a pension, that's a good thing. But you need to be aware of what's it invested in and how it works. The other thing I tell people is at the end of that years of service, if they offer you your pension in a lump sum, I want you to take it and run go because you can invest it on your own better than how they are.

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And I think the temptation is to let somebody else handle all of your business. Right.

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Well, you want to get a guide. I mean, don't get me wrong. If my car needs an oil change, I can do. OK, that's a lie that years ago I could now I have no idea what I'm doing. I can change the tires, but all I can do. But you want to get someone to guide you. And that's where we talk about smart Vestel pros to be able to walk you through this process so you know what you're dealing with.

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Love it. All right, here we go. We're going to get back to the phones here in just a bit, but I want you to call us. The number to call is eight eight eight eight two five five two two five. Again, that's triple eight eight to five five to five refineries that Ramsey Show. OK, here's a question for you, John. I want you to ask this before we go to break. Juliar from the Ramsey Baby Steps community, which, by the way, if you haven't plugged into there, you need to.

[00:28:39]

She says, how do I tell my sister to set boundaries with our mom? My sister's 32 and has never moved out. Sounds like we got some sibling bitterness.

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That's right. It sounds like mom's the one that needs to have some boundaries. Not sister, sister. 32 year old sister has one life. She gets free rent free food. She gets a maid. She gets to take care of everything. The conversation Julie needs to have is with her mother and say, Mom, you have a grown woman living in your house. That's not you. It's time for your sister to move out that you're putting it on.

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The mom at mom's are the grown ups, is all I'm saying. Parents be parents. Parents be parents aren't alone. You're so feisty. All right, listen, this man's got to show caffeinated. I might have a family question like that. Would you want to hit him with ASCAME at John at Ramsey Solutions dot com or call his show eight four four six nine three thirty to ninety one. You're listening to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hello, everyone.

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You are listening to the Dave Ramsey Show, I'm Chris Hogan hosting. Along with me this hour is John Deloney. And we're having a blast taking your calls, talking about life and money. All right, here we go. We're going to get to the phones because we've got people got questions. Tyler from Denver, how can we help you, my friend? Hey, Chris. Hey, John, thanks for taking my call. So I'm on baby step two currently been dealing with that for about the past four or five months.

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My predicament I'm in as I have a fifth wheel trailer that I purchased new in twenty seventeen that I was using for my job. And I no longer need it, but it is my most sizable debt style I think. Eighty seven thousand dollars on that.

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Goodness gracious.

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Yes. It's a fancy fifth wheel my man.

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What does it do it do for myself.

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Eighty seven. OK, hold on. How much did you buy it for. So that's the thing, I had owned a trailer previously, and as you know, they depreciate like it's no tomorrow. So I rolled, you know, having not heard Dave oh, I rolled the balance of my old one into the new loan.

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I got you.

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I got this was like I knew it would be wheeler dealer.

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You know, I, I got into it for about one hundred and ten, nonet eighty seven.

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OK, what do you think this one is worth. Well, so that's my kicker. I could sell it right now for somewhere between 40 and 50 thousand. Goodness.

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OK. Which either way, it's you're still you're looking at a at a thirty seven to forty two thousand dollars shortfall, right?

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Exactly. And I guess my question was, do I have a personal loan and some fleece, as they would call it, that are the two before the trailer? I didn't know if I should continue to pay on it, even though it's depreciating, you know, and I don't have the different sitting in my bank account. And I know, you know, the the talk is to not take out another loan. I'm just kind of stuck. Don't know how to deal with it.

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Yeah. Tell me this.

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What, what, how much is the payment on this. Fifth will be six hundred dollars a month. OK, and what's the interest rate. You know, four percent.

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OK, 600 says it finance for like one hundred eleven years. Yes, I think it's I think it took a 15 year note on it. Yeah. Is this from through a bank or credit union? It's through a bank.

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OK, because your rate is really low on it. Are they? They're holding the title on this thing to correct. At OK. All right, talk to me at the least, what what what what is this? What size truck you got to pull this thing. Well, no. So I you know, I started I sold my Duli truck that I had and I took out a lease on a little less on safety for the wife and the kid.

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What have you. Jill, I mean, I think I do another two years on that before it's up. And then I have a twelve thousand dollar personal loan that I'm almost done taking care of. What was the personal use for? Don't tell me personal stuff.

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Me, them with my money.

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All right. I used it to, you know, consolidate credit card debt. You still have those credit cards.

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No, so I actually I was just in the past five months, I've been down almost fifty thousand dollars in debt. I didn't ask you that.

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I said all those credit cards still in your wallet. No, they're gone. I'm 100 percent credit card debt free. You cut them up, close them, got them up, close them no more.

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All right, here's the deal. I like your mindset. What caused what's causing you to get to this change? Why are you shifting shifting gears now? Then when I looked at, you know, I started listening to Dave, looked at the dead and it was, I think, one hundred and fifty 160000. Yeah, well, you know, many months ago and I said, it's got to stop. So I like I say, we're making a lot of progress.

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I'm just I don't know if I should save the trailer to last, you know, be in the baby step program. Right. Or try and take care of it now.

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OK, Tyler, what's your household income about? One hundred and thirty thousand. OK, you're both working. No, just me. OK, here is the mindset around this. Look at, you know, obviously I want you to be able to attack these and we tell people that Snowbowl Small is the biggest here. As you get to this fifth, will this that this thing's going to be a behemoth because you had rolled in the other one along with this?

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OK, and so here's here's the suggestion. I would suggest you reach out to your bank and find out what they might do unsecured. I don't think it's going to work. I'm a former banker. Banks love to be able to have collateral. That means they got security on something. But what would they do if you got international you got this lease out of your life, right? You got intentional. You got this personal loan out. And if you were to sell this thing and if it was worth 50 right now you're talking about trying to get a thirty seven thousand dollar loan, you can have the conversation with them.

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This may be one of them, the levels of stupid tax where you just got to dig in and pay this thing off. Like, unfortunately, because of the Rolet, it's almost exactly to the dollar what the role is.

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You could sell it and be, Scott. That's right.

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Which is why we advise people. And again, I'm not here to beat him up. I want him to hear it. And I want other people out there listening to understand don't roll stuff in these car lots and these other places. They love for you to come on in and they'll tell you everything's going to be OK. I want us to start to think. All right ahead so Tyler, you can reach out to that bank, find out what amount they would do on a personal loan for you.

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Odds are you're probably going to have to just put your chin down, get get focused and attack this thing. And that's looking for ways to bring in extra income. That's looking for ways to really dig in on this. I like the path that you're on, and I don't want this to defeat you. This is just one of those lessons you look at. You go, oh, if I could just go back. Right. And you can't.

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We all want to. But I tell people, you can glance back, but you got to focus forward, baby. And that means digging in and get intentional on attacking it for that role in. And I'll tell you, John, this happens a lot in car loans, car loans, big time where they'll say, hey, you owe this on it. It's only worth this. Here's what we'll do. We'll roll this into your new loan.

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And now they have nine year car loans that, you know, that nine year because people don't know how to count.

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We only go by payment. And so they'll say, hey, it's just it's just, you know, just just, you know, one hundred and twenty seven thousand easy payments of 295 and people go just to ninety nine. Ninety five.

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They didn't hear the one hundred twenty seven thousand part nine years ago was for jobs in two states ago for me, nine years.

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I mean seriously, when you sit down and sign nine years, a decade of your life away for a depreciating asset.

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Yeah.

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And you willingly say, I'm going to pay you ten thousand dollars more than it's worth because you're doing me such a great gift of taking the old thing from me.

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Well, see, you're doing the math now. You've learned that's just math, but that's not even emotion being normal. It's just a matter of the payment. And so I tell people don't live based off payment. What you have to do is we've got to learn to do the math outright. And so looking at this, you know, you don't want to roll in a car loan with another car. You want to pay the car off and drive that bad boy.

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But this is one of those things where you kind of get handcuffed. Yeah. And so, Tyler, dig in, talk. Let's get this leaks out of your life. Let's get this personal loan paid off and then begin to kind of really turn your attention toward this fifth wheel and talk to the bank, have a conversation. The other option is this. Once you talk to the bank, if they won't do anything, check with the credit union to see.

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But again, it's the collateral zation. They want the title to this thing. They're not going to let it go. So you get it intentionally, you get it down, maybe down to 20000 that's owed outright. You may be able to do that. But don't do me a favor. No more consolidation, OK? No more rolling things. Then think about it.

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Even the word consolidation con solve.

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I never heard of that. Oh yeah. No, it's fake.

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Just ask yourself before you buy a car if you're about to buy a car for 20 grand and you owe another one and they say, hey, we'll just roll your one into it, would you have bought that car for 30 grand. No, that's too expensive.

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That's right. It's too expensive. You're not going to go that route. So I want you just to start to think clearly, keep your eyes open and know exactly what it is. And as I tell people, you want to make two year decisions, you want to make a decision that you look back on in two years and you're glad that you made it. I get that requires us to reach up and look out a little bit, but we can do it.

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I can almost guarantee you that wherever you think you'll be in nine years, you won't be and you probably won't be where you are right now.

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That's a good point. We got options, though. Remember, you're not stuck. You just stop. People keep pushing and keep driving. I want to thank producer James Child associate producer Kelly Daniel and of course, all of you for tuning in. This has been the Dave Ramsey Show.

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This is James Childs, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show.

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Once again, you made The Dave Ramsey Show, one of the top four most popular podcast last year to get your daily dose of motivation and inspiration from the Ramsey network. Subscribe or follow today wherever you listen to podcast. Hey, if you've got questions about retirement investing or becoming an everyday millionaire, go bigger and broader with my man Chris Hogan on the Chris Hogan Show. I am excited to be able to talk to you all week in and week out.

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We're going to focus on your calls and it's going to focus on building wealth investing and how to become an everyday millionaire. Subscribe to the Chris Hogan Show wherever you listen to podcast.

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Hey, it's James, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. This episode is over, but check the episode notes for links to products and services you've heard about during this episode. Thanks for listening.