Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the car rental studios. It's the Dave Ramsey Show where debt is dumb. Cash is king and a paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Chris Hogan Ramsey, personality number one, best selling author, is my co-host. Today, open phones, a triple eight eight to five five two two five. That's triple eight eight two five five two two five.

Mitch in Rockford, Illinois, starts off this hour. Hi, Mitch. Welcome to The Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, David, it's great to be here. Thanks, man. Good to have you. How can we help? Well, my wife and I are really excited. We just baby steps for five and six this month. So we're really happy about that. Really thankful for your wisdom. We actually have kind of a personal goal. We want to pay off our mortgage in a couple of years.

So by twenty, twenty three, we want to be fully that pretty cool. The interesting thing is this month, actually last week we actually got a surprise gift. It's kind of an early inheritance money from our grandparents. And we're kind of just wondering if it's twenty thousand dollars. We have sixty three thousand left on our mortgage and we're kind of wondering, what do you think we should use it for? Should we put the whole lump sum towards the house and pay off for that sooner?

Or we have kind of an older car. It's got about two hundred five thousand miles on it. It's in the shop a lot more than we would like, but I think we can make it last another year or two. Also, my wife really wants to remodel our kitchen on the cheap. It would be about two or three thousand dollars. So I kind of see we either put it towards the house fully or maybe put it towards a cheaper car and kitchen remodel and then use whatever's left over on the house as two options or maybe a third option I'm not thinking about.

So I just figured I'd give you a call. Love the show. Long time listener and see if you had any if.

Yeah. All of those fit within the baby steps.

You know, you can in baby steps four or five and six is when you would upgrade a car if you want, when you could do a little small remodel if you want. And obviously anything you can find extra you throw on the house. And sometimes people are more hardcore than others about getting the house paid off. So what how expensive a car are you talking about?

Sure it would. It would just be a used car, maybe spend a thousand on it or something like that. Our car is worth about to what your household income is. We're about 50 to 60000 net. Mm hmm.

So tend to the tend to the kitchen in the car and 10 on the house. Is that one plan. Right. Well, they probably only take about 3000 for the kitchen, we wouldn't do or, you know, when you set out on the car, that's 10. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right, yeah, yeah, you know, and at it this image, I'm going to tell you something that Dave taught me many years ago, and it's kind of the pie graph approach, which is what he was just kind of walking you through whenever you have money coming in that wasn't expected or it's a bonus, you want to look at it and say, what can I use?

Right. And then what do I what do I put toward my future? And so in looking at this, if you did eight and eight on the car and you did three on the kitchen remodel, that's still going to leave you, right? Nine thousand that you could throw at the mortgage. Now, you look at that and you think you've hit three areas and made progress instead of just picking one.

Right. Yeah, that makes sense, you know. Now, here's the helpful here's the danger, you got to set a stop, a serious dollar amount on the car, right? So if you're looking to spend eight, you're not you're buying a car for five to six grand because you got tax tags and title. That's first number to this remodel.

You and your wife need to pinky swear that we're only spending three percent. We don't need we don't need any bracket creep here. Yeah, that's right.

They need to go to her rather than me. But I scope creep. Yeah. Well, what I might do is. Well, you know, you just need to budget out all three of them and you need to have a real adult conversation about we're not doing this or we can do nothing now and put it all on the mortgage.

And, you know, and then we'll just as soon as mortgage gets done, then we'll do the remodel. There's nothing wrong with that idea either way.

There's so sure, you know, the ten thousand dollars throws your mortgage repayment off by about a year, probably your your debt free on the mortgage a year later if you if you do the car in the kitchen. Right. Right, that's kind of what we are projecting. Yeah, that's what I would guess with your income. So, you know, none of these are dumb, but I think Chris has hit the Achilles heel of the discussion and it is scope creep on the car and on the kitchen because the 3000 our kitchen remodel can be six and about.

Eyeblink Oh, yes. And a car purchase. Oh, it's just a little bit more. And then also, you got nothing going towards a mortgage. Not that I would not recommend. Right.

I'm going to put you in the hot seat. You're in Michon's position. This 20000 came in. What is Dave Ramsey do?

When we were at that stage, it would be one percent on the mortgage. I know. That's exactly me too.

But because we were just more hardcore, we so desperately wanted to be rid of any debt.

We didn't want to be slave to anyone any more.

But Jesus, we were so over these freakin banks, I hated them.

I still hate them. I mean, to this day, I'm still pissed, you know? And it just so it was that there was that level of ferociousness. Right. That would have driven that on through.

But again, I. That's an honest answer, an authentic answer of what I would have done and probably what I would do today, right. Because I know the joy of being debt free more than I know the joy of remodeling a kitchen and or buying a car. And I'm a car guy. Right. You know, I love my cars, but the and again, but that's but I'm not going to impugn that upon her.

Right. Or him right there. They're fitting within. The guidelines that we use in our guidelines are, hey, this is the shortest distance between where you are and wealthy.

Right. And sometimes folks need that. A little relief in the car front. They need a little relief in the kitchen. Yeah, they do. In order to get the energy to plow them through the finish line right now. Let me ask you this. Do you give more weight to the person whose side of the family had the loss, meaning if it was their life, you never do know?

OK, I always wondered that. Do you give a little bit more credence to where the inheritance came from?

No. OK, now, if it's going to come into our house, it's our powers, our money. And if I get an inheritance, it's me and Sharon make the decision together. Sharon gets an inheritance. We make the decision together, get a gift from a family member. We make the decision together. If we get a found money, which, you know, honestly, Sharon has not worked outside the home and earned any income personally for 35 years.

So, you know, we have had an income for thirty five years that I earned.

That's right.

So but so we've had to be real careful about oh, I'm make all dadgum money, so I'll do what I want. You know, I could go there really easy. Yeah. And be a little bit justified, except that that's the wrong way to live. A marriage is the wrong way to live a life. It's the wrong way to build wealth. It's wrong way to view it. Once it comes into my house, it's ours. It's a house that's good.

And that's and again, I think that's important for people out there to really begin to think and go, yeah, it's us. Don't have that pronoun problem. It's dangerous. Yeah, I and your dog speak French. Oui, oui, oui, oui, oui.

That's it. Oh, I love it. Chris Hogan Ramsey, personality number one, bestselling author of the book Everyday Millionaires. If you don't have a copy of it, you probably ought to pick one up. It'll change your life. This is The Dave Ramsey Show.

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Chris Hogan Ramsey personality is my co-host today, I'm Dave Ramsey, your host open phones, a triple eight eight two five five two two five.

So we have discovered among the Ramsey tribe, the Ramsey listeners out there, that about half of you when it comes to tax time.

Have a very simple return. And you should not pay two or three hundred dollars to an LP attacks LP to have your taxes prepared, you should pay someone that or more if you have a complicated return because you're going to make that back. I have a very complicated return and so I pay a lot more than that.

But it makes me money back every year because I've got a guy looking over my shoulders and I don't know anything about taxes. I know a little bit, but it just enough to be dangerous and that's a good way to lose it. But if you're just following a simple return to get your refund, the electronic file is the best way to do it.

It really is, Dave. And unfortunately, out there, you can get overcharged and up sold. And here's what I mean. If you end up owing money, you've got companies that will come after you try to sell your credit card, try to give you a loan, try to hit you with all these things. And that's how they make their money. And it's actually really kind of a bounty on your head. So I love what we've got this year.

We've got a top notch. We've got a choice. You have a choice. Basically, Turbo Tax is about 70 percent of the E file market.

Is it really? Yeah. They own tens of millions of people use Turbo Tax to file. And, you know, in general, the thing operates very well. It operates very well. But as you dig into into it and what they're doing with Turbo Tax and they just paid eight billion dollars to buy credit karma.

Mm.

And and they're pairing that together with Turbo Tax. So basically they're using Turbo Tax not as a product line but as a funnel to get you into their system because they want to sell you, dad. Yes.

And they literally in their own corporate presentation said we put a bounty. On when the customer signs up for a credit card, we get a bounty, you know what a bounty is? Oh, yes, I do. That's when you get cash, when you capture or kill a person or an animal and get paid and you get paid for that coyote hide, you get a bounty.

So if you want to put your hide on the block.

No, no, thank you. No, thank you. Yeah, that's what's going on. And that's that's the why these companies look at it. And so you just, you know, again, the actual product itself, there's nothing wrong with the company's not evil. They're just they're just in the business not of taxes. They're in the business of selling you damn well.

And that's the difference between them and us that Ramsey solutions. Our goal is to help you with money, to help you be able to build wealth. And so what we want to do is invite you to come over, check out Ramsey Smart tax, the other guy's charge. It's half of what other guys charge. You can follow your taxes for seventeen dollars. That's going to beat the as guys prices hands down. And then if you need a little support, you can upgrade to the premium version for thirty seven dollars and get live access right where you are, which is amazing.

So and if you've got it complicated return, you go to one of our LPs and have a full on review, complete return.

That's done that way. But if you've got a simple return. Seventeen dollars is the way to go. Now, Ramsey Smart Tax is brand new this year. It's brand new.

We put it out just for beta testing and everything last year and around about 5000 folks through it. But this year we'll have millions in it. And it's powered by Tech Schleyer, this company, a family owned company down to Georgia.

Yes. And I we we've been working with them for a year and a half. They're wonderful people. The product, it looks, acts and feels like Ramsay because it is. But the guts, the down under the hood is those guys. Yeah. And they've got fifty years of experience. So you got two ways to do your taxes that we would recommend.

And and it's where I will send all of my friends and it's not to jump into the hope and get, you know, set up for a bounty on your head. OK, but it's go to smart tax. Yeah.

And that's the seventeen dollar file or an upgraded file for thirty five dollars. But there's not a bunch of add ons, there's not a bunch of gotchas, there's not a we don't have another agenda. Just going to help you get your taxes filed. It's real simple. That's right. Real simple. Real clean.

And I know it's kind of a hassle if you've used one of the other people like Agent are their software is the same as Turbo. They're trying to set, you know, look at what they're really doing. Yeah, they're big on the refund loans. And those refund loans are dadgum payday lenders. Yes. They I mean, the rate on these refund loans is ridiculous.

It is.

So be careful if you're if you've been if you've been playing with snakes, you're going to get better and you could get away from them.

It takes a little trouble the first year to move it all over to something else. I know that. Yeah, but it's only seventeen dollars. That's right. And you do the trouble once and and nobody's going to put a bounty on you. That's right.

And Dave. And you don't get hit with unnecessary emails.

Those mailers, the phone calls again there's no reason to be in that environment. Get in an environment that's trusted and protected. Ramsey Smart tax will help you get it done.

Yeah. And so here's what we do. It's real simple. You're either going to go with an LP and have a complicated return filed and do it properly, or you're going to use a simple Ramsey smart tax software. Seventeen dollars. You really can't beat this text the word tax to three three, seven, eight, nine. And we're going to hook you up with the help you need. That's tax to three three, seven, eight, nine.

And I will make you a solemn promise. Not a single soul will ask you to take out a credit card as a result of guaranteed.

Guaranteed. Yes.

Not a single soul, you know, not a chance. You know, it's interesting.

So many companies have discovered how wealthy they can become, how much money they can make off of the consumer if they go in the debt business, the credit card business. And so it's not unusual to look at one of these retailers pre pandemic and say, why does Target have the target card? Why does whoever Macy's have a Macy's card? Why do they have a store card? What's Best Buy? Have a Best Buy card? Because at the end of the day.

They make more money on the credit and the issuing of debt 90 days, same as cash. That's right.

They make more money on the debt than they do on the actual sale of the clothing that's for the television or the whatever.

And so, you know, all of these retail operations are a credit card operation with some stuff out front. Mm hmm.

I mean, Victoria's Secret, you pay you know, you think they're in the business of selling tiny underwear. They're really not. They're really in the business of credit.

They make more. If you work at Victoria's Secret and you do not put out a certain number of credit cards every shift, they don't care how many thongs you sold. They want to know how many credit cards you put out because they make their money on the credit card. Yeah.

Oh, Dave, that was one of the things that ended up chasing me out of the banking industry because it was one of those it was all about the ancillary things that you added on to that. And so they kept track of the number of credit cards each day that day. And if your branch wasn't on the list, it was an issue.

Yeah, I know what business they're in because they know where the money is. That's right. And so, you know, it's you know, yeah. We've got all this stuff out front. You can have a savings account, a checking account, or you can you know, you can buy your underwear here or you can get you a suit of clothes over here. You can get your television over here. But really, if you peel back their financials, yeah, they make more money on the sale of that than they do on the other stuff.

And Turbo Tax is exactly the same way. But here's the thing about Ramsey. It's you might not like it.

You might not want to do it. Seventeen dollars may sound like a lot of money to you. I don't know.

But 100 percent of the time, you are not going to get offered a product as a result of using one of our products so we don't put bounties on the heads of our customers.

They're not Kaiyote.

I cannot believe they used that name, that word bounty corporately like that. That's unbelievable. So that's scary. Don't go there. You can do it a better way.

It's a bonus.

I could have come up with a lot of other words, but bounty feel like a coyote bounty. You got you guys all howl out there. Oh. You got a bounty on your head. You know, you feel like a beaver pelt, come on, step it up. Come on, man, you feel like a rabbit. A little scared rabbit.

No, thank you.

Rascally rabbit paw turbo tax.

Yeah, they actually have a good product, but they just got sidetracked with trying to screw you guys with that and it just messed up.

And so along comes Lolo Ramsey and we won't have 40 million people use Ramsey smart taxation here like they did. We know that. But if we can save just a few of you from a bounty, that's a good thing. That is a good thing.

The things you learn on the Dave Ramsey Show text tax to three three, seven, eight, nine, and you can learn about Ramsey Smart Tax or our tax Alby's tax two, three three, seven, eight, nine. Jeremy and Heather are with us from Dallas, Texas, it says on my screen, you guys are debt free. Congratulations. Thank you. Well done. How much have you paid off?

Forty six thousand eight hundred and fifty four dollars in 20 months. Love it. Wow. And your range of income during that time.

We're 90 to one hundred and forty three thousand dollars. Wow, what do you do for a living? Well, I'm in H.R. and Jeremy drove an ice cream truck. I work, I don't work.

So what kind of debt was your 47000? And so we had medical debt, credit cards, two cars, a loan to pay off some taxes, we were just pretty normal. Yeah, we had two student loans as well. Yep. Yeah. Debt everywhere, then. Wow.

And so you guys have the audacity to become debt free while we're in a pandemic. Yeah. Like, how do you do that, how do you do it? Extremely blessed. Yeah, like you went out and killed someone drug at home, so like you're driving an ice cream truck during a pandemic. I love this guy.

Yeah, you're my hero, man, because I want some ice cream, too. But anyway, so the what got all this started 20 months ago? So we actually started because I was working for a major pharmacy retailer as a store manager and I was actually working the counter. This gentleman comes up with his daughter and they're arguing over ice cream and Reese's peanut butter cups and which one has the coupon. So I asked them if that was their envelope system because I'd heard about you and we hadn't really done anything with it.

And he said yes, and that he taught financial peace at a church plant that they had just started. So we actually ended up going to their church and attending F.P. you. Wow. So it was kind of crazy. That's unbelievable. So it all started with a conversation. It's amazing. It's amazing what can happen. You said you had heard of Dave and that seed got planted, but she needed to get to that point. You know, and I love to hear people having that story of no, you know what?

We're going to do it. So, Jeremy, what you learn about your wife throughout this process? Well, I learned that she's pretty on point with. Whatever she has in mind, she is she is ready to do so. And how would you learn about Jeremy? He is just there ready to back it up, and he thinks that my idea is crazy. He'll sit down and be like, let's talk about this. But together we make a pretty perfect team.

We just dove into it head first. And he's been amazing. That's fantastic.

So, Jeremy, she comes home from the store, says a guy with an envelope system invited us to church to his class, would you say? I said, well, let's get to know the church a little bit better. So we went to the church and we got into it a little bit better. I got introduced to Kevin Brown and his family and they were really, really great people, just the churches all over town just filled with great people.

And so we. We're like, OK, let's sign up for the classes sheerness, about three or four other families are in there with us and we we followed it. We followed it pretty much to the T.. Yes, well, that's the secret.

I'm telling you, when you have a recipe that works, I tell people all the time, don't mess with the ingredients, just follow that thing. And that's exactly what you all did. So for families out there that are right now up to their eyeballs in debt, what motivation? What would you tell them? Is it possible for them to get out of debt? Absolutely, it's the freedom, it's the freedom that you feel after you get out of debt, you're not locked down to any anybody else except for maybe your mortgage or whatever you have left.

But, yeah, that's. That's it, you're you're really free of financial tie down to anybody. Yeah.

How long you guys been married? Six years. You ever been debt free before now? Oh, not really, no. Pretty incredible. How's it feel? It's amazing Jeremy's in his off season and we've been able to live on our savings and still able to help and do the things that help people and during the pandemic that has been such a blessing to us, it's so freeing and knowing that you're able to help people in their worst time, because we've been those people that we've had to go to like a church or to our friends for help.

And they, you know, luckily been helpful to us with finances. And so now we can return the favor tenfold. And it's it's just the most amazing feeling. Absolutely.

Well done, guys. So proud of you. Yes. Who are your biggest cheerleaders? And Augustine Clinton from our support group, Kevin Brown and his family and our families and my friend Patty, my husband's family, they did anybody tell you you're crazy? And I look at your sarod.

You know, no, we had so many people who were more like, yes, you're going to do this, and we actually had two of our friends now start the total money makeover and are doing their own debt free journey. I love it.

That's fantastic. You motivated other people to get started. I want you all to keep telling people about it. Keep keep shone in the light of hope so others can get started as well. Very proud of you, too. Very proud.

You can all start with an argument over the envelope at the counter. It's so fun. It's so fun. I love that.

And the irony is, like every commercial leases or ice cream and the irony is as Jeremy drives an ice cream truck. So, yeah, ice cream is in this. This is an ice cream story, right? I sit in my mouth is watering. You guys are incredible. We got a copy of Chris's book for you every day. Millionaires', that is definitely the next chapter in your story. We're so proud of you guys, Heather and Jeremy and Micah in Dallas, Texas.

Forty seven thousand dollars paid off in 20 months, making 90 to 143 countdown. Let's hear debt free scream. All right, one, three, two, one. Well, the. Way to go, yep, that's how that works. Oh, man, you got to love it.

Unbelievable people. We are in a pandemic. How in the world do you pay off debt in the middle of a pandemic? I'm going to tell you, it ain't an accident. It's intentional. You get your heart right. You get your focus right, and you just commit. You go. You don't need anyone's permission. You don't need anyone's vote. You get to decide for you and your future. And that's exactly what they did. You don't need any likes on Facebook?

Nope.

Don't need a tweet. Thumbs up, thank God. Yeah. All the more goofy. And I don't need to be influenced. No, you just got to go get up off your butt. Get up off your assumptions and go do it. I mean, you just got to do this, man.

And it's really it is a series of choices. It really is. I've never heard.

Get off your assumptions. I like that. I like I'ma use that one. But we get to Dave. And that's the thing that I want people to understand.

And you know what's interesting about that couple? You just feel that they were both smiling and happy the whole time.

Not oftentimes what people are doing, their debt free scream, they're smiling and happy. But you kind of got the feeling that there are those people anyway.

Yeah, they are. Yeah. And so this was just like, OK, let's do something fun. Yep.

It wasn't like, oh, God, this is going to be so hard. I don't know for I'm going to die if I don't get to go to a restaurant or get a new pair of shoes.

Dave is channeling his inner ear. Oh yeah.

Well, I mean, this what people do is I figure out why, you know, we figure out a way to sabotage ourselves. Yeah, we do. And instead, these guys like, hey, let's skip right through this.

And the thing that I want. Yeah.

On and the thing that I heard also, Dave, was that the team, the team you could hear they together on this thing. And I'm going to tell you, boy, you get locked arms and moving in the right direction, you're going to make some stuff happen. And there's not a marriage that works together on money that is not a good marriage. It is very, very rare to hear somebody that has a great partnership on getting out of debt and wealth building that doesn't have a great marriage.

Now, sometimes the marriage grows while you're doing that. That's much better because you got those communication lines open. This is the Dave Ramsey Show.

Fresh off in Ramsey personality is my co-host today, Lawrences with us in Los Angeles. Hi, Lawrence. Welcome to The Dave Ramsey Show.

Hey, Dave, how are you? Great, man. What's up?

So I had a question and I wanted to see your two cents on this. I'm 27. No kids, no debt. And I live in Los Angeles. I'd like to purchase a house soon with a 20 percent down payment, preferably for houses. And like a nice safe suburban area are roughly 800 to a mil. Sure. And I wanted to see if you recommend that I focus on an aggressive down payment with my savings or I'll prioritize retirement investing first and whatever excess that I have after that, go to the down payment on a house.

But in turn, that will delay how soon I could purchase this property.

Hmm. We have folks do it both ways. Once you're out of debt and you have your emergency fund in place, that's baby step three. Then sometimes we call it baby step three billion. People just pause right there and pile up cash for a down payment, which is what you're saying. Be intense about that.

I don't you know, you don't have to get to 20 percent down on your first home.

The benefit of doing that, though, is, of course, you avoid PMI, private mortgage insurance, you know, and so that as young as you are, that might be the best route to go.

I wouldn't not do retirement for more than about three years.

Can you can you get what you want to do done in three years? So I basically have been in my career for about 40 years. I just started putting money into my Roth recently last year. So that's basically how I'm not with retirement.

So now I'm saying stop retirement and you pile up cash for three years for a down payment. Can you get where you want to be? Yes. OK, what's your what's your household income, Lawrence? You know, I'm commission sales, right? So on a bad year, like 150 to 200 on a good year, 300 plus.

Wow, you know, that's where you can definitely get where you where you can.

Yeah, I would do that. And you said you're what? You said you're 23, 27, 27 points.

I wish I was going to do that better. Well, I mean, if you start saving for retirement at age 30 and you go from age 30 to 65 and you save, you know, 15 percent of your income through that whole period of time, you're going to be very, very wealthy. Yes, you are. And so take three years with an emergency fund in place first and save up your down payment and then kick in once you buy the house.

Then from then on, you're putting 15 percent aside for retirement and beginning to pay the house off early with anything above that you can find in the budget. That's right.

And Lawrence, I'm going to tell you the things that will block you from getting to that is you going to look at stupid. And what I mean is the car or the truck or the boat. So what you really want to do is really commit to buying this home and having that down payment and making that job number one and avoiding and blocking out anything else that leads you down the path toward debt. But you are like a unicorn to be 27, making a great income and as focused as you are, you're doing really good.

He really is very well done. And, you know, the other warning is, as those of us that are great salespeople, me included, most of us have kind of an abundance mentality versus a scarcity mentality that Rachel talks about. You know yourself, know your money.

And the tendency I had for a long time was I could always make money.

And the mistake I made was I always thought I could out earn my stupidity to go. You can't outrun your stupidity. So you got up. You got to really get, like Chris said, get dialed in on what the goal is, just like when you've got a sales goal or anything else. What is the goal and anything else is, nope, I'm in training and, you know, other stupid idea.

I'm in training before I got connected with you is I kept saying when my income gets higher, I'll get more serious.

Yeah. Or I'll give more than my generosity. Yeah. Yeah. I'll pay for time. It's not true. I'll pull off a full time when my income goes up.

Right. And it just never seems to get there. Know Chris is with us in Fort Walton Beach. Hi Chris. Welcome to the program show. Good morning.

How are you guys doing today. Better than we deserve. What's up? Get a question, so I'm fifty nine. I've got about three fifteen and my four one kay I've been put in the max and the make up contribution and there for the last three years. Good. I just sold a piece of property, so I'm going to have some income from that. Now I have a one sticky note on the house at two point two five fifteen years left on the note, debating on whether to pay the house off, then I would totally be able to have like the rest of you guys and say, I'm totally debt free.

You go crore. Or I could take that money and invest it in because my rate of return from my people that are doing it right now has been averaging about twenty two percent each year. Not sure. I mean what's your house worth.

It's about 260. OK, well, if you're going to if you're not going to pay the house off, you should refinance the house and borrow as much against it as you possibly can and invest all of it. OK. And then I feel weird when I said that. Well, no, because it's the best low interest loan you're ever going to get, but I feel weird to you.

It felt weird to me to say it. Then I feel like you're going backwards and then I feel like you're going backward.

What sort of you know, I mean, at this point I would make how much proceeds you get from the rental property when you sold it.

Two hundred. OK, if I woke up in your shoes as I answer questions on this show doing this for 30 years, I'd write a check as I jump online as soon as I got a phone to pay your house off.

Now, if you really hate being debt free down in the summer, the interest rates are still going to be low and just go get, you know, the mortgage.

OK, you're not going to hate it. I mean, that's what I've been struggling with this because like I said, I am totally debt free. I've had I took your financial peace program years ago. I've had zero credit card debt. I've maintained that. Yep. And all of that. All of that.

In spite of the fact that some of the things we taught you in financial peace don't feel mathematically correct. All of that has led to you prospering.

Mm hmm. That's correct. This is one more of them, right?

That's one more of them, because what is not factored into the spread between what your mortgage interest rate is and the rate of return on your investments is risk and the sense of well-being that you get with a paid for home that's going to launch you into the last chapters of your extreme wealth building.

So you are going to be 70 years old and you're going to have five million dollars in a paid for house. That's the trajectory you are on right now. All right, I think you're going to be OK. I do, too, and buddy, I want you, Chris, to continue to be weird. You see, weird is what caused you to get out of that. Being weird is what caused you to be willing to sacrifice and let go of that property because you knew that, hey, you can move forward, continue the path of being weird and pay off that house, take what you were paying on the mortgage to the home, and then you can start to kind of build that back up or, you know, you got it was a great question.

It is a great question. So here's what we're pushing against folks. Chris is and I am and you are out there, the culture.

Has taught us for two generations that were always going to owe money to the man. Mm hmm.

And it's almost like I was watching the movie with Harriet Tubman the other night and, you know, she would go up and some of the slaves wouldn't leave. She would come all the way the south. Great danger, great personal danger to herself to get people, you know, to get the slaves on the Underground Railroad. And some of them would say, no, I can't leave my.

The devil I know mhm, yep is more comfortable than the then the then what freedom looks like and she's right, I'm right here.

I can take you to freedom. I can take you to freedom. Oh no. Oh no. Oh no. And you know, and sometimes it takes the form of an intellectual analysis.

Mm hmm.

Oh well you know, you don't want to lose that low interest rate on that mortgage or I get points back on my card or. But it still is. I'm going to just stay here. Harriet, even though you came south for me.

Hmm. I'm going to study the Masters. Not to mean. He's not to mean he didn't hit me that often. Yeah, and that's man, that's exactly what's going on here.

It's a spiritual thing and it really is a broken spirit. It is who doesn't run when you have a chance to run, you have a chance to a broken spirit. That's good. And you and this culture has broken.

John, John and Susie, public spirit out here. Yeah. With these dads. And it's just a way of life. You're always going to have a car payment. Now, what kind of fool doesn't have a credit card? You're so weird, Ramsey. I'm a very wealthy weirdo. And this is the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer and phone screener for The Dave Ramsey Show. If you would like to do your debt free scream live on the show, make sure you visit Dave Ramsey, dot com slash show and register.

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