Transcribe your podcast

Welcome to The Hidden Gem, a production of I Heart Radio and Greyman Mild from Aaron Manque.


Long before man inhabited the earth, it was the exclusive domain of the jinn they lived in societies and communities, had hierarchies, kingdoms with kings and queens, tribes with chiefs and ministers and of course, ordinary citizens.


The 13th century Persian polymath, Zakharia Alcuin. He wrote about that time in his marvelous tome on cosmology called The Wonders of Creation. It is related in the histories that a race of jinn in ancient times before the creation of Adam inhabited the Earth and covered it. The land and the sea and the plains of the mountains and the favours of God were multiplied upon them. And they had government and prophecy and religion and law. But they transgressed and offended and opposed their profit and wickedness to abound in the Earth, where upon God, whose name be exalted, sent against them an army of angels who took possession of the Earth and drove away the Jinns to the regions of the islands and made many of them prisoners.


And of those prisoners was Azazeal, and a slaughter was made among them.


At that time Azazeal was young. He grew up among the angels. It became learned in their knowledge and assumed the government of them, and his days were prolonged until he became their chief. And thus it continued for a long time.


This June, Azazeal not only raised his ranks above the jinn, ruling over them for a thousand years, but he also raised his ranks above the angels themselves. It said that he had more knowledge of both the seen and unseen realms, was more pious and righteous than the angels and even rose into heaven with them. So intense was his devotion to God. There wasn't a place on heaven, on earth that he hadn't prostrated himself in worship. Such was his love for the Almighty.


But one day it all came crashing down. He lost everything, and he went from being Azazeal a jinn among angels praised in the heavens and earth to how we know him today. Despised and feared, condemned to the depths of hell. We know him by many names, dozens Iblis, Mastamho, Beelzebub, Abbadon, Diablo's, Baphomet, shapen some real Satan himself. The accuser. The hated the adversary. The Great Deceiver. That's right. The one that rules over the most evil jinn.


The Demons is none other than Satan, and all of his deception and treachery is reserved for us mere mortals. My name is Robert Chaudhury and I'll be your guide into the world of the Hidden Jinn. Welcome. Every tradition that entertains the idea of Satan has for centuries and longer debated whether or not Satan is an actual entity, even in those traditions that believe very much in God and angels and prophets, there are groups that way. How much of scripture is literal and how much is figurative for many Sufis, those mystics of the Islamic world, Satan personifies evil but may not actually exist as an evil being.


Rumi, one of the very few Sufi saints and poets known in the Western world, viewed Satan as a manifestation of the sins of arrogance and envy to him. Satan, the one I double represented, a half blind intellect that could see no further than the surface, unable to see the essence within others, others connected the characteristics of Satan to the mechanics of the human psyche, with the angels representing the light in US and Satan representing the darkness. But then there is no dearth of literature and text and sincere belief that Satan is much more than just an idea or a representation of our inner condition.


To many, Satan was and is very much an existence, just as we are. He was born, he lives and he will die. Satan appears in all three of the Abrahamic religions Judaism, Christianity and Islam as a fairly similar figure, someone who took a position among angels, brilliant and beloved, called Lucifer in the Bible, meaning Star of the morning. He didn't stay exalted. The story of Satan's fall from grace and from heaven itself. Why he was thrown out of favor with God, why he became an eternal enemy to mankind.


That part has some similarities, but also some interesting differences. According to the Jewish Encyclopedia, Summerell, the head of all demons was once a mighty prince of the angels in heaven. He was born and will eventually die. He's a celestial being that can fly through the air and can assume any animal or human form. He's only mentioned by name as said then the Satan twice in the entire Hebrew Bible and both times in the Book of Job and the Book of Zakharia.


He's present as a part of a divine council of sorts, a heavenly court where his role is kind of like a public prosecutor. Hence he's the accuser. He not only levels charges against those being tried, he urges God to mete out the toughest punishments. Beyond these mentions, there's not much to be said in the Talmud about Satan, and his role is as a figure, subservient to God. It's a different story altogether with the New Testament, though, where Satan really comes into his own appearing by name thirty six times, having grown fully into the evil part of the good versus evil dichotomy.


Now we have all heard of the various temptations of Christ by Satan, but it's Satan's early interactions with mankind that really deserve examining, because that's where we unearth the root of his enmity towards mankind.


And in the New Testament, that happens when Satan, in the guise of a serpent, tempts Adam and Eve to eat the forbidden fruit, but that again begs the question of why? Why would he do that? Well, to answer it, we have to backtrack just a bit between the old and the New Testament to writings that fell in between. And there we find one ancient Jewish apocryphal group of writings known as Apocalypse of Moses, in which Satan minced no words with Adam and tells him exactly what his beef is.


What? Asks Adam of Satan, have I done to you? Oh, Adam, all my enmity, jealousy and resentment is towards you, since on account of you, I was expelled and alienated from my glory, which I had and have in the midst of the angels on account of you, I was cast out upon the earth on account of you. I was cast out from heaven when you were formed, I was cast out in the face of God and set forth in the company of angels.


The Lord God then said, Behold, Adam, I have made you in our image and likeness. And the Archangel Michael called all the angels saying Worship the image of the Lord God, just as the Lord God has commanded, Michael himself worshipped. Then he called me and said, Worship the image of God, Jehovah. And I answered, I do not have it within me to worship Adam. I will not worship him who is lower and posterior to me.


I am prior to that creature before he was made, I had already been made. He ought to worship me.


This is the same story that appears nearly a millennia later. But this time in the Muslim holy scripture, the Koran. Satan is called by the name Iblis in the Koran. And of the 11 times he's mentioned by name, nine of them are connected to this incident. When Satan refused to bow down to Adam, God says in the Koran, we said to the angels, prostrate to Adam, and they prostrated except for Iblis. He said, Should I prostrate to one you created from Clay?


Do you see this one whom you have honored above me? If you delay me until the day of resurrection, I will surely destroy his descendants except for a few. Another story not from the Koran but from the sages, draws this saga out further. It says that when God created the form of Adam out of Clay but had not yet blown a soul into him, Iblis was mystified. He began to observe this lifeless thing, just slowly drying out, sitting propped up outside the gates of the Garden of Eden.


And he started to suspect that it was just a hollow form. So Ebele started throwing pebbles at Adam and he heard a hollow clink. What the heck? What was this creature? He had never seen anything like it. He wanted to get a closer look at the first human who lay there quiet and still lifeless. Yet so Iblis entered the drawing clay form, swimming through the body of this new creation. And lo and behold, there was nothing on the inside.


It was completely empty. That for sure, didn't impress Satan. No way. No. How was Iblis going to bow down to this muddy, hollow dam powerless thing when he himself was powerful, needed a fire, could travel through the heavens and the earth, knew everything there was to know and all of the realms. And it was this arrogance, this clear disobedience to God that was his downfall. But he wasn't going to go down alone. If he would lose paradise, so would Adam.


And so the children of Adam now and forever. How are you fallen from heaven on Lucifer, Son of the Morning? How are you cut down to the ground, you weaken the nations where you have said in your heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God. I will also sit on the mountain, the congregation on the farthest sides of the north. I will ascend above the heights of the cloud.


I will be like the most high yet. You shall be brought down to seal to the lowest depths of the pit.


God was not having Lucifer's arrogance, as we can see in this passage from Isaiah and a new chapter was about to begin for him, he would be reborn from Lucifer, the morning star to Satan, the despised in Islamic theology. He went from being Iblis, he who has despaired to shape on the adversary, Satan or Satan, now fully humiliated, was ready to leave heaven. But first he had one rather important request.


Satan has gone to be given until the end of time to show God that, hey, this claymation thing you think is so great, it isn't. It's weak, it's limited, it's stupid. It won't be good and right and pure the way you want it to be. It will be corrupt and greedy and jealous and violent and bloodthirsty. And I will prove it to you by spending the rest of my days pulling it away from everything good towards everything wrong.


I'll prove to you that you were wrong. So Satan raises the challenge to God. Because thou hast thrown me out of the way low, I will lie in, wait for them on the straight way, then I will assault them from before them and behind them from the right and their left. And God responded, get out from here, be gone with you, disgraced and expelled, if any of them follow me, I will fill hell with you all.


Tempt with your call all whom you wish, muster against them, all your forces, your cavalry and your foot soldiers share with them riches and offspring and seduce them with rosy promises. Satan's promise is nothing but a deception. Still, God granted Stayton a stay of execution, if you will. He gave him all the time in the world to see what kind of havoc he could wreak.


And ever since then, it's been on. Satan began his assault on mankind early in the game by deceiving Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. While the Christian tradition relates to Satan, enter the garden in the form of a snake, the Muslim tradition differs a bit slightly.


According to it, Satan approached a number of animals that lived in the garden, trying to get any of them on board to work with him, and all of them refused except for one a serpent.


So he told the serpent, I'll protect you from the children of Adam.


If you can get me into the garden, you'll be protected forever from them. And so she agreed. She smuggled Satan into the garden, tucked between her two front fangs.


And as they casually idled by the original power couple, Satan heard Adam tell Eve that man he wished they could live forever and not have to die. That was Satan's in. Now, he knew what Adam's weakness was and he knew exactly what to promise him in order to get both of these humans to disobey God. If you remember, they basically had the entire garden at the disposal except for a single tree, and so it was that tree to Satan, to Adam and Eve that bore the fruit that would give them immortality.


We all know how that story ends, Satan succeeded, gaining an early lead on mankind right out of the gate. After all, if Satan couldn't have the garden, no one would. Now, when Satan was cast out, he had enough foresight to know if he was going to wage a never ending war against mankind, he needed some backup. In the Book of Jubilees, another ancient Jewish text, Satan says to God, referring to angels he was used to hanging out with.


Lord, creator, let some of them remain before me and let them hearken to my voice and do all that, I shall say, and to them, for some of them are not left to me, I shall not be able to execute the power of my will on the sons of men, for these are for corruption and leading astray for great is the wickedness of the sons of men. According to the Book of Revelation, Satan took one third of the angels with him and his fall, he gathered together those angels and armies of gin together to become his legion of demons whose sole purpose is to do his bidding along with their master.


These jinn were also given an extra lease on life. They would live until judgment day when everything on this earth perishes and they would only die when their leader did. Now, Irish law, however, says that not all those who were cast out of heaven with Lucifer became demons. Instead, they believe some of the fallen angels became fairies. The book, The Vengeful Jane, recounts a story documented by Celtic folklorist Alexander Carmichael. In October of 1871, Carmichael found himself stuck on the Scottish Isle of Barra, where he met a 92 year old storyteller named Roderick McNeil.


McNeill was a legend himself, known to never have worn shoes in his life. He had never fallen ill, and he had the climbing skills of a goat, even in his advanced age. McNeil regaled the stranded Karmichael with local fairy tales. But here, he said, is how it all began. The proud angel fomented a rebellion among the angels of heaven where he had been a leading light. He declared that he would go out and found a kingdom of his own when going out at the door of heaven.


The proud angel brought prickly and biting lightning out the doorstep with his heels. Many angels follow him, so many that at last the sun called out. Father, father, the city is being emptied or upon. The father ordered the gates of heaven and hell to be closed. This was instantly done, and those who are in or in and those who were out were out. While the hosts who had left Haven and had not reached hell, they flew into the halls of the Earth.


These are the fairy folk ever since doomed to live under the ground and only permitted to emerge when and where the king of heaven permits. The parallels between this lower Christian belief and Muslim tradition is pretty strong, and perhaps one main point of difference is this was a police or Lucifer, as he was known, and Angel himself, or was he Ajin that elevated himself to the level of angels? Christian belief is strongly in the angel camp. But Muslim scholars are conflicted about it.


There are strong scriptural arguments to be made that he was an angel, but just as strong are the arguments that he was and is a gen. On some level, though, it doesn't really matter, what matters is his role after the fall from grace that Satan became master over the demons, the most evil jinn, and to this day, he remains so. Some traditions say after his victory over Adam and Eve, he married the snake that had assisted him and they went on to have many demon children and the names of the most powerful of his sons, including the seven jinn kings, are well known.


There's a flower, the one eyed demon whose wheelhouse is tempting humans to lewd and vulgar behavior, then their suit, the father of lies and closely related in purpose is his brother is a number whose domain is dishonesty and corruption in business. There's dorsum was only purpose is to ruin marriages by turning a couple against each other. There's tIere who's in charge of striking people with disaster and injury. And finally, there's Don Hish, the most powerful of all of Satan's sons who lives in every dark void, attacks his victims with blindness and even lurks inside the dark wombs of women ready to cause miscarriages.


Along with these powerful demon sons carrying forth his royal line at the Prince of Darkness are hundreds of thousands of less significant offspring. It said that Satan laid 30 eggs after being expelled from heaven, 10 in the west, 10 in the east and 10 in the middle of the Earth's. From every egg, a new race of demons and gin emerged like the ghouls, poisonous scorpions, terrifying night birds, venomous snakes and other creatures, each of them an enemy to mankind.


Satan seed, if you will, is spread far and wide, and while he has, like other, denied the ability to move between the mortal and unseen world, he primarily lords over them all from his very own kingdom. It said that he presides in a huge palace that sits over a body of water guarded by tens of thousands of gin where he holds court and presumably where he lives with his big, terrifying, evil family. And that palace is exactly where you think it would be.


And the lowest depths of hell. Theologians have argued for millennia about hell, just like they have about heaven, especially about whether it's a literal or figurative place. Maybe we're already in hell having been kicked out of paradise, maybe hell is all in our minds, it's our fear and terror of despair and maybe, just maybe, it's as real a place as the planet Earth.


Regardless, the majority of the major world religions entertain the concept of hell or very much believe in it as an actual place, and in nearly all versions, hell is a place of fire.


Fire, no doubt, strikes terror and all humans, whether a punishment or a purification fire when we aren't able to control it, inspires fear, causes pain, and in the end leaves us as nothing but ashes.


But also, fire can be a means to an end, a trial that we are willing to face, a sacrificial device to get what we want.


And thousands of years ago, the cult of an ancient God understood that the Ammonite did Malac, meaning King was a terrifying God worshipped by the Canaanites, terrifying because the only sacrifice that appeased him were children.


Morlock is sometimes depicted as having the body of a man and the head of a bull, although no such descriptions actually exist from that time. But rabbinic texts do describe the deity as being made of bronze and hollow with seven compartments.


Some have said that Morlock was a demon that humans made into a pagan God, but not just any demon, one of the princes of the underworld. In fact, Milton's epic poem, Paradise Lost describes Mallock as one of the chiefs of Satan's gin's a great demon warrior that even delivered a speech in the Parliament of hell, who was then transformed into a deity by mankind. The pagan priests made their offerings to mallock and each of these compartments.


In the first, they put flour in the second turtledoves and the third are you in the fourth, Aram in the fifth, a calf in the sixth and ox.


And in the seventh, a child, Malik, was an insatiable God, devouring everything that was offered to him.


It said that the massive bronze idol was built with arms that pointed into the sky palms upward, and that whatever was placed into the palms rolled down into his open mouth and into the hollow belly where a fire burned. Day and night. The worshippers offered children and babies into Morlocks flames to ward off destruction or ensure prosperity in a ritual the 12th century Rabbi Raucci described this way, and they hated him from his lower parts and his hands being stretched out and made hot.


They put the child between his hands and it was burnt. When I vehemently cried out, the priests beat a drum that the father might not hear the voice of his own son and that his heart might not be moved. Oftentimes, the children had been bought from poor families, and if the parents shed a single tear during the sacrifice, the entire ritual would be null and void. The sacrifice wouldn't be accepted, and they would have to return the money and their child would still be dead.


Now, the God of the Israelites was having none of it, which is why he thunders in Leviticus and thou shalt not let any of this seed pass through the fire to Molik.


Neither shout thou profane the name of my God, I am the Lord. The Hebrew Bible also names the place where these sacrifices were made in the book of Jeremiah. And they built up the high places of ball, which are in the valley of the Sons of Hainan, to cause their sons and daughters to pass through the fire onto mallock, which I commanded them not.


That valley where thousands of children were born and sacrifice is found in Jerusalem and it's known by the name of Gahanna, Organum, Buckenham is not just that physical place, that valley in Jerusalem and Judaism.


The word Ghannam is also used to describe the place of torment reserved for the wicked after death. And the New Testament used the Greek form, Gahanna mentioned 12 times in the same sentence. And in the Islamic religion, the name of the place of eternal damnation is mentioned dozens and dozens of times in scripture and prophetic traditions is called Jardim. No horrifying detail is spared throughout these traditions and describing this place of everlasting punishment, the second century apocalypse of Peter tells us that in hell those who blaspheme the name of the Lord are suspended by their tongues over a flaming lake.


Murder victims get to witness the endless torment and torture of their murderers, and those who slander others have their eyes burned out by hot irons.


The New Testament describes hell as a place of no escape, a second unending death for those trapped in it, where the worm does not die and the fire is not quenched and the smoke of the tormented goes up forever and ever. And they have no rest day and night. And the Islamic forces go even further in details, describing a place where the suffering is both physical and spiritual, where sufferers are covered in blazing pitch and thaat their burned skins exchanged constantly for new ones.


So they continue to feel pain where when they cry for food and drink, they're given boiling putrid water and thorney dry vegetation that provides no respite from thirst or hunger. Hell itself is said to be huge, split into levels with seven gates of entry sinners sorted according to their sins in a pit that is so deep that if a stone is thrown into it, it would take 70 years to reach the bottom, its walls so thick that it would take 40 years just to walk there with it said that on the day of judgment, hell will be dragged before all of mankind with 70000 rains and every single rain will be held by 70000 angels.


Hell will breathe, inhaling and exhaling like a sentient being, roaring in fury. And God will ask hell whether it is full and satisfied yet and how will answer. Are there any more to come?


And in this hell, according to sources from each of the Abrahamic religions, you will find Satan both captive but also commanding, trapped himself in the Hellfire, but with the power to order his legions of dementing to wreak havoc on mankind. At least according to revelations, he was locked up there for an appointed time. Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain.


He sees the dragon, the ancient serpent who was the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years and threw him into the pit and locked and sealed it over so that he would deceive the nations no more until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be let out. For most believers, though, Satan isn't confined to any one place he can be found anywhere except for where the name of God is invoked. One prophetic tradition even says that Satan can be found flowing through human veins right there in our own blood.


Whether it's Satan is still stuck in hell itself or he roams the earth or flows through our bodies or only occupies our minds. Well, the truth is we might never know until it's too late. But we do know this the hell on earth that was created at Gahanna, where children were burned alive for the pleasure of Marlock, is long gone. The valley itself, of course, still remains. And today, the cries of those children still echo through the sand and the dust reaching across the millennia.


You may not be able to hear it because today Gehenna is a popular venue in Jerusalem for music concerts. When Lucifer went from being the morning star in heaven to the akehurst Satan in hell, everything about him was transformed.


He was described before the fall not only to be brilliant of mind and good of spirit, but also absolutely beautiful to behold. Lucifer outshone the angels that surrounded him with his stunning good looks.


He was so handsome, in fact, that in Ezekiel God says of him, you were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect and beauty. You were in Eden, the Garden of God. Every precious stone adorned you. Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty. You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor. The sin of arrogance not only lost Lucifer, his rank in heaven and his favor with God, but also his perfect good looks.


He isn't described in much detail in any of the sacred texts in terms of what he looked like when he was transformed into Satan. But the Book of Revelation in the New Testament describes the devil as an ancient serpent that looks like a red dragon with seven heads and ten horns. Text say that he's blind in one eye and has exactly seven hairs on his chin. The story goes that Satan once showed the Prophet Enoch an egg and told him that God had shaped the world like that egg, which really pissed off because he knew it wasn't true.


So he told Satan, no, no, God shaped the Earth like the eye of a needle, and he held out a needle so Satan could get a closer look. That didn't end well for Satan because Enoch took the opportunity to jab him in the right eye, blinding him in that eye for good. But the horned, grotesque, forked, tongue tailed monster that we tend to imagine a Satan. Well, that image didn't emerge until the Middle Ages.


According to religious scholar Jeffrey Russell. In medieval times, the church began emphasizing the evil power of Satan more and more to scare believers into compliance. And along with that emerged artists who didn't have much to go on from the Bible. So they drew from various pagan deities to create images of a fearsome prince of darkness. Cloven hooves, horns, wings, a tail and other beastly features were cobbled together from various myths and traditions to give us the goat headed Satan.


We're familiar with. The 15th century painting called Inferno by Italian painter Giovanni Madinah depicts a nightmarish Satan 10 times the size of humans that suffer around him with wings and claws and two heads, one of which is between his legs, both of them devouring some percenter in the Muslim world. Satan was similarly visualized, appearing and painted manuscripts as a massive dark beast like figure. Writers like Dante added to the visual with fantastic details, like giving him three heads, each munching on three great traders in history Judas Iscariot, Brutus and Cassius.


His Satan has the body of a human six massive wings, furry lower legs and the cause of a beast, and he's half frozen in a lake of ice, an image made real by the 16th century painter Cornelius Goll. By the 18th century, depictions of Satan had morphed from beastly to a human like form, a deceptive, sly, weaselly figure, one that we've seen fairly frequently in pop culture. This Satan was less of a threat because he would tear you limb from limb and more so a threat because he would trick, seduce and persuade you into sin.


Think Angel Heart or Devil's Advocate films in which Satan is personified as a manipulative con man, luring people deep into the darkest parts of themselves. Now, in many of these tales, the hapless protagonist has no idea that they're dealing with Satan until it's too late, until the weakness and their own soul has been thoroughly exposed. But then there are those who willingly seek out the devil in hopes of making a deal. But as we all know, these deals are generally a losing prospect.


Just ask Dorian Gray or Daniel Webster, after all the house or in this case, Satan always wins even in court.


By the way, allow me to direct your attention to the 1971 federal case, Gerald Mayo versus Satan and his staff. No, I'm not making this up. Male alleged in his claim that, quote, Satan has on numerous occasions caused plaintiff misery and unwarranted threats against the will of plaintiff, and that Satan has placed deliberate obstacles in his path and has caused plaintiff's downfall and had therefore deprived him of his constitutional rights. The court didn't just dismiss the claim outright.


They actually first considered whether or not they had jurisdiction over the devil. He was a foreign prince, MEUs, the judge. So maybe he could claim sovereign immunity. Ultimately, though, the court had to dismiss the suit not because the claims were outlandish, but because the plaintiff had failed to indicate how exactly U.S. Marshals were supposed to serve the complaint on the double address. Unknown, if you will. The Muslim scripture, the Koran, minced no words when it comes to warning mankind about Satan.


Verily, Satan is an enemy to you, so treat him as an enemy. He only invites his adherents so that they may become companions of the blazing fire. Meanwhile, Satan might seem like an undefeatable adversary.


The truth is the power balance between Satan and humankind actually tips in our favor.


He might be an avowed enemy to us, but even then, Satan has no power over anyone. He can't make anyone do anything. It's because we have free will that most dangerous power we can choose right from wrong. We have the emotional and intellectual capacity to know when we're hurting others and whether we care or not about that is also up to us. There's a fascinating passage in the Koran that lays this dynamic out clearly in which the sinner condemned to hell is pointing a finger at Satan who isn't having it.


And Satan will say when the matter is decided, it was God who gave you a promise of truth. I too promised, but I betrayed you. I had no authority over you except to call you. But you responded to me. Then blame me not. But blame your own souls. I cannot help you, nor can you help me. I reject you associating me with God, or there must be a grievous penalty for those who do wrong and worship false gods.


And this passage takes us all the way back to the beginning of Satan's story when he fell from heaven, disgraced for his arrogance and disobedience to God. We are told. But there are those who say that we are completely misunderstanding the story and misunderstanding Satan, some Sufis, those esoteric, mystical Muslims who believe that Satan prefer to be damned to hell for eternity, then betray his devotion to God. Satan, they believe, didn't refuse to bow down to Adam out of arrogance for thinking he was greater than this dingy clay creature.


Rather, he refused to bow down because he was a strict monotheist and monotheists only worship and bow down to one God. As a devout believer and a devoted lover of God, Satan would only ever bow down to the almighty and never to anyone or anything else. He knew that God was God.


He had been in God's company, in the company of God's angels. He had witnessed both God's heaven and his hell. How then could Satan prostrate himself to anyone other than the one true God? Even he wasn't that lowly. In fact, there's a well known story told by numerous classical Muslim scholars about an encounter that Moses has with Satan. Moses asks the devil, why did you refuse God's order to bow to Adam and Satan response that it wasn't an order.


It was a test.


A test of his singular devotion to God and God alone. In that case, said Moses, why would God turn you out from heaven? Turn you from Lucifer into Satan? The Akehurst? This form responded, Satan is just temporary, it, too, shall pass. And as far as Satan was concerned, his love for God remained the same. Now, I know the reasoning here seems a bit convoluted, but it does pose an important question about the nature of Satan versus the nature of mankind.


If Satan is able to say, hey, I never did any of the evil stuff, that was all you.


I never killed or hurt anyone.


I never worship false gods. I never pillaged entire nations, enslaved and wiped out whole communities. I just suggested these things to you and your own pride and envy, greed, lust led you to commit heinous acts. Well, then who is actually the evil one here? If it's us, then it doesn't even seem like we need Satan because we can do terrible all by ourselves. Thanks for joining us this week, next week. We'll be back to take you another step into the world of the hidden gem.


Until then, remember, we are not alone. If you loved today's episode, I'm going to ask you a big favor, please stop by iTunes and leave me a rating and a review, even if it's just one short sentence.


Not only is that how other listeners discover the podcast, but it's also what keeps the podcast going.


And for every thousand reviews that I get on iTunes, I'll release another Patrón episode. Absolutely free. That's right. We're on Patreon.


So if you're a gin enthusiast, check out the Companion Patreon series at Patreus Dotcom Slash Hidden Gem. Again, that's Patreon Dotcom Slash Hidden Gine.


And remember, Gin is spelled DJI and that's where you go to find an amazing series of interviews between me, scholars, experts, ATA's historians and everyday laypeople who have had extraordinary experiences with gin. And everybody can check out the first episode absolutely free. It's me and my husband sharing our gin stories and it was a lot of fun. And if you have any gin stories, well, I'd love to hear from you. Email me at the hidden Djenne at Gmail dot com.


Once again, it's the Hidden Gin Gin with a D at Gmail dot com.


And you might just hear back from me or you might hear your story on the show.


And finally, don't forget to follow us on social media or on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram with the handle the hidden gem there you can tweet post instr Dmae.


I love to hear from all of you. And believe me, I read every single message.


The Hidden Gem is a production of I Heart Radio and Greyman mile from Aaron Manque. The podcast is written and hosted by Rabia Chaudry and produced by Miranda Hawkins and Trevor Young with executive producers Aaron Manque, Alex Williams and Matt Frederich. Music for the show was provided by Smithsonian Folkways Recordings. Our theme song was created by Patrick Cortez. For more podcast from My Heart Radio, visit the I Heart radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.