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Who knows what weirdly specific amount they could save you. All right, ladies and gentlemen, my guest today is Mike Baker. He is an American British former covert operations officer with the Central Intelligence Agency. And he is now the host of Black Files declassified on the Science Channel.


Please give it up for Mike Baker government podcast, The Joe Rogan Experience, trained by Joe podcast by night all day. Oh, my big show brought your laptop this time, huh? Look at that laptop.


I got your prepared pad of paper. I got a pen. There's many issues. Is there anything my covid test. Oh yeah. We needed that. Yeah. Yeah, we're doing them every week now.


I've, I don't even know how many times I've been tested, but it's good to know.


It's good to know. It's odd that you can travel across the country and find that some places it takes you ten days to get a response. Sometimes it takes twenty minutes to get a response. That's what I don't understand.


Well, the superduper ones they have at the White House, they can get those in twenty minutes. The ones we have here, you can get well, a ten minute one. See, the antibody blood test will show you in ten minutes whether or not you have and this is the FDA approved ones that we use here. They show you whether or not you have active antibodies, meaning a recent infection. You're probably currently fighting off the virus or whether or not it's an old infection.


So you had the virus and beat it and then the nose wobbles, say definitively if you've got it in your system.


Now, if they come back during the course of this show and say that I've got it, am I quarantined in the studio?


Yeah, well, there are the antibodies. There are negative. So most likely you don't have no good.


OK, I feel better. I go, well, how do you turn this thing towards right sir.


So how do you how do you feel about all this. Weirded out like. No, I haven't been here since covid, right. Yeah, we were I think the last time it was. It was before then. Just before then it started to settle in and then I traveled last was mid-February.


I was in New York City and it was starting to people were starting to be aware and they were talking about a little bit, but there were really no changes in behavior.


And then then it really hit and everybody went into to hurry lockdown. And, you know, the good thing is pandemics don't last.


Right? So we're going to get past this. This is not like the zombie apocalypse. So I'm not one of those people that, you know, is hiding in my bunker, even though I like my bunker.


But kind of bunker. You take a bunker. I bet you do. But you have a real one, right?


I do. I do.


I mean, it's like a fucking submarine, but little periscope, it comes up, looks around the compound. It looks like a gopher. Yeah. We use it for for a variety of reasons. But it's I just not I'm not I mean, I'm worried because it's it's serious.


And of course it's tragic to lose anybody. And, you know, we've lost over a hundred fifty thousand people. But you also got to keep this in context, right? I mean, we've had pandemics before. Pandemics just means it crossed international boundaries.


So there's there's an element here. The two things can be true.


You can believe the science, which, of course, you should do. You should pay attention to statistics and data and do the best things you can do. But you can also look at it and go, what kind of fucked?


Because part of this problem is the coverage of it because of political reasons not to jump right into the political thing.


But, you know, I can't help but think that we wouldn't have quite as much confusion and we wouldn't have quite as much, you know, the angst that people are feeling if if it weren't for those sort of the visceral hatred that exists out there on some sectors for the president.


And again, I don't have a dog in the hunt, but I have a feeling like the tone of coverage will change in November if Biden wins and not science doesn't change. Right. It's still the same virus. But I just have a feeling that we'll see a tone change suddenly. It'll be a little bit more about if Biden wins, it'll be more about what? Yeah. Let's you know, let's look on the bright side. Let's get this coverage sorted out.


Let's get the country working. Let's do these things.


And, you know, again, you can believe both things. You can believe that we're fucked because of the politics and you can also believe the science.


My friend got tested, turned up positive. And the the doctor asked him what his political leanings are, and he said, why? And he said, well. I really believe in hydroxy chloroquine, but a lot of people who are Democrats who don't like the president don't want to use it like that is hilarious. And he goes hydroxy chloroquine when used correctly.


He said, particularly in the early stages of the virus seems to be very effective. Now, there's all these people that are coming out and saying it's not and there's always people that are coming. And I talk to my doctor about it. And I said, well, why do you think that? It's it's because the doctor that I use currently, he recommends it for people that are high risk as a prophylactic. That's the way Trump is supposedly taking it.


He's like it's actually there's a study that shows that it's very effective, a study from Italy that shows it's very effective as a prophylactic.


And he says also when you when you get it, you get the catch the virus and then you can get it quickly. So if you can get hydroxy chloroquine and you quickly.


But, you know, look, I'm a moron.


I don't know who the fuck to believe. So I read all the shit. I'm like, well, do I believe the doctor or do I believe all these other doctors that say it's bullshit, too? I believe that a whole team of doctors, by the way, Andrew Schultz has a fucking hilarious video on hydrochloric when like, what is it? He did one of those Instagram videos. So go check that out.


But it's it's one of those things where it's like, I wish the president didn't talk about it because then we would know what the fuck it is. Is it good? Is it bad? I mean, are people really not taking it just because the president is the one who endorsed it like that is I think this is crazy.


I don't think there's any doubt about that. Right. I mean, there's some reason. So. Yeah, and people don't know like to your point, people don't know what to believe. And it's it's one thing if if you know, the reporting or the the dissemination of information is partisan during normal times. But you're talking about a public health crisis and you would think we'd set all of that bullshit aside. I mean, if we can't come together as a country during a fucking public health crisis, what the hell is wrong?


But and it's both sides, both sides are tossing hand grenades at each other. So it's not just one side or the other.


I'm a son, Jamie. This right now, because this is from Newsweek. This is why it's really confusing.


This is from Newsweek and this is from a professor of epidemiology from I believe from. Yeah, from Yale School of Public Health. And he says the key to defeating covid-19 already exists, we need to start using it. And he's recommending hydroxy chloroquine.


Look at this like this is a fucking real problem.


This is a real doctor, a professor of epidemiology.


Like, what the fuck, yeah, no, I mean, and you see you see some folks coming out of some doctors coming out and saying, well, it doesn't it doesn't work in patients. And then it turns out you read further into the story and it doesn't work on patients who are already seriously ill. Yeah, right. That's what they're saying. Right.


And so but you have to the problem is nobody makes it past the headlines for the most part. Right. And more and more people are getting their bullshit information from Facebook, you know, user groups and nobody reads down. And, you know, to be fair, media outlets know that. So they'll bury the contradictory information, you know, in the 20th paragraph or something because they know no one's going to venture down there. Everybody looks at the headlines because you'll see that that convinces me or supports my theory.


But, yeah, I look at this and we've been doing everything you can do. We've been, you know, wearing masks. You know, I don't see what the bullshit is about. The masks wear a fucking mask when you're out in public while you get used to it.


Yeah, it's better.


Bandanas are way better. You can breathe better. Yeah. Yeah, it just looks good.


Yeah. You feel like. Yeah. If you get your horse wait outside gently.


Do you know that whole video where there's a bunch of doctors. It keeps getting removed from YouTube, Facebook when a bunch of doctors talking about hydroxy chloroquine and xpac and zinc, everybody's like you need to listen to this lady.


Then it turns out the lady believes that the cause of impotence is spirits and she thinks there's alien DNA in vaccines. Is that is that what she said?


Yeah, it's a little odd and completely off the reservation.


Yeah. You're not supposed to say that, right? I think you're not supposed to off the reservation. Oh, well, it's offensive to me. Damn it.


Yeah. OK, hold on. Let me make a note of that. When I didn't have a list of what's offensive, I was taught by a Native American lady that supposed say that one. Oh, she's off the chain.


I think you could say that offensive dogs put up a chain is good, right? It's not crazy shit. I need a new crazy term. What's a non offensive, crazy term? That's well, I shouldn't say not going to offend anybody because there's no such thing anymore.


Oh, fucking nuts. How about that? We just go with that now. Yeah, she's a doctor.


She's a legit doctor, but apparently she is nuts.


Yeah. What do you got Jamie? What did she say? OK, Summer reported that a twenty 2015 sermon that laid out a supposed Illuminati plan hatched by a witch to destroy the world using abortion, gay marriage and children's toys, among other things, Emanuel claimed that DNA from space aliens is currently being used in medicine.


OK, she also offered prayers through her website to remove generational curse is transmitted through placenta.


Yeah, yeah. Seems legit.


No, I see where she's coming from. Trump, address the video.


Hold on. It's like saying I think they're very respected doctors. There was a woman who was spectacular.


She was she was spectacular. I sent you to hear him say placenta, but he said of Hydroxycut and I happen to think it works in early stages. So that's the problem. See, when he says that and then the lady who believes in witchcraft says that he didn't like maybe it does work, but the problem is a fucking lady who believes in alien DNA and witchcraft, a generational curse is transmitted through placenta.


I wonder what's children's toys? I mean, I got kids now. I got to worry.


I mean, which ones would you assume I'm going to go with, Mr. Potato Head? Yeah, but yeah, I mean, most of my kids basically now all we got around the house, Nerf guns. Right. And so, like, any time. You're welcome.


Do you remember the Pink Panther when you'd walk or walk around the house and would like leap out if that's what it's like around my house now you're going to get popped in the earhole by a Nerf with a close range because you never know when they're going to sneak up on you and use these things. And so but that's about all we got. Any more that and we do have some Legos. So I'm hope she wasn't talking about Lego.


If she's talking about Legos, then we know she's really crazy.


Yeah, but I think to your point, again, you know, part of this is it would be nice if. If the messaging from the White House was was better, let's face it, on a number of things, we wouldn't have quite the chaos that we do right now.


Well, he's basically using the same strategy. Used to be a famous person. You know, he says wacky shit. He speaks off the cuff. He doesn't care. It doesn't have a filter. And you can't. You just can't. And it seemed like you could do that and become president. But you can't do that and be president like people are not willing to, like, let you talk like that while you're the president. You have to know exactly what the fuck you're saying.


What do you think's going to happen in November? That's a good question. I'm not listen, I'm not buying these polls. I'll tell you that I don't believe them because first of all, who the fuck is answering polls? Who I've always said that's right. The dumbest people in the world are the ones who answer polls. So out of the dumbest people in the world with nothing to do, most of them are picking Biden or more of them are picking Biden, but says who says all of the media outlets that want Trump to lose.


How do we know how do we know if they're being accurate?


I mean, look, I believe there is a large group of people that are very uncomfortable with Donald Trump being the president. I absolutely believe that. I believe there is an also large group of people that are very uncomfortable with a man who seems to be mentally compromised, winning the election and doing so by hiding. I mean, the guy's never he was just at another thing the other day and he forgot where he was. Did you see the video?


Yeah. Yeah, no. Until he comes out with his VP pick.




All bets are off as far as I'm concerned, on on Biden, that VP is going to have a bucket of lube and she's going to drink it in there and stuff her hand up his ass and she's going to be working him like Weekend at Bernie's. There is no way that guy's going to be doing any talking.


Yeah, I don't know if you do that. I guess physically you're going to have.


Yeah. Yeah. Kamala Harris is a strong woman. I think she could do it.


Yeah. Do you think she's. She could win. She could do it. Yeah. She, she would make sense to people because she's a powerful woman like you know, she's got to choose a former district attorney. She's a she's a powerful person. She's got you know, she's got name recognition. She's got that. She's got a commanding presence. Yeah.


But, you know, I think for what it's worth, I mean, a look, he's he's he did something kind of wacky. I understand why he did it, because, you know, that's the world we live in. But he he's backed himself into a corner and said, OK, I'm going with gender and demographics rather than, you know, I don't think most qualified person. So, OK, fine. That's what it is.


Very strange thing to do, though. Yeah, it is.


But you know, the Susan Rice I will put out a I would be much more comfortable with Susan Rice and I would be with Harris, frankly, just given the work that she's done, the things that she's done on National Security Council.


She was UN ambassador, she was assistant secretary of state.


She was national security adviser for four years.


I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up picking her because he worked with her very closely for eight years and she doesn't have the name recognition.


But I don't know that in this election cycle, that's as important as it has been in the past.


Isn't there some controversy with her regarding Benghazi?


There is. But and and rightly so. She went out. The whole story was she went out after.


Wow, how many years is that incredible going on? Eight years ago, September 11, 2012. So shortly afterwards, she went on TV. She did a series of interviews right afterwards, sort of the face of the administration talking about this. And she utilized a bunch of talking points that had been prepared by the intel community. Right. Led at the time by John Brennan and some others.


And in that that's where it famously blamed the video that came out in the protests in Cairo.


And then we got video. That movie. That movie. Yeah. Yeah. What you see, OK, look, I used to work for the CIA.


Used to I dunno if you still do. Let's be honest. Well, but used to start. I don't think we get out.


But that movie seemed like if there was any if there was ever some movie that was made to sort of be used as a cover up, that movie did not look like a real movie that.




Well, it was it wasn't really. I mean, it wasn't that was it wasn't a glamorous movie. It wasn't the people. What the fuck? Look, it was it was made by an independent filmmaker and it was perceived as very anti Islamic.


Yeah. And and but the bottom line was, I mean, for for Susan Rice, if you just look in because you're you've actually pinpointed the one chink in her armor.


Right. I can't say that anymore. You can still see chink in your arms. You have to say it quick, quick, OK. One, two, three, four in your arm. OK, so it's like you can say pussy cat because you can't say pussy.


You got to roll right through it.


Yes. OK. Oh yes. So that's the problem with her is the Benghazi issue. So but look.


The bottom line is, if you don't believe that Joe Biden is likely going to be the president for four years if he gets elected right for whatever reason, then the VP pick is incredibly important, more so than we've had in a long time and more so than ever. Yeah, more so than ever. Yeah.


And you want this to be a serious minded individual if you want to hang that, if you'd rather see him pick somebody like Karen Bass or Tammy Duckworth or someone rather than than someone who's had the range of experience within government that Susan Rice is, you know, again, I'm not shilling for Susan Rice.


I'm just saying, look, you prefer I would prefer her because I, I respect the those those areas that she's worked in. I'm more focused on our position overseas. I'm more focused on the foreign policy and that sort of thing. And I realize that she's taken this hit for Benghazi.


Of course she is rightly so. But, you know, this is a game of compromise. Do you explain why she took the hit, though, so? Well, it's kind of glossed over, but it was a movie, right? This movie was erroneously blamed for being the cause of the attack.


It wasn't the real cause, the attack. Now, what was the real cause of the attack?


Well, this attack was we you know, we we ignored, you know, signs of increasing activity in in Benghazi, at the consulate that we had there. We ignored at the time advice, you know, and suggestions that we beefed up our security out there and we allowed for a we didn't allow for, but we were not prepared for the attack that took place on September 11th in 2012.


And immediately afterwards, the line from the administration was, shit, nobody could have seen this coming right. Because, you know, there was a spontaneous protest because of this anti-Islamic movie. It was a hateful video. That's how they referred to it. And their talking points, a hateful video, and then it spread from Cairo. It spread all of a sudden, boom, it popped up in Benghazi and we had this terrible and now, you know, then they tried to back it up a little bit by going, oh, yes, some some some some jihadist elements, you know, hijacked that, you know, legitimate protest over a hateful video in Benghazi.


And who could have seen that coming? Bottom line was, they should have seen it coming. So, yes, she should take some some flak for that. But I guess my point is we got to compromise at some point.


If you know and I again, it's not like I'm still amazed that, OK, 2016, we had a choice between Clinton and Trump, 2020, we got a choice between Biden and Trump. What the fuck happened to our country? Right, three point thirty plus million people. And this is what we got.


Right. But I'm just saying, you've got you so you're going to have to set aside some of your concerns and figure out who is going to be best suited.


Why don't they just have Susan Rice run as president? Because, like she said, she would have a legitimate chance.


Well, not again, not without the name recognition. Right. And there's still a lot there's still a lot of game that gets played, a lot of theater and politics and also, oh, my God, have they ever run for president before? And so that's what Harris has going for. And I'm not saying she's not capable. She's certainly capable.


But but again, look, here's the thing I'm more comfortable with, with Republican policies related to foreign policy, related to security, national security concerns related to the economy.


To some degree, Republicans aren't fiscally conservative anymore.


You know, I'm small government, but I'm more aligned with that. The fact that I don't like the character or the behavior of of Trump. Right.


I mean, that I disagree with the fact that he's you know, he gets out there, he doesn't have an edit button. Doesn't mean I don't appreciate the things that the administration does in certain areas like our China policy or other things.


So I think the Democrats make a mistake thinking, OK, well, people don't like Trump, so they're going to vote for this this thing over here.




And if this thing is a hybrid between Joe Biden, Bernie Sanders, who, you know, got shafted once again in this, you know, this round of Democratic primaries, and if they if they tilt hard left.


It doesn't mean just because you don't like Trump as an individual, that suddenly you're OK with hard left policies, but I think the Democrats make that mistake.


They think they think that that's the solution to Trump goes far away from him as possible and then find a center. I think exactly that's the solution. I think the solution somewhere in the center. And when when you see shit like what's happening in Portland and Seattle, I think people are more aware than ever now that civil unrest is like it's it's very strange. It's very strange to watch them try to break into that. What was the building in Portland?


They were trying the Hatfield courthouse, the federal courthouse.


That was insane. Yeah, watching that was insane. I don't understand the motivation, like connecting that to how I how do you connect that in Portland, the most liberal city in the country?


How do you how do you arguably write? Probably the most liberal.


Yeah, the most progressive model. Yeah. Portland right there. How do you connect that to Black Lives Matter. I mean, how do you connect that to George Floyds Death. How do you connect that to why. Why, why. I just don't understand. Why would you try to break into the courthouse to trying to recreate what went wrong, what didn't work in Seattle. Right.


That whole zone. Thomas Yeah. Yeah, that didn't work. I mean, that was nonsense. It was crazy. You made a worse version of American Six Blocks. It's like one of those little tiny little, you know, like if you took a glass dome and you put, like, little animals in there and let them eat each other alive, I was like, we're going to we're going to create utopian glass. Like they made a worse version of the United States.


They put up borders immediately. They stop people from coming in. They had armed guards. They wound up using police. They didn't have cops. But they have people that act like cops, beat the fuck out of people for filming the whole thing. It's madness. They had murders.


It was it was it's quick. It's I mean, look, Portland I know Portland extremely well. My parents, you know, lived in Portland for a couple of decades. Beautiful place.


It used to be a really a hell of a place. But over the years and, you know, I know Republicans and Democrats who feel the same way who were in Portland and the surrounding area, and they all feel like this place is slowly, you know, circling down a toilet because of local and state management. Right. And so what happened in Portland? Not really a surprise.


You know, it's it's a shame that the people that that that do this sort of activity. Right. That that, you know, have been referred to as an tifo or anarchists or whatever. The same sort of trust, a fairy and, you know, bottom feeding folks in really any city in the world who engage in a WTO protest because it's cool to get out there and protest. What I don't understand the mentality, but if you try to figure out a motivation for them, you know, you'll lose your mind because they definitely don't have one.


You could take ten of those people out of Portland who are engaged in sort of the violent activity and ask them, or why are you doing this?


And you'll get 10 different answers. They really don't have. It's not like that. And they've.


The sad part about it is they they hijacked very legitimate protests. Yes.


Over, you know, really serious, important questions about how do we how do we improve policing around the country?


How do we get to that point?


And I tell you, the most disappointing part about it is after after the tragedy with George Floyd. If the focus had been on, OK, here's what we have to do, we have to. Seriously, not just lip service, we have to improve the policing to solve this particular issue, how do we do that? Well, there's certain logistical things you can do. You can improve your vetting and hiring of police candidates.


Right, of applicants for the job. You can do that. That's a that's a protocol you can put in place. You can improve the training that costs money. So defining the police is kind of fucked. You can you can improve the training and make it continuous. It's not just a one time thing. It's a continuous training on how to respond to situations.


It's like it's like weapons training.


If you don't keep doing it, if you're not always practicing, it just doesn't work. Right. And then what can you do? You can also improve disciplinary action. Those are concrete things that you can do. They're not easy. Right.


But it's it's not as heavy a lift as deciding in the aftermath of the George Floyd tragedy that what we're really going to do is we're going to remove racism from the hearts and minds of people think this is not going to happen.


Right. I'd like to think it would in theory. Hey, great, get rid of racism.


But you know what? You what this should have been was a protest about doing things that actually will impact meaningfully people's lives.


And in it in it veered off because people wanted to feel self-righteous. It veered off into what you have to prove how poor you are.


You have to remove racism right now.


I know I know black people that object to white people. I know white people that object to people, not of their race. I know Hispanics are the only people of of non Hispanics.


Racism exists, sad to say. Right. And all mankind. It's a human element of nature.


Would you rather spinning your wheels and act self-righteous and try to say, well, we're we're going to have this exercise where we remove racism from from mankind? Would you rather say in the aftermath of this, let's do the things that can actually make a difference? And that's what we didn't do. And then legitimate protests over over the anger and frustration about all this got further hijacked by, again, anti for anarchist, whatever you want to think.


That's a big part of the problem. You know, Ben Shapiro and I had this conversation about the the protests and this this term where they are large, mostly peaceful protests. And he had a hilarious point.


He said OJ Simpson had a mostly peaceful night the night he killed his wife. It was only three minutes of the entire day that wasn't peaceful. Like that is a fucking great point.


Yeah, but but it is true in the protests that most of those people want the world to be a better place right now. The problem is the people that hijacked that and are trying to light the federal buildings on fire and smashed monuments, you know, particularly I mean, like they're going after Abraham Lincoln. I mean, Jesus Christ, he's the guy that freed the fucking slaves. Like, what are we doing? Are we going to erase history?


Yeah, well, I would have loved if Abraham Lincoln could have had a time machine and gone to twenty twenty and understood what we know now about systemic racism. However, he lived in the seventeen hundreds when you wrote with a fucking feather. OK, give the guy a break. The world was it was a weird place back then.


Well and that's, and that's part of it is trying to trying to judge people of the past by current morals or current understanding.


Current thinking is is is pretty absurd. Right.


It doesn't justify past bad actions. But you know what, this idea. Yeah.


That you're going to erase history or remove history or not learn from it going forward is it discredits the ability of people to have rational thought. Right.


To to understand and look at a context, looking at something in context and say, OK, nowadays that's unacceptable. But OK, I get, you know, why these things occurred. It's tragic or it's regrettable, whatever.


But I mean, look at in the UK, they were you know, they were attacking the statue of Churchill. Yeah. I mean, that's crazy. Yeah.


And I mean, I think I said I just say Lincoln seventeen eighteen hundred eighteen sixty 1865. Right. But either way the idea that this guy is supposed to be a perfect person back then, look, history is supposed to be about the things that happen, the people that made a difference and how we got to where we are today. And Lincoln is a big part, the 1865 the Emancipation Proclamation. That's a big part of how we are who we are today.


It's look, it's horrible that the early settlers brought over slaves from Africa. It's horrible that slaves still exist today. All these things are horrible. They're horrible. But taking down statues of people that made a difference and made change. Look, if you want to take if you want to take down statues of Confederate generals and stuff like that, there's a good argument there. It's a good argument that maybe we shouldn't have those or maybe we should have them somewhere.


You know, like in the same place we have a statue of Genghis Khan, right. Maybe they shouldn't be. You know, I'm saying, is there a statue of getting as I'm sure there is. Yeah, somewhere somewhere in Mongolia. There's got to be right. The Genghis Khan killed 10 percent of the fucking popular. While he was alive, but it doesn't mean there shouldn't be some recognition of this historical figure when you're talking about 2020.


Well, I think interestingly and this doesn't again, you know, you can. You can. The problem is nowadays, right?


You've got you've got sort of the righteous mob on the left and the righteous mob on the right. And the problem people make is, is they try to placate one side or the other, thinking somehow they're always going to they're going to be pure enough. You're never pure enough for the self-righteous mob, no matter where they are on the spectrum. Right.


They're always find a new benchmark. There's always that opportunity. But, you know, a lot of the Confederate statues out there were put up in an effort to in the sounds weird, but in an effort to try to unify the country again. Right in the aftermath of the civil war.


And there was this element of saying, let's try to.


And so you think, OK, that's a lot of them were put up actually during the civil rights right. There were put up when they were thinking that people were getting too high falutin. You wanted to sell that. And that's absolutely true. That was the really cheap ones to use. True. They're really shitty made because they made a real quick.


But I mean, so the point being is. I agree. Yeah. If you want to take those down. Well, sure. Yeah. I mean, why would you have a statue of some Confederate leader. Fine. Take it out. Take it off the streets. That makes I get that right. That and if that helps people feel terrific, put it in a museum or what are you going to do with it.


But George Washington. George Washington. Yeah I know exactly.


Abraham Lincoln was funny when they were taken down Confederate statues. Trump once said, what's next? You going to take down George Washington? And everyone was laughing like they're not going to do that, but yet they are going to do that now. Yeah.


Yeah. And, you know, and two things, again, as always, can be true. At the same time, somebody could be, you know, doing some things you disagree with vehemently. They could have also done something that helped move the country forward, did something that had extreme positive.


That's the biggest con argument. You know, they opened up trade with China in the process of killing 10 million people to open up trade with the and see a free trader.


I didn't know that. Yes. A free trade guy, free trade skyscraper.


Your first naft and murderer. Yeah. He killed so many people. They changed the carbon footprint of the earth. Yeah. Like, I have this crazy article about it.


He literally killed 10 percent of the people on Earth, but he was an angry man.


Look, it's awful that we have history that's filled with terrible acts and deeds, but I don't think that removing statues of people who tried to make a difference, you know, within the context of their their time, you know, with Lincoln 1865, with George Washington. Seventeen hundreds. I mean, this is you're talking about people that when they were doing this, they were the best example of humanity that you could find. They were the best example of what we had.


I mean, when George Washington was the first president of the United States. I mean, you want to talk about a fucking radical undertaking, this crazy experiment in self-government while they escape from the grasp of of Europe.


I mean, it's really nuts. Yeah.


And again, I think there's an element here that. We missed the we missed the boat maybe again, right, we've gone through this, it's not like we haven't had protests before, you know, Black Lives Matter protests and over the same issues of police brutality and all that. But it all falls into that same bucket from my perspective, that we we don't do the hard things right.


The hard things would have been to say from a local, state and federal position, let's enact these different protocols that can improve policing. Let's do those things that we need to do. That's a heavy lift. In a way, the easier things are.


Let's tear down the statue. Right. Or, you know, find find a way to to to make us feel better about ourselves without necessarily having it. And it's like this this shell game.


I think that the politicians sometimes play that and you see it. You saw it in Portland where, you know, OK, let's just placate this for a while.


I don't make everybody feel better and then they'll protest, will die down. Well, Seattle's the best example, right?


When the mayor came out and said it, maybe it's the summer of love. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. 67, the summer of love.


They totally squash that. Now that that whole place brought back to the original business owners.


I don't know is the answer to that question.


I do know that they've you know, they've been looking at how do we do community based policing, how do we defend the police and yet still have something that resembles a response to the citizens need for security?


I don't know what any of all that dribble means.


If you want to if you want to improve the policing, it's an investment, right? It's not defunding.


But again, the funding and saying that and saying as what I'm for, it's a fucking way. Right, to feel good and to placate people. And then you don't do shit. And then five years from now, we have another incident because you didn't actually do the things that make policing better or you get where you got in New York City.


It begins it gets even worse for the citizens because now the police don't have any faith at all in the government. They're not respected. They're not appreciated. And you've seen this giant uptick in crime because their presence isn't there anymore. Yeah, I mean, it's really crazy, man. It's like a movie. I've never thought if you went back to March when we shut down, I never thought I would be sitting here with you at the end of July, early August here, and we would be talking about this.


I would have never thought this would have taken place, that we would have legitimate civil unrest in this country, people getting shot in the streets and protests. You know, I know that there's a real concern that a lot of these cities that someone's going to try to recreate what happened in Seattle, recreate what happened in Portland, and they're worried about it.


The thing about it is it seems so organized. It really does. It doesn't seem that haphazard. It seems organized. How does how does how do these things get started? Like how do you get something as big as these Portland riots?


Well, you know, it's a it's a really good question. And sometimes what you see is a what appears to be a grassroots movement or grassroots activity happening, just kind of swelling up from from a couple of neighborhoods.


Yes, there was an element of that. But you also see like if you're talking about. You know, talking about activist environmental groups as an example, you'll also see some commonality between some of these groups, you'll see commonality in in communications, advice and financing, in legal assistance and support from national groups.




And yet it's in there. It's in their agenda. It's to their advantage to make it appear as if it's a grassroots movement. So that all stays in the background. I'd argue that, you know, yes, some of this and again, not to disappear down some rabbit hole where it's a George Soros funded.


That's where I was going.


Yeah, but I mean, you know, is there are there are some elements that help with communication support or transportation assistance or legal advice or whatever it may be. Absolutely.


You know, these things, they they very rarely is there an actual genuine organic grassroots movement that has no outside organizational support. It's this spontaneous and this is big.




So but again, you know, look, we get we're putting our tinfoil hats on, but if anybody can put that on, you can put them on. I left mine out in the car, but. Yeah, but I'll get it.


You've been on the inside, you know, working for the CIA. You know how it works.


Well, we very rarely organized things like that's not what I'm saying. I don't I'm not saying that, you know. Yeah, you guys did it. I'm saying you understand how these people operate. Right. Right. Now, I know the way that someone like me doesn't. And also, you know, again, look at you know, we've talked about this in the past, but I'm not I'm not necessarily a conspiracy theorist.


But sometimes, yes, sometimes, you know, you got to follow the threads of that you can pull on. And sometimes it takes you down an interesting path and you think, OK, maybe there is something to this.


I wouldn't say you're a conspiracy theorist, but I would say you're open to the possibility of conspiracy. Like when you and I talked about the Martin Luther King assassination. Yeah. And you you took a big pause and you said that one does not make sense.


Yeah, no, I agree. I still feel that way. Yeah. Yeah. That one is filled with holes. Yeah. And I agree as well. I looked into it much more after you and I talked and it's. Yeah, that's very strange.


And the way that you sometimes can get actually further into it without kind of disappearing down some of these, you know, peripheral side stories and issues is is money. I look for look for funding, look for issues of of where did money go, because that sometimes will take you down a more legitimate path. And a lot of times investigations get built on very shaky ground because you start with a theory or whatever and you never starting on firm ground. But sometimes when you follow the money, it it keeps you a little more grounded, right?


Yeah. Follow the money. Well, that's the thing with this.


It's like where is the money coming from. Like where where is the money coming from that organizes and and helps these people get out of jail and and all that jazz.


Well, and there's certain things that. Let's go back to Portland for a minute, OK? One of the problems is I think the media journalism in general, you know, isn't anywhere near as curious or concerned with investigation as it used to be.


Right. It's it's easier now to just say this is where I'm at. I'm subjective. Of course I'm subjective, you know? And so here I go.


Here's my here's the idea of objectivity in journalism is pretty much out the window with Portland early on, for instance, they they publish the mug shots and names of I think there were maybe a dozen of the individuals who were arrested for violent activity and violent activity.


Now, a curious journalist you would have thought would have said, let's do some research, let's look at all these people and let's look at their backgrounds. You know, it's already public information. They've already posted it.


Let's dig into this and find out who are these people? Are there any linkages or any commonalities between all these individuals? Can we find something that's interesting there? Maybe we won't, but let's do some investigation. I you know, you'd like to think that's what journalism used to be and, you know, but it doesn't seem like it is anymore. But that doesn't happen.


I think there's a problem. And here's one of the problems. Most journalists are left wing. There's a giant number.


I don't know what the percentage of is, but if you want to go with whether it's Newsweek or CNN or The New York Times, The Washington Post or many, many, many, many of these papers and organizations lean left. There's a dirty secret. The dirty secret is antifa acts as the thug enforcers of the left. The people that do things like this, whether you approve of violence or disapprove of violence, what they're doing is they they act as the people doing the dirty work that many people in the left think has to be done in order to enact real change.


Now, if you had the same thing in the right, imagine my friend Tim Dillon said this. Imagine if the proud boys were lighting Portland on fire. Right. Do you imagine if we had a Democratic president and the proud boys? We're trying to break into the courthouse and light Portland on fire.


People would go fucking crazy. It would be terrifying if it was a different political ideology, but the same exact actions. So because these actions are done with the correct political ideology, you know, under the guise of, you know, racial justice, under the guise of reforming our government. So then everybody's OK with people literally burning books, throwing books on a pile. I mean, it's a Bible, so go ahead. It's getting crazy. They're burning Bibles.


What does the Bible have to do with it? The Bible gives a lot of people comfort. Whether you believe in it or not. You're throwing stacks of Bibles and then you lighting them on fire in front of a courthouse or if they've been throwing the Koran. Right. Good.


A very good example. A very good example.


We'd all be losing our minds. But Pelosi, you know, Nancy Pelosi came out and said, well, people are going to do what they're going to do. Oh, really, Nancy? Really, she's she's an odd duck.


That lady. She's decided to call it Trumps virus now. Yeah. Yeah. She's obviously fucking with them. Which part of it I appreciate.


It's kind of it's kind of adorable. Well, it came out when when when Herman Cain passed away and he came out and said, well, he's very sad. He passed away from the China virus.


You know, he just keeps doing it because he knows he does this and he and he knows he can hijack a news cycle. Right. And he came out with this idea of, you know, the election and the possibly a delay because, you know, the post office and he knows what he's doing and everybody rises to the bait, right? Yeah. He knows there's no way in hell they're going to delay the election. Not going to happen now.


Ideally, he wouldn't have thrown that out there just to, you know, get a rise and just to steal the election, you know, over the news cycle.


But. He does it, why? Why do you think he said that? Well, I think he was trying to I a I think because what do I know? But it almost seems like he just enjoys right.


Fucking with people. Yeah. And I think he knows what he's going to get, which is again, what he got, which is a couple of days of oh my God, hand-wringing. And I told you he's a dictator and of course he's going to.


And and then my favorite narrative of the left is, well, he's not going to leave if he loses in November, he's not going to leave. Yeah, that's my absolute favorite narrative from the left so far. Yeah, I keep hearing that, but I've seen no evidence that that's true.


Well, if you repeat something often enough, then it gets to be true.


It was like when when we had the the chemical weapons issue in Iraq, I remember we had one source and then but if you if you report that and it gets into reporting channels and then somebody else mentions it or refers to it, and then you got two mentions up now and pretty soon people forget it only came from one source of information.


Elon Musk, please hurry up with your neural link so we could read each other's minds. And people can't lie anymore. It's so important.


Wouldn't that be nice? It's so important. He's on the he's ready to go, man. I'm telling you where we are two or three years away from being able to reach others.


Mind I tell you what, that would be brilliant, because I used to I used to say that at the agency, we used to get boxed fairly regularly. Ah, polygraph very regularly. And I hated the polygraph. And my polygraph was huge because I you know, I'm one of those I'm a I'm a kind of a I don't want to say I'm a puritan, but I'm one of those Quaker people.


Feels guilty about everything. Right. I feel like if I took a pencil when I was a three year old, you know, my God, I'm going to I got to confess it. Right. So I. I had a hell of a time doing polygraphs. Right. And then and then I get irritated with the examiners. Right. One time I had one of the examiners say, you seem to know a lot of foreign people.


And I lost my mind like something.


And so I literally went after her and said, you know what job I do to know what what my my my fucking job is.


And I just snapped. I didn't. And protect fucks like you. Yeah. So like, what do you mean?


I seem to know a lot of foreign people and so but I used to say all the time, I said, man, if they could just like make a calendar that would come down on your head, read your thoughts. I would be happier than a pig and shit because then I could have been out of this thing. Come in five minutes.


Look, I'm happy to admit my faults. I'll tell you. I'll tell you exactly what's on my mind. It's not all pretty, but I'll let you in. I'm a good person, but yeah, I have dark thoughts sometimes.


Go ahead, take a look. But I'll do that if you'll do that. I don't want any lies. The lies are the problem, the distortions of the truth. Did you imagine the implosion of media? If we had mind reading and we find out exactly what's going on in The New York Times, exactly what's going on, The Washington Post, exactly what's going on. Whenever you see questionable stories you like, what the fuck is this? Is this true?


Is is bullshit? Is this is this propaganda? Who's telling them to write this? Why are they writing like this? What is what's the narrative behind this?


What do they get away with? It's got bullshit. Incurious public. Right. I would argue in part. Right. I think they're overwhelmed.


Well, yeah. Yeah. Overwhelmed by information. I don't know if it's a curious thing. It's a matter I think that's one of the things we're dealing with now with all this activity. People have more free time. They don't have obligations because they can't work. Yeah. Because so many folks are fucked and they're out of work. That makes people more apt to be activist, more active, more apt to get out there on the streets more. And it creates actually more chaos because you're you're having more people involved in these things and they really don't have anything else to do with their time.


And when you're out there, you're screaming and you're fucking holdin arms and you're saying, you know, we will overcome. You really think like you are doing something. I mean, it really does. I'm sure it feels good. I know a lot of this is about, you know, feeling like I mean, you're you're making a difference, right? Yeah.


Even if you even if you aren't I don't know whether we talked about this before, but I think one of the you're absolutely right. There's they're overwhelmed with information because we have so many more outlets. Yeah. It's just so many outlets for gathering information.


People are reading social media all day, all day, but very little else. That's real.


What drives me crazy is, I mean, you just do what you can. You could spend five minutes doing it, right. Just go when you're walking around it. Maybe not now because everybody's hiding in their hidey hole.


But, you know, just just the constant with the phone. Yeah. If people have five seconds of free time on their hands, I don't know what to do. So they get their phones. It's OK. Well, you know, if nothing else, at least I look like everybody else staring at my phone.


But I think one of the interesting things is with news dissemination is you go back to, you know, the 50s, 60s, 70s. We had a shared moment, right every day for the most part.


Right. Everybody would sit down at whatever, five o'clock or eleven o'clock across the country and you'd watch the news on one of three, basically three outlets, ABC, NBC or CBS.


And so for that moment, if you think about it, the vast majority of people who were paying attention news were getting their their news delivered from the same one of three sources.


There was a there was a commonality there and they would, you know, process it differently based on their own experiences and beliefs.


But at least there was that point of. Commonality and that disappeared, that doesn't happen anymore. Right, and and I don't you know, I don't know where I'm going with that. I just banging on about it. But I find it interesting.


There's no objective news source anymore. That's a problem as well. There's a left wing source in a right news source. There's no straight up Walter Cronkite person that's given us the facts.


Well, Walter had had his had his own, you know, maybe leaves, too. Well, no, no, no. But it's as close as you're going to get to a good example. You just didn't know it. It wasn't in your face.


I would like to see someone today that tells you the real facts, you know? Well, I've said this before is it's a cash heavy business. If you had to if you had the capital to set up an outlet that simply told you what the fuck happened that day. Right. And here's your news.


Am I going I'm not going to have any opinion hours. I'm not going to have any any commentary. We're not going to have a panel discuss it and tell us what it might mean. We're just going to we're going to take that top events of the day and maybe two or three times a day. Here's your news. We're going to take the time to research. And that was the other thing about having a newscast at 5:00 and a newscast at 11:00.


You had all day long as as as a as a media business to check your facts, to get it right.




And you weren't playing Beat the Clock with every book, with a with a smartphone.


Right. Who now thinks they're a blogger or vlogger or whatever. So. Yeah, but I think that would be I think I actually be very successful because I think people do want they want the the ability or the comfort of thinking, yeah, maybe this is legitimate, maybe they want they want someone who's pure that way.


I think the only people that are doing it like that are independents. There is a few of them out there. There's a few of them that are just telling. They're calling it like they see it. If you want political information, my sources are called Kolinsky, Jimmy Door and the Hill. Those are the ones that I go to because they'll they'll call out people on both sides and they least show the problems of the hills. A particularly good show because you have Cristol, who's on the left, and Soga, who's on the right.


And they're honest and they're intelligent and they talk about things. They disagree, but they're they're also friends and they've been on the podcast together. But they'll tell you, here's the issues. And this is this is why this is wrong and this is why this is corrupt. And here's the influences. And this is this is where, you know, you're being misled and but you can deliver you could deliver the news, think about it.


Even open on the political side, even reporting on Capitol Hill. You can deliver the news. You can say, you know, during the course of today, this is what happened.


Yes. Right now, it's not going to blow anybody's skirt up because it's not exciting and it's not titillating. And it's not you know, it doesn't fire you up to to hate the other side.


But you could do it. It's just, you know, again, it's it's a talk about setting up, you know, field offices. And it's it's it's an expensive business.


And to do it and to be completely unbiased. Yeah. You're going to have a lot of people working for you. Well, good luck keeping them all unbiased, especially today. If you're getting some kid fresh out of college and he's twenty two or she's, you know, you know, getting her graduate degree, you're going to get kids that have gone through this system that we're trying to trying to rectify.


The university system today is filled with wog politics. Yeah. They're indoctrinating kids in a lot of these kids that are getting out.


They have this idea in their head before their frontal lobe is even fully formed of what is good and what is bad and what is right, what is wrong and what you're supposed to do.


You know, a lot of it is like it's it's it's really distorted and weird when my daughter, who my daughter, who works in Washington, D.C., know it's getting a really good look at how government works when she was in college. And she's you know, she's more Republican than most, you know, of her friends that were in college, you know, because to your point, it's very liberal. She used to talk about that.


She said she rarely had a debate. She really had a moment where she would speak up in class and take the opposite point because there's no upside to it.


Yeah, I just want to get good grades. Yeah. People think you're a racist and the professor will hate you. Right.


And that was it. And that was a big part of it. She said, look, I my my goal here was to get good grades.


And it was clear that, you know, taken the opposite position from the professor or the or the the teaching assistant wasn't going to get me where I wanted to be.


You're fucked. Yeah. And you and people adapt to that's the other thing about human beings. When you're confronted by a large majority of people that think one way you will change and amend your thinking to fit in. We don't like to be on the outside. We don't like to be you know, there's a few very strong minded rebels out there in the world.


But most people are conformists.


Most people just they think they're rebellious, but they're rebellious, along with a group of other people that think almost the exact same way. And those are the people they hang out with. Right.


I got on the tube one time. I was living in London a few years back and. And it was during there was there was it wasn't the mullet craze, it was the goatee craze, right. There was every dude was wearing a goatee.


So I came back from I was in Africa where I was working overseas.


But while I was I was out there before I went back to London, I figured, I'll go go to it seems to be the thing to do. So I grew a goatee, but I get back to London and I literally is like the next day I was back.


I get on the tube and I walk into the car. I'm standing there and I look down to the car. And every dude in that car had a goatee.


And I thought, Oh, fuck. So I went home and shaved. But I guess my point is, is that you're right. You want to you want to you want to be a rebel.


But I'm only going to be a rebel with a bunch of other people.


You know, you're typically unique. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So it's a bit of but it's part of being a human being, you know. And I think we need to recognize that. We need to understand that this plays a large part in your belief system. It's not necessarily that you're right or that you're wrong and be very, very wary of people who say they are right.


I am right because we're right. We know because we're right and they're wrong. What's a cancer culture?


It's a cancer culture to us is a big part of it. It's part of being a fool. Yeah. Yeah. There's certain things you could be right about. You could be right about mathematics. You could be right about chemicals and you could be right about science. You'd be right about things. But when it comes to political things and sociological things, when it comes to matters of culture, there's opinions, you know, and sometimes, you know, opinions vary and there's a spectrum along with it.


And there's some people that that hold that opinion that are really fucking crazy. And there's other people that are very reasonable that hold a similar opinion. But they have a justification for it and they have a rationalization for it. They have thought behind it. Yeah.


And this is, you know, one of the beautiful things about doing a podcast like this is what we're talking about, like phones, like leaving your phone for three hours. I don't touch that goddamn thing. And I get to have a one on one conversation with someone where we're locked in with headsets, where your voice is as loud as my voice and it's in my head. We're look at each other across the table. It's a very unusual thing.


And it's been a massive education for me. Yeah. Massada to be able to talk to people like you and all the interesting and intelligent people that I get to talk to. It's changed who I am as a human being. And I talk to you.


And then and then I talk to the folks that are interesting and intelligent and intelligent, but not my man.


I think the the cancer culture thing and the and the this idea that, you know, that people want to think in absolutes. Again, I go back to the same point all the time, which is like, you know, be careful, everybody just be careful because you're never going to be pure enough. And then you start seeing everybody getting devoured.


And Matt Taibbi had a good example of that when he was talking about Alex Jones getting kicked off of Twitter. And he's like, whether you agree with Alex Jones or not agree with Alex Jones, this is a bad thing. He's like because it's not going to stop. He goes, when you tell a guy you're not allowed to have those opinions and those thoughts and we're going to remove you from the discourse, you can no longer participate in communication. You set a precedent and that you're going to have a slippery slope and then it's going to come for you because the standards are going to change.


And you're seeing that. You're seeing that with with liberals. You're seeing that with people who are liberal. But don't tow the line about maybe specific gender issues or trans issues or or whatever it is.


It was from The New York Times. I mean, right there he is, my friend, and she's about as liberal as you can get. Perfect example. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, she's a feminist. She's a Jewish woman. She's super smart and intelligent and educated, but she's also independent enough to understand like that. There's a fucking cult going on this WOAK cult and people are going to wake up to it.


You know, my friend Brigitte Fennessy, she found a journal that she wrote when she was twenty four. And she's, you know, she's in her 40s now. She's laughing. I hope she's in her forties.


I didn't feel she's not happy.


Thirties now she's white, late twenties. She's 13 years old. She's wise beyond her years. But she's a very she's she's thirty nine.


Google her. Thirty seven, whatever, she's awesome, I love her. She doesn't look a day over forty one, but she read something that she wrote and she was 24 and she's like, Jesus Christ, I've read it. She's like, I must have been. She goes, I was like AOC back then. She goes, I was so crazy. It was embarrassing to read. And now having more life experience and encountering more hypocrisy and craziness and people.


Now she has a more nuanced and balanced perspective. How old she is 41.


Yeah, I look at them, bro. What did I say. See their forties, forties, son of a bitch in the 40s.


I felt bad that I aged my friend. But there's a lot of people like that. Look, man, when I was in my early 20s, I was probably well, I'm pretty liberal now, but I was probably even more liberal back then. I just I think that there's there's a certain amount that I really like about Republicans, the value of hard work and discipline, family values, all those things, particularly as of, you know, become a father and, you know, and become, you know, someone who makes money and understands where taxes go and understands fiscal ways.


I'm a fiscally conservative person, but I'm a socially very liberal person. And I find myself like a man without an island. I don't know.


I agree with you again. I'm small government. You know, I. I think everybody just got to stay out of everybody's kitchen. I don't understand the the interest in social issues. I mean, you know, people as long as you don't hurt anybody else, I don't give a fuck.


Yeah. Whatever. If that makes you happy. Godspeed.


Yeah, but can I say Godspeed anymore. I think you could still say that. OK, I'm going to say it together. Right. This guy is God.


Yeah. That's kind of a gender issue. I don't know if there's no way.


No way. Norway has no gender. Yeah.


Always sounds like a chain of gas stations on the highway so. Yeah. Yeah it was a convenience store attached to Slurpee. Oh I used to love Slurpee Cola Cola Slurpee. They're delicious.


I like that blue one. Whatever the fuck that is.


That blue non-natural they all that I drove to the boys finish swim team the other day and I had all three of them, Scooter and Sluggo and Mugsy in the car. And I said I you know, let's stop you guys hungry. And of course because they're young, they're like, yeah, let's go to McDonald's.


So I asked Mugsy, the youngest, I said, what do you want? He says, Nuggets.


And in that blue thing, I said, Well, so I got to the windows. It's going out. You and I said, Yeah, I'll take ten piece nuggets in that medium blue thing. I had no idea what it was.


It's raspberry flavored blue raspberries. It's like slushy something.


But raspberries aren't blue. Not that I know of. But once you finish manipulating them in the DNA, I whoknows genetically modified raspberries.


But so.


Yeah, but I know I'm thinking about Slurpee Summit.


It's a delicious beverage. I wish it wasn't so fucking terrible for you.


And I wish I didn't give you brain freezes because I'm greedy. When I get a good Slurpee I get it and then I go, oh the brain freeze.


They say you're supposed to rub your tongue on the roof, your mouth, stop the brain.


And you do that also to stop sneezing. Oh. Which now is like the you know, I somebody sent me that. I'm sure I know who even came up with this, but they said that sneezing a public is now the equivalent of shitting your pants in public is so freaked out about confirms the worst. Coughing Yeah. Yeah.


My dog does a reverse sneeze. I was worried that he was like choking. And then the vet says, not like that's like a reverse sneeze. First of all, one of that one, one of my guys it works here told me that. And then I talked to the vet about it. So.


Yeah, and it seemed like he was joking, but it's like like a reverse sneeze. So I talk to me like, hey, man, you OK? And he's wagging his tail. Mike, he seems all right. Like I take him to a vet. What the fuck is that noise I just got? I got another dog get a golden doodle.


Hey. Yeah. Because we just decided, look, you know, we've always had big dogs. And I thought, well, let's get another dog. What the hell? And so it's part poodle.


Part golden retriever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And great, great, great personality. She's she's dumb as a brick but big. She's going to be she's going to be a big, a big guy about one hundred pounds.


Jesus. That's one big goal. And massive paws. It's already already bigger than we ever were. Big.


I don't know. She didn't want a big dog. Well no. We want another big dog to go with. The other one we've got now is Hendrix the. He's also an idiot. I should have just named immediate, but he's he's the greatest dog about what is he is he's an English golden retriever. Right. Oh, my God. I love golden retrievers, man.


Martial's the first golden retriever I've ever had. I just. Yeah, he's beautiful. You had him here the last time. I was so beautiful.


I can't get over how much I love that dog. Yeah. They look at you with, like, everything they got. They just stare at you and they just say whatever.


When I wake up in the morning, he waits for me outside the bedroom door. And then we have this little like. Routine I call, good morning, sir, good morning. He starts going. He picks it Toye up.


He has to have a toy in his mouth for whatever. You know, Goldens always want to have something to show.


He's got like he goes and gets his a box of toys was so spoiled. It's like a box of stuffed animals. He runs over, grabs a toy and comes over.


Who hoo to go.


Good morning, sir. Good morning. And you know, usually we go work out together.


Yeah. Ours ours will spend all day out in the compound trying to catch squirrels. He's fascinated with squirrels like a lot of dogs are. But but he's he's never got one. But he's convinced. And that's the great thing about retrievers. They're always optimist. Marshall's got one and he got it. Got pulled down from Instagram. It's the only picture Marshals' picture with him on a squirrel. And his mouth was apparently offensive. It was pulled from Instagram.


Could good.


I think it's still on my page. I shouldn't have said that. They'll find me.


Wait a minute. Wait a minute. So so it got pulled down because someone said, oh, my God, how could that have a squirrel? That's. Yes, because I don't know.


That's what dogs do. It's what cats do.


Well, what was going on was we had chickens and the squirrels were stealing the chickens food, OK? And Marshall, so they had it come and kill the chicken, but we would not allow that. So he found it amusing that squirrels were on the menu.


We had a terrier one time that would create a Jack Russell terrier. And and she in this in this cat we had, which is an outside cat, had a headache, had a deal. The cat would catch chipmunks, bring the Chipmunks still living to the Jack Russell. The Jack Russell would take the chipmunk, shake it to death.


Right. And then drop it and leave it for the cat. And the cat would bring the remainders, the entrails eventually to the front door and leave it kind of like laid out there, like an offering to it to to us.


That's strange. The cats do that. It's a weird thing. It's it's it's weird, but it's it's it's the way of the world.


The relationships, the cats to people is so bizarre because they're basically they've they just accept the fact that you're big enough.


They can eat you. Yeah, but everything's smaller than them. Is you true? I had a bit about it. You cannot have a pet cat and a pet gerbil in the room together at the same time like this.


No agreements like you can have a dog that's a good dog and you could have a pet gerbil and the dog's like, that's a fucking rat. Like, No, no, no. That's Mr Fluffy. Mr Fluffy.


He's our friend and dog. Be like, oh, ok, ok, ok. The doctor said, no, it's a fucking rat man. Are you sure that's a no. No it's not a rat.


That's a gerbil. He's our friend. A dog. If it's a good dog, there's no rules like that with cats.


Cats like you can go fuck yourself. The moment you let that go, he's going to kill that gerbil. It's one hundred percent of the time.


It's it's trying to make that sound. You know, the cats are exactly. Yeah, that's right. That starts moving really fast. They just know, oh my God, they're so focused on killing something.


They are murderers. They kill billions and billions of birds and mammals every year. House cats do. And when people find out that no scientist found out that, no, they were stunned. It wasn't that long ago.


Yeah, it was maybe a decade ago. They did an account of how many cats kill animals and what with the number of animals were I've seen it stunning it millions a year in this country.


You got to wonder, like, what would the ecosystem look like if it wasn't for cats?


Yeah, we got it. We've got a we got a hybrid house outdoor cat now that roams around the neighborhood and it comes back occasionally when he wants to hang out. And and yeah, it's the same thing, right.


Well, at least he's out in the fucking chain. He's in the food chain. Right. If your cat is out there, he's risking his own ass, too. There's owls and hawks. Yeah. Yeah. They will take your fucking cat out, especially where we are, man.


I tell you, I saw it wasn't that long ago driving down by the river, saw this hawk come down just bam, hit the water, came up with a nice trout.


Oh, God. It's so. Wow. Hawk took a trout out. Right. I know eagles do it ratable. Yeah. These guys just know they can.


It's fascinating. It's again, you know what I've been advised before I came out here not to talk well about boys, to talk well about boys. In fact, they had people sending me notes saying, just tell Jo we're full up.


The women are ugly. It's just like all this bull shit. Just say shut up about, you know, when I did that show down there. Yeah. I was saying to myself, I was I even said to the audience, I said, I get it. You guys are going to keep this a fucking secret. Yeah, yeah. Boys, boys, I'm going say it last time. This is it. Last night was last night.


Great fucking place. It's great fucking place to come back. I don't know Joe. Well I mean whatever that has allowed to travel. Yeah.


When I go out, I did shows in Houston about a month ago and I felt real scared afterwards. I was like, what am I, what am I going to get other people sick just like tell jokes.


It's gonna be tough to read the crowd. And anybody want a mask to a lot of people aren't.


A lot of people had them hanging down on their there as a chinstrap. Yeah, I like that. But chinstrap or an earring. And I think I went the pretending intending to do something silly.


I got my got my mask on here and now I we dodged the bullet. I did a whole week in. At the Houston Improv, it was an awesome time, hung out with Dan Crenshaw and Willie D from the Ghetto Boys had a good time. It was a lot of fun, but after it was over, I was like, this is not worth the risk. I don't want to infect anybody that I know and love. And I don't want the crowd infect people.


And even though the like the health department cleared it and they did temperature checks and they social distance, it's not you can catch it. Yeah. It's too goddamn contagious.


Well, that's just it. And you know what?


Can you can you can believe the science and you know, but at the same time disagree with kind of the coverage and think, you know what, you know, if we just again, going back to the whole idea of objective news, it'd be interesting to see what the coverage would be like if, you know, if we had objectivity in journalism and, you know, but it's not going to happen.


So I'm just talking out my ass. It's not going to happen. I think there's a there's an opening for it. And I think these independent people, like I was talking to my local Kolinsky and Jimmy door in the Hill and these people that are doing it with politics, I think they've opened up the possibility that someone could do it with just just general news.


You know, politics is a very attractive way for someone to get into the game because it's it's very quick. Baity, you know, you talk about all these issues. You may make a YouTube show doesn't have a large boundary that you have to cross, like financially. You know, there's not a large price you have to pay before you can enter the game. All you really need is a camera that sets up. You have a background. It doesn't have to be any particular kind of an interesting background.


And with most software tools for video editing, you could do a lot of shit.


But honestly, that we don't you know, I don't know. I'd argue the last thing we need is another political show.


I think maybe, you know, but, you know, I don't think the last thing we need is another political show. I think the last thing we need is nuclear war.


But I think, well, another political show is on that. But I think that a regular news show, I would like someone to do the same goddamn thing with a regular new show. But the problem is, if you funded it, like if I said, hey, we're going to do the Jarry News Network, we're going to treat news the way I treat everything in life, I don't know. So I ask questions and I want to know what the real truth is.


And sometimes I'm wrong. But if I'm wrong to correct myself, if we just did a Jarry news channel, then you'd have to hire a bunch of fucking people. And then who knows if they're going to share my my philosophy and take on things and probably not going to someone's going to have to organically come up with a version of that. And then there's the problem there, like what's their sources? Are you going to send journalists out in the field, you know, and who are these journalists and what's their qualifications and how much they understand about which subject they're covering?


Well, I think that is a great you know, the great myth.


I mean, it was never you never had a hundred percent objectivity, right? I mean, it just never happened because of some of the reasons you're talking about. It's just like with with intelligence reporting. Right. It once you get the raw intelligence off the street, you can have an asset tell you something. And that moment, it's just raw intelligence.


It doesn't have a right or left or whatever. It hasn't been through the spin cycle.


And then but once that intelligence gets reported back to headquarters and then it starts getting its way through the analysts and then it makes its way to, you know, others outside of the agency, if if we're talking about the agency and it starts getting to the NSC, you know, and by the time it finishes getting through all those different cycles, yeah, there's a spin to it.


Right. And you've lost that. So, yeah. To your point, you're right. Yeah, you're absolutely right.


You put reporters out in the field, they're going to have a bias as to who they talk to. Right. And those people are going to have a bias and then it's going to get back to the editors and they're going to work on it. So, you know, again, I realize that, you know, we're not talking 100 percent objectivity, but something better than what we've got.


Something better than what we got would be nice. And I think the only way that's can emerge that's going to emerge independently. You can't you can't get this with funding.


You can't you can't create that sort of a thing with a lot of a lot of money behind it and a bunch of a bunch of different people with vested interests and biases. You're not going to create that. You know, it's going to have to emerge independently. Yeah. And I don't know how.


I don't know how, but that's almost what you need. It's almost like you need individual shows that cover individual subjects, like you need an unbiased environmental show that tells you, hey, this is what we really know about currently about fracking. This is what we really know and this is how we know it. And these are the people we're talking to. And you have a whole fucking show just dedicated to the dangers, pros and cons of fracking and then have the same thing for coal and the same thing for solar and the same thing for current nuclear technology, which might be the most promising thing that we have.


But everybody's fucking terrified of it.


Well, then what you get in and you're continuing to slice and dice your sources of information and you're what are you doing? You're still overwhelming the people, in fact. More so.


Yeah. And they're like, what? That's true. Fuck. And that's true.


I you know, I don't know, maybe like a news show is just it's there's too much news. Like, you can't really have a news show because if you have an hour show, like, good evening, this is.


The 11 o'clock news, like, OK, how are you going to say, how are you going to fit this whole world's crazy chaos? We got the intro figured out, though. That's good. Thank you. Yeah, I talk like a news man. Drive safely. Careful out there.


Did you get a chance to look at that chaos book that I told you about? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tom O'Neil, who is a friend of my good friend Greg Fitzsimmons, wrote an insane book that took him 20 years about Manson and the CIA in LSD. And what did you think about all that?


Oh, well, you've touched on some.


I mean, it's all Tom touched on some really interesting things that what I liked about his book and I went through it, I read it, is that he's he's he's actually, I think, very honest about the shortcomings of what he ended up doing and the research that he went through and where he couldn't draw connections. So I gave him a lot of credit. I think it's it's well worth the read.


And, you know, it's a it's a hell of a just a personal story that it took him this fucking long to make his way through with a variety of reasons.


But, yeah, it luckily it's been a tremendous success. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's really he sold he sold out almost immediately and the paperbacks are sold out too.


I mean he's I think the printing is a huge draw, but it's also it's a fantastic encounter account of all the things that happened with the Manson family and all those people that were alive back then about how this guy kept getting out of jail and they kept arresting him and they kept saying, this is above my pay grade and they would let him out.


Yeah. And that's that's for me. That's the strangest part about the whole story. Right. I mean, I you know, this idea that, you know, was Manson, you know, a lab rat for the CIA and, you know, how how how far down that rabbit hole do you want to go? Well, O'Neill is pretty clear about that, right? It's a that's a not a particularly solid connection.


It's a tenuous connection, we call it, between one of what used to be a contractor, a researcher for that old chestnut, MK Ultra.


Charlton West. Yeah. Yeah. Jolli West. Yeah.


What did you think about all that? Like, I'm sure you know about Operation Midnight Climax and all that stuff. That's absolutely true. Yeah. I don't know.


It'd be interesting to how many people are or I mean I know some people that you know, this is what the midnight climax, Operation Midnight Climax was a CIA funded program where they dosed up Johns. They created brothels and dosed up Johns with LSD against their knowledge. Yeah.


And without their knowledge and let them fornicate and have a good old time with these ladies of the evening, man, and watch them and film them and studied them. I know.


And when you say it that way, I'm in if you want money for produce that movie. But it's it is actually. Yeah it's true.


Yeah. It fell under the sort of umbrella of this MK Ultra, which is public knowledge.


I'm not you know, obviously we're not talking about turn, but let's also give them the benefit of the doubt. When LSD was synthesized by Albert Hoffman, they really needed to figure out what the fuck this was. And they need to figure out, like, could this be used against Americans? Could this be used against the president or what is this? Is this a truth serum? Like what? What are the benefits? What's the pros and cons and what are the dangers of this stuff?


Well, that's a I mean, national security angle. It's very important they did study it. Right. And so from context and again, we talked about that towards the beginning is, you know, which something we don't normally do. Right. So you were judging people from history now. Right. And so we're not using context of, well, what was the what were the conditions?


We're talking about the 1950s. The 1960s. Well, yeah, late 40s. Right. I mean, so. So what have you got? You got the the end of the World War Two. You got the Cold War. It's the late forties.


You've got the Soviet Union that is heavily invested in in a variety of experiments.


Mind control brainwashing was the sort of the term of the culture. Right. And brainwashing was a big issue, not a big issue.


But it was it captured people's imagination back then. So the late forties, early fifties, it was Korean War.


Yeah, we had an existential threat.


We had nukes pointed at each other. We had, you know, drills in schools, kids hiding under desks. I mean, what the fuck?


So with the fear that the Chinese or the Soviets were going to develop mind control abilities was pervasive.


And it's sound I know, you know, you talk about it now and everybody rolls her eyes and goes, oh, my God.


But you're absolutely right that you have to understand the context with which then Allen Dulles, who was the at the time, the director of the CIA, by the way, the guy who Kennedy fired.


Yes. And wound up being a part of the Warren. Mission after Kennedy was murdered, which was very strange. Yeah, OK. Oh, I like that. Like where that could go so well.


So anyway, we got we got Allen Dulles, who in 53, early in 53, says, all right, we have to understand what the what the the Soviets are doing, particularly the Soviets.


But we also had, you know, again, I'm sure some folks listening know all this, but a lot of folks probably don't. We had those returning American people are returning from Korea. That was a big issue. Right, because some of them came back again, quote unquote, brainwashed, you know, and some of them didn't want to return because, you know, again, brainwashing, mind control that, you know, perhaps the Chinese had developed these techniques.


So initially the idea was defensive. How do we protect ourselves against this new threat within this Cold War against these enemies who appear to be devoting a great deal of resources against this? Well, so initially it started out as a defensive effort.


MK Ultra was the umbrella name for a whole bunch of over one hundred and forty projects, subprojects underneath and culture.


And it was all based around chemical substances, use of chemicals, use of drugs, behavioral issues with with human beings, creating false memories, deleting memory, influencing the behavior again of individuals.


There were a variety of projects that fell under this MK Ultra and it was again starting out as a defensive issue, but then quickly became sort of an offense. How do we how do we become the leader in all of this? Which is typical, right. That's typical of how things develop. It's like cyber warfare. You know, initially it's defensive and now you think, OK, now we got to figure out how to make it work on our behalf.


And sometimes it's important, like when they shut down the Iran nuclear program. Yeah. With a virus, essentially a computer virus. So. Absolutely.


And well, where this went off the rails in and a handful of ways in many ways was testing on unwitting subjects, things such as LSD and a variety of other substances. Yeah, waps and those subjects, unwitting subjects ranged everything from in federal prisons to state mental hospitals.


And that's where Manson comes in, and that's where Manson comes in and and a variety of other people.


You know who it's just it's it's a I would recommend people, you know, dig in, don't, you know, don't settle on just one account. And one of the things that people should also do if they want to read about this is read the any testimony that came out of the CIA and there was some testimony. There were there were documents written by the inspector general back in. And this this time period was about 53 through at least officially acknowledged, 64, 1964.


And then the program was wrapped up. Supposedly there were still.


Federal programs, military programs, others that we're still looking into, issues related to the use of chemical substances for everything, again from interrogation to behavioral adjustment, and a lot of these things were funded through cutouts.


So you'd set up again, this is, you know, early 50s, mid 50s, early 60s, set up financing vehicles, you know, through say, you know, what appear to be non-threatening grant programs, you know, from Research Institute.


So you'd you'd you'd loop in academic institutions or researchers. And M.K. Ultra had at least acknowledged anyway over 80 academic institutions and others that were either wittingly or unwittingly working on their behalf in various research programs.


So, yeah, this this midnight climax program, basically, they'd they'd kid out a safe house as a brothel and they would have the hookers slip LSD or whatever substance to the to the Johns.


And then behind a mirror, you'd have a supposedly like a researcher. Right. I mean, this is work out. We're sitting there, you know, having a drink and watching these, you know, the hooker and the john have sex. And then they'd be analyzing the impact of the LSD on them in terms of their ability to talk. And and would they a hooker in on it?


Yeah, the hooker was in on it and was an employee of the CIA, you know, and it was it wasn't just the agency, you know, like the army was involved in these things as well.


But they would get, you know, cash payments and oftentimes the get out of jail alive, get out of jail free card.


You know what, ladies? If you're out. Yeah. If you're out there, listen to me. Go on. Whatever you need. I'm forward. I'm here for you for. But there was a show. There was talk.


You can wear a Boba Fett mask. OK, well, hide your identity. Why I said that.


But I mean, just imagine. I mean. So it's OK. So this was clearly, you know, clearly was off the rails. Right. And they had one of the guys that was involved in this.


He was with what used to be called the Federal Bureau of Narcotics. A guy named White George White was, you know, involved in like the San Francisco cathouse. And, you know, according to stories, he'd sit there and, you know, with a martini in his hand and watch the couple have sex. And then he and he would have, like, prepped the hooker to say, OK, after sex. Now, this appears to be the best time to get them talking.


So ask them about their job and let's see if they'll talk about their job. The idea being, could we influence and like entrap potential assets overseas for operational reasons?


You know, is it was there some use, you know, for operational purposes? But basically it was just, you know, George getting his rocks off, watching couples having sex and, you know, in a very, very strange shit.


But you're right in that. And so, again, this this went on till 64 MK Ultra, interestingly enough, not to not to spend too much time on it.


But Richard Helms was the director at the time in the early 70s, and he and a guy named Gotlieb, Sidney Gottlieb, who was the head of technical services at the agency, they agreed that the smart thing to do in 73 before Richard Helms left and Godlee left the agency, was to destroy all the records.


So they purged all the records of MK Ultra that they they thought existed.


This was investigating the church committee back in 75 and then 76, I think it was, they found a bunch of financial records, you know, that had not been purged because they had been kept, you know, audits of.


And again, you're talking about like 149 subprojects of Meklit or so. You can imagine. Each project has its own accounting and you got to turn in your receipts for the LSD that you bought or the hoca you paid off or whatever. You know, it's all here's my receipt and can I have my twelve dollars or whatever.


You paid for a hooker back then, and so probably not 12 bucks, but they found some financial records and. So that became then the matter of another investigation up on the Hill and Stansfield Turner, the time the CIA director testified at that point. And that's why I brought my laptop, is because Stansfield Turner's testimony is actually pretty interesting as far as M.K. Ultra goes and he talks about we've attempted to group the activities covered by the 149 subprojects into categories under descriptive headings.


When you're in broad outline, at least this presents the contents of these files, the headings of the categories of all these various projects that ran under MK Ultra. And this gives you a pretty good quick sense of what they were doing at the time. Research into the effects of behavioral drugs and or alcohol. There were 17 projects, probably not involving human testing.


This is a testimony from the director of the CIA, Stansfield Turner, 14 subprojects, definitely involving tests on human volunteers, volunteers, 19 Sopra subprojects, probably including tests on human volunteers.


While not known, some of these subprojects may have included tests on unwitting subjects as well, while not known or not known.


And then six subprojects. Yeah, definitely involving tests on unwitting subjects, research on hypnosis, acquisition of chemicals or drugs, aspects of magicians, art and what magicians are.


Yeah, yeah. Like slipping him a Mickey or something, you know. How do you do that?


Sleight of hand, studies of human behavior, sleep research, behavioral changes during psychotherapy, motivational studies, studies of defector's assessment and training techniques, polygraph research funding mechanisms for MK, ultra external research activities. Research on drugs, toxins and biologicals and human tissue activities.


Husar objectives cannot be determined from available documentation anyway. It goes on. But it gives you a sense of of of what the hell was happening during this period of time. But again, this doesn't justify it.


Obviously it doesn't. But you're absolutely right that to have a full understanding of this, you have to look at the at the context of what the where we were at that time and where we were was smack dab in the height and elevation of the Cold War, knowing that our adversaries, our existential threats were engaged in this sort of behavior.


Now, George, why it was not really a research or anything.


He would just sit behind a mirror watching some people, you know, get off so clearly and all the unwitting subjects involved.


I mean, but, look, they were slipping LSD to agency employees without telling them. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah.


And I mean, it's just yeah, it's so it's not that long ago, but it's not we have to think about it in terms of the same way we thought about Abraham Lincoln in the context of the times.


This wasn't such a horrendous thing to do. They didn't know any better. It was really they didn't know what these substances would do to people. And there wasn't a lot of ways to find out, you know, the Harvard LSD studies that they did that they believe in part, were responsible for the Unabomber. There's a lot of other shit that was responsible for the Unabomber, including particularly his childhood. But they they did a lot of these studies because they they didn't know.


I mean, there's one way to find out. I mean, how do you get responsible human subjects? How do you get people to do? Well, there's not a lot of ways other than just test people.


And unfortunately, yeah, what what this ended up being was, you know, like using using the most marginalized people out there, you know, like sex workers or prisoners or whatever.


Right. And oftentimes, you know, Johns are just just, you know, but that whole thing. But where Tom O'Neill's book is is, you know, is really interesting in a couple of ways. This isn't if you if you jump. So MK Ultra kind of finished up in 64 officially. Right. That's when, you know, the inspector general came out from the agency and said, you've got no you can't you can't do this. They had a new inspector general and they looked and said, this is clearly not where we are supposed to be.


But interestingly, funding mechanisms, you know, that were used to, again, to dole out grants or to provide a cut out between government and research that was being done.


You know, did some of those continue to exist for other programs, other research? And in 67, you know, you have the Summer of Love, San Francisco.


And Tom O'Neil writes about this. And it's very, very interesting. But you had the the the Haight Ashbury free medical clinic. Right. Which in part was running a couple of projects that were supposedly getting funding from the National Institute for Mental Health, which had previously been a funding mechanism also for M.K. Ultra, you know, a few years in the past.


And Roger Smith was a guy who was getting his PhD in criminology.


He was working at the Haight Ashbury Free Medical Clinic, and he was also Mansons.


Parole officer, and to your point, Manson was like he was like a brook trout or a rainbow trout, that is some catch and release stream, right? He was constantly arrested during a 67 68 period. Remember, the killings happened in summer of August of 69.


And, you know, he kept getting released and he had been in prison, right? He in 67, he had early in that year, he'd been released from prison. And so he was on probation. Any violation? Certainly some of the things he was getting arrested for should have sent him back to prison, but he wasn't. So that, to me, is one of the most interesting parts of the book is this. This is this revolving door that Manson was in.


And eventually we all know what happened to him.


But, yeah, working at the Haight Ashbury Free Medical Clinic, that's where Manson would go along with some of his followers. And, you know, they were, you know, part of a study. And, you know, they were, I'm sure, you know, getting their LSD from there. But also this guy, Jolly West, who was involved in M.K. Ultra, also ended up having an office at the Haight Ashbury Free Medical Clinic.


So but again, to Tom's point, when it closed down about four months after Tom's book came out, been open for over 50 years. What are the odds? Yeah, I know.


What are the odds? I didn't see that coming.


Yeah, but, I mean, you know, again, it's I like I like the book because he does seem to be trying to let the the facts of all his research lead the way rather than trying to prove a point that he comes up with at the beginning of his book.


Well, he also exposed the prosecutor, Bugliosi, and all the issues that was going on with him that led to him wanting to follow the narrative that they had laid out that Manson was trying to incite a race war and. Right. You know, and ignore all the other indicators that there was some deeper connections.


And yeah. Was Manson a was he an informer for the bureau or for local law enforcement or, you know, some other outfit?


I you know, that's hard to tell, hard to tell, but it's compelling. In light of the fact that he kept getting released, it didn't seem that would get out of jail free card.


He also seemed to have an unlimited supply of acid. And that was what's fascinating. And he also seemed to employ the same techniques that apparently the CIA had employed when they had done experiments on prisoners, including the fact that he would, you know, force them into weird sexual situations and pretend to take LSD himself, but not really participate and then, you know, influence them. And he seemed to be doing things to them in terms of like trying to alter their behavior and getting them to do things that were outside the norm, including murder.




I mean, did he see. Yeah.


Did he have a sense from his time there at the clinic or dealing with what's his name, Roger Smith, his parole officer, who again was also what, you know, a criminology doctor or a doctoral candidate, I guess. And so was you know, Manson was you know, he was not a rocket scientist. He was illiterate for the most part until he ended up in prison.


And and maybe which is why it was so weird that he was able to manipulate so many people so well here. But it was also like what? He was the perfect guinea pig.


I mean, you're talking about a guy who spent half his life in federal penitentiaries.


Yeah, yeah. And and also putting it in context of the time. What else did you have going on? You had sort of this again, this awareness of the impact of LSD on the on the counterculture. Right. So you had federal agencies like the bureau, for example, worrying about, oh, my God, what's the you know, what are these hippies going to do next?


You know, and and, you know, they were worried, obviously, about the Black Panthers. But it was also more than that.


It was it was the antiwar movement. Yeah. It's just a general counterculture and the impact of drugs on it.


And so it's a it's a fascinating I think it's a I think it's a very interesting read.


And I think it's worth the read because, again, he's spent so much time trying to make his way through the teen years.


Yeah, it's a crazy story. And if you haven't heard the podcast, please listen to it with Tom O'Neil. What number was that, Jamie? How many idea?


But it's it's just do you think that those times and the shift between the 50s in the 60s are maybe even a bigger cultural shift than we're experiencing now? Because it seems like, yeah, this when the hippies came around and all the drugs and free love and all that crazy shit and Woodstock, it almost seemed like that is even more of a radical change in culture than we're experiencing today. We're experiencing a lot of turmoil today, but so much of it you could attribute to the problems, the economic despair with covid and the lockdown and then the George Floyd murder and the Black Lives Matter protests.


And there's so many different, like tangible factors you could point to.


Well, I think in the end, the pandemic is certainly a massive part of it, because you think about it and this you know, this in no way minimizes the importance of some of the protests and trying to get, you know, policing the way, you know, that everyone agrees it should be, but that, you know, if everybody was working and we didn't have the pandemic right, I would argue we wouldn't have seen the protests in Portland.


We would have seen this this this, like we talked about earlier, where these people are, they have too much for too much free time. But I don't know.


I mean, I remember I'm old enough to remember, you know, somewhat as a kid the race riots of the 60s, general upheaval. Right. And I remember shit.


I remember my my older sister, you know, down in the basement painting protest signs with a bunch of her friends. And they were going to head downtown to a protest, you know, and I had a brother who had two brothers that were in the Vietnam War. And, you know, there was a lot of you know, they were definitely at odds with each other.


Right. Here's my sister protesting the war, my one of my brothers flying a force in the war, another medic.


And, you know, so it was a very tumultuous time.


I, I this. I don't think that's where we are now, so I agree with you. I think it was more upheaval than. But it's it's incredibly disappointing now. I thought we were maybe it's obviously naive to some degree, but I kind of thought we were further along than we are now, it seems.


Yeah. And so the you know, it's it's yeah. It's very disappointing and frustrating to see where we're kind of at at this moment in time.


And again, part of it's heightened by just the uber partisanship of everything. But yeah, I but I don't think we're there. And I think this the pandemic has given us all too much time to reflect on shit.


And so everyone's so scared that we're we're projecting it onto other subjects and there's fear and anxiety. It just accentuates or exacerbates all the other problems that we have.


First of all, there's the financial fear, which is doesn't seem there's a way out of it for a lot of people, for low income people and people that are losing their jobs and people that are losing their businesses. There doesn't seem to be a light at the end of the tunnel.


Yeah, no, I you know, we're we're very fortunate in that we you know, we've been we'll ride out that side of it, right.


With you know, with the economy and all that. But, yeah, all the people I mean, look at the situation currently with just the unemployment, but and how quickly that took place. And we were riding high as far as the economy goes, you know, just a handful of months ago. And now the number of people who are worried about, you know, do they have a roof over their head, you know, because maybe they're going to get evicted or, you know, what the fuck.


Now I can go back to work, but I can't because my workplace isn't open anymore.


Well, you used to hear that everyone is one paycheck away, right? That was the thing most Americans like 40 percent of Americans, are one paycheck away from being broke. Well, what the fuck are you doing now?


We're five months later. What does that mean?


Well, that's 600 bucks a week, right? I mean, I know I get it right. The government can't continue to keep kicking cash out the door. Right.


But there's there's a it's not enough, but it's also I mean, what the fuck is wrong with our politicians, right?


I mean, they're agonizing over this. Right? We've got, you know, how many trillions are we in debt? And so you fine. But solve the problem now, right? The pandemic, it's not it's not going to last forever.


We're going to figure this out and everyone's going to get back to to to hopefully some relative normalcy.


But in the short term, the fact that the Democrats and Republicans can't, you know, come together and resolve this, they're they're bickering about what do we do with the next bailout bill or do we have one or how much is it going to be a month?


And and you got people legitimately standing at the door wondering whether they have to leave their apartment or not or whether they'll they'll have a place to come home to or how are they going to feed their kids?


And you got these these idiot politicians who are just playing games with us and it always happens.


And, you know, they're paid. They're paid. And if there's no consequence to them, then shit doesn't happen.


That's I firmly believe that with Washington, D.C., nothing happens in Washington unless the politicians personally feel as if there's some consequence to their situation, their position of power. And they're acting as if, you know, there won't be any consequences. And so, you know, they're talking about, oh, we're going to get this done before our August break. What the fuck?


They're going to take an August break. I mean, I was stunned by that today when I was talking to somebody in D.C. and they say, yeah, well, they're they're they're trying to rush us through before the takes a fucking break and, you know, the national crisis.


Yeah. So but that's what I well, we got to go back and see our constituents. The constituents would probably tell you to stay in D.C. and get something done.


But I don't know. I just you know, at the end of the day, it doesn't do any good to sit around a pitch and moan.


But but I think, you know, unless we have term limits and we have campaign finance reform and we're going to be talking about this forever or mushrooms or the smell as data, a bunch of unwitting politicians and see what happens.


What what do you think of all this Pentagon UFO we've recovered Krafts not of this world talk.


OK, yeah, I think two things. I think, again, can always be true. At the same time, I don't think we're the only intelligent life out there. I mean, I'm classifying us as intelligent, but I also don't think we're hiding some alien spacecraft somewhere.


So why do you think the Pentagon would come out and say something like that? Well, I think, look, we did a with with here comes here comes a pitch for my show for black show.


That's blackface to class of black files declassified. And how could one watch this show?


God, that was a good first season, wasn't it? It was on Discovery. On Science Channel. Oh, yes, Discovery. I love the Science Channel. We did an episode. Don, on Advanced Aeronautic Threat Identification Program ATIP, which was the Pentagon's admitted, you know, came out and said, yes, we have a program that we ran a program it's no longer in existence called ATIP, which was designed to identify unidentified aviation threats, basically.


So it's not talking about UFOs necessarily could be a hostile, you know, prototype aircraft, you know, what is that?


I talked to Commander Fraser, David Freyberg. David was in here. He explained his incident off of the coast of San Diego and he said they tracked this thing. It dropped from 60000 feet to one foot above the sea in a second.


Yeah, it wasn't just him seeing this right now is a radar operators on board and his wingman. Exactly. Yeah.


So but I think they said it was tracking them and then it actually actively blocked their tracking and then.


No, no visible means of propulsion. Exactly. No. No. Right. No heat signal.


Yeah. I mean so I think it's look and he's a very credible. This is correct. Yeah. Yeah. Right.


And so I mean not the only one. Yeah. Not everything. I mean. But what do you think of that. Yeah.


Well I think yeah I think we don't.


Well is what I think, I think we haven't resolve that issue. We don't know.


There was no final report that gave some sort of conclusive evidence that said this is what this identify or this object was. It is considered still to this day to be an anomaly perhaps of, you know, they don't they just know clarification, which is interesting and all by itself. And again, it kind of goes back to this. Look, we the only intelligence people know.


But do I think that the government is capable all these years of holding a secret like that? No, I really don't.


I think there's there's much like with MK Ultra or anything else, I could eventually shit hits the fan stuff comes out. And I don't think the I'm not one of those.


And I say this and I'm sure a lot of people disagree, but I just don't think that the government's capable of keeping secrets for the long term, certainly not of this magnitude. But I think there are certainly things that have happened that we can't explain. And one of them would be the sighting by Freyberg.


Yeah, yeah.


So but materials, you know, materials that that aren't.


You know, from Earth, look, shit hits the earth from space all the time, and that qualifies as a material that there's not a doubt. That's what they said, though, right?


Well, they said they've recovered crafts, not from this world. Yeah.


I'd like to I'd I would want to sit down with the individual saying that and say, OK, clarify this, please.


I want to take them to one of them brothel's. Yeah, exactly.


Absolutely. I sit behind that mirror.


It was like, hey, man, tell me what you really sanjo bring one of those hookers in from the 60s, but now.


No, no, no, no, don't do that to her or you know, but want to know though what what you know, what is actually happening and why would they come out with a statement like that.


Well, I'll tell you something between you and me is second season of blackfellas declassified. We're going to be looking at that. Why do you think I don't know what the that's that's the big question is why would they say that? Right. And I don't have an answer for that. I don't know. And that's why I say it. It's a shocker. It definitely bears further investigation that goes without saying if there was a thing that was coming, they would want to prepare people.


And I think if you wanted to prepare people, the best way to prepare people is to slowly give them signs that some shit is about to go down.


And one of the best ways to say we have found things that are not of this world.


OK, think about that for a little while. We've seen a few months, a few months, a few months of accepting that without any the sea, there's no there's no event. Right. It's just a statement.


What was the exact wording? Let's finally bring that up. Yeah, the exact wording of here it is. Yeah.


Crash's Harry Reid said he believed crashes of vehicles from other worlds had occurred and that retrieved materials had been studied secretly for decades.




Now, you know, Bob Lazaar, do you know the story of Bubbles or Bob Asar was down here and he he said some things that were ridiculed but turned to be turned out to be absolutely true. One of the things that he said was that there was this element, this element 115, and that they had figured out a way to stabilize this element in these other planets.


And that's what they used to propel these vehicles with a different kind of propulsion that manipulated gravity and then essentially had created some sort of a warp where they they didn't they weren't subject to the same laws of physics with this propulsion system that we are with what we have, which is just igniting fuel and, you know, pushing the explosion, pushes the rocket right into into this into space, which could explain sort of the forever sighting.


Yeah. The way he described these vehicles in the 1980s, in the early 1990s is exactly the way Frazier's vehicle worked, exactly the way the gimbal video worked.


These things, for whatever reason, they fly one way and then they turned sideways, like like if you had a plate, the plate turns up and down. And then that's the way it travels. And somehow or another, that's that's how it travels insanely fast, that it does something to manipulate gravity around it.


Yeah, it sounds super weird, but the fact that this guy talked about this in the early 90s and then this is the exact video that the Pentagon refers to, the you actually see these objects that they can't explain that don't give off a heat signal that move in this exact same way that spectacular rates of speed. And then that's how the ticktock craft work, too, right?


Well, I mean, yeah, I. I yeah, it's yeah, there's a there's a leap there necessarily that you got to make I don't want to make that leap either.


Yeah. What you're saying for four years I was like, it's all horseshit now. I mean, I'm not you know, again, not saying it could happen. I'm just saying there's certain parts of this like, OK, Harry Reid talking about it. Well, like Harry Reid was, you know, was he was very interested in this stuff.


I mean, he you know, he allocated some some federal funds to one of his buddies in Nevada to, you know, create a sort of a center know for examining this and for developing space exploration capabilities. So Harry Reid is certainly interested in this.


They I talked to Lou Elizondo, who ran a tip. Right. And. You don't really get that answer when you say, OK, Lou, was a tip holding on to materials, you know, that came from an alien craft. No, you know what they're saying?


Maybe it wasn't a tip that was involved in that. Maybe it wasn't. Yeah, yeah. That's OK. Yeah, I get that. And I get I guess I guess what I'm saying is I'm open to say, fine, look, anything can anything's possible, I suppose in this world.


Things that I do know is it's you know, it's I have a really hard time believing the government could keep this all buttoned up over a period of time and a genuine ridicule factor for sure.


That would help. I mean, that's that's a part of the whole things about all all the UFO stories are so ridiculous.


Well, that's why you know, that's why I set up a tip to begin with. I was so, you know, that they could have sort of a legitimate outlet and a place for this to go. But, yeah, Favre himself talks about it.


Look, it's not in their best interest to get back on the carrier and say, by the way, we spotted an unidentified flying object, but they did.


And yeah, and you're right.


So that's the natural tendency is to kind of look the other way or roll your eyes.


And that's and that can act as a deterrent. Yeah, I you know, I don't know, I just but I do think that it bears further investigation. There's no doubt about that. And I think that the program that the Pentagon was running, you know, for the minimal cost of that compared to the cost of another air asset or, you know, platform of some sort, I think they should have kept it going right.


And they should have normalized to some degree because it's in our national security interest to not have the Russians or have others developed materials. Right. Or proportions. Everybody's working on new propulsion systems. Right. Everybody that has the ability and the resources. So hypersonic craft or that's that's just common. That's that's going to happen.


And whoever wins that particular race is going to be further up the food chain than everybody else.


So it's in our national interest to be exploring any legitimate or potentially legitimate sighting to understand what that is. That doesn't mean you're chasing UFOs or sort of spacecraft from from the just means you should know what the hell that is or what's out there.


So I'm a big proponent of that. I'm just saying also, you have to proceed with caution, you know for sure.


I mean, I feel like the new normal that we're experiencing right now in the pandemic human. It really illuminated to me how easily human beings adapt to things.


We adapt to everything we really do. We just accept it. Well, this is the new thing. We exist like phones. We just think we accept the fact that we just always have a phone on us now. And when you and I were growing up, there's no fucking phones.


All right. Did you have the headphones on the wall? Right. I mean that with a cord. Right. And if you were lucky, you had a long cord so you could take the phone away from your parents when you call your friends.


Oh, yeah. Yeah. I used to have a dial.


We had the dial. And then we got when we got the push button phones, I thought we were the one show push button.


You're a rock star. Yeah, push button man. And then you'd get you know, you take that phone if you got a call from your girlfriend or whatever you you on your younger, you go and try to get as far away from your parents as you could, you know, and whisper, you remember, I can't talk.


I came up with Star 69. Yeah. You remember that. Yeah. Somebody called you and they hung up. You pressed Star 69. Come right back. Yeah. Hey motherfucker. I got new technology. Yeah. You called me. What do you want to know about your first use that people like.


How'd you get my number. I star six nine you bitch.


Now everybody's got to get one of these, including Muggsy, my youngest, which oh by the way, I told him I would mention this.


The oldest boy, Scooter, who's just turned thirteen, he he he walked by yesterday before I got on a plane and he said, Where are you going?


I said, I'm going to Los Angeles. Why? Why going to Los Angeles?


And I said, well, I got a couple of meetings and sit down with with Rogen.


And, you know, he's watch some of your podcasts and I'm sorry. Yeah. Only the good ones that were the appropriate ones, age appropriate ones. Those are there are no luck.


There are none. And but he says, oh, this is great. Now as we're having this conversation about you, Mugsy walked by and he's eight years old. He walks by and he stops.


He listens for a second, goes rogard and I said, Yeah.


He says, you got to see rock again. And I said, Yeah. And he looks for a second.


He goes, Don't know who he is. Turns around. Walks away.


Yeah, that's it. That's what I'm going to tell you. It's perfect.


But even Muggs he's got a even he's got a phone. Right. And how old is he. He's eight just like you.


I just turned nine yesterday. Well, you know, just about to get mauled by a bear. Well, yeah, that's important. I lifted off the ground by a hawk or a UFO.




Yeah, well, that's the other thing is, is like, you know, again, the idea that they we've had visitors from another planet, they just say they got bored with us or something. I don't know. And decided now fuck it, it's not worth it. I who I don't think they're doing that.


I think they're waiting for us to fuck up hugely. That's what I think.


The house twenty twenty one. How much more time do they need. I think they're closing then like this.


These assholes are really close to entering war with China or Syria or Iran.


Yeah. Well the China thing who knows. We haven't even talked to I know everybody whenever they hear I'm going to be doing this, I'm sure they probably think I'm going to come on and bash China with the China thing is an interesting one, right?


I mean, it is a very interesting one right now because China has been buying up a lot of a lot of assets when they realize that the pandemic was kicking in. And there's a lot of companies that are China's owns a large stake in them now.


Yeah, yeah, I know. It's look, again, they TTIP talks about giving Tic-Tac. That's going to piss off my middle boy, Sluggo.


He's a well, Facebook, coincidentally, Facebook or Instagram, I should say.


He's about to release Real's, which is their version of Tic-Tac. Remember how they like their fucking cock blocked. Oh, Snapchat, Instagram stories.


Well, they're about to cock block tick tock with Instagram Real's, and then they're going to lure all the kids over to realise the.


That's the thing when by the time we get in, I'm sure it happens with your kids, by the time you get hip to whatever trend they got. I just I just said hip to whatever trend the kids have.


There are two trends down the road. Tick tock is old school. Right. Right. They don't give a shit anymore.


Yeah. They're doing some new stuff. But the thing about the tick tock thing that's interesting for this is the tinfoil hat part put put it on again. There's always been this talk that Facebook helped Trump win the election. Yeah. And they have been the least reluctant, the most reluctant, I should say, to censor Trump stuff. And and there's a lot of people who think that Mark Zuckerberg is in some way or Facebook is in some way responsible for getting Trump elected because they benefit from all the interaction they benefit from.


And it's one of the last places where conservatives can freely discuss things and not accept the hydroxy chloroquine thing. They're taking that down.


But Facebook owns Instagram and Instagram has real's. And if ticktock, if Trump comes in. Right. But has not been released yet. Correct. I think it's early August, which is like any minute now. Right. So what are we the third? What is today? The third, yes.


So if they come along and they. They banned tick tock and introduce rules at the same time that nobody else will. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree with that. But I think what's going to happen is I think they're going to orchestrate a deal. Microsoft will take over at least the US operate the U.S., Canada, Australia, New Zealand, you know, take over those operations of tech.


I don't know why that would be particularly appealing to Microsoft unless they take the whole global community of TAC users.


Right. Which is whatever, 800 million. You know, I mean, there's got maybe 80 to 90 million or so in the U.S., but I think they want to get a deal done by September sometime.


So Microsoft has missed the ball when it comes to mobile. I mean, they fucked up. They they made some critical errors that they could have had a Windows phone that was as big as the iPhone. They were right there.


They had their had their phone that looked like Windows 10, where it had the little little tiles and you could like. Right. I remember I was at the ice house and some guy had a windows phone and I was like, what does that mean? It's like it's the Windows Phone he's shown me like, oh, that looks pretty fucking dope. How do you like it? He goes, I like it a lot.


Then it was stoneware and it was one we're talking like this is like 2000.


When do they come up with the Windows Phone 2008 or some shit or something like that. And they just decided it wasn't worth the revenue stream.


It wasn't like the iPhone came out, if I remember correct. In 2007, I want to say 2007. I think the Windows Phone was right after that. They just fucked up 2010.


The iPhone came out the window, the Windows Phone, OK, so a few years later and they just dropped the ball. They never really caught on. And this is back when Android was really cool.


And that happens quick, too, though, because if you don't get it on the market. Right. Yeah, pretty quick. It's you know, you're always playing catch up.


Yeah, but but now you're right.


I mean, you know, it's I look at I look at the technology, I look at the phones and and I'm not super excited about my kids having phones, but at the same time, then it becomes it's less so during a pandemic, but it becomes a security issue in terms of I want to be able to track them and know where they are and sort of microchip in the kids, you know, then the phone is a pretty good way to know where they are.


Yeah, you just have to as a parent, you just got to be on lockdown all the time with them. Right. Because it's just a you know, it's it's a window into a lot of shit that you don't want kids that age to be paying attention to. Right.


And I mean, literally the whole world basically. Yeah. Yeah. Give you get a phone.


You're basically they have the Internet, everything. Yeah. Yeah.


Including clicking on things that put viruses and, you know, all sorts of malware on their computer on the on the phones. Yeah.


No it's and that's you know again obviously that brings us back around a tick tock a little bit.


But yeah, it is interesting, the relationship that we're in right now, people, we're we're having a conversation the other day about are we in a Cold War already with China?


And the answer is yes. I mean, you know, it's we don't have nukes pointing at each other necessarily the way we did during the Soviet days.


But, yeah, we're in it. We're in a cold war with China right now.


And that's not necessarily a bad thing, right? As long as we deal with it properly.


Right. And, you know, developing better trade protocols, developing a better understanding of of their agenda, their interests, that's a good thing.


As long as you know, as long as we do it again properly. Yeah. So China scares the shit out of me.


You know, I was watching a video the day of the week for Muslims. Mm. And what they're doing and rounding these people up and forced them on trains. It's like, it's terrifying. It's like what are they doing. And they have no accountability. They don't, they don't have to know.


It literally has set himself up. We talk about Putin is saying himself as president for life and she literally has set himself up as president for life now.


Now, if the Chinese economy, you know, go sideways in a big way, all bets are off.




And that he may not be as stable as he's been thinking, but he's spent years now strengthening and building up the intel apparatus within China, you know, for his own purposes and further moving away from this idea that somehow China was going to have a rule of law that doesn't exist there.


I mean, they fucked over the people of Hong Kong and we hardcore couldn't care less. Right.


We were all everybody was all upset and angsty and protesting about Hong Kong and oh, my God, we got we stand united with the Hong Kong protesters and then we got, you know, up our own asses because we're all rightly so worried about the pandemic.


And, you know, a guy with an election coming in November. And, you know, while we're all looking that way, you know, she saw an opportunity and just fucked them over.


Right. And there's no consequence for U.S. citizens.


Yeah, yeah.


There's just and there's really no consequence. I mean, so far, anyway, this, you know, a few. Talks of sanctions and, you know, some, but it doesn't mean anything.


They essentially use the pandemic to decide to impose the same sort of restrictive laws that they have in the rest of China with Hong Kong. Yeah. Where Hong Kong used to be under British law. And then was it 97 and transferred over to China?


Yeah. And it was going to be 2047 was kind of that was the the playing field they had in Hong Kong up until 2047.


What kind of goofiest deal that they negotiate where they gave it up in 97. So stupid. Well yeah.


I mean they, they, they, they, they, they didn't they really didn't have an option.


So they felt that they were they were negotiating as best they could. There was a sense, I think at the time that, look, we could do this and guarantee some runway for the people of Hong Kong with some pseudo democracy, democracy or, you know, China is just going to say, fuck you, get the hell out and it's ours.


I don't think China would have done that because, look, they they they need Hong Kong as a legitimate financial capital. Right. But I think what's going to happen now, given what they've just recently done, is, you know, they're going to turn Hong Kong at best into a pass through for hard currency, basically.


And, you know, you're going to see a lot of people moving out, not just, you know, not just expats and, you know, financial institutions.


You're going to see a lot of of the more successful and educated Hong Kong citizens who are running businesses there, who have been running businesses.


They're saying, fuck it, it's not worth it. Yeah.


And so, you know, I think the Chinese in the China Chinese regime, I think is probably fuck themselves over in a way. But it's just an indication of Xi's mindset. He doesn't he doesn't really care.


And it's just like their build up of military capabilities in the South Pacific, their work in cyber activity, they're continuing hoovering up intellectual property.


It's not going to stop them, you know. I mean, now it's better that we do make an effort.


It's better that we do, you know, put sanctions on them for a variety of reasons, including the wiggers. But will it change overall? Will it change their their behaviour? Probably not.


It's so weird, so weird to watch it happen. It's just it's a it's something that people weren't really terrified of ten years ago.


They weren't worried about China taking over the world. No. Now it seems like it's a real possibility.


Yeah. And in fact, they were it wasn't that they weren't worried about they were looking at China like, you know, it's a great marketplace. You know, this is what you need to be now. And you could argue the tech companies still do that, right? Yeah. The tech companies, they don't look at China, you know, as a threat to national security. They look at China as a as an opportunity. Right.


And they always have.


So that explains in part, you know, sort of their behavior towards the China Chinese regime. But, yeah, make no doubt about it, they just got his eyes set on being at the top of the food chain.


Yeah. So, you know, we can either deal with it or we can pretend it doesn't exist.


Do you think they're going to ban more companies the same way they banned while Wei? Well, it depends on what happens in November, right? I guarantee you the Chinese government would like to see Biden win.


Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, if if, you know, as would you know, for their own reasons, I think.


You know, and this what people people who who subscribe to the Trampas, Putin's puppet, will scoff at this idea. But look, the Russians, I think, would prefer to see Biden win as well, right? I mean, they get back to business as usual, probably ease up on the sanctions.


You know, the left, the hard left, anyway, has been very successful over the years at this this Russian narrative.


Right. And and fine. It worked for them.


You know, it spent three years in this in this in, you know, pushing this this particular narrative. And but I think I think overall, the Chinese, the Russians, they would prefer to see someone like Biden come in.


And I think they feel like it would be a more collegial approach from the White House, a less confrontational.


And I think that's just where we're at.


Look, I mean, you know. Bill, Bill Gates, Bob Gates used to be the director of the agency, right, and he worked for a couple of administrations and yeah, he said himself that Biden's never been on the right side of a foreign policy decision. And so that's one area where, again, going back to what we talked about earlier is, you know, if he's going to choose a vice president, I'd rather he choose somebody who's got as much national security and foreign policy experience as possible, because I think that's one area where he's going to be lacking, even though he says, oh, I worked in foreign policy all my life.


That mean anything. Just because you were there doesn't mean you've got good judgment or.


Right. You know, anyway. Now, what do you think it's do you think that the the policies that Trump's put in place for China are actually beneficial to the United States? It's a good step. Yeah, I do.


I do. Because it's put them on the back of the China. I mean, it's put them on the back foot. Right. That's not a bad thing. Made them a little less sure about, you know, what they're doing. They've had to think about things a little bit more. They have sanctions. Yeah. The sanctions.


I wish that we would sanction them hard for the wiggers. I wish we would sanction them very hard for what they've done in Hong Kong. I'd like to see that happen. I think what we're seeing now, though, is obviously the pandemic is deflected a lot of attention. And also, you know, the closer you get to any presidential election, the less shit gets done. You know, it just so I don't know that anything meaningful is going to happen over the course of the next handful of months.


And who knows what the fuck's going to happen in November.


What do you think is going to happen? I agree with you when you said earlier that you can't believe the polls. Right. So I don't believe the polls.


I think people are tired of the who are exhausted from just sort of the general drama of having somebody like Trump in office.


So I think there's a potential for a lot of people who may like the policies or some of the policies and prefer them to a hard left agenda or a left agenda. I think there's a chance for them to say, oh, fuck it, I just I'm too tired and I don't want that. And maybe they'll look at it, Biden and think it's a return to some normalcy.


Will there be debates? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll bet there is a big one. Well, yeah, if there's debate, yeah. That's where it all falls apart.


That's where the wheels come off. Get ready. Get ready to fucking Trump campaign manager.


We want more debates against Biden and sooner the first one September twenty ninth maybe they're probably pumping Biden up with steroids and alpha brain right now.


Could you be in a lab somewhere. They've got a vat from on it. It goes right to fucking Ivy.


I think I heard there's something like 16 states would already technically be done. Yeah, well done. By voting by September 29th.


They want to try to have some before that, but I think they're supposed to have three or something, say one more time.


Six states could be finished by that time. 16 states already have voted because they're doing it with mail in ballots. Yeah, yeah.


This is going to be so strange. This is going to be such a contested election no matter what, and I'm really worried about the chaos that could ensue after it's over. Well, think about that. And that's that's a I mean, look, I'm a big fan of going into the voting booth, you know, actually getting out, driving or walking, going to pulling the fucking lever.


So can't they do it outside? Yeah. Social media, obviously, weather permitting. But, you know, fine.


You know, I think the problem is, look, until Trump talked about, you know, the problems with the post office and, you know, mail delivery and the idea that we're going to have mail in ballots as opposed to absentee ballots, you know, before that, you know what, nine out of ten people, that's not statistically accurate.


But I'm sure a lot of people would have said a fuckin postal system, they can't deliver the mail. Right. And but now, because Trump comes out and says it's going, oh, my God, I love the postal system and he's trying to destroy the postal system.


And I think it's like what he did with Hydroxy glorified these exchanges. Right. Right. Look, and I've ordered Hydroxy Gluckman through the mail.


It hasn't arrived. So what am I to think? But I touch death so I.


But can you imagine if we have an election where you do this and then you don't know the results for five or six or seven days because they're still counting ballots.


Right. And that's.


Yeah. Can you imagine what that that reporting is going to be like and all the paranoia on both sides, the right and the left going up? You know exactly what the whole thing is. How about that's when I'm fucking crazy.


It's really it's really crazy. Oh, God. Right wing, the really nutty conspiracy folks.


How are they going to handle that? Yeah, well, that's that's it. And you got you got people on both sides, right.


Crazies not limited to one part of the spectrum. So you got people on both sides.


And if you the beauty of the elections in the past have been by the end of the night, you got a winner.


And now if you don't know and you can't tell me that and it's not, you know, I'm just I'm just saying the realities are you've got to be pragmatic.


You want to go with all mail ballots or whatever.


Hey, just be aware of the fact that you could have a lot of problems, a lot of disqualified ballots because of a variety of reasons, a lot of lost ballots, a lot of people.


And so if what you want to do is so chaos. Right.


And dissent and further this divide, then, yeah, that's a pretty good way to do it.


Or you can figure out how to fucking get everybody to the ballots. Right. To the polling booths and make that happen.


Just fucking do it right. And if you want to have ballot poll voting booths where people wear masks and, you know, and hazmat suits and fine.




But figure out a way to get people to the voting booth because and it's not I don't you know, I don't think that the mailing thing is is could be wrought with fraud like the White House, you know, like Trump is. You know, it could be, you know, lots of fraud.


I think it's just pragmatic says you could have a lot of logistical problems. Yeah. So.


Well, I don't understand why they can't vote online. Why can you bank online, but you can't vote online. How is that not. Yeah, and the thing is, if you could vote online, if people didn't have to physically go to a place, you how many more people would vote?


Probably insane because what is the number now like what percentage of people now vote? Is it like 40 percent?


It's yeah. Somewhere in the 40 percentile.


I bet we get that bitch up to 70. Yeah. I mean we get a pretty high if you could register on your phone and vote on your phone. My God, why can't you do that.


Well, there's, there's security issues related to that, as we all know, in terms of the hijacking of the or the security of the of the system that would be in place.


People who click on every fucking link, someone sends in a text message.




What's less clear there is that I know I agree with you in the sense that it would theoretically it would it would improve the turnout for sure. And it would certainly make life easier for a lot of people.


I just don't agree with. And again, my issue with the mail isn't isn't the fraud issue. So much is just the logistics of it. Right. And that and that that that delay. Yeah. And also the potential to have a lot of ballots just being disqualified or being put in question.


The same thing with online voting. I'm worried about the chaos.


I'm worried about the civil unrest. I really think that that could be the big one.


I think which you know what if I think if Congress would do its job, they would just say, you know what, the elections are common. They're going to be right on time and you're going to go to your voting polling places. And we're going to put in place special times for elderly citizens to vote. If they want to have a super safe environment, they can only vote like this, just like you do at Costco. Costco in our area had like seven.


The nine a.m. was only for people over sixty five.


If Costco can do that shit, I'm pretty sure we could do that with voting booth.


Yeah, why would how hard would just make it happen, but but again, it's temperature checks, especially since everybody everybody wears a mask, do it right, give it plenty of time, set up enough booths.


And if you want to do it over a two day period, fine, why not?


But at least you're at least you're establishing protocols that are are.


Yeah, I don't know how much I worry about the chaos. I mean, if you're going to let people vote by mail in September, how about let them show up at the polls that early as well? So you really could socially distance everybody. You really could absolutely ensure that everybody's safe.


Yeah, just spread it out over a designated period of time. We have five business days. You need to have, like open scoring, like a boxing match would be fucking tremendous.


You know, as you roll up on the voting booth, you got the numbers right up there. So it's like a Jerry Lewis type thing in here and fix this. Yeah. God damn hippies. You're going to elect that Biden. He can't even talk, dammit. Yeah.


He's a dictator of the Marxists trumps a dictator. He's not going to leave the White House if he loses.


Do you understand that we're going to have civil war? That man won't leave. He's a tyrant. Yeah.


I just wish there was somebody I could get behind. I wish there was somebody that just made sense. Somebody just like that stood out and she's like, that's our guy or girl.


That's the person. Condoleezza Rice and Nikki Haley. I would like to see that team. Mhm. Yeah. I mean for the Republicans, I know the Dems on the Dem side, they go up now. They wouldn't but that would have been a nice, I would've been a good team.


Well once if Trump does lose or if it goes to, you know, if he makes it to twenty, twenty four, that's going to be real weird because who is next in line there?


You know, I would tell him, Dan Crenshaw, he needs to run, but he's a young fellow.


He's got plenty of time. Yeah. Yeah. Who knows. He's a very reasonable Republican, though. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, look, that's and that's again, that's pences waiting on a sign from Jesus. Yeah.


He's but he's he would be the you know, if Trump wins you know who he would be the. Yeah. Yeah. The next guy.


So theoretically you're in line if he wants it. Well I mean some guys don't want to write like Al Gore. Yeah.


I didn't. Al Gore won it. Oh he did once. They kind of want it. They wanted it then. Yeah, I, I don't know. I just think.


I think if we. We're not going to walk the dog back, right, so it's not like I keep talking about centrists and moderates in both parties, and that's just not going to fucking happen. So, you know, we have what we have we're not going to get a third party that's going to be legitimate. And so what can we do?


Well, what sort of things could be done that could change the dynamic or at least get us more likely to have centrist candidates willing to work with each other? And I keep going back to the same things which are term limits and campaign finance reform. But then I think, well, that's just never going to happen because it's not in their self-interest. And so, you know, aliens, aliens. I think you're right. I think you're right.


That's what we need in a few months time when they come out, because it's not just aircraft that we we've recovered.


It's we need to wake up the actual aliens big up.


You know, it's interesting, the beginning of the pandemic. I was really hopeful. One of the reasons why I was really hopeful is this people seem nicer. It was like post 9/11 when everybody was concerned and, you know, they just they just felt like there was more humanity in the air. And I felt like that the beginning of the pandemic, people were nicer. They're more polite. There were there were really there were feeling fear and they realized, hey, you know, what's a really important health and family and your loved ones and people you care about, that's it's really important.


So we're all going to lock down and we're going to stay at home.


And, you know, me and my family, we didn't go anywhere, man. We just played games and we watch movies every night. And there was, you know, a lot of ways it was a bonding experience. You know, we had a lot of good times together. We cooked all our meals at home. Right, because we couldn't go out to dinner and we just stayed at home and played. And we were very fortunate that we have a yard and we have, you know, a dog.


And we went swimming and but, you know, it wasn't that bad. It was it was just, you know, it was a time to be thankful. And I felt like I felt like that from my neighbors to it's like we were all in that together.


Yeah, no, I agree. I think and that was that that, you know, only lasts for a short period of time. And then it's you know what it's like I always equate it to like a power outage.


You know that, right? You know, in a community, everybody's kind of pulling together. You all sort of it's sort of like you're camping, you know, for a few hours, for a few hours. And then everybody's down to Home Depot fighting over. The last generator is worried about toilet paper and bullets. Toilet paper. That was a weird, funny, weird as shit, my friend Duncan, was it?


No. Tom Green. Tom Green had a really good point. He's like, I think what happens is toilet paper takes up a large amount of space on the shelf. Someone toilet people starts going away. People see that empty space and they start panting like, oh my God, I need toilet paper. Because if you have, like, a thousand people trying to get toilet paper in a supermarket, you're not going to. It doesn't work. No, no.


I was I was I was stunned. I will I didn't see that coming.


You know, we usually we tend to have a pretty good stocked pantry and, you know, the silos full. But you have a silo now. I just I just sit right next to your burger.


It is it is it. It's got it. Yeah. It's go out there, get some corn. Yeah. But yeah I couldn't believe it. We walked into the local Albertsons and shelves are bare.


No toilet paper. We thought what the fuck's up with people, you know, just buy what you need.


And I never thought we'd have a run on, on, on paper goods but and so it didn't take very long. But I agree with that initial period of time.


You know, we were worried about our elderly neighbors. You know, can we get them anything? Are you worried about your your you know, your friends? Can you help them out in some way? And yeah, it was you know, I feel the same way. We were very fortunate in that we could we could stay comfortably at home. Yeah.


And hang out with the boys and, you know, our three little dudes, man, you know, after a couple of days you're thinking, OK, I get to go outside.


Okay, you get it here anymore.


But I had a lot of friends change their opinion on the Second Amendment.


Yeah, they were coming to me. Yeah. I had guys like beating around the bush. So what do you have to do to get a gun like, oh, OK.


I have a real good friend and his wife is like, you are never having a gun.


We're never having a gun in this house. The moment the pandemic hit, you have to get a gun. We need a gun. She was immediate. We need a gun.


And he was laughing and he's like, she told me to go get a gun.


Yeah, we're on the phone. Go, go, go, go get a gun. I'm like, that is so fucking funny.


Go to Piggly Wiggly or wherever you get your guns.


She's a good person. She doesn't. It's not that she's a bad person. It's just her idea was that guns are for bad people and you have a gun in the house, you're more likely to shoot each other and you don't need that in your life.


And, you know, and I think a lot of those friends that I have who have wives like that, they look at me like I'm a caveman, like, oh, this dickhead, he likes to shoot elk with a bow and arrow and he's always shooting guns. And he says he's a liberal, but I don't believe them. Yeah, like, look, the same reason why I know how to fight self-defense is fucking important. I give some shit.


Goes down how many goddamn videos you see where two people are in a fight and neither one of them knows how to how to fight? Oh my God, it's a schoolyard slap fight.


It's terrible. I don't want to be that guy. Don't I work with my boys to tell them the same thing? I said, look, this is what we have. And so we spent a fair amount of time on it.


And I'm not creating bullies. No, I'm creating guys that can defend themselves, their brothers and their friends. Right. And if you if you see that and and you need to take a stand, then you need to know what the hell you going to do. Otherwise you're going to get smashed in the face and you're not going to like it.


My kids are allowed to hit me, not my 23 year old. She is fucking hard. She can hit hard. She's really powerful.


But my 10 year old my 10 year old leg kicks me at least once a day.


I taught her the spot to hit and she fucking digs in with the shin. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God. She hurts me a little 10 year old girl. Well, they're, they're, they're, they're leverage at the height, you know, they're.


Yeah. Well, she knows how to do it too. She's been doing it since she was.


I mean I enrolled her in martial arts and she was five years old. OK, so here she is at ten. She she knows how to kick. So she's she's like put her dukes up. Like, go ahead, go ahead, get in there. And she slam she slams that shit in there is terrifying how hard a ten year old can kick you in your leg.


Yeah. Fucking hurts man.


My problem is that, you know, they'll they lay in wait. Right. You. Yeah. Like mugs.


You punch me in the junk one time, drop me to my knees. I shit you not. He just he literally I wasn't even expecting that turned around.


He came around the corner, he caught me right in the junk. I was on my knees gasping as you do. Right. It's, it's a it's, it's happened a few times and it's always you never feel any different. And and he sat there and sat there.


He stood there and he laughed maniacally. Then he wandered off and at that good God. But it was a hell of a shot.


It's not a good spot to get hit. Now, when I was younger, I was convinced that I was sterile. I was like, there's no way I could be having kids.


I've been kicked in the balls. I don't know, a hundred times like, no, no bullshit by grown men. I've been kicked in the balls a hundred times mean there's no way my balls work.


Those fucking batter think those poor nuggets.


I should have known, though I have muscles like my testosterone works. I was like my balls probably work too. Yeah.


Yeah. You know, I just survived. Yeah, yeah. I just assumed they were just a fucking bomb shelter.


But I've had the same, I've had people say the same thing. It's like what would you recommend, you know, for for home defense and you know, what do you. And it is and it's been a remarkable increase in the past three to four months.


Is it nutty, like 40 percent increase or something crazy like that?


Yeah. I mean, and it makes to me it makes sense. I mean, you know, they realize. Yeah. I mean, why wouldn't you?


I mean, you know, your home defense, it just it's it's a pretty basic thing.


But it is it is surprising. And I do have friends who same way who would like to purchase something for, you know, for for that purpose. But their spouses are like, no, absolutely not. But even still even still find a new spouse.


Yeah. Because if your lives depend on it and saving your family's life and you realize at that moment that you were wrong, you look, you could get a gun safe, OK? It's not it's not hard to keep everything safe.


You just have to be diligent. You have to be intelligent. You do the right thing. You know, you keep them locked up. It's not that hard, folks.


It's really not. But it does come down to again, the problem is always the people that buy have no education and then don't train.


And those are the people that are dangerous and they're dangerous to themselves or dangerous to their kids.


And it's hard to train them. I mean, it's hard to be depending on where you're at. The thing is, like, you know, some places have basic firearm safety that you have to pass. I mean, I think I had a like I fell on a fucking like a multiple choice.


It's easy, right?


But it's it's multiple choice. Yes. Yes. No bullshit. But what they don't do is you have to show physical proficiency. There's places that you have to go where if you want to bow hunt, OK, yeah. You have to be able to hit. I think it's like a paper plate sized target. You have to be able to hit like X amount of arrows. I think it's 30 yards or something like that in order for them to pass you for a boat.


But some place is not it's not consistent. And but with handguns and guns, you could just buy one just if you pass that test. No one. I mean, you have to know, like on paper what you're not supposed to do. But in terms of like showing any sort of proficiency or I mean, how many people have guns and they've never even shot them.


They don't know which way is safe.


Not and that's the worst thing you can do. So if you're going to do that, then don't get one. I'm a big believer in that. Don't just don't don't buy one unless you're going to practice and you're going to constantly work that mechanism. But, you know, I've taken a handful of concealed carry courses in the past and a couple of times a curiosity to see what they're doing. And the training is are the the courses are. I'm not that good.


All right, and that they they spend a fair amount of time on the legal issues, right.


Because that's a big you know, carrying a weapon is a pain in the ass. Right.


It's a real pain in the ass. And it's in it's fraught with potential problems. And that's and you see difficulties because people don't understand the ramifications of it.


They understand that it's you know, it's not fun. It's just it's a it's a big responsibility. Big responsibility.


Huge. But you're right, that typical training, depending on where you're at in certain places, it's very difficult to go out regularly, get to the range once a week, which is what you should be doing.


Yeah. Yeah, you really should.


I mean, when I take a week off and I go to the range, I feel a little rusty, like my first few shots. I feel a little rusty.


Yeah, it's muscle memory, but it doesn't. It deteriorates unlike some things. It's it deteriorates quicker for, you know, for a variety of reasons.


But you can't get I can't emphasize it enough. So all those people that have rushed out in the past four months to buy weapons, you better be exercising that thing. Yeah.


Please find a place where you can go please and learn. Yeah. And I mean, even if you don't if you don't shoot and you make sure you understand how to tell if there's not a round in the chamber, understand drive firing. Amy, even if you're just going to drive fire. I have friends that are competitive shooters that if they don't shoot every day, they drive fire for 30 minutes every day. Yeah. You know, they practice.


Yeah. And it's also, you know, understanding the mechanism. Right. Understanding the machine. And so spend time. Right. Take it apart, put it together, take it apart, put it together, just keep doing that, cleaning it. All those things help you become more aware. And and it also builds a sense of of responsibility. Right. It makes you understand the importance of handling it properly and storing it properly. So, yeah.


So we sound like a local gun store. A public announcement. Yeah. Yeah.


Like a gun store. I want to talk to you about remote viewing. Yeah.


Uh, uh, men who stare at goats. Yeah.


You're going to do are you going to do an episode of that for you. What's the television show again.


Oh thank you for asking. Uh, it's black files declassified. I'm not sure if it's on the Discovery Science Science Channel. Yeah.


And we we've just we've we've had an order for a second season of congratulations. Yeah. Thank you. So we'll be doing at least eight new episodes here, filming new one on that remote viewing.


That's the plan.


We're talking together a show map.


You know, it it falls in the category of once again, kind of like we've talked about with MK Ultra. The idea being initially it was a defensive concern over what what are our enemies doing. Right. And so the concepts behind remote viewing, much like the concepts behind understanding behavioral conditioning or, you know, false memories, creating new memories, it started because we were concerned about what the enemy was up to and the enemy being the Soviets in the old days and the Chinese.


So what do I think about it?


Uh, um, I'm a cynic, I guess is the best way to put it.


Yeah, I'm not necessarily buying the idea of, uh, of remote viewing of sort of how we want to refer to it mind control.


But, um, I understand why there's or there was interest. I understand why there were programs designed to try to figure this out. Who's the granddaddy of that stuff? This is one guy who's famous.


What's his name? You remember from the Arbel Show? Yeah, I got to meet a guy got you'll get it before us again.


You know what? But the agency made me forget that he's a little fellow.


I was going to I was about to recall, and then suddenly I couldn't. Adam. Oh, that's not him, Ed Dames, that's the ego swan is the guy who invented it, though. Oh, he's just a different guy, so Ed Dames is the guy that I met. Yeah, I met. You met him. Yeah. See if he's still alive because I'm gonna talk shit about him if he's not. Is he nice? Let's find out what kind of condition he's in before he's in a very nice yeah, very nice guy.


We'll leave it at that. Yeah, I didn't I didn't believe it.


I didn't buy it. But he was telling me that they they actually got some actionable data from his remote viewing sessions that they used, I believe they used for bin Laden. He was saying, I'm like that again.


Look, I do. I think that there's certain things you can do to to to train your mind to perform better, I think.


Yes, absolutely. Yeah, sure. Right. So kind shit. No, no.


So, yeah, I think that's look, they had a program, the military had a program for quite some time called Super Soldier, and it looked at a variety of things.


Right, in concert with some various intel community agencies.


And it looked at a variety of things, including the issue of remote viewing.


But mostly what they were looking at is how do you enhance performance out in the field? How do you make a soldier, you know, stronger, smarter, safer, faster, all these things and ultimately where they settled was essentially technology.


I mean, this issue of, you know, they ended up on things like the suit and other things that can enhance. So skeleton. Yeah, exactly. You can enhance your abilities to exist and and to, you know, to hump shit out in the field.


And but also, you know, you say hum. You mean carry carry stuff.


Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.


To be really clear, to show you're sitting in the safe house in San Francisco and Sixties watching some hooker homes, John, on LSD, could I think about how weird that must have been.


So we're a bunch of freaks and got to do whatever you wanted because you're the government. Yeah. You've got a green light to do this.


Well, guys like Sidney Gottlieb, who was the head of that operation, and guys like George White, now I'm sure they couched what they were doing because I knew, you know, once it veered off into those whole unwitting testing and all the rest of this shit they were doing, you know, that they knew they were aware Sidney Gottlieb was a very complex individual. Right.


And but he knew what he was doing. But that ability to couch it in terms of, you know, we're fighting an existential threat. So we're doing this for national security. I mean, I think it can kind of make it easier for a person to to overlook sort of the questions, the ethical questions, because you're doing it for patriotic reasons. But you've got nukes pointed at you from the other side and you legitimately feel like, OK, we're going to do this anyway.


I'm not sure where I was going with that. But, yeah, the the idea of super soldier, fascinating stuff.


How far they've gotten with the exoskeleton. Sure. Well, I mean, they've got several prototypes, a handful of companies out there.


Russians have deployed what they use for for a power source. Well, so that's part of the problem. Batteries and battery technology being what it is.


It's still a problem.


Yeah, and that's it. And whoever comes up with the the better battery always wins. Right. And so what they found so far anyway is and they've got they've got some prototypes that don't rely on batteries at all. Right. That just use of of essentially spring technology. And, you know, it's taking pressure off of the key joints, allowing you to lift heavier. And that's really where these things have come into place so far. You're not seeing super soldiers out and, you know, the combat, you know, fighting each other and, you know, running at high speeds and carrying loads of shit.


You're seeing it in fairly pedestrian way so far in logistics. Right. And you know, the guys that are loading trucks. Right. And are doing that in 120 degree heat and it need some help right now. So the exoskeletons have been very successful in that regard.


Other technology, though, information and how information flows to the warfighter.


So sort of the Google Glass concept and wondering what they're doing with that augmented reality, augmented reality, but the ability to feed information to the soldier, you know, in real time and then also to take information from the soldier in terms of their biofeedback and, you know, blood pressure, heart rate, that sort of thing. That's all very, very important stuff.


The problem is sometimes you can as you know, you can overload that individual right.


When when shit hits the fan and everything starts to shut down. You don't necessarily want a lot more information coming in sometimes. Right, because you're you're focusing.


And so all this data, you know, sometimes that's not particularly helpful, but the ability to do it in the proper situation is very is very important.


So there's a lot of research still going into that. It's just that the early days of, you know, remote viewing and other ways of of of creating a different type of war fighter.


You know, there you know, it's more a pedestrian effort right now. Again, Russians are, you know. And the same thing, Chinese are engaged in the same thing, just like we're all engaged in the race for hypersonic unmanned vehicles and weapons.


I'm worried about genetic manipulation because I'm worried that we're not going to do it, but they're going to do it first.


And that like the idea of a super soldier, like using CRISPR, some of these gene editing tools, that that actually could be real, that you I mean, you look in a place like China where you don't get to decide what you do for a living.


They really could recruit a large number of people and sort of develop soldiers in that regard.


Yeah, and I think that's I don't think that's in the realm of the impossible and I don't think it's not being done. I would be sure that exactly.


Well, I'm thinking like 50 years from now, like when we're like, is it ethical?


Should we do this? Any of a bunch of senators debating it? Meanwhile, in China, they're fucking full steam ahead. Yeah.


And I think and here's where it's interesting is because, you know, again, people listening or there'll be some folks listening going, well, you know, come on, fucking ethical us.


Of course, the U.S. government is doing it and but we are fundamentally different.


Yes. MK Ultra, since we were talking about it. Yeah. That was a horrendous, you know, situation of.


Right. When we're way off the rails.


Shouldn't have happened. Was exposed. Right. Which is all by itself an indication of of how we're different from from the Russians or from the Chinese.


The Chinese are going to hold some in you know, in their in their committee hearings. You know, they're going to call to the carpet to play and tell operators and say, well, what have you been, oh, my God, this is terrible. Or the Russians are going to do that.


Putin's going to call the FSB and and throw them out there in a in a in a committee hearing. Now, bullshit.


So when people want to talk about how the US is engaged. Well, OK. Yeah, we've been off the rails at times. We do tend to try to self correct whichever administration is in charge.


But more importantly, we do have and we've you know, and I hope we maintain it, we'd have had a track record of transparency to again, to compare it to our is 100 percent transparent.




Should it be now, but. Compared to are those others, yeah, we do a pretty good job. Yeah, yeah. So I would agree. So this remote viewing. Did they ever get anything out of it? Was there any data that was there any anybody was there ever anyone who was really good at it or better at it? Was there anything to it? No. So how does it still how is it still a subject?


It captures the imagination. I mean, it's it's it's like how is Manson still a subject? Well, he's fascinating. And it was a fascinating period of time. Remote viewing is I think it's it's fascinating. It's kind of it's again, it's like so it's like psychics they wanted to find like, don't don't we still actually use psychics for certain, like like they try to find bodies and shit that they have first mystery TV shows or PBS or something.


I don't know. You always hear about it.


I guess they bring in psychics. I mean, really, I don't know, you know, a very, very good friend of mine who was a homicide detective in the UK's Met Police.


He works with me now and in my business and Diligence Diligence USA, for all your information and security needs, he never talked about a psychic ever being brought in.


And he handled a lot of cases.


But we TV shows. Yeah. When I had asked him about that, I want to bring it up as I ask and know of.


But he said, you know, I don't believe so, but yeah, nothing really.


I mean, again, maybe there's a file sitting in the retired records office of the agency.


You know, we'll never going to see it.


But as far as I've seen, it was never a record of success from it.


But it is I get why it's of interest and why people are fascinated by it.


It makes sense. Yeah. I mean, it's it's like everything else. It's like, yeah.


I guess the government had to find out whether or not MK Ultra like when they were doing that, like, let's see, like there's only one way to find out, well if you don't believe in it at all. But it turns out to be true. And there are a few people that have developed techniques like, look, no, this is real.


Hypnosis is weird. You know, maybe there's something to this shit.


Maybe if you just follow the right techniques and get yourself in the right mindset, you have access to information that's not available any other way.


And hypnosis, again, was part of the cult or subprojects. Right. And it's because there was concern that, you know, the enemy had this research or that they were making headway.


And so, again, a lot of things that develop initially, it's because it's a defensive response because we learn something about what some hostile entity is doing. And then you have to move immediately to, OK, well, do we need this for offensive purposes? Because if they're doing it, do we need to have that capability? So and I'd always argue with with certainly you go into the realm of cyber warfare.


Yeah. You better have that capability.


You know, both sides well, that's where things like that neural link technology is very interesting, because if it really if somehow or another you really can communicate with someone who's not there without using any words, which is what Elon said to me, because you're gonna be able to talk without using words. Well, if you can do that at a distance, like if you can literally guide someone, like if say, if you got someone who's on a mission in Afghanistan and you you are watching on a satellite and you can guide them without giving them any noise, without saying anything to them, and you can give them all the data, whether it's through augmented reality, augmented reality, like glasses or something like that, save a lot of lives and get a lot of jobs done.


Oh, no. And they're doing that. I mean, you know, Aberdeen and and other areas.


I mean, they're working on some pretty amazing technology. Right.


And so that ability to feed a lot of data, like if you're about to go through a door, right. You right up on some target, you know, and you need to know what the hell is going on.


And you've got that ability to to, you know, make that happen. That's that's tremendous. Right. It it makes for a safer, smarter, better soldier out there. And so and that's an important thing because that actually saves lives, like you said. So. Yeah, but so that is happening.


It's the it's the idea of communicating without, you know, it's the wooshing. Yeah. That's that's the part that that may be further down the road than Elon Musk. Thanks.


You know, did you have an open mind when you went into this remote viewing discussion? Sort of.


I am a little crack in the door. Yeah. Yeah, I did. Yeah. I mean, I think you have to look nothing 100 percent.


Right. It's like you were saying earlier. Right. We always want to think we're absolutely right. And I don't I don't ever assume I'm absolutely right on something unless it's two plus two. Right. I mean, OK, that's that's pretty proven.


But but so I think you have to go into anything in any any time. Are you going to do an investigation? You have to leave the door open a little bit for the unknowns, but you do have to build what you're doing on something sound. So you can't. You don't want to base your your your decision making on just a theory or an allegation or belief, right?


You've got it. So every investigation needs to be built on something solid, otherwise it's it just falling apart. And so that's kind of where we, you know, did I mention blackfellas declassified that's coming out that says second season.


Did I say, oh, well, in the pandemic world, we probably won't be able to film until later this year.


Yeah. How do you film? Yeah, we just wear masks.


I'm going to just wear I'll wear a mask. Yeah. Just Stenton. Every episode I wear a different mask like a full overhead mask. That's good. Yeah. It'll be fun. Yeah. We'll figure it out. We'll figure it out. I mean shit that's this entire town in Los Angeles has been dealing with that bullshit. Yeah. All these people out of work in production companies and all the independent contractors who don't have jobs because nothing's filming and nobody knows how to film and they don't want to you know, they don't take on the insurance.


So it's hit that industry hard. I know everybody's like, oh, my God, it's in the entertainment industry hard.


But I think what a lot of they're doing is quarantining people, testing them and quarantining them, forcing them to stay on set, you know, quarantine them in a hotel. They've rented out things along those lines. I know Tyler Perry has been real successful at doing that, but he's smart. Yeah, he's got his own he's got his own studios. He's got his own set up, and he just has everybody locked down at the place where they're filming.


Yeah, but I mean, all all those people that that don't have that option right now, just like I know a lot of folks that, you know, working as you know, camera operators are soundmen are just, you know, anything in the business and they're just they're fucked. So.


Well, for the longest time, the UFC was the only sports entity that was functioning. And we've been doing shows at the UFC for several months now. Yeah, yeah.


That which is a good you know, it lends itself to certain activity like the NBA. Now they can operate in this bubble. Yeah, right. But baseball, you know, I don't think football is going to happen. But I mean, it's interesting.


Everybody was so hopeful. Yeah. I mean, like, I will get it sorted out by then. Yeah. I really love my boy Sluggo is he couldn't be happier.


He's he's a basketball freak.


And and the fact that they're planning to do it is nice. Yeah.


Look, it's nice, you know, audience or no audience, at least people at home have something to watch. You know, I'm very thankful that UFC puts on all these fights. Yeah. You know, it's give me some interesting shit to watch.


What are you gonna miss? You're moving out of here. What are you going to miss about? Ain't gonna miss shit.


You haven't practiced that before.


I'm no, I'm an impromptu kind of a guy. I'm gonna miss the Comedy Store and I'm going to miss my friends. It's a lot of restaurants and a lot of a lot of people I know out here that are good people. I just I feel like this place is overwhelming and overcrowded and I've had enough. And I like change. It's exciting. Yeah. Yeah. My my next move will probably be Montana. After that, I'm going to go to Texas and then Montana.


Yeah. Don't come to Idaho with full force. I yeah. That's what I hear them tell anybody. I look forward to seeing you in Texas man. Yeah. Come visit me out there.


Yeah. I'll take you around, get you to some real barbecue. Yeah.


Austin's Austin's a great town and all the Texas is interested. I'm a fan. Good cats. I'm excited to go there. Yeah. All right. Mike Baker, thank you very much, sir. Next time I see you, probably in another state, we'll be in Texas, I guess. Yeah. Cowboy boots. Are you kidding me? I got like half a dozen pair of cowboy boots you give. Jamie's going to buy some. He's excited about it.


Look at them. Thanks. Thank you, brother. Bye, everybody. See soon. Thank you, friends, for tuning in to the show. And thank you to policy genius. If you're a homeowner, head over to policy genius dotcom right now to get started. They've saved their home and auto insurance customers an average of one thousand one hundred and twenty seven dollars a year. And who knows what weirdly specific amount they could save. You were also brought to you by, a proud sponsor of this show since 2013.


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