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Free shipping and a 100 percent satisfaction guarantee. Go to Magic Spoon Dotcom Joe. All right, folks, if you're listening to this, you are listening on either iTunes or one of the Android apps, that's not Spotify. This is September 1st from now until December 1st. This podcast will be available everywhere, but starting on December 1st, it will only be available on Spotify. People like why the money? They give me a lot of money. That's really the only reason.

But also, Spotify is an awesome company. It just made sense. It was a good deal, but it's free. That's what I want you to know. You can get it on Spotify for free. All I'm asking is you download the application, it will have video for free. There will be the regular podcast for free. So if you're listening to this on any other platform in December 1st, that's when it becomes only available on Spotify. My guest today is one of my favorite human beings on Earth.

He is one of the most unique and interesting people that I know. And every time we get together and do a podcast, it it's just there's a thing that happens when the two of us together that doesn't happen when I'm alone and I don't. And he says it doesn't happen when he's alone either. We we complement each other in a very unusual way. And it's because we're so close. We've been friends for a long time. He used to work at the Comedy Store.

My friend is Duncan Trussell. That's why I'm introducing him. And he was the guy who would take your availability. So I'd call up and I'd say, hey, I'm in town Wednesday through Friday.

And then we would talk and we would have these long conversations on the phone, sometimes for hours at a time while he was working there, because, you know, oftentimes the phone would ring for 15, 20 minutes and he and I would just be talking.

And I took him on the road with me. And we lived together for a little while. He got kicked out by his girlfriend. He lived with me for a few months. I just love this guy to death. He's an amazing human being. He's one of the more interesting and more introspective, more fascinating people I've ever met in my life.

Please give your love and affection to the great and powerful Duncan Trussel girlfriend podcast, The Joe Rogan Experience, joined by Joe Rogan podcast My Night All Day.

Duncan, hello, Joe, how are you, my friend? I'm great, man, I'm psyched to be here to you, sir. Cheers, Brother Chris now. Great to see you.

Mm hmm. Always. That's good, my friend.

It's a strange time. And, uh, we're both departing this land now for greener pastures.

I keep thinking back to when we first became friends. In the strange path. Sent from there to here and all our predictions and all the things that we never would have imagined, this, you know, specifically like that there would be this fucking global pandemic that we would suddenly be like.

Some kind of like refugee is way too dramatic a word for it, but suddenly just part of this diaspora of comedians pouring out of L.A. and not just comedians, but just people leaving, man.

Well, I talked to Joey today from New Jersey, called, you know, called him. He's in New Jersey. And it was just such was so strange. Like you're in Jersey and he's like, That's right, motherfucker. Yeah. You know, he's unhappy. Happy in Jersey.

You know, he was the last like you even was intense. But I was still like, you know, maybe we'll stick around and see what happens.

And then, like, I've been getting all these, you know, the problem with me is like I get weird vibes all the time and not like the last time I was on here, I legitimately thought a meteor was going to hit the earth. I guess I really thought that. So I work very hard on not listening to that part of me most of the time. But I was getting this real weird vibe from L.A. and I'm like, come on, man, you're just like superstitious.

It's it's probably nothing. And then then my wife would say, like, I'm getting a really weird vibe, like maybe I don't know if we should stay here renting, we should stay in the place.

And I didn't want to tell her. Oh, I've been getting a weird vibe, too, because I didn't want to amplify whatever that was. And then I got on the phone, Diaz, and he's like, Yeah, I'm leaving, getting the fuck out of here.

And that was it was tell me, Burbank was sketchy where he lives in Burbank, my neighborhood, during the shit, like instantly, dude.

It's like, yeah, it's it's not and it's not just any one thing, you know, it's like not just like some of the stuff I get stuff I had to get shut down and because stuff was shut down, it got a little more weather than usual.

And it's like, you know, the homeless encampments.

I was in Echo Park man.

And like, I really feel like, you know, like the red state people. One of the things they love to tweet is like, don't bring your liberal bullshit here. Right. All right.

Well, that's where I'm eating shit a little bit because, you know, I am I do still believe that we need to decriminalize drugs, that the drug policies bullshit the way we're handling.

It's all wrong, but. They used to be a way that they could get people who are like camping out on the streets and a lot of the times that was possession of like illegal drugs. And because that that stuff got removed, suddenly you were witnessing like, holy shit, man.

There's people who are making like real like a rational decision from the perspective of a heroin addict, which is they love heroin so much. You know that Doug Stanhope jokes some things are better than life. Like they love heroin so much.

They're addicted to it. They love it.

And the shelters that are apparently available won't let them do drugs in the shelters. They want you to kick it. Yeah, and so that's ridiculous.

But now I could be wrong about that. But that is what I've heard is one of the reasons these people are staying out in the street is not because they don't want to be in a shelter. It's because they don't want to be prevented from getting high. And so this has produced this like situation in a lot of the big cities, which is we're seeing like massive tent cities. And by the way, the tent city thing, aesthetically, it's not a it's not the best look.

But the stuff that I began to experience in Echo Park, where I took I took my kid to the playground.

Right.

And there's like a dude that looks like he emerged from a time portal from an apocalypse, you know what I mean? I'm not talking about, like, you know, run of the mill.

Like somebody who's a junkie who's like I'm talking like covered in like soot, like pure dilated eyes, not wearing like, you know, the disheveled clothes you might expect from someone who's been addicted to heroin for a long time.

But like wearing like like he broke into wherever the costumes from Mad Max were, like some kind of weird leather vest thing and like like creepy fucking cut off shorts.

And he had a machete. Oh, jeez.

And he's throwing it into the ground of the playground and pulling it out like he's practicing throwing a machete.

I'm with my fucking toddler man.

And, you know, it's like and so obviously we didn't go to the playground, but that was my you know, it was not uncommon in that area to see completely naked people.

Just not that that's bad, but not naked, like the way covered in dirt wandering aimlessly do even worse than wandering aimlessly, wandering with what seems to be a purpose in their eyes, some of them seeming like they're late.

Where the fuck are you go and naked that you're late for.

Like, are you being so mean?

Like that was that was OK. But that wasn't just it, man. You know, it's a lot of other things too. And it all just started piling on top of it.

I don't think this is sustainable living in giant groups of people. I think it's when when it works great. It was wonderful when L.A. was was working well, it was fantastic when the Comedy Store was packed and restaurants were doing well and the economy was doing well and the crime wasn't high, it's great. But when things go bad, there's no sense of community. So then there's a sense of like people capitalizing on other people who either own stores or who aren't home or whatever, people who are desperate.

There's just too many people. Yeah, if you're in a community that's a small town and something goes wrong, you can kind of bunch up together and help each other. Yeah. Because you feel like you need each other and you feel like you're a part of something. People don't feel like they're a part of something here. They're all transient. Everybody's moved here from someone else, from somewhere else. Everybody thinks they can go somewhere else and they can and they probably will.

I mean, I you know, we all came from you were North Carolina. I came from New York at the time. We all everybody who comes to L.A. in show business. God, what are the percentage of like how many do we know that are just straight? L.A. like Christina Brezinski, she's straight away.

Who else? Sebastian came from Chicago.

Theo came from Nashville. Nashville is everything from. No, no. Louisiana.

That's right. I mean, Joey, obviously. Jersey.

Yeah, well, Gypsy Gypsy Jazz, which is something I've always loved about it. I've loved that element of like just this wild vortex and artists and narcissists and people have just gone insane.

And like it's a lot of the sparks fly in that kind of insane cauldron of identity.

All that stuff is super cool. It's beautiful. That's one of the things I loved about it is like the place we all know this is the place is the place where you make illusion. Yeah, that was the idea. You make things that aren't real seem real and people like to watch that. That's the whole TV movie industry. The whole place is based on creating an identity that you like somehow monetize. Our studio makes you monetizes your identity or something.

It was something magical and beautiful in all of that. But not, it seems.

There is a real emperor wears no clothes thing happening right now, not just in L.A. and I feel bad talking shit about L.A. because man has been so good to both of us.

Yeah, I mean, this city is like I will always love this place.

Not the problem is on the city. This is the I've been thinking about this a lot lately. And here's an issue. I am progressive on just about every issue across the board.

Yeah. Gay rights, civil rights, women's rights, whatever a woman's right to choose.

Fill in the blank, pro Medicaid, pro universal, basic income pro, so many things. But there's a thing that happens in large cities where large cities are always blue. And I'm trying to figure this out because like New York and I used to think it's always because they're educated, you know, and educated people are more likely to be compassionate and compassionate people are more likely to be Democrats.

But there's a balance that has to be achieved.

And when the shit hits the fan, you need law and order. And I think that some people who are Democrats, who are progressive people, they don't understand that aspect of human nature or they want to deny that aspect of human nature, like when the mayor of Seattle was dealing with that whole six area locked down little small little country that they had put up barriers and shit and like literally had armed guards there.

That was it called, again, chop chop, which has. Right. The mayor said maybe this is our summer of love.

Look, no, it's not summer of love. Some people took over other people's businesses with force, like just because they think the way you think or they subscribe to liberal ideas like you, like you're a liberal, too. So this is like your gang of thugs you have to support when they take over other people's businesses. Now, we have to be able to call out everybody.

And just because somebody is on your side, you can't let them take over city blocks and just institute their own government and then say it's the summer of love. This is crazy talk and this is how this is gets get cities destroyed and this is what gets the police defunded. And this is what gets people saying crazy things like we need to disband the release everyone from prison and no more prisons and no more laws and no more police. And like, no, the way things go well is you have to be safe.

The only way you're safe is if you have a strong military and a strong police force. And there's something about liberals that don't want to believe that they see the bad cops, they see these videos. And we all agree we got to get rid of bad cops. They got to reform the police. They have to. But those are not all the cops. That's crazy. You're just want to see the bad. No one's no one's filming excellent interactions with friendly cops and compliant people.

That's not your film. Not going to get a lot of it, but that's the majority of these interactions.

But we have this distorted perception based on what we're exposed to, which is viral videos of cops being cunts, because there are cops that are cunts, because there's people that are cunts and there's who knows how many fucking hundreds of thousands, if not millions of cops. There are the odds that they're not hundreds and thousands of cunts is outrageous.

Well, you know what I've been doing with this whole fucking thing, man, because if I get because you know me, the way my mind goes is not going to be like red state consciousness when it comes to that shit.

Because when I saw that autonomous zone pop up, I'm like, let's do it, baby. Spread it out, come out.

But what did you think would be good? What could good could have come of that? Well, I mean, the history of America is it is is this beautiful yet somewhat like there's a there's a mania, a utopian mania in the heart of, I think, an American spirit, which is like Americans identify with this. You know, George Carlin did a great job of desiccating it by saying it's called the American Dream because you got to be asleep to believe.

I love that joke, but I love the American dream.

And that what's so beautiful about it is it's this idea of like I think together we can do something new that's going to be better than anything that happened before. And from that spirit, you get all great innovation that goes across all political ideologies. Right. So to me, you know, and they always call it I've always loved that.

They call it the American experiment.

Fucking love that man because it's an experiment. It's like, let's see what we could do here together. And for an experiment to work, we need to be able to look at what didn't work and the experiment and improve upon it.

Now, that being said, it's like for me, I've been trying to like pull myself out of the even though I identify as a progressive, I'm going to vote Democrat. I'm just what I'm going to do. But that being said, I try to pull myself out of that because I don't want to be cubie, old man. And I have a lot of friends who are like hard core conservatives. And I know that there is this idea. And I think a lot of the the idea gets perpetuated by people who are into tribalism.

Blue, red and south of the blue people, they propagate conceptualisation of the red people, which is kind of what you said. Well, they're not compassionate.

It's like, shut the fuck up. Ridiculous. Get the fuck out of here. These are some of the most compassionate people I've ever met in my fucking life. They would die for people that they've never met.

They would think a big problem is the figurehead. Right now, the Republican Party is Trump. Trump is such a polarizing figure and he doesn't seem to have much empathy, if any. You know, I mean, it's you don't know who he is really, because you don't talk to him privately. But his public persona is that of a winner who doesn't give a fuck and you're fired. I mean, that's that's a non empathetic perspective. And we also associate people who support him with also lacking empathy.

Then you add into it children in cages at the border and you see those videos.

You know what bothered me more than anything about the kids in cages? There was one video that really bothered me where Mike Pence went to visit like he's on the ground, like next to the cages.

See if you can find that Mike Pence visiting the border cages. Now, apparently, these cages had been put up through Obama.

And that's what's interesting about this whole border wall and border discussion and immigration discussion, because Obama, particularly when he was running for president, he was very tough on illegal immigration.

I mean, he he said a lot of the same things that Trump said.

If you listen to the speeches that Obama said people believed him and agreed with him because it wasn't a Republican talking point, it was just a safety talking point. And he was also a way that he could get people that were more like more concerned about the problem with illegal immigration or more. You know, he could he could tie that up with just saying, listen, we have to follow the rule of law. And, you know, they had these talks and they built these these cages.

They did that during the Obama administration, right? Yeah. So here's this. So these these are the guys that fled from Mexico and who knows where else and came through the Mexican border. And then Pence is standing there in front of these guys. So, like, imagine you're a dude. You live in, you know, Ecuador and you make your way up through Mexico because you have a fucking dream. Like America is the land where people can make it.

This is this guy who fights in the UFC. His name is Marlon Vaira, and he's a bad motherfucker. And he just won this weekend. And he's I believe he's from Ecuador. Right? That's Marlen's. Yes.

And he talked about it in his victory speech. He was talking about, you know, how he man, you know, you can you can actually do it. He came over here he was talking about in the countdown show, too. He came over here. He lived a year without his family, just building up money and fighting to try to get money to bring his family over. And then he brought his family over. And then as time has gone on, he keeps when he's on like a seven fight win streak and now he's like a top ten contender in the UFC.

And he could have been one of those dudes. That's right. See, this this this is not these are just people that are in a fucking terrible place and they're trying to get out putting him in cages like it just it's a bad look and it's an even worse. Imagine you're that guy who comes over from Ecuador and you're in this cage and you see Pentz, he could touch them.

You could touch him. If that cage was in there, you could reach out and touch him on the shoulder. Yeah, right there. Right. The fucking guy who's second in line to the the most powerful army. Yeah. The world has ever known the Trumps the commander in chief. That's number two. Yeah. And he's right there in front of a cage and he doesn't seem to care like play this. It's weird.

I don't know how I want him to to look, but he's not like looking at the people. He's kind of like, look, in a way he's kind of like ignoring the people. I mean, I don't know what you're supposed to do.

Are you supposed to look at them with that, fill you with sorrow and despair? Would you not be able to rationalize and disconnect yourself from the humans that are suffering? When you think about all of us, we're basically the products of a fucking enormous chain of events. Not one thing, but look at they have foil blankets, man. I mean, this is crazy shit. They're stacked in there, stacked on top of each other wearing foil blankets.

Yeah, it's terrible. And it's look at that, guys. They out as kids. Yes. And he's got a family back home with. No, no. His kids got separated from him. Yeah. That too. That's what he's thinking about.

And you know, and again, man, it's like I keep trying to get out of it, like I keep trying to get out because this is what I've realized because I love flipping through. I go from I will jump back and forth from like Fox News to CNN, MSNBC.

I'll check out some Tucker Carlson. Blast over to Rachel Maddow. Find like like polar opposites and what I feel like what's happening just as a result of the entertainment that is news is that we're getting a very non nuanced.

We're being told what we are. Do you listen to or watch the Hill? No, you should watch Rising the Hill. It's Crystal and Saagar and Soga is a Republican and Crystal is a Democrat. And but both of them super smart and really rational. And they're all they're honest and they're non-partisan and they break things down based on their honest interpretation of what's going on. And it's so refreshing. These two right here, crystal ball and soccer and get their fucking fantastic.

And I love the fact that they're friends. Yet she's left. He's right. And it's not bullshit. They're not frauds. You think your real name is Crystal Ball?

If I had my last name is Bodney, my daughter Crystal. It's dope. Come on, you would not make your magic crystal ball. Some fruits like I don't know why. Well, because they did everything.

Because you do that and you're going to like I didn't even notice it until now because I'm not name phobic.

I'm not name. My name is Duncan. I am.

How do you think I just I'm sensitive to names like that because if their real name is crystal ball, be a third grader named Crystal Ball. Had fun with third grade or you might be able to get away with it.

But 10th grade, you're going to get tortured by the time girls reach 15 crystal balls.

Yeah, it's like a never ending know anyway. What to me it's like the the propaganda, it's propaganda.

And the reality of it is like I'm trying to figure out what do we all have in common.

It sounds like a cheesy thing. And what we all have in common is we want to be happy. You know, when I talk to my my my liberal friends, they want to be happy. When I talk to my conservative friends, they want to be happy. And then you add to it. Now, this is where it gets weird. A lot of people want to be a hero. And why wouldn't you? A lot of people want to help other people.

They have a service mentality. They would they want to die for something good. A lot of people really do want to help. And then that's to me where the problems start is because that's being subverted. And the way it's being subverted is, you know what sucks, man, when you're around somebody who's telling you how you feel.

Have you ever had that happen to be around someone? They're like, why are you unhappy today? And you're not unhappy. But if you're not careful, you'll be like, maybe I'm unhappy.

And then you then you become the unhappy thing and they've, like, sucked you in a thing you're not. Yeah. And so for me, this is the danger of the news is they kind of tell us how we are, how we feel. They first of all, this ridiculous red blue bullshit, it's like stop. I mean, every single person I've ever met would I don't think I've ever met anybody who wouldn't try to help someone who is drowning.

I think most people I meet are like that. And I think that transcends politics. But somehow they've got us thinking we're all different and separate. And then on top of the thing that really bothers me and annoys me, obviously, man, I'm no fuckin Trump fan. That guy is a lunatic and he's driving people crazy.

But what bothers me is it's like, you know, for he's driving people nuts and it's just the way he said it.

And what bothers me is that the response from, like really intelligent people who consider themselves liberals is they're shaming these people, they're shaming them.

They're saying, oh, they're idiots, they're rednecks, they're dumb, they're peasants, stupid peasants.

How could you like him? It's like how they liked this guy because they thought that he was going to help their families. They were fucking they were not doing great economically. He they bought into a thing and they invested themselves in it.

And if they are starting to like it's dawning on them that they succumb to another American tradition, which is the con artist is American immigration. It's American to be a con artist and it's American to get sucked in by what happens to the best of us. It's happened to me at a Grateful Dead concert. We wanted to buy a hundred hits, a fucking acid. This son of a bitch got us a sheet of acid, convinced us to try to sell it, to make more money, to get more acid.

We left there with one mushroom stem on the way back to Hendersonville. I've been conned. I know what it's like. It's a very American thing. But it's like. So there was no acid at all.

Dude, he's no, we got we took our money to buy acid and then he's like, we could sell this acid and buy more acid.

And then, you know, we're like, yeah, let's do it. And then he sold the acid, I guess, and then we were going to buy more. The point is, like, you start a business. Well, my friend almost gave him his fucking car.

Like, this is a very charismatic hippie. He was like looked exactly the way you'd expect him. A fucking hippie bandana, big hippie beer.

Some people are good at that. And it's weird you do weird things like they talk a little too close to you. They make you uncomfortable. Yeah.

They use what's neurolinguistic programming. They like they like they just get you and they know how to talk.

You know, when I used to work at Newport Creamery, so I'd worked the register sometimes and we had lessons on how to deal with flim flam artists, that's what they call them, flimflam artists.

So they would teach you. So we had to sit there and be taught like how someone will fuck you up, like, so something would cost three bucks and they'll give you a twenty and they'll say, hey, can you give me a ten and a five and then the rest and quarters.

And you like what. Yeah, how much is that. And then before you know it, he's saying something else and talking over you and you think you owe him forty dollars. Yeah. Like you're giving him more money. Like I gave you a fifty. So you give me the twenty. The twenty and then what is it. It was three bucks so you owe me forty seven. So like before you know it you're giving money away and you don't understand what's happening.

Right. Especially when you're a kid. I was like I think I was sixteen and there was a monkey, basically a monkey.

Right. And you know, these people travel all over the place and they do this to folks. They just trick them. They pickpocket up like.

Watching David Blaine do card tricks, OK, from as close as you are to me, I don't get it. I don't know what he's doing. He could get me every time. He's just going to trick me every time he's so good at it. Yeah. And there's guys that are I don't know if they're at that level, but there's guys at a level that you or I can't perceive and they'll steal your watch. Yeah. There's guys who can get your watch off.

Yeah. Like they can get your watch off. I don't know how they do it, but it's a normal thing. So no one thing the guys know how to get your watch off fucking guys. I mean how many videos on YouTube. There's awesome videos of like children doing this to people you could see, like kids like get trained to do this. It's like they it's hacking our operating system.

Essentially, he stuffed a card into my friend Jeff's watchband and Jeff didn't even know it was in there. He's like, look, it's there. And he's like, what if he looks at his watch me like, pull it out.

And it's the car he was looking for, folded up, tucked into his watch. Ben, you're like, what did what did you just do?

So if that guy's a thief, if he was like some. Oh, this someone stealing something.

Yeah. There's a whole genre of you kids here.

Oh, boy. Look at that. Wow. Little tiny kids. Yeah. They're trained. They're trained to practice.

Yeah. They practice to do it. I mean this is just a look. We see this on the human realm and we're like, oh my God, they're children. You see a coral reef and a little fish come and take food from another fish. It's like just totally normal. I mean, it's not even this is just part of being in a hive.

You know, I just feel the guys watch as though it just happened to back that up. That was crazy work. Watch. This guy bumps into this guy.

He takes his watch. Watch this. Is that what he did? No, no, the guy still had a watch. What did he steal? I don't know. You'll never know. I'm I'm too high for this.

I'm too high for this. But I've never seen anybody take someone's watch off. But I know it's a real thing. White guys can actually take your watch off. Yeah, I mean, like one with a strap.

Well, they do the buckle. It's annoying for you to do. Yeah. Dude, I like to me, this is a natural part of the environment we're in. How many things camouflage themselves as other things take energy out of the system using the camouflage? It's completely fucking normal nature. Nature. It's so you get this Trump and you get people who fell for it. And now those people are deeply invested in that like magic trick, which he did.

And by the way, this is another thing. It's like, look, you don't have to like somebody like I don't like Charles Manson. You. Yeah, but man, I do recognize, like, how fucking entertaining he is, you know what I mean? Like, that's a very entertaining cult leader. Similarly with Trump, not a fan, the moment he said you implied you should shoot looters, all that look, we can go on and on with a.

. But I'm not I'm not talking about that. I'm saying the problem is that that our tactic as Americans is not supposed to be. We listen to the state and get our cues about how to be good. People from the state are as Americans.

What we do is we have like basic fundamental ideas that are really fucking beautiful, one of them being that we, like, believe that people have a right to be free and seek their own personal happiness.

That's beautiful, man, that we shouldn't have the state telling us different versions of what that is.

We we have to be intelligent and autonomous enough to do that for ourselves and then from that, like, really be a United States. And like what's happening now is these motherfuckers are not unifying us. This is supposed to be the United States of America. That's what it's supposed to be.

So if you're in a government official here and you're doing a thing that's making it all divided and fucked up and you're telling lies and you're shaming people for telling the truth, it doesn't matter if you're a Republican or a Democrat, whatever you are, as far as I'm concerned, anti-American, which is like man Americans and fuck anybody gets mad at me for saying this.

Americans are beautiful people. We both tour. We get to meet people all over the fucking place and talk to them. And they're always generally wonderful.

Yeah, some of them will take your fucking watch, you know, but still still, you know, in general, in general that you you encounter when things were going well.

See, this is the thing that shifts. Everything is covert.

The reason why everybody's ramped up. I mean, it's no small feat. It's not just about getting sick. It's about everybody being scared that they're going to lose loved ones or they're going to die. Are they going to lose lung function? You can't work. So you're worried about your income. There's so many people whose businesses are eroding right before the eyes, their eyes. I mean, imagine if you owned commercial real estate now, Jesus Christ, and you start thinking of the prospect of leasing a building that you invested all your money in and out.

To some folks, they're not going to have offices like that anymore. People are going to do shit from home. There's a lot of people that are actually more productive working from home. I know it's a fucked up time. So everybody's on eight. Everybody's walking around on hats trying to keep it together. That's right.

And so a guy like Trump exacerbates it because he doesn't ever come out with a unity speech. Yeah, it's always like a he's always the strong boss. You're fired on the man. Yeah. I mean, this is the message and it works with a lot of people. It's a good look. It's it's like comedy or music. Not not everything works on everybody, but there's a lot of people that vibe with his fucking real cartoonish version of being the boss.

Right.

But it's not to bring everybody together thing. And this is what we need. We need the guy in the movie that stands on top of the hill, the guy that says we have more in similarity than we do, that we disagree with a man.

We're together, we're friends.

Most people, most of our issues, we could work out amicably. We can talk most of our issues, the vast majority.

And we need to not just dwell on those, but embrace those like embrace all the things we like. We want safe schools for our kids. We want safe streets.

We want a fucking bridge maintenance so the bridges don't collapse. We want everybody to be OK. Yeah, we want no crime. You want we don't want unjust prison. We don't want people being unjustly accused and then sentenced to life in jail to the people to work forever to get them. We don't want any of that. We don't need prosecutors that hide evidence that shows that a person was innocent. That's real today in twenty twenty. Yeah. They don't even get in trouble for it.

Yeah. Man, it's right. It's true. And I think that the only.

Maybe this is naive. I think we got to get over our addiction to the person on the Hill. We've got to get over our addiction to the idea that the way we govern is the only way to govern.

That's it. And that's why when I see that. What was it called again? Ajaz. Mm hmm.

You know, again, like you said to me, it's not to me. What I'm seeing there is, at the very least, a radical experiment and a potential.

Now, it's a temper tantrum by some 20 year old kids who hate capitalism.

How old were the founding fathers? And a good question. But, you know, it didn't have YouTube and I think they would have formed a much better opinion. Well, that's the other part of it. Like so I keep thinking about and again, man, this is where my case is going to start falling apart. But that's OK.

Adaminaby case falls apart. The for me it's I keep thinking like, OK, so what are they telling us now. They're saying, well either you're a socialist or capital is they're a communist. Tell me what kind of is diam or what ism I'm into. And I keep thinking like man can't there.

Is that possible with all the technology we have that there's a new ism that no one doesn't have the first part of the world attached to it?

Good point.

So it's like and so at the very least, if you meet someone who's like and passionate in a real way, not in a bullshit way, by the way, man, because, like, there's a big difference between, like you, you know, right away when you run into somebody who's trying to tell you how to be, it's horrible.

It's a pretty even even if it's in a light way, it's such a it's so drones.

I'm like, oh, well, some people want you sick, some people want you destabilized. And like Balsom want one thing's for sure, people don't want you to know you are because if you know you are, they can't tell you who you are. But, but you know if you run into someone who's legitimately you are utopian here we go. Get ready to lose fucking viewers right now baby p this is where people a stop on Spotify go on to like listen to like my favorite murder or whatever.

But I was it Burning Man and stop, stop, stop, stop, stop.

Hey man, I am sure Burning Man is like everything else in the world. There's a lot of profound conversations and few of them that want to make you just bury your head in the sand. Definitely.

And but one, this guy came up to you getting these great chats and this guy came up to me, where does Yappin? And he said, Do you think world peace is possible? He wasn't being a missionary or just asking just asking the real question.

But it's so cliche that it seems like a joke question that a moron would ask you. Yeah, because he is funny. Yeah. The what would you want more than that? World equality, world financial equality. World peace is like four or five things you would ever say. Like, look, that might cure up a lot of shit. Yeah, that's right.

And but to ask it is so cliche like a burning man you got. Well that's a that's world peace. Well, you know, and that's the other thing. If like let's say you're at the Venice boardwalk and some son of a bitch dressed like Uncle Sam comes and asks you that you're going to go the other direction, like, fuck you. Like you're just going to leave. Maybe if you get out of Nicaragua, man. Yeah, yeah.

But but he was actually somebody he's really into Buckminster Fuller. And I think that was something Buckminster Fuller put out there, which is like this. This question is very important book. And you should you should ask yourself, this is an individual, because if you think world peace is possible, right. Even if you acknowledge that maybe right now it's not possible, but if you can invent in your mind some technology, some or even if you can invent in your mind, like an X, like an algebra for a thing you don't have the space for yet.

But it could be right. If there's any sense in you at all that world peace is possible, then from that point forward you should be part of whatever it is that's going to make us have that great utopian ideal that transcends American borders.

And because that's the other problem is the American dream thing. It's confi. It's not the American dream. It's the human dream. The human dream is the intuition we all have that there's a way for us to be on the planet together that doesn't involve blowing each other up. Right. And that's I think it's possible. I think it's possible. I just don't know how it would be, how to get there necessarily.

But I think it's possible. And one thing's for sure, whenever you get a Trump or any fucking pundit blowing out divisive shit into people's brains, they are not. If there's like a scale one to world peace, one side's chaos, they're dropping. They're dropping. There's they're Pebble's on the chaos part of the scale.

And it's like, why do you think they're doing that?

Because, man, let me tell you, there's a lot of money to be made in fucking chaos, man. There's a lot of money. I mean, isn't that what an engine is? An engine is kind of like controlled explosion.

Do you remember when Trump talked openly once about the military industrial complex?

Yeah. And they said they want to go to war. Yeah. And you're like, what?

The problem is, he says so many other things that are ridiculous right now.

If only you just said that. If only he just said that. The problem with him saying that is you can go. Yeah, yeah. But he also called this chick. You fucked a horse face. Well, you know, you and you go, oh, yes, that's nice.

He he had he had a he had a thing there like a moment, like an Eisenhower moment, not quite as eloquent, but when Eisenhower was on television, he warned people about the military industrial complex as he was leaving office. That's to this day, like one of the most profound speeches I've ever seen because, yeah, it gives me a chill because I think, well, this is black and white.

From how many fucking years ago if this shit was going on, then it's I could stop going on. Didn't stop.

We see one of the reasons why we're in such a fucked up space politically is because this is the first time where politics have been really exposed to the general public by the Internet. Like you have a different access to politics you never had before. You have real time things breaking. You find out like if someone like Gavin Newsom said he was going to take a pay cut, he didn't. Fox News prince as it goes and you get all these stories like, oh, would you have known that before?

Cell phones, the Internet, you've never known that he didn't do that. You would have to be a person who's really into politics. Yeah, and there's not that many of them. Most people are busy. So now politics relies on scandals and scandals. Are Weasel's people through that.

So the thing about scandals is not everybody's a good person. All right? And if you if you do a lot of fucked up shit, but you own it the way Trump did, people didn't count on the asshole vote because there's a lot of assholes out there.

And finally they had a king like this is a king for Magga. They wear the fucking sunglasses and they talk shit to Ted Cruz at rallies. Those guys finally had a king. And that's like we didn't there's no king on the other side. There was no king, the compassionate, intelligent king who actually made sense. Well, that's the that's what we don't have. They got so depressing. You're very astute. Observation is in the sense that the idea was we weren't going to have a fucking monarchy here.

Yeah, that was the point.

And now we elect a monarchy. Yeah, yeah. That's the whole point, man.

And it's like and again, it's like, look, if like if you start playing the game that you're the smart person in the room and that is people disagree with you. They must be dumb. If people have different ideas than you, they must be stupid. And then you start shaming them.

What can you all you're doing is creating this like you're going to create a reaction to that. And the reaction is going to be a celebration of every single thing you're with, your great vast elite intelligence deriding, you know.

And so I think, you know, that's the problem is it's like I just there's nothing worse than when, like, people who are legitimately smart have read a bunch of fucking books, have got Masters degrees, have not developed enough compassion to understand that just about every single person on the planet wants to be happy, wants to have a full stomach, doesn't want to hurt anybody, and would run into a building on fire to save somebody. Most everybody, I would say I would say at least 90 percent.

A large percentage. A large percentage. And these motherfuckers are shaming them and telling them they're idiots or they're stupid or this and that. It's like, fuck you, man. You don't know what these people came up through. You don't know these people were born in there like houses filled with fucking methamphetamine smoke whose parents were like, you know, absolutely fucking insane. And they still managed to get out and get a job and have a fucking life and pay taxes.

And now your fucking ass is going to tell these people who didn't have the fucking trust fund that you had that got you into the fucking Ivy League university, that they're fucking idiots.

Shut the fuck up. Stop. They're not. And then I'm shaming those people. That's the problem. The idea is like not shaming them.

You're just honestly illuminating their their current situation.

Let's just don't think it's shaping them. Well, yeah, it's kind of like let go with a whole, like, snooty thing. It's time also on the other side, it's time to let go of like every single one of these people must be like burning candles to Molik in their backyard thing to like. Let's let go of all those stories for a second.

I'm not saying there aren't people burning candles, Malik. I never really are.

I've never met the Bohemian Grove video. Is that Malik? Yes, that's Malti. Oh, God. When Alex Jones.

Isn't it just an Jon Ronson? No, it's Molik there we're talking about is it Molik is how you pronounce Algar.

According to Alex, Jon Ronson and Alex Jones, they snuck into Bohemian Grove. This was what everybody was saying. It was all bullshit. And I say this many times and I'll say it's more like you got a friend, Alex Jones.

He's he's made some mistakes and some big ones, but he's also actually exposed some real shit and he owns up to the mistakes he's made. They're not good. He doesn't think they're good. There's a thing about finding conspiracies everywhere that's not good for your brain, I really believe this.

I think that if you go looking for those things and that's all you look for and you look for them all the time, you can get real paranoid and real crazy. And then there's also a bunch of people that are trying to stop you from doing that because you do expose some crazy shit. You know, he was talking about Epstein a long time ago. I have a long time ago. He was saying there was a fucking island and they take all these rich politicians and some celebrities and they bang these kids.

And I was like, come on. He was telling me this a long time ago. So he's also the one who told me about Bohemian Grove. I actually watched it. That's I think this tape was actually made before I met him. So he went and snuck in to this place where, like former presidents go, there's a photograph of it's Ronald Reagan with Herbert Walker Bush and a couple other people all standing around. And it's like these are the people that used to hang out at this place and they would put on robes and they would worship an hour owl God, and they would burn in effigy and their plane.

And Alec snuck in and made video footage of this shit. And then no one's denying that it's real. This is really did happen. So they're in with these bankers and former presidents and they're dressed like druids.

And some guy brings over something that it's an effigy that's supposed to be a body, a wrapped up effigy. It's also a bunch of sticks in a blanket. But it's like shaped like a body. Yeah. And they drop it on the fire and they're all worshipping an owl.

God, why is that bad? Imagine if you saw those if that's what your business is, just finding those things. How crazy you think you get. First of all, wait. Then you add in vodka and head wounds. Wait, wait, wait, hold out. Wait. Go to the fuckin headwinds part.

What's out, Jones? OK, I got a lot of vodka and you had a blood. God damn it, man.

When I was in liberal arts school, man, there's this great teacher who changed my life, Sam Scovel, and he's one of the things he taught was so beautiful. He still teaches.

There are other things he taught was figure out a way to take in all the information and then filter out the shit that's not real and keep the real stuff.

And like, you know, Alex Jones is like, let's yeah, some of the stuff is take what's really out there. There's a good chunk of it that's real. Like I remember he was telling me the government using chemicals to turn frogs gay. I was like, what?

What are you talking about? He was yes, he was. Pesticides are turning frogs gay. And I'm like, that can't be real. No, there really.

Is that true? Yes. There's pesticides that change frogs. Genders. What. Yes. Yes. But some pesticide fucks with frogs genders.

That sucks, maybe it doesn't I mean, depends on the family is awesome for the friends to give a fuck because they've never been taught homophobia. Why would they care who they fuck?

But yeah, but there's a real thing that you find that it's it's a pesticide that has some sort of an effect, an unintended effect on frogs genders do.

That's another thing that people don't talk about, pesticides that have been used in like golf courses and like there's people who live around those.

That's a chemical dump. Yeah, golf courses are pesticide. Atrazine can turn male frogs into females.

So this is a good pesticide. Berkely changes the gender or should I say the sex? Is it the same thing with sex and gender?

Hey, I'm not getting sucked into that fucking black hole. Rogard You can keep that shit to yourself, but, hey, I'll get sucked into another black hole. That crazy, though? Well, yes.

Before we get into that stuff, I want to say this real quick, OK?

Is that camera on my friends at the Bohemian Grove future France, I should say. I just want you to know I don't know much about you. I know Alex Jones, you know, probably on vodka drinks.

I don't think he was then. I think he was sober. He started drinking. After all, he's all fucked up.

Sorry. Sorry. You had an infiltrator. Look, I went to a summer camp. We had bonfires. We wore robes.

I mean, not like maybe what you do.

I just want to say, hey, come on, invite me, please. I won't tell anybody anything. I've heard you guys are pretty awesome. Actually, what I've heard is the idea was to get a bunch of hardcore neo cons together and then make some artisan in the hopes that, like having like brushing shoulders with artists would in some way, shape or form loosen some people up a little bit. And I've also heard you have a tram that connects campsites there to other campsites, meaning you just get in the tram and suddenly you're hanging out with Dick Cheney.

Listen, I won't tell anybody I got a podcast I want you to tell Joe, let me and I worship Molik. I want wear Mark if it means hurting people, but I don't understand why people are upset about fucking by the way I take that, you fucking idiot. Why is what's wrong with me? Nothing.

This is the thing. So excited. This is the thing that I get confused about here, OK?

It's like in our country, we've got people who are Christian. Yes. And that's a beautiful thing. And I do love Jesus. I was reading the Book of Mark today regarding the parable of the Sower.

But that being said, I don't think it's fair necessarily to tell people they can't worship an owl or burn an effigy in front of an owl and some kind of symbolic, magical ritual that represents the disintegration of your negative energy or whatever it may be, I really don't know.

But that you know, to me, that's the other problem that's happening right now is like superstition is running rampant. I'm friends with lots and witches. I know a few Satanists.

I know a few people are into the occult and I don't know a single one of them that would tolerate child abuse. I don't know a single one that wouldn't kill somebody.

Some of them would kill people if they thought they were hurting kids, not in make it so that nobody found the body. Some of the Satanists I know they would kill they would kill someone probably. I don't know for sure. I'm not trying to throw any Satanists under the bus. But I'm just saying, like, this idea that we can't have alternate alternate pagan religions in our country. Right. Without immediately being associated with human sacrifice or child abuse, I think that goes against the American spirit.

It's like, look, because people don't want to subscribe to your particular, like, very popular global religion doesn't necessarily implicate them in, like, something that is truly a horror, which is human trafficking. So to me, this is the problem is like, man, we got to be a little bit more nuanced in our apprehend or in our conceptualization of these people. Again, I don't know what's going on in the fucking Bohemian Grove, but from what I've heard, it's basically a summer camp for billionaires where they try to get artists in there to, like, loosen them up a little bit.

That's what I've heard. I could be wrong. Who told you this? This I honestly can't fucking say.

Hmm. Hmm. Interesting. Look, man, I don't know. And I know. I know.

If you see the video, Bohemian Grove, have you seen it?

The ritual in front of the guy. I've seen it. Yeah. Dude, go come with me to Burning Man and you will see that. Oh for sure.

Every fifty feet. Look, I don't think it's that big of a deal. I really don't know if it involves hurting kids.

It's a big deal. And if these motherfuckers are doing anything that involves human sacrifice, hurting human beings in, in, in, in any application of that, of course, then it's the worst thing on Earth. And I'm so sorry that I said anything about it, but I don't think that's what this is.

I mean, obviously, what we're seeing is not that we don't know what else happens, but what you're seeing is them burning sticks in front of this our God. And it's like this crazy, crazy speech they're given while it's going on.

It's it's really weird. Hey, can we hear some of it?

The speech?

I don't know where the speech is.

In the video, I found another video where this, like, stabilized the footage of oh, it's like but I mean, before one before this, nobody really believed that.

Listen to me. They don't care. And all about exactly what I know. A cargo plane once again this summer. Fine. And now they're the lighting, the effigy on fire and everybody's cheering. It looks fine, Stanley Kubrick had this quote once to Nicole Kidman, I think it was there working on Eyes Wide Shut, see if you can find what she said about the elites. That he that he had said, I know I saved it, I can find it if I have a chance to look at my laptop, but it was something about him, you know, talking about the powers that run the world and that they all have something on each other and that's how they all can stay together.

They'll compromise each other. That's what Skull and Bones is about. That's all that stuff is about. So he had a much more concise quote on that. But when you see something like that, you go, well, maybe it's like fun that they do it, that nobody knows they do it.

You know, I'm saying, yeah, like maybe it's like one of those rituals where you get together. Your dad thinks it's hilarious and you both put your hoods on. You go out there and you burn the owl or you burn the sticks in front of the owl.

And what's fun is that you're not supposed to be doing it. And it's a secret, but nothing really is happening. That's also on the table. Yeah, that's possible. But it it's fuckin weird.

Man, that was weird. I imagine if there was no Catholic Church.

Imagine if you are a billionaire. That's what you're doing with your weekend. But imagine there's no Catholic Church. And there was one video of a mass. Right. We would be like, what the fuck? Right.

That's fucked up.

Imagine any religious ceremony if there was only one version of it, because I'm not trying to reduce it to summer camp fun or even like fraternity games.

There's a who knows what it is, right? We just we just know you can't know what it is.

Yeah. They have to tell us, but we just see something crazy. But it's not evil. I mean, what is it?

Well, it's it for me. It's a question mark. I don't really know. I know that my dress weird my my tendency whenever I have a question mark, is to assign malevolence to it just out of a basic kind of weakness of my own bias, like. Right. If I don't know what a thing is like, you know, when you're waiting for the doctor to call regarding some scan they just did on you, you know, if you if you have the slightest fear of death or any kind of bias in you, then that space in between when you when you maybe were overlooked in this, maybe it's like their version of Renaissance Fair.

And people just want to escape reality and pretend that they live with Molik, the owl, God, and throw a fucking hood over your head. Yes, please. And peace be with you.

Yeah. I mean, it could be some kind of, like, pagan celebration. Right.

You know, and if you look back at, like, the history of paganism or hedonism or Terence McKenna, that's such a great job talking about that. Oh, you city and mysteries. And then, you know, all these, like, things that aren't really quite as accessible is the main main religions of the world.

All the religions of the world, they have this beautiful quality in them depending on the religion.

And generally, one of the qualities is so beautiful is a mechanism of self forgiveness and a mechanism of purification that a general assessment of the human condition is being somewhat depraved. How many like the puking in ayahuasca? You're purging yourself from your darkness, the confession booth in Catholicism, maybe you could say in Gnosticism like true noticer and Buddhism like connecting with actual reality versus your overlays.

That reality here, you know, it goes on and on.

This is all within each one is this idea of like there is a way for us to ritualistically create if you want to be a pure scientific materialist, a beautiful placebo effect that gets you to drop some of your neurotic qualities or the very least reset your intention to make the world a better place and anything, whatever, that I don't care what the fuck it is, whatever it may be, if that's what what it's all about is a recognition like, man, you beat yourself up every day.

You're so hard on yourself, you beat yourself up for all the shit you did in the past. And we live in a world right now where there's not much tolerance, there's not much forgiveness, and anything that allows a kind of like steam valve from which all that shit can get released. So from this day forward, you're born again, you're brand new. I don't care if it's in our man go.

If you think that's crazy, look at like Main Street Disneyland any night. You've had some crazy shit to watch do and some people's entire lives. I'm not being like change from, like, having a great night anywhere.

So, you know, to me it's like ritual is not scary to me. What's scary to me, though, is anything that objectifies humans, enslaves humans, hurts. And so, yeah, human sacrifice, any of that stuff. And if that's what's really happening there, I truly don't know, then I completely apologize for any Sensex.

It's just sticks. The question is, was it always just sticks?

Did it used to be people that they used to sacrifice a person to? They stop doing it at one point in time.

One widely cited Nicole Kidman interview was made up by the fake news site News Punch.

You sons of bitches. Got it. They got me. They got you.

But again, I say what the quote is. Yeah, this is the quote.

He said that Hollywood is run by pedophiles or something. I read a page where it was put up. God damn. They got me on that.

Glad I asked you. Hey, you want to see something real creepy, Jamie? DMAs. You to look something up, look up the that there's a video of a van that was actually used for human trafficking, I saw on that. That shit is killing. Terrifying, chilling. And it's like to me, it's like, man, if we're going to be it.

Is there anybody who is at the helm of the ship that's fighting those motherfuckers right now deserves medals.

And I hope that they never stop what they're doing. I just want them to be very precise in their attacks, that's all. Don't dilute your position by getting caught up in something. And again, I am not I'm already going to get attacked for this saying like Douga was for the war. But I don't I don't.

I'm a Buddhist and I go to Ramdas Retreats and Burning Man, but and if they invited me to the Bohemian Grove, I go and if I went there and I saw that was going to say Stanley Kubrick to keep a secret, we tend to.

Are you saying you would go to the grave with me? Yes, I mean, anybody but, you know, if you and I were invited there and we saw anything happening, that was anything to do with like what people would think it would be a trap and they would be setting us up.

They would put on like some sort of fake thing to make us look like fools. So we talk about it on our podcast.

Do you know, man, if we ever do a movie together, that's the movie like it should be all of your friends going to get invited that we can back to? Right.

I could become friends with some guy who is like a banker who really likes comedy. Yeah, right.

And then this guy tells you he gets drunk one night like I know the Illuminati. They're real. The Bilderberg Group. It's real. Like what? Yemen. Jekyll Island.

So they made the federal and it's not even from America, man. And like what? What? And then this guy starts on unraveling the tale of America.

Can I tell you something crazy? Federal Reserve. Yeah. People in my family used to own parts of Jekyll Island.

OK, tell the story of Jack alone, because that's what I'm talking about. If people don't know it. Well, here's the problem. I don't know the story.

Like, I remember hearing something like two paragraphs I may have memorized.

I remember hearing people in my family had some claim on land there and that they sold it. And since then, I was just kind of resentful because it's like they sold it for nothing. And like if they'd held on to it, like, you know, I would be at the fucking Bohemian Grove.

And so Jekyll Island supposed to be the place where they invented the Federal Reserve.

Right. I know there's a great hotel owner.

Jamie, what does it say? Listen, this old disclaimer I got rid of look, we're all three of us are morons. Yes.

This is not that's one thing that drives me crazy. There's one of the things about silencing people that are crazy online. I can tell when someone's crazy and part of someone being crazy, as you see these crazy people and you go, oh, I think they might be crazy. And then you look in you and you go, you had none. None of what they're saying makes sense. They actually are crazy. But damn, that's pretty close.

Yeah.

Dude, you got to be the thing about people saying things that other people disagree with when they want to silence those people is you don't think that other people are smart as you you're thinking that's going to work on other people. Someone saying the earth is flat and there's lizard people that control the sunrise. If that was you, you'd go, OK, you know what I'm saying?

Yeah, it wouldn't work. Yeah. So why not let someone say it so someone says it doesn't work on you. Yeah. Well what are you worried about. You're worried it's going to work on somebody else. Yes, that's what I'm worried about. You worry it's going to and that's the weird thing about covid because it's the one thing where you're not allowed to do that anymore, because if you do anything that goes against the government guidelines, anything that goes against what the World Health Organization thinks you should do or CDC thinks you should do, you get kicked off of YouTube, you get silenced, everybody gets removed.

Whether you're right or wrong, it's the one thing where you can't talk crazy. You can talk crazy about the earth being hollow. You could talk about beings that are made out of light, that fly in and out of our consciousness, that's responsible for all of our ideas. Yes. And you could talk about how there's an application that's coming in twenty, twenty three. It's right now being vetted by NASA to make sure that we can use it so we can communicate with the aliens.

You can have all these whacko videos, you making shit up and no one cares. But if you say that masks don't help and what we need to do is get healthier, they'll remove you from YouTube.

Well, that's the fire in a crowded theater thing. You can't yell fire in a crowded theater.

So so like the like, look, the problem with it is to me is I like have like gone through every single stage of grief over because bad analogy, maybe a better analogy is you can open up businesses as long as you do it carefully.

I used to love you too man. I used to love I still love it.

What I loved about it in the old days I still love, I still go on every day. But what I loved about the old days is what you're saying. No one's putting a cork in the champagne bottle. It was wild. It was it was a museum of madness you had. And what was even better is the algorithm was working in your favor. So it's like punching hollow earth.

Yes. That's going to take you all the way to like some crazy deep shit. And never once in all of my explorations and the early days of YouTube was I like this could be real.

It was more like, wow, look at all the different versions of reality that people are processing. And and it was a joy.

But I think what happened probably is like people realize, like God, like what we've got, like you talk about this stuff is bad, the nightmare when it will happen, when primates figure out how to, like, use friction to make fire, you talk about it. Yes. And that's a nightmare for the planet. Like you think that fucking shit's bad. Now, wait till the chimps figure out guns.

Yeah, just fire. Just fire to make their own fire.

Think of, like, the beginning when, like, the proto hominid shift into, like, a good point, you know, this is trouble imagining.

Good point.

Think of how many people died in the beginning of, like, discovering fire.

Oh my God. How many experiments were done with fire? How many things were just set on fire? How many people just burnt?

How can eat it? I bet you could eat it. Let me eat it. I'll get its energy in my body. Holy fuck it melted his face off, you know.

So similarly, like with the Internet, we have this we have this new fire. And like people who are like in the conduits of the fire are I think they're having this really rotten come to Jesus moment where they're like because I think a lot of these, especially you look in the Silicon Valley, these people are freaks.

The early date, like the people making technology, they're nuts. I see you that Steve Jobs thing with him in a commune or whatever. These people are fucking crazy.

But I think they're recognizing that like it.

It's like, OK, the Internet is the new fire. Yeah.

And so and they're starting to understand that, like, because of them, because of their intentional manipulative coding, because of their deep study of B.F. Skinner and behaviorism, they've produced this hyper seductive semi senti and information dispersal device that is driving people who don't have the immune system to data that you're supposed to naturally get from school crazy.

That's what's happening.

And so people are going nuts because it's like, well, I had that with the addictive quality of technology, those two things together, the addictive quality of just looking at like your phone and getting information off your phone and then added to all the stuff that you're saying, yeah, man.

And it's a crazy combination.

And I think Google and YouTube and as much as like, you know, and I do think censorships, I would hate to be in anybody's position there because on one hand you're looking at.

A very liberal, very beautiful idea, which is like everyone should be allowed to say whatever they want to say, and then it's meeting like, well, but what about these hyper charismatic, seductive people who like Hitler and you know what I mean?

Like, so now you run into this terrible place of like and also we know that there's people who don't quite have the ability to discern what's real and what's not. But we this is my beef.

We allow some of that because we allow evangelist's. I heard Robert Tilden on one of his shows.

Yeah, he goes every time you write a check to me, Satan gets a black eye I could lose in my act for a while. I was like, where's my checkbook?

You say, you son of a bitch, dude, it's a badge.

And you could steal money that way. It's I look, man, I don't you know, I'm saying.

Yeah, I do know exactly what you're saying. And it's like this type of con artistry. I also cigarettes, you know, it's like this type of con artistry generally. It seems like there's some kind of grandfather clause on specific styles of of of thievery and murder.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Because, like, it's like they know they're killing people.

Imagine if you had bubblegum that killed a half a million people a year, just like bubble gum. But it just people are just dying.

Stop selling it. Fuck you do what you do when you're single.

People have a right to chew their bubble gum like bubbles. Yeah, that's right. If that's all it was, it's like you chewing bubbles makes you happy and everybody's dying of cancer. And this company is making five hundred billion dollars a year or something like how much they make us cigarettes. Yeah, how much. Let's, let's guess, let's guess what, how much. What do you think the end by the way, I want to say before this is a box of cigars, OK, Mike Binder gave me that and he gave me that one over there.

Another box of cigars. I'm not anti tobacco in any way, shape or form. I'm a pro free choice person. You absolutely should be able to smoke cigarettes. And I think he absolutely should be able to sell them because I don't want to roll my own. And if I want a cigarette as a grown fucking man, you can I want to be able to have a cigarette.

But cigarettes do kill a half a million people in this country every year. Yeah.

Or they're going to die anyway, right. Cigarettes kill them early or they die directly because of diseases that you can get from smoking cigarettes and their kids get sick, do the worst man.

Kids that live in Greg Fitzsimmons, he has lung problems to this day because his parents chain smoked and they lived in Massachusetts.

Told my mom did, but she quit when I was really young.

Did you ever like sex or are you in the car with her when she smoked? I must have been with a windows up.

I well, we lived in New Jersey so cold in the winter, I'm sure it was. I don't think she smoked in the car with the kids, though. Do do you mind if I have a little more than I can.

Thank you. Drink it all. So good bye. I, I remember. No, Fletcher, North Carolina medal winner. You'd go down and wait for the bus, my friend Jimmy Fink, I think it's Jimmy Fink. His mom would like let us get in her car to wait for the bus is wonderful. Very sweet. But also, I think and I'm sorry, Jimmy, if you're out there, I know we haven't talked in a long time.

I still love you, though. But like and I'm sorry if it's not you.

And I'm getting confused here, but the I just remember she smoked and like, there was smoke in the car my dad smoked. I would ride in the car with him on trips and he would smoke and you'd breathe in the smoke and like so so to me, like where and again, like this is always the problem, which is like clearly we need regulate.

There has to be some regulatory principle in the world. If there are people who steal watches their mean, that means there's going to be groups of people get together and talk about better ways to steal watches. If there's groups of people who get together, talk about better ways to steal watches, and then we create a way for them to form a thing called like a corporation, you know what I mean?

You need to regulate that. That's why we need regulation.

Yeah. So but then the problem is, is like who does the regulating and what what's the incentive for you to regulate?

Is there a financial incentive? And what regulators get paid an exorbitant amount of money.

Let's say you and I start a vape pen company that is a nicotine vapor squeeze thinking start pouring money into people who are against tobacco, knowing if we can make tobacco legal, but keep the vaping and legal, we're going to become the new tobacco.

But here's a thing about vape pens.

This is the real thing about V pens. Some of them are not good for you at all, the real bad for you.

And there's a connection, they're saying now between covid and kids that vape, kids that vape dying of getting serious covid. But it makes sense. I have a friend who's got a kid that sucks on one of them things all day long just just vapes constantly.

Kids vape and these kids that vape all the time, like the oils that you're taking into your lungs, that's not healthy.

The idea that it's not cigarettes. So it's healthy. No, it's there's a lot of evidence that points to some of those companies that make those oils. They don't do it in a way where, you know, there's like different kinds of oils and they have the different reactions to the heat.

And some of them are like my saying this. Right. Let's check on this. What is the problem with the different types of vapes? Because I think there was one type of oil that they use because they have to they have to somehow another mix.

The same with the marijuana ones you have to mix. Yeah. This stuff with the THC in some sort of chemical. But it's different. You can do it organically.

I know they've done it with coconut oil.

I know they've done it with like things like that. It's the same way with Harshman. I think it's like the way people make hash varies in some people. There's a healthy way to make it. Yeah. And obviously the way using the most chemicals is the cheapest. And so there's certain types of hash that you, I think are derived. And again, my friends out there look, I don't know, but it's something like butane. Someone told me this, that at a marijuana store, I can't remember what, but yeah, man, it's like this deep concern is the oil like what kind of oil?

I know there's one guy that was selling them that was MKT Oil. OK, here it is. Authorities in the Food and Drug Administration and Centers for Disease Control and Prevention still aren't sure what's causing the dangerous trend. But theories range from issues with vegetable oil and vaped used to the idea that doctors are just now taking note of a problem that's been percolating for a long time. So, OK, so that was the speculation that people were using.

Like, if you try to cook, OK, and you try to like, sear a steak and you do it with olive oil, you're going to fuck it up because olive oil, it's not like something that you really see or something with like you put olive oil and you don't want to get it that hot. Yeah, olive oil is more something that you'd like to saute with.

But other oils like avocado oil or or beef fat like that stuff is amazing because you can get it really fucking hot and it has a very, very high temperature where it turns to smoke.

Right.

So it's like healthier for you, the idea. So if you're misting this stuff into your lungs, you don't want it burnt.

Right? Right. You want something that's right there.

So I would imagine if you're using these cheap this is again, I'm a moron. I'm not a scientist, but we're doing science.

If they pan with, like, some really shitty canola oil and you getting that burnt spray inside your lungs like that could be terrible, terrible.

You got some fucking GMO corn syrup bullshit in your lungs.

Yeah. You know, the haunting thing, man. You go to a pharmacy, right? And you watch is the pharmacist dispenses the drugs. How carefully is right.

Like, they're like so careful in their administration of these pills because they know if like if for one second you give someone Xanax when they were supposed to get penicillin, you killed somebody.

Right. So you have to be very careful. But like meanwhile, look at us right now, Joe, did you do a test on that bottle of booze or these? I didn't even I honestly as embarrassing, I'm like, I don't know how to light this blunt, but then, like, you don't have smoking something called dad grass.

I don't know what's in it. I don't do any studies here.

I just think people love Steely Dan. I do I do love stelae. In fact, it's a great fucking song, you know what I'm saying?

Like the general, like in in America, in anywhere. The general sense is I'm going to eat it if you give it to me, especially if it's in a colorful box. Right. And then you're like, it must be OK. And the problem is, is like sometimes it's not OK. Look at Dalam.

I like, you know, look at like the big moments in history when it was shown, like, actually sometimes the stuff we sell is that solidified thalidomide epitomized stuff that gave kids birth defects, in fact.

Yeah. Or what was that radioactive shit they painted on watch. Oh my God, dude, we did a whole show where we talked about all the diseases that people got from Iridium. Was that what it was, Jamie? What was the radium, radium, iridium?

They were using it for all kinds of things and people's faces were rotting on. Yeah, literally. They have holes in their face.

They were painting it on watches because it would glow is cool looking. But so similarly, it's like they were using it for makeup, I think. Yeah. And here we have the Internet, here we have the fucking Internet.

Suddenly we have a hyper awada like super connect with every single person on the planet, but not just connect with every person on the planet. We have an artificial intelligence based on a neural network. I don't understand how it works, suggesting who you should connect with, you know what I mean? It's like is the Internet, the thalidomide, technological thalidomide. Are we looking at?

I think so. Is that what we are dealing with right now? And like, I think we're on a spaceship. We haven't quite figured out how to slow it down or the brakes are. How do you go left or right?

Yeah, but the spaceship is being propelled by thoughts and ideas and social media and world events and drugs and sex and politics and power and control. And it's all just hurling through space. And while while it's all happened, we haven't quite figured out where the brakes are or what's the best way to be harmonious with each other. So we're all in this constant battle for control, thinking that once we get in control, we're going to set this fucking ship straight and everybody's going to be cool.

We're going to be finally we're going to get along because your side won. But, yeah, you're still going to have half the fucking country that hates you, half the country that doesn't agree with you, half the country that has to, like, be really tolerant in order to engage you in any of your ideas and admit that you're right. Right. And this is what we're doing. And it's not real. It's not real. I don't think it's real.

I think a lot of the people that have ideas in one way, if they could just talk to people in in the realm of the area where they have disagreement, I bet they could work it out.

I think the problem is more people not talking than anything.

Joe, tell me about the spaceship ideas, because I don't think you say something like knowing you like I know you.

I wonder if you're saying that metaphorically or like if it is metaphorically, but it's also actual. We are on a spaceship whether we like it or not.

We're spinning a thousand miles an hour and we're driving through infinity at a pace that if you if it was small and it passed by, you would go, holy fuck, yeah.

What was if it was if the earth was the size of a baseball and it whipped by you in real time, the way it's moving through the universe, you'd be like far.

Yeah, that's what the earth's doing.

But the earth is huge. Yeah, it's huge. And yet it's tiny and it's surrounded by things that are enormous. Going to sun. It's a million times bigger than us, just a fireball in the sky that all life on earth depends on a very clear space between Earth and the sun. A perfect balance, perfect balance sheet.

This unstoppable heat. Just keep the water melted. Don't boil it, man.

And we're hurtling through infinity. And while we're doing that, we're trying to pick who gets to be the leader to steal your tax money. We're trying to tell you you can't go to a beauty shop. So I don't want you getting a cough. That's right. I'm trying to tell people, stay home, stay home. Trump trying to kill America.

Yep. It's the wrong approach.

Like the approach they're making. The approach they should make is should be all about positivity. You know, everybody who's voting knows who Trump is. Everybody knows about the riots. Everybody knows about everybody knows all those things.

Yeah. Talk about what you want to do. Yeah. Talk about what you want to do. Don't talk about how bad the orange guy is.

Tell me what you want to do. Don't use woak lingo. Don't you fucking do it. Don't you do it.

Tell me. Tell me. Yeah. For real. Don't bullshit me. Tell me what you can do to fix this. Right. Just that. Tell me you want to bring everybody together.

Just that everybody right wing left. We got to make concessions. We got to figure out like. Where we meet in the middle, there's much more than we agree with and we don't agree that much more, let's concentrate on that stuff and let's be nice about this other shit.

Yeah, that's right. That's it. That's. Look, it sounds like you know what you're saying. It's beautiful.

And it's one of the qualities as beautiful as simple that what I saw I got to see the Dalai Lama speak once and it's like, wow, you in person know.

No, he was it like an event. Right. But you were in the audience. Yeah, I was in the audience. So he was there. He was there with his translator. Was beautiful man.

I really like the vibe in the in the room was so sweet and like, you know, to go back to what you're talking about earlier, some people will tell you a stupid thing, like a thing on the side of a cereal box.

Like, I apologize for that. Be kinder for. Oh, I'm so sorry. But, you know, I could tell you, Joe, you know what the world needs. Love it.

It's I do like cliches, though. Sometimes sometimes they're accurate. Depends on who is coming, who the cliche is coming from, if they're sincere. So the Dalai Lama is on stage and he says you can always be kinder.

And it was like you could feel this wave rushing out of him. I mean, it was like the essence of Buddhism just rushing out. Everyone simultaneously thinking like, yeah, he's right.

And it transcends politics. It transcends geopolitics.

And that that is why it's what you're saying is so beautiful, because it's the same thing which is like, you know, like this planet.

We're so lucky to be on a planet, go on that fast and like we're so lucky to get a chance, a little peephole into time. We're not here that long.

I think this covid thing gives us an opportunity to realize how lucky we really are. I do, too.

I mean, for the people that are struggling right now financially or struggling with their health, it doesn't you know, it doesn't register with you. And I'm sorry about that. But I think for the people that aren't fucked by this, there is a moment where we get to realize, like, OK, we were taking this for granted.

We thought we had all this thing wired in. You didn't have it wired. I mean, they got rid of the Senate.

What was the pandemic? There was a pen. The White House decided like a year before Korona decided to get rid of the pandemic. What was their response?

What was your actual. No, like he got this whole pandemic based on it. They they dissolved it. Just imagine imagine if this an asteroid like what ones are coming? Forty years.

Fire, everybody, fire. Everyone fucked. We're fucked. Just fire everyone. More tests the more sick people. We have stopped the tests.

Just they did that. I know. I know. I know.

They are so. So from that what did they teach us. They taught us that we have to depend on each other right now, not the state.

Well, I think they should give people the opportunity to do what they want to do. I really say this too much. I say it it almost every show, but you can't tell people they can't work. It doesn't make any sense.

You you're not smart enough for you to say that you that the only thing that matters is whether or not these people expose themselves to the virus. At this point, I think that's ridiculous. But can I tell you something else is OK, I'm sorry. I'm sorry to cut you off, but they have to acknowledge is something else matters. They have to acknowledge that the financial problems that people are going through are almost insurmountable. They have to acknowledge that.

And that destroys a lot of people. That creates a lot of depression, creates a lot of suicide, creates a lot of drug abuse, creates a lot of turmoil and a lot of mental health issues. That's a fact. So we're we're taking away people's sovereignty.

Look, man, if you want to, that was another great American tradition.

If you want to kill yourself, well, you can do it with so many other way. You're welcome to kill yourself. BMX flipping. No stop you from doing flips your motorbike.

That was the whole point. I mean, that's like remember when everything got safe, like the whole point. There was a time when everything was like how Gonzo and the problem is you're spreading it.

Right? So it's not just you and your motorbike that you crash your motorbike into a creek.

That is that's one of the problems. There's a lot of that's a good way of looking at it, honestly. Yeah. But the bigger to me, the bigger that is a problem.

And it's fucked. The bigger problem is, OK, so you own an Applebee's or whatever. Right. And suddenly the government's like, OK, everyone can go back to work, but no one solved the problem. You, the owner of the Applebee's, caused the general manager like, hey, dude, get the waiters waitstaff back or open it up.

You're not going to be there.

You're going to have the general manager come in and you're going to have to wait staff come in. Now, the wait staff have been living off of unemployment benefits supplied by the federal government that sometimes are more than like what they were making at the place. That's not a bad thing. But all of a sudden, what happened is prior to a true reduction of this pandemic that can kill you, most of the time it doesn't.

But you might be the one who steps in the landmine. All of a sudden they just decided, well, we got the economy needs to work. So now your unemployment benefits get cut off and you have to go back to work. But they haven't solved the problem. So you become the person who has to bear the weight of the failed approach to the disease, and that's why it's fucked up. Yes, you're right, man. My friend runs a new California barbershop in Echo Park.

Bryan, he's one of my best. He started off as my barber. He became my best friend. He's one of the coolest people I know. And like, I like it.

Like one of the reasons I want to leave L.A. is because that shop can't open. That's where I used to go to get my beer gin in my butt wasn't his. That was out.

It's a real barbershop. And it was you have these great conversations.

You people he like, he's like got me like he's gotten me into a sublet that I once when I needed to be in L.A. for a little bit.

One of the sad things about being bald, I never really developed a relationship with the barbershop. By the time I shaved, it hit my head. It was too late now. Well, that's a good thing to do.

Can get like a nice straight razor shave yet, you know, there's, you know, good sparring about that. Right. It's like a girl with girls. It's acknowledged a lot of ladies like beauty salons, they like to get their nails done. They like to get their pedicures.

They enjoy it. Yeah, I really like. Yeah. That's all been shut down here. Right, right. Inlike like it sucks because that, that I loved going there and it's like but you know the thing is like a lot of people, it's not time to go back to work because if there is a true risk that from making minimum wage, you're going to get a disease that probably won't kill you because you're a waiter, Applebee's, you're probably going to be OK.

You're taking your vitamins, but you might be living with your aunt who has Alzheimer's disease, and you're going to fucking kill her because you picked up a little bit of it.

And the reason you're going to kill her is because you had to go back to work because your benefits got cut off. So it's like this is that this is why it's a very complex, fucked up problem that really it's like, yes, for me personally, I'm doing great. Do I want everything open? I want to go to guitar. I want Guitar Center is that I don't want to stand in line.

I want to go in and I want everything to be the way it was. I'm going to be OK. But this is again, it's like this is a complex problem. Yeah. I don't buy into the idea that the whole thing's a scam. I think we've got exactly what that asshole not.

Why do I say asshole? Too much booze. That is it.

Who was actually the opposite of an asshole on your show. I'm like calling a doctor hassel remember the Joe Rogan questions everything.

The Yes urologist who told us there's going to be another great pandemic six years ago. We should have talked about this before, but we should tell people Duncan and I were in Galveston, Texas, and we went to the Center for Disease Control and went to the very place where they experiment on Ebola and all these crazy diseases that kill you instantly.

And Duncan and I were in this building and we were watching like we watched through a window that takes you there's like another window behind that that's like this Plexiglas sealed room. And they have like spacesuits on and tubes. And I'm like, hold on, hold on. So there's some shit in there that can kill everybody.

One hundred percent like it's right there.

And they were doing tests on it.

And so these people are wearing like spacesuits and they're walking around with these horrific world killing diseases.

Yeah, man. And remember, we missed the flight. Yeah, we did. We missed the flight. We had to get there.

We were just high as fuck at the airport and the plane, the flight took off ducking it. I lost total track of time. We were barbecued. Do we take out of do not remember we did something. We were so high we might look at it.

We might have took my my customers to take an edible in the car. I guess that's because it takes time to get to the airport.

And by the time you get to the airport, the absurdity of it all just kicks in and full steam because it's like I have no control at the airport. The airport is a place where you just want to give up complete control. You're super duper duper high. That's a fun ride. So you and I were just sitting down talking about life and that plane show, we're like, where's the plane?

Like, the plane left. Like what? We didn't just miss the plane by like ten minutes, like forty minutes. It was the ultimate dumb stoner moment.

Like if we weren't on our way to film a television show, we would looked like the biggest losers. We looked like losers anyway. But but we had fun and we took one in the morning and we got there with very little, but we made it.

But being in like the Galveston, Texas Centers for Disease Control with like very different. This is the this is Duncan. This is Duncan. Went to some preppers. This is one that I really love because I didn't get a chance to be with you. So I got to watch it, you know, like from the clips and see what it was like. When you watch it, you get to be it that I was doing something else. We were trying to film two things at the same time.

I think that time, you know what, man?

I was really like not annoyed, but because I love doing the show, but I'm like, of course he doesn't show up to this motherfucker because, like, suddenly I end up deepening, I'm deepening, totally done it.

But I think it was when, like, there was a bunch of things that were trying to film when we're short on time. So we couldn't do things together. But when we did the Skinwalker Ranch one together, you were so pissed.

It was so fake.

There was the problem was when we got there, right when we got that, we heard this preposterous story from this person who's. A cigarette on the ground after you, that's what set you off. Yeah, because I'm like, this is a moron threw a cigarette on the ground in the forest. This is a moron like we drove here for. And he's lying. We're the moron who's lying. I'm like, oh, great, great. I actually asked him to pick it up.

Come on, man. I remember that moment.

But that was just like you can't it's a beautiful Utah forest. You smoke a cigarette and you throw it down. You step on it like you're not my kind of person.

Joe, here's the reason you're so American. You really do believe in a utopian ideal. And Joe Rogan questions everything for real, both of us.

This is what I realized years after we both had a sense in our heart that we might really find proof of something big.

And we went into it with that attitude.

We did, but we were so high.

We believe what we were saying, dude, that's the funniest thing about it, is like, you know, most people when they do these shows, they're not going into it thinking, like, I'm actually going to uncover something about them.

Yeah, of course, they don't go into it thinking they're going to cover something. They go into it thinking this is all a bunch of bullshit and I'm going to do I'm going to be like or maybe I think maybe it's real or whatever. But the main thing is they they don't they talk. They they pretend it's real. That's the thing that's real.

We didn't pretend it's real. And we also went into it like two guys who were more high during a show you will not find.

Yeah, it's true. You will not find this big barbecue pit. I was barbecue. We were so I dude.

And this guy, we don't need to blow this guy's spot up.

He's give me my hipster face, her voice and people love maybe he believes what he's saying. Maybe, maybe all that stuff that they were telling us they really truly believe. But they were talking about like bulletproof wolves that appear out of mist and all this stuff.

To me, that moment was when the show went south. And what was really funny was like this.

The last thing the sci fi network wanted was for you to like, actually like begin to like realize that maybe we're not going to find UFOs. And they started getting unhappy, I think, with the situation.

Oh, they did get unhappy.

There was actually a conversation there, like, is he trying to debunk these things because they have all these shows on like UFO and on Show Ghosts, and then they have this comedian asshole with his asshole buddy and they're both high as fuck. And like, this is so fake.

Like this is so but we wanted to know if we wanted to know we wanted to know if it was real or if it was a remember the alien artifacts part.

Do you remember that part? There was someone who collected all these alien little bits of yours. Didn't matter.

You don't remember? Probably. I remember I remember that because I was already given up on that point. I had noticed a pad, unfortunately, and I feel real bad.

But it was it was really a personal thing because I was dealing with my own nonsense, my own English city, my own inclination to believe ridiculous stories even today, like with the Pentagon story about them having recovered a craft not made from this world. Please don't let it be a misquote. I want to I don't want to read the misquote, man. I don't.

So I know that there's a real pull to believing in bullshit.

There's a real pull to, like, manipulating the actual facts of Roswell so that it appears the government absolutely 100 percent colluded to keep the alien crash from the general public. There's no way it can be a weather balloon. I don't know if that's right, man, because I know it in myself, because I see it in myself. I see that dirty little asshole that wants to believe in Bigfoot, that stupid fuck that like, hey, hey, hey.

Maybe it's a bear. Yeah. Maybe it's not a lost monkey species, but I want to believe so bad. So I think that this dirty asshole. But this is me. This is me. I've worked on this. Right. This is something that I've spent a lot of time thinking about. There's a lot of people out there that just lie about anything. But they the same way they want to believe, too. They want to believe in UFOs.

They want to believe in Bigfoot. They want to believe in all these things. They want to believe. Yeah. And it's not their fault. They this is they grew up in a fucked up town and the friends were probably all drunk by the time they were four. And the whole thing's a mess. And here they are stuck in this situation where they're just making shit up. And here you and I are standing there going, I don't think this guy ever really was kidnapped by Bigfoot.

Yeah. And we get to hear these ridiculous stories. There was too many of a man. We everybody we talked to had this I, I look real obvious psychological like Ben to them. There was always like. Right. Everyone and no one had a steady chassy. No one who you were talking to. Right.

Yes. You remember the fucking Bigfoot guy that said he would chop his pinkie off to find out Bigfoot was real? He was a professor.

He was a professor. After that on the podcast, we had the foot, the.

Footprint. Dr. Melchor, right, Meldrim? Yes, thank you, James the wizard. Dr. Meldrum, Dr. Meldrum. He said he would cut his finger off to find out Bigfoot was real.

Would you cut your finger off? Oh, I don't care. Listen, I hope it's not real. I hope it's real.

I don't care what you call it would be awesome.

What data set would you cut your finger off? I would cut my finger off to know if there was an intelligent design to creation on there that would give them the very tip of my pinky for that.

But then what happens and you run around with this information, can't share with anybody and you're freaked out all day. Well, no.

Then I try to contact that thing in a more intense way. I mean, like the tip of the pinky is not a bad thing to get rid of. Yeah. For like, knowing, knowing like whether there's like, again, you have to like a weak first of all, what what kind of computer are you working with that you're going to have to take your pinky and like drop it in to get truth out of it. It's a stupid computer.

You shouldn't trust it if you ever want to feel what it's like to be like three again. Make your thumb. Wrestle your pinky. You're Pinkie's like, shit, you have no power. You keep your pinky so weak.

That's what it's like to be like a three year old straining against your older brother and me.

Get off me, asshole. You got a pinky? That's right.

Is that what a bullshit little digit. What does that thing get used for?

What is it used for? So you dislocated both of them. You dislocated your pinky.

They don't match up.

Oh, dude. Oh, damn. Oh, that's weird. So one go. Oh, boy.

Oh that makes them and all sorts. You use it for holding wine. You needed to like exten when you're drinking. Yes. Look, man, very important.

I think that I don't feel like I hurt my pinky doing that, wrestling with my thumb, like legitimately.

It hurts now. So weak, so weak, I but I do so much with my hands. I'm sure the chin ups, there's some reason for somebody kettlebell grips and it's mostly these other fingers.

Even when you draw back of a bow, my boat, my my release doesn't even have a pinky thing.

A drawback with these fragrances. Bitch ass just hangs around for the ride.

You're so mean to your pinky. Why do you do that, Pinky? Yeah, I love them. They're great. I don't want to miss them, but think of a name itself. It's weird how weak it is compared to all the other digits. And they named it a pinky.

Like the whole thing is like mess that the whole thing does sound like it's a it is a very like we named Pinky itself is like, you know, fuck you up with this finger.

This finger right here is strong as fuck. This finger gets a hold of shit. This is a strong finger. This is a bullshit finger that's not hurting anybody.

We get on the same hand, listen, everyone belongs in the hands of the pinky. If you were as strong physically as your small toe.

Wow, that's great. That's life. Just everything can fuck you up. Every pebble is murderous.

Every time something upstairs, the bar way, you stub your tail, you want to die. If that's who you are, you are as strong as your little baby toe. Your little baby toe has zero power. Grab your little baby toe and like wrestle with it quick. It has nothing. It's a mess. It's a baby. Yeah, they call it a baby tokers. It's like a it's like babies are stronger than your baby toe. Yeah.

Yeah. Well let's bitch ass little limb. That's Yeah. That would you.

That's the funny thing about the human Sinton projection into time is like we're probably like the little toe of the universe, you know, like we have just enough realization to know that we're something where this hilarious intersection of like, you know, meet and what appear like a real feeling of like, you know, I do feel like bias aside, if there isn't a part of you that hasn't, like, really come to the conclusion, there seems to be a party that doesn't get touched by reality.

There's some eternal part of you that has met time and space. Yeah, I think I feel like most people get that sense.

Kids feel that. They know that. They just actually know it. But, you know, to me, I think maybe what we are in this little temporary, whatever it may be, whether it's an aquarium, whether it's a training facility, I think it's probably a training facility.

You know, like I don't think it's that I think it's a process.

And I think the process has to be tumultuous because if it's not, nothing gets done. I think the struggles have to exist because if there's only harmony and peace, everybody gets stagnant. That's right. There's there's a steady push towards ultimate technological innovation. That's the steadiest push.

If you look at the human race in terms of like what it makes, like what does it do? At the end of the day, if you have these bees and they have all this different thing, all these different social things they do and all these different things they do for covering territory and ground and all these different aspects of being a bee and laying the larva inside the honeycomb. But what do they do and what do they do? They make honey bitch.

That's what they do. They make honey, what do we do? We make robots. Yeah, we make computers. We make technology to get better every fucking year. We don't make better laws every year. Like, no, no, we don't revise that shit.

We got stuff written with fucking ink from charcoal. You know, that's what it's like in the archives somewhere. Yeah. What we do is we make better shit every year, we make better shit. And our goal is just keep making better shit. And I'm obsessed with better shit. I'm obsessed with like Indians and I'm obsessed. I love, like unbox therapy or any any of those shows. Marcus Brownlie, when they doing these Unbox videos and talking about the newest, latest and greatest technology and they're showing these one hundred and twenty hertz screens and these fucking cameras with a hundred x amazing like, wow, amazing.

What are we doing?

We're moving ourselves closer and closer to some kind of technological superiority. And along the way we're losing our humanity.

And that's the weirdest, most ironic part of it along the way of where we've never been in a greater technological era.

If you look in terms of the things that are consumer electronics, they get released right now, whether it's laptops or iPhones or Samsung, Note Twenty's or whatever, the players, these things are insane, right? Never been in a time like this before. This is like this is peaked also. When have we ever had a time with his riots in every city, every city all across the country? And it's a lot of it is things that most people agree with.

Right. You say especially if you say something like Black Lives Matter, I want to let's have a vote. How many people don't agree with that statement? Just forget about what everybody was. All the Marxist thing in these people. They want to destroy the nuclear family. I don't know if they do or they don't. But most people, I bet, who are who are a part of that movement don't even know what that means. They don't know all that shit.

They just don't want people to get. Killed by cop. That's it, that's it, and it's not like Michael Che has a great bit about it, it says, like, that's not even asking a lot. Like matters like Black Lives Matter, just matters like and people like me.

And I don't know yet. It's this is the strangest time for a socially because of covid. This is the strangest time because of the economy, the strangest time because Trump is president. There's chaos and the guy who's running against him is older than him. And you'll like this is madness. Yeah, but what is what is happening here? And no one knows when the fuck people are going to be able to go back to work. And there's all this chaos and all this anxiety.

It's all happening together at once. I know, man. I know. And that's what this is. You know, this is what I love.

Like, I work I work with a meditation teacher, David Nektar. He's he's brilliant.

And one of the things he tells me and I really this is an example of how cool is this is when all the New York Times shit came out about the aliens, I call them, I'm like David, New York Times aliens.

And he's like, wow. And then his response was, Duncan, where do you think that's come from? Do you think they're.

Born from something that was his response to me telling about aliens was the question, where do you think thoughts come from or thoughts like born like the way?

Well, it's a good question.

It's a great question. I still haven't figured it out.

I've asked if ideas were aliens. I think that if you think about a cell phone, right. I mean, obviously, this is a collaborative effort involving a lot of people that understand all sorts of different aspects of technology. But ultimately, it has to be an idea. Someone has to have the idea to come up the original Motorola phone, the fucking brick, and then they had the idea to innovate and keep getting better and better. And these ideas eventually lead to this thing that can open your car door, turn your lights on your house, you can FaceTime your kids.

It's a crazy, crazy, crazy thing. And it's all coming out of ideas.

Where does it come from? That's the question. The question is, is it an inherent part of being a human being? Because like all other aspects of human beings, we are not a single organism. We are a a biosphere.

The human organism is essentially an ecosystem. The human organism has untold trillions of of bacteria in our gut.

Right. We have it on our skin. We have all sorts of weird life forms that we live synergistically in this space as a person. Why wouldn't we think ideas be a part of that? Yeah, right.

They might very well be a part of that.

And the healthier your mind is, the more you're able to live with ideas, the more you able to bounce ideas around like ideas as a life form, just like their health. Like if you use antibacterial soap all over your body all the time, you get sick. Yeah, right. You get fucking rashes and shit because your body, it kills all the good bacteria too.

Yeah.

It's like, man that I loved the question because like one of my favorite acid trips was I was like listening to Beethoven.

Oh wow. Oh man. And I like, I like some, I don't know how it happened, but like I was like I had a little like this beautiful girl.

She's so beautiful. And like, I was at her house for listening to Beethoven. I was tripping and I started thinking and I was just like romantic and cool and that. But then I started thinking like.

Somebody thought of this and then I started thinking. But where did that where did it come from, like if they thought of it, what was it before they thought of it?

Like this didn't exist before Beethoven. So where was it?

And and I remember that is I was like thinking that on on the best that I still to this day, the best days that I ever had.

What's the difference? I'm not much of an acid connoisseur. What's the difference between really good acid and mediocre acid?

Apparently it has something to do with the mechanism of production weights.

Yeah, yeah. Which is like listen to like Kid Charlamagne by Steely Dan.

It's all about it's all about one of the great Ousley, one of the great LSD chemists of our time, who I met his wife and I asked her this question like, why is why is acid not as good as it used to be in the 60s? And her response was, people are perfectionists anymore.

Honey, that was literally there's also no wine before its time. Yeah.

It was like I don't I don't I don't know.

But well, that's I mean, that's a thing that we want with whiskey.

That's one of the things about Buffalo Trace who bottles this stuff. Yeah.

They they taste everything they smoked. And if it's not good, they don't they're connoisseurs that we want.

So I understand they would want that with acid. The problem is that acid illegal. That's the real problem.

The problem is you have some fucking space daddy, some dude who's at the top of the fucking helm of this spaceship as it hurls through infinity space. They they they don't want you.

They have to be space out. If it's the president of the state. That's space daddy, right? Yeah. The president of the United States is space daddy. He is the fucking leader of the greatest army the world's ever known. He's at the helm of the global empire. He's that space daddy. And he's we're going through space. So if we are a spaceship, the president, United States of space, Captain Kirk, he has to be, right.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's not a space daddy that's made LSD illegal. What's made LSD illegal was an earlier space daddy in nineteen seventy space.

Daddy tried to disband the civil rights movement. Yeah, but making drugs like all Schedule One drugs that space daddy did it.

But but good news. The good news is like there at least at the very least, they're letting people like, look at what it is and like how it affects the brain.

And they're beginning to understand that like everything we all knew, there's no point getting resentful about it.

But we all knew this. We all knew this.

And but we're all like it's being validated, thank God. And it's very sweet because it's a it's a healing drug, especially when used in and with therapy, you know, and it's healing. It's a very powerful, beautiful, wonderful thing that exists on the planet that anyone can have access to, especially if they, like, stop this ridiculous prohibition and lifted the prohibition.

I'm not saying like don't prohibit heroin, prohibit heroin, prohibit methamphetamine.

But even in regulation, the problem is I don't want anybody doing it.

But I should be able to tell you not to. That's the problem. That really is the problem. The problem is I shouldn't be able to tell you not to. That's right.

And certainly, like, too slippery, but you shouldn't be able to like it shouldn't be a five year mandatory minimum for LSD. I mean, that's Matt. No, that's madness. And it really does heal people.

It's a healing look. You do your like do your research, look into it.

They read Chaos. Now, the Tom O'Neil book now. Oh, my God, dude. One of my favorite podcasts over the last year I did was with Tom O'Neil, and he's Greg Fitzsimons neighbor.

It was Greg Fitzsimmons neighbor for 20 years. That's the whole time. Who's Greg's neighbor. He was working on this book. Now, Greg, never bring someone to me. Never, never says, dude, you got to have this guy as a guest ever. So out of all these years, Greg's like, dude, this guy you need to have on this guy research Charles Manson for 20 fucking years.

Yeah, he was originally just writing an article.

He was writing an article.

But as he's writing this article, he starts uncovering more and more crazy shit and he goes deeper and deeper into this, where twenty fucking years later, he finally puts out this book.

And this book is basically detailing a CIA LSD operation with Charles Manson was getting dosed in prison, allegedly. And there was he was being treated at this free clinic in Haight Ashbury that ran for more than 50 years and closed three months after the book was released. And they ran this fucking free clinic where they were dosing hippies. Yeah. And they were testing them. They ran Operation Midnight Climax. It was all part of MK Ultra. He's detailing step by step all these people that were directly involved in not just Charles Manson, but in fucking Jack Ruby and all these other political figures in history.

That's like what in the fuck all these mind control CIA, LSD experiments that were real and Charles Manson was a part of that.

Yeah, allegedly. And Charles Manson was dosing up these hippies and not taking it himself. He was using the techniques that they allegedly use. On him for like seven years while he was in federal penitentiary, what a mess this is a problem with like any time power.

I read this book, man, I look, I look, I've read a lot about that. And this one's different. It's just specifically what they did to allow Manson to run free and build these murderous hippies and get them high on LSD. This was all a part of this thing to sort of demonize the anti-war movement.

There was all these different strategies they were doing all the time. Yeah, because you take it in war seems ridiculous. You take LSD and money seems ridiculous. You take LSD and anything that doesn't have to do with love seems insane. The problem is, is like, you know, and this is, you know, all the psychedelic bullshit aside, if you just look at like basic Buddhism 101, I was in it the prior to this pandemic.

My favorite conversations were an Hubers man. And I'm writing this Uber and this Uber driver who's clearly a Buddhist. He's got a Buddhist, a Buddha statue that is like Dashboard and like so we start talking about Buddhism and we're talking about it.

And he said the coolest thing I've ever heard of regarding Buddhism, which is he's like, do you know how you look at letters? And they you think that they're a language. What are you before that is so cool? Thank God there's people like that in the world I know well, that's a true Buddhist, that's a true missionary.

But yeah, but in that in LSD will return you to that state.

So it will drop you under all of your apps that are running on the operating system of your consciousness for a little bit.

Some people hate that because they've like so identify with the apps that the moment they can't, like, cling to the app, that they become this like, you know, thing before the language, which is why some people on a lot of that can't even they can't talk. They talk about babies.

Yeah, but but what's happening is you're encountering like original sentience prior to conditioning.

And that's dangerous to any kind of power structure. Like if I'm trying to implement a hierarchy, I depend on your consciousness flowing into these rivulets that are language, morality, ethics, the entire structure of whatever. I'm like trying to like, tell you is the way things are. And if I can do that, then I can own you, because suddenly your morality isn't real morality.

Your ethics aren't real ethics. Your idea of what's right isn't necessarily what's right.

It's what's right for capitalism, what's right for communism, what's right for this or that.

If I can tell you if I can make your moral compass point away from service in any way, shape or form, I can control you forever. And so anything that gets in the way of that is really like generally like delegitimized by power structures.

I mean, it makes sense.

The problem is you're dealing with a combination of morality and a game and the game is trying to make money. When you have numbers. You know, I'm reading this book right now. I'm listening to it on tape.

It's called Irresistable. I keep forgetting the Stutes name who who wrote the book.

But I'm listen to it on audio book. It's Adam Alter and it's all about addictions. It's all about particularly how addictive games are insanely addictive, like games like Tetris and Candy Crush, insanely addictive, where they've made billions and billions of dollars on Candy Crush. Yeah, it's crazy.

Crazy people can't put it down like farmland made fucking unbelievable amounts of money. Crazy. There's something about numbers like you see, you lose your bank account.

You have got fifteen thousand dollars in the bank. Yeah. Believe this. That's pretty fucking good.

I remember when I was broke and then you go, you know what, it would be great if I had fifty. I just like to get twenty this year.

I'm just going to cut back on going out to eat. I'm going to do I'm going to put five away and then you're like, you know what, I need to make more. That's what I need to do. I need to make more money. I want to put in some overtime. I'm going to talk to the boss. When I look, I'm dedicated. I don't give a fuck. A lot of people get tired. I don't get tired.

Dude, I am dedicated to this fucking job and I want to move up in this company. And the boss is like, yes, come on aboard, slave man here. You going to work for the corporation 18 hours a day straight. You're getting paid. Well, don't get me wrong, you're not really a slave, but what you are is a slave to your own idea of what success is. You've got your slave to these. The idea that numbers equate success.

Yeah. You don't notice, man.

You don't notice. You don't notice. You get used to everywhere you live. It's nice if you live in a place that's safe after that. I'm telling you, you don't know nothing. You know what you notice. You notice when your friends are around you and you're enjoying each other's company and you're laughing and having fun. You notice those things? Yeah. You notice if you do something, then people enjoy it. You notice if you have a good interaction with someone at the store, like they go, no, you.

And then you go, no you. And then you both smile and laugh and everybody's you have it. That's those are nice moments, man. We have those. We still have those. Like you let somebody in front of you and they give you the peace and you give them the thumbs up. And these moments are still here, man. They're more than they're not. It's not like everybody is stabbing everybody. Everywhere you look, most of the interactions that people have with each other all over the place are positive.

That's right. It's a very small amount. The problem is, is small amounts. Make it on fucking YouTube and then that's all I can watch. There you go. I just watch these fucking people in Portland beat the shit out of each other and kick some guy in the head when he's sitting on his he's sitting down when he apparently drove to close the zanti for guys and they made him get out of the car. They're searching his belongings. This guy runs up behind them and kicks him in the head and knocked him unconscious.

Horrible.

I'm like, God damn it, it's not most people.

Most of the time. The problem is that's what everybody's going to pay attention to. That's what everybody's going to share on Facebook and Instagram. I saw that fucking video in my timeline like thirty times.

But this is what I love about humanity is like if you strip away the story and you see a person getting kicked in the head, honestly, man, like, I don't care.

Like in general, like, I don't care what that guy is, don't kick him in the head.

Here's the problem. Dude is a. Natural inclination to want to fight the opposite of your tribe, yeah, when you're 16 years old or however old that kid was, the kid who kicked that guy in the head, he looked young to me. I could have easily done that when I was 16. Easily. Yeah.

I was so dumb. If I was in the streets at 16, he was dumb. And we pulled some guy out of his car that someone said tried to run us over. And the guy sitting there. Easily, me or any of the people I hung out with, with a punch that guy or kick that guy. That's the normal. It's normal. Yeah. The problem is the tribal war that we have going on. This is the problem.

That's what you just said. That's the truth. That's the truth. And it's compassionate. This this is a stupid kid.

He was a fucking think. He worked at the airport, whatever the fuck he was. This is a stupid kid. And what he did is wrong.

He got caught up in the wave of violence and the mob mentality. It's normal.

We have to figure out. Listen, man, here, here's the thing.

We must discover you're not first of all, you're not going to find this on the map. I like going off the map, but there's not a map for this. So that's liberating to me. We got to get off the map. No one can get off the map like first. Everyone, this is what's so crazy.

People are really legitimately tuning into it like they like human trafficking in the United States. It's a big business.

It's one of the biggest business is actually human trafficking. Yeah, I was reading a post today.

Somebody sent me I don't know if it's verified, real or whatever, where a girl was saying that she was headed to a bathroom at a gas station somewhere and someone she noticed that someone was had their camera turned around.

So they like said the selfie camera on with her face time. And they pointed to this lady and they said, what about her? Yeah. She heard her say, what about her? Do you like her? And the girl looked at them and the lady turned and looked at her and she ran back to her car, got in the car, and the guy who was with them went and ran up to the side of the car like she thinks they were trying to kidnap one hundred percent.

They were. And that that happens. That happens. That happened. That's a real business.

This is not like this is not a fucking story. This is not a magazine article where people are you know, someone wrote some fiction.

This is right.

And the funny thing, not funny, but what's ironic about these sudden horror, human trafficking, there's a lot of the very same people who are fighting against this thing that they're realizing is happening in the country simultaneously. Don't want to look back into the history of the United States, which was 100 percent based on human trafficking. One hundred percent. Our country's foundation is human trafficking. They fucking kidnap black people and made them work for free. And somewhere in between that horror and now people have gotten this delusion that that stopped.

It didn't stop.

Our country is was literally founded. George Washington. Did you know this was the number one slaveholder in Virginia? Wherever the fuck he was, he was the number one slave, supposedly his wouldn. T thing. It was slave T.

Oh, yeah. He was the number one slaveholder. Yeah.

Did he have wooden Gumbs? Is that what it was? I don't know. The whole wooden T thing was a replacement of the truth, which is this motherfucker was a human trafficker.

So people try to like they try to revise.

So the idea is like, you know, look at this like this. Washington's dentures were likely sourced from the teeth of sourced.

There you go. They're going to say sourced. That wasn't sourced.

They were ripped out of the fucking mouth of human hostages. Don't say sourced. I sourced avocados to my fucking Mexican restaurant. I don't source teeth, motherfucker.

Why would you use that language? Why would you use that one? Yeah, it's not so sauce.

Go back to that. Jimmy, can I read the rest of it. Um, records at Mount Vernon show that he bought teeth from slaves, bought them.

But that's records. Who knows. Are the slaves actually got the money.

The poor enslaved had been selling teeth as a means of making money since the Middle Ages, which were sold as dentures or implants to those of financial means either way.

So, you know, Jeffrey Epstein, Jeffrey Epstein, his teeth from some of the young girls, he was fucking and it was actually common for the young girls. They sell their teeth for money, like it's that that right there that right there is the root of the fucking problem, which is like this country. George Washington was a human trafficker who had in his mouth the teeth of people that were kidnapped that was making work for free.

This makes Dahmer look like a fucking Boy Scout.

Can you imagine if look at this quote, according to George Washington's Ledger, on May 8th, seventeen eighty four, he paid six pounds, two shillings to Negroes for nine teeth on account of Dr Lemoigne. So he paid six pounds, two shillings. I don't know how much that is.

Who cares for nine teeth? So it says. This is he's paying to the slaves, so he says they don't know if they were slaves or not, probably paid to the doctor to extract it.

Jesus Christ, but it wasn't so there were free black men that lived in America. But what was the percentage versus slaves and free men?

Who cares?

The main thing is this asshole is in statues everywhere. He was a kidnapper who, like, took teeth out of people's mouths and put it in his own mouth. That's fucked up.

And so, like, when everybody's fucked up in our all of our all of our holidays, like Columbus was one of the worst people of all time. Yeah.

So this whole like when people are defending the statues, it's like, shut the fuck up. But here's the thing, man.

Should you allow people to just pull down the statues? Really? Yeah. What do you think? Because do you think here's what I think. What if they were Jeffrey Dahmer statues all over L.A.? No, you make a good point.

But what maybe we should educate people on why you feel so strongly about, like, the George Washington statue or even the Thomas Jefferson statue. A lot of people are arguing that Thomas Jefferson that, you know, he is a piece of shit and we shouldn't respect him either.

How do you do you think that all those statues should come down, or do you think it's more of an imperative for us to understand that?

In the world of 1776 or in the world of whatever, when did Washington get here? What was George Washington's first year in America? I'm not in any way, shape or form giving anyone a free pass on owning slaves.

I don't think anybody is in that man. That's all I'm saying. Anybody thinks that.

But what I am saying is I think human beings up until he was born in Virginia.

Oh, he was born in America.

My grandfather, George Washington, one of the first real Americans, 16. Jeffrey Dahmer one. Fuck it.

I'm getting a George Washington tattoo, Joe. I mean, what's wrong? He's American.

No, look, can I go to the statue question? This is what I think. OK, either take the statue down, right.

Or put around it the number of slaves that build statues for all the slaves.

Yeah. So if George Washington had 4000 slaves, there needs to be a field of slave statues around the George Washington statue that you have to walk through to get to the George Washington statue or just pull it down. You know what? It's easier to pull it down.

No, no, no, no, no. You're right, though.

Have the slaves and have some of them missing teeth because they sold it to him because we don't we'd have to find if you really bought teeth from slaves or just regular folks who needed money, just have the whole story.

They're like that's just have those stories.

If you're saying what you're saying is perfect, like if you're going to have a guy who victimized I mean, everybody did it back then. Everybody of wealth did it. It was a normal thing to do to have people that you owned. As crazy as that sounds to us, dude, I think that the world before mass communication, before the post office and certainly before any kind of boat travel when everyone was just either on foot or on horses was undeniably.

Impossible for us to understand because they were so savage, there was very few rules, people were just dying of syphilis and every other fucking disease that came around the bend, whether it was the flu or the plague, there was no sanitation. Everyone was a rapist.

It was just a wild, barely human thing that occasionally paint cool things and write things down and compose music, but lived in a savage environment that's almost unrecognizable for us today.

I don't look and again, man, like I'm presenting a counterpoint to you that I don't want people to prey upon me for the counterpoint saying, oh, well, douget had a baby go work.

But but I do want to present a counterpoint in the in with the intention of like, let's look at it like that, that maybe that is actually part of the conditioning, which is like if if like so if your country is based on human trafficking, which to this day is happening.

Well, this country is based on human trafficking, countries based, and it's also based on human sacrifice.

And this is also based on us killing the people that were here first.

That's right. And we've been at war for ninety two percent of our history. And many of those wars are based on nothing. So, you know, people are up in arms about the Bohemian Grove, but it's like, give me a fucking break.

Look at Vietnam. That's human sacrifice. There was money to be made from killing people and they made money. Right. So we have a country that's based on human trafficking in human sacrifice. Nobody wants to talk about it. The idea is the exact same thing that all abusers do to people they've abused. They want you to No. One, forget it. And if you start remembering it, they tell you you're crazy or that you're fucked up. So the idea is that like the world prior to the United States was a savage world.

Savage Africa was not savage. These were very advanced people.

But because, like the Europeans were were savage, we're brutal people.

They went in there and fucking just started chopping people up. These are people who had a natural, innate trust for other humans.

And they were like, put your hand out stap go get some gold or I'll cut your other one off. That's what they did when they came here to North America.

It was hills have eyes level so the hills have eyes roll into all indigenous cultures. They're in tune with the earth. When she gets weird they move. Look, here's the thing.

I've been spending the last six months deeply engrossed in Native American books and they weren't that nice.

Not at all. Do they hate each other? The Nez Perce were like practicing cannibals. The Nez Perce. Yeah, the Nez Perce Indians were cannibals. OK, ok. Listen, man, the Comanches killed everyone. They were brutal. They killed everybody. So you killed each other, right? They killed Native Americans. They would. Their main thing was raiding. They'd raid tribes and steal and kill and murder and rape. The idea I've heard and this may not be I didn't look into it and I apologize to the people who told me about this idea because I wish I'd researched it more.

But I'm going to put it out there is that Africa was a was a really ancient culture.

That was Africa's where Egypt is. Yes.

Wrap your head around exactly how many people don't recognize people were sending people there to get educated before slavery even started dying, before they burned a library of Alexandria.

That was the place where everybody would go to learn. Yes. And so we fucking went in there and just wreaked havoc.

Not us. Wasn't us. We can't say we I'm sorry for North Korea.

I love that I burped in New Jersey. We can't say we we made you made a very profound point and I burped.

No, we didn't do it. No, I don't. I don't mean we. I don't mean we. But I'm not saying like, I'm directly connected. I'm just saying like for me it's like the any time I get around any situation where someone is making it. So I can't say the truth.

Right. I get really annoyed. Yes. Yes. And which is why you're comic. It freaks me out. Yes. And it freaks me out.

And so the reason that the whole like whatever the particular movement is like when Trump is it like the Mount Rushmore.

Yeah. And that's Lakota. Right.

That's like sacred land. That's like sacred land.

But like they went in there and they chopped up a mountain with a bunch of like slave owners faces.

And Trump's like this the best man on earth. It's like it looked better before you put the human traffickers on it.

Right. The fucking hilarity of him suggesting that his face should be on it just to rile people up. Yes.

Some part of you as a comic that has to appreciate that.

I'm sorry. Know, I'm going to admit that's true. But when I saw that he was suggesting that his name should be on Mount Everest, I would not at Mt. Everest, Mt. Rushmore, I was I was thinking immediately like, oh, my God, he's moving them into checkmate.

Dude, look at my fucking Twitter. I've been like seven different personalities designed to rile people up over the last month. That's all you do the student thing. Jamie was hoping you would come in is your Cunard's character. It's fine. Look, no, but like does that should that person be president? No.

But listen, but that's hilarious. When in this madness with all this crazy, there's no such thing as gender world for a guy to come around and say, I want to put my face on Mount Rushmore, which is just this part of that that I like.

Well, listen, I'm going to be honest here. I'm not a fan of his lack of empathy.

That's what beautiful that's what's beautiful about you, is you're not afraid to admit something that I think is really important to admit, which is like, dude, there are like there are there's a continuum of reality and there's swaths of that continuum that are amazing.

Like, I don't know if you've ever been in a situation where, like maybe you're in a kind of like relationship, there's not great.

But there's a piece of that relationship, there's so fucking hot and so sexy and so beautiful in the midst of all the madness that it almost like makes the madness makes sense, right?

That's a that's a or certainly like are certain like substances.

I imbibe that if you look at what they do in my body, it's like terrible.

But like that sliver of whatever it is is great. So anyway, what I love that you're not afraid of doing is like putting out there like, look, man. It's not like people are one thing, but here's the thing, too, I'm not a willing victim of gaslighting. You can't you can't do that to me, right? I'm not interested. You know, I don't need anything from you. I'm not interested in you gaslighting me.

I know when someone's putting on a show. I had an email from a guy who I like who told me to stop talking about Joe Biden because all the problems are because he has a stutter and like, listen, man, when you're seventy four or however old is, he's older than that.

Right. The wheels come off man on everybody. Right. I, I don't feel as sharp at 53 as I did at thirty three. How about that. Yeah, the reality is these days, if I'm not on top of my fucking game, I get real spacey. Yeah. What happens in twenty years? Come on, man, are we pretending that we live forever? We need young, vibrant, robust people with a lot of energy who are also advanced thinkers.

And right now they don't have any one of those people in the race.

We've got craziness in the world now.

You know, man, like the thing with Biden is like, forget about like the like I'm voting for fucking Biden.

You to suck my dick. I'm voting for Biden.

Do we have to do that? Are you going to do it anyway? I'll tell you not suck your dick.

And why can't I get a blowjob on top of greed?

It would be nice. Look, I'm sorry to be aggressive, man. This liquor is like springing out of me.

That's what I love about whiskey. Whiskey has been responsible for some of my favorite conversations.

Look, man, shout out to Buffalo Trace.

I like the reality of the situation is like Biden. I don't like his policy regarding drugs. And I'm very resentful of a lot of the things he's done. And I'm also very resentful of the fact that that's what I'm like being that's the binary that I'm being forced to like, contend with here.

That's the resentment, right, is that we only have these two sanction choices. And if you're a good person who doesn't want people to die in the streets, you have to vote blue. That's it, period.

That's in the initial phases of it. When I was trying to like I was hoping Bernie would be the fucking front runner and I'm like, I fucked Bernie up to Bernie.

Got attached to some jokes. What do you mean? Bernie came on my podcast and I did a very lukewarm endorsement of Bernie, like, I can't do stand up right now. So I just tell you this.

Bernie did this very lukewarm.

I did a lukewarm. I said I'll probably vote. I had my friend Barry White song from The New York Times and I said, we can vote for I said, I'll probably vote for Bernie. I said, he makes sense. I like what he stands for. The guy has been rock solid his whole life. He's always believed, like we would be good to have a change where someone gets into office because this guy really believes in justice. He's not greedy.

He's not beholden to corporations.

Yeah, well, they ran with that.

And then all these people that were in competition with Bernie started pulling that on the podcast.

Yeah. Drunk high as fuck. Yeah. That stand up comedy put it in annoying put it in quotes. I remember that.

And there was one of them.

I read this article, there was a kind of real a real newspaper where in quotes it said he believes that lesbians lack the lower back muscles to fuck a woman correctly. What? This is a piece of my act.

It was a bit it was a bit about a conversation that I had at a bar. I was with a friend of mine at a bar. And there's this lady who was really aggressive, was making out with a girlfriend, and she yells over at us. She goes, Sorry, boys, she only likes girls. And I got my own dick. She says this to us. Yeah. So I go, Where is it? And she goes, it's strapon.

And I said, Having a strap on and thinking it's a dick is like having a lighter and thinking you're a dragon. Plus everyone knows that lesbians lack the proper lower back muscles to fuck a woman correctly. It was like I was in this sparring match is verbal sparring match with this crazy lady. That's what I said. You can't just take that part out and put it in quotes and say that's what I believe, that lesbians lack the proper lower back muscles to be in a loving relationship with another woman.

She's also a lesbian. That's not what I said, bitch. I can't trust you on anything. How am I going to trust you with Russia or climate change or anything? You write about jokes, right? Because they didn't want a guy who wasn't beholden to the system. So there was two people that I was interested in. Tulsi Gabbard, who's she's been a congresswoman for six years. I love her. She's she served overseas twice, rock solid.

She's a real leader.

And they didn't want to have nothing to do with her. You know, Tulsi is a plant.

The Hari Krishna is going to be good. I hope they get in. Let's give it a chance. Look, they're right. They seen those hard Christians.

I mean, I'm like really eat my ass here because, like, there was a period where I'm like, you know what?

Fuck this. I'm not going to let the fucking Democratic Party shove this motherfucker who's like who's like pro all these.

What happens if he does Comilla becomes president and then does she have to get a new vice president?

Who does she get a chance to get a vice president?

AOC because you don't see you don't have to be a certain age to be vice president. I love AOC. I don't give a fuck what anybody says about her. She's wonderful.

I love her. She's awesome. Eat me alive.

I don't care. Look at me. Who cares?

I think she's awesome. I love her so much and I'm going to get shit for it too. But I think the errors that she makes, she makes because she has this idea that she's trying to do good. I really believe that she is. She's also thirty. Yeah. How fucking dumb were you when you were thirty? One of the things about Bridget fettucini. Serious point, Bridget. This is amazing what happened here to be certified to be vice president, sorry, it's hanging there in the wings, baby will pick you up and turn to you.

I think she's trying to do good. Yes. Bridget Fettucini was one of my favorite people to talk to. She said that when she read a diary that she wrote her journal, she wrote when she was twenty four, she's like, Jesus Christ, I was AOC. And now she's like much more of a centrist. And frankly, she's always mocking woak shit, you know? And she's like, but I was like full on woak when I was twenty four.

I get it.

It's a thing of a person being a good person who's compassionate, who wants to do good for people, who thinks they're moving in the right direction. But the problem is it's not in line with the understanding that we have currently of psychology and of how people behave and of laws and the idea of punishment and crime. Like you have to have some of that stuff. Yeah. You have to have incentives for people to do well, but you also have to have disincentives for them.

They have to be punished if they commit crimes. You have to have law and order, but you have to have compassion. You have to have goodwill. But you have to have you have to have law.

You have to model it on good parenting, man. It's like that's what that's where that's where it's.

And also good community. I think parenting is one aspect of your your ability to develop growing up. You, like neighbors, are important to men. Friends, absolutely. Uncles. All those people are important in your life. These aunts, you know, everybody, your grandparents, there's there there's a lot of shit going on. It's input coming into a person.

I just love, like thinking like what's outside of propaganda parenting. It isn't outside of propaganda.

But you can like as a parent I can see like, look, it doesn't matter what my ideals are regarding regulation, rest is not going to be allowed to go into the pool unless I'm there with him 100 percent.

He'll die. He'll die. So there's like real like there's like a true like to me there's an eternal sort of path in in like looking at what good parenting is across cultural cultures.

And you realize, like, you know, you're an idiot.

If you think that people in the vast number of humans on Earth, if you think are people in that vast number aren't insane, like what percentage are insane?

Michael, you're insane. Everybody's insane. Well, I know, but I'm just saying that's the problem. Like, what does that metric you know, a fucking yard is three feet. No, I'm saying I'm talking like like people who are like registered sex offenders or, you know what I mean. Like that that like Partho, like true narcissist, true sociopaths. Like we live in a world where from time to time. But it's still a spectrum.

Right. Because like what if someone sane but they're a gambling addict and they keep losing all their families money here in a poker game.

Right. We got to figure out a way to help them without simultaneously creating tyranny.

Have you fuck with ibogaine now? I don't want it, man. I'm terrified of that shit.

I don't fuck with ayahuasca. I smoke DMT from time to time, but I'm scared of a six hour DMT trip, much less ibogaine if you don't know.

I became you know, I don't have any, like, physical addictions that I'm trying to kick or real personal addictions. I've kind of got those things dialed in in terms of my workout and, you know, work schedule and family schedule. It's pretty good right now.

I've got a good harmony. I've got a good rhythm, and I'm going to keep that up. Yeah, but people that I know that have really needed it or people that got hurt and then they got prescribed pain pills and the pain pills is what got them. I know quite a few people that have turned to the ibogaine, two good friends that have turned to the ibogaine and it knocked them right off of the addiction and right back on path. And it's really disturbing to me because it's it doesn't seem to be killing people and it's not legal.

And I think going forward in this country, we're going to have to come to grips with a bunch of shit.

One of the things we're going to have to come to grips with is we've got and this is not a bad thing, OK, if any company should is allowed to donate to a political candidate, any company fucking you know, any company, chocolate company, a company that makes cars, then a drug company probably should, too.

If they're allowed to sell drugs, maybe they should be allowed to to to give money to corporations or give money, rather, to politicians that are running for governor.

Why not one? I mean, everybody can do it. Who's to say they can't? And the fucking guys make cars can when they're polluting the air.

OK, who knows? But at the end of the day, we have to go, yo, there's a lot of people getting hooked on these pills.

Yeah, man, there's a lot of people ruining their lives in these pills. And we're turning a blind eye because there's a lot of money involved in these pills.

Yeah, and it's weird. It's weird. It's weird. Like the cigarette thing. It's so if we're so worried about one hundred and seventy thousand people dying of covid, why aren't we worried about half a million dying from cigarettes? Why aren't we worried about all the people and not just dying but losing their fucking their.

Sanity on opioids, how many people in this country are hooked on fucking pain pills? Is it I mean, do we even know the real number? Because how many people are functional when they're hooked on it, but they're just like taking one or two a day and they're just going to work every day. Yeah. And they just stay in a steady haze of fucking working for fucking, you know, Hertz rent a car and they just and they get a prescription.

So it's all good.

Doctor says, Brave New World, baby, brave new world. This is all these are all the things that I think of.

And this is it gives me a this is the perspective that I have in this day and age right now as I'm talking to you, a place of humility, because I'm more aware now than any other time in my life that no one is in control this thing and that we all have to just stop thinking that daddy's going to rescue us. That's right. Because there is no daddy said he's not your daddy. Gavin Newsom is not your daddy. Donald Trump's not your daddy.

Nancy Pelosi is not your mama. Now, none of these things, these are just people. And we have to look at this in an objective. First of all, anyone who's famous, anyone I don't care if you're Donald Trump or Nancy Pelosi, those are famous people. Everybody knows her name. Everybody knows what they look like.

That's a wild way to live. That's a wild, crazy way to live. Yeah, that's a crazy way to live.

And then you're out there also dictating what people can and can't do. And you're saying you're hiding where the taxes go.

Your item, you're not. The idea is like by becoming famous, you become antithetical to the very thing that you're representing. So how can you represent it anymore if you have you? I'm not saying you can't, but I'm saying that's that's a different ride.

That's that's different than a regular person. Yeah. If you're if you're a famous person and you're all of a sudden at the helm of an empire that's dropping drone bombs on people, fuck you.

Who shouldn't the greatest government via government that has an idea of eventually there'll be no more government. There should be.

But then you have shit like 9/11. You know what happen? We get attacked.

If we did, we I don't know. I don't know what happened. What happened.

I don't know who trained those people who designed that a lot of things happen afterwards that people will say, did those things that happened afterwards happened because and this is my belief. My belief is that all the things that happened after 9/11 in terms of like the Patriot Act and all these other things, they happened because people were taking advantage of an opening where they recognized a lot of people were scared. And then they started implementing these ideas that they would love to do during peacetime.

Yeah, but they would never be accepted. That's my the dogs of war. But this is my interpretation. Some people are under the impression that they actually orchestrated the event and then afterwards implemented these new rules and everybody went along with it because the event they orchestrated. Now, I'm not saying I know that that's not the case.

And this is what's the scariest fucking thing to admit when you know about Operation Northwoods.

You know that the government in 1963 was literally planning on blowing up a jet airliner and blaming it on Cuba. They were going to arm Cuban friendlies and attack Guantanamo Bay.

They're going to do whatever they could get us into a war with Cuba. This was signed by the Joint Chiefs of Staff to like I like it.

I like deception. Yeah. I like what you're going to do. You're going to kill people.

Let's go war, baby. Go to war.

If they did that in, what was it, sixty two or sixty three. Who who knows how that's evolved, right? Why wouldn't that evolve? Everything evolves. OK, technology evolves. Our understanding of biology evolves and evolves at times.

You know what evolved? What evolved was not the technique. What evolved was the story. The technique seems to be the same.

You look at the news that Putin opponent, he fucking keels over in an airplane moaning on a plane you had to drink was tea.

The Kremlin apparently says we wish him a speedy recovery.

And everyone's like, what the fuck? And it's like, wait.

Actually, the use of poison and imperialism is a pretty classic basic technique, like not just in Game of Thrones, but like in general, if you're an imperialist and your interest is like power, you you use whatever technique you have to use the that technique and using it in that way point to this thing that we're really worried about.

What we're really worried about is there there's this underlying narrative that's going on with these elites who are battling it out and these war lords.

Yeah.

And these evil sociopaths around the world are battling it out all the well, they don't think they're capable, but they don't do it.

They don't just have a guy just fucking blow his brains out on the airplane and then just jump right off on the tarmac. And then he gets rescued by the Russian police. And then nobody says anything about it ever. No, they do it in a weird, sneaky way. Yeah. It's like there's some plausible deniability involved, right?

Well, they pretend that no one they don't think they're evil. Putin doesn't wake up in the morning and look in the mirror and go, I'm an evil jackal.

What are the henchmen of the apocalypse?

Putin probably wakes up in the morning. I imagine he stretches he looks at his phone, he's got text from his friends.

He's like that motherfucker, fuck that bitch. And then he like and then more than likely exercises. And then he go and he I bet a lot of times Putin wakes up, the morning is like, I don't want to go to work. I bet a lot of times he's like, God damn it, I just want to fuck off all day. Then he has to go to work. He's stuck being Putin. Trump wakes up in the morning, same problem.

He's like, this sucks. Drinking Diet Coke, watching Fox. I promise you crazy shit. He wakes up in the morning, takes whatever the fucking drug are. What do you think he's taken? Dude, I don't know what some of it. If you had to guess he's on some kind of an amphetamine. Yeah, I don't know what it is, but some sort of diet pill. Yeah.

Whatever confirmed it, that whole thing where they said they found the very Duane Reade pharmacy in New York City where he had been taking.

I'm not going to meet somebody for being on drugs. Listen to me, man. He's seventy four. He wins. OK, if you can make that much money while you're on unfetter means and don't die, then they're right. The doctors are right. The doctor is safe. You sure I want to make money. Yeah, I want to keep going. I don't want to sleep. Like just take this shit. You don't want to sleep and he just keeps going.

He rattles off fucking campaign patches and hops on a helicopter and flies a thousand miles away.

Find me a 70 year old not on drugs and I will give you a hundred dollars.

Give me a fucking break, you seventy. You're going to die like twenty. So you're going to die like if when I'm seventy.

Oh, my mouth is going to be like a baby bird underneath any drugs that wants to put in. Of course we're we're both high now. Yeah. Drugs are fine. Like, I don't care if Trump is on drugs or Putin's on drugs or whoever's on drugs.

It's like the point is like these the problem is that like we like to imagine, like Trump wakes up in the morning, it is like that we destroy this country.

Trump wakes up in the morning in a haze. He takes some weird drugs. He tries to remember what he's doing. I promise you, every morning he thinks to himself, why the fuck did I listen to my kid?

I guarantee it was this kid is like, Dad, you got to run for president. No, he's like, oh, no, no, no, no, you don't. You think you want. I don't think he wants to be president.

Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It was Obama talking shit about him. A hundred percent.

One hundred percent when Obama was doing that dinner, you know, that that's that that thing that they do every year with what's it called again, Jimmy?

The press rose White House Correspondents Dinner. Yeah. White House Correspondents Dinner. And don't Donald Trump in the audience. And Barack Obama's going deep and he's hit them with a ball.

It was good. It was good. And one of the things he hit some was here's one thing. I am that you'll never be president of the United States.

And everybody goes, oh, it's like, you know, that meme with the kid, with the glasses and he's just standing there and all the other kids are running around. He's having a debate. Can we hear some of this or we'll get in trouble? No, it was a brutal racist. Is that like public domain or anything? Do you think he wrote it?

Do you think he wrote it? I don't think he wrote it. Oh, sure. He would write that because Trump was a part of the birther movement. But here's the thing, honestly.

Legitimately, I hope he was born in Kenya. I hope they pulled it off because I don't care because my grandparents were born in Italy. I don't give a fuck. I don't need you to be born in this patch of dirt. You know why? Because I'm not a fucking idiot.

I don't think you should have to be born on a Patch Der Sloot should you have to be born in fucking Calabasas in order to be the president of Nobu or whatever.

That's a bad example for you to live. It's a restaurant, sushi restaurant, Malibu. Do you have to live like in the town? Like what are you saying to all the patch of dirt? You significant where once you been expelled out of the vagina? I moved here when I was 13 minutes old. Is that OK? What if I what if I my mom shat me out in the middle of a plane on the way across the Pacific?

Am I American? Who cares? It's stupid. It's dumb. Fucking dumb. Well, that's like geospatial centrism.

I hope he's born in Kenya. I hope he admits it. I hope he says, oh, and by the way, I was born in Kenya. Oh, shit. If Obama wanted to, you know, have that everybody has a one friend, please come out.

Come out of the closet, please.

Yeah. Please feel better. Don't care. This is there's never been a better time. If I'm not saying Obama was born in Kenya, I believe everything he says. I believe he was born in Hawaii. But part of me wishes he was actually born in Kenya and he waits until after the election.

And if Biden wins, he just gets to the by the way, I was born in Kenya. Oh. And the whole audience just goes by. The birth turns into a sun. Everything would erupt, man.

I got to pee pee pee. But what are you going to do when I go pee?

Jamie has the editing equipment. Oh, right. He's the wizard. I don't take your headphones off headphones. Don't run away behind the back that was closed. I don't want it to end. We're not we don't have to end it. There was one thing that I wanted to make sure.

When we decided to go to Spotify want, one of the first things I thought of is Duncan Trussell has to be episode number one. That was like a legitimate thing, I thought, because there's something about my relationship with Duncan. It's very unique. Like he brings things out of me. He he puts me in it. When you're around certain friends, they put you in a state of mind that you don't go into when you're not with them.

But I'm with Joey Diaz, one of the things that I love about Joey Diaz. But I'm always smiling when I'm with Joey Diaz, first of all, because he knows I love him. I've loved him forever. We've been friends forever. Every time I see him, I hug him. So because he knows I love him when we're around, he just starts talking shit. He gets loose because he knows that I'm his number one fan and.

Another person like that is Duncan, when I'm around Duncan, there's something like we do to each other, like we're like some sort of a weird EPOXI where you mix it together, where he puts my mind in a place that it doesn't ordinarily go to automatically. I think I genuinely believe there's ideas that I form when I'm talking to Duncan, like ideas popping in my head when I'm talking to him that they don't get there anywhere else. And it's it kind of goes in with what we're talking about, about that other guy's idea of thoughts and my my concept of ideas that maybe they're a life form.

Maybe they're just like ecology that lives in your gut or the floor that's on your skin and that they different people have different combinations of those things. Just like some people.

You just don't vibe with them. You talk to them. You just want to get away from them as quick as possible.

He's like, oh, this person's so annoying and you can't help it for whatever reason.

It's like they say that women, Furhman whites, like women, could smell a man's clothes and they can sort of I don't know if this is true, but I read that they can accurately depict if they smell a man's clothes, whether or not they should be attracted to that man, whether or not they're genetically they match up well with that man. But that gets fucked up when they're on birth control.

Yeah, that's when it gets confused. Yeah, it's well, it's sex at dawn, but it was a real study and there's a real concern about that, that people are you know, we're losing some of our senses, too.

I was in a relationship with a woman who got off birth control and stop wanting to fuck me. And I remember like hearing that and like being able to refer to the moment that she seems to be really into me.

But then she got her birth control and suddenly you're like real intuition was like, you know, one of my babies, this guy just fucked up and she stopped.

She stopped. It was real. Like, I remember the moment it happened. It was so bizarre. I was like, it was great.

I'm by the way, I'm glad because, like, the baby that we made is so beautiful and like, have you heard this shit about the egg picks, the sperm. If you heard about this, how does this is the new research is like, you know, it's dudes.

We're always like, well, we make the come and there's a sperm that makes the end of the race and that's one that makes the baby.

So in our minds, we're like, it's our it's like a sperm that won a marathon gets into the egg is a reward for winning the marathon. But now the idea is the egg actually is like the sperm are running to the finish line and the egg sends out chemicals to destabilize certain sperm and picks the one that fits best with that. The whatever the plan of the egg is, look at that.

Human eggs use chemical signals to attract sperm. Humans spend a lot of time and energy choosing their partner. New study by researchers from Stockholm University and Manchester University NHS Foundation Trust shows that choosing your partner continues even after sex. Human eggs can choose sperm.

It's the goddess baby dudes. It's like the last fucking bastion we had was this idea that we had this athletic little bit of our time that made it's really the mother egg that picks it up.

Come come to me. Come to me in the my back to my mother.

It sends out signals to destroy certain sperm trying to make that made it all that way.

Choose the eggs may pick sperm for their genes defying males law work done. But then again, the sperm that get there, those are still at the front of the pack.

Yeah, like in price is right. Which is likely the, you know, the eggs.

Like, look, I want the best sperm, but the best one is going to be the one that's there first. Dude, it's very obvious. Both things. It's good. It's sweet. It's kind of both things. Right. Yeah.

But the final decisions, the egg bitch ass lazy sperm that just bounces off the head of the rugged sperm and the like winds up plump. Wow. Can't believe you chose me.

It's like I didn't know I have a nerd and the egg gets really pissed because it's not a precise mechanism. There's a lot of chaos going on to encourage, you know, entropy and discourage innovation. They figure out how to better the better version of the species to get into the egg. Yeah, sometimes there's a headbutt and then the dumdum goes right in first and bang, you got a kid. That's not that you don't want that kid. But then that being said, so on one supposed get eaten by coyotes.

On one level, it's great because it says actually the goddess chooses everything.

But then on another level, you've got Hitler. Exactly. So that Hitler's mom's egg had a bunch of other sperm that were like, we're not doing a genocide in connection.

Well, we talked about before with Hitler amphetamines. Yeah, Hitler was all about it, they would inject chokin him and testosterone in him.

There's a legendary story about how Mussolini wanted to talk to Hitler about pulling out of the war and Hitler showed up, shot up with cocaine and testosterone and just might not.

Yeah, I don't know. Mussolini know what the fuck he was saying, but he sweated on it until Mussolini relented.

Dude, that's true. McKinney used to talk about alcohol in this way.

I like the idea of like we survived alcohol, just like we talked about alcohol being the differentiation between the ancient psychedelic cultures, the like Chapel Hill that worship the cattle, which like shat on the ground, the mushrooms grow from. And they had those mushroom iconography to when they started preserving things and preserving things in Honi, which meant fermented honey, which meant meat, which meant alcohol.

And then they switched to an alcohol based society that couldn't grow the mushrooms anymore because of climate change or because they were moving and moving in different directions.

This is what I think happened. This is where I disagree with McKennitt, but I think all how confident are you not that confident fact that you say, I disagree with McKenna. I was about to apologize to Dennis, forget and say I acknowledge I'm a complete dope.

Well, he disagrees with his brother sometimes. Yeah, but he disagrees in the way in ethnobotanist disagrees.

The science is not in the way some fucking somebody who literally goes a night goes to read a conspiracy, who's literally on a show called Jarobi questions everything. We investigated the UFO materials, I'm sure, like Stephen Hawking disagreed with Albert Einstein to a bunker to talk to a dude is going to start a cult.

And you're like, hey, you guys grow tomatoes?

No, I'm. I'm. I have to come back. But who is that guy like, he's a really nice guy. I might well get a nice guy digs a hole the size of a fucking mountain and parks his SUV. This guy is crazy, bro.

It's so stupid to say I disagree with with one of the great minds that I acknowledge that.

But but, you know, to me, like this is where this is what I picture happening. So, OK, we're storing our mushrooms in jars of alcohol, right? We're storing mushrooms in jars of alcohol in the rich people. The elites eat the mushrooms. They all trip out and their little orgiastic fucking awesome thing.

And then who's left? The people whose job it is to put the mushrooms in the alcohol and what's left these jars, they have a little bit of booze in them and some mushroom residue. They drink it and then they start, you know, like that would be the beginning of, like, getting fucked up on alcohol.

I guess what I'm saying is, like, I, I imagine that, like, really like if you look at like, OK, mushrooms or LSD or any psychedelic, it teaches you you're a we not an eye.

You're a weed, not a meat and booze. What does it teach you. You're a me.

When you're all pissed off on booze 100 percent of the time, you're not angry because you're like worried about the conditions of the world.

You're usually angry because someone like what's funnier than when you, like, insult an alcoholic, how many times you've been around, like, have you ever heard alcoholics feelings?

We say to them, hey, you're an alcoholic and you see that look on their face when they recognize that you're telling the truth. Yeah. That it really hurts. Yeah. They get mad at you. Yeah, yeah, dude, I like the alcoholic outrage is one of the most, like, desperately sad things to witness. There's nothing worse than a drunk whose feelings are hurt because usually their feelings are hurt because. Because you told the truth.

Yeah. Yeah. They don't want the truth. And so because they're their condition depends on lies. So.

Well, it's a weird like one of the things about alcohol, it's like it sort of narrows reality.

Yeah. You know, like if you think of one of the things that I really, really enjoy about edibles, there's a thing that I enjoy where I get so paranoid and so freaked out that I don't think I'm going to make it.

And then I come down from that and I get to this place of humility. And that's one of my favorite places to be as a person when I'm coming down from like a horrendous edible high. And then also I'm like real thankful that it's over. I just want to be friends with people. Yeah.

Like, there's that space and it's sort of like the world broadens your danger, broadens your humility, your humanity, your vulnerability broadens.

And then it comes back to a manageable level and you recognize that it can be so far worse than what you're experiencing currently. And it's just your perspective that's fucking things up, because right now with you and me right here, no people have ever been more comfortable in the history of humanity. No, no. We're both in love. We both have children. Yeah. Both drunk and high. We love each other and making each other laugh. Yeah.

Anybody in this position that looks at things incorrectly.

But like our our problem is always perspective. Our problem is always not recognizing how good we have it when we have it.

That's right.

Dude, this is like there's a Buddhist teacher, Jack Corfield, he says tend to the part of the guard and you can touch and also choke up a rimpoche when one of his books, one of the things he said was, look, it could be any minute.

It could be there's an ism that's good. There's an ism. It's the right way to be. Like it could be socialism, communism, you know, it's capital. He didn't say that. But there could be an ism that works, right?

Because we can't we can't accept the fact the isms of the past are the only ones that are ever going to be available.

That's crazy. There might be a utopian ideal that is applicable to the now or just better.

But what he said, what I love about what he said is it doesn't matter if you can't find peace in your own home. Yes. If when you're in your own home. Yes. Disharmony if you're in your own home.

People are unhappy in your own home, people are freaked out, then why would you even think about socialism, capitalist capitalism or communism when the when the when the pixelate of society is the house, the householder, and within that pixel there's division.

Then of course, in the world that division would be like made into some monstrous thing.

So why even down to the core, to the singular you as a human, who are you OK.

Well, yeah.

Do you have your shit together or. No, sometimes yes. Sometimes, sometimes yes, sometimes no.

And everybody wants to point at people who don't look at you.

You don't have your shit together. Don't I know you got your shit together. That's not helping me get my shit together that with your white privilege. But I'm trying to be better.

I believe you, but you must be punished. I'm not sure for how long. Well, that's aggression. Silence. I want silence from you for an extended period of time.

Give it to the side. I'll give you. The further the silence, the more you going to appease people. You can wait ten years. No one like for people to be upset.

Look, man, ten months all like to me, like it's like the whole that that whole ball of wax man is like dude like after once I started like the thing is like when all the shit happened and as a comedian I was like really afraid to get into like even like a little bit of studying the shit people are upset about because like no I can read in their right mind.

Wants to be identified with like some woak ass comedian because it's embarrassing.

But then when I started looking into it, then I found out about the George Washington shit.

The George Washington shit is super creepy. Creepy.

There's no way if those teeth were valuable, the people weren't murdered for the teeth. That's it. Like this in no way.

People weren't like just held down and they got their teeth stolen or they were told that they were going to get money and they weren't and they were many of them or had been raped.

But here's the thing is the real value in getting outraged at shit that happened hundreds of years ago, or is it is it an acknowledgement of, first of all, the fact that we all agree we can do better?

That's what the turmoil, the turmoil exists, all of it social, economic. The turmoil exists because we haven't really come to grips. With whether or not we can all get together and be cool with each other all the time, yeah, so there's always some sort of turmoil.

And when you look at turmoil in terms of like whether it's financial turmoil or social turmoil, we're always trying to figure out like who's being the asshole.

Right. Do you feel like that when you. What do you mean when you see anything that's happening, like when you see when when you see a government getting overthrown, when you see war, you always like who is being the asshole? Any kind of turmoil?

You mean you try to find the perpetrator of the. Difficulty, right, what's causing it, and is it possible that most of this shit could be avoided and what's stopping most of it from being avoided?

When you look at any kind of any kind of a government like any kind of country, in any time a country invades another country, any time bombs are being dropped from drones, like what can be done to avoid this?

That's right. What can be done, dude?

I mean, I started this fucking pandemic philosophy club is what we call it with like my friends, Marcus and Brad.

It was that we don't even do a podcast every Friday. We just get together and talk and they like Midnight Gospel. That's how I got lucky enough to meet them when that gospel is an amazing show.

Thank you. Can I just say before we get going, I'm really proud of you. Thank you. Really, really proud of you because it represents you as an artist more than almost anything any of my friends who have ever done has done.

Because you're so weird and it's so weird, but it's so funny and it's so it's amazing. They let us make it.

I can't praise Odan for Netflix praise, though, not praise. But what they've done is amazing.

But what you've done is somehow or another encapsulate what some of the things I love about you, how weird you are, how you're not like anybody else.

When you came here today, one of the things that I said, dude, I go, you're the only guy that like I like listening to your ads.

That's sweet. I do. Thanks for your fucking Express VPN ad is a hilarious ad. It took so long I didn't even know if it was an ad. Thank you. So crazy. But you're the best one is the one who was you are the the best that I've ever seen at reading ads.

And of all the people that I've ever heard who read ads. Yeah. Your ads are the most entertaining.

You're very sweet, Joe. And I'm not going to get a cock sucking competition with you, but I wouldn't be here if not for you.

And that's the truth. And I'll never stop saying it and I will never stop being grateful to you.

I would I wouldn't be me if it wasn't for my friendship with you. Yes, it's true. I appreciate that we all benefit each other. Yeah, but I don't mean to cut you off. I'm so sorry. By the way, I had a little bit of booze, so forgive my impetuousness that I would like. Certainly interrupt you, but you do have a history of finding like young comedians.

You are like and you do like help us a lot and we are eternally grateful to you.

And I don't care if you don't acknowledge it, you won't acknowledge it, because if you did, you're afraid you'll go crazy.

It's not that I want I'll tell you from my perspective is not that I'll go crazy, it's that I have to do it. There's no ifs, ands or buts. It's a path. It's like if you're going down, if you're on a fucking one of those waterslides and you're going flying down, you're just going that way.

If you're a good person and you love comedy and you love comedians and you have friends and you want to see them happy and you want to see them successful. Yeah. And you know, they're good. And, you know, it benefits not just them, but you to elevate that.

Right. I'm like, hey, check out any Letterman.

Hey, check out everybody, whoever it is, it's like I want them to know that my relationship with them, anybody who's listening this podcast or anybody listens to my standup or watches it, it's genuine. That's who I am. So if I find someone who's awesome, I want you to know about it. I don't want to get paid for it. If I find a great band, I start talking about it on Instagram. I find a great application man.

I tell people it's cool. I have the obligation. I didn't know that, but I did. I don't I don't think I'm in a position that everybody's in. It's a weird spot.

And might I say I'm so glad that any Letterman is someone that you've your attention. But she is so funny. She's so far podcast. It's so fucking funny.

I'm sure it is. But dude, Hurn Whitney, this is what happened.

We were at the comp store tonight, Mike Binder.

Mike Binder is doing his his whole Showtime documentary thing. So we're all on the roof. It was fun man. I got to chat with Paul Rodriguez. Very cool, dude. I really never got a lot of time spending talking to Paul Rodriguez core.

He's really cool, man. He's really good. And some good, good, good stories about South America and Latin America and Mexico where comedians have actually got jailed. Yeah, really interesting shit. And Bill Burr was hilarious and Annie Letterman was on fire. And then there was Whitney Cummings and Jay Leno. And we had a good fucking time. And it was a and Mike Binder. It was a really good fucking time. It really was. It was it was it.

First of all, it reminded me. How much I love that place. I know what's in there, I was like, God damn it, I got so emotional and I went to the door.

But when I had Whitney and Annie together and they talking shit to each other, I'm like, these girls are so funny. And they love each other.

They're really good friends. And and I said Whitney was scheduled to be on the podcast. And then I said to her, I said, Do you care if Annie comes?

I want to come, but it's up to you. She's like, fuck you. So I brought Annie into and the two of them together do they're savages. That's that's the future of female comedy truly and the future of podcasting. Because there's all these like like that's a popular thing. Now, like, guys, we fucked, they're killing it. And then there's the call her daddy that shows killing it like they're on a different vibration than you, Duncan Trussell.

But there's a really popular sort of set. Yeah.

And these two girls together, two hilarious stand up comics talking shit together on a podcast where you guys have to do it.

But they're also like, you got to admit, like they're gonzo, like that Hunter S. Thompson thing, like full Gonzo.

Both of them are like terrifying in their own way, like, you know what I mean? Like when you encounter either have to help them, right.

You have to have to help them do a podcast. Well, what it takes to be Annie and Whitney, because the A's make you find it quicker and the world deserves it.

But like I remember going to do when I was to be Annie and Whitney, when I went to do Annie Letterman's podcast, I won't give anything away. Annie, what happened? I'm not I can't say it. It's not legal. But like I remember, like.

Leaving there being like. Wow. Holy shit, like I remember leaving there just thinking, like not just that and whatever I'm saying right now, I'm saying like realizing like. I've always loved chatting with Letterman, we have great conversations, but I remember like getting in there where she lived and looking around and realizing like, well, she's formed some kind of cult. I don't know what it is.

She's really funny, man. She's so funny. And like that like just that moment of like, wow, my like you're you're like.

Both of them, well, that is the thing is, is like this acknowledgment, first of all, you your your podcast has a cult following and you've hit this, like, weird place.

And I think you feel very similar to the way I do that when you find someone who's extraordinary, you want to let everybody else know. Exactly. We both have that. Yeah. We all of us have that. Joey has that. Ari has that. Ari is one of the best. If you're Ari's friend and you have a special coming out, Ari will promote the fuck out of you. He's amazing at that. He did it for Joe last.

He's done it for Mark Normand and he's helped get guys on my podcast. And I blow them up because if you're friends with are your friends with me. But we're all like that. Diaz Red bands like that. Tony Hinchcliffe is like that. Everybody will tell you all the people around them that are killing it. And I think that's real important, man. I think it's an important thing to get out there. There's a there's a frequency there's a frequency that we're all sending out.

And it's a frequency of camaraderie, you know, of. It doesn't matter if you're wrong. Sometimes it's just like sometimes you fuck up, like we're all, like, trying to go the right direction.

You know, when we're talking about that dumb sperm that clashes Headsman Alpha sperm, it's just accidentally slides in. That shit is going to happen. That's right. All these things. But we we have to move forward in the spirit of camaraderie.

And this is like the big test. Let's can we for a second just draw. I don't care. It's so cheesy.

And you've heard everyone you talk about the Comedy Store.

Let's just spit it Sicko at the Comedy Store, man, because like for me and this is the truth and like, you know, I was talking to Ari's like, you never I have like, I was going up like twice a week.

But even if I wasn't, he said he never went know for a second because he worked there did. That's how he became.

I know Ari saw me in a really dark period where I was like not showing up for spice. And he rightfully judges me for that. But like, it's OK.

I guess that when you were living with me, that was after I was living with you. I went through a dark period. I didn't take I took it for granted. And I deserve no, but whatever.

It's just always been complicated. That's it's not. It's not. You're complicated, you know. Yeah. I was having a conversation with someone and they were saying, like, it's OK to have a loose chassy, but you got to stay on the road.

Yeah, I try to stay on the road, man. But I love the Comedy Store. I love with all my heart, too.

When when you and I became friends, we should tell people you and I became friends because I would call into the Comedy Store and say, Hey, I'm here Thursday, Friday and Saturday. Would you be like, cool, man? Hey, did you fucking see this thing? Yeah. This thing is happening in Nepal where all these people are getting together. They are seeing this like we had this crazy conversation to go out for hours. You put me on hold, you would take another call and then we would talk about fucking Terence McKenna.

Yeah. And Graham Hancock, the best dude we had. We would get baked on the phone where Duncan Trussell was a comedy store employee. And I was I was at home and we were get high and we to start talking about Ali, it was the best show. So it was the best. That place is a temple for real, dude.

But you and I became pen like phone pals.

We that's how we got to be friends and like we are right now. The funny thing is the conversation we're having is no different than the conversation we had when I was working there.

But I was saying to Jamie, when you left, I went to pay the people bring things out of people. And it's something that I don't think people like to admit. But sometimes people bring bad things out of people and sometimes people bring good things out of people. And when I'm with you, I'm different than when I'm not with you.

Yeah, man, I like I really don't want this conversation to end. Like, I'm not going to get all sappy. You fly to Austin occasionally anytime you want, man. I'll come on. You come anytime you want, but it won't to me.

It's like this is my solution to all this. I'm going to fly people out and put them up and pay for their food and it'll be great getting massages.

It'll be great man.

But like all that being said, like, we just I just don't I don't think anyone can understand what it's like unless they've been there to get off stage at the Comedy Store.

And you have a good set maybe, but you're working on a joke and you get off stage.

And suddenly Whitney Cummings, he was like a very rightfully successful, brilliantly funny person, stops you and says, hey, what do you think about this addition to your punch line?

You know what I mean?

Like, those moments are so so like so like because in that moment there isn't like a hierarchy like in that moment there isn't like, look, I made like shows for network TV.

One of my proudest moments as a comic. I was at the Improv and this was like two thousand fucking three or something like that. And Louis C.K. sits in the back of the room and takes notes and then we get offstage. And he actually asked me before he goes, do you mind if I watch and, like, give us, like, give you some notes, like, dude, I fucking love that.

Yeah. And then afterwards, he had a bunch of really funny suggestions, I don't remember if I wind up using any of them, but it was just for fun. So fun to hear him. And I talk about like bits and the fact that he would like to sit down and watch these bits.

That's it. That was the that's the.

So to me, like, you know, like I would always tell Aaron, my wife, I always say, like, you know, there's no Comedy Store anywhere else. Like, I want to go.

I want to be don't think it's impossible to make that somewhere else. This is the whole reason why I'm interested in moving in Texas.

I don't believe that we have to be tethered to this machine that makes things that we don't do right. This machine makes music. This machine makes movies, and it makes TV shows. And we don't do any of those things a totally different business.

And I don't think we have to be connected to any sort of legacy entertainment structure.

It doesn't make any sense. And it's just trying to siphon money off of you. Right. It's just like they're not they're missing the point. Like, I want to tell the truth. I don't want to just sell things right. I want I want I want to say what I'm thinking right now, whether it's good or bad or angry or sad or remorseful, I want to be able to say it any time I want to say it.

And this is not acceptable in the regular old school legacy medium that that that people are thinking of is is mainstream media.

And it was mainstream media like 20 years ago or 30 years ago.

But what we're you and I are doing right now is writing on a fucking cave wall compared to what's coming. Well, you and I are doing right now compared to what the fuck is going to happen when Elon Musk starts producing this whole neural link. Yeah, yeah. And then they develop some sort of fucking satellite network where everyone's connected and reading each other's minds all over the globe.

Dude, this is cave wall scratch tickets.

Bullshit. I know.

Playing tic tac toe by the fire. But this is what this is to me.

Like the poignant thing about like Neolithic structures is like you see the Neolithic structure and, you know, like, fuck man.

People spent a long time building that.

And in this in the process of building that, they became friends and they shared stories. It was really beautiful. But now all we see is some old eroded shit that we don't know anything about.

Right. Yeah. So to me, what's beautiful is like you are absolutely right.

This thing we're doing right now, it's it doesn't matter.

What we're doing is like Morse code. It's going to be it doesn't matter if it's a million years, it won't be able years. We won't be that long before our conversations seem dated.

But you know what we're doing also, we're doing the same thing that Beethoven was doing when they were making music at a time where you couldn't record it. She had to write it down.

Yeah, we're doing this some clunky look, if you can imagine if you could listen to the actual orchestra that was playing like Beethoven's Fifth Symphony, that phrase, imagine also being in context crazy, never having heard the Doors, never having heard Hendrix cough.

Yeah. Or never having heard any of that. Only being in that area and sitting in the audience.

Da da da da da da da da da da da da dum da da.

Be crazy that Beethoven's Fifth that I make that up. Jamie, actually, no, no, I got this terrible impression it was like, who am I do, but think about that.

Should be there in the moment when it was first released. Yeah. And no one can record anything. And now you go you want to write it down in some weird way to develop a language for music.

What it was. Yeah. I mean, you could be a bad ass guitarist in 2020 and not have any idea how to read music.

Yeah, that's right. Right, that's right.

You could watch videos and just decide. I'm just going to go full Stevie Ray Vaughan.

Some people don't want to know how to read it. And yeah, they want to be able to just free.

Oh.

What's the earliest recording of that is this hook time play that we would get in trouble so we can't play it.

That is it. That's it. Right. That's Beethoven's Fifth bro. Imagine being alive back then when you never heard any shit like that. Dude, I was sitting in the audience.

Do you remember when notorious big, big, big, big, big, big. You came out with hypnotize. Now, do you remember how old are you?

I don't know, the year I don't know, it seems like ninety five because I was on I was on news radio and I remember driving to work, what, year?

Seven. Ninety seven. Yeah, it's OK. I was on Newsradio from 94 to 99, so I was on Newsradio and I remember driving to work and hearing that going blow this crack through some new level.

Yeah. Boogie, boogie, boogie.

Can't you see sometimes the words they hypnotize me.

Great song I got, but it was just, it was something about it where I was like oh somebody figured out a new level of the video game.

Yeah, of course it did. You don't understand what it was like back then. No Internet. You would see him on MTV with piles of cash. Yeah, there's no accountability.

That's so cool. Like this is the like what.

Like there's a concept in Buddhism which is like if you want to really started yet.

That's so right. Because helicopters and helicopters look at the big man.

Do you know how many fucking amazing songs we missed out on because Biggie and Tupac didn't get together and pot. How fucked up to have a couple of drinks like somebody had them tricked.

They were enemies. Imagine a big man. Tupac was just like me and Stan Hope or like comics.

Yeah, the comics are just like like what the fuck are we? We should love each other. We're the only ones that are like, how many goddamn emcees are there? How many rappers are there? How many stand ups are there. There's so few there. You guys should be so happy.

We can't that's that kind of talk could get you killed because that's the last bastion of the thing that wants to keep us limited. Man.

It's like that's the ideas leaving them, man. I'm telling you, for them, they need to listen up.

I know you want to have control, but sometimes not having control is better.

Like, here's the thing in archery, tell you something about archery is the thing about archery where it's very few people can what they call command shoot.

What that means is when you draw back the bow and you have your finger on the trigger, you just decide when the arrow is going to go. OK, sure.

Most people don't do it that way. And most people who do these big tournaments, like even the Olympics, they teach them to have a surprise release.

It's a psychological trick where you using a certain type of release, where you have your finger on a trigger and you don't push your finger, you just let your back muscles pull it because they're crude muscles or you use what's called a hinge.

We slowly pull in the hands of the arrow goes, we don't know when it's going to go, whereas a trigger, you know exactly where it's going to go.

Well, there's something about knowing exactly where it's going to go. We just fucking it tense up.

It's quick and it's hard. It's hard to keep your mind in order. We just go, especially if you're shooting in a tournament. You're in the Olympics gold medal round.

Yeah. So very few people in the Olympics allow their brain to decide when the shot goes.

Isn't that interesting?

Yeah. Yeah, that's beautiful. I get what you're saying to this. There's the mind of no mind. The ability to get out of your own way. And for Archer is the best way to do this is either in the hinge release or a release with a thumb where you pull through with your back muscles and it makes the thumb so cool.

This thing is dangerous. This thing's dangerous because you develop what's called target panic. And there's people that never like my friend campaigns. He's a freak of nature. He's never developed target panic. And he shoots like this. He sees things, he shoots at him and he shoot 140 yards per Blanchot. But he also runs a marathon a day. He's like a freak of nature. He's a very rare human. But you can't bank it on those people.

You've got to think about the rest of the folks for the rest of the folks. The whole idea is like getting rid of anxiety. And what's anxiety? Anxiety is pulling the trigger. If you're a gold medal round, you have bull's eye. Is it? America wins and you just flinch.

There's just a little thing that happens to you that you don't want to happen and your arrow just goes four inches.

Got it. Got it. I love it. Yeah. That's the.

So that is the still like and I'm sorry every every puck has to do the. I talk about Buddhism but I don't care.

I want you to talk about it. Thank you.

So like what I love about it is like so everybody gets caught up in the first two ideas in Buddhism, the first being life is unsatisfactory, the second being.

The reason life is unsatisfactory is because you think it's a way that is not. Now, this gets translated into let's break that down.

Life is unsatisfactory. And the reason you think life is unsatisfactory is because, well, life.

So the best way to put it would be have you ever been with someone in traffic in L.A. and they're angry. Me, OK, but me.

When have you ever myself. Right, but that's literally the way traffic is in L.A., Yes. Yet somehow, like because you drove that day in traffic, you got in your head, this will be the one day in L.A. where the traffic no, honestly, I keep it together.

But I do. I do. I recognize it's knocking on the door.

So come on, be a bitch. Freak out. Yeah, I really do keep it together.

But that this is also the real argument for microdots in.

Because if you could just microdots, there would be so much less negative interactions with people, whether it's on the highway or sure anywhere, no one's going to know one who's micro dosing on psilocybin is going to yell at you from across the street, put your fucking mask on.

Now, they're not going to do you're going to let them be themselves.

But I want to be I want to be the person that makes people smile. I don't want to be the person that makes people mad.

I don't either. And this is something I consciously thinking about more and more as I get older.

I want I want us to do better. I really do. This is one of the reasons why I have this idea of like starting over in Texas.

I have this idea of like disconnecting from all these old hubs and this idea of what we're doing.

We're putting out content into the world. I don't believe it. I don't believe it has to be from a media center.

I don't believe it has to be from New York or L.A. I don't believe it.

And I want to prove to myself that it doesn't have to. I want to go. One of the reasons why I wanted to go to Texas is because it's like almost like this.

There's a certain mockery to living in Texas, you know, especially for someone like me.

I wouldn't want to be you, like, everything you do is to study. And like I like I like being free of that magnifying glass.

But, you know, to me, like, whenever I'm thinking about, like, you know, it's fun to think about what's the root problem.

At the root problem seems to be centralization. It's like wherever centralization rears its head, problems emerge.

The root problem is compassion. What do you mean? The root problem is compassion, that we don't make our decisions based on compassion. We make them based on beneficial markers of improvement, whether it's financial improvement or land grabs or that's the problem.

The problem is that we we have these things in our head where this is what's the most important and this is what's not as important. Like love is important. But if you see two people that are you know, they're in love, but you don't like either one of them, do you feel like that's the same kind of love as triangle you admire? They're together. Yeah, right. How many people who do you know like. All right, I'll give you one.

I do. Laird Hamilton and Gabrielle Reece. I'm friends with those two people. They're superathletes. She was a super athlete in volleyball. And he's like one of the greatest big wave surfers the world's ever known.

Yeah, I'm friends with them.

And when I talk to them, if I talk to them either on like we do a little we do a little face time the other day and I get out of it, I go that I want to be somebody who makes me feel or I want to be somebody who makes somebody feel the way I feel when I talk to them. That's cool. When I talk to those people, I'm like, these are superior people like Laird Hamilton is a weird dude, but he's also like a superior human who does these crazy pull workouts like seventy pound dumbbells.

He gets in the fucking sauna two hundred fifty degrees and rides an aerodyne bike with oven mitts on Jesus. Yeah, they're freaks.

He wears oven mitts because it burns his hand has ten fifteen two five zero. You it's a boy. He was like I got to put out of the middle but he doesn't get out of the sauna.

And I said to myself when I got off the phone with them the other day. They're really nice people, they're really, really they're genuine people, and this is one of the things that happens and it's a weird thing that happens when you become more and more famous. You get more and more comfortable talking to other famous people.

You know, you talk to talk to famous people and you realize, oh, they have a hard time talking to people because other people think they're weird. Yeah. So they have to find famous people that are also nice. Right. And so that's how I feel about them.

So I get off the phone with them and I'm like, oh, you can be you could be Gabrielle Laureys and you can be Laird Hamilton and still come out and be a really cool, friendly, inspirational, genuine person. Yeah, I'm like, I want to make somebody else feel the way those people make me feel. Yeah. And that's what I felt like.

I love that. That's the best thing we can do for each other. That's the answer that's that gives if anything has ever come out as podcast has been good. It's that it's given people a perspective where there's a potential, where maybe their limited ideas of what they're capable of in terms of their own personal happiness or their own success or whatever their chosen endeavor is. Maybe it's not really limited. Maybe they can just shift their consciousness and through effort and focus, they can change their destiny.

Yeah, maybe it's true.

Well, you know, the reason I say centralization is because, like the first in a very natural reaction to being associated with a body would be that you would centralize on the identity that you're in.

You know, if I step on your if I stomp on your foot, you're going to feel pain. Yeah. So why wouldn't you centralize on this identity that you're in? So and again, like right now, the science we have, it can't show us.

Well, I think it will eventually show that our sentience isn't limited to the body, that we're a field of consciousness that's kind of getting associated with like particular like quantum clouds of meat that we found.

They interface with other sentient bodies in a way that makes them unique to the relationship between that person like that. You're different with your wife than you are with anybody you've ever met that that is true.

Yes. But that's also like one of the great like right now, one of the big ideas.

Such a cool idea, too, is like on stage. Off stage.

So how are you acting when you think you're on stage?

In other words, like when you're in front of like this is the best part about covid. There's no on stage and exactly. That's bad, but it's the only good thing about it for me. Well, there's actually said I'll tell you some other great things about covert. It taught us that that we can telecommute and businesses still work and that transforms the landscape.

But like the the on stage off stage idea or the way like choky, whichever image puts it, is some people at the end of the day, they go home and they sit on the couch and they go.

But they only let themselves do that at the very end of the day of work, because they produced in their mind a situation where this is me relaxing and this is me working right here I am with my family. Here I am with my coworkers here I.

So this differentiation produces a kind of neurotic, kind of like split personality way of being, which is like really all those you don't need to wait to get home, to sit on the couch to go, ha ha, that's where you're at now.

Like that's actually every single thing. But the story you're telling yourself produces moments where this is a relaxing time and this is a non relaxing time, but it's just a story.

So that that's the idea. And my compassion is like, I think the beginning of recognizing, like, you know, how many people have you met?

I'm sure and I know my life changed when I went to the doctor with my swollen fucking testicle.

That, by the way, before I went to the doctor, I would look at myself in the mirror and think, man, if there was some magical, I would feel like it felt good to have a big ball.

There was like I literally was like, God damn it, if you are happy, you are the one big boy. I looked powerful. I'm not going to lie, man. I've ever seen Jose Diaz-Balart. Yeah, like that. Like the way preposterous. He feels like that every day. They don't even make sense. So like for a few months Jamie, you seen Joey's balls. See if he can pull up the picture.

Joey on stage where he's naked with with a he had a show.

I know. I know. But just for me, he had a safety pin and a towel around his neck like a cape. And this is for my nineteen ninety nine Warner Brothers CD called I'm Going to Be Dead Someday, which is these crazy pictures in the main room of the Comedy Store. I was there. You were there for the Matador outfit.

I was like there was some drama for that. You guys snuck in and take the pictures. Were you working? You was a talent coordinator.

You guys snuck in, took the pictures. You don't. We didn't snuck in. We had a we talked to whoever the fuck it was. It was me.

Was it Scottie or ThomasA? I feel like I was there when I have. I could be wrong, but I remember the matador pictures. Warner Brothers did it. Maybe a mermaid calls nude. I remember that a door picture was real.

I'm sorry, but I remember a moment that I was I think I was a talent coordinator where suddenly, Joey, there's pictures of Joey Diaz in a matador outfit. There's a bunch of seen, but Mitzi got wind of it. That's what I remember, is there was some drama around the situation.

Like the pictures themselves were like not just funny. They were like kind of artistic. They look cool.

There's a picture of Joey and he please someone find this.

It's in I think I have the CD, so I have it. If it's on the sea, it's on the CD.

So I have it because, you know, when I'm moving, I'm going through my shit. And one of the things I found is those old I'm going to be dead some day CDs. That's ninety nine.

I became Joey Diaz, associate and best friend around ninety six. That's when I met them.

So like I could be nine when I was there. I just remember are some you know, you might have been there if you were there in ninety nine I. When did you start working. I don't remember, I don't remember the exact day and again like I don't remember, I just remember there was some drama that was before your time man.

I to feel like it's before your time dude.

It could easily be that Mizzi caught wind of the pictures late or something, you know, like it could easily. I just remember there was some drama attached to that to the lady was so nice to me. She loved you man. She loved Joey too.

She loved you, all of us. She had the the funnest thing with, like, her idea of us together. She loved that we were together, that we were friends.

She was a while. She was a wild lady. She was wild. That was a real girl. Like Mitzi Shore was the actual guru. Yeah. Yeah, man.

I tell everybody, if there's one human being that's the most important human being in comedy ever. That wasn't a comedian. It's Mizzi. Sure.

That's why she's on the wall of this room. She was like taking her with me, man. Not only that, the movers don't take her.

I take her mix's come with me on the plane.

Yeah, man, she was real. Listen, that's coming with me on the plane. No bullshit. Yeah. Like the reason why that's up on the wall after the movers have gone is that's coming with me.

Yeah, it's Mitzy. Yeah.

She gave me my my future now she was wow. She was a she was a crazy lady.

She's a perfect person to run the Comedy Store. Well, no, she had to be that way.

You know, you can't you can't have if you go through these photos in the album where you can see Joey with his with the Cape, he had this, I find.

Oh, God damn. I know. I can I know I have it. I know I have it somewhere. I'll find it. Someone on my folder. It was dinner when you walk into our house. Joey Diaz, Cape Ball's looking, you know you know, it was in our house on Doheny when you walk into our house, know that.

So on our house, when you walk in, the first thing you see is what you call it when people. So when they make art with crochet a crocheted. Picture it on it, it said, dying is easy, comedy is hard. Thing you said. Yeah, yeah.

It like it is true and like that was what beautiful about her is. She understood how hard comedy was. I told you the story of her getting robbed or I told you that story with stories on Tell Me, like here's how cool she was.

And I can't remember the name of the comic, but she was giving him spots, I can't read the name of the comic. This is in the URL is better you don't see, but I don't say so.

This motherfucker needed money and he robbed the van.

She was in the like apparently he like at gunpoint, took the cash earnings of the of the club.

At gunpoint, they took the money from her and she knew who it was. Somehow she could tell somehow from the mask didn't do good. She is new, right? And I remember her saying, like, yeah, he he robbed me at gunpoint wi fi me.

But he that was her. But that was her.

Like, can you imagine, like, if you really think about it, you get robbed at gunpoint by a comedian and you still give him stage time.

What the fuck is that? Well, that's that's good. That's a good that's not a that's not a normal person anymore. That becomes like that.

I've never had that sort of a relationship with any human ever. You know, I sought her out when I was living in Boston. Really?

Yeah.

You knew about her, dude, when I was an open mycar, OK? I had gotten obsessed with comedy for six months before I could ever do it open mic night because I erroneously assumed that you had to be twenty one to be able to get on stage.

Turns out you can be younger, you just can't drink. I watch you, but you can be a 19 year old do standup. I didn't know. So August 27th. Nineteen eighty eight. When I turned 21, I went on stage and when I went on stage, I remember thinking.

I remember, like, really clearly thinking, like, how weird is this job? There's a there's a bunch of people out there. They can just talk. And they can make a living. Yeah, how weird is this job? What did you think the first time you ever went on stage and you talked into a microphone?

Hello. Hi, my name is Duncan Trussell.

So weird. Like, when you look back at those times, like how do you feel, you feel like it's not even you. I met that lady when I met Mitzi Shore, I'm sure past me at the Comedy Store.

I remember thinking when I was in nineteen eighty eight in Boston, there was this Mecca.

It was this place you had to go where Richard Pryor filmed live, the Sunset Strip and Sam Kinison used to stand up and fucking Howie Mandel went up and Rodney Dangerfield and David Letterman. Yeah. God damn. I got to get to the Comedy Store.

That's all they wanted to do. I didn't want to get anywhere else. There was one part of me that wanted to go to Houston because I had heard that, like Sam Kinison did these wild shows in Houston. I want to go to Houston.

But the big thing for me was I got to get to the store.

And when I got passed by that lady, dude, you know, it's one of the reasons why I feel so compelled to help people on this podcast, because I feel like when that lady passed me, I was like, holy shit.

Like I'm a real comedian now. Like, I don't have to be scared. I just have to keep working. Yeah, I got passed. Yeah. By the godmother. The real godmother. Yeah.

Like you work for that lady. That's right.

You were there all the time and I know she back, she made us she she created an environment that accelerated comedy.

Yeah man.

She pushed comedy because she kept it together but like at the fucking highest are like nine thousand RPM's of the engines. Gompert she kept it together. You she left these comics to be wild. You remember when Ari slapped Bobby Lee?

Of course I remember. You know, that's when he started getting spots.

Now, is that true? Yeah. You know, I know because I was jealous. I was talking to Ari like I remember Ari's gradually unraveling into his comedic self. And like I remember like Ari Max, Bobby Lee, there's a fight between our and Bobby Lee.

And I remember as the talent coordinator, that was when Mizzi he's now a comic somewhere in that like in that like throwing off of rationality and that I don't know what it was, man.

Like, you know, the here's the most important part of Mizzi. She was a woman. She was a woman and she encouraged chaos. She wasn't even remotely concerned with safety. She wanted wild people may know what to do. She wanted me to be wild. That's what she wanted. She wanted wild comedy. She wanted Kinnison, she wanted Pryor.

She wanted everyone that came in between Damon Wayans, the man she wanted. She wanted wild. She wanted Martin Lawrence. She wanted wild. She wanted yeah.

She wasn't a match was feral, but she was a feral lady. She was a human. I mean, what we call human now, people think of as feral or what people. I mean. I mean but when I say feral, I mean. I know you mean exceptional.

She was wild. She didn't have anybody else's rules holding them back.

No, she didn't. And she didn't fucking care. She didn't care.

She didn't care about fuck you. That's the most important thing about her is like having a club on the Sunset Strip and not making decisions based on money. Because let me tell you, man is a talent coordinator.

There are plenty of times where people wanted to film some shit in the main room where they wanted to pay a lot of money. And she was like, nah, I'll get it.

Now, Tom, we should talk about that, because that was like one of the things about that club that, like, you could never film anything.

No, that was one of the most amazing things about Ari filming his special there.

It was a really cool thing he did. It was also like an acknowledgement that the world had changed. And that was one of the reasons why I was willing to come back because Ari filmed his shit in the OAH.

Well, she would have I really do believe she would have approved that eventually.

But somebody would have got involved. They would have fucked it up.

She would have made him jump through some hoops. It wouldn't have been that easy, like she would have made him do some crazy. And he's right. Here's the thing. She's right. You know, I didn't I didn't catch any of my checks. You probably know that. Oh, I remember.

I don't like when I was working in the store. I just wouldn't cash my checks. And then they would go, hey, we have, like, all this money that you I just, like, can't donate it to the sound system you bought. The sound system did that, too, but that was that was extra that was on top of that because the system was fucking up and then you bought it. And honestly, Mitzy didn't want you to do that because like, that was the thing.

Like she was smart enough to know if I let a comedian by the sound system, I can't.

Like, honestly, give them spots like so I knew that was the case, but I was like, at this point she's giving me spots every fucking weekend. I just want to help out. Let's not stop playing games like, come on, you know what I'm doing? I'm out here doing my best. And if I can, we got a fucked up speaker system. Let's fix it.

I put a DAT system in there, put a disk and have it set up. So anybody feel like if you had a mini disk, remember the MiniDisc days?

Of course, Judy was so important before smartphones to be able to record your shows.

Yeah, it's so big and you don't record and listen to all of them.

But the option to be able to do that is so huge. Even if you're not diligent, you still gain like 10, 20 percent of like a tightening of your act.

Dude, the Comedy Store at that time, for lack of a better word, was an art cult. Yeah, that's what it was.

It was a cult and like it was a cult that was like for sure, like all cult systems, they're based on like a strong, charismatic central lead that was Mizzi people watched as a man I was happy to relent to.

Well, he's a saint, but there was a thing for me as like this macho man. It was important. It was important to relent. Mincy you had to.

But it wasn't just that I had to I wanted to to show respect the show that I got it to show that I know what you did. Yeah, man.

Like that lady man. When I was in fucking Boston in 88, I would hear about her.

She will come as one lady to this like she was married to a comedian, but it didn't work out. And she's polishers. Mom and I would hear these stories. I'd be like, that's crazy. This one lady just figured it out.

She was wild and she'd like to party and she like man. And she's just a wild lady.

But she was brutal with you. She didn't like your comedy.

She was just tell you you were done. She would just tell you that you aren't funny. Sure, dude.

She put her hand on my wrist. She goes, You're really funny.

And I'll never forget that I was in 1994, I was like, oh, my God.

Well, she wouldn't hand that out lightly, man. That was the thing is like she was like that.

I've been around it like so it's so I'm so lucky because I got to be around like Ramdas of Mitzi Shore and like they're similar in a way similar that there's a there's a lot of different.

You don't like this idea of what we think of as prospekt proselytization.

Yeah.

Dude, nobody was in four when I was six years in the comedy. Her putting your hand on my wrist and telling me I'm really funny changed my life.

Look, to me the thing that like.

We'll never be captured is that it's not just that here you have this like tiny woman who is tiny, tiny, but it's not just that you have this being so careful.

When I would hug her. You remember hugging Missy?

Yeah. Yeah. Well, she was a gangster. I mean, that was all like the thing about Mizzi was like, no, I imagine like the best thing to think of is like think of you most like outlaw comedian.

Then imagine a person who built a saloon within which those comedians could be grown to be more of an outlaw.

There was no Kinnison without much. Sure, that's right.

But then the most to me, like with Mizzi, if you were to and she would never allow that. She'd already if she heard me saying any of this shit if I get fired.

But like, if you were going to write a Mizzi Bible and you wanted to like, base the whole Bible on one thing, it was something she told me so many times as a talent coordinator and I like to fantasize.

She thought I was funny, but as a talent coordinator, something she told me over and over and over again regarding comedians was.

You don't need them. They need you.

That was her core thing, which is like the moment that a comedian starts thinking that they need this system, then they degrade themselves.

They have to understand that their comedic ability and who they are is that persona, which she would say is like their iconoclasts.

She meant like, you're not going to find anyone like this ever again. And that's what she was trying to find.

You would say, therefore, you it's supply and demand, which is like there is nothing like you, but there's a lot of things like them.

So if you think that you need them, you will degrade yourself as an artist. That was her main core truth, which is don't get caught up in the thing you're going to try to teach you, which is you need them. You don't need the manager. You don't need agent. You don't need the studio. You don't need anything because you are funny.

You are the fucking nuclear isotope generating energy. And if you get lost in this insanity that you require the system to be great. Not only do you grade yourself, you degrade an art.

But, you know, this is one of the things about recognizing what Mitzi Shore did and a lot of Budd Friedman. A lot of people own clubs. Rodney Dangerfield. Yeah.

Is it's not just about the ideas and getting the ideas out in a way, the audience can digest it, setting up a club.

It's bringing people in that setting a standard where people know, hey, man, David Letterman came out of here. Robin Williams came out of here. Yeah, OK. Bill Hicks came out. Bill Hicks was a fucking doorman here. Sam Kinison came out of here. OK, yeah.

This is the motherfucking Comedy Store.

Yeah, there's a standard. Yeah, that's a factor. Two men.

You can't let the artists completely be in control because one charismatic artist with a lot of fucking song and dance moves can trick people into thinking things that aren't necessarily accurate because of charisma.

That's true, man. Like that. She figured that out though. Yeah. And we need another one to her.

I mean, like the thing never going to get another mizzi, but we can carry on her legacy.

We all learned from her, you know, and I think she was uniquely qualified. To run the Comedy Store because she wasn't a comic, she had no desire to be a comic, but she was married to a comic and she knew exactly what comics were. Her son was a comic. Yeah, she knew exactly what comics were. And she wasn't stupid. She was smart. And she was she but she also didn't give a fuck like this are rare group of people that legitimately don't give a fuck.

Mitzi Shore was alive today. If we could somehow or another, like, go back in time and grab Mitzi Shore from 1974 and bring her 20 20, she she would just be running shit. She'd be ready. First of all, she would have a hundred girls under contract for like only fans accounts.

She would just run people.

I'll tell you the one part that part's not true. The only fans, the only fans think it's conjecture. But I'll tell you, the ones have a problem with only fans.

The porn site, it's not a porn site, though.

It's like girls can do whatever they want. I don't have a problem with sex like I like, I have a problem with my own inability to, like, regulate my desire to come, but like, I can't get mad at the world for that.

Like, that's kind the conversation with someone, with someone.

And they were saying, well, also, she has an only fansite like, hmm, if I had big tits, I'd be like, get paid for those because I'm so tired of these sex negative fucks man ramped up and the lockdown.

No, because it became of course it should. Easy job. Yes. Listen to people.

If I was twenty two and had big tits and I like to do squats and I was sitting around thinking, do I, do I want to work at Burger King or do I want to shake my ass for ten bucks a month for thirty five thousand guys.

Yeah. It doesn't have to just be that though either.

It's not just a porn site. You can do whatever it's Patreon for right now.

This is madness. So where you could just do yoga. But Joe.

And like a dimension where like being funny is getting people to come, you be like it's hot porn star. That's it.

It's just that's a weird one, right? Like getting people to come. It's so specific. It's what's the big deal. It doesn't matter. Shouldn't be a big deal.

But yet it is like if you find out that somebody came, it's not a big deal. It shouldn't be. But it is.

It is right now because we're lunatics like we hate life like we're exactly. Yeah.

We're or so death centric that like the anything that's the source of life, which is a handjob, a blowjob fucking we look at that is like being depraved, you know.

Well it's really just some sort of weird Kanyon ladder in between two fucking clift's between this and what is going to be available for people in just a few years.

There's going to be virtual sex. You've got to have Riley read on, man. She's so great. Like, I can't have her on and I'll take my pants off.

What I'm going to do is, oh, she's so funny. She goes on this. This is the future. Goggles put goggles on. You laid back. You're in another world. Well, yeah, I mean, that's heavy, but like.

But is it. Yes or no, what's wrong with coming, because there's one percent of your brain that knows it's bullshit. Why is no real girl and they don't really like you in your jokes suck and you kind of smell and you didn't brush your teeth that good? Yeah, yeah.

But she's like, I like that part of, you know, the girl. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. It's the girl really did love that part of you.

That would be extraordinary. See, that's the beauty of alcohol.

Alcohol is you're hanging out with a girl who's got to like Hello Kitty tattoo in between your thumb and forefinger and you guys are drinking. You have a good time and you're like, I love you. And she's like, I love you too. And you just give each other a hug.

It doesn't even have to be sexual. That's where alcohol comes in. Where, where, what do you mean, what do you mean? I'm following you in the eye. The Hello Kitty, the where does alcohol covid that's where alcohol comes in.

And like, it allows you to take chances and hope that the other person doesn't have ulterior motives. Right. When you both release your ambitions and let's go to Vegas and get married, I don't even know you. Let's go crazy.

How crazy do we think fucking is bad?

It's not that we think fucking bad is that we worry you fuck too many people.

Why? Why is that a trick? Too many times you're like one of those people at one of those David Blaine street shows you like.

It's got to be the queen of hearts. Trust me. Isn't that wild? It's like it's the great it's one of the great things. It really is one of the great things. Like think of like any time.

Like, you know why? Why?

Because we're concentrated more on innovation and progress in terms of numbers like Sauniere, but earning money.

And getting new projects passed through, they take precedence over everything else, so I think it's weird, but it's just it's a weird game. This is what I'm getting out of this book irresistible. So there's things that we have in our head where we're.

We have these. They're wrong. We have these ideas of what we need, right, in order to be sufficiently, here's we're operating from the wrong principles.

I'm sorry, Joe, I got to pee.

I've been holding for, like, ten minutes. I'm sorry. I don't want it to end, ma'am. We don't have to end go. This is the first show ever on Spotify.

I can't believe I get to be here. I got to go. I looked on your your go pee, go pee. I wasn't even a Jesus. Go pee. No voting.

There's no voting. That isn't funny.

I wasn't even in the voting. Duncan Trussell. I wanted you to be guest number one, it's important. Yes, number two. Miley Cyrus. That's right. Number two, that's what I said. I said yes no to. You don't even listen, we're like an old married couple. Jamie, I said guest number two, I'm drunk, I'm high guest number twos, Miley Cyrus, guest number three, Mike motherfucking Tyson.

How about that?

Jamie, are you concerned at all about moving to Texas? That's what I like about you. It's one of many things. But you ready to roll, like I should just tell the people at home I brought it up. Jamie, I'm like, I'm thinking about moving to Texas.

Jamie goes. OK. Is that accurate? I mean, that's going to happen. Something is coming from change.

What did you think it was going to happen? What was the worst case scenario like Montana? I don't know. I didn't think that was going to. I just didn't want you to not want to do it. I wasn't worried about it. Good, happy. There's a you know. It's hard like I'm for a long that I'm not prolonging anything. This is for Jamie. I just had a love fest. That's great.

I was like I was asking Jamie if there's ever a time where I was telling them we're moving to Texas where he was like, oh, I want to do that.

I was like, no. But when I brought it up, I'm like, what do you think is OK? Like, that's cool.

I do feel like I'm stretching it out. It's like a main man. This is the first episode on Spotify.

I was supposed to be you. I love you. It's beautiful. But also there's a piece of me that I think you can work things out together. I really do. I think you and me together have a unique perspective. And I'm not bullshit. I agree. And I don't think it's I'm not taking ownership. And you shouldn't either. It's the two of us together. I know there's a weird thing that happens. I feel it, man.

Like, look, it's my favorite thing, which is why I don't want it to end, which is why I'm like I like to like, look, man, I'm a Buddhist.

I know I'm going to die.

What does that mean, though, when you say you're a Buddhist, shouldn't we have a new thing? You said like communism. I love it. Yeah, I love can we have a new one?

I think we can. But I do want to like the reason I'm going to speak up for Buddhism in general. And I agree with you and what I love about Buddhism so much is that man.

What's great about it is it invites you to reject it.

It says to you the first part of it is like reject this if you can, like if you can find a flaw in the thing, reject it. And also if you can find a legitimate rejection, then we will add that to the like.

What would happen to Buddhism? Yes. So that's what I love about it, because it's more of a process that's that's perfect. Yeah, it's perfect. And it has to be that way.

It has to be that way. But they're thinking about how to progress with ideas.

Yeah, man, you have to be able to say, hey, bring me a counter idea that makes more sense and I'll reconsider it.

But it's what we were talking about earlier. People are married to their God damn idea. It's sad. It's it's it's not just sad.

It is sad for sure. But it's also it's bad for all of us. And it's one of those things that we should recognize, just like, you know, like negative feedback, like, oh, I'm so fat, I'm such a fucking loser.

Everybody admits that that is not good for you and it actually hinders process. Yeah.

Progress. I think that it hinders progress as well.

I think we have to look at things in a more positive way.

That's so weird. Dude, I like it. I was there's this teacher, Jack Kornfield. He's so smart. He's a Buddhist teacher. And I remember like in the early days of the Ramdas retreats, I do these podcasts of them and I remember being like, I want to get in shape.

I feel like I'm fat. And what he said to me was getting shape because you love yourself, not because you hate yourself.

You don't get in shape because because you are angry and who you are right now get in shape because you think you deserve to be in shape.

That's cute. That sounds like that. You listen to me. Plus a hi piece. That competition's real motherfucker. Sometimes you just got to get in shape because you don't look at fat shaming works. This is people don't like to admit that that shame makes you fucking lose weight. You don't want to feel bad and you feel good because you lost on the weight.

I have to stick up for Jack Kornfield because he is one of the great teachers.

Stick up for him, too. And you would love him and you would you would love him if he's friends with you. I love him. Thank you, Joe. But I do have to stick up for him. But just just like an example of how bad ass this person is to move to Texas. Oh, no, I can't.

I'm going. I'm not sure. I don't want to be low. I have an idea. I think you and I together can fix a lot of shit. What's the plan, man?

You and me do like a weekly podcast, one a week. Joan Duncan, I love it live from Austin. I love it. But it's not going to happen in Austin. Why not?

Well, zoom for a while to come to your senses and we'll do it off camera, this conversation. I love this conversation, though. Listen, man, do not bullshit.

I am not bullshitting. I would do just about anything for you, Joe. I would do just about anything for you. I know you would. I would.

Now, look, I got to stick up for this teacher, though, and I'm sorry that we can zoom it. Hold on. What teacher Jack Kornfield show and this guy.

Yeah. I love you, man. I love you.

But you got to understand, this is like a person is deeply impacting me and and like he was a monk and I know him as a friend and like, he's a monk, OK, in the sense that he went, here's what's cool about him.

He went to he became a monastic, terrified and Buddhist.

And he like took a vow of silence for like two years. So for two years he didn't talk.

Is it possible he didn't have anything good to say?

Oh, no, no. Now, Jack Kornfield. Look, I really like he really like I'm sorry.

I don't mean to be sentimental. I'm joking. I know you're joking when you die. He's alive, Jack. Sorry, sorry, sorry. You said sentimental.

I panicked. I mean, sentimental only in that like, I wouldn't want to do anything that was like negatively impact, like a real.

We get him on a show first. Come on. Show you me and Jack Kornfield.

You would love it. You love that first episode that convinces you to move to Austin, Texas. I would. I would come to Austin, Texas. Did you move, Jack?

Now, what about your house? Would you live in it?

Joe, I love that you would buy me a house, but I wouldn't move high is like, what are the cool things about us is you could say, I will buy you a house. That's not why I would want to be with you for the house or. I know.

I know, man. And I understand. But like for me, it's like I was off camera. I will talk to you about the reason we made the decision.

Oh, this is we made an amazing decision. Yeah. Your decision is way better than mine.

But I don't I'm jealous. I don't want to be local. Like, to me, like, get it to a zoom show. Let's do it zoom show or listen, you and I have no idea for so long we could do both or either.

Exactly.

We could do zoom shows. That's what I think you do live shows. I just think like the right now, the best thing for the world is not to imagine that you have to be in any given GPS coordinate.

I think that, yeah, the best thing for the world is to begin to realize, like, we don't need to be tethered to a a particular locality.

Like this is the problem. It's like it's it's a bit of a problem. But it's also in recognizing that it is an actual like it's a thing that you factor into the world that you see.

But how relevant is it to day to day operation?

Right. That's what I'm talking about.

That's that to me, like the gift of covid has been like people have begun to realize, like your circle small Google is doing fine and no one's going to Google to go to work.

Twitter's doing fine. No one's going to the Twitter building to work naphthalene.

They they have jobs due to people are all working remotely.

No one's going to Netflix. Oh.

What you're saying is that the businesses are doing well, but no one's going to the the actual business they have to.

Why do they have to exactly do that? That to me that is the if you want to like start really like restructuring society, let's start with a superstition that you need to be in like like proximity of another person's body.

God damn. That kills New York City. Yeah, it kills L.A., too. It kills L.A.. It kills L.A.. I want you to come to Austin, dude.

I will be it whenever you want. I'll come to Austin, talk. No, baby, he would.

I can't wait for you to meet before I see. So brilliant. But but my point is.

Look, man, my point is like we can't be centralized. Like, look, you're going to be in Austin. I'm going to be in a certain place.

I don't want to say, yeah, it's a bunker outside of Nevada. Yeah. Somewhere near Barstow or the bats take over.

We're going to fight against centralization so that we don't have to get chain to shitty cities like that's. The whole point is like, look, if anything happens after covid, that's beautiful. It will be that all the commuters say to their bosses, wait a minute, for the last six months, I've been zooming in for these fucking conferences and your business is doing just as well as it did when I was driving an hour to get there an hour back.

And then the moment that happens, we break the back of addiction to being in a metropolis. Now we have a global society. Now, it's not just that you have to have some person who's like living in an Angelino.

It's like you could have someone from any part of the planet, centralisation seems to be the fundamental problem in the sense that it was it worked. We needed a centralized prior to the Internet, but now we don't need a centralized.

No one better for everybody if we take into account every idea. It's better for everybody if we take into account all the dumb ideas and smart ideas and let them battle it out.

Yeah, let's find out who's right.

Yeah, and you got to be real careful. People who think that they're right and other people are wrong. It's what we were talking about earlier that bums me out the most about the Democratic convention. Is it I would just like to forget about whatever you don't like about Trump. Tell me what you're going to do right.

Tell me how bad the orange man is. Tell you what you're gonna do. Yeah.

How are you going to fix it? How are you going to fix it?

Yeah. What are you going to do. We can do about Flint, Michigan's water. What are you going to do about the fucking earth is heating up. What are you going to do about.

You know, fish. Where's the fish? Right. What are you gonna do?

Yeah, nobody has an idea. They just want to talk shit and make sure everybody's trans. I would rather them talk shit and make sure everyone's trans.

Then be like, what's happening now is don't mean that trans people am with you.

I know you're here's what's funny to me about your whole, like, push back against the trans community.

It's not it's only push back against trans people competing as females and fighting. That's it.

But other athletics a little bit, but fighting in a big way to me, the part of it that's like interesting is I know you well enough to know that if you prove me wrong here, but if there was a technology that will turn a guy into a woman, no, they could not just turn a guy in a woman, which is very funny, because right now that's what we're doing.

And it makes sense because it's like right now what we know is men and women. Right? So that's where we're at. So right now, as far as our understanding of what can a human be, if you want to break it into a binary, we've got men and women.

Right. But that's pretty limited to me either way. And I get wanting to be a woman. And I think that you, Joe Rogan, if there was a technology, they could instantly turn you into a woman.

Yeah. You wouldn't hesitate to turn.

I'd like to feel a dick inside me. Yeah, exactly. That's what I'm saying as a woman. Yeah. And I don't think you know exactly.

Doesn't make you trust me. Someone is how many dicks inside of them. It does make you just kidding.

Well you could be a woman and actually be attracted to a male for eighteen hours.

Yeah. You're in love. You imagine it in a sack.

Imagine if you have an Oculus Rift and yeah. They make you go through a bunch of waivers and they say, Duncan, if you do.

Take the next sign. What happens is you become a woman who actually feels the way a woman feels when she's attractive to a man and a guy with a dick like a battering ram.

Let me try. She's going to send it home, see what happened. You can't wait. You want to feel him come inside your upper rib cavity.

I want to feel it for her. Set me up. Yeah, who cares?

The point is, like, it's not a man.

The weakest among us would be scared of that experience. Right? Well, you'd be scared that that experience weakens them and turns them into something that they they they dismiss.

But how will they decide it? Sorry, Joe. No, no. It's their own issue.

No, it's the experience that literally made them exist on the planet. They feel like if they were to feel it, it would be something against who they are, which is insanity.

And this is a very the very feeling of a cock blowing come inside your body, you sweet spot.

That's what women imagine is the only way a woman was willing to marry you is if you become the wife and she becomes the husband and you switch consciousness.

You, Duncan, I love you. I love you too, Priscilla. I want to know what it feels like to be you. Yeah, I want to be with you. Yeah, but I want I want to be you for four years.

Yeah. That's what I is. Four year contract. Yeah.

For all of your secrets, get downloaded into your wife's brain. That's what he wants.

That's not a secret. Imagine, though. That no, that's the idea is like the point is like right now we're like terrestrial eyes, like like the reason we're hanging out on planet Earth is not because we decided to be here or hang out on planet Earth because there's not other planets that we could fly to.

But if we could, we haven't figured this one out yet. Right. But slow down. If there were other planets and we could get there.

Trust me, this is what's funny to me about like Lindsey Graham. I loved ones like Graham. He's such a fucking asshole. But I feel for I feel weird connection to him. He's such a fucking asshole.

But like Lindsey Graham, I have the feeling that if suddenly there was like the ability to travel through space, he would leave the planet within seconds, you would just be gone.

But Lindsey Graham was like, here's wife, like a religious guy.

No, he's a politician. Lindsey Graham is just like like piggish religion.

Now he's like poor Lindsey Graham and he's like he like that is a weak chin.

I have a weak fucking chin. Yeah. It's like, don't I shave my beard? No, listen, brother.

God, now, Lindsey Graham. Look, I know Lindsey Graham you like, got sucked into a dark vortex. He's a sweetheart underneath it all.

And also he's like he's like a gay dude, you know, he's like a gay dudes like us.

But what I'm saying is, like you said, what is gay dude has like Lindsey Graham causes problems because like do that what he like is he's a he's a suppressive being that like he's like aligns with it now, not a closeted thing.

It's not a gay dude isn't the part of the it doesn't matter if Lindsey Graham's gay son say you brought it up.

So must matter. Know what I'm saying is like his shit came out about him being gay and like then he had to fight it or like there was like something I felt bad for it in that regard.

I feel bad about it.

Don't you think for him, even like it would be if he just said gay. Yeah.

Or I'm not. Like, that's that's the argument against these two ideas, if you could turn into a woman and get fucked like you just said, would you be gay? Good question. No, you would see a woman who got thugs, like somehow if you're if you've decided to centralize on your masculine identity and someone fucks you, now you're gay. The whole conceptualization of gayness and straightness is just monkey talk is the problem the word itself.

The problem is the binary. It's like the definition who like you to be straight.

It's a binary dude.

It's like, look, I don't know, like whatever the fuck it is that you think is like limiting your ability to experience pleasure on the earth is Satan.

And it's like if that thing is telling you that you're a dude and this is the only way you can feel joy. But I'm like simultaneously you're like hanging out with a guy who's like the same gender as you and you're falling in love with him.

And then you're you're pretending you're not because because like some devil voice in your mind is telling you that Satan man, that's evil. That's fucking evil. It's dark, it's dark. And I'm not like deriding Lindsey Graham sexual proclivities.

I'm just saying, oh, he's not actively gay. I don't know that. All I'm saying is, like, when are you shaming him?

I'm not shaming Lindsey Graham like you are. No, I'm not.

I'm saying it would be nice to admit your privilege.

I hope Lindsey Graham is with me because I'm not insulting you, my friend. You can hear from my voice that I'm not insulting you.

I'm just saying the darkness, my own.

No, Joe, I'm telling you, if Lindsey Graham could fly off the planet, he would. That's what I think.

I fly off the plane with a man's mouth on his penis.

Who wouldn't I? I would do that, I think.

I don't care if I don't care if it was what fueled the spaceship or did.

That would be amazing.

Why wouldn't you do that or how awesome would that be?

And if it was the mountain from Game of Thrones and the guy's blowing you as you fly through space.

Oh, how your orgasm extends to eternity.

Yeah, the whole like gay straight thing really feels like part.

Pink Floyd, I wish you were here on the silence of trying to work it in there, but OK, fine, but the gay straight thing falls apart. If we stop being terrestrial like the moment you're not on the planet anymore. It's all planetary based, Meems man. It's like the one we're like released from the gravity. Well, all the stuff that seems so important to dumb asses. Yeah.

Which is like what you you would put your mouth on a penis. You must be crazy.

Matcham felt amazing. Imagine like no no blow fucking go and get that dick in your mouth.

And the moment that sperm is your tongue, it's like pop rocks. Yeah. Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop.

And your brain goes oh you and I man.

We will suckle on a we will suckle on a mucus thing that's like, like China.

We'll do that. All we do, we pride ourselves on it. We find ourselves water park slide. That's what I love so much about Christina Piasecki is Instagram and she does these like fucking hilarious Tic-Tac clips that she recovers from tech talk.

And there's a whole genre of tech talk of these creepy fucking pervs who are like showing how they like pussy and like the whole Tic-Tac is based on them, like going, oh, it's so fucked up, but it's like a guy will, oh, in the masculine sense, will go down on a girl.

Yet the concept of having a dick in your mouth is considered to be like fucked up.

Like you must be like a complete like something about you is weak. You know, I think we're going to have to contend with that as well.

This that's the dude. Well, you doing he does like like he'd like watch just you got to watch what they do.

I don't know, I just I just checked.

This guy does like. No like eating pussy Tic Tacs.

That's what he's doing. Yeah. Watch, watch it. Watch this one. Doesn't do you like he like eases into it. Her, by the way, her Instagram, the Tic-Tac, she does like she should do a whole show based on her, like she she like curates the most fucked up tech stocks you ever see.

Isn't that important, like tick tock, whether it's tick tock or Instagram or any of these things isn't that important just around the corner.

I do that. It kind of is right.

Lowering the boundaries, like dropping down the boundaries for people to be able to enter into the world of expressing whatever weirdo idea they have or video of doing back flips on to a fucking whale, whatever they're doing.

Yeah, yeah. It's a I don't like Tic TAC in the sense that, like, my wife opened it, she's in the Tic-Tac and I don't like it because she's always looking at Tic-Tac.

And then I'll be like, Really? You're looking at tick tock and she'll be like, you're on Twitter all day long.

You should get off Twitter. You should read this book. I hate Twitter. This book Irresistable. It's a mind blower, man.

It really is, because it lets you realize that as much as we're at each other's throats right now, I don't know how much of it is our fault.

And I think we could have been a lot better off if someone decided, instead of trying to make money, that they would recognize that this strategy of whether it's social media likes or Twitter, you know, Twitter, Twitter or Facebook or whether it's showing you the things you get angry about and you comment on Facebook or YouTube, like whatever we're doing, like ultimately we're changing the path the way people think are way more malleable than we like to think we are.

Right. Way more right.

And I think people that have a voice, whether it's you or I, are your bird or Tom or anybody who has a podcast in particular, because if you have a podcast, at the very least, no one's telling you what you can't talk about.

Right. And no one's Duncan. I love that segment. But when you're talking about people not conforming and trying to figure themselves out, people are thinking your non binary or somehow or another, you're like you're like you're not worth.

OK, sorry. I just repeat what I said. I'm sorry. I revise. We're in the middle of a storm, Duncan.

Yeah, well we what the main thing, the most important thing I think in this storm and it's easy to forget is is that like you and I and everybody we run across, I've yet to meet somebody who's a real monster man is a few.

But even them, they just need hugs.

They're also very unique when you run across is very unique.

And like the any time I feel like this is where I'm like I'm attuned to this, any time I get the sense someone's wanting me not to express myself, that's where I get really locked in and really like and I get the whole like a. woak thing because nobody wants some fucking liberal Baptist piece of shit to tell them how to be.

But, you know, man, like the moment I'm on my Instagram, I did a Black Lives Matter thing.

That's the only time anybody told me to shut up. No one told me to shut up before that.

But the moment I did a thing that was in alignment with, like Black Lives Matter, there was all of a sudden like this weird similarity of people hitting me up, being like you, you fucking woke me.

There was a lot of blowback from that.

And also when you when you say a lot like how many enough that like, I noticed it.

Right. But if you tune in and not a huge percent part like 30 messages.

How many messages? No, not thirty. Just enough. Where I when I'm going to say like five. Fifteen, fifty. Enough where like I realize.

How many Instagram followers do you have. I don't remember dude. I can look it up right now like not 200000 or something. That's a lot of people man.

But but I know what you're saying, but it was like I realized that like my thinking regarding being like even remotely and a political activist was being shaped by my fear that a tiny percentage of my audience would reject me.

And that's what I'm saying is like I was letting my ship get steered not by my own intuition or not by my own sense of like, fuck man, like that fucking George Floyd video. That's unforgivable.

But, you know, it's both. It's unforgivable. Any man that would do that to another man like that man needs help.

I bet he didn't think he was going to kill that guy, but he tortured that guy for eight minutes and 40 seconds.

It's like that guy needs he needs he needs a DMT trip. He. Needs something, he needs to recognize who he is, a killer, he it's also Duncan, I think I think we're asking people to do things they're not really qualified to do. They don't have the tools to handle it. They don't have the infrastructure to handle the load of pressure that comes in.

I just feel like all these people that and then right now we're we're so anti cop, it's like it's over the top.

Well, look, man, what I love about you is that you're, like, not afraid to say a thing like that. And like, I think if we're going to go if we're going to move forward right now, we need cops.

But no, if we're going to move forward, what we need is not just cops. We need compassion. Like if we're going to move forward, what we need is it's like, look, man, you're you're right.

This country was completely founded on human trafficking.

You're right that your idea that like that, the way like if you're if you have a particular complexion, this country shit is immediately against you.

You're completely right about that.

You're like the thing is, is like this is the problem is like and I think this is an important question for everybody to ask themselves is how do you act when you're right, that that's how you can really tell a person like, you know, I think honestly, I think we are looking for change the way we see change in ourselves, like we see a potential for change in ourselves.

We see something wrong. I got to correct that.

And then we think that society can do that, too. But society is like a battleship. Yeah. It's like a 500 meter long steel structure that has to be.

Yeah, planes land on it, that's good. Yeah, that's it, that's it. That's a good description.

Kind of turn the subject and then people like you, we don't like people, some fucking Muslim countries. Yeah, right. Right.

But you trans women are real women.

Yeah, right. And it's just battle to try to navigate this enormous metal structure through the fucking ocean.

And that's where we're at. That's where that's why you got to do a podcast with me. Donkin any time I'll do anything for you might work this out. We can work it out. I mean, they answer me.

I'm not wrong. Right. But the answer is compassion. You know, this is what I'm thinking, you and I have a very unique frequency.

Yeah, let's do it. This is why it's important, because when you and I get together and I firmly believe you and I can do this every goddamn week, I love it, especially if we only saw each other once a week. The best. I'll fly you in.

I'll fly home to Austin. We can assume, we can zoom, we can do whatever. I'll fly to North Carolina.

I'm not going to go to Colorado where I met Chuba. Yeah, man. Like, I love it, Joe. I mean, to me, like, you know, that's what I think.

So great about the fact that you got to be the person that you are, that you've got to be, that the spotlight got to be on you as it is.

And the reason it's on you and the reason I take such I really like not much offends me, man. But when people start attacking you, I do like I have to fight against my offense because I know you.

And so when people are fucking at arms against you, I feel really depressed because I know you and I knew you were one of the most progressive people I've ever met.

And so when you when people start falling upon you because you have, like, fucking nerds like Ben Shapiro, which finally should have the guy walk in the door.

Come on. Come on. Those conversations are important. I think what's beautiful about what you're doing is you're opening. I would not open up that. By the way, Ben Shapiro, underneath it all, I know that you and I would have fun, but I know that you right now, where you're at in your incarnation, you're a fucking dork.

I know you do want to be like he's a door. He's a door. But what's so nice guy, that's what's confusing about him is because you like him a lot. You look at his like you look at him and you like he's all like beating up. What's your face about the thing that embarrassing things like the music video he's like.

And on occasion you see me in the alley because you're talking about whereas guys like it's like that thing.

Shapiro it's so embarrassing. And like that dude is like an embarrassment. But what I don't think what people admit when they look at Ben Shapiro, it's like there's a piece of music.

I have fun with him, like fun to drink with him. He's pretty cool, but he's like right now I don't think he drinks, but he's a nice guy. He's a whatever it is, he's a good person. I'm not bullshitting. I look again, I think our job right now is not to alienate. We have to like involve.

That's why I have in mind that's that's why I know you're doing it.

Joe, he's and I'm telling you right now, Ben Shapiro is a nice man. He's a nice man. I see him.

I hug my every time I see him and I don't hug him to be fake. I hug him because I genuinely love that guy. I think he's a nice guy. Look, I think some of the stuff he's propagating in he's like philosophy is like legitimately deranged.

He's wearing an outfit. It's a costume. It's not I mean, he, Ben Shapiro, could never take off the yarmulke, shave his head, tattoo his chest with an eagle.

Right, wear a bikini. He's got an outfit I just want. But it's not his fault. I'm telling you, we all come from a different spot. If life is a race, it's not like everybody's on the same starting line.

Like people on starting lines are like a mile behind us. They're so far away, they're all different. And they here's the thing. Even if people are wrong about many things or even I'll explain this better, even if you disagree with the way people feel about so many different things, it doesn't mean you can't be their friend.

It doesn't.

And I'm telling you, we got it wrong. So we here's what's important. What's important is whoever that person is, they got to be sincere now.

As soon as you feel like someone's a grifter, you've got to cast them out, right? You've got to cast them out because they're going to figure it out on their own and they got to apologize. That's cool, man.

You got to listen. You can be wrong, but you have to be honest.

And if you're just bullshitting, then I can't hang out with you, dude. Let me ask. Shapiro's not bullshitting. I don't think he's bullshitting.

I just think he's like a little, like, antiquated in his idea. Look, man, I like I'm not like the whole bunch of beer. They like that. Of all your guests, the one great guy man, if you met him, if you and I and him went to a steak dinner, we'd have a great conversation.

I hung out with him at the what's that steakhouse, the Boa Boa and Hollywood down the street from the store on Sunset. I had a great time with him.

He's a good man. I don't I like I like genuinely like him a lot. When he text me Benchemsi or text me, I look at my phone, my friends. I like that guy. I like him.

I look as far as I'm concerned, if you're going to create what I think could be created by humanity, we have to create the engine not of rejection, but of acceptance, which meaning that like if you got a charismatic Vin Shapir avatar in the video game, in the simulation that we're in, there's a way to reabsorb him into reality that isn't like the way people currently see him if he's willing to relinquish his idea.

Yeah. And he has a very strict religious ideology.

Yeah. He's stuck in this little thing, but I think that's helped him that little thing.

Look, if you figure out a way to do something that helps you passed, most of the people that you're competing against ultimately hinders you against the people, the people who learned your lessons plus other lessons and aren't hampered by ideology.

And they pass you. You have to there's a moment we have to figure out when are you going to let go?

He seems to have a very clear mind. That's a school that he's like have a very insightful mind. I like that. I just feel like something about him. It like smacks of like the Nazi intellectual.

Yes, it does. But he's Jewish.

And here's the thing. I love. When people get mad at me that I talk to him, I'm like, listen, just listen to what we're saying.

Listen, he's not a bad guy.

You might not agree with him, but me and him are having a really, really good conversations about why I feel like you can't tell an 18 year old kid, just pull your pants up and don't shoot anybody. Yeah, we're having these, like, really nuanced conversations.

And he's allowing me because he knows I like him.

So you're like the Bohemian graph, but it's.

No, he knows I like him like Ben Shapiro.

And I don't agree on many things, but he knows if I see him, I go, what's up, man? How are you doing? I hug him. I know. Genuine.

That's all really care about. That's whole point. That's the whole point.

So if we care if he and I are sitting like right here and we talk about stuff, he knows that if I don't agree with him, I doesn't change my feelings about whether I'll hug him. That's or I love him. That's it. That's it. Yes. That's the problem. We're all facing. We're all facing this problem where we identify with ideas.

Whereas I think I think we can just do our best to make good with where we stand right now as a human.

And when we encounter other humans, let's take ideas and put them in front of us and let's cross our arms and let's go over these ideas without any attachment. Right. That's where it gets hard because most of us don't have enough personal satisfaction, our own accomplishments to relinquish this idea that our ideas are not ours, that our ideas are just it's just a mathematical problem. It's a fucking Rubik's Cube. Yeah, it's a it's a fucking game of clue.

Like, who knows who did. Is it Charlotte and the fucking library with a rope? We don't know.

So this thing that we're doing as people today is we're scared.

And one of the things that happen when people are scared, as they pull back, you pull back, you you put up fences, you wall off, you protect your truck, your tribe guys.

You decide what you can say, what you can't say. Yeah. Who's the enemy and who's who's good and who's bad. And everybody was off.

And my thoughts are that's a trap.

And that is just something that we've been involved with forever from the beginning of time, from single celled organisms to small mammals to human beings. We've been involved in this weird trap of competing against each other and the wrong way, competing against each other. In a way, we're ultimately somebody gets victimized.

I think the best competition is keeping the other competition alive, competing against each other while helping each other. And everybody gets by, everybody gets better and even people who are not doing well. Tell them why they're not doing well, that will force you to do better, right? All of the people are trying to take your position. If there's a ladder, you say this is why you fucked up and then you'll do better because they'll do better and everybody does better.

Yeah, there's no stagnation.

I get it. It's just like the like you're in a you're in a like, brutal position, like you're in a really brutal position like it no matter what.

I don't see how you can resist it. Like the problem with your your position is you have this, like, powerful voice. That's the problem is like you're a signal booster.

And like I also got a NASA suit and I can hold my piss for four hours on how the of you got pissed.

But but but but to me like that, the bizarre like that difficult situation you're in is like you get Ben Shapiro on you signal boost that, whatever that is.

I don't know what he is, by the way. He's a bad guy, Ben Shapiro. I'm not I'm not I'm not trying to ask you. You're fucking like whatever that thing you did with, like, attacking the music video was his pussy.

That was embarrassing. It was a mess. That was a mess. It was a mess. I get it.

It was really sex negative. It was so stupid. He seemed like such a nerd, a dork like.

And also anybody who's going to like do that, like feel like they negate whatever their philosophical ideas by attacking the think.

Because if, however, he's doing the exact same thing that Trump does when he gets attention, he's saying something about something that's culturally relevant and he's taking a contrary position and is generating likes. He's generating interest. Right.

He's like he's a he's a sales person for negativity, was his best friend. And Ben and I were sitting around.

He's like, this post is like, OK, OK. Yeah, you probably should because like, ultimately people are going to fuck with you. But my my position is it's better if you have vulnerabilities, if there's something you've done, it's really stupid.

It's probably better for you and shit on things. Yeah. And I think that's a good argument for coming out against whereas Puzey that what's wrong with what I put by the way.

Nothing but a guy like Ben Shapiro.

He shouldn't be right too many times.

Parn, part of his charm is failure is face it casually. He's got to say some shit that only a fucking do with. Yamaka says he's a bad person.

I learned there's a lot of do Jaris to listen.

Listen, I love Ari, but he doesn't wear a yarmulke, OK? You're saying that the metabolism, you don't have to wear it. So now you're in space. Yes. Flying. You've gone from rejecters.

Here's us as a golf ball flying to the universe. Your weight possible.

Look, that I don't I didn't want to get I don't care about fucking Ben Shapiro. I don't get God. You the first episode on Spotify. I don't care what I legitimately four hours in, who cares.

Plus I don't care.

I don't care about Ben Shapiro. I don't care that he's a nice guy who gets my no, he cares. Listen, if I hug Ben Shapiro, I really hug him. I love that guy. He's a sweetie.

I'm sure he's a sweet, but I don't need him. He's a nice guy. Look, man, it doesn't matter. Like, here's a deeper point, man.

And I don't mean to do this every time I want, but you have such a such a crazy power that if you're not careful, folks from deep, dark wells perspective are going to infiltrate your shit.

Dude, if you watch that great documentary on the like white Aryan folks, man, it's fucked up like this to really go there.

Give me that lighter. Here you go. Like, yeah. You look at like.

These people are very organized, man. It's like they're organized one thing and like and again, I'm not saying Ben Shapiro is this person. He wears a yarmulke. He's Jewish, but I don't know much about him. I don't care. I don't listen to me. Listen to me.

All those people that are organized. They come hang out with us, give me a hug. You don't want to give them a hug, relax.

Why does all those people are just people like a white supremacist, their loss.

Imagine if you gave a white supremacist five MCO DMT and let them sit on a couch, one of them brown suede couches.

They'd take three big hits and then as the first one as their exhale.

Yeah, oh. Yeah, I think it sucked into the center of the universe and they realized there is no center because there is no boundaries, it's all connected.

You're in a soup, you an infinite soup of ideas and biology and thoughts and prayers and love and hope and happiness and jealousy and anal sex.

And it's all together with cartoons and pop music and cheeseburgers.

Oh, yeah. Just a bunch of different experiences all fucking stitched together. And so I'm just saying there's a redemptive possibility.

And then in the aliens land.

Yeah, look, man, this is the way I see it, I don't know, man, who gives a fuck like really it's like, you know, the reality of it is is like we are in a very bizarre period, period in time, which is that you and I, we became friends on the phone having these same conversations. And now you say a thing that flies in the face of the particular like default reality of our time.

And you start trending on Twitter, you know, like that's like some of our community.

Like the way I know you right now is like you're trending on Twitter where I'm like, what the fuck?

But the joke's on them because I don't read Twitter. You don't go on Twitter at all. I don't read it. I post things like today. I posted Ali Letterman made some masks. It's just a waste of masks, Joe.

It's just weird because it's like you're like but it's not me. It's what they think I am. That's who they decide to have.

Yeah, but you have to watch out because people are going to, like, try to exploit you.

That's the main thing, is like people recognizing what you are, you have political agendas, will infiltrate your shit and then start blowing out their radioactivity into the world.

Right. That's a medium like face run shit. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. Like that was getting they'll get in there and then like I said, like you accidentally start exhaling shit that's like that's that. You don't agree.

I know you don't agree with like Ben Shapiro.

Listen, it's not that I don't agree with Ben Shapiro and I definitely don't on many things. And he and I talked about it.

It's that I don't want to abandon him. I that's that's cool.

I don't I don't think he's worthy of abandonment because I think he's a good person. Right.

And I think many of the things he says, he says because he's rewarded for saying controversial things on the Internet many times make sense in a logical way.

If you don't take into account all the different situations that lead to a person becoming who they are in 2020.

Right. Slavery and Jim Crow laws and all these different things that we all have to deal with.

But I think he's a good person. I really do. I think many times, like the things we say were half defensive and half promotional. You're saying things because you think that people are going to react in a certain way. Yeah, you don't necessarily mean. And you also say things because you've seen the contrary to that poorly worded and you decide you don't agree with that and so you want to counter it.

But I think the problem is in ideal ideologies, more than anything, if I'm really being objective, I always feel like our problem is purely and ideologies because we just committed to one side or the other in ideas to one side.

You're right or you're wrong. And I think if we could just divorce ourselves from ideas and divorce ourselves from all ideologies and just look at something like honest, like you come to me and I come to you and I go, Hey, man, what's up? I go, what are your intentions?

My my intention is to live a harmonious life with my neighbors. And I said mine as well, I think beautiful. And you hug each other and you go, what do we have to do about taxes?

What I look at, man, if we lived in a community where I felt like if I pay more in taxes, people will have their kids in a better school and the water will be pure and, you know, there'd be less crime, I would fucking one hundred percent sign up for that course. But I don't think the people that are taking that fucking thing and running with it know what they're doing.

That's right. That's the problem. You believe in the idea of democracy. You just don't believe in the organizational facility. That's like administering democracy.

Bend to the red line of human beings. I know where people fall apart. I know the red line. Yeah, I know when the RPM's hit here. I know of here bitch out and I know I'm not going to bitch out. And if you're going to bitch out, I know I know you're if you're bitching out and you're also making you're making laws. Right.

What do you think? What are you doing? What's going on? Who are you?

Why are you deciding what people do? We shouldn't have any figureheads. It's dangerous. Yeah. Alpha chimps are dangerous. They take it from me. A person with a big platform. Yeah. You shouldn't listen to me. You shouldn't listen to you.

You shouldn't listen to Bert Krischer Nationalists and Tom SIGIR.

Artisphere Arsh fear JOIDES or a name all the people you love to listen to. Sam Harris. Don't listen to them. Meaning listen to the show but.

Apply to whatever they say, your own objective opinion, but how weird is it that people will focus that you have been Ben Shapiro on this? I guess they don't they don't focus that you have Bernie Sanders on how weird is. They do. They do focus.

But what I'm saying is, like people in the left will say you're a monster, that you would have been Shapiro.

And they've completely forget that you gave one of the great potential socialist presidents of our time a platform that you supported.

They forget that Andrew Young and Tulsa got to me. That's my favorite. That's the part that drives me nuts. Is this why do they forget that?

Asked I am a savage, that's why.

What do you mean? I'm a savage. I'm a fucking cage fighting commentator. I do a commentary for UFC.

I do stand up comedy. I do wild comedy. I'm a wild person. It's a different thing. I understand.

It's just a we have to stop trying to push people down in order to push ourselves ahead.

And if we just all look at it like, look, there's things about all sorts of aspects of society that I don't agree with that smart people disagree with.

Right.

I don't know if they're right. I don't know if I'm right. I don't know. I would like to talk forever to people that are vegans, like my friend John Joseph.

He's the singer, the Chromatics. It's fuckin interesting, dude, man. You know, and. He he's a he's been a vegan forever, and he's like a super fucking strong guy, like mentally, physically does triathlons.

I want people to think different than me. I want them to write. I want bad motherfuckers to have completely separate ideas of how the world should or shouldn't work, what is wrong or isn't wrong, what's right or isn't.

What's privilege, what's bullshit. I want everybody to come to the table clean. All right. I want everybody to come to the table warm. I want everybody to hug. I really do. And I think we're all scared and I think it fucks up everybody. And if everybody who wants progress doesn't want people to feel good about running into each other and talking things through, we're going into this thing with the wrong energy, right. The right energy is going into this thing going.

Listen, I didn't ask to be born.

You didn't either. Right. Here we are. Twenty two only trying to figure the world out.

But let's just admit the the idea of wrestling between gay and straight, black and white, male and female is just so dumb.

I don't want to do that. I don't want to do that. I want I want to be I want to talk to honest and dishonest. I want to talk to secure and insecure. I want to talk to loving and hateful. Yeah. I want to hug people that need it. I want to figure out a way where we can get through this in a better state than we were five years ago and years ago. Let's get through this with food and water and realize we didn't need a fucking Amex platinum card.

I wanna a fucking I know. I don't want it. I don't want to go home.

You're going to be president now. One want to now. It doesn't I don't want any president. That's what I want. I want no president.

They're going to run this in your anti campaign. But you're going to. I could see it happening, ma'am.

We should postpone the election, try to find a better way to do this.

Now, do the fucking election, get Biden in there, get a non lunatic. We need is.

Romantic tension between a 24 year old like super, super liberal, super attractive woman like a thirty two year old Navy SEAL who's also married.

No one cheats on anybody.

They're the sexual tension and they keep it together and they work their way through veganism.

And I'm trying to fucking fix the world.

Duncan, I'm trying to tell you that all the things that we see, pros and cons, pluses and minuses is, yeah, man, I'm just trying to figure out, like we got the election and suddenly it's this erotic romance between this twenty four year old, so much better than a fucking guy with fake hair and some dead man.

We can agree with you with a cop shoving her hand up his ass and walking them to the hill.

Here's the thing that I don't understand in sports. Somebody in any fucking sport, if they're not doing great that night, the coach pulls them off and puts them in better in.

Here's the thing, Duncan Trussell. No one wants that spot. Their replacement, No one. Why? Who wants to be president? I would love to be president. He does not look for you. If you look at your face.

No. Oh, oh. Oh, my gosh.

I don't want to go through an election like I would like that an elections are so archaic. Yeah, fuckin woodstoves. Yeah. But I would love to be president.

Being president would be so fun. Would it be he's the best part. You could exonerate all your friends, the media, the most ridiculous thing about being president. You can the best you can just decide you're out.

I'm to party now by the way.

He's a bad guy, but he's a good guy. And here's a really important thing. The Trump administration just let out one of the great LSD chemists of our time. Who's that? I can't hear his name. It's so sad.

If you don't say it, don't say it. No, you should say it's a good spot that was thrown cigarettes on the ground. Utah. No, look, he deserves to be his name deserves to be spoken. You contacted me, Richardson.

Who do you remember the Nero Soup Streamliner Pacard. Do you remember? I'm so drunk. Me, too. Do you remember Nero Soup? Yeah, yeah. She was a girl who on YouTube and her and I, I went back with her. This is the interesting thing. She had a detailed account of how she put DMT up her asshole. She dated William Leonard Pickar. Yeah.

That's the guy that had the LSD lab in the middle of the bunker and the DMT accelerator pedal. He contacted me.

OK, and from prison, I don't know. I just got an email and it's not my main account, but I was like, hmm, maybe that's real.

But that lady, she had a whole YouTube series about different ways she took drugs. Yeah.

And whatever ones she took DMT up her asshole who it was a bad trip. She had a bad trip. Yeah, but. Part of me was like that girl. Tempt him. Yes, that's a rare human that's a great not a rare human looks at that DMT nugget, that little cocoa pop, whatever it is.

Honeycomb, Cheerios, I want to I want that in my life, I want to be around someone is like I so free put it up your asshole.

Would you even consider it? Yes, really. I would put DMT at my ass.

I've thought about after I heard about it, it's a good way to let the universe know you give up. I it it's a video game, it's the part of the video game where you're like, done, come move to Texas, please. I'm going to North Carolina. Where have to fucking move. Why do we have to be localized? I live in Tennessee. I want to know. I look, we don't want to be locked into any place.

I bought you a house.

We don't have to be locked into a place.

Joe, I appreciate you. And by the way, I know you. I to fix things. I know that you buy houses of your friends. I want to fix things. So sweet would say that. But we don't have to be spatially disconnected things down. We can all you're already.

Look man, you're already fixing things. You think you can help me. I would. I will help you in my bed with you. I'm better with you and than without you. Listen, man, I'm better with you than without you.

That's real. That's real. It's true. You and I both talked about this not just on podcasts, I think, but even like on friends phone calls. But when we do podcasts, I feel like you bring me to a place that I don't really get without you. Yeah, I really I really feel like that because I've known you so long. I remember when you had this breakup and we lived together and you called me up.

I don't know what to do. My mom would live with me. Yeah.

I was so happy. I was one of the comics that you involved in.

And also like in that that moment where I was living with you, it wasn't like some kind of like National Lampoon vacation thing.

You were like really serious with me. And you are not serious all the time.

If we had a few, like, really serious talks, you those serious talks you like helped me realize that, like, I had to stop being so flippant with my life and that was really good.

And you weren't fucking around. It was cool and it was very sweet. And I'll never forget it, Matt.

And but you know what I wanted to say to you?

This this will when you see someone who is at a bump in the road, many things can happen, right?

Yeah. And for you, I wanted you to know that, like, you can most certainly get upset along the way at different or you can be almost.

I'm almost immune to all the bumps in the road. Yeah, it's really how you decide.

And if you decide you this fucking Peter Pan character and just like float through this, like there's ways that you're lucky in ways that other people that live in Afghanistan and the Congo will never understand.

You will never know, man, you are letting me do that.

But you and I, when we were hanging out together, I was like I was like I remember the moment you called me. There wasn't even a half a second between.

You say I was like, yay, Duncan's get a live tweet. Yeah, that's sweet, man. And I wanted you to get in the tank and I got. Yeah. Oh that's great man. I love it.

And like, I'm not trying to like your perception of me may even be different from mine. But like one one thing that happened, I have a few memories of that incredible gift that you gave me.

One of the memories is riding up to your house. I don't even know how you got into my car that you will be in my Mini Cooper, which was red at the time.

I remember that.

We're driving up here to visit you. We're listening to Elliott Smith.

I'm playing Elliott, who's talking about fucking morose things.

And you are this I remember like I've been listening to that nonstop.

So we're riding up this hill to your mansion and listening to Elliott Smith in my Mini.

So this is like, yeah, this is before your podcast, before you become like what you are now.

Just imagine folks listening, riding in a Mini Cooper with Joe Chuckwagon or Cherry Red Mini Cooper trying to play Elliott Smith for him because it's really been moving you. I'm not playing it for you because like any other reason, this is what I've been tuned into for like a long time.

And so we're riding up this hill to you, to your mansion. And I remember you look at me in this way, the only like real friends can do this.

And you look at me and you go, you have to stop listening to this.

You were like, you can't listen to this anymore. Like, this is terrible. This is like hurting you. And it was it wasn't from a judgmental place or a place of musical brilliance. It was a friend being like, dude, you are depressed.

That guy gives out a vibration. And yeah, he was he was incredibly depressed and incredibly talented.

A terrible nexus. So good. So good. And he was a trap. But like, it's a trap, but it is a trap.

It's like you can squeeze out some really super positive juice and then to the left of your body, you're filled with cancer. Like that's that's the problem.

That's the problem with people, that there's there's so many different things where people are depressed and morose and they're talking about really dark things.

But dude, it wasn't just you like. So I get to your house. I'm in this mansion opposite you had that was this when you had a fucking piranha tank.

Do you remember that?

You have remember, sort a settlement of like mansion where there's a piranha tank and Eddie Bravo.

I remember because I was going up like to fake to like hide smoking because I was addicted at the time and cigarettes. Yeah.

And I remember like I was sneaking up to smoke and at some point, Eddie Bravo, I'd like gone up this hill to like like hide smoking.

And Eddie Bravo walks up the hill to me and it's like imitating smoking to me, making fun of me for being addicted to Ziga butt like well like you know, I had.

But Joe, you know, I happen like if I this is where I really go back. And I think Eddie Bravo in that moment, I'm like, what a prick.

Don't tell me not to fucking cut to me sitting in front of a doctor being like, well, you have cancer.

And your boss and I and I and I remember like referring back to that moment where I he's like, stop smoking.

Yeah. You know what I mean? Which was cool.

It was like like there's so many like in those moments there's a thing where you can do where you can protect people temporarily from their emotions, but you won't protect them from the consequences of their actions that you see that maybe they don't.

And I think we're all responsible for our friends blindspots. And when we see blindspots, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey.

Sorry so much you can do that. There's only so much you can do now.

Eddie Bravo could have like turned into a dragon. You mean like so creepy, right. Nicotine's a very addictive drug man gets you.

It gets weird way but he was legitimately trying to get me to stop smoking. He was a good man. That was a sweet moment.

Like when I look back I always like when I look back precancer.

I always think at that moment is like, man, he thought that guy was such a cunt. Like he thought he was sexy because you didn't want to quit that.

Yeah. Yeah.

So like if I said I always like but you look back like he wanted me to do better. He didn't want me to get one of my balls.

I got I got lucky, I got lucky because like it didn't spread through my whole body and I didn't have two choices right now. I can pee my pants or I could run to the bathroom, stop it, and then we come back. No, don't stop it. I've never had it. Where you go to the bathroom, talk to Jamie. We're for, what, five hours? In how many hours?

It doesn't matter. I got to be amazing. I've been dying for this moment, Jamie.

Just, you know, like through the years, if I was doing Rogan, I usually I'm the one who has to go to pee. Oh, my God.

But in this moment here, I am in it with the thing happening and, you know.

It does. What does he do with this spot, with the guest list? What does he say pulls of the stock?

He does, yeah. Yeah, well, I get good at it.

I subscribe to my Patreon forward slash DTF h. We have a Tuesday.

We have a meditation Wednesdays. We're doing a doing book club. It's amazing. The book Doom by Frank Herbert is incredible. Fridays we have a family gathering and she starts hanging out. But join us there.

You know, the truth is it is a simulation, you know, and we told you that before you linked into the thing and we told you we would wipe your memory and that you would feel like you are helpless in the sense that the thing you are right now, you don't know what the power that you wield.

So you chose that.

You see now what we said that in this moment we would do a thing where we alerted you of the fact that you have been you had intentionally decided to dive into a simulation making limited, very powerful your thoughts in the in the human world that you're in right now.

You're actually Thore, you you're you're a powerful Norse God that has gotten sucked into a very temporary, like magic spell isn't even that powerful compared to the powers in the world you come from.

But right now, you have become convinced that you are a limited identity in the mortal realm which you requested.

By the way, you said I want to be an insurance agent, real estate agent, school teacher, psychologist, fireman, cop. I wanted to be a pilot, somebody who is a flight attendant.

When I worked in a museum teacher, somebody who was a historian, a failed writer, a fellow comedian, you and and you became this temporary thing.

But the truth is, you're a God and you're confused. Joe, welcome back.

Oh, my God. It's so hard. It's amazing.

I don't want to do it. I just want everyone to know if you're like if you like. No one should have this amount of influence.

No one no one should be able to say things that affect politics and now social ideas.

You're right. I'm I don't. I don't. I agree with you. Right. I didn't want to do this. Right. This is a weird thing. Yeah. But I'm doing my best. Get my stop.

I'm not stopping.

You're going to retire because, like, no matter what you do, it's like jujitsu.

You can't go for choke just right away. You can't just dive on the choke. Yeah.

You got to slowly cook the person, slowly work two positions once the choke here and reneged naked reneged. You get them out, you let them back.

You if you could have guard you hold on your out of control. You try to mount again, they turn over, you get their back hooks in squeeze.

She takes time. It takes time. All things take time.

Don't you worry though. Like that. Like what it's like. And again like we've been going on so many hours now. So now at this point I'm just feeling how much time has this podcast on on.

Forty four minutes and 40 seconds, but don't you worry. Four hours and 40 minutes, Joe, don't you worry that this fire's first episode. We're right. I was right. I know it. You knew it.

Mike Duncan. I didn't want to be number one. I know you had to be number one when you invited me on.

I didn't even try not to think about it. So flattered. But I have to be I felt darkly flattered. And then I and then I went on your, like, celebrate.

I saw don't read the votes for crazy people.

I saw the votes for who would be on the number one thing.

I wasn't even listed. Just people. No, they're not. I mean, they're fools. I know what I'm doing.

This pocket knife, dude, talk more custom knives, shout out Dick. But like, not to like I do feel like those people are fools.

They're wrong. Listen, I feel like you have helped me in many steps the way because you and I as friends, you know, we we came from different backgrounds, but we're both very compassionate and very interested in exploring alternative ideas, both of us.

And we we you and I have had so many conversations where you said something to me that I've let.

Hmm, damn. Maybe, huh? And I've had to reconsider the when I was focusing in on something and because I respect to you and this is something I've said of Ari as well and Joey and even Eddie, Bravo and Jamie and all the people that I'm around.

If if you say something to me, I consider it like I'm thinking of it in a different way. Like if you say I don't think that's a good idea because of this, I go, huh, OK, tell me why.

Right. And I'll let it go. I'm I don't want to be I don't want to cling on to that early idea, man. And I think that's half our problem.

That's half our problem.

You know, I've always felt like a weird sense of guilt about any braver man because like Eddie Bravo.

Uh, want me to do that? Yeah. Yeah. Thanks to you, I always felt like where's the Gilovich? He said he had to cut his finger off last time he did. And I felt I felt like a weird together, Eddie, because like I said, I don't agree with all this conspiratorial ideas. No, I don't either. But it is he but dude, this is an important thing.

Like this is an important thing. Like not only did he tell me to quit smoking, and then I got one of my fucking balls and I got one of my balls chopped off. Well, he was right about that, but. Right. But I mean to, you know, don't eat shit. He said another cheers, brother.

He said another thing I do feel like it's worth mentioning, I always felt a weird sense of guilt because I think I judged him harshly.

And it makes me feel like a dumb like like because he's like a jujitsu master. Yeah. So like, I always, you know, he's my master. Yeah. So I give someone said, who's your master? I say first John Machado second. Eddie Bravo. Yeah, one of my best friends is my master.

So I always felt I always had this trick, at the very least a trickling sense of like, man, I think you're wrong about your judgment.

They're both dangerous. Yes. Danger kill you. Yeah. Well, that also taught us the problem.

Any time I've been talking to him, I'm always a little bit like nervous. At any moment I could die. It's like a pet snake. Yeah.

Like what if it's a moment you do like him, go insane, decide to kill me. I won't.

I won't. Do I feel like that around here. Joey. Joey Diaz. Yes. What do you think you kill killing. No, no, no, no.

But he's so wild. So crazy. He's like a bear. I want to keep feeding.

Joey Diaz is like, you know, he's the goat. You know that, right?

Well, I do like you know, he is the greatest of all time. There's no one who's ever been funnier. I've I've seen Joey Diaz hit like frequencies. I've never seen anybody else hit.

Yeah, he was hanging out in Colorado. We're like like around Shambhala, which is like the place like my meditation teacher's teacher was teaching older. Yeah, man.

So we encountered some like beings there that were like really advanced.

And like he he actually he like digested some of that stuff, like he's what Joey Diaz is. Wow.

I remember like to me, like the thing that like, you know, one of the aspects of this particular moment in college, you get so fucked.

This is college, you go, right? Yeah. It has to be well, college you go like a lot of people to explain. So college, it's the age we're in. Right. Explain to you guys so that you guys are like vast spans of time and we're considered to be in the college.

And now the other this is like something that was actually actually predicted. Yes. Several years ago.

Yeah. Hunt like thousands of years ago. But in terms of like people recognizing this right now is college, college, UGA.

There's there's there's like, you know, differences in what part of the college you were in. But there's no difference in that. We're in the college. In the U.S., I'm sorry, you is there a period of time that one of the ways to like. But if they get represented, it's like, imagine a dove flying through the sky with a silk scarf in the beak and the tip of the scarf brushes against the peak of the Himalayas. So the amount of time it takes for one of those peaks to get pushed down to a valley that could be considered a Yuga, it's like it's a it's a it's actually a in Hinduism.

It's a it's a period of time. And people argue about that length of time negotiable.

It's negotiable. But there are certain symptoms for each yoga.

And so the caller Yuga the symptoms are you can't remember very well your memories are fucked up, your impetuously, your fat, your fast and your decisions. You're easily addicted.

You know if you look back at the history of Hinduism, the Vedas were originally sung, so they were memorized and people would sing them down.

The da da da da da da da da da da da.

They would sing them and they weren't written down. Writing is considered a degradation. Yeah. Yeah.

But that was written down because they heard it and then they like it was written down later down the line. The idea was you didn't need to write anything down because you could memorize it.

Mean I remember when I was a kid in high school, my friend Brian Cattrell going through all the numbers he'd memorized and it was so many he had so many phone numbers memorized because we didn't have phones.

So you had to memorize numbers or write them down and a little pad.

So what we consider to be technology is really a crutch to make up for our idiocy in the age of the collar you get, which is what we're in right now. And a lot of people get confused because they think college means Kali, the goddess of destruction.

How many years? I'm not I think for three or four. What do you know? I don't know. I don't know the answer.

I only know that she was like this eight hour podcast.

You have to give him overtime pay.

I've been trying to figure out not that I want to end this at all, but this being our first Spotify podcast, it kind of has to be two. We have other things. I don't know how they're going to this file.

And well, we're right now at five hours into the podcast. Right. How many hours did.

Yeah, five hours. Which just make it to two and a half hour podcast.

I feel like I've been stopping. Certainly I don't know how I don't want to, but Spotify, I know what I'm doing.

This is why I brought I'm going to miss you, man. That's the main thing to miss me. I'm going to be around you. Come on. You know, coming back to Kota. I'm sorry. I forgot. I didn't want us.

South Dakota, my sweet home. Well, fuck Arizona. Sorry, I'm going to South Dakota and I can't wait.

But, dude, it's rough to come in here to see people because look, man, here's the main thing. It's like we're not packing on stone.

Yeah, dude, but that's not where am I not packing ourselves up because of some like like like Hunter S. Thompson thing?

We're packing our sets up because the country we're born into is falling into the throes of a really dark period induced by a once in 100 year pandemic. That's what I'm saying.

But why do you want to live in a place where none of us who live in. Why not think about I know why I don't want to live in Austin, I know that. But why?

Well, because I'll tell you why, Joe, if you really want to know the real dark reason, because you announced it, you know what I mean?

Had you not announced, it might be a different story, but you and Elon Musk is wanted to get out anyway.

Yeah, but Elon is coming to Austin and talking about it.

I know. So welcome. Like Austin Saghir. That's Silicon Valley. So. Yeah, yeah. Dude, yeah. I'm sorry, but that is what you have created by yourself.

I know Matthew McConaughey has a great idea what he wants to make a primer for people moving to Austin. We say, hey, don't turn what you escaped from into the place you go into.

Oh, shit, that's brilliant. Yeah.

Don't turn the place you're escaping to exactly like where you fled. Yeah, man. Yeah, I get it. Brilliant.

And that's he's right.

Austin and we were talking about earlier where we talking about defunding the police and defunding ice and all this nonsense of people. Let's just figure out a way to be nice to each other.

Yeah, man, I agree. And I don't think that's based on any locality. Now, the Austin thing I like offline, I'll tell you my decision, because I did fine.

I did think about it, Joe.

I thought about it. Turned you off to it. Well, you know, my my feeling is I'm stammering because it's like telling you I would reveal where I'm headed and I don't mean to be like like, oh, magical about that.

But the main thing let me say where you are headed is a great choice. Thank you for the bin.

And you fit in there like a pea in the pie. I might wind up being there.

You might keep moving because that isn't that is the thing I think about the Spotify deal and just the idea of what a podcast is moving forward. I want you to be involved.

That's why I wanted you to be number one. And thank you to you. And I have some of my favorite conversations. Yeah. I love you, man. I love you, too. We've been friends for a long fucking time. Yeah, man, I'll be involved with anything you're involved in it's doing.

And I meant that. And by the way, not fun. Not not to go back to Eddie Bravo apologetics.

If I didn't finish my point back then and I think is an important point to make, he said to me something that was so fucking weird when he said and this was on top of him taking on a missionary stance with my inhalation of tobacco smoke.

So by then I was already like over a little defensive. I was defensive and I didn't I was like I was too dumb at that time to, like, recognize, like, shit, man, this guy is kind of fucking like he's a jujitsu master.

So what he's saying is not coming from like a place as someone who hasn't, like, worked really hard at it. He's saying, just don't kill your body.

Yeah, but one thing he said to me, which is I always think back to it because I remember when he said I was like you sycophant.

And what he said to me was exactly what's happening to you right now.

What he said.

He said, you have no idea what's going to happen to him. He's going to be like like he's going to be so huge.

And I remember him saying this was this was fear factor. It was not like a safe assessment, man. It was like when he said it to me, it felt guilty. It felt fucked up. It felt like it felt crazy.

Right.

And it was I remember him saying it to me and like being like, man, I didn't say it because I'm afraid of him thinking, like, you're fucking crazy.

You would think that. But, you know, it's weird that he's right. You know, that's what's weird about it is like this is your first episode on Spotify. And it's crazy, man, because, like, I get and I'm honored, deeply honored that you invited me.

No second choice, you know. Thank you, brother. You have first choice people across the board when they said, who do you want to have first on Spotify before they said Spotify is a dunk trussel.

That's so cool. So cool.

And I really believe that what I said that I think you and I have different shows. There's something about you and I together that it's different than just me by myself.

Man, we let's fans we're not just friends, man. Like we've known each other for so long.

And there's no doubt we've tested each other back and forth, up and down, left and right. We know we love each other. Like, you know, if he if you call me up at 3:00 in the morning, Joe, I need your help like I am. I know that there, dude, I'm a commando. I know I'm ready to drop in from a helicopter. Yeah. Save you. Yeah.

And because of that, because of our long relationship, we've we've been friends for so long, dude.

I mean, how long when do we like nineties. When did you start working in the 90s.

Dude we've been friends since the 1990s so more than twenty years.

Yeah. We've, we've gone you have seen me go from being the town to the Comedy Store to being someone supporting themselves off of their comedy man like you.

You've seen me go from like you. You were friends with me when I was like when I was when I was like no one would have ever gambled on anything happening with me.

No, not no one. Just no one. Stupid.

I saw it right away when the moment I first saw you do Little Hobo, I yeah.

I saw you a little hollow in the oh I'm like, oh my God. Yeah man. But you keep doing that to me like that's the thing is like you keep doing that, like that's the reason that you, you deserve what you have, you really do like all the haters, other people.

We were like, I get the haters. So it's like how it doesn't work. The trick is it's like I get it. If you're not like someone, explain it to me.

Like when you look at people are doing really well. Especially if they all socialize with each other, it becomes like a walled garden and he feels like it's alienated. It feels like you're you're isolated. You're locked out. And it makes you feel bad and it makes you feel shitty. Yeah. And that's the problem.

So you didn't do that. Dude, you hated me. You just so you know, like when we didn't hate me. But you are irritated by me because like you don't remember when we first met was in the belly room.

I was with Princess Corey.

Corey come and like I was trying to at the time, I was really into like it wasn't even called trolling then, but it was like saying a thing opposite to what you should say.

And I remember like something a contrarian. I was being a contrarian and something came about marijuana. You mentioned marijuana. I'm sitting with Corey. Come. I'm always I was already nervous around you because at the time you were like, you know, you were you were still like that time.

You were still like in this incredible trajectory.

And like, I made a stupid joke about how weed was, like, bad. You know, I come from like I was like, there's never been a time that I haven't been high for years, you know, especially then.

But I made this dumb joke about weed was bad.

And I remember you looked at me with such such like a scathing look of like because you had just started, like, understanding how wonderful marijuana was and you really thought I meant we was bad.

And I remember Corey gave me this look like, no, Duncan, no, don't don't do the joke.

I was a terrible moment because you were you weren't in a place where you could even like you weren't tolerating that because you were getting high and starting to realize that it wasn't probably what I think when I first started smoking pot, I became a zealot like real quick because I realized I had been lied to.

That's it. And I had misunderstood the idea what marijuana was. I became a zealot. That's what it was. You were a zealot. The look you gave.

Sure. I remember the way you looked at me.

I realized, like, God damn, I bet he hates me for never, never.

But today, in the same situation, I'd be like, yeah, right.

But they think it was funny. You were defensive. I was a zealot. I was certainly a zealot. Once I first experienced marijuana, I became a zealot. But you and I had such awesome conversations. We had most of our conversations when we first became friends on the phone call you up. I go, Yo, dude, I'm here. Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. What's up? What are you doing, man? I do.

I was Aldus Huxley book and you start telling me about some crazy shit. Yeah. You and I would just go, I mean it would be like a significant chunk of my day on like Mondays when I call in is you and I would have these cool conversations.

So you take me on the road with you. We go to the Irvine and we're driving back from the Irvine Improv in your car.

I'm so stoned.

You're playing Terence McKenna. Terence McKenna is talking about the singularity and he's talking about like, uh, this idea that we're accelerating towards this point in the novelty. Novelty. Yeah.

And I'll never forget that ride back from the Irvine and I'll never forget it because, like, I'd never heard that Terence McKenna, his speech, I knew about Terrance Gainer roughly from like, you know, I had encountered him in my earlier years.

As a second. I feel like something about that particular lecture that you're playing, something about leaving something as weird as a comedy show.

And this idea that he was saying, and this is the part that still sticks with me to this day, which is, you know, look, we are heading towards a point of concurrence of events that is known as the singularity, and that the closer we get to it, the more we're going to experience these things, tachyon particles being blown backwards through time that will produce these events in history that we call novelty.

And something about that ride back and just that moment, me listening to it, I started thinking it wasn't like I even thought this isn't real.

I thought that is real. And so here we are now.

Twenty, twenty and the middle of a pandemic, you've become what has been described as the Oprah for men, for Oprah, for Oprah.

And you are like you are someone who, like great leaders and principalities, are trying to get into this podcast. Do you remember when you live with me?

And I started buying bullshit and you already had to go to shit, but I started by it all. I like bought a Shiva, but this giant bronze Shiva. Yeah, like in you go.

Hey, you know why you're attracted to this, right? Yeah, I, well that's that's the thing that weirds me out about you man.

That's the part that where I'm like oh I get it. It's like well there was some realization that happened and you're picking up on that. And so because you're picking up then that you have cancer. Out here and you have all these like Eastern symbols, but I just think they look cool. No, no, I that's what I think we are.

You think that you think they look cool. Also, you happen to have this massive audience, regardless of whatever that is. I just remember that that. Right. I remember that right back.

And I remember it like I remember like thinking like, you know, I think there's something real in here.

Like, I think what McCain is saying is probably true, you know, and I think this pandemic I think this pandemic represents something he predicted, which is we're in a novelty wave right now.

This is it's been it's been a century since the last pandemic. No one here knows how to deal with this. And now we're in a novelty wave and maybe we got lazy.

We didn't take into account all of the possible variables. And the big one with this administration was pandemics.

Yeah, man. But not just that. It's like the problem is like where you're kind of in a bit of a bind is that all this human attention has been placed upon you and you have to wrestle with your identity because it's what I need you to move to Austin.

You don't need me. And asked if I could help me come.

I don't need I can't do this to help you. How are you?

I'm always there for you, man.

But the problem is, is like you have this burden of attention and it's like it's a it's a real like for whatever reason, like some like you people have decided you're you're one of the magnifying glasses focusing this beam of attention into the world. And so within that is all this room for disaster.

It's like, you know, whatever you like.

Every disaster is the perfect way to put it.

Yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah. Someone pays attention to every aspect of your life. There's so much room for disaster. Yeah, man.

But I think at a certain point in time, it's like there's a sacrificial lamb, a person who lays himself down on the cross that, you know, all of us.

It's all of us. But, you know, it's a really you are in a bit of a bind because it's like, look, man, here's what I love about not being George Washington. I didn't have to make the decisions he made. Yeah, I'm reading this book, Dune. It's so beautiful.

You give someone says, Duncan, I know you only have 14 teeth. I don't have to make the decision, but I can sell you all the rest of them. I don't have to. I don't be fourteen shillings. I don't be Jesus. I don't want two pence. I don't have to be Churchill Downs. I don't want to be any of these people, man. I don't want to be them. I would not assign myself to that incarnation.

But like and Undun I'm reading this great book doing by Frank Herbert is so good. And in this desert world there's this being called the Freman. They're like they they like have become they represent complete, complete attunement with nature.

And so this wonderful point in the book, this imperial white galactic representative of this imperialism is like sitting in a canyon with all his wounded men.

They're almost done in the freman. One of these tribal beings is saying to them, you have to make a water decision. And what they mean by that is your wounded men. You have to pick one of them to die and we'll render their body into water because in this world, there's no water.

So you have to make a water decision. And the freman is interacting with it being in this pure way, which is the only way you can act. If you're truly into a nature, you're innocent. And and it isn't like dark or anything is like you have to make a hard decision. And the being is saying them.

Like hesitating and the Freeman is saying to him, Do you want me to make the water decision for you? And they don't mean it in an aggressive way, they'd be like, would you you love these people?

Would you give up the decision to us? Wouldn't you be enough to make the decision yourself?

Fortunately, in the book, one of them dies and they're able to, like, ruin their body in the water.

But what I'm saying is, like these being the position of power and the whole series of doing is based on this problem, which is like if you get saddled with any kind of power, even if even if you want to pretend it's a kind of clownish power, you are still in a very difficult situation because you have to make a lot of decisions, like you will have to like if you're Trump and you're a clown president or if you're Obama, you're some advance president or way you're lost.

There's only 20 of you. Yeah, man. Someone's got to become water. You have to make a water decision.

If you're if you're the president, that's three hundred thirty five million people. Everything you decide is a water decision. That's a little easier.

But if you're on lost. Yeah, there's 13 people left. Yeah, man, it's brutal. It's brutal.

And like, no matter what trick you try to use to deal with it, no matter what your use, you're still forced. It is terrible that it's a predicament, man. It's a Chinese handcuff situation.

It's like Chinese handcuffs are bullshit. It's not Chinese handcuffs. It's ever been invented. It's going to hold me down. It's a creepy place. Chinese handcuffs. I like this.

Yeah. Well, yeah, I know, I know, man, but it's ultimately it's like, damn, I always feel bad. It's like I never want you to trend on Twitter whenever I see you trending on Twitter. It really sucks for me because I'm like, fuck, is he OK? That's what I hate about Twitter is like people are trend on Twitter. You know what I'm saying? It's do I get it?

I hate it because I'm like, shit was in a car accident just to have Twitter. Yeah, you're right.

I got a Twitter or something. It's good for you. The problem is you're interacting with people that don't they're not communicating, first of all.

And foremost, maybe they're not communicating with people that are right in front of them. So they don't feel social cues. Right. They don't feel empathy. You're right.

And so they're they're talking in this weird way that's only existed for like fucking ten years.

It's that done on Twitter. Follow me. Duncan Trussel on Twitter. Now, you're right.

I agree with you. Ls to us.

Well, now, Jaron Lanier, you know, like the idea is like get the fuck off social media. I agree. I don't think that's right either. Is it weird for this? I think I think I think it's inevitable. I think it's too big, too much of a part of everything.

I think there's no I don't think there's a future in telling people to stay off it.

I think there's more of a future of telling people to understand what it is and manage it, to look at social media, to look at Twitter and Instagram and all those things and understand what they are.

I don't think you have to get off, but you should you should spend a lot of time outside of that.

Got to get out there, man. It's not good to read comments.

It's not good to Google your name. I don't think that's good. And that's how when you see me and you see I'm OK, that's why. Because I don't do that.

Those things you crazy. Should we cut ourselves for Spotify? Should we, like, do like a little blood brother ritual or we cut our fingers like blood.

That's how you get your fucking covid test.

Let's do it. We're like covert. We don't have we don't have to cover it anymore. Should we, like, do a slice. No, come on. It's good. We're not talking to all great.

Our great rituals are based in like some kind of blood bond. Do you think there's this honestly, if you didn't know me, if I wasn't your friend, would you think there's a responsibility that I have that I'm not meeting? No, I think you're meeting.

I think the problem is, like, no matter how you like, it's like it's hilarious in the in Star Trek.

You know, Captain Kirk, if you're going to be like someone you like kids to be a commander of a starship, you're given a problem that is unsolvable.

So no matter what you do, it's that you can't win no matter what you like.

When you get to a certain level of power, any decision you make on some level is wrong and right simultaneously. This is quantum computing, my friend.

So I do not you know, in my analysis of your podcast and all my deep, judgmental qualities, I do not see what you're doing is being wrong at all.

I see sometimes you make naive decisions that I like to push.

I think sometimes you have people on you later found out to be like, well, at least in the moment they were on the show a little like fucked up, like for sure in the early days. I had an issue in the early days where I didn't want to admit that I was getting as many views. I was and I would do a show and I was just like, no one's watching this. I don't have some crazy person on. Yeah, maybe there was a few there.

I was like, I shouldn't talk to that dude. That dude was fucked up. Yeah, but that was a learning process. You know, that was there's there's a think about doing a podcast. Where there's no school for it, there's no way to figure out how to do it perfectly. It's not like learning how to play piano. It's real linear. There's all these weird ways to do it and no one knows.

So unfortunately, I was like, I guess like second generation.

First generation is for sure. Adam Curry, he's the bad father. And then there's like Adam Carolla, there's a few other people. But I came right after that. Yeah.

Twenty nine. So no one knew what the fuck we were doing. And I think there was a there's certainly been some times where I didn't want to admit that it was reaching as many people as it was.

Yeah, you can't think about that because it makes you feel crazy.

Well that's why I want to have you on, because I knew we were going to get drunk and get high. The first episode would be as preposterous as an episode can be. Yeah. And then from this you can like, have people on. You are like real pundits or whatever.

I mean, look, man, anyone ever I've ever talked to, any time I've ever been in a situation where people are talking shit about you are like questioning my friendship with you because I think because because you had this person to that president, if I'm friends with you, some we're with you or me or whatever at all, always and will forever stand up for you, man, because I know you and I and I and to me it's like, look what like you got into this ridiculous predicament.

Like you're in you're in a bind, man. You are you are in a bind. And it's a beautiful it's a beautiful bond. It's a real it's a real problem.

And but like because of your heart, which is very open and very sweet, you allow this like you allow everyone to have you allow a lot of people on your podcast that don't make sense according to the zeitgeist.

And if you get mad at you and they pounce and I always feel so rotten about that because it's like, man, you don't understand.

This is a real progressive. Like you're looking at someone who is exactly the being that you would hope would be the likely result of like great government and great education.

And you're fucking attacking an ally. That's the part that gets me where I get really bummed is it's like, man, you have to understand that person.

Look, you if you ask me, I feel like Dunkin's I've been shapir on.

I feel like now, you know, there's so many better people to have on in that guy, but it doesn't mean you can't have those other people on too, if you listen to me.

But I would say to you, I go, listen, man, I know what you're saying, but if I just took you to dinner, you, me and Ben Shapiro went some fucking kosher.

I love I love hanging out with him. I guarantee you like him. No, I know that. A good guy. No, the problem is not him. The problem is all the people's reactions to him and him.

But there's two things. Those two things, the things that he said and the reactions and the fact that he's kind of weaponized the reactions. Yeah, he's a good guy. Look, I don't lie to me.

It's like I would I would be so bored.

If you only have people on the show that I agreed with, it would be such a shitty show.

I do have a rule where I I won't have anybody any more unless I feel that they enter into those arguments with good faith.

Yeah, man, I know that. And I feel like Ben Shapiro, he enters into all discussions with good faith. He's not insulting guy.

He and he and I have interesting conversations about gay marriage, interesting conversations about all sorts of aspects of society, racial relations, black lives matters. And and he and I have talked about it in a very respectful way, even though we disagree. It's been no there's been no insults. There's been no shittiness.

And I think that's the problem with putting a guy like that on some sort of a standard traditional talk show you have him on and some social justice warrior and they argue with each other and you get a host and you break every seven minutes to go to commercial. Yeah. You don't find out what he's about. He's not a bad guy, man. And he gets shaped as much by those seven minute segments where you battle. Yeah, I guess you're trying to get sound bites, as you and I, to buy 30 minutes spots the Comedy Store trying to pass open mic night based on this podcast.

You would imagine that I have a chip on my shoulder about Ben Shapiro, which I really don't.

I don't think you do. I don't think and the reason I brought up Eddie Bravo is only because, like, I think like what you're doing is really sweet and good. And I think your heart is in the same place it was when I met you a while ago, which is pretty bizarre.

Like they would somehow maintain a thing that's integral. You know, I've met you know, you meet people out here who go. Through rough patches, and they're not who they portrayed themselves as initially, they're actually like con artists or fuckups or like bad temporarily, I think people get better, but sometimes they're bad to really be you.

You really like if we maintain this, I think a really beautiful kind of north star regarding your ethics and your consideration.

So, yeah, man, I'm like, I'll do anything for you.

Really. I'm one of your great devotees have killed for your job.

What started as one of your great devotees? Yeah, I really am too, man. I feel like like legitimately honestly, I.

I feel like I've been tested where I've been given an opportunity to help other people.

And I feel like it's there's no controversy in my mind. My mind knows the right choice. Yeah, man. And so I've always tried to promote all these different comics. And I think that that's what we should all do with each other. I think I don't think we need to make all the money. I think you need to make some money and make some money. What do we need, man? We need barbecues and fucking margaritas.

But I never I never. But I've never seen this. I'm not a selfish I've seen a lot of people be selfish. I've never seen you be like, this is the thing. I don't care.

Here's how I'm selfish, I'm selfish and I'm not selfish because I know that being selfish is negative to you. All right?

It's bad for you. It's dangerous. It's sloppy, it's weak. It's some bitch ass shit.

So I never I'm never selfish because I'm selfish. I don't want my son to be a bitch. You discovered a thing. I figured it out when I was jealous.

I figured it out when I was younger. I remember watching comics who were better than me when I was like twenty one. And I was thinking like, God, fuck these guys. How did he come up with that joke? And then I don't remember when it happened but it was early like twenty one, twenty two.

I remember catching it and going oh I caught a bad pattern.

Like I got this pattern where I'm jealous like or I could be the way I was before I ever got into comedy, which is inspired.

Instead I was jealous. So it made me realize, oh, I've got a bad pattern that I'm, I'm chasing this bad pattern. Do you remember that time, Joe, that we drank a bowl of blood in front of that Molik statue?

It was chicken blood. Yeah. Anyway, whatever work I feel like, hey, it's like I do.

Is this the longest podcast ever? Well, it doesn't matter. Yeah, we're done. I got to pee again. Let's watch it again tonight. But what do we at five and a half. It's over. We did it. Kevin Smith was five hours.

Why, Joe, thank God we didn't do this in to podcasts. I think we should do whatever you want to do that. OK, right. Listen, Spotify don't get greedy. They give you a six hour Spotify. Thank you. Thanks, my friends. It gets better. There's going to be actual scientists on this show. You keep listening.

I will talk Duncan Trussell into doing regular podcast. No problem either through Zoom. I, I, I have thoughts. I have ideas. I want to help.

I would have this conversation if we were recording. That's the funny thing. I the only been I feel like I've been extending it. Yeah. It's just because I want to keep talking. I know.

Me too man. Well all right. How decreased in my family. I'm sorry.

Kiss me.

We should have done the blood ritual. I would have. Thank you, friends, for tuning in to the show and thank you to Magic Spoon and their delicious cereal to taste like it should be bad for you, but it's actually good for you. Go to Magic Spoon Dotcom slash Joe, get yourself a variety pack of their fucking awesome cereal. You're going to love it. Classic sugary taste, but with none of the bullshit and they give you all 100 percent happiness guarantee.

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Thank you. Thank you very much.

Bye bye.