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Free shipping and a 100 percent satisfaction guarantee. Go to Magic Spoon Dotcom Joe. All right, folks, if you're listening to this, you are listening on either iTunes or one of the Android apps, that's not Spotify. This is September 1st from now until December 1st. This podcast will be available everywhere, but starting on December 1st, it will only be available on Spotify. People like why the money? They give me a lot of money. That's really the only reason.


But also, Spotify is an awesome company. It just made sense. It was a good deal, but it's free. That's what I want you to know. You can get it on Spotify for free. All I'm asking is you download the application, it will have video for free. There will be the regular podcast for free. So if you're listening to this on any other platform in December 1st, that's when it becomes only available on Spotify. My guest today is one of my favorite human beings on Earth.


He is one of the most unique and interesting people that I know. And every time we get together and do a podcast, it it's just there's a thing that happens when the two of us together that doesn't happen when I'm alone and I don't. And he says it doesn't happen when he's alone either. We we complement each other in a very unusual way. And it's because we're so close. We've been friends for a long time. He used to work at the Comedy Store.


My friend is Duncan Trussell. That's why I'm introducing him. And he was the guy who would take your availability. So I'd call up and I'd say, hey, I'm in town Wednesday through Friday.


And then we would talk and we would have these long conversations on the phone, sometimes for hours at a time while he was working there, because, you know, oftentimes the phone would ring for 15, 20 minutes and he and I would just be talking.


And I took him on the road with me. And we lived together for a little while. He got kicked out by his girlfriend. He lived with me for a few months. I just love this guy to death. He's an amazing human being. He's one of the more interesting and more introspective, more fascinating people I've ever met in my life.


Please give your love and affection to the great and powerful Duncan Trussel girlfriend podcast, The Joe Rogan Experience, joined by Joe Rogan podcast My Night All Day.


Duncan, hello, Joe, how are you, my friend? I'm great, man, I'm psyched to be here to you, sir. Cheers, Brother Chris now. Great to see you.


Mm hmm. Always. That's good, my friend.


It's a strange time. And, uh, we're both departing this land now for greener pastures.


I keep thinking back to when we first became friends. In the strange path. Sent from there to here and all our predictions and all the things that we never would have imagined, this, you know, specifically like that there would be this fucking global pandemic that we would suddenly be like.


Some kind of like refugee is way too dramatic a word for it, but suddenly just part of this diaspora of comedians pouring out of L.A. and not just comedians, but just people leaving, man.


Well, I talked to Joey today from New Jersey, called, you know, called him. He's in New Jersey. And it was just such was so strange. Like you're in Jersey and he's like, That's right, motherfucker. Yeah. You know, he's unhappy. Happy in Jersey.


You know, he was the last like you even was intense. But I was still like, you know, maybe we'll stick around and see what happens.


And then, like, I've been getting all these, you know, the problem with me is like I get weird vibes all the time and not like the last time I was on here, I legitimately thought a meteor was going to hit the earth. I guess I really thought that. So I work very hard on not listening to that part of me most of the time. But I was getting this real weird vibe from L.A. and I'm like, come on, man, you're just like superstitious.


It's it's probably nothing. And then then my wife would say, like, I'm getting a really weird vibe, like maybe I don't know if we should stay here renting, we should stay in the place.


And I didn't want to tell her. Oh, I've been getting a weird vibe, too, because I didn't want to amplify whatever that was. And then I got on the phone, Diaz, and he's like, Yeah, I'm leaving, getting the fuck out of here.


And that was it was tell me, Burbank was sketchy where he lives in Burbank, my neighborhood, during the shit, like instantly, dude.


It's like, yeah, it's it's not and it's not just any one thing, you know, it's like not just like some of the stuff I get stuff I had to get shut down and because stuff was shut down, it got a little more weather than usual.


And it's like, you know, the homeless encampments.


I was in Echo Park man.


And like, I really feel like, you know, like the red state people. One of the things they love to tweet is like, don't bring your liberal bullshit here. Right. All right.


Well, that's where I'm eating shit a little bit because, you know, I am I do still believe that we need to decriminalize drugs, that the drug policies bullshit the way we're handling.


It's all wrong, but. They used to be a way that they could get people who are like camping out on the streets and a lot of the times that was possession of like illegal drugs. And because that that stuff got removed, suddenly you were witnessing like, holy shit, man.


There's people who are making like real like a rational decision from the perspective of a heroin addict, which is they love heroin so much. You know that Doug Stanhope jokes some things are better than life. Like they love heroin so much.


They're addicted to it. They love it.


And the shelters that are apparently available won't let them do drugs in the shelters. They want you to kick it. Yeah, and so that's ridiculous.


But now I could be wrong about that. But that is what I've heard is one of the reasons these people are staying out in the street is not because they don't want to be in a shelter. It's because they don't want to be prevented from getting high. And so this has produced this like situation in a lot of the big cities, which is we're seeing like massive tent cities. And by the way, the tent city thing, aesthetically, it's not a it's not the best look.


But the stuff that I began to experience in Echo Park, where I took I took my kid to the playground.




And there's like a dude that looks like he emerged from a time portal from an apocalypse, you know what I mean? I'm not talking about, like, you know, run of the mill.


Like somebody who's a junkie who's like I'm talking like covered in like soot, like pure dilated eyes, not wearing like, you know, the disheveled clothes you might expect from someone who's been addicted to heroin for a long time.


But like wearing like like he broke into wherever the costumes from Mad Max were, like some kind of weird leather vest thing and like like creepy fucking cut off shorts.


And he had a machete. Oh, jeez.


And he's throwing it into the ground of the playground and pulling it out like he's practicing throwing a machete.


I'm with my fucking toddler man.


And, you know, it's like and so obviously we didn't go to the playground, but that was my you know, it was not uncommon in that area to see completely naked people.


Just not that that's bad, but not naked, like the way covered in dirt wandering aimlessly do even worse than wandering aimlessly, wandering with what seems to be a purpose in their eyes, some of them seeming like they're late.


Where the fuck are you go and naked that you're late for.


Like, are you being so mean?


Like that was that was OK. But that wasn't just it, man. You know, it's a lot of other things too. And it all just started piling on top of it.


I don't think this is sustainable living in giant groups of people. I think it's when when it works great. It was wonderful when L.A. was was working well, it was fantastic when the Comedy Store was packed and restaurants were doing well and the economy was doing well and the crime wasn't high, it's great. But when things go bad, there's no sense of community. So then there's a sense of like people capitalizing on other people who either own stores or who aren't home or whatever, people who are desperate.


There's just too many people. Yeah, if you're in a community that's a small town and something goes wrong, you can kind of bunch up together and help each other. Yeah. Because you feel like you need each other and you feel like you're a part of something. People don't feel like they're a part of something here. They're all transient. Everybody's moved here from someone else, from somewhere else. Everybody thinks they can go somewhere else and they can and they probably will.


I mean, I you know, we all came from you were North Carolina. I came from New York at the time. We all everybody who comes to L.A. in show business. God, what are the percentage of like how many do we know that are just straight? L.A. like Christina Brezinski, she's straight away.


Who else? Sebastian came from Chicago.


Theo came from Nashville. Nashville is everything from. No, no. Louisiana.


That's right. I mean, Joey, obviously. Jersey.


Yeah, well, Gypsy Gypsy Jazz, which is something I've always loved about it. I've loved that element of like just this wild vortex and artists and narcissists and people have just gone insane.


And like it's a lot of the sparks fly in that kind of insane cauldron of identity.


All that stuff is super cool. It's beautiful. That's one of the things I loved about it is like the place we all know this is the place is the place where you make illusion. Yeah, that was the idea. You make things that aren't real seem real and people like to watch that. That's the whole TV movie industry. The whole place is based on creating an identity that you like somehow monetize. Our studio makes you monetizes your identity or something.


It was something magical and beautiful in all of that. But not, it seems.


There is a real emperor wears no clothes thing happening right now, not just in L.A. and I feel bad talking shit about L.A. because man has been so good to both of us.


Yeah, I mean, this city is like I will always love this place.


Not the problem is on the city. This is the I've been thinking about this a lot lately. And here's an issue. I am progressive on just about every issue across the board.


Yeah. Gay rights, civil rights, women's rights, whatever a woman's right to choose.


Fill in the blank, pro Medicaid, pro universal, basic income pro, so many things. But there's a thing that happens in large cities where large cities are always blue. And I'm trying to figure this out because like New York and I used to think it's always because they're educated, you know, and educated people are more likely to be compassionate and compassionate people are more likely to be Democrats.


But there's a balance that has to be achieved.


And when the shit hits the fan, you need law and order. And I think that some people who are Democrats, who are progressive people, they don't understand that aspect of human nature or they want to deny that aspect of human nature, like when the mayor of Seattle was dealing with that whole six area locked down little small little country that they had put up barriers and shit and like literally had armed guards there.


That was it called, again, chop chop, which has. Right. The mayor said maybe this is our summer of love.


Look, no, it's not summer of love. Some people took over other people's businesses with force, like just because they think the way you think or they subscribe to liberal ideas like you, like you're a liberal, too. So this is like your gang of thugs you have to support when they take over other people's businesses. Now, we have to be able to call out everybody.


And just because somebody is on your side, you can't let them take over city blocks and just institute their own government and then say it's the summer of love. This is crazy talk and this is how this is gets get cities destroyed and this is what gets the police defunded. And this is what gets people saying crazy things like we need to disband the release everyone from prison and no more prisons and no more laws and no more police. And like, no, the way things go well is you have to be safe.


The only way you're safe is if you have a strong military and a strong police force. And there's something about liberals that don't want to believe that they see the bad cops, they see these videos. And we all agree we got to get rid of bad cops. They got to reform the police. They have to. But those are not all the cops. That's crazy. You're just want to see the bad. No one's no one's filming excellent interactions with friendly cops and compliant people.


That's not your film. Not going to get a lot of it, but that's the majority of these interactions.


But we have this distorted perception based on what we're exposed to, which is viral videos of cops being cunts, because there are cops that are cunts, because there's people that are cunts and there's who knows how many fucking hundreds of thousands, if not millions of cops. There are the odds that they're not hundreds and thousands of cunts is outrageous.


Well, you know what I've been doing with this whole fucking thing, man, because if I get because you know me, the way my mind goes is not going to be like red state consciousness when it comes to that shit.


Because when I saw that autonomous zone pop up, I'm like, let's do it, baby. Spread it out, come out.


But what did you think would be good? What could good could have come of that? Well, I mean, the history of America is it is is this beautiful yet somewhat like there's a there's a mania, a utopian mania in the heart of, I think, an American spirit, which is like Americans identify with this. You know, George Carlin did a great job of desiccating it by saying it's called the American Dream because you got to be asleep to believe.


I love that joke, but I love the American dream.


And that what's so beautiful about it is it's this idea of like I think together we can do something new that's going to be better than anything that happened before. And from that spirit, you get all great innovation that goes across all political ideologies. Right. So to me, you know, and they always call it I've always loved that.


They call it the American experiment.


Fucking love that man because it's an experiment. It's like, let's see what we could do here together. And for an experiment to work, we need to be able to look at what didn't work and the experiment and improve upon it.


Now, that being said, it's like for me, I've been trying to like pull myself out of the even though I identify as a progressive, I'm going to vote Democrat. I'm just what I'm going to do. But that being said, I try to pull myself out of that because I don't want to be cubie, old man. And I have a lot of friends who are like hard core conservatives. And I know that there is this idea. And I think a lot of the the idea gets perpetuated by people who are into tribalism.


Blue, red and south of the blue people, they propagate conceptualisation of the red people, which is kind of what you said. Well, they're not compassionate.


It's like, shut the fuck up. Ridiculous. Get the fuck out of here. These are some of the most compassionate people I've ever met in my fucking life. They would die for people that they've never met.


They would think a big problem is the figurehead. Right now, the Republican Party is Trump. Trump is such a polarizing figure and he doesn't seem to have much empathy, if any. You know, I mean, it's you don't know who he is really, because you don't talk to him privately. But his public persona is that of a winner who doesn't give a fuck and you're fired. I mean, that's that's a non empathetic perspective. And we also associate people who support him with also lacking empathy.


Then you add into it children in cages at the border and you see those videos.


You know what bothered me more than anything about the kids in cages? There was one video that really bothered me where Mike Pence went to visit like he's on the ground, like next to the cages.


See if you can find that Mike Pence visiting the border cages. Now, apparently, these cages had been put up through Obama.


And that's what's interesting about this whole border wall and border discussion and immigration discussion, because Obama, particularly when he was running for president, he was very tough on illegal immigration.


I mean, he he said a lot of the same things that Trump said.


If you listen to the speeches that Obama said people believed him and agreed with him because it wasn't a Republican talking point, it was just a safety talking point. And he was also a way that he could get people that were more like more concerned about the problem with illegal immigration or more. You know, he could he could tie that up with just saying, listen, we have to follow the rule of law. And, you know, they had these talks and they built these these cages.


They did that during the Obama administration, right? Yeah. So here's this. So these these are the guys that fled from Mexico and who knows where else and came through the Mexican border. And then Pence is standing there in front of these guys. So, like, imagine you're a dude. You live in, you know, Ecuador and you make your way up through Mexico because you have a fucking dream. Like America is the land where people can make it.


This is this guy who fights in the UFC. His name is Marlon Vaira, and he's a bad motherfucker. And he just won this weekend. And he's I believe he's from Ecuador. Right? That's Marlen's. Yes.


And he talked about it in his victory speech. He was talking about, you know, how he man, you know, you can you can actually do it. He came over here he was talking about in the countdown show, too. He came over here. He lived a year without his family, just building up money and fighting to try to get money to bring his family over. And then he brought his family over. And then as time has gone on, he keeps when he's on like a seven fight win streak and now he's like a top ten contender in the UFC.


And he could have been one of those dudes. That's right. See, this this this is not these are just people that are in a fucking terrible place and they're trying to get out putting him in cages like it just it's a bad look and it's an even worse. Imagine you're that guy who comes over from Ecuador and you're in this cage and you see Pentz, he could touch them.


You could touch him. If that cage was in there, you could reach out and touch him on the shoulder. Yeah, right there. Right. The fucking guy who's second in line to the the most powerful army. Yeah. The world has ever known the Trumps the commander in chief. That's number two. Yeah. And he's right there in front of a cage and he doesn't seem to care like play this. It's weird.


I don't know how I want him to to look, but he's not like looking at the people. He's kind of like, look, in a way he's kind of like ignoring the people. I mean, I don't know what you're supposed to do.


Are you supposed to look at them with that, fill you with sorrow and despair? Would you not be able to rationalize and disconnect yourself from the humans that are suffering? When you think about all of us, we're basically the products of a fucking enormous chain of events. Not one thing, but look at they have foil blankets, man. I mean, this is crazy shit. They're stacked in there, stacked on top of each other wearing foil blankets.


Yeah, it's terrible. And it's look at that, guys. They out as kids. Yes. And he's got a family back home with. No, no. His kids got separated from him. Yeah. That too. That's what he's thinking about.


And you know, and again, man, it's like I keep trying to get out of it, like I keep trying to get out because this is what I've realized because I love flipping through. I go from I will jump back and forth from like Fox News to CNN, MSNBC.


I'll check out some Tucker Carlson. Blast over to Rachel Maddow. Find like like polar opposites and what I feel like what's happening just as a result of the entertainment that is news is that we're getting a very non nuanced.


We're being told what we are. Do you listen to or watch the Hill? No, you should watch Rising the Hill. It's Crystal and Saagar and Soga is a Republican and Crystal is a Democrat. And but both of them super smart and really rational. And they're all they're honest and they're non-partisan and they break things down based on their honest interpretation of what's going on. And it's so refreshing. These two right here, crystal ball and soccer and get their fucking fantastic.


And I love the fact that they're friends. Yet she's left. He's right. And it's not bullshit. They're not frauds. You think your real name is Crystal Ball?


If I had my last name is Bodney, my daughter Crystal. It's dope. Come on, you would not make your magic crystal ball. Some fruits like I don't know why. Well, because they did everything.


Because you do that and you're going to like I didn't even notice it until now because I'm not name phobic.


I'm not name. My name is Duncan. I am.


How do you think I just I'm sensitive to names like that because if their real name is crystal ball, be a third grader named Crystal Ball. Had fun with third grade or you might be able to get away with it.


But 10th grade, you're going to get tortured by the time girls reach 15 crystal balls.


Yeah, it's like a never ending know anyway. What to me it's like the the propaganda, it's propaganda.


And the reality of it is like I'm trying to figure out what do we all have in common.


It sounds like a cheesy thing. And what we all have in common is we want to be happy. You know, when I talk to my my my liberal friends, they want to be happy. When I talk to my conservative friends, they want to be happy. And then you add to it. Now, this is where it gets weird. A lot of people want to be a hero. And why wouldn't you? A lot of people want to help other people.


They have a service mentality. They would they want to die for something good. A lot of people really do want to help. And then that's to me where the problems start is because that's being subverted. And the way it's being subverted is, you know what sucks, man, when you're around somebody who's telling you how you feel.


Have you ever had that happen to be around someone? They're like, why are you unhappy today? And you're not unhappy. But if you're not careful, you'll be like, maybe I'm unhappy.


And then you then you become the unhappy thing and they've, like, sucked you in a thing you're not. Yeah. And so for me, this is the danger of the news is they kind of tell us how we are, how we feel. They first of all, this ridiculous red blue bullshit, it's like stop. I mean, every single person I've ever met would I don't think I've ever met anybody who wouldn't try to help someone who is drowning.


I think most people I meet are like that. And I think that transcends politics. But somehow they've got us thinking we're all different and separate. And then on top of the thing that really bothers me and annoys me, obviously, man, I'm no fuckin Trump fan. That guy is a lunatic and he's driving people crazy.


But what bothers me is it's like, you know, for he's driving people nuts and it's just the way he said it.


And what bothers me is that the response from, like really intelligent people who consider themselves liberals is they're shaming these people, they're shaming them.


They're saying, oh, they're idiots, they're rednecks, they're dumb, they're peasants, stupid peasants.


How could you like him? It's like how they liked this guy because they thought that he was going to help their families. They were fucking they were not doing great economically. He they bought into a thing and they invested themselves in it.


And if they are starting to like it's dawning on them that they succumb to another American tradition, which is the con artist is American immigration. It's American to be a con artist and it's American to get sucked in by what happens to the best of us. It's happened to me at a Grateful Dead concert. We wanted to buy a hundred hits, a fucking acid. This son of a bitch got us a sheet of acid, convinced us to try to sell it, to make more money, to get more acid.


We left there with one mushroom stem on the way back to Hendersonville. I've been conned. I know what it's like. It's a very American thing. But it's like. So there was no acid at all.


Dude, he's no, we got we took our money to buy acid and then he's like, we could sell this acid and buy more acid.


And then, you know, we're like, yeah, let's do it. And then he sold the acid, I guess, and then we were going to buy more. The point is, like, you start a business. Well, my friend almost gave him his fucking car.


Like, this is a very charismatic hippie. He was like looked exactly the way you'd expect him. A fucking hippie bandana, big hippie beer.


Some people are good at that. And it's weird you do weird things like they talk a little too close to you. They make you uncomfortable. Yeah.


They use what's neurolinguistic programming. They like they like they just get you and they know how to talk.


You know, when I used to work at Newport Creamery, so I'd worked the register sometimes and we had lessons on how to deal with flim flam artists, that's what they call them, flimflam artists.


So they would teach you. So we had to sit there and be taught like how someone will fuck you up, like, so something would cost three bucks and they'll give you a twenty and they'll say, hey, can you give me a ten and a five and then the rest and quarters.


And you like what. Yeah, how much is that. And then before you know it, he's saying something else and talking over you and you think you owe him forty dollars. Yeah. Like you're giving him more money. Like I gave you a fifty. So you give me the twenty. The twenty and then what is it. It was three bucks so you owe me forty seven. So like before you know it you're giving money away and you don't understand what's happening.


Right. Especially when you're a kid. I was like I think I was sixteen and there was a monkey, basically a monkey.


Right. And you know, these people travel all over the place and they do this to folks. They just trick them. They pickpocket up like.


Watching David Blaine do card tricks, OK, from as close as you are to me, I don't get it. I don't know what he's doing. He could get me every time. He's just going to trick me every time he's so good at it. Yeah. And there's guys that are I don't know if they're at that level, but there's guys at a level that you or I can't perceive and they'll steal your watch. Yeah. There's guys who can get your watch off.


Yeah. Like they can get your watch off. I don't know how they do it, but it's a normal thing. So no one thing the guys know how to get your watch off fucking guys. I mean how many videos on YouTube. There's awesome videos of like children doing this to people you could see, like kids like get trained to do this. It's like they it's hacking our operating system.


Essentially, he stuffed a card into my friend Jeff's watchband and Jeff didn't even know it was in there. He's like, look, it's there. And he's like, what if he looks at his watch me like, pull it out.


And it's the car he was looking for, folded up, tucked into his watch. Ben, you're like, what did what did you just do?


So if that guy's a thief, if he was like some. Oh, this someone stealing something.


Yeah. There's a whole genre of you kids here.


Oh, boy. Look at that. Wow. Little tiny kids. Yeah. They're trained. They're trained to practice.


Yeah. They practice to do it. I mean this is just a look. We see this on the human realm and we're like, oh my God, they're children. You see a coral reef and a little fish come and take food from another fish. It's like just totally normal. I mean, it's not even this is just part of being in a hive.


You know, I just feel the guys watch as though it just happened to back that up. That was crazy work. Watch. This guy bumps into this guy.


He takes his watch. Watch this. Is that what he did? No, no, the guy still had a watch. What did he steal? I don't know. You'll never know. I'm I'm too high for this.


I'm too high for this. But I've never seen anybody take someone's watch off. But I know it's a real thing. White guys can actually take your watch off. Yeah, I mean, like one with a strap.


Well, they do the buckle. It's annoying for you to do. Yeah. Dude, I like to me, this is a natural part of the environment we're in. How many things camouflage themselves as other things take energy out of the system using the camouflage? It's completely fucking normal nature. Nature. It's so you get this Trump and you get people who fell for it. And now those people are deeply invested in that like magic trick, which he did.


And by the way, this is another thing. It's like, look, you don't have to like somebody like I don't like Charles Manson. You. Yeah, but man, I do recognize, like, how fucking entertaining he is, you know what I mean? Like, that's a very entertaining cult leader. Similarly with Trump, not a fan, the moment he said you implied you should shoot looters, all that look, we can go on and on with a.


. But I'm not I'm not talking about that. I'm saying the problem is that that our tactic as Americans is not supposed to be. We listen to the state and get our cues about how to be good. People from the state are as Americans.


What we do is we have like basic fundamental ideas that are really fucking beautiful, one of them being that we, like, believe that people have a right to be free and seek their own personal happiness.


That's beautiful, man, that we shouldn't have the state telling us different versions of what that is.


We we have to be intelligent and autonomous enough to do that for ourselves and then from that, like, really be a United States. And like what's happening now is these motherfuckers are not unifying us. This is supposed to be the United States of America. That's what it's supposed to be.


So if you're in a government official here and you're doing a thing that's making it all divided and fucked up and you're telling lies and you're shaming people for telling the truth, it doesn't matter if you're a Republican or a Democrat, whatever you are, as far as I'm concerned, anti-American, which is like man Americans and fuck anybody gets mad at me for saying this.


Americans are beautiful people. We both tour. We get to meet people all over the fucking place and talk to them. And they're always generally wonderful.


Yeah, some of them will take your fucking watch, you know, but still still, you know, in general, in general that you you encounter when things were going well.


See, this is the thing that shifts. Everything is covert.


The reason why everybody's ramped up. I mean, it's no small feat. It's not just about getting sick. It's about everybody being scared that they're going to lose loved ones or they're going to die. Are they going to lose lung function? You can't work. So you're worried about your income. There's so many people whose businesses are eroding right before the eyes, their eyes. I mean, imagine if you owned commercial real estate now, Jesus Christ, and you start thinking of the prospect of leasing a building that you invested all your money in and out.


To some folks, they're not going to have offices like that anymore. People are going to do shit from home. There's a lot of people that are actually more productive working from home. I know it's a fucked up time. So everybody's on eight. Everybody's walking around on hats trying to keep it together. That's right.


And so a guy like Trump exacerbates it because he doesn't ever come out with a unity speech. Yeah, it's always like a he's always the strong boss. You're fired on the man. Yeah. I mean, this is the message and it works with a lot of people. It's a good look. It's it's like comedy or music. Not not everything works on everybody, but there's a lot of people that vibe with his fucking real cartoonish version of being the boss.




But it's not to bring everybody together thing. And this is what we need. We need the guy in the movie that stands on top of the hill, the guy that says we have more in similarity than we do, that we disagree with a man.


We're together, we're friends.


Most people, most of our issues, we could work out amicably. We can talk most of our issues, the vast majority.


And we need to not just dwell on those, but embrace those like embrace all the things we like. We want safe schools for our kids. We want safe streets.


We want a fucking bridge maintenance so the bridges don't collapse. We want everybody to be OK. Yeah, we want no crime. You want we don't want unjust prison. We don't want people being unjustly accused and then sentenced to life in jail to the people to work forever to get them. We don't want any of that. We don't need prosecutors that hide evidence that shows that a person was innocent. That's real today in twenty twenty. Yeah. They don't even get in trouble for it.


Yeah. Man, it's right. It's true. And I think that the only.


Maybe this is naive. I think we got to get over our addiction to the person on the Hill. We've got to get over our addiction to the idea that the way we govern is the only way to govern.


That's it. And that's why when I see that. What was it called again? Ajaz. Mm hmm.


You know, again, like you said to me, it's not to me. What I'm seeing there is, at the very least, a radical experiment and a potential.


Now, it's a temper tantrum by some 20 year old kids who hate capitalism.


How old were the founding fathers? And a good question. But, you know, it didn't have YouTube and I think they would have formed a much better opinion. Well, that's the other part of it. Like so I keep thinking about and again, man, this is where my case is going to start falling apart. But that's OK.


Adaminaby case falls apart. The for me it's I keep thinking like, OK, so what are they telling us now. They're saying, well either you're a socialist or capital is they're a communist. Tell me what kind of is diam or what ism I'm into. And I keep thinking like man can't there.


Is that possible with all the technology we have that there's a new ism that no one doesn't have the first part of the world attached to it?


Good point.


So it's like and so at the very least, if you meet someone who's like and passionate in a real way, not in a bullshit way, by the way, man, because, like, there's a big difference between, like you, you know, right away when you run into somebody who's trying to tell you how to be, it's horrible.


It's a pretty even even if it's in a light way, it's such a it's so drones.


I'm like, oh, well, some people want you sick, some people want you destabilized. And like Balsom want one thing's for sure, people don't want you to know you are because if you know you are, they can't tell you who you are. But, but you know if you run into someone who's legitimately you are utopian here we go. Get ready to lose fucking viewers right now baby p this is where people a stop on Spotify go on to like listen to like my favorite murder or whatever.


But I was it Burning Man and stop, stop, stop, stop, stop.


Hey man, I am sure Burning Man is like everything else in the world. There's a lot of profound conversations and few of them that want to make you just bury your head in the sand. Definitely.


And but one, this guy came up to you getting these great chats and this guy came up to me, where does Yappin? And he said, Do you think world peace is possible? He wasn't being a missionary or just asking just asking the real question.


But it's so cliche that it seems like a joke question that a moron would ask you. Yeah, because he is funny. Yeah. The what would you want more than that? World equality, world financial equality. World peace is like four or five things you would ever say. Like, look, that might cure up a lot of shit. Yeah, that's right.


And but to ask it is so cliche like a burning man you got. Well that's a that's world peace. Well, you know, and that's the other thing. If like let's say you're at the Venice boardwalk and some son of a bitch dressed like Uncle Sam comes and asks you that you're going to go the other direction, like, fuck you. Like you're just going to leave. Maybe if you get out of Nicaragua, man. Yeah, yeah.


But but he was actually somebody he's really into Buckminster Fuller. And I think that was something Buckminster Fuller put out there, which is like this. This question is very important book. And you should you should ask yourself, this is an individual, because if you think world peace is possible, right. Even if you acknowledge that maybe right now it's not possible, but if you can invent in your mind some technology, some or even if you can invent in your mind, like an X, like an algebra for a thing you don't have the space for yet.


But it could be right. If there's any sense in you at all that world peace is possible, then from that point forward you should be part of whatever it is that's going to make us have that great utopian ideal that transcends American borders.


And because that's the other problem is the American dream thing. It's confi. It's not the American dream. It's the human dream. The human dream is the intuition we all have that there's a way for us to be on the planet together that doesn't involve blowing each other up. Right. And that's I think it's possible. I think it's possible. I just don't know how it would be, how to get there necessarily.


But I think it's possible. And one thing's for sure, whenever you get a Trump or any fucking pundit blowing out divisive shit into people's brains, they are not. If there's like a scale one to world peace, one side's chaos, they're dropping. They're dropping. There's they're Pebble's on the chaos part of the scale.


And it's like, why do you think they're doing that?


Because, man, let me tell you, there's a lot of money to be made in fucking chaos, man. There's a lot of money. I mean, isn't that what an engine is? An engine is kind of like controlled explosion.


Do you remember when Trump talked openly once about the military industrial complex?


Yeah. And they said they want to go to war. Yeah. And you're like, what?


The problem is, he says so many other things that are ridiculous right now.


If only you just said that. If only he just said that. The problem with him saying that is you can go. Yeah, yeah. But he also called this chick. You fucked a horse face. Well, you know, you and you go, oh, yes, that's nice.


He he had he had a he had a thing there like a moment, like an Eisenhower moment, not quite as eloquent, but when Eisenhower was on television, he warned people about the military industrial complex as he was leaving office. That's to this day, like one of the most profound speeches I've ever seen because, yeah, it gives me a chill because I think, well, this is black and white.


From how many fucking years ago if this shit was going on, then it's I could stop going on. Didn't stop.


We see one of the reasons why we're in such a fucked up space politically is because this is the first time where politics have been really exposed to the general public by the Internet. Like you have a different access to politics you never had before. You have real time things breaking. You find out like if someone like Gavin Newsom said he was going to take a pay cut, he didn't. Fox News prince as it goes and you get all these stories like, oh, would you have known that before?


Cell phones, the Internet, you've never known that he didn't do that. You would have to be a person who's really into politics. Yeah, and there's not that many of them. Most people are busy. So now politics relies on scandals and scandals. Are Weasel's people through that.


So the thing about scandals is not everybody's a good person. All right? And if you if you do a lot of fucked up shit, but you own it the way Trump did, people didn't count on the asshole vote because there's a lot of assholes out there.


And finally they had a king like this is a king for Magga. They wear the fucking sunglasses and they talk shit to Ted Cruz at rallies. Those guys finally had a king. And that's like we didn't there's no king on the other side. There was no king, the compassionate, intelligent king who actually made sense. Well, that's the that's what we don't have. They got so depressing. You're very astute. Observation is in the sense that the idea was we weren't going to have a fucking monarchy here.


Yeah, that was the point.


And now we elect a monarchy. Yeah, yeah. That's the whole point, man.


And it's like and again, it's like, look, if like if you start playing the game that you're the smart person in the room and that is people disagree with you. They must be dumb. If people have different ideas than you, they must be stupid. And then you start shaming them.


What can you all you're doing is creating this like you're going to create a reaction to that. And the reaction is going to be a celebration of every single thing you're with, your great vast elite intelligence deriding, you know.


And so I think, you know, that's the problem is it's like I just there's nothing worse than when, like, people who are legitimately smart have read a bunch of fucking books, have got Masters degrees, have not developed enough compassion to understand that just about every single person on the planet wants to be happy, wants to have a full stomach, doesn't want to hurt anybody, and would run into a building on fire to save somebody. Most everybody, I would say I would say at least 90 percent.


A large percentage. A large percentage. And these motherfuckers are shaming them and telling them they're idiots or they're stupid or this and that. It's like, fuck you, man. You don't know what these people came up through. You don't know these people were born in there like houses filled with fucking methamphetamine smoke whose parents were like, you know, absolutely fucking insane. And they still managed to get out and get a job and have a fucking life and pay taxes.


And now your fucking ass is going to tell these people who didn't have the fucking trust fund that you had that got you into the fucking Ivy League university, that they're fucking idiots.


Shut the fuck up. Stop. They're not. And then I'm shaming those people. That's the problem. The idea is like not shaming them.


You're just honestly illuminating their their current situation.


Let's just don't think it's shaping them. Well, yeah, it's kind of like let go with a whole, like, snooty thing. It's time also on the other side, it's time to let go of like every single one of these people must be like burning candles to Molik in their backyard thing to like. Let's let go of all those stories for a second.


I'm not saying there aren't people burning candles, Malik. I never really are.


I've never met the Bohemian Grove video. Is that Malik? Yes, that's Malti. Oh, God. When Alex Jones.


Isn't it just an Jon Ronson? No, it's Molik there we're talking about is it Molik is how you pronounce Algar.


According to Alex, Jon Ronson and Alex Jones, they snuck into Bohemian Grove. This was what everybody was saying. It was all bullshit. And I say this many times and I'll say it's more like you got a friend, Alex Jones.


He's he's made some mistakes and some big ones, but he's also actually exposed some real shit and he owns up to the mistakes he's made. They're not good. He doesn't think they're good. There's a thing about finding conspiracies everywhere that's not good for your brain, I really believe this.


I think that if you go looking for those things and that's all you look for and you look for them all the time, you can get real paranoid and real crazy. And then there's also a bunch of people that are trying to stop you from doing that because you do expose some crazy shit. You know, he was talking about Epstein a long time ago. I have a long time ago. He was saying there was a fucking island and they take all these rich politicians and some celebrities and they bang these kids.


And I was like, come on. He was telling me this a long time ago. So he's also the one who told me about Bohemian Grove. I actually watched it. That's I think this tape was actually made before I met him. So he went and snuck in to this place where, like former presidents go, there's a photograph of it's Ronald Reagan with Herbert Walker Bush and a couple other people all standing around. And it's like these are the people that used to hang out at this place and they would put on robes and they would worship an hour owl God, and they would burn in effigy and their plane.


And Alec snuck in and made video footage of this shit. And then no one's denying that it's real. This is really did happen. So they're in with these bankers and former presidents and they're dressed like druids.


And some guy brings over something that it's an effigy that's supposed to be a body, a wrapped up effigy. It's also a bunch of sticks in a blanket. But it's like shaped like a body. Yeah. And they drop it on the fire and they're all worshipping an owl.


God, why is that bad? Imagine if you saw those if that's what your business is, just finding those things. How crazy you think you get. First of all, wait. Then you add in vodka and head wounds. Wait, wait, wait, hold out. Wait. Go to the fuckin headwinds part.


What's out, Jones? OK, I got a lot of vodka and you had a blood. God damn it, man.


When I was in liberal arts school, man, there's this great teacher who changed my life, Sam Scovel, and he's one of the things he taught was so beautiful. He still teaches.


There are other things he taught was figure out a way to take in all the information and then filter out the shit that's not real and keep the real stuff.


And like, you know, Alex Jones is like, let's yeah, some of the stuff is take what's really out there. There's a good chunk of it that's real. Like I remember he was telling me the government using chemicals to turn frogs gay. I was like, what?


What are you talking about? He was yes, he was. Pesticides are turning frogs gay. And I'm like, that can't be real. No, there really.


Is that true? Yes. There's pesticides that change frogs. Genders. What. Yes. Yes. But some pesticide fucks with frogs genders.


That sucks, maybe it doesn't I mean, depends on the family is awesome for the friends to give a fuck because they've never been taught homophobia. Why would they care who they fuck?


But yeah, but there's a real thing that you find that it's it's a pesticide that has some sort of an effect, an unintended effect on frogs genders do.


That's another thing that people don't talk about, pesticides that have been used in like golf courses and like there's people who live around those.


That's a chemical dump. Yeah, golf courses are pesticide. Atrazine can turn male frogs into females.


So this is a good pesticide. Berkely changes the gender or should I say the sex? Is it the same thing with sex and gender?


Hey, I'm not getting sucked into that fucking black hole. Rogard You can keep that shit to yourself, but, hey, I'll get sucked into another black hole. That crazy, though? Well, yes.


Before we get into that stuff, I want to say this real quick, OK?


Is that camera on my friends at the Bohemian Grove future France, I should say. I just want you to know I don't know much about you. I know Alex Jones, you know, probably on vodka drinks.


I don't think he was then. I think he was sober. He started drinking. After all, he's all fucked up.


Sorry. Sorry. You had an infiltrator. Look, I went to a summer camp. We had bonfires. We wore robes.


I mean, not like maybe what you do.


I just want to say, hey, come on, invite me, please. I won't tell anybody anything. I've heard you guys are pretty awesome. Actually, what I've heard is the idea was to get a bunch of hardcore neo cons together and then make some artisan in the hopes that, like having like brushing shoulders with artists would in some way, shape or form loosen some people up a little bit. And I've also heard you have a tram that connects campsites there to other campsites, meaning you just get in the tram and suddenly you're hanging out with Dick Cheney.


Listen, I won't tell anybody I got a podcast I want you to tell Joe, let me and I worship Molik. I want wear Mark if it means hurting people, but I don't understand why people are upset about fucking by the way I take that, you fucking idiot. Why is what's wrong with me? Nothing.


This is the thing. So excited. This is the thing that I get confused about here, OK?


It's like in our country, we've got people who are Christian. Yes. And that's a beautiful thing. And I do love Jesus. I was reading the Book of Mark today regarding the parable of the Sower.


But that being said, I don't think it's fair necessarily to tell people they can't worship an owl or burn an effigy in front of an owl and some kind of symbolic, magical ritual that represents the disintegration of your negative energy or whatever it may be, I really don't know.


But that you know, to me, that's the other problem that's happening right now is like superstition is running rampant. I'm friends with lots and witches. I know a few Satanists.


I know a few people are into the occult and I don't know a single one of them that would tolerate child abuse. I don't know a single one that wouldn't kill somebody.


Some of them would kill people if they thought they were hurting kids, not in make it so that nobody found the body. Some of the Satanists I know they would kill they would kill someone probably. I don't know for sure. I'm not trying to throw any Satanists under the bus. But I'm just saying, like, this idea that we can't have alternate alternate pagan religions in our country. Right. Without immediately being associated with human sacrifice or child abuse, I think that goes against the American spirit.


It's like, look, because people don't want to subscribe to your particular, like, very popular global religion doesn't necessarily implicate them in, like, something that is truly a horror, which is human trafficking. So to me, this is the problem is like, man, we got to be a little bit more nuanced in our apprehend or in our conceptualization of these people. Again, I don't know what's going on in the fucking Bohemian Grove, but from what I've heard, it's basically a summer camp for billionaires where they try to get artists in there to, like, loosen them up a little bit.


That's what I've heard. I could be wrong. Who told you this? This I honestly can't fucking say.


Hmm. Hmm. Interesting. Look, man, I don't know. And I know. I know.


If you see the video, Bohemian Grove, have you seen it?


The ritual in front of the guy. I've seen it. Yeah. Dude, go come with me to Burning Man and you will see that. Oh for sure.


Every fifty feet. Look, I don't think it's that big of a deal. I really don't know if it involves hurting kids.


It's a big deal. And if these motherfuckers are doing anything that involves human sacrifice, hurting human beings in, in, in, in any application of that, of course, then it's the worst thing on Earth. And I'm so sorry that I said anything about it, but I don't think that's what this is.


I mean, obviously, what we're seeing is not that we don't know what else happens, but what you're seeing is them burning sticks in front of this our God. And it's like this crazy, crazy speech they're given while it's going on.


It's it's really weird. Hey, can we hear some of it?


The speech?


I don't know where the speech is.


In the video, I found another video where this, like, stabilized the footage of oh, it's like but I mean, before one before this, nobody really believed that.


Listen to me. They don't care. And all about exactly what I know. A cargo plane once again this summer. Fine. And now they're the lighting, the effigy on fire and everybody's cheering. It looks fine, Stanley Kubrick had this quote once to Nicole Kidman, I think it was there working on Eyes Wide Shut, see if you can find what she said about the elites. That he that he had said, I know I saved it, I can find it if I have a chance to look at my laptop, but it was something about him, you know, talking about the powers that run the world and that they all have something on each other and that's how they all can stay together.


They'll compromise each other. That's what Skull and Bones is about. That's all that stuff is about. So he had a much more concise quote on that. But when you see something like that, you go, well, maybe it's like fun that they do it, that nobody knows they do it.


You know, I'm saying, yeah, like maybe it's like one of those rituals where you get together. Your dad thinks it's hilarious and you both put your hoods on. You go out there and you burn the owl or you burn the sticks in front of the owl.


And what's fun is that you're not supposed to be doing it. And it's a secret, but nothing really is happening. That's also on the table. Yeah, that's possible. But it it's fuckin weird.


Man, that was weird. I imagine if there was no Catholic Church.


Imagine if you are a billionaire. That's what you're doing with your weekend. But imagine there's no Catholic Church. And there was one video of a mass. Right. We would be like, what the fuck? Right.


That's fucked up.


Imagine any religious ceremony if there was only one version of it, because I'm not trying to reduce it to summer camp fun or even like fraternity games.


There's a who knows what it is, right? We just we just know you can't know what it is.


Yeah. They have to tell us, but we just see something crazy. But it's not evil. I mean, what is it?


Well, it's it for me. It's a question mark. I don't really know. I know that my dress weird my my tendency whenever I have a question mark, is to assign malevolence to it just out of a basic kind of weakness of my own bias, like. Right. If I don't know what a thing is like, you know, when you're waiting for the doctor to call regarding some scan they just did on you, you know, if you if you have the slightest fear of death or any kind of bias in you, then that space in between when you when you maybe were overlooked in this, maybe it's like their version of Renaissance Fair.


And people just want to escape reality and pretend that they live with Molik, the owl, God, and throw a fucking hood over your head. Yes, please. And peace be with you.


Yeah. I mean, it could be some kind of, like, pagan celebration. Right.


You know, and if you look back at, like, the history of paganism or hedonism or Terence McKenna, that's such a great job talking about that. Oh, you city and mysteries. And then, you know, all these, like, things that aren't really quite as accessible is the main main religions of the world.


All the religions of the world, they have this beautiful quality in them depending on the religion.


And generally, one of the qualities is so beautiful is a mechanism of self forgiveness and a mechanism of purification that a general assessment of the human condition is being somewhat depraved. How many like the puking in ayahuasca? You're purging yourself from your darkness, the confession booth in Catholicism, maybe you could say in Gnosticism like true noticer and Buddhism like connecting with actual reality versus your overlays.


That reality here, you know, it goes on and on.


This is all within each one is this idea of like there is a way for us to ritualistically create if you want to be a pure scientific materialist, a beautiful placebo effect that gets you to drop some of your neurotic qualities or the very least reset your intention to make the world a better place and anything, whatever, that I don't care what the fuck it is, whatever it may be, if that's what what it's all about is a recognition like, man, you beat yourself up every day.


You're so hard on yourself, you beat yourself up for all the shit you did in the past. And we live in a world right now where there's not much tolerance, there's not much forgiveness, and anything that allows a kind of like steam valve from which all that shit can get released. So from this day forward, you're born again, you're brand new. I don't care if it's in our man go.


If you think that's crazy, look at like Main Street Disneyland any night. You've had some crazy shit to watch do and some people's entire lives. I'm not being like change from, like, having a great night anywhere.


So, you know, to me it's like ritual is not scary to me. What's scary to me, though, is anything that objectifies humans, enslaves humans, hurts. And so, yeah, human sacrifice, any of that stuff. And if that's what's really happening there, I truly don't know, then I completely apologize for any Sensex.


It's just sticks. The question is, was it always just sticks?


Did it used to be people that they used to sacrifice a person to? They stop doing it at one point in time.


One widely cited Nicole Kidman interview was made up by the fake news site News Punch.


You sons of bitches. Got it. They got me. They got you.


But again, I say what the quote is. Yeah, this is the quote.


He said that Hollywood is run by pedophiles or something. I read a page where it was put up. God damn. They got me on that.


Glad I asked you. Hey, you want to see something real creepy, Jamie? DMAs. You to look something up, look up the that there's a video of a van that was actually used for human trafficking, I saw on that. That shit is killing. Terrifying, chilling. And it's like to me, it's like, man, if we're going to be it.


Is there anybody who is at the helm of the ship that's fighting those motherfuckers right now deserves medals.


And I hope that they never stop what they're doing. I just want them to be very precise in their attacks, that's all. Don't dilute your position by getting caught up in something. And again, I am not I'm already going to get attacked for this saying like Douga was for the war. But I don't I don't.


I'm a Buddhist and I go to Ramdas Retreats and Burning Man, but and if they invited me to the Bohemian Grove, I go and if I went there and I saw that was going to say Stanley Kubrick to keep a secret, we tend to.


Are you saying you would go to the grave with me? Yes, I mean, anybody but, you know, if you and I were invited there and we saw anything happening, that was anything to do with like what people would think it would be a trap and they would be setting us up.


They would put on like some sort of fake thing to make us look like fools. So we talk about it on our podcast.


Do you know, man, if we ever do a movie together, that's the movie like it should be all of your friends going to get invited that we can back to? Right.


I could become friends with some guy who is like a banker who really likes comedy. Yeah, right.


And then this guy tells you he gets drunk one night like I know the Illuminati. They're real. The Bilderberg Group. It's real. Like what? Yemen. Jekyll Island.


So they made the federal and it's not even from America, man. And like what? What? And then this guy starts on unraveling the tale of America.


Can I tell you something crazy? Federal Reserve. Yeah. People in my family used to own parts of Jekyll Island.


OK, tell the story of Jack alone, because that's what I'm talking about. If people don't know it. Well, here's the problem. I don't know the story.


Like, I remember hearing something like two paragraphs I may have memorized.


I remember hearing people in my family had some claim on land there and that they sold it. And since then, I was just kind of resentful because it's like they sold it for nothing. And like if they'd held on to it, like, you know, I would be at the fucking Bohemian Grove.


And so Jekyll Island supposed to be the place where they invented the Federal Reserve.


Right. I know there's a great hotel owner.


Jamie, what does it say? Listen, this old disclaimer I got rid of look, we're all three of us are morons. Yes.


This is not that's one thing that drives me crazy. There's one of the things about silencing people that are crazy online. I can tell when someone's crazy and part of someone being crazy, as you see these crazy people and you go, oh, I think they might be crazy. And then you look in you and you go, you had none. None of what they're saying makes sense. They actually are crazy. But damn, that's pretty close.




Dude, you got to be the thing about people saying things that other people disagree with when they want to silence those people is you don't think that other people are smart as you you're thinking that's going to work on other people. Someone saying the earth is flat and there's lizard people that control the sunrise. If that was you, you'd go, OK, you know what I'm saying?


Yeah, it wouldn't work. Yeah. So why not let someone say it so someone says it doesn't work on you. Yeah. Well what are you worried about. You're worried it's going to work on somebody else. Yes, that's what I'm worried about. You worry it's going to and that's the weird thing about covid because it's the one thing where you're not allowed to do that anymore, because if you do anything that goes against the government guidelines, anything that goes against what the World Health Organization thinks you should do or CDC thinks you should do, you get kicked off of YouTube, you get silenced, everybody gets removed.


Whether you're right or wrong, it's the one thing where you can't talk crazy. You can talk crazy about the earth being hollow. You could talk about beings that are made out of light, that fly in and out of our consciousness, that's responsible for all of our ideas. Yes. And you could talk about how there's an application that's coming in twenty, twenty three. It's right now being vetted by NASA to make sure that we can use it so we can communicate with the aliens.


You can have all these whacko videos, you making shit up and no one cares. But if you say that masks don't help and what we need to do is get healthier, they'll remove you from YouTube.


Well, that's the fire in a crowded theater thing. You can't yell fire in a crowded theater.


So so like the like, look, the problem with it is to me is I like have like gone through every single stage of grief over because bad analogy, maybe a better analogy is you can open up businesses as long as you do it carefully.


I used to love you too man. I used to love I still love it.


What I loved about it in the old days I still love, I still go on every day. But what I loved about the old days is what you're saying. No one's putting a cork in the champagne bottle. It was wild. It was it was a museum of madness you had. And what was even better is the algorithm was working in your favor. So it's like punching hollow earth.


Yes. That's going to take you all the way to like some crazy deep shit. And never once in all of my explorations and the early days of YouTube was I like this could be real.


It was more like, wow, look at all the different versions of reality that people are processing. And and it was a joy.


But I think what happened probably is like people realize, like God, like what we've got, like you talk about this stuff is bad, the nightmare when it will happen, when primates figure out how to, like, use friction to make fire, you talk about it. Yes. And that's a nightmare for the planet. Like you think that fucking shit's bad. Now, wait till the chimps figure out guns.


Yeah, just fire. Just fire to make their own fire.


Think of, like, the beginning when, like, the proto hominid shift into, like, a good point, you know, this is trouble imagining.


Good point.


Think of how many people died in the beginning of, like, discovering fire.


Oh my God. How many experiments were done with fire? How many things were just set on fire? How many people just burnt?


How can eat it? I bet you could eat it. Let me eat it. I'll get its energy in my body. Holy fuck it melted his face off, you know.


So similarly, like with the Internet, we have this we have this new fire. And like people who are like in the conduits of the fire are I think they're having this really rotten come to Jesus moment where they're like because I think a lot of these, especially you look in the Silicon Valley, these people are freaks.


The early date, like the people making technology, they're nuts. I see you that Steve Jobs thing with him in a commune or whatever. These people are fucking crazy.


But I think they're recognizing that like it.


It's like, OK, the Internet is the new fire. Yeah.


And so and they're starting to understand that, like, because of them, because of their intentional manipulative coding, because of their deep study of B.F. Skinner and behaviorism, they've produced this hyper seductive semi senti and information dispersal device that is driving people who don't have the immune system to data that you're supposed to naturally get from school crazy.


That's what's happening.


And so people are going nuts because it's like, well, I had that with the addictive quality of technology, those two things together, the addictive quality of just looking at like your phone and getting information off your phone and then added to all the stuff that you're saying, yeah, man.


And it's a crazy combination.


And I think Google and YouTube and as much as like, you know, and I do think censorships, I would hate to be in anybody's position there because on one hand you're looking at.


A very liberal, very beautiful idea, which is like everyone should be allowed to say whatever they want to say, and then it's meeting like, well, but what about these hyper charismatic, seductive people who like Hitler and you know what I mean?


Like, so now you run into this terrible place of like and also we know that there's people who don't quite have the ability to discern what's real and what's not. But we this is my beef.


We allow some of that because we allow evangelist's. I heard Robert Tilden on one of his shows.


Yeah, he goes every time you write a check to me, Satan gets a black eye I could lose in my act for a while. I was like, where's my checkbook?


You say, you son of a bitch, dude, it's a badge.


And you could steal money that way. It's I look, man, I don't you know, I'm saying.


Yeah, I do know exactly what you're saying. And it's like this type of con artistry. I also cigarettes, you know, it's like this type of con artistry generally. It seems like there's some kind of grandfather clause on specific styles of of of thievery and murder.


Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Because, like, it's like they know they're killing people.


Imagine if you had bubblegum that killed a half a million people a year, just like bubble gum. But it just people are just dying.


Stop selling it. Fuck you do what you do when you're single.


People have a right to chew their bubble gum like bubbles. Yeah, that's right. If that's all it was, it's like you chewing bubbles makes you happy and everybody's dying of cancer. And this company is making five hundred billion dollars a year or something like how much they make us cigarettes. Yeah, how much. Let's, let's guess, let's guess what, how much. What do you think the end by the way, I want to say before this is a box of cigars, OK, Mike Binder gave me that and he gave me that one over there.


Another box of cigars. I'm not anti tobacco in any way, shape or form. I'm a pro free choice person. You absolutely should be able to smoke cigarettes. And I think he absolutely should be able to sell them because I don't want to roll my own. And if I want a cigarette as a grown fucking man, you can I want to be able to have a cigarette.


But cigarettes do kill a half a million people in this country every year. Yeah.


Or they're going to die anyway, right. Cigarettes kill them early or they die directly because of diseases that you can get from smoking cigarettes and their kids get sick, do the worst man.


Kids that live in Greg Fitzsimmons, he has lung problems to this day because his parents chain smoked and they lived in Massachusetts.


Told my mom did, but she quit when I was really young.


Did you ever like sex or are you in the car with her when she smoked? I must have been with a windows up.


I well, we lived in New Jersey so cold in the winter, I'm sure it was. I don't think she smoked in the car with the kids, though. Do do you mind if I have a little more than I can.


Thank you. Drink it all. So good bye. I, I remember. No, Fletcher, North Carolina medal winner. You'd go down and wait for the bus, my friend Jimmy Fink, I think it's Jimmy Fink. His mom would like let us get in her car to wait for the bus is wonderful. Very sweet. But also, I think and I'm sorry, Jimmy, if you're out there, I know we haven't talked in a long time.


I still love you, though. But like and I'm sorry if it's not you.


And I'm getting confused here, but the I just remember she smoked and like, there was smoke in the car my dad smoked. I would ride in the car with him on trips and he would smoke and you'd breathe in the smoke and like so so to me, like where and again, like this is always the problem, which is like clearly we need regulate.


There has to be some regulatory principle in the world. If there are people who steal watches their mean, that means there's going to be groups of people get together and talk about better ways to steal watches. If there's groups of people who get together, talk about better ways to steal watches, and then we create a way for them to form a thing called like a corporation, you know what I mean?


You need to regulate that. That's why we need regulation.


Yeah. So but then the problem is, is like who does the regulating and what what's the incentive for you to regulate?


Is there a financial incentive? And what regulators get paid an exorbitant amount of money.


Let's say you and I start a vape pen company that is a nicotine vapor squeeze thinking start pouring money into people who are against tobacco, knowing if we can make tobacco legal, but keep the vaping and legal, we're going to become the new tobacco.


But here's a thing about vape pens.


This is the real thing about V pens. Some of them are not good for you at all, the real bad for you.


And there's a connection, they're saying now between covid and kids that vape, kids that vape dying of getting serious covid. But it makes sense. I have a friend who's got a kid that sucks on one of them things all day long just just vapes constantly.


Kids vape and these kids that vape all the time, like the oils that you're taking into your lungs, that's not healthy.


The idea that it's not cigarettes. So it's healthy. No, it's there's a lot of evidence that points to some of those companies that make those oils. They don't do it in a way where, you know, there's like different kinds of oils and they have the different reactions to the heat.


And some of them are like my saying this. Right. Let's check on this. What is the problem with the different types of vapes? Because I think there was one type of oil that they use because they have to they have to somehow another mix.


The same with the marijuana ones you have to mix. Yeah. This stuff with the THC in some sort of chemical. But it's different. You can do it organically.


I know they've done it with coconut oil.


I know they've done it with like things like that. It's the same way with Harshman. I think it's like the way people make hash varies in some people. There's a healthy way to make it. Yeah. And obviously the way using the most chemicals is the cheapest. And so there's certain types of hash that you, I think are derived. And again, my friends out there look, I don't know, but it's something like butane. Someone told me this, that at a marijuana store, I can't remember what, but yeah, man, it's like this deep concern is the oil like what kind of oil?


I know there's one guy that was selling them that was MKT Oil. OK, here it is. Authorities in the Food and Drug Administration and Centers for Disease Control and Prevention still aren't sure what's causing the dangerous trend. But theories range from issues with vegetable oil and vaped used to the idea that doctors are just now taking note of a problem that's been percolating for a long time. So, OK, so that was the speculation that people were using.


Like, if you try to cook, OK, and you try to like, sear a steak and you do it with olive oil, you're going to fuck it up because olive oil, it's not like something that you really see or something with like you put olive oil and you don't want to get it that hot. Yeah, olive oil is more something that you'd like to saute with.


But other oils like avocado oil or or beef fat like that stuff is amazing because you can get it really fucking hot and it has a very, very high temperature where it turns to smoke.




So it's like healthier for you, the idea. So if you're misting this stuff into your lungs, you don't want it burnt.


Right? Right. You want something that's right there.


So I would imagine if you're using these cheap this is again, I'm a moron. I'm not a scientist, but we're doing science.


If they pan with, like, some really shitty canola oil and you getting that burnt spray inside your lungs like that could be terrible, terrible.


You got some fucking GMO corn syrup bullshit in your lungs.


Yeah. You know, the haunting thing, man. You go to a pharmacy, right? And you watch is the pharmacist dispenses the drugs. How carefully is right.


Like, they're like so careful in their administration of these pills because they know if like if for one second you give someone Xanax when they were supposed to get penicillin, you killed somebody.


Right. So you have to be very careful. But like meanwhile, look at us right now, Joe, did you do a test on that bottle of booze or these? I didn't even I honestly as embarrassing, I'm like, I don't know how to light this blunt, but then, like, you don't have smoking something called dad grass.


I don't know what's in it. I don't do any studies here.


I just think people love Steely Dan. I do I do love stelae. In fact, it's a great fucking song, you know what I'm saying?


Like the general, like in in America, in anywhere. The general sense is I'm going to eat it if you give it to me, especially if it's in a colorful box. Right. And then you're like, it must be OK. And the problem is, is like sometimes it's not OK. Look at Dalam.


I like, you know, look at like the big moments in history when it was shown, like, actually sometimes the stuff we sell is that solidified thalidomide epitomized stuff that gave kids birth defects, in fact.


Yeah. Or what was that radioactive shit they painted on watch. Oh my God, dude, we did a whole show where we talked about all the diseases that people got from Iridium. Was that what it was, Jamie? What was the radium, radium, iridium?


They were using it for all kinds of things and people's faces were rotting on. Yeah, literally. They have holes in their face.


They were painting it on watches because it would glow is cool looking. But so similarly, it's like they were using it for makeup, I think. Yeah. And here we have the Internet, here we have the fucking Internet.


Suddenly we have a hyper awada like super connect with every single person on the planet, but not just connect with every person on the planet. We have an artificial intelligence based on a neural network. I don't understand how it works, suggesting who you should connect with, you know what I mean? It's like is the Internet, the thalidomide, technological thalidomide. Are we looking at?


I think so. Is that what we are dealing with right now? And like, I think we're on a spaceship. We haven't quite figured out how to slow it down or the brakes are. How do you go left or right?


Yeah, but the spaceship is being propelled by thoughts and ideas and social media and world events and drugs and sex and politics and power and control. And it's all just hurling through space. And while while it's all happened, we haven't quite figured out where the brakes are or what's the best way to be harmonious with each other. So we're all in this constant battle for control, thinking that once we get in control, we're going to set this fucking ship straight and everybody's going to be cool.


We're going to be finally we're going to get along because your side won. But, yeah, you're still going to have half the fucking country that hates you, half the country that doesn't agree with you, half the country that has to, like, be really tolerant in order to engage you in any of your ideas and admit that you're right. Right. And this is what we're doing. And it's not real. It's not real. I don't think it's real.


I think a lot of the people that have ideas in one way, if they could just talk to people in in the realm of the area where they have disagreement, I bet they could work it out.


I think the problem is more people not talking than anything.


Joe, tell me about the spaceship ideas, because I don't think you say something like knowing you like I know you.


I wonder if you're saying that metaphorically or like if it is metaphorically, but it's also actual. We are on a spaceship whether we like it or not.


We're spinning a thousand miles an hour and we're driving through infinity at a pace that if you if it was small and it passed by, you would go, holy fuck, yeah.


What was if it was if the earth was the size of a baseball and it whipped by you in real time, the way it's moving through the universe, you'd be like far.


Yeah, that's what the earth's doing.


But the earth is huge. Yeah, it's huge. And yet it's tiny and it's surrounded by things that are enormous. Going to sun. It's a million times bigger than us, just a fireball in the sky that all life on earth depends on a very clear space between Earth and the sun. A perfect balance, perfect balance sheet.


This unstoppable heat. Just keep the water melted. Don't boil it, man.


And we're hurtling through infinity. And while we're doing that, we're trying to pick who gets to be the leader to steal your tax money. We're trying to tell you you can't go to a beauty shop. So I don't want you getting a cough. That's right. I'm trying to tell people, stay home, stay home. Trump trying to kill America.


Yep. It's the wrong approach.


Like the approach they're making. The approach they should make is should be all about positivity. You know, everybody who's voting knows who Trump is. Everybody knows about the riots. Everybody knows about everybody knows all those things.


Yeah. Talk about what you want to do. Yeah. Talk about what you want to do. Don't talk about how bad the orange guy is.


Tell me what you want to do. Don't use woak lingo. Don't you fucking do it. Don't you do it.


Tell me. Tell me. Yeah. For real. Don't bullshit me. Tell me what you can do to fix this. Right. Just that. Tell me you want to bring everybody together.


Just that everybody right wing left. We got to make concessions. We got to figure out like. Where we meet in the middle, there's much more than we agree with and we don't agree that much more, let's concentrate on that stuff and let's be nice about this other shit.


Yeah, that's right. That's it. That's. Look, it sounds like you know what you're saying. It's beautiful.


And it's one of the qualities as beautiful as simple that what I saw I got to see the Dalai Lama speak once and it's like, wow, you in person know.


No, he was it like an event. Right. But you were in the audience. Yeah, I was in the audience. So he was there. He was there with his translator. Was beautiful man.


I really like the vibe in the in the room was so sweet and like, you know, to go back to what you're talking about earlier, some people will tell you a stupid thing, like a thing on the side of a cereal box.


Like, I apologize for that. Be kinder for. Oh, I'm so sorry. But, you know, I could tell you, Joe, you know what the world needs. Love it.


It's I do like cliches, though. Sometimes sometimes they're accurate. Depends on who is coming, who the cliche is coming from, if they're sincere. So the Dalai Lama is on stage and he says you can always be kinder.


And it was like you could feel this wave rushing out of him. I mean, it was like the essence of Buddhism just rushing out. Everyone simultaneously thinking like, yeah, he's right.


And it transcends politics. It transcends geopolitics.


And that that is why it's what you're saying is so beautiful, because it's the same thing which is like, you know, like this planet.


We're so lucky to be on a planet, go on that fast and like we're so lucky to get a chance, a little peephole into time. We're not here that long.


I think this covid thing gives us an opportunity to realize how lucky we really are. I do, too.


I mean, for the people that are struggling right now financially or struggling with their health, it doesn't you know, it doesn't register with you. And I'm sorry about that. But I think for the people that aren't fucked by this, there is a moment where we get to realize, like, OK, we were taking this for granted.


We thought we had all this thing wired in. You didn't have it wired. I mean, they got rid of the Senate.


What was the pandemic? There was a pen. The White House decided like a year before Korona decided to get rid of the pandemic. What was their response?


What was your actual. No, like he got this whole pandemic based on it. They they dissolved it. Just imagine imagine if this an asteroid like what ones are coming? Forty years.


Fire, everybody, fire. Everyone fucked. We're fucked. Just fire everyone. More tests the more sick people. We have stopped the tests.


Just they did that. I know. I know. I know.


They are so. So from that what did they teach us. They taught us that we have to depend on each other right now, not the state.


Well, I think they should give people the opportunity to do what they want to do. I really say this too much. I say it it almost every show, but you can't tell people they can't work. It doesn't make any sense.


You you're not smart enough for you to say that you that the only thing that matters is whether or not these people expose themselves to the virus. At this point, I think that's ridiculous. But can I tell you something else is OK, I'm sorry. I'm sorry to cut you off, but they have to acknowledge is something else matters. They have to acknowledge that the financial problems that people are going through are almost insurmountable. They have to acknowledge that.


And that destroys a lot of people. That creates a lot of depression, creates a lot of suicide, creates a lot of drug abuse, creates a lot of turmoil and a lot of mental health issues. That's a fact. So we're we're taking away people's sovereignty.


Look, man, if you want to, that was another great American tradition.


If you want to kill yourself, well, you can do it with so many other way. You're welcome to kill yourself. BMX flipping. No stop you from doing flips your motorbike.


That was the whole point. I mean, that's like remember when everything got safe, like the whole point. There was a time when everything was like how Gonzo and the problem is you're spreading it.


Right? So it's not just you and your motorbike that you crash your motorbike into a creek.


That is that's one of the problems. There's a lot of that's a good way of looking at it, honestly. Yeah. But the bigger to me, the bigger that is a problem.


And it's fucked. The bigger problem is, OK, so you own an Applebee's or whatever. Right. And suddenly the government's like, OK, everyone can go back to work, but no one solved the problem. You, the owner of the Applebee's, caused the general manager like, hey, dude, get the waiters waitstaff back or open it up.


You're not going to be there.


You're going to have the general manager come in and you're going to have to wait staff come in. Now, the wait staff have been living off of unemployment benefits supplied by the federal government that sometimes are more than like what they were making at the place. That's not a bad thing. But all of a sudden, what happened is prior to a true reduction of this pandemic that can kill you, most of the time it doesn't.


But you might be the one who steps in the landmine. All of a sudden they just decided, well, we got the economy needs to work. So now your unemployment benefits get cut off and you have to go back to work. But they haven't solved the problem. So you become the person who has to bear the weight of the failed approach to the disease, and that's why it's fucked up. Yes, you're right, man. My friend runs a new California barbershop in Echo Park.


Bryan, he's one of my best. He started off as my barber. He became my best friend. He's one of the coolest people I know. And like, I like it.


Like one of the reasons I want to leave L.A. is because that shop can't open. That's where I used to go to get my beer gin in my butt wasn't his. That was out.


It's a real barbershop. And it was you have these great conversations.


You people he like, he's like got me like he's gotten me into a sublet that I once when I needed to be in L.A. for a little bit.


One of the sad things about being bald, I never really developed a relationship with the barbershop. By the time I shaved, it hit my head. It was too late now. Well, that's a good thing to do.


Can get like a nice straight razor shave yet, you know, there's, you know, good sparring about that. Right. It's like a girl with girls. It's acknowledged a lot of ladies like beauty salons, they like to get their nails done. They like to get their pedicures.


They enjoy it. Yeah, I really like. Yeah. That's all been shut down here. Right, right. Inlike like it sucks because that, that I loved going there and it's like but you know the thing is like a lot of people, it's not time to go back to work because if there is a true risk that from making minimum wage, you're going to get a disease that probably won't kill you because you're a waiter, Applebee's, you're probably going to be OK.


You're taking your vitamins, but you might be living with your aunt who has Alzheimer's disease, and you're going to fucking kill her because you picked up a little bit of it.


And the reason you're going to kill her is because you had to go back to work because your benefits got cut off. So it's like this is that this is why it's a very complex, fucked up problem that really it's like, yes, for me personally, I'm doing great. Do I want everything open? I want to go to guitar. I want Guitar Center is that I don't want to stand in line.


I want to go in and I want everything to be the way it was. I'm going to be OK. But this is again, it's like this is a complex problem. Yeah. I don't buy into the idea that the whole thing's a scam. I think we've got exactly what that asshole not.


Why do I say asshole? Too much booze. That is it.


Who was actually the opposite of an asshole on your show. I'm like calling a doctor hassel remember the Joe Rogan questions everything.


The Yes urologist who told us there's going to be another great pandemic six years ago. We should have talked about this before, but we should tell people Duncan and I were in Galveston, Texas, and we went to the Center for Disease Control and went to the very place where they experiment on Ebola and all these crazy diseases that kill you instantly.


And Duncan and I were in this building and we were watching like we watched through a window that takes you there's like another window behind that that's like this Plexiglas sealed room. And they have like spacesuits on and tubes. And I'm like, hold on, hold on. So there's some shit in there that can kill everybody.


One hundred percent like it's right there.


And they were doing tests on it.


And so these people are wearing like spacesuits and they're walking around with these horrific world killing diseases.


Yeah, man. And remember, we missed the flight. Yeah, we did. We missed the flight. We had to get there.


We were just high as fuck at the airport and the plane, the flight took off ducking it. I lost total track of time. We were barbecued. Do we take out of do not remember we did something. We were so high we might look at it.


We might have took my my customers to take an edible in the car. I guess that's because it takes time to get to the airport.


And by the time you get to the airport, the absurdity of it all just kicks in and full steam because it's like I have no control at the airport. The airport is a place where you just want to give up complete control. You're super duper duper high. That's a fun ride. So you and I were just sitting down talking about life and that plane show, we're like, where's the plane?


Like, the plane left. Like what? We didn't just miss the plane by like ten minutes, like forty minutes. It was the ultimate dumb stoner moment.


Like if we weren't on our way to film a television show, we would looked like the biggest losers. We looked like losers anyway. But but we had fun and we took one in the morning and we got there with very little, but we made it.


But being in like the Galveston, Texas Centers for Disease Control with like very different. This is the this is Duncan. This is Duncan. Went to some preppers. This is one that I really love because I didn't get a chance to be with you. So I got to watch it, you know, like from the clips and see what it was like. When you watch it, you get to be it that I was doing something else. We were trying to film two things at the same time.


I think that time, you know what, man?


I was really like not annoyed, but because I love doing the show, but I'm like, of course he doesn't show up to this motherfucker because, like, suddenly I end up deepening, I'm deepening, totally done it.


But I think it was when, like, there was a bunch of things that were trying to film when we're short on time. So we couldn't do things together. But when we did the Skinwalker Ranch one together, you were so pissed.


It was so fake.


There was the problem was when we got there, right when we got that, we heard this preposterous story from this person who's. A cigarette on the ground after you, that's what set you off. Yeah, because I'm like, this is a moron threw a cigarette on the ground in the forest. This is a moron like we drove here for. And he's lying. We're the moron who's lying. I'm like, oh, great, great. I actually asked him to pick it up.


Come on, man. I remember that moment.


But that was just like you can't it's a beautiful Utah forest. You smoke a cigarette and you throw it down. You step on it like you're not my kind of person.


Joe, here's the reason you're so American. You really do believe in a utopian ideal. And Joe Rogan questions everything for real, both of us.


This is what I realized years after we both had a sense in our heart that we might really find proof of something big.


And we went into it with that attitude.


We did, but we were so high.


We believe what we were saying, dude, that's the funniest thing about it, is like, you know, most people when they do these shows, they're not going into it thinking, like, I'm actually going to uncover something about them.


Yeah, of course, they don't go into it thinking they're going to cover something. They go into it thinking this is all a bunch of bullshit and I'm going to do I'm going to be like or maybe I think maybe it's real or whatever. But the main thing is they they don't they talk. They they pretend it's real. That's the thing that's real.


We didn't pretend it's real. And we also went into it like two guys who were more high during a show you will not find.


Yeah, it's true. You will not find this big barbecue pit. I was barbecue. We were so I dude.


And this guy, we don't need to blow this guy's spot up.


He's give me my hipster face, her voice and people love maybe he believes what he's saying. Maybe, maybe all that stuff that they were telling us they really truly believe. But they were talking about like bulletproof wolves that appear out of mist and all this stuff.


To me, that moment was when the show went south. And what was really funny was like this.


The last thing the sci fi network wanted was for you to like, actually like begin to like realize that maybe we're not going to find UFOs. And they started getting unhappy, I think, with the situation.


Oh, they did get unhappy.


There was actually a conversation there, like, is he trying to debunk these things because they have all these shows on like UFO and on Show Ghosts, and then they have this comedian asshole with his asshole buddy and they're both high as fuck. And like, this is so fake.


Like this is so but we wanted to know if we wanted to know we wanted to know if it was real or if it was a remember the alien artifacts part.


Do you remember that part? There was someone who collected all these alien little bits of yours. Didn't matter.


You don't remember? Probably. I remember I remember that because I was already given up on that point. I had noticed a pad, unfortunately, and I feel real bad.


But it was it was really a personal thing because I was dealing with my own nonsense, my own English city, my own inclination to believe ridiculous stories even today, like with the Pentagon story about them having recovered a craft not made from this world. Please don't let it be a misquote. I want to I don't want to read the misquote, man. I don't.


So I know that there's a real pull to believing in bullshit.


There's a real pull to, like, manipulating the actual facts of Roswell so that it appears the government absolutely 100 percent colluded to keep the alien crash from the general public. There's no way it can be a weather balloon. I don't know if that's right, man, because I know it in myself, because I see it in myself. I see that dirty little asshole that wants to believe in Bigfoot, that stupid fuck that like, hey, hey, hey.


Maybe it's a bear. Yeah. Maybe it's not a lost monkey species, but I want to believe so bad. So I think that this dirty asshole. But this is me. This is me. I've worked on this. Right. This is something that I've spent a lot of time thinking about. There's a lot of people out there that just lie about anything. But they the same way they want to believe, too. They want to believe in UFOs.


They want to believe in Bigfoot. They want to believe in all these things. They want to believe. Yeah. And it's not their fault. They this is they grew up in a fucked up town and the friends were probably all drunk by the time they were four. And the whole thing's a mess. And here they are stuck in this situation where they're just making shit up. And here you and I are standing there going, I don't think this guy ever really was kidnapped by Bigfoot.


Yeah. And we get to hear these ridiculous stories. There was too many of a man. We everybody we talked to had this I, I look real obvious psychological like Ben to them. There was always like. Right. Everyone and no one had a steady chassy. No one who you were talking to. Right.


Yes. You remember the fucking Bigfoot guy that said he would chop his pinkie off to find out Bigfoot was real? He was a professor.


He was a professor. After that on the podcast, we had the foot, the.


Footprint. Dr. Melchor, right, Meldrim? Yes, thank you, James the wizard. Dr. Meldrum, Dr. Meldrum. He said he would cut his finger off to find out Bigfoot was real.


Would you cut your finger off? Oh, I don't care. Listen, I hope it's not real. I hope it's real.


I don't care what you call it would be awesome.


What data set would you cut your finger off? I would cut my finger off to know if there was an intelligent design to creation on there that would give them the very tip of my pinky for that.


But then what happens and you run around with this information, can't share with anybody and you're freaked out all day. Well, no.


Then I try to contact that thing in a more intense way. I mean, like the tip of the pinky is not a bad thing to get rid of. Yeah. For like, knowing, knowing like whether there's like, again, you have to like a weak first of all, what what kind of computer are you working with that you're going to have to take your pinky and like drop it in to get truth out of it. It's a stupid computer.


You shouldn't trust it if you ever want to feel what it's like to be like three again. Make your thumb. Wrestle your pinky. You're Pinkie's like, shit, you have no power. You keep your pinky so weak.


That's what it's like to be like a three year old straining against your older brother and me.


Get off me, asshole. You got a pinky? That's right.


Is that what a bullshit little digit. What does that thing get used for?


What is it used for? So you dislocated both of them. You dislocated your pinky.


They don't match up.


Oh, dude. Oh, damn. Oh, that's weird. So one go. Oh, boy.


Oh that makes them and all sorts. You use it for holding wine. You needed to like exten when you're drinking. Yes. Look, man, very important.


I think that I don't feel like I hurt my pinky doing that, wrestling with my thumb, like legitimately.


It hurts now. So weak, so weak, I but I do so much with my hands. I'm sure the chin ups, there's some reason for somebody kettlebell grips and it's mostly these other fingers.


Even when you draw back of a bow, my boat, my my release doesn't even have a pinky thing.


A drawback with these fragrances. Bitch ass just hangs around for the ride.


You're so mean to your pinky. Why do you do that, Pinky? Yeah, I love them. They're great. I don't want to miss them, but think of a name itself. It's weird how weak it is compared to all the other digits. And they named it a pinky.


Like the whole thing is like mess that the whole thing does sound like it's a it is a very like we named Pinky itself is like, you know, fuck you up with this finger.


This finger right here is strong as fuck. This finger gets a hold of shit. This is a strong finger. This is a bullshit finger that's not hurting anybody.


We get on the same hand, listen, everyone belongs in the hands of the pinky. If you were as strong physically as your small toe.


Wow, that's great. That's life. Just everything can fuck you up. Every pebble is murderous.


Every time something upstairs, the bar way, you stub your tail, you want to die. If that's who you are, you are as strong as your little baby toe. Your little baby toe has zero power. Grab your little baby toe and like wrestle with it quick. It has nothing. It's a mess. It's a baby. Yeah, they call it a baby tokers. It's like a it's like babies are stronger than your baby toe. Yeah.


Yeah. Well let's bitch ass little limb. That's Yeah. That would you.


That's the funny thing about the human Sinton projection into time is like we're probably like the little toe of the universe, you know, like we have just enough realization to know that we're something where this hilarious intersection of like, you know, meet and what appear like a real feeling of like, you know, I do feel like bias aside, if there isn't a part of you that hasn't, like, really come to the conclusion, there seems to be a party that doesn't get touched by reality.


There's some eternal part of you that has met time and space. Yeah, I think I feel like most people get that sense.


Kids feel that. They know that. They just actually know it. But, you know, to me, I think maybe what we are in this little temporary, whatever it may be, whether it's an aquarium, whether it's a training facility, I think it's probably a training facility.


You know, like I don't think it's that I think it's a process.


And I think the process has to be tumultuous because if it's not, nothing gets done. I think the struggles have to exist because if there's only harmony and peace, everybody gets stagnant. That's right. There's there's a steady push towards ultimate technological innovation. That's the steadiest push.


If you look at the human race in terms of like what it makes, like what does it do? At the end of the day, if you have these bees and they have all this different thing, all these different social things they do and all these different things they do for covering territory and ground and all these different aspects of being a bee and laying the larva inside the honeycomb. But what do they do and what do they do? They make honey bitch.


That's what they do. They make honey, what do we do? We make robots. Yeah, we make computers. We make technology to get better every fucking year. We don't make better laws every year. Like, no, no, we don't revise that shit.


We got stuff written with fucking ink from charcoal. You know, that's what it's like in the archives somewhere. Yeah. What we do is we make better shit every year, we make better shit. And our goal is just keep making better shit. And I'm obsessed with better shit. I'm obsessed with like Indians and I'm obsessed. I love, like unbox therapy or any any of those shows. Marcus Brownlie, when they doing these Unbox videos and talking about the newest, latest and greatest technology and they're showing these one hundred and twenty hertz screens and these fucking cameras with a hundred x amazing like, wow, amazing.


What are we doing?


We're moving ourselves closer and closer to some kind of technological superiority. And along the way we're losing our humanity.


And that's the weirdest, most ironic part of it along the way of where we've never been in a greater technological era.


If you look in terms of the things that are consumer electronics, they get released right now, whether it's laptops or iPhones or Samsung, Note Twenty's or whatever, the players, these things are insane, right? Never been in a time like this before. This is like this is peaked also. When have we ever had a time with his riots in every city, every city all across the country? And it's a lot of it is things that most people agree with.


Right. You say especially if you say something like Black Lives Matter, I want to let's have a vote. How many people don't agree with that statement? Just forget about what everybody was. All the Marxist thing in these people. They want to destroy the nuclear family. I don't know if they do or they don't. But most people, I bet, who are who are a part of that movement don't even know what that means. They don't know all that shit.


They just don't want people to get. Killed by cop. That's it, that's it, and it's not like Michael Che has a great bit about it, it says, like, that's not even asking a lot. Like matters like Black Lives Matter, just matters like and people like me.


And I don't know yet. It's this is the strangest time for a socially because of covid. This is the strangest time because of the economy, the strangest time because Trump is president. There's chaos and the guy who's running against him is older than him. And you'll like this is madness. Yeah, but what is what is happening here? And no one knows when the fuck people are going to be able to go back to work. And there's all this chaos and all this anxiety.


It's all happening together at once. I know, man. I know. And that's what this is. You know, this is what I love.


Like, I work I work with a meditation teacher, David Nektar. He's he's brilliant.


And one of the things he tells me and I really this is an example of how cool is this is when all the New York Times shit came out about the aliens, I call them, I'm like David, New York Times aliens.


And he's like, wow. And then his response was, Duncan, where do you think that's come from? Do you think they're.


Born from something that was his response to me telling about aliens was the question, where do you think thoughts come from or thoughts like born like the way?


Well, it's a good question.


It's a great question. I still haven't figured it out.


I've asked if ideas were aliens. I think that if you think about a cell phone, right. I mean, obviously, this is a collaborative effort involving a lot of people that understand all sorts of different aspects of technology. But ultimately, it has to be an idea. Someone has to have the idea to come up the original Motorola phone, the fucking brick, and then they had the idea to innovate and keep getting better and better. And these ideas eventually lead to this thing that can open your car door, turn your lights on your house, you can FaceTime your kids.


It's a crazy, crazy, crazy thing. And it's all coming out of ideas.


Where does it come from? That's the question. The question is, is it an inherent part of being a human being? Because like all other aspects of human beings, we are not a single organism. We are a a biosphere.


The human organism is essentially an ecosystem. The human organism has untold trillions of of bacteria in our gut.


Right. We have it on our skin. We have all sorts of weird life forms that we live synergistically in this space as a person. Why wouldn't we think ideas be a part of that? Yeah, right.


They might very well be a part of that.


And the healthier your mind is, the more you're able to live with ideas, the more you able to bounce ideas around like ideas as a life form, just like their health. Like if you use antibacterial soap all over your body all the time, you get sick. Yeah, right. You get fucking rashes and shit because your body, it kills all the good bacteria too.




It's like, man that I loved the question because like one of my favorite acid trips was I was like listening to Beethoven.


Oh wow. Oh man. And I like, I like some, I don't know how it happened, but like I was like I had a little like this beautiful girl.


She's so beautiful. And like, I was at her house for listening to Beethoven. I was tripping and I started thinking and I was just like romantic and cool and that. But then I started thinking like.


Somebody thought of this and then I started thinking. But where did that where did it come from, like if they thought of it, what was it before they thought of it?


Like this didn't exist before Beethoven. So where was it?


And and I remember that is I was like thinking that on on the best that I still to this day, the best days that I ever had.


What's the difference? I'm not much of an acid connoisseur. What's the difference between really good acid and mediocre acid?


Apparently it has something to do with the mechanism of production weights.


Yeah, yeah. Which is like listen to like Kid Charlamagne by Steely Dan.


It's all about it's all about one of the great Ousley, one of the great LSD chemists of our time, who I met his wife and I asked her this question like, why is why is acid not as good as it used to be in the 60s? And her response was, people are perfectionists anymore.


Honey, that was literally there's also no wine before its time. Yeah.


It was like I don't I don't I don't know.


But well, that's I mean, that's a thing that we want with whiskey.


That's one of the things about Buffalo Trace who bottles this stuff. Yeah.


They they taste everything they smoked. And if it's not good, they don't they're connoisseurs that we want.


So I understand they would want that with acid. The problem is that acid illegal. That's the real problem.


The problem is you have some fucking space daddy, some dude who's at the top of the fucking helm of this spaceship as it hurls through infinity space. They they they don't want you.


They have to be space out. If it's the president of the state. That's space daddy, right? Yeah. The president of the United States is space daddy. He is the fucking leader of the greatest army the world's ever known. He's at the helm of the global empire. He's that space daddy. And he's we're going through space. So if we are a spaceship, the president, United States of space, Captain Kirk, he has to be, right.


Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's not a space daddy that's made LSD illegal. What's made LSD illegal was an earlier space daddy in nineteen seventy space.


Daddy tried to disband the civil rights movement. Yeah, but making drugs like all Schedule One drugs that space daddy did it.


But but good news. The good news is like there at least at the very least, they're letting people like, look at what it is and like how it affects the brain.


And they're beginning to understand that like everything we all knew, there's no point getting resentful about it.


But we all knew this. We all knew this.


And but we're all like it's being validated, thank God. And it's very sweet because it's a it's a healing drug, especially when used in and with therapy, you know, and it's healing. It's a very powerful, beautiful, wonderful thing that exists on the planet that anyone can have access to, especially if they, like, stop this ridiculous prohibition and lifted the prohibition.


I'm not saying like don't prohibit heroin, prohibit heroin, prohibit methamphetamine.


But even in regulation, the problem is I don't want anybody doing it.


But I should be able to tell you not to. That's the problem. That really is the problem. The problem is I shouldn't be able to tell you not to. That's right.


And certainly, like, too slippery, but you shouldn't be able to like it shouldn't be a five year mandatory minimum for LSD. I mean, that's Matt. No, that's madness. And it really does heal people.


It's a healing look. You do your like do your research, look into it.


They read Chaos. Now, the Tom O'Neil book now. Oh, my God, dude. One of my favorite podcasts over the last year I did was with Tom O'Neil, and he's Greg Fitzsimons neighbor.


It was Greg Fitzsimmons neighbor for 20 years. That's the whole time. Who's Greg's neighbor. He was working on this book. Now, Greg, never bring someone to me. Never, never says, dude, you got to have this guy as a guest ever. So out of all these years, Greg's like, dude, this guy you need to have on this guy research Charles Manson for 20 fucking years.


Yeah, he was originally just writing an article.


He was writing an article.


But as he's writing this article, he starts uncovering more and more crazy shit and he goes deeper and deeper into this, where twenty fucking years later, he finally puts out this book.


And this book is basically detailing a CIA LSD operation with Charles Manson was getting dosed in prison, allegedly. And there was he was being treated at this free clinic in Haight Ashbury that ran for more than 50 years and closed three months after the book was released. And they ran this fucking free clinic where they were dosing hippies. Yeah. And they were testing them. They ran Operation Midnight Climax. It was all part of MK Ultra. He's detailing step by step all these people that were directly involved in not just Charles Manson, but in fucking Jack Ruby and all these other political figures in history.


That's like what in the fuck all these mind control CIA, LSD experiments that were real and Charles Manson was a part of that.


Yeah, allegedly. And Charles Manson was dosing up these hippies and not taking it himself. He was using the techniques that they allegedly use. On him for like seven years while he was in federal penitentiary, what a mess this is a problem with like any time power.


I read this book, man, I look, I look, I've read a lot about that. And this one's different. It's just specifically what they did to allow Manson to run free and build these murderous hippies and get them high on LSD. This was all a part of this thing to sort of demonize the anti-war movement.


There was all these different strategies they were doing all the time. Yeah, because you take it in war seems ridiculous. You take LSD and money seems ridiculous. You take LSD and anything that doesn't have to do with love seems insane. The problem is, is like, you know, and this is, you know, all the psychedelic bullshit aside, if you just look at like basic Buddhism 101, I was in it the prior to this pandemic.


My favorite conversations were an Hubers man. And I'm writing this Uber and this Uber driver who's clearly a Buddhist. He's got a Buddhist, a Buddha statue that is like Dashboard and like so we start talking about Buddhism and we're talking about it.


And he said the coolest thing I've ever heard of regarding Buddhism, which is he's like, do you know how you look at letters? And they you think that they're a language. What are you before that is so cool? Thank God there's people like that in the world I know well, that's a true Buddhist, that's a true missionary.


But yeah, but in that in LSD will return you to that state.


So it will drop you under all of your apps that are running on the operating system of your consciousness for a little bit.


Some people hate that because they've like so identify with the apps that the moment they can't, like, cling to the app, that they become this like, you know, thing before the language, which is why some people on a lot of that can't even they can't talk. They talk about babies.


Yeah, but but what's happening is you're encountering like original sentience prior to conditioning.


And that's dangerous to any kind of power structure. Like if I'm trying to implement a hierarchy, I depend on your consciousness flowing into these rivulets that are language, morality, ethics, the entire structure of whatever. I'm like trying to like, tell you is the way things are. And if I can do that, then I can own you, because suddenly your morality isn't real morality.


Your ethics aren't real ethics. Your idea of what's right isn't necessarily what's right.


It's what's right for capitalism, what's right for communism, what's right for this or that.


If I can tell you if I can make your moral compass point away from service in any way, shape or form, I can control you forever. And so anything that gets in the way of that is really like generally like delegitimized by power structures.


I mean, it makes sense.


The problem is you're dealing with a combination of morality and a game and the game is trying to make money. When you have numbers. You know, I'm reading this book right now. I'm listening to it on tape.


It's called Irresistable. I keep forgetting the Stutes name who who wrote the book.


But I'm listen to it on audio book. It's Adam Alter and it's all about addictions. It's all about particularly how addictive games are insanely addictive, like games like Tetris and Candy Crush, insanely addictive, where they've made billions and billions of dollars on Candy Crush. Yeah, it's crazy.


Crazy people can't put it down like farmland made fucking unbelievable amounts of money. Crazy. There's something about numbers like you see, you lose your bank account.


You have got fifteen thousand dollars in the bank. Yeah. Believe this. That's pretty fucking good.


I remember when I was broke and then you go, you know what, it would be great if I had fifty. I just like to get twenty this year.


I'm just going to cut back on going out to eat. I'm going to do I'm going to put five away and then you're like, you know what, I need to make more. That's what I need to do. I need to make more money. I want to put in some overtime. I'm going to talk to the boss. When I look, I'm dedicated. I don't give a fuck. A lot of people get tired. I don't get tired.


Dude, I am dedicated to this fucking job and I want to move up in this company. And the boss is like, yes, come on aboard, slave man here. You going to work for the corporation 18 hours a day straight. You're getting paid. Well, don't get me wrong, you're not really a slave, but what you are is a slave to your own idea of what success is. You've got your slave to these. The idea that numbers equate success.


Yeah. You don't notice, man.


You don't notice. You don't notice. You get used to everywhere you live. It's nice if you live in a place that's safe after that. I'm telling you, you don't know nothing. You know what you notice. You notice when your friends are around you and you're enjoying each other's company and you're laughing and having fun. You notice those things? Yeah. You notice if you do something, then people enjoy it. You notice if you have a good interaction with someone at the store, like they go, no, you.


And then you go, no you. And then you both smile and laugh and everybody's you have it. That's those are nice moments, man. We have those. We still have those. Like you let somebody in front of you and they give you the peace and you give them the thumbs up. And these moments are still here, man. They're more than they're not. It's not like everybody is stabbing everybody. Everywhere you look, most of the interactions that people have with each other all over the place are positive.


That's right. It's a very small amount. The problem is, is small amounts. Make it on fucking YouTube and then that's all I can watch. There you go. I just watch these fuc