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Again, go to athletic Greens Dotcom Rogen to claim the special offer today. My friends, my guest today is a hilarious stand up comedian.


He is a part of the Legion of Skanks and he knows a lot of shit about politics, which is weird because most of his friends are knuckleheads.


And I say that with all love and due respect, please welcome the great and powerful Dave Smith girlfriend podcast, The Joe Rogan Experience, trained by Joe Rogan podcast My Night All Day. What's up, Joe, back? Good to see you. Good to see you. What are you doing in town?


I came in, I was doing my buddy Scott Horton show and hanging out with him for a little bit and looking for a place to escape.


Yeah, exactly.


New York Schultz told me that New York is like they just won. World War Three people are dancing in the streets.


I was there in Union Square the other day. We did a show at the stand and it was the day they called it for for Biden. And as much as I just despise Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, it was kind of nice for the city to just have one just to have a day.


It's the only day that it's felt happy there.


Since March here, two people are honking in the streets. I went to dinner with Tom SIGIR. He was in town and we were driving down streets.


People were honking and cheering and people were so happy.


I'm happy for people to be happy. Yeah, like that. Even if they're happy for a stupid reason. Well, you're like at least be happy.


It's just it's too complicated.


And you're a guy who knows a lot about politics and the way the world works, but it's too complicated to really go into depth about it for most people.


So, so many people just have this sort of cursory understanding of politics and then they follow a narrative. The narrative is Trump is bad, you get him out, Biden's good, and then you go, yeah, well, what about the crime bill? What about the Iraq war? What about this?


And then what about what she did that nobody wants to hear it.


Nobody wants to hear all the all they want to say is the good guys won.


Now we're going to go back to being America again. Oh, yeah. And then Pfizer announces a new vaccine. Ha ha ha.


Well, it would be nice if we could go back to being America again. I think we're still far off from that happening. But you're right that I think most people and this is it's not just politics.


It's true with everything in life, like most people have expertise in very limited areas. And for everything else, you're kind of just trusting what somebody else tells you.


Yes. And especially with politics. So I know very little about it. Even though I've read a lot about it. I'm still I'm like, what is all this you need? You know, there's some thuggery going on.


And, you know, there's a lot of special interests and there's a lot of money and there's a lot of shenanigans. But it's like to really know how this stuff works, to really understand lobbyists, to really understand how bills get passed, to really understand Congress, to really understand the Senate, like you got a deep dive four years.


Yeah. And then you still don't know a lot of it. I mean, you know, you can go based off, say, like what's been declassified that the CIA has been doing, but what do we not know? I mean, there's there's a whole lot that we don't know.


But I think we know enough to go to know that it stinks, that there's a lot of corruption.


And in many ways, I think that's what Trump, at least the people who support Trump saw him as is the guy who was outside that system, who was kind of fighting for them, not saying that's the truth. But I think that's what a lot of Trump supporters saw in him.


Yeah, that was the simplistic comic book version of what Trump was to them is like. And that's where I like that Kuhnen stuff all comes in. And, you know, people thinking that it's really like this plot to stop child molesters and.


Yeah, well, and and the the system is always corrupt enough to give cover to the wildest conspiracy theory because they are already, like you could say, OK, well, perhaps, you know, Kuhnen conspiracy theories believe some really crazy shit, but then you just go.


But look at what happened with this Jeffrey Epstein guy.


I mean, there really was this child sex trafficking ring that was covered up. I mean, we have that woman on ABC News who was basically saying, I broke the story and my bosses told me, no, I think it was NBC was NBC. Yeah, we broke the story.


But, you know, they wanted to protect access to the royal family so we would let a powerful multimillionaire or billionaire child sex trafficking ring leader go skate because we wanted access to the royal family.


The fact that how about that video where the interview where Princess and Prince Andrew and Princess Press is generated.


I'm so sorry.


Prince Andrew is on television with that lady and they're asking him questions about whether or not he was there and what happened. And you could see this look in his face like he's never really been questioned before.


Yeah, the fact that he agreed to do is so weird.


Like it's almost like he doesn't understand what a trap is, OK? I've never been trapped before.


I'm a royal. Yeah. Is he a royal anymore. They kick him out somehow. I'm not sure. I'm not sure they can kick you out. Yeah, they can.


They kicked out the the doodah hooked up with the actress.


Yeah. He, he wanted to be. I think he left, I think he left too. But he wanted to go back for something they will not sign your done.


Wasn't there something recent Jamie when there's some weird which ones he Harry or is that a Harry Potter. I think in Harry Potter.


I think you're right, Harry. Yeah, I think confusing with Harry Potter. I just think it's fucking so preposterous that we literally don't know anything that guy's done other than that he's a prince.


Prince Harry saddened and disappointed that his request for Remembrance Day wreath was denied. Oh, no.


The Duke of Sussex, Sussex. You know, we spend a lot of time look at names. Sussex. Yeah.


I was saddened and disappointed at the decision to snub his request for a wreath to be laid out at the National Memorial in London.


Man, the level of suffering you must go through to get his royal wreath and did not attend. Mm. Yeah.


I wonder why. Yeah, I don't think they let him. Decorated war hero, what's Prince Andrew is a decorated war hero. What did he do? That's news to me.


I pressed buttons that led to victory.


Yeah, I have a feeling the prince wasn't on the front line. We were just like throwing him out.


He's a Royal Navy helicopter pilot in the war with Argentina to recapture the Falkland Islands in the 1980s and returned as a hero.


I didn't even know there was a war with Argentina that 1980s, I remember the Falkland Islands, I remember the name. Yeah, this smells like bullshit to me. I don't believe he's a war hero for a second. I'm a war hero and a royal I demand a 16 year old girl.


Well, when you say it like that, I mean. All right, we'll see what we can get you.


It's just amazing that that guy roped so many people into that shit. Mm hmm. It's real weird, man. It's real weird when something that creepy turns out to be true.


Yeah. And it's very revealing. I mean, it's like so if you had an honest press, you know, if they weren't every bit as corrupt as those conspiracy theorists think they are, you would think that the fact that say, like a former president was on his flight logs would have led to a huge scandal where they would really want to get to the bottom of that, you would think right now they'd still want to get to the bottom of that, like, hey, who else was involved in this?


What is it now? OK, he was on his plane. We don't know that. That means that Bill Clinton was involved in the worst aspects of it. But you would think the press would at least want to find that out. And there's very little interest.


No, because the press goes after Bill Clinton than Hillary Clinton gets somehow and the connected to it. And then that could sink Joe Biden and Kamala Harris.


And that's bad for the people that hate Donald Trump. Well, that's for sure. A big mansion to be demolished. Oh, my God. Local real estate developer says he's in contract to buy the waterfront estate and his plan to knock it down and build a new home. That's a smart move.


Twenty two dollars million. Oh, shit. Yeah, well, it's expensive down there. Meanwhile, it's going to be underwater in like five years, according to Al Gore.


Right. I also already left it to a Christian group, which I was trying to find to I don't know which one of those two stories. This is in The Wall Street Journal. So I believe that over the he left it to someone.


Do you think they just have to knock it down just because it's his? So they kind of have to. Yeah. Do you think it'd be awkward if there was like part of it they wanted to keep?


When I was looking at real estate in Boulder, the house where the little girl was killed, what is her name?


The little girl who was in the JonBenet Ramsey. That house is been for sale forever. They can't sell it. I think they even changed the address. They might have even changed the name of the street trying to sell it. And they just couldn't sell it because I remember we were looking at it like this house is nice, like it was so cheap. It's one of those deals.


And then you find out you're like, oh, fuck, because if you can afford a nice house, you'd probably prefer not the one that a little girl was killed. And nobody wants the house. Yeah, nobody wants to do it.


The one in New York, it says it's listed at eighty eight million. I'm going to buy it. I'm moving to New York to move the show in New York. I'm buying it as long as it comes with the painting of Bill Clinton in the book. Yes, I heard it said it with a lot of equipment, so we should be able to do it.


It looks good. Yeah, it's dreams, right, to the CIA.


You don't even you don't even have to get them to watch you on YouTube. They get a they get a live feed. Yeah, I'm gonna buy that house.


All right. Forget it. Why not? It's probably epic. It's probably a really good investment. Probably worth eighty nine million eventually. Yeah, and then 70 percent of it's already gone up.


And then if you try to sell it, it'll be like, oh, this was Joe Rogan's place. So it won't have that Eppstein, you know, stink on it anymore, right?


Oh man. I think it's a good move. I support my guy, see if I can make it happen.


Mm hmm. I wouldn't buy a fucking newsstand in New York City. I don't believe in New York City anymore.


I don't I think that de Blasio guys run that place for a solid ten years.


Yeah, I think you're right. I think we got the fans on the right. I smoked a cigar. They were all good. Doublecheck. Oh, yeah. That's for sale right now. Gargantuan New York City mansion, home to horror's.


You can rent it. Thirty thousand dollars a month. Yeah, that's what we need to do is rent. It could do a month of podcast.


You know, we should do we should fill it up with homeless people that leave, just rent it and just let it let homeless people live there. Just tell them we want one room to do the podcast and then we'll have security that make sure the homeless people don't go in that room. Everything else you do, whatever you want.


Now, that actually sounds like a Bill de Blasio plan that you're putting into effect. That's more or less regressive.


Yeah, it's progressive. Yeah. There you go. We did that.


They probably give you a freakin metal. Bill de Blasio would probably celebrate you for doing that, guys. You know, that's not his real name. Yeah, I do know that kind of German name, huh? Yeah. Yeah.


It's very, very weird guy. Oh, he's a weird and really committed to his weird ideology that he wants, you know, like to not just when things get back to normal, they can't get back to the regular normal. It's got to be this more, you know, inclusive, normal. And so he's taken it upon himself that he's going to try to remake New York City in his progressive image while the city's going through the worst year it's been through in my lifetime.


He's an odd duck. I don't know how he got there. I don't obviously don't live there, so I don't understand it. But New York City, tell me if this is true.


But I'm pretty sure, Jamie, that one percent of the people in New York City. Fifty percent of the taxes.


That sounds reasonable. Yeah.


The fact that you could piss those people off and still be mayor is hilarious. Yeah, like, how does.


Well, they still only get one vote each. So, you know, that's kind of the way it works, you guys. Q Well, you just said you like it really works that way.


It's just one person, one vote. That's it. No one has any additional influence at all.


Well, no, but I'm just saying that if you can win elections by playing to the other to other people and also that, you know, some of those people kind of like the progressive, right.


Look at this.


Look at the statistic. It's bananas, the highest earning one percent of New York City residents generated 43 percent of the city income taxes and 51 percent of the New York state income taxes collected from individuals living in the city. As of twenty sixteen. That's crazy.


So much money. And then you hear all this stuff about paying your fair share and it's like, so where exactly does that come in? Is that not enough?


Well, that's like L.A., right? It's like a lot of people felt like even though the taxes were exorbitant, it was worth it because L.A. pre covid was pretty bad ass.


You know, the Comedy Store for us, like, obviously comedy centric, but the Comedy Store was open. The restaurants, restaurants were amazing. There's so much so many things to do.


You know, it's just. Yeah, it's crowded. Yeah. But it's the people are cool as fuck. It's like there's a lot of good things.


And then as soon as covid hit, everybody was like, why are we here.


Yeah. Like why am I paying so much. And then they start talking about raising the taxes to sixteen plus sixteen plus percent state taxes.


That's more than I give my agent. Yeah. Right. Imagine. Yeah it's crazy.


Well and it's, I think that also happened I think even more so in New York because when you know, like New York it's the same thing, it's like well it's expensive. You pay a ton for your rent or to own or whatever.


But, you know, it's like the best museums, the best nightlife, the best food, the best all these things.


But then all of a sudden when the lockdown's hit now people are like locked down in a one bedroom apartment that they could get a house for. Yeah. You know, anywhere else in the country. And a lot of people started to question, why am I here?


And people started looking real pale. A lot of my friends that lived there, they would go out very rarely. And when you see them, they'd be like real sunken in. And like, that is the worst look for your immune system.


I mean, you're not getting any vitamin D. Yeah. You're not out there at all.


Oh, that's the terrible irony of this whole thing. Right. Is that it really ended up fucking over so many people's immune systems because the worst thing you could do, like the best thing you could do for covid is, is have your immune system in good shape. Yeah. And the worst thing you could do for your immune system is like stay inside all day, be in a constant state of anxiety, don't get sun, don't get fresh air, eat like shit, drink too much you know everything and have no money.


Right, because you're out of work. So incredible pressure on you.


Yeah. And I mean, we may never know exactly what the total human cost of all of that was, but we'll we'll get more of a sense of it over the next few years.


Yeah, it's sort of a disingenuous argument because they're comparing the total cost of the lockdown to the lost lives because of the pandemic. The problem is, if there wasn't a lockdown, the loss of lives would be far greater. And so you're comparing it to a different thing?


Well, you know, because it sure shouldn't lock down. No one should have ever locked down. But if they didn't lockdown, how many more people would have died? It's a real good question.


No, it's very it's a lot of people like to make this a simplistic calculation. And it's an enormously complicated one because there's many different variables on both sides.


So how many lives were saved by locking down?


I think that's very debatable. I don't really know that it's a but I don't claim to know, you know, for sure.


It was some quite possibly. But then you'd also have to look just first apples to apples. How many lives were lost from the lockdown? And I've read stuff I was reading the other day. It was in England, but I'm sure the same is true here, that cancer screenings have like plummeted over the last year. So now there's going to be all types of preventable cancers that are going to we won't know this for years if we can ever really trace it back.


But a whole bunch of people will die from that. Depression has been way up. You know, suicides seem to be going up.


There's all these different costs. And then, of course, what is the cost, the human cost of destroying people's livelihoods.


And it's very, very hard to weigh these things out.


And as you pointed out, you'd have to weigh it versus the cost of lives without the lockdown. Not necessarily with.


But it's it's like with a lot of these other issues, people like to make it a very simplistic well, if you want to prevent the the virus, you have to be for the solution. Right. Same with like climate change. If you want to prevent climate change, you've got to be for the Green New Deal. But the truth is that the real answer is like, well, what is this going to cost versus what is this going to cost and which one is worse?


Yeah, which is sucks because you have to think, well, it's really important to have lively debate on these things. And one of the things that's going on now is people are trying to shut down debate. They want you to agree with their side.


And this is something that social media is really reinforced, right? Like social media, echo chambers. They want you to be on their side. And if you're not on their side, they'll just hit you with a bunch of bullshit about why you should why you're on the wrong side of history, why you're a bad person.


We were talking before the podcast about lists that people are making about people who supported Donald Trump or people who voted for Donald Trump or people who worked in the administration, that making these lists and like literally black lists, like they have no irony about suggesting these black lists, like you're going to Soviet Russia type shit like this is.


Right. And meanwhile, Joe Biden is saying in his acceptance speech that, you know, well, now's the time to bring everybody together, you know, like we all need to be one, yada, yada, which is kind of a nice thought.


But it's it's a little hard to take seriously when all of these people in your party and who have been, you know, supporting you have been calling everybody else on the other side, you know, white supremacists, Nazis for for the last four years to now that you're claiming you won, say, hey, we all have to come together.


Meanwhile, other members of your party are saying we got to create lists of people who like this.


Well, he said, yeah, you know, a pretty influential member, very of the Democrats, which, you know, she's made herself, like, huge. She can be president.


I don't know about that. She could do it. She's not very popular outside of her district.


I don't know about that.


I think with young people she represents like this this idea that someone like her young, hard working out there, hustling, seriously progressive values that you can get pretty far and certainly in the public eye.


Well, you certainly can do what she's doing. I mean, she's proved that, like, you could go to a very blue district and and primary one of the most establishment Democrats and rise to national prominence. So she did that. I don't know right now in the country. I think AOC would have a really tough time getting elected on a national level.


But maybe she's only 30 and saying, yeah, so she's got a lot of time. Boy, when I was 30, I was so fucking stupid. Kind of amazing now that I'm not that stupid now.


I'm fairly stupid now. But boy, when I was 30, I was dumb.


Yeah, well, she has a little bit of that too.


Yes, well, everybody does the dirty you know, Bridget Fennessy Bridge, Bridget Fantasy was read some of her writing that she wrote when she was 24. She's like, oh my God, I was basically AOC.


She's like, I was such a lefty. I was so delusional. She goes, and now I'm just so much more of a realist.


I'm my worry about this Biden thing is that people voted for Biden because they hate Trump. They didn't vote for Biden because he's a leader that they respect and they want and they admire and like he's going to lead us out of it.


Like if Obama was calling for unity, if he was the guy that was the president and he was calling for unity, we've got to abandon all these ideas, you know, about division. We're all together. And he brought everybody together again.


That might work. That might work.


People might recognize that this really intelligent guy with this message of unity should be listened to.


Well, but that did happen, right? I mean, that happened in 2008. That's what Obama said when he won. And there was some decent amount of unity. I think he had over 70 percent approval rating when he first came in. I mean, it wasn't certainly anything like the country is now. Right. But at the end of eight years of Obama, you had a Republican House, a Republican Senate and Donald fucking Trump elected president.


So we had that. But it didn't matter because even with such a charismatic guy like Obama calling for unity and saying a lot of the right things, at least at first, the the policies and what was actually happening in the country were really fucking over huge numbers of people.


And then also things that might have been somewhat out of Obama's control, but not completely out, is that the era of it was like like the Obama recovery, which was the most like crony corrupt recovery ever.


And the WOAK lecturing all rose up at the same time in the Obama years.


Not all of it his fault, but some of it is.


Do you see that Kamala Harris has her gender pronouns in her bio? Oh, yeah. I don't know.


Oh, yeah. She's I saw her say that in a CNN town hall when she was still running for president, she came out and just no one even asked her. She does. When I'm Kamala Harris, my genders, are she her know what the fuck?


No one is going on? No. Do you see what Janice Poppa's wrote? No, he wrote my my gender is he ha is like going to start a trend here. I recognize. Is he. Ha. It's great. I take that on too. I might, I might do that. He, I like it.


It's a very strange. Strange.


It is. It's in his bio. He has silenced scientists and journalists, he wrote.


That's fucking great. It's hilarious.


Mm hmm.


I think, though, people like they if you really did care about unity or whatever, which I think is like something that maybe we should care about a little for sure. I mean, not that we all have to, like, agree on everything or I don't like this. We don't have to all be one and all have the same, you know, attitude about everything.


But when you see what's going on in the country over this year, the culture wars shit is really scary.


And like people should be appropriately concerned about that when you see what's going on in, like what was going on in Portland this year where you had, like, that fucking, you know, like like militias facing off against each other, you have like the antifa versus the proud boys type shit. It's like we're it's like they're playing pretend civil war.


Yeah. You know, like it's kind of a game. They're laughing. Right. But it's kind of not that far off.


You know, people got shot and killed. Yeah. Yeah.


And there are people on guns staring each other down. And for everybody, for every sane person should be like, you do not want to see a civil war in this fucking country. I don't care how much fun you think this is right now in the moment, you don't want this to actually come to you holding your buddies head while he bleeds out and screams for his mom like you don't want that. So the idea of toning that down is is a good idea.


But I think the only way to do that is to understand why Donald Trump was president to begin with. And that like to me, the big story of all of this isn't that Joe Biden looks like he's going to be the president. That's kind of boring to me. It's like, Joe, that Joe Biden got elected.


He's been getting elected for fucking almost fifty years, like, OK, the story is still that Donald Trump won the presidency and then four years later got like millions more votes. Then he got the first time and almost by the by a hair almost won it again. I mean, that's like pretty fucking crazy.


Did you see when he was in Pennsylvania and he drew 53000 people to his rally in central Pennsylvania? Yeah.


And they start off the first like four minutes of it are a chant. We love you. We love you.


I mean, like. What the fuck is that what's going on here and to just kind of dismiss, like the corporate press attitude is like, well, it's racism.


I think I think there's a little bit more failure of the education system.


Yeah, I mean, I, I always I always agree with failure of the education system. That is always an acceptable answer.


But I think a big rejection of looting. It's a rejection of the culture. It's a rejection of being called a racist and being called a fascist. That's a big part.


It's a lot of the what this this call for a radical shift in the identity of America?


Well, I think that's a huge part of it. I also think that if you're the WOAK lecturing is almost like just the insult on top.


Like if you're one of these people who lives in these towns you've seen for four decades now, like factories disappear, jobs get outsourced, the life expectancy has gone down, suicides have gone up. You know, you're one of these some guy in central Pennsylvania. We're all over the country. And what you know, you probably lost your job.


Now you're working a shittier job. You never really came back from where you are after 2008. Maybe you got a son who's addicted to opioids. You've got another son who, like, you know, has never been the same since he got back from one of these stupid wars.


And then after all that, the people who sent you there are now lecturing you about your white privilege and then Donald Trump, all it really took was Donald Trump came in and said, you know what?


I'm for you. I'm for you, I'm not for the Mexicans or the Muslims, I'm not for this, I'm for you. And I want you to win like animalistic message. Sure. That's one of the things that he got across. He he boiled down the whole thing to make America great. Again, that's a simplistic message. And to people that want to sort of like they really, you know, some some country music songs.


By the way, I'm a fan of country music. I like a lot of country music, but a lot of country music.


I don't like because I know what you're doing.


You're just trying to box everything into this real simple. We're going to go down to the lake. We're going to have ourselves a drink, know, like, you know, I'm saying we're going to take my truck. Everything's going to be great. You know, I miss my grandma.


Like, there's like this simplistic, really boiled down world view.


And it comforts people because people are scared of nuance and they're scared of they're scared of the complexity of life. Yes.


And Donald Trump was a master at that, boiling things down to a real simple slogan, a real, you know, simple phrase that that people can wrap their heads around and get behind.


But there's also that on the opposition to Trump side, where they try to boil things down to like, well, it was racism or it was white supremacy or something like that.


You know, like there's a lot more going on here. And I really think that.


If like there, these people on some level recognize that they've been screwed over by the establishment, forgotten by them, and that they they are hated by by the establishment, which is true, like they're right about that.


And so they wanted someone to fight for them. And I think Trump represents that to them. I don't think he really was that from my perspective. I think it's kind of a con artist.


But I do think that he tapped into something that's really powerful and that actually could get a lot worse if there's not some kind of like reconciling with it.




How does it get better now? That's the real question. Like because. What like how does it get better with Biden and Kamala Harris? I mean, unless people start rejecting, unless people realize that things aren't going to change for the better with them in office?


Well, that's I think that is that realization is going to come about a year and a half to now.


Yeah, something like that. Maybe, maybe even sooner. Because things go you know, things move fast these days.


But I do think that one of the things that's interesting with Biden and Kamala Harris is that a lot of these, like super progressive people, are celebrating right now because Trump what was out, you know, and so Trump was defeated and they feel like they helped get Biden and Kamala Harris and which they were certainly a portion of helping them.


And then Trump also is the one who is saying like, well, you know, Joe Biden, he's just a Trojan horse for AFSC and Illinois. Omar, he's he's a Trojan horse for socialism, which is actually complete bullshit. Joe Biden, if anything, is a Trojan horse for Dick Cheney. Joe Biden is a Trojan horse for the establishment warhawks, big banks, corporate elite, tech giant, the People's Business Council.


Yeah, it's going to be them. He's fill in his cabinet with Republicans. Mm hmm. But those Republicans but those Republicans are the ones who basically caused this whole mess to begin with.


One of the things that that Trump said during his campaign is saying, talking about how much money that Joe Biden raised, he said I could raise that money, too, but I'd have to make those deals and then I'd have to be compromised.


And when he was saying that, it was like he's right, he's not wrong about that now, wrong about that, because if he decided to play ball with all those guys. Like they would have got behind him and then the narrative would have switched. Yeah, that's for sure. And it's interesting, it's a really important question that people might want to, like, ponder even people who really hate Donald Trump and you can really hate Donald Trump. That's fine.


But you might wonder why it is that the establishment hates him so much.


And I like my guess is that it's not for the same reasons that your left wing friend hates Donald Trump. Like I don't buy for a fucking second that the CIA and the Republican establishment hated Donald Trump because he said mean things about Mexicans. Like, I just don't buy that for a fucking second. These are people who will slaughter brown people in Third World countries and lose no sleep over it.


Like I don't buy. That's why they hated him. I think what they hated about Donald Trump was that he was a wild man who would blurt out things and he'd blurt out a lot of crazy shit, but then he'd also blurt out the truth. And that was something that nobody you're not supposed to say that like when Donald Trump was running in 2016, you know, he stood and the Republican primary debate stage in South Carolina, Republicans in South Carolina and looked at Jeb Bush in the eyes and said, your brother lied us into war in Iraq.


And everyone was like, what the fuck? But you can't say that at the Republican South Carolina and all the pundits, all the media class, they were like, Trump's finished now because you can't these are the people who thought the war in Iraq and these are the most pro military people around.


And the next day at the at the primary, Donald Trump took 60 percent. And all the other Republicans, all 12 of them split the other 40 percent.


Imagine if he didn't say a lot of the dumb shit that he said, like the shit about McCain. Like, I like people don't get caught. Well, imagine he didn't say that. Imagine he didn't say the dumbest shit, the dumbest shit that he said.


Remember the Gold Star family, the family where the Khan family. Yes. Yeah.


Where where did he criticized the family about? Forget what the exact it was.


They spoke at the DNC and then he started trashing them. Yes.


And their son died representing this country in war. And everybody was like, well, that's it. He's he's done.


Nope, wasn't nope. Wasn't done. Imagine if he didn't do that.


Well, by the way, when that happened, I remember just screaming about this on my podcast, which I was just like the response was right there. And it took him like four days. But eventually he did get it right where he was just like, yeah, they died in a war that Hillary Clinton supported. That's the response.


Is this a new one? Trump suggests Gold Star Families may be to blame for his infection.


Think it was a second thing? Oh, yeah. Now, this is a different thing than what we were.


This is about the president who is counting on support from the military members and their families, suggests that for a second time in a week that he that they might have spread the coronavirus at the White House. Also, this is different Gold Star Families.


Oh, that was the only thing I would say. Is that a real direct quote? The problem is I don't. Yeah, you got to ask New York Times.


New York Times has gone full. Wolke.


They want to hug me. They want to kiss me. And they do. Frankly, I'm not telling the back up. I'm not doing it. But I did say it's obviously dangerous.


OK, right. That's not exactly inflaming them. Yeah, that's not the same thing. He's just telling the truth. Yeah, see, that's the other thing, too, this this quote that they keep Istat, they keep reiterating this thing. He had disparaged American troops who died in wars as losers and suckers is there.


But they're saying this in quotes. Yes, because it was quoted by some anonymous source who claims that he said that, yeah, but that is how do you do that?


Multiple sources see, but you can say that you can say multiple sources, but unless the people go on record, it seems like a very disingenuous thing to say.


Yeah. Well, did you see the one the guy who was is not my Bronco? No, you're absolutely right.


Do you see the guy who revealed his identity? Who was the guy who was behind that New York Times story? Yeah, and I said high level. Yeah, anonymous. They said high level executive. And then there were all these people in the media speculating and they were like, well, the New York Times wouldn't do this unless this was a really high level person. It was basically like wink wink. This might be pense this might be, you know, Jared Kushner.


This could be anybody saying this shit. And then it turns out it's like, oh, this was like some guy who was once a chief of staff at the Department of Homeland Security.


Now, I'm not saying that's nothing, but it's not at all what you were kind of making people think. So I think it's a very shady way to do journalism.


And that's one of the things that I think is like one of the bright spots of the Trump administration.


One of the best things that he was able to draw out was how agenda driven the corporate press is.


And you can agree with their agenda on hating Donald Trump. Maybe that's how you feel, but it's still something to everybody knows now that they are agenda driven. They're not here. Like we just give you the information.


They're activists. Yes. That's the rise of the activist journalist, as I understand from their perspective, that they feel like they have this platform to do a good thing.


But I feel like you do the best thing by telling the cold, hard facts and letting people who are actually advocates or actually advocates, activists, rather, do the the activists work with those cold, hard facts?


I have no problem with that. If you want to be an activist, go be an activist. Yeah, but just be honest.


As a journalist, though, I think it's very it's real slippery when you do things like that, like like those quotes losers and suckers, unless you know who said it, unless they're willing to go on record and say, I heard him say it, then you don't necessarily have a story. So I'm saying. And how did he say it? But yes, what were the what was the.


And particularly if he denies it. Yeah. So, you know, like if I were to just say, oh, Joe told me this thing right. Last month and you go, I never said that. Right.


You can't just run with it and quote that you said it because but no way of knowing the grab them by the pussy thing.


That's you heard it, right? Oh, that was that's real. I was that was there. Right.


So anything else that's it's just so strange.


I know I understand their position that they're coming from this place where they feel like they can do a lot of good, they can change opinions and they feel like the country is going in a bad direction. And they felt like with Donald Trump, this country sliding into this horrible fascist state and they want to do everything they can to prevent it. And they have the green light from all the other people that are there. But like all this stuff, these lessons that have been learned in the past about why it's so important to be totally honest and unbiased in in terms of disseminating information like you have to kind of do that.


And then other people are supposed to take that information that you've disseminated unbiased and have these perspectives and debate both sides. That's supposed to happen. The problem is when you get this distorted perception from the media, that's very biased and that is not objective at all.


It's like you're trying to lean towards a very particular conclusion that they think is right. They think it's a good thing.


But when you do that, then you don't have you don't have a like who is the Walter Mondale or who's not Walter Mondale or Walter Cronkite.


Who is the who is the unbiased journalist? Who's the one that we trust for information?


He used to be The New York Times, The New York Times, to be like, brutally honest about basically everything. And now you read something in The New York Times like we did when The New York Times, though. Yeah. Like that's a weird shift that's happened in the last ten years or less. Yeah, but. Right.


Well, yeah. I mean, it's definitely been like exposed in the last ten years.


But I think that truthfully, I think it's kind of a silver lining that at least people are starting to be aware of, that people are starting to go like, OK, I know that these institutions are not to be trusted because truthfully speaking, they got you know, it's like I was saying to you before we started, where it's like for for all the shit that people give Alex Jones, he got all of the biggest stories right over the last twenty years.


And I'm not saying he didn't get anything wrong, but really, really big things like should we go to war in Iraq, should we bail out bankers? Should all of this he called these as lies and corruption right away.


And The New York Times was selling all of these. I mean, they sold the war in Iraq.


And so it's to me, it's not the worst thing in the world if people at least recognize that these institutions are completely compromised.


And I agree with you that there is a role for objective journalism, but I would at least accept if they were like, hey, listen, we think like what you just said, we think we have this platform and we need to. Use this to get Donald Trump not elected, at least be honest with it, don't bullshit me and tell me we're just doing objective news and every single story is about how Donald Trump is, you know, needs.


They don't even address it. They don't say they're doing objective news anymore. They just do their thing.


Well, they call other news fake news. So they'll say The New York Times doesn't. Well, The New York Times may not, but I'm speaking in the corporate press in general.


They'll say like, well, there's fake news out on the Internet. And even The New York Times has done stories about how social media companies need to do more to, you know, write fake news on the Internet and things like that.


They're talking about like super hardcore kuhnen type shit, aren't they?


Well, kind of. I mean, it starts with that and then they'll use that as an example. But then usually they also go to other things like, look, this this this New York Post story about Hunter Biden's laptop was called fake news from the day it came out to the point that not only would all of the corporate press not report on it, but that social media companies were banning the link and Twitter froze.


The New York Post Twitter account, one of the CNN journalists on Twitter called it Russian disinformation. Yes, there's a bunch of people called it Russian disinformation. I wonder if it was Russian disinformation.


The the photo of the girl giving them a foot job. Yes. Was outrageous. And that was all.


She was Russian and the foot was Russian. It was a Russian Photoshop.


What happened to that? I kind of lost track of what was happening with the laptop, but they like that. They shared information of it.


Rudy Giuliani sold it on eBay. One of the lads had made a killing on the Four Seasons last year.


I don't know this this is the thing that's going on. It's almost like too much information is coming at us.


Well, look, the it's basically been verified that this was Hunter Biden's laptop. I mean, with within any reasonable standard for for a journalist to verify something.


I mean, number one, the Bidens didn't deny it. Like, nobody actually came out and denied that this was they had his signature at the repair shop, which they matched up to his signature. They've had other people on the email chains confirm that they were these were emails between them and Hunter Biden.


So it's been pretty reasonably kind of verified that this was Hunter Biden.


Now, I don't know about the crazier accusations that were made there. I mean, Rudy Giuliani said that there were pictures of underage girls and stuff like that.


I don't know if that's true or not, but Rudy Giuliani did turn it over to the Delaware police. That is true because the Delaware a spokesman for the attorney general said that they received the laptop and that they sent it to the FBI. Now, I don't know why they would he would turn this over claiming this stuff was on there and then they would send this to the FBI if there wasn't something. But I don't know. I don't know.


But what you do know, right, is that this was a story where they had these emails about Hunter Biden, who is very clearly a swamp creature who was selling his father's name to rake in money from foreign companies. And truth be told, that's a kind of run of the mill scandal. As far as politics go, it's normal. Every senator's kid, family, wife, they all do stuff like this all the time. It's a corrupt swamp, you know, but it's a story nonetheless.


It may not be the but to but to just make the conscious decision that we are a few weeks out from a presidential election, this can harm Biden.


And therefore we're not mentioning it. We're not covering it.


We're not trying to debunk this to a bunch of people. We are trying to make sure people never get their eyes on this.


Well, I think they felt the heat. They felt the heat from 2016, from the Hillary Clinton email debate, you know, whether or not she should have deleted those emails and the fact that Comey then opens up the investigation again in the middle of the campaign.


And that was basically, what, a lot even though she won the popular vote, a lot of people felt like that was that was a bad move.


And so this year, they said, we're going to do everything we can to get rid of Donald Trump. Again, they become activists instead of just journalists. Yeah, and that's it's tricky. Well, that's 100 percent what happened.


I mean, they felt in a way that they were responsible for Donald Trump winning X Hunter.


Biden Associates records don't show proof of Biden business relationship amid unanswered questions.


Some Fox News well, FOX News has taken a turn. Ladies and gentlemen, and they are they seem to have made a conscious internal decision to not favor Donald Trump anymore.


I don't think Fox News was ever that behind Donald Trump. I mean, there's a few people at Fox News who are hard core behind Donald Trump.


But as an organization, I mean, remember, they were very hostile to him in the Republican primary. He wasn't the Fox News guy. Jeb Bush was the Fox News guy. And he I think a lot of people were very happy, are very happy to get rid of him.


Let me see that article again. This is interesting. Hmmm, I wonder what that means. Hunter Biden Associates records don't show, but what does that mean?


So they don't just but listen to this x hunter. Biden's associates records don't show proof of Biden's business relationship amid unanswered questions. That doesn't mean much.


No. Well, what he claimed was that and they're saying, Joe Biden, that he couldn't prove Joe Biden was it's a very confusing title because he claimed that he had met with Joe Biden and Joe Biden was aware of all the dealings that that Hunter was doing. Here it is.


Fox News has revealed email reviewed emails from Google. That name Bob Belinsky, related to the venture. And they don't show that the elder Biden had business dealings.


Yeah, but, see, I could that's that's weird. Like, you know, we can say that Jamie is my business associate.


Right. And if I'm involved in some shady shit and Jamie doesn't know about it, Jamie and I are emailing back and forth and they get into Jamie's emails and they say Joe Rogan's business associate doesn't show any association making.


The claim is that this is the evidence is the emails that they're like, hey, we found some emails and emails say this and now there's this. According to Fox News, like that does. That's not what they say. Right.


But the emails to who is it to that guy? Because if it's not to that guy, then this is not relative. And then they're playing games with words like, I would have to read what exactly they're saying, what exactly he's saying.


Part of the problem, too. I've looked a couple of times I was sort of just looking again where normally this shit gets leaked, you know, like when all the celebrities got their fucking iCloud leaked, all those pictures hit the Internet instantly and you could find them all over the place. These emails are like barely been seen. But I feel like anybody.


Well, these emails you can't find. I believe he turned these over to the FBI. So I don't know, you know, where they would leak from. Not to say that they couldn't leak. But I think the point of this article is that what he claimed with this Bob Wolinsky guy claimed was that Joe Biden himself was very involved in all the business deals that that Hunter and him were doing and that his emails couldn't prove that because they you know, the thing was, they said they had these references to like the big guy and stuff like that, but that they couldn't prove that that Joe Biden knew about this.


But he's claiming whether this is true or not. He's claiming that he's met Joe Biden several times and they've talked about it. And Joe Biden was well aware of what Hunter Biden was doing and where he was making his money from. Again, I think it's kind of run of the mill political scandal that that aspect of it.


Yeah, the bigger thing is like that this goes on all over the place, right? I mean, all over the fucking place, like the the conflicts of interest, the corruption, or you see where Obama, you know, was spoke after he's president.


We get like four hundred thousand dollars or something like that for a speech in front of bankers.


And he was the guy who, like, presided over the bank bailout, you know, and then you get out and it's like, oh, here's what the bankers really just wanted to hear. Barack Obama's speech. I mean, he's a good speaker, but come on, man, like, what's going on?


Hillary got a lot of those two. Oh, yes. So tons of them. And that's where they make the bulk of their money, right. When they get out of the office, then they do these speeches. Yeah.


Which is kind of Hillary Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton, I believe, ballpark numbers. They left the White House. They were like Networth was around four million dollars. And then it was like well over 100 million dollars by 2016.


So they made a lot of money after we just today, U.S. planned sale of F-35 fighter jets, the UAE and 23 billion dollar arms deal. Trump administration.


Yep, they're saying that I was reading today. They're saying he's making a bunch of deals now on his way out.


Oh, I'm sure that a plan to sell 50 advanced F-35 fighters to the United Arab Emirates as a part of a broader arms deal worth more than 23 billion. That's the weird thing about someone on the way out. They can do so much.


Well, I don't know that he's on the way out. I mean, he's. You don't think he's going? Well, yeah, he's he's almost certain, you know, the way out, but he's going to fight in.


Yeah, but do you know how insanely difficult it is to prove, first of all, to prove that there's voter fraud and then to prove there's enough voter fraud where they could overturn it?


It's it's incredibly difficult. And it's not just that he would have to do that. He'd have to do that in a few different states. And so it's an incredibly difficult task.


But it's pretty interesting. This is unlike anything I've ever seen before where you have one president just saying, like, no, this was bullshit and I'm going to fight it legally. And another thing that I thought was really weird from the press is that they so I saw it twice now.


I was on MSNBC and CNN where he was giving a press conference saying how the votes were stolen from him and the system was unfair and they cut away.


They said, we will not show this because he's lying. And then just the other day on Fox News, Neil Cavuto cut away from Trump's press secretary, saying there was voter fraud. And he goes, well, you know, we can't verify that. So we can't air this. And he's like, look, man, whatever you want to say, this is a story, right?


The fact that the president is claiming voter fraud is a story. So, er, this and then debunk it afterward. But what is this thing where you go. No, we won't show people right, you can't see this story well, because the lies could poison you or something. What if it's proven to be true? What if there is voter fraud? Well, there is it's a question of how widespread it is because there's always voter fraud, which is another secret that they don't fucking like to tell, but there's always fucking some degree of voter fraud.


Do you find it odd that everybody insists that it's impossible to vote, like, safely and accurately online?


Yes, I find that odd.


I also find it really, really odd that we overhauled the way we do voting in this country and that now it's almost an entirely different process where both candidates are getting way more votes than they would normally get.


And it's just very weird.


There weren't a lot of things that were weird about this election, like the actual logistics of it.


It doesn't seem like if we can bank online, we should be able to vote online. And doesn't it seem like if you could use, like Apple Pay or Samsung pay or something like that and go buy something, you know, you use your fingerprint.


Yeah. And it registers your fingerprint and then you could you could buy a house. Yeah. I mean if you I mean, how much can you spend on Apple Pay.


Does it have a limit. It's not about like that. It's the ease for everyone. Not everybody has that access and they need to get that shit together.


Everyone get it together like they had the day of the elections.


They were supposed. And where I'm from in Columbus, Franklin County, they were supposed to have like registration via iPads or something. Right. And that morning, they were not confident that everything got downloaded. So they just scrapped the whole thing, went back to paper like that day.


Isn't that also a problem with these weird deadlines, like we have to choose a leader in the free world in 24 hours? Ready? Go.


Yeah, like what is this a big, important thing?


Like, do we really, really want to boil it down to 20 hours, which are the whole process is fucking retarded, like the whole thing about it, the whole thing that it's like. So the system is that we have to basically like 10000 votes in Wisconsin is going to determine which half of the country is furious and which half is like a laded because they get to rule over the other half now and then. Hopefully in four years they can be happy and you're miserable because they get to rule over you.


Now, it's so bizarre.


Democracy in general is a very bizarre process to have it in a country this big, with this powerful of a government, it makes it insane. Like we're going to determine the course of history based off what a few votes in swing states determine.


There's got to be a better way.


I was reading this thing about Plato excuse me, about Socrates.


Uh, Socrates was he was talking about how he didn't like the idea of democracy because Socrates felt like in order to make really important choices, you should almost have to prove your understanding of these issues.


And that this if it wasn't the case, I'm pretty sure it was Socrates.


Look that up just in case there's plenty of quotes about him, because he he saw the the like what we basically have, like there's a lot of people that were on the ballot in California. I was like, what does this guy do and what does he want? I didn't know much about them. Yeah. And I was like, hmm, does that sound right? I mean, I'm looking at this thing for an hour, right? I've got an hour to go.


And then I Google some of these these bills.


Right. And that's just me. How many people didn't I mean, I gave a very cursory review of these ideas. How many people didn't at all. They just went and blew all across the board or read all across the board.


Oh, yeah, there's a majority. I it's just guessing. But I'd say the majority of people just vote their team. I just don't even really look into it that much.


A democracy was never democracy was kind of considered like a joke before World War One.


The idea of I mean, there weren't too many like functioning democracies and that I think that all changed with like Woodrow Wilson.


We're going to make the world safe for democracy. We're going to overthrow all of these monarchs in Europe, which Europe was mostly monarchs at the time.


And they and that ended. And then after that, you had the rise of like Lenin and Hitler and later Stalin and, you know, things that were much worse than the monarchy is that they they replaced. Yeah.


But just in pure philosophy, like the idea that if fifty one percent of people vote for something or somebody that then it's completely morally legitimate for them to rule over the other 49 percent is is completely absurd.


But what's the what's the alternative?


Well, I mean, look, I think the alternative to all of this is liberty, which is the best answer, which is just basically that whether it's a democratic process or not, that government should be so much more reduced, the power should be so much more reduced than what it is now, that it's not that consequential who gets in there because they're not wielding that much power.


And as long as you have I mean, look, this is the major source. The culture war to begin with, even before the social media stuff and before the WOAK lecturing the major sources, that the government is so powerful that you have to fight for your side to be in control of it. Otherwise, you're ruled over by the side who you hate.


And this is unless the only way forward that would solve this problem, that would defuse the culture war is accepting some type of libertarianism.


And what I just mean by that is just whatever exactly it is, something that says, OK, listen, you have these cultural views in Portland and you have these cultural views in Alabama, you're not going to remake each other. You guys can live the way you want to live and you guys can live the way you want to live and you can peacefully coexist.


The idea that you have to have this five, six trillion dollar a year beast that's controlled by one side or another that hate each other is just going to keep this thing going and getting hotter and hotter.


Yeah. And then you have these ideological positions that these huge corporations attach themselves to to siphon money off of.


Right. You know, there's Evan Hafer. He's owner of Black Reifel Coffee. And he was on and he was you know, he's a veteran and now runs this huge coffee business and was discussing what he thinks is really going on with Afghanistan.


He's like, there's no reason for us to be over there. He goes, I think they're over there to to suck money out of taxpayers. And that's what they're doing. And when Trump was interviewing or rather Steve Hilton was interviewing Trump, I've known Steve Steve Hilton for a long time.


That's the next revolution. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's good. Dude, he's a very nice guy. I was friends with him long before he was ever at Fox News.


I met him in Maui. Oh, yeah, on the beach. His kids are playing with my kids and they were real little and we became friends and we've gone on vacations together like I know him very well.


That's cool. By the way. I know the exact interview that you're talking about, I think was one of the craziest things I've ever seen.


When he's talking about the military industrial complex, we're glad we got him out of it.


They want to go to the military industrial complex. It's real. Eisenhower warned us about it.


This is the thing, by the way, that moment. This is why the establishment hates Donald Trump so much, because he is uncontrollable. And he might just blurt out, sitting down outside the White House with Steve Hilton that, oh, you know what? There's a whole bunch of people around me who want to go to war because it makes them billions of dollars, billions.


And this is like and this is just the president, the commander in chief saying now on the other side, Trump didn't end any of these wars. He kept talking about doing it and then he'd always back out at the last minute. Why do you think that is?


Well, you know, I don't know exactly, but I know that when he whenever he would make a move to to try to end one of these wars, the press would go nuts circling him.


I mean, they always were, but they dial it up to like eleven. And then he'd have people within his administration undermining him at every turn. At every turn.


I remember back I was I was a contributor on S.E. Cupp Show. She's got a show on CNN as a contributor there for like a year. And there was one time where it was Donald Trump came out and said that we're we're getting out of Syria.


And he goes, look, our only goal in Syria is to defeat ISIS. That's all we care about. And they're almost defeated. As soon as they're defeated, we're getting out completely out of Syria.


And then about a week later, McMaster's put out this statement where he was saying, these are our goals in Syria. And one of them was regime change to overthrow Bashar al-Assad.


And then he gets fired like a week after that.


And there take at CNN was kind of like, well, isn't this great that at least one of the adults in the room is like, no, no, no, Donald Trump, this is what we're doing in Syria. We're having another regime change.


And I was like, losing my shit. Like, wait, hold on. However you feel about this, he's the commander in chief. The secretary of state doesn't get to decide.


No, we're fighting a war. There it is. Oh, this is Steve Hilton. Yeah. He was particularly orange that day. They want to keep you have people here in Washington if they never want to leave. I said, you know what I'll do? I'll leave a couple of hundred soldiers behind. But if it was up to them, they'd bring thousands of soldiers in some day. People will explain. Well, is they do have you do have a group and they call it the military industrial complex.


They never want to leave. They always want to fight. No, I don't want to fight. But you do have situations like Iran. You can't let them have nuclear weapons. You just can't let that happen.


A friend of mine today was talking about the art of the deal. And the art of the deal was he was in rehab when he was in rehab. He had a lot of time and he read the art of the deal.


And he's like, it's remarkably progressive, even by today's standards. He's like he wrote this in like the 80s. Well, Donald Trump was never that.


I mean, he's got flaws. Oh, no.


But the problem is they they overwhelm anything good about them where, like, you get these flaws, like the bragging and the craziness and not telling the truth about things.


And the the the tricky thing with Trump is that if it wasn't for these character flaws or these qualities that are partly, you know, have these character flaws, he'd never be the president. Right.


But then once he becomes president, you're like, man, I wish you could just plug up these couple holes and keep saying shit like that, because that would be really awesome. Like, we really do need a guy who's taking on the military industrial complex and pushing to end these wars and exposing a lot of the corruption.


But also the other problem is that this was never really what animated Trump. The problem is that with Donald Trump, I think that a lot of the Trump haters project this this thing on to Donald Trump, like he's literally Hitler. A lot of the Trump lovers project this thing onto him like he's our savior. But the reality is it's just what you see.


He's just that he's the guy who he's he's as shallow a thinker as he seems. He's instinctually brilliant. But in terms intellectually, he really just cares about being the best.


I won. I was terrific.


Everybody knows that, you know, and that's and so I served him well his whole life. Sugarhouse the idea that all of a sudden he becomes president, he's going to abandon that and become presidential.


Now, it's not going to happen. But anyone who was a decent gentleman or like didn't have those qualities would never have gotten to where he was. He got to where he was because he was willing to say, like he got to where he was, in large part because he had a quality that Bernie Sanders didn't have about him.


Bernie Sanders is entirely too nice of a guy to lead a revolution.


He would always say, we're leading a revolution.


And then you'd have Joe Biden, who's the epitome of the system that you want to revolt against. And he'd go, look, Joe's a very decent guy. He's my friend. I'm not going to say anything bad about him.


And you're like, well, you're probably not going to lead a fucking revolution if you're not willing to lob some insults.


Like I'm not saying you have to lob bullets, but like, you've got to at least do you, though, do you have to at least attack you have to at least attack what he stands accused saying you have to call him a fat loser.


I'm saying you have to go like you have to go.


Listen, you are the epitome of Washington corruption. You've enriched your own family while you're getting other people killed while you're selling out the country. Yes. I think you have to go for the jugular if you're actually going to beat this system.


Isn't it strange, though, that you have to do that? You can't you can't just espouse the merits of your own ideas? Well, you have to attack.


But, you know, if you're a real human being, right. Like let's say what Donald Trump was just saying. And by the way, Bernie Sanders pretty much agrees with him on that. He's talked about how war is big business and how, you know, we were lied into the war in Iraq and he voted for Bernie Sanders.


To his credit, he's one of the very few Democrats in the Senate who voted against the war in Iraq. At the time, very few Democrats in the Senate actually stood their ground and good for him for doing that.


But you're talking about people lying to get real human being slaughtered, that to make people money. I mean, if you talk about that and you don't have some type of outrage about it, that just doesn't seem to make sense to me.


Like, that's not how a real human being should feel.


No, I totally understand.


But I wonder if, like in the middle of that, when you're you're insulting people, you're perpetuating you're keeping going this this sort of system that's been in place for so long, where you run, you talk about your merits, you shit on the floors of your opponent.


He does the same to you. Whoever lands the most blows, wins. I mean, this is highlighted, by the way, Kamala Harris is like sort of talked about her debate with with Biden. Right.


When when she was on Colbert, just like it was a debate. It was a debate. But it's like that's the only way to do it is the only way to do it to shit on the other person.


I think that you have to like I think there's nothing wrong with really. Running on your ideas, and I think that part Bernie Sanders did, you know, and I don't like a lot of Bernie Sanders ideas, I think he's got some that are really good. Which ones do you like? Well, OK.


What I love about Bernie Sanders is that he voted against the war in Iraq. As I just said, he was great in the Senate about the war in Yemen and trying to bring that to an end, which is just this God awful nightmare that's still going on, that Obama started and Trump continued. I mean, what's happening in Yemen is like one of the biggest tragedies in well, explain to people.


So Yemen is I mean, Yemen is the poorest country in the Middle East, which is saying something. You know, they were already the poorest country in the Middle East before any of this happened. And the Saudis basically went to war with the Houthis in Yemen and America backed the Saudis under Barack Obama. What the Obama administration said to placate the Saudis, basically they the Saudis were pissed off about a lot of things.


And they're a big business partner with us. And so they were pissed off about the war in Iraq. The Saudis didn't want the war in Iraq. They kind of foresaw what would happen, that it would give Iran control of the region and it would be a nightmare. But the Cheney really wanted the war in Iraq. Israel really wanted the war in Iraq. And the neocons won and they got the war. And so they were already pissed off about that.


And then they were really pissed off that Obama made the Iran deal with Iran. And so to to placate, which I believe was the direct quote to placate the Saudis, Obama decided to back them in this war against Yemen. And they put a full blockade around the country, which was already the poorest country in in the Middle East.


And this led to just I mean, the U.N. said it was the worst humanitarian crisis in the world. This was before covid. But I think it's still probably up there. There were well over a million cases of cholera, which is basically, I mean, curable with I think liquids. Like I think Gatorade could solve cholera. I don't know, you might need antibiotics or something like that, but it was children and old people just dying in massive numbers.


I still don't think they know the exact numbers. It's going to be somewhere on the scale of what the war in Iraq was, hundreds of thousands of people dead. And Bernie Sanders really led the effort to try to end it in the Senate. And he did a great job on that. Like, phenomenal. He also has a great he had a great bill proposed to decriminalize marijuana on a federal level, which I think would be phenomenal.


And so there were there were several things like those are probably the ones I'd pick that I thought were really great about Bernie Sanders.


So I think running on issue, probably one of my big criticisms of him is that he doesn't he doesn't really lead with those issues like he didn't.


Those aren't the things he talked about a lot on the campaign trail, but he was excellent on all of those.


So I think you could run he could run on his principles, you know, but I think you have to at some point have a little bit of a killer instinct to become the alpha monkey, to become the leader of this country.


And I thought that Bernie Sanders could have won the whole election with the tone that he started in the primary and he didn't. And I think that Bernie Sanders, like, look, the corporate press completely came down to try to ruin it for him. Who knows what the DNC did this time? I mean, it was exposed in 2016. Who knows what they were doing behind the scenes?


Well, we know what they were doing. We know that that was the reason why Klobuchar and Budha judge dropped out. Well, that we now know that Warren stayed in to siphon votes off for Bernie. No question. No, they gave their delegates over to Biden.


No question. We know that much. We know that right now. We don't know exactly who made the phone calls. I think there was reporting that Barack Obama had called a couple of them. That sounds good.


That's yeah, it sure does. But so that. But you're right. So all the competition with Biden drops out right before Super Tuesday. Bernie Sanders competition. Elizabeth Warren stays in till the bitter end.


I think it felt like with Bernie, even though there's talk that they couldn't control them. There's also talk that he couldn't win because there are certain key states that he's never going to win, because even though that message resonated with a lot of people, including me, what resonated with me is, first of all, absolving people of student debt. I know a lot of people that are wrapped up in student debt.


And I think it's one of the best examples of first of all, you have essentially children, right? You have someone who's 17, 18 years old. They're going into school and they're taking on enormous debt and they don't. I think you can make the real argument that they don't have the intellectual capacity to understand the ramifications of this. Maybe some do, maybe some don't. But when you're talking about people that are in debt, hundreds of thousands of dollars, by the time they get out of school and then they get out of school and they get a job that pays 40 grand a year, do the math.


How long before you catch up? You never catch up. There's people to this day that are getting Social Security that are getting their Social Security docked because they owe money for student loans. I mean, you're at the end of the fucking game.


Are people old enough for Social Security and student loan debt, like, wow. Oh, yeah.


That's going on right now. Make sure that's true. Jimmy.


Sounds really good. I'm pretty sure it's true. Well, that is an. They are victims of a corrupt scheme. Yes, sure, it's well, it's a bad system. And I think if we have all this money to go to Afghanistan and put on these endless wars, the idea that we don't have enough money to provide a reasonably priced education, I'm not saying it should be free. Maybe it should cost a little bit, because I think people work harder when they have to work for something.


But the idea that you should be hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt by the time you get out and in the reality of the economy is that even before covid, if you got out the odds of you getting a job, that's like going to be able to even put a dent in that debt in your chosen field, they're not that good.


Oh, yeah.


Oh, that's no question about it, is 19 percent of the Social Security payments can be garnished to repay a student loan debt. Your monthly benefit cannot sink below seven. Well, OK, good luck living on 750 bucks.


And this is also for people who are, what, like 35 now when they retire. What's that?


So there's not that long ago, man. If you think about someone who's 65. Right. So once once know, look at this.


Our student loans forgiven after 65. There are no student loan forgiveness programs specifically for senior citizens. Elderly student loan borrowers are eligible for the same loan forgiveness programs as other borrowers. That's crazy. It's crazy.


It's crazy. If you're that old and you're on a fixed income, you really can't physically work anymore. And we don't if we're a community.


All right. And this is one of the things I think about the United States, the idea of a country we're supposed to be a community, even though we're broken off into these countries and broken off in cities. And we broke it off by ideologies and we're separated by all these different lines in the sand that we draw. At the end of the day, we're all contributing to this pool or putting our tax dollars and we're deciding what's important and what's not.


For me, student loan forgiveness was a big thing because it was like we've got to stop this cycle of fucking people over economically when they're 18 years old. Doesn't make any sense. Fair enough.


But I just think that if, like I agree with the spirit of everything you're saying, and I think when I when I said it's a corrupt system, it's just that the fact that you have all of these parties involved where you have like the government who's guaranteeing all of these student loans and then you have for a while, I think now it's all done straight from the federal government. For a while you have these financial companies that are giving out the loans and then taking in the interest and profiting off of them.


And then you have these universities who are able to raise their their tuition over and over. And there's always a market for it because the loans are guaranteed by the government.


So they're just so now you have all of these people just raking in money and the politicians get to brag about all these kids going to college.


And then who's fucked is the 17, 18 year old who was told their whole life that, oh, just just take the loan out, whatever you got to do, because this will lead you to a better life and then the jobs aren't there for them. So those but the problem, if you want to break this cycle, the problem is the government guaranteeing the loans to begin with.


Right. Because this is what a yes.


This is why college inflates faster than almost any other price in the market.


And so I would just think even if we are going to forgive the loans that are out there now, what you need to do is stop the loans, cut them off and let the prices of college come back to something that's more reasonable, like they were in like our parents generation, where you could work a summer job and pay off your college.


And then you've also got a very interesting situation in college where most professors are left leaning and most of the shit you're learning is useless and not all of it, but a whole lot of it.


I don't know if that's necessarily the case, but some of it's going to be useless. But let's not concentrate on that because you're supposed to be expanding your horizons and there's there's social growth being outside of your family for the first time. There's there's all sorts.


But you can do that in lots of ways.


Then spending 100 grand to go get drunk at a frat party, you know, but how many of those ways ensure intellectual competition? How many of those ways ensure that you're going to get together with other students and you're going to debate things, you're going to discuss issues, you're going to learn things. You're going to talk amongst yourselves. You're going to also all be forced to take these rigorous courses that demand a lot of you intellectually that it's very I like that in theory.


I just don't know how much that's happening in universities. But I get your point.


But let's agree, it's the only place where it's happening. Sure. For 18 year olds, trust me, because I barely spent any time in college. My time in college was three years at UMass Boston and barely paying attention. Right. So these people that are teaching these kids overwhelmingly lean left.


Now, I'm not saying they shouldn't lean left.


This is how you feel. You should express yourself.


But it is really odd in a country that thrives on this concept of diversity that there's almost no diversity and the intellectual ideologies that these professors have.


Yeah, like what are the numbers of professors in this country? What percentage of professors identify as Marxists, let's say? Yes, I would say I'm going to say it's in the 20s.


Yeah, I probably guess some. Thing like that, but then there's also identifying as Marxist and then there's like being influenced by, say, like postmodernism.


Yeah, but we're going as far as we can. This is Marxist. That's as far left as we can get, right?


Yeah, it might be under 20 percent. I'm not sure.


But it's a we can agree that it's a really far left stance to say, yeah, that's pretty far. So but I'm saying like, what percentage identify is the hardest of hard left? Very close. What is it?


There's an article. It says about 18 percent of social scientists in the US self identify as Marxist.


Oh, but that's social science. No, I typed in research that says professors in the top.


Yeah, because if you're talking about professors and like other, you know, harder sciences.


Yeah, yeah. 80 percent of social scientists.


OK, but that's still an interesting that's that's a large number and that's a large number of people that are teaching like, you know, critical race theory and gender theory.


And this is a right. So this is where all the oakshott comes from. Right. And this is really destructive.


Well, this is where your kids go. Only about five percent who identify as conservative. Isn't that that seems crazy.


You've got 18 percent Marxist, five percent conservative.


And AEI panel discussion was that I was I like titled Clone People. They asked the closed minded campus the stifling of ideas in American universities. But it's one of those things where it's like what is most appealing to young kids?




What happens to people when they get older, realism, what happens to people when they get older and then they're worried about their physical health and then conservative ism.


Right. I mean, it's like that's one of the reasons why conservative ism and even, you know, you libertarianism, when you think about it, when you do this sort of like real narrow minded view of what that means to people, for a lot of people, it means cruelty.


It means a lack of compassion. It means it's like blind faith in capitalism and competition.


And that's one of the things that freaks out young people, because young people, as they, you know, enter into the world and they start learning things and they leave their parents a lot of times. First of all, they feel suppressed by their parents.


They feel like the parents who probably work really hard in order to get them to go to school, you know, to be able to afford their school will probably work really hard in order just to keep the family together. Just in terms of the amount of money you have to have to to have a house and two cars and live in America and pay your taxes and send your kids to college like, God damn, you got to work. Yeah. You got you fucking have to work.


And so if you're a kid and you're just living off your parents and then you're hearing all this like hardcore shit like, like, you know, your parents want they want you to be successful, you know, like Jesus Christ, leave me alone.


Then you get to school and you drop acid and you learn about Marxism and you learn about socialism and you like we can all just get together.


We could just put all our money together and we're going to be fine. And, you know, there was a discussion.


Who was it that was was it on this show? I think it was I was talking to somebody and they were talking about the early days of the United States and in the early days, the United States with wheat production, the initial ideas were that they were going to pool all the all the food together.


I think this was actually pre United States. I think this was in the colonies. Right.


I think you're right. I think you're right.


And then they realized laughing really, really quickly that this didn't work and they scrapped that what you grow, you eat and they're like, oh, shit, I got to go to work. And then people started busting their ass. There's a diffusion of diffusion of responsibility that comes from this idea that you are an individual and that the government should provide for you. You know, there's so many people in this country, there's so much money. Look at all the trillions they spent on military.


Look at all the trillions they spent on infrastructure, look at all the trillions they give to the fossil fuel industry and all this.


They start running all these numbers and they go, why can't the government take care of everybody? Why you know so well?


And that is one of the like my my position is basically that the government shouldn't do any of this shit and we don't have the money for any of it. We shouldn't rob it from people.


But it is a strong argument from like an AOC type. Yes. Where they'll be like, oh, well, we don't have this money and she can go.


But every time you right wingers want a war, you always find the money for it where I was going.


So you have young people who do have these idealistic perspectives like AOC and then they go through the university system and they're taught this by people don't enter the real world.


Yes, right. These people, they stay in academia. They they learn, they grow, they they become professors. They get tenure. They're there. And this is this is their world.


And in their world, they get to shape young minds and they ship shape young minds who are already open to these ideas of compassion and of being different than their fucking parents who are so hardcore.


Your parents had to feed you, you fucks, if your parents are out there grinding. Little bit of gratitude. It's fucking hard.


It's hard to get. Yeah, you know, it's hard, you know, so I get I completely get what you're saying. But the other thing about, you know, which I guess just concerns me a little bit about abolishing, you know, student debt or forgiving student debt, is that well, number one, the first thing I said is that it's like, well, OK, if we don't get the system fixed, then we're going to forgive this debt and then keep perpetuating more people in debt.


So something still needs to be done there.


But the problem is also that, like, you know, when you say forgive debt or you have the taxpayer pick any of this stuff up, it's just coming from other people.


It's you're taxing working people to pay for this but or something. But there's something.


But why does it have to be that way? The government already subsidizes it right there. Right.


So what what if they didn't do that, would it what if there was a way to figure out like a reasonable solution to how professors are paid, how students pay for their education? What if there's a reasonable solution and it was profitable?


I'd be all for that if there was a feasible option. I think so. But I think basically the solution is to just get the government out of the business of higher education.


If there are higher if there are institutions of higher education that are providing enough value for people like you, come here, you're going to be way better in life in that scene than people are going to want to send their kids there. OK, let them let them survive on their own.


But what about Canada? What about the UK? What about places that pay for education?


Yeah, I mean, there are like other countries that do that and. OK, fair enough. Like that there. I mean I don't know enough about the Canadian university system, but I'll tell you this, they have just as big a problem with what you were talking about. Oh yeah. With the woak shit. Maybe even more.


Maybe even more. Well, the president spoke. Yeah. He's not a president. He's a king. Right. I believe is the prime minister. And I was the king. I might you know, Jamie Trudi's King Brown face king, you know.


Thank you.


I also think that, you know, the Woloshin is really it's really something that has really gripped the country in an interesting way over the line. And it's not just that the the colleges are like teaching it. Like that's almost like the the center of it all, like critical race theory in some university. Yeah.


But then you see how much it's been jumped onto by like by all the big corporations, politicians, they're all behind.


Well that's why Kamala Harris states her gender pronoun. Oh yeah. Yeah, it's it's in compliance. Do you want to capitulate capitulating to the WOAK culture.


Right. But it's interesting.


Like do you I wonder often times and I guess there's I don't know how many of of like like real woak true believers will ever listen to anything that I'm ever on. Like even as big as this show is like they would just be furious by everything you say, the way you just drink your glass is like that's white supremacy or whatever, you know, like.


Yeah, well, I mean by my very existence. Yes, I'm yeah. I'm a white male rich guy with tattoos who does cage fighting commentary. Yes.


Very problem. A lot of problems.


Very problematic.


But do you ever wonder, like from even from their perspective, which is hard to get into, but to the if you're like out there and you're like, OK, Black Lives Matter and like the hardcore like woak twenty year old like and they're like, I'm against this system because this system is white supremacy. Right.


And then you realize that all of Hollywood agrees with you and all of academia agrees with you. And like JPMorgan Chase is running like a Black Lives Matter ads. And Kamala Harris, the vice president elect, agrees with you.


And and you go, how against the system are you really if the entire system is supporting what you're doing and what why?


If the whole system is based on white supremacy and you're here to call that out, why would the system not be reacting to crush you? Why would they be like propping you up?


Well, the system is so malleable, right? The system recognizes trends and well, we can profit off this trend. Well, we need to sell black lives matter mask's.


But I think it's more than just profiting off of it.


Like, my my theory on it is that this is the ultimate divide and conquer and protect yourself strategy. So you see how much that look, they don't want true economic leftism.


That's what Bernie Sanders represented. And you saw how much the corporate press freaked out when it looked like he might have a shot at winning. They were calling the supporters Nazis and shit like that, like they were giving him the Trump treatment.


The Jewish guy who's the closest to ever being president any Jews ever been is all of a sudden represents a Nazi takeover. But they freaked out.


And all the stuff you were saying about having the other candidates drop out and that Bernie Sanders was unacceptable to them, they don't like that brand of left wing ideology. They love the WOAK shit because the WOAK shit allows them to give up nothing.


But like, JPMorgan Chase is like, fine, we'll send our white execs to diversity training. Good deal. Now, are we cool with the left now?


Like, that's fine. We'll hang a Black Lives Matter flag up. No problem. They're fine with gestures, but Bernie Sanders is like, I want your money, I want your shit, I want your profits, no more making like Bernie Sanders is.


You know, if some, like social justice warrior is like, you know, we have a problem with micro aggressions and toxic masculinity. The JPMorgan Chase is like, no problem. That's great.


And Bernie Sanders is like, there shouldn't be billionaires.


And they're like, I don't know about that guy.


That guy seems like he could be trouble, you know what I mean?


So they don't like the economic populist stuff because they've got a nice little system worked out here where they're raping the country.


The fucking big bank system that they have worked out right now is that the Federal Reserve prints money out of thin air, lends it to them at zero percent interest, and they lend it out to the rest of us at interest. So they just get money for free and then lend it out and collect the interest. It's a sweet ass fucking deal. If I were them, I'd want to talk about micro aggressions, too. I feel like, you know what the real problem in our society is?


These fucking micro aggressions. Am I right? That's what's fucking everybody over white supremacy.


They consciously, like, recognize these trends and say, we've got to get on board with this and this will help us because we'll be one of the good guys will be we'll be a company that's very difficult to criticize.


I think there's I think there's a lot of forces at work, but I think that's a big part of it. I think they also realize that, like, I think there are people it's like this kind of it's like an alliance between the top and the bottom. So there's like the 20 year old who works for some company. Yeah. Maybe some Internet music streaming company. I don't know, you know, some some company out there, some twenty year old WOAK person who is a true believer.


Yeah. A true believer in the WOAK stuff. And then there is the JPMorgan Chase. Kamala Harris is of the world.


They don't believe this for a second. It's just a ploy. It's just a tactic. And so they're kind of playing off of these people.


But my thing is that, like to the bleeding heart, young woak, social justice, warrior types is like, look, there's a need for you in society.


There's a need for like a compassionate left who's willing to protest shit and shut it down. But you're focused on all the wrong areas. It's not about forget micro aggressions, think about real aggressions. We're still in all the longest wars in American history. The protests that get out in the streets about fucking Yemen try to end that war.


Isn't that it? Almost. But there's too many things going on.


And then those things are out of sight. They're in another place that you're never going to visit.


Well, you have to think a little bit about it. But why is it that and maybe it's I don't like have an answer. This isn't like a leading question. Like but why is it that, like, the Vietnam War could draw so many protests, the war in Iraq under George W. Bush drew so many protests. So like, why can't why were Trump's wars never like a thing?


I think the press covers them differently today than they did during the Vietnam era. Yeah, I think that's true. I think the press during the Vietnam era was very much the press. The ideal view of the press, probably closer. Much. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's been changed.


First of all, there's there's a bunch of factors that happen almost together. They coincide.


One of them is the advent of social media and the Internet in general, and then how people are no longer digesting their news through paper. They're not paying for a newspaper. They're getting it on their phone. And you're now in competition with BuzzFeed and Vice and you name it. There's so many choices. There's Vox and there's there's almost too many different play the blaze as fuck. And you just you can keep going and going and going. There's too many different places we can go to get information.


So if a website is competing with The New York Times, The New York Times now has to do something in order to get your attention. So what do they do?


They do it at least. At least if they don't do click baity stuff. They do provocative things. They they they gear their attention towards things they know are going to get clicks because they're starving.


They're literally fighting for survival, whether it's The Washington Post or even the Wall Street Journal. I think a lot of these newspapers are experiencing well, one thing that led to a big increase in the New York Post subscribers, ironically, is Trump, right?


Trump shitting on them, calling the Philly New York Times the yes, yeah, yeah.


Trump calling The New York Times. They started their subscriptions went up.


Well, this is and this is true all over the place with corporate media entities that were dying. I mean, it's also true for MSNBC and CNN and a lot of them all saw ratings surges.


Sure. Because people wanted to combat Trump. Yeah, a lot of them. It became the number one focus because if it bleeds, it leads like cats. These are the really exciting things that people are going to tune into and it's going to help our revenue stream. So our idea is that the reason why they're showing us the news is these are the most significant stories. They're going to impact your life the most. This is what's. Most important, not really the case where it really is, is what's going to get the most attention, what's the most important in terms of like what's going to get the most views, which is going to bring in the most advertising revenue?


And for people online that are writing stories, it's they don't click bait for a reason. Yeah, they do rather call it click bait for a reason. The reason is it's they've got to trick you into clicking that thing because that's how they make their money that we've created this. So then they've tried subscription models. And I subscribe to the Times and I subscribe to The Washington Post. I subscribe to like four or five different publications. And I felt like an obligation to do that.


I'm getting my news from them. I feel like I should give them some money. And that might be the only way these things ever survive is that people get their news via subscription model.


But to this day, someone will send me a link and I'll click the link and they'll say to subscribe, I'll fuck you.


And then I'll I'll I won't read it and then I'll Google it. I'll try to find it somewhere else.


Yeah, that works about 50 percent of the time. Yeah. Just Google the title. You should be able to just pay for an article like maybe Apple pay you five cents for this article.


Let me get a double click.


ID like to make me subscribe every time I understand that there's journalists and they're doing amazing work and that they've worked for weeks on this exposé and this has been the sole focus of their life.


And it's valuable and it's valuable to me.


It's valuable to the United States as a whole, because this one person's intellectual perspective on a very complex subject, they boiled this down for weeks and weeks here. This is what we've learned about X.


Those are important. Sure.


I'll give you a couple bucks. I'll put two, but make it fucking easy. Don't make me subscribe and give you my email address, and I'm going to just make me go to do let me go like that.


I'll give you two dollars. Yeah.


It's kind of as you say, it's surprising they haven't figured that all out close what Apple has, but it's not quite right. It's like in between what you're talking. I have that too. Yeah. Yeah I have that. But it's still there. Which is there somebody curating it which is a little you know.


That's exactly exactly. I mean, I would like to be able to go to each individual front page and I think that I don't even have time for that.


I think the thing you were mentioning earlier about who you trust is like a bigger factor than ever before.


You know, why trust online people would know people like Jimmy Dorje. People are called Glove's Jimmy Door. Yeah, people like the Hill do to view Crystal and Soga.


I like them, too. I like that. Their show is great. It's great. But, you know, so it's like and by the way and the best is like Glenn Greenwald.


Yes. I don't really like he's and you know where he stands. He's a left wing guy. OK, yeah. He still has journalistic integrity.


So he's not just going to like, you know, him walking away from the intercept was incredible.


Yeah. And there's and Jeremy Scahill, the other guy who was at The Intercept with him, is a great journalist, Aaron Mattey. I might be fucking up his last name. Have you had him on?


No, he's great. He's writes for the nation, did a great job. He's on Jimmy Dawes Show all the time. He did a great job of, like, just blowing up the Russia conspiracy bullshit.


And it was more powerful because it's like a left winger doing it who's like, listen, this is all lies.


And like, I hate Donald Trump, but I'm not going to tell you something that isn't real is real just because I hate him.


And so if you're smart or if you're, you know, fortunate enough to find the right people, you can get really good information online. But it comes down to like who you trust to give you the right information. Right. And there's a lot of people right now who it's kind of like, well, these are the few people I trust. These are the few people I trust on both sides.


Right. And you could be way off like you. You'd think you trust this person. Someone come along, go. Hey, man, do you know they're they're financed by this. Do you know that this is part of the reason why they keep bringing this up is there's a directive, you know, that emails have been leaked and it's been proven that these people are supposed to be doing what they're doing.


Oh, fuck.


Really? That's the worst. Figuring out someone you trust isn't right. I should find out. The cult master really doesn't speak to the alien behind the car. Yeah, but this is where we're at, right? We're in this imperfect system. That's the best system the world's ever known. That's what's weird.


What's weird is as good as this. Like, it's hard to say things are great because things are not great for everybody.


They're certainly not as good as they could be. Right. So that said, we have to recognize that the system of this experiment, self-government is the best system that's ever been put in place as far as creativity, our artistic contribution, the impact on culture, the innovation, like there's some beautiful things that are happening all around the world.


Yeah, but there's some wild shit that has happened in America over a period of just two hundred years.


Yeah, it's pretty fucking crazy.


No, it's the fucking it's the the greatest country that's ever existed and by many different metrics.


So let me throw this out. It's worth saving because we're on a fucking suicide mission. Yeah. So it's worth saving.


I don't believe this, but I'm just as a thought.


Sighs What if all this robbery like student debt and even the military industrial complex and even what if all of this activity has to go on in order to have this much thriving, in order to have this much economic prosperity and this much freedom, you got to have fuckers.


You've got to have madness. You've got to have allies. You got to have deception. You got to have special interest groups. You got to have people distorting other people's positions on things. You've got to have empty pundits. You've got to have puppets in various stages of media. You have to have click bait.


You have to have all these things, because if you don't have all these things, you don't have resistance, you don't have an enemy, you don't have a battle, you don't have a competition to get these prominent ideas you think are the most crucial in order to maintain this society and maybe even improve it. They don't compete enough.


They have they have to be suppressed. You have to choke people. You've got to grab them.


You've got to shake them like bad babies, almost like you have to create this chaos. It's almost like you have to create it in order for people to battle this chaos.


Well, there yeah. I mean, I guess there is like a yin and yang to the fact that needs without corruption, there could never be like noble anti-corruption forces and I should say anything to fight against.


I don't believe there are any bad babies and he definitely shouldn't shake them. That was a bad analogy. That was a bad analogy.


But if you're going to shake babies, make sure it's a bad baby. Like a Hitler baby. Yeah, Hitler baby. I think it's OK.


When do you think you could go back in time and be justified in killing Hitler? Well, if you killed him when he was ten, you'd be an asshole. Yeah, that's bad. Maybe you should just coach him. Yeah. Teach him any time.


Yeah, well, that's I mean, once you have the ability to time travel, you'd think you could probably solve this in a better way than killing him.


Could you though. Maybe not. I don't know.


You have to keep him from steroids and cocaine, right. Because apparently that was the thing. They would inject him with testosterone and cocaine.


You ever see that video of him at the Olympics? You speaking out? Yeah, it's amazing. Yeah. So imagine what it's like like being in his inner circle, just like a little thing fucked up or something like that.


There's a crazy story I forget who told me I do too many podcast but about Mussolini and that Mussolini was ready to get out of the wars like Italy doesn't want to know parties and they shot Hitler up with coke and testosterone.


And they sent him over there and he cornered Mussolini and fucking talked to him for hours. Imagine being at a party with some guy who just spit in your face telling you stories and he's talking just like his public speech.


I was like just like going crazy.


And and by the end of the fucking conversation, Mussolini is all there is, like anything just to get this man away from me.


But was it that or was Mussolini like actually like, fuck, yeah, we're going to fight this war.


Like, Hitler just had this power. He had a needle and a fucking mirror.


He's like, come on, do he's going to fucking hit you with one of those who are we in?


But, you know, Hitler was doing all sorts of hardcore, unfettered means, by the way. So is Kennedy. There's no. Yeah, the Dr. Feelgood, you know, they were doing that to a lot of people back.


I mean, I'm pretty convinced all of them are on some type of drugs. See, Joe Biden sprinted out to his acceptance speech the other day. They gave him a little something. A hundred percent. Donald Trump did Trump do.


Donald Trump did in back to back days in the last week before the election, five events at five different states where he did close to an hour at each one.


Yeah, like that.


If someone if someone told you, dude, we're getting on a plane, you're doing five hours tonight in five different states, you think that's going to be a day man that Donald Trump is in his mid 70s, he's overweight and he had covid couple of weeks ago and he's fucking doing it and he loves it.


Like he's just up there in the Jets. We love you. And he just and by the way, nothing scripted.


This is the most amazing part about Trump. He literally just gets up there and just fucking stream of consciousness.


They got a doctor with a turkey baster filled with testosterone. Oh, my God. Just shove it in. And they're giving him some everything.


It's not just Big Macs. There's something else at work there for sure.


There's definitely some sort of stimulant probably prescribed by a doctor. So it doesn't seem like it's bad. Yeah.


You know, I would never do drugs. There's a lot of people that think that, yeah, I knew a lady who was like hooked on Xanax, but she hated drugs.


Like, what do you think you're doing? Yeah, what do you think you do? And people have weird ideas about drugs. All right. And if you talk to, like drug specialists, they I mean, I've had people on that explain that kicking Xanax is actually more difficult than kicking opiates like Xanax. Addiction is very serious. Yeah, it's a powerful drug.


Yeah. Maybe not more difficult, but it's in the realm. It's like it's an incredibly difficult thing to kick and has all sorts of weird complications with people, you know, anti-depressants in general or antianxiety medication in general, like benzodiazepine. That's the Jordan Peterson was trying to get off and he was wrecked for a fucking year for he's just coming out of the fog now.


I mean, how to go do a medical detox in Russia? Yeah, for Bonzo's. Yeah, I've never. Have you ever done a benzo? Do you know what that is? I don't know.


No. I mean, I've heard the joke stories about Joey Diaz eats them in a bowl like cornflakes.


Yeah, but Joey Diaz isn't exactly I don't think he's ever had that. He can he can sort of. You couldn't do anything to Joey Diaz. No matter what you give him, he'll be the same.


Well, while he's alive, he's a national treasure. We should protect him with everything we can. Right. You've got him now. That's right.


Yeah, that's right. Yeah, I'm happy that was win one for the right when he got there.


They legalize weed. Coincidence? Maybe not. It's quite a coincidence if it is just that he brought it, he brought the energy.


They probably thought about it. And like Uncle Joey's in town. We got to check that box.


I'm glad Joey Diaz is in New Jersey and I'm glad Jordan Peterson is home. I think the country could use some more. Jordan Peterson.


Yeah, for sure. And also, I think it's probably real important for a guy of his intellectual capacity to explain what it was like to be addicted to these things and try to get off of them.


And what a I think a lot of us, we especially it be easy for someone like me who's never been physically addicted to something where I had like some serious withdrawals.


It's probably easy to dismiss that as mental weakness, you know, but when a guy who's as intelligent as him and has spent so much time talking about personal responsibility has a situation like this, it can shine some light in a very unique way that maybe like you or I, who, if you've been addicted, anything, not really coffee I was offered, but I really am addicted to coffee.


Do you ever, like, had not been able to have coffee?


Yeah, I've had some headaches. Yeah. Yeah. It's like I had to give blood or to get blood test once like a couple of years ago and it was like you can't drink coffee before it and it was like at noon and it was like by the time I was out I was like holy shit.


Like I'm really feeling. But no, not, not addiction to like anything like I get headaches.


I bought a 51 ounce French press. It's like it's a big ol metal French press, and I when I make coffee, if I make French press coffee, spending way too much coffee, like you're not supposed to have that much grinds, I'm basically making speed.


And then I poured the hot water and I drank the whole thing.


So I drank 50 ounces, whatever it is without the beans, because I make it like a couple inches thick on the bottom.


Right. It's way more coffee than you're supposed to have. So let's say I drink 45 ounces of coffee and it's Krank.


And by the end of the day, I was so tired and I was like, what is why am I so tired? I'm like, Oh, you were on speed today, stupid.


Yeah, yeah. Basically, it's catching up with you. You like the day. But before that I felt so good. I wanted to hug everybody. I wanted to go to work. I wanted to get things done. I got a workout in. I did some writing, I made some phone calls and sounds pretty good to me.


The only negative was you got tired at the end of the day and the day I was tired, like when Tromped was asleep. I'd love to see like a webcam of him when the Adderall dies out and he has to take a sleeping pill.


But his whatever it is that he takes the energy that that guy has I remember Bill O'Reilly interviewed him is like when he first became president and it was before Bill O'Reilly went down. So around when he first became president. And he asked him, number one, which was the greatest thing ever was. He asked him. He was like, So do you ever look around the White House and just think to yourself, like, man, this is like really incredible.


I'm the president of the United States.


And Trump was like, yeah, it's a nice house. He just seems so unimpressed with the fact that because it's a shithole.


Yeah, he's right where he lives, but that's just Donald Trump. Like it's always like did you ever have like a serious moment where you thought about your role in history and all this in this house you're in? And he's like, yeah, Donald fucking Trump.


Like, I don't know what this is. I live in a lot of nice houses. And Bill O'Reilly asked him how how much he sleeps tonight.


And he said about three hours. And he goes, does that, like, mess with you? And he goes, Oh, I always slept about three hours.


Like he was always kind of being this guy he always loved is a big advantage.


The celebrity factor of four, Donald Trump was a big advantage in politics. And a part of that was that like when he would get on those debate stages, you know, you got to think like in the primary debates with other Republicans, a lot of these guys, like, you know, Marco Rubio or someone like that, he might have been groomed by the establishment, but he hasn't been under these type of lights before.


He hasn't had a hundred million people watching him before. But Donald Trump stepped right in there. Like, this is exactly where I belong. Yeah. This is this is my home and was so comfortable, even someone like Jeb Bush, who's from the most powerful crime family in America.


But has he ever been in a spotlight like that before?


Now, another guy like Donald Trump who doesn't follow any of the rules, who will you say?


Jamie, I've heard recently, I don't even know if it's speculation, but like the drug he's taking is not like Adderall or something, but he's taking, like, Provigil, actually, and could be.


I just found a tweet for like two years ago that his doctor apparently passes it out like candy.


Yeah, well, that will definitely pep you up and keep you. Yeah, I've taken that. I've taken Provigil. It without a doubt, it gives you a lot of energy.


It's great if you have to drive and you're not going to get any sleep. It's amazing, amazing for staying awake but yeah. Makes sense. I mean, it's not a speed, technically, it's a different it's in a different class. I've never taken it doesn't elevate your heart rate.


It's banned from I believe it's banned from Olympic competition.


See if that's the case. Nuvigil look up Nuvigil. Is it finasteride? Is that what it's called? Modafinil.


But Dafa, no finasteride is like. I think that's Advil. No that's Viagra. They added it. Oh sure.


It takes them to added to the prohibited substances ten days before the 2004 Olympics. Yeah.


Because it does give you some sort of a stimulant effect but not a stimulant effect like it's. You never have it.


I think so. It's cool. It's weird. It gives you like this weird buzz, like you have this like weird.


I don't necessarily think it increases your IQ. Like I don't think it increases I shinsei say IQ cognitive performance. But I do think it makes you appear like you've increased your cognitive performance. Like maybe it makes you think that you're smarter, but it gives you a more dangerous Selic.


Has it been like no Betsi look up. No benefit for cognitive performance on Provigil? I might be wrong.


I think there's maybe a slight uptick for a lot of people, but for a lot of people, I think one of the things that holds them back is they're just not that healthy. They don't have a lot of energy, you know, like healthy people that are like really vibrant people that are in good shape. They have more energy for stuff and that would make them think better.


Researchers have found them a daffodil boosts high, higher order cognitive function without causing serious side effects. Mudflow, which has been prescribed in the US since 1998 to treat sleep related conditions such as narcolepsy and sleep apnea, heightens alertness as much as caffeine does.


Really selling it. Hmm. Sounds awesome. Yes, but do that again. Click on that again. Does it increase IQ boosts higher order, cognitive function.


I don't know what you'd have to take a couple tests, I guess. Right. I don't know how to test for.


Yeah, it's interesting.


From what I understand, even though it was prescribed for narcolepsy, I believe it was developed for I think it was developed as a performance enhancing drug.


I think they developed it to they were trying to figure out how to increase cognitive function.


And then they said, well, you can't just give a drug out for people that want to get smarter about you. You have to have a reason like a medical condition, because the state of our medical system.


And so then they said, um, narcolepsy, it'll prevent it'll help against narcolepsy.


But a lot of these drugs are developed like that, like they're developed for a purpose completely different than what they end up being.


Nine hundred thousand prescriptions in twenty seventeen in just the US for it most for me that's only that, that makes it the number three hundred and twenty eighth most commonly prescribed.


Wow. It's really good. It's a billion though. I'm not saying you should get on it. I definitely have.


I haven't taken it for years though but I mean you should but it looks like Trump's doing it and things are working out pretty good for that now. Right now though not now is just crazy like a big baby. OK, take your lumps.


But when you I know the guy's an author who says he can't function without it and he writes that's what he uses, uses that stuff. So I don't know the energy without it. Yeah.


But again, I just I think I want people like that's just not that healthy. Right.


And they need something to give them a little pick me up. But you know, I talked to Tim Ferriss about it.


You know, Tim Ferris is into a lot of performance enhancing things and a lot of biohacking type things. And he said that he didn't want to put it in his book.


It was for our body or the for our work. I don't remember which, but which one. It was one of his books, one of his sort of like how to beat the system type books because he goes, I felt like people just aren't going to start eating it like candy.


And he goes, and I feel like there's always a biological like there's no biological free rides. There's always some sort of negative aspect, especially to abuse of something like that.


But when you're 74 and you eat nothing but French fries, you're out there kicking ass. You got to go. Like, how much time has this guy got left anyway?


Well, yeah, but some people are just freaks like that, you know, like some people. That's true. Like some people don't. You know what I mean?


Like some people who are like are like eat like shit and like still fucking like some people just naturally have better cardio, even if they're not like running as much as somebody else, they just naturally have it better. Some people can treat their bodies like shit and still function. Yeah, most people can't.


Right. But Trump is if nothing else, he is unique.


Well, he is different than anyone so quickly. I don't care what drugs they gave him, but it's our job. But he got access to drugs that we don't have. OK, well, given that everybody give those drugs to everybody and then we open up the country and because of that fact. Who's almost dead, he's 74, what is the average life expectancy? I think he's above it. I think 77 is it. It's in the neighborhood.


It's lowered this year because of all the stress. Sure. Let's just say it's seventy six.


So he's two years away from being dead and you guys gave him these magic drugs. Now he's doing five hours of campaigns every day. Whenever those drugs are, you got to give them out to everybody. Seventy six. Yeah, look at that. Yeah. 81 for ChiX. The last yeah, and they complain, well, the last five years, they just laugh, if I can, I win. It's it's kind of great. I mean, I hope this is the big hope, right?


Biden gets in office. The country relaxes all this crazy shit about making lists and everything. People realize there's some that's bad. And then whatever this vaccine is and whatever these treatments are, we're allowed to go back to normal again.


That would be that would be the best case scenario that I think that Joe Biden does something. You know, we'll have a national Marzook mandate or something, and then we'll do that for two months.


And then he goes, we defeated the virus and we did it because we finally got serious and listen to the science.


And but I got to say, I'm not super optimistic that that's the way it's going to go. Well, explain what you were saying to me before the show.


We're talking about governors realizing. Oh, well, I mean power.


Yeah, look, I mean, I think that what's happened over the last year in America is really unprecedented. I mean, the idea that Americans have now accepted to some degree that we could be in a state where we're sitting at home watching our governors on television to find out what we're allowed to do today.


Are we allowed to go to the park? Can I see my grandmother? Can I have my family over?


Can I go to work like the most intimate, basic things that we all took for granted as freedoms?


Of course, the government could never tell you. You can or can't do that.


And now the governors have taken this authority and there wasn't major pushback. I mean, there was a little, but not so much that they couldn't get away with doing it. And I don't know that they're just going to give up that authority now that they've seized it.


I mean, my my thing what I think about covid ultimately the effect that the lockdown's and all this will have, I think it would be something like 9/11 where, you know, like right after 9/11, you remember there was all that fear that there'd be another terrorist attack like, oh, my God, we're terrified this could happen again. And that's kind of gone away.


People don't really live with a fear of another terrorist attack, but the Department of Homeland Security is here to stay. The TSA is here to stay. The wars that we're fighting are seemingly picture to stay. The Patriot Act is here to stay. All of these things and then all the stuff that grew out of the Patriot Act, the crazy NSA spying and all that.


So my guess is that a lot of these things are going to be here to state when you give the government control, it's very hard to get it back from them.


Yes. And that's a difficult dynamic, especially when it's for your own good, like in a medical emergency.


And the problem is we've always lost so many people to so many different medical emergencies, so many different medical problems.


I mean, what if the government changed the way people were allowed to eat?


Because we talked about the money that's like all the heart disease and all the money that is going towards treating heart disease. And we we have to put a stop to this. It's become a real issue in this country.


We're losing half a million people a year, whatever it is, to heart disease and heart attacks. We have to stop this. And so we're going to enforce certain rules and regulations in terms of how you can eat.


And once once you accept this principle, it's there's a lot of different ways that you could you could go down this this line. And the other big one, I would say, is like climate change. I mean, if you accept that covid was this emergency so that we have to lock everyone in their houses and all this stuff. Well, OK, you have a whole bunch of people who are arguing that climate change is an existential crisis that's going to, you know, make all things the planet uninhabitable, uninhabitable, excuse me, for for all living things.


Well, then by that logic, wouldn't that be worth locking people in their homes over?


And so this is it's very dangerous once you've set this precedent that the government can do this and they all look around at each other and realize we got away with this.


And by the way, that's not even if you believe the lockdown's were the right thing to do for covid, which I don't.


But even if you believe that you'd still have to be concerned about this, like authoritarianism that we've kind of like ushered in over this last year, it doesn't mean that that's not a danger anymore.


You know what I mean? Like, even if you think chemotherapy is necessary to kill the cancer, you still have to worry about all the other, you know, like effects of chemotherapy.


And so that's that to me is what's very dangerous about all of this. Joe Biden ran on the idea that he's open to another round of Lockdown's.


And I wonder if people realize, like, how devastating the last round of Lockdown's were and how devastating it would be to do it again.


I don't know. I don't know. The version was right.


Has it really opened when you say, well, like in certain places, like L.A. is locked down?


Yeah. Yeah. Well, never really opened. Right. Right.


They opened a few like things for a few weeks, like gyms and nail salons. And they closed it back down again. Right. So, yeah, so in some places, it is still pretty locked down and then in some places it's kind of quasi locked down, not quite as much as it was back in March, April, May.


But, yeah, no, New York City's never been the same.


And businesses have been destroyed. People's lives have been destroyed over this. It's it's a real it's a real awful thing.


New York City has some crazy amount of apartments that are open like it's bananas.


People have been bailing on the city.


Yeah, like, I think the last check was like double the amount of normal apartments that are available.


Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. People have been moving out like crazy and it's hard. It was hard for a while to get like any numbers on it. But I know like stories I've heard people who work for moving companies saying, like, you can't book us to move. We're completely booked up, like we're moving everybody. We're all going out of the city. You holes were really hard to get.


I'll while that empty, empty rental apartments in Manhattan, triple hitting New York, 16000.


Wow. Well, and that was October 8th. I bet it's even worse now, a month later. But that's not vacancy rate in Manhattan, which is typically two to three percent, is now under six percent. Wow. I just saw something about Los Angeles, some counties in California might be getting rolling back now because the numbers are going up again.


Oh, really? The numbers are going up again.


And of course, all this stuff isn't just the lockdown's. It was also all the riots over this summer and the fear that these riots were going to get worse and worse on the looting and the looting.


Yeah, not that it was already pretty bad, but the fear was kind of like, oh, I guess especially when it was a really crazy thing to see the cops step back and just let people loot.


Oh, it was basically just like, OK, you're going to do it, go for it. Well, we're not even in Santa Monica.


The sheriff gave orders for the cops to stand down. See if that's true because people were criticizing her. It really upset.


And even if there's not even if that hasn't been talked about in other areas, it was pretty clear that they were given orders to to stand down.


And a lot of places, when the numbers get so high, I mean, the cops had abandoned that Minneapolis police station. Right. And it got to the point where they were overcoming the police station.


They let them light the police station on fire.


Yeah, like when I got up in the morning after the shit hit the fan in L.A. and I saw this video of these cop cars, like on the highway just lit on fire, one after the other covered in spray paint, windows smashed in.


I was like, oh, yeah, this is in L.A. This is not in Minnesota. This is not in Minneapolis where it actually happened. This is nowhere near it. And they're lighting other cop cars on fire.


Santa Monica police chief stepped down a couple of weeks ago, OK, recognizing that recent events both here in Santa Monica and around the nation have strained, community police relations chief renown has made the decision to step aside. So the Santa Monica Police Department can continue to move forward. A statement announcing her retirement said, I'm pretty sure she told the cops to stand.


That's where it starts off, saying that, like amid anger over her response to the protests.


Yeah, they the idea was that this is the same idea that the mayor of New York acted on, that you let them burn out, let them get it out of their system, which is that really sucks if you happen to be one of those people caught in the burning it out.


Yeah. You know, yeah. Like, that's that's pretty rough.


You also open up the door to the fact that this can happen again. And if it does happen again, you're not going to do anything again. Well, and it does.


And it seems like there is no at this point now.


It's like if there is an incident that comes out where a cop killed a black guy, we're not even going to wait to figure out what happened here, do an investigation.


Was this an unjustified shooting? Was it justified? It's just going to be the first knee jerk reaction is like, let's start, you know, burning stuff down just like very disturbing and incredibly destructive. And I say that as somebody who's, like, not a fan of policing in this country and think we do have major problems. But I always write from the very beginning in Minneapolis was like, OK, this is like completely unacceptable. You can't, like, support people destroying communities because they're pissed off about an unrelated thing.


Yeah. And any more than you can support the U.S., you know, invading Iraq because they're pissed off about 9/11.


Right. Well, you can't just be like, hey, this guy did something to me, so I'm going to go take it out on this guy. And then people give you these, like, responses like so you care more about looting than about human lives or something.


And you're like, well, that's why is it a choice? Like, why can't I be against all of it?


Yeah, I know. It's a weird narrative. Well, there is there's been a lot of those this year, like there was the oh, you just want to get a haircut was a big narrative, if you like, opposed the lockdown's where you're kind of like that's. Do you really think that's all that human life is leaving your home is just getting a haircut. It's not like I don't know, you know, seeing your family or getting a cancer screening or, you know, like whatever.


All of human life, pretty much it's just reduced to you, just you being able to make your own decisions. Yeah. Like you being able to if you like.


One thing you're allowed to do is enter into the protests.


So people were protesting and everybody thought that was OK. So you're shoulder to shoulder, which I agree with. I don't I don't have any problem with protests. I think it's you have a point. You're allowed to it's part of freedom of assembly. It's part of the Constitution, the bill of Rights. It's part of who we are. You're allowed to protest things that you disagree with. Yeah.


If you're peaceful, I absolutely agree with you.


But if you're going to allow people to do that, you should also allow them to go to the gym. You should also allow them to go to comedy clubs. You should also allow them to go to restaurants. You should allow them to do whatever they want.


And if you say, well, you have to have a consideration that you're going to get all these other people sick if you get sick, OK, but you have to have that with everything. You have to have that with. No one said, hey, I understand that you want to protest and I'm with you. But here's the problem. This could spread the disease. Please don't do it. No one said that. No one said you like.


Do you remember when it first happened, when when the protests first started? And basically the media and even a whole bunch of like epidemiologists and stuff were like, no, it's OK, it's OK for the protest.


That to me was like one of the craziest moments I've ever lived through cognitive dissonance, like and I've I've like all the time talk about how corrupt and how the corporate press are all liars and stuff and all.


But to actually see that they would go like it was like, OK, it was like three months of this complete change of the American way of life where it's like, listen, we all got to do this.


You have to give up everything and stay home because we got to control this disease. And then, like, they were like, oh my God, there were 20 year olds at the beach. Oh, my God, they're going to spread it. And then like two days later, it was like, no, this is totally fine.


Yeah. You're like, what the fuck is going on? How could you possibly rob everything from people? But then you decide that because they're protesting a cause that we agree, like we agree with the cause.


Therefore, this is OK. I was fucking with no negative consequences to it at all.


Yeah. Yeah.


Like, that was really bizarre. And then there were things, you know, I heard a lot of these kind of like anecdotal stories like people would tell.


But I mean, there were things were like, you know, I heard this one story that always stuck with me about a guy whose wife was pregnant and she got sick and it looked like they might lose the baby and they wouldn't let her in. They wouldn't let him in the appointment with her.


So she had no they didn't lose the baby, thank God. And everything was fine. But like she was going into a sonogram to maybe find out that they had lost the baby and they wouldn't let him be there to, like, hold her hand through that. Right.


It's just like I don't know what if you could put a value on that or whatever, but that's quite a thing to ask someone not, you know, to be able to do and then to have epidemiologists go like, well, we think that this protesting is so important that you can go do it, you know, like.


So are you telling that guy that that wasn't important enough? Like, that wasn't important for him to be there?


That's an individual. That's a controlled environment. You could test them. Yeah. You know, and so it's just it's pretty.


And that really did a lot to, like, undermine people's confidence in, like the scientists. And, you know, you want to say follow the science. So it's like, yeah, but this isn't science.


Well, that's recognized. There's a lot of malarkey. And this is not all 100 percent straightforward. Yeah, I was talking to a guy who's very intelligent guy, and he was we were talking about one of these recent studies with covid and UV light and how it shows that it dies very quickly in sunlight. And he goes, well, that's why there was no spread after the riots. I go, do they stop when it went dark? Like, what are you talking about?


There was a spread, like there was an uptick. It was going down and then it came back up again. I mean, it's all like within a week or two of the riots starting like you can you can see the cases, but it's not even like the.


He wanted to believe it. Yeah, no, I understand he's not a part of the media and there was no one around but me.


Yeah, but sometimes people it's a very powerful thing to start with, like an emotional, you know, position and then rationalize from there.




And like we all do that, you know, like myself included a thing where you want to you want to say things and the other person says the same thing. We both agree. You agree to this weird mantra.


Yeah. And then you and you reinforcement have you just bounced it off each other and say we're both more sure that we'll find the right team.


But the weirdest part about it then was that so then they'd go like, OK, oh my God, some kids went to spring break these evil. Killers like how could these kids do this? They don't care about grandma. And then two days later we're protesting and that's totally fine. We're not going to get covered that way. And then another day later, it's like, oh, wait, Trump had a rally. Oh, I mean, this is going to spread covid like crazy.


And it just got so bananas that it's like, dude, like your agenda is just showing.


It's just obvious way and you can maybe defend that agenda. But that's an agenda.


That's not science. It's so inconsistent. Yeah. Yeah, it's ridiculous. It's not science, but. You know, I think also people felt like this is a real chance for change and they're willing to take a risk. You know, these protests were important because they they represented enough is enough and that people are going to get out in the streets. And even if windows got broken and things got lit on fire, at the end of the day, we're going to fix all that, calm it down.


And this was the idea behind it.


Yeah, but I think if you really wanted to make a change, then they couldn't have done a worse job of how they went about it.


And I understand it's a lot of different people, so it's not like any one person you can blame, but like if you like, if you my my buddy Scott Horton, who's fucking genius, by the way, Scott Horton at the Libertarian Institute, and he oh, I'm wearing a shirt pretending to be in it.


But he he said and I really love this, he said, when Black Lives Matter first came out, he was like and he's like as against police brutality as any human being on the planet. He's been writing about this for decades. And he's like he goes, don't call it Black Lives Matter. Call it accountability for killer cops and just run with that.


Like, just run with the narrative that, look, this is what we want and it's something you can't argue for. Don't insert the racial thing. It's going to get played in a million different ways.


And it ends up like creating all these dynamics that aren't helpful to getting to the root of the problem, which is we want these five major policy reforms. You know, we want to, you know, accountability for killer cops and the war on drugs and qualified immunity and civil asset forfeiture.


You know, we picked some really important things that would actually save lives and go hard at those.


But the problem is that then you have the way the movement goes and then you have the rioting and stuff like that in the looting.


And then this ends up turning a lot of people off who would maybe be sympathetic.


But don't you think that over and over again you see white cop, black victim, white cop, black victim, over and over and over again, you see this narrative, whether or not it's representative of interactions with cops as a whole, it doesn't matter because those are the videos that go viral. I think there's probably millions of interactions where nothing goes wrong at all, but those don't matter. What matters is when they do go viral so many times, Eric Garner, this George Floyd case so many times, white cop, black victim.


So they you have to acknowledge the racial aspect of it.


I think just by saying it, justice against killer cops or get rid of killer cops, you're you're you're not addressing.


The thing that is maybe most disturbing to many people is that it keeps being a white cop and a black man.


I think that there are there are certainly videos where that is the case. There's also a lot of videos where that's not the case.


They don't get the same amount of play in the press, but the ones that become viral, these big stories.


But but the question of why those ones become such big stories and the other ones don't. My point is that if you when you play up the racial like aspect of it, what you end up doing is then so then you start having this conversation we're having we're OK. So about twice as many white people are unarmed. White people are killed by cops every year than black people. But black people aren't half the population of white people.


So black people are like 13 percent of the population. So for them to be, you know, whatever it is like 40 percent or something like that of the killings, it is disproportionate. Then you have to take into account where the high crime neighborhoods are, how many interactions they're having with police. Like I I understand there are these videos that go viral. What happened to me, in my opinion, what happened to George Floyd was like horrific and people should go to jail over that shit.


I think what happened to Brianna Taylor was horrific and people should go to jail over that shit.


It's not clear to me at all that race was a factor in those cases. I could be wrong about that.


I just haven't really seen any evidence to suggest that it was. But maybe it is. I just think that you you end up going down this route. So one of the activists in Minneapolis said this thing and this is where like Wokingham comes in to poison the shit from my perspective. So he said they don't want to call it they call it police brutality anymore.


They want to call it systemic racism because this is just another form of systemic racism. Forget the term police brutality. And what ends up happening when you look at things that way is what you don't get rid of is police brutality.


What you end up getting rid of is Aunt Jemima.


You know, it becomes a distraction of other issues rather than focusing on the major issues that you care about. And I'm just saying I'm just saying, if you wanted to be effective, I think Black Lives Matter would be better off to share some of those videos of it happening to white people also.


And go, look, this isn't just black people's problem. This is a cop on civilian problem. This is a government authoritarian problem where there have been some that went viral.


The one that was most disturbing to me was the guy in Phoenix, Shavar, I believe his last name was on his way.


Yeah, crawling. They made him crawl and he kept reaching back to pick his pants up. As they're falling down, he's crying and begging for his life. And the guy lit them up on the. The worst one I've ever seen, it's insane because he made the guy crawl to him and then he gun them down as he was crawling to him and he's screaming at him the whole time, screaming at him. Well, you know, and he had a toy gun or something like that.


And they saw him with a toy gun out the window and they called in the SWAT team. So they came in, geared up and revved up. There's been a lot of police brutality videos. The Sandra Bland one is particularly disturbing. And she didn't do anything wrong, like telling her to put her cigarette out in her car. Like, who the fuck are you to tell her to go to jail?


Yeah, she hung herself or something happened something. Yeah, who knows. We don't know.


That's part of the problem. But the racial aspect of it, when you're a if you're a person who's a black person or any person of color and you see over and over again a white cop killing a black person, whether it's representative, I mean, you're not going to think when you see those videos. Oh, well, there's a million interactions and most of them are positive. You're just going to know your experiences with cops. And if cops are bullied, you and fuck with you or maybe you've been a victim of police brutality yourself.


And then you're going to think of how many times has been a white cop doing it to a black person. And I think the number is not insignificant. It has to be addressed.


Yeah, look, I certainly understand why that would be a lot of people's perspective. I get that completely. I'm just saying that from the way I look at it is like I think that, like, really for the first time that I've ever seen, I thought leading up to the George Floyd situation that right wingers were really getting red pilled on.


Cops like they were actually getting really pissed off at the cops because the cops were the ones enforcing these lockdowns and they were against it.


And there was a lot of, like stuff where right wingers would be like, can you believe these cops are actually doing this if they'll shut down? You know, they were shutting down churches. That's something that pisses right wingers off.


And and so and then when the George Floyd thing came out, I think pretty much everybody, not everybody, but the vast majority of the public was like, that is really horrible what happened to that guy?


And I think there was a lot of energy that could have actually been used for real change.


And I think that what's happened since then has basically blown it because that you see what happens then when people see rioting and looting, who do they who do they want?


They want the cops. They want the cops back. It's like it's almost like that was proof.


Like it's almost like you're working to prove the right wingers right about what they thought about the cops to begin with, which is that, well, if we don't have cops, this is what we have, just looting and rioting and violence.


Well, if you don't have cops and then you have civil unrest and then also you have a bunch of people that have no money because they've been locked down for all this time. And then you have opportunity because you get sheriffs like the one in Santa Monica that tells everybody to stand down and then you have chaos. Yeah, that's that's it's a recipe for disaster. But it's also it's really easy to break things.


It's not so easy to fix them. It's not so easy to bring it all back together again the way it was 11 months ago. Like, try, try, get in there right now. It's going to take you 11 years.


Well, that's right. And you may never get it. You might not know. I like one thing that I think that I think people the the ones who really wanted Trump out and I understand why a lot of them did.


I think a lot of people just had, like, Trump fatigue, like I just can't deal with this bullshit anymore.


Like, I just can't.


But I think they they should realize the possibility that we're never going to a pre Trump world again, like never 100 percent. Right. You know, and I think we may never go to a pre covid world again and we may never go to a pre, you know, Black Lives Matter world again. Like, we might get closer to that than we are now.


But I don't know that we'll ever go back to that time completely in the same way that we never went to a pre 9/11 world again or a pre Kennedy assassination world again.


There's there's certain events in our our history that they change us forever. And this is most certainly one of those events. But you probably could have said the same thing about the Spanish flu, although I don't think the government or the media was a sophisticated back then. And there was a lot more there's a lot more hardship in the world, period. And and then what happened right after the Spanish flu was the roaring 20s. Right. That was immediately afterwards.


And then, of course, the Great Depression. There's been a lot of ups and downs and hills and valleys back then, but those people got through that and then stopped wearing masks. So it's weird when you see the photos from the Spanish flu. I never knew that they were wearing masks, that people wore masks in public. But when you look at these old black and white photos, it's really kind of interesting, like your.


Oh, look at that. It's almost like I know the real pictures. But if they were like Photoshop masks on these people and and pretended that there was a pandemic back then, that's what it looked like. It looked almost fake.


Yeah. Yeah, I know. I've seen some of those those photos, but I know what you mean where I think like what you said is really the heart of it, that your life was just so much harder back then. Here we go. Look at this. Yes.


People sitting around looks like they're watching a baseball is a football game. So you look at them, they all have masks on. Crazy, but they still want to see the game, you hear about the flu being down dramatically. Look at these. All these players have masks on. Isn't that nuts? The football squad has masks on. What year is that, Jamie?


I typed in Spanish flu sport football game because I remember seeing this picture. It says it's 1918 over, too, so.


Wow, that's nuts. So do they ultimately come up with a vaccine for the Spanish flu? Is that look like they're playing baseball with the fucking masks on? Wow. She does not seem fake to you.


I know it's real. Yeah. But it seems like what I don't I never saw these before. Like, nobody.


That guy's a rebel so that he's on parler.


He doesn't wear like I also saw something that was like this was not actual. They didn't wear masks. But like, I couldn't I couldn't I don't know what was actually accurate.


I think we've got to stop people from wearing masks in their Twitter profiles. Fuck, stop.


That's basically the same thing as your pronouns, your bio. It's basically the exact same thing. Stop letting everybody else know that you're a good person. If you want to be a good person, just go be a good person.


Some people do podcasts or masks on, she says. I've seen that. Really? Oh, yeah. I'm like, oh yeah.


See, by the way, this is what I hate all of this shit where it's like I how about like and this is one of the things that I hate about like Wokingham in general too, is that it lets everybody kind of like pretend they're like let everyone else know they're a good person, but you don't actually have to do shit.


Do you see Kamala Harris, one of the press conferences wearing a mask while she was talking one of her speeches, sort of Mascha while she's speaking?


There's so many things that are so weird about this whole of this whole response.


Were you like that doesn't even make sense. Even by your own logic. No one's near you. See, when they fall, you're on a podium.


So they canceled the second debate between Trump and Biden, and then they both had live events the night of the debate.


Like they just both had an event. He did one with Trump, did one with NBC and Biden did one with CNN.


And you guys are so fucking like we don't get on a plane and fucking debate each other.


Like, what are you doing?


Well, I think the first one was so aggressive. Like, what would Trump did was so disruptive and aggressive that it was a bad strategy.


Yes. And I think the second one was brilliant.


If he did in the first one what he did in the second one, I think he would have much more momentum coming into the election or maybe if he had had the the middle one.


So there were three debates. You know, like if that one hadn't been canceled, he would have had two more opportunities.


The third one that. Well, the third one was the one you're talking. The second one is that. Yeah, well, let's just talk about the option. Yeah.


You know what I'm just saying? Like, maybe if he had had another debate where he could have handled it the way he did in that second one. Also, maybe if he had two performances like that would have helped him a little bit.


Right. But I see what you're saying. Yeah. If he just did that in the first without the bad one, without the interrupting one, that was just so hard to listen to. It was like I was like, oh, damn. Because, you know, that was when there was talk about like Trump was tweeting that he wanted to come on here and have me and him and Biden talk for four hours. And I was like, what would I do if he was doing that?


I would have to stop him. I don't have to say, hey, man, I get sir. And I understand you, the president, Mr. Trump, you can't do that because you got to let the guy talk and then don't say anything. And then you talk like this the only way this is going to work.


Yeah, but I think you would have handled it like that in a way, better way than than Chris Wallace was doing the best he could.


And he's also he's got 90 minutes, which is preposterous. And they have two minutes to answer questions, which is ridiculous. These are really important questions like why do you have two minutes?


Like what if after two minutes, like, I think I got a better way to say that. No, shut the fuck up. Stop. Two minutes are over, sir. Your time is up. Your time is up. Like what? What kind of why is there a race?


It's insane. It makes no sense at all. And that's what one of my favorite things about this show is that you've almost proven.


I think it's part of the reason why so many so many of those establishment types like resent you a lot for it is that you've proven that their whole model is stupid, like this model is stupid.


Well, you have a show where people need time to unpack things and have a long conversation. If you're talking about really serious, complex issues, the idea that we're debating who gets to have the nuclear football, but we've got to do it in this limited time and you'll have thirty seconds each.


It's also retarded.


They don't know what they're going to talk about. That's important to one of the important things about podcasts is there's no no one ever sits down with, like, OK, we're going to hit this and they're going to hit that.


Alex Jones tried to the producer well, he came with his list. He had things that he wanted to talk about that were important.


Yeah. He that he felt were important. But that's not what you're saying.


You're talking about more of like the scripted kind of talking about me bringing things up with them. Like if I said, sir, your job perform or, you know, job numbers and have elevated, what do you attribute that to, like that kind of shit with they to prepare?


If you have enough time to let these guys talk, just talk and no pressure whatsoever on. Figuring out how to answer a sentence or a subject rather coherently, you're going to get a better understanding of who that person is.


Now with Trump, everybody thinks they already have a good understanding of who he is because he goes in these long, rambling, self-serving diatribes about subjects.


But to have just to see that if you get him to calm down a little and see Biden and him talking through things, just let them talk. Let them talk through things. Let Biden say something about Trump. Let Trump say something about Biden. Don't say you only have two minutes. Don't say any of that shit. Just let him talk. See what that. See what happens. I wish that would have happened. That would have been fascinating.


That really would have been. And by the way, I think Trump, because Trump is kind of a master troll. I think he knew that Biden would never agree to it. And that's half the reason why he did it. He would never fucking agree.


There's no way that would not have been good for Biden.


It would be so beneath him to come here to like, what are you doing? But would it, though?


I mean, dude, you're fucking Awais. Well, yeah, I guess I think the corporate press would have lost their shit if they because if they lose that to you, then they've just lost everything. Would you would you have Trump on President Trump?


It just doesn't seem like a smart move at this point.


But I think all of those like it. Like in a year, I don't know. We're talking to here said that the great dude, he's going to run again.


If he maybe they booed him out of office in 2024. He's going to start running in January and he might. Yeah, he's going to run for four years.


He's going to talk shit for four years.


I have a feeling Trump's they're going to really come after him in his post presidency. I think he's going to be cooling off Twitter. I think he's going to get completely like the Alex Jones treatment on social media. And I think that there's going to be they're legally going to try to come after him. I don't think there's no way you're right.


They can't just let him they can't just let him be Trump, which would be amazing. But they can't just let him be Trump.


He's literally he could set up his own Oval Office and say, I am the real president, I'm the real president.


This is now the Oval Office and I'm giving the military commands from here. They stole it from me.


Didn't he have some wacky painting with, like him sitting there and like all the other presidents behind him with their hands on his shoulder or something? Oh, I remember this correctly. I don't know this.


I think he had something in the Oval Office that was like really preposterous where people saw it and like, what in the fuck are you doing?


Just believe there it is right there. I mean, they're all sitting around. Ronald Reagan's at the table. Nixon's their Lincoln. Lincoln, he's a he's next to Eisenhower.


Is he the only one that I know whose hours and hours of time as well? No, Eisenhower. Roosevelt, Roosevelt has a tie.


Yeah, Eisenhower's in the yellow. Eisenhower's relaxed. He's retired as Charles Reagan. And there's G.W. in there.


Is that the pain that he has on his wall?


Trump hangs fantasy painting with other GOP presidents at the White House. Look at that. So he's got this prize of them all. Yuck, yuck, yuck. In a way, we're all having a great old time with you. Oh, wow.


Lincoln's there. Oh, how weird is that? Imagine they're all looking at Trump when Lincoln's alive, you'd be like, hey, man, what was it like in 1776?


You wouldn't be you wouldn't be talking to Trump. That's hilarious. Him with his red tie, they would all be staring at Lincoln going, Jesus, how'd you get here?


What's going on?


Probably you'd be like, holy shit. Eisenhower is like, holy shit, Lincoln. Holy shit. Yeah. You just pull Lincoln and Eisenhower aside. Eisenhower's speech about the military industrial complex when he's leaving office is to this day one of the most chilling things I've ever seen. It's right up there with Oppenheimer talking about quoting the Bhagavad Gita after he detonated the bomb.


Yeah, it's like, whoa. Yeah. What is this thing like? I am the maker of death society.


Well, he quotes Shiva. I am become death destroyer of Worlds.


Yeah. Yeah, that is that's creepy. But Eisenhower's thing, I think I could be wrong about this, but I believe that Trump in the clip we played earlier is the second president to ever use the term military industrial complex.


I don't know. I could be wrong about that. But I've never heard another president say the term military industrial complex other than Eisenhower in his farewell address and Trump and that.


And it was particularly, you know, crazy coming from Eisenhower, who's the fucking general? You know, like he is the guy who led the victory in World War two, which leads to this creation of really what we know is the military industrial complex.


And even as he's going, he's like, listen, let me tell you something.


We've created something here that we got to really worry about because we're not America anymore, the way we've been before this. Now, we have a whole industry that's pushing toward war and we got to guard against this power. And he specifically, he says, sought or unsought was a really interesting way to put it.


It's like even if they're not. Trying to there's kind of these natural forces of like you're a weapons company, so what do you think? Yeah, you think we should have a bigger military budget or a smaller one? Probably a bigger one.


Right. And then it's like, so all of these forces and then the next president after Eisenhower is a JFK who, you know. Some shit went down there, too, so it's wrapped it up real quick. Yeah, so there's just there's a lot of really, you know, kind of interesting history there. But that we let's just say we didn't listen to Eisenhower and we did not guard against power sought by the military industrial complex.


Yeah, it's what it's such an interesting choice, too, because I guess he had the ability to say whatever he wanted in the nation's address, being the president.


Like, it seems pretty clear that he didn't have to run that by anyone. And you wonder, what do they have to run by now when you have the discussion, when people say, oh, they always lie when they want to get into president, into office and then they get into office, they don't do shit.


They don't do any of the things they said they were going to do. What happens when you get in there? You know, is it like the Bill Hicks joke where they show you an angle of the Kennedy assassination and then you go, well, what's my agenda? Is that it or is it do they show you a real model of the world that you're not privy to?


If you're not the president? Do they sit you down, talk about all the threats and the problems and how it all really works and ties together? Like what is it?


It's and it's you know, I don't know. But it's also possible that it's kind of somewhere in between where there's maybe they're not, you know, showing you the Kennedy assassination film like the great Bill Hicks joke.


But, you know, look, I know that Donald Trump got in there and he ran on were ending all of these wars. And that's it. These now, you know, from like a Trump in perspective, it wasn't like a Ron Paul. You know, like these wars kill all these innocent people. It was like a Trump like this is bad business.


You know, we're wasting money on these wars that we're ending them like I'm too smart for them.


Trump is blasting the military industrial complex, but he's one of its biggest boosters.


Well, that's that's true, too. That's that's for sure. Has made the purchase public display and foreign sales of military hardware a major priority of his administration.


Yeah, I found two articles that were talking about, like he says, the stuff about the military industrial complex. However, his actions say differently, like he gave them more money than anybody ever.


Oh, yeah. No, there were increased defense budgets under Donald Trump, for sure. Right.


But there also he's he do you think he really actually is trying to get out of these countries, though? I mean, you could do both things right. You can increase the defense budget, but not do it in an offensive way, increase it defensively, increase the amount of money that you give to the troops, their ability to fight ISIS, the ability to make new weapons and innovate. Yeah, you could do both things simultaneously. Right.


I think that at least from everything I've read, that he really is trying to get out of Afghanistan and that he really is trying to work out a deal to end that war there, says the idea that Trump is taking on the defense industrial base is pure fantasy and national security action, National Security Action, a Liberty advocacy group composed of former Obama administration staffer, said on Tuesday.


All right, we're good enough.


But look, I mean, there is I will say, though, to Trump's credit, he did avoid getting us in another war and there were some opportunities.




And he he avoided he flirted with it certainly in Iran and really in Venezuela as well.


But he never got us into that war. And there were definitely a lot of people around him who really wanted him to get into those wars. And he did avoid that.


But, you know, like when he first came in and he was running on, like, ending all of these wars, the guy, the military guy who he made his national security adviser was Flynn like that was his guy who was going to come in and lead us out of these wars.


And what happened immediately, the NSA and the FBI targeted Flynn, got dirt on him, got him removed, and then they get somebody else in there.


So it might be also that they don't necessarily have to, like, threaten your family or show you the angle of JFK.


But they could just be like, well, we're just going to remove all the people from your cabinet who we don't like, kind of get our people in there and keep the machine roll that FLINTSHIRE the spooky, because you think the guy gets to that level, the military, he's immune to that, not him now.


And he is, from what I've heard, like a little bit of a crazy guy, but he was not working with the Russians. That was just complete bullshit. And they had nothing on the FBI completely set him up.


It's just so amazing that they can do that. What's up, Jamie? I just like his remember, he wanted to run the parade where he did actually do it. He brought in all the tanks and missiles. Yeah. And troops and fucking showed off everything we have. Oh yeah.


Yeah. That was a big thing he wanted. No, Trump was not my cock.


Basically I get my giant metal cock that dragging it down the street. That's basically what it all came down to.


Fuck. Dave, it's so depressing.


What can you do, what do you do to stay happy? What do you do? What do I do? Yeah, what do you do to avoid just getting sucked into this constant state?


Well, I existential. Whoa. I got a perfect little two year old and, you know, I love my wife, so.


But that's but really that's the best you can do is try to try to like get good people around you in your life, be good to them, create your own little world as much as you can.


And then I think that you like the best thing is to try to keep perspective that even with all the fucked up shit in the world, there's always been a ton of fucked up shit in the world.


And people have always people have persevered through far worse than what we are going through right now.


And I think that's kind of the best out, you know, take to have. That's what keeps me sane.


Mhm. Yeah. Right.


Make your, your little circle happy. Who are you around the people you're around. Be kind, be friendly, have a good time, be nice to each other, enjoy your time together. Enjoy each other's company. Yeah. This, you know, when you think about what you can do in terms of impacting the world or impacting the country. It's real, it's a cliche to say, start with the people that are around you. It really is cliche, but it is kind of true because you do have a ripple effect on the way you treat people and the friendships you have and how it affects other people.


And the more good people that you're around, the more they affect other people. There's always some kind of a ripple effect if we can get more people to adopt it.


That's where mushroom legalization comes in.


Yeah, well, that's that's a they had some good they had some good victories for mushroom organs like Phuket. Do Coke. Yeah. Oregon's like, look, if you want to light everything on fire all the time, how about do mushrooms do whatever the fuck you want to stop lighting things on fire?


Yeah, but, you know, and it's by the way, it's great that they did that. And it's the smartest thing to. Yeah. The whole the whole idea of drugs being illegal. The war on drugs is so misguided and just awful and just ruins people's lives, creates black markets, leads to violent crime, destroys neighborhoods.


It's at least I'd say probably 60 percent of the entire immigration problem is just the war on drugs. You know, they constantly they'll be like, well, there's these gang members who are smuggling drugs over the borders. And it's like, well, yeah, why? Because there's a demand for them and in the market and it's illegal. So this is where you get it from. And yeah, of course, there's crime associated with that, too. I mean, it's like so it is the mushrooms is just the idea that it's illegal is insane.


I mean, it's like first of all, you can't get addicted physically. I don't think you could get addicted. Your body will reject it after a certain point of time like you can. It's never made anyone do anything.


Fuck it. Well, people maybe not.


That's an overstatement. It's mostly broken people. It's not a huge problem that people are taking mushrooms and committing violent crimes.


There's just really no justification for, especially when there's alcohol all over the place. Yeah, come on in liquor stores, every other corner.


And it's too easy to get some drugs and impossible to get others. And the fact that the ones that are super beneficial, like there's a study that I posted the other day on my Instagram, that they show that psilocybin therapy's four times more effective for treating depression than than antidepressants that we're currently using.


Yeah, I mean, there's the war on drugs. Somebody wrote an article that the war on drugs was that drugs were a big winner in 20/20 in the war on drugs because of the elections.


Drugs won in a lot of places like legalize marijuana in New Jersey, Montana, Portland says, fuck it, let's go with everything.


I think the drugs have fought a real guerrilla strategy in the war on drugs. It's been 40 years of the cops just kicking their fuckin ass. But drugs never gave up. They always hung in there. They disappear and then they come back strong. Like what?


What drugs have gone down in usage? What went in during the war on drugs, what drugs, what drugs have people, maybe not even heroin pills like shooting up maybe?


Yeah, I mean, I don't even know, you know, Quaaludes. I guess some things have gone away that were really great, but they don't pass.


Yeah, but I think it's unrelated to the legality of it. And I think these things kind of ebb and flow. Right. Like there was like crack cocaine came and kind of left and then heroin, like, got big again, but they were all illegal the whole time. It's not like they were gone because they're illegal.


People who are doing heroin people were throwing their lives away with really hard drugs are not affected by a law.


And people who would never do heroin are not going to start doing heroin because it's legal to remember. Just say no when you're young. I was young for that, but I do remember it.


Yeah, I remember I was I believe I was in high school. I remember it was around that maybe I was early 20s, but I remember seeing that call.


What in the fuck did you just say? Just say no. Oh, you fixed it. So I think that was an option.


I didn't know. You just say no. If only someone had given me this tool.


There's certain things in the past that are just like you look back, what do you remember the yellow the codes for?


Like, what was the possibility of a terrorist attack? Was it code orange? I'd go, oh, shit, it's code orange. What does that mean?


And it was so much just to keep everyone in a state of fear. Oh, did you guys see we went from orange to red today. Oh, that's bad. Code red. What do they know that we don't know.


That's what California is it now for the Koven stuff like they're in purple, whatever, like purple dick blue balls and your dick gangrened, you won't you leave the house for eight months.


But it is it's always like when when you've got like a decade to look back at the shit.


That's when you always see how full of shit the government was like, oh, they were so full of shit about that. They're full.


That's what you look back and you see, you know, Dick Cheney going, we're going to find those weapons of mass destruction. They're here somewhere. And you're like, oh, he was just lying to all of us.


This was complete bullshit. What was that? Was it Colin Powell that said the the proof might come in the form of a mushroom cloud? I believe that was Condoleezza Rice was there, said that.


But Colin Powell went to the U.N. with drawings of Saddam Hussein's mobile WMD like fucking trucks or something. And he was like, this is where they go down here and this is where they go. They just all made up nonsense. But just like really selling it, like, really.


I wonder what they told him, I wonder if he believed it while he was saying it, you know, because he didn't seem like the type of guy I'd be lying about, something like that.


But then they always he's like the one that they kind of like vindicate later. Like he's supposed to be the good one, never, you know, behind closed doors. He really never wanted this war. It's like. But then he went and sold it to everybody. Wouldn't that make him even worse?


Like, I mean, look, you can resign.


Like, that is an option. You don't have to just go like, well, I'm against this, but they want me to sell a war based on lies.


So I got to be a team player and go, you know, get the country in a war. How about don't do that.


Do you think did he ever really did believe it, though? Was there maybe a time where he got the evidence and he was like, oh, shit, this is real?


I don't know. I think that he was you know, he was a part of the first Iraq war. And I think that there's there my guess is that there might be part of him who really wanted to go fuck and take Saddam out.


As you could imagine, if you were leading a military invasion and some of your men were killed by this guy, even though not too many were killed.


But I'm sure you'd have a personal a personal thing. And so I think that might have been part of it.


I think they all you know, you can't remove it from the context that George H.W. Bush's, you know, presidency, they fought a war in Iraq and then W's in there, and now all of a sudden basically was handed a blank check for war like, well, 9/11 just happened. What do you want? What more do you want? You got it. Because whatever one you decide, but make it a good one, you know?


And remember how many people were behind it, though. Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. It was a blind patriotism type. Folks who don't remember you too young. And in 2001 when the Iraq war hit.


Before excuse me, when 9/11 hit, we were overwhelmed by American flags on cars. It was crazy, like it was way, way different than anything I'd seen before.


You drive to work and everyone would have an American flag on their car. So I remember looking around going, whoa, this is nuts. But there was also this weird feeling of unity, like people were letting people in front of them and they're laying there were this weird feeling of we're together.


Well, it's a really it's really interesting that you say that you're right. It was the most unified we we've ever been.


And that almost is the other point, that unity isn't necessarily good, like unity can go in some bad places, too.


So you know what? Joe Biden's call for unity now?


Well, we had real unity after 9/11. I mean, as much as you could have. And what we did was basically get behind George W. Bush as he ruined the 21st century.


We thought we were getting behind George W. Bush because we thought there was weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and he was going to go in there and take them out.


Yeah, but it's much easier when everybody's unified and behind a leader. It's much easier to be persuaded that he's doing this great thing for all of us. And yeah, I think people were behind him for somewhat noble reasons, like, yeah, we're going to go get the guys who got us.


And by the end of George Bush's, you know, like nowadays, looking back at George Bush, it's hard for people who were like young then or weren't alive then to even imagine that he was a really popular president, because by the end, he had given us two disastrous wars and the worst economy. And he was really popular right after 9/11, huh?


Yeah. Like he gave a great speech in New York.


I loved him then. Yeah, I was in yeah. We were all and to remember, we had that Mission Accomplished banner over that. Yeah. And everybody was like, what the fuck are you talking about.


We're still there and we're still there. Yeah, we're still there now. Mission accomplished. Yeah. What's the mission.


Well I suppose he could say we took out Saddam Hussein. Yeah.


I mean, if that was the mission, like, OK, I was watching Saddam Hussein's trial yesterday. Oh yeah. I watched watched on YouTube, popped up and just let me watch this go wild.


He's screaming at the judge screaming. The judge is one of his guys. He works for us in his underwear.


Like like it was so strange when he's screaming at the God that he would at that judge that he wouldn't let them have a prayer break. Do you remember do you ever see that part where he's like, we should have a prayer break now? And he's like, this is a court of law. And he's like, is this greater than Allah? And yelling at it? But it's really weird.


It's crazy to be like secular, though his administration was, well, relatively free for that part of the world. But he was still, you know, like I mean, it's they're all Muslims, you know, and like you.


But it was really crazy to think this dictator who ruled over this country with an iron fist is now sitting there with a judge, you know, like telling him what to do.


And it's just a very weird fucking dynamic. Yeah, but that that war really fucking destroyed the fucking region, man. Yeah. It was such a bad idea to fucking overthrow Saddam Hussein. It was like the worst foreign policy decision. Forget even just like that, like, oh, this is, you know, evil. We're going to kill all these innocent people just the like.


You are going to destroy this region and just throw it into chaos and isn't aware that the idea of overthrowing an evil dictator can be a bad idea. Yeah, it's weird, right?


Well, you say like, well, you know, I don't necessarily agree that we're the police force of the world, but I do think that if anybody's going to do it, it's going to be the United States. Right. So let's go in and take out this bad guy. But it's not that simple. Not at all.


Not at all. Yeah. No one and even like supporting a dictator sometimes is like the best option in terms of like the loss of overall life.


That's the best, which is a really weird decision. Like, you have to you have to support someone who, you know, is terrorizing their people, because if you don't, then you get what's in Libya.


Yeah. Which is like a failed state. Yeah, it's crazy.


So much worse for the for regular people than it was under Gadhafi. Do you remember the video of them capturing Gadhafi when he shoves a knife up his ass? Yep. And he's just standing there.


He's in such shock, dragging them, beating them, sodomizing them. Yeah. Realized that they had him and he realized that they had him. And he's surrounded by all these people.


And just look just full shock. The guy shoves a knife up his ass. Yeah.


Like you see the guy do it and he's standing there like, oh, this knife goes up is so hot.


Imagine of this country that you've ruled over for decades that can fucking just all of a sudden they've got you.


He rolled over when I was a kid. Yeah. Yeah, he was he was the boogie man for a while.


They put him in place right in the United States. Put him in place. I feel like sure about that there was something either he or we supported him once he got in. We did. We support we supported him at one period. And in fact, we were we were working with him after 9/11. He was really cooperating with George W. Bush administration.


He was ratting out terrorists, giving us the fucking terrorists. He turned over all his chemical weapons and stuff.


He wanted to play ball. He saw with the Bush administration was doing.


And he was like, OK, I'm getting on Team America here. And that didn't do any good.


One of my favorite Hillary Clinton videos is her laughing after he was dead. Yeah, her her going.


We came. We saw he died. Yeah.


It's like, hey, Hillary, like one of her handlers has to be like, hey, we're reminding you, you're trying to convince these people you're human.


Yeah, it is. This guy's is a stick. I don't think so. The knife. I think so.


Whatever he's shoving something up is a frame by frame breakdown ask. And that is a knife. Yeah. Oh, let me do that again.


Right up his ass. Like, dude, I'm going to be the guy.


You know how they have that flag was planted in Iwo Jima, all the troops and they're standing there holding up that flag. I'm wondering where that guy lives.


They got they got a bronze statue of him with the knife going right. Of Saddam Hussein's asshole.


Yeah. Gadhafi excuse me. Gadhafi knocked off his ass. I don't think so, because the country's completely been destroyed since then. So that if they did have that statue, it's probably fallen down and been melted and turned it to bullets. Yeah. Thirty bullets are helped.


The slave trade there and the slave trade on YouTube when you watch the video in Libya. Yeah. Yeah. Insane. Yeah. And like slave auctions.


And this was by the way, this is what this this whole thing. And we're talking about overthrowing Gadhafi, destroying the country, leading to the open air slave trade markets. This was all done under Obama's administration with Hillary Clinton pushing for it with Joe Biden as the vice president. So, again, just the idea that like, oh, yeah, Trump's gone and we've returned to normal. All right. But if normal is, you know, getting us into wars in Libya and Syria and Yemen, continuing the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, there's some pretty negative aspects to normal.


So let's let's play not even devil's advocate, but let's imagine what do you do if you don't help them overthrow Libya? If you do decide this guy's an evil dictator and has been for decades, you want to get him out.


But what do you do? Do you fund the people that are trying to get him out if that doesn't work? And what if it does work and they get him, they get him out and they kill him like they did?


How do you ensure that democracy gets instituted when it's never been successful anywhere else that we've overthrown? Is there one place that we've overthrown you, them now? They're doing great.


Germany and Japan, that would be that would be the examples. Right, in Germany and Japan.


However, in order to achieve that, we had to fight the bloodiest war in human history and straight up target civilians.


I mean, in order to achieve that, we had to just straight up be like, yeah, we're dropping bombs on women and children intentionally, not like they're collateral damage, like we're nuking cities in Japan. We're just. Yeah, and that seems like that doesn't seem like it's going to be achieved in the Middle East.


I think the idea that we can do anything to ensure that there's a fair democratic process in Libya is just so beyond absurdity. We are having trouble doing that here. Like the Washington, D.C., Washington has a huge crime problem.


These politicians can't even figure out crime in Washington, D.C.. Right. The idea that they're going to take on the crime problem in Libya is like so beyond absurd. I just think, like, this country was never found it to be the policemen of the world. We're not supposed to be an empire, even though we are. It's empires crumble and die. We need to entirely, particularly now when we have so many problems at home entirely get out of the empire business.


It's we can try to, like, spread good ideas, be a city on a hill, be like, hey, guys, this is a better way to run society.


But the idea that we have to get into the internal politics of whether Libya has a dictator or a democracy or like democracy is not necessarily any better of a situation. If 60 percent of the people there want to kill the other 40 percent, democracy ain't going to work out very well and give everybody a vote. Who are they going to vote for? So what do you do?


You just hope they figure it out on their own? Yeah, I think so.


But I mean, look, it's not it's like that's just the way the world works. I don't think we I don't think we have a right to impose our will on other people. And I don't think it's effective to impose our will on other people. Then look at the results.


We're just wasted trillions of dollars we don't have for all of these post 9/11 wars.


We don't have one victory to show even anything that's even remotely close to a victory. Every one of the countries we've been in is worse off now than it was before we got into them.


Afghanistan's worse, Iraq's worse, Libya's worse, Syria's worse. Yemen is way, way worse.


So it's just outside of Libya and Yemen. Is it possible to say that the rest of the world is better off the way Iraq is and the way Afghanistan is today? That Iran for Iran is better off of Russia, Iran is better off, they've taken over complete influence of that region.


So this is of our enemies are and now they're our enemies again.


Now, now that's the problem, that basically that's the problem, that since the end of the Bush administration, all through the Obama administration and into Trump, is that now their big problem is, you know, Iran just has all this influence in the region.


What are we going to do about that? It's like, well, maybe if you didn't fucking fight a war on behalf of Iran, then they wouldn't have so much influence. So there are there are winners like to all of this stuff. Honestly, you know, the big winner is the biggest winner of all of this, says this is Osama bin Laden. He got exactly what he wanted. He drew America into these fucking conflicts.


This was literally his plan was will we could never destroy America, but we could lure America into the Middle East and make themselves spend themselves into debt, you know, like unravel their whole extend themselves way too far militarily. This is how you get empires to collapse. This was his plan.


Well, that was how they got rid of the Soviet Union, right? Yeah. We and our CIA taught them how to do it. Yeah.


When he was with the Mujahideen. Yeah. Yeah. When the Soviet Union was occupying Afghanistan and they couldn't figure it out and they were like, we got this. We'll figure out how to do it. Right.


Yeah, it's it's just no one ever no one ever gets it right after you get rid of a dictator. Like we don't have any examples other than Hitler, right.


Yeah, well, it's I mean, I'm sure there are other examples of getting rid of a dictator, but usually it has to come from the people.


Right. Kind of like, you know, like realizing they want something better.


But of us getting rid of someone, is there any time that the United States overthrew a dictator and then everything got better? Yeah.


I mean, again, I guess Japan, if you could, the emperor or whatever, to be identical, he bowed down.


Right? Didn't he just surrender ultimately? Was he still in charge now?


And I don't know that he ever was really in charge, but there's yeah, it's a very different culture. It's a different circumstance.


And also but look like the thing you were saying, the problem with overthrowing a dictator is that and it's something that people should consider in a lot of these situations that things can be worse.


You know, like I mean, maybe sometimes it couldn't be much worse, you know what I mean? Yeah. OK, you're not going to get much worse than Hitler or Stalin. I mean, I guess, but it's hard to imagine.


But they would say, like we went to war in World War One with the, you know, the precursor to Nazi Germany.


And, you know, there's that. And it's not to say that there weren't any problems in, like the Prussian empire or in the German monarchs or anything like that.


But you could go, well, look, they're a bad guy. We're going to get rid of them. It's like, OK, well, look at what you have now.


It's really amazing that we've only dropped two nuclear bombs. The two atomic bombs have gone off for once.


Yeah, it's kind of amazing that no other country has ever done that.


Well, it's also because then the Soviets figured out the nuclear bomb. And then ever since there was more than one country, the only time nukes have ever been dropped is when only one country had strikes.


And so there is something there about like the fact that people are scared to death of someone else also using nukes.


And we've also never been to direct war with a nuclear armed power. Yeah, we don't fuck with people with nukes.


No huge mutually assured destruction. That's real. Oh, yeah.


Really does make people act in a certain way, which is really, you know, in some ways counterintuitive because you think, oh, there's more nukes in the world, there's going to be more nuclear attacks out.


But actually, it turns out that the elites of this world have a lot more in common with each other than they do with me or you.


And so they kind of all have this gentlemen's agreement where it's like, look, we'll have our soldiers go out and kill each other, but let's not do anything that like this.


Like even in the Cold War, they'd be like, we'll fight it out in Vietnam.


Like no one's going to Russia, no one's coming to America. We're not going to actually, you know, do something where we could get fucked over.


What I was getting to is I wonder if that's always going to be the case, because here we are, you know, obviously, 1947, that dropped the bombs. Forty fifty five.


So it's quite a while ago. Yeah.


But not in terms of like the age of the Earth. Not at all. In terms of history.


You know, in historical times, if you look back on, you know, 1745 versus 1820, it doesn't it's not that big of a difference.


It's not that when you go to fifteen forty five to six twenty in your eyes, it's like the same time. Yeah.


Like how that's so there's World War Two vets where I live right now. Fifteen 1014. Forty five to 15, 20 like shit.


It's nothing. Yeah. So. It could happen again. Oh, the way we look at covid now, the way we look at a pandemic now, having just gone through it, we could be looking at a nuclear holocaust the same way we could. We could be looking at someone detonating a bomb in Chicago. Yeah, we could be looking at the possibility that we are really locked down, like there really are draconian measures to ensure safety and security because they have detonated a nuclear bomb in an American city.


Yes, we right now that sounds like horseshit, but the idea of World War Two or World War One would have sounded crazy to people before it happened. Then it really all happened.


And then not only did they go to World War One, then they did it again. 20 years later, they just went up.


We're doing it again, which is for us the year 2000, which is like. Yes, yes, that's right. Yeah. So it really never stopped.


Yeah, that's right. I mean, it's like even when you think about like, you know, like the beef with Iran or something like that, and they'll be like, you know, like the CIA overthrew their government in 1953 and then in 1979, they overthrew that government. And they've basically hated America ever since, you know, like but 1953 to 1979.


That's like Bill Clinton to now. Yeah, like I remember Bill Clinton's presidency.


Yeah. I mean, like, you know, it's a while ago, but it's like, no, if someone like just some other government overthrew Bill Clinton, I'd still remember that right now.


I'd be like, yeah, these motherfuckers came in and like overthrew our government.


It's just so easy for us to get used to what we're used to.


Yeah. Do you ever hear the Albert Einstein quote, which I might butcher, but it was something like he said. He goes, I don't know what weapons will be used to fight World War Three, but World War Four will certainly be fought with rocks and sticks.


Yeah, but something like that, I might be butchering it a little bit, basically, like at this point, we're at a place where we really can't war.


It's war is end game.


I mean, war with like Russia or China or anyone like that. That's even like when people are like, oh, we got to get China back for what they did with this virus. It's like, OK, but.


Our options are limited. Yeah, when you got countries with a whole bunch of bombs, your options are limited as to what you can do.


Putin put World War would wipe out civilization, Putin warned, adding World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones.


Oh, he's dead. Putin just still. I don't think he is probably close to that kind of great.


If Putin was just I just thought of that maybe doing that, like in an homage to Joe Biden, I was kind of invested plagiarizing a bunch of times.


Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's I think our version of what's possible is based entirely on what we've experienced. I mean, just like we never remember those photos of those people with masks on in 1918.


You know, our version of reality pre covid is been forever altered now that we know that it exists. Yeah. And there's so many other things that can happen to us. This is the thing we're so fragile. We always hear about these comments that are whizzing by and these asteroids that get really close to Earth like one of those motherfuckers could slam into us.


And I've had some people on that have studied their whole life versions of these scenarios where civilization has been forced to repeat itself because of the fact that we were hit and that this is probably happened multiple times over the ascension of human civilization, and that it's one of the reasons why you have these ancient structures in Egypt that are very different in the way they are constructed versus the ones from Cleopatra's era or versus the ones from like the when the time when they built the Great Pyramid of Giza.


Right. And isn't there like I remember reading about this like a decade ago, but so I might not know that much about it. But isn't this a bit like the the water erosion on the Sphinx or something like that where they can't figure out how this lines up with the time period? Because they're like this is from like way older. Yeah, you're that great bit about it. And yeah. Talking monkeys in space. But that whole thing that's like.


Yeah, but in all seriousness, it does seem like there's pretty strong indications that civilization is much older than the official history books of like it starts in ancient history. Yeah.


Grahamstown ago, Graham Hancock has spent a giant chunk of his life talking about this and he brought in Dr Robert Schock, who's a geologist from Boston University, and John Anthony West, whose late, great Egyptologist I had on the podcast a couple of times.


And they are all committed to this idea that it's very likely that what we see in Egypt in terms of things that they can date to 2000 B.C., this is just one era and that there's likely multiple areas before that. And the big one, the big piece of evidence is the water erosion in the temple, the great Sphinx, because they know that they cut these stones out in order to create the Sphinx. But there's massive water erosion on these rocks.


And the last time there was significant rainfall in the Nile Valley was 9000 B.C. So instead of 2500 BC, now it's 9000 B.C. And then they have to think, well, this is thousands of years of rainfall that caused this erosion.


So we might be talking 10000, 11000 B.C. So they don't really know when all this happened, but they do think that it coincides with the end of the Ice Age and the end of the Ice Age.


There's a dramatic climate change is somewhere around 12000 years ago and which would put it around 10000 B.C. somewhere around 12000 years ago. This is where Randall Carlson and Graham Hancock and a bunch of others have have really gotten into this Younger Dryas impact theory.


And that is somewhere between 12000 and 10000 years ago.


And it might have been multiple occasions we were hit and that this was a essentially a restart of civilization and a lot of areas and an end to the ice age and a lot of areas as well.


And Randall Karlsson's work is fucking spectacular when he shows you these images that indicate massive melting of ice over a spectacular landscape in a really amazingly short period of time, like a couple days worth of water pouring through fucking trillions of gallons, permanently moving the landscape, changing it, moving stones.


And he has all these images. And what's even crazier is he got this idea when he was looking at this one area on acid once and he was like, what happened here?


And he got this idea. He's like, what is this? And then he starts researching the end of the Ice Age and he starts researching common impacts. And then they start finding all this corresponding evidence in in when they do core samples.


So is doing core samples and they find all this iridium and all this nuclear glass impact glass. They find all this shit around the same area around 12000 years ago. And like, oh, my God.


And so he starts, he's a brilliant guy and he can talk about this forever and they think that it's highly likely that there was not just here, but in many parts of the world, there was massive impacts that probably didn't kill everybody, but probably basically shut down all progress for who knows how many hundreds, if not thousands of years.


And then what you're seeing when you're looking at 2500 B.C. and all these amazing structures was the knowledge they had left and all that. And a lot of that was lost in the Library of Alexandria getting burnt down.


Right. So the stuff that they built later is spectacular, but they had been building pretty amazing shit for most likely thousands of years before we thought they were.


Yeah, maybe we're due for a reset. Well, that's the scary thing, right? This is a really fucking really retarded shit that people are saying that they like. Maybe that's the right thing to do for a nice old fashioned reset.


Well, Douglas Murray, who I heard on the podcast, said that when people in civilization start crumbling, that's when people get obsessed with gender. And I said, Really?


And he goes, yeah, he goes, it's in ancient Rome, in ancient Greece. There's like a lot of transvestites and a lot of people swapping genders. And it's almost like a dissolving of all classifications and barriers and all the things that we took for granted.


A society when society really starts falling apart, they start questioning every last fiber of of what it means to be a person and what it means to fit into the culture.


Well, you know, I like like I became, like, politically radicalized and from Ron Paul's campaign, it's like that's really where I got when I got interested in politics was like around 2007, 2008 when he was running for for president. And I just love still this. They love the guy. I think he's like the greatest hero ever. But he would always talk about how, like, look, we're on basically this path toward national suicide. My words, not his, but he'd be like, we're on this unsustainable path where we're spending way more than we can afford to spend.


We're way too extended militarily. And this is how nations collapse. And this is like it's going to happen if we keep going this way.


So I always kind of had that view in my head and then to see what's happened with all the cultural stuff over the last, you know, like ten years while all of that other stuff is going on, too.


And you're like, this really feels like the end of an end, like a collapsing empire. It really feels like that.


Well, they taught us that in school that all empires eventually collapse, whether it's ancient Greece, ancient Rome, all these empires, empires, they all controlled everything and they all eventually fell apart.


And it's under very similar circumstances, like they're extended too far. They spend themselves too far into debt. They can't maintain it anymore. The culture kind of collapses like decadence and all this other shit. And I guess it does seem like we have a lot of that.


Oh, yeah. Yeah, but but that that isn't necessarily bad. Like sometimes empires collapse and it's actually it's OK for the people in that country.


I mean, like it was OK for England when the British Empire collapsed. I mean, World War Two was bad.


But afterward, you know, there's still an OK country for for the Soviet Union that collapsing was the best thing that ever happened.


You know, that's where those arguments always strange, right? Because that's the same argument they used about Genghis Khan opening up the path for trade. You know, he killed 10 percent of the population.


Well, yes, in the long run. Look, but you got a new rug. Yeah, it's good. You get a nice statue.


You know who would really love this rug? He's dead.


Oops. Again, it does Rand Paul share most of Ron Paul's ideas? Hmm, I don't know, I mean, I think probably a lot, you know, he's his his son. I know Ron Paul made him read all the right stuff growing up, you know, but he definitely has some areas of disagreement.


And he's also just a different I think he's a different person and is different, you know, strengths and weaknesses and wasn't quite as charismatic, wasn't as charismatic, wasn't as much of a happy warrior.


Ron Paul was really he really enjoyed going out there and telling people the truth as he saw it and talking to people and just and he didn't really care if, you know, it was always kind of like Ron Paul would say things at the Republican debates and it'd be like, hey, look, you guys might boo me out of the arena and that's fine.


I'm going to go home to my family. And I told the truth. It's the truth whether you like it or not. And that's fine. You can do that.


And I'll leave. And Rand always I think it bothered him a little bit more. And but, you know, Rand is, I think for to me, like one of the best senators and I think he's done a lot.


He did a lot to really push Donald Trump on the the criminal criminal justice reform.


He's tried his best to push him on ending the wars.


I don't know how successful he's been at that, but but I don't know that he's going to inspire people in the same way his father did.


I hope he does. Hmm. Someone has to. But isn't that what we're always looking for, we're always looking for a hero when really we need decentralized government?


Well, yeah, but that doesn't that doesn't mean you can't have leaders or somebody who like kind of which was leaders or done with leaders.


Dave, you tried it out. It doesn't work well, but I don't mean there's a difference between leaders and rulers. Right. Like you don't want a ruler. Right. But there's there's people who inspire you, who you learn from and stuff like that.


You want to you want a leader that doesn't want to be a ruler. Yes, exactly. That's what Ron Paul was. Yeah.


Isn't that the problem, though? The problem is they get into power like this is one we're seeing with low level people like like governors, like the worst governors.


They just you know, there's all these lawsuits against Newsom and he lost one of them recently because he's an autocrat. Now he's telling people what they can do is writing legislation.


Did you see when Tucker Carlson had Governor Murphy from New Jersey on his show and he and it was it was like right at the height of covid, like I think it might have been in May or something like that, but it was still like, you know, pretty new. No, I didn't see it.


And so, like, everyone's no one's given I hadn't seen one tough interview with one of these governors. Like, every time they came on some news show, it was just like, oh, my God, you're saving all these lives and you're wonderful and thank you for all of this. And then they have their press conferences. They take some questions.


But it wasn't Tucker just starts grilling this guy and he asked him at one point he goes, OK, so recently there was like a church service that you shut down and you arrested four Jewish people for being at temple. And there's that.


And he goes, what right do you have to do that? Because, I mean, in the Bill of Rights, it's very clearly defined that the right to religious, you know, expression is, you know, it seems like so.


So where do you get the authority to shut down a place of worship?


And he goes he goes, well, you know, we weren't thinking about the Bill of Rights when we did this. We're just trying to keep people safe. And then he goes, he was like, yeah, but where do you get the authority? And he goes, Well, that's above my pay grade, you know, like, you know, Governor, that's exactly your pay grade.


That's that's exactly what you're paying. But so that's just like that's the mentality that swept over these people.


It's a lot it reminds me a lot of the George W. Bush mentality of like, you know, instituting torture and all these other things.


It's like, well, what about laws against this? It's like 9/11, man. Right? I don't know about laws and rules, but fuckin we're here. Yeah. And so we're, you know, like we they feel like because this thing happened, I don't have to worry about silly little things like the fucking Bill of Rights. Who's got time for that?


We've got to be careful. They don't pass an act and give it a good name like the Patriot Act. Exactly like you can't be a non patriot.


A piece of shit passed the Patriot Act. They if they come up with something like the Safety Act, let's keep grandma alive act.


They do this all the time now. But for this one, did you see about the the anti lynching bill? There was like an anti lynching bill and they would blast people for being like silly shows against someone like Rand Paul.


He was one was he voted against the anti lynching bill. And you're like, OK, wait.


First of all, what else was in there? Isn't lynching already illegal? Yeah, like, so so explain to me what exactly was it? And then it turns out that Rand Paul's problem was that this is like he goes this like really broadly defines what a hate crime is. And now it seems that like if someone were to, like, get in a bar fight, you could, like, give them like twenty years under, like, some hate crime legislation.


It's like, let's slow down on that. That seems a little crazy.


Like but and then they're like, you're just for lynching. It's like, wait, this is really weird.


Did you can just name a bill something and then say if you're for it, but you know, Patriot Act, all the shit. Yeah.


They, they should not be able to name bills, provocative names. They should just have numbers. Yes. You know, and that's it. You only get a number, you can get a name. Names have a lot of shit attached to them. Yeah, absolutely. Especially anti lynching.


But there's and there's all but even like, you know, they call Obamacare the Affordable Care Act, everything they put is like this nice thing that nobody could possibly be against.


Why would you be against affordable care?


What do you hate people on, bro? That people. That's it. What's wrong with you? Yeah, Dave. Listen, I think we fucking covered it all, we fixed everything, did we know where was that? Was that like around a half hour, 20 minutes ago, 20 minutes?


That was the exact moment we nailed everything when we just did like three and a half hours.


How long we do? Well, you guys were talking before we started. OK, three hours, three hours for three hours lose all sense of time flies by in here.


I just No.


One, I really have to let everybody know your Twitter, Instagram, all that jazz.


My Twitter is at comic Dave Smith. The podcast is part of the problem. And the Legion of Skanks, of course. And Twitter. I mean, Instagram. They just started me an account at the problem. Dave Smith on Instagram at the problem. It's or the problem. Dave Smith, your problem is that was going on. I think so. I don't run it. But they put clips out of some of the gas digital people started it for me because I'm retarded and don't have an Instagram 20/20.




How did you not have an Instagram? I don't know. I'm just like, I can't do any more social media. I just I you know. Well, that's why you're so good at these fucking conversations because you're actually paying attention to shit.


I spend too much time on Twitter. There it is. Yeah. The problem, Dave Smith, I got a thousand followers. I got no followers on there. Well, we just started up a pump you up.


There you go. Follow me on Twitter. I got a little bit of followers on their is dying.


The president's going to kill us. Last days in office, I heard that.


Would that be something now? It's just a war of who can kill him first or the president just makes it Twitter illegal.


The last few days in office has caused more harm than good. It's over.


But then Twitter blocked his tweet saying that it's illegal. So no one knows. It's just a war of Jack Dorsey and Donald Trump and fuck you, you're on the way out.


Biden's like, I support Twitter and I'm going to where I'm asking my profile that he's like someone tell me what Twitter is. My profile, my, my, my, my. I'm heehaw, my pronouns. All right, Dave.


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