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With your first purchase, it's up to a year's supply of vitamin D immune boosting vitamin D combined with their daily greens. That is some serious nutritional insurance. So go to athletic Greens Dotcom Rogen to claim the special offer today. My guest today, well, we have two guests. One stop by because he was in the neighborhood and he traveled with the other guest. What am I I'm keeping it a secret. My guest today is Willie D from the Ghetto Boys, who I've been a fan of since the 80s.

And I got a chance to hang out with him in Houston a few months back and had the pleasure of being with him on a podcast today. And Mike Judge, who's a friend, Willie's and I've met Mike in the past and he's a great guy and he lives in Austin, too. And so together. So Mike was on for a little while and then Willie for the end. If you are getting this podcast in audio form, there was a glitch in the video form.

The good thing about if you get an audio form, you're not going to notice. But about an hour and a half in the hard drive, there was a fuckup. So we got an hour and a half of the podcast on video and the whole thing on audio. Yeah, it sucks, but it is what it is. And it was a great conversation and I hope you enjoy it. I absolutely did. And we'll do it again.

So please welcome Mike Judge and Willie D, my pastor now the Joe Rogan Experience train my day job and podcast my life all day.

Willie D and Mike Judge together at last. Good to see you, man. Absolutely.

You're the first guy in the studio to bring his own headphones. The first guy ever in 1500 shows.

Is that right? Yeah. Oh, man. Well, you know that where there's a will, there's a way. Well, they fit to they're they're they're they're unique. Right. And Mike, you just happened to be rolling with Willie. So you're here today as well. Yes. Thanks for having me. My pleasure, man.

I wanted to get a hold of you and find the good spots in Austin anyway. Man, you've been here for a long time, right?

Yeah, since 94. And I'd come down here a lot before that. I lived in Dallas. What's going on with Beavis and Butthead? It's it's coming back. It really is. Yeah. In fact, that's why I'm going to have to split in a little while for some Zoome meetings. But yeah, no, it really is.

Yeah, we're doing a. I think I think it's going to be good to have a gigantic fan of Beavis and Butthead right around the time I started smoking pot was when I really got into Beavis and Butthead at the same time.

Yeah, a lot of we had a lot of stoners that liked it. Also a lot of people talking about it, like watching it after you come home from a bar, that sort of thing.

Yeah, it was one of the silliest shows ever and ridiculous.

Now everyone will be drinking at home and getting stoned. Well, you always get stoned at home and really stoned everywhere.

I've been a fan of the ghetto boys since the very beginning. So when I when I first met you and used it, I rarely geek out. But when I met you, I did.

When I used to deliver newspapers, I used to listen to ghetto as well as deliver newspapers.

I didn't know you delivered. Newspapers have something in common that we got something else. And you did that too. Well, I delivered newspapers and I also so do the descriptions for the Houston Chronicle. No kidding.

Yeah, I did The Boston Globe and The Boston Herald. When did you guys start? When the ghetto boys start up.

The incoordination that everybody know right now is myself. Scarface in Bushwick would really read. We started in 89, but the group actually was formed in 87.

Wow. That's man 1980, because you got to think like when was Sugarhill Gang, that was 81, 83, 83. Yeah, dude, you know, no, no, no more than less. Oh, no, no, you get 79. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And high school. Yes, 79.

So you there in the earliest days of hip hop? Yeah, that's an amazing thing to be a part of.

Like when an art form emerges, you know, there's like how how many people can say that they were there when an art form emerged? Yeah.

As a fan, I was like because I was into blues, but that was all before I was born. And and then when this stuff was happening, while we're alive watching it, it was just really cool to see.

I was in Jamaica Plain. I was I guess I was in like seventh grade or something like that in Jamaica Plain was a suburb of of Boston. And I was in school and some kid had a beat box that he brought to school and he was playing Sugarhill Gang.

I've never I'll never forget this. I was like, wow, that's different. Yeah. And that was the beginning. And it should be a gay man. I remember I used to play football for it, but HESTA House was it's a community center in Fifth Ward and. I used to play for the Houston Cowboys. Go figure. Right. So. We we played in the Astrodome. I was a big deal, you know, with what he snowless played at.

And so I remember being on the bus and the whole team singing that song. They played a song and everybody was singing it word for word. That's my greatest experience. When I think about that song, like everybody knew everything, I mean, you had to know the word every single word to the song or else he wasn't cool. It was kind of like knowing every single word to most done freestyle, you know, by zero in Houston. Like, if you don't know that song, what song?

You're not you're not a Houstonian. I'm not aware of it. Yeah, it's yeah, it's it's a song by zero zero. He's done some collaborations with ghetto boys, but he I mean he stands on his own. He's huge throughout, you know, throughout the south mainly do go platinum in the south by myself, you know, just just to s zero. If you're not up on it, man, get up on it, man. I have to get up on enough, get audiences over.

He'll most likely get up on it. Yeah. Yeah.

But you were there like you were there when hip hop was also getting censored to remember those the Tipper Gore days, like a lot of people don't remember Al Gore.

So why can't stand your girl, don't get your head knocked off like Daniel Pearl. And from what I hear on the streets, you, a big old freak, would give you credibility to Peterborough police show up as a Chris Impetuous as a as the Middle East Sidonie. You can forget.

Hey, but I had it, man. I had for a moment people forgot that Al Gore's wife was trying to censor hip hop.

Yeah.

People you know, a lot of times people think of like the right wing as being the people that try to censor speech.

But back then, it was Tipper Gore that was on this.

She was on this mission. Yeah. What was it? Parents for music. Something censorship. Yeah, there were several of there was morality in media. Yeah, that's right.

They went after Beavis and Butthead do well then after two live crew, like that's when things got serious because that actually went to court. That was crazy.

Like people who don't remember, like, you know, there's there's some people in this country that are.

They were on the front line censorship and two live crew was one of the big ones. Yeah, like they they went to court in Florida, Broward County and Broward County. They could they have crazy laws in Florida. They put people in jail for all kinds of weird shit. And they just decided that that was obscene.

Yeah, yeah. They they made a move on us for a little bit.

So. Yeah. Just so it's not OK. Yeah. So yeah, they tried to make that move on us and. We would define to the end, man, like I remember going to one city and we stood on stage and he was like, Yeah, you can't play because we had planned on going.

This was in Florida. I can't remember exactly what city it was, but we went there and our goal was to play no matter what. We was going to rap lyrics exactly as they were. And we get there and then they say, well, the city has changed their mind. You can't play at all. So they got us on that one. So you had to shut down the show? Yeah, we couldn't do it at all. I the Ghetto Boys was was the first group.

To have a manufacture. Declined to say that, you know, declined the distribution of our music is the first group in music history where a manufacturer said, we're not going to press which album that was the Ghetto Boys self-titled album.

Wow. Yeah, that was 92. That was the Rick Rubin remake. So we did the it was the grip it on that other level album. Right. So it was like a remake of that with two extra songs that Rick Rubin produced. And the other songs were like songs that he kind of just kind of remixed a little bit, but they had the same sound for the most. So some sonically they were pretty much the same, but that was two new songs added.

So that's when we changed the name of the group to get the spelling of the group Ghetto from G.H. Yo.

But yeah, you know, the funny thing was that we went funny at the time, but we still ain't funny.

You know, these this Geffen Records. David Geffen, he decided that he was not going to distribute our music, but he was cool with distributing Andrew Dice Clay and Guns and Roses and you know, you know what type of music these guys were doing at that time. We're talking about 1990, you know, so, of course, I mean, we we was like, oh, man, this is this is censorship.

And we know why weren't we? You know, we know. Yeah.

You know, so so we we hit that's when we came with the we can't be stopped down that album cover.

Yeah. Yeah. Jesus Christ. We see Bush with Bill with a patch over his eye. Yeah. In the hospital gurney and you guys are rolling with him behind and that's the album cover. Look at that. Yeah. I mean come on.

That is classic. Yeah. Yeah.

That is a classic album cover that can't be stopped and push on the old school cell phone, the brass and that's done. That was done like. Totally, spontaneously. Wow. We didn't we it was totally unplanned because we had finished the album and then Bush would get shot and this would happen. This would happen a lot would feel like Bill could get a job done and like if he had something made to do, get it done. But then after to get it done.

You know, as something starts going on, some stuff just starts happening. So we had finished the album and, you know, get a call.

Bill got shot. Go to the hospital. Immediately, in my mind, is my cowboy Western days, me, mind you. I'm thinking events like, oh, who shot him, you know, like, let's get him. So I get to the hospital, I go into the room and Bill is laying there and he's kind of he's dazed. But he's conscious and he's like. Well. Don't hurt her. I made her do it. How's your Bush with Bill Impression?

I know. So wrong. So good at it. So, so so that was that, you know, I checked on him. He was good. He's going to survive. He lost his eye, but he's going to survive.

How did he make or shoot them? He said that they were arguing this is Bill's version, that they were arguing over something and he was mad. So he pulled out a gun and he threatened to throw the baby downstairs and then. He has the gun and the girlfriend is like. They're tussling over the gun and so bills like, shoot me, shoot me, shoot me, this is what he said that he told her.

So the gun goes off. Be a good shot. Not now. No, I'd be like, I know being. I know and purposely shoot himself and have anyone shoot him in a building, just like walking on the edge, you see, you walk, that is like I do what I do what I do it. Oh, shit.

Sam, you know, so that's what I believe happened. But you say, you know, he made a shooter, so. Get to the hospital and. We go downstairs and Cliff Blodget is there, and at the time, Cliff is the co-owner of Rap Alat Records and Cliff say, you know, everybody you know, we have a meeting in the lobby and the appears, OK, you're going to survive.

You know, that was our first. You know, everybody just wanted him to be OK. He's safe. He survived. Cliff, Cliff, say back to Cliff, like, OK, so what what what are we going to do about the album cover? And I say, well, we can shoot it. Your life, so so Cliff is like, well, how are we going to do that?

I say I say, man, we just go out there and shoot it. He said, Well, who's going to ask?

I ask him. So I went up there and I was like, beer.

You're a state man.

We we won't shoot this album cover man you down, but it was like. I don't care. Yeah, he's a yeah. Went back down and told him it was a go. Me and Brad went upstairs, Cliff went to his car, got the camera, we went. We went upstairs and back to the room, the nurse put Bill on another gurney. And me and Brad rode him down the hall, so the nurse was in a nurse New Year.

There it is.

We wrote them down a hall and we didn't roll in for I mean, like maybe the room was, like, right behind us to the to the right. Whose idea was it for him to be holding the phone? I don't know.

But I know, Chief, was that to our old manager? So I don't know if Chief told me, you know, Brad phone. I don't know.

But was the hat already on him? No, he put that out too. So, yeah, I think that was chief idea to put the props on. But he started rolling down the hallway and the shot the pitch. And that's how you got to cover.

Wow. One of my great regrets is not having him on the podcast. He was reached, they reached out. Whoever was representing him reached out. And I had, you know, my ticket. I booked it myself. I do it on my phone. So I have months in advance. I'm trying to coordinate shit. And it took a couple of weeks for me to find a date and I got a hold of them again. But then he was sick.

Yeah, he was real sick.

He was in the hospital and they said he couldn't travel anymore. Right.

And shortly after he died, yeah, it it happened fast. Like once he started once he made the announcement, his health.

Was it pancreatic cancer really fast, I think. Was it. Yeah, I think it was one of those ones.

Yeah, it was. It was pancreatic. That's one of those wanted kids. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's a bummer.

How did you guys all get together. Very carefully, so I started off as a solo artist. I was writing some songs for the Ghetto Boys new album. This is the first time we're not even the first incarnation of Geto Boys, but this is like one of the and kind of one of the incarnations. So the group has changed members several times.

But by the time that I wrote these songs for the group, they had changed members maybe about three times. So he jacks me. Jay Prince asked me to write some some songs for the new album, and I wrote. Let a hole be a hole and do it like a geo. Prince Janisse didn't want to perform those songs, but he didn't want to perform later Holby. He was married, by the way. I quote that. I quote you.

I told you when I met you as one of them, I said that on the podcast at least 30 times. Yeah. Whenever someone says, let me quote the great Willie D, you got to let a hole be a top man.

That goes a long way. And that's male and female. Yes, yes, yes, yes. I'm glad you said that. Yeah. So. I write songs. They give them an ultimatum, look, man, you perform these shows or go solo, but this is a direction I'm taking the group. Prior to that. The first incarnation of the ghetto boys had more like a Run DMC style of rap. They wanted more southern A's town, Houston experience.

So that's what I gave him and he liked it. The people around him liked it and he decided I'm going to take the group in this direction. So when he gave the ultimatum. Janisse decided that he didn't want to do it, but he did perform on the original do it like a goat named.

Jukebox decided that he wanted to do so. The first day of going into the studio to to create this new group and this new sound, I didn't know. Brad scoffs I didn't know him at all. I met Bill before because me and Bill had a run in before, so I had met him before. I didn't really meet them. What kind of running? Well, it was a physical altercation.

I've heard it was good, but that happened and, you know, that was water under the bridge as far as I was concerned.

We're Jay comes to me one night and I'm kind of skipping around a place because I got to I'm trying to piece it together so you can make as best as I can to make sense. OK, so Jay comes to my house one night. He said, look, man, I want you. I got an idea.

I want you to be in the ghetto boys. I guess this when he's having this problem with Janisse dropping out, he's trying to figure out what he's going to do with the group. So he comes to me one day, say, I got an idea. I want you to get a bus now. I want to be in a group. And he was like, you know, you know, this is what I want to do. I said, Yeah, I want to be in a group.

And he was like. I would do it for me. So. I looked at it like GE was invested in my dream of becoming a rapper. So when he said it like that, he convinced me. And I was like, OK, I'll do it, but after I do it, I'm going back solo. So my time in the Ghetto Boys was supposed to be temporary all along. So I agreed to do it and he told me, he said, I got this other boy on only on the south side named Jay Action, that's who everybody know is Scarface now.

He said, I got Digex and I want to put you out and group you. Scarface, where he said Action and jukebox. I'll be the new Geto Boys. So that's the group. He come to pick me up, he's an Astro van. Scarface is in the Scarface, a.k.a. action, he's in the Van Pito, his producers in the van. Really rare ideas in the van Bushwick is in the van because he's hanging out, you know, as Jay Buddy, so he's just hanging out and.

I hop in. I see if I'm missing anybody. So Jay, Beto, Brad. Bill read Jukebox and Me, we're all in the van, we're going to make this album. We don't even know the title of that. We just want to go make an album, we go out to Jay's ranch about an hour from my house. We get there, and I think the first the second night jukebox decided that he was going to quit the group.

Now, from what I understood from the conversation, was that. He was having. Cute twins is something of a baby or something, and this woman wanted him to get a real job. So he quit the group. So now we decide, OK, it's going to be me and Scarface is us at this time, he still Jackson, so it's me in action and reiterated that idea. So maybe like the second day or something. I'm in a studio.

And Richard is making music and stuff. And Imbil. Is rap in Public Enemy cell? Yes, the rhythm, the rebel without a pause. I'm a lawyer my level, so I look. And he's going to 40 hours, too. He got a 40 and a light comes on. I say, let's put beer in a group, let's give beer to take jukebox plays.

So everybody start laughing. I say, yes, that's what they were going to do.

But they don't stop laughing when they hear this gangsta shit, I'm a rifle. So. I said, Jay, I say, let me write them, I say, if you do it, is he in the group? And Jay was like. And I don't know, man B, what you think, because I don't know, but I can try.

Wow.

I took me to the to the kitchen and we said at the Breakfast Club, I made as a breakfast go. We said at the breakfast table, I asked him some questions about himself and I embellished it with what I thought it might be like to to walk in his shoes. And I came up with sizing shit. Three days later, he recorded it. That's how Bill became a rapper and that's how he became a ghetto boy.

Wow. So a lot of people don't know that you were right. All that shit.

Yeah, I. I was on getable records, I would say 70, 80 percent of everything ever came out of bushwack mouth came out of my head first. It's crazy that you saw him rapping and the light went off and that formed the Ghetto Boys, this is like one of those stories. Yeah. He was only a dancer first, right? Yes, he would break dance at the shows. Yeah. And so, like, he wasn't like Bill actually was opening like like an opening act for the ghetto boys prior to becoming an actual rapper.

Remember, he was on the cover.

The first album, but he wasn't an unofficial member of the group. He didn't have a contract. He was just there for aesthetic purposes.

So he performed.

I mean, he performed before the group would come out. He would warm the crowd up. He danced, you know, lability, scarves. They called them little Billy and he would dance. And so after he do his thing, then the group would come out and start rapping. So that was his role at first. And he wasn't going to have that in our group who going to have like a dancer in our group.

But once, Bill. Became a rapper. Which they were less utilize his dance skills, so we would have put in the show what Bill would, you know, do a lap dance in his stuff. But if you listen to that first album that he made Scarface and really made. That album, Bill, is only only like maybe four songs. That's because he came in late and those songs originally wasn't for him. That's why he's only like I think we did maybe we did 12 songs and he's on it, maybe he's on like maybe five songs or something.

I can't remember the dude who quit was his name again. Jukebox. How does Jukebox feel about all this?

When you guys blew up, he had to be like, fuck.

Yeah, well, you know, you got to ask him how you feel. But, you know, look, I've seen a number of people go through that in this business. I've been in the game 31 years, so I've seen really, really talented people.

Who? Are not making money initially, it's not happening fast enough. Yeah, and I've seen dudes not make it in this game because the woman told them you need to get a real job. Yeah, look, we got to baby, look, keep coming back.

Here you go in a studio, spending all this time hanging out, wrapping and all you need to get a job and wanted to do it was this white white guy.

He's probably a fan of your podcast, little kid. Man, when I met him, he was like 17 years old.

He wrapped like two short. Cold blooded, think of a white do rapping like two shot, and he was authentic with it. Doh, doh, doh. So. I was going to put him on an. We had the meeting, he didn't show up. He didn't show up for me, and then he gives me the story, the sob story about his girl, this and this and that or whatever. And then so maybe six months later.

We try to get. And then something else came up and then I cut him off after that, so fast forward, I seen him about maybe three years after that, and he tells me that he's working at some grocery store, stocking groceries, and he got a baby with the girl, but she's gone now. So. This is a cautionary tale, and this is the reason why I'm telling it, is because that could have been me when I was.

Twenty twenty one twenty twenty one twenty two, that was good, I really, really liked that, you know, I was dating her and. And she made me work for it, you know, I had to work to get in the door, so I liked it. You know, I don't know, under. Mm hmm. When I would write, I would put a sign on the door, do not disturb and I would unplug the phone.

I would give myself five minutes to dedicate toward my craft every single day, no matter what was going on in my life, didn't matter if I was broke, didn't matter if that was a death in the family, didn't matter if I was in a bad mood, didn't matter if I was going out that night. What? It didn't matter. Five minutes minimum. That means research. Planning, plotting, writing, doing something. Towards my goal.

I would unplug that phone and she would try to call me and can reach me, so one day she would get on the phone. She said, I think we need to break up because. You don't have time for me. So I tried to explain it to her, but she wouldn't listen, but I was OK with it because I had made my mind up well before that, that I was not going to let anything get in the way of me becoming a successful rapper.

So that meant everybody I meant any family members, friends, girlfriend, whatever, because I just felt like that rap was going to last longer.

My music, my talent was going to last longer. My gift was going to last longer than any relationship. Where'd you get this belief in yourself?

Does this come from boxing? Because a lot of people don't know you're a really good boxer. Yeah. And I remember there was a we talked about this when I met you that one of the things that I didn't know that you were a boxer until I saw that rapper versus rapper boxing event they put on. And you was it Marley Ma.

Marley, Melly, Mel. Yeah.

Forgot who it was. Yeah. You fucked that dude up. That was that was wrong.

Like that was whatever whoever set that up.

Well it was either him or me. I understand. But it wasn't either him or you.

Before that though hadn't anyone. A bunch of those.

That's mine. I'm not sure. But when you watch this look at the way he's holding his hands and look at Willie, this is not this. This is a terrible fight.

Like if I was in the guy's corner to throw in the towel as soon as I saw him holding his hands up, it wasn't one of my greatest my greatest exhibitions, but it was effective, you know.

Well, you could tell right away that you really knew how to box. But he was Mel was unorthodox. So so it was kind of like it was it took longer to really, like zeroing in on what I wanted to do with him.

Well, he's a big, strong guy when you see him moving and you could tell he's athletic and he hits hard and.

But you were setting it up. Wasn't he known for street fights, he said, or something like, you see, there's a lot of people that are known for street fights. Can you fight in the streets? A lot of times you're fighting people that don't actually know how to fight. But me, as a person who was a fight fan, who had done martial arts my whole life, I was looking at Willis like he knows how to fight.

Like you could just see by the way you're moving. That's it, not not some good camera work, but but clear. Yeah, yeah, it was a clean punch. So, so male. For like maybe five years, him and his manager would call and say, we want a rematch. And I was like, you know, like the first one was for charity. You know, I'm I have to get paid if you want to. You know, you want to get your you want to get that restored.

You don't have to pay for it. You know, I'm not going to do it for free, but. The look, when I when I look back and I wish it was somebody else, that that that that I had the squabble with, right. Because Mel is a good dude. I like me. I like his team. I like his people, a good people. So but, you know, for a while. But he's going back and forth.

I was like, man, you know, I know what I know what happened and I know what you want to do. It's so if you want if you want to get back in the good graces, knock out artist, you have to you have to pay for that. So we never could, you know, work out a number that you had a legit boxing pass, though.

Yeah. What was your what was your boxing history?

You'd won Golden Gloves of 84.

Yeah. Texas. Yeah. So you had a how much how many fights did you have. 30 to see that. There's no substitution for that.

There's no substitution for that. If you've actually been in there thirty two times and you got a guy who's good at fighting, I'm sure he's a tough guy. But that's a mismatch.

As a when you had that kind of discipline that had to play a part in Europe career, because to get that good as a boxer, you got to put that time in.

When you don't want to, you have to grind.

Yeah. You know, my greatest motivation was just. Change in my lifestyle. Because I come from insufficient. Insufficient living. Insufficient. Love, insufficient clothing, insufficient housing, you know, insufficient.

Care, everything was insufficient. Except the bad stuff. I want it out. It's like I got to change this trajectory, I don't like it and I'm not going to bring my children into this world like this. I'm not going to bring my children and put my children at a social disadvantage. So this is why I was very important for me to get some money first before I started having children. You know, and if somebody is already in that position, then it's already happened and he didn't plan it out right away.

But as soon as you can, you got to get it right. You've got to make it right, because children don't ask to come into this world and you bring these children to this world and a world of insufficient, you know, living even in an insufficient love is even worse. Because if you've got sufficient love, love will make you grind so hard, you get it, you know, because once you give life, life is bigger than yours.

And I'm children, you realize is more important than whatever it is that you want to do. And you look at and really when you put that energy into that and you let that be your driving force, you actually become a greater person because you decide because you're your motivation is bigger than you, is greater than you. You may you may sometimes wake up and don't want to do it. But because you love those babies so much, I got I got to do it sometimes you might want to snap, sometimes you won't tell about me, kiss my ass, go to hell.

You know, if you want to go off on about and you'll be thinking about them kids like we now can't do that.

Right. Where did you get this wisdom from when you were young and you were you were experiencing these hard times, how did you meet? A lot of people make the same mistakes. Their parents make the same mistakes other people around them make. It's very few people that dig their heels in the ground and go, no, no, no, this shit stops with me. Yeah. How did you where did you get the wisdom?

I just kind of like it was a lot of it was trial and error, baptism to fire a lot of it. I just out. I listen to Stevie Wonder's music, very inspirational Stevie Wonder music, very like, very inspirational, probably saved my life. I watched manly examples like examples of fatherhood like. James Evans from Good Times. Yes, John Amos, I met John Edwards at the Comedy Store, is that right? Oh, he was cool as fuck.

Yeah, yeah. He's a real cool dude. I need to meet him. That's one of the things like as one of the people, you know, in this in this game that I like to to meet one day, he's so. Yeah.

So down to earth, so natural. When you talk to him, he grabs his laugh and he's he's great. Yeah.

Well, it was him. It was watching his example of fatherhood, his undying love that he had for his children, his and his wife. He was a man. When you went to the Evans house, you knew it was a man on the other side of that door. You couldn't just come in and do whatever you wanted to do and mess with his family or whatever it was a man on the other side of that door.

Isn't it crazy that sitcoms like that can they can have so much value, even though was an entertainment show for a lot of people? You look at that guy and you say, that's who I want to be. I want I want to aspire to have that kind of family. I would like there's an example of a man. Yeah. Even though it's a comedy.

Right. And. You're right about that, man. The only thing that I wanted to make sure that. I did not repeat was the cycle of not ever making it out because James never made it out. He thought he died, right. You know, he got a new job and went out. I think he got killed.

They killed them off like like an accident in the snow snowstorm, knowing this official when he killed them off because he didn't like the direction the show was going in.

They you know, he was doing a lot of. He didn't like the. It had a lot to do with the the Jimmy Walker character, you know, the you know, quite frankly, was a lot of buffoonery, right?

I thought it was getting too broad, too big. And what he thought I know might stuff. Yeah, exactly. The dynamite and stuff and all that. And he wanted he wanted to have more social stuff. He thought that that they could continue that that trend of making funny stuff, but also being socially astute. Hmm. And they you know, they just couldn't see eye to eye.

Well, Jimmy Walker, at the time, if you remember, he was a gigantic character. He was huge.

He was that dynamite that haunted him forever. You know, Jimmy became a comic, right? We would see Jimmy at the Laugh Factory and he was always doing standup. And people demanded that he say dynamite. Yeah, it was a trap.

Yeah, it was. It was, man. But it was to me the greatest sitcom ever, because it's really it really helped shape my life as a type of person that I became. So now along the way, you know, I was like I say, it was baptism. Through fire, I I made a lot of mistakes along the way, but one of the things that I try to do is not repeat the same mistakes. I am not going to ever be perfect.

I don't aspire to be perfect. But what I do aspire to do is learn from my mistakes and not make the same mistakes. Oh, I got some more mistakes to make.

What makes a few more big ones before I get a body, you know, you know, but at the same but not the same one.

And I will grow. I will grow. And I think.

But I think that. I got through and I think I was spared, you know, I think it was part of it was my my my will to leave my mark. And then a lot of it was luck and then the rest of it was favor. Well, you know, I think it's amazing what you're doing because I think what happened with you, with watching good times, your you know, I know you know this, but your social media presence and what you put out there like.

You're a man, you know, I'm saying like you're a man of your word, you stand for things.

And when you you put these things, when you call people out on their bullshit and you call men out on their weakness, you're setting examples that a lot of young guys are seeing and they're looking at you as a guy who not just get out, not just got out, left his mark, but evolved.

Right, evolved as a man, you know, when you were running for what were you running for? City council.

And, you know, you and I had a conversation about it you like. Well, my past came back to haunt me.

You know, this this is one of like people have to have a past, like and a guy like you who has a past is. More valuable, a guy who gets it, who can show people like just because you fucked up, just because you've done dumb shit or you're in a bad situation when you were younger, it doesn't that doesn't define you, right.

Who you are now is who you are. Right. I like to tell people my past. Don't define me a refund. Me. I see, because. Is so much that I see I have foresight now, so much that I see that I've seen, I've witnessed, I've done myself personally or, you know, I've been very, very close to the action.

And I'm an odds man. I said, well, you know, if you do this, then more likely this will be the outcome. Yeah, that's why I never joined a gang. Because I was like, not that I didn't do anything wrong, but I felt like if I'm going to do something wrong, I trust me to not snitch me out.

So the best reason I'm telling a story that I tell your story I've never, never told publicly.

In the. Mid 80s. There was some cap killings in Houston that it was killing cab cab drivers, right? The guys who were involved, who started it came to my house first to get me to go with them, to hit a lick we put in the hood, you know, like everybody need money, some of us. We're not going to eat. You know, if we don't go out and kill something, not literally kill a person, but kill something, you know, so that we can.

That we can. Nourish our bodies, right? It came to me. I mean, look for me to go do this one on. And I look out and I see light is to do that, I wanted to catch that, you know, in the neighborhood that. Tough guy. And then as I look out and I see like three other dudes with whom I have not asked him any, do you know, Doozer, if he would have had that many people with him, I probably would win with him more if it would have just been him and another cat.

All right, I probably will win. I don't know. But he had like three other dudes with him. And. The next morning, I hear a cab driver, old black dude in the neighborhood where he was from the neighborhood, but they killed him in the neighborhood. And the elderly do, and they only took like 30 something bucks, man. And so I know that's what happened, right.

So then over the next, like maybe three weeks, four more cab drivers get killed. I know. Pretty good, pretty good idea who's doing this right, because I'm not the only one that knows. Is other people that know these guys and they're talking. So there's murmurs in the streets. About this happening, so then they get caught up. And each of these guys they end up with, the one that got the last years, was like 15 years old.

These guys were minors, except the main one. They were 14, like 19 years old, so they end up with a minimum 15 years and then that one got to Max was like 40 years. So my life would have been very, very much different had I walked out that door that night. Wow, that's a sure. So, yes, I could see a lot of things happening, like I can, you know, like experience, you know, I can I can see a lot of things happening from my own experience, but other people's experience, too.

And I personally do believe that experience is not the best teacher. Other people's experience is the best teacher. Because if I see. You go out and if you walk around the corner. And you come back running back, bleeding profusely, I mean, these guys are going to stab me, man. Why would I run my around the corner and stab you, right? What's going to happen to me? Right. What was likely to happen to me?

What could happen to me if I go around that same corner and stab me next?

So, no, I'm not going around a corner. I'm going in the opposite direction. Directions, in fact, given by me, man, because they might come stab you again and get me while I'm with you. Yeah, I think you're right.

I think you can learn from both, but you can learn the terrible lessons from other people that are having to do it without ever having to do it.

If you stick your hand in a fire and it burned you. Why the hell would I stick my head in that fire and let it burn me unless I want to be burned? So that's why, you know, these these. The gang thing, you know, I could never get with it, I've never been a gang member, so I don't know who these guys be thinking. I don't know what would they be thinking, man? But I just don't see an upside to it.

I just it has a terrible retirement plan.

You know, most of the dudes most are dudes are killed before they're 30, are maimed. They have extensive criminal history. They're. Their opportunities are severely limited because of the record. People are afraid to do business with them, you know, it's just way too much.

And I just feel I just feel like, you know, well, I'm just going to go and avoid it. Plus, I'm a black man in America. It's all kind of ways to get killed in here. It's all kind of ways to die already.

All right. OK. Besides, like, you know, like natural stuff like. Natural death, diabetes, cancer, lupus, you know, obesity, all these type of things, right, that can kill you, stroke.

You got accidents, you know, I get hit by a car or something like that, you got domestic disputes. Why would I say, you know what? I need one more thing, God help me rush dead. I got to get that baby. I got to get that. I've got a job to get.

I'm trying to eliminate the things know that can that can kill me. I'm trying to avoid those type of things. Why would I want right in to something?

But again, a lot of people do like what? What where did you get the wisdom? Like the way you think right now. Have you always thought this way where you plot ahead and look at things like you're playing 3-D chess?

I did to an extent, but I got a lot better at it. In my 20s, like late 20s, I got really better. And the reason why I say that is because the true part about it is that, like, there are dudes that are my age that tell me, man, you like a big brother to me, you know, because I've been knowing them since we were like teenagers or early 20s or whatever and. I've always been just a few steps ahead in and, you know, seeing what was going on, yeah.

You know, watching, you know, so but I still have some things that that I had to learn, primarily conflict resolution.

Conflict resolution, it should be taught in schools. I agree Americans have a big problem with conflict resolution. It should be taught in schools.

Any of you politicians, I tell you, I want to work on a bill with me. Come on with it. I'm down. Conflict resolution should be taught in schools because I remember being on stage, mayor.

And somebody would like heckle. Oh, it would be a dude, always a dude. Heckle like, oh, man, I'd rather not talk, I'm crazy for no reason. And I would jump off stage. Nakama get back on stage and finish the show.

You know, I would do stuff like that, I mean, once we were in Jackson, Mississippi. Let me see. Statue of Liberty. OK, I'm past. Yeah, yeah, OK, we're in Jackson, Mississippi, and promotor. Owes us our back. You know, they pay you to front end, you know, for signing the contract, agreeing to do the show. Then you show up, they pay you the rest. We get there is chaos, everywhere is cars lining the streets is they're out on the grass.

We noticed be and for hours, I don't care how many sold out shows you.

Do you love to see the people turn out?

You go like, wow. So this is one of those nights.

I manage our road manager chief comes back to the limo and it's you know, this is long ago, long time ago, people were still around. We were still riding in limousines.

So a manager comes over, he say he say, hey, man, he said he got all the money. Promoter don't have all the money.

I mean, he got all the money and all these people out here. We like that we. I grab my cousin Dre and we go in there. Saima. You're going to come off that money. Or. At first, he chuckled. Say a bloqueo, bring their money back here and get it out of that, he gave us the money. We came back to the limo, OK? You've been careful with this even. Hey, I the most got the money, we got the money, and now everything is good.

Went on stage and did the show. And then left. This is me, like, again, cowboy Western days, right, not really taking like like all kinds of things that could happen with that situation.

Sure. Like going back on the stage and just going back on stage and back up, just taking that money like that in the first place.

You know, that's a case that could be a case. OK, then you go on stage to show this, that we're in his hometown. He could be rallying the troops. Won't we come out this old. I'm not thinking on that type level like he violated you get this and that's it, and it's whatever you want to get different now. Oh.

In that exact same situation, I would try to convince him to pay a. Like he still wouldn't get away with it. But I would just do it differently. Yeah, I like I get it. Yeah, yeah, I still he would have to pay up.

I mean, there's a long history of promoters not paying people. Yeah, he did. They must pay. They must pay. They must pay. Because what you don't want to do is. You don't want to have like be in a situation where people. Owe you money and. Look, man, it's a it's an honest day's work for honest day's pay. Nothing more, nothing less. You know, same way with record contracts and stuff. I've heard people talk about bad, about executives and stuff, what they didn't pay.

Well, you know what? I'm not against a shot that we're talking about. Well, you can't go get your money.

You're not going to get your money. Like, I don't want to stay in it. Right. When did you guys meet? Did you guys meet for office space or do you know each other before that? It was it was after threw after through Brad. Yeah.

I mean, I was a huge fan.

I put all those songs and office space, which actually was the beginning of office space when he's in the car wrapping by himself as one of the classic all time. So yeah.

Yeah. I met Mike in 2013 at South by Southwest.

Yeah. Brad was in town. Brad, I also put Brad in Idiocracy. He's in there briefly. But yeah, we, we met 2013 and I nerd it out probably like you did.

Yeah.

But I was I mean, I just think all these stories are incredible and yeah we stayed in touch since and that's pretty cool.

But I'm a giant fan of people who overcome adversity because I think it's not just a testament to your character, but it's a lesson for other people. That's why I think it's so important.

That's why I jumped on social media. I knew I was risking a lot of disrespect. Right, because people on social media and on the Internet period can be the most disrespectful bastards ever. And, you know, like they say things that, you know, they would never, ever, ever say to your face. But they just beat me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, man.

So I knew what I was doing. I knew that that would be. People, that was. We're just opposed just to oppose there are people out there that they see you doing. They want to oppose just about I knew there would be people that would try to.

Leverage my, my, my history, my past against me, I knew that would happen, sometimes people do stuff like that. Because they don't want you to give up information that could save somebody else, they don't want people to be saved. You think that's true? Oh, yeah.

There are some really evil people in the world. When I was young, I was an idealist. I didn't think that I knew people out there like that, but I didn't think it was that many. The Internet opened it up. It really exposed. It is some really, really bad people in the world.

There's some bad people and very, very, very.

United, say, hurt people, hurt people, yes, right. Yeah, so a lot of these people are hurt. They don't know how to channel that anger. And into something positive, right? So they just take the easy out and do the negative thing. Yeah, right.

And they just go like however they feel at that moment, they just respond, well, when you're in a position like you're in, you're in the public and you have that comment section, that's just it's a honeypot for those kind of people.

Yeah. Look, I'm just looking for an opportunity to try to get under your skin.

Yeah, yeah. And what I do to them, I try to be as disrespectful as I possibly can.

I notice that. Look, let me tell you, man, when I say I try to be disrespectful, I try to make them crawl back under that rock that they came from under.

But you're giving them attention and doing so. No, no, no. When I say no, no, no, no.

When I smash them, I destroy them. I let them know nobody likes you. You have a hard time getting a girlfriend.

Your children don't like your mommy and daddy didn't like you. So you come on here and you see people having a good time and you see people are in good spirits and you want to destroy that and make them feel like you are miserable, low down and you are uncivilized.

Mutt, nobody likes you and then I block them.

One of them had the audacity to come under a different name and say, Oh, you're so Mr. Big Shot. You want to block somebody when I say something back, look, bastard, you're not going to come up off my name. You're not going to come up, get on my platform and handle me at that time.

So I got moderators on my platforms and I do a lot of it myself too. So when they come, I go is to destroy trolls.

I got moderators like like Lechon and Miss Meechie and Leili, you know, man, we destroy them. Miss China. Why China? We plan on Geissman.

You have to destroy them, make them feel like the low life that they are. And what and I'll tell you what's happened numerous times. They'll delete their comment. Oh, I sometimes I'll give them a chance to to do the right thing. I'll give them a chance to do the right thing, and if they don't do the right thing, if they try to continue on that lonely road. I will hit them with the block and that hosta blocking is the ultimate, ignoring a person, ignoring of a person when you block them.

Imagine somebody Bloche on their phone. It could be somebody that you don't really care too much about the idea of they block. What did I do with what's going on? You know, who are you to block me? You know, they don't like it hurts him.

And that's what I try to do. I try and I try to make them, first of all, just really feel worse than they already feel. And, you know, sometimes I can get suicide out of it.

You know, I have the exact opposite approach. I don't pay attention to anything. Well, what I think of my time is bandwidth. I feel like if I have 100 units, that's all I have. I'm concentrating on something like is the most important thing in my life, like having a conversation with my daughter, doing stand up something something that's super important, that requires 100 units. That's all I have with any time I spend talking with some fucking idiot.

That's just time I'm stealing from things I love. There's no time for that. There's zero time. I'm not changing people. I might make them feel bad. Yeah, they already feel bad. Yeah. And you're not going to make me feel bad. I know. Yeah.

And and that's beautiful.

But I feel a but coming. Well I'll give you a however you don't get to suicide some sort of a conjunction.

The way you do however is just as good somehow you know how he ever seems to not be as brutal as a butt but is like, you know, like I is more subtle.

Er it's kind of subtle.

However, however, I. I think that is possible to walk and chew bubble gum, right? So for me, I just I look at it like walking and chewing bubble gum, like, OK, I can do both. I can. I can give that information to the people that want it, and that's cool about it and keep it moving, but every night, you know, every now and then I can.

Take a look, quick pause and make him feel worse than he already feels like it did to block moves like the straw.

You know what?

One day I was at this restaurant in Houston and it's why do you probably buy thirty five or something, you know? Round about the white terrorist, eight terrorist whites, here's white domestic Mr. White domestic terrorists age, he comes walking up to me.

Right. He's right here, you will read. And it's always the first thing I do, I take a step and I'm watching everything now, I'm really intense. I like it on. And I say, yeah. He say, hey, man, hey, man, I'm the one that was on Facebook. Man, you know, you told me.

You told me my kids were ugly, like I say. Yeah, that sounds like something I would have said. I say, but what did you say?

He say, Oh, man is not the man. No, I'm not. I trippin, man. You know, it's just it was just, you know, social media banter, man, you know, I. But. Locked in on a little bit more and, you know. To make sure, but. Yeah, I remember when I said that, like the dude was talking reckless, so I checked out his profile so as low key Sulmona with his kids.

Yeah. And I like. Yeah, don't try to check me. Check your baby. Take the DNA for your little babies. Oh my goodness. And and a broken arm broken.

Well, most trolls have private accounts. And you see if you ever do pay attention to comments, if you go into their accounts, most of them block everybody. Yeah. You can't look at the pictures because they know they are out there causing shit.

It's going to come blowback onto them.

They're cowards. Yeah. Most of them that don't have a picture, they have like I have toys and stuff like that, you know, they have cartoons and a picture of a car or something.

Yeah. A brick. I don't I don't even respond to those type of people.

Most of the time. I just block them. I just immediately block them.

Because I don't feel like it's cool game, it's not it's like I'm putting myself out there, right?

I you know who I am. You see me. You know why I beat you, but you hide and you low key, you are dialed up right now.

It's hilarious. Yes. I see you immediately ramped up when you started talking about trolls. You could see. I did. I do that. Yes. OK, intense. Yes, very intense. Are you enjoying this real.

Oh, it's real. All right.

It's interesting that that guy came up, that that guy came up to you. That's like he I felt bad, but I felt bad for being a dick.

People say people see a famous person like you and they don't think you're a real person to feel like they get a free shot at.

Like they could just say something and nothing is going to happen to them. You know, this what people don't understand, Joe. I love people for real. Just just on the strength of human beings, I love people.

I love who love me, but I hate who hate me is. I'm not the religious dude. God forgive, turn the other cheek. No, that is not me.

That is not me. It's never going to be me. And I'm fine with that.

People say, well, you should forgive yourself. Well, how about getting some vengeance for myself?

It makes me feel better. That's what makes me feel good, you know. Well, it clearly doesn't bother you.

No, it doesn't seem to disjoined.

It's everybody has a different mental constitution. I don't want them in my head. You know, I have too much time. I have too many things going on. Yeah. That's how I look at it. But I used to engage with people all the time. I just treated like writing exercises. I would say, well, let me treat this dude like he's a heckler, you know, and just fuck him up like a heckler.

But then after a while I'm like, I don't this is robbing me of my time. That's how I looked at it.

But when they come to your platform, you have the ultimate power. It's like having the mike be an accountant. You know how they go. Yeah.

You got the mike. Yeah. To do it. And audience has no chance of winning, right. No matter what he says. I mean, you get to drown him out. You got the mike. Yes.

So when somebody comes onto your social media account, you have the mike. They cannot win.

I understand. I'm looking forward to it. Well, he basically threw the bat signal, after all, they're all going to come swarming towards Willie D. No, no, no, they're not. You know why they not?

Because they don't chose a police. Yeah. They're just like any typical bully. You have to bully bullies. Bullies don't like to be bullied. They don't like hard fights. Yeah, they like easy fights. Right. They bullies only strike when they have a clear cut advantage. Size numbers, weaponry.

Yeah, and when they think that they have someone who is afraid it's the only time they strike. You have to understand the psyche of a bully, you know how I understand that I used to be one that I used to be a bully. I was a bully till seventh grade. But I backed up off of it. When did you start boxing, what year? I was 11, so whatever that was, that's right. Seventy seven, that's right.

Around seventh grade. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So that's when you probably figured that's listen, I was an angry fucking kid until I started doing martial arts. That was around 14.

You know, once you once you can figure out how to get your aggression out and also realize you get humbled, you know, get your ass kicked a bunch of times, get humbled and and you realize, like there is no reason to be angry for no reason. Right.

And you understand that. It's almost like you understand that you're going to have conflict at some point when you do, you just reserve all your energy for that. Mm. Yeah, you don't waste your energy. You don't waste your resources. Yeah. You just, you know, is it's a such thing as, like being calculative and picking your battles. Right. Yeah. And so that's what you do is like when you box you don't have anything to prove.

Everybody knows you it. But I know you were bad. That's what you do for your best. You know that's what you do. Yeah. Everybody knows. So you have nothing to prove. And so. You want to save your energy, you got a fight coming up, you don't want to miss your hands up, your knuckles up, you know you don't want to you know, you don't even want to get yourself injured in no kind of way.

You want to get tired from training all the time. Yeah, well, but you can muster up the energy to cool out if you have to. Oh yeah.

But the point is, when you are when you, when you, when you fight, you know, like, like my hands are still registered. I know what I can do with my hands. I know that I can kill somebody. And so. The liability is much greater for me than anybody, some regular do just a couple of regular dos and streetfighter is just a regular fight. Yeah, but if I fight right on, the prosecutor will judge or jury has registered Mr.

Dennis, you know, like and you knew your hands.

What rights do you want to go? You hold your hands up. Can you can you show you when they do it. When you are when you when you fight.

When you win. When you registered a box. Yeah. When you register for a fight they act like pro fighting. Right. Yeah. So then they say OK, you are a professional fighter, you have a higher liability if you enter into some sort of a conflict.

Exactly. Yeah.

Well you beat somebody up for sure. They are going to go on the Internet. They're going to go to this fucking fair. Yeah.

It's there's so many people out there that could benefit from learning how to fight. And this is funny thing that I always tell people. The best way to get rid of bullies is to teach bullies how to fight. Like the the problem with most bullies is they're they're trying to boost up their own confidence by intimidating and diminishing other people. But it's really the really lacking confidence.

If you taught them how to fight, they would abandon all that shit. The baddest motherfuckers are very rarely bullies.

Occasionally, occasionally you get some real tough dudes that just enjoy hurting people. They've been hurt so much in their life. Like no matter what, even just learning how to fight is not enough to eliminate whatever bullshit they have rolling around in their head.

Right. Speaking of fighting, speaking old dudes fighting. Mike Tyson and Roy Jones Junior this weekend. What do you think of that? Oh, interesting. Crazy, right?

Yeah, I think it's I think I'm not too crazy to me, you know, because I know they're fighters and, you know, they.

A fight is as long as a fighter knows that people want to watch. They'll get in the ring if the money is right. Yeah. But Roy fought as recently as two years ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but that's still a still ring. Yeah, not as much as Tyson but steel ring rust and so. It's going to be interesting, man, because. Both guys are like not just champions, but they are Hall of Fame champions, most people that I've heard talk say Roy is going to get ran through.

I don't know I don't know what's going to happen, I think it's going to boil down to which one of them are more prepared. Yeah, that's what I think is going to happen, it's going to come down to who's more prepared?

Well, they are they definitely have different sizes. You know, Roy's a he's a legend.

They're both legends.

But Roy Champion, one hundred sixty eight pounds, champion 175 beat ruys that he was about 200 when he won the heavyweight title. But he was never really like a prisoner. He was not a natural hitting Tyson's tank.

Right. Physically is a different person and I don't like that they're switching it to two minute rounds.

That that drives me crazy. But how many rounds is it? Eight. Eight. Two minute rounds with whereases means more action. Yeah, it does.

But what a guy like Roy and one of things Roy said is that he wants to drag Tyson out like he's like if Tyson is going to be he's going to beat me. Like he's like, I want this fight to go. He goes, I want to get him tired. And he goes, and I have much more of a chance to get him tired. If he's fighting three minute rounds, he's like, we're grown men.

And I guess the WBC was pointing to Julio Cesar Chavez, I think had a boxing exhibition recently. I think it was Chavez.

It was some some legend that was retired that had a boxing exhibition recently. And it was real tired. And their thought was, you know what, instead of letting them get this tired, let's make them just despite shorter rounds. But Roy's like this is like what women fight. The women fight two minute rounds. So it got yeah.

She got sexual successes, you know, but he didn't I don't think Tyson one or two and it rounds either. Yeah. It would have been nice. Yeah.

It's some rules. Have you seen the rules for the fight. Well there's no judges and there's no liberty. No decision. Celebrity judge. Yeah. What kind of.

They haven't announced that yet. Oh Jesus. And there's no winner. You're going to be announced.

Well there's going to be a winner if Mike Tyson connects on Roy's face or if Roy connects with Mike Tyson and talks about any cut, any cut is bad.

Bad cut, it says.

But the fuck out of here with that should be a boxing match. These are legit. They both get a belt when it's over.

Oh, no, no, you can't have participation trophies. So this is what happens if someone gets knocked out.

The winner would have to listen if if Tyson knocks him out, he wins. If Roy knocks Tyson out, he wins.

This is this is nonsense. This guy.

Listen, I think to get it sanctioned in California, they had to agree to some stupid shit.

I guarantee you, when that thing when that bell goes off, that is going to be a fucking fight. Mike Tyson is not fighting any exhibitions. He's going to come bobbing and weaving, swinging death with each hand. And Roy Jones Junior is going to be moving and throwing that nasty left hook. And that's the best man win. But that is going to be a fight. I cannot imagine those two legends are just going to move around. Like if you watch Roy Jones Jr.

hit the pads, have you seen him hit the pads lately? He looks fucking fantastic. He's fast is shit. His hands look amazing. Mike looks amazing. I mean, both of them look like they're taking this very seriously. I can't imagine a world where someone doesn't connect and some crazy shit doesn't happen.

Yeah. And this is one of those things, man, I got to see it. Yes, that's what I'm saying. I got to see this man. Well, you're going to go, right? Yeah. Yeah, I was going to go.

That was going to go to then, you know, they said there won't be any people allowed. Yeah. Yeah. And I was going to, you know, go down there for the weekend and everything.

Well, here's some crazy the distance that we are apart from each other on this table. I was going to make it closer because this new studio is a little more compact.

But I had Mike in at the last podcast. Mike's been on twice. He was on once about 11 months ago when he was on 11 months ago. He said he couldn't even work out. He goes, if I work out, my ego get ignited and then I just want to destroy again. I want to be the Mike Tyson of all this. I don't want to have nothing to do with that. That's my past. I'm done.

Wow. Well, then he started I think his wife called him fat and he started working out and he goes and I started out with like 15 minutes on the treadmill.

Next thing you know, I'm doing two hours, two hours on the treadmill.

He gets in tremendous shape. And then someone says, you know, would you would you boxing?

Oh, I'm not I'm not boxing anybody.

And then they go, what about for 30 million dollars over, what, 30 million? And so he decides this today they're getting for shirt.

I say, well, say you lost almost 100 pounds. That's incredible.

Yeah, he was probably pushing 300 pounds at one point. Not when I saw him, not 11 months ago.

Overall, I know he was, but he looks 11 months ago, he was probably about like maybe 250 or something like that. So he definitely lost about 30 pounds.

But so the distance between us is because he was so amped up, it was like a different human being.

The first time we were smoking weed. He's relaxed. You know, he's got Tyson ranched now.

He's selling his own weed, by the way, strong as shit.

His weed is like his punches there. No fucking joke.

So first first podcast we did, we got barbecued. We had a great time, like, holy shit, I'm getting high with Mike Tyson. Second podcast we did.

He was so intense. And we were talking about like great conquerors and shit. He was talking about all these different things. And I'm like, I'm nervous in the room with him. Like he's so amped up, like his forearms, you could see his whole body changed.

Like he's he's like he's got golf balls under there's this forearm muscle he had just been training. And you could tell he's he's like Mike Tyson of all his mindset, whether or not he's physically capable of it.

His mindset is like the Mike Tyson of all.

It was legitimately nervous to be in the room with him because I was just like, wow.

Like, he's he's ready he's ready to go right now. And I'm like, you know what?

I'm going to make my tape a little wider because it was even closer to him than this, because this is the exact distance of the old table.

But the new table is like, I'm going to make it about like a foot closer.

But if I was a foot closer to Mike like this, I'd probably be nervous.

I'd be more or anything. It was actually no, it was Mike Tyson. He was so intense.

I'm like in order for me to do my best job of communicating with people in case I'm across from some, you know, like amped up killer, like Mike Tyson, you know, just natural.

I mean, it's not like I think he's going to hurt me, but you you get nervous. I mean, he he and Jamie said it best after he left.

You were like that was a totally different person.

You were nervous to them that close. I know that he's amped up.

I'm trying to find his body, trying to I'm trying to surprise you with this video. If I could find. Is it of him. No, no.

This is something this he's I have to run it. Yeah. Yeah. OK, Mike, thank you very much. Next time I'll have you come in by yourself. I'd love to. Yeah.

Well, we going to do dinner at six o'clock OK. Yeah. I'll see you later. Yeah. Well thank you Mike.

Yeah. All right Mike. All right. Mike. Judge, ladies and gentlemen. Mike Judge. But yeah, so that's that's the reason why this this table is so far apart. I'm interested because, you know, Evander Holyfield wants to fight him, too. And Evander Holyfield has been steady training ever since Mike decided to come out of retirement. And I've been watching that.

But paying attention to Evander social media, I think that this is going to awaken a lot of sleeping giant. Yeah, I like I can see because Holyfield was supposed to fight the first time really initially. This is supposed to be a Holyfield. Mike Tyson saying, I believe. Well, Mike said they offered him a bunch of different people, but he didn't say Holyfield. He said they offered him Bob Sapp, OK. At one point in time.

And then there was a few during a chat and the cannon was trying to get in on it.

You know, Shannon was trying to, like a lot of people don't want to fight Shannon. Right.

He's got a real hard time getting fights, which is unfortunate because, you know, Shannon still got talent and he's been wanting to fight people for quite a while now. But, you know, with this, there are you know, it's this weird situation where I feel like a person should be able to do whatever they want to do. You know, if people can go bungee jumping, people can ride bulls, people could do all sorts of crazy shit like why are we trying to stop legends from fighting?

We don't want the liability. Yeah. You know, somebody go out there and get hurt, you know, firsthand, because everybody can look for somebody to blame and the family going to be like, you should have never let them get out their hundred million dollars, WBA, WBC, IBF, whoever who's who's actually doing this. I think WBC because they have a weird belt. What is the belt called? It's like. Some some weird name to the belt, some legends or something like that or something, yeah, I just I don't like the idea of both guys getting a belt.

That seems ridiculous. Now, not and that's not a good idea. Both guys should get a paycheck, but there should be a winner.

Front line heavyweight title, the front line heavyweight title.

Well, it will be interesting if they decide to do a legend's tour, because it's one of the things that Mike came on to talk about, he wanted to have legends, play basketball legends, play baseball legends like, you know, guys who you grew up watching and they still want to do they still want to compete. And maybe they can't compete with young guys, but you could still watch them compete against guys of their era.

Yeah, that would be like kind of like what Ice Cube is doing with the big three. The Basketball League.

Yes. Yes, very similar. Very similar. Yeah. He get the right right. Kind of guys. I mean. Yeah, people would watch that. Yeah. But the thing about is that the only difference is that you go play basketball, maybe you have so bad knees, a little swollen or whatever you're going to get in that ring. It may not come out. Yes, that's that. Boxing is something that's a totally different beast, so.

I can see somebody getting hurt, though, 100 percent. I think someone's going somebody will be hurt. I think someone's going to get hurt.

I think both of them know someone's going to get hurt, you know, and. I think they're OK with that. You know, Roy said on the show that if he dies box and he'll be happy, he said, if that's how I die, he goes, I'm a warrior. If that is how I die, he goes, that's what I love to do and that's how I die. I'll die happy if that is what he said on the podcast and he didn't say it to like.

To be braggadocios or to be full of bluster, he was he was sincere.

Yeah, he's a multiple division world champion legend who will go down in history is without a doubt one of the greatest fighters of all time.

Yeah, yeah. I think if you can go on your terms, I mean, that's the way to go. I have it. We all go. However, that is.

Yeah, we all go. And that's how his his perspective was. He's like, we all die. If he dies that way then so be it. Do you have to respect that? No, no, this is this is Mickolus phone. Oh, I think he's probably looking for it. Yeah, I was confused.

Yeah. I hope no one gets hurt. I hope no one dies, obviously. But I feel like they should have the right to do whatever they want to do. These guys are legends. And I feel like with Mike Tyson, you know, his glory days were probably beyond anything that anybody else other than him or maybe some other world champions could comprehend what that must have been like. Yeah.

You know, for people that didn't grow up during that era like you and I did when, you know, Sports Illustrated just sent me the cover of Sports Illustrated back when he was nineteen, said Kid Dynamite.

Yeah. So you post it on Instagram because I remember that. Yeah, I remember I bought that that Sports Illustrated was like, wow, nineteen.

This is crazy. Yeah.

And then I remember watching him fight on TV.

I was like, holy shit, because he would send people flying like people don't remember when when he was coming up and he would be on television like ABC Wide World of Sports where he knocked out Marvis Frazier.

He was a destroyer. It was like nothing we had ever seen before. Like the heavyweight division had gotten boring. You know, there was some good fighters, you know, but it was boring in comparison to what Mike Tyson was doing.

And, yeah, he's. In my opinion, like the last great. Like, really exciting heavyweight, him and Holyfield, like I'm talking about exciting, like every time out. Yeah, you don't know what's going to happen, but, you know, they're going to give it. They're going to break it.

You get those goosebumps when the first bell is about to ring.

Beautiful. Just just beautiful watching those dudes fight. I was never Lennox Lewis. Never. Never. You met him. You'd be a fan. He's a great dude.

Yeah. And he's thinking about coming back to. Yeah. Starting to throw some money at Lennox.

What I didn't like about Lennox was that it was just a jab. And then over here. Right. Just keep you at bay. Keep Baykeeper Bay. Keep in the back. You know, I just wanted more excitement, you know, like and and I heard that about Lennox. I heard that he's a great, great guy. But I like to see danger. I want to see something like.

Really like I'm. I like to see explosiveness.

I understand. Right. But he landed when he landed. It was explosive, but he just played it smart.

I know. Especially after I know he knew to start training. He paid he played a cautious yes he was. But I thought he was too cautious of a fighter. I just thought he was too cautious and not even like not even like cautious like Floyd Mayweather, because Floyd is very cautious, too.

But Floyd knows how to go in and put on a show to Floyd is a different kind of cautious in that Floyd can stand right in front of you and be cautious.

Yeah, that's he's got a whole different kind of game with that shoulder roll and his understanding of movement and where the punches are coming from. Floyd can stand right in front of you and still be safe.

He's an unusual do that doesn't get nearly enough respect. Yeah, like the average person that doesn't really totally understand boxing when you're watching him, you just hoping someone gets knocked out those kind of people. You don't know what he's doing.

But if you're a boxing fan, you watch him like Jesus Christ. He stands right. He's been hit hard maybe four times in his whole fucking career. I mean, it's amazing.

I was just watching this situation fight. She Keshav fight. He cracked them. Yeah, he cracked. But Floyd immediately held on. Yeah. Came back and started boxing his ears off. Yeah. He recovered.

Yeah. Now Floyd is a master. He's a master. Yeah.

To no matter what anybody says about him, I mean also a master troll like became super famous and super successful by getting people to root for him to lose. Yeah.

I mean this half of his, his thing is like talking tons of shit, showing you all his money, showing your cars and then fuck it up. The guy you're hoping is going to beat him.

You have flaws like you, right? You know, I never thought of Floyd as a troll, but. If he's a troll, he's the troll that. Only responds once, like how many, like you put it out there. You guys said you don't like what he did, but you come back. Say what you got to say and then, bam, he gone into the stratosphere to go do something, something else big and put that in your face.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He doesn't he doesn't go back to those old guys, right? Yeah.

I'm interested to see what he's going to do because apparently he's going to come back.

You know, one of the things about Floyd is he loves to spend money and no matter how much money you make and he's made over a billion dollars in his career, a guy like that, even though he's 40 years old, he could burn through that, which sounds crazy that you could burn through a billion dollars.

But you ever seen his garage?

It's just Batle, Bentley, Bentley, Ferrari, Rolls Royce, Rolls Royce, Rolls Royce. He probably got 100 cars. Each one of them was worth three hundred thousand dollars. He started doing the math on that like, holy shit, you could burn through a billion dollars.

Well, I think what Tyson said, he burned hundreds of two hundred million worth hundreds of millions. So if if if Tyson can burn through 200 million or 300 or 400, whatever, good.

Yeah. I mean, it's possible. It's crazy, though. It seems impossible, but it's possible.

It's it's totally possible the way Floyd lives. I mean, I just I mean, who knows, maybe he leases some of them.

Maybe he's very smart about it. Maybe a lot of it is for show. So he gives people the impression that he's going to run out.

Even at least some of those type of things is very expensive, very expensive. That stuff is expensive. Yeah. You know, you've got to think about it. And when you spend it, if you're leasing. They say a. 200000 thousand vehicle. Yeah, you know, he still still looking at 10 racks. Yes. You know. You know, every month, yeah, yeah, when you consider that the tax, I mean, not tax, but when you consider the the police and the insurance on those things.

Yeah. You know, my minimum. Yeah. It's a lot of money. Yeah.

And then he's got watches. His watches are ridiculous. Watches that are worth more than a million dollars. Yeah, but also that's part of his PR, like his PR is he's his money, right, money Mayweather.

He's got to show the money, actually. Yeah, I put money in the face. Yeah. And he he'll tell you this is for the haters.

This is for the haters. I want to show you this. Right. And it's like taking a tour of all those cars, the people that have like they want them to lose, they get so angry.

I was at the Floyd Mayweather. There he is. Oh, this one. Mike Tyson walked up to me and flexed on him, him and Mike Tyson. Apparently it had some words. And Mike, it said some negative things about him. That's an uncomfortable feeling for Floyd.

I just Google I thought it happened yesterday that says it was like something no going around. This was quite a while ago. No. Yeah, it was going around.

Tyson said some things about him in the past, but I'm I'm interested to see what he does because, you know, Manny Pacquiao just beat Keith Thurman.

And that's a respectable victory. That's a that's a huge that's a huge victory for 40 year old guy who that Manny Pacquiao. He just beat Keith Thurman.

He did. Yeah. Win a couple of months ago. Four months ago. Five months ago.

What was it, pretty covid or during covid? It might have been pre covered, it might have been like right around March or something like that. So they're talking about that rematch because, you know, the first time they fought, apparently Manny had a fucked up shoulder. I still can't not. What are you trying to find, I can't find. With that now, what are you trying to find? So that was this other match that I want to show you from.

Yeah. Oh yeah. I can't can't seem to find it.

Well, send it to me later and I'll put it up on my Instagram.

Oh, yeah, we're here.

It is Conor McGregor versus Manny Pacquiao. Fight will definitely happen, says manager. Fuck out of here. What manager?

Who says that? Who's the manager? Scroll down. Let me see if this marriage is full of shit.

Who is it? The second MacGregor's manager. I mean, it's just a testament of how bad boxing has really gotten. No, you know, we got to go back and get dues that are washed up in many fighters, you know, like that. I mean, well, we'll see why step but got washed by your arrival of yours and boxing already. Yeah, I try to do this again. We've already seen this fight.

I think it's just for money. Yeah. I think for Manny, he realizes that Connor is such an enormous superstar that if they fight, he's going to make a shitload.

It is going to be the same thing. No, man, he's going to beat the brakes off of him. But in the worst way, man, he's going to beat him in a worse way because. Yeah, man, he's going to come storming the gates, man. He's not going to box him until he gets tired and then be the last man.

He's probably going to fuck them up from the jump, if I imagine Connor's a very athletic, very fast and powerful guy in the first couple of rounds.

He's always dangerous just because he hits hard and he's fast, but he doesn't have the efficiency or the fluidity like a world champion boxer like Floyd Mayweather or Manny Pacquiao.

It's just not the same. Yes. The idea that a guy with one professional fight ever as a boxer and it's against Floyd Mayweather. Yeah.

Yeah, that's crazy. So and this would be his second one. But again, it's amazing that he made it Manny Pacquiao. That's pretty crazy to do that. Good.

I don't think it went ten rounds. Believe it did. I think he stopped them in the ninth. Check that out. It was quite a while. Yeah.

Because I remember a lot of people thought that Floyd placed a bet that the fight would go to the 10th round because there were some crazy odds.

Yeah, because it was an enormous favorite. I mean, there's probably some I mean, was the the favorite was probably like I got a match.

He was like a 50 to one favorite or something crazy. Yeah.

What were the odds of the Manny Pacquiao five to one. That's it.

I mean a one to twenty five favorite is how you were that technically that's crazy.

That that's it I would have thought had been like Mike Tyson, Buster Douglas, which was like sixty to one or something crazy. That makes more sense to me because like you know, Connor could have won. I mean, anything's possible. Weird shit happens when two do decide to punch each other in the face.

Yeah, you're right. I mean, you're talking about two professionals. Anytime you get in the ring. Somebody threw my punches. Yeah. A person always has a chance even against the greatest.

Yeah, it's not a good chance, but it's a chance. But it's a chance because it can happen. Because if you throw that punch and you landed in the right place.

Hasim Rackman, Lennox Lewis is a. Yeah. I remember that fight where Rahman knocked out Lennox Lewis and they're doing shit and I remember when he got knocked that too.

But when when when when Lennox came right back. Yes. Yeah.

Starched him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He said that was one of his finest moments. He did. Yeah.

Just because it was so hard to get that rematch because Rottman knew that it was not likely he's going to repeat that lightning in a bottle from the first fight.

Yeah. RockMelt is another good guy. You know, he's another good guy. Tough, decent boxing, you know. Yeah, I'm like a good person. Yeah. Got a good good. Got a good spirit. You know, do you still train I don't I don't I don't I don't go anywhere near the gym, but I. I do. I hit the track. Yeah, no. Four to five days a week, really, three miles just for health, just running and stuff here just to go, I think I think it's important for you to clear my head is a big part of it, but the bigger part of it is the help.

Yeah. You know, to keep that heart pumping and keep the blood flowing. Good. You know, stay ready to say I got to get ready.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, stay healthy, too. Never know. Never know.

You never know. Never know what you're thinking. You never know. So if someone comes knocking you never know really. We'd like to talk to you about an opportunity. You never know. You never know. You never know. But you don't hit the bag or anything. I don't know. I don't want you want to every now and then. Just I do.

I do. Every night. Every night. But see, I. I know me. See, if I go in the gym and start working at, like, training and stuff, I'm going to want to spar. Uh, once you get you start getting into sports, sparring is different from the hitting bags and running and all that stuff. When you get that ring ring and you spar.

It's a different beast, you can run five miles a day, six days a week to 1000 sit ups and push ups and hit that bag. But 10 rounds, ten, three minute round, do all that stuff you can do, you jump rope, six rounds, listening to all that stuff. And get in that ring the first time to spar, and you'd be lucky to get out of the first round if if it's high intensity, you know, yeah, he'd be lucky to get out of that first round.

Got you. Got to spar. That's how you get in shape. You spar the gym that you came up in.

Was it a gym where you sparred hard or the gym is part technical.

It was more technical because we were all on the same team and we were young. So it was actually George Foreman's gym, real car main event. His brother, Roy Foreman, ran it. Really? Yeah, did you meet George? Yeah, yeah. That's a deal. Yeah, I'd love to meet George George before he made his comeback. I lived on. Collinswood Street College Worth It North and East takes freeway in Houston, and these apartments call Collingsworth Apartments and right across the street.

Was an empty field, a gas station used to be, and it would be out there on Sundays preaching why her mike persistent but 20 chairs, two people.

Wow. And I used to look down like, look out of the window and I looked down like I would be like in the. I remember George was 36 and he weighed like 300 pounds.

And they announced that George Foreman was making a comeback and everybody laughed. Yeah. And I remember he was big, like real big way overweight. And he wound up winning a fight. And everybody was like, oh, poor guy like that. And that's silly. Well, I'm going to be the heavyweight champion of the world again. And I was like, get the fuck out of here. But then slowly he started slimming down and it's flat lining people.

And then after and then he fought Jerry Cooney, you remember that, and just beat the fucking shit out of him.

And everybody was like, oh, my God. Like, George Foreman can crush people still at this age and then knocked out Michael Moore. Remember that. Right.

And that and that Michael Moore not got it look like a flash knocked down. But this but it finished him.

It was like this. Yes.

But his hands are like the size of like a canned ham. Yeah, they're enormous.

He had crazy power, like George always had crazy power.

But the knockout of it's almost like like you just threw his arm out there and caught it perfectly on the chin and drop more and more was a light heavyweight. He was the destroyer. Do you remember that?

I didn't watch a lot of fights, but I think I watched my mike fight at Lightweight, maybe twice at light heavyweight.

Michael Moore was a fucking murderer. He's one of the great light heavyweights ever. But it was just too hard for him to make that way. And he wanted to make the money of heavyweight. So he moved up and went up to heavyweight.

But he was never that's that frame. It didn't have that that same frame.

He also seemed to be overwhelmed. And there he is. Boom, like his eyes didn't have that wheel.

Oh, I didn't see I didn't see that that hunger in his eyes when he fought that fight, that that kind of power is just bizarre when you watch that punch again.

Watch this again. He was winning the fight, too, he was out boxing, George. Boom. That's it. That's the way he would throw that punch looking like throws it. Mm hmm. Just just perfect execution lands right on the button and more is gone. But he just never had that shook up the world. But that let me know also that. You can't just underestimate people. No, because like I said, I saw. The shadow of.

The former shadow of George Floor, George Foreman. You know, and I was like. And I'm thinking like this guy was the heavyweight champion of the world has to be look at him not out on the corner, you know, talking to there.

And then 20 years later, he's worth a billion dollars from a grill.

Yeah, that George Foreman grill, he's made an insane amount of money off of that. You know what, though?

He don't get enough credit for inspiring people like I know he didn't set out to go out and inspire people, but people watching him come back and win at a heavyweight championship at, what, 40 years, 45, I believe.

I believe he was the oldest person ever to win the world title. I believe he was 45.

All right. To see him come back and win that championship at that age. It made a lot of people think, you know what, I can do this, and I'm sure that probably played out enticing and right here what George did.

Well, not much difference between what we did with fifty one. Yeah, yeah. It's kind of crazy. George was a different kind of human being, though, just the way he was built. He's such a tank. Oh, that's right.

He had that George sitcom kind of amazing man. I mean, he really is an American success story when you stop and think about it. That's right. I forgot about the sitcom. It's so ridiculous.

It was funny because if you go back to the early days of George Foreman's career, like when he fought Muhammad Ali, he was a scary guy. He was scary. Everybody was terrified of them.

And then in the later incarnation of his career, he was a sweetheart.

Everybody loved him. Right. A different human being.

Like when he knocked out Joe Frazier, everybody was terrified of him. He lifted Joe Frazier up in the air with punches. He destroyed them. Right.

And, you know, he he just was this guy that was just like brooding Sonny Liston type character.

And then he loses to Muhammad Ali. And then he had, I think, two more fights and then retired.

It's like, I don't want to do this anymore. And then took a long time off. I think it was about ten years, got fat, became a preacher. And that's when you saw. Again, yeah, and then nut's. Yeah, yeah, you can't underestimate people, human beings, they vary so much in their will and some people have an indomitable will, they just figure out a way to win. And those people are so valuable to everybody else because you see a guy like that.

And when you start to count yourself out like, wow, I can never do that, well, I can.

And then you see guys like that and you go almost anything's possible and not everything is not possible. Look, I'm right. I'm short. I can't play basketball. You know, I'm not fast. I can't jump. It's not never going to be in the the NBA. I'm fifty three. That's not possible. But there's things that are possible. They're just not likely. And if you have a will, you can make shit possible that most people don't think is likely.

Right.

When when a person like that does things like that, when they achieve these goals, they don't seem possible. It changes your idea.

What's possible? I like the possibility, yes, yes, I like yeah, because we need like I you broke it down, but we need winners, man.

Winners are important. You know, it's not just important because people like to watch people win, but important because it gives people hope. It gives people an understanding that there's there's levels to commitment.

You know, like, you know, David Goggins is you know, David Goggins is a friend of mine. He's a Navy SEAL. That is probably the most inspirational people you ever run into. And he's got this Instagram page, and he used to be fat. He's be like 300 pounds. And now he runs ultramarathons like runs like these two hundred forty mile races, gets done with them, does 50 pushups.

But every day he's out there, grind it and make these videos and talk about the thing that's in your mind. Like he made this video.

He goes, he goes the other day he goes, I got tired because I didn't want to run. So I recorded myself and I listened to myself and he was then I played it back and I sounded like a straight bitch. And I'm listening myself, the fuck that. And I went out and ran. And he does this all the time because he's letting you know that there's he's experiencing some internal struggles.

Right.

But he overcomes those struggles and and accomplishes his goals.

And when a person like that does those kind of things, you you you gain like the people that are like me or anybody else that's tuning into his page, you gain inspiration from that.

That's like super valuable.

There's God. That's it. That's OK. Take it out. He's hilarious, too. He's a funny guy. He's like, real honest about like, you know, sometimes I stare at my shoes.

I stare at those motherfuckers for like a half hour before I run because he's he's he even though he's got an iron will, still those that procrastination and doubt and weakness will creep into his mind and fuck, he always wins.

He always beats it.

But he's letting you know, like the battle never ends. It never ends. Right.

You never wake up in the morning this indomitable person that can never no doubt at all. You just get to know he's like, no, no, no.

I stare at my fucking sneakers. I don't want to do this, but I do it.

That's so when I hear about a person like that and I feel tired or weak or lazy, I recognize I'm not alone.

This is not the only person. I'm not the only person that has these weak thoughts creep into my mind.

Mm hmm. And with that and with that, because I go through the same thing, it was crazy, is that I know you hear like I hear. People say, man, how do you do it, you know, they think that, you know, you are this person that's bulletproof, like you don't have those moments of self doubt, you know, because, you know, sometimes that doubt creeps in because things are happening fast enough in your life, you know, that you how you want things to happen and you can't control everything.

Even being as influential and having the resources that we have, you know, sometimes, you know, certain things that you just out of your control. And so, you know, you know, you have doubt that creeps in. But for me, I know one of the things that that makes me push forward.

When I when I'm afraid of something, I go toward it because every time that I've been afraid of like a challenge. It's made me grow, I grew from it, I learned something. You know, I got something that I benefited from it, yeah, so sometimes I'm going and I say, oh, man, this is this is scary.

You know how they say if your dreams aren't big enough, you're not dreaming bigger than if your dreams don't scare you. You're not dreaming big enough. Yeah, that's how I am sometimes. And I dream big. So some like. I must get here. OK, I'm on the right path. Let me just do it. I'm just going to do it and see what happens. Because you said that people are going to hear that and they're going to realize, like, you don't have to be this bulletproof person, get shit done, like to be scared is not a weakness.

It's just part of being a human being.

And if you don't ever get scared, that means you don't ever take any chances. And if you don't ever take any chances, you don't get anything done right and especially don't get anything done.

It's interesting, right? I think it's like it's kind of like, you know, courage being the it's like that that motivating factor that where you. Well, you you know, it's like having the courage to face your fears, right? Yeah, you know, I think that's where a lot of people fall off. A lot of people don't have the courage to face their fears.

I do. When I was growing up, I used to fight all the time and. People thought that I was just like this brave dude and willingly, OK, I'll fight anybody to fight anybody. It wasn't there, you know, like they didn't understand. Like I fought so hard because I didn't want to lose.

Sometimes I was scared to do that, I was fine, you know, but I didn't want to lose, so I fought harder. And I'm from Fifth Ward, if you lose a fight. They're going to make you remember that for life. Yes, until you do something about it. So if you lose a fight. Typically, you have to fight the same person at least two times, two times minimum. Most times, well, three times you've got to find them more.

You got to fight multiple times if you beat somebody because you can be walking to the store and you can actually a friend say man in the bar, fight out this man, are you gonna fight?

Yeah, but you got your ass out there. Yeah. Mean like they won't let you forget it. Right. And so you got to go back and try to redeem yourself and you might have to take another stupid sometimes it might take three from the same person because you're worried about these other dos and saying about you man. And instead it's their pride. And you just so you they a person might even be afraid, but they face that fear, you know, because they don't want I think the consequences sometimes are a lot worse.

The consequences can motivate you to do things, though. The thing about losing, it's a terrible feeling, but it's one of the best things for you. It's one of the best motivators. If you lose, if you lose, just even lose a sparring match this day.

I think this times have been tapped out in jujitsu class that I'll be driving my car out of nowhere. I'll think about a triangle I got caught in. I think I'm out of time. I tapped maybe I maybe I could have got out, but I tapped early and the fuck with your head. But those are the things that make you work harder. I think about that shit when I'm in the gym. I think about that shit when I'm when I'm training.

It's like everything being good and all good feelings is actually bad for you. It seems like it's good for you, but it's like eating dessert every day is bad for you.

You want to have yes, you can lose your edge when you come. You want some discomfort. Discomfort is good. It's good. It feels like shit.

And this is what a lot of people can't get past and are trying to achieve their goals. They they have some setbacks. Some things don't go their way. They have some failures and they feel terrible and they don't like that feeling. So they just they just back off. But you got to keep going. That's that's when you have to keep going. And you will learn over time that there's a bunch of those. You'll have a lot of failures.

They're going to come. Right.

But if things you keep going that they will propel you, that bad feeling is inevitable. It's unavoidable. But you have to have faith in the process. You have to understand that that's part of that, that there's part of the process. Some people never internalize that those bad feelings are part of the process. So when they try to achieve anything, whether it's physical or a business or whatever they're trying to do, there comes a time where it doesn't work out well and they feel bad, they feel uncomfortable and they back off me.

You got to keep going. Yeah, that that lesson is a lesson of failure that you've got to learn through failure. But it also it's such a motivator because it feels so bad when you feel like if you lose a fight and, you know, I've lost fights, it feels terrible, it feels terrible.

But there's no better motivator to get you in the gym than losing a fight. There's no better motivator to get you to keep your fucking hands up, keep moving and and train correctly and fight correctly.

Perfect example. I get into the gym after I had been in the gym like ten years, like since boxing damages, some in gym training. I go in, I did all of the exercise that I just talked about, hitting the bars, jump rope and all this stuff running miles and miles a day. Get in the gym. I get into a sporting match. First time. First round. I'm spoiling a guy who a heavyweight at the time, I'm fighting a lightweight, I'm like 170, but at the time I was like when I wasn't really in shape, I was getting in shape.

So I'm like 190. I'm at 190. This dude is like two twenty five or something any taller than me, so you got size reach every day. Give me a ring. I'm thinking that. He's just in the rain to help me with my mechanics because I know this guy. We're friends and I'm thinking I've been with this guy since high school, thinking he's going to hit me. Work on my mechanics.

Ding, ding, this motherfucker, when I say this motherfucker, drug me, man hit me. And it do hit me so hard, man, he hit me so many times that it was two people in Ray. Aimé, boom, boom, boom, boom, ba ba boom and look. The punches were coming in slow motion, like Illah, like the punches was, I saw the punch coming, but I couldn't get out of the way, you know what I mean?

Yeah, you can see it coming, but you can't move. You can't get out of the way fast enough. So but I see the punch coming in. It looked like it's coming in slow motion is like de de de de de de de de da da da dah dah dah dah boom. And after that first round man.

Head to toe, I know you had this feeling before, but I just saw Hito. Can't even really get out of the rain fast enough. I don't want to take a shower, my family can't move. So. I go home. Talking to Madou, I'm like, yeah, man, his food set me up, right? He set me up. Because I'm not thinking I'm going to go into a real fight, I'm just going to just go out, yeah, move around a little bit, work on mechanics, they set me up.

OK. Now motivated to get him back. How old are you at the time? Oh, no, this is just I'm like 30.

I'm 28, 28. I want them now, I want them. I want to get them back. So for the next two weeks, oh, first of all, the very next day I saw here. It took them so mad and I don't want to get out of bed. It's five thirty, I normally get out there to go, right, and I'm thinking to myself. If I don't get out of this be. I'm never going to get out of it again.

I'm never going to go and fight this, too, so I got out of bed. And I when I went, I did and I ran was wasn't the best run, but I got through it. I work myself back into shape every day, I went back in and I trained harder, I Paul with Reggie Johnson, you know, three time world champion Reggie Johnson, Sparwood Reggie. And I'm doing this on the loadout don't know him, and it's in.

So he's doing it specifically when he's not going to be there. Yeah, so the same way you treat trolls.

I does it. Yeah. Yeah, I see. I see. OK, so.

So I'm I'm like. I'm training it every punch, every run, every sweat, everything, every lift, push. I'm thinking I'm might get this motherfucker. Get them, get them, get them. Get everything. So I'm calling him after a week. I'm telling him, hey, man, you know, let's do it again, and I'm playing possum. I was like, yeah, man, you know, can work out with me, man, because when I needed that man, I needed that, you know, I needed to work out, man, which, you know, because, you know, I got to get in shape, man, you know, and that's what I need.

Some puppeteer's here to mind you, after he. Drag me. Right after he dragged me, this fool got on the canvas and started doing push ups and door start doing sit ups and try to push and I'm watching this food, all of this stuff. Right.

So letting you know he's not tired.

Yeah, not tired at all. So I'm calling them, trying to beat them back into the ring. At first, he was like, nah, man, you know, I'm busy, this is, you know. So finally, I got him to agree. He's like, OK. How many weeks later, oh, this it's only two weeks. Kids, yeah, I play possum. He came away with something, Gattellari. Dame, I came out.

Looking kind of timid. But in my mind. I just got all this energy man, and I'm like up in a curious, so I threw a dummy out there. And he faded just like I thought he would. And everything was, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, just everything I think was connected.

So he's on the ropes like this. And I'm now pounding, I'm still pounding, not a guys come running, rushing into the ring like I messed up, so. After we break it up, they break it up. He's on the ropes, right, and he he get his sense as he's like, Yeah, yeah, I know, I know. Y'all set me up.

Yeah, I know you set me up. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll set it up to break it up right when I was going to make my move. Oh, no, I have to make a move on me like I'm being the brakes of this for some, we they broke it up right when he was about to make his move, so.

Some like now now you got your ass, take it like a man.

So I get on the Cavs, I start I said, so he's talking. He's just blocking. He's blocking me. So. He said something that was threatening. And. That's when it was not about boxing anymore. You know, so then. Ding, ding, fries shake on. And so they're going to say, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so so. Long story short, it's FU. Call the police.

Imagine having a gym fight in and somebody calling the police that that's a cardinal sin in any gym.

Well, not only that. What the fuck are the cops going to do? Like you were fighting and then you fought after you were fighting. Yeah. Huh. Yeah. So what he wants to do. Yeah.

Anyway, man, you know, the dude tried to push. He was trying to get a payday, but none of that, you know, so he ended up walking away with empty bag and. Pride damaged and totally disrespected because I thought he was a real caddy first, you know, because I seen him get out before. So I thought, hey, you know. Right. You know, do sadly.

But you were already famous then. Now that's. Yeah. And that's what he was trying to do.

He was trying to make a name for he was not wrote about my name. Rochow to get a name for himself, you know. Of course. Yeah.

Well when someone sees someone that's that prominent in that famous and yet you're still in the gym like they there's always if you're just a regular dude, there's always a little green envy monster inside your head that you've got to beat down. Most people can beat it down, but some people can. Some people let that fucker out of the bag, right? Yeah. Some people like they can't be inspired. They have to be envious. Some people can be inspired.

Some people can see a guy like you and go, wow, I want to I want to do what he's doing. Let me let me ask him what he did. And maybe I can learn something. Maybe I can apply it to my own life. That's what I would do. Well, that's why you're a winner.

Yeah, because I remember growing up there were guys who. Would see dudes in the neighborhood, they would see these guys with nice cars and pretty girls, jewelry, money, and they like. I won't let. Not something like that. They won't show girl right? They want your car, your money, your jewelry, and they're plotting to take it from me. Yeah, I would see it and I would use it as motivation.

To get it for myself, I was like, because all I knew, well, I'll always be struggling, you know, like I am going to make something out of myself. I'm going to get to this bag. I'm a get it, so I had that type of mentality. Well, this is what I want to know. Where did you get that? Did you model that off someone you knew?

Did you just figure it out on your own? I figured it out like trial and error, man, baptism to fire.

I know a lot of people fall apart. They have these great ideas. But then the reality of their environment overcomes them. And they never they never followed through with that.

And that could have happened to me, to Joe. That could have happened to me because I had to live. Keep in mind, I still had to navigate through all of this stuff while I'm trying to pursue my goals.

Right. So I thought that was some hiccups there.

That was some bumps in the road along the way. You know, I just got through it through sheer determination, luck and the grace of God.

I got through. Yeah, that was people that did less than I did. Who we walk in on right now, they imagine a day that God ain't never coming back. Right. You know, so. And I think that one of the reasons why I'm still standing is because my good outweighed my bad. You know, like I I was never really like a mean person, people thought I was me. I remember one time being at Wal-Mart, Wal-Mart.

I'm standing in line behind this guy. And he was he was with his girl, he was checking out, he had just checked out. I'm standing in line behind him and. The cashier says whatever that greeting is that they said, you know. Welcome to don't say well, what I say when yet when the greeting you when you first walk up is the generic greeting that they have, like, I don't know, welcome to Wal-Mart.

Not answer at the door. You've got to be a desert or plastic. No, no.

They they say something like, I wonder when you ready to pay. Yeah. When you ready to pay. Like, hello. Some like, you know, you know, how are you today or something like that. Right. And I responded and the guy looked back.

Will it mean I know that voice for me anyway, I mean, and he's like fanning out and his woman is like looking all bewildered and he's like, baby, that's will it be fun to get on? The main one.

So I was like, what?

I mean, one, what will be to me one bad me one.

You know, that's hilarious. But I'm like, man, you know, like I was like, that's how people really think. They think that I'm to be one in the group.

So I you know, it it gave me. A sense of of how, you know, people think about me, you know, who are on the outside looking here, most people.

Who don't know me, they just judge by the records. Well, they also think you're strong that to that when people see someone strong or if someone has to clip of you talking about what you want to do to Troll's and why you attack them and destroy them. Right.

People might say, oh, willis' me. Right, right. Yeah.

And I'm not a mean guy. No, you're not a mean guy at all. You know, the thing is, is that like I said, man, I just.

I'm just OK with hating people who hate me, I'm just OK with that, and I love people who love me. So that's the point people need to focus on.

I love who love me, focus on their point where about the other stuff that only that don't include you.

It got nothing to do with you.

Stop trying to think of other people, but people try to piece you together like a mosaic. They like to look at all the different things you do, but the things that concern them are the anger.

They concern them a strength like, oh, that's the nice part is great and everything.

But what if this part comes out of that anger? You mean part comes out? People get nervous, but I'm strength.

But I'm the guy to have on your team if that has to come out. Yes. You see, yeah, that's what I like. Like you look at like my career. Right. Geto Boys and everything. We have always we've always been champions for the voiceless, the underdog, the underserved. The. The dis enfranchised, we've always been there for those type of people, right? That's where we come from. That's us. So this is what fuels my fire.

I'm going to talk about the establishment. I am going to call out the guy that everybody is afraid of, just like I thought the guy that everybody was afraid of when I was in high school and middle school and elementary. I will fight the neighborhood bully that everybody else. Is afraid of outfight them. I go to war with him, you know, because I just refuse to be. Identified as anything less than a man has nothing to do with this so-called toxic masculinity.

First of all, let me address that. Please do. I don't think it's a such thing as toxic masculinity. You can't agree masculinity and you have femininity. Which one are you you know well, you want to do?

It's not toxic masculinity. It's just assholes. It's just like an asshole who is a woman is not toxically feminine. Exactly. It's just an asshole. Right? Yeah, right. Right. So, you know, you know how to do manage to do this type of stuff to us, man, to try to separate us and create division, this whole gender war thing and all that stuff. And that's another thing. That's a war that we cannot survive.

Right. We can survive a lot of wars. We cannot survive a gender war. No, impossible. Well, it's a stupid war, too.

Yeah. It's a very stupid war, man, because. First of all, who want to walk around with women like mad at women? You know, as a woman. Women. God, may God showed off when he made women he was showing off, maybe I made men had a whole bunch of dudes. OK, what do we do now?

Watched me work. What do you think now, my my little guys? Oh, God. Well, that's why they did this guy make you do this?

The problem with men and women is women that are unattainable and it hurts them. Those are the also, again, weak men.

The same sort of people that would be jealous of someone's success are angry that a woman is completely unattainable when they see a beautiful woman they know they have that woman has no interest in them.

They're their admiration or their their lust for her turns to anger.

Right. Because they're like I knew would do it. He was a nice guy, but he was an unfortunate looking fellow.

And as he got older, he became more and more bitter and then just angry towards women because he associated women with rejection. He always associated women with you know, they didn't want to have anything to do with him and they always made him feel bad. So in his mind, women make you feel bad is a very simplistic version. That's why a woman hater comes from a woman hater, is not a guy who does well with women who women like those.

Those guys very rarely hate women. They love women.

It's the dudes who associate women with rejection. Hmm.

And for some of them, you know, it's like they're just unfortunate. Like, you got to we all have a roll of the dice, you know, this is what you get.

And that's that's very true. Like when it comes to matters of the heart, you know, it's it's one of those things where if you're going to play this game, so to speak. You got to understand what comes with it, you know, rejection is part of the game, it's it's just as much as part of the game as acceptance, you know, love. Is part of the game, but also Haiti is you know, betrayal is just as much a part of the game as loyalty is, and all of these things are interchangeable, depending on the mood of the particular person at the time, there are no guarantees.

So. Everybody is not qualified to actually be in a romantic relationship because they don't have they're not. They don't have the emotional capacity to accept all of these different things, you have to be able to take a bit of, which is sweet in a relationship. Listen. I've had relationships where I've been. The guy that broke hearts and then I've had my heart broken, never broken a heart already, if I get my heart broken, broken, then if I'm a man, if I'm real, do if I'm true to myself, then I take my bitter with my sweet.

I learn. You learn that you take your bitter, which is sweet. And so. Yeah, I'm a human being, and I think that because she broke my heart, she was wrong because I came all because the thing about man, we give our all, you know, cut off all the holes, man, and then she can do me like this.

Oh, hell, no. You know, so we we lose it and then, you know, we start getting out of character and doing all kinds. Well, some dudes be in character and but but a lot of us, we get out of character because we can't accept we can't accept the consequences that that that are part of being in a relationship is the game that all of us play. That's the chance that we take when we go in it.

And when you understand that and when you understand that relationships are not guaranteed, no relationship is guaranteed, our relationships have an expiration date, sometimes by choice, sometimes by force. But there is an expiration date. And once you understand that, you you can respect the process. Some people can't respect the process, the process, meaning that, OK, she'll want nothing to do with me anymore. OK, I'm going here. I'm a crime hard go here and I'm a drink, you know, drink my troubles away, drink myself to sleep, whatever, and I'll do it as long as I got to do it until I can just stop thinking about her.

Whatever, you know, maybe I'll go out and, and go to the club and try to come up with something at the club just to help me do it. You know, I tell my falling in love just hit me through it, you know, just hit me through it. You know, maybe I grieve a while, but all of this is part of the process. So you have to respect the process. And when you learn to respect the process, you can actually get through these times when it happens and you get better at it.

You do get better and better at relationships. You do like everything else. Yeah, that's that's a good point.

You got to take those ls take, take the ale's man. That's important. But you know I was going to say that.

We was talking to a guy I don't know how we was switched to subs because I think I switched subject, but going back to what I was about to say about the speaking your mind thing and going, you know, speaking against, you know, the establishment, Geto Boys being that type of group, me being that type of artist, that type of person.

Oftentimes, if you're in America and you attacked establishment, if you say something about the establishment. And you're white, you're considered a rebel, hmm, if you do that and your black. You considered a racist or a radical right? So. I look at it like. I'm going to keep on doing what I do, regardless of how anybody may look at it, because I'm responsible. For what I say, not how you interpret it. Hmm, right, so that's the way I write.

Some people some people like the idea of. You suppressing your. Your thoughts are speaking out against a wrong doing because it makes them uncomfortable. Hmm. So me, I'm never going to, like, be that dude who. Not speak out against injustice to make somebody uncomfortable. I don't care who it is. Well, you know, I think would help you is just one of the things we talked about where in Houston, when I first met you, you should do a podcast because you people might have the wrong impression of you from little snippets of things like things you said today.

They might have seen snippets and things here that, oh, he's angry. He's mean. If they understood you more, if they heard you speak on things more, they would get a better understanding of the way you view the world and a better appreciation of your your ethics and morals, your values, and why you say the things you say and what you stand for. And there's no better way to do that. Yeah. Than something like this.

Like a podcast. Yeah.

Like I'm actually I'm actually I'm actually actually got a whole network that I'm pushing forward because, you know, we did speak on that before. But I'm going to actually do I'm actually actually putting together hold up that I'm shopping the network right now.

So you what do you mean by shopping like body by our heart, whatever, like other podcasts. But what about just with my what I'm doing it also. Right. I'm going to bring in other people with I'm bringing other people with.

OK. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Have you recorded anything yet. Yes I have. Oh beautiful. Yes I said elbel not available. Not yet. Oh so you think I'm putting it together.

I'm putting everything together and hopefully you know the the the the second quarter. By the second quarter.

You know, of 2021. Oh, you've got a long term plan. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Rick MediaMath, Rick Media. So, you know, I yeah, yeah, yeah. Executives that they're looking to go in a different direction of whatever they can to increase Foleo Hala.

Well, that's a good time, too, because right around then, I think things would be opening up again right around April. Yeah, that's what I think. I think once they start vaccinating people and people start opening up businesses again and everything gets back to I think we have a good shot of things being, you know, at least on the road back to normal somewhere around the spring. Yeah, my guess, my unqualified guess.

But I think whatever you do, whether you do it this way with this idea of pushing a network or just you doing it, you should do this. Yeah. Yeah. Because I think you have you have a very valuable mind, like the way you think about things. It's very valuable to people. You're you're calculated, you know, and I think people learn from people like you listen to the way you think things through and the way you look at big picture that's very valuable to people.

Yeah, I appreciate you saying that, man. I appreciate you saying that. You know, it is really like a it's like a boomerang compliment, you know, because that's the way I feel about you. Oh, thank you. You know. You know, you got to you have you want to. You got one of our greatest minds, you know. Period. So this is why, you know, you've been able to have the success that you've had, you know, and to be able to reach so many different people from so many different walks of life, you know, it says a lot about your character.

Oh, thank you very much. I'm just I'm a lucky moron. That's what I like.

I'm a moron and learned a lot of things.

It's a you know, there's a very it's a very rare thing, podcasting, where you have a platform where you could show who you really are with no one interfering. That's why I think you would shine at this. Yes. If you were doing anything else and you got like if you are a producer or an executive and then, you know, after this was over, the story about people going out and Robin cab drivers and kill Niblick, stop.

Really, I understand that's part of your past, but I just don't think it's a good idea that we leave that in. Right. So let's edit that part out. Right.

People people would want to change things or edit things or twist things around. That's not good.

What they what your what your value comes is from your honesty and the full perspective of your life.

You're not going to someone else would fuck that up.

They would get involved in it and got a radio show and some radio network. They would fuck with it. They would ruin it. They would get in there and get their greasy little fingers on everything and fuck it all up.

Yeah, it's actually happened before. You know, I used to do a show on it on the radio station in Houston and Speakman, it was really b late 90s and it was so big. People used to barbecue on Monday nights and listen to the show. One dude told me that his wife divorced him because she sent him to the store. To buy something, he must come right back and he sit in the parking lot and listen to the show.

Now, obviously he must do something else. And that power that that was like the straw that broke the camel's back. But yeah, he said as woman that was it. The woman who walked out on him after that. So, yeah, I, I had that going on and I was actually.

I was actually about to, like, take it to the next level, it was mighty nice and then once I put the numbers are seeing what was happening, I had a 15 percent share of the market, you know, and I was like, whoa, OK, we should do this five nights a week.

So I went to the station and told him about it.

And he was like, yeah, but we're not we're not a talk show station. We're not a talk station as we did. We're not a talk station. We're music station. And so.

I went somewhere else and did the deal, and when I went to this other place. They tried to change the message.

They wanted me to talk about the stains on Monica Lewinsky's dress every day, you know, it was a thing, you know, she had Konstantin's on it so they would bring it up to you.

They would say, no, no, no, no, no, no.

If it was in the news, like, I would talk about something that was in the news.

Right. But. I'm not going to talk about the same thing. You know how CNN does. Yeah. You know, or MSNBC or any of them, FOX, they just take the same thing and just tell the same story a thousand different ways. You know, they go get the janitor who knew you to say something. They find a guy walking down the street. Did you see anything, sir? No, I say you should not. Now, was it raining when you walk down the street or what?

You know, they just dig in trying to make the story out of something. And so they wanted me to talk about this in different ways. And I'm like, I'm not doing that.

My people don't care about Monica Lewinsky. They don't care about the cops names on a dress, you know, like they care about what's really happening.

I he's straight, you know, so. We had an amicable split, you know, so would they sit down, like when you would come to the office? They would say, Willie, this is what we want you to talk about. What would they do now?

What would happen is that I produce my own show, so. Look, I must have been doing something right. I had a 15 percent share of the market. That's huge in a major market.

Yeah, gigantic. So. I would have my own show me and me and me and my producer, you know, that I had work and we worked a show out and it's OK, these are the topics we'll talk about, blah, blah, blah.

We get on air and once they hear it, they go like. I think you can talk about Monica. That's that's a good story, people interested in that, that a lot of data like, you know, they can get that story anywhere.

Yeah. You can't get Willy anywhere, you know, you can't get what I'm talking about anywhere because people are scared of these topics.

They're afraid they're afraid to call out these people and say what's really going on?

They are afraid of that. I'm not so and plus, I like to do stuff that I feel. I'm making a difference in. I got to do something where I feel like I'm making a difference. I don't want to just make money. I want to make a difference. I understand what you're saying. So so I couldn't just do that. Yeah, I think quit. Yeah. Good for you. Yeah, yeah, well, it was it was too early, it was before before the time of the Internet, because if you had a podcast back then.

Oh man. Yeah, well, that's what you should be doing right now. Yeah. Because no one can tell you what to do as long as you stay away as long. Like one of the things that when I switched over to Spotify, we had to make sure that they didn't want to change anything.

I was very hesitant because I was and then I wouldn't sell the podcast. I would only do a licensing deal. But Spotify was adamant. They were like, I want you to do exactly what you're doing. We don't want to tell you who the guests are. I booked everything myself. I do it all myself. No one tells me what to talk about or what not to talk about. That's the only way I can do my show and be me.

That's the same thing with you is the only way you could do your show and be you as soon as you got some guy going. Well, you know Monica Lewinsky and that dress.

Right, that's going to that's going to fuck with your head. Even if you go and get the fuck out of here, then you have to think that guy out there wants me to talk about Monica Lewinsky. You don't even want that guy in your life. You don't want anybody there. There's no need. Should have is just you and a microphone and whoever you want to talk to. And that's it.

When that's kind of what I do want you to already. Yeah. So my YouTube channel is pretty big, you know, so like I'm like I'm really in that space like strong. So this podcast would be like an extension of that. Well, it should be both things.

The video version of the podcast should also be on YouTube too. Right, right. Yeah. And then listen, man, if you build it, they will come. It's not 100 percent. Yeah.

And again, as long as you're just you, that's what people want. As long as people know that it's coming from your mind, then it resonates with them. As soon as they feel like you're some sort of a concoction and there's a bunch of producers and writers and all these people tweak and they can smell it.

Oh, they smell it. Like if you like, they're used to it in certain places, like with late night talk show hosts. They're used to bullshit. Like if there was anything other than Imposer, they probably be nervous and confused. They wouldn't know what it was.

A late night show was a hello, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the show.

Yeah, it's it's bullshit, right?

That guy was talking to you like that in real life, you'd be like, who is this dude?

Right. If someone talked to you the way a late night talk show host talks to the audience, you'd be like, this is the weirdest shit ever.

The way the guy was talking to me, he'd be like, yeah, I do that voice again. You do that again with notes and shit and how you hear about this in the news.

You know, it's a weird way of talking. And, yeah, you know, I mean, I know they're doing a monologue and it's supposed to be just like stand up comedy. I get it. But even the way they talk to guests is weird.

It's like. So I heard you went to the zoo. Yeah. Tell us about the zoo, Willie.

Yeah, it's just weird, but we're used to it. We're used to that kind of communication that almost sounded like a little like Johnny Carson. I like Johnny Carson.

Well, he was original. There was kind of like but even Johnny Carson would say something like that.

I like like that. But I went to the zoo.

That was also I was set up at Community Pets and Pet Story.

Pets and Pets. Yeah. If you would go on those shows, they would talk to you beforehand and they would ask you what you want to talk about.

You'd say, Oh, I got this great story about going to a NASCAR race and like, OK, so you're like racing.

Yeah, yeah. And yeah. But it's either way, it's that method of communicating with people, putting together a show. It's like it's like smoke signals is like some antiquated shit that we don't need anymore. It's like Morse code, like you know how to do it that way anymore. Right. That was dumb.

Like cut. We'll be right back in five minutes. Like so you cut every seven minutes for a fucking commercial, right.

And then everybody goes to the like. No one. You don't have to do that anymore. This is a it's an antiquated way of making a program, of delivering information.

And it doesn't feel real when you're talking, whether it's I like when you sit in your car and you got your your phone and you're like, what's a family free game?

And you just express yourself.

There's no producers, there's no nothing. It's really deep. And that's it. Right.

That's what resonates with people, because people know that there's no one fucking with the message.

So whether they like you or not, they know it's you. If they like you, they like you.

They don't like something that a bunch of producers are putting together. They don't want that right. No one wants that shit anymore. The genie is out of the bottle.

People know, like, you know, when you see people talking with no, no, no filter, that makes sense.

Like you're always a regular dude. He's just like me.

When you see someone talking, like they're talking like a president doing that thing with their thumb and then like we're going to do is build this and build that.

You know, that's bullshit. Even if you like what they say, it doesn't resonate with you people in this day and age.

We're dissolving the boundaries between people people want. They want to know you're real in their right.

Yeah. And they can sniff it at Fox. Yeah, they can sniff it as soon as you tried one time, and they'll be, hey man, I don't know what the hell that was, you just did but oh in fact, they'll be like. He must have got paid. Yes, exactly. I've been accused and got paid quick. I've been accused, though he wants to get paid. Hmm, you have been accused of ducking subjects and trying not to have certain guests on, and right now it's not that Spotify has never told me anything and this is the crazy thing about it, like.

Do. You know me like, like, not like. No, no, no, do you know me? No, you, Fareed, you know me for real life.

So that trips me out when people say stuff like that, you know. Yeah. I hear that type of stuff from time to time, but it don't really bother me because these people really don't know me. Right.

This is always going to be a certain percentage, like the hecklers, like the people that are the trolls, no matter what, you're never going to get rid of those.

But the vast majority of people who tune into your Instagram page or your YouTube page, after a while, they fucking know you, right? They might take a week, might take watching you four or five times.

But they get it. They get it.

That's where the value is. That's where someone was like, hey, Monica Lewinsky, the dress, that fucking guy. He's never going to get it. They don't understand. Like, the more you do that, the more you water it down, the more chefs come in the kitchen, start throwing bailiffs into the soup, the more you're going to fuck it up, right?

Yeah.

That's the beautiful thing about the Internet is the beautiful thing about being able to do a podcast or a YouTube video or anything like that is the fact that this is the only time in history in human history that I don't want to try to make this sound any bigger than it is.

But this is the craziest moment in all of time, in all of the time where human beings have been communicating with each other.

There's never been a moment where a person can just talk into a microphone and instantaneously reach millions and millions of people and literally change the way they think about a subject.

There might be something that happens in the news and you will sit in your car and put your phone on and just express yourself.

And then that video will go viral. And when that video goes viral, millions, millions of people, the number millions like gets everybody knows it's big, you think about it.

But if you could see a million people in front of you, you'd be like, holy shit, I remember being real.

Came on the podcast once and he was talking to us about when he did Woodstock.

What was it like, 600000 people, like 500000 plus people. And he he showed us the video.

And you're like, oh, my God.

Like, you don't know what five hundred thousand people looks like to see this vast expanse of humans that's fucking normal.

Ten, ten football fields. That's a majestic football stadium. But that's normal for you feel you get that all the time.

You put up a video, you get that kind of shit all the time. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. That is a crazy moment in time. There's never been in all of human history.

Oh, man. Personally, I never thought of it like that. You do that. Oh, look at that fucking crowd. It's madness.

Hey, I'm going back in and ask for more money, man. Get more money. More money, man. So many people out there. I'm going to get more money. I mean, that crowd is fucking bananas.

Look at that. That's a half a million. So this podcast just does this podcast will most likely reach ten times more people than that.

So just think of those numbers, all the things that you said today, all the topics he touched on, the people that get to know the real you.

That's a lot of fucking people, man.

And yeah, and no one's interfering. No one's in the way. There's no filter. There's no producer. There's no no no executive. There's no network people. There's nothing.

There's just you talking and that's how many people can reach. This is a crazy moment in time. And this is what drives networks crazy that drives them nuts.

You ever get the idea that they're going to try to do something to try to corral it, like, you know, try to?

Yeah, I think they probably will. I mean, I think they probably would have if the blowback would have been so hard. I think they you know, they do certain things like certain controversial figures. They'll the platform you will they'll throttle you or they'll you know, the thing is, like someone like YouTube, they could kind of control like one of the things that happens they do is they'll stop things from trending.

You know, they can do that.

Like Kanye West was on the podcast and it reached how many people that reach.

Fucking some crazy number and it wasn't trending, and we'll we'll have what's trending and then you look at what's trending and what's trending is like 500000, 300000, a million in the country. One was like five million more like, well, what is what is trending?

Tell me what trending is. Then they decide what's trending. It's not really what's trending. That's fucking podcast was trending like crazy amongst actual human beings, but not amongst a little Alegría. They just decide they can do that with you. They can pull back and not suggest your videos or not hide things. They do that right. They'll decide they don't like your message. They decide you're not progressive enough. You're not liberal enough. You know, you weren't this.

You're not that.

So there's a lot of gatekeepers with social media and a lot of gatekeepers were certain.

But as long as the people can get a hold of something and share it, then you have viral responses and they can't stop that. And the only way they can stop that is by censoring you and platforming you. And I do worry. Sometimes things can get really like you think we made them too powerful.

The politicians or video. YouTube. Facebook, yeah. Instagram. They didn't even know it was coming. They didn't know that they were ever going to get this powerful.

Like I've had Jack Dorsey on the podcast, the CEO of Twitter a couple times. And I've talked to him about it. And he's like, we had no idea what we're doing because we thought we were just going to have this little thing where people would put up with their do it like it used to be the way Twitter used to be. Like at Willie D, you would say going out with the family to get some food. That's what people are do.

They would just like tell you what they were doing for no reason, didn't mean anything. It was just like, oh, getting some pizza. Oh taking a nap. Like that's what people use Twitter for.

And that's the social, political, it's top landscape, it's toppling the regimes.

I mean they're using it to share information. Rebels are using it to try to share information to topple dictatorships.

I mean, it's crazy what's going on with and it's doing all sorts of other things, too. It's breaking news. When news happens, you find out about it on Twitter long before you see it on CNN or any of the other news networks. Oftentimes it's used to, but it's also they can decide who talks and who doesn't talk. And they have a very set set like standard of ideas of what's acceptable and not acceptable. And they can decide, like there was a crazy moment during the election where they got a hold of Hunter Biden's laptop.

And there was some talk in there where Biden's emails were indicating that his dad knew that there was some standard shit that politicians have always done corruption, where, you know, they're going to pay him a certain amount and they have access to his father and there's some influence there. And and then there was some pictures of him like getting foot jobs from hookers and crazy shit.

A foot for Jonah Hill is a foot.

Well, the girl was laying on her stomach and with her knees bent and his dick was on her feet. Some crazy shit. But whatever, guys smoking crack.

Oh, OK. He was smoking crack. He was losing her job. Hey, yeah, OK. I got it exactly like he was doing a lot of wacky shit to do was on drugs.

But anyway, New York Post publishes the story and then Twitter bands in New York Post, Twitter blocked in New York Post from posting.

They couldn't post any more stories. They literally censored one of the biggest newspapers in the world.

It's it's I think it's the oldest newspaper in America.

And it was a real story is a real story, real laptop, real pictures. No one's denying the emails were real, but they just decided that this was whether it's hacked or whatever it is that this is going to interfere with the election. They didn't like it. So they decided and it was a giant dust up amongst the journalists and and people that are for the truth and for for sharing information like you can't do this. You can't tell people what they can and can't talk about.

It's not your decision. A bunch of nerds sitting in Silicon Valley somewhere can decide what people can and can't say based on what?

And then where does that end? It doesn't end because as soon as you censor one person from talking about one thing that you don't you might not agree with politically. The problem with that is that shit is a slippery slope.

And then people can decide they're going to censor more things and censor this and they're going to try to shape society into the ideas that they have and only let the information go that coincides with their ideas and their beliefs.

Yeah, that's happening now. Do you think they're going to censor Trump after he's.

I think they're going to ban them the day he gets out of office. Fucked you?

Yeah, I don't know. I don't think so.

I think it's too too blatant if they do that. But what he's doing, I think is dangerous. Here's here's what I think is dangerous. What he's doing by saying I want this and I won this big in a landslide. All that crazy shit is undermining people's ideas. Of the democratic process, it's all those people that a ride or die with him that believe him no matter what, whatever whatever percentage of his fan base that is, those fucking people will never trust the legal system again.

They'll never trust the judicial system again. They'll never trust the voting system again. That's what's dangerous about it, because this is not the first time he's done this either. You know, when Ted Cruz won the Senate, he was saying that Ted Cruz stole the election like he's been he's been saying that the voting is rigged forever.

Yeah. And the problem is it's a little rigged. The problem is he's not wrong. Totally. Like it's not zero percent. If you said, like, how much what percentage of voter fraud is not zero, maybe it's I don't know what the number is.

Well, it's not like no one just is. Definitely is. They is definitely less than what they say.

I can't say that I count the damn votes, but, you know, that's a problem.

I'm thinking like it's got to be less than a half percent. I don't know what they don't think is no way anywhere close to that, but I don't think it's going to make him win. But, you know, political duopoly has always been a problem in America. Huge. And so this is why, you know, we got to come out and know what what is going to be. But it's got to be something for the people because the people don't run the country.

A bunch of old folks in Congress runs the country, a bunch of people that's that that has job security no matter what. Yes. They run the country. And and even when it comes to those Supreme Court justices, man, they should not be lifelong appointee, appointee. No, they should it should be a limit. I mean, I'm thinking like at this rate and, you know.

Air for five days, no new flight, you know, for a fact, is there enough judges for that keep rotating them. I'm like, man, my run out is I just believe that. I believe it is, is too many people that don't put the people first. And I think if if we had people in Congress, we had people in local municipalities statewide, these officials. If these people put the people first. This country really could be great.

I think it would be I think I know it would be great. I'm talking about great. We wouldn't have all the the racial tension that we have. Because they wouldn't allow. I mean, that would be like a crime, like stealing, like no. You know, like there's no such thing as freedom of speech. But when you create public chaos, you create when you are going out there, you're creating unrest. That's a problem. And look how many people are here right now.

On either side, either on either side, Democrat, whatever, liberal or conservative, whatever, how many people feel safer today than they did 10 years ago? 20 years ago, 30 years ago, five years ago, one year ago. Not too many, not right now, not too many now everything's a mess, but but a lot of things were a mess even when Barack was in office, you know?

Yeah, but people I mean, the post covid. Yeah. Economy shutting down. That's when things get dangerous.

Well, what I'm saying is that if you take a Corvette out, you know, the trajectory that we were already on in terms of, you know, racial harmony is bad.

Have you seen that movie, The Social Dilemma? No, they talk about that.

They talk about the differences that in in in people's groups, whether it's Republicans versus Democrats and and ideologies and that social media separating us and it's forcing people to fight in these algorithms that they've created for YouTube and for Facebook.

All these algorithms are set up so that people argue with each other. They're set up so that people get upset. And the people that created these algorithms, they're talking about it now after they've left these companies. And they're like, I had Tristan Harris on last week or a couple of weeks ago. He was one of the guys who was there at Google at the time and he saw the writing on the wall. It's like this is this is going to lead to civil war.

But the way we all communicate on social media, we're more divided now than ever, right?

Yeah. And look, man, it's a major problem that. I don't see being solved anytime soon because. They've created an environment where. You get incentives. To create. Tension. People. There are people out there that get paid to to be race baiters, you know, this is a whole career. Yeah.

You know, it is because you get attention from it. Absolutely like it's a total lane for that, like and it's also easy. You could talk about. If you talk about bringing people together, what kind of corny? Now, I don't even care about that post, but if you get out now, you say something that's inflammatory. You know, I'm saying people go like. They respond going back to that algorithm thing. Yeah, the algorithms carry yeah, it's designed to do that.

I mean, they've figured out what gets people to engage, what gets people to gauge is getting them angry.

Yeah. And so it ramps up the anger and the more ramps up the anger, the more money they make. Right. It's all designed. The A.I. Artificial Intelligence is figuring out what upsets you and it's putting that in front of your face all the time. And the overall tension of the country has ramped up. And when you have two different sides, like the Republicans and the Democrats, this duopoly that you talked about, that accentuates it because it's not like 30 choices to pick from.

Like some countries like Holland. I think they have Holland has a lot of party. I think it has like seven or eight different political parties and there's no duopoly. So they have a bunch of different people with different ideas like, oh, I like this guy's idea, oh, she's making sense. And there's no like, we have to vote blue or we have to vote red.

That's a when you only have two teams like that, it creates a giant problem.

And that's all accentuated like everything else by social media in these algorithms.

And again, the people that made them, the people that created these platforms, they never saw it coming. YouTube was just going to be cat videos. It was just going to be here's my son playing football. Hey, here's my dog. Doing a crazy trick like this is my new car. Look at that. Pretty cool, right? That's what YouTube was.

Then along the way, it became all kinds of crazy shit that shapes the way human beings talk to each other and shapes the way we feel about the world.

And they didn't see it coming. They didn't prepare for it. There's not enough rules in place. There's not enough laws in place.

And there's no there's not there hasn't been a real study of what the overall impact of these things is going to be long term. They didn't see it. So when a documentary like The Social Dilemma comes out and if I mean, what did Tristan say? Got 39 million views within the first week. It's resonating with people. They're like, holy shit.

And they're realizing they're all addicted to their phones. They're addicted to these social media apps and they're addicted to getting angry.

You mentioned documentary, yeah. I got one of the coldest documentaries ever. Hip hop to death who? It's about how. These label executives. And radio execs. TV execs conspired. To derail hip hop, the positive messages that way in hip hop. Get rid of the group's. That had those positive messages and bring in more gun busting, really? Yeah, so I'm doing it with Deon Taylor and Roseanne Taylor. So it's not out?

No, it's not our we're producing it right now, but it be out at the top of the year, so it's exposing it.

What did they do? That was a meeting in California. Of. A bunch of executives, top executives. And these guys got together and decided that they didn't want the positive measures in hip hop, that that.

Arrested Development, you know, de la soul, the de la Soul, A Tribe Called Quest, Public Enemy got to go, really. But they were profitable.

They were profitable, but they wasn't good for the overall business of controlling. Black people. So they set out they they purposely conspired to change the message when you say set out to control black people, who's involved in this like.

Some very high up people, and this is one of those things that's going to be revealed in the documentary, like we are like we have the players, some of the players who was there in that meeting.

So is it can you tell me, is it just executives or does it have to do with government as well? It's a it's a bit of both. I can imagine it has to be a bit of both. Yeah, because the executive because they want to go towards what's profitable. But yes, if there's influence by government. And people, especially in intelligence agencies that have plans, this is one of those documentaries that people will tell you what? You bet.

Maybe we shouldn't have talked about it. No, I'm good. Well, maybe we should wait till it comes out. No, I'm good because, you know, I think it's important. I like the idea that these fools nervous right now, you know, I mean, this is the first time it's being heard. Nobody's ever spoke about this. You have this first documented, you know, all the players, everything. Yes, yes. Yes.

And some of the biggest people in hip hop are going to be, you know, seen talking about it to. You're going to see I mean, like it's it's going it's going to make a bunch of noise and some people going to get exposed.

When do you think this is going to come out? His top of the year. Top of the year.

Oh, so soon? Oh, yeah. OK, yeah.

We are where we will come back when. When it's on. Yeah. When it's on come back. Absolutely. We'll let it come out, come back or promote it. We'll talk about it. We'll talk about the reaction to it.

Absolutely. You know we're going in hard man. You know, because, you know, coming from that, you know, for me, the reason why I'm really excited about being involved in it is because I was there, why this meeting is going on and didn't know it. You know, like if I had known that meeting was going meeting was going on and these people felt this way. You know, I think I would have done something. I don't know what exactly, but.

I probably would have been more. I probably would have been more. More cognitive, you know, of my message, what I was going to say and how I was being received. Right. And even the orders that I did business with. You know, so it's like it's it's a very complex web of deceit. You know, for the whole purpose, the entire purpose of control and manipulation would have been really hard to get the word out back then.

Yeah, yeah, it would have been very I mean, we're talking about the biggest of the biggest people. Power, real power, no Internet back then, yeah, it's not like today where you could just go and, you know, the major stage networks, they wouldn't have cared, you know, they would have been able to stroke the check and because they played a part in it, too. So they wouldn't have they definitely wouldn't have spoke on it.

Yeah, but it was it's dirty, man, because you see now you see what happened to hip hop, where you see all this gun talk and, you know, you turn on, you see these videos and every video, somebody's got a gun waving guns. And even on social media, they're waving guns, you know, just sitting in the kitchen, sitting on the bed, you know, just waving guns and talking about killing each other.

And then you see when the killings happen, you know, I mean, we've got to take responsibility, you know, like I think everybody we had a point like we don't have a choice. And so anybody that may have even been involved in the past. And, you know, they got a conscience or they they think that they want an opportunity to get right, make it right. They can't be worried about was somebody saying, well, you did this and what about, you know, if you can if you can, you know, contribute to the change in the trajectory, you know, of where this music is?

You should this is you know, this is the first time that I think this is the first generation of.

Music lovers who are not going to get the best generation of music makers because a lot of great music makers, they don't want to make the music. They don't like it, they don't want to play this game, they don't want to they don't want to be in this kind of game. So what are we getting we getting a whole lot of dudes who were just mumbling and I to really be in this game when I was coming up. And I saw rappers rapping.

You know, it was people I was looking at, like Mao, you know, that's got to be good to do that, right?

People would say, but you got to really be good to be a rapper. And now you see it today. And everybody like I can do that. Right. You know, I can do that. You know, you don't I don't think that got popular.

What was that? Mumble rap? I don't understand it. It was part of the narrative. It was part of the conspiracy to destroy hip hop, to kill the message in the music, if we if we let them mumble and just say anything, ha ha ha ha ha.

The people that are pulling the strings.

So let's let them come on and sing, noting that and they can profit off of that.

And then hip hop has no message because, look, if they couldn't profit off of it, then it's OK. It ain't working. They would have changed courses, but they could, but they saw that they could way we could still make money. In fact, we can make more money with them saying nothing.

I mean, listen, this is documented, this is like there's there's documented. Yes, yes.

Listen. My partner in Ron. Brad Jordan, Scarface. He spoke on this a few years ago. He said that. You can't tell me that there's not a conspiracy to destroy. Hip hop. Look at the type of artist deciding look at the type of black artist deciding and look at the type of white artist deciding the white artist. While hip hop artists, most of them have a message in their music. You listen to most of the black artists, they just mumble and talk about anything.

So there's a high ground forcing.

They're enforcing that kind of hip hop. They're promoting it, yeah, and they're letting people know you go this way, you're going to make it, you go this way, there's success and money. But if you try to have a message, we're not interested.

Right? If you're black. But if you're white, if you're white, you are right.

Wow. Malik. You got to take my word, I believe it. Just listen. Well, I've always kind of zero understanding of the music industry, but I just wondered.

But just listen to the music. Just listen to the difference. Yeah. Go listen to some of the white artists that go listeners. Go listen to some of our any top white artist. Listen to those white hot, those orders and they listen to the top black artists. You know, you got some top black artists. That's a real good and got a message like the Kendricks and the Jayco and stuff like that. We all know who those artists are, but there are a lot of top black artists.

Ain't saying nothing. They mumbly ain't saying nothing. And people comparing them to Tupac out of all people.

Yeah, the Internet is. This sort of Wild West, when it comes to distribution, like you, if you are an artist and you have something that people find, that's good.

And you could put it out on the Internet the way you do a podcast. You can avoid a lot of these executives, can't you? I always wondered, like, what value can because executives have today. Well, that's that's what Toby Newdegate comes in. He's an artist out of Houston, he's independent, he's drawing crowds of four, five, six, seven. Now, there's a lot of guys have done that by himself, by themselves. He's totally independent.

That's seems to me to be the way to avoid this in the future, right? Yeah. Artists, straight artists to the people he's going artists don't fucking know.

Like what what good does a record executive do today? No one sells records.

Yeah, well well, the record executives still wield a lot of power and and and influence in streaming, giving you resources and putting in place. Like when. Let's say Joe Blow independent. Wants to be on the front cover of on the first page of Apple Music.

Well. Well. Universal has an artist, one of the top tier artists that they want to put on that same page. We think Apple's going to get it right, get a space.

Do they have influence?

But they have less influence on the used to have less influence, but they still have influence. And this is why they still call Meijers and they still make a lot of money. Yeah, and they still.

Have the power, you know, and when it comes to a war, it shows influence that they have and getting people. Considered for awards, and even when it comes to winning, you know, the people get more shows and stuff like that, people need their own awards.

People need to make award shows with no executives. That would be interesting.

They'll sell it out. They'll sell out, though, because the exact exists the big guys who just come and just offer a fat check. And most of them are not going to be most of them are not going to be firm like you was when Spotify came to you. You say, no, I'll do it. I'm interested in business and I'll talk to you, but I got to be able to do me on Spotify as defense.

They literally never even tried. Well, yeah, they didn't. They like the show as is part of the what?

You know what? That's good. That's good for them and good for you also because it's important, man, when when you have a vision, you got something that works and people see that vision and they say, look, man, we like you, we like you just the way you always think about being in a relationship.

Yeah. And, you know, a romantic relationship. And that's how she likes you exactly like you are.

Or the worst. Yeah. Someone's like, well he's all right, but I can change him. Right. And what I want. Right.

And then they get you in there under false pretenses and start manipulating you and shift you. And I want to change the way you dress. Really.

Oh, hey, you know, I'm hoping I'm hoping maybe what you look like then that's a simple thing. Doesn't change much. This man, we're already more than three hours in, is that right? That's crazy. That's how long you do it, Jimmy. Yeah, it's good work. So, yeah, it was.

I enjoyed it very much. So let's let's plan on coming back after the documentary comes out, we'll come back and we'll talk about that in this way. I can watch it and we'll we'll talk about the documentary.

Absolutely. In the meantime, I'm glad you're doing a podcast. I tell too many people, people get mad at me because I'm always like, you should do a podcast. But I say it because it's the freest form of expression I think the world's ever known. There's never been an opportunity like this where people can express themselves. And I know you've got a lot of shit to say. Yeah.

I want you to also, man, you got to come to my restaurant, man, when you come here. I would love to the station seafood. I'm in the station seafood I'm in. I we are. We are right now franchising. All right, put that out there. Yeah, yeah, if y'all want to be involved, go to I love the station Dotcom and you see our franchise information, but yeah, the station seafood man we kill in the game.

If you love seafood, come on out and eat. Break bread for real with your boy. Will it be get out of town in the house. Thank you very much. Thank you, Jack.

You really did. Ladies and gentlemen, good night, Nomoto.

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