Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

Are we rolling?

Hi. It's rolling. They just want to save the universe, and then they want to fuck everyone's wife. Oh, yes.

It always begins. The dimensional portal will open, and then it ends with, you can't fuck your wife anymore, but guess who can? Yeah.

What happens is first they start stockpiling guns. Yes. Yeah, it seems like cult leaders have to have guns because their faith in their ability to see the universe and all the good and everything is not quite good enough. You need an AR.

You need an AR to really get your point across.

You need maybe some flash grenades.

It is interesting. It doesn't feel like... It feels like I wouldn't do that.

If you were running a cult?

Well, I wouldn't fuck your wife and make you worship me.

You're a very nice guy.

I'm one of the nicest guys in America. You're a very nice guy.

I don't know anyone who doesn't like you, by the way. Is that true? Yes. I've never met anybody like, That guy's a dick.

Oh, that's really cool. No one.

I love that. Everybody likes you.

You're a nice guy. I like... Thank you. You're a nice guy, too. Thank you. Yeah. I have made that a mark on my life. I want to be a good guy.

Yes, it's a good thing to do. I work on it really hard.

Well, you see people, by the way, and you see that they've made a decision. I met Sting, and I go, Okay, Sting at some point along the line decided I'm going to be awesome. That's going to be my thing.

I'm going to do yoga every day.

Yeah, I'm going to come forever.

He doesn't come.

He doesn't come.

He holds his come. Yeah. He's like, One of these guys.

No, what I'm saying is he was so nice when I met him that he released.

Oh, wow.

Interesting. Yeah. I have it-So sweet. I have it at home in my office. It's a little jar of Sting come.

When he goes, he probably really goes. I think, what is the deal with that tantric?

That's why he said, Don't stand so close to me because he blasts you away.

The tantric thing, they're supposed to have an internal orgasm. They're supposed to absorb it internally. I'm too lazy.

Well, it takes time. You have to discipline yourself, and then you can come forever, I guess.

It seems like you're thinking about your come too much. That does seem like- To be spending so much time doing that.

A lot of time focused on come.

I mean, there's probably a benefit in it, but every benefit that you get off of something that's a difficult endeavor is a detriment to something else.

What do you think the detriment?

Oh, just your mental energy. Just your amount of your time, you're thinking about your jizz. It's fucking weird. I mean, it's like, I mean, I guess you could say that about a lot of things, though, right? You could say that about people who bodybuild. You could say that about maybe you're thinking too much about one thing.

Well, I guess that's a In a way, that's what this book that I just wrote is about. It's about these little- Show me your book.

You wrote a book, dude. Congratulations.thank you very much.Thank you very much. I'm always very impressed and also very proud of people who write books because I know this is a fucking task, man.

It's an endeavor. It's one that I like. A lot of standups really don't like it, and they feel like it's homework. On stage, I do a lot of crowdwork. That's my thing. And this is the creative opposite of crowdwork. It's not just your material. It's like mega your material. It's like you're a monk creating a thing or whatever. You should write a book.

I have thought about it many times, and I had a deal to write one once, but as I I was writing it, they were trying to get me to write it like stand up, and they wanted me to write it in a way that was funny like you'd be on stage. How much laughs would you want per minute on stage? Which I don't really think about even stand up that much. I just try to... I cut out the bullshit. I edit things, economy of words with bits. But I don't think how many last I have per minute. They were very specific about it. And then they said, how about this? Why don't you just transcribe your stand up. And I was like, listen, I have a very different idea of what I want to write than you do. So I'm going to give you your money back. I gave them the money back and I said, I'm just going to... If I'm going to write something, I'm going to write it on my own. And I did for a little while, then I stopped. But it was a lot of it. It was just like, I only have so much time to write, and I would rather write about ideas that I'm going to do on stage.

But I do have an idea about my time. I've been working on it a little bit lately, so I'm thinking about actually going forward with this. It's about my time when I was in my really early 20s and I discovered pool halls.

Oh, yeah? I saw the two pool tables. I didn't know you were a big pool guy.

Yeah, I'm obsessed. If I'm for my empty my brain time, I watch professional pool matches.

Is that right? Yeah. Oh, interesting.

You like those tricks? A lot of them, I watch them with... No, I hate that shit. That's bullshit.

That's what I was going to say.

That's what I was going to say. It's cool. It's cool that you can do it, but I don't care.

Do you like The Hustler? Oh, it's a great movie. That's a good movie.

That's a great movie. That's a great movie just as a movie. But the Color of Money as well.

Aren't they connected? Yes.

Same guy, Walter Tevis, who also wrote The Queen's Gambet. Oh, interesting. About that amazing chess player. She was an orphan. That's right. That's a great series. That series is really good. But that Walter Tevis guy was amazing. The Hustler is really like a psychological drama as much as it is about pool.

Yeah, I saw it a long time ago. I don't quite remember it, but I remember it that it's great. Yeah.

I could literally say every word by heart. This pool hall that I used to hang around in White Plains, New York, they used to play it on the television all the time.In.

The pool hall?In.

The pool hall, yeah. My friend Steve, who was the guy who ran the desk, who ran You administered, gave people the balls, assigned your tables and stuff. He used to just put that motherfucker on every time we were there. We'd never get enough of that.

So what was your thing? You go into the pool halls in New York. How old were you?

Well, I was 20. When I really started playing, I think I was 23 or 24, somewhere around then. And it was just me and my friend John, who was also a comic. We went into this pool hall just for fun. And we were just bored during the day. Well, let's go play pool. Neither one of us knew how to play pool. We were terrible. We'd played a couple of times. Then we just stumbled into this pool hall that had this insane array of characters, all these people that were criminals and hustlers and homeless people and people who lived in flop houses and people who were fucking insane gambling addicts that would bet on raindrops coming down a window pane. They would bet on fucking anything, man. They just wanted action.

And you were teens walking in there? What's that? You guys were teenagers going in there?

No, we were about... John's a little older than me. I think I was 23 or 24, somewhere around then. It's like, well, yeah, like 90. So, yeah, I I was probably 23. I just remember thinking, this is a whole world that I didn't know existed, this weird bachelor culture. Apparently, it emerged really in America in the early 1900s. In the early 1900s in New York City, there were hundreds and hundreds of pool halls, hundreds of them. They were filled with these men that were disconnected from society. A lot of them had returned from wars. A A lot of them had gotten out of prison. It was during the Depression, there was a lot of illegal activity, and people did whatever the fuck they could. These men would gather in these pool halls. They were some of the wildest people I've ever encountered in my life. I watched a guy who had just gotten out of jail play chess just with words, just saying where the pieces moved with a 16-year-old kid who was a chess genius.

He wasn't even moving No, there was no pieces. He was just saying this to this.

No, there was no pieces.

Oh, they were playing mind chess?

Mind chess. Oh, wow.

I was like, so- So that's just some Commander Data shit.

These are exceptional people that just happen to never plug into regular society.

What's like that dude in Malcolm X's autobiography, the guy that he ran all the numbers in his mind and he never forgot a single one? And Malcolm X said he could have been a mathematical genius or a statistical professor or whatever, but instead, he was a hustler. He used that genius to be on the streets.

There's some people that have genius power that they apply to an art form, but they could have applied it to anything, like Jay-Z. Jay-z doesn't write any of his lyrics. If you read Jay-Z's lyrics, they don't seem ad-lib. They seem really well structured and written and funny and sharp. There's so many of them. How? How are you remembering all this?

That's why people call me the Jay-Z of Comedy. You've heard that before. You've never heard a person not say that about me. I haven't heard it yet, but I believe it. It's coming down the pipe. It hasn't gotten here yet. Do you know there's a A pool hall in LA, by the way.

Really? There's almost none when I left.

There's one in K-Town that you go there.

Okay, that makes sense. A lot of Koreans play pool.

Yeah, you walk in, and you walk into one of them, if you're white, and they're like, Uh-uh. You're like, What? I want to play pool. They're like, Uh-uh. Next two doors down. They're allowed to do that. They're like, Uh-uh. Well, they do whatever they want. They have their own rules. Then you walk down, and that's where the white people are playing pool. But it's the same owner.

Oh, that's hilarious. But by the way, you cannot complain. No one will listen.

Yeah, nobody gives a shit.

If you're a fucking white guy and you can't get into a pool hall, and they have a pool hall for white guys, like, Shut the fuck up, dude. There's robberies going on. I got no time for you. People are shooting people.

The LAPD. Why are you whining? I was rejected access to a Korean pool hall. It feels very wrong.

Yes. I want someone to intervene immediately. This is horrible. I am a white male.

Maybe if you work your way up through the pool tables in the white one, then they'll adopt you into the Korean one. You can start playing them.

If they know you, maybe, they're probably gambling. That's probably what a lot of it is.

I would have-Oh, right.

The word pool comes from pooling money together. The game is called pocket billiards. It's not called pool.

That's really interesting. So it was just a gambling game for the people that had returned from- No, it was a game, right?

I think all games eventually evolve into gambling. People gamble on basketball all the time. People gamble on fights all the time. Like, fighters will gamble against their opponents. People gamble. They like to gamble. It makes I think it's more exciting because now there's money on the line as well as pride and everything else.

Are you allowed to bet on fights?

I am not.

You are not allowed to?

I am not allowed to. Now.

When did that happen?

It's a recent rule that came about because apparently there's an allegation that one of the UFC trainers, I want to be real clear about this because I actually like this guy a lot, and I think he's a super talented trainer, and I do not know if this is true. I won't even say his name. But one of these trainers was apparently aware of injuries and then informing a group of people online who are betting. So they were saying, Hey, this guy's got something wrong with him. He's not going to win this fight. And then all the money would go on the opponent, and then they would rake it in. And this happened, allegedly, on fighters that he was training or people that he knew.

It's like instead of stock trading.

It's similar. Yeah. It's fishy also because it gives the possibility that fights or dives. When a coach is betting against their fighter or giving other people information against their fighter, if that happened, I don't know if it happened again. I just want to be real clear. It's allegedly. If that's the case, that's It's next door neighbor to a dive. That is the last fucking thing we want in mixed martial arts is fixed fights, which is weird because it's owned by the same people that own WW now. It's just crazy.

They've had a good week. It's a great Yeah, it's a good week to be in the WW.

Yo, dude, that Vince McMahon is wild. That boy's out there.

I couldn't get through the text messages. I started trying to read them, and I was like, I don't want to read. This is poison.

But the thing is, when I See that dude with his shirt off? He's 80 years old. He's got a chain around his neck. What are you shocking me with this information? Don't you think it takes a lot to get that guy going?

You're saying he needed to send all those text messages to get aroused at that age?

I think he probably needs a a lot just for stimulation. Listen, he's a billionaire. He's been running pro-westling for fucking decades. He's world famous CEO of this giant fucking multinational company, pro-westling company. He's also in pro-westling. He gets out there and competes. He does it or performs, I should say.

At a certain point, I guess if you're that through the looking glass of reality, you become a heel in life. Life is heel and everything is a match. Yeah.

If you're going to be really successful at putting together pro wrestling, probably be pro wrestling all day long.

You got to stick with it. Yeah.

Stay in it all fucking day long. Don't go read Nietzsche at the end of the day. Don't be reading Carl Jung's thoughts on flying saucers. Get the fuck out of here. Drink beer and go, Fuck. That's what you should be doing. You're on the road. I want you to Rick-flare it until the fucking wheels come off.

They do come off, too.

Well, yeah, on almost all of them. The only one who hasn't is The Rock. The Rock is in remarkably really great condition, obviously huge and massive and muscles and everything, but mobile. He can do things. We worked out together.

That's interesting. I wonder because he also seems like the most... He's one of those dudes who's got what you're talking about, genius level. He could have been anything. Sure. He's got one of those mega IQs feeling like.

Well, he's got a mega discipline. That's what he has. If he applied that to intellectual endeavors, he would be a mega genius. We want to think that they're not connected, but I think they are. And I think a Michael Jordan or someone who gets that good at basketball could get that good at anything. It's just they don't apply themselves in that area because I think it's just exceptional people.

Well, there's that weird idea, and apparently this has proven that the difference between a World Championship runner and the number five is less than a second. Their speed, right? I mean, the difference between the Olympian and the guy that doesn't make the podium is just infinitesimely small. Then the reason that the person wins is because they believe. It's not even a physiological thing. It's like a confidence thing.

Unless you're running against Usain Bolt. Right.

We'll take him out. We'll take him out.

They won't give a fuck what you believe. Because then there's genetics. Genetics are real, too.

Well, genetics is probably, I would guess, is what gets you to the stage in the first place. It gets you on the track.

It exists intellectually, too. There's boundaries. I have limitations. I have certain limitations intellectually. At a certain level, I just check Sure. But I am friends with some insanely brilliant people that scare the shit out of you. If I talk to Eric Weinstein, I'm like, Are we even the same thing? What are we? We're barely the same thing.

You know when you really see that genius is when they start talking to you in a way you'll understand. You go, Oh, so you wrote that book that I can't even comprehend, but you're also conversationally able to help me?

Eric doesn't even try. He doesn't even try with that. He leaves you behind.

He does sometimes.

I try to tell him, You got to help us out here. But it's just because that's how he thinks and that's how he communicates. If you're going to talk about comedy to someone who doesn't do comedy, you'd probably just start talking like a comic. This is what we do. This is how we do it. I can't hold your hand too long. You're 40 years old. Just explain how I do it. Either get it or you don't get it.

On that pool thing, though, when you walked into that pool hall and saw, Bam, this is another universe, to me, that's the experience of my life over over again. That is what the book is about, is these momentary portals into another universe where somebody taps you on the shoulder and goes, Walk over here. It's like Luke Skywalker. He's this weak, powerless kid on Dantouine or whatever. Then all of a sudden, obiWan Kenobi goes, Look, there's a whole other universe here.

Will you show everybody your shoes? Because I think those are Luke Skywalker shoes. That's what I was going to say.

This is bullying, Joe.

I love them. I couldn't remember the name of the planet, though. When you said Dantouine, You think these are Dantouine shoes?

Yeah, for sure. These are cool. Joe came in and almost liked them. I felt pretty good about that.

They're unusual. I love that you wear them. They look great with white slacks or tan slacks. Are those white or tan?

This is so close to a compliment.

It's a compliment. You have a certain style.

They're the most comfortable shoes. Chain out, too.

Look at you. Chain out.

Yeah, always. Chain out all day. If I'm coming to Joe Rogan, I'm taking the chain out. Let's go. Let's freaking go. Let's fucking go. I say, Let's freaking go for the kids.

Yeah, let's Let's friggin' go. Let's frigging go, guys. What's less offensive, frigging or freaking? If you're around an old lady.

I think freaking is more fun for an older lady. Right.

It's not offensive at all.

Because she's an old freak herself. Maybe. She might just be an old freak herself.

She might be an old prude that hung in there.

I've never understood the concept of censoring your sofa an older person. They've heard the thing.

Right. But the idea is that every-They shot Nazis. That is true. But that every generation gets more and more desensitized to bad words.

Oh, yeah. That's fair.

Which is 100% true. Yeah, I could see that for sure. My kids say things that I would have never said in front of my parents.

In front of you? Yeah. But you're also... You're you. So you've created a persona where swearing is... It'd be funny for you to be uptight about swearing. It is funny. I bet you did, though, when you had little kids, right?

No, I never was. My wife was a little bit, but not bad. And I was like, Listen, we have to just tell them that you can't say these words in front of other people, but they're just words. The only thing... Words are a sound you make, so I know what you're thinking. It's all it is. To make words good or bad is fucking stupid. But there's a lot of things you're going to learn that are stupid in the world. But here's the rule. But around the house, they'll use them for funny, and it's hilarious. It's like you're raising comics because we all talk like comics. They'll talk shit. It's fun. Totally.

I had a conversation with my daughter the other day. I sat her down. I go, Okay, honey, you're funny. And with great power comes great responsibility. I go, You're going to have to figure out how to where the line is. Because people who are funny Take it from me, walk through the world offending people because they think they're being funny, and they've gone a step too far in personal interactions. That's your job now.

It's also like when you're doing that, people have to understand, why would you have said that? I didn't know I was going to say it while I was saying it. Completely. There's a thing that you're doing when you're creating, specifically when you're adlibbing, where if you're on stage, you're adlibbing. You are literally like, you've got these missiles that are coming into silos, and you're like, launch it, launch it, launch it. You're not even looking at the missile. It's like your mind says, maybe you can connect that to this, go. Sometimes it's just like it's a dud.

Sometimes you're up on stage and you go, Oh, that was the end. I wish that missile destroyed it. I shot myself. It destroyed the village and everybody in it. I've definitely had that experience. But yeah, there was that moment on my crowdwork album, Crowdsurfing, where I heard myself when I was listening back to it, I was ripping one rift, and in that Riff, switched back and did the better rift. That's a pretty... Speaking of the way the brain works, that's a honed brain that comics have.

Well, you've done that exercise over and over and over and over again. So you get super comfortable in that pocket of crowdwork. Big Jay Ocerson is amazing at that.

One of the best, yeah.

He's one of the best ever at that. Andrew Schultz is as well. They're just so comfortable. There's a fucking hilarious one that Schultz just put out. He's talking to some guy in the audience who brought a date, and the date turns out to be a trans woman. It's just hilarious. But fun, light-hearted, positive. It's really cool. It's very skillfully done. The whole audience loved it. It was like they loved it.

It was great. Well, that's how I think of crowdwork when it goes really well.

Everybody's having a good time.

Yes, it's like a gift. It's like a gift to the crowd because they know in their mind, This moment will not be... This was for me. This was a gift this comic gave me tonight, and it will never exist again, except in TikTok form. Hopefully, it'll go viral a million times.

Forever.

I always think about that when everybody's blowing up on these crowdwork clips is like, how many magical moments. But there's something beautiful about this, too. How many magical moments you offered on stage in the pre-digital upload everything era where you're just like, it was just momentary. It was just an offering to that moment. There's something really beautiful I love that.

I think that's like it's important. I think the artificial reality of digital life, there's certain people that want to fucking film everything. They want to film every conversation they have. Look, I'm here with this. Let's put this on the grand. Will you tag me in this?

Stop. It's a wild experience. You got to live. I saw a guy the other day. His thing is he goes to fine dining restaurants and screams at the top of his lungs. That's That's his career.

Oh, my God. Did you see the guy that got arrested that was just dumping shit on people?

Now that I respect.

He dumped a whole bucket of shit on some guy that was on a train. Just shit. Down his back. Yeah.

And then what he said, It's a prank. It's like, No, we're past that.

Yeah, he was a kid. I think we were talking about it. I said, I think it might be bioterrorism because human shit is really dangerous.

That is definitely biohazard for sure.

Yeah. But humans are gross. Our fucking gut bacteria, if that gets in a cut, if human shit gets in a cut, you better wash the fuck out of that thing.

Talk about going viral.

What?

We're going viral. This joke is landing exactly where I wanted it to.

Viruses. Yeah, literally.

Please don't write in.

That's where a plague comes from. From- That's the early days. A lot of it was terrible hygiene and terrible sanitation and no running water. So people were just shitting the streets. They were shitting in buckets and throwing it off the street. There's human feces everywhere.

Do you know why people think perhaps the Jews didn't suffer as much in plague other than conspiracy theories that they started it during the Black Plague?

There was a conspiracy there way back then that they did it?

I'm pretty sure, yes. I don't know where that rumor would have come from.

How did they survive it?

Jews, when they eat a meal, every single meal with bread, always wash their hands. It's a part of the ritual. It's a ritualistic thing. You wash your hands before you eat bread. People didn't really do that because people didn't know about germ theory. They didn't understand the correlation between washing your hands and eating. Jews would always wash their hand before every meal. That is how, apparently, they sidestepped some of the ravages of the plague.

Do you think that a lot of the religious rules, like washing your hands, it has to be based on some ancient understanding of where diseases come from? Think about no pork, right? Right.

The trickanosis.

It's ubiquitous in porcs. In pigs. In demporks. In pigs, in pigs, in bears, in mountain lions. They all have it. It's like a giant percentage of bears have it, a giant percentage of pigs have it, especially wild pigs. So that would prevent you from ever getting that. Let's just say, no one eat... Don't cook it to 147 degrees. I don't know what the fuck that means. I don't know when the right way to cook it. It kills people. Let's stop eating that. And then shellfish. Same deal. Red tide. All sorts of other bacteria that you-What about mixing linens and wolves or whatever? That's a weird one. But the shellfish one, people die of oysters. I just read about someone dying from a raw oyster. It's super rare. I still eat them.

Yeah.

Which is a really stupid thing to do. Why am I eating oysters? If they can fucking every one out of a million people gets whacked by an oyster.

I did not know that.

Yeah, somebody died just recently. Now, I'm rethinking my oyster consumption.

What am I doing? My kid She's a live sea urchin. She's more adventurous either than I am. Yeah, I love it. I love it. So straight out of the carcass.

Damn, that is adventurous.

It's moving a little bit.

That's my favorite sushi. Man dies after contracting vibrovolnificious bacteria from fresh oysters in Texas.

It's right here. Oh, shit. You're going to... No, you're good.

The consumption of raw oysters at a Texas restaurant led to an untimely death of a relatively healthy... Relatively is a weird word for a dude in his 30s. What are we talking about here? It's relatively healthy. What are you trying to say?

It's a lot of editorial from USA Today. It is relatively healthy.

I wouldn't say- Hold on, Jamie. The man contracted a bacterial infection known as Vibrovolnificius.

He's my favorite techno DJ.

It sounds like a good one from Germany or somewhere that thrives in warm coastal waters. So it's like local bacteria?

I think you're good, though, Joe. If he died, and you said it's one every millionth oyster, he ate the oyster.

It's probably more than one every million. Oh, look, the guy lost his toes.

Oh, this is not good. I do not want fibrovoltaic vulcanophaxinus.

Is it a flesh-eating bacteria? Those are weird. You hear about those in the news every now and again. Fresh flesh eating. It is a fucking flesh eating bacteria. God damn it. You hear about those.

I don't want one. No. That's my official stance on this. I heard about a kid that ate a slug as a dare. You read that story?

Yeah, he became paralyzed in Australia.

Super brutal.

Oh, horrible.

And then you start, I warned my kid, I go, Don't eat slugs. But it's like she's going to do some other terrible thing that I can't think of. Right.

You never can protect them fully, nor should you. That's the unfortunate thing. It's like they have to experience a certain amount of falling down. It's part of the process.

But I did tell her, Don't eat slugs.

Don't eat slugs.

The other day we were on the beach, though, and my neighbor had a lobster trap out, and he took out his lobster trap, and he was undoing it. And there was this undulating piece of seaweed I go, I think there's something alive in there. We shook it off, and it was a full giant octopus. It was the coolest. My kid reached in and grabbed the octopus just like it was her friend. She was like, Baby octopus, my friend.

They will bite the fuck out of you.

That's what We found out. Every octopus is Venomous. She didn't get bit. Every octopus is Venomous, and most of them can't kill you, but every one of them has a beak that will fuck you up.

Yeah, they're all beak.

But he was very cool about it.

Do you know how they kill them when they catch them? No. They bite their heads. Who?

Who they?

Fishermen.

They physically bite them?

Fishermen physically bite their head right where the brainstem is, and then they change color. That's how you know they're dead.

They become pink?

They become white. When you see an octopus in the wild, have you ever seen how well they can camouflage themselves? Yeah, totally. Fucking insane. Yeah, it's crazy. Texture, everything. They can look exactly like whatever the fuck they're near, whether it's coral or rubble on the ground. They literally blend in. It's insane. It's amazing. But when you bite them, all that shit goes away.

You like meat? Yes. Do you have any weird feelings about an animal at a certain level of intelligence? Yes. Like, octopus to me-I don't want to eat a monkey. Well, a monkey, yeah, that's very intense.

Yeah, that See, watch. He's going to bite the octopus. So this guy caught this octopus, and he's going to bite it. See where he bites it? And then the thing immediately goes. He bites it right where the eyeballs are, and then it immediately dies.

This is the system by which you get octopus at a restaurant? Is just some guy biting the brainstem of an octopus?

I do not know, but I think this is just individuals that are sport fishing. They're doing it for food. They're just getting that. Octopus are delicious.They're.

Smart, though, aren't they?They're.

Fucking too smart for me. It bothers me.

I feel like you're eating an alien.

I feel like I might stop eating octopus. There's animals that are really... Pigs are really fucking smart.

Right. Pigs are smart.

They're really smart.

That's where it starts to get weird. It gets weird.

So are crows.

Crows will bring you gifts, and they'll warn you that the cops are coming.

There's this guy He found this crow. It was in the water. Might have been a guy. Might have been a woman. I'm not sure. But anyway, there was some TikTok video about it. This person found this crow, picked it up with a paddle. It was in the water, like drowning, put it in the boat, and then took it home and nursed it back to health. Then the crow would just hang out with her.

Yeah, they were loyal.

They were petting the crow with a brush, and she put the brush back on the shelf. Then the crow flew over the shelf, grabbed the brush, brought it back, and said, No, no, keep petting me.

Really, it's really cool. There's a whole mechanism on how to get the crow to like you, too. Really? You start doing a certain... I think it's leaving it gifts, and then it will go, Oh, this person gives gifts. Then it will start bringing you gifts. Then if you keep going, it will start attacking your enemies. Yes. Your neighbors will come over and be like, What's up, Joe? And then the crow will come down and attack.

Yeah, this guy, Dan Flores, who was on the podcast before, had essentially trained a crow by leaving it food every day. And he would go on a walk with his dog, and the crow it would hang out with them.

Would it fly? It would fly next to him? Oh, yeah.

Fly right next to him and hang out with them and plop down, and it would go looking for him. I liked him.

I had a friend who was a falconer. Do you know about these guys? I'm sure you do. Do you know how they catch him? It's crazy. No. Basically, they catch them in the wild. They leave some food out and they catch them with a trap in the wild. But then they take them home. This blew my mind. They take them home and they put them in a dark room for multiple days. And they walk into the dark room with one of those weird gauntlets or whatever that are made by the same people that make my boots. And they have just meat on their hand. And they just sit there for hours in a dark room with an owl or a Hawk or whatever. And over the course of a week, the bird will get closer and closer and then start nibbling and then start eating. And at that point, it's yours. And now it's your Falcon. Whoa. Isn't that crazy?

So it just rewires their brain?

Yeah. To be like, this guy's got the food. So now when he lets me go to hunt for the rat or whatever, I'll come back to the gauntlet. Look at this crazy trap they use to get him. Every Falcon that a falconer has is caught captured in the wild. Really? They're not like bread or whatever. They just capture them, and then they do this weird thing where they train them, and then they let them go after a few years of service.

When I was in Scotland, there was this lady who was... She trained a variety of birds, but she trained owls and falcons. She had a Falcon there, and she said, The problem with the falcon is, when they let it go, it just fucks things up. It just finds another bird and kills it. Every time she lets it go, find something and kills it.

It's just like an... It's violent.

Oh, it's the worst. It's a monster. It's just a killing machine. It doesn't matter if it's hungry or not. It's just flying around looking to fuck things up. She said the owl is the second dumbest bird in the wild.

Really?

Yeah. Isn't that crazy?

How did they get the wise thing?

Someone got a good PR agent, and they just got ahead of it.

Owl, baby, it's me.

Owls are dumb. She said, Owls are dumb. She said, The really smart ones are like, falcons are very smart, crows are the smartest. But the only thing's dumber than an owl is emus. Emus are dumb They're so big.

You'd think that they would have big brains.

They don't have to be. Right. They just, Shut the fuck up. Give me the food. Right. They're so big.

They are freaks. I would say freaks of nature. They shouldn't exist, the emu. Have you eaten emu? No.

Have you?

No, but I think people do.

They eat ostrich. I've had ostrich at Fudruckers.

At Fudruckers, they have ostrich?

Fudruckers used to serve an ostrich burger. It was really good. It was good. It was fantastic.

What's the best game?

I think elk. I think elk is the most delicious. That's my favorite. But there's a lot of really good ones. Axis, deer, which are very prevalent here in Texas. They're from India. They're really delicious. Bison. Bison is very delicious, but they're very lean. If you're going to eat just those things. You got to make sure you get an adequate amount of fats along with them.

You eat moose?

I eat moose.

What's up with moose?

Moose is delicious. Yeah, moose is delicious. Seems greasy. No, not at all. No, not even a little. What's the worst thing? No, they're very lean. You get a funky pig. You get a wild pig.

I've met one of those in my life.

I shot a wild pig that was funky. A havelina. That one was odd. I ate a havelina.

When you kill an animal, do you feel bad?

I don't feel good. I feel good that it's successful, but you don't feel good when you look down at the dead animal.

It's like a guilty thrill?

Well, you're thankful. You're thankful that... It's a very different connection with food when you've been there and harvest it and when you actually go in the wild. So it's one thing if you have a farm and you raise a cow and you kill the cow and you eat the cow, you have a connection with that food that's very different than me who just goes to a supermarket and buys a steak. It's another level of that when you're going into the woods with a bow and arrow and you're climbing mountains and you're going 8, 10 miles a day.

It's like you swoop into their universe. A hundred %. You walk through the portal into their universe and just blip them out of it.

I'm not the only one there, and that's when it gets scary.

You mean there's other predators?

You meet bears out there. There's real shit out there that is capable of killing a deer with its face.

Right. And a hunter from behind.

Yes, a hunter from behind. And a stealthy hunter that you're not going to hear until it's too late.

Have you ever felt that?

I've seen them. I've never been stalked by one. The biggest one I ever saw was actually inside of a car. I saw inside two years ago. I was with my friend Colton, and he goes, Look at the cat. He stops the truck, and it's at dusk, like right when the sunlight's going down. And I see these glowing eyes under a tree, and we're about 30 yards away from it. And I have binocular. So I my binoculars to look at it up close. It was fucking terrifying.

Mountain lion.

Huge one. A huge male, like 170 plus pounds. Just massive muscles. The muscles were so impressive. His forearms were huge.

They're so scary because they don't attack you until you're not looking, too. You'll never know. They'll just be on top of you. You think you could fight one-off? No. I'd be done for it. You would. You got muscles. You could like... Nope. You scream and yell.

I could barely fight off a house cat. A regular house cat will probably fuck me up if it's motivated.

Dude, I got a German Shepherd.

Those are great dogs. They need a lot of work, though.

Listen, I don't know if you've noticed the last few years, things have gotten a little bit weird. And I was like, okay, I'm on the road a lot. I know what I'll do. I'll get a German Shepherd, and it'll protect my family. But then I entered into a negotiation with Natasha because she didn't want a hard core one. So what we ended up getting was this giant fucking bitch. I mean, it's just such a little clown. It's like the DoorDash People come and they're wearing a ski mask. It'll be like, well, Ashante, right this way. Come on in. Oh, no. I have all of the work of a German Shepherd with none of the-Is it a male or a female?

It's a male. Is it fixed?

Yes. There you go. That's my problem. Yeah, that's a big part of it. Damn, I should have kept those balls.

I didn't do it. Especially when they're young. If you get them really young and they're fixed. I had a dog that was fixed when he was a baby, somehow or another. I got him from someone else, and when I got him, I was like, he's already fixed. He's so young. It was too young. And he was fucked. It fucked his development up. He had no testosterone as he was growing, which is just not good for a male dog. There's a lot of arguments that, look, it's irresponsible to let your dog have a bunch of puppies, and then So if you're letting your dog out and your dog is fucking other dogs and getting them pregnant, getting... Yeah, that's irresponsible. But my dog's not fixed, and he doesn't go out. If he interacts with dogs, it's my friend's dogs. We play in the yard. I take him He doesn't get loose to go fuck a dog. It's not irresponsible.

Does he ever get to fuck?

He's never fucked.

Oh, that's cruel in a different way.

I'm afraid he would find out about it, and then he would never shut the fuck up. Like, Dad, where's the girl? Where's the bitch is, I don't know if you know, this has been great.

Do you know about this sex stuff?

This is my favorite thing, and I don't even know about it until now, and I'm seven.

That's funny. That's a different meanness, though. You let it keep the balls, but you keep it from ever having sex.

Well, they can't not come. If they're having sex, the girl can get pregnant. It's not like humans where it's funsies. There's no funsies in the animal world. That's why deer only have sex once a year.

Is that true?

Yeah. Well, they have multiple times in this one time period in a year, but it's called the rut.

We should make a dog condom.

It's not going to work.

No, we should put it on. If you love your dog and you want it to get laid, slip it on.

Well, you can give your dog birth control, I guess. Really? Yeah, but that would probably fuck the female dog up. It fucks women up. Right. Birth control is terrible for women. They've been telling women to take birth control forever. Death control does all sorts of wacky things to the way you perceive people. I have a friend and his daughter died. She had a stroke because she had a blood clot that is apparently one of the side effects of smoking cigarettes and taking birth control. It's possible to have that happen. And she died that way. She was 17 years old. It's a tricky medication. I mean, It's great that women got their liberation sexually, and every time you had sex, it wasn't like you're going to have a baby that you could choose when to do it, when not to do it.

Is that a fuck your perception up, too, having a kid at 16?

100%. Listen, there's arguments for both sides of it, and they put some girls on birth control for their acne, to control acne.

I've heard about that.

It's not saying that birth control is entirely bad, but if you're a woman and you have to take this thing in order to not get pregnant, and the guy doesn't have to do shit. If a birth control pill was invented for a guy, and I think they did come up with one, but it radically lowers your testosterone.

It'll be like my dog. It'll just be like a really sweet little bitch.

Yeah, it probably kills your sperm cells. It's probably the only way it would work. The way to kill your sperm cells would be either to ramp up your endogenous testosterone to where your body doesn't produce testosterone anymore, so don't produce sperm cells, or you could kill it, kill the sperm cells, kill the testosterone, and kill everything. They turn you into just a feeble version of yourself.

Well, that's why-Tired all the time. That's what I came on this podcast to talk about is mandated vasectomies for teenagers, teenage boys. And I think this will go over really well.

Yeah, as long as you can reverse it.

Are we the ones that can be reversed?

Yeah, we could be reversed.

We're good. Women are not good.

Obviously, women get their unisors removed. With a dude, they can reverse it, but it's not 100%. You might have to do it a couple of times to make it stick.

People are getting into that now. Vasectomies are having a moment right now.

I already got one of them.

Is that right? Yeah. I mean, good for him. I get that. If you're going to be single and you don't want kids, why not?

I think Stan Hope did it, too.

That's like a psychic permanent condom and with no condoms.

Yeah. Then if you have a wife, she doesn't worry about birth control anymore.

Yeah. I would not. That would terrify me.

Yeah, it's a tricky operation. It's a dick operation. Every time you're operating on your nether regions, you're like, What?

It does sound like a terrifying proposition.

They're going to put you under and operate on your balls.

And then you wake up and they've castrated you. Things went a little bit wrong.

Yeah, it went sideways.

Unfortunately, you don't have balls.

The doctor had a psychotic break and just started chopping.

Well, you know about that story of the guy who amputated He did the wrong limb? Because apparently they write in Sharpie on your limb, like this one, this one-off, and then he did the wrong one. It's funny. You remember that it's just a person up there.

I know a guy whose wife had the wrong kidney removed.

Oh, that's crazy. That's a death sentence.

It's like, what the fuck did you just do? And the doctor did not want to admit fault. The whole story is so crazy.Was.

The kidney that was remained?Doctor didn't want to apologize.Oh, that's crazy.Yeah.

Kidney remained was fucked.It.

Was a bad kidney.Yeah.

That was the one they were supposed to take out. They took out the good one.

Would you ever donate a kidney?

Yeah, I would just save someone's life. I know people that have done it.

Yeah, it sounds really intense.

Apparently, you can survive on one kidney. The liver is the craziest one. We were just talking about that the other day. If you donate half your liver to me, if you and I have the same blood type, within six to eight weeks, your liver will have returned to full size and my liver that you donated, that you gave me, will be full size as well.

It feels like they could cure liver cancer by just doing elective half a liver in a lab growth.

And then we just- Well, they're going to eventually be able to do that, I would imagine. They're already looking into some reconstruction of organs, like to be able to create a completely new heart that's made of your own tissue so your body doesn't reject it because your body rejects other people's tissue. So if you gave me a heart, I would have to take these crazy medication to make sure that my body didn't reject that heart.

Have you heard that? There's a documentary about that guy that was putting artificial tracheas in people? Mm-mm. Oh, this is good or bad. It's horrifying. It was this genius doctor that was putting in these He had this breakthrough that you could just replace a trachea with a plastic tracheal tube and bathe it in stem cells, and it would eventually, I don't know what, meld into your body's DNA a tissue and just become a part of your body. But he was making it up. Oh, God. It did not work one time. Oh, no. But he was just flying around the world, this medical master. They're going, this genius, the genius of our time, winning Nobel Prizes and stuff, and just people were dying left and right because they were just putting a fucking tube into people's throat instead of a tracheia. Oh, my God.

Oh, my God. How many did he do before they got him?

It was like a half a dozen or something like that. Yeah, it was really not.

So he's just in his He was a crazy person.

In this weird way? I mean, it's what we were talking about earlier. He was a genius, but he was like a mad... He'd become a mad genius where he was- He just blew a fuse. He blew a fuse, yeah. He thought, I have an idea. There's no way my idea won't work if I just do it enough times. Oh, yeah. Macarena. Simultaneously, he was hustling a woman like he was pretending to be married to a journalist in America, and then he was already married in Italy. He was like, had two different Madman thing going on at once.

He's a wild dude. Swedish Appearal Court convicted Macarena on Wednesday and sentenced him to two and a half years in prison. That's it?

That's pretty crazy. Sweden. Once there's a wall up where you're a medical professional, I guess there is a little bit of an arm's length. I mean, these people did know they were doing an experimental surgery and that they could die, I guess, but they didn't know that it definitely wouldn't work.

But they obviously decided that he did something wrong. They put him in jail for two and a half years.

Yeah, this guy was a wild one. Jesus Christ. Compulsive liar, spending wild stories and manipulating a woman who became his fiance.

The appeal court ruled that two of the three patients who died did not require emergency intervention. Oh, my God.

That was the part I forgot. Oh, my God. This is the most fucked up part, Joe. It kept failing on sick people that needed new tracheas. So he was like, What I need to do is find a relatively healthy person that has a tracheal issue, like a collapsed trache or something, where they're still walking through the world with relative health, like the oyster guy, and I'll put it in them, and that will prove that the thing works.

Oh, my God. What a psycho. Is that him? Yeah, that's him. It looks like a psycho. It looks like George Clooney if he got really fat and did a lot of opium. What a psycho.

Yeah, it's crazy.

To do it on relatively healthy people just to prove that it works?

And it completely did not. He literally went on a worldwide quest to find somebody with a fucked up tracheia, but that wasn't and found someone like that, and it was cosmetic for her. She's like, I'm tired of talking like this, and I have to have a scarf on, and okay, I'll do it.

She didn't like the way her tracheia looked?

No, I think she talked weird. She had issues, for sure. But But it was not life or death.

Oh, my God. Anyway. There's some psychos out there, man. Some of them happen to be doctors. Just because someone went to medical school doesn't mean they're not crazy.

No, I listened to that Dr. Death podcast. Do you ever hear that? No. It's about a guy who was a neurosurgeon surgeon, and he was just like... It wasn't clear if he was like Dr. Mengela, wanted to kill people or if he was just a stupid person that was just slashing in people's bodies. It wasn't clear what he was doing, but it looked like when he would open someone up, he had no idea what he was doing. He just was stapling an artery to a bone. He just like...

Just for fun?

Nobody really knows. But he was a real surgeon. He was a real neurosurgeon. Until I heard that podcast, it would have never occurred to me to go to a surgeon and then look him up. I'm sure you are savvy enough to do that, but I would have just been like, You're a doctor. You must know things. Okay, open up my brainstem and get in there.

Yeah, the first time I got surgery, I had no idea anything about the doctor's credentials, and I don't know anything about him now. I don't even remember his name. He put me under and opened me up and drilled holes in my bones.

Yeah, now I heard that I would always Google.

I would go deeper. Yeah, man. You can't be entirely sure that someone's not out of their mind.

Well, there's certain There's certain professions like that where you assume their degree is the thing that makes them competent, but you forget that it's just a person.

Here's the guy. It says, Of the 37 patients, Duncht... How do you say it?

Duncht? Duncht. Duncht. Yeah, David Duncht.

Duncht Operated on in Dallas over about two years. 33 were hurt or harmed in the process. 33? 33 out of 37.

That is a bad record.

Four people skated clean. Some people woke up paralyzed. Others emerged from anesthesia to permanent pain and nerve damage. From nerve damage. Two patients died, one from significant blood loss after the operation and the other from a stroke caused by a cut vertebral artery. Wow.

Yeah, he was just slashing. He was in there just like, mashing it up, like preschool stuff.

Look at this one. One patient, a childhood friend of Dunst, went in for a spinal operation with someone he trusted and woke up a quadriplegic after the doctor damaged his vertebral artery.

That was his childhood best friend.

Oh, my God. Turn him into a quadriplegic. Jesus Christ. There's psychos out there, man. Is that him?

That's the guy that plays him in the TV show? Yeah. That's Josh Jackson. Let's get a real photo of this boy up here.

There was another doctor, Death. There was a guy who created Execution Machines. There was a documentary about him. It's a crazy documentary because at the end, he gets hoodwinked into becoming a Holocaust denier.

Oh, I know about this guy. Yeah. I keep tabs on all of them.

Yeah. I think he's gone now. But I think at the end of his life, he was somehow or another brought to Auschwitz or Yes. One of the other concentration camps?

I remember this guy.

Yes. And he said that this could not have been- It's impossible that Zyclon B could have...

Yeah, I saw this documentary. Yeah. Oh, it was Errol Morris' film. Yeah, I remember this guy.

So what was His assertion claims he was invited to other American prisons, expected design modifications to electric chairs, possessed no relevant formal training or education, and claims that he was told that those who did possess such qualifications would not provide advice due to their opinions on death penalty, fear of reprisals, or that they were squamish about the subject. What was he? What was his background? Just let it hear. His career continued with other state prisons seeking his advice on execution facilities other than electrocutions, such as gas chambers, hanging, and lethal injection. How do you say his name? Luchter? Luchter? Initially professed his ignorance of other methods of execution. The authorities seeking his advice reminded him that others with more qualifications refuse to help. Luchter claims to have taught himself on these other methods of execution and provided advice that was used by the authorities to improve safety and efficiency. So it was fall when Lutchter claimed to have been sought as a witness for the defense for Ernest Zundel, one of the Nazis, in Canada, for spreading false news by publishing and sending material denying Holocaust overseas. Luchter was asked by the defense to travel to Poland to visit out...

No, maybe that guy wasn't a Nazi. Maybe he was a Holocaust denier. Ernst Zundel. So what is the trial? Spreading false news. So he's just been accused of spreading false news by publishing and sending material denying the Holocaust. So he's being tried for that. And Luchter was asked by the defense to travel to Poland to visit Auschwitz to investigate whether there had been operating gas chambers for executions at the camp. So at first examination, Luchter felt that using poison gas in a building with the internal and external design of the building is currently on display the site would have caused the death of everyone in the area outside the buildings as well as inside. The film shows videotape footage taken in Poland of Lutcher taking samples of bricks in the buildings to take back to the United States forensic science labs to determine whether there was evidence of poison gas in the material. These samples were not identified as to where they came from. Lutcher states that the laboratory reported that there was not any trace of any poison gas at any time. Right.

I remember this.

After his conclusions were disproven and negativity publicity ensued, Lutcher lost his work as a consultant to American Prisons. So his conclusions were disproven, so they must have found gas. Look, there's a lot of evidence that those were gas chambers. That's a crazy thing.

I think I remember that this documentary, because he starts saying these things, it's very similar to social media clout. He starts saying these things, and everybody starts to, in the Holocaust denial community, starts like, him up and going like, This is our guy, and he gets more ideological as a result of it. Yeah.

See, he didn't know what the fuck he was talking about. This is one of the answers. It's all a question of concentration. Once the gas is released into the atmosphere, its concentration decreases and is no longer dangerous. Also, HCN dissipates quickly. The execution gas chambers in US prisons were also ventilated directly into the atmosphere, so it just dissipates. Furthermore, the argument would hold for the extermination chambers. It would hold for the extermination Chambers, it would hold for the Delaussing Chambers as well, and one would have to conclude that no Delaussing Chambers existed either. It's just he doesn't understand how it dissipates. There's probably no trace because there's no trace left. We're talking about he's doing this 70 years later.

I think that's what the documentary was about, was that this guy quickly got in over his head. The minute he said one thing, they were all like, We love you, and he became this figurehead of that movement. He became an expert. Yeah, exactly. People saying that they know stuff, which is the disease of our time.

So that's the other doctor death. They can have a duel of douchebags. I think the guy with the surgeon is going to win. He seems more evil. The other guy seems to have ego got a hold of him or just stupidity.

The Erl Moros guy. Yeah. It is a wild thing out there to think of going under the knife and then waking up and realizing that the... You heard about this? There was a I believe, I can't remember which hospital, where the women were going in for fertility treatment. They were not being given OxyContin, they were being given Saline. They would be under general anesthesia, so they couldn't stop it. So they were doing basically surgery, but you were paralyzed because you're under general anesthetic.

But you feel the pain.

So you feel the pain the entire time. And they found out why. It's because there was a drug addict who was in charge of dispensing the who was just taking it and being like, That's mine. Or it was fentanyl. Oh, my God. It was fentanyl. Oh, my God. And she was just dripping the fentanyl into her bag and taking it home. Oh, my God. Yeah.

Wow. Oh, my God. Jeez.

That's a rough one. Then they would come up and they would say- What a fucking evil people in this world. They would say, Oh, I felt so much pain. They would go, No, no, you're fine. It's like, No, no. I think I just went under general surgery with absolutely no pain killer at all, but I was paralyzed. Oh, my gosh. Imagine that.

Well, imagine when they used to do it when you weren't paralyzed.

Or they put a piece of leather in your mouth and just take your limb off. Just saw your leg off. Dances with Wolf style. They would give you ethel alcohol, right?

They would give you booze. They'd give you whatever the fuck they could give you. It's not going to help. What do you think the garlic and the vampire connection is?Garlic.

And vampire?Yeah.

Where did that one come from?

Yeah, I'm not sure.

Isn't garlic a very potent antibacterium. Don't they say to take garlic if you have stomach flues? I think that's one of those homeopathic solutions. That people say take garlic if you're sick.

But why vampires?

Maybe vampires are connected to the idea of what a vampire is, is not knowing what happens to people when they get sick, not knowing what happens to people when they get a plague, blaming it on someone else, blaming it on someone evil, blaming on a curse, blaming it on someone who came back from the dead, and why does someone have anemia? Why is someone losing all their blood? You could blame that on a vampire.

Yeah. I guess if you were extremely ill, it would seem like... But you're still walking through the world, it would seem like you had been possessed on some level.

Well, I've said that about people that get addicted to drugs. I've met people and they weren't addicted to drugs, and they got addicted to drugs. It's like, oh, my God, that person got bit by a vampire.

Totally. Yeah. I think about that a lot. Not the vampire thing, but about people who... And I was on that road, by the way. That was going to be my life. But people who decided to get high instead of do anything else. It's like my life will just be getting high, and that'll be it.

Yeah. Well, there's certain ones, the ones that get physically addictive. They're terrifying. The Oxy's, the cocaine, that shit, where you're physically drawn to it. You need it to get well. The heroin people that need it, they're sick and they need it to get well.

That is wild stuff. Does this even scarier thing, which is that it lowers your brain's ability to create its own... What's the word for it? Serotonin? Serotonin. And so, meth becomes this cyclical trap where you can't actually... It's not just you want to get high. Your brain can't make you happy without it. And it takes a long time to rewire your brain in that particular way. Wow. Heroin is the one that everybody overdoses from. And meth is the one that people go mad from slowly because their brains get weirdly atrophied in that way.

One of my friends from the pool hall was a crack addict, and he would go get crack, and then he would have to come down by drinking 40 ounces. So he would get so fucked up. I took him a couple of times to bad neighborhoods so he could cop. But then we'd always have to go to a liquor store and he would get a 40 ounce. Of what? Old English, something like that.

You were a 40 guy?

Well, I drink them. They're You're fucking crazy strong. If you want to make sure that people never have any ambition and don't leave, which is probably what they do. It's exactly what I would do if I was evil.

The way I would choose what alcohol I would drink is if a gangster rapper rapped about it, I would drink it. So gin and juice. Old English. Old English. St. Ida's. That was my drink of choice. Mickey's was for white boys. I didn't mess with that. St. Ida's for the real brothers in the room. And Carlo Rossi because E-40 I had a song called Top of the Line Wine Carlos Rossi. And then Mad Dog 2020 and Cisco. Those were the things that I drank.

Mad Dog 2020 is always a popular one. Sure. Yeah.

For the youth of tomorrow.

Yeah, they're fucking strong, man. And Johnny used to drink them. He used to down them when his eyes was all wild. He would be sweating. But he was also a genius. He was a guy that could do complex math in his head. You could say to him, just throw a bunch of numbers. You could have a calculator there. 400 divided by 6 minus 10 plus 500. You could keep going. And he would go four, six, two.

It's crazy.

It was weird.

You could play piano. And he'd go small crack after that. That's why.

He's a genius pool player, too. One of the best pool players I've ever seen in my life. Professional-level pool player.

I feel like I spent my youth with people like that. I got sober at 15. Do you know that? I've been sober since I was 15. I went to rehab for the first time when I was 13. Holy shit. And then and then finally got sober at 15 in a young people's meeting, asking for help, and everybody in the room was 5-10 years older than me in a young people's meeting. That was the beginning of my life.

Holy shit. Were you a latchkey kid?

Oh, yeah, definitely.

Yeah. So you just got let out and you were just out on the streets listening to rap, drinking 40s.

I was a Latchkey kid, and my mother, Oakland Public Schools, my mom was deaf. My dad was deaf, too. And he was a born again Hasidic Jew. When my parents split, my dad got super, super religious. We come from crazy. I mean, a hard core version. It's not like what you It's like, do you see Unorthodox?

No.

It's a show on Netflix. It's about a really hard core sect. That's the sect that my family- Is it a documentary series? No, it's a show. Oh, it's a show. It's a scripted show about the sect of Hasidic Judaism called the Satmar. That's the world that my family Where my family was from. My stepmother was Satmar, and my family came from a town called New Square, New York. Do you know anything about that? No. New Square is really interesting. It's like a village up above Munsey, which is already an unbelievably ultra-Orthodox place. But Munsey is nothing compared to Skvare. Skvare is like the hype... Women don't drive in New Square, New York. This is New York City. I got cousins that have Eastern European accents, and they are third-generation American. Which borough is this? Well, my family lived... Monse is in upstate New York, and my family lived in Brooklyn, in Seagate. Do you know where Seagate is? It's like Pasconi Island at the tip of Brooklyn. That was a Satmar neighborhood. Kids in that neighborhood, we used to play dodgeball games where it would be the ultra-Orthodox kids versus the actually religious kids. That's how intense things were.

An ultra-Orthodox person that you looked at and went, Wow, that's a real Jew right there. We were basically the Gentiles of the community. Holy shit. It was crazy. I would be nine months a year in Oakland, regular public school, listening to Too Short, fly back to my dad's house, get driven to the Orthodox barber shop. They put a yamuk on me, slacks, and I would go cosplay as an extra from Fiddler on the Roof for six weeks a year. That was the pre, before rehab. I think that's the reason that he fell into the rehab so heavily, into the drug so heavily, is because everything about me made me feel like I don't fit. I'm a hearing person in a deaf world. I'm essentially a Gentile in a Jewish world.

That is so crazy that you were considered a Gentile.

They didn't really consider me.

But you were not as religious as them.

Effectively, might as well have been. There was something wrong with you. Dude, there was a local rabbi when I was getting close to my bar mitzvah, and he was very nice. He was very nice, and he noticed that I didn't know Hebrew. These kids spoke, and I'm not kidding, these kids spoke Yiddish as a first language. That's why they had the Eastern European accent. My uncle, he was first-generation American, so he sounds like an American because the first-generation of Americans say, Go fit in. But then by the time he had kids, they're feeling their comfort in the United States, and they go, Don't go fit in. Go to a seminary where we learn Yiddish. My cousins sound like the extras from Dr. Jivago, and my uncle sounds like a New Yorker. It's that weird. They speak Yiddish as a first language. I would bring an English prayer book to school, and people would be staring like it was a scarlet letter, like there's something wrong with me because I had an English book.

Because you couldn't speak it in Hebrew.

Because I didn't know Hebrew. It's getting towards my bar mitzvah. It's my 12th year or 11th year, and I don't know the a bit. And this rabbi sees that I'm struggling. And my dad was deaf, and so he had this bizarre relationship with the community where he was one part accepted, one part almost mascot in a way that was a little insulting, but he was loved, whatever. The rabbi said, Give him to me, and I'll teach him Hebrew. This is like the late '80s, early '90s. You could, at that time, ask for some alone time with a child, and they'd be handed over, no questions asked. So I go to his house, and he starts teaching me the Hebrew, the alphabet, basic, elemental. I mean, this is like a Talmudic scholar teaching me the ABCs, right? And I am struggling. I can't get it. And he goes, Don't worry, don't worry. He goes, Don't be embarrassed. Hold on. Shmuli, schmuli, come Come, come, come, come. And his son comes into the room and he goes, Do the English alphabet. This is an American kid. He goes, Do the English alphabet. And the kid goes, Oh, no.

A, B, G. And then he slaps me. The rabbi slaps me on the back and he goes, See, he's stupid in English. You are stupid in Hebrew. Everybody's stupid. That was the energy. What a sweetheart, right?

That's a good way to approach it.

Yeah, he was willing to humiliate his eldest son to teach me to love learning.

That is funny, though. The kid doesn't know the English alphabet.

I'm sure eventually he got it, but this was-Maybe not. Maybe not.

Maybe not. There's communities in this country that exist generation after generation where they only speak one language.

No, it's like they made Wakanda in Brooklyn. That was the vibe. I was in multiple Wakandas, too. I was born into the deaf Wakanda. Imagine that. You're being born the enemy. But I'm a member of the deaf community. I think every deaf person would say that, that I belong. But I also was the enemy. I was the hearing. Why do they What's the meaning of the hearing as the enemy? Well, that is a complicated question. It's because there has been a lot of enforced oppression on the deaf community from the outside. The story of sign language is really fascinating. 300 years ago, there was no sign language. There was only the sign. If you were born, 90% of deaf people are born into a hearing family. That's just the way genetics works. Most of the time, you don't have deaf family members. If you were born 350 years ago into one of those families, you just didn't have language. You weren't given the gift of language, which is the thing... I mean, think about how much language plays into your own life, Joe. Speaking and everything you know, every thought process you is mashed through the filter of language.

And in that situation, you'd be born into a family and you had zero language. You would have a gesturing system that you'd created with your dad to be able to say, Pass the potatoes, and that was it.

You couldn't say how you feel. You couldn't say what you wanted to do.

You couldn't even think about how you... I mean, you could think... I don't know. I've never experienced that. But language is the thing that unlocks reason. It's the thing that unlocks culture, and people were stymied from that. But if you were born lucky enough to have genetic deafness in your family so that you and your sibling were both deaf, then the two of you sitting together could create language, a language of two. You would, back and forth between two siblings, create a family sign system that would enable the both of you learning from one another to create a language and enable you to reason and think and talk about how you feel, even if it was just with one person.

You couldn't communicate with the outside world.

But at least you could communicate with yourself and with one other person. The The difference between an isolated deaf person and a pair of siblings is the world. It's freedom. It's everything. So one day, a French priest walks along and sees two deaf sisters signing back and forth to one another, and he goes, That's language. Prior to that, deaf people weren't even considered to be linguistic. They weren't even considered to be capable of reason. But he goes, No, I know what that is. I'm looking at language. So he goes to these sisters. His name is the Abbé d'Epey, and he says, Teach me to sign. Somehow he tells them, like teach me these gestures to them, teach me to sign. They teach him to sign. His thing was he wanted them to take the catechism. He wanted them to be able to go to heaven. He realized, deaf people are linguistically capable, but they can't get into heaven unless they can take the catechism and confess their faith and take communion, which makes sense if there is a God that God wouldn't allow them into heaven based on the fact that they couldn't speak. He's like, What do I...

My hands are tied here, bud.

You have to say it.

They teach They teach him, and he teaches them back French. Then he starts to gather the deaf people from around the world, I'm sorry, from around France, and he creates the first school for the deaf.

He teaches them French in sign?

In sign, that's right. Because French Because sign language and spoken language are not the same. A lot of people think that. I speak American sign language, but people think, Oh, it's a translation of English. It's not. It's his complete own language.

I did not know that.

So much so that The way that he would fundraise for this school is he would do a traveling roadshow where he would take his star pupils around France and around Europe, and they would be at an exhibition hall. A person in the audience would ask a question. He would say, Oh, Joe, do you have a question for the deaf person? Then you'd ask them some French question like, What degree of suffering can be born by man? Or, How many creams is too many creams for a brie or whatever. He would take your question, sign it to his star pupils, and they would take a piece of chalk, walk up to the blackboard, and write the answer in perfect French. People lost their fucking minds. They couldn't believe it. Like, deaf people, oh, my God. It unlocked this whole conception of the deaf as like, they can think, they can reason. Oh, all they need is language to be free. So this whole network of schools for the deaf started to spring up. They sprung up in all over Europe, and they would copy the teaching methods of the school for the deaf. A guy from America came over, and he saw this system, and he basically took their star pupil.

One of the things was the deaf would teach each other. You would teach them sign, and then they would become educated, and then they would become a professor at this school. He took the star professor, Laurent Clercq was his name, Thomas Gallaudet was the name of the American. He came over and he saw Laurent Clercq, and he said, Move to America with me, and let's go replicate this in America. Thomas Gallaudet says, Yes. They got on a boat. They sailed to America. By the time they landed, Thomas Gallaudet knew rudimentary sign, and Laurent Clerc, who was a fucking genius, knew basically had been taught English. They set up the first school for the deaf in America.

They figured out English on a boat?

He was a genius, a real genius, like a like an actual lucky enough to have been... You know These circumstances in history were the perfect man at the perfect time. They come here, they set up this school here, and they start to create American sign language. They borrowed from these different worlds. They took French sign language as the base. Martha's Vineyard, back then, had this weird genetic anomaly on the island of Martha's Vineyard. This is before it was just a place for Kennedy's to fuck their mistresses. This was back when it was a fishing island. There was some weird genetic thing that had happened where over the course of hundreds of years, one in 25 people on Martha's Vineyard was deaf. It was this very bizarre... Almost the equality that deaf people on Martha's Vineyard felt was almost like the opposite of what Affirmative Action is attempting to do. Affirmative Action wants to correct a historic harm by changing the playing field. This was an equity of everybody was the same because everybody on Martha's Vineyard knew, either was deaf, knew a deaf person, or was related to a deaf person. Everybody, hearing and non-hearing, signed on Martha's Vineyard.

It was a sign system called Martha's Vineyard sign language. They took some of that. They took the Plains Indian sign language, P-I-S-L, it's called. You know that gesture? You've seen it in movies where the Native Americans will gesture to each other. They present it as if it's like a war language, so they don't have to make noise. But what it actually was, was all the tribes in America spoke different languages. So they created this esperanto of the tribes so that they could trade. They could do trade. That was called Plains Indian sign language. They took all that into a bouillabase of French sign language base, Martha's Vineyard Chaser, and Plains Indian sprinkled on top, and they created American sign language. Then 100 years, 200 years later, my mother was born deaf in Oakland, California, and she went to the California School for the deaf, and she absorbed this language. My mother was 13 when she went to the California School for the deaf. She was in an oral school system. This is my long-winded way of telling you why deaf people have such a problem with hearing people. That language that she learned, she was in an oral school system.

Almost as soon as the sign language system came out, hearing people looked at it and We got to get rid of that. The one thing that unlocked their freedom, the one thing that unlocked their minds, hearing people saw it and said, We have to take that away from them. We have to make them more like us. By doing the sign, they're creating more Wakanda. They're creating an insular closed circuit system of culture. And weirdly, this was at a time in American history where those closed circuits of culture were really frowned upon.

They were frowning upon deaf people signing to each other.

It's deaf people signing to each other, Italians having their own newspapers, Chinese immigrants. At that time in American history, the idea of creating an immigrant subculture was really frowned upon. Alexander Graham Bell, whose parents were deaf like me, had a deaf wife. He became the champion of what was called the oral system. The oral system was, let's not allow them to sign. Let's teach them to speak. Let's make them like us. Let's make them talk normally and function normally. Let's make like us. But it was a crazy failure, and it makes sense why.They can't hear the sounds.They can't hear the sounds. Oliver Sack said, Teaching a deaf person without sign is like teaching you, Japanese, from inside of a soundproof booth by holding up flashcards in Japanese and putting a symbol next to it. It was like doomed to failure. Then they went through this 200-year reimposed darkness. There was a trial where all the hearing educators decided the deaf people wouldn't sign anymore. They fired all the deaf educators, and they pushed them out, and they created this oral system, which really... I mean, it worked for some people, but what it created was you had to be exceptional in order to be average in the deaf world.

You had to be a genius in order to get that oral system to work for you because your natural mode of communication had been stamped out. Then in about the '70s, deaf people started to rise up and say, Fuck that. We're signing. This is who we are. This is our native language. When I was born in '79, that was the world I was born into. From that, two sisters on a fucking corner in a slum in Paris to that school, to Gallaudet, to a boat ride, to Martha's Vineyard, to the California School for the deaf, to my mother's hands, to my hands. That was the way that I acquired language. It was through this crazy historical journey. And that, to me, is the reason that when I was born into the deaf community, community, there was so much distrust of the hearing world because they were like, they stole from us the one thing that gave us freedom.

That makes sense. Wow, I did not know any of that stuff. That's incredible. How does someone get to be a fake sign language interpreter and be on stage with Obama? Was it Obama? Oh, it's been multiple people. But there was one recently that happened. Yeah. But the Obama one was bananas because this guy was totally insane. And he was standing in front of Obama just making things up.

I'll tell you how good he is. Can I see it? The Obama guy? How bad the Obama guy is.

Well, I think it's just gibberish. I think he's just the sign language version of gibberish.

My life was going to appointments with my mother and being tasked with the job of interpreting for my mom's medical appointments. It was like a non-consensual internship program, like her medical appointments. And then I started to get in trouble. And then One, the subject of the meeting would be me.

It would be like a disciplinary meeting about me. So you would have to explain what your mom was having a problem with you.

Or what the school system or what the Oakland Police Department, what their problem with me was. Oh, my God. And then you have to do this interpretive dance where you can't be like, Oh, we think your son is awesome. He's a cool kid. We love him. Because then my mom's not stupid. She'll be like, All right, let's see how bad this guy is. So here's this guy. Okay. Well, that's not Obama.

No, that's not the This is the guy. I remember that.

It's the same guy. It's the same guy. This was at the Nelson Mandela Memorial.

Yeah, so check this dude out. This video doesn't have him net with Obama. Okay, just show him by himself with that other gentleman. What is he doing here, Mosha?

I am at a disadvantage, Joe, because this is South Africa, and I do not speak South African sign language, but I remember this guy.

So there is a South African sign language.

I would assume every system... You want to hear something That's crazy. It is so not a translation of English that my mother would have a much harder time understanding a British signer than a French signer. So it has nothing. It's divorced from English. Wow. This lady. Okay, so I can tell you that this woman is actually using sign language. This is actual sign language, but she is very bad at sign language. Is that what it is? Yes. Those are real letters. And This is completely incomprehensible. It's 55 million is what she just said. I don't know what that is. Please. Announcement tonight, handcuffs. Look, she waved her arms around like she was singing Jingle Bells, but that's not true, right?

If she She's doing some sign language.

Well, she's a hustler, whatever this is. But I did... Dude, I've been to so many appointments with my mother, where I walk in, and it's an emergency room appointment, and I go, You can leave. Just leave, because you aren't qualified to do this, and this is fucking life or death for my mother, and you're here. You shouldn't have taken this fucking job. You should have known better than to take this job because this is an emergency room situation. When I was an interpreter, the responsibility of that was massive to me. I felt that so acutely because I'd lived through it in such a direct way. I've been an interpreter when people were told they were dying. I've been an interpreter when people were graduated from graduate school, from getting their doctorate. I've been an interpreter where people were in court, and it was literally the degree to which I could sign accurately and faithfully was the difference between them going to prison and not going to prison. I've done all of that, and that weight is super massive to me and super important.

I can only imagine.

Yeah. And some funny shit has happened along the way, too.

I'm sure.

Some very strange situations.

How does the deaf community feel about people who get implants and can hear again?

That's another complicated question. Have you ever seen The Sound and the Furry?

No.

It's a fucking beautiful and fantastic documentary about cochlear implants and the deaf community. The thing is, the deaf community had an... I don't speak for the deaf community, obviously, but I can speak from my own experience. My mother has a cochlear implant. She got one because my mom was like, my mom's like an iconoclast, and she's like, I'm not going to allow a taboo in deaf society to keep me from experiencing as much of life as I could possibly experience.Of course.But In general, especially at the beginning, deaf people hated the idea of a cochlear implant because they do not feel, and I think to some degree, I agree with them, that deafness is a disability. They feel that what it is, it's a culture. I mean, obviously, they can't hear. That's a disability. But the true disability comes from the fact that communication barrier. To them, they see the cochlear implant as just another imperialist, now a robotic mechanism to make them hearing again.

But wouldn't that be counterbalanced by the ability to absorb art?

You can hear music?

Yeah. How do they hear it? Do they hear it the way a normal person hears it?

Well, I can tell you in section two of the book, My Rave Years, what music the deaf like more than any other in my experience, is definitely slamming techno. Because it's a really simple form to be able to experience and feel is just that boom, boom, boom of techno or house. They love that.

One of the best pool players in the world is deaf, and he shuts his hearing aid off when he plays.

I can totally see that because you're hyper-focused. You're all the way in. I can completely see that.

He shuts it off and he just doesn't miss.

My mother is still deaf. If you met her, you would be like, there would be no part of you that was like, this person isn't deaf. She sounds deaf and she signs. But she wanted to experience.

But she can hear.

So when you're old and your brain has set its neural pathways to such a degree that it does not process sound and never has, the cochlear implant, apparently, there's no way to reignite an atrophied pathway into a normal hearing system. By the way, the cochlear implant, I don't know. I've never had one, obviously. It sounds robotic. It never sounds like-Which is why they like techno. That's exactly It's simple.

It's not like listening to country roads.

Oh, I thought you meant because it connects. It's like a robot music. It's easy to follow. But I don't even mean people with cochlear implants. Deaf people in general, they love raves because it's easy to follow. You can dance to it. You don't have to follow some symphonic path or whatever.

When they're totally deaf, do they feel techno?

Definitely.

Where do they feel it? Their feet?

I would say probably their genitals, mostly. Really? No, I don't know. Their whole body. You've been to a rave, haven't you?

No.

You never have? No.

I wonder if your genitals really do feel it, if you couldn't hear.

I can say if bass is deep enough, you can definitely feel it in your genitals. That is true.

So you'd be just barely moving.

When I was a big raver and I became eventually a rave promoter, I was a DJ at Raves Through the '90s and an ecstasy dealer, but that's another story. When I was about 16, I bought my first set of turntables and a mixer, and I was terrible, obviously, everybody starting out. But you can't play in your headphones DJing, really. You have to have it be amplified. I had a very lucky break in having deaf parents because I would just set everything all the way to the max, and my mom would be happily studying in the other room, and I would just be train-wrecking techno beats.

That's hilarious. How did your neighbors feel about that?

I didn't have neighbors I lived next door to a terrible bar, so I could have given a fuck.Oh, that's lucky.I grew up next to a real white trash, like a want to be gangster bar. That was the energy.Oh, no. Yeah, really rough. They'd be showing off their sound system and their Cutlass Supreme.Oh, great.That was the energy. Pissing on my front door and shit like that.

Oh, my God.

Is this a Defraaver?Defraaver. I'm telling you, I'm not making this up.

I don't think that's the real music. But yeah, this company, the group called Def Rave, they host raves for deaf people.

Well, that's what I'm saying. House music and techno music really is actually music that's made for your body rather than your mind, and it's made to move to. I think for the deaf community, it is the perfect form. And these guys are all deaf. That's so cool.

You definitely feel the bass for sure. I mean, I don't... Yeah. There's headphones you can get that transduce sound through your jaw instead of going through your ear. But they have to still be able to understand what that frequency are.

That's really fascinating. Speaking of weird surgeries, when my mom got the cochlear implant, it decimated her balance. She has not been the same since. She's super wobbly because they took out her inner ear and they put in a robotic cochlear instead. And she wanted to get the other one done. And we had to do a cochlear implant intervention. We go, Mom, no. You're going to be in a wheelchair if you do that. Don't do that.

So it just wrecks your equilibrium.

Wrecked hers. A lot of people with cochlear implants are doing fine. But she, for some reason... I love my mom, and who am I to say that it wasn't worth it? She says it's worth it to her, and it's not my business. She wanted to experience in the last quarter of her life the sensation of sound. I think I get that when you've never experienced something, why you wouldn't walk through that door. To me, I wish she'd never gotten it because now she's this wobbly older lady, and it scares the shit out of me.

Is there a way to correct it? The wobbly thing? No.

They take it out.

Once they do it, that's it.

They literally remove your cochlear and put a robot cochlear in instead. So there's no, no, it's irreversible. She can't do an MRI either.Oh, boy.

That sucks.

She can't do a lot of things because a piece of machinery will clunk out of her brain.

Rip out of her fucking head, right?

But yeah, I think the deaf community is...

You're a link, bro.

I wonder how that would work with deaf people. I'm sure.

The new product is called telepathy. Let a person control a phone or computer just by thinking. Well, I heard about-What if you think in ASL, then you're not thinking in English? I thought the first ones were going to be for people that were injured.

Oh, to get them out of-Yeah.pip paralysis or something.

But I guess that is someone. But if you were injured like Stephen Hawkins, that would have been perfect for him.

Right. But what would it do?

You would be able to do everything on a computer.

It would no longer be robot voice. Right. I see.

You could type. You could do everything. Right. It says that you could talk faster. He said that you could talk faster than an auctioneer.

With Neuralink? Yeah, with Neuralink. That's interesting. How fast can you say, Get me to Epstein's Island? How quickly? It took him one minute to write each word. Is that true?

Yeah. There was allegations towards the end of his life. He married his nurse. His story is crazy because I have a bid on him, and I've been researching him over the last few weeks. His story is nuts. Most people that have that disease, Lou Gehrig's disease, they die within two years. He lived like 55 years. And by the end of his life, all he could do was move his cheek muscles. That was all that moved. So he could move his cheek muscles, and he would use the cheek muscle control cursor, and he would select letters on a screen.

Is there any reason why he survived, or is it just full-on luck of the draw?

Probably luck of the draw. I mean, access to great medicine.

Right, where there's that. I mean, he's-Right. Whether it's-I feel like sometimes-Famous scientist. There's some part of me that believes, until the Epstein story broke, that it was like a gift from the universe or something.

The thing about the Epstein Island thing is there were a lot of scientists that got lured onto that island. And imagine if you're a scientist, let's say you're a physicist and someone contacts you and says, Mosha, would you like to go meet this guy, that guy, and that guy on a retreat? You're like, Oh, these guys are super legit. This must be legit. You're over there studying the Cosmos. How much time are you googling Jeffrey Epstein? That's why I always hit these things. In the beginning, no one really had reason to believe that he was doing anything wrong until he got arrested.

That's why I always hate these things where they go, You took a picture with so and so, therefore you're... It's like, What does that have to... You take a picture with a thousand people a day. I'm not googling everybody I do a picture with.

Right, especially if you just meet someone in a show or something like that. It's insane. But also, With these people, these scientists, that's a really sneaky trick to get a bunch of prominent people together and then invite you to be with those prominent people. It's a good intelligence operation move. I mean, if I was in an intelligence operative, that's how I would compromise people.

Oh, you think there's a party that thinks maybe they were lured there, not just duplicitously, but in order to take them down?

100%, not to take them down, to have their influence.

I see. To triangulate them into, You'll do what I want you to do, a thing. Yes.

You will support Israel no matter what. You will do this, you will do that. The CIA will tell you to do something, you do it. If you are a person that has an enormous amount influence in a field of science. That's a very valuable person to have on your hand. If you ever have something where someone has to speak to the general public, you get this expert. This expert has an opinion. It's very different than some other people's opinions. And they say, well, then they promote that opinion. That's the person. You could do a lot of things, especially if you have a lot of them.

Right. An island's worth?

Yeah. And then you also keep them from criticizing you. You keep them from talking about it. You essentially muzzle them to this very complex scheme that was running where they were compromising all these people.

That's what you think Epstein's Islands was about?

100 %.

It wasn't like a hedonistic playground. It was actually like an-He was an Intelligence agent, most likely.

That's interesting. Well, Ghislaine Maxwell, her father, was an intelligence operative, and he was the one who apparently had trained Epstein, supposedly. The whole thing is very convoluted because it's very difficult. The story is filled with very wealthy, powerful people who have done a fantastic job of keeping themselves from getting arrested. It's pretty wild how this has been out in the open. Just the murder of Epstein, which seems to be a murder, doesn't seem to be a hanging.

You ever got upset you weren't invited?

No. I'm pretty happy.

You might have gone.

I would have gone if I didn't know.

If you got an email, Dude, we got an island. It's really fun.

Especially pre-Google. Oh, yeah. Pre-google, you're like, Hey, do you want to go out, hang out with Stephen Hawkins on an island? You're like, Holy shit.

But I did use to think, back to the Hawking thing, that, I don't know, the universe gave him to us in this weird way. Here's this mega brilliant genius. I'm not a big deist in that way, but I think, what are the odds that the smartest man ever to get Lou Gehrig's got to live long enough to give over the full bulk of his genius? There's something very beautiful and interesting about that to me.

Well, yeah, that's a good point, that that guy who had so much to give lived so long with a disease that killed so quickly. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he was apparently he was paralied. He couldn't move, but he could feel. So that's why he liked girls. Yeah. There's a crazy article, I forget what variety, maybe. No, I forget the magazine. But they were talking about he was a frequent visitor to strip clubs. He would go to swingers places.

Imagine being the stripper when Hawking comes in.

She probably didn't know who he is.

That's That's possibly not true.

Fucked up old guy. If you're 22 years old and your stage name is Alexis, what are the odds that you know who Stephen Hawking is?

He's pretty famous, pretty famous guy.

Pretty famous for people that care about those things.

Yeah, I think Alexis cared.

Maybe.

I think you're- Perhaps.cut Alexis some slack.

Maybe. Maybe Alexis is just dancing away through school. That's right. There's those. That's real. I think the Hawking thing is a strange story. Story, but the whole island thing is a strange story. It's a strange story. It's a story that is one of those things where you're going like, this sounds like the plot of a movie. How could this really be how they did it?

Yeah, that movie will come out. Who plays Epstein?

That's a good question.I.

Got a pitch.Alex Baldwin. Yeah, Baldwin be good.

A little too big. It's a little stink on him right now.

There's a little stink on Epstein, too.

Yeah, but I mean, maybe too much for him to get the part. Sure. You would want someone to... Who would do it? Oh, Bradley Cooper. He could do it.

Oh, BC.

He's a good guy at assuming new characters.

Yeah, great. Two great Jewish heroes. It goes from Maestro to Epstein's Island.

Well, he played... He's played a lot of people. Who else would be good? Christian Bale. He could do anything.

Christian Bale is the best of us. Have you seen Poor Things?

No, I haven't.

Emma Stone is the best actor in the world. Really? I'm on record now. Wow. Poor Things was great.

Other than Daniel D. Lewis?

Well, DDL, he is retired.

Is he? He's still retired?

I think so.

I feel like he's about to come out.

You think he's about to drop a new mixtape?

He's ready to get back in there.

Now, that is a pay-per-view that I would pay for. Daniel Day-Lewis versus Floyd Mayweather.

I bet if you gave Daniel Day-Lewis long enough, he'd learn how to box. He was really good in a movie called The Boxer. It was about an IRA guy who got out of jail. He looked like a real, legitimate boxer. He trained for an entire year in a boxing gym. That's all he did before they filmed. So he went to a boxing gym, and he essentially was there every day.

You know, he had to be called Mr. President on set of Lincoln, including to the security guard. There was some older security guard that just got hired that day.

Yeah, he was all in.

He was all... But those people are so insufferable, and then you look at their performance, you go, I don't know. I guess it's worth it.

I I think it's got to be worth it. I would not want to be around him during the There Will Be Blood movie.

No, definitely not. Fuck that. I just saw In the Name of the Father again. Have you seen that? It's one of his earlier movies. It's like an IRA story about-Yes, I did.

Yes, I did.

Such a good fucking movie. He's so good.

He's got no duds.

Is that true?

I don't know if any duds.

Yeah, I guess you're right.

I don't think he's got any duds.

That's such a good movie. I love this movie.

Last of the Mohicans was great, too. He was great. He's great in everything. He decided to start making shoes.

Is that true?

Yeah, he became a cobbler.

He went too deep into the phantom thread.

He just decided that's what he feels like doing right now.

I think it's time for me to reveal something to you, Joe. Official statement.

Daniel Day-Lewis will no longer be working as an actor. He is immensely grateful to all his collaborators and audiences over the many years. This is a private decision, and neither he nor his representatives will make any further comment on the subject.

Why be so mysterious? Also, what is this office building?I don't know exactly.Is that photoshopped?

I think someone made this account on Instagram. And just put this up.DDL.I.

Don't imagine that's by him.

Yeah, I would not imagine that he has an Instagram.

So, yeah, those boots you liked so much, Joe? Those are DDLs.He made?Nice.That's right.DDLs. I was going to get us to this conversational point at some point today.

That would be a dope brand. If Daniel Day-Lewis started actually selling things.

I would buy Daniel Day-Lewis's shoes.

You'd be the coolest guy in the fucking room.

Absolutely. But yeah, Emma Stone in Poor Things. She's the new Is he still a cobbler?

Does he sell shoes or does he just make them? He might be one of those dudes that just make shoes.

You want to hear a crazy cobbler port to the conversation we were talking about earlier?

20 years ago? Yeah, after the boxer.

He secretly made all. Secretly made shoes, '96 to '97. Okay. My mother learned sign language because of a cobbler. My grandma had her in an oral school, and she was failing, and she was isolated, and had no friends. My grandma went to get her shoes fixed at this cobbler, and he happened to be deaf, randomly. My grandma was talking to passing notes back and forth with him, and he said that he'd never learned sign language, and that he didn't have any friends, and that he didn't have any access to the world. He was just this lonely cobbler. That was the day my grandma pulled her out of an oral school and sent her to the school for the deaf to learn sign language. It was all because of a cobbler. That's awesome. Yeah, it's a wild one.

Do you believe in synchronicities, that these things happen on purpose, that there's something, some a destiny to life?

I can tell you that I've been thinking about Destiny a lot. She was the other stripper at the strip club looking at Stephen Hawking. No, I've been thinking about Destiny a lot because of this book. Because these are worlds, all of these worlds that I write about in this book, like deafness and Hasidic Judaism and AA and raves and burning man and stand up there. They don't go together except through my body, through me. I'm the connective tissue. Having written this book, now I guess I'm in middle age or something like that. If you're lucky. If I'm lucky, yes. Amen. May I may I be so lucky. I'm looking back and going like, this whole thing was a path, and there is no way to see destiny. I don't believe in destiny looking forward. I believe in destiny looking back. Like, everywhere you land is destiny in this weird way because it never could have been anything else. I have all these, and I'm sure you do, too, these portals in my life. You could have been a pool hustler only, and you could have gone to the pool hustler thing and then gotten shot and died at 25.

There's all these multiverse possibilities of the Mosha that wasn't. The Mosha that was was always headed in this direction. I think about stand-up. The only reason I started stand-up is because I was in Israel doing a semester abroad, and it was in the second intafada, and it got shut down. I was like, I just decided randomly to go to New York. I happened to have a friend who I'd kept in touch with who was doing stand-up, and she brought me to a show that night, and I saw Patrice and Sarah Silverman. I had never even thought stand-up in my life. I'd seen Delirious, or I watched Jeanine's special, but I didn't care. Standup wasn't part of my thing. But I saw them doing their thing, and I was like, I couldn't believe it. I'd been writing long-form monologs and I wanted to be an actor. I didn't know what I wanted to do. I wanted to write plays, maybe. I wanted to be a historian. I just didn't know. Then I saw them. How old were you? I was 21. I go, first of all, Patrice was making fun of Michael J. Fox, and it was the week that his Parkinson's had been…

I couldn't believe… It felt illegal. You know what I mean? I was just like, How can this be? Then Sarah went on and she was transgressive in this way that was like… Anyway, I go, Wow, that's crazy. Then the next night, my friend was doing a set, and I went and saw her, and she was funny. I go, What the hell? She's a human being. These are gods that I just saw last night. But this is a person. She's like me. I said to her, When you come to the Bay, I'll write five minutes of material. Take me to an open mic. I go to the open mic. I do the open mic. It goes pretty well. Then my destiny was set. Now, here I am. It's 20 years later. I just wrote my second book. I'm talking to you. I got a wife at home who's a comic who I met in clubs. I have a child at home that's a result of the connection that the two of us have. I can't even look back and think about the other lives it could have been because it's like, that, to me, is destiny, is looking back and going.

I was like, I don't know how. I don't know how raves to Burning Man, to deafness, to Hasidic Judaism, to AA, to stand up lead here, but it was always leading here. This is where I was going.

Do you believe in the multiverse? Do you believe that there's infinite numbers of you living in different directions and infinite possibilities Because that's what... If the people that believe that we live in one channel of essentially what's an infinite radio dial, that's why you can only exist in the moment, really.

Because it's only one thing going.

Yeah, it's only one thing going, and it can go any way. If there's an infinite number of you out there, which it likely... The way the universe is, If you talk to people that actually understand the scope of infinity, they will tell you that not only do humans exist, but you exist. And not only do you exist, but you exist in the form where you have done everything that you have done on this Earth, you, Mosha, the guy I'm talking to right now, there's an infinite number of you-Doing the same thing.that have done that. Exactly. Every pause that you've made, and then there's an infinite number ones who made different choices. And it's an infinite number of different choices that they have made at every single moment of every single step of their life. That's how big infinity is.

What is the... I guess there is no purpose in that.

It's like I don't know. There still might be a purpose. There's definitely a purpose to the people that exist in the moment, that exist in this time that we're sharing. So if that is real and it is felt by all of us, life is amazing. And when it is, and it's terrible when it's not, there's a meaning to it. It's what does that do, and what are these moments? And what is the powerful emotion of love of in the way people feel when they hear great music and all the good things that human beings are capable of and all the things that human beings do. What is that doing? It's expressing energy. It's expressing the universe in some weird way, has taken this multi-celled being and allowed it to change the surface of the planet and experiment with video where it flies through space and hits another person's device on the other side of the planet instantaneously. What we've done is fucking bizarre. I can't think that there's not a meaning to it because there's a meaning to us while it's happening.

If you believe that story, not that I'm saying that story was the most magical story. It's my magical story, and everybody has their own little version of a magical story.

If you're lucky, it's magical.

Right. That's not to discount people's tragedy that they go through, too. By the way, some of my path was paved with tragedy. To me, the history of the Jews is this triumphant story that's pockmarked with insane tragedy all the time, and then you just keep going and keep surviving. If you believe in destiny, like I was headed here because a force brought me here, that's magical. If you believe in randomness, like there was no meaning, this was truly a pinball ping from wall to wall, that's just as magical to me. That's just as mind-blowing.

It's all pretty magical. Existence is magical. I've always said that if life itself as you live it right now, was a psychedelic drug, you would take it and be like, What the fuck is this?

Well, even to exist at all, scientifically, is so infinitesimally unlikely. We're the perfect amount of distance from the the sun, to have an ozone layer and an atmosphere. And then you're a human that you got to incarnate in the human version where you're not just a sustenance, like the pig that you shot. You could have been the pig that you shot, the funky big. That is such a rare... It feels so common if you don't pay attention to the beauty in your life. It can feel so common and banal, and life is boring and meaningless. And if you turn around, if I turn around and look at the magic of this existence in this incarnation. And that's why I love life so much. To me, the book is about my desire to... When I die, I want to squeeze the last drop of the towel that was life. I want the last little drip of water that was in there. I want to drink it all. I want to live. My religion is fun. It's not Judaism. It's fun. It's experiences. It's love and the connection, talking to you, going on stage, writing a book, having a family.

I feel super overpaid and lucky because a lot of my friends that I grew up with are dead. It could have been me, too. Sure.

It could have been all of us. There's a lot of decisions you could have made that have not gotten you to this point right now.

Yeah, me and Pete Holmes, we're talking about it. He was calling it spiritual plinko. It just could have plinked in a different direction, and you'd be a different guy. You go on a car ride one day, you're in an accident, you go on a car ride the other day, you win the A Nobel Prize.

Yeah, you tie your shoes before you leave the house and you avoid an accident.

Or you tie your shoes and you get into an accident. Yeah. So I think, yeah, what you're talking about living in the moment because there's so many possibilities that, if you believe it one way, are happening or could happen to you, then fear is... I mean, I live in fear sometimes, and it's like, this is so pointless because it's the thing with my daughter, the thing you're protecting her against. You're not protecting her against the actual thing that will harm her and vice versa.

Well, that's the thing about anxiety, right? It's preparing for something that hasn't happened. That's what freaks people out. I think a lot of time it affects very smart people, too, because they take into account all the possible scenarios that could take place, all the variables. I always would tell people when I was teaching, when I was teaching martial arts, when I'd have people compete, I'd take them to tournaments. I'd be like, the reason why you're so nervous is because you're smart. The last thing you want to be is not nervous right now because nerves are going to save you. It's a terrible feeling, but you're going to get over it. But those nerves exist because you're aware of the variables. You're aware of the possibilities. You're aware of the danger of it all. A delusional, stupid person who's just confident, they can win. It's possible. They can still win, and they can have no nerves at all. And they can go in there, they can kick everybody's ass. But you're better off being aware of what this is. Your senses will be heightened as long as you're not overwhelmed by fear.

You're saying fear is beneficial in that way?

A hundred %. Customato, who trained Mike Tyson, used to say, Fear is like a fire. You can cook with it or you could burn your house down. Oh, that's great. You have to be able to control it.

Yeah, totally. The thing that happens is when people become worshipful of their fear, and it takes away their ability to go out and experience life. They're so afraid of the disastrous possibilities of life that they forget to live a life. I will say I'm not free of fear at all. I feel it all the time.

You're a human being. It's impossible to not be. Also, you live in LA. You got a bitch for a dog.

It's It's possible it's a bitch. It's also possible it's betraying me because it's a German shepherd. And it's like, I wasn't trained to protect Jews.

Oh, good point.

Okay, I got you. Yes. He's a sweet art.

George Foreman had a German shepherd, and when he had a German shepherd and he brought it to Africa when he's fighting Muhammad Ali, they were very distrustful of him. Because of the dog? Because he had a dog that they used to sick on black people. So when he was bringing this dog, this guy was bringing a dog that they recognize the enemy, there's a lot of people that were very distrustful of him.

Oh, that's really interesting. Yeah. He should have brought my dog.

So that helped Ali.

If he brought my dog, it would have created unity in South Africa.

They still wouldn't have trusted it. It's this breed.

Yeah, that thing's sweet. I love him.

They didn't have those breeds back then, though. They only had one German Shepherd. Do you ever see what German Shepherd look like over the years? Yeah. Because they're trying to make them for show dogs, their hips have dropped. Right. And they look different. If you go to a German Shepherd from 1930, and then look at a German Shepherd from 2023, it's a different animal. They're sloping.

You know that true Bulldogs, like MCA or whatever?

Jamie's dog can't fuck.

They can't. And they only give cesarean birth.

Yeah, I think Jamie's dog can't breed normally. You got to use the turkey baser.

But neither can Marshall. I haven't tried.

Marshall can if I let him.

The problem is you won't let him. Well, he was always going to want. He texted me on the way here. He said, Talk to Joe, see if I can get some ass.

I would definitely find a good lady, and it would have to have homes for all the puppies. But it's the thing about dogs. You're not saying, I want my dog to have sex. You're saying, I want my dog to procreate. That's a different thing.

Yeah. They can't. Right. They don't do it for... I think about that a lot, too. That human beings... By the way, I think this is a great and lucky incarnation to be a human. It's really good. But it's also humans, we have warped evolution to such a degree. We shouldn't be hung up about stuff. We can't have... Sex is so simple for every other animal. It's just like, I get in there, boom, I got a baby. And we're over here going like, I'm ashamed.

Covered in clothes, which is just a bizarre invention. What a bizarre thing we've done to our bodies, where we can no longer exist in the atmosphere, even if it's warm, people wear clothes. It's become a thing where you're shielding your genitals from the other people because they represent your sex.

Also, though, I have heard that when people, when uncontacted tribes, really like old school, sustenance living, Iron Age level tribes, come out of isolation and decide to join the world, a big part, what they want is clothes. I think it might be really cold out there, just in life. Oh, yeah. With no clothes.

Well, it definitely is sometimes. It's not perfect all the time. But I think that's why we used to be hairy.

Right. I still have some of that. It doesn't seem to help.

I mean, there's some fucking dudes in Russia. There's some Russian wrestlers that look like a human lived 200,000 years ago, looked like. They're fucking covered in hair, everything, all the way, their neck, all the way through their back, their chest, their arms, full thick hair. It's like, that's probably what we were like. You ever seen a real hairy Russian wrestler?

Sure.

I mean-Look at this, dude.

Oh, yeah.

That's my guy. This is a man that exists right now.

But he doesn't look like he would stay warm in winter.

No, because it used to be a lot thicker. But I think that was slowly over time when we chose to wear clothes, we invented clothes and chose to wear clothes. I think slowly over time, people lost all their body hair. But I think at one point in time, when you see these Really? Go to that other picture of him where you see his back and everything. That one. That one. Perfect. That one. That's a fucking different hair than the average person has. That dude has long hair on his shoulders.

Do you think that like If you have more hair, your older school? Probably. Like your genetics or older school?

Probably why they're so good at wrestling, too.

They're strong as shit. That whole thing we all have a little bit of Neanderthal DNA. Yeah, I have a shit ton.

Do you? Yeah. Yeah, look at how fucking hairy these dudes are. I think this is just the 2023 version. I bet if you could go back 200,000 years ago, people were just covered in hair. That's what they think about ancient hominins. It's not like one day they weren't hairy.

Do you think I might be quite a man?

A little manly there.

Thank you.

How's the back?

Back is clean, dude. I don't know how. I don't know why. It's a blessing. I'm telling you this life is magical. I got a hairy back.Do you really? Yeah. Are you a shaver?

I get my wife to shave my back. Really?

Can you imagine what would happen if I asked Natasha to shave my back? It would be a problem. It would be a no. I could tell you that.

She would do it with those gloves. The ones that go all the way up to the elbow, and she'd be She was explaining the entire time. It would be hilarious. It would be hilarious. She's probably filmed that.

She would never. I love this image, though. Elbow length, gloves. She's got a custom made razor with golden pearls on it. With a fucking face shield.

Shaving your back.

Oh, you have one of the COVID shields.

Yeah, I get hairy.

As do I.

Yeah, I get itchy, though, too. When I get too much hair, it pulls up in between my tits, and I get itchy.

Do you shave your arms?

No, most of the time not, but I have. I have a few times. It makes my tattoos look better.

I mean, you don't look very hairy from here.

Yeah, they're hair. You can see it. You get close. This is because it's all the tattoos.

I swear to God, my hair stops here. It's like I have a reverse farmer's tan. Interesting.

Maybe your people for the longest time wore short sleeves.

That could be true. That's probably what it was. You really think that?

Yeah. I think that's why people have hairy forearms for the most part, but don't usually have hairy shoulders. I think that's where it comes from.Evolutionarily.I think the whole thing comes from clothes. I think our whole adaptation to... I mean, if you look at it, I would imagine urban people, if collectively people have lived in urban environments for longer periods of time probably have less body hair if you follow their genetics, than people who live in very cold, rural climates, like fucking Canadian men that live in Alberta. They're probably hairier dudes.

It's weird that with what you're talking about, you're talking in a strange way. It reminds me of original sin, too. It's straight up biblical.

Right. We've lost our abilities.

The first big event that occurs is something goes wrong and the human becomes aware of its nakedness. It's what you're talking about. It's not about cold. It's about shame. What I do believe in the answer to a question you asked me two hours ago, are all of these somehow connected to a functional, nearly scientific corollary, like turchanosis or whatever. I do believe that on some level, every bit of biblical information, every bit of religious information, it has some allegorical and metaphorical connection to our past. What does it mean that Adam and Eve saw their nakedness and realized they were naked and decided to cover up? It speaks to a historical truth. Definitely, I don't think Adam and Eve saw their nakedness and were ashamed, but something occurred where we realized we are naked in the world and we must cover because people can't look at what we're doing.

It just makes sense that once they started wearing clothes, seeing people without clothes would be just this shocking thing.

I can tell you an exact corollary for that in my personal life. When I go to Burning Man, last year is my 24th time at Burning Man.Oh, my Jesus.I've been going since '96.

And your Stone Colds over.

Stone Colds over the whole time. How dare you? I'm the guy. I'm the designated driver. When When I get there, a lot of nudity, less so every year as things get a little bit more sanitary there. But over the years, lots of nudity. It's one of the primary characteristics, women running around naked, everybody naked. I will be zero titillation. Nothing about it is like, Humma, no. Mama, look at that hot naked lady. Zero.

Because it becomes normal.

Then I get back to the States, a low-cut dress. I'm like, Whoa, look at that over there. Oh, the little cleavage. Interesting. Your mind can adjust based on your It's erotic. It's like there's zero erotic charge after a week at Burning Man to see a naked woman running by fully naked.

Isn't that why lingerie exists? Because the whole thrill is taking it off. The thrill is that it's very sheer and there's very little of it. Like, oh, look at that.

I feel that lingerie is a con and that I've never met a man that likes it.

Interesting. Do you love it? Get to that in a moment. Okay. We'll be right back. Humans appear relatively hairless compared to our other ape relatives, but the density of the hair follicles on our skin is actually the same as would be expected of an ape our size. The follicle. The fine hairs that cover our bodies, which have replaced the thicker ones seen on our close relatives, are thought to be an evolutionary leftover from our hair ancestors. Yeah, there it is. Makes sense. Oh, wow. Now scientists find these fine hairs are useful after all with people with more of them are better at detecting bed bugs.

More fine hairs means you're better at detecting bed bugs?

Yeah, you probably feel them more. Female ancestors preferred a bug-free mate and so opted for hairier guys.

Whoa. Oh, that's really interesting. How weird. I've had crabs. You ever have that?

No, I have not. I've dodged that bullet. The research has found that body hair significantly enhance how well people detected the bed bugs, which participants noticing the bugs on the hairy arm quicker than they did when tested on the hairless arm. Interesting. The hair's serving as motion detectors. Whoa. The hair also prolonged how long it took the parasites to find places to feed, presumably because they hindered movement. Interesting.

Wait, it's better to have hair or worse?

Yeah, follicles. It's better to have follicles. It's better to have some hairs.

When I got craps. I was living with my mother. Oh, shit. How old are you? I was probably 18, 17, something like that. They tell you at the clinic, they say, Anybody that lives with you, you got to give them this insecticide, too.

Oh, no. So you had a sign to your mom that you got crabs? Holy shit.

She had to slather herself in insecticide and sleep overnight with it.

How mad was she at you?

I'm lucky in that my mom is probably the most sexually open-minded woman in the universe, and she was not mad at all. I think she thought it was funny.Oh, that's cool.Yeah, my mom wasWhat a great mom. Very chill about things like that.

There was a time once-Probably happy you were getting some.

No, really. She used to sit my brother and I down on Tuesday nights and read to us a book called Boys and Sex. She was just open. When she found porn, when I hit puberty and she found porn, she took the porn, and rather than yell at me, she brought me to a feminist vibrator shop, and she said, You can pick any of the lesbian text-based erotica that you want. She wanted to make sure if I was looking at porn, it would have 90 pages of prose poetry before we got to the good stuff. That's the woman my mother was. She didn't care at all. Very open-minded.

Well, that's lucky, especially in the crab situation.

Well, definitely in that situation.

The whole idea of VD killing people is so strange. But that's a lot of the ways people died back in the day. It was syphilis.

Right. You couldn't treat it, right?

This was pre- Nothing they can do before antibiotics and penicillin and all that shit. Yeah. What the fuck did they do? I mean, that's literally your skin rotted out.

I've never had any of those. I've only had the bugs.

I don't think people get it anymore. If they do get it, they can cure it now.

Is that true? No, people must still get it.

Ciphlas? Yeah, you can get it, but I think they can cure it now.

It won't kill you?

No, I think they just give you penicillin, I believe.

Do you know that rabies, not to change the subject. It will kill 100% of people that display symptoms? It's crazy.

Yeah, if you get bit by something with rabies, you have to take painful shots. I think they go into your stomach. I think it's a large needle. It goes into your stomach. I think you have to do it multiple times. I think if you don't do it within a certain period of time, you're done.

There was a crazy story about the first woman person who ever survived symptomatic rabies that I heard on, I think, Radiolab. Basically, she started displaying all these symptoms, fear of water, rage, all that stuff. That's fatal 100% of the time. Anyway, her parents took her to the doctor and they go, This really made me laugh. It's tragic, but it made me laugh. The doctor's like, Has anything unusual happened? Anything that you think could have maybe They brought this about? They're like, No, nothing we can think of. Nothing? Not bitten by a dog or a bat? They go, Oh, no. Yeah, she was bit by a bat. Is that what you're talking about? Yeah, she was bit by a bat. She was at church and a bat flew under her nose and bit her. I was like, Yeah, I think that might have been the inflection point. But anyway, they put her into a coma. Because something weird about rabies, apparently, your body, it's what we're talking about with human evolution, your body can beat it, but I'm not going to articulate this well. Your body moves to beat it, but it moves at below the speed of the virus.

The virus moves faster than your body's ability to beat it. If the virus was slower, then your body would cure it, but it goes faster. They put this girl into an imposed coma and somehow, in ways I don't understand, slowed down her system in such a way that the rabies went a little bit more dormant, and then her body was able to supersede the speed of the virus.

Can they still do that?

They do it regularly now, but it doesn't work. It's not like a universal cure, I guess.

The Milwaukee Protocol recommends inducing therapeutic coma by ketamine and- Back to the rave scene. There it is. Mitzolam During rabies participants, the first week of ICU admittance.

So, yeah, it's a system now. It doesn't work well, but it works a lot better than- It says the ability of the natural host immune response to clear the rabies virus if the patient is supported through the intense exotoxic phase is the basic premise of this strategy.

So that makes sense, too, because you'd be able to hydrate them. Because one of the things that happens to people, they no longer can drink any water.

Fear of water.

They just start throwing it up as soon as it gets in their mouth.

They said in that That podcast, that rabies presents in the way that by ancient, like million-year-old disease present. It doesn't feel similar to the more modern diseases and pathogens that we have in our systems now, but the way it presents, it's like an ancient killer. It's like a ghost of our past.

It's crazy how common it is in the animal kingdom, too. It's really wild that it gets animals to bite you, to give it to you, too. That's how it spreads.

It feels evil, right? It doesn't just feel like a sickness. It does feel very evil, like a vampire. Yeah, right.

That's it. First reported fatality due to rabies in the United States despite receiving appropriate post exposure prophylaxis, according to a recent article published in Clinical Infections. He was 84. Eighty-four-year-old man had died in 2021, about six months after waking up in the morning while a rabid bat was biting on his right-hand.

Now, this is what we should be afraid of. Bats.

This is the scary thing. Think about it, but it is rabies, right? Because it is vampires. Because vampire bats.

I think you're right. They're scared of water. It all seems like animals. People used to use garlic to keep bats away.

Is that true? It's not 100% effective, but that's medieval times. That's really interesting. The vampire thing is probably rabies.

How do we solve this? Bam.

We did it. He did it, dude.

Dude, rabies, by the way, is like the fact that it killed... That article said it killed the guy who took the appropriate.

Yeah, but he was old.

If that happened, we're fucked. You know what the Tasmanian devil? Mm-hmm. Yeah. They're all dying of a contagious face cancer?

Yeah, it's like a VD, right?

Is that what it is? It's a cancer, though. Right. It's cancer. Imagine cancer goes contagious. Right. That's the scariest thing I've ever heard in my life. The fact that it can exist in one animal means it could exist in all of them. Very, very scary.

What is it from? Tasmanian devils are affected by two independent transmissible cancers known as the devil facial tumor and the devil facial tumor, too. Both cancers are spread by biting and caused the appearance of tumors in the face or inside the mouth of affected Tasmanian devils. That's not a sexually transmitted disease.

No, speaking of a disease feeling mean, like what you're saying with rabies, the reason that... Why? That's crazy. The reason that they transmit it so much, they have the cancer in their thing, and they've got a behavioral tick where the way that they, I think, fight is to like, mash their faces together. So they have the confluence of the disease that can spread that way and the behavioral tick that allows it to spread. These viruses are just like us. They want out. They want to live. They want to survive, and they will somehow, weirdly find a way to spread themselves.

That's why variants are so strange. The virus will find out that you have some immunity to some certain aspect of it, and so they just slightly change, so it sneaks past your immune system.

I had a weird, very cosmic theory about the pandemic and COVID. I know that you don't cotton with conspiracy theories about COVID. I do. No, I'm joking. This is more metaphysical, though. When we were raised, I remember being told to wash my hands all the time. But I don't really feel like I told my kids that. It used to be almost religious, like wash, wash, wash, wash. Then by the time I had my kid, I told her to wash her hands, but it wasn't like, you must. Then all of a sudden, a new pathogen came into the human genome, and it was like, I mean, obviously, I don't think that washing hands is that big of a deal with COVID, but I had this thought, what if viruses go dormant until we... Because the reason, this is my big weird theory, the reason that we were told, wash wash, wash, wash is residual trauma from Spanish flu. This is my theory here. It's like your grandparents lived through that, and then they embedded it in your parents, like, wash your hands. It's super important. And then it got to you. And then it started to fade away a little bit.

And then all of a sudden, you have a new pathogen. I was like, what if these viruses have a little like a weird animal consciousness of like, okay, they've forgotten about the washing hands thing. Let's pop up into the human population. Anyway, I know it's a little kookey.

Yeah, I don't think that's it. The Spanish flu one's weird because people didn't really die from the Spanish flu. They died of other diseases that they got while they had the Spanish flu. What did they die of? They died of meningitis? There was a bunch of different things that people died from. All of them would be cured by antibiotics today.

Do you know how it got the name Spanish flu? This is an interesting story.

I do, but I forgot.

Basically, it wasn't Spanish. It started in America, but we were in the midst of World War I, and so every country was in this media embargo to not say, Oh, God, there's a new disease in America because it would have made our army look weak. Every other country didn't want to admit it either. But Spain was either not involved in the war or didn't have that embargo. Somehow, they reported the disease, and so for the rest of time, it's Spanish flu. So became the Spanish flu. Another weird thing I found out, the flu that you get today is the Spanish flu. It's the variant that sprung off from the Spanish flu, weakened and weakened an infinite amount of times. But the thing that we get that we call flu is just the cousin of the Spanish flu. Wow.

And the reason why it's weak is because it serves the virus better to not kill you. Exactly. Because it could spread to more people. What a weird fucking thing.

It's wild. It's almost like they... I don't mean literally with my cacahamame theory that it was consciousness. Let's go back. I mean more like that. Like that it'll weaken in order to be effective.

Which is the fact that it can do that, that it adjusts and changes. That's what's really scary. A lot of people are scared of this disease called CWD right now. Cwd is called chronic wasting disease, and it's affected a lot of deer. And there's deer all over the country that have this chronic wasting disease, and it hasn't jumped to humans. I think it has jumped to some mice. I think in some parts of the country, they've tested mice, and they tested positive for this stuff, but it hasn't jumped. It's a prion disease. So it's like a mad cow. Oh, . Yuck like a Becrutzfeld's disease. And then if you get it, you're fucked. You're fucked. And the end is horrific. These deer are wandering around just drooling, emaciated. They look like skeletons, and they're just like zombies.

I don't like this chronic wasting disease.

Well, it's very scary. It's all these things are scary because occasionally they jump. Because these things, they can figure out a way to change. They morph over time.

It's not if it is when with pathogens jumping into the... It will happen.

Especially with large scale agriculture. And the thing about large scale, especially industrial agriculture, is it's very unsanitary. It's fucking disgusting. And just like how the plague was started in all these different parts of the world because people were shitting in the streets and living in filth and no sanitation. And that's probably exactly how it starts with them as well. The virus is particularly deadly because it triggered a cytokine storm ravaging the strong... You're talking about the Spanish flu? Spanish flu? Yeah, I know about that.

That's one of the weirdest facets of Spanish flu. It killed young, healthy people more than it killed old and infirm.

Yeah, it killed young soldiers. Apparently, it was no more aggressive than previous influenza strains. Malnourishment, overcrowded medical camps and hospitals, poor hygiene exacerbated by the war, promoted bacterial superinfection, killing most of the victims after a typically prolonged deathbed. That is That's crazy. Superinfection is a scary word, man. It was the war.

It's like we became a part of the pathogen. Human society became a part of the pathogen that allowed it to kill.

Narly. Apparently, the 2009 swine flu was really bad, too. Bert got that. He said it was the closest he ever felt to dying. Scary. He said it was horrible. He said the worst flu he's ever gotten in his life. He was wrecked forever. What about a new non-influenza virus? The one that caused the virus. There's That's what it says. What's the same? However, as historical records dating back to the 1700 show, every 10 to 40 years, the world suffers a global flu pandemic, the result of a major antigenic drift. The virus mutates so much that the human body no longer recognizes it and is left defenseless. The resulting epidemic spreads faster than scientists can isolate, producing, and distribute a vaccine. This is what happened in 1918.

Dude, this is This is my cockamame theory. It is.

If you think about all the different diseases that kill people, they are co-existing life forms. Viruses and bacteria, they're a type of life. I don't know If they really call viruses life forms, they don't. They categorize them in a different way, but essentially, it is like a life form.

It's the same thing. It just wants to fuck.

It's just like Marshall. It just wants to live in your body and reproduce there and get other people. But the wildest one is rabies because it makes the animals bite so that they get it, too. So other people get it, other animals get it. It makes them more aggressive.

Like I said, it's like a prehistoric meglodon. It's coming from our past. Dinosaur disease.

Yeah. Well, that was the premise of 28 Days Later. Remember that movie? They created one and gave it to chimps, and the chimps just biting people, and people were biting. That movie fucking rules, man.

I I do love that movie.

The Great Manure Crisis of 1894. This also caused a lot of disease problems. Yeah, the streets, because everyone had a horse, were filled with shit. That's all horse shit. Click on that one up there that has a text below it. 99 %. Yeah, that one. Look at that. That's manure. That's shit all throughout the street. So you're smelling shit. Everyone's getting shit in their nostrils. If you're smelling it, that means that some of that is getting in your body. You're inhaling shit. There were vacant lobs where it was piled over 60 feet high.

But on a positive note, that prankster on TikTok, that was a glory year for him. He was able to find buckets of shit right at his very feet.

They didn't have YouTube back then. He really couldn't make a living. I mean, I don't think he's making a living. I think he's arrested.

I think that's good.

Look at that, 1894.

The great horse manure crisis of 1894.

Until they figured out cars. That's how people got around. You had to ride a fucking animal. Which is pretty wild. That's a pretty recent.

What's that?

Until 200 years ago, you had to ride a fucking animal.

It's wild. In that poor things, I think it was historical, semi-historical. There was a combustion engine cab, but it was a stagecoach with a fake horse head on it. In the very beginning of stagecoaches, people were so used to having a horse in front. It would just be like a little head. That makes sense. Godfather style. Yeah.

It's crazy how much the world has changed in 200 years.

It feels unsustainable. Oh, have you heard this? You know It's all about the Fermi's paradox, right?

Ferme, yeah. The space paradox.

Yeah. Okay. So you know that? I'm sure you did the latest theory on why they... Because that's the question that it raises. If there's an infinite amount of planets, where are the people? Where are the aliens? And the new theory, this really sent a chill down my spine, is that every planet goes through the same basic process, which is that they become in 200 years, they go from pre-industrial to industrial revolution, to strip mining themselves for resources, and then their population explodes because they can sustain more population, and they need to extract more resources, and then they get to their space age. By the time human, any planet, gets to space exploration, it has exploded in population and resource stripping to such a degree that they reach a decision that they have to make every society is either we continue to strip, mine, and populate, and go extinct because we're going to run out of room and resources, or we shut down and do an imposed dark ages.Population control.Just shut everything down, stop. We will never evolve to the point where we can get to an Earth because we all go through the same historical arc.

Or maybe it's a longer arc than we think. That could be true. Maybe we're in the middle of it, and maybe that's what steroids are for. Maybe steroids come along when we get a little cocky and they slam into the Earth, and we start from scratch again. And then we have the same genetics as the intelligent people that figured out how to build the pyramids. But we're this new, confused, barbaric version of it that's been fucking eating rats for a thousand years.

Oh, I like that. So there's not just an infinite amount of Joe's and Mosha's. There's an infinite amount of human populations, just regenerating and regenerating for an infinite amount of time until we get to the good one.

Well, I'm a big fan of what they call the Younger Dries Impact Theory. And the Younger, Driest Impact Theory is based on a bunch of things. But one of the things it's based on is core samples. When they've done these core samples, they show that around 11,800 years ago, without a doubt, the Earth was hit by comets. They think this is what happened that stopped the ice age. This is why the polar ice caps. It used to be ice covering North America. Half of North America would be a mile plus sheet of ice. Then it all stopped very quickly. It also caused the death, the extinction of 65% of of the mammals that lived.

Right. I've heard about that.

They think the people that are proponents of this theory, like Graham Hancock and Randall Carlson, they think that human beings had achieved a very high level sophistication in probably a different direction that we have now, and That's the pyramids. That's Gobekli Tepi, that's all these ancient structures that they don't understand how people could have explained or built a long, long, long, long, fucking time ago that we can't do now. That's what happened. The impacts happened, and then society rebuild thousands of years later. So thousands of years of barbarism. Then 6,000 years ago in Mesopotamia, language, written language emerges, agriculture. They start figuring things out again.

It's like Atlantis. Yeah. Yes. Natash was into this documentary. Yes. I remember this now.

Ancient Apocalypse. That's right. It's on Netflix. It's amazing. It's very likely that there's physical evidence now. It used to be this wacky theory, and people would say, Well, there's no evidence of that theory. Then they started discovering things that they let go Basically, Tepe is the best example, that are absolutely, absolutely over 11,000 years old. So they go, Okay, 11,000 years ago, people were building these complex stone structures. How the fuck did they do that when we thought people were hunter-gatherers back then? Then when they find these core samples, there's a high level of iridium in that time period. That's very common in space and very rare on Earth. It's like a sheet of it. Also with a sheet in a lot of these areas, it's just pure carbon. It seems like everything burned. It's very likely that we were pelted, and it's very likely it's going to happen again. Every June and every November, we pass through this comet storm.

You always do this to me. You're the one that told me about the supervolcano. You know, I haven't been able to stop thinking about it since. You should think about it. Why? What good does it do me?

It doesn't do you any good, but it's good to know that every 6,000 to 800,000 years, Yellowstone goes. Don't re-up this information. It's a wrap. It's a continent killer.

I don't want that. I don't want wasting disease. I don't want continent killer and other things I don't want.

But maybe those are the things that keep us from getting to the place where we nuke each other into oblivion. Maybe those are the reset buttons of the universe, where if we go down the bad path, and maybe there's this race to try to have good morals and ethics and have society evolve at the same level that the human mind and technology evolves, and to overcome this constant need for war and controlling resources which have dominated human culture from the beginning of time, and that maybe it's this battle, maybe this culture war that we're all fighting that people are complaining about now. Maybe part of that is this struggle to achieve a higher level of existence, and maybe done in the wrong way on both sides to a certain extent, but ultimately what it is, is trying to sort out what's right and what's wrong and what's good and what's bad and why certain things take place. If we don't, if we don't get to that and we keep engaging in wars, then we never reach a technological level of sophistication that allows us to stop natural disasters. If we can get to a point where we can knock steroids out of the sky and do something to release the pressure of the supervolcano and figure out a way to not have people starve, and all those things could be accomplished if we get to a certain point.

I think we're in a race. I think AI plays a gigantic part of that race. I think the race just got really Really fucking weird. That's what I think.

Yeah, that will neurolink. I mean, the doomsday scenario of AI. And by the way, you're an optimist. That's interesting. I didn't know that. It seems like you're an optimist. I'm optimistic.

I think human beings, generally, society, if it exists long enough, there's always going to be terrible moments. But ultimately, people want the same thing. They want their community to be good. They want their friends to live. They want their families to live. You're terrified of other people that might want to take from you the thing that gives you joy and happiness and community and love. But ultimately, I think we're going to figure out a way if human beings can exist long enough, we can work things out much better than we're doing right now. I think one of the things that hinders our ability to work things out is just like you were talking about sign language, that your sign from America is different than the sign from the United Kingdom. I think if we develop a universal language through translation, through technology, we will eliminate a lot of miscommunication and a lot of this failure to understand each other because we look at each other as the other. We look at each other as something that's very different than us. They're already doing that on Samsung phones. Samsung phones, the new Galaxy S24 Ultra, comes out with AI.

One of the features of AI is a translate. So we can sit apart from each other. And in real-time, this thing could take your... If you're speaking French, you can do it in your ears, in headphones, or you could do it on the phone in written language. It does both. And if it's in headphones, we both have it. I could talk to you in English, and you could understand it if you speak French, because it'll translate into perfect French, and then we're close enough as it is, it'll get better. And then you can speak French, and I will hear it in English.

We need that for a liberal and conservative. You just put headphones in, and it's like, Oh, that's what you meant. Okay, you're okay.

It's not even that. I mean, that's the tribal part. The tribal part is that people just adopt ideologies wholeheartedly. And if you don't, you're not on the team. Just like the people that were in your neighborhood looked at you weird, like you were a goyum because you're not all the way in.

Tribalism is the downfall of society. But I also love tribes.

I do love-If they're cool tribes, we just need charitable, conscientious tribes that are kind to other people and just enjoy the differences instead of thinking the differences as being some a negative.

And that's what you're saying is that hopefully we're evolving towards a situation with a universal language or at least a universal understanding. You can see someone that's different and think that they're not... What is the difference between isn't that awful to isn't that interesting? Yes.

And then because we're in a growth phase, you're going to go through overcorrections. I think a lot of the culture war that we're involved in, all the craziness that's happening in society, it's an overcorrection. And then people are going to get fed up with it and they're going to move into a more conservative direction. They'll get fed up with that, and then they'll move to a more liberal direction. It's like it goes back and forth because we're trying to figure out what's the right way to do it. We're basing life on what we were taught by people who didn't know what the fuck they were doing, which is most of our parents and most of their parents. They didn't know what the fuck they were doing. My grandparents didn't know what the fuck was going on in the world. They raised kids who didn't know what the fuck was happening. They raised me. I barely know what the fuck is going on. My kids know more than me. Their generation will figure it out a little bit better. If we can stay alive, we can eventually get to some commonality, and we can realize that a lot of this stupidity is based on our human system of these tribal interactions.

It's ingrained in our genetics.

Or we need to make an enemy. Maybe that's AI. We all come together as a tribe. Or UFOs. Or UFOs. That's our mega enemy. Will you please get here, guys? Because we need to solve some of these problems here. I think they're here already. Oh, yeah.

I think they've always been here.

Why don't they just be like, Hey, what's up?

I think they're interdimensional. I've been reading this. I've been reading Diana Pasolka's new book, the other book, the first one. That's the one I got through. Yeah. This lady who's a religious scholar. I'm reading American Cosmic now.

We got to get you out of here. Oh, sorry. Yeah. I have a book event tonight. Tonight's the night.

With Duncan.

With Duncan, tonight. Yeah. I'm super excited. I could fucking talk to you all night.

Yeah, we'll wrap this up, but I'll recommend this book to people. It's called American Cosmic, and it's essentially about this whole flying saucer. I just did a whole podcast with the woman, but now this is a previous book that I'm reading, and it connects it to religion, and it connects it to the stories in the Bible of Ezekiel, that Ezekiel is essentially seeing a UFO, and that these things are not just a physical thing, that there's some a psychological aspect to them. There's some a frequency that we connect to occasionally as human beings, as thinking creatures.

You're saying we get to a state of enlightenment where the dimensional portal opens up for a split second, and that's what we see?

I don't know if you would call it enlightenment.

Or frenzy, spiritual frenzy?

A state of being able to receive whatever the frequency these things operate on. I think it's based I think there's a lot of stories from ancient religion that's probably based on this. I think as we get more and more of an understanding of quantum physics in this concept of dimensions, in this concept of the ability of something that's far more advanced than us to manipulate dimensions and to visit back and forth, and that the potential is that maybe that is where all intelligent life forms eventually evolve to, if given enough time, and they do it correctly. They become interdimensional travelers. And that what we're looking at, when we're looking at these grays, these weird-looking things, that's us in the future.

Coming back to visit.

Yeah, interdimensionally. This is our path. That we will become these genderless things, the giant heads that use telepathy. Just like this Elon Musk invention, this Neuralink that's going to allow you to scroll, so paralyzed people can use the Internet. It's going to be able to operate machinery. One of the things that Bob Lazard said about that craft right there, the sport model that he allegedly worked on in Area 51, Site 4, was that they didn't have controls in them. They operated them with their minds.

It's so funny because when he first said that, it probably sounded... I mean, it still sounds a little bit like bullshit, but it probably sounds crazy. It sounds a little crazy. But when you look at Neuralink, you go, Wait a minute. I guess I could see operating a craft with my mind in a thousand years from now. There's that idea that AI, when robotics catches up to AI and AI can implant itself in a robot warrior, then they are like an entity. Then they look and they go, What is the only threat to us? Oh, it's humans. Terminator. Let us get rid of the Terminator. That makes it so that our only hope is Neuralink. Is hopefully we can fuse and the AI will not say, what's our threat? They go, oh, no, that's us. Yeah, we will emerge. That's our meet us.

I think that's what's going to happen no matter what, because I think once it happens, the people that have it will have such a massive advantage over everyone else that has to use a device.

It's like steroids.

Yeah. Well, it's not just like that. It's like having a car, living in a house, having a television, having the Internet. If you live in the woods by yourself with no language, you're fucked, right?

It's the tribe coming out of the jungle and saying, I want some clothes. But on a mega, mega level.

On a mega, mega level. I think that's where we're going. I think that's what the UFOs are.

Well, I mean, do you think that in this universe, my book is a best seller?

I think it's going to be fucking huge.

Thank goodness. Now, this is what's important.

There it is right there. Subculture Vulture: A Memoir in 6 Seans by Mosha Kacher, available now. Did you do the audiobook?

I did do the audiobook. Yes.

God, you let an actor do it.

No, never. Although what's really funny is there's a part- Did they try to pressure you to do an actor? No, they wanted me to do it. I think they like when comics do it. But there's a funny part in there where my friend Larry, early in my life, throws me up against a wall at an AA meeting and tells me to stop saying the N-word. He's a black friend of mine. It was when I thought that I had a pass or whatever. It's a moment about popping your head out of your ass, basically. He basically threw me up against the wall and shifted my perspective into, of course, that's not what I'm supposed to be doing. But I had this pass passage in the book where I was like... I mean, it's a very short passage, but I'm like, I'm not reading that shit. I went forensically into my past and contacted Larry and said, Larry, it would be awesome if you would read the part of Larry. I found him and he did it. That's amazing. It's me and Larry.

That's great. That's awesome. It's out now. I'm going to see you tonight. Oh, awesome.

I'll see you at the club. See you at the club.

Good luck at your book event. Say hi to Duncan for me.

Thank you very much. My pleasure, brother.

It was awesome. It was really fun. I really enjoyed it. We got to do more often.

I would love to. All right, let's do it.

All right, bye.