You've you've seen this cook up some pretty wild stuff here at Meat Eater, like whether we're experimenting with deer, making our own sausage or rendering down some bear fat or in one case, even snake oil fat to make a bit of tallow. We are passionate about what we cook and how we cook it. And we know that not everyone has access to these odd cuts materials. So we decided to hook up with Port Road and give you a chance to join in the fun.

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Chances are if you're living on this planet and have access to a television, you've probably been exposed to some Hollywood version of the survival genre that pits man against nature as though nature is so mean. Bastard that's best avoided. Like fretting about mountain lions while you drink your own pee. The reality is most survival stuff is produced for entertainment and that's about it. Maybe it's fun to watch, but much of it is nothing more than a good way to make a bad situation worse.

That's why we wrote The Meat Eater Guide to Wilderness Skills and Survival. It's my latest book. In it, you'll learn from the hard earned advice of accomplished outdoors men and women, including river guides, lifelong hunters, mountaineers, emergency room doctors and Wild Foods experts like how to effectively find and treat water, how to gear up for any outdoor venture, why cooking accidents mess up way more people than grizzlies. How to deal with a porcupine quills in your dog and a porcupine's meat on your fire and how to develop a mindset that keeps you calm, rational and focused during your most stressful moments.

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This is the Meat Eater podcast coming at you, shirtless, severely beaten, in my case, underwear.

Listen to our podcast. You can't predict anything presented by Onex Hunt, creators of the most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download the Hunt app from the iTunes or Google Play store. Know where you stand with Onex. I'll tell you something interesting. A couple times I've expressed outrage. Which, you know, that's what Americans do nowadays. It's express outrage all day long. Right, I was expressing outrage about. The fact that twenty four individuals have contacted Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks so contacted their state game agency.

To get. GPS tracking data on animals. And the state was saying we have little option but to give it to him, meaning like there like I know, a good hunting trick, you contact a biologist who's got collared, a collared bull. And say, hey, I want all the waypoints, I want to know I want the GPS tracking data because you're a state agency and so therefore it has to be public information.

It's like publicly funded science. So they want access to that. Yeah.

And I just outright condemn these people as being horrible people. Right, and then following up on that, Jim Heffelfinger. Who is a wildlife biologist in Arizona was saying that in Arizona, just for that reason, we have a some kind of state statute or something that makes it that gives us the ability to not provide tracking data. To people. A dude writes in, though, and he says on last week's podcast, never mind. I don't know when it was it was recently, but I just got around reading this now.

Steve mentions the fact that there have been several requests for GPS collar data in Montana. I am one of those requesters. I thought I'd share a little of why I requested it and what I actually received. He then goes on to establish his credentials as a hunter. Feed his family off wild game. Loves wildlife, and he's a photographer. And he requested data. This is what he has to say, he requested data for a big bull elk.

Somebody knows about a big block or another, he requested data for a big bull elk in a mountain range. That is very it takes a rain, it takes a lifetime to draw a tag in that range. So I'm guessing some about the tobacco routes. It's my guess. Well, not makeovers, Bellhorn, of course, sorry, correct. He says he's into this thing, he says the thing now that you and I know where it got big Grigoryan Electrics and all this kind of stuff.

Were you set a trail cam in a sweet looking spot? In the hope is that you get an image of you'll get a trail cam image with some kind of stunning background, and these are just like. Dick and Jane, trail camps like these. It's like high end systems, all custom laid out for us, Rick.

Well, I mean, you're getting close to animals and taking pictures of them unless they're habituated.

Like that's like that's Rick's. I should point out to people. That's right. Yeah.

I mean, definitely, unless they're roadside animals that are really used to or on a private ranch or something like that, where they they don't they don't run away from you. Taking taking pictures of animals that don't want their picture taken is really hard.

And it results in like a document, but not like something that's aesthetically pleasing. So these trail cams you can rig up with, like nice lenses and a big system and how to keep it all waterproof, that's all like housed in, like a little pelican case. Like the electronics are housed in there and they have it's like a dude setting a legit camera.

Yeah. Like a like a five thousand dollar camera in a box. I wonder if people ever thought because like, it's one thing to hawk a trail camera if you're going to hawk like, oh it's Delva.

I mean, yeah. Unless you, I mean you could easily like I don't know, tie it to Silver Locket or something.

They, the boxes will have like a mechanism that you can lock that box but it, but it consists of something to power that camera for a really long time. A motion sensor both like a passive sensor that's just catching any sort of movement, like a motion sensor you might have in your house to turn on the lights. But then they also have these active sensors where it's like a beam.

So the animal breaks the beam at a very specific point because you're like, oh, you're one to get them, like, very specific, you know, composition.

And there's some folks that are I sure share an office with a with a fellow that's super good at it.

Ronan Donovan, who's the bug that got into that big time, and he's the one that got the the mountain lion with the Hollywood sign behind him.

P. 32. Yeah. Steve Winters. Yeah. He spent like a year, you know, like in his head. He's like, I know there's this lion that is in this area and he wanted the Hollywood sign back there. So, I mean, I think he had that camera out there for over a year. Hmm.

That's what this dude's doing to me.

That's what he says he's into. And he challenges me, goes you can go look it up online. It's the thing anyhow. You good on that record, you like it? No, no, that's you know, I had some useful information. And so his point was that he's not going to hunt this animal. That's where we're going. Yeah, but we're not even to the good part. But that's his point. OK, I'll say so about Rick.

That was good there just for listeners at home. Have we talked about this? I always I always feel like Rick's going to know things. And oftentimes I go to him, I'll be like, you know, Rick, Rick knows, and then and then he'll not know. It's very true.

Yeah, but he'll say I have high expectations while I'm good at making up, I'm good at making up stuff I don't know anything about. But, you know, you nailed that one.

Well, he usually does, but sometimes he don't like a word. Actually, that's. Yeah, I'll be like Rick. How do you pronounce that word in my wheelhouse there? Yeah.

That one that's specifically in your swing. The other ones. I'll just pretend that's in my wheelhouse. That one.

That's actually the let me ask you this about the photography world. Yeah. What's wrong. What Chris was going to say something well, I was going to say that Rick often says things. This is the voice of Chris Gill and greater share to Mike, and he's wearing a headset.

So that's why that's covid. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's really it's a long headset anyways, Rick.

Oh, boy.

Oh, sorry. Go ahead.

Rick says things with such confidence, even if he doesn't know what he's talking about, that you believe it, which gets him into the situation where you always just deferred. You're like, oh yeah, Rick knows, because even if he doesn't know, he's like, oh yes, that's it. But what adds to it, too, is that what's good about it is that when he. What do you like? OK, if he half knows, he might act like you know, knows, yes, but if he doesn't know it all, he just says he doesn't know if I have yet.

I have just if I have just like 10 percent of the information you'll pass, I'll bump it up to no, bump that up to like 80.

All right. Let me ask you this, Rick. This is a photography ethics question.

All right. In the wild, from what I do, I have an MFA and we we talked about that, some actual graphics. I'll preface this by saying this when I want to get back to this dude, but but but this is interesting. I was surprised it.

Back up when we just published our The Media Tour Guide to Wilderness Skills and Survival, which is available now at Amazon.

I as part of the promotion for that, they did this little whilst there was like a small profile of me in Wall Street Journal. Yeah, which is great. Yeah great, great. Great piece. I spent some time with a photographer who had to take a portrait, you know, so. Kylie and I went out with her to take a portrait. And I was and she was very like, it took a long time. OK. And she was telling me that in the journal.

Even if it's just like a human interest piece, she cannot manipulate that image. Yeah, she said if there is a piece of hair.

On her lens. Wipe that out.

Yeah, they're like because they will not allow the journal, they regard themselves as a news agency, journalists, and they're so strict about not no doctoring of images that they can't even remove lint on the lens.

Any imperfection you can see, they often deliver the final image and then the raw photos that you can compare the two to make sure that that there wasn't any Photoshop work done.

She can't adjust, she can't post adjust light. She can't even adjust the image quality of it.

That's what she was saying to me. So or like I might not have the vocabulary to fully explain why she can't do shit. And she's taken the portrait like I've done portraits for magazines. They do whatever they want.

Yeah. Yeah. That's quick. No, it's a it's a whole different deal to be considered a photo journalist.

That's what she. Yeah, she's a photo journalist, not a photographer. So you got to be real on top of your shit. Get to wipe your lens.

There was I think there were some big scandals back in the day when Photoshop was first coming on shore. People had take remove like a poster, a sign pulled it like made the image of aesthetically not as pleasing so that there was like I think there was a when the transition to digital happened, there was kind of a they had a bunch of protesters you put in with some guns.

Yeah. You can add. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whatever. Knock yourself out.

Yeah. Horrible. No. OK, that perhaps is my question. In the wildlife world, is it bad in the wildlife photography world is a bad doctor? I think for the folks that consider themselves journalists or like advancing like the science of either conservation or wildlife? Yeah, they don't they're not messing with images. Images.

So, Nat, National Geographic were that were that mountain lion Hollywood thing came not medicine, not medicine, that it wouldn't fly if he's like, well, I took a picture of a lion and then put the hobbits, you know, and they would I think they would maybe call those photo illustrations or graphic designer.

Yeah.

And like go. But there is I think the public often kind of blurs the two and they're like, oh, look at this amazing picture of a lion.

And it's like super manipulated. Or it turns into it's a form of art, but it's not the same as capturing that animal, you know, in a less doctored way. Mm hmm. But I don't know I don't know if the public really cares that much for Christmas. I bought my my wife likes to do puzzles. You know, I bought her a thousand piece puzzle. Of woman, it's sort of like a metal swimsuit in a big axe riding on a drag, and you can tell that it's not real.

Yeah, probably maybe manipulate a little.

So. And I a border crazy puzzle. How does she know these gifts? Yeah, I know this is coming out. Christmas is a couple of days. I bought her crazy puzzle. She likes hard puzzles and she has a problem where if she starts the puzzle. You can't go to bed till she finishes the puzzle. Is that a real. It's a real.

It's a real problem. This she goes one time she started doing a puzzle and everybody went to bed on New Year's Eve.

And I like to go to bed real early on New Year's Eve, but everyone's bed on New Year's Eve. And she stayed up because you can't go to bed. It's a she's got a puzzled thing, she she doesn't try to find them, but if she goes, if we let go and stay at a friend's house, this happened to her once we go to a friend's house and they had a puzzle kind of started. She couldn't help herself but do it, and I made her undo some of it because it's like they obviously were trying to do the puzzle.

She sees a puzzle, she can't not do it, that's that's like you and like a dirty garage, dirty garage.

I bought her puzzle of a dude in a giant weed garden, Greyman weed. So it's all just weed where you get all the puzzles. Oh, my friend Savannah sent me a link. She knows it's my wife's old roommate, sent me a link being like. Like, you know, like you always got a puzzle problem if you're on a message or give her this weed puzzle because she won't look at the picture either. She doesn't let herself look, this is going to take her million years, she's going to be like die.

She could die of sleep deprivation, but this is the weed puzzle.

But the same outfit work, I think, was Workman publishing the same outfit, had the woman riding the dragon. So I kind of threw that into the basket.

Warm, warmer up puzzle.

OK, back to this guy. We're all you're still going. Oh, dude, I got to the good part. All right. Got the preamble.

So he goes on to explain his wintertime hobby, sort of like me and S Martins, his wintertime hobby is set in trailer camps. He sets them in areas, intentionally, sets them in areas with spectacular landscapes like. And wants to get the animal the perfect pose. So he requested the data because he wanted to find pinch points with a view to get some really cool shots of some of the most sought out balls in the state.

Here's what I got from FWB. OK, so what I heard is after BP had little. Recourse other than to hand over the data. Yeah, which I was like, that's what's the world. It's nothing sacred for Christmas, right?

So first I had to file a formal written request along with an explanation of what I was going to do with the data. I'm sure no one, believe me. The request went to someone's boss's boss. It took seven months of back and forth to get approval. They did their due diligence. Second, when I received the data, it was in map form, not coordinates. The map was at the scale as to show the whole range and the dots that signified the location data were large enough to cover several hundred yards.

And just for reference, there's one dot per day for every collared animal over a five year study. That's a whole lot of dots, most of which are on top of each other. Third, the maps are broken into three month periods. FWB must have forgotten to give the data from September through November because I only received three sets of maps last year. They threatened me with jail time if I share the data or used to harass wildlife in any way.

I'm assuming I'm some sort of watch list now, and, oh, the most recent data I received is two years old. Yeah, so after the FWB was like, OK, we're going to give you the data, but we're going to make it as hard as we can. Yeah, it goes on to say, if I was looking to kill some old. It's not not that helpful, not helpful. Yeah, I mean, he was looking for some nice little tracks of like he's just trying to find patterns of movement or, you know, but is I mean, you could just do that.

I think he probably would. I mean, yeah, he just has to go go out there, hit the ground.

Yeah, sure. It probably helps just given you, like, a chance, like, oh, he spends a lot of time here if he's doing another Elgort doing it, you know. Oh but he was looking for an individual like some monster.

I recently didn't request it, but I got some I got some information from a biologist that. Was very helpful, and it was I got a map showing the. It's a big map. And it shows it's color coded for habitat quality. So the darker red it is, the better they regard habitat quality to be for this particular species. Overlaid on the map are dots.

Showing where kills had been registered. But there's only dot, there's a dot for every section where a kill has been registered and it doesn't matter if one or a hundred things were killed on that section, the section still only gets one dot. Yeah. So it could be a freak outlier or it could be like the hottest horny whole of. All right. But it's not good for anything specific. But when you look at it, you get a sense of I looked at it, I got a sense of OK, where's the good habitat for the species?

And the most interesting thing to me about it was that it showed particularly how people were accessing the area because there are mass areas that were the deepest, darkest red that had no dots in them. And all the dots were along. All the dots were concentrated along road systems. And so you could look at it and get a very general sense of like where one might go, that's good habitat, but not but likely not getting. Exploited like the resources, likely not getting exploited in those perfectly red areas that don't have any dots.

So, like, super helpful, super helpful.

I mean, I feel like that's not like, oh, I got them now, you know. Sure. What species it was. Got I got a question that's very simple, coincides with all this song, Onex, they have the harvested buck in elk reports, right? OK, Boyle. Mule deer, buck or white tailback from twenty eighteen when you click on the unit to see the regs.

And I was like, man, if you're trying to learn of the distribution of where those animals were killed, not within the game unit, but they have what that game of a similar thing where you don't know.

It's just the numbers. Yeah, just numbers.

Not like dots on a map. No. You can see which unit has like maybe zero percentage of success.

And I was like, if you're trying to figure out if you're just going in blind to an area, like I was trying to learn a new area in Montana and that would be part. You want to talk to dad to death. Yeah, but that's just one part of figuring out is it worth going in in here? There's like, you know, three bucks harvested.

You're like, oh, and it's a huge, you know, a man or something. Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's a lot of ways to look at that too, like. How many tags they give out? Yeah, and that was yeah, it was it was like just another little piece to use though I think the success rates.

Oh, percentage of hunters, extremely helpful. Yeah. Yeah, if you're if you're looking at, like certain limited draw things, then you see the success rates are like 80 some percent and you factor some people probably show up. You're like this. Yeah, it's gravy. If you're looking at success rates that are in single digits, you kind of like know that you better carve out a little chunk of time and.

Well, all the units I was looking at were just general over the counter units and it did like it did somewhat guide me on, you know, maybe the difference between this unit or that unit to go explore on foot.

Mm hmm. That's kosher, right? Oh, that was the question I forgot you were asking the question. Yeah. Oh, of course, man, I don't I want to I want to say one more thing about the photographer. Oh, let's go back to him. It's just that's a lot like that's good for him. Like trying to he's trying to take a great photo and everybody takes photos these days. So the only way to separate yourself from the masses is like, do something different.

And, you know, you can debate like, should he have that information or shouldn't he? But he's at least trying to do something different, which is commendable. Yeah, I'm a big fan of people that have a vision in their mind of a photo that they want and they go and get that photo. Really?

Yeah. Yeah. Give me an example. Um, yeah, what's what's the photo you want, Seth? Well, here's an example that what's that fellow's name? You guys know we're talking about him? Oh, Donovan, no, that that ever Donovan musician.

No, Ronin, when they heard from him in September. Not so.

There's this dude. He wanted he wanted urticaria. He wanted a shot of a dude walking. Like free solo across one of those, just like a wire. It's like life from like two, you know, it's like riding. Spread between two points. Oh, do you ever see that documentary about that guy, man on a wire? Oh, my God. Oh, fantastic. That's a good ass movie, man.

You know what's weird about that? Hold that thought.

OK, I got it. I got I got to kind of Soderbergh's it man on wire. You know that Steven Soderbergh film he made with the porn star, Sasha Grey? Yeah. What was that movie girlfriend? Something different experience. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You watch that movie real careful. The dude gets the dude gets a prostitute and they're on like they're like fake date. They're talking about that documentary. Oh, that's interesting. Good.

Anyway, he wants you want to you want a shot of a dude walking on a line with the full moon coming up behind him. And he's like silhouetted in front of this giant moon like E.T.. Yes, kind of when they're riding their bikes. Yeah. It's like a very specific shot that someone I disagree with you, why it's not like is being that being, like, cool or respectable?

I mean, come on now you're getting into now you get into subjective B.S., man. No, man, OK.

You might agree with it. Because like all the I don't know, maybe I should tell you, I want to hear you insult Seth, I'll knock that headset right off. No, I don't.

But I don't want to sound like I'm insulting anybody's work because, like, you know, I don't know. Let's hear. Let's hear. I just like it's a safe space. I just find more value in. Like spontaneous. Well, that's why you do what you do. You're like, yeah, but documentarians, street photographer, but like narrative films, the cinematography, I'm like, OK, that's fucking rad. But if somebody sets up a photo, I'm like, that's not that cool.

But if somebody sets up. You know what I'm saying, go ahead. I know what you mean. No, I it's like there's so many amazing photographers that don't have an idea, like they just have an idea of what they want.

They go and, you know, they have like a place and an idea that they're uncontrolled and that's and they have to represent that idea in the photo. That's when you get photos that are like.

You look at me like, how the fuck did that guy get that? Yeah, it's because he was right place, right time didn't probably didn't have he didn't have that photo in mind. Yeah. He just happened to, you know, like I said, right place. Right time. Yeah. I like that a lot because I like that too. This is great. I feel like I'm back in college.

Listen, this is a different podcast. Yeah. I mean, it's like in here, but in Nevada with Chris, I got a roomful of ithaka. Appreciate what you're saying.

You like spontaneity like. Yeah, OK, Seth likes planning. We won't have to fight to the death. No, because I wouldn't say that I like planning more than I just respect it. Like someone has a vision, it's really hard to get that photo. It's not easy, you know, and they go make it happen. That's a good point. I thought you were going to say you respected the guy because all the work he did to get the information.

No, you don't. I mean, I I took some took serious work for seven months in the government. Here's my question to you, Steve.

Do you do you now want to recant what you said or do you want to stand by it? I'd have to revisit what I said about, you know, about the people that did this.

Well, just like a blanket outrage.

I mean, you can't I mean, that guy seemed to be doing it the right way. Well, I'll say that you can make a declaration that it's not black and white. No, I'll say this.

I love this guy, OK? I like that he wrote in like the thoroughness of his explanation. I like things where people think things are one way and it winds up being another way.

I like the whole story. All that being said, all that being said, if I was king of the world, king of the universe. One of the things I would do in my first 100 days in office is I would say that states do not need to release. They're not in the end for for whatever they don't need to release that kind of information in that way.

Well, isn't there all kinds of other stuff that the government does that we would have no possible way of getting information?

Yeah, like I said, I would like to meet these aliens that you have down there in Nevada. They're not going to let me meet those aliens. Yeah, I mean, there's plenty of stuff that's held super tight and we're all free with that Freedom of Information Act. It's like, where's our SEAL Team six working right now?

Mm hmm. No, I would say no at the present time, but some period they'll declasse some people, so. Yeah. So so, uh.

I think we've been Tomlins way too long. I like the Arizona thing, I like the Arizona thing. They don't have to give it away. The aliens thing in Arizona. No, no, no, no, no. The fact that in Arizona, they don't need to read that.

They don't need to issue GPS tracking data or the state has the ability without it being too onerous to, like, issue a version.

To issue a version and that it wouldn't be like some super reliable thing and and I'm like a slippery slope kind of guy, I believe in slippery slopes.

And you could imagine some situation where someone would go and get where someone would go get like very specific data about a specific animal. And they give it over to him and it gives everybody it gives hunters a black eye. Some famous moves, and he's on National Geographic and whatever. And also on some. Some oil tycoon shoots the thing, the data gets out as well.

All right. Jesse, tell people, well. S tell people it's God's gift no matter what you tell. I know.

Want to hear, Seth that his perspective on it first. Merial Pastor Jesse Watts.

Well, no, I want to talk about I just need to tell people about his special thing. He's Kirchen. Like literally right now with the throat, what I got cooking or metaphorically, what's cooking? No, no, but I want to first have yeah. OK, explain the dish you're making where you take the the.

You know, basically, the farther you take the leather off the outside of a rib cage of a deer rib cage, yeah, basically everything south of the loin, the back strap from the from the ribs all the way down to the belly of the sternum.

Take that off in one big rectangular piece. You can either stuff it when you're not getting to the nearly the level of detail I'm looking for. Oh, OK. Tell us tell us where it starts, where it ends, east and west. You've got to skinwalkers north and south.

Got to skinned out their tongue in hind legs. Well, that's no one's put it on the table. It's horizontal. We're going to take the the front legs off right at the shoulder blade. And that's basically exposing that whole side.

And when you say that, you mean I got scolded for doing this wrong. Oh, yeah. You don't cut through the cartilage of the shoulder blades.

Yeah. Like like when you strip it. When you take the front leg off. Yeah. When you're doing your butcher and you take the front leg off, you're cut and clean to the bone on the inside of the leg.

Yeah. Anything on the out. The outside leg stays with the shoulder. The inside of the leg is clean. Right, clean to the bone, so all that meat that lies under his armpit. Right, you want to leave that on stays on the carcass. OK, yeah, and then about probably four or five or six ribs back, you know, you don't get too scientific about it. Kind of draw a big rectangle, go all the way down to the the hams where the kind of that flat meat is past the ribs and you take that all off in one piece by running your knife real clean against those ribs and try not to get any holes.

There's holes. Didn't really come out laying.

You're like flaying it. Flaying the meat off. Yeah, you know, smaller dough or something, that could get real tricky because you're not going to have a lot of meat to work with. It could be half an inch thick, but you just take your time and you get that whole piece off and it's a rough rectangle, maybe a parallelogram, and then you say a half inch.

That's just not a quarter inch thick in places. Yeah, it can be thin.

So but on a bigger, bigger bulk like, say, the one that Clay shot it, it's a little bit easier.

It's a good third clay for listeners at home. They just almost fist bump.

But but I think our both of our collective wing stands are just sort of three feet. I wasn't going to commit fully to it. I didn't want to distract you. Yeah. So, yeah.

And then you take that and you can you roll it up from top to bottom, bottom to top, and you got the grain running horizontally through there so you can stuff it, you know, like the recipe in my first book where we stuff it with sausage and breadcrumbs and egg, make a little stuffing out of that and roll it and then you you cook the hell out of it.

Back up. Back up, sir. You got to meet Meechie. A meat sheet that's like. Cardboard thick. At the thinnest, yeah. And yet, what, dimension's 18 inches, 18 by 12, 18 by 12 Meechie. Yeah, of stuff that people would normally feed to the coyote's sure not normal. Many would feed it to the cows. But you got to meet sheet 12 by 18. You then lay that out flat and get specific with what?

I watched you do it.

Where are you going to make your I mean, what we did, we got cooking right now. We we put some bacon down. But to muster down, we put some pickled jalapenos and some onions. So basically that's a. Kind of a take off of German roulette where there would be the same thing with a set of pickled jalapenos, it would just be like a Kirchen or cornichon.

Yeah, or dill pickle. That's a good idea, man. Yeah, they put some sauerkraut in there. You can do that. I mean, I mean, this is just you got to thank Germany for that one. That was not me, but it's delicious. And it works with, you know, as I'm sure you know, many different animals. And then you just roll that up like a little piece of firewood. Yeah. Into into a log and then tie it off, you know, use some kitchen twine, go in and just tie it every two or three inches.

Yeah. It wants to be in a roll the size of a nice walleye. It looks like a backstrap.

Yeah. Let's go to roll up. Looks like a backyard.

It looks like a Baxter. The nice walleye metaphor's probably lost on us.

Nice backstrap, nice backstrap with little chunks of hollow pineapple.

This may be too difficult to explain, you know, just with audio, but he spaced out his ingredients in a specific way so that when it rolled it, the ingredients fell on the right place. I noticed that. Yeah.

Yeah, they're they're kind of in like a mound like you didn't you didn't spread like a pizza. It wasn't like a pizza topping that was spread all the way across.

Right. You had two rows.

Yeah, that's right. Separated. Remember how you did it wrong and then changed his mind. Did it right. Yeah. Any, any rolls. The the longest part is is where the roll you roll it. Well you roll it from the 12 inch part. Help me here. You roll it from from top to bottom the eighteen Idjwi.

So the thing ends up being eighteen inches long.

Yeah. Yeah. So at this point folks Jessie has taken a knife and he has flayed away all of the meat that sits outside of the ribs. Plus flank and plus up into the shoulder a little bit and made a Meechie. Then he rubbed mustard. No, he put salt. He laid it out flat. Put salt, pepper. He put on a glove and rubbed mustard all over some, which he put down bacon strips. He put down pickleball opinions, he picked put down onions, raw, raw onions, then rolled it up.

And do a little backstrap shape. Like a giant Twinkie. Would that be jelly roll, a giant jelly roll and then try it using that special little. Tie off roads, tie off not. And then there it is, and we held it up, commented on how it seemed like a fish or you held it a lot. I picked up four times, multiple times. I would set it down and go back and pick it up again. I liked it so much.

Yeah, that's a nice way. Threatened to slap Clay with it, talked about slap label slap given to a meat slap. Yeah, OK.

And then then you're going to do what we we took a big Dutch oven and got it hot and we browned it off on all sides. And then just through some onions in there, you threw that really good talent in there to. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you can definitely bear fat for that. Yes. And then browned it off for a while, then threw some onions in there. And then I just covered it with stock and I put a little can tomato in there too.

And that's just sitting out there simmering on the fire. Probably needs to cook for about six hours. That's key. You don't want to cook that thing because it'll get nice and tender. The beauty of the the grain runs horizontally on it so that when you come in and you cut the string off of it and go and just cut it like you would, logically you're cutting it against the grain. And so it should be super tender. Does it stay together and look like a little cinnamon roll?

It'll stay together a little bit. Now, if you follow the recipe that I have in my book where you make the stuffing out of sausage and breadcrumbs and eggs, it stays together real well because that egg and the protein in the sausage really binds it and you get this kind of role situation. So it's a little and it's bigger because you put in way more bulk in there. But I kind of want to just, you know, play with a little bit and just try some different stuff out with it.

Like this is less stuffing. So it's easier crockpot to, I guess, absolutely huge. Don't get me started on crockpots.

I love them. You know, we were Endou for a long time, a long time ago. Meat sheets. No, we were into I'll tell you about this thing I bought. I have one of those funnels and then you get the mesh net, like, imagine the I don't know, they still do this like now I know when I was a kid, my mom would bring home like a pot roast from the grocery store that would be in net.

It'd be like an inexpensive cut of meat. In a Plastiki net. I bought a huge roll, that net on sausage maker dotcom. And I bought the funnel. In the funnel, it's like a changes it changes shape to accommodate whatever you shove through it. You stick the mesh net over the end of the funnel and then you cram. Whatever meat you got or like let's say you make a pheasant, you want to bring in smoke, if you take the pheasant, legs and wings and shit sticking out of your direction.

Right. And shove it down through that funnel. And then he pops into that stretchy net. And then he just all trussed up really pretty, it's like when you when you wrap up a Christmas tree. Exactly. Exactly. Like bring in a Christmas tree home. Good job, sir. I've never had a net on a client. Yes, this is doing them out. They didn't do that. Patrick Garrett or Garrett live going on. They definitely didn't.

It's a thing, though. It's helps you increase. Yeah, OK. Yeah. So exactly like a Christmas tree.

It's very nice. Although I got away from it, I still keep I still have the thing in my closet. Oh.

What good does it do you like it just freezes it like in this nice tight shape. It's, it's just it trusses everything but can you cook it in that net. Oh yeah. OK, so you cook it in the net net made of I don't know it's cotton but there's something in it that gives you an elastic quality too. OK, it's food grade.

You know what I'm talking about Jesse. Now I'm sorry, but how am I telling you about a thing you don't know about easily, ok?

So. Yeah, I feel like with like food stuff, like based on your career, you do like you're always like. Oh yeah, like because I feel like I mean we can't go too far into it. But there's like this there's there's geographic differences in and meet kookery like in the north, there's like a lot more. You're really focused on the roasts and like like I said, I was at a roast when I say a smoked pot or a smoked pheasant.

Well, you were you were saying that originally you would get roasted.

I haven't told you that story yet. So I'll tell you now, OK, we would we were into this. We would take a ham, OK, and cut the bear off, cut the ham off at the ball joint and cut the bear's ham off at the knee. Then open it up on the inside of the leg. And cleanly remove the femur. Brian. Then you want to put it back. Now it's like laid out like a big, thick book, right?

Dry it off, brine it, rinse it, dry it, then. This is what this is the part I'm asking about, we would take gelatin. Just regular old gelatin, powdered gelatin and sprinkle powdered gelatin all over the inside of that ham meat glue, then roll it up and shove it through the funnel into the mesh.

OK, then smoke it.

Once you got done smoking it and it cooled, you could remove the mesh and you had a football. There was a boneless smoked bear ham that you could slice. And it would mostly be glued together.

Yeah, you know about that, but, you know, I mean, that sounds effective, you like it, but also out of all my geographies for, like, applause after that, I get your fist bump.

Real innovative. That sounds real innovative.

No, we didn't come up with this, though. It makes you buy all the parts that sausage maker dot com. Yeah, you are all right there, man.

I wish you why wouldn't you use other foods like Jesse did in the meat slapper sheet with the bear roast? Why would you use that? That gel stuff?

Gelatin. Yeah, that was only OK, because here's the problem. You'd open it up. What are you doing? Just fiddling with the photo. You know, you'd open it up and see it threw me off, I'm like, look over, he's not even remotely gay, know, not even remotely engaged.

What I'm talking about, he's here. Should I say you said I'm looking up sausage making dot com or whatever.

He doesn't have a headset. So that's what a fellow supposed to. Throws me off, man, if I can't even hold the attention, the people that are friends of mine that are sitting in the same room, my God.

So anyways, he flustered. He opens it up.

Yeah, opens it up. And what normally when you do this, if you make a boneless smoked, if you want to make a boneless smoked wild game ham.

When you slice it, it just falls back apart again. Mm hmm. And this was a way to try to get it to hold together. What do you think when I tell you that that's it sounds great, you don't judge it. What would I what part would I judge? It's effective and malicious. And I mean, I think it's cheating.

The is the gelatin. I'm asking I'm asking you as a profession, you said I was cheating when I use bacon. No, I didn't say that. I asked you. What you're feeling was about. OK, as a professional chef in a wild game enthusiast, and I'll point out that for I think that you like you're my favorite wild game show. Oh, thank you, Jesse Griffith. Thank you.

I was surprised to see you put bacon on because. People went down like a wild game back in black hole, or maybe it's used as a crutch.

Yeah, yeah, it's like wrap the tenderloin in bacon, but everything like bacon is bacon. They're making this bacon that. But how much better would it be for Jesse Griffiths to make something with bacon or that made it that made it that in my mind, that's like holding him to like a super high standard that made it cool.

Again, it's like or you can think about it like how much as Bacon allowed people to enjoy their game more. Hmm. You know, I mean, it's even if it's generous. Well, I mean, it's baby steps. I think that collectively people have come a long way as far as eating game. And if they got started by wrapping it in bacon and they're graduating to beyond bacon, then that's great. But maybe they had to start there.

You know, they need that bacon to kind of sand out that hard edge of of the gamey flavors or whatever it was that they found slightly distasteful about game or at least make it have a logo of a flavor, a recognizable flavor, you know, something they're comfortable with. So, I mean, I think, you know, bacon, bacon and an enabler. A gateway flavor.

Yeah. Like that. I forgot to add in your thing that talk about you put down bacon. And the roulade, yeah, yeah, we should we should tell people the name of this, it's a roulade. Yeah. Relation roulade. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Similar to like bin Laden with REW. Yeah, yeah. It's like a South Texas roulade.

OK, then I asked you about that and I told you about the gelatin thing, we weren't sure where you're going with the Barum thing. I just wanted his input. OK, if if this is like. Yeah.

Like approval or like that's stupid or maybe you'd be lying to him or maybe maybe you'd be like, here's a better way to do it or I'm going to do that tomorrow.

I love that idea because I mean a boneless ham too. And just in going in and be able to put it on a meat slicer and just get those beautiful slices that don't fall apart. There's a lot of merit to that absolutely bacon thing. I think. I think what you said, I get what you said about it being kind of a crutch. But I mean, it's kind of like I didn't say that. He said he said, OK, it's kind of like hating LeBron James because he's so awesome.

I know you won't get that, but everyone else will. LeBron James is the best basketball player like right now in the NBA, arguably one of the best ever. And people don't like him just for that. That is for being good. That is the while. That is the bacon of wild game. I heard about LeBron James. I heard about you. Clay was there. Someone told me that I don't know the layout of your house or yard or whatever, but someone told me that between your house and something.

Is tree targets in a basketball hoop? And someone said if they aren't shooting arrows or shooting baskets. That's right. That is right. I've got one son that's got a tree stand set up, like behind the basketball goal.

And I've got one son that is like eating up with bow hunting right now. Like, he's probably bow hunting as we speak. And my other son is a really elite basketball player for his age. And he is he is methodical. He has dedicated his discipline of the hoop shooting, arrows shooting.

But yeah, that's right. That's right. That's right.

OK, so tell everybody about I'm sorry about your first pick. Um, in our magical sit at the water hole, I didn't know that was the first thing. Yeah, I got mauled by a variety of TEQ species. Yeah, yeah.

Um, so it's it seems it's pretty obvious the pigs like the water around here. Every watering hole you go to is all screwed it up. She would tell people where we are. No one even knows where we are. Least we are. I can say the ranch can I can eat. They don't care. Go for it.

We're we're in south Texas, deep south Texas, deep in the heart to go further south, 12 miles from the coast, right? Yeah, we are.

We're close to the west of the Gulf of Mexico. You're so far south that the Gulf of Mexico is easy to hear. Yeah, yeah, that's how south. Yeah.

Um, we're at we're on the terror hacienda, Terra. I think it's wrong, but it's Maria Eternia, radio chatter.

Yeah, it's well, it's one of the greatest places ever. I think it's awesome. Um, but anyway, there's a variety of couturiers. This is like a portion of it. Yeah. I was used to be one big ranch. Right. And they just got split up over time. Founded in 1858.

Yeah. They registered their cattle brand in the eighteen 50s. Yeah. Three hundred years ago. Three hundred years ago.

That's this story that's doing a great job. Great job. Well I don't know if it's going to come in and Chris is going to come and say this, but I'm like Satina. I like a story that has a like a like this is a great setup. This is for people with with who aren't afflicted by a short attention span. You mean a lot of praise and he's not done yet. No, I just sat down.

I like said I feel like I'm reading a Russian novelist right now, go on set and I'm riveted. So Steve and I set out. Yesterday afternoon to go look for a pig. And we stopped this spot that was like a flooded. I want to be called a pond is like grass growing in it, it's kind of like a pond, just like a flooded area. Yeah, three thousand people in it. Yeah. But still Kildea running around Avelina.

Anyway, so we we go in there and check this spot. And tell everybody about the menagerie of wildlife that showed up. I was I was going to work that in as I threw them off, you can't you can't micromanage their story. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm just asking. Shut up.

So while we set out for a pig glade, set out for council guy, try to kill him with the ball, no sooner do we get to our our little pond and we see a colonial guy. So we talk about that. They came to check that out and ended up not working. Not working out, but.

They as soon as they left, we we had been sitting at the pond for a little bit, just glass and seeing what's coming in, I don't want to I know you're doing a great job and you're going to get all this, but you are going to get to my my sixth sense.

The pig would show up. I think I said something to the effect of let's just sit here and wait. Yeah, that's a good feeling about it. Yeah, Steve had a great feeling about the spot. So clay and dirt left and we. We just get up to move locations around this pond, because Steve had such a good feeling about it, we were going to stay there and almost like a premonition.

We stand up to move our move our location. And we made it 50 yards. And I look up and there's a pig standing out in the water. Like Johnny's dad conjured him. Yeah, and this is early afternoon. We are it's not even like evening. It's like we are afternoon, early afternoon. We are staring at this piglet's pond. We turn away from the pond, look back at the pond, there's a pig in it, in it.

We got in there quick. Yeah. And aided Steve's master radar. So that's about it. Yeah, and just just set up on it, made a poor shot and then made a good shot. Pig died. And. We took it, took it back to the Can-Am, got it, and then sat there the remainder of the evening. Because Steve still at that point felt it was a great spot to sit, so we all sat there the whole rest of the night until it got dark.

Yeah. Hey, I know Steve thinks you're doing a great job on this story. Oh, he's not, because I didn't choose to. There's a number of things he didn't tell. Well, there's a I get to the rest of the evening.

Oh, OK. I want to know how you feel about this, where you where you happy, I could tell he was happy. Oh, I couldn't tell from the story, though. No, he's not an effusive man. I was very happy.

He's not in the face of man. I feel sorry for his girlfriend. Not an affectionate, effusive man, well, about your pop, this is your this is your first time. Oh, yeah, this is Seth being pumped out.

Oh, that is a nice bore to know. I made it. I was out to order.

Had nice color. The nice for you know what they I'll tell you, I know he's not done, but I'm going to tell you an interesting detail about.

Seth, and checking out the scene, I don't know why, but for some reason along half of this pond, there's like an old bit of hog wire fence, like maybe at some point they want I don't get it just it's like a dead end.

Run down. Hunk of fence didn't really make sense to me. With like, what, six inch square? Yeah, it's like it's woven wire, but like it, I don't know, at some point it serves on purpose, like sheep fence. Yeah, like I think maybe to keep I don't know, we'd call it hog wire fence. Yeah.

You're probably going to clarify how tall that fence was, though, there in Texas.

It was a cattle fence there. What it was like a Neil guy could a foot tall damn near step over? Well, we were everything was coming up.

But but the point being my as I was wondering what this was, I think it's a remnant of my guess is a remnant of someone. When this water hole is super dry, maybe someone at one point in time wanted to keep stuff out of it. I don't know. I have no idea anyhow, circles over there and finds there is a big hole in it.

And you can come from one direction, but you like there's a fence block, and I do explain this, there's a fence sort of like cutting across like a third of this pond for some reason that isn't there anymore. And Seth found a hole in it, and he's like, all that boy came through this hole, but when he hit the door and it ran, he forgot about his hole.

Yeah. Oh, and just try try getting through the fence, but not where the hole where the hole was off from the hole.

Yeah, and now I think about that. We couldn't see that hole from where we were first set up. No, because I remember glass in that fence. I never saw a hole. And that big was probably while we were standing there watching the pond, he was probably making his way through that hole. But there was just enough, you know, stuff to where we couldn't see all overgrown brush and whatnot.

But it was weird.

He when he got hit, he just I am into that fence and then died, like, right there.

So we get the pig, got it, and then we got to the good part continue or good part of the cool, cool part, we we go back to the pond and set up for the evening and we're sitting there and all sorts of birds stalks, a nice white tail bark comes out and then Pavlina, show up. And there we first see him there probably 70 yards away or so slowly feed in towards us. Just slowly making their way towards us.

And this one decides it like he wants to feed basically right where we are. At one point, it was, I don't know, four feet, five feet from the end of my boot to you could hear them going, Yeah, wow, even I thought your lips I took a video.

I mean, you can hear him doing that on the video where you put that thing on your Instagram.

Yeah. OK, so at one of the signs at Stop Signs underscore West, you should just do something more simple. I've looked into it. It's just like not too many simple options available to all of you about your Instagram handle.

Yes. Oh yeah. And he's been there er at Signe's Seiners Underscore West you will find the Havoline and we're talking about going I'll put it on one of my highlights. Yeah. All the Texas I love.

The best thing is that now gets back last night and he just starts talking about the Havoline and how much he loves them all the animals ever.

The best thing is caught. He's smacking his lips. So yeah, as he's feeling towards us, he like eats something, walked a few steps, eat something, walked few steps and we observed him eating turkey shit.

He is in the video. You'll see you can see like a big white turkey shit. And I'm like, what is he doing? Like I was like, what is he eating?

Because he's just like, look, just luxuriating like, no, no, no, clean it up, man. Eventually, like I said, it is video you'll see is white, like clear his day like a white turkey shit and he just walks over and he's like, yep. Just so we watched him eat probably five or six of turkey shit right in front of us. Yeah. It's just like that is that's the good stuff. Yeah. And the last thing I told Steve was like, if you're a Turkey owner looking for a sign in an area where there's Avelina, you might have trouble.

You know, their claims are just.

Yeah, it says that he's ruining all the turkey side. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, that was fun. And I was going to say to you at one point when he was like right off the top of your boot because he didn't like. I don't know, we weren't moving, so he didn't, but even when they got downwind from us, say whatever else Lane, as you say, aren't that normal, I'd be like usually really wary.

But these aren't I mean, I've never seen a Havoline that you couldn't, like, put a little effort into creeping up on some way or another, you know, because vision's not great.

But these are like especially just like nonchalant. Yeah. Oh yeah. Jessy's when you got yours. That was T7 275 yards.

Oh yeah. At a run. Never mind run nonrelated at all. Very different. They're very different. Javelina.

Well we're hold tight. We hold like dad nuts still. Yeah.

No I mean I, I shot that have Ilina and then realized pretty quickly that I could have gotten a lot closer.

Oh I got yeah they, they were, they were pretty ambivalent to our presence even after one had been removed. Got you. Yeah. Interesting thing here too that I found it's interesting is that the have Havoline.

Which are native species and the pigs, don't they intermingle?

Yeah, and honestly, I'd never seen it until yesterday when we were, you know, you had just shot a pig and. A couple more started running and we and I'm glad that we were able to identify because one of those was a harlina then of Avelina and two piglets. So, yeah, they were they were cruising together. Yeah. When I shot my pick, there was halfway there too. Yeah. But I mean, that might have been just happenstance because I mean as a big bore, I mean I don't know why they would kind of know he just happened to show up but they're not adversarial to each other.

Yeah. Yeah. But I mean like pigs and deer don't really congregate together that pigs usually run the deer off if there's like a food source there. But I imagine the Havelange, the pigs maybe tolerate each other. Pigs run white tails off. They will, yes. Yeah.

Usually like there was a there was three deer with the pig I saw yesterday afternoon. And when the pig came in, the deer became alert and then just moseyed away and the pig went right where the deer were. It's kind of pushed him out. Clay, the next thing I'd like to cover is can you tell people the story of when you were a kid? It's a great story. Yeah. Yeah, I can please.

I was man, I always get nervous when I get on the spot for telling a story that I was with my cousin. We're hunting on public land in Arkansas. And we we found a country that had a bunch of hogs on. And I told my cousin, I said, let's put up let's put up two tree stands and let's. But to stands, let's try to kill two hogs at the same time, and we did and. Two hogs came in and the deal was, is that he was going to shoot, I was going to shoot a big bore of one came in, that was my deal with him, that if one comes in, I'm shooting a big boar because he was he didn't have any skin in the game.

You know, he was just the invited guest. You found the oak tree.

Well, and I was trying to my goal was to kill a big hog. And so we found this wide public land in Arkansas, found a while dropping acorns, pigs on Hank to tree stands in the dark, set in the stand thirty minutes after daylight. And a very nice tusked boar comes in. You can see his white tusks, Asao and seven shots about as you know, let's just say they were of, you know, decent size.

Can you dwell on Chote for shouts a shout.

A shout is just a young hog. How have I never heard that word till now. I don't come from the north. Probably we don't have any. Well yeah. I mean yeah you could say Piglet but show a shout. Shout o u t. Oh wait. No no no no. I'm sorry. Show yeah. Yes h oh 80. Shote not. That's a great show Joe.

So every day really nice for Sal and seven shouts come in and we could have done this a couple of times.

Was that coincidental. Right. Why would the Bauby with the side that was. I don't see that real common.

She's probably in heat. Oh yeah.

She those shows were probably of size about to be weaned, you know.

And so the ball comes in and what you do when you're trying to get a double on a bow kill, it's real interesting because we needed both hogs. We turned just right at the same time.

So we both draw in, you know, he would go hogs good. And I would go, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Kleckner up.

How far apart are these two stands? Where were side by side.

Oh, OK, Glocke, I thought you were side by side Siamese. They were just like side by side.

And so, you know, his pig would turn and the old double up. The old double up off that no one get enough.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so the pig, you know, we went back and forth probably three or four times and finally both of them turned just right and so quick we knew what we're gonna do.

We're going to shoot on three, you know, one to shoot, you know, a guy rode in a military sniper rode in and they have like a thing they do. Like, you're going like. Like I say, red. No, if I'm good, I go green, I go green, you go red if you're no good. And there's a there's a cadence to it, so I go green, you're red, then you go green and then it's like I go green, red.

And then somehow, like, I go green, I say green, you say green, and then there's the thing and then it's. Shoot that or something to that effect, I remember in this situation he was suggesting that for these situations, this situation, that is the weak link of the plan.

I mean, you know, you got to have this dialed before this works. But we had it pretty dialed. And so finally they turned just right. And I mean, these pigs are like 10 yards from us and we're probably 18 feet in the air. Maybe we're 15 feet. We both shoot back. I hit the ball right behind the shoulder. I was like 19 and I can give some archery until after this. But I hit this pig right where I'm at, right behind the shoulder.

My cousin misses, OK, he misses the south and the you know, my pig does just what you think he do. He kind of squalled and just they take off. Well, directly, you know, we're high five and I'm like, oh, man, I'm sorry you missed, he's like, awesome shot, you know, directly. And I told the story yesterday and said it was an hour, it may have been 15 minutes, some period of time extended and we hear pigs grunting.

And so make the noise. Oh, yeah, we hear pigs grunting and I go, Manesh, the pigs coming back in here and we look up and it's the sound and the seven shouts coming right back in. Same ones. Exact same ones. And so we've already killed. We've already got a big boar that we've got to go track. And my cousin, you know, he didn't he wasn't too worried about it. And I said, why don't you just shoot one of those shots?

You can just take it home and be good, eat and shoot one of those shots. So he rares back and shoots that shote and. He hit he hits right in the butt.

OK, the pig starts squealing, I mean, just absolute Telehouse free squealing like those audio audio experience. Hog has a say, you know. Oh, that's better.

They're like a good pig. Start squealing carried away. No pig. Start squealing in a in a in all pigs. Boar cells have a strong protective mechanism. I mean like a fight response to protect their young. So the cycle just starts spinning circles around that pig trying to figure out what's hurting it, you know, and nothing happens. The pig just keeps squealing. Well, finally, I mean, you know, this is just chaos, you know, and the pigs not going anywhere, though directly.

We hear I hear a noise that I had never heard in my life.

So that can't mimic that one. Yes, it yeah, it was it wasn't a grunt. I mean, it was an aggressive just.

But that's that's what breaks going. Yes.

Oh, and I hear the truck coming down to me, I hear something crash up the mountain and I look up and there is another big hog, big teeth, big hair.

I mean just like holy cow here, here comes another one. I grab another area. I said, I'm going to shoot that sucker.

He came in and gave the one of the most awesome displays I've ever seen in the wild, you know, out in the wilderness of a of an animal. I mean, he came in to kill something. He came in to fight whatever it was hurt in that show. And he comes in, bounced around looking for whatever it is.

And I read it back and I just put it right where I did on the other one flop.

Thiam nails him and he doesn't even run off for a second like he thinks whatever. He's got that show, it's now got me. And he spins circles looking for what's hurting him. And finally he realized something bad wrong, and he takes off down the mountain. By this time, the shot is is is expired. All the pigs cleared out and me and my cousin are high five. And, you know, I was like, man, I just killed two big boars tendering them.

And he's like, man, I got this show. I mean, we're excited that we get out of the tree and I go, man, which one should we track? First switch? You know, obviously we tracked the first one, the shot. So we start blood trail in good blood from the start. Man Start blood trail and down the mountain in the in the blood trail starts to suspiciously make a make a hook and starts kind of going back towards the towards the tree stand.

And I go, huh. He didn't go where I thought he'd go.

And in that blood trail comes right back up to the tree stand. And I shot the same pig twice.

And that was at eight o'clock in the morning. We go to blood trail in that hog. He made a second loop. And almost went the second part of the trail parallel like that, we jump that hog alive three o'clock in the afternoon in the ticket, I jumped him and he was probably four yards in front of me, too. And there was a pool of blood about as big as a teaspoon in his bed. And here's the here's what you can learn from it.

OK, this was back when the mechanical broad heads were just getting started and me and dad were using WASP jackhammers and for white tails, they were incredible. Incredible. So obviously, I was shooting a 65 pound high country with WASP mechanical products, which is just a bad thing. Tell me why. Well, because these these expandable heads are designed to give, you know, in a in a situation where you try to kill an animal with a bow and expandable broad head opens when it hits the animal, the blades extend and it sucks up a lot of the momentum, energy of the arrow.

So it it it's not it doesn't penetrate as well. You know, two blade broad heads prioritize penetration, expandable head prioritizes cutting diameter. And so basically I hit that ball right behind the shield, which Seth and I, we all saw the cartilage shields that these big boards have, which is the way they protect themselves when they put the shield. Oh, just smacked him. I mean, right behind the shoulder. I mean, it would hit tendering the Whitetail.

And I got I mean, a fair amount of penetration.

I mean, he ran off with arrows sticking out of him, you know, and but that that shield sucked the wind right out of that brought. Yeah. I just didn't get any. And this is a big hog. This is a at least a 250 pound horse, this one now.

And I had the exact same thing happen on a much, much bigger hog when I was 17. Did you recover that hog? No.

I learned real quick at three. I had three incidences with mechanical heads and then all of a sudden were like, oh, you can't shoot those with hogs.

So well, last night, Clay was sitting there waiting. The pig came to a waterhole. And he went up and deliberately shot it back behind the shield. Yeah, well, so and we went after dark and found that thing that I know 50 yards. Yeah.

You know, somebody asked me today, and I'll to be honest with you, I don't know the answer to it. Why did that pig die so quickly? All I know is that, well, the story was, is that this pig came into a waterhole. We were hunting some Neelima. We had Neil got on the pond that we were hunting while the Neil guy were there. They were out of range in the Neil guy are extremely spooky, wary critters.

And a pig came walking down to the pond in between us and the Neil guy. We decide to do a soft spook on the Neil guy. Because to try to go stalk this pig, because I know Guy wasn't going to kill, I just didn't think we'd get to him, we were losing. And so, yeah, I was getting dark quick. And so I took my hat off and just kind of waved it like this in those nilgun, you know, saw us.

And then we just kind of started moving away from the Naga and they just kind of trotted off. And then we turned and went just right to this pig and he was just in the perfect spot to be stopped. I got to within probably 14 yards of the pig. His butt was facing me. The wind is in my face. And I mean, I pretty much just walked up to this thing, got within fourteen yards of it on the ground.

It turns broadside perfectly broadside and I.

Aimed back at least a foot from the shoulder and just put it right there. I mean, it was. I would have thought it got liver, but I'm not even sure that it did, but I mean, how far the pig runs, Steve, he went 50 yards, was detonated. Yeah. So what killed that pig? I'm not entirely sure. I mean, because, I mean, the from the diaphragm forward with lungs, heart wasn't even touched, but he went down quick and he didn't bleed a drop.

May didn't even have that much blood in this cavity when we got him. Kind of a mystery.

But did you guys ever figure out what killed your big buck so quick? It was like a theory. Well, now that that one's easier. We can get we can talk about the I want to see, but I mean, that was just a cavity shot. I mean, like if you're shooting an animal and you're projectile point of whatever you're shooting is getting in, you know, on the north side of the diaphragm. Yeah, it's the diaphragm is like the muscle that.

Is is behind the lungs and heart that separates it from the gut. If you're poking something inside of their. I think you cut the hoses coming out of the heart, yeah, with the deer. We're talking about a different animal now. Yeah. You hit longs to. Yeah. On the. Yeah. I was looking at the along there was he lost bald blood pressure pretty quick.

Yes. He went down super quick. Tell people about the. The. I think it's called the Jesse Griffiths to cut three strip Bushrod skin and skin and yeah, on his big boards where you get down, you know, behind the shoulder where you got that that shield and that hide, when you're pulling it down, we'll start to hang up and it kind of it'll just it'll stick up at an angle. Explain the shield.

It's a it's it's this kind of I don't want to call it fat. It's not fat, not cartilage. It's it's very rubbery, dense subcutaneous layer. And I've seen it up to maybe four inches thick.

It's like frickin rawhide, man. It's like it's tough.

It's tough on everything. It's tough on bullets, stuff on arrows. I don't have knives.

I don't handle enough pigs were I forget about it. Yeah.

Like every whatever years that I go to skin a boy, I'm like, holy shit, what is this stuff. Yeah, I kind of always. And then when I was little different too. I mean some are worse than others you see, you can see like real bad on some. And I mean I think a lot of it like, like Clay was saying, it's like, you know, they fight a lot and they go head to head and so they're hitting each other's shoulders with their, with their cutters.

You know, that's where those you know, when they go when they bump head to head, that's where they're hitting is right there in the shoulders.

So they've developed it's almost like scar tissue, which is very thick, dense. It's I mean, it's like if it was, you know, I would liken it to like rubber, like a real thick sheet of rubber. It's very hard, but when you're skin in it, it just the high just it makes it stand at an angle. And so if you are if you're looking at the hog and say you got it hanging by its back legs with its back to you, not its belly, but its back to you, separate that hide into three strips, three vertical strips.

And what that does is take some of that pressure off and then you're able to just skin those strips out individually from the hind legs all the way to the head.

Yeah. Like imagine that you made your gullwing incision. Yeah. But then you turn them and do a godding incision down either. Loyn Yeah. Yeah. Cut down the outside of their loin. So now it's like he's slit crotch to throat but now he's slit like whatever the hell. Yeah.

It's like three, three sections the the left side, the right side and then just right down the back, you know, a little bit wider than the, than the back straps. But I mean doesn't really matter. It's not a science, but what you're doing is just alleviating that pressure a little bit and then you're able to push down, apply downward pressure with your non cutting hand while your skin and then just get that knife and just do it strip by strip.

It makes a world of difference. Yeah, it's a lot easier.

It's a good trick. You know, for those that want to clean a big bore, it's not not for everybody. But I think all the boards that we got this this trip, they seem to be pretty good. They smelled real good. I think they're going to eat well. Any better probably in that cell. You think so? The skinniest pig I've ever seen in my life.

Keith, tell everybody about your book, your hog. But yeah. Yeah, it's. And can I endorse it first or you want me to endorse it? I have you tell everybody.

I mean, I don't know if you want it or I mean. Well I'll say this. Yeah. That. I feel like you probably this is this is going to be this is a bold but fair statement, there's probably no one that knows more about wild, wild hog cooking.

Right, there's probably no one that knows more about cooking wild hogs than you. I mean, on the face of the earth, I doubt that. Whoo hoo! I don't know that person.

Probably, you know, some dumb old guy now because you deal with them, you deal with them as a hunter. It's true. You deal with them as a professional chef. You buy the sons of bitches. You sell the sons of bitches.

It's true. I enjoy. Are you I mean, I'm stealing it. You called me the hog apologist. I love that, I love. Well, yeah, Jesse had criticized one of our pigs and I'm like, if Jesse criticizes a pig, it's got real problems. Yeah, yeah. Because he celebrates all pigs. I try to make a case for him.

I love I love those things that so I felt I felt a little bad for that. So, like, you know, she was out at noon and I just I mean, I have a real I have a real soft spot for all animals. I mean, I really do. I still do. I get that. And I felt a little sad for that. So even though are actively endorsed you killing her.

Yeah, but I just I feel like, you know, it's like it's such a tough life to be a female wild pig. I mean, she's down to two piglets. Who knows how many she started out with. And I and I, I, I'm a I'm going to project this. I assume that you hate the personification of animals, but I'm going to do this anyway. But I imagine anthropomorphize.

Yes. Yeah. So, I mean, at some point yesterday, those piglets were like, mommy, we want to go, we want to go get in the mud by the pond. And she's like, it's noon. We can't go to the pond. And they're like, we want to go. And they finally annoyed her until she went to the pond.

I don't think it's actually happened. Wow. I don't think this actually happened. And I mean, she goes to the damn pond and, you know, and wow, it was I mean, this is so strong anthropomorphised. This is what I like. I think that that did happen.

Yeah. And they went like, Mommy, where's daddy? Yes, Daddy. Love baby at the pond.

And so they went to the pond and, you know, and now they, you know, this snotty little piglet, you know, now they're orphans.

Anyways, it's true, though. Everything he's saying is true. It's so true.

They had to go. They just wanted some whatever that was the mother.

Well, we tried to get them to true. Yeah. Course that I endorse that heavily. You know, in fact, in our posta last night, we ate a that was a six pound pig that was in there. Right. Yeah. Lovely. Yeah. So I mean, I endorse the the taking of all hogs.

I still have a little bit of sore spot. Yeah.

But I mean back to the notion, I mean I appreciate that. And I, I like celebratin pigs and I appreciate what they are as far as, as a resource. And I think that people they under utilize them. And I mean I like I said, I, I, I think we need to kill the vast majority of them and I support that. But at the same time maintain at some respect for them as animals. That's super important.

But I, I, I love looking at each individual hog and, you know, doing the assessments, you know, and all the boards look good that Sally and she was most drawn down pig I have ever seen. She was she was just skin and bones.

You know, how we did where you can go. The signs underscore West and see the Havoline eat turkey shit under south boot. Yeah. If you go to at Steven Rinella, I will post. A episode of my new show called Jesse Griffiths Judges, Your Heart is Jesse Grevers giving Clay a walkthrough of his hog and what he could expect from a culinary perspective.

Yeah, now I like it and I think I'm getting real good at it. And, I mean, that's that's OK.

Well, let's come full circle to the book. That's what the book is about, is that, you know, people come to me and they're like, what's your favorite recipe for a feral hog? And it's I mean, I try not I'm not not trying to be angry or annoyed by that. But it's like that's that's a that's a tough question.

Right? There is like, well, how big is your pig? Did you just shoot a 325 pound boar or did you just shoot an 18 pound shoot?

There's a huge difference in how you're going to show, show, show or guilt is a big difference in how you're going to treat those two animals. And I think that a lot of the problems that people have with with cooking a lot of failures that they have is they want to do a one size fits all approach to all those hogs. Therefore, what's your recipe for hog? If there's there's you know what what is the hog look like?

And how can you frame that in a way so you're not getting overtly technical or just talking over people or just making it just a hassle to discern the qualities of a hog.

So we when we did the book, we broke it down into four categories.

It's a small hog. It's a medium hog. It's a large scale and a large boar. That's interesting, do different buttery diagrams. Well, you know, step by step for all four of those pigs, like how to break that down and in each one of those is followed by a substantial amount of recipes that are mostly going to work for that category of pork. Now, granted, you can make sausage out of any hog. So but what we did, we try to put the recipes with the appropriate size.

And so it's kind of a field guide textbook. So now when people like, what's your favorite recipe for feral hog and the like? Well, I just shot a very fatty, sour good best thing you can do, you know, food wise.

And then you can open up the chapters, fatty. So, you know, I think you guys I do when you publish this print, it is do color coded tabs. We did.

You did this.

I didn't I didn't know you had physical print or. We know. I mean, it's in the works. Oh, it's like when you look at the book are the end pages. You'll see the. What's the title of the book.

The Hog Book. The Whole Hog Apologist Hog.

But now it's not out yet. We're still we just got to tell you about this whole deal. Yeah. We launched Kickstarter. We're self publishing it. So we did a Kickstarter.

We reached our goal, took us 11 days. We got there, though. Yeah.

So what do people need to do now to support? Well, I'll point out this. Jesse got Cofidis torn. Jesse, a new one. Yes, sir.

I mean, I haven't got covid, but no know about your business. The situation has been rough. Yes. Yeah. Like he had you had a restaurant.

You had to shut a restaurant down. Yeah. From covid Lockdown's. You had to like greatly like basically almost closed the other restaurant except for some outside dining.

But it's just been a wreck. Yeah. So yeah. But you're plowing ahead with this book which is good. Yeah.

But you know I think we're going to be OK, you know, we're just, we're just fighting it out, you know, and I'm just hopeful at this point. But yeah, I mean the book's been in the works for literally a decade. Like we have been working on this ever since we published the first book. We had actually started work on this prior to that being published and that came out in 2012.

So so the Kickstarter deals, people could kick down and presumably they get a book when it comes out.

Yeah, there's different packages. There's one book, two book, three books. There's, you know, we sort of butchery class. We sold, there's hats, some nice first light hats with the Högberg logo on them. Like, where can they get that head?

I had a guy messaged me yesterday about your had a Kickstarter.

Now, I mean, just because we met our goal doesn't mean we can't keep going. Yeah, definitely. We like to keep going.

So can people at this I don't remember releases soon. Presumably people can still go support the book and get the book.

Yeah, we think we've got maybe 15, 20 days left on the Kickstarter. So then what do they do? Can they preorder?

We won't probably won't have preorders ready until we physically print the book. So there's nothing people can do right now to help Kickstarter, then go to Kickstarter. But you said you're going to shut it down. Well, Kickstarter shuts itself down. We have 45 day campaign and I think we're. We're probably 25 to 30 days in, if I remember correctly. And then after that, I mean, we're going to get the book printed and so it should be available and we're self distributing everything and and self publishing assets should be available around March.

Fingers crossed. And then they can do it. Then we've got there's websites and stuff so you can contact us the hard. But the Högberg name. Yeah. Like that damn book. Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty cool. I'm proud of it. 115 recipes already. There's some pretty heavy, a lot of good pictures I guess.

Well so I'm partners in this book with the photographer who did a field. And so he and one of the great things about self publishing is that. We get to do whatever content we want. Well, first off, self publishing enables us to do any kind of Gore that we want, like, I mean, for lack of a better term to show really what's happening in butchering process.

Absolutely. I mean, and without any kind of editorial issues, like if I want a picture of skinned out pig's head in there, it's going it. Yeah. And but also speaking to that, we can put as many photos in there as we want and know what pictures I want to see with that.

I want to see a full a full vertical.

Full vertical picture of you with an apron on holding that big that big butcher knife you've got in your mallet, standing beside a big half skinned wild hog.

Yeah, it was like a cool background we're bringing in here.

Like, open up. That's the vision of the photo right there. Yeah, yeah.

I already took that photo. Can you make this whole. I'm getting stressed out about something. Oh, no. Can you make this whole Kickstarter thing, like keep going or somehow the thing keep going. No, no.

Because no was going to be his thing. We're wasting our breath because people are going to remember to go buy the damn book and march. Well, I mean, they'll be more promotion, we'll get back in front of people. They'll be able to preorder Goodell. He's not doing preorders. We're not not. Yeah, we're not set up for it yet. But after Kickstarter, you'll do preorders. We will get set up for that. We kind of want to have the book and like physical.

Can you do this? So can you can.

I mean, we're going to do some promotional stuff with Purslow. I'm trying to think here. It's like I feel like that people should hear this and they'll want to go by the book. Right. But they're going to get screwed because are going to go to the Kickstarter. Thing is that could be done. They're going to forget March or come around. They won't buy the book and it won't be good for anybody. And it won't be helping you out.

Well, we just have to get in front of them again. It'll happen, said a reminder on your phone. Listen, if you're there at home, a reminder on your phone and it says by Jesse's book, Come March or just go right now to Kickstarter, if you've still got if this comes out in time.

I thought our schedules, like it's not going to. How do you know I just heard the one we did last week was coming out January 4th. But I have already been already texted Corinne. Special powers right now. Like, I don't care what we got going on, we got to get this out for the Kickstarter deal. I love it. Yeah, we're we'll see. She might she might say your action.

Yeah, we better we do on Kickstarter the more we get printed in the first run. So that's I mean, that's a good deal, so we can probably get. All but maybe 10000 copies printed in the first round. You can buy that hogberg, so, yeah, I'm going to save all my almost save all my hog meat for when the book comes out.

There you go. I know the hipsters in L.A. do not have that hat yet.

I don't know. Oh, please tell me. So I'm at my fancy wine shop in L.A., close to where I live, buying a couple bottles of natural wine. And I'm wearing a first light hat, the one you're wearing right now in the shoot. I don't have a hat on. Well, the one you were when you traded me with a burger, you said, oh, also, you're not getting this beargrease hat. That is a lie.

You can have his hat now. Mm hmm. But again, I forfeit.

It looks good on you, Chris. Yeah, I really. Oh, that's great. I'm going to give me a burger, you said. But I do like the first lite version.

But my kind of this is my kid took to wearing clay, sent me a camo beargrease hat and that beargrease. Yeah. My kid took to taking my camo back. He's had, yeah, in my first light. He said, I like that and there was one right there. It caught on so much at his school.

He's he's 10. It caught on so much at a school that he got on my phone and texted Clay because he needed three.

He needed two for his hunting buddies at school and another one for his teacher. Oh, he's puttin orders in. Yeah. So then I was like you and the teacher wanted I was like, you better be awfully quiet.

Is, is, is forthrightness. He just you know, he said. I can't remember how he addressed me. I think he said, hey, this is and he said his name and he said, Steve's boy. And then he wrote this pretty articulate description, concise but articulate of why he needed three beargrease heads, which he got.

That's a significant percentage of kids at his elementary school or out of the or you say and the teacher called the teacher asked why he needed to for his buddies and one for his teacher.

Wow. Isn't that right? I don't I don't recall. Maybe I'm wrong either way anyhow. So there you are. And your fancy wine shop. Oh, yeah. So I'm in my wine shop. I'm wearing that first light hat and yeah. This very one, that very one girl. And I asked him, I was in there because it covered the girl shut down.

You can't go in it and you just tell him he was yelling into the window. Yeah. Yell into a guy.

And I was like give me like I was like, you got any orange wines? And he brings me to I was like, which one's more blue collar? And he thought that was funny. Then he I got a good wine.

I get that you like that, right. The the natural wine, orange wine, natural wine. Which one's more blue collar.

Yeah. A solid. It's a good. I thought it was too right. He's like neither.

No he was like we've strayed very far. Anyways he sees the first light and as he's like bagging up my wine he's like you don't often see a first light head in L.A.. And I was like, oh yeah. Are you Hunter? Like you hunt stuff. And he's like, yeah, a little bit of small game, this and that. I was like, Oh that's cool man. Yeah.

I sometimes work on the show Meat Eater, if you're familiar sometimes all the time he's like, oh I fucking love Meteor Man. I love it. Part of the story is, yeah, fans everywhere, like Chris, sometimes even in L.A., whine all the time, whatever.

I don't want to I don't want to distance yourself from it. No, no, no. I wear the hat all the time.

Give us some street cred with the OK. Yeah, you know, I just don't like something like this.

So you blow. It's not like a blow because I feel that you're distancing yourself.

That was his first step to telling you that he's going back to the puppet. No, I wear two hats.

I wear that hat or I wear my other, which is a media logo on a first, like camel hat. Oh, I was the only two hats. And now now it's going to be a third. Very sad. And then when I get said I do, I'm getting them in here. Is it good? Yeah.

You may have heard I've been doing well on hats, not doing so good on the income, but I got it. All right, everybody go by now in March. Come March, set their mind around. Go on. Go. Bye. What's the book called? The Högberg.

The Hard Book by Jesse Griffith this year. The Hogwood. Jesse Griffiths. Photographs by Jody Horton not to do the field. Yeah, I'm looking forward to win the Beard Award for Field did not last year got nominated.

Some British guy wrote a book about fruit.

He beat me in my category, sort of stung, but it's like, is he a farmer? Well, he has to do with fruit, he just wrote a book about fruit cookbook. I'm sure is quite what it was, says like, oh, there's a thing called fruit grows on trees. What more do I have to say at the book?

I'll take a nomination page like everybody else. Yeah, it's a real big deal. All right. Thank you, everybody. Shut it down. Cut.