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This is the Meat Eater podcast coming at you, shirtless, severely beaten, in my case, underwear, as a Meat Eater podcast, you can't predict anything presented by Onex Hunt.


Creators of the most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download the Hunt app from the iTunes or Google Play store. Know where you stand with Onex. In addition, a bunch of normal people that are sitting around here, we have from Phelps game calls Jason Phelps and Dirk Durham are here to join us.


And we have like we're making all kinds of sight and exciting, not sight exciting announcements and a little bit here. So stay tuned for that part. First, we got to take care of the other stuff. We're going to get into these two. But how's it going, guys? Good. Fantastic. All right. Don't go anywhere. And if we talk about something that you feel like you're qualified to speak about or not, jump in.


We're going to cover off on a bunch of junk. Then we'll get to you. This is the first installment of a recurring segment in the segments called We Need a Jingle for It.


It's called Chester Gets Rich Off Bitcoin. Now, Chester, this is really a story about Wall. I'm going to put in like a slot machines down there. Yes. Cashing out coins. Can you build a little something? Yeah, like a slot machine and something to signify a wall I vote. OK, so if you can hear an engine, you know, like an outboard.


Yep. And you kind of got the the PC now passing by through through the headphones, like left or right. Yeah.


Him hall and asked by and then a sound of like cascading money out of the slot machine introduced.


Chester gets rich off Bitcoin. The Continuing Adventures of Chester, the investor come to Buffalo. I said, come on. Chester. Once a wall I bought real bad, and so he sent how much money off to Bitcoin? Right now, about four grand. No, initially, initially, like a hundred bucks, yeah, and I was with them one weekend and it was shot up like five hundred dollars.


And I called you a liar. So I called you four hundred something, I think. Yeah. You're 100 bucks turned into 400 bucks. This is I'm not giving investment advice here.


I still think he's I still think he's going to get screwed in the end.


But no way. And over the weekend, you made like a lot of money. Yeah, I mean, over over this week. This last weekend, I'm going back. You're going back still to when when when we all covid. Yeah. Overlawyered already had it. But yeah, over the weekend I probably made, I don't know, like over 300 bucks. And you didn't believe me.


You know, I believed you but I didn't, I was still ignorant about I'm still waggner. I was even more ignorant then about crypto currencies and I said, I bet you can't get it back. I don't know why I said that. Yeah. And I you know, my favorite quote. Tell me on. The skeptic skepticism is the chastity of the intellect. So I was skeptical and Jessa's rake in all this money and I was super jealous and I said, I want to see that money bounce back into your bank account.


And then what happened?


I took it out and it went in my bank account. And while it was sitting at the bank, I think I lost 10 bucks on a bet to dinner.


Yeah, you said you gave me 10 bucks to put it back and see if I got it right here.


While I was sitting in my bank account, I definitely lost some money by sitting dormant.


And I sit and even though they give you, like, points or one percent interest on that stuff.


Yeah, I know, but I got it back in there and. Want me to Bitcoin right now is in a pretty new stage, would you rather you get you can do it one, two ways. I give you 20 and you owe me 10 or I give you seven. And I owe you three.


Give me seven.


OK, so I might have to then when I get that while I vote, you just pay for gas.


OK, so. So you took it out in order to prove that it wasn't that you hadn't. I thought you got scammed on a weird website.


No, I thought I was like, oh, we just heard of a guy selling ammo he set up. You know, no one can find ammo. We heard from an individual about him going to some website.


And this wasn't the name of the website for the websites like Bullets R US, you know, and lo and behold, he has all the ammo that no one can find.


And so he places a big order and his credit card gets processed and no ammo shows up.


Hmm. Got to look out for that guy, so I thought you fell prey to that by this Walli boat scam?


No, no, I did not. I just listen to my brother, who is very smart, smarter than me, and he said, you should start dabbling in Bitcoin. And he said if you put some money into it, that you can still feel comfortable, you can still sleep if you lose it.


You know, your wife gets mad when you sleep when I have covered. But I slept too much. Yes, that is true. But so I'm dabbling in it. And every day, Steve, it's getting a little bit closer to that I boat.


So now at this point. But then you want to put more money in. I don't want to get too deep into your personal finances, but you're in deep now.


I had some cash sitting in a drawer and literally.


Yeah, what's your address?


And I took it out of there and I put that in Bitcoin and I've been just slowly putting, you know, a hundred bucks in here and there. And Bitcoin right now is pretty level. I think a lot of people are new to it. So people are getting in Bitcoin, they're making some quick cash and they're selling. But just as of recent, a lot of people have been putting it into cold storage. Big companies like even like Fortune 500 companies are starting to dabble in Bitcoin.


Yeah, Tesla bought one point five billion, you know.


And they make. They make. Like another one point five billion off of that already, well, some turned around and then he turned around, Elon Musk turned around and suggested that it does seem a little high. So that kind of sabotaged his own deal, apparently, and said that the decision to do that. I think he said the decision to do that wasn't really reflective of his. He said something to the effect of to suggest that it was other other individuals were pushing for that move more aggressively than he was.


Yeah, I had heard like he like they make I think last year they made like 700 million off of car sales. And just in the short time that he's had that that money in Bitcoin, he's made over a billion dollars. It's kind of scary, dude, man. Imagine how many frickin walleye boats that is. It's a lot so much divide that what's the walleye?


Because, I mean, I'm not you know what what boat you. Yeah. So you're saying you're from your own walleye lake?




Yeah. I am trying to get like a nice, simple 18 foot lond with a motor on it. That's all I need.


So then you're going to quit your investment. That would be hard to do. Ike thinks I'm crazy for wanting to buy while I boat off of it. So when the time comes, I'll consult with different people and go from there.


Will I be included on who you consult with? Sure. I think you should include me too. All right. Well, that's bought a wallet. Bought. Me, I need a Walli boat partner. He did the old fashioned way, he just went down and bought that boat. Yeah, that's true. You get tangled up in crypto currencies.


All right, Chester, you can go back to whatever you're doing. All right? Oh, I'm sorry. How much more it might blow up? So much. You can just peel off. Peel off what you need. I could I've only made like. A little over a thousand bucks is all total, but it's we have made it yet. Well, I haven't put it in my bank account, but because you could wake up and it could be gone.


It could, but it's just going up and down right now. And I'm trying not to like look at it very much because I know in the long run, I think I think it's going to pay off and I'm dabbling. I'm not like invested just just a dabbler. All right.


Thank you, Chester. You bet.


You should go visit that Krypto mine in Butte, Montana. You know why, Bill, as you know, Bill Gates is down on it because of the amount of electricity it takes to do the computations yet and the fact that he's not into these anonymous.


These anonymous, untraceable on retractable. Terrorist style exchanges of money. Yeah, I agree that's kind of sketchy, but. I'm just trying to buy while I vote. OK? Yeah, Steve, isn't your mantra don't hate the player, hate the game. That's correct. OK, I think that applies here.


I stole that from Clay. I'm not the clay.


NUGA made it up. I stole it from him when he revealed to me that he's getting the he was lined up to get the vaccination.


In Arkansas, what I felt was pretty dubious grounds. Well, it didn't work out for him in the end anyways, but he was getting it as a public, you know, as a basketball coach for a school, it is.


And it's maybe that's fair.


I told you, it's what he's getting it now while he was about to get quite a while ago. Oh. And that initially fell through.


All right, Johnny, do your correction corrections while a while back, I don't know what episode it was, but we read an email from a fella that had found a new use for the Suvi kitchen appliance.


Why is that funny? Because it didn't even occur to me until you brought it up.


Like how I thought it was genius, right, when he brought it up to occurred. Like, how not a good idea it is. Oh, yeah. No, yeah.


I think all of us in the room are guilty because I was like, that's genius. Nobody called it out.


Everybody's like, oh yeah, a great idea.


Like, you know, next time the kids have a cold pool, I'm going to drop my Suvi machine in there or help. This fellow had a had a birthing pool set up in his house and just was struggling with keeping it warm.


And he had the bright idea to stick SUV wond in there and it kept the water nice.


My father heard there's a building inspector.


Yeah. Who heard this. So he's up on safety and he said there's a lot of reasons, a lot of failures that could happen, that you don't plug stuff in and stick it in the tub with you.




And he said by no means that appliance meant for that application and thus we should not talk about it or promote it. So there you go. Don't use a Suvi wand to warm up your bathtub water.


Or a close iron man. That would not work either. Don't drop plugged in stuff into your tub with you. I when you brought this up, I initially was. I was I really I was I really about the need to clarify, because I don't know how it really goes. Like, can you imagine?


Let me let's just say heaven forbid. Right. What winds up happening, where does the judge wind up being, Halmet? So you're saying that this that you listen to it like some knuckleheads on a podcast who are not like baby experts or bath experts or electricians.


And it's called like like the slogan is like hunt fish. Listen, but you you took birthing advice from them and now you want to hold them liable.


Dismissed. Yeah, or would he be like, by God, the buck stops here.


Megadeals they'll be held accountable for this transgression. By the way, he pointed out you really wanted to go that far. Yeah. You just have to worry about your own conscience.


That's what Yianni brought up. He doesn't want it on his.


It wasn't one of them. Yeah, well, it's all for you now, Johnny. Oh, Chrin, real quick. What was the general speaking of feedback? We got another feedback thing here after the renewable Bozak episode called There's No Free Lunch with with Renewable Energy.


You said there's a lot of people writing in. Yeah. Was it generally. Was it all over the place or was there like a was there like a consensus? There it was kind of all over the place.


He was riled up about this, riled up about the Corey Corey forwarded me, cause our our community manager, he forwarded me kind of the most, I don't know, salian of both sides.


And I mean, it was everyone's been all over the place.


Yeah. There were folks who were really glad that we were just even engaging the topic to begin with.


There are folks who just kind of railed on us, not asking hard enough, you know, or pressing enough questions or folks disagreeing with Nel's folks spouting off, folks thinking.


I mean, it was it just kind of ran the gamut. But there is a lot of response to that.


So it it hit it hit somewhere and they paid attention to just stop it. Yeah, I think we can, you know, come back to it at some point, they weren't being mean to the guest, right? I thought the guest brought it. I thought he did a great job. I don't think he was pushed. He was not trying to remember. I brought up the abuse and I'm not finishing any of my sentences right now, but asking tough questions.


I think we asked the toughest of all questions, even asked the question like, do you feel that the renewable energy industry, as it is, obfuscates some of the realities about what this would really take? That's like that's like watching 60 Minutes, dude. Yeah, yeah, and I mean, I should get like a like a. A prize for that, I think, hard hitting interview, I think his his kind of refrain and why that was the name of the podcast is that it's true.


Like, he's it's just there's no there there's always going to be a compromise. They're going to be a lot of things that are shitty if we as a society continue to live the way that we do.


You know, like you guys are listening to this podcast right now on your phone or on your computer, and that's battery. And that's like it's I mean, it's the way that we are living right now. So if we're going to not make those changes.


We you know, we got to do something so Elon Musk thinks we're going to go and populate other planets if we want to keep this human race going.


I don't even care about the human race as long as we all blink out at the same time. I don't want to have to go and then everybody else gets to stick around. I don't think it's going to happen in our lifetimes, but I get some bad form if that happened, if I knew it was just going to be like, remember that movie Melancholia?


No, were that asteroid they like you watch half the movie and you don't know what's going to happen, you know that everybody's acting like extremely weird and eventually realize that they know at some specific second the earth will be destroyed by an asteroid.


And everybody gets to go at the exact same moment. That's the way to do it. Scrap metal. The guy wrote in how they're making it way harder for like drug addicts and derelicts to turn in scrap metal. It's hard on crackheads now.


So when you go in now to a scrap yard, you got to provide an address. They don't pay cash for weirdly, they don't pay cash for anything but steal. It cuts down on construction theft because you got a place to send the check. Cause you to have an address. Thus eliminating, I guess I think it's prejudicial, but eliminating vagrants who might just be wanting to make some drugs, stealing. And he says that a lot of scrapyards have repeat customers he once watched, he's from a scrap yard.


He watched the minivan come rolling in with a 36 inch diameter piece of cast-Iron sewage pipe stamped city property. He said that the cops were there before they could even unload it. Scrap is high right now, three bucks a pound for no one copper. Steel is 150 a tonne for low grade. He was this guy that wrote in was getting big into scrap himself, but his mom doesn't like him leaving it all over the yard. He's got to get his own place and he'll get back into the business.


The super cold weather in Texas killed tons of stuff. Tons of animals, all those exotics that are from like Africa, Asia. Wiped them out. In fact, if you watch the episode we did on Netflix, we have an episode where we go, Neal Guy Hunting. I go with Jesse Griffiths and Rauno on a. Big ranch where the guy what do you make of that guy's name that went out with us to accompany us, help us out?


It was with an A I believe mine. Amando was it a mondo? Amando But I think they call it Amando for short maybe.


Well, I have an R in there, too. Armondo Belmondo. Yeah. They call them onto that ranch. I was talking to the guy there.


The family that owns it so far, they found this is days ago, so far, they just randomly counted up 86 dead Neoguri guy that froze to death.


And weirdly, some of them. Kind of came up and like died against a house on the tile, like there's like some solar radiant heat or something coming off that thing.


How they found it, I have no idea, like, why they would. What about the works and stuff, some dead ones, but they can handle it better, thus far fewer. And he said he hasn't done like an exhaustive survey. It's just that just laying all over the place. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah.


This article here points out that they've died on both high and low fence, which makes sense because, like, why is, you know.


In this what's in this picture of all these dead critters they got? Like what created what kind of animal looks like access to justice or anything, if that's what another body mind. Was telling me. Yeah, he said his body's place, all I believe he used the word all of the axis dear died, is that right?


She's that's the place that witness about. I don't know about. Oh, no, I was I was talking to them at the same place, all the access to your dad. GAO. There's a zoo down there, they had to bring the flamingos inside those interesting. They're like inside a restaurant. Yeah, crazy. Gotta wonder, like what you do with all that, right, who was pointing out that they wanted to go down and get all the back strips?


Yeah, no, we you're saying that, yeah, just go down, like if you woke up one day and there's eighty six dead Neil Guy. And what's that times two hundred seventy two for Kim backstrap you have if you went out and got them all. Yeah, that would be major full freezer with nothing. But you'll go back strips.


Yeah, but what's that what's that going to do to the industry down there.


I mean, it's got to be I mean, in terms of whatever industry there is around, in terms of whatever industry there is around those hunts, I mean, he's got to kick its teeth and, you know, Jesse Griffiths restaurant and he sells a lot of stuff.


So imagine that is going to complicate his world.


And then he only by I don't know what he's doing right now, but he only buys produce from taxes.


So it's all frozen, man. Yeah. And then all those people without, like, access, like their fridges and can't cook. He was running.


He turned his he turned his restaurant basically into like he had like a social media feed going about what they have, what key people can come get, what they have in what they're out of.


Just try to, like, feed people cheese. And use up stuff, so it was almost like this, like ticker-Tape of information about what you can come down and get and who's got what. Gowa, vulnerable animals. Only. I was Ben's new guy. This is the weirdest thing. A guy wrote in. Cale, who's not here right now. Is the singer from Ram Jam. If you go to YouTube and look up the Black Betty, remember that song, Go Black, but have you read the lyrics to that song?


No, my God, does that guy look like hell? Someone wrote in pointing out the bass player. But who's wrong?


It's the singer is. Sorry, I don't. I don't see it. Oh, dude, it's. And Kale man, do you see it said.


Hold on, hold on. It's Cale.


The screenshot you see that's just that's that's not that's not the right guy. Oh my God. It is is it.


The bass is the bass player. I could tell when he said I could tell what instrument he had around.


Oh so it is the bass guy humming. Oh my God. It is. It is.


I was looking at trying to figure out what he was playing, but it's kind of like a mix between Kyle and Corey, Brittany's husband.


Oh, yeah, OK. That is a bass. And I'm bad at music, man. I can't tell what instrument I'm looking at.


Oh, looks just like him, but that song's a weird song. They've got a dead ringer.


Everyone go to a minute or second 25 on their ram jam black.


The songs is good. He's talking about a woman named Black Betty, OK. And he likes her a lot and really does. She really does it for him. But then she has a child who goes blind.


I thought it was goes wild and blind and blind due to some horrible song. Wow. But it is a hit. This is a good one, do it in about. He's a tree surgeon. He wrote the things he knew I'd be a tree. So he thought it appealed to me. But a guy, a fellow tree surgeon guy had a nipple ring and the guy slid down a tree a little bit one time and a bark and a chunk.


Bart grabbed that nipple ring towards nipple right off of.


Another guy wrote out this, that's true or not, I have a hard time with this. We're talking a long time ago about how you can sell like I know for a fact that Buck Bowdon. Sold a how big was that movie? It's like a 70 some inch. Yes, giant. Sold it for like tens of thousands of dollars to a Turkish Bela's. For their collection, he even knows where it sits now. He would he would carry this big giant moose head around the rack, he carry around, he's at a show.


So if you go to like a show, like what's that thing in Harrisburg called the famous one great American Outdoor Show?


Yeah, that's where I met Buck Boden. So there's these sporting like these outdoor shows. Right. And outfitters will have booths and always have like a little photo album. A lot of them have like all kinds of taxidermy models, like Yoda boxes just sitting there out of folding on a folding chair with a photo album laid in front of them.


Like nothing like just does it.


Like not a marketer. Not a marketer. And so I feel like talking to that guy, so I won't talk to him a long time. He said he used to have this big moose he'd carry around, but he brought it to Harrisburg.


And some guys came up as a bunch of questions about it. They left and another guy came up and made the purchase. Because they wanted to put it in a sporting goods store is in the Harrisburg, I don't know, he could tell it is I can't remember, he said it wound up Maspero whatever there.


This guy is saying he found a porcupine albino. He says cabel has offered him 70 grand and is grandpa. What the hell was his dad says his dad turned it down.


That's where I get incredulous oh. He says he monitored. On a pile of sticks and pine cones instead. Yeah, I mean, I feel like his dad should call it and just so I could say really.


Seventy k, let's see, I want to see a picture of this albino, I'm sure if he's not sure, he'll send it in porcupine and if he writes in, maybe his pappy will talk to us on the phone.


We can grill them. We can grill them. I'm actually looking at pictures of Albino. Maybe there's a story that goes along with it that's worth seventy thousand dollars, I don't know. Well, maybe it's Elon Musk. No, but he's saying that it's his retirement plan. No. Oh, there's Chester's Walli boat get like a frickin old electronics package and everything, man. Yeah, he probably put two engines on that.


Soccer is pretty cool, this show. I got to report this because this makes us look good. This show solved the mystery. Not only we saved a ton of lives. By three, well, two through, not us, Dr. Adam Lazarus has saved two lives so far about Tunicates, this guy.


Was up along the muscle Shell River in Montana and fines like it had burned. There's a there's a prairie fire. And the prairie fire had stripped away all the grass and sage and whatnot from this little patch, and lo and behold, there sits a little tombstone. No explanation about the tombstone he was super curious about and took a picture of the tombstone. Then he even called the Office of the Land and the administration, the administrative office of the Land Management Agency.


They didn't know then we got talking about my new favorite book, Life and Death at the Mouth of the Muscle Shell. He goes and gets the book, reads it and finds a very thorough explanation of what happened to this dude. But that was unsolved for 15 years. This was 15 years ago that keeping them up at night. Yeah, keeping them up at night for 15 years. Who wants to sum up what happened to the guy? The guy's body.


In that book, the amount of people shooting each other, fiddling with guns. It's crazy. Oh, all the time.


Know, it must be three or four times there's someone's fiddling around the gun and shoots himself or shoots his body or whatever.


Yeah, well, we didn't have Hunter safety courses yet.


So this fella whose name was constant. Castlemilk, Quesnel. It's spelled QE and E l l. Ayatollahs, Chester. I don't know why this guy was five, six. Yeah, I know it's one of the interesting things about consent is that he was he was a short fella.


He was a tinsmith from Montreal and had a list. It enlisted in Boston.


But anyway, it sounds like they there was a raid, some CEU raided their stock.


And had their stock run around everywhere and this fellow and another fellow were were must have been right there, I don't know if they were shepherding the stock or what, but somehow they were part of this being raided a pawn, and they found his body with a whole bunch of arrows sticking in it back and arm.


And it looked as though if I don't really know how he's. Extrapolating this information from what he could see, he's saying that the sum of the arrows in the hands and were evidently shot while he had his gun to his face in the act of firing at them, disabling him so he cannot not use his gun, a breach loader causing him to turn.


And he's like just pupu. And so they're saying that, like, yeah. And they cut the angle of the arrow was as though he was holding a rifle, aiming and shooting. I think that's what he's suggesting. Yeah. Well, he might not be keen to, is the elaborate ways in which. Bodies would be sort of mutilated in symbolic ways and like things done to bodies to like send messages or to impact one's experience in the afterlife, so who knows?


Well, I also just feel that, like, sure, they might have hit him as you was in the motion of shooting that rifle.


But to say that someone's like taken a stick bow, I don't know what range. And they're like actively trying to shoot a guy's forearm or hand to disable it.


That's some pretty accurate stuff. Yeah.


You know, in like you, it's not like you're at the range, you know, shooting at a target. It's not moving.


You're like in part of a raid and you're like, oh, my hit hit him in the wrist.


And so you can't shoot at me anymore. Yeah. I got you skipped the skepticism is the chastity of the intellect. Mm hmm. Maybe they're really bad shots, and that's as good as it. I mean, they got him in the hand and they were going through the heart. Yeah, they. Yeah, exactly. And they're the guy they were firing arrows. Yeah.


They happened to hit him in their arms or he was hiding behind a stone. Mm hmm. And that's all it was sticking up. That could be true, but I wouldn't underestimate those bows because we're going to have we're working on having Michael Punke back on about his new book that's coming out The Fat about the Fetterman fight. Mm hmm. And they killed. I think the Sue. Called it like the Battle of 100 in the hand, but they killed something like 84.


Eighty four US soldiers with BWS. I mean, granted, they had there was 2000 against 84, but kill them of men. Like, mostly, I guess there are some firearms, they mostly did it with that. So. But he'd also read about bodies being left with 100 arrows in them, which I think is like you're basically saying to someone, yeah, you're Superdad, you're saying to someone like man, this is like kind of like where we live.


Appreciate you not coming round. Mm hmm. Go on. That's all I had. About consent now. That's pretty damn cool, though. What is get shot up for? Oh, fine, fine. On that tombstone. Yeah, yeah, not super.


And then learning about it just by reading the book, because, you know, what's especially interesting about it is that everything that happened, not everything, the vast majority of everything that happens in that book is underwater.


Yeah. It's under four hours for an enterprising fellow. Would get himself a scuba tank. And go down and look around and find cool stuff. Yeah. Dig around down there. OK, moving on, we're going to talk about Turkey, but as a segue to Turkey talking and it's almost like I almost hesitate to bring this up because it. Let me put this question to Jason. Do you know what I want? Do you know what Seth is going to present for us?


Yeah, yep. What do you feel? Are you like just do you love turkeys and you're just interested in all things turkeys, or do you feel like this negates something? Or do you feel that it like does this diminish the work of a Turkey caller or is this just why not know about everything that's true?


No, I think I think it's something we strive for, like some of what we're going to listen to, like, man, you know, I hate the sound of a box sometimes, but like, man, that's really Boxey sound. And so it just it makes me think like, how do we sound more like that, even though we all know what we've been doing works and we had a little conversation before you got here, like, you know, cadence is important.


You know, some of the other stuff that doesn't matter as much as the sound. You know, I don't want to necessarily get ahead of ourselves, but like the Seventy-Seven Upper Hand coming up, like, you know, we've always been oh, seven to nine. Yo, yo, you know, one lesson, you're not going to call somebody else. You're not going to call the bird in like seven or nine. And then you hear this real hang out there just.


Yeah. And so it's like it always makes you think. But I think is a guy that tries to sound as much like the real thing, like you always strive to like a she might sound off, but I think a lot of real hinz aren't great turkey collars. That's what got me interested in finding out about like looking this stuff up is I found that it was more helpful to me. To go on YouTube. Like in learning about learning Turkey calling, right?


It was almost more helpful for me to go on YouTube and just fine hands, you know, find video of hands, make a noise, because oftentimes, like so often when you're out in the woods.


And you hear Turki's. They're not doing the playbook. They're not always doing the playbook that you're doing, but you have an idea of the playbook, but then you're like you'll be sitting there in the dark some time and just hear some just like open a tree going nuts.


And you would feel funny doing that? Yep, yep. Like and this is Hannah on YouTube that if you heard a person out in the woods. Did the raunchiest loudest Seventy-Seven Yelp in a row sequence? Be like, was it doo doo? Yeah, yeah, that's a guy. Yeah. Or you'd say, you know, after 34 you'd be like, that's not a dude.


Yeah, because nuts. The guy he passed out by. Now, it's really interesting, man.


It's really interesting to go watch stuff they do, but then it's worth bringing this up to you. You know, the the tenth legion, that kind of this famous book by this guy, Colonel Tom Kelly.


Mm hmm. Phil's subject matter expert, you're Tom Kelly expert, no, Ben's just been showing it down my throat for the last few months, so it's hard to avoid.


It's a good book about turkeys, but in it. He tells the story where he's out in the woods one day. And he's watching a group of like him, if he's watching, he's watching either a group of hands or. A group of Thom's. Going about their business. And a hen shows up. Nerem insets, the just yelping her ass off, OK? It's like spring. And he said the Gobbler's didn't even pick up their head. So.


In terms of, you know, there's a big thing about like what mood are they in? Yeah, like what are they got going on? So if you do something and it doesn't respond in your heads, like he doesn't think I'm a hand. Right, yeah, but then that trickle well, but then here's a handstand in there that didn't pick their head. Mike Chamberlain was saying that their testosterone levels change daily up and down. And one day I had that problem one day, one day their testosterone might be low and you called him and they don't give a shit, but the next day you're on that same burden.


His testosterone levels have risen and he's like, you interested?


Yeah. Sounds like a black man.


I got it. I got a little IDM hatching right now.


Testosterone injections for Turkey's corno. Testosterone you break, too.


Laughs Yeah, I see. I've always been like I've always subscribed to the idea, like, you know, their hand up. And if they got there for sure thing, like they're not interested. But I'd be curious in that example you shared, like when the real hand was next to like it was it truly a just a flock of toms or where they locked down on a hand? Because if they I would I would got to read the Tenth Legion, I would throw a fit, I would pack my calls up and go home if it was nothing but times over there, no hands lockdown.


And they didn't even look at me.


I'm like, I'm out of here. You have to change. I've been haven't I had a big fight with Clay Newcome down in Texas where we went out one day bright early in the morning. To rattle boxing, OK, and we had reason to believe based on Jani rattling a couple of basically into the truck with them, we had reason to believe that on this property, rattlin worked very well. We go all the morning and nothing. What's going on, you know?


Then we go out in the middle of the day and one after the other. I don't think is that their testosterone level spiked. I argued to Clay that I'm like, for lack of a better word, I think books are bought at two o'clock.


And I think in the morning they're kind of like, oh, those are doing this. They're moving around. Stuff's going on. And then everybody just laying around board off their asses and they hear a rattle and he's in the dozer bedded. And he's like, oh, I run over there real quick, I'm going to miss out on something exciting. Yeah, I'm thinking what's clear thought that was a stupid idea.


I'm thinking he's already checked the betting area. He knows all those. Those are not. And he he's like, whoa, somebody is fighting over hot dog over here.


Boom, I got to go. So maybe not bored, but you know what I'm saying. His mood changed. Yeah. Yeah, his circumstances changed. In some kind of predictable fashion, at a certain time of day, yeah, maybe their testosterone rises with the temperature. Why doesn't. If you're a turkey hunter, you know, springtime means, oh, listen, for some guy, we're off ripping, birds chirp and frogs making noise, taking a big ol nap in the afternoon, out in the woods, waking up, got a tick on another gobbler going off.


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OK, Seth, I don't know how you want to do this, I want to. So this is like you got some good ones. I have a couple here. Let's do this first. Which one of you boys? Derek. Jason, which one of you boys wants to give us like a conservative hunter sits in the woods? And goes, yep, yep, yep, yep, I going to use your caller Yoni's doesn't matter to me, man, whatever.


What do you think is going to be the most conservative for you sitting in the woods? I'm not using either of you. I'm used to meet Utako. OK, this is a conservative turkey hunter who's like me, I got to play it cool, I don't want to give these turkeys the wrong idea.


OK, now, was that like that was probably still like they're just out of the tree or still in the tree, like real quick, I call that conservative no Seska to share with us, like, some some turkey noises. Yeah. So I love these things. This first one just totally debunks the the like. Don't call too much. Seven to nine yell kadence.


Just nonstop. It's like having a zoo out in the woods. That's the hunter, that's the hunter. I love it, so after hearing that, you know. Maybe you could call a little bit more. Oh, yeah, because they don't come in here, I was like, I'm going to give them the silent treatment. Yeah, no, I don't. Maybe some people are. Maybe some people are like, dude, I'm going to pour the coals.


There is. There are.


I can't read the guy's name. Someone that just got one with. Yea, I guess maybe he does know that name. He was like, there's so many guys that have been like national turkey calling championships, but I believe the guy's name is Billy. And that was the first guy that J I think had heard and that I had heard where like even in the dark on the tree set up. His attitude is poor.


The calls to him just talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk and be like, no, I am the only person you need to be focused on right here, me and just hammer at him. And he had great success.


I like that guy. That's your style? Yeah, I don't the whole, like, be quiet, be patient. That's that's not good. I want to be like that and I just want to run that call as much as possible.


Here's another one. S Oh, OK. So this one is a hand that if if I heard this hand, would say I'm in Pennsylvania and I'm walking through the woods and I hear this, I'm like, that is a dude on a box call. And he sounds terrible. This this Turkey's clocks. Or more like squeaks. Like some sound good, you'll hear a couple, they're just like squeaks. Hmm. Like, every once in a while, there's one there just like a squeak, and I'd be like that's do just like messed up these guys.


Like there's a problem with his Xbox call. Yeah.


Yeah. So, yeah, real turkey, you got Nago on his one more good one you'll be I'll clean this all up. Rowville this one. This one's just a hen that gobble that's gobbling.


Oh. Which is interesting. That's the hunter turkey.


That's a that's a that's a hen. Yeah, and if I heard that in the turkey woods with a bunch of pressure and maybe like that to do on one of those gobble.


Yeah. Things got Shaker's. Yeah.


So that's a real turkey. This this is right here.


It's almost like a jet gobble too. Yeah. Kind of half.


OK, one of the things we wanted to do and heading into this is inherent in talking about some of this is. We're trying to get our favorite turkey biologist, Mike Chamberlain, what's his what's his Instagram thing called? Super interesting man.


Oh, I love his posts. Wild Turkey Doc dude, they should have a B.


He's the only person that can be on Instagram. Like Instagram should just be his thing and everybody has to follow it. Yeah, because it's like it's just like information. Useful, applicable information. I like how he apologizes, too, for like being too long, like he knows he knows, like how much people can tolerate and how much they want to read the times to be like.


All right. A little bit longer this Tuesday.


He only gives you one a week. Yeah. What's this thing called is handle's wild turkey doc. Yeah, just one word and yeah, I highly recommend checking out Instagram should be called Wild Turkey Duck, and when you go, it's just his stuff. You can't start like an account, start putting your own stupid stuff up there, it's just his stuff. So Chrin, ask him a question.


We're here because I don't think we asked this before or Kernohan. We wanted to ask him mainly.


What is going through a turki's mind when it's being called at? Right, we do all the talking about, like mimicking the sounds, but what might be. On the tour, like the one receiving the noise, what is it really? Is it really in there being like, hmm hmm. Is that a person? Or what? Yeah, or is it like that telling me to come is you telling me to go, they're telling me that there's good food over there, right?


Yeah. Does it sound like sex, sex, sex, sex, sex, food, food, food. That's all. Betty Lou over there. I remember her from last year.


Steve was dying to know what on earth is going through a turki's mind when it's called that?


Well, that is a good question. Unfortunately, we can't interview turkeys, so it's hard to know with certainty what they think or perceive when we call to them. But what we do know is that turkeys at least partially recognize each other based on their calls. We also know that because of the way hearing works in birds, that they perceive calls differently than we do. So you kind of need to think about. So how does a Turkey hear? If you understand how they hear, then I think it helps kind of navigate well, what are they perceiving?


So, yeah, turkeys, they don't have an external ear like we do, so they don't have flaps on the outside of their ears that help funnel sound into their inner ear canals. You can see the ear canal on the side of their head. It's kind of just below and behind their eyes. But without an external ear flap, they have to come up or they have to use different ways of determining direction and distance to sounds. So what what turkeys do is a sound comes into one ear and the ear registers the volume of the sound and the other ear acts independently to register a different volume to that sound.


And if you watch turkeys, you'll see them do this. They constantly are turning their heads. That allows them to determine because they can figure out through that volume adjustment, where is the sound coming from? Left, right, up, down. And as they turn their head, it helps them kind of refine where exactly is that sound coming from? And turkey hunters will tell you, you know, they have this uncanny ability to just pinpoint the exact distance to a sound.


And the way they do that is because those sounds are coming in their ears and being registered by the brain differently than we hear sound. And because we also know that birds in general hear different frequencies in calls than we do, we call to a bird and there is a very simple yap, yap, yap, yap or whatever sound we make. And they hear that differently because they can perceive different frequencies than we can. So you kind of factor that into the equation combined with the way that they hear sounds in their ears.


And that allows them to perceive much more complex messages in calls than us humans are capable of perceiving. So we don't really know. Again, I've never been able to interview a Autom to ask him, but we do know that birds in general and turkeys obviously hear their world differently than we do.


So we know because of how cute their hearing is and because of the way their hearing works, they can pinpoint direction of sound with precision. And a person once told me he was a famous turkey researcher that imprinted birds and watched their behavior. He told me that turkeys have an incredible sense of place.


And what he meant by that was they hear a sound and they know exactly not only the direction from which that sound came, but where that sound originated from on the landscape. They essentially have a GPS and they can pinpoint that call or that sound came from that spot and they can go to that spot. And we see this really commonly in some of our research where we are tracking hunters and Turkey simultaneously. So we have Thom's that are running around with GPS units on and we have hunters that are carrying a GPS in their jacket.


Huh. It's bizarre, but turkey hunters have we know this occurs, but we've had numerous situations where a person ends up calling to a bird from a spot, uh, leaves because the turkey doesn't show up and three or four hours later, the bird ends up at the exact same spot. The hunter was sanabel and incredible. And that just tells you that the bird knew exactly where that call was coming from. Yeah, it just wasn't in his routine that morning to walk.


Over to that sound, he said, you know what, I'll go check that out a few hours from now, because my morning routine is I'm going over here and do this and then I'll I'll get back to that sound. So to take a little detour. Yeah, yeah, yeah.


And and I've actually put some maps out on social media showing what that looks like. It's really crazy. They they'll end up hours down the road right where you were sitting.


Wow. Yeah, that's that's why that's why God made Knapp's 100 percent like I'll often make the mistake of having my nap somewhere else, like go off to a good nap spot. What you should do is your last call session at nap time. You should pick a good spot. I sometimes do this like a good little hiding spot. Where you can call nothing comes and then take your nap right there. I read a book about that. I'll tell you a story of a choosing a bad nap spot, please.


Hmm. Johnny was there.


This was two seasons ago when we took Maggie and Tracy on Durkin for the show, the the Turkey, the Maggie and Johnny Weir after we called two. And then he ended up drifting away and we laid down and took a nap and I woke up to a turkey button and. Opened my eyes and the turkey's standing two feet from Maggie. Oh, he had come, he had come and was standing like she could have reached over and smacked the bird, just like Dr.


Chamberlain was saying. Yeah, no kidding, man.


Just walked right into us. There's a bunch of people sleep in there. You know what else I'm thinking about as he's answering this question?


Is this idea that.


You know, when we look at deer, what do you see, right, like when you look at your setup camo and all that, like you're looking at and you have like an idea of what it looks like, but then you get into how deer's eyes are or doux eyes or whatever their experience is probably totally different.


Like you can't even you'll never maybe not ever. I can't foresee where you would look through a thing that shows you what it sees. But all indications are it is not seeing what you see. And so you're sort of like extrapolating, you know, I guess why trial and error so expensive, you can't just look at me like that's hidden. It has to be more like I've done this thing and here's how the animals respond. I've done this thing here on and respond, I don't know what it is.


I can't replicate it, but I'm learning that this type of thing really gets their attention.


So, you know, this type of thing, they just look right through. Abernathy, who's a biologist. Was saying one time about iridescence on birds and bird, I know you talked about what they hear, but you talk about bird vision. And he thinks that one, a turkey looks at a turkey. It just is not seeing what you see. In terms of the iridescence on those feathers, so when so when they're looking at like a foam decoy versus a real bird, it might not even look close even to our eye.


It looks like another is not not what he said.


He thinks that fan is just screaming at that turkey. I agree, I think it's like fireworks going off. Yeah, and then, like now back home, like the big things, like real turkey like stuff or decoys, you carry like a full blown bird around with you. And then that way you get the full you know, you got a real bird sitting there. But I wonder if it's like you said, it comes back to testing. Like, you have to test that over and over and over out in the field to see if it works any better.


He he was very early a long time ago. This abernathy's started messing around with real turkey feather decoys and he just took a decoy and got a hot glue gun and glued the feathers onto the thing. And he had one with them when I was hunting with them in Florida. And I came in what he said, he said something like, Thirty two turkeys have seen this coin. They're all dead.


That's good. His old works. What constitutes a, quote, unquote, good call versus a bad call we have?


Well, let's say we as a human being, I can listen to a call and think, oh, that sounded pretty good. But we have absolutely no idea what a turkey thinks is a good call or a bad call. And any Turkey hunter can tell you this. If they've hunted enough that you use one call and get no response whatsoever and you take a different call out of your vest and all of a sudden there's a bird that's gobbling and he's right there, why didn't he call to the first call?


And he did to the second or, you know, another experience we've all had is you start calling and suddenly there's a bird, a hen that's nearby and she's mad as hell and she approaches you and starts cutting at you and yelping at you. And we don't know what she's thinking, but presumably because we know they recognize each other based on their calls, she either doesn't recognize you and wonders why you're there or she thinks she recognizes you and she doesn't want you there.


I mean, that's the two logical assumptions I have. Either way, for whatever reason, that call caused her to get upset and she comes and tries to find you so that she can tell you that she's upset. So we don't really know. I mean, I can call OK now, but I killed turkeys years ago on my call and sucked. I sucked.


But there was a bird out there that didn't agree with me and thought, hey, that sounds pretty good. And I think a lot of it goes back to the ecology of the bird because a hen she's thinking in her mind, she's geared to reproduce and lay a nest and hatch in the spring. She has grown up around other turkeys and she recognizes their calls and she recognizes what they look like. That's the other way that that we think turkeys recognize each other's based on their heads, which is one reason why you'll often see turkeys when they're fighting their pecking at each other's heads, because that's their form of recognition.


So you have a hen who's geared towards reproduction and she is going to be by herself and spend part of the spring alone. She's been gregarious prior to that, meaning she's been in a group prior to that and she recognizes everybody in her group. The Tom's on the other hand, they're geared towards reproduction solely and their fitness improves by breeding more hands. So the more hands I can breed, the more fit I am. Mm hmm. So in his mind, he may not care whether he's hearing Sally or Janet, Susan or whoever.


He's just thinking I can reproduce with that sound and that's a good thing.


So it makes sense that Tom's would be more responsive to a wider variety of calls, you know, a crappy call or, you know, a world champion, grand champion caller, because they're thinking with reproduction on them, you know, on the mind. That's the way I kind of I kind of look at it. Given how acute Turkey hearing is, you know, do do we need to screech at them at the feet figuratively, that the top of our lungs and we when we call to them, do we really need to be like that loud and obnoxious?


Well, they're going to be some people that disagree with this. But no, no, we don't. There are situations where using a really loud call when you're trying to locate a bird, maybe the wind's blowing or you're trying to project sound in the environment at distance to hope that he can hear you. Mm hmm. Yes, that's grounds for squawking away. But if you're fairly close to a bird and when I say fairly close several hundred yards, you don't need to call loudly.


This bird can hear very, very subtle sounds. And we've all probably been in this situation where you you're scratching the leaves or you reach over to pick up your call and you make a noise and a bird growls. I tend to call louder than I think I probably need to. And the reason I say that is one of the best turkey hunters that I've ever been around. He calls so soft that I can barely hear him when I'm sitting with him.


And that's that's the truth. It's crazy. And wow, before I started hunting with this guy, I tended to call him much louder than he he does. And I was successful. It worked, but sometimes it didn't. And when this guy calls, he calls so softly and so subtly that I'm serious. I'm sitting 10 yards from him. It's it's so soft that I can barely hear the notes. And yet birds come right to us. In fact, I don't even call when I hunt with this guy anymore.


I just let him call because, what, few times we hunted together last year, we had birds in front of us almost every single time. So I was like, well, you do the calling. I've also been in situations where I made calls and just scratched in the leaves or did something really subtle, really quiet. And birds are responding from hundreds of yards away. Hmm. And then kind of back to some of the other things we've talked about that allows a bird because they can hear so well that allows them that GPS and internal GPS to figure out that's where that scratching and leaves came from.


I'm going over there and I'll check that out. I do think in general we tend to call too much because the bird, once they hear you, they know where you're at. They know. OK, well, that call came from right over there. So once the bird realizes you're there, in my opinion, you're better off to call quietly, if at all. Once they've responded because they know you're there and they know exactly how to get to you on their own terms, which unfortunately often ends up with them winning and us losing, but they know how to get to where you are with precision.


Man, I'll tell you all this talk about the randomness of it or the crazy noises there is, because I've just seen it so many times, people that are just so good. Like Jason, you know, you've talked to guys, right? Yeah, like, I've just I've gone out with guys, I've gone out hunting all morning on the place, OK, with whatever results. Sometimes good, sometimes not. But then guy, I'll be in the afternoon like, oh, go take a walk.


And he just go out and like. Starts calling. You know, to get a gobble and it's like someone put in like a ton of pressure squeezing a zit man, because he keep like very quietly, just like going, going, going, going, going, going, going, going.


And also like it's like the thing just like can't like he lays it out in the way that the bird just cannot help itself.


Like, when that deal goes out, he's going to call in a Turkey morning or afternoon. Is he tricking you with timing? So like the old time? No, no. The old timers, like the old timers, like we were always the young bucks that get up. You want to hear all the birds on the roof? Just get that, you know, that fun. And then the old timer, he's like back at camp, eating breakfast, drinking his coffee.


He's let all of us come back, take our nap. He's going to go out noon and kill the bird.


No, this isn't the old this little new trick, OK? This is like this is like the four or five o'clock.


Not he's just going to get him.


He just he just like, I don't know, he's got Cork's turkey experience.


So it comes down to. Does he do anything different, like you don't know just the mood? I think it's like a lot of mood reading. Also, the dude lives on the property, right? Yeah, so he kind of knows, like where people are, people mean he probably had some of the GPS trackers on that second.


And you didn't know they were just going here. But now, you know, kind of going back to what he said, like, you know, even like scratching the leaves, like, is there something that like a Jake, you know, like do the different birds as they mature? Do they start to hear different? Can they differentiate between like sounds like that's one of the things I'm just kind of the nerd out there under the tree, like, why can I get this three year old bird to break away?


But yet these Jak's come running into, you know, of course, their hand up or whatnot. But you always wonder, like, as they mature, do they become smarter or do their ears become better or is it just truly, you know, I mean, any new breed, all these hands. So I'm not worried about that. And it's over there in the brush. Yeah. You know, like, how do you break that code?


But that's why, you know, I kind of mentioned timing because, you know, turkey hunting timing is huge. Like go let all those hens go lay. Now you have a board as Tom sitting out in the field or, you know, I don't got anything to do. So now you strike them up at midday in that time, more so than ELAC, more so than any other animal, just because the way that they have to lay on that on that clutch of eggs, you know, it's like you can get that time that you fought with all morning for the last week straight, but you go hit him at noon and that thing's going to come in just like that.


Yeah, I feel like we talked about this before, but it's like to not go out at daybreak. Feels dishonorable.


I don't like it. Yeah, but then there's a lot said, just like lay around, go out there, 10. But you feel like you're coming in in the middle of a conversation, I agree. Now, so tell people what's going on with Phelps game calls, man, oh, so we announced what it was almost two weeks ago now that, yeah, you're my new boss. Can I call you boss? Mm hmm.


I would first say that we're colleagues, colleagues and coworkers. We're coworkers. No, no, no.


So we're going to be able to talk about technicals. Right? Be the first time I can finally, like, talk about Chicago and let it rip. So August 17th, I mean, were last year and it was just me this time last year, August 17th, talk about this vertical call line that we had tried to launch, I think two years ago and never really got feet off the ground. And I was here and I didn't get it at that time.


It took me out to breakfast. Hey, would you ever be interested in, you know, talking about some folks game calls? And I remember that distinctly. No, I'm not interested. You did? Yeah, I never heard that. Yeah. So I told Dirk Durham, are you there for that conversation? I was. No, no.


We're sitting out there at the at the Western on the sidewalk eating breakfast.


And I don't know, we approached you and you were like, oh no, wait, wait, wait. Like four more hours.


So then I mean, you're not a man of conviction. No, no.


Well, I you know, it's like maybe playing your cards right. Like you don't want to just come out like heck. Yeah. I'm looking to maybe move on or do so. I thought maybe you sent the guys out to, like, go fill out forms, test the waters a little bit.


Yeah. So I'm like, no, not really. I'm kind of happy where we're at. I'd love to, you know, get this project going with you guys, though. And then fast forward like four hours later we go to lunch with Josh and Garrett. And Josh brings the question up. I'm like, yeah, I mean, I'd be willing to entertain it. I want to look like it's just and then it got some legs from there.


And I can remember, like on the mountain all September, like I was with Johnny in Colorado and they're like, yeah, Josh is like, yeah, Johnny. I don't know if he knows yet. Like we don't need to talk about. It's like we're sitting there hunting like I don't know if Johnny's knows at this time I'm supposed to say anything. And then by time we get like to New Mexico, like I'm sayin like trying to sign PDF so that we can open the books.


Up until it was throughout the fall, I've spent pretty much the last four or five months of my life like getting this deal kind of straight with everybody. And yeah. And now we're here with kind of what launched this whole thing and the release in the your ex Volpe's Turkey Colene.


Yeah. And you're going to you're staying on board. That was a stipulation.


Oh yeah. Yeah. No, and that's I remember you saying you'd signed a 20 year contract.


I, I, I wanted to I'm worried they said five years and I think I'm going once they got everything from me they're gonna kick me to the curb now. But no, it's good. You know, I'm one of those guys I describe a situation like, you know, back with Howie Mandel around, like, let's make a deal. Like I'm the guy. As soon as I got, like, six figures on the board, I was running, you know.


And so it's like I put a lot of work in and what the kids kind of growing up and stuff, it's like, man, I would know what the help the media team can give me. And it's still like, you know, whether we want to dove deep into it, like the financial side, like every year, like no matter how successful we were, it's like, man, here we are again, like getting ready for next year.


And like the bank accounts draw, you know, to produce that next year. And it was a little bit of like now we're doing a great job. We have we're turning in big numbers every year. But it's just like the financial stress. It's like talking with, you know, the team getting through there. I'm like, man, I think this is where I want to go. I want to have a little bit more of my life back.


All my kids know is this business is we me, my wife of, you know, with friends and family have built this thing. And it's just basically I want to, you know, enjoy this little bit and still do a lot of the cool stuff. And, you know, I had to diabetic's my wife and my son are both type one juvenile onset. And so, like, I couldn't leave my state job, like there were all these things and and, like, it couldn't have been more perfect.


Like when we started talking to the meter team, like, man, you know, the benefits are good. This is good. This is good. And it's just going to work out, you know, as we've mentioned in some of the other things, like it's the right team, I think, to grow this thing and do some cool stuff.


So when I would tell people about what we were leading up to now talk about how, you know, how you guys are such renowned callers and in some ways kind of revolutionized Elk calling in the way and also grew up hunting like the hard elk, you know, like hunting the shittiest elk in the world.


Yeah. You know, yeah.


And I learned how to do that. And I'm really known to be that. Yeah. It's really, really tough. So and I don't like like the.


Well, go ahead. I mean, I don't want to throw any of the big hunters under the bus, you know. But you see the back when we were growing up, the, you know, the Sportsman Channel, the Outdoor Channel Hunters, the Big O'Connors, we all looked up to, you know, can I mention names now? Like you see like the world Primo's.


Yeah, well, they would go and film it at these famous ranches. Now, there's anything wrong with going to the famous ranches, but yeah. So they you know, they were the elk hunters. Like, I looked up the hill like I watched as soon as the truth came out, like I was driving to my local somebody, I was buying a DVD so I could pop it in and watch it. And then is I grew up like sports where we were successful.


You know, Dirk isn't in the same stuff I'm in, but he probably some of the other hardest OK in the world, the hunt aside from the coastal jungle. But you would watch these, you know, proclaimed O'Conner's come and just get their butts kicked on the coast. Everything there wants to bite you, eat you, it's what it's and, you know, people have just struggled on the coast to kill these, you know, tiniest Roosevelts in the world.


You know, their bodies are huge. But we've got these little you know, I've killed Moldea that are bigger than most my balls. I killed my backyard, but they are hard, hard to hunt.


And so, I mean, the densities are so much like everything about it, you can't see. It's not like, oh, here comes the three hundred of Mount of the alfalfa field, you know, it's just like a different kind of. Yeah, and I grew up in industrial Timberland, so it wasn't any of the, you know, hunting down on the hayfield or down the alfalfa field. It was, you know, beat and brush, you know, down in the bottom of big canyons, you know, Devil's Club, anything that would bite you, poke you, stab you, you know, ferns up to your chin.


It was just that's how we grew up, elk hunting. And, you know, it's like I I loved it, but it was definitely tough, especially, you know, getting that to start hunting, OK, all over the West now, I'm like, man, that was that was tough compared to some of the other stuff. You might as well just leave your binoculars in your truck. It was just that kind of.


Do you still hunt Washington every year? I haven't. I've got a lot of pressure to come back, though. It's. Oh yeah. You get to go to all these other states and draw these tags and do this. And and there's a lot of pressure on me, I think, to eventually come back.


And what was the last time you hunt in Washington?


2013, you'll have to say, oh, you'll have little local Honey Hollow. So I take that back, like for myself the last time 2013, when when some hunting partners or stuff will get like a muzzle to take and I've got time will go out and dog out. So, you know, my wife drew a good tag in 17, so I hung it there. But, you know, it's only had so much time up until now with vacation, you know, and trying to squeeze the hunts in.


So, yeah, I all eventually come back and, you know, home with my dad and my uncles for a long time, you know, aside from like a weekend trip maybe to just to go out with them. So I want to get back and, you know, do that once before they get too old.


When I talk to people about it, too, I would say, like, man, he built the business in his backyard, you know? And I mean by that. I mean he built the business in his backyard.


Yeah. No, it was I shouldn't even tell him myself because a little embarrassing, but it was just that it was the way we had to do it, like we'd go to package calls and, you know, my mom or my wife, they were doing the majority of the packaging and like they would go into my closet like I had I had, you know, like my racks of finished calls were like sitting in my closet, like, here's the here's the clothes that I wear to work.


And then here's like the calls that we need to send out, like as it grew.


And that was just kind of what we had to do. We started on the thirty six by thirty and it was literally my garage. We kicked all the vehicles out, kicked everything out, all the four wheelers, everything like this. And we're going to do this, we're going to do it this way. And we we made it work.


Some have pointed out about any realize this, but some have pointed out to me too that the customer service number was your cell phone is still nine.


We're in the process of getting that transferred over.


But if you call the number on the back of the packaging, and that's why I would always pretend like we were bigger than we were.


Right. Because I want to use an accent when you dance, I well, let me transfer that to Jason. You need to talk to him. You're like people are always surprised that, oh, I didn't expect to get you on the line. I'm like, yeah, customer service must have forwarded, like, have the calls forwarded to me right now or something. I actually didn't want to look that podunk that your cell phone number, but my cell phone number, we're working on getting that change because it lives on all of our packaging.


So it was easier just to get me a new phone number.


That's where is he's not like a buddy of mine. I told him, go get some Thalis game calls he had. I don't know what it was, but he had something. I said he had a problem. I said you should just called the customer service.


I'm sure they'll take care of you. And then he got back to me. He's like, you know, I think I talked to Jason himself.


Yeah, I'm going to I'm going to just auto for everything. The dork. I get quite few of those, too. So, yeah, they're handled. Start to handle most of the email customer service stuff, though.


My number's on there for some of that stuff for like four dealers. But some people, I think they just call numbers till they get somebody up and they're like, who are hey man.


So are you on the Internet? Yeah. Yeah.


But, you know, it was just cool. It's cool to be part of the family. We were able to bring everybody along. And a lot of people, I think and maybe I can clear up from our side, maybe you guys don't care. But like a lot of our followers may be different than the meter followers. And I think the most asked question is, oh, you guys are going to change. We're going to become, you know, meat eater ish.


And I've told everybody, like it's been more important to you guys than it has to me because I want to be able to, like, do some of the cool stuff you do or like why do you guys in this post is cool and like, it's been more important to the people I've dealt with that we stay Phelps game calls. We we use our quick wit. We use our you know, like your guys is marketing. They don't think we have quit wit.


No, no, I think you do.


But like, they want to start, you know, becoming media ish. I mean, I don't know what I don't know what they expect from that. But like, it's been told to us multiple times, like we want you guys to make a post and maybe have a misspelled word or, you know, like we want you to you're like, oh, I do.


All the polished. You guys know how to spell windbreaker from the from the similarities to good.


Yeah. There's probably some software you can do that. Just make sure that all the words get misspelled. No. So you start throwing around salient. I don't. So you guys, in all your big words, like super intimidating for a guy from Pyo, said, no, no. So you always been into. How long have you been in Turkey? Young. I was talking to something this morning. I probably my passion was probably higher for Turkey's early on than it was for.


OK. OK, it was more it was more attainable. You know, I grew up a rifle O'Conor. So as a kid, like calling to turkeys was the thing. And so I remember in junior high, like I was a nerd that would sit in print off like 100 page report on like calling turkeys and like read through it and try to mimic, you know, what was out there. And so, you know, my first passion may have been turkeys before I got crazy and elk calling you my my turkey call collection.


Like, I still have a big ammo case full of just all the turkey calls. I would buy way more than I needed in and around home. It was tough, though, because we have probably the hardest turkey in the world to hunt. And I'm saying that without doing a bunch of research. But in Washington State, they have three species. We have the Easterns, the Rio and the Marium. They've decided to put the easterns on the west side of the state where I live, where it's wet and very, very poor like reproduction rate.


So a lot of what's left there. But I mean, we would spend our entire March, April just trying to find one or two birds to hunt. And so just finding them was the tough part. Calling them in and killing them was actually way easier than finding them because the hen numbers were so low. Oh, my gosh, you just start cranking on a yelp and that bird was at your feet.


And so we kind of, you know, cut our teeth on some of those those birds that were extremely tough to hunt. And then as I got older, got a car, I got to drive over to eastern Washington. The place is pretty darn good. And this is what real Turkey is supposed to be. You know, you could get on a bird switch birds, you know, four or five times in the morning and get a ton of experience real quick.


It's it's interesting how turkeys went for so many people in the country, particularly. In the west and in the far north where you didn't have.


Like, our dads weren't didn't hunt turkeys, you know, so in Michigan, I remember early on, I remember when I still lived there that there'd be drawer tags.


Right now you have the whole you know, pretty much no matter where you live, you get Turkey taking hunt, but being like a big deal, like so-and-so got a turkey tag.


They're driving up north a turkey. And I left around that time, so I never hunted turkeys. As a kid, you know, and then even when I moved to western Montana, I remember when the units out there, I put in one year and drew a tag when it was like they were giving out like 20 tags.


Up in the region, one or two or something, portions of it, right, and no one knew about it and drawn the thing. And. No, like no being raised in the north and living out west, sort of like no institutional knowledge about it, right?


It wasn't raised by Turkey and so many guys in the southeast and areas of the south. It just always been a thing. I didn't ever miss the seasons. But in these places where turkeys had to be reintroduced or flat out introduced, it was as much. So I feel like I've kind of.


Almost discovered it. And study it in a way where even though I've been doing it for a long time now, it like still feels kind of new, there's still an excitement about it. I think I didn't kill my first turkey. I mean, I'm 47 now, so I've been hunting turkeys. Every year, very avidly for 20 years, which sounds like his long career of turkey hunting, but to me it still feels new.


Yeah, because this is like grow up with it, you know.


Yeah. I've been so busy on the big game side, like I haven't Turkey hunted for, like, the last six years, you know? And so I'm excited to get a chance to get back out there and spend a couple of weeks chasing birds again.


But it's the same way, like more even more so than look like nobody in your country knows how to call them. Like, Turkey was completely foreign. We had nobody local that hunted them. Nobody knew how to give us any tips. And so it's like you just went to the Internet like, hey, how do you what do you how do you make sounds once again? Or will Primo's in the truth was like, all right, I can learn something from these guys and and try to employ some of this and came up with our own strategies.


But heck, I don't even know. I mean, we kill a lot of birds and we're really successful. But I don't know if I'm if we're doing it right or whatever. Right. Is you we're just super aggressive. Like all countries. We get close, we scare bird, we get closer, we try it. And who knows if it's right. I'm going to get yelled at for, but I'm going to slap me, but like to me, it's it's like coming in in the spring, like we use the same exact strategies.


We locate them, we go get close. Aside from that happening, you know, fluff the wind checker, it's pretty much the same game for a lot of parts. And so I love that, that being able to talk kind of control the bird and then be able to be aggressive.


Remy Warne's blood pressure is rising. Right? He doesn't like that. But but I get it. Yeah, because it's a it's an audio experience. Yeah.


Not when we first started hunting turkeys in the mid 90s. We did like I guess anybody would, you know, we'd go and get a box call. I remember going out, we were so naive about it back then.


Getting a box call, going out and not having Chalke. And Pauvre, I'm not kidding you, man, sitting there with my brother pulverizing sanshin. With rocks. Into a dust that we could then rub on there to try to get some more notes out of it. I'm not joking, man.


And then typically just losing patience and then doing belly crawls. Oh, yeah. And it was fun over time because at first, like, we would go out, we would glass them up. And just kind of like almost like if you're, you know, again, like to go to the l think it'd be like the strategy of like kind of finding or herd seeing what they're doing and trying to just like make something happen by nudging out in front of them.


We would go out and just try to like, do stuff. Ditch, crawl, ambush, bushwack them and then gradually being like, holy shit, you can call these things in.


And how much and just how much fun it became and to be where now, I just don't I don't bushwhack them.


Yeah, but I don't bushwhack them. Is there any now that I won't.


But it's not maybe I kind of won't see you killed a crippled one there. I jumped up, but I was crippled.


So even as a homemaker, like, as much as I want to show the Coles off, there's something that I absolutely love about being able to sneak in on a on a flock of turkeys, you know, and I'm going to put the disclaimer out there. It's not necessarily the safest way because who knows if somebody's calling them. But if, you know, you're in a patch of timber or a wooded area or an area that there's not a bunch of other turkey hunters, I love to like do that call and, you know, sneak and sneak and call and sneak and then, you know, eventually, you know, kind of fool their eyes and ears as well, aside from calling.


So I still, as much as I do, like you said, love to call them in ice, there's still something about like checking a turkey down and like beating his maybe his best defense, a sneaky, sneaky hunter, if you can sneak up to it in shotgun range of a turkey.


I'm built for being sneaky. I have the right size and stature now.


It's it's fun. I love calling them, but, you know, it's like there's there's part of me. It's still sometimes like especially once they get me a couple of times, I'm frustrated. I'm I'm just going to go track you down and kill you.


What when we were working on so we said to a project a while ago of doing because we're all huge here, folks that spell real good, are slow slow witted, are oh boy.


Very interested in turkey hunting.


And so we hit on an idea to try to start trying to like work up that we would have like a line of Turkey calls that. And I think we talk about would be the.


I like to think about doing it something like gets people up and running for me because earlier I was telling the story of just trying to figure it out, you know, and learn how to be like basically proficient because you could be a phenomenal caller.


I was talking about guys being phenomenal, but I'm always kind of surprised by the fact that every spring. I like dumb ass me, like every spring, I'm able to kill a handful of turkeys by a combination of understanding the birds work in the habitat, right.


Like taking their mood, but also just being able to. Do I at the right time, the right amount of calling, you know, and that's been hard to learn, man.


Yeah, and I think that and learning how to, like, just get like basically proficient at calls can be a challenging process for sure.


I like try to be pretty open about the fact that, like, it's not like I just pick them up and kick ass, but I've got to the point where with the right stuff I can make the right noise and kill turkeys.


Yeah. Yeah. I think that's that's important to know is you everybody picks one up and they need to be the best it is, you know, is the interview earlier. You just need to I think cadence is important. And as you mentioned, you know, being in the right spot at the right time, making the right decisions, being, you know, extremely patient, like I'm not very patient. And so it's ruined a lot of turkey hunt for me or where I would have been successful quicker.


But, yeah, I don't think you need to be able to pick these up and be the best caller out there. You don't need to be, you know, willing or able to go, you know, take first or second on the stage or whatever it may be. You just need to be able to make the sounds and be more confident in making the sounds.


That the point I wanted to make, man, is. Getting to that level of confidence where when you're in a good situation. Having the confidence to then do what you need to do, yep, because I think you just don't want to do it and have like some crazy sound that just so far off it's not going to work.


But getting to where you're comfortable, like at the right moment, I'll be able to. You do it, yeah, there's a lot of people cocky, yeah, I think a lot of guys will get set up and they're so scared to make a sound, they're like, well, we'll just take our chances. Like, if that bird decides to walk by, will kill them. If not, we're just not going to make it sound, you know, and they'll just be silent.


I'm like, well, you at least need to get to the point on whether it's a box, a pot, like, you know, something you need to be able to at least make a sound so that bird knows you're there and draws their attention to that spot. Otherwise you're sitting there. Your chances are really low.


I think, you know, I'm actually wearing my meter t shirt right now that shows the probability of a turkey just walking by you if you do nothing.


What's the what's the percentage? Well, it just depends.


But it winds up being the scenario. I think you have like a nine percent chance that he'll just walk by with a shooting range.


It's like all the computations to figure out its distance from you. You just sit there and its distance from you.


And then if you factor in does all these kind of things, what are the odds it will pass within shotgunned range at various distances as it goes about it's come come as it goes about his roost.


That's from the rest coming from a fixed a fixed point. Call you crawl into 70. This is the quiet you can see that we have a lot of different. That's that that's this amputated.


Yeah, that's Turku out there. That's a computation. The same thing could be that you crawl within 70 yards of a turkey on its roost and do nothing. What are the odds that it'll pass in shotgunned range? So 30 yards on either side of you. Yeah, I think it was like nine or 12 percent. I had a guy I was cleaning fish one day in Michigan and there's a guy looking at this shirt and. He says, you know, that's wrong, and he's the one that said, I can't remember, one of these around here is the one he said, oh, I didn't know that.


Those are from the same person. He's like, I know. He goes, I see what they're doing. But I wouldn't do it that way.


And he sent us a new formula. It's somewhere around here.


Either way, it's better to try to do something, you know, because it's better to try something in order to try something, you got to have the confidence to do it.


Yeah. So when are you going to talk about making calls a little bit like what? Like how you make them, what the hell is a turkey call? So I like specifics because, I mean, I walk through the whole walk through the whole arsenal. So there's there's multiple ways to get to what sounds like a turkey. And I'm not going to you know, I'm not going to say that I developed any of this. It's trying to perfect it and make it sound right.


And most of all, easy to use. But in this lineup, we've got a box call, which is maybe the oldest form of calling turkeys out there, you know, two pieces of wood, the friction between them making a turkey sound, a sound cluck, purr. We've got diaphragms, which I think are probably the most popular out there. So I think well, I think they're the most used maybe they're not the most popular, but they're the most used.


Yeah, I think they were the one that everybody aspires to because it's hands.


Hands. That's where we're going to get. I mean, when we're calling a bird in, like I've only ever called one bird into the gun with a box call, I was scared to death, but it would only answer that one call because there's so much movement, like you can't sit there and not make movement. Same with a pot calling. It works great, but you got to set somebody up on their side of the tree or away from you or some deflection so that they're not looking at where the guns at.


But you got the the the diaphragms and we got the pot call.


So it's when you look at the three, if you just stick, I mean, there's other things too, like wing bone calls, like little spring-loaded boxes. But if you take those the standards. Yeah, these are kind of amazing.


If you look at them, the wildly different. Technological approaches to produce similar sound, those similar sounds like you think that they would all look like a lot like each other.


Yeah, but they're real different, look different.


But I think that the magic help me here, Jason. But like the components are friction.


Yep. And then a chamber. Yep.


A sound chamber. Friction aside from the diaphragm, like there is water, but all the other ones technically can fall into that group of like the floor calls, the pushpins, you know, all of that wing bone.


Back in the day, I tried to make some phone calls. And I mean, that's that's just like air, you know, going through the three different leg sections.


A guy sent me some beautiful wing bone called everything is fundamentally sound good.


I haven't given that the amount of time, but he sent me a video of him doing it. Yeah, he does. Nice little clocks on it.


Gotcha. Yeah. Yeah. I've always wondered, like, if there's a correlation between like how good they look and how good they sound or because they make them beautiful.


But because I think it's like, it's like, it's like an artisan young man. He like makes artisan calls but then he has gone out and killed Turki's with them. But it's very much a.


Yeah, it's like it's more about craft. Yeah, yeah, I think than functionality, but it is interesting. You take a turki's wing bone, chop it all up, reassemble it and suck on it. Make like a turkey. Yeah.


Yeah, it's cool. I mean, you can all do that with a hollow stick probably too. Yeah.


Yeah. They've, they've manufactured wing bone calls to. But what you're doing because you basically like your everything else is, you know, their mouth calls you blowing up on a wing bone cause you're basically puckering and sucking.


Yeah. Yeah. It's like a reverse kiss almost. Yeah. It's like you put your mouth on this little tube go.


Yeah I, I had something on the side one time to do it and then my it was just too, too deep and I like you can only make certain sounds and I was going to stick with these ones so I wouldn't they be interesting if you go back in time to 1750.


Right. And you know, the you know, you know, like the frontiersmen, and they're like they had a lot of turkeys and they did a lot of rough shooting and whatnot, but. Were those guys sitting out there sucking on a wing bone calls? Or they have been shoot them out of the tree in the dark, I think back then wanted it, I think they're shooting out a tree.


They just want to eat them now and mess around on this call. And now it's frowned upon.


Legal in most states, I think it was Abernathy was telling me a story about an area where there was historically like very few turkeys.


And he was saying that someone he knew or some relative of his has a story where they saw a turkey in a tree. And came home all excited. They went back and shot the turkey down the tree and brought it home and it was a bastard. I know because I that's how rare turkeys were, man.


I'm I don't know as much as you guys just laughed.


I don't know if I want to tell this next story. Oh, please. I'm a buzzard shooter.


When I was young, one of the areas we've had lots of turkeys, I was probably high school senior junior in high school. Me and my wife were going on a bike ride or something kind of just to go check on the turkeys. And sure enough, something flushed up into a tree and oh, there's birds here. You back out. I'm a at home. Get the shotgun and I'll come back out. And that bird had dropped back down in the field and they kind of snuck through the field and POW bushwhacked him, it was stinky old man.


But, you know, it was a season. It was everything.


And, you know, and my first buzzard, I don't want to go into detail, but I've had occasion to smell a buzzard.


And it's so otherworldly odor. Oh, they're disgusting. Yeah, that's not good. Any turkeys. So, yeah, back to the call. So yeah, we've got the three different calls. You know, when you go into a box call, you're trying to pair up two words that work well together. You know, you could have put walnut on walnut. You could put, you know, cherry, walnut armor, kind of the standards you can get into the exotics.


But like, man, I think when we sat out, we set out to make this call. We wanted it to be good looking. But then also, more importantly for me and us is for it to sound good.


And so, yeah, there's a there's a nostalgia to box calls where they bring out.


There's the ornate Mtume. Like, oftentimes, people will touch a box calling the person they comment on is it it's beautiful. Yeah, yeah. And I mean, well, the listeners can't see this thing right now. But I mean, this is I keep my ear turned to the turkey world and, like, pay attention to like this thing is is a piece of art, the one that we put together. And more importantly, it just sounds good.


And so, as Stephen mentioned earlier, like one of the things you have to do to get this call to operate is you need to get the lid to grab to the side wall of the box. And so we use chalk to do so. And then as you swipe, I'm looking at Ecoles, the right hand call. I'm going to swipe the powder right to left. It will make contact higher up the box. So you need that to be a little bit thicker because we need to get less vibration out of the sidewall.


And then as it gets down towards the bottom, we will hear that call start to break over. And that's where it gets thinner.


People, people at home. Imagine if somehow you don't know what this is. Imagine you have a rectangular box with a wooden lid. Yep. But then the lid is fixed at one point so the lid can just kind of slide back and forth. Yep. Yep. So we're sliding the lid across the lip of the box.


Oh, and so you just be downright excited. Yes, sir, and then not to pat myself on the back, but these things come out of of some, you know, some routers and 3D routers as close as possible. But there's no when you're building a car would it's not like this latex, which I can take every piece of latex. Check it out. Oh yeah. Its point, three inches exact. It's uniform. Wood is wood.


And so here is the big crux of building a wood call. It sounds good is that this thing might have greens. It goes perfectly straight down the side wall. It might have some sapwood in it, might have some figure in it. And I have a barrel on one side. And so here I am. After they all come off the machine, you have to literally tune one of these hand by hand, you know, one after another, each side by hand to get both sides to run like a turkey.


What does that process look like when you're doing that?


So I it's kind of like, if you can imagine me being very angry at first, because I'm going to run in the box way harder than I should, I'm really just trying to get that chalk to, like, bite into the grain and really just like fill the call up with chalk. And then you're listening, like as you do it over time, you get a pretty good ear for it. Like if it sounds like it's scratchy, like the box call I have is not tuned on the left side.


So if I start to hear like wood versus wood, like a scratchy it's typically in the pedal. So I'll take the paddle off or I'll send the paddle and try to get it to smooth out. Or maybe there's like a little bit of a chunk out of the paddle. If it's not like if the timing's not right, like high, too low and like in cadence, it's typically on the side wall. So I'll go mass at the side wall and thin out a section.


And it's kind of it's really an art to kind of hand tune these things. Now, we could set up the machine to just do all this perfectly, but once again, it's wood. And so for me, rather than throwing half of these boxes in the garbage, because I don't want to put your name, the meter name or the Phelps name on them, I don't want to toss these are what we do is we do kind of a conservative build on a box called give me a lot of meat in that wall and I'll slowly sand my way into a call.


That sounds good. How long does it take you to tune one? It really depends. Some of them will give me like a five to 10 minute fit, like need a lot of work. Sometimes it's just a real quick, you know, 30 swipes, ten swipes to get the angle right and where it will swipe, swipe, check.


And we're out in a minute and you always tune one wall. No. So on my personal call I brought here, I just turn the right side because I'm a right handed caller. That's a side I play most, whether I'm I'm kind of a I don't know what you call this the tomahawk chop, like running it this way or if I'm running it kind of flat style. Yeah. So the right side is what I play typically. But on every call we send out, we try to tune them to two different turkeys left and right and make sure that both sides play and everybody's a little bit different.


I kind of have a group of tuners that get me close. So no kidding. So I'm not. So then I'm not doing the entire legwork myself because five hundred seems like a big number, maybe a small number, but it seems like it's a million when you're when it comes to like five hundred bucks calls kneading tuned, that number becomes exponentially bigger than it really is when you're counting box calls. Yeah.


So if you want to touch something touched by the actual Jason Phelps right now, pull a fingerprint off it.


Oh, no, all the molecules calls have been in his mouth.


Oh yeah. Very pretty. Well, that's that's your call humor there, ladies. So I no, that's an old call joke. The amount of calls have not been in Phelps's mouth.


And then one of the thing why we've got the time is like tuning a box call, like showing up here to Montana and what, ten percent relative humidity going to Washington to ninety percent relative humidity. There's a spring under the screw, which the box called pivots on that can rattle around and rotate even in shipping or from. You may need to adjust that. And so while I don't recommend you take your box call and get your Phillips head screwdriver out before you start to play it, there is always some minor tweaking on that screw.


If the call seems to be too high pitch and it doesn't break over, if you run the screw clockwise and actually tighten it, you will start to get your back end earlier. So you'll get the, you know, the second part of the note before you're all the way parallel. If your call is too tight, then you can loosen it and it'll actually make the call higher pitched. So there's it's kind of as I mentioned earlier. So the tunings mishandling it and then really adjusting the screw for the box, call it we designed a good starting place is the screw the the the the brass screw all the way down and then come out three quarters of a turn is kind of going to get you in that ballpark.


And we started adjusting from there. So like I always cringe. It's people like getting out in tune in their calls. Yeah. Right off the bat.


But that's if things are just out of whack that that's a good place to get back to because just a slight turn, not even a whole quarter turn on a basketball. Huge.


Huge. Yeah. I mean, eighth of a turn would would change a call when I was tuning them from not working the speaking turkey. Really it's crazy. That little bit of just change in the angle that that leads hitting hitting the boxes is what matters. And ideas that I would you know, my tendency is to get in there and, I don't know, quarter half crank.


I mean, like, yeah, I'll get to the bottom of this. Yeah. Know, and that's where it's you know, you can nerd out on these things because that eighth of a turn matters or, you know, the difference in the wood matters. Or, you know, I got to the point where, oh, we got sapwood on one side. We need to come out a little bit more because it's a little bit tighter green or whatever it needs to be like.


You just start to learn. But, yeah, those things were meant to be, you know, tweaked a little bit by the end user based on location humidity. And then we also want to know the box call is tough to run, at least ours being, you know, pirouetted doesn't have the waterproof chalk or anything. They're kind of the first call it gets put away in a in a plastic bag, you know, when the rain hit.


So that call kind of just it's a fair weather call. Yeah, but it does have its got that distance. And I just love the sound of a well box called.


I know a lot of guys like you and just trying to you know, when you can't get nothing going on, just trying to get a gobble to you because you just get a loud piercing. Yeah. You know, high pitched when you're just trying to try something man they'll pull that, they'll pull that one out just to try to make something happen.


You talk about the other night out before we leave the box, call that one thing that we wanted in the design of it was compact.


Yep, yep.


Boxcars can sometimes be unruly how big they are. They don't even make pockets in your vest. That'll fit some of the ones that are out there. But this one's nice where you could just, you know, put in your pocket if you wanted to.


Yep. Yep. Nine inches long and you know about one one point seven inches wide. So it's it's a nice compact side that still gets a good Heino.


You know, like you had mentioned, you got those old fifteen inch like boat paddles that are just, you know, you're out there just big old swipes and and they're just tough to hunt with.


How many how many of those are we going to have? The sky's the limit, like we just we kind of hit with this, I was like, curious how many you want to pick up, too. Oh, we can we'll just we'll have to figure out a better system, but we can't. Or I'm going to have to hire somebody that's a box called Tooner.


But we know the first five hundred have been to base and fell in love.


It, you know. Yeah. And so then we got the pot calls. You know, I think Lovingness was a bigger cheerleader for the smaller parts if it was Steve. But I know we didn't go with a full sized pot.


No, no. I either we're in we're in a line together now. So, you know, most of your party like because my turkey baster has a small little part of the pot pocket.


So there you heard it. Why we have a slightly smaller pot called just so Steve can fit these in his vest. They're a little bit smaller.


The way it feels in your hand, they're easier to hold. There's a lot of good reasons for it. And then we kind of went back and forth that we bring out a slate to bring out a glass of crystal. And we ultimately ended up on a slide over glass and then a crystal overlayed inside of a walnut pot.


Yeah, I mean, that's the thing.


Explain to people how, Scott, how they're not laminated and what do you describe?


Like how there's multiple surfaces that live inside there. So what you need is it's kind of that sound chamber and is is you guys nobody can see this, but these both all have like dimensions that we were as we were prototyping these in the distance. You set that soundboard underneath the playing surface, affects your break over. It affects your notes. It affects everything that this call produces. And so the height you there's a pedestal that's actually like on this call that the sounding board is glued to and we change the height of that pedestal.


The higher it is, the higher pitch, the lower it is that the better the call gets. And so we need to set that up so that we can. I don't know what how you everybody's kind of got to own their own place, they play on these, but I play on the edges. Yeah. So the edge, I would say on most calls, you probably come in like a half inch off the edge, you know, kind of as a.


. And so that's where I played and kind of tuned all these calls to where most people will play on that perimeter. But, you know, a little bit off the edge. And so you just kind of trying to find two surfaces that complement each other. You know, there's aluminum, there's there's you know, people use real wood soundboards. There's all kinds of sound boards and tops that you can play with. But Krystal's really consistent. It gives that sharper Heino and then it kind of comes down and hits that slate, which kind of gives it a more mellow back end versus the slate.


It's got that mellow front end, but then you use the glass to kind of give it a little bit of of a pep. And so it's we tested a bunch of these glass crystal slate. And I think we just wanted to kind of stay with the typical, at least in the start, a good glass, crystal ball and a good sakal.


I always carry two. And that's that same configuration because one, I leave stuff laying out in the woods.


Yep. And I got to go back and try to find that tree. Where else. It keeps me busy while, you know, I still have something in my arsenal when I leave one laying out in the woods and to the rain issue.


Yeah it's different because when you get traditional, like, you know, slate like traditional, it's like slate like out of the earth.


Yeah. Yeah. When it gets wet it's hard to monkey with. Yeah. Glasses or you know, the crystal service. You just like dry that thing off. Yeah.


Or if you have a waterproof Ostreicher or an all other Strecker you can just keep playing that thing right through. Yeah.


So there's a little bit bulletproof but the crystals way as long as you're Stryker's a waterproof shikari you'll still play.


Yes. Crystal with aluminum like with an aluminum striker and it doesn't matter.


But I mean they're so easy to dry not issue. Yeah I missed this too. I've even taken like I even held mine up just taking a lighter and just flick the lighter and add things back to Byanyima.


Yeah. Yeah. So you can, you know, play that and then you know, perhaps a big thing like we're sending these calls out nonpoor. It's like, well that's a huge part of, you know, whatever way you scratch your prep the call, you want to run the striker in the opposite direction, you know, not with the scratches. And so inside these calls, it was very important. I think you called me up to say, hey, we need some sort of instructions in here.


And so now when we ship the calls, like we will give very detailed instructions about the approximate location. You know, if it's a crystal, you should take the, you know, provided conditioning stone. If it's a slight, you know, use the, you know, provided scouring pad. And we give exact locations on on where to scratch the call up to to get that good sound. Yeah.


Like meaning if you open.


Like, if you open up one of these crystal calls and you take your striker and you're like, it doesn't work, like it won't work, you have to create an abraded, like, sanded spot and people will kind of hunt around on there.


And it's it's never gonna be the same for two people. Right. Because just everything about sort of how you hold your hands, your configuration, how you work. The striker is never going to be the same for two people.


So you're going to you might explore around and find a couple little different spots that you like.


To get the sounds you want, and then on top of that, you'll sort of learn what you can get away with in terms of how frequently you need to refresh it. But things you got to figure out, too, is if you're in if you have like if your hands are sweaty.


If you got, you know, just your natural oils, skin, oils on your fingers, you get that stuff on Slate, man, it's like stuff.




And so you kind of learn how to it's good to learn how to do it because it's not like you prep it once and then that's it. You got this call in the open. It's like, oh, it's pre prepped. There's still maintenance. Yeah. Well when I sit down in the woods in the morning man, before I do anything, I'll be sitting in the dark. Before I do anything, I'd go through my little conditioning ritual. Yep.


To make sure that thing's ready to start cranking some noise on. Yeah. And like before you make it sound like, you know, the striker tip, it'll eventually go up just from running through some of that, you know, you try to clean it off, but it's like, you know, you scratch it in your skull scourer pad just to make sure that thing's ready to go so you don't slide a as you mentioned earlier, when the call is not conditioned, if that once that striker doesn't have any bite anymore, either, you'll just kind of slide across the call and it won't produce sound.


So there's we provide all of that with these calls so that they can be conditioned instructions and make sure that, you know, the call will run. Right.


Yeah. You get like salami grease on the end of that Strathgordon. Yeah.


I don't understand where my kids take one to run around the house for an hour. It never works. I think it's just I think this is a greasy little hands. They're done for life. But yeah, you gotta take like a mile off the end of that striker to get it back alive. I think they got it up their nose and stuff.


I don't know what they do it and they make them not work.


So yeah, the conditioning thing and like the crystal call man, it's got like it's beautiful. It's got like the soundboard has a design.


Yeah. It's like it's collateral damage.


I mean you're going to obscure the crystal and obscure the thing when you start monkeying with get your thing, the slate is way different and that the same thing you use to wash your dishes. But you still got what you still got to take care of the surface. Yeah, yeah. But one thing I mean, these specific calls, like we laser etched the slate, like they're going to they're going to get damaged. And the prep of this call, no matter what you do.


So don't, you know, just scratch over top of the meter Phelps name or across the board to get that prepped?


You know, it's not meant to last forever for me personally in my kind of calling, you know, wanting to learn how to, like, kill Turkey's good. I want to have and I think in terms of labor versus output. Practice versus output. I had the greatest advances learning how on pot calls, yep. Where a box called. They're great, there's like very good turkey hunters just use box calls, right, but they're they're loud, which is one of their big selling points, like, you know, they have high volume.


And some people can get a lot of some people can get developed quite a vocabulary with it. But anyone could pick one up and start making like a loud yelp. Not anymore. Most people learning the rest of the vocabulary is a little harder in learning how to do just subtle.


Sounds like, you know, you got a bird hung up at 50 yards and you can't see them good. And you're sort of trying to make something happen before something goes wrong.


It might not be the best bet just to be like we are, you know. Yeah. You just kind of tell him you're here, right. And trying to keep it around. I think that in the time I spent messing with it, I was more quickly, I was more able to learn how to do the basic calls, like, here's a yelp, here's a clock. Right. Here's Appu on that on that medium over other things. And then I in my mind, for me, like the real master, like the thing that's like the most alluring is you learn how to mouth call.


Yep. Yep. That's can you could do the entire vocabulary and never move your hand. Yep.


But that's like the kind that you got to dedicate yourself to. Yeah. You know where the call, as you mentioned, you can pick that up and I think anybody can run it within about five minutes of instructions or at least start to sound like a turkey like the mouth call takes some some dedication.


So you got to be like, you know what, man?


I'm going to spend years like, I don't mind.


I'm gonna drive around in my car, drive around in my truck, and I'm going to learn how to do this. And then when you get there like you're there. Yeah. You know, but it's a journey. Yeah. To learn how I mean.


And, you know, the crazy thing is us being guys and turkey cool guys, like, I don't know what it is and I wish I could figure out what it is, but we get hey, I can run this L'Ecole, but I can't run a tricolor. Hey, I can run the tricky calls, but I can't run your calls. And it's like, you know, but ultimately, as you alluded to a little bit earlier, is, you know, these calls we want to design calls that we're easy to use, but then also calls at the very experienced caller would be happy to use it.


And so it's it's tough to kind of strike that, you know, and we develop it through materials, through the cuts, all of that. And so, you know, ultimately, we brought out four tricky calls. They come in a three pack, which is yours, which is a jailbreak. Steve Steve Rinella, Jake, love that term jailbreak.


Now we've got a lot of them. James, we've got Janis's with the Jags, have saved a lot of Turkey.


Huntsman They eat the same too, don't they? Yeah. And my kid this year, like, he's you know, he had his first turkey season last year and.


I he'll be this will be the second Turkey season, depending on where I go, my daughter will have her first turkey season this year. And, you know, I know the Jake's out there will hopefully help them get over that. Initial home, yeah, no jokes are fun, I haven't introduced them, the idea that it's not the perfect turkey.


No, no, they'll be happy with the joke. And then so Janis's Latvian ego, it's the heaviest call on the group. He's a little thicker latex. Explain that. So well, you give it the heavier latex is a little more volume, a little more long distance calling, a little heavier cutting. And then just by adding heavier latex, you also get a little bit deeper. Turkey, an older Balsan sound, but you need more air, a little more air.


It's not going to light up. You know, as you mentioned earlier, like if you want to do a little soft purr, it might, you know, that purr might be made the loud volume by the time you get it to fire off where, you know, like with your call the meat eaters choice or the easy. Or you could do really subtle like Cluck's, you can still do it. A good color can still do it on Yoni's call.


It's just going to be it's almost that box.


Like if you want to reach the turkey through canyons over like you can yelp on that thing and get that volume out of it, will you find that people can generally learn easier on the lighter latex?


Typically it's just they get sound and so they they're they're maybe not frustrated. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean learning. Like you might have just a heavy mouth guy that just wants to put all the air in his lungs to the call. And so even though he's not an experienced caller, he may prefer Janis's over. And that's where it's like it's all over the board, like trying to find you know, we get through the email. I am a new hunter, what should I use?


And it's like I like to put you in this for eighty, but you might be the complete opposite and want something else. Yeah, that's what I think it's good to have, you know, to get a handful of met once you start messing with.


Yeah, yeah. See I just got a cutters cut on it. Really, really raspy. I like that call a lot.


And then the latex should also withstand that heavier calling. Yeah. A little bit longer.


It kind of plays out, it's a little more durable where you know Steve, Steve's call has a lighter piece of latex on top with what we consider a combo cut with some proff as you're playing it. So it's a little lighter, but achieves that higher pitch easier without putting a bunch of air to it.


And then the meat eaters choice. Once again, we're using profesor backing read the playing read and then we've got it's kind of a modified bat wing is what we're calling it.


Still some so really easy to do and we still get that rasp out of it.


And then the single call by itself is is easy. Clocker where we've put it goes cut in it and really, really easy to use. Easy get your Qiqi runs out of and stuff. You're immature Turki's.


But it's typically the most easy for a new car to run dirt. I don't know, like you don't even strike me as this, but Karen had it down. You were a saxophone player. Not a lot of people know that about me.


It's you're Chevy Chase of Bill Clinton and Bill Clinton and my saxophone. Let me show you something. He had grown up in a little town of Weiping.


I was in the band from junior high school through my sophomore year, and I sold my sax and bought a 338 wind mag.


Does that being a reed instrument and a diaphragm called being like a reed, right? Yeah, like really.


Like, oh, this is easy. I play saxophone.


It's different. Yeah. But it's there's some some weird nuances between diaphragms and saxophone reeds, quality construction. Like if you buy the cheap sax reeds, they don't seem to work as good.


You just can't get the sweet, sweet tones and and melodies and, you know, brand X brand, whatever. A lot of guys will kind of pick up a diaphragm and be like, oh, first time in their mouth. That doesn't sound good. I can't do it.


But experimenting a little bit, you find that not all diaphragms are built the same and same with saxophone reeds. One of my buddies would lend me a reed here. Try one of these. He'd have a really nice Ryko Reed or something and I'd throw that baby in and I was like, wow, all of a sudden just got way better.


Oh, is that right?


Yeah. So I kind of feel the same thing about diaphragms, whether it's Turkey calls, calls like there's a quality issue.


Not all, not all created equal. Yeah. Some of them like those sax reeds, would absorb water really fast and then they just kind of fall apart. So I don't know if they're making them out of cheap bamboo or or what, but there's definitely a difference.


Do you play anymore? I haven't played one since sophomore in high school.


I bet I could probably still play one if I had one in front of me. How long does it take to put when you guys decide to make new calls? How long does it take to get it right before you can start selling it to people?


It just really depends, you know, whether it's a box calls or a little more finicky, you know?


So if we're going to bring a new box, call out and this is where I don't know if we want to talk production versus like if I was to build one is way different, like my whole thought process, the whole machining process, like I used to build box calls and calls out my shop like I would chuck, you know, the back of areso have a hole in the center. I would drill a hole through any piece of walnut, spin it down to a circle, you know, build the shape.


And I sold lots of potholes back in the day. I built a couple of boxes where I would, you know, hand chisel out the sides and hand everything down. But would you really? Yeah. So I had built box calls, but getting your mind right to build five hundred a thousand two thousand is a completely different animal. Like you need to be on the conservative side so that when you do get that weird piece of wood.


So like for instance, the walnut we bought is a lot more of a pain in my ass than the Purple Heart, the Purple Hearts all straight as an arrow.


Everything is perfect where the walnut was kind of all over the place. And so you're like, you know, you had to mess with it or each one had to be tuned. You know, in the future, I think we will buy more select grade of lumber. So we're not dealing with nuts and issues, especially when it comes to calls. You know, some of these calls are beautiful because they do have a swirl here or there. But for for, you know, music instruments, we should probably stick to the.


But I would say now with with everything we know, the designs we've got, you know, if we were to do something new, it probably, you know, a month or two, get the materials, make some changes and get something out there.


I'll tell you, I want to say why I'm asking, but now you're making it seem like it's not a good idea. I want to do a thing where we find a tree.


That we really like. Chop that tree down. Right. And then go take people through the whole process, rymill it, dry it right up. And then out of that will come back calls or we could do that, no problem, and you could get a box call that you've watched it from the tree to the call.


Yup. Like we do a series of calls. It comes from one tree. How maybe we get off one tree, a black walnut. If it's old enough. A lot, huh? A lot of you could do you could do this whole production run out of one big black walnut.


Really? Yeah, I know.


Just the place I think we have that he'd be able to grade it because he was trained up in forestry. You know that, so I want structural selecter, black walnuts, the money tree, usually high value. But yet it's like to tell the guy that we're getting it triple, triple stumpage, that would be Trimbole timber trespass. Seth worked on the thing one time to wear stolen trees. Explain this stuff.


Yeah, when we're when I was in college, we had a we did like this for you what class was in. But we had a lab where we like. There was a timber. It was an actual timber trespass, but we, like mimic that timber trespass where someone like a longer had gone on to the neighboring property and cut a bunch of trees. And then you have to go in and, like, measure indentations in the soil when the tree was dropped and just try to figure out how much volume was take.


Yeah. Yeah, it's like, what's that word I'm looking for? Damn it, it's like a word about crime, forensic. That's the world of forensic forestry. Do you know I read a book about that.


If you're hearing this, you can go to the meat eater. The meat eater dot com slash Phelps. All right. And you'll see all of what we're talking about. And we have videos about them all.


You can show them the materials are made, how they're used.


We have videos of us using them, like the whole thing is explained out. But then. They go on sale, march for. And if you want to find out about Jason and Dirk Durham here, you can go find those guys at, whatever you want. Can I give a shameless plug?


Please don't add the maverick to your car. I'm trying not hey now by Dirk's personal car. Also, add that pink signature called your car. Why are they buying your truck?


There's no mercy purchases for you, Jason.


So, yeah, you guys have a who's actually winning this.


We're not going. The results are still out in the long term. Bad. Yeah. We're not going to talk about the short term battle that we're in.


Well, do you give?


Because I know you guys have like your own allies, like people who follow your own, like, signature calls, but can't you just give better treatment of it on the website because you have control that? Yeah, I'm going to start kicking in a lot of pink sales, cranking the price up on them. We're going to control it in your colors. Pink.


Oh, yeah. Yeah. And you see the new black. If you see a guy open his mouth and it's a what color? Dark red. Red, red. I know he's been in Dirk's mouth, yeah. All right, so again, go to check all this out, because this is this is interesting. It's been a really interesting process.


We're super proud of it. Go to the meat eater dot com slash Phelps. And like I said, there's a smorgasbord, a smorgasbord. Of salient facts. A smorgasbord of videos about the calls. I know it's funny, when we were filming those, I was getting, I had a blue ribbon, literally. Yeah. A place where there are no gobbler's, well, there they're a little bit. That's how good they're trying to point in the right direction.


And then in the north that way, later that evening when you guys wrapped up, I had all that.


They were all there. No, there is yeah, we had to go over it. And those phone bill the damn winner.


All right. Go there and check it out. March four, go buy some.


Has some fun. The spring. Thank you, guys. Welcome aboard. Thanks for having us. Thanks, Jason Phelps there.


Durham famous saxophonist turned turkey card, just like your saxophone is in some pawn shop right now.


It is definitely. All right, guys, thanks a lot.