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An excellent combines, detailed land ownership and GPS functionality that works without cell service and costs less than a tank of gas, use the Onex Hunt app to scout new locations. And sure, you're on the right side of public private land boundaries.


And to save offline maps, go to w w w dot o and X maps dot com slash hunt. Now to get yourself set up for the season and use code meter to receive 20 percent off your first premium or elite membership.


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This is the Meat Eater podcast coming at you, shirtless, severely beaten, in my case, underwear.


Listen to our podcast. You can't predict anything presented by Onex Hunt, creators of the most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download the Hunt app from the iTunes or Google Play store. Know where you stand with Onex. Oh, I got a I got a covered hot tip for you. It's like a hot tip off about covid I had.


You know, when you get a haircut, when you get your haircut and your t shirt gets off all the hair. And it just drives you insane. I feel like you have a bad barber, because when I go man, they keep it nice and tidy and keep it all off me. They have this thing they put around.


You make a little tissue. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, but you know about I'm not saying that it happens every time you've had that experience. My wife cuts my kid's hair and she doesn't put anything on them.


And then they don't even they'll never wear those shirts again.


They complain about him every time. Oh, you get it out and Buzz cuts them at home. Haircut when I do buzzcut. You're exactly right. Well, I wore my mask through my haircut. My mask. Holy shit, is that uncomfortable? Oh, yeah, every time I put it on, I'm spitting out here out. It got stuck in that thing. Joined today by YPF barstool sports, how are you doing? I'm doing good. How are you?


Do you I know your name's Ben.


What's your preferred thing? I don't know. It's I'm sure like I'd like to get your guys take. That's got to be a weird thing to meet a guy named Young Page Views. What the hell's going on? It was an accident. I actually was never meant to be. I don't know. I made a music video, believe it or not, when I was trying to get a job at barstool. And Dave calls himself Davey Page Views because he came up as a blogger.


And that's like the like.


Yeah, they like page views. Yeah. So that's like a cool thing I got to know, get a lot of page views. Yeah. He was like the king of the page views. So when I made I was trying to get his attention and I was like weirdly to like do fishing content.


I was like I made a music video. Don't ask me how or why, but the attention of Dave Portnoy.


Yeah. One of the funniest dudes ever. Yeah. I don't know. I think he does a good rant. Oh my God. He's annoyed about something.


It's crazy as long as it's not like annoying him about something so that I could watch him express annoyance I would love.


I told us when we talked the first time when I was you know, we would have an argument about hunting. Yes. I would love to see you guys to talk about it, because I've never seen him lose an argument. He's like he'd come on this show and argue with me about hunting. Here's the thing.


He's smart enough to know when I think, you know, he's smart enough to know when, like, I think he doesn't want to hunt, but he knows the ethics where he's not going to get into an argument about like it's totally bad because he eats meat and like he's smart enough to know that that's hypocritical to me.


Oh, yeah. So, like, I think he just doesn't want to hunt, you know what I mean?


But I don't think, like, he's the best kind of person on the planet. Yeah, the best. Like I wish the whole planet.


Didn't hunt, but really supported it, so then you should like me. That's about me right now. Oh, I have I'm not a big hunter guy, but I eat a lot of meat. But now, actually, you won't like me, because now I'm coming into the I'm trying to start.


You know what I mean? Yes. I'll stop like in you soon. I know soon. But I'm still bad enough shot that you still like me for a little bit.


You want to hear a crazy story. I would love to tell you one ton about the owl. Spencer.


Yoni, before I tell a story like what is the Latvian mantra when it comes to karma?


Like Karma is a big part of llona downloading Latvian stuff, right?


Little Steve nailed it.


Karma is a big part of Latvian stuff.


I feel like I've heard you talk about Kamelot. Yeah.


You got to keep in mind that our whole lives and the Latvian culture just has attributes that aren't necessarily Latvian that we describe as Latvian. So maybe this isn't a Latvian thing. It's a Yoni's thing.


Yeah, totally. OK, in my. All right. All right. Well, I thought I thought a lot about you. And this was happening. I was in eastern Montana this last weekend. I was on my second day. The there was moving spots for my morning spot, my afternoon spot on my drive.


I came across an owl caught in a barbed wire fence, kind of a great horned owl caught in the fence, caught in a barbed wire fence.


So I pulled over to take pictures and I snap a photo now. Yeah, it was big.


My brother hit on one time, busted out the front grille in the headlight on this car out after being up close.


I can understand why. Pulled over to take some pictures because like, oh, this is like kind of a cool, poetic scene or something, I don't know why.


Like two two foot tall animal is way bigger than that. It's almost half price. Oh, I sorry.


I was dog during this year. He didn't know already.


He'd looked it up on his phone to feed. Not a bad guess. Caught in the fence. So I take a few pictures you saw.


There is poetry in watching this owl suffered at the time I didn't know that it was still alive. Oh the whole scene from my pickup on the side of the road to the barbed wire fence looked like this was death.


Like there's got to be a metaphor in here somewhere. There were feathers in the ditch. It had like evacuated its bowels and the snow. I couldn't see its head. I thought maybe I was decapitated.


Oh, jeez. So I get I get sort of close. I take a few pictures and then it moves like, oh, this thing is still alive.


Is a great twenty five inches. Oh God. Oh my God. Janis Joplin. Thank you. Latvians always know that.


I want to know more details about how I was caught.


Bottom strand between you two it looked like no it was in the top strand. It looked as though it had been crucified like both wings were on the top barbed wire fence.


Oh, that is kind of poetic. Yeah.


And then the rest of his body was just hanging down. I have photos I can show you after this. Are you going to put them on Instagram? I think so. So I can go to Instagram. Do you want me to do it? Are you do it.


We'll figure it out later. I will go tell him your handle on that.


Spencer Neuharth, NICU, a Spencer Neuharth and you will find photos of Spencer's poetry.


All his poetry is written in feathers.


What's your guess? Was it was it swooping down to get something? So I have a pretty good answer on this part. I'll get to in a second. So I find this I'll realize it's still alive. Get to work on getting it out of the fence. The one wing comes out pretty easy. The next wing, though, was like in their in their heads. He does bite now, you know. Nope. It was it was very docile.


And when you're up that close, the talons are like ridiculous on it. But the good news was I had my first light mitts with me, which were like the biggest, heaviest wool winter gloves that they have. And I was able to handle it pretty confidently with those. So I kind of open up its talons, which had a wing in one of its talent. And I pulled that out. It was like, oh, I'm sorry. I understand that it's going yeah, it's challenging.


Just kind of grasping at at whatever it could get it.


It had sort of grasped its own wing so that the next wing, though, would not come out. I tried as hard as I could, could not get it out, but I had a pliers in my pocket wrapped up in the barb, wrapped up in the barb badly. So I went to my pick up, got a pliers and cut the fence on both sides of the wing and then the owls and free. But it had like three inches of fence hanging out of its way.


I also a hole my camping gear in forto to keep it in for TOTE's. I don't know how big, maybe like thirty gallons or something. And I had one of the toilets that were empty. So I put the elemental in the back of my pickup, did not have service where I was that drove out about twenty miles to where I could get service called the gameboard after like calling five of them. One finally answered and he said Well I would just leave it.


Whatever happens, happens, he said.


And that was his advice. Well, no, you know why?


It's not maybe not any disrespect to him because, like, I wouldn't regard offense. Like if you had found it tangled up in a. Oh, God, or something. Yeah, then I could see that you would have that perspective, but here it is, it's in a manmade thing. And so now humanity is involved.


Yes, there was like some responsibility to ensure it wasn't my fence. I could see that the game warden said just whatever happens, happens, let it be. But I wasn't real satisfied. And at this point, I had to live out in the back of my pickup. So it was also like beyond the whatever happens happens.


You probably get attached a little bit, right? Yeah.


What's his name? Well, I already had some names picked out for it, actually. We'll get to that. And I was going to call it I had two names picked out either pick because of where it was that you can figure that part out on your own for PIAC Reservoir. Sneaky.


No, for me either, because I'm sure it eats a lot of meat. You know, I'd like those two.


So I got a phone at Gamoran wasn't real satisfied, I called the billing Tsou, the billing zoo said we do not do any owl rehabilitation, but you should call the Montana Raptor Conservation Society, whatever they're called. Is that down the Bitterroot.


They are in Bozeman. Oh right out of boulders. One down.


So I called them on a Saturday afternoon at like noon. They answered and they they said, well, here are the options. You can drive it to us in Bozeman or we have some contacts spread out throughout the state where we'll do like a little relay race where you will deliver to this person. They will deliver it to us. We could do that.


So the woman on the phone, she also told me this on the front end. She says birds and fences have very low survival rate and an even lower rehabilitation rate that like this thing is going to function well enough to be well, they just get too banged up. Yes, just like a bad situation. Not many of them come out of there and a good deal. They found somebody who was a volunteer 90 miles away that I could then drive the Aletta and that person would deliver the rest of the way to the Raptor Center.


So I agreed to do that and basically took myself out of hunting for the rest of the day because it was just going so far out of the way where it was going the opposite direction of where I wanted to go. And I wouldn't be able to hunt that evening because I was going to be too much time on the road.


Hmm, so I take this out to the woman who's then going to take it to Bozeman and on my way home from there.


Oh, OK. So you say like here is it all in a box? What's her take on it?


Yes. Take a look. I know this this person is just a regular citizen, and my wife handed them a box with an owl and a tote.


A tote that had holes cut in it with my Benchmade EDC so we could breathe. I handed them detailed and then they took the rest of the way and they didn't even take a peek.


So the person on the firewood around your center said that they cannot handle the owl at all. Oh, OK. They're not allowed to go. But that lady told me that this was the third bird in the week that she had taken to them. And she had hit the trifecta now in a week because she had an eagle hawk and then this was her owl. A lot of birds get messed up out there, apparently, I've heard that barbed wire fences are one of the biggest detriments to Sage-Grouse populations.


And in that area, you'll see a lot of fences that have flagging on them just to make it more visible so the sage grouse don't fly into it.


And they put those little metallic reflectors on there to blow in the breeze because it's like certain people when you string, I don't know, whatever height inches I've heard that that that's kind of like a cruising height for them or.


Yeah, exactly. Huh. So no one. So to this point, you haven't gotten any any updates or any reason to think that the owl is going to make it or not make it. You're saying like right now or the day that I was deliberating right now, I'll get to that at the end. I have an update on the. Oh yeah. One really construct a narrative.


Was he able to stand up in the tone? So was he laying in a little coffin?


Yeah, he was. He was mostly laying down when I would mess with him. He was like conscious. He would look at me.


So you said you were, well, harassing in a way of like trimming the barbed wire around so it didn't have 10 inches of barbed wire instead of Kyle Spencer, three inches. You're still getting up to the Latvian karma thing, right?


Yeah. Did you hunt down a mouse or a ball or anything and try to feed it?


No, no, not enough time. Oh, can I tell you something real quick, though? My kid, we're out hunting for the eighth season. He found a baby mouse. And carried around in his bino pouch and it was like. I'm not kidding. We go to dinner later and that mouse was licking his hand and stuff like this mouse is like a full on pet mouse. And he your son told you about this with them?


He's like, look, I look at this vital part of their words, you know, carrying this mouse around in there all day long, then him and his sister, they name it everything, then they have a change of heart and let it go. And then the next day, just we're like catatonic about having let that Moscow and wanted to go find another baby mouse. And I was like, I wouldn't want her around this planet for forty six years.


That's a first baby mouse that anyone finds.


I don't think you're going to go out right now and get one like that. You pointed in the right direction though. You know, our down our chicken coop. I'm sure there's a couple running.


They forgot about it, but I was going to rig them up bucket trap and just put nesting material in there. So instead of them drowning in an antifreeze, they'd have like a little collection of mice. They could.


Come on, come on. Steve's Great Mouse Zoo.


Anyways, this is a great story. I love it. All right. So I've now relayed the owl to the other person. That person is enroute to Bozeman. I'm enroute back to camp, but I'm not going to make it back to camp in time that you need to hunt. Just not not enough daylight left on my way there, though. About thirty miles from where I just dropped off this owl. I see some deer filtering into a field.


A couple hundred yards off the highway is private land, but I had an ex and I had the maps downloaded, despite there not being any service, found out where the landowner lived, because I thought, well, this is my one chance.


Like, this is my only opportunity for this evening when knocked on the rancher's door and they told me that I could go hunt my due to this point, I had decided this summer that was like I'm going to try to find a white male property to hunt this year in eastern Montana. And I went, oh, for 15.


I didn't know shit. Yeah, no kidding.


Oh, for 15 days they have to just not have to bottom up with the owl story. No, I did not come up.


I was prepared, I was trying to rescue an owl and he tried to bring me the Alex. I'm going to strangle it if he's like an old rancher.


Anyways, I was trying to rescue an owl and I couldn't help but notice. I was prepared to explain how I wound up in their driveway to talk to them, but it didn't get to that point. He disagreed on the front is like, oh, that's no problem. Yep. So I go back to where I saw the deer. I walk in to the pasture, and an hour later I had killed a buck, a buck that I was really stoked on like that I would shoot any state, anywhere, private or public, for my four.


So I would have never been in that area had it not been for rescuing the owl, though, because I was 80 miles in the wrong direction from where I wanted to be hunting that evening.


Did you then go sleep in your camp that night? Nope. I went broke down camp and drove home, OK.


But the whole time this happened, I was thinking of Yani and Karma, I was telling that to my wife. Yeah.


Did she tell that story to Johnny's dad? If you really want to get the dope, OK?


Yeah, it would just be like, of course, that's how the universe works.


I don't believe. But I'm closer now. Closer. I got an update on the owl on Monday. It's dead. Oh.


So that was a bummer. They said it could not be rehabilitated. Both wings were in too bad of shape. There'd be too much stitching to be done. They said it wouldn't work.


So do they. They considered that they put it out. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You know, that joke about the guy that goes out of town and his car gets on the roof, that reminds me of that joke.


I wanted a happy ending real bad. I was I was stoked. I was like, I'm going to volunteer for them. I'm going to go feed this thing. I'm going to go and take pictures of this owl named Meat Eater. I'm going to be there when they release it. Yeah, I'd like a little mine.


Oh, I was called a mind movie when that happened.


I was all in on it with three or four, like, real writers in this room. You consider yourself a writer too, then?


I would not say no.


So for one hundred percent is their name for a story that has like simultaneously like that a good and bad ending.


Mm. Well, you could do that. You could do a choose your own and you'd be like, if the owl dies, go get the deer. Well, I got to go to page seven.


It's kind of like the ending of a Tarantino movie, really. I tell my wife I was telling my wife about this like karma that had built up and stuff. Right. Then I killed this deer.


And she's like, well, if karma works like, I don't know that they would reward you.


Yeah, that's killing another animal. Like, that's a great. I read your wife brought that up. That's a really good point. You're saying the like I saved an animal. Yeah.


And so I was rewarded by the universe with being able to kill one. Yeah, but brother, the one I saved died too.


And that's just how the universe function set out to do that. And instead I got a raw deal. Man, you like his story.


You didn't give a giant it didn't die in vain. I guess it helped me get a buck. If that all had lived, he'd sue you for, like stealing his shit. That's right.


And now I know how to handle the situation next time. Come upon some of this. Just call the Montana Raptor Center.


They'll get you hooked up. They are like a very energetic. You have become a donor. No, I'm not going to be a donor.


No, but I looked on their website for volunteer opportunities. The only volunteer opportunity they have right now is if you live in Billings, Montana, you can be part of this relay race. I'm taking ours from there to Bozeman.


That's you know, those places often take like trim meat hunters and stuff. Yep.


We got Yvonne Chenard had that story. He used to bring road kill deer. He's spring roll kildea to a raptor center, but he said they usually show up minus the backstrap. But no one ever brought it up.


Would you volunteer there at the expense of being able to, Rockhound?


Why couldn't I do both? I'm saying like so let's say a Saturday comes up like rock counting and one hand fixing up rafters, not sure I felt like pretty rewarded throughout the situation up until I found out that it died.


So I enjoyed that. I think I would do that again. Yeah.


I got to ask, though, I've eaten some pretty weird shit with you. Did it ever cross your mind once they said it was dead? Did you.


Did you ask them if you could press it out? No, because I imagine they're they're euthanizing situations just like a cocktail.


I think there is some thin ass breast on that bird that I was not going to have. My dad always told story.


My dad was from the era when people just shot things for no reason.


He told a story about sitting in his tree stand one day and seen an owl like an eye level with him way off. And shooting and he said his air goes, he's talked about how like fluffy they are, and he says there he goes right through the owl, but the owl doesn't even flinch.


And you realize that it just passed through the feathers of the owl. Now I would say, like, why the movie shoot it out? But at the time you're just like, oh. Now, the old days, he used to belong to the husband of Chicago, Bowman, and they had a little patch with every. Like everything that was on Noah's Ark, they had a patch for it, all you had to do is going to be like I shot a toad with my bow and you get the toad patch.


I'm not kidding.


And he had like a sash and he had like a sash with dozens of patches of just everything on the planet, because this is back when people are super excited about bows like the Friedberger era.


Who's that dude?


Went to Africa to prove you could kill an elephant with a bow and shot like 90 times Howard or something like that. It was like everybody was kicked up.


Our nose is like people having fun with bows and they were getting back into hunt with bows. And so I was just trying to show, like, how great bows were so you could get both seasons and shit like that. And he, like, worked really hard to get states to get both seasons and then later in his life fought against states having cross both seasons.


OK, one more little report. Hold on, the interaction I was dreading most throughout this whole thing was then talking to the rancher about me cutting his fence, which was not ideal for him, certainly, but I found his phone number, call them, told me the situation, and he was very understanding. It was really pleasant. I offered to go back and fix it for him. He's like, no, just tell me where it's at.


I'll deal with it. Hmm. So very sensitive on that front.


So what was he like? Yeah, I would've done the same thing.


Or was he kind of like you did what it was. It was pretty brief. So that didn't come up when you cut the wire did it.


Got twang and like undoing six poles. No. Okay.


No. It would have been an easy fix for somebody, so you called him up, call him up. Well, I felt bad.


No, I did the right thing. I was actually worried about that the whole time. But I was trying to only interrupt you, like, 30 times.


Did you when you called to tell him about his fans, did he try to sneak in and permission to ask ourselves? Well, I was kind of friends. I couldn't help but notice what a beautiful property.


Yeah. Yeah.


Deer was dead by that point. So I didn't I didn't need any more permissions.


Oh, boy. Well, I got to watch. That's right. I didn't want to push karma too much there.


Oh, OK.


We got a cut in Taylor McCalls intro Yamas book report.


OK, and Sam's going to help Jani Sam Longan. It's going to help Yanyi with his book report. Brawne Henderson's here too, because we said shit. I'm just waiting for my moment, OK?


Good, I'm here today to talk about how. I don't have a proper intro and not a strong ferzat set up there. You did. You were you were probably flying high off the whole story, right? I was. I mean, until it got killed, I don't know.


And then and then, like, when reality kicked in there, did you feel like, oh, just a real like just the energy drained out of the room and the owl just died again when he started that, I remember that it got euthanized.


We're going to go from predatory birds to prey bird. We're talking about Ducks Slick's the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service announced, I think over the summer time that for their contest, that takes in artwork entries that are then used for the federal duck stamp has a new rule book now to tell you all about federal duck stamp and exactly what it is and how that works.


Here's Sam Walton. That's great. And I promise I will pick it up right now because I was like that was very eloquent, just like getting it out of there.


Well, I got the news over to you about. Oh, thanks, Johnny.


Glad to have an opportunity to talk to one of my favorite, the same.


Well, I think many of our listeners are probably abundantly familiar with the federal duck stamp program. Every American who wants to hunt waterfowl has to buy one every year. It's twenty five dollars. The program was established in 1934 and you can read a piece I wrote about Dding Darling J. Norwood Darling, who is a political cartoonist because satire is satire.


How do you say that word? Satirist said satire, etc., etc., etc.. It doesn't sound right. You do it either way.


He said tired things. He did. He did. But yeah, he was. He was a cartoonist for most of his career. But he he he became so prominent that Franklin Delano Roosevelt hired him to start the US Fish and Wildlife Service Service. It was called something different back then, but Congress passed the Federal Duck Stamp Act in 1934 and he was responsible for implementing that. And he drew the first one. It used to be a dollar, but it was it was meant to generate funding for wetlands concerts.


It started out as a dollar.


One dollar. Yeah. Huh. Do you know it was about how much money total now? Yeah, it's over a billion dollars now. A billion dollars.


Yeah. You see different numbers in different places. I've seen eight hundred million in some places, but the US Fish and Wildlife Service says one billion.


And in that they've conserved over six six million acres of wetlands since 1934.


And that's great. Yeah, absolutely. Man, it's so it's it's enormously popular and successful program and it's become really popular for collection. And I actually just spoke to the well via email to the chief of the federal duck stamp office this morning and his dedicated job, Year-Round, or he just kind of kicks in for a week or two every year her dedicated job.


But I believe it's year round and I've worked with her before to get permissions for us to use images of duck stamps because our media.


But she said that they sell one point five million stamps every year.


And what do they get now? There are twenty five dollars now.


There had been like fifteen for an attorney or fifteen until 2014. And everybody had a shit fit. Yeah, because it went up from fifteen to twenty five. But then people had to point out we haven't raised it for a long time. Decades.


Yeah. Decades. But we're also scheduled for another ten dollar increase sometime in the near future I believe.


And anyone that wants to hunt dogs has to buy that. And for a weird reason I guess maybe not. We don't want you trading it between your friends. You got to write your name on it. Yeah. Yeah. Put it on your license and write your name across it.


So it's like not transfer that. I never really put that together. Yeah. So you can't be like, oh I'll just take my dog's name.


Yeah. And she, she said that there's about one one million waterfowl hunters approximately every year who buy a waterfowl, waterfowl licenses and hot water waterfowl. But she also knows that a large proportion of hunters buy two every year, one to put on their license and one for a collectible, which my my dad's done for my entire life. He's always bought a couple because he likes the program. Yeah, he likes the program.


They have a series of like prints from back and I think the eighties with, you know, like the actual print of the painting plus the ducks. Oh yeah.


Yeah. My friend Mark has a lot of those. Yeah. He's got a lot of those. Right. You to be painting. And then in the corner is the actual stamp.


Yeah. Yeah. My father in law has a wall literally of that.


He was like my dad do chapter chairman or president for a lot of years of a new chapter. And yeah, I mean, there's like, I don't know, 10 or 15 in each frame and just the whole wall of them, you know, he's been doing it for 40 years or so.


Have you ever asked did you when you're on the phone with what's the woman's name, who runs that? Suzanne, fellows? Have you ever asked your why they won't do like a cubist duck or an impressionistic.


I've wanted to, but I have like a modern duck, Daffy Duck. This conversation on Yale. I'm going to ask you I would like to know because I just like them because it's a certain style.


It's like very photographic. And who knows, maybe there's never even been a submission.


Well, not well, you know, in the style of the previous of that article I wrote was about our friend Ed Anderson, who's done some paintings and some collaborations with us before. And his his style is very like kind of comic book.


Like we did that shirt with a tarp in there. Will they ever put one of his ducks on a stamp?


So he's considered he's considered trying to submit something under his under his style. And I don't know. But we did talk about that because he was doing it. The reason I did that article as he was doing an artist in residency at the Ding Darling National Wildlife Refuge. So I I'm kind of comparing him to to doing darling because dding was a cartoonist first and kind of a fine artist second. So I think that would be really cool and shake it up a little bit.


But I think it would probably ruffle some feathers, if you will.


What Susan. That's your name was Susan. I would go down and I would have the crazy ass looking.


Abstract. Just see what happens. Some Picasso shit. Yeah, who knows, maybe some not so cool that you sell an extra half a million next year.


So let's get you ready for the end of the year. So throwback to Johnny. Go back to you, Johnny.


Well, yeah. Well, here, let me set him up real quick because because they sell one point five million a year, they think about one million go to the hunters, but they think a lot of hunters buy a lot more or will more more than one.


But, you know, other people by other people do buy duck stamps, but it's certainly a smaller proportion.


And two thirds of the sons of bitches are sold on at least two thirds. But you can get free access to national wildlife refuges if you have a duck stamp.


So there is some incentive for bird watchers to do it.


But that small percentage of people who buy duck stamps who are not hunters are now upset about a change of the rules.


Becky, back to you, Johnny.


Thanks, Sam. That was great. And this is titillating because this is a lot of shit. I didn't know I didn't know about the refugee access. Yeah. And I wouldn't have told you because I don't know what they just told you.


All right. So up until now, I think that they basically back in familiar waters. We want to just, like, submit us pictures of ducks. Right. We're in for the duck stamp. Well, in May this year, the agency announced a new rule.


The artwork submitted to the contest must include hunting imagery.


And so I don't think it's like all the whole 30 percent of those people are non hunters that are now mad, but one, probably 10 of them, and their group is called at least 10 friends of animals, a dairy and based.


I don't even I don't know where this dairy dairy connecticuts. I do if there's a place for a place called Friends of Animals is going to be based in a well funded.


That's the place and place I've never been to. Once they give you 10 people with enough money to get all that going as dairy in Connecticut, there you go.


So, yeah, they're saying that it's it's just it's just going to alienate this third. And so we're going to actually lose a bunch of duck stamp sales. And it's it's going like against, you know, what this whole thing is for. And so basically, we're going to lose money for critical habitat, lose money for the ducks themselves because those people aren't buying one.


Yeah. And the the leader the president great name Priscilla Farrell is her last name.


She says it's almost comical the desperate lengths the dwindling hunting industry is willing to go to make its clients feel relevant.


Huh? I see both sides. Why did they make a rule that it has to look like I'm happy they did. You know, like if I out in the parking lot or whatever and a guy comes up, it goes a thousand bucks, right? I'd be like, I'm happy you gave me the thousand bucks, but I don't get why he gave me the thousand bucks. Yeah, I don't see I don't see any hunter saying we want we want to be featured in this thing.


Like why? Just to stick it to, like y just to be rabble rousers. Well I think they're because they want to say, hey, lest we forget the two thirds of this billion dollars over the last six. Seventy years. No, 90 years. Lest we forget that it's two thirds of it has come from hunters. Let's make sure. And so I believe that this year's winner there is a floating duck call.


Floating in the foreground, looks like drawers to be crossed or something, yeah, I mean, how do you draw a lost call center to keep an eye on a damn window?


I don't think it's the same thing going to protest. And I know he doesn't like it. It's like the guy wanted to have a lanyard.


Well, it's way is a little bit wedged in there. I mean, I'm all about this. I appreciate what they're trying to do, but it's just I feel like artistically it's a little bit forced you to prefer just like flat out dead.


I don't know, maybe a blind in the background or somebody out, somebody on the kayak with a string of duck decoys or something like that.


Up until now, it's always been those beautiful, like wings cupped, soaring, coming in right at sunset, probably after the legal shooting light.


Right. So you can't shoot them anyways.


But you could just change that from that. Just that beautiful wing stretched out.


Look to that one where like it's just when he gets hit and he kind of sometimes is going to fly in his head, falls to the side and he sort of has that like gravity is taking over the moment they considered that one's driving weight.


So a call and it's kind of floating in the water.


There were a lot of details about this. The one that I got a picture here.


Oh, that is the whole. Is that supposed to be a decoy or a real duck, supposed to be a real duck? Well, he did say the landlord got hung up on those cattails. Oh, dang it.


I was like, I didn't mean to cast aspersions or anything. It seems like I do I do like it, I'm just I'm just saying, like I'm a traditionalist, incorporated, hunting into a picture better. That's OK. Well, the big guns blazing.


Yeah, but yeah, it's like his lanyards kind of tangled up in some cattails. Maybe Armistice Day. Hmm. Oh, yeah, could be. It's like the day the owners died. It is, yeah. Spencer just wrote an awesome article about that, huh?


When you think about all that, why is that? That is what they're mad about. They saw that and then got mad at the government.


No, no. They're getting mad about the rule that all submissions now have to include hunting in the imagery.


I will.


I just want to just for that year or every, you know, as far as I understand it, this from the little research that I did, it's going forward.


I've got to imagine that that'll change back, though. Why? Because these folks, Darrion, know because the leadership of the Department of the Interior is about to change. Oh, they're going to get a lot less hunting friendly, potentially, potentially TBD.


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If you watched the meter series or really anything else, we get up to you. I'm sure you've noticed that orange handled field knife our crew is always using to cut gut and get meat out of the woods is the Benchmade steep country for years now. But our go to thing for all things field dressing.


I love it. It's like the perfect size, perfect blade length hand feel light, not too light. It's a phenomenal field knife. And I'm excited to let you all know that Benchmade have now made this knife even better with upgrades from the tip to the lanyard hold. The new version features updated blade thickness, a grippy high viz orange Santa Pren Handal, revised jumping location for better stability and a durable Voltaren sheath. Benchmade has a long standing reputation for quality American made hunting knives.


Family owned and headquartered in Oregon City, Oregon, Benchmade Knife Company has been manufacturing high quality sports cutlery for over thirty years. The steep country is a must have in the field is designed for the sweet spot of Hunter preference for strength, sharpness and edge retention. Benchmade takes pride in the fact that the manufacture of quality American made product that we've passed down from generation to generation each night carries a limited lifetime warranty and free sharpening and maintenance throughout the life of the knife with their life sharp program.


Make sure you ready for the season and get yours there. Benchmade Dotcom. That's BNC H. Madie Dotcom. I was going to talk about the drug ketamine, you ever go into a keyhole, Weiping? No, I've not.


I was talk about the drug cause, you know, but they use it on wildlife and a guy road in a pretty good explanation of, like, how ketamine is used in wildlife research and how ketamine is used recreationally and how ketamine is used as a medical drug. And he sent this chart about the more you take how you move from an analgesia by saying that. Right. Analgesic analgesia like how it goes from being an analgesic. I've never, ever like that word.


No, it's not a good word. I've never liked that word.


It goes from a pain reliever analgesic.


It goes in dosing. Dude, you can't trust those things. Can't trump them. No, it's like an automated robot. It's like asking, oh, I got a great Yaounde story for you. So, you know, everybody thinks Yoda's his name is Janise. This is hilarious. So, yeah, I just got this big shipment of shrimp tales from our buddy Greg.


Oh, I haven't even heard this one. Yeah. Yeah. So but Greg's like. Does it somehow Janis's big shipment of shrimp tails is showing up at the airport freight. And Yanase is supposed to go down and pick up his frozen shrimp tails, but he's out of town, so I'm like, shit, I better get the shrimp tails, but I can't I can't hear why couldn't. I had some reason I couldn't get the shrimp tails. So, Kylie.


I'm like, Kylie, can you go pick up Yianni shirttails, he's out of town, so Kylie goes down there and walks in to get the shirttails, gets first thing out of the woman's mouth. You must be Janice.


She smiled, nodded and took the box.


What about all of it?


Much smaller spot prawns than we're used to catching any darker colored like they weren't cleaned properly. You notice that when you thumb. Have you eaten yet? They have iodine colour to them that I don't see on the big dogs.


You don't think that's because they're very edgy? I feel like that year that we caught all the egg laden ones, they were more like this.


That yellow, that yellow with those tails didn't have any eggs on them. Oh, no. Like more than 50 percent of the ones I had. Really? Yeah, I've only eaten one bag of years. We ate two bags.


They're not mine. They sent it to both of us.


So I handed a couple out to some coworkers, too.


Oh, yeah. As you hope, this ketamine dose, you go into a Dessau dissociated state, but I'm not going to cover that because we're going to get into something else.


OK. This is why I want you to know I just sitting in here so far has been pretty typical. Mm hmm. Covered the kind of stuff we normally cover. Oh, yeah.


Here you can see a wild. Deviation in what way we're going talk about things we wouldn't normally talk about, we've only done this once before.


Now I'm scared. That's not true. We've done a book, dedicated podcast before. Twice. Yeah, because you and I, you have actually maybe done this might be our fourth because I believe we don't need one each for the the guidebooks. And we definitely did one for the cookbook. Guidebook, I don't think we had a I don't think the show existed back, you and I. I think I flew to Seattle and it was in your first house in Seattle, and we were in some crazy little high office like you were in the office on like the third floor of this old house.


And we were tucked in there and had like a slanted ceiling. And we were tucked in there. And, yeah, we probably barely knew each other, but we went through the first guidebook.


No shit. True story. All right.


So it's a little more typical. Nothing but a little more typical.


I thought so about all that. So a very typical episode for us here where we talk about a new book released that we have out.


I want to start with a quick story. The last time we did is we had an episode a couple of years ago. Which was called begging and pleading, this might we might call this episode begging and pleading redox part to. One of the other. Begging and pleading was an episode dedicated to our cookbook that we did. That. Was you guys you let your listeners out there came out in such full fledged support of us after begging and pleading that all the cookbooks that existed.


Sold. Before the book was released, now here's an interesting story.


It has been asked to come out and tell you this You can dislike me or whatever, but I can tell you, like I want to have like like I would like to have a book that was on the New York Times bestseller list, real, real bad, total vanity bullshit. But that's just my dream and hope. You guys bought so many copies of the cookbook after begging and pleading that all the cookbooks that were in existence. Were sold before publication date, you all went and bought them on because Amazon had made a sizeable order.


Now, I know as a point I like The New York Times best seller list looks at how many books are sold in a certain week. However, all of your preorders count during your first week. So you might have a book be for sale for three months before its release date. The release date on our new book, which is called The Meat Eater Guide to Wilderness Skills and Survival, has a December one release date. You could already go order right now on December one, all the preorders hit and then you have the seven days after and that all counts for your New York Times best seller list thing.


What happened with the cookbook is all the copies in existence all sold through Amazon and Amazon is historically been like a pissing match with The New York Times or The New York Times won't accept Amazon's sales figures independently. They need to see it verified because they don't want someone like a single company being able to bullshit them or have their numbers wrong and report a number.


And then that goes down the list and they can't independently verify it through some formula where you look at how it's sold in other markets because all of our books sold and they had to wait for a reprint. No books sold in other markets. I know as a point of fact, because my publisher had the number six book on The New York Times in our category, our same publisher had the number six book that week, and they told us that we sold thousands more copies than the number six book on the New York Times bestseller list.


But they didn't count us because it all sold to Amazon. That's bullshit. It's just how it is. I have been mad about it 10 times already. So have they resolved it, though? Is Amazon like counted now or. No, they won't count it. They can't. What they're trying to prevent to is someone buying their own book onto the bestseller list, which people have actually successfully done like certain categories, how to not spend too much time on the ship.


There are certain categories of books where like a surprisingly low number will land you on the list.


There have been people that are just, you know, well funded individuals who could go on and do these big bulk orders or have like a bunch of their friends do a maximum. You can game the system. So they have this way to try to build in or that kind of thing isn't happening.


And so they want to see they want to see that the book is doing well in a variety of marketplaces to the point where this is that kind of some weird dirtiness about the list to the point where there are certain independent bookstores, say, where on The New York Times list will value their sales to X.


It's some weird ass, it is not like what book sold the most, right? It doesn't account for the way book buying has changed either. That's what I'm saying. But you imagine you got a place like that, you know, like there's like a hostility toward the big man, the big man being Amazon.


Yep. So all that is meant to say as we sell you on this book over the next little bit here, we're going to spend 30 minutes selling you on this book as we sell you on this book. I don't really I don't care where you buy the damn thing. I want you to have the most frictionless interaction possible.


But if a little part of you a little teensy part of you says, you know what, I'm going to call up Billy's books down on Main Street and order my copy through Billy, I won't be upset. Neither will Billy.


Oh, always good to support small businesses. Yeah, you need to call that old bill.


If you're on a first name basis, like I said, I want I think people should have a frictionless buying experience. There is indisputably a lack of friction, and that's in an Amazon sale. And by God.


If that's that's how you want to buy the book, buy the book that way. The main thing is you buy the damn book just as a favor to me, secondarily, if you can make some purchases through, you know, buy that one, then go buy some more through other places just in order to it's just simply this.


It's simply just to make me have the happiest day of my damn life.


Outside of my kids being born. By having one of our books go on that damn list. They buy a nice hunting friendly company represented on that list, what does a category do we fall under? Remember the name?


No, I said no, that you mean the book category. I don't know which nonfiction category. I don't know if we'd be on on Amazon. How to. Yeah, it falls under a couple different. Well, yeah, we made every other like our cookbook made every other bestseller list on the frickin planet.


But not the one that anyone pays attention. I don't want to decide their best. This one is sort of like a certain cachet, undeniable cachet. That's the one that everybody cares about.


Oh, my God, I could just taste it. Well, we might make a T-shirt as a big red stamp on it, says New York Times best seller. That's a great idea. Just one right now. I'm wearing our newer our newest T-shirt with the big. Old fashioned, double long spring on. Trap and shoot, were you inspired to make that shirt after our visit down to Jean the man? Mm hmm.


Kind of Jim. Jim. Thing was, Jim Phillips. Oh, sorry. Go ahead.


I don't know. I'm just trying to help Johnny with the name. No, thank you. OK, a little bit about the book.


We're going to try it. We're going to do is try to do this in a painless fashion for you all.


But it would be after working on the book for years and a lot of people in the room, what kind of a lot of the pride that the primary folks are in the room excluding why you didn't he didn't do shit for the book.


I didn't do anything. No. Sadly, like nothing didn't even contribute like a nothing.


But maybe he will with a blurb here later. Too late.


I was too late for the book. And so. Oh, you'll notice in the dedication. I don't want to point out the type on the dedication, someone changed Dartmouth's name to Dirty Bit, which you can't change. It has got to stay that way forever. No, that's what it is. No, that's just that's just what is so dirty and dirty mouth.


It's the only mistake I've found. So the book is called Again, the book is called The Meat Eater Guide to Wilderness Skills and Survival.


It is how many pages long for counting. The index is four hundred thirty five pages long. Let me tell you about why this book exists. I feel as though. The you'll notice it like in the name wilderness skills precedes survival, right? So like the Meat Eater Guide to Wilderness Skills and Survival.


I feel as though. The survival. The survival genre has been kind of tainted.


In recent decades, maybe by sort of like fantastical television portrayals of survival situations that create this idea that nature, that wilderness, are these like horribly dangerous places, you best get out of there in a hurry before something bad happens to you.


And, you know, just always remember to drink your pee. And everything is going to kill you.


I view this book as being a, you know, an antidote to that and resetting wilderness skills and survival to a position where it is.


Very well thought. Moderate, highly skilled information sets that are passed along to you in order that you will feel more functional, capable, comfortable in the outdoors, whether you're a professional who works in the outdoors, whether you're someone who's taken their kids out camping, whether you're just getting into hiking and you're going to go visit a string of national parks, whatever, that you will go into the woods with competency and you will understand the equipment and skill sets and mindsets involved in all forms of wilderness travel from basic recreational to advanced stuff.


It is not a book that's like meant to be full of. A crazy cockamamie bullshit, in fact, the original title working title, yeah, was the no bullshit Guide to Wilderness Skills and Survival. Yeah. That's the book, and we worked on it. The folks in this room, Browdy, Sam Spencer, to work on it, you need to work on a bunch of other people that work on it. We collaborated with emergency room doctors, river guides, all kinds of, you know, mountaineers consulted with and put together a collection of information that I am very proud of.


The sea bound together in a book and we're going to do here is kind of walk through what you'll find in here in order to give people a better sense of what's going on.


So. I'll start off by talking about the introduction. Real quick, which is called the surprising dangers of Seymours, and one of the things we get in this book and try to like a theme throughout is that. A big part of wilderness travel and wilderness skill and even even like a survival mentality, is being realistic about risk and threats. I think that it's easy to have it's easy to get preoccupied with the idea that you're going to get mauled up by a mountain lion and you lose sight of what actually happens to people.


And one of the things we found in our research that was really surprising. Is that depending on who you go to, select groups that keep track, like wilderness groups, that that field people out in the wilderness and they keep track of what things like over the course of decades, what things are leading causes of wilderness evacuations? Simple strains and sprains and cooking accidents. Like when you go out in the woods. You have a far greater chance of just burning the shit out of your hand on a camp stove.


Did you hear Garrett Smith's story? Not one report Zayat with the pine needle, not that one. Yeah, that one required some skills that could be found in this book, but not exactly that. Like a five, six day trip. I can't remember what river in Montana, Garretts, a big kayaker, and he's got a full pot full. What's that new, though, that we like so much now? The MSR reactor. Yeah, boiling hot water.


And he goes to grab it and it kind of slips and half that water goes onto the top of his hand. And he just said for two months it was just the blistered and puffy. And they were only like it was like their first or second night in. So, yeah, they had like three days ahead of him out in the sun, gripping a kayak paddle and having to paddle with that wound.


I saw a bad one of the yeah. One of the worst backcountry injuries I saw was. Someone, we had an alcohol stove. And it's super bright out until the day, and it's hard to see that flame, the flames blue at night in the daytime is very hard to see the flame. They thought the snow had run out.


Because he couldn't see the flame and went to free poor. Alcohol into the stove and that huge, nasty, blistery hand burn also on a river trip, and there's just no getting I mean, you're just there. I mean, you could have, like, really, really pulled the. Caught on the whole thing, so no, because that back then we didn't have, like smartphones and entreats devices. Which we cover heavily in this book. Surprise, dangerous s'mores, then we get into the next thing we get into and is going to do a second book report on your book reporting on this one.


Yeah, Johnny's book report is a breakdown what to pack and wear, like how this chapter works.


And the introduction, Steve, that you just mentioned doesn't count towards the page count. So you actually like those six pages for free by four hundred thirty five, is that right?


Savings. Wow, I do. They do that. I don't know. Can I tell you one quick why. But you tell me why an introduction isn't counted. Doesn't start on page one. I don't really know that's odd, and if all books are like, I'll tell you a little book thing, I do know there's a title page, like a lot of books have a title page. Like if you go to this book, you had a page where says The Meat Eater guy, the wilderness skills and survival.


But it's just that and you go to the next page and it has the author and publisher. They call this page the bastard page. And if you have like an antique book that's been signed by the author, it's preferable that it's been signed by the author, not on the bastard page, but on the page that shows its lineage, meaning the publisher does say, I want to mention about the introduction, the introduction. I tell I kind of kick off the book by talking about I think Johnny was here.


We were up in the Yukon Charlie's Rivers Preserve one time. And we flew over the wreckage of a plane that went down during World War Two. And it was one of the guys on the plane was this dude, Leon Crane, everybody died and it was an experimental flight in the 40s. Everybody died in the plane except Leon Crane. And it talks about what Leon Crane did. He was it took them months. Ninety some days he was stranded in the middle of the winter.


East of Fairbanks, negative 20.


And what he did for those 90 days in the kind of things that he tried in the calculations that he made and I get into like, why did that dude like what was it about that guy that knew like he just didn't make any mistakes and remember flying over that wreckage?


Yeah, yeah. So I talk about I kick off, I talk about my brother Danny, who lives in Alaska and works at a single engine aircraft. He he's he believes in like getting up and getting down, like you don't fly around extra shit. But what's kind of ironic is I remember we kind of flew out of our way a little bit to go look at that wreckage, which violates the get up, get down principle. But start by talking about that guy and then some other shit.


But then Johnny lay out what people will find and what to pack and where I will.


First of all, I did point out that I had before this book, I think was even really had its inception. There's like a time when we had maybe three or four, maybe even half a dozen ideas of like, what's the next book project going to be that we're going to work on?


I remember sitting on a plane and chat with a lady and she's asked me about what I did. I was telling her about whatever adventure we were going to be on and we had just finished. And she said, you know, that's really nice way of like not even kind of something I would do. She's like, I need, like, help, just kind of just like going to like the nearest lake where there might be like a half a mile or a mile hike to it, maybe a little hike around the lake and then getting back to my car in a matter of like a couple hours.


She's like that intimidates me, you know? And I think we had a conversation soon after about like, you know, it's important we make projects like this that we really because the vast majority of people out there don't have our skill set, maybe not even half of it, maybe more like a small percentage of our skill set. And they are looking for just the basics to know that, yes, I'm comfortable and confident to go to that lake that's a mile way so big, Celle going to it.


And you like you. And I just don't think that that would be intimidating, scary to just, like, be that far away from your car for a matter of hours and then come back.


Yeah, we're used to weeks at a time, but I think that this book speaks to that person. So you don't have to be Joe Hunter.


Joe Mountaineer. I'm looking into getting into backcountry skiing to get valuable information here. It can you can totally be a city dweller or the person you're buying it for. It can be a city door that's looking to get out for the weekend for like a day hike and be like, yeah, I read this is a lot of stuff. It's like beyond me. But there's like I know exactly what's in my pack. And if I happen to have some stupid accident out there at the lake, I'm covered.


Right. That's great.


I feel like Johnny's is trying to get a job at the QVC Channel. Man was phenomenal salesmanship.


I had to make up after my poor book of poor showing or just started rolling.


It started out. I caught you by surprise. You saved it. Yeah. Oh yeah. He really saved it.


And now he's back at the top of chapter one is what to pack and wear and.


You start off with the story of you and your brothers going sheep hunting and sort of trying to say, you know, what's too much and what's too little and trying to find that compromise where when you're in the middle, you're like you're getting the experience of being out in the wild, but you're also safe.


You don't want to go out there and just have so much stuff and be burdened by everything that you're carrying around that you really have. Your experience isn't that much different than if you were to have lunch at home in your backyard, right?


Yeah, but having enough that, again, rain shower comes along, you don't get soaked and get cold and have a miserable time. Yeah.


Versus being like so minimalist that you're vulnerable, like you're so minimalist that you're great as long as things go real well and the weather stays a certain way and one thing to the next.




So and what's cool is that you have a just like we did in the guidebooks, we had a lot of outside experts weigh in. And I believe that in this chapter I saw that Randy Warren, Wayson and Bradbrook, somebody else, Browdy and that chapter, I think that's about it.


Yeah. But they kind of they kind of talk about both ends of the spectrum.


They're like this ultralight guy and the guy that doesn't mind carrying a little bit more gear to have it.


I want to point out something real quick about kind of how it flows. So a part of it flows like this survival kits overview of basic survival kit, which gets into your basic like how to build a basic med's survival kit, then a big list of shit that's called extra shit for your basic kit, and then you get it into the official OSHA jury rig kit, which is like more advanced. And I want to point out that the book kind of flows like that in general, where things start out in every chapter starts out like everything's great, like, for instance, water starts out like if your car came in, how much water do you bring per person per day and what does that get you ends with?


How to source water when in the absence of surface water, so every chapter flows like everything's perfect to. Oh, and that's the general path through.


There's a lot of stuff, I think, that in here that you'll find in probably a lot of other like minded books, like there's just stuff that you can't not talk about, like how to was the system called we use the TARP in the hole in the ground to get water.


Solar still. Still, still. We're still like, that's a legit thing to do. Right? That's an upcoming chapter.


But well, like here, like in this one instance is like the extra stuff that you guys want to think about to add, like we're into Watpac and we're a chapter. But you guys did an extra part for, like, specifically kids, right?


Like, it's it's different.


You got to think about it. It's get wet somehow when it's like nine degrees outside, you're in the desert and somehow sons of bitches are soaked to the bone.


You know, we one time like our kids, we were up in Alaska and I was advocating not bringing a lot of clothes for the kids because I was like, they'll just wear them dry, like, you know.


Yeah. Just like you and our kid right away wades out into the water. These two ways wades out into the water. So now he's soaked up to his waist. And I'm like, well, yeah, but he'll just have to wear them dry. And my wife's like, well, he also shit his pants.


I can't wear that dress, wear anything dry. Southeast Alaska is hard, but when you get a dump in your pants.


Oh yeah.


I don't I don't have too much else to say about the chapter. I think that you should buy the book and read and see what all is in there.


Yes. There even includes and we had we made sure to go in and have a female contributor tackle this one, but we got one called mountaineering tricks for soggy underthings. And it's a it's information on sports bra. There you go, Steve lays out a nice detailed packing and unpacking system in there, which I think is pretty valuable because. A lot of people just kind of throw their shit and in a backpack and go, there's a condemnation of metal wedding rings.


We cover Pax. Knives, tools, shovels, all that kind of stuff.


Oh, and we also have in every chapter like tip section and that's when you write in the book, a lot of times you wind up with a lot of extra stuff you want to talk about, but you can't make it fit nice and in narrative.


And narrative nonfiction or in novels and stuff, you just want to you can't do it like there's no way to do it, but in a book like this, you just have a thing called, like extra stuff, and then you just pile in all the stuff that you couldn't make fit normally.


Yeah, and we do that every time. It's a way to do it real efficiently to like, just lay it out there quick and. Really, why the first chapter covid pretty well, I think it's good and it from somebody who didn't write this book so I can be an outsider perspective. I think it's important, too, that, like a lot of people could be disassociated when they think the only time you need this is like, oh, you're in a plane crash or something.


But what John is saying to words like, it could be as simple as going the wrong way on a trail. And then you need some of these skills where it's like very accessible.


You know what I mean?


For me, that's like huge because it's like I could I could gain abilities that I might not have had just from reading. And it doesn't have to be some crazy scenario. It could be like everyday stuff, you know, the WePay or anything to be here.


No, but I'm I'm serious because that's true. A lot of times you're like only true. If I tried to tell my fiancee, like, hey, this guy was in, you know, the Sahara and his plane crash, she's already tune me out if it's like, hey, we're hiking. She threw me out when I started talking.


But it's like if you're just hiking, that happened to me like a couple months ago. We're on Mt. Neots. I start I'm like, yeah, this is the way we ran into these birdwatching guys that we're like up on the survey who were like, what the hell are you guys doing out here? I was taking us across this ridge that was headed into, like, nowhere.


These are skills I could have used if I hadn't run into those guys or else I would have been screwed you for saying that we didn't pay you, but it would be awkward if you said, like, this is stupid. Yeah.


You know, guys, this is chapter six out of ten. I don't know. But maybe that would be weird.


No man day hikers get lost and injured all the time. My niece lives in the Pacific Northwest and she was out on a hike and busted her leg and spent the night overnight until someone came by, you know, just just this past year about that elk in Colorado just got super lost.


They only found because they decided on a whim to go to an area where he wasn't supposed to even have gone into.


Oh, no, I didn't hear this story.


All right, Sam. Sam's going to cover a couple for us that he worked very hard on. Yeah, well, I did water and food, which sound very simple on the outset and got real complicated on me real quick. But, you know, we felt like water was first and foremost after, you know what you bring what you wear because, you know, it's the the elixir of life. And so, first of all, we talk about how much water you need.


I mean, that's that's one of the biggest problems that people run into, is not bringing enough water, not knowing how to obtain water or how to how to know what water you can trust. So we start off with with how much how much water you need basically for a day to to to live and sit in an office or your your couch downstairs. But, you know, getting into how that ramps up exponentially once you're outside doing stuff. And we go we go into the math of how you know, how much you need because, you know, there's a lot of there's a lot of days in this time of year where it's cold and you're doing a lot of sitting and, you know, bring analogy with you for is is probably going to suffice for a day.


But then earlier in the season when it's 75 degrees, you know, so you can you can you can bring four liters sometimes and be down to the bottom by the end of the day when we have information on how to trick yourself into drinking, which is my problem.


Yeah. Yeah, it's called. Absolutely. It's nice to have some tricks to just get more liquids in and spice it up a little bit because it can be a little boring to drink nothing but water for if it's like below freezing.


I'll go a day and look at my water bottle and no interest, man.


I do that, too. But then, like, the next day, I'm all sore and cramping up and stuff. And it's because you don't think about it. Yeah, absolutely. One of one of my favorite pieces we wrote about this is the highly divisive subject of water bladders. I'm a I'm a CamelBak. I always have been, but I know I am among a minority here with my colleagues as a as a CamelBak dude. And I don't do it all year because you run into problems once it starts getting cold.


But I love having it so available. I drink so much more water when it's just like right there and you don't have to dig it. Dig that water bottle out of your pack when you're stopped and you can you can eat drink it on the on the run.


But yeah, we we discuss all the different ways to carry your water, but then we get into the fun stuff that Steve has a lot more experience with than I do.


But neat, neat little words like Jared. Yes. Jared Yosses Jihadists. Jared Diocese. I butchered that. Cryptosporidium nailed it. Isha, Isha E.. Equal to most people.


But you know the shit you can get from drinking unfiltered water. And, you know, many of us have have just shipped out of a creek before. I mean, I remember going on a three day hiking trip and that's all I did because I forgot my water filter, didn't die, didn't feel great afterwards. But we go in, go real deep into water filters.


There's a lot of different ones on the market, a lot of different pros and cons of weapons or stereo pens, pros and cons on ceramic filters, pros and cons on gravity fed filters. Absolutely. Sunlight boiling. Yeah. We go we go all into where where you find water, because that can be a really tricky thing, too, especially if you don't have a filter where where you can find water you might be able to trust. And I think that's where we differentiate a little bit here from some other similar books is that, you know, this is this is like you can you can drink unfiltered water if you have to.


You're not necessarily going to die. It's maybe not a good idea. But, you know, these things are available to you and there are ways there are other ways to to get clean water or make clean water. If you don't have a filter, including, like we said, solar still transpiration bag, you can you can even use UV. I didn't know this, but in Africa, they use UV to filter their water all the time. They use plastic water bottles and leave it out in the sun for a few days.


It's clean. It's going to be hot.


But, you know, it's it's going to be clean. So, yeah, I mean, water as important as anything when you're doing this kind of stuff. As homeowners damn near every day of hunting season can feel like Christmas, but don't forget the actual real life holiday season is coming up quick and Benchmade knives make great gifts. And I'll tell you, man, there's a lot it's nice to get a knife for Christmas, especially like a good one.


I mean, someone can give you, you know, got like kind of handmade decorative knives, which are cool.


But like, you can't walk like a knife.


That's like a good usable knife. That's Benchmade, bring Benchmade home this holiday with a gift from Benchmade Knife Company, Benchmade has been handcrafting knives in Oregon City, Oregon, since 1987. They make knives for outdoor hunting, survival and professional use, and all their knives are backed by a limited warranty and life sharp program. They'll sharpen your knife for free for life. I'm serious. If you have a Benchmade night and you mail that knife into Benchmade, they re sharpened at the factory specs and send the thing back to you.


As you know, I carry the bug out every day and use their hotline regularly. The bugout is great because it's lightweight, fit easily in my pocket and can handle a variety of tasks from opening boxes, the forward and mushroom's process and small cuts of meat. I have you can go on Benchmade in like design and make your own bugout, which is a pretty sweet system. Benchmade also makes the best knives when it comes to skinning and breaking down game.


They use high quality steels like Snively that offer premium edge retention. So your blade stays sharp all season long. So whatever you're looking for, check out Benchmade dot com. They got you covered. That's BNC h m a dot com head there now to upgrade your kit, pick up holiday gifts or check out what's new. One of the things we get into, too, is like the science of how to ration water. So like what? When you have limited water, how do you pass it out?


Spencer, we've covered this for on the podcast with Spencer covers in the book.


Why not to drink your pee? Oh, and real quick, tell some other like we like, we try not to give a bunch of bullshit, but some things there's some bullshit and things are so pervasive that we actually had to touch on them. So, Spencer, do you mind hitting on a couple of things we had to touch on?


Yes, we we had, like, I don't know, five or six sidebars in the book, maybe one for each chapter on sort of things that are really prevalent, thinking that we basically said bullshit on, you know, like moss only grows on the north side of a tree or you should be drinking your urine or that menstruating women are more likely to be attacked by bears, all that kind of stuff.


My favorite sidebar that we covered was in the last chapter, I think on the the medical part, basically looking at some really popular movie tropes like Cowboy Cauterization, which I don't know if that's like the universal term, but that's what we'd been referring to it as like in Rambo three, Rambo finds himself in a very familiar situation. He is injured, he's alone and he's shirtless.


And yeah, he's got a wicked wound in his abdomen.


He pulls out a piece of shrapnel still on a stick, didn't he? I don't know. Oh, I don't know. It sounds lame for Rambo. Yeah. Yeah. Cannava He pulls out a piece of shrapnel the size of his pinky from his abdomen. He then fills it with gunpowder and lights it on fire. And there's this rash like he's in a cave, of course. And it's painful to him. Yeah. And it lights up the whole cave and not that painful.


Yeah. Yeah. And he staves off infection and he goes on in the movie. I put this in our original draft. He didn't make it in the book about how he finishes the movie because it's just so bad ass how many people he killed. Well and no like the series of events afterwards he goes on to steal a helicopter, crashes that helicopter. He then steals a tank, crashes the tank into a helicopter and then saves a day. All because he was able to do this cowboy cauterization now we talked to Dr.


Alan Lazaro's, said you absolutely should not do that in an emergency room physician who we consulted with heavily in the book.


Yeah, he did not cauterise with gun powder that they said those are very, very fine instruments that are like going on exact spots on your skin. If you do this cowboy cauterization where you're lighting your stomach on fire, doing some cell fires and you're like taking one step forward by stopping the bleeding, but five steps back, you know, a third degree burns, you're going to get infected. Even worse, you have dead tissue. It's just a really bad idea.


And even aside from from adding gunpowder, I mean, I feel like there's John Wayne or, you know, old Westerns where they would, like, get a knife hot and in a fire and then. Sure. Then press it to the to the wound to cauterize it, seal up, stop the bleeding. And also very, very bad idea. Just as bad as it could be.


Just censor's pieces don't do shit you see in movies. Yeah, exactly. The other one is sucking snake venom. Right. This is very common Western trope. I think the first example I found was from 1947 in a novel called The Pearl, A Mother Suk's Scorpion Venom from Baby. That was just that all the way up till twenty eighteen Red Dead Redemption to a video game. The main character sucks Cottonmouth venom from a stranger. This is very common.


This has been told of all Pearl by John Steinbeck.


Yes, that's a good one.


Happens there. That was like the first example I could find of this. So what was what's the story there? Tell people the story. Typically the heroine stumbles upon somebody who's been bitten by a snake. They then get out their oversized knife, cut X in it, wrap tourniquet and above the snake wound to I don't know why, prevent it from spreading further in the body. Maybe that's the idea. And then they suck the venom out of the wound, get a bit real for really seriously spit them out, right.




The reality is you absolutely should not do that. The venom spreads so fast that there's no like getting the horse back in the barn. You're also like, say this is a second party assisting you in this. You're just risking them then getting the venom in themselves as well. You shouldn't do it.


And I've seen this sort of thing like these sort of this stuff is so prevalent, like I said before, that it's just like accepted. That's what you do. When I was in high school, I was working for a number of different farmers in the area. One guy did exclusively pigs and we before shipping the pigs out, I think to prevent shipping fever, which is just pneumonia, we would vaccinate the pigs with penicillin. And it's really, really chaotic scene when this is happening.


It's two man job. One guy is in the stall. That's the size of this room with dozens of pigs. The other guy's running a gate letting the pigs in and out. And if you imagine getting vaccinated like a toddler, it's a very delicate process, right, where they stick the needle in and whatever, it's a very delicate thing. That's not the case with giving pigs penicillin. There's a lot of stabbing going on, and once you vaccinate one of the pigs in the hip, you spray paint them.


So you mark that, you know, this one's been done right. It's just a lot of chaos. Pigs, the pigs squeal, et cetera.


We're the one guy I was with and we are doing this is surreal, something like that. But times in times, a thousand times a thousand, the pigs are running.


They're in between your legs to the one guy who is with swung down.


He missed a pig and he stabbed himself in the thigh and inject it all in one motion, stuck himself, inject himself with the penicillin, whatever. We go out and the farmhand calls the farmer and he explains to him what happened on one hand, right. He stuck himself with penicillin. Which is like an antibiotic antibiotic. So you stick yourself with penicillin, on the other hand, this needle had been in all hundreds of pigs and this was peak swine flu time.


I was a junior in high school in 2009. So that was like top of mind as well. He calls the farmer and he tells them what happens. Philip was the farmhand. Fred was a farmer. Philip tells Fred what happened. And there's a long pause. And Fred thinks about and he says, well, Philip, did you try to suck it out as if that was the solution?


So it's just prevalent stuff like that that makes it into, you know, the psyche of everybody. And it's just like a solution to a problem. But it's not.


And we don't just curse the darkness. We light a candle by telling me what you do or do when you get stung by a snake, zapped, whatever you call it, by a snake, and what you do do when you have a chunk of shrapnel or bullet in you.


So it's not all just negative, Nancy.


That's right. When Rambo had that wound, he should have been lighting himself on fire. He should have taken his headband out of his luscious locks. And he says it would have been much more simple, much more effective.


You're just saying something, maybe you want to say something. I don't know. Talk about food, Sam. I'll talk about food, Steve. Well, you know, the way I've been pitching this to all my all my friends and just everybody out there is like this is this is a book that's not it's not as much a survival guide. It's just like how to be a how to be an outdoorsman outdoors person. So, you know, in this food section, we start with what do you bring?


Because typically when you're going outside, you just bring down food with you and it's a lot more a lot more simple that way. I mean, obviously, we're often going outside looking for food, but we still bring a lot of Freeze-Dried shit with us as we go. So we really break down just like how to be comfortable, how to enjoy it, including a section called Ten Ways to Master the Freeze-Dried Experience.


Absolutely. And I think that tips on Freeze-Dried, one of the most important. That's one of the most important tips out there, because if you can't enjoy freeze dried meals, you can't spend a heck of a long time out outdoors. Yeah, followed by the coffee conundrum.


What do you carry with you in your backpack for freeze dry? Stick of butter. Oh, sometimes, yeah, it's a hot tip. I like my butter.


I bring it bring a little little bit of hot sauce with me, salt and pepper. All these hot tips are in here.


All these ought to be including a section.


Should you be buying all those supplements, which we felt like we needed to address. And the answer's no.


And and, you know, some of our more kind of cozy, homey stuff like bringing jerky in Smokies and pepperoni sticks and, you know, just how to have fun out there and not get not get so sick of the same old bars that you that you don't want to eat them and you're not putting enough calories. And, you know, we also get into, like, how many calories you do need because, you know, everybody everybody knows from the nutritional labels on the back of a, you know, can of beans or, you know, bag of chips that everybody has a 2000 needs a 2000 calorie diet.


But that's just really not true.


That's just that's just an average of American adults.


But, you know, when you're when you're sitting around at home, you may need way less than that. But if you're climbing 4000 feet up a mountain, you're going to need twice that much more than that even.


And sometimes, like, you can't cannot physically put enough calories in your body to replace what you've what you burn through. And so we do some simple, simple math there about how to how to consider what you bring with you based on based on weight and caloric value. And, you know, I talked to Yoni's about about some of this stuff, you know, sample overnight packing, packing list, sample, five day packing list for, you know, a day hike, packing list.


Just kind of some ideas to get you started based on what we do and what we've had success with and what we enjoy eating when we we we get into the different types of stoves. Worked a lot with Ryan Callahan on that one. You know, there's a lot of different options out there. And, you know, from your Potbelly Walton stove to the little bitty alchol stoves you can make out of a beer can chopped in half and kind of some of the advantages and disadvantages.


And then after that, we start we kind of take a hard turn into food you can find.


And so this is more in the survival section, like when shit hits the fan, what do you do?


I mean, what what can you eat out there? That's always really the captivating part of any survival story is like, what did they eat?


And you find out that people live on, you know, have lived on lizards and eels and even certain types of berries for for long periods of time.


And this is where this chapter got away from me a little bit. I remember you asking me for about 8000 words, and I think I turned in like 30000 because basically we basically went through everything you can eat in the wild areas of North America.


We had to condense that a little bit on the food, fruits and berries part. I worked with a friend of yours, Samuel Thayer, who was just the man. When it comes to wild plants, he's a he's a foraging author and instructor and Wild Foods expert based in Wisconsin. And he was telling me we were talking on the phone. He goes, survival camping.


It's just like for for fun, he'll go out with nothing and just fine should eat for a week. And I was like, that's pretty bad.


You know, he knows his shit. He knows it real well.


So he helped me narrow it down to about about two dozen different plants like Common, widely available, easily identified wild plants without dead ringer killers.


Absolutely. So it's like, well, it's got six lobes on the leaf that'll kill you, but it's got five lobes.


It's pretty tasty. We help you steer clear of the things that you're going to screw up.


Yeah. And I mean, this even helped me this this spring, a buddy and I were out looking for Morrell's and he's like, oh, this is this is wild onion.


We popped out the bulbs and I was like, man, it doesn't really look right. And and I just written this section in and he ate and he's like, oh, that's a little sour, little little tart.


And I was like thinking I was like, man, isn't it?


There's something about flat like, no, the wild wild onions are supposed to be around stem and this is flat. This is wild iris. And what we'd both eaten one at this point and I'm like, oh, we shouldn't have done that.


Should we maybe make ourselves throw up, should read the book, should have read the book or hear section in here.


Like what's up with eating a. All the common questions, yeah, what's up and what's up with the possible what's up with what's already in Lizard? What's up with the alligator? Like all the like where's the meat? What's up with it? What to expect? What's going to kill you?


And also a little bit about like how to how to find it. How to get it. Yeah. Yeah. It's how to pack for it.


Primitive methods, even a gripping section on how to free your dog from traps because a lot of dog owners. Our tripped out, often rightfully so, about traps, what to do in those situations, what the timelines look like, how to get your dog out of a trap, should you be out hiking and something bad happens? Absolutely. Yeah. And I mean, when we go, you know, when we're talking about when we get past the plants and talking about animals, we started in with shellfish, you know, crayfish, mollusks, crabs, bivalves, stuff I grew up doing, you know, pop and tide pools and stuff.


But, you know, if you're in a you're in a coastal area, that's probably the best way to feed yourself. Then we get into fish. Obviously, I didn't. Didn't leave any stone unturned there, but, you know, there's a lot of cool, cool ways to catch fish. I just filmed a little video a couple of weeks ago with some of these tips that we have in here. I went Brooky with a a piece of line in a stick.


I chopped up candy wrapper for a candy wrapper for a lure. And then I made a little fire and spit it up and eat it and stuff. The whole thing took about a half an hour. So it's, you know, obviously we drove there for that specific thing in mind. But, you know, it's some of these things are really doable. Fish traps, trot lines, set lines, fish spears got we've got the, you know, little emergency survival kit.


I love this. We had Joe Somali. We had just really write this one about, you know, about what World War Two pilots, how they had a they had a little survival kit in their survival fishing kit, in their survival kit. And the stuff they would bring, you know, the not bring a Paulas, they're not bring anything fancy, but, you know, a silver or gold spoon. It's pretty much all you need. But as I as I showed the other day, a bear hook with a little chunk of candy wrapper works just just fine on brook trout.


And, you know, we kind of work our way through from the.


From the easier stuff to catch, kind of the less advanced animals into trickier and bigger things, we've got amphibians, we've got reptiles, lizards, turtles, crocodilians, birds, we spend a lot of ink on on the fool hen, you know, concept in the bird section, which, you know, anywhere you go in the country, they've got something they call Phoolan.


It's not the same species everywhere. But, you know, different types of grouse can be can be very easy. Well, relatively easy to to capture compared to to other birds, the food chapter ends with my favorite section, which is called and lastly, a few thoughts on cannibalism.


And we lay that whole situation out. If you make it that far. Will you do it?


What part you might want to start eating on?


And a little bit of the psychology of cannibalism that came around to we kept it around for a while and then were like, we have to talk about. Most people are going to have to have a cocktail before they get into that little junk.


Well, it just gets into like it gets into like so it sort of poses the question, you know, like like what happens there, Jetter, for things that bite molesting or make you sick, it just covers the whole gamut, starts out with all, you know, everything about plants, OK, thorny plants, cactuses, gets into insects and arachnids, goes through biting flies. So it's everything like treating it, avoiding it. Worst case scenarios, insect borne pathogens gets into bees, wifes hornets, chiggers, fire ants on and on a big should.


A big bunch of stuff about Lyme disease. Lonestar ticks, which take away your tolerance for meat, spiders, tarantulas, scorpions, all kinds of stuff on identifying and avoiding gets into fish and reptiles like like jellyfish, stingrays, lionfish, how to deal with them. We had a big section from spear fishermen like what's up with great with sharks? A little bit of a breakdown on the four big offenders when it comes to sharks, what the behaviors are like, what to do, how to tell when you might be in trouble with the shark shark attack prevention, all kinds of stuff on snakes, gators, a lot of stuff on mammals of particular focus on rodents and different kinds of pathogens that are passed there.


How to avoid them, how to deal with porcupine quills, skunk bombs, rabbit fever gets into mammals and then it gets into all the stuff we love to think about grizzlies and mountain lions and all that stuff and wolves. And I'll tell you, there's a little load of a buzz kill in there when you start looking at the numbers. And is it really something you ought to be spending a bunch of time on? If you do feel compelled to spend some time on thinking about it and preparing for it, what you should do.


And we get real heavily into the old debate.


Bear spray your pistols. Stay tuned for that. Who wants to kill shelter and warmth real quick? I can joke about it. Yeah, sure.


Exactly what it sounds like. You know how you're going to stay, basically how you're going to stay dry and how you're going to stay warm because that, you know, if you screw those two up, that's what's going to kill you probably.


So first of all, it's understanding weather and using every resource you can to get a good as good a handle on what the weather is going to be when you're out there as you can with with the the understanding that if you're going on an extended trip a week or two weeks and you're going to be, you know, away from civilization for for a while, a ten day forecast is only so useful because there is there's like inaccuracies built into a ten day forecast to begin with.


And in a lot of places like the weather can be one way in one valley and the next valley over, it's doing something completely different. So you just got to prepare for, you know, everything like out here in early September, elk hunting in Montana, it might be seventy five degrees, but the next day it could be, you know, twenty five and there's a foot of snow on the ground. So getting a handle on the weather is the big thing.


Then you move in to shelter and basically we go over different types of shelters. Focusing on tents and all the different. Kinds of tents and sizes of tents and how to pick the right tent for what you're doing, you know, with the knowledge in mind that a three season tent is probably the most versatile.


And then just getting into to different types of.


Tens within that, like backpacking tents, family tents, you know how to use a tarp to create a shelter, we you know, oftentimes when we're out in the field, we're setting up a little sun or rain or wind shelter with just just using a tarp. It's a soup. You can pack one of those things that's basically the size of your fist inside your backpack and always have some kind of shelter with you. Then we get into sleeping bags and choosing a sleeping bag, synthetic versus down versus this new treated down, that they have an understanding temperature ratings and sleeping bags and and giving yourself a buffer.


It's a good idea to always give yourself a buffer, going a little sleep with a sleeping bag that's rated a little colder than what you expect to run into. We got some more lists of tips and tricks like Steve was talking about for staying warm and dry and comfy in there, and then we get into like campsites and picking and choosing a campsite, preparing it. And after that, we kind of get into the the old school survival book idea of of building emergency shelters, starting out with stuff you can carry around, like contractors, bags and tarps and things like that, and moving on to like just finding natural shelters like tree wells or digging a snow cave or building a lean to or like all that kind of stuff.


And then we get into building fires, and that's a big section because a lot of times staying warm is going to mean you have the ability to light and maintain a fire. So we have a long section in there on finding fire or building materials and what you should be carrying to build a fire like, you know, BIC lighters, like we all carry probably multiple BIC lighters in our packs, but we also have backup systems like a fire stick, a magnesium fire sticks, all kinds of info on fires.


And they're great, good stuff in there. It's a good section.


More skills to have a question. Do you in there recommend that people practice? Yeah, yeah.


Definitely fire yet different ways, especially under shitty conditions, you know. Yeah. Like we've all been in Southeast Alaska at Steve's cabin. We're getting a fire started in his stove is hard, you know.




How many of us have been on that trip where you're like, you know what, you do the fire. I'm going to go do X, Y and Z, whatever it might be. The other chores you need to get done. I'll go get wet 30 minutes later. You come back. OK, where's the fire, bro?


So, yeah, definitely practiced that shit. Like Remy Warren says when he's late season Alkon and he makes a little fire every time he sits down to glass. Yeah, yeah. That's just good.


Just keep the keep the tools sharp. So that's pretty much that that chapter, how to stay dry and warm in navigation, wilderness travel. What do you like what do we do in this book that no other book like this has, as we have a lot of very up to date technical information about. Devices, so how to use mapping apps, mapping software, how to use in reach devices, so instead of getting here, we do coverall some of the old basic tricks about, you know, celestial navigation and kind of a lot of that stuff is interesting and good to know.


But we also covered, like just how to avoid trouble by using technology. You can avoid a lot of trouble. I brought this up recently on a when I was talking to us on Tim Ferriss a show talk about the book, and I said that McFeast trilogy on geology, annals of the Former World. In it, he says, If I could sum up this book in one sentence, it would be that the top of Mount Everest is made from marine limestone.


If I was going to sum up this book in one sentence, I'd probably say like Onex and Reach.


Or get Onex and reach is like there's a lot of things you can do today for very small amounts of money that, if done properly, can eliminate the chance of risk and say that damn near, damn near eliminate chance.


And even if something bad happens, those two things are going to make getting out of it alive. Yeah, way easier.


They don't they don't solve all your problems. But holy smokes, man. A lot of times you read about people in trouble. You like that dude. Should have heard of this. We talk about spatial awareness in the navigation mindset, which one of the best things you can give a talk about wilderness travel is just trying to develop spatial awareness strategies so you understand what's going on around you. Navigation tools, modern technology, old school woodsmen, ship getting all that stuff, locator beacons that are used by mountaineers, two way radios, the capabilities of your own phone use as a GPS unit.


Then we have a big thing navigating without electronics. So all that's not forgotten.


Then we wound up going into different environments. OK, so navigation, wilderness, travel, mountain section, swamp section, desert section, all kinds of stuff about moving on snow and ice, including how to tell frozen rivers and lakes how to assess ice conditions, what you're going to expect when you're out on the ice. So this is one of those areas where it's just a lot of personal experience from people that worked on the book talking about like, hey, man, if you're in the mountains, traveling in the mountains, here's 10 things to keep in mind.


Like some things not to do, some things to do. And we lay all that out, including a lot of old school tricks. We get into whitewater safety, boating safety, ocean safety, and again, get into some, like old school strategies around how to build flotation devices, how to survive in the water, how to survive in cold water, how long you have water rescues, all that stuff. And in a lot of packing lists, a lot of packing lists about wilderness travel.


Who's going to medical and safety, the last one I can do it. One thing I'd also add before I start that is all these chapters like contrary to a lot of of traditional survival books that kind of go with the primitive skill route, like building, like making a fire with a bow drill or like like knitting some buckskin pants or what like do we embrace like good gear, like in every part of this, this book, because good gear makes your life easier.


And so you're going to find throughout the book that we're going to like, call out shit that we use and stuff that we really like. So I just wanted to throw that in there, too. So moving on to medical and safety. This is a big one. It's I think people tend to and this is goes back to Steve's kind of reality TV survival stuff that where things are tend to be overblown. The shit that's going to get you is not it's probably not going to be the big shit.


It's going to be the little shit. It's going to be a sprained ankle. It's going to be vomiting because you've got some kind of gut problem, things like that, like that's what's really going to screw you up in the outdoors. And if you're in a situation where you can't get out quickly, a sprained ankle can be really bad news and the flu can be really bad news. So that that's how we kind of built this chapter is going off that kind of baseline.


But this this chapter starts out with hygiene like poor hygiene.


Just talk to honest man. He's the hygiene, the hygiene sheriff and camp usually.


What do you mean? I asked everybody if they're brushing their teeth and washing their hands at all. Like because like that's how you can get sick. It's called basic hygiene for dirt bag. Yeah, exactly. Like No one, you're going to be dirty, but trying to maintain a level of cleanliness that isn't going to make you or other people that you're with sick or you know, you know, your kids are watch Bob the builder.


Yep. The his theme song is Boots Belt Hard Work.


Like I hear that song getting sung in my house.


Well, think our ten year old. I made him a song about how to shower. The gold pits bought not Sam Walsh like Bob the builder, yes, but not Sam Walsh, like Bob the Builder.


Because I love how I get to be 10 years old. It's like you really go into the shower and he steps immediately out. What happened?


Where did you even use. So it goes just to confirm. Yeah. It's like, well, how else would I be aware? Yeah, we just walked in here like three seconds ago, dude.


But there's ways to stay clean even if you don't have. Access to a shower and we go through all that, we go through pooping in the woods and how disgusting surface critters are. A big section on that have a little hygiene essentials kit and then we move into the big one first. I got to ask you, how many different positions did you cover for pooping in the woods?


Well, I when we talk about this at some point.


Well, stick the stick. Grab the. Yeah.


And just, you know, freestyle showing. Yeah. Yeah. We cover a little of that stuff. Yeah. So that was probably the best material ever written I would say. Probably the best thing I've ever read in the improvement in the world. Yeah.


Granted there's a whole book on it, but we pare that down to just the info you need.


Medical partner and has been so valuable first aid kits and or medical kits.


But probably the biggest thing we learned before. Well, during the process of writing this book, the thing that we all weren't carrying that we should have been carrying is a tourniquet. And that that goes back to our buddy, Dr. Alan Lazaar. We had a whole podcast on that that you can listen to if you haven't.


Did you hear about the life we saved? Yes. I don't mean to brag. Yes, dude, listen to the podcast. And then was in a hunting accident shortly after, saved his dad's life. His dad got shot and he had just listen to the podcast and did all the technical shit and saved the guy's life. Yeah. You said you would have never like that, would not have been on his radar. But we go through saving lives, we go through everything you should have in your first aid kit with with the knowledge that.


Like, these things aren't like static, like we're constantly adjusting what we're carrying in our survival kit and what we're carrying in our first aid kits, but we go through that stuff that should always be in there, the stuff that you probably want to have in there and stuff that you can move in and out of there according to your needs. And you just have that like you've got to make it a habit of carrying a first aid kit. I was just with some buddies in Colorado like a month ago, and I was making fun of one of my buddies because he didn't carry a first aid kit.


And sure. Shit the next day when he was and his Bucky stabbed himself in the leg and was like, man, I should have been carrying a first aid kit. If you don't have it, you're asking for trouble. Then we go into kind of. Just educating yourself on how to administer first aid. We go through all kinds of diagnosis, information on the things that you're going to run into out there from sprained ankles and gut problems to bruises and strains, to broken legs, to illnesses, to heart attacks, to strokes, like basically everything that could could get you out there.


We go through on everything on how to diagnose and potentially treat it if you're able to. It's pretty extensive, all that stuff. So. There's some real cool information on like assessing abdominal pain by quadrant and arterial pressure guides, like really good just first aid info throughout this thing.


I think that's life saving. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.


If you're going to pay attention to one chapter in here, this is probably the one to pay attention to.


How much is that? They're. So I think it's twenty five retail. Right. Usually.


Yeah. That's you get twenty five on their morning. I go look I want to go find out, let me find out what it says right here. Twenty five. I think all I want to do is actually for sale. Nineteen ninety five on Amazon or something like that.


We see 1979 steel, dude, I was five years old not. Also, he listed as a best seller here at Amazon best. I know what the hell that means. That can be best. By the damn book, I don't even care if you want it by and give it to someone. I'm just begging you, I don't like the begging and pleading.


It's got to kick ass cover on it. Durable, terrible, flexible and cover so you can take it outside if you need to do me a favor and just buy the book, please.


That's all I'm asking. Please, I'm begging and pleading part to. Thank you, everybody. Oh, no, I have a closing statement oh, I know, I know we're long over time I'll hit you, but I'm a little surprised none of you picked up on all this and going to add this, because what what really to me sets this book apart. And I'll admit, I have not read the whole thing, but I've heard this from people that have read the whole thing, is that it doesn't read like just a bunch of dry information.


Everybody here that contributed, like has very good creative flow. We buy great stories in there that kind of back up all this information and personal anecdotes of, you know, how they learn this stuff and how they could have known, you know, how they could have used the more information that's in this book now at that moment. And yeah. So it's like it's a good read. You're not going to be it's not going to put you to bed at night.


You're going to stay up wanting to read more.


You'll lay there making this noise.


You'd be like you're reading, you'd be like to your husband to be like, oh my God, you're like husband and you're like, holy cow. Did you mean to be like, oh, man, I had no like you do all night long.


You we have a lot on the floor and you're like, oh my God, I got to get a copy of that book we hit.


We have a lot of fun with the survival guides of the past, how they would have a diagram of a deer with like a bull's eye on its head and like this is where you stab a deer and that's how you survive. And so we're kind of like, yeah, forget all that, you know, squirrel might be a little bit better move for you right now. So everybody join in the fun.


Oh, Leon Krein, the guy that got the I'll bring this full circle, Leon Crane, the guy that got in that plane that wrecked spent days trying to kill a pine squirrel, couldn't do it, tried everything, started walking and found a trapper shack.


That's what saved him, and he knew he did some very good decision making about what direction he ought to walk based on topography, but yeah, he's like all the skills in schools, said you about, went mad, started pine needles.


That's got to make your great stuff, Joy, the fun. The Meat Eater Guide to Wilderness Skills and Survival by a shitload now.


Why, he says it's the best wilderness skills and survival book he's ever seen, ever, by far. And he said, I bought 10 already. Bought 11 already. Oh, he just bought another one. All right. Thanks, everybody.