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This is the Meat Eater podcast coming at you, shirtless, severely beaten, in my case, underwear, less than half a Meat Eater podcast.

You can't predict anything presented by Onex Hunt. Creators of the most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download the Hunt app from the iTunes or Google Play store. Know where you stand with Onex. OK, among others, we're joined by Cody Cannon, Whiskey Myers, what's going on, man?

Is that a stage name? What was that your name? You were born with Cody Cannon? Yes, dude, it's a great, great name for a musician.

You're bound to be a rock star with a name like that. Yeah. If you were a rock star named Steve Renel, that's a word. I think a word. I think Cody can and make kind of a rock star.

Well, I'm switching to Steve Fevre. There you go. And I'm going into the music business hard. I have a little Kopenhagen.

Oh, yeah. I always it's my vice that the only vices I have left and I don't think I can give it up. That's your flavor. Yeah.

Spenser's you you look like a guy that, you know, really couple of times while out fishing in like 100 degree heat when I was in high school.

That makes you want to have a dip. Maybe not want to have one ever again. I was wondering how long you would get without addressing his dip in his mouth. The only thing that's the primary thing I'm interested in life. And I didn't think I'd be the first minute.

That was quick. Oh, first thing out of my mouth. I saw that coat come out. Yeah, I got a little dip.

Now, this is like church size dip so I can show me your pinche size there, if you don't mind. Well, like I'm saying, not at church, I'm saying like Saturday night, half drunk, I'll have that much all in the upper end of lower.

Did you ever fill in upper and lower lip? No, no.

I think that Ignát. That's.

Yeah, that's just that's just silly Christianity itself.

I'm curious, Alexander. I'm the tour manager for Whiskey Myers. YouTu. I do not. I used to quit. Yeah. Was it difficult to quit?

No, I did it when I played baseball when I was in school.

And that was when I got done and stopped some of the cells the other day that they used to. Actually mix. Gum and chew when they played baseball, the Terry Francona also was called what it's called, who was telling me this too, he said would make such a mess.

Oh, Kurt Roscoe. What is that like? You have great bubble gum on one side and you have. I don't know if big league, you know, many kids we like big league to a lot where your kids may she had like a power to shredded gum. He was saying that when he played baseball, they would mix their chew in their gum.

And he said when you were out standing there for a game doing that, it would generate so much spit that you would actually have a Staind circle around you, but you'd build up a big Tuesday in area because it would just generate an enormous amount of saliva.

I don't know if that's a universal name, but we refer to that as a Terry Francona. It was that a famous athlete. He's a famous baseball manager.

Gotcha. So that's a real thing, that's crazy. Yeah, yeah, I don't think I can do that.

We had a musician in here one time. He was chewing while we talked to him, just like yourself. And we were talking about a full stadium, which it was explained to us is when you have the upper and lower deck.

And he said that's not what that's called.

It's called a hard nut, which I have no idea what the hell. Yeah, I don't know about that.

I've never I've never tried it.

I guess I'll have to try it out. We'll watch.

Last night, Callahan was over and we were. Making some Marga's, which is you probably crania, you're international enough, though, I'm Tommo, it's delicious. Did you have you had Simac right? Not poison sumac. We didn't put that in there. No, you didn't. Harissa sauce.

Yeah. Roasted red peppers. OK.

Oh, you can put it in lamb casings, which is the worst thing on the planet to work with. Why? And just just try to know. They're just it's just they're thin, OK, but they used to make they used to make not even you.

So they can still get them. Like if you got a latex allergy they make condoms out of lab casing. Huh, I wonder how this is like a such thing as a natural condom. Ever wonder how effective or not that is? I don't know.

It's bad for the lamb. So if different uses of the animal.

Oh, speaking of which, man I haven't talked about, I have a picture this I can't tell if I want to put it on Instagram because it won't it won't perform well and it'll blow my metrics, but.

We just found when I was with my kids on Aniello. We found a coyote dropping. And in the dropping was lamb, it was a castration band, huh? Yeah, you know that for you listeners at home, one of the ways they castrate you can castrate stuff is you just take a I remember this kid I grew up by Paul Anderson was his name. They did it to their dog.

Oh. With rubber bands. Oh. I have talked to that dude in a while, he'd be hard to look up on the Internet to because I got a feeling there's a thousand Paul Anderson's, but. He put rubber bands around his dog, Skaro. Because they knew that they do it in the livestock business. This castration ban looks like the size of a wedding ring, it's green rubber, and they'll just snake it around a lamb's little snake it around his little Scarrow and it strangles it.

And somehow he got tangled up with a coyote in the coyote, ate the castration band or whatever, or he does aid a castration brand, which is hard to picture.

I think you're wrong. I think your audience would like that. A man or blade man. Oh, are you? I guess so. My father in law is.

Yeah, we do both. We cut him and band. Oh please tell me more. I mean can you walk us through it or do you guys work with cattle or sheep. Cattle. OK, walk us through the process.

I mean we just we process them. And when when when he buys them, we, you know, either ban them or cut them. I really don't know why we do one or the other. Tell you the truth, I just kind of do what what he tells me to do.

So, but I'm in great detail, Cotton. I really can make an incision and snake them out. You still banned him. You you. There's a tool and you reach down and you put it around the testicles and then you take a sharp knife or, you know, a scalpel is what we use. And you just cut you make two incisions and they just fall off, you know, within.

Also, the band works in conjunction with an incision. Right. Over what period of time?

I don't know how long it takes and probably, you know, days, maybe a week. And they fall off and it's supposed to be better for him. I don't.

So what's your read now? Because you're so educated on this. Let's say you're walking around with your kids and you find a coyote shit at this time of year. Breza All I got on the whole, it was a dry area.

So wouldn't you find a coyote dropping the contains a castration band?

That would be a little larger band. In your head, but in your head, would you be like, oh, he ate a castration band or would you be like he ate a lamb and thereby got the castration banned? I would encourage him.

Well, the castration band fall off eventually with magic.

With the scrotum. Yes. What's Jachin to not mean? I see, Jake, and I said marriage is nuts, not lamb, although I said he Jake the nut, which I know that I'm going to think of something I think is something that I mean. Yeah.

Another positioning of the in your mouth. Yeah.

I'm going to think of like I'm going to do some kind of inventive thing. Call it Jake and not just act like it's always been called that.

Oh so you feel that the band. OK, so when you put the band on and I know lamb and show me with your fingers how big a castration band is for cattle.

I mean. It goes down when you when you first put it on, it's probably that long and you hook it and then whenever you hook it around, it probably ends up, you know, that big advantage.

So you could feasibly pass your fist through the castration like a bracelet? I would say so, yes. OK, yeah. Because like I said, this one was like a wedding ring. Right. But here's the thing. I got so curious about it. First, I showed it to some livestock people. My body dug in particular, and he confirmed that the castration band and then he sent me a link where I could buy that castration band, I could get 100 of them for a couple of bucks if I was in the mood.

They stick you on the tool. Right, yeah, it's like you buy the tool and get the bands for free, basically, um, so you feel the one he's wearing the castration band like you, you put the band on to apply pressure, make incisions for him to drop out. Does that band then fall the way it should?

Yes. OK, so it could be on the ground in the Khodaidad, you know. Yeah.

How do you know that? Like was there lamb hair there. Like how do you know was from a lamb. Because that's the kind of castration Banda's, so my wife grew up on a farm and she had a cat wander into the yard one time and they were checking out the cat, looking at over. They'd never seen it before and it had a castration band on it. And so I don't think they're like just exclusive to one critter, especially for you.

Don't you don't think that a farmer through that castration band. He got into his lamb castration band, been through it on a cat.

I'm just saying there's no I'm just saying, OK, OK, I cannot rule out especially like, what if it was on a human.

What if what if someone likes the way it feels to a person, like out in ranch country? Do I think it was a house cat? No, I don't know. It's a good idea, though. I've talked about this before, but I don't care. I'll talk about it again.

We had a cat named Fig. It's kind of a long story, my dad tamed a wild housecat. The renamed Fiqh, he trained it with fishheads. Because it would come around in the winter and you just leave out bluegill, perche heads for it after clean and fish and he took a great liking to this cat. And he took the cat. There was a guy named Nel's. Nel's, Kali's Nel's I, he's a hog farmer, Michael Man took pfeg over to Nel's his house.

To Stonehill's because he's castrated hundreds of pigs. Well, man takes the cat over there, and I went with them, my brothers went with them and they put that cat in a gunnysack. Snipped a hole in the gunnysack and snaked his little scrawl out that hole and that care fought them off, they got a nick in the cat.

The cat fought them off so viciously that they just said, never mind the cat, he'll back up and lived its entire life with intact off a hog farmer who and I remember getting so upset, I went into the house because the cat was just making a ruckus.

Yeah. Whatever to the fish hatchery, we use castration bands and tools on fish knill almost, almost when we would ship fish out, say you had like fry sized perch, which would be the size of your fingernail. We would put them in this contract. Your bags were probably like 13 gallon bags, go water, fish, oxygen. And then to seal it up to make sure none of those things escaped, we would use a castration band with the tool and slide it over the garbage bag or to get a good seal on the garbage.

That's how we would close it. So we use them. Maybe he ate a sack of fish maybe hundreds of times a year.

We'd use that as COHA multitasks. The job becomes multipurpose. The job we use the trucks, we pump him into the lake or anything like that.

Yeah, we would do that if we had bigger fish. But this this would be an example where we were shipping it across the country to somebody else and these would just go in FedEx trucks just like all the crap you get from Amazon right next to them. Right.

Could you use castration bands to do those fancy silicone wedding rings? You guys do know it's not like that because it's I don't wear a wedding ring at all anymore.

I mean, my wife both quit nothing about the status of our marriage, just like, I don't know, ten years.

Eleven years just over it. No, no. I lost mine.

It's a it's in an analog. It's probably in the sky. It's gut because I lost it.

Got an antelope in Wyoming last year and I just haven't gotten around to getting a new one. No women have talked to me or hit on me. I'm sorry. Well, that's the thing. Like people would say, like you said, also, you know, you wear a wedding ring to say like that. But I feel like I've achieved an age where.

It's just not like I don't need to have, like an outward symbol demonstrating that I just smell kind of like I just look taken you to help people understand.

I look like just played out. Yeah. I don't need a ring anymore.

A couple things we got to cover. Well, one last thing, you guys know the southern writer, he died, did you know the writer Larry Brown? You ever hear Larry Brown? Larry Brown? I'm not sure what he read.

What is but what's his father and son look up when you guys are looking at Larry Brown.

He has some stuff optioned by the Coen brothers and stuff. He wrote a book called Fire. Father and son, son has just been made in the movies. He's a good dude, man. He was from Oxford, Mississippi. He was a firefighter and. You know, when you're a firefighter, you have all that time between calls. So he wrote, Facing the music, Dirty Work, Big, Bad Love, Joe on Fire. Father and Son Fay Billy Ray's farm rabbit factory.

Miracle a catfish.

That's what I'm fixing to talk about in Tiny Love. He was a he worked at a fire barn. It was right when all the other guys like working out and barbecuing and stuff, you would like go upstairs and write he wrote seven novels before he had one published. He wrote a novel, one of his first novels he wrote was about a man eating bear in Yellowstone Park and he'd never seen a bear and never been to Yellowstone Park and eventually got it together.

Like I should write about a dude I should write about, like the dudes that I know. Here in Mississippi, yeah, and the dudes that grew up around and instead of writing about bears and parks and whatnot, he starts writing about. The dudes you grew up around and found tremendous success. He was telling me the story someone mentioned, like you mentioned, dumping fish out of a truck. He was telling me one time about they had these catfish where they raise catfish and they'd have the brood stock are like the big old catfish that would produce the same.

Produce all the eggs now, then it has like let them go and people always let them go secretly and he had somehow gotten a line on where they were letting these old giants go, you know?

It would go on fish farm and in that kind of made its way into a it made a way into his novel that he wrote a couple touch off on, you should have brought your guitar because you know why we could you could have written a ditty. Yeah.

To introduce because we had a we wrote it we had a song written to introduce one Yanase who's not here right now. He's out on assignment, a ditty to introduce when Yoni's does some reporting for us would have had to have been about castration bands and stuff.

No, you could have done those. You could have done a ditty introducing Spenser's The Ditty The to play it, but it did. It introduces Johnny's thing is like a little ditty. Then it goes Johnny's book report and you could make a ditty that introduces one. Spencer, explain something.

A show segment like Spenser's Corner.

Go ahead, Spencer. Don't don't start with it.

Oh, you made one up. I was going to said the dum dum dum dum. Start with the flock shooting deal, then we'll get to the other stuff.

Because you were telling me about that.

Oh, this was just like right this fresh less than an hour from where we're sitting, you know, distance wise to to drive there.

And it's just from last weekend, which is opener. But there was a BMA, which is private land that is leased by the state for public hunting opportunity. And there were is reported one hundred hunters flock shooting at a group of elk, which is hard to fathom.

Can I give a little context of how I wasn't there? And I read the article, but for instance, we had a very early snowstorm. That we had a snowstorm that hit before firearm season opened and it caused a lot of things that would happen later to happen early. I the day before that season, Open was aware of a herd of 250 out, it turned up down in the hay field they don't normally or an alfalfa field they don't normally turn up.

And I wonder if it wasn't that a bunch of elk refilling into some area that happened to be a black man. Obama and word started to spread.

It does share, I've seen that and people like, you know, there's a bunch of them. So tell us more. Yeah, well, and with that snowstorm, we had like two or three days of record lows for most of the state, specifically, Bozeman had record lows.

So I would imagine you're correct in that these elk showed up in a place they normally wouldn't. It was a weird one.

We had a record high and a record low within like a couple of weeks of each other. When was the record high?

Wasn't there a record high around that day that the fire blew up? Oh, you're probably right. Yeah, it was really I think it was a record high for that, like the day that right around the day the fire blew up, there was a record high, but a record high just means like that day.

Yeah, it was the hottest that day ever. That is pretty par for Montana.

Follow this National Weather Service count that it was shows the high and the low each day in Montana. And it's pretty awesome because there's like a 70 degree difference. Every big swings between like Hardin, Montana, which is out east and then West Yellowstone. West Yellowstone is like 90 percent of the time the coldest place in the state. The coldest place. Yeah. So with these Ilke 100 hunters flock shooting a group of elk, 50 of the elk die, it had to be like a pretty crazy scene and there was an expectation that it's like it's like a cliff drive.

Yeah, I think there was an expectation that with all this shooting going on and wounded elk and what have you, that there was just going to be a whole bunch of tickets written out of the whole thing. There were only five tickets written. I think it was 50. The elk were killed and the citations were fairly minor. Greg Lemond said we didn't get as many tickets as you'd think.

Hunters were fortunate that not more elk were injured. But he went on to say unethical hunting, even if it's strictly speaking legal, makes all hunters look bad. It kind of gives the hunting community as a whole a black guy.

So he was he was saying, despite there only being a handful of tickets, this was not a good deal. It was not on the up and up this flock shooting of elk. And they said that they were certainly wounded elk that got away. There's just not much as far as citations can be written at this time.

Nice work, guys. I seen that on the news. Was it an organized effort? Like, I don't even know that you to know 100 people, but that's where I was. That was my first thought as.

So how did they get 100 people to talk to your warden once that worked a case where it was where these guys got on to a herd and were texting, which is illegal.

You can't use to weigh electronic communications. Yeah. To coordinate.

So if someone was saying like, hey, I'll go around this way, you go around that way, over text or whatever, that's illegal.

But then you start seizing phone records and I don't know, there's a couple bars in that area that I would have in mind, like where this took place. And there's like major roads that are kind of run through them. I would imagine that this happened were like a couple of guys started shooting the elk running and just like they happened to pass by more and more people as they went, I doubt that it was like 100 people within a, you know, a couple of minutes span shooting, which probably was drawn out throughout the morning.

Well, and I mean, I hate to say it, but this and longer, ladies and gentlemen, this is this is far more common than than we might like to think. I saw a very similar thing happen quite a few years ago. And I think kind of what happens is like these these elk get pushed out under their winter range and then everybody sees them and everybody's got the same idea. Oh, I've got the I've got the secret. I know where they're at.

And that that's exactly what happened. We knew where a herd was.

We knew where they were going up into the foothills. And we hiked in up above in the in the dark. And then as it was getting light, you know, we're seeing all these elk down in the bottom of this valley. But then there's two hunters over. There's two hunters over. There's another guy coming up behind them. They're just we're like, oh, well, this wasn't a big secret. We everybody else figured this out, too, and they didn't really come close to us.

But as first light came in, people were just ripping at these things right into the herd. There's probably 75 elk, I think 12 hunters. And we probably heard 50 shots in the first hour. And there's there's a rag horned bull that got hit in the back legs. It was dragging its back legs across the field for half a mile. And this guy's just like ripping shots at it, 800 yards. And Miss, miss, miss, miss.

It was it was awful, man. It was is the worst thing I've ever seen in the field. We just like we got out of there mostly because, like, people were shooting our direction. We're trying to get out. And I mean, if I don't like hunting around other hunters in general, but like, it was it was appalling.

You got one of these you got to think about when that happens is. For each individual just being present, you can't condemn someone for being present because, like you said, they like noticed a good play for opening morning. And so what are they supposed to like, back out? Because other people notice the same thing.

But then I guess the partya, the actual part would be like if you're shooting into a ball and when they get scared, they start to ball up. Yeah. When you're shooting into a ball of something, I mean, that's then that becomes the questionable thing. But just the fact that, like, a bunch of people showed up and you were there to like, you can't, like, damn someone for that. Yeah.

And this area where I was in is is like in the Montana hunting culture is known for this near anakonda.

People call him and a commando's know that that guy that guys will like group hunt these these elk herds on their on their winter range. So I think a lot of this stuff happens every year, maybe not on this scale. But I mean, Cal just sent me a story out of Washington where they, like, finally caught these guys who would chase elk with chase elk with trucks. In a very coordinated fashion, that's the story of. My buddy, my late friend, Eric Kernen, was hunting the bridges one time and he was looking down.

And watched on opening day, watched guys come out with trucks and corral, heard l can kill a bunch of. And he wouldn't call, he wouldn't report it. Yeah, apparently, apparently locals knew knew about this, knew about these guys for years and years. But there are some kind of prominent ranchers in the group and it was on private ground.

But apparently it was some out of towners who reported it who didn't have like the the local repercussions. But I got in touch with the warden about that. I'm thinking about running down that story right now for the site. Pretty interesting.

Spencer, you ought to do you mind calling and getting hold of that that landowner and ask him if he was asking if he was like, great, because a lot of guys, the one elk eating their crops. Sure. I mean, she like. Yeah, man, good. That's not a big area.

It's probably easy to track down. Like, I would love to hear his perspective on it. Yeah. He might be like I got no problem with it. Or he might be like, dude, I'm not doing this anymore. My brother is involved in a he's involved in an effort and runs this effort to.

Vanc to like appreciation days for people, ranchers who enroll in black management. So he's found that the thing people need that's expensive and like much appreciate her calf shelters. So he puts his efforts into raising money to buy CAT or whatever else people need, but in certain areas it's like an expensive thing that people really want are much appreciated. He tries to buy. He raises money to buy KAF shelters to give to ranchers who enroll in black management and then they throw a party for people.

To come out and try to entertain them, feed them, give them door prizes and gifts in order to help encourage that guy, might need a little morale boost. Well, yeah, and that's that's why I need a couple of calf shoulders. That's a great thing to do.

Man And the block, the number of acres enrolled in block management has been declining in recent years. And I know that Hunter behavior is one of the leading reasons that people will pull land out of that program. So anything hunters can do to to thank folks who let them on their property is is huge. And I always I always try to try to send the thanks, give some meat or whatever you can do, because it's you know, it's a huge benefit to the to the public.

Steve, I thought in the past you've predicted how you will someday die. Was it heart disease that you said that your prediction was.

Well, yeah, because the number one killer of people my age was opioid overdose. You know, maybe that song on a Segway now I'm segueing now into the heart disease, you like people, you know, like making sausage. Last night we were answering like common sausage questions was like, what about nitrates and nitrates? I'm like, dude. Put a little pink salt in the Corn Belt, I just think that's not what I like when I die there, not the doctor.

The medical examiner is not going to that was he put pink salt in his corndog. It's just not going to be what happens.

There's a bonus bit of reporting in this Great Falls Tribune article, this is related to the LGF that they snuck into the last paragraph heart attack, although I have many questions about it, says meager county undersheriff Jeremy Ma Ma.

It's pronounced ma. You say that, Ma. I butchered that then, too. I didn't even know Montana history. Thomas Ma.

OK, I relate to that. Absolutely.

And I was calling it meager for oh a long time. And you need to look into, into Thomas Ma. He, he, he was one of the first politicians in Montana, but his death was really like mysterious.

He got like thrown off a paddleboat.

In southern Missouri, like no, like what he call he wasn't doing stand up paddleboarding. You know, you know, like the paddle paddle barges that they you idiot. Is that the right call on the right thing?

Paddleboat. Yeah. Yeah. Stand up. Not paddleboat. Go Maverick. Yeah. Yeah.

But but he's fascinating character.

There's a bar in Missoula called the Thomas Moriba. Hmm. Yeah. So that's spelled meager. Yeah. Yeah.

M e a g h e r to hado.

I'd come here for like two years and then you fixed your system. Who corrected you when you lived in that county.

No, no, no, no, no, no. My I'm on, I'm on Yellowstone Street in town and one block over you are mispronouncing that meager street or M..

I'm with you now. So whenever I would drive by, there is a tirhas like, you know, with with a friend in the car who knew better saying, oh yeah, either just that, oh, there's Meeker Street. And you go down there like, what do you mean meager. Oh my God. Look at the sign and me H.E.R. And they're like Curran's sweetheart. That's just not right.

Let me let me let me hit you real quick with his his history, because it's way crazier than I was suggesting. He was an Irish nationalist leader of young islanders in a rebellion in 1848, convicted of sedition and sent to Tasmania. And then he escaped Tasmania and got to the United States, you know this guy like Paul, of course he yeah.

And then joined in the American Civil War, rose to the rank of brigadier general.

But, you know, that means Brigadier General know, that's what Custer was.

It means that all the generals are getting killed off and you and you got to make like temporary general appointments. Uh.

I think so. I wasn't tracking.

Yeah, I'm I'm reading about you appointed. To as the secretary of state of Montana, the Montana territory, and eventually became the territorial governor, but he yeah, it was.

He drowned in 1867 after falling from a steamboat in Fort Benning, the cause of his death is disputed by historians with various hypotheses, including weakness from dysentery, intoxication, suicide or murder.

Hmm. Timothy Egan wrote and wrote a wrote a book about him really well before he started big, you know. Damn, I you like to pull the court, the so-called bio's things like a drinking man's BioMarin.

All right, that's great. So the the Martin County undershot, you're talking about the gold.

You got served below this article or they work in the article. They just work it in.

And in the end, it's like not really relevant, but it's like interesting. And this is what I have more questions about than the the flock shooting of Elk.

Mar County Undersheriff Jeremy West said one of the hunters in the group later died from a heart complication that was unrelated to the incident. The person's name was not immediately released.

That was like that had to add like chaos and chaos out there. So they threw it in, though it wasn't related, you sure, but I imagine like somebody who was maybe also in that area but like didn't wasn't aware of what was going on, maybe like saw an ambulance or an air lifted or like a helicopter.

Oh, they're clarifying for people maybe.

I assume so, because that had to like add questions to this whole event and then they're like, oh, someone got shot.

Yeah. You gotta make some calls, man, you've got to do some investigative journalism now, now, now, I'm hung up on Thomas Moore that worked out into your career that that trumps the rest of this, I think. All right.

We got let's move on quick. I we got to get to our guests. We've got two things we have covered. So just recently we had an episode was that episode called Oh Good Good People for a Good Country Yet.

We talked about how Utahans. Is that what you would say, Utah? Yeah, Utahns that, you know, you try that, you just try.

All right. That's one of the teams in college. Yeah, yeah.

Oh, well, that's what Utah's named after, though, that tribe. But I would be completely wrong. I believe it is Utahns.

At the election. Have a ballot measure. And it's whether or not to encode to codify the right to hunt and fish in Utah. And we were talking about when we were covering this piece of news with the gas from Utah who's who who introduced this bill for the state we're talking about, where does this where do these things find their teeth? Like, let's say a state has a state right to hunt and fish. They have a constitutional right to hunt fish.

Like, what does that mean?

Like where does the rubber meets the road on that? Just so happens that. We now have the first lawsuit. In this state, this is you know, this is local news for us, but national news for everybody else, I think it's fair to say, because for the first time someone's doing a suit, suing the state, the governor, fish and game, various people.

Using the right to hunt and fish. As their argument. What they're doing is there's a conservation group. Well, the name of that group. Unwrite, hertel. I kind of like them, though, Outdoor Heritage Coalition, the Outdoor Heritage Coalition. Is suing the state. Governor Fischer, game office and others under the right to hunt and fish thing, they're suing the state for putting a for putting what they regard as being too conservative of a quota around the wolf harvest.

It's infringing on the right to hunt fish because wolves are decimating elk numbers in these areas. So they're saying by you putting an unnecessary cap.

And the killing of overpopulated wolves. You are infringing on our right to hunt and fish because you're allowing all of our game to get decimated. Which is slye. Are they even reaching quotas currently for wolves? I mean, I felt like that was I felt like the bottleneck for wolf reduction was hunter effort because they're hard as hell to kill.

Yeah, that was easy for a couple of minutes. Then it got hard.

Yeah, they got smart and they have huge territories and they're just sly bastards. You rarely see them just telling you what to do. A follow up report. That's interesting. I bring it up only because we were talking about when does it when does the wind is like if you have the right to hunt fish, when does that actually even become a leg?

It's like, okay, that's all good and fine, but where is it exercised?

And so this is an example of someone trying to exercise it. Sam, just pull up a little map showing. A map shows which states have a constitutional right to hunt fish if you're into conspiracy theories. I think you should explore the facts. I would explore the fact that the states, when you look at a U.S. map, were the states that have.

Do you like how they put it in red? Yeah. What are they used for when you don't agree?

No, it's California. That's for legislation on constitutional right to hunt and fish is pending.

Oh, I like that. They put this red red as you have the right to hunt fish. California is the only blue. There's also Rhode Island. But that's.

So it's California's Gigas is pending, but they'll never ênio. This is three years old. So that was great.

But if you're into conspiracy theories, though, you might want to look at this map, because the states that have a right to hunt fish form a circle, let me see.

So with a hole in the middle, huh?

I think there's something to be delved into there. That's not accidental. What are the two gray ones are out there in the middle? Yeah, that's what he's talking about. That's South Dakota, Iowa, Missouri and Illinois.

So once you know a good lefty, Antasari, in Illinois, you don't have the right. Those are big.

Well, the constitutional right, you know, there's there's the right to hunt and fish and all of these states. But some some states have have chosen to say that it's like, you know, it's a God given right. That you can right. That you can hunt and fish, which, yeah, I've always been interested to know, like where the rubber meets the road there, like, like how you use it.

Yeah.

So I mean, if that were to pass in California, like the only thing that comes to mind is how California, you know, banned fur trapping.

Because even if you were told that, would that well here's here this unconstitutional, even in a hard hitting hunting and fishing state like Utah.

He they didn't put trappin on there because they didn't want to muddy the waters and lose popularity, but he said it's actually. It's there's an implicit it's like implied the cover trapping and should be used, but if you put trappin on there to lose support. That's interesting. That's where you got to use it to be, because this says that Montana has a constitutional right to hunt fish, which I did not know. But I mean, it makes sense.

But, yeah, there's that legislation introduced like every time to ban trapping on public land. Mm hmm. So I wonder where that where that falls. Because they're too chicken to put trappin on their due date, I'm going to once I get gunfighting Hunter's orange laws and get the whole everything reduced to just the Hunter's orange has all you need.

I'm going to take up right to trap. I'm with you. What else do we want to talk about that? Not much to say about that.

If you're in Colorado and you were one of the when I'm predicting to be you're one of the minority of people who voted against making the state draw up a wolf reintroduction plan.

I applaud you. Because they're arriving on their own, they're there now anyway, that's the path to take. That's the path to take. So thank you. You know, I'm sure you lost. One last thing, guys, are you OK? I'm good. One last thing, OK, hit. Spencer, wait, we need the intro. What thing that the last thing that I know about I don't remember. I don't know. I it.

Oh, speaking of suing people, how's that for a Segway? I sent you the article to do a little report on it. Oh, I don't have anything to report. You're going to be able to produce a better report than I.

One of the things right now.

I'm extremely disheartened with the Trump administration over their decision to lift roadless rules in Tongass. And open up like half of Tongass National Forest to logging and road building. That's a peizer. Yeah, but what I have been applauding them for is opening up a bunch of U.S. wildlife refuges, where appropriate, opening up hunting and fishing on a bunch of U.S. wildlife refuges and fish hatcheries and stuff. So creating more acreage for Americans to hunt fish.

The Center for Biological Diversity is suing them. So that they can't trying to stop that from happening under the Endangered Species Act, which I'm interested to see that complaint, because they didn't open it up to hunting endangered species.

That's the thing I think these people haven't read. I think that the the Center for Biological Diversity hasn't read up on what it is I do like. Oh, they're going to start hunting endangered species. They can't do that. It's like, no, they're not going to start hunting endangered species.

They're allowed to hunt the normal shit that everybody gets to hunt per state rules on refuges where it makes sense, which you can already do in a bunch of them anyway.

Yeah. It opens up an additional three thousand six hundred square miles, you can hunt shitloads of refuge land already, it's opening up some additional ones and assume as though this is one of those groups that like.

There are a lot of things one of the things they are is an anti hunting organization, every you will never I challenge a listener to send me a thing where the Center for Biological Diversity hasn't taken a knee jerk reaction against hunting.

No, that's what they do, but they're like when I tell friends, oh, it's like being in a hunting group.

Oh no, they're not like, OK, there they are. It's not their, like mission, but they emerge as a nit picky. Like a very nit picky like and highly litigious, yeah, any issues like, let me guess, let me guess, let me guess. They're going to be their stance will be antagonistic to the interests of hunters and fishermen.

Maybe I'm wrong. Is there any national fish hatchery that you can hunt on? Well, there's not that I've ever done, but I know there was some fish hatcheries that have some sizable holdings. It wouldn't be in there if it wasn't I haven't looked at I haven't looked at the fish hatchery component, but it's part of some fish hatchery that's got a couple thousand acres on them.

And there's some giant ones in Washington that I wouldn't be wouldn't be at all surprised to know that hunting was allowed and totally would fit in with the management.

Now, fish in a fish hatchery, that could be good. Well, in Washington. In Washington, that's the whole point. I got another one.

You're always people are always piled up right around the hatchery hole. We used to call it the there's one particular one we called the the crack pipe because there is just this one cast that you wanted to make because all these steelhead would pull in right below the outflow of the hatchery because they get that they get that sent, you know, that they they come back to and you can if you could make this one tricky cast up into into the concrete outflow of the hatchery, you would catch a steelhead nearly every time.

Yeah. And probably really excited about it. Yeah. Yeah. So a bit more on this then. We're going to wrap this up.

So in this country we have in the in the USA we have five hundred and fifty wildlife refuges.

This this move, this additional three thousand six hundred square miles will bump it up to where you can now hunt on 430 refuge's. Four hundred and thirty of the 550 you can fish on 360 of the 550. Has implications for people in 37 states. I think it's a common misconception in in the in the public sphere that wildlife refuges.

Exclude hunting, I mean, and honestly, the naming isn't isn't that great, it seems like a a refuge where animals can go flee from us horrible hunters or something, where they go to flee from development.

Yeah, absolutely. And I've corrected people on this tons of times that like this is this is habitat refuge.

This is this is undeveloped land. This is but it's meant for it's meant for people's enjoyment. And there are I mean, like half of Alaska's national wildlife refuges, I mean, not half, but like giant giant portions. And all of it's wide open to hunting. So I think I think there's a I think there's a broad misunderstanding that we could correct, you know, in the public eye that that hunting is a is an important management tool on our National Wildlife Refuge system.

No. You know where I bet I'll be allied with the Center for Biological Diversity? I bet you I could guarantee amte they're annoyed about the Tongas ruling. I'm certain they are. So maybe me maybe we can find a little friendship and hug over that. The holiday season sure knows how to lighten up the ol wallet if you need life insurance but don't want to deal with the hassle or expense, try policy genius. Policy genius combines a cutting edge insurance marketplace with help from licensed experts to save you time and money.

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As hunters damn near every day of hunting season can feel like Christmas, but don't forget the actual real life. Holiday season is coming up quick and Benchmade knives make great gifts. And I'll tell you, man, there's a lot it's nice to get a knife for Christmas, especially like a good one.

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I'm not asking you what any songs mean, but why is it offensive that people ask you what the song means? No, I didn't say it was offensive. We were talking about you said you hate it.

Yeah, but I don't know what they mean. But why does that bother you? Because I would feel. No, no, go ahead.

Yeah, no, we were just talking about how people take how you can write a song and people are. I wrote it and I think it means one thing.

You got a different. Idea of what it meant because it meant something different to you? You know, it's all different and I think there's some magic in that. I think that's neat.

So I don't I don't mind. So can I ask that question?

And it's like now I want to I want to tell you, I'm with you now.

They're like, when I hear this, it gives me this feeling of I sent my brother a song.

And that's that's that's cooler. It's like abstract art. Yeah. It's like it's it's in the eyes of the beholder.

And it could be so far out in left field and you're like, yes, that's a nice it means that to them. And like, what did I say? I said it was like when you read a book and you have a character in your mind and you see the movie and they don't look anything like that. It's like the same thing.

It's like it's like you ever watch the movie The Road? Yeah, I think so, yeah.

Cormac McCarthy is the road in the end is, you know, a little boy whose dad dies and he wanders out your road gets picked up by this guy. Cormac McCarthy describes him in the book as being like he looks like he survived many skirmishes.

And anyways, the dude in the end of the movie, I'm like, that's not who that is.

Yes. I was like, I had this way off. Yeah. The image I built with very little information.

See, I read that book after reading the movie or after watching the movie. Yeah. So, so yeah. So which I hate, which I hate doing because then the movie informs it because you don't, there's less creativity going in the reader's perspective. That's a really.

I like that answer. I was expecting to be annoyed by your answer, but that's a great answer. I don't hate it, but it was just like I like it to be open to interpretation, especially on some songs. I don't have any specific ones in mind, but, you know, people get different, different ideas and I think that's cool.

Well, I was telling him this morning that that his song Man must be about fish and frog, bass or bass.

That's what that's what it means to me. And ain't nobody gonna tell me different. Yeah.

What did you hear in response?

He said, Oh, I said, my brother, you're here.

Sturgill Simpson, cover that song when you need a friend. Yeah. The promise. Yeah, the promise. Oh yeah. Yeah. I said to my brother and he wrote me back saying I reminded him of his first dog, felt like it was about or reminded him of his first dog dying.

Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And I'm like, yeah you can't say, well that's not what it's about by a guy. Yeah. Yeah.

It's cool to say.

I know people want to hear that sometimes, but sometimes it's like I just let it just let it be, you know, especially like before the album comes out we'll do a lot of questions and stuff and the like. Want you to explain each song and stuff like that.

It's like, nah, but that feels so reductive. It right. It's like, yes, tell me tell me literally what the thing is so that this is how I'm supposed to think about it instead of having your own relationship to hearing your music.

Yeah. Thousand percent. That's, that's what, that's what I meant.

Do you are you able to share with fans and listeners like if they say here's what I think about when I hear it. Do you then have do you then refrain from saying, that's great?

I love it, you're right. Here's what I was thinking. Or do you not even do that? Could you be pulling the trump card now?

Yeah, it's just like Trump. I don't remember how different responses to it, but it's it's cool.

Whatever they think are more than that. They would probably ask your, hey, what does this mean? And that's cool, you know.

But, you know, not necessarily I'd like to interview telling everybody what it's supposed to mean. Did that mean that it's like, no, I was actually about this that's like a little bit different.

So that's how I would do that.

I see your colleague here as a Stones tattoo. Oh, yeah, did you get that? That was right after the show, I got it literally. I got it in Seattle that day, really after we we played immigrant here, Montana. I was at that show, went you went to Soldier Field, played that. And then we circled back around to Seattle at the I guess the Neptun and then I got it there.

Chris introduced yourself, Chris PWG, content creator for Wisky Myers.

That was a big deal when it was cool. When you guys tell you a little bit about that, you wound up having sort of a sort of endorsement of sorts from the Stones. Yeah, just we got to open up a show for them at Soldier Field in Chicago. And it's just one of those things that's, like I say, once in a lifetime that's like a never in a lifetime thing.

And, you know, they they pick and and approve, I think make does all the all the bands they get to open forum. So just to be able to do that was really special.

And that's a there were a huge influence to me personally in the band also. You know, it's one of my favorite bands. It's not my favorite band. Yeah.

How could the best stuff about America be written by some British dudes?

Hey, but they were out. Yeah, but they understood America way better than Americans.

Well, they were trying to sing the blues man. Yeah. Yeah. And they love blues and country music and they come from America. Come from the South. Yeah.

It's really interesting think that they were like, do you think they had lived like six lifetimes in America.

Yeah. Yeah they're great. Put it this way.

Like Jamie, our bass player said, we're talking about how cool you know, they he was like, we could go and play Soldier Field and sell it out and it still wouldn't be as cool as players.

Oh, yeah. As open for the Rolling Stones at Soldier Field.

So it was it was great. Which one of your band mates is laid up right now from crashing to you, from crashing to side by side? What's that all about?

That's John Van John and you guys were hot dog and hot dog. And I wasn't there. You weren't even present now.

He definitely was. John's always kind of been reckless with an ATV. You look closely. You might I said John's always been reckless with an ATV. So he was definitely hot dog and it was definitely a.

And who's this now, John? Was he play? His name's John. Jeff Bridges, our guitar player. Oh, so tell what happened.

There was in the pursuit of game, he was running down a hurdle. He was literally he went to go cut one donut from a dead stop and he rolled it and and he didn't have a seatbelt. So he's kind of watch this. Pogue was actually with him and he was buckled in, thank goodness.

So he he they said they rolled three times. John said they rolled once. We don't really know. So nobody saw it except for them.

But when there's a dispute about whether it was three rolls or one roll. Yeah.

So, OK, he's at a standstill and he's like, let's cut a cookie for no reason. He was on one of these, like jacked up like it was.

It's a Polaris razor. It's like this big jacked up kind of top heavy type vehicle. And so and it's very powerful. So he just gunned it. And when he did, it just completely flipped over. And I don't think he he definitely didn't think it would do that.

Cracked his skull. It did. It was pretty serious, actually. He is fine. He is fine, by the way. But he's going to make a full recovery. But he's good. He's very good.

What's your. What's your guy's connection? Like, how did you get into hunting and fishing? Were you in the hunting fishing before music? Yeah, way before.

So talk through that like you're like I kind of like to hunt fish, but kind of like music.

Yeah, I would. Music was so foreign to me. I always. It was. Yeah. I mean, I liked it. I loved, you know, music.

You listen to music, your parents listen to music as a kid, but nobody would.

Your parents listen to you, you know, scattered Hank Williams Jr., Allen Jackson, stuff like the typical stuff like that.

You you're throwing Alan Jackson with Skinner and Hank Williams Jr.. Well, yeah, I would say yeah, that would probably that would probably have been like Beach Boys.

They would have, you know, like some, you know, old rock old country.

And then they would have been listening to, like, the current stalwarts. OK, yeah. No, that was good job. That was getting on the why question that. Yeah that all makes sense. You're conveying like a variety. Yeah. Rather than a style of. Yeah.

For sure because we have a lot of variety I think. How old are you now. I'm 35.

OK, um so yeah.

But playing music was kind of born to me because nobody in my immediate immediate family really played musical instruments or anything like that or whatever in a band.

But we always fished in hunt. So if you were to ask like the my younger self I would have thought it would have been what would you do when you grow up?

I would probably be like, oh, I'm a fish and hunt, not play music then. Did you grow kind of poor or what?

Yeah, we weren't super poor, but I would say, you know, middle class or lower middle class, I, my mom cut hair. My dad worked it.

You know, it was like prison guard. So that's not super lucrative jobs or anything.

How did you how did your dad handle being a prison guard?

Was he did he get that kind of like anger or was he. No.

Well, he was cool or not that he was not that that's not cool. I'm saying like, that's taxing job, I guess, is what I'm getting at.

It's hard. It can be because, yeah, they have to deal with a lot of crazy stuff. But where we're from, that's like I think like everybody in my family worked at the prison because there's like seven prisons outside of our area. And so when you're from our area, you either leave or you work for Wal-Mart or the prison system and explain your area. So we're from Palestine, Texas, around round there.

I'm actually from Naji's, which is about ten miles, fifteen miles outside of Palestine, which is just in east Texas.

You grew up together, right, Chris? Yeah, we did. Yeah.

We grew up playing playing baseball when we were young, since we were probably four or five. Yeah. So that's kind of how we that's kind of how we met. And then bass fishing was always real big for us when we were growing up. And like our our dads would take their vacations around, like when we were on spring break and we would go to Lake Fork every year we camp. Yeah, it was awesome.

I want to hear I want to hear you tell the audience about your thoughts on eating bass. I said it's the thing.

Yeah, I know. You know, people get all, you know, touchy about that. And it I don't you know, if that's what you want to do, I don't care. It doesn't bother me, but I always don't back, you know.

But have you ever eaten a largemouth. I don't. I'm sure I have when I was younger but not recently or anything.

So you guys knew each other four or five. And I was. And you were already fish and fish was in your families. Yeah. You guys have you guys have boats and stuff back then. We like bank fishermen.

Yeah. My dad had an old champion that we like rigged out for balance. Yes. Yeah.

I never had a boat until I was older so it was pond hopping unless I got to go with like y'all or like my dad's friends or something.

But yeah, fishing and hunting. I mean that's how we grew up. That was just in our DNA.

It's just it's like breathing. Just eat. I know you didn't eat those bass, but you guys grow up eating game and stuff. Yeah. Family Thamir ducks fish.

Yeah. Croppy crunchy stuff like that. Dove and then. But. Your your parents split up when you were young. Yes, yeah, how'd that play out?

Well, you know, are you talking about I mean, how did it impact us and impact your interests and whatnot?

Forest fishing and stuff that I mean, it was still the same for me, but my mom remarried my stepdad now and he was super big hunter. And so we actually hit it off and we didn't like best friends ever since and we would go.

So that was it wasn't the problem. Yeah. Yeah. That didn't affect that at all. Yeah.

I think a lot about I don't spend a lot of time on this book. I think a lot about. If I was to pass away all of a sudden. Heart disease, like, let's say I died right now, opioid addiction was that old right now and opioids. I'm like, what I rather my wife wound up with a dude like my brother or something, right? They're married, but let's say like some dude, like basically exactly like me.

Or would I rather she wound up with some dude way different? Yeah, not near as cool. Just wait. Like, which is which is more palatable for me, hmm? I don't know.

I don't think about that. If it was a dude way different, I'd be like. We must spend way mismatched or something. I see, which is a dude just like me. Be like I'll sleep. So I like the basic parameters were OK.

So, yeah, so she wound up like with another hunter. Yeah, did you have to. Did you feel like if you if you're growing up and you have a stepdad and a dad and they both like to go hunting? Yeah. Was that create like jealousy and stuff with your dad?

No, I was very fortunate. There was never any animosity. Everybody got along and they still get along in my family. So I know that it wasn't a bad thing where, you know, the side hates that sad or anything like that.

That's one thing I would not be able to stomach doing. Yeah. Some other guy taking my kid out. Yeah. Now everything was.

Yeah, they always got along and stuff, which is good, you know.

Yet, Chris, you had the same situation, right? Absolutely, yeah, our parents actually got a divorce around the same time our our dads were roommates there for a while.

So getting to kind of live together when we were in sixth grade, that's actually pretty much so.

Yes. It really stuck together. Yeah. All of us really known each other in the band for the most part forever. We're just all from the same area.

We grew up together, you know, what's it like now that you're, you know, you've had some had not had having success and kind of like doing this thing that isn't on the radar of people you grew up around? Is it challenging?

Is it like that you lost your way and you're not one of us anymore? That kind of stuff. Go on.

I, I don't know. I don't not to face at least we haven't changed very much. We're kind of the same.

I mean, obviously we're older and been around the world see change a little bit, but I keep my blinders on earth.

Sounds fake, but it's real. I mean, we all do like I don't care about any of it. I just go out and do my do my thing.

You kind of have a little bit of a reputation for. I want to get back to how you got into music, so don't forget that. But, yeah, you have a reputation as a. Kind of playing by your own rules a little bit. Yeah, and being leery of not antagonistic toward, but maybe leery of, shy about industry stuff. Yeah. Like maintaining control and all that. Yes.

Do you feel that that's kind of. Is that like an artistic thing or is that like a thing from growing up, how you grew up.

I'd say both.

Yeah, we, I mean we just wanted to do our own thing. We wanted to play our own music. Some people get into music, I think, and they want to be famous. You know, they don't care. They want to be famous.

Like, that's that's that's that's that's the goal. There's nothing wrong with that.

But I don't think anybody in our band had that ever in mind. It was like it's what you did.

We played music. We're in a band now. That's what we do.

And it was important for us to have our own style and have our own control.

And I think that probably has be a little bit to do with your upbringing bragging or being a little bit, you know, ignorant redneck.

Now, I know that I'm going to do it my own way. Yeah, but that was very important.

It's still important to us. So that's why we've never signed any record deals or anything.

We've always been independent and we always want to be. I think I do. I don't like why the hell do I want to boss?

Do you feel a lot of calls about signing a record? Deals we had we've had we'd have have had opportunities and stuff like that.

And we just it's just not for us, you know, especially with the band like us, we're a little different.

You know, we don't fit a certain genre, a certain style. And I don't think they would even know what to do with this one genre.

Would you like self identify with if you if you had none? I don't even like genres. I think I think that's just like a thing for selling it. It makes it easier for people to put it in a box and sell it, you know, for marketing and stuff.

I'm not big on genres because like all the stuff that I like musically had so much like for the the Stones, for example, like they wrote some of the best country songs ever.

Oh yeah. Blues. It was rock and roll. It was pop.

And I wanted to be a shirt says my favorite country bands rock band. Yeah. Skittered so many different influences, even stuff like Waylon Jennings and stuff that was rock and roll. Those people back then in the country singing.

So I was always a big fan of people who did different stuff. Isn't it funny with like Waylon that if you read about Waylon now, people are like, oh, I hate country. Yeah.

So for that Waylon Jennings and Wailings Jennings time, it was like daddy country.

Yeah, exactly. It's really like the you know, I should tell you this about genres. It's kind of an interesting story.

When I was in school, I took this class called the Literature of Natural History. And you read everything, you know, like Henry David Thoreau, you know, like Walden and shit all the way up into a book about what is called like bioengineering or something. Basically, our engineers can look at cobwebs.

And make structural, you know. Like Honeycomb would give you, like ideas about how to make structural design, OK? Know, this guy that taught this class was Hank, which I remember his last name, he died. Him and his wife both drowned in a canoeing accident. Shortly after I took that class, they had a cabin out on the island where paddling out there and flipped and died, but. It brings up an interesting thing with the genre question, because he was really interested in this idea of natural history writing, and he would find that these books that he loved so much were hard for people to locate and hard to identify.

And as an example, he would go into a bookstore and find like books that should be together. We're scattered all around. And he actually contacted the Library of Congress where they come up with the numerical system to identify books. He contacted the Library of Congress and said, you guys have a problem. Where? You're not seeing what makes these books like the same, and you need to find a way for bookstores and other people to, like, draw these parallels between these this type of literature.

And then they actually invited him down. He did like a sabbatical and went down to design a to design a genre. Of literature. And you might instinctively, like, hate that kind of stuff, but in some way, like helps people locate things. Yeah, it definitely it does for sure. But just from the artistic side, I don't like to I would guess to answer that question, it would be kind of rock and roll.

Country and blues would be, I think, our three main influence type thing. That would be the best.

But far as like putting a line on it, I don't think I could put a you know, a specific genre.

I know you didn't you didn't say red dirt country, but I imagine you've had some dealings like with that industry. With what, red, red dirt country? Oh, yeah.

Well, explain that to me. I don't know you guys to do a better job than me. Yeah.

So I guess that would be kind of a sub genre, right? Very, very popular in Texas, which is in Oklahoma and the Midwest and stuff like that.

And a lot of those guys, it's the same. It's kind of rock and it's kind of country.

It's just it kind of takes everything a lot similar to like Americana, you know, like that from the outside.

Like red dirt country is a lot more wholesome and it's real. And it's not like mainstream country, which is like super fake and sellouts and stuff that's more gritty, I feel. Is that the case?

You don't think mainstream country is wholesome? Is that the reality, though, is that like red dirt country is what it seems and it's like it's not like mainstream country or do they, like, have the same kind of bullshit that you'd expect?

Well, any time you get into anything at all, there's a little bit of bullshit.

But no, I think it's very honest, kind of pure steel. And a lot of those guys, especially when we were younger, like the Jason Boleyn's in the ragweed and reckless Cayley's and stuff like that, they were there.

They were different, you know.

And so I think I don't know if they necessarily I don't know exactly how the name got it.

You know, where it come from. I'm sure people even know, you know. Older than them, I'm not sure about that, but I know it's, you know, called that now.

But yeah, it was just kind of the independent mindset, you know, but but like, for somebody who likes red dirt country, they can continue to like it because it is like what it seems.

Right? It's not like. Yeah, for sure. Good. Yeah.

I'm sure there's some bands I don't know if you know, I get I get hurt like Kelly Baquero, but it's like when you say like not what you can.

I don't get it. It's not like Luke Bryan, Kenny Chesney, folks like that.

You're saying like sometimes in mainstream you're getting a product that's not even controlled by the artist. Yeah. That's really put together and not even them. Second or third. It is independent and it's whether whatever that band sounds like it is actually realistically them. And I think I think 100 percent.

Yeah, like Luke Bryan would talk about shooting box Kopenhagen pickup trucks, stuff like that.

Somebody probably wrote that because you think someone was like, hey, here's some key words. Sure, sure. But like red dairy country is just like like I said, I know a little more on. What do they talk about? Capitally. Yeah. Then then they eat. They actually chew. Kelvin Haggen.

Oh. You think you might not like the cope.

Right.

I'm kind of curious about, you know, what what what is going through the minds of artists or non artists when they feel more comfortable defining themselves within a genre and what it is you feel like you might be bucking up against or not wanting to accept when people like our China are you this and this, do you hit this category in this? Like, what does that what does that feel like for you?

And sometimes you can just listen to an artist and you say, yeah, that's a rock and roll band. That's what it is. You say, oh, that's country.

That's straight up country, you know. Cody Jenckes, great pure country, that's country, you know, where somebody like us, I mean, one song might be country and the next song like like mud and we're like gutsy or years that almost Thracian.

So that's where it would be hard for me to do that because we do kind of go all over the place. And so I don't think you could say it's country or rock n roll.

Would you say that that's more authentic to like how you feel in a day in a song expresses like a mood and then expresses and you that that you're just expressing as a band all these kind of different.

Yeah, I think we just had a bunch of experiences and we decided to play whatever the hell we wanted to. And so that's kind of why it's like that.

When we saw you guys at the old saloon immigrant last summer, I know me and all my friends were were a little bit taken aback because I think I think you had, you know, some of your ballads have have become a little bit more more prominent and popular and, you know, really beautiful, really, really captivating. But you guys rocked out way harder than we were especially expecting.

Yeah. Yeah. And so it we are we are going there expecting more more of like more of like a full, you know, country kind of show. And it was a full on rock show. Yeah.

Especially love it. Yeah. We like to rock. It's fun, especially for the things people gravitate towards the ballads and slow songs. That's just people, people like sad songs. That is kind of sad.

If there's even a song I like called Sad Songs. Yeah, I think I've heard that Lou Reed said song. Yeah. Yeah it's true.

It's a true statement man. People dig sad songs. It's like, oh you want a sad song. Do you wanna call this song Sad Songs.

What percentage. And I'm not going to ask you what any shit means, but what percentage.

Ask me what percentage of your music would you say is informed by is informed by hunting, fishing, outdoor pursuits like even even in terms of the vernacular, I think a lot of vernacular.

I don't think I don't have any songs about hunting and fishing per say, but they'll they'll say stuff in them.

You know, gasoline has like. Yeah, I think Frog Man has a line know Ballad of a Southern Man has that line.

And so there's, there's things that you could tell.

Yeah. Like, like, like, like terminology or references or something.

Yeah. But not necessarily like I am going fishing today. Yeah.

One of my favorite lyrics and that's good. That's good. I'll take it as shit man. Well that one starts with my I don't mind work and I love to fish as a son of a bitch. Yeah. The first time I heard that I'm like yeah yeah I resonate with that. Yeah.

Oh do you. So now I'd like to ask people who are like somewhat in the you know, you know, at least somewhat or all the way in the public eye.

Do you? A lot of people who are interested in the blood sports get to a point where they feel they need to draw some separation because it's a liability. Yeah, I'll never be like that. But do you understand why they do it? Yeah, 100 percent.

Have you have you been in a situation like how would almost be easier if I just like wasn't associated, not too hot.

So it's kind of like, oh are European fans or not down with Putin and stuff like that.

But it's, it just comes from ignorance.

Like when I, when I had all those pictures of the hugs and stuff like that, you know, they were like everybody was bitching and stuff and I was like, shit, I guess I shouldn't even have posted that.

But you thought that for a minute. Yeah, but I mean, you know, whatever. But not to just be like, oh, I'm not going to hunt and all that stuff now.

I would I would never do that. That's just who I am. I'm not I'm not changing. I have no interest in changing to be bigger or famous or have more money or anything like that.

I'm completely fine with how I am.

Do you where do you draw your main. You mentioned like here from European fans, you mean like in social media comments? Yeah, supposedly they were lack of sex. We killed a bunch of pigs and that comes from ignorance. They didn't know that there wasn't an invasive species, so they shouldn't even have been there.

And we shot a bunch ducks yesterday. They're not.

Yeah, well, they probably would freak out about that, too, but that was really.

Yeah, I don't think we've had a lot of backlash other than that, but I don't have social media or anything like that.

So even if they were talking like shit, I wouldn't hear about it unless somebody told me, what's your main what's the main way you communicate with? What's the main way you, like, communicate with fans? Like, how do you know? Like what they're thinking?

I think Pogue tells you a lot.

So some of it goes back, keeping my blinders on and doing my thing, you know, try not to be influenced by that.

There's got to be some element of like some. Some metric that you look at. Hmm. I don't tell me not to do my thing. I guess I should be listening to somebody else.

I don't know what to do our thing, man. Well, I mean, where they going to tell me, like, oh, you should write this song, you know, like I'm not listen, I don't know what they tell you.

Yeah, something of it. Yeah.

I feel it's not that someone would say, you know what, in the position you're in, you know, you ought to do.

Yeah.

You never get that. Oh, that I know what is the stereotypical European fan like, is it like me and Sam Longrun or.

No, they're great fans, but they just don't see.

A lot of our American fans would understand more of the the gun side, the hunting side and stuff where they might lack our music, but they don't they don't see the same at all. So that would be the only difference.

I would say I've had those conversations with Europeans, man. And I really I really feel like, you know, that those many of those cultures have just become so divorced from hunting. Yeah. And it's the way that hunting has always been managed over there. It's always private land. It's always been kind of the realm of the aristocracy.

And it's usually not that people are opposed to killing animals or eating meat, but it's like they misunderstand our motivations, like do or die in lords.

And what exactly are a little suits and. Exactly. And those people are probably never even touching the dead animal, like maybe if it like arrives on their plate. But they've got like game managers and stuff for that.

And I know I've had a number of conversations with people in bars and, you know, in France and Germany, England, Italy, where where I talk about like, you know, how hunting is, you know, an integral part of the conservation of these species, how we do it for how we do it for meat, how it's deeply, you know, steeped in tradition. And it's just it's our it's our recreation. It's our it's our passion.

And people come around immediately. But at first they're like hunting.

Oh, but you are he just it's very far into it is. Yeah. People just don't get it. It's not as cognitive as in America.

It's just not it's not as big a part of the culture. It's it's such a small minority.

There far be it for me to be an apologist for the continent of Europe.

But it's been pointed out to me by listeners in Europe that when we talk about Europe.

We're talking about a large, extremely diverse area, yeah, so that's as though we're talking about England, but we say Europe, but what we're kind of mean is like what I've heard, the feedback I've heard from people is they're like, you've been to Scotland and England and you saw kind of what goes on there in the hunting world.

And then you extend that to the entire continent.

Right. Which I've been told is exceedingly ignorant.

Sure. Sure. But I still like to do it. It's fun. It's not. Yeah, it's not it's not a monolith. It's not a monolith, though, because there are doing they're doing Mr. Deeds right now.

There are dudes right now hunting moose on public land in Europe. Oh yeah. Over the canno and now in the frickin marshes for that. The one bird I want to get. The only one I was the only bird I want to get more than an isolated turkey. No, the only bird. The second bird I wanted, there's no bird I want more than Australia. Turkey second. That is one of them. Big name calorically things.

Yeah.

They're like are the size of a turkey. Yeah.

There are dudes out there right now skulking around on skis and snowshoes and shit. Bushwhacking around, trying to find one of those, it's not like, you know, you know, in some parts of Europe, the ones I'm more familiar with, like you hired the local poor kids to go out, beat the brush and touch them because you don't have to pick up any birds, the hard local poor kids to go pick them up for you.

Then you all go back and have a spot of tea and hot tea and they clean them all.

But it's like it's a big ass place. Yeah, but there there are Savea, there are some UniFi. There are some unifying aspects. I mean, they are there.

Well, that there isn't really that there isn't really a system of public land by and large in Europe, in Scandinavia. And there there are some kind of de facto public land. But it's where it ends.

It ends up being it ends up being more and it's also and firearms are far more restricted there.

So it's just that hunting becomes less and less. It's kind of a middle class, lower class activity as it can be in the United States. I mean, it spans, you know, kind of kind of the entire, you know, American society. But in Europe, it's it's definitely a lot more targeted towards rich people and fishings the same way, too.

I mean, there isn't there isn't an overwhelming amount of public access to to water in Europe. I fish quite a bit in Europe.

And you it's always incredibly difficult to you got to go to this one post office in this one town and pay thirty dollars for the stamp to be on this section of river that day. And you've got or you or or I mean in wherever it's better, it's, you know, there's one person who gets to be on that stretch of river that day and it costs, you know, fifty euro and there will be some public lakes. Usually salt water is less regulated.

But I think I think some of our early leaders in the conservation movement that allowed us to have these large swaths of land that are open to everybody really created something different. And the culture just diverged wildly from from over there.

And I've talked to I've talked to European countries quite a bit about this, who people who are interested, people who are allowed to go shoot pheasants and and rabbits, but never dreamed of getting to shoot a deer, because that's for that's for the the rich guys to do those powerful condemnation of Europe continue to be a great hey, I love Europe.

I got a lot of European great ones better.

Here is we get it hands down, get some kind of genuine European, genuine European.

I don't care about 150 million tracking hands. Did you find that anywhere in Europe who's got like a pan-European.

He's from a European country. And he identifies continentally good luck. Good luck, General. So here's what I want to nationalism, but you may have heard my idea yet. This is the anti generalization.

OK, got it. Idea if you're if you just give me a sec, OK?

So here's what you do as a producer. You find a European from Europe who has who has a pan-European interest set. They come on and deliver a crash course. In. Europe. Meaning like this swath of countries generally this and here's kind of what here's what their stereotype is like, I could go and do it for America.

I'd be like, oh yeah, down south to get all these rednecks. All they do is fish catfish.

Then over here you got these latest fish walleye all time. Kind of dumb, I hear.

It's like, you know, I wish I could do I could walk through the US, you know. But through through a party like Utah, it's just like, yo is trophy hunt giant. Arizona, they hunt in huge groups of people because there's no tags. And when someone draws a tag, 50 of them have to go.

And I just do a country walks or a state by state walkthrough. Similarly, we could do a country by country walkthrough of what actually goes on in Europe. And it would be like very educational for me because I might not be so tempted to say what goes on in this little place. I went one time and extend it across the continent. All right.

I will look for a single person.

I actually have expert, an expert who might be able to speak to that because I'll do it right now in Europe, by which I mean portions of England, actually, which which is not part of the European Union. Yeah, exactly. In England. Formerly of Europe. Yeah.

They have a thing called landing mat.

If you hear this, they like to fish carp. Yeah. Yeah. They got carp names on them. Huh.

And the carp have names like like you know, it wouldn't be like old Bessie, that's what we'd call it.

They would call it, you know, Ferguson, Walterboro, Ferguson, Ferguson, the cart.

Ferguson the eighth. They'll have a and then a lot of people will catch them in the I'll be weighing them and it'll be like the biggest cart was one day someone called Old Bessie and she was like, ah, Ferguson the 8th. And he was an hour more than when some other dude caught them. And so they'll be like, when I caught Ferguson, he was thirty one pounds, three ounces.

And that'll be like the record. And they have a land. These guys use the landing mat.

You when you're fishing you put out like a little rubber, like a little rubber ramp. Out that goes from the beach down into the water, so you catch Furguson the eighth. You you you basically pull him ashore.

It's like the red carpet on a landing mat and do your what are you going to do to him? Not eat them. And then you and then you slide him back down into the pond.

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Make sure you're ready for the season and get yours there. Benchmade Dotcom. That's BNC Madie Dotcom. Did you know that catch and release is illegal in Germany? Oh, really? Huh? Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting, I fished over there a couple of years ago and there were fish in a trout stream and it's like a highly managed trout stream. And the guy we're we're we are going with, you know, kind of media connection was was like and, you know, we got all we had to go to the post office and get our fishing license, and we had to be at the fly shop to get it to, you know, to reserve the beat for the day.

And when we're all done with everything, he's like, well, here's here's your license and here's your fish tag. And it was like it was like an interlocking almost like what you'd put on a like a deer in Alaska. Got plastic, though. And we're like, oh, that's that's fine. We're we're traveling. You know, we're going to kill a fish. Like, what the hell do we do with it? He's like. Catch and release is actually not legal in Germany, the Green Party passed that sometime in the 90s.

They're like, well, you know, fishing is one thing, fishing is OK if you're providing food for yourself. But it's animal cruelty to fish just for just for shits and giggles. So he's like, you have to have this tag with you.

You catch it early, you're not allowed to catch and release. But if you catch a fish and take the hook out and then it happens to get away from you, then slipped. That's that's all right. And by that, I mean, it was kind of like a wink, wink, nudge, nudge kind of thing.

He's like we like basically said we never kill fish, but it's illegal not to get butterfingers. Yeah, but apparently there was a major prosecution about it, like a few years before that.

There are some guy who's like a big pich angler and there's some great big fish in in Germany. And he had a video on YouTube of him catching a big female pike and reviving it and releasing it. And he actually was prosecuted. No, for that for not killing that fish, which is just you know, it's just so, so interesting how the how how how far apart the cultures are so rich and varied continent.

Yeah. If in this episode I'm talking about, there'd be a part where this individual would be like, and then you got Germany.

OK, Carrie, let one go, I'll do some research. I was going to ask you guys, I would tell you I would go to Google and type in something like Europeans with a pan continental interest in the diverse hunting and fishing regulations of the continent.

I will use that research and then see what what pops up.

OK, this guy really far removed from I was wondering, like how Whiskey Myers music ends up with having European fans.

Can I say one more thing, though, real quick? I'm dying to know the answer that. Can you just hold that?

I was with my kids yesterday.

You know, they're like at home all day because of the kids, because the Kotva, they haven't gone to school. So they get a little cooped up. And I took them out to check on some muskrat downs we were had heard about. And they find a dead brown trout. A big brown, like a twenty four inch brown stone dead kind of run. They insist it's fresh. I'm across I'm in my waders and I'm across the creek from them and they're hooting and hollering about this fish, they're going to bring it home and shoulder mom and eat it.

And I was like, I wonder. I was explaining to them that, you know. Brown's coming up, Sporn and everything, and. I was like, I wonder if he's got if he had gotten a hook in or something and that's what caused his demise and they're like they report that, yes, he has a hook stuck in his throat. And I said, really? And they're like, yes, it's a silver hook. I go and look at the fish, there is no hook in its throat.

We have a big conversation about there's just like not a hook in its throat, but I don't understand. That night, he's telling the story to Cal, there's a hook in his throat, just like alternate reality.

Certain things to get said in the political sphere made a lot more sense to me after that.

It's just like in his head there is a hook and that fish's throat and no absence of a hook is going to make him think otherwise.

Oh, you want me to make that make sense? It was European brown great brown cheddar from your very good brown sugar from your. Wow. If you wonder why I brought that up, ask your question.

Like, how does Whiskey Myers develop fans in Europe? Is there like a whole group that likes that sort of music from America?

Yeah, they like American music.

Most part of them are really like like kind of the classic rock sound or the southern rock sound.

It's it's kind of big over there right now. And so I guess the Internet.

Well, do they do they view the seven hundred and fifty million people of Judaea?

OK, if I like a band, I might like them for years and then one day be like, oh shit, I don't know, they're from wherever. Mm hmm. And it's a change. OK, like I like some stuff, I like an album by M 83, I didn't know they were French or the guy was from France. Then later I'm like, oh, I don't know the guys in France now. You don't like them? No.

Well, I'm just saying, does it even matter if you have fans in Europe?

Are they like, you know, I like music and then there's some American music I like or just like, you know, I mean, like, does it even like a thing? I think it's a thing like they recognize I like music from the southern United States. Yeah, I think so.

At least a big part of our fan base up there.

They're looking for that. They like that like the job, not only America, but that part of America. Like I like rock from southern France.

It just isn't something I would ever there's one of our distributors over there that explained it to me one day. It was just him and I. And he was like, he's like, you know, he said over here, he said, they don't have A. S he said they're they're like infatuated with the way you talk and and how it comes out and all that. So it's really cool.

You know, they don't have that over there. They don't have a budget. Yeah. You know, the way we talk and stuff just shakes them up.

Did you guys growing up, did you grow up hating Northern's? No. No. Can you can you goof on how we talked? Yeah. Oh yeah. I'd love to hear it. I'm not a goof on how you guys can do.

Oh, come on. Come on. You want to Steve impression. Is that what you. No, no, no, no, no. OK, when I was growing up, if we want to talk about bad about a dude from the south, we had a way we would do it. Right. Right.

So ours would just be like, oh, or they like your O's are different. Yeah, yeah. We had a guy there and he's like, oh yeah, it's a big box. Yeah.

I'm like, oh that sounds like that's always I told you know, if I tell him like how they sound like but I don't know anybody that sounds like that. But do for us when you were a little kid and you were shit talking Yankees do for us how they would like I could be like let's say I was, I was, I'd be like, oh shit, I can't do it now, man.

It's hard when you think about me. Do do ghufron on northerners don't you. Don't don't don't don't act like you don't goof off. Okay, here's a good example.

We had a bus driver, those from Wisconsin, and he had a real thick accent and he drank a lot of Mountain Dew.

I don't know why, but so that's a northern drink. Every time we were going to Buska, he'd be like he would call me and I would answer the phone. I say hello. Hey, Chris, you think you could drop by the store and grab me a cup of Mountain Dews, bro?

And I'm like, so that's what we sound like. Yeah. And the fact that he wanted me to get his mountain. So I'm like, why can't you do it?

Or like, it was cold. You'll catch some walleye. Yes, mauli.

See when we're talking about southerners, one of our favorite my favorite stories, one of Johnny's stories, I kind of stole his stories.

So Johnny's turkey somewhere in the south, or somehow he's doing a story hunt somewhere and a guy pulls up, rolls his window down, out a like a cascade of chew spit and it says, oh, here you turkeys gobble.

And that's us. That's us. Symbolize blood.

Not far enough. Yeah, man sucks.

Here's what's good for you. A couple more like goof on northerners from hope that those kind of like what's the impression.

Right. I haven't got their day. You sell me. Oh yeah. Like he says he's kind of like a northerner.

He's got a pretentious southern heart.

A little bit more homey. Friendly.

Yeah. I mean I don't, I don't know. I mean, honestly, we didn't really know about northerners. You know, it's the left, our county and. Oh, we haven't gotten into that one real quick.

So you grew up on a fishing. Yeah. How did your parents listen to music? Yeah, but how did it ever occur to you to, like, play some music?

So that was the first damn question was so my grandfather on my mom's side, he was kind of wild, you know, he wasn't around like didn't seem a lot, you know, because he was what if she's out there getting kind of like the biker and the, you know, just a little bit edgy, you know, so you wouldn't see him go away for long?

Spells the time. Yeah, kind of like that.

And I don't know that I understand that kind of. But he kind of played the guitar a little bit, you know, or he had a guitar. And I guess one time I told him when I was younger, like, you know, that's cool.

I would learn I'd love to learn how to do that.

And then years later, when I was about sixteen, he left the guitar at, like, my grandparents house.

Like you just showed up and left there.

I thought he was your grandparent. We also would have been her mom, so he would have been my mom's dad, which way they were divorced, you know. So but he left this. Sorry.

No, I'm not saying you're being complicated. I'm yeah. OK. Your mother's father. Yes, but he was divorced from your grandmother and grandfather. Were divorced. Yes, I understand. So he just kind of came by. I don't even know if he even talked why you get that? Oh, I don't know. That's right. Before I was born because he's wild, you know, but he just years later, for some reason, he he left that guitar on like their porch or something.

And I don't know if he told them or I can't like this is for you.

Yep. So he remembered that time. Yeah. Yeah. And so I picked it up and kind of started learning. So he did come over and show you how to use it.

He just left. No, it was just left for me. Yeah.

And I went and got it and I started learning how to do little chords and things like that.

And then John Jeffers, our guitar player, I took it over there one day and I don't know if he knew, but like his his dad played between ages 18, 16, 17.

And I took it over there. And his dad actually, like, knew how to play guitar and stuff.

And I don't know, even if we knew that they like evidently his dad was kind of always played music and his mom, you know, his mother had been in a band, you know, and he he probably knew that. But I didn't, you know, when they were younger.

And then his dad showed us how to play guitar when we were like 16 or 17, like like showed you how as and you started really focusing or he's like basically works like this. A little above, probably, but yeah, just shown us like, hey, this is like this, and he was playing and just taught us some stuff and then it just kind of grew from there, really.

But that's that's how I got into music because my grandpa left a guitar.

You still have it. It got stolen. What? Well, guitars get stolen a lot, so I don't have that anymore where to get stolen from. So I had it was in my mind. We had a Suburban that we toured in at that time. How long is this year's OK, when we first started and seven or eight.

Yeah. Yeah. So I'd left it in there and went inside the house and the window was messed up on the suburban. It would always fall. You remember that.

It wouldn't end like it went back inside the house and our dog died a dog that day or something. So I went was like messing with the dog end up having to bury it stuff. And I went back outside and somebody stole the guitar.

While you're in burying the dead dog. Yeah, my daughter's fish died last night. Yeah.

And that's how that happened. And it was gone. So the window was just like it would always fall down. I don't know if somebody said it was in a neighborhood at that time.

I lived in Tyler, slipped out of the track. And yeah, it was around the time there, they were still in a lot of stuff. So somebody was just walking by and maybe seen it and just I just left it in. There wasn't even very long day. And they they had stole that guitar. I never found it.

Guitar never found it. We looked we looked around in pawn shops and everything like that.

And so and it was one of those things where I was like taking stuff in and then, you know, ended up having to deal with that.

And I was like, how should I get my stuff? I'll call your grandfather. It was gone.

What kind of guitar would it look like? What's the matter? It was just it would be any listener from time to time.

Yeah, it was just an old tack.

Amaney guitar. And I had I did have a cigarette burn on it. All right. I guess would be from him.

So it did have a cigarette burn on it, but it didn't have any unique features other than that.

It was just, you know, so depressing.

Yeah, but that's a true story, man. So for any listeners out there, that's how you look at what color wasn't just the regular. I don't even know what color.

Just like all these classic guitar pick pignata had a cigarette burn under, I believe, under the pit guard, you know, like where your fingers would sit if you were holding you. Man, we should do like a national effort to get you serious.

That was like contact me either if you find a guitar player here and alarming theft story.

We reported on this, my brother and his body were fishing. In Alaska, and they got there, they had some engine problems and they got their boat flipped and swamped up against the log when the water's real high and they hung a buoy off it and. The rain kept coming and they were waiting for the water to get down so they could go back and retrieve their boat. And they just went back to get it is gone. Only thing left is to tipo sunk in the bank where someone had rigged up some leverage points to jack it out of their stole the frickin boat with you.

Sure. That person thought of it as theft, though, and they weren't like they might have thought they might have thought it was a salvage job.

They sure, sure didn't call the police and say we found a boat. If you found a boat sunk against the law with a boogie tied to it and you had to go get some tea poles and sink them in and come along and off there, you don't you wouldn't get a slight feeling like I wonder whose boat this is.

You're getting a reward in that case.

On my brother's road, so he's used live down, he used to live by this little. It's kind of weird story, never mind, I'll tell you a drug car theft story. This is a long story. Without getting into too many details, my brother's body gets his truck stolen. And he's suspicious of a little meth house down the road, he's suspicious of the inhabitants of a little meth house down the road. But he does a police report and then she gets a call from the cops.

His truck's been abandoned a couple hours away at a gas station. And the cop says, oddly, they abandoned your truck and stole the gas station attendants car. He says, why do they drive, they drive or whatever the hell it was?

He goes and looks out his window is like, yup, it's parked Scooby dude, that thing, man. It's far down the road at the house of the people I suspected of stealing my truck.

Did did they upgrade or was it insulting like that?

They don't remember the details, but it was just some sly, some sly, you know, burglary. Not as sly as they thought.

So what happens next? You guys are screwed because you can't tour or make money doing everything. Are you like. Like what happens now? How do you how do you be an independent rock band in the time of coping? Well, we can be that because we are independent and we get royalties.

We own our masters, you know, so we so used to it. And I think we would have. Yeah. A lot harder time if we weren't independent.

All right. Yeah, we're going to hopefully start up next year. We stopped in like February when everything, you know, everything started closing down. They started canceling shows and then we were going to go back on the road in like July.

Everything was supposed to kick back up in July and all that.

And they had, you know, shows still booked, you know, throughout the year. And we would get close to three weeks out and they cancel.

And it just kept happening, kept happening, kept happening every time we had to cancel at the last minute and I was like, this is stupid, like cancel the rest of the year.

We'll get we'll get back at it next year. Where are you going to move? You know, and so we just moved everything from this year to the next year. Yeah. Because it was just it was obnoxious being like, oh, you got to come back to work, you know, telling people they had to come back to work at certain times and and things like that. And then it canceled. And then you're telling the fans, we're going to be here.

They bought tickets, you cancel.

And so it was just one of those things where it's like and I don't want to deal with like 25 percent capacity and all that.

It's like, sure, let's just wait a couple months and maybe we can go back at it full steam and have good shows where you can rock and everything and you're not sitting out with mask on, spread out at your table. And it was just like, why not?

We've been on the road nonstop for 12, 13 years. I think, you know, we can take a few months off.

Have you been enjoying the time off? Yeah, have been probably doing more more hunt and fish. The normal.

Yeah. I have I've been fishing a lot, and then, yeah, I just been started hunting, you know, hunting season just opened a couple of weeks ago.

Or you fish in the summer. Yeah, well, I don't fish a lot in, like August because it's just it's miserable. Too hot down there. Yeah, I think so. And then the fish start kind of suspending and doing some different thing. They're just kind of funky, you know, that August and September kind of the transition in there. It's just a little bit funky. And I needed to, like, start writing again and working on the new album.

But when both season rolled around a bit, not in a lot.

So tell people because they can't come see you right now. Tell people like what, like what what works for you best for people to want to go explore your music? You know, I tell people outscoring Spotify, man, yes, Apple Music website, just all social media, tell people your website.

Yeah, Wisky, Match.com, just really what's what's ever convenient for them. They want to buy a record. They got a record player buy record. They want to stream it. Do that.

You know, you guys get your ducks cleaned yesterday. Yeah, we did. Would you like to have a place like that place? Yeah, they had it going on, man, I've never hosed down a room before. That was yeah, that's just just set up for four cleaning ducts. What's going on?

Yeah, he's got a he's got pretty special. Plays a lot of love and attention went into, yeah, just a formality for making a mistake and making duck country.

Yeah, we've seen I mean, how many deer and pheasant and everything else did we see just besides the I don't even try to explain how many ducks were saying. And I was like, I have no idea. Sam makes it hard to get up at 3:00 in the morning, go and put your boat in and drive up, get to fight with some other dork hunters and get to Derksen.

And, yeah, this was like that was so funny in the morning, too, that we were all set up in that blind all get our dicks out all our all our stuff nicely stashed. And then we have the side by side. Roll up.

You're in the wrong place and get in with me. We're going to the other one. We're all already have limits. And we're like what we.

We were kicking. It kills it. We're doing good. Yeah, me too. I'm like, yeah, we're we're talking a couple in here. We're getting some okay. Shots. We've got a couple of ducks in the line. He's like, oh, they already got like twenty one birds. Yeah.

I was like oh I think we're doing fine man. I'm having a good time. We're seeing a lot of, a lot of birds and he's like, oh no, y'all need to move on over there.

We got it. Yeah. Real quick. It was they wanted to be right there.

Was there your first was that your first green. That was my third duck, yeah. Yeah. I went on my first duck hunt. I actually know why I went on a duck hunt with some of y'all.

Yeah, I knew you went to know that you got first my first actual duck. I went out with them.

Hanzi did you let you one off the water? Did you have you only done trying to wing shoot them?

Well, we were I mean, I loved it. I was we were in the muck. So we we canoed in our canoed out and set up a bunch of decoys and we were hiding, you know, underneath the reeds. And so they were there were some.

God, I had missed a bunch and then we were all taking a break and eating and then a couple were kind of flying high, maybe I should have taken the married Adam.

I just like I didn't even tell anyone I was going to take the shot.

I probably should have, like everyone ate beef jerky in their mouths and they were chatting. And I just saw Bird come from left to right and I just shot it and it went down.

What was a dancer know it was? What are you looking at? You got it written down?

No, I'm thinking about I'm staring into space and trying to get to my mom's, my mind's eye, the black feathers with kind of the white outline pigeon. That's the pigeon, right? Yeah.

So I was down there a couple of days before she was there getting a lot of pigeon. Yeah. So and then my second one was, was also witch and it was like come in to land. Oh it was, it was pretty low is coming to land among the decoys and it was almost like it was, I mean it's just a couple of feet off the surface of the water when I got it was a pretty easy shot.

But I just you know, it's kind of like I felt like that duck was landing in and about to be like, Hey, Bob, hey, Joe, what's up?

And then they're like mannequins not saying it.

Oh, I was always worried about the interaction with a dog where the spread that to me is like these people are all dead. Yeah. Yeah. Is like because they are kind of like a barrier. They land and they start to get like, oh that right.

Yeah. Yeah. So those are those are my first to you the other day, like I don't know, something just a little and, and then the lights go out.

But I guess yesterday was my, it was my third duck. I just, I missed a shit ton and, and Chris had to Chris finished off like a handful of my words for me, but there was one that was just a clean shot.

How are you going to cook up like the ducks you got yesterday? Yeah. Do you have any, like from your mother? Do you have any Chinese influenced duck recipes that you try or do you just cook like whatever?

Yeah, my mom was not my mom did like a certain number of things.

Well, never like Peking Duck that that's a couple day effort. But I do have like an old school Chinese cooking cookbook.

You can try something like this. I may.

Do you I think that should be like Chinese now game and.

Yeah, I mean, I have a friend, I have a friend in town, a dear friend in town, Linda, who is a chef from Shanghai. And I was going to ask her to maybe help me out with it with a thing.

But yeah, maybe that's maybe that's what I want. I have to do at least one of my books. I don't know if these have enough fat on them. I haven't.

Yeah, they're not like they get a little bit later. Yeah. But when you say your mom did some things well, do you mean that cooking wasn't one of them or she did some dishes.

Well yeah I know some, some dishes. She did some well but did not do Peking Duck. Yeah.

No I don't, I don't really know how many people do that at home.

That's kind of like you go to Chinatown and you buy them.

What's that. What's that Chinese preparation for dog that you see in Chinatown, in New York, where they have their glazed?

Yeah, that's the Peking duck. Well, that is where they're hanging up glazed. Sure. Yeah, I know that. That's the you know, and I used to buy those things.

It kind of cut them up with a cleaver. Yep. Yep, exactly. It's like you have all these ducks hanging in the window.

Shiny. They're crispy. Oh my gosh. That's good, man.

And then you stand in line and it's like the guy with a frickin huge ass cleaver, just like chop chop, chop, chop, chop, chop, chop, chop.

And then it's just like they pile all this greasy, just delicious duck with sauce.

And like, there's some slight, I would say like different spices. Some some folks might do more of like a five spice and they're, you know, slight variations. But I think I think we need to think about a recipe like that. Yeah. Holy shit. Is that good, man?

Daisy, that was like a favorite thing to do when to go, you know, in New York.

Go find those ducks.

Yeah, totally. Yeah. When you guys were playing in New York, did you did you do some Peking duck in Chinatown is not like a wild man.

Yeah. No, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I want to do. Wahhab This restaurant called Wahhabis in Manhattan. That's one of the old time. Very awesome. If you ever there. Get some duck there.

So this could be Chris. With no children and you being the tour manager times getting heart. Oh, yeah, but yeah, but like Cody said, I mean, we've been enjoying it and hunt and fish and it's been great. I mean, yeah it is is like home. That's a tour manager.

You have to manage. I'm probably healthier than when we're on the road. Well, they toured all the way up here. We've been hanging out in their bus every day when I picked them up. That's good. Schoolhouse Buster.

Man Steve, Steve asked Corinne about shooting the duck off the water before and, you know, referring to like northerners making fun of southerners and Southerners making fun of northerners. I'm from South Dakota. We would refer to that. Or like shooting a dove off a power line is Arkansas or something?

Well, it's because the old Arkansas bill is that way. You guys, that's not that's from the old market, 100 days.

That's not like a goofing off in the south, like the punt guns, but like what you guys would you guys call? What would you refer to? That is I would be so tickled.

You said that that's Arkansas. I like that you guys all know about calling it Arkansas in now or anything like that.

Either that's Michigander incessant loosing where I'm from.

Yeah, but I do. Well, we'll report back on this etymology, but I understand from my father it has something to do. It's like a reference to a type of rig used by market hunters.

It's not like, you know, those idiots down in Arkansas. That's not fair. I would prefer like these guys. We still say Arkansas. Yeah, I know, but I would prefer that they call it like, oh, that's that's Sacconi in something like someone from Wisconsin would do that.

I'm calling Arkansas on it. I got a lot of friends in Arkansas, so they call Arkansas. And in Arkansas we call them Clay Nuchal Newcome. You know what? I can message them right now.

Maybe we'll have an answer by the end of the podcast because I'm wrapping it up. I got to come back on Spense and report back after you talk to that dude who got all the Oakshott place.

All right, Wisky, find a man whiskey dot com. That's a good you are all for you guys.

Yeah.

You are not confusing Spotify and go find you. Yeah. Spotify. You got your own playlist under. Yep. Each all in the wrong person.

I don't savvy but we got we got an affirmative. Yeah. Affirmative from the other Chris.

I think we got everything and. All right guys, thanks so much for coming on. It was fun hanging out. She probably quit chewing that tobacco. Yeah. It might be in the next laugh.

Well yeah, because if you lip gets a hole right through it, you're going to sound way different.

Yeah, I might whistle more when I say here. Become one of them professional whistler. Hi guys. Thank you very much. Take care.

Hasseltine.