With a pandemic and a revolution happening at the same time, we get to choose what kind of society we want to rebuild and who we want to be together. I'm Baratunde Thurston, author, activist and comedian, and I've got a new podcast, How to Citizen with Baratunde. Our democratic experiment is at a tipping point, but which way we tip is up to us. I Heart Radio is number one for podcast, but don't take our word for it.

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Ghosts is a true crime podcast that investigates the search for the person responsible for the abductions of four missing girls in neighboring New England towns for more than 50 years. Each case as remain unsolved. Jesus, Mary and Josephine. I hope that's brave for many of you know what I think it is. Paper Ghosts premieres September 9th. Listen on the IHA radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to the Pickton Massacre, a production of I Heart Radio and Katie Studios. It's been one year since eight members of the rodent family were found murdered in Pike County. Now surviving members of the family have released a plea for information. A year after eight members of the rodent family were ruthlessly gunned down in their homes, Ohio authorities are on a relentless search for the killers.

Over 800 tips have been called in to police. A commitment to the people of my county that day. We're not leaving until we solve this.

Many different facets of law enforcement collaborated to crack the case, the people that carried it out. We're trying to do everything they could to make sure that they didn't get caught.

Law enforcement officials began tracking down a series of leads that point them to another group of potential suspects, the Wagners, the wagon shop and local Wal-Mart store, ammunition magazines and materials to build brass catchers.

According to the case indictment, the Wagners began conducting what seems to be almost like reconnaissance on the rodents.

What do you mean a camera? Was there connected to something? I still to this day wonder why she mentioned that and why that conversation wasn't allowed to go any further.

The revelations leave those closest to the family questioning their innocence.

I know he was upset, but was he upset because she had been murdered or was he upset because he'd done it? This is the Python massacre. Episode six, The Investigation. In this episode, we're going to dive into law enforcement's investigation into the rodent murders, how the Wagners allegedly pulled off this gruesome massacre and why. I'm Courtney Armstrong and I work at Katie's studios with Stephanie Lydecker and Jeff Shane. We produced a documentary about the case for NBC Universal's Oxygen Network in 2019 and have been following the evolution of the investigation since then to understand the crime and the possible motivation of the family that may have committed it.

We want to look at the months leading up to the murders and authorities movements after by any objective standard. It was a long, arduous investigation spanning two full years. During that time, many different facets of law enforcement. The FBI, the DEA, the Pike County Sheriff's Office and the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigation all collaborated to crack the case. Police received over 1100 tips. They conducted over 500 interviews, tested about 700 pieces of evidence, served close to two hundred search warrants, subpoenas and other things.

So this was something that was huge.

That's Mike Allen, a defense attorney, former Ohio county prosecutor and legal analyst for Cincinnati news station Fox 19.

The attorney general, DeWine at the time said it was a pretty sophisticated operation and the people that that carried it out were trying to do everything they could to make sure that they didn't get caught.

Attorney General DeWine and Sheriff Rader, they both said that the investigation was going to be a long one and a lengthy process. And, boy, it sure has played out that way.

But how exactly did investigators circle in on the Wagners as suspects and eventually compile enough evidence to make arrests in previous episodes?

We discussed some of the conflicts between the Wagners and the Rodin's in 2016. There was a custody battle between Jake Wagner and Hannah Rowden and a physical altercation between Billy Wagner and Chris Rowden senior. It seemed like the relationship between the two families was reaching a fever pitch in the months leading up to the murders. But these two families didn't always have such ill will towards one another. Here's journalist Jeff Winkler.

I think early on, people wanted to paint the sort of feud between the rodents and Wagner's as something like Hatfields and McCoys because it was sort of the hills of Appalachia backwoods and I think but it really wasn't like it.

Right.

Like people like to say the Hatfields and McCoys. But I think they were probably closer and friendlier than that version of it, right? Yeah. I mean, the fact that they were family split their time between the two houses, the fact that, you know, the actors had been in the area for a long time as well, just as the roads had. It's just you had two families who were intertwined by both blood and work. We got some more intimate observations from Doré, she's Billy Wagner's cousin and Frederico Wagner's niece, Turei spoke to Jeff about how she saw the relationship between her family and the rodent's.

Do you know anything about Billy and Chris Rowden? Senior My aunt said that they were very good friends. And of course, he was the grandfather of Sophia and so was Billy. Billy is Sophia's grandfather. I mean, it's like they're in-laws. They're related. I mean, there are two grandfathers of the same little girl. She's adorable that Angela and Dina got along in the same way. You know, it looked to me like they were clearly getting along and she never said anything bad about the road and she never spoke.

One negative thing about it, just about the children, about, you know, they went fishing and they were all over it, Fredricka.

Is that, you know, small talk, like normal talk you have with another mom about raising kids, right? Exactly. And it's just like that's all it is, is just family talk. We, of course, know that Hannah and Jake Wagner had an intense relationship, but through the ups and downs, most would say they were in love and their relationship brought the two families together. Here's producer Stephanie. When we started doing our research, I personally became a bit obsessed with better understanding the intersection between these two families and really struggle with the motivation.

What could possibly cause one family, the Wagners, to allegedly murder eight people that they knew so well? They knew them intimately. In fact, we came across a photograph taken in 2012 at George Wagner, the eldest son's wedding, and the Rodin's. And the Wagners are both in this photo, seemingly so happy. The only person not there, as Dana wrote in and she said, to maybe be taking the photo because she later posted it on her MySpace page.

But it's mind blowing. The people in the photo do not look like killers posing with their would be victims. But sure enough, in four years, the majority of the people in this picture would be dead and the others would be standing trial for their deaths.

Throughout this series, we've been talking to a relative of the Wagners who's chosen to remain anonymous. She spoke to Jeff about her family's reaction in the wake of the Rodin murders.

What was the feeling like in the family after that happened? Angela was upset because it was the mother of her granddaughter. She was just really sad, you know, that that had happened. I talked to Jake. I was telling it like, I am so sorry. You know, like if there's anything I can do, please tell me. And Angela, she did ask me at one point, probably about a month after the murders that happened, if I come down and pick up the object and take Sophia to a friend's house.

So I did. And in that time, you know, Jacob Zuma, the father, and he was an absolute wreck. And of course, I did not know I didn't know how to react. I didn't know what to ask him. I didn't know what to say. I was kind of just letting him have his moment. And he was absolutely devastated. I mean, he couldn't talk. He couldn't breathe. He was having a panic attack in my car.

And I'm like, oh, my gosh, you know, like, I don't know what to say. So, of course, when I find out that they were the ones who done, I keep thinking back to that time and I'm like, oh, my God, I know he was upset, but was he upset for, you know, for you, like. Was he upset because she had been murdered or was he upset because, you know, he'd done it and he knew?

I don't know. It was just an awful, eerie feeling. It really, truly was.

Pike County Massacre. It's the title of what has happened out here, the tragedy that we've been covering. The victims ranged in age from 16 to 44. Each were shot anywhere from one to nine times. It's just a grisly scene and a grisly situation.

Let's rewind to summer 2014, Hannah and Jake's daughter Sofia is eight months old. Here's producer Stephanie. This is why this case is so complicated, because just when I think the Wagners could be innocent, I read something like this around this time, according to the case indictment, the Wagners began conducting what seems to almost be like reconnaissance on the road and family over the course of the next two years. They allegedly began hacking into the Rodin's personal computers, their phones, even their social media accounts.

They even reportedly use surveillance cameras to spy on the roads. But why would they do that? Especially according to most accounts, Jake and Hannah were very much still dating and very much in love at this time.

So why would they be spying? Was Angela Wagner the mom, obsessed with her youngest son, Jake Wagner's relationship with Hannah Rowden, where the dad's Chris wrote in, or Billy Wagner senior embroiled in something big, where the Wagner is simply trying to get familiar with the family patterns and better understand the road and property? Why would they possibly be spying?

Here's investigative reporter Jody Barr, he's talking about a conversation he had with Kendra Rowden, the daughter of one of the victims, Kenneth Rowden, Kendra wrote, brought up with me in our discussions.

She mentioned a few times that there were cameras set up around Kristina's home.

So Kendra Rowden actually saw cameras on the property that now it seems as if allegedly the Wagners had put there. Yeah, she told me that a Christian was home, that there was a camera on that property. And she said it was in sort of not in the wooded area, but sort of the field looked like it hadn't been mowed, but it was right near the garage. Yourself. And, of course, naturally, you start questioning her about the cameras and, you know.

What do you mean a camera? Was there was it connected to something? Did you you look did you to try to investigate? It was a very strange encounter. Know when she mentioned that and in the conversation with him further? Well, she was probably scared, right? Possibly. But she's talking to a reporter. That was always something that I've wondered about because you never got an answer to. And it was so strange. And I still to this day, wonder why she mentioned that and why that conversation wasn't allowed to go any further.

Yeah, but I find Salt Lake the most screwed up thing about it is at that time in the summer of 2014 is when Jake Wagner and Hannah Roden were like hot and heavy and planning a wedding.

And to know that he was then also sort of maybe planning her murder at the same time or starting to at least spy on her in some way. It's like just very dark.

There's a lot of interest, obviously, still in this case. And, you know, with every criminal prosecution in the state, they have their version of facts and the defense will have its version of facts.

But if this turns out to be true, man, what a story. What a terribly tragic ending to these lies, to everything that was going on. If we are to believe what the prosecution has alleged, you know, this paints a very dark picture.

We're going to take a quick break here. We'll be back in a moment. Get Down to Cape Town is a podcast about the explosion of Korean culture all over the world and why it's here to stay. I'm your host, Esther Choi, founder and chief of several restaurants in New York City. And I truly believe that food is the ultimate gateway to getting to know a culture. And that's how it all started for me. I've been using my passion for cooking to cultivate a deeper understanding into my culture.

And now I can proudly say that I am an ambassador of Korean food and culture. And by using food as an entry point, we dig in deeper to the rich and fascinating culture of Korea, tune into unfiltered conversations with trailblazers and tastemakers.

This show will explore the unique facets of the Korean cultural phenomenon the Kogi Food Truck Movement with Roy Choi. How about how to do the 10 step Korean skincare routine with Chala Cho talking rap, battling as the only Korean kid in the room with yes, you guessed it, dumfounded. We talk to the people at the heart of it all who represent and shape this global movement. Real talk with real people. Listen to get down in Cape Town on the I Heart radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you listen to your podcasts.

Powerful and ancient, they exist right alongside us in their own dimensions, their own tribes and their own kingdoms, some say they are the eternal mortal enemy of mankind. Others say they're so similar to us that we can befriend them like us. They're born and they die. They fall in love and have children they hate and they destroy. But in truth, they are nothing like us. Invisible, but as real as a smokeless flame that they're created out of, they are the hidden gem brought to you by I heart radio and Aramaic is grim and mild and written and narrated by me, Rabia Chaudry.

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Join me to find out why all the episodes of The Hidden Gem on Apple podcast, the I Heart radio app, or wherever you get your podcasts. It seems that the Wagners became obsessed with getting sole custody of Sofia after Jake and Hannah broke up. But how exactly did they think they would gain control? As laid out in the indictment, the Wagners began methodically plotting a scheme that would take several months to actually carry out. Here again is Jodi Barr.

So when you read these indictments, you know, they were talking about the waggers movements even months before these murders happened and that the investigators believe that they were planning this for quite some time before that. The indictment says that detectives believe that planning began January one of 2016. The murders happened in April of 2016. So you've got four months of planning that's alleged to have happened here for months to plan this out. I mean, that's every day for four months.

That's a full time job.

So what exactly went into the planning in previous episodes? We talked about how in April 2016, the Wagners presented Hannah Rowden with custody documents. But what Hannah didn't know then and what police later uncovered is that the supposedly legal documents were fake and that Angela Wagner's mother, Rita Jo Newcome, was allegedly at the center of the deception. I spoke to Mike Allen about it. So Rita Jo Newcome, Angela's mom, she faces three counts of forgery, a kind of perjury, and she's a notary.

Can you speak to like what power does a notary have or how does that come into play? In Ohio?

Notaries don't have a lot of power. They are allowed, obviously, to notarized signatures. You know, they have to make sure that the oath is administered properly when they are notarizing something. They're kind of hard to come by here in Ohio. But I'm certain that because of this, she'll probably lose that notary's license if she hasn't already moving forward a bit in time.

Prosecutors ultimately claimed that Rita lied about the authenticity of these documents to a grand jury. But in an unexpected twist, Newcome agreed to a plea deal with the prosecution. She pled guilty to a misdemeanor charge of obstructing official business in exchange for felony charges of forgery and perjury were dismissed. Here's Newcome speaking in court.

I just feel that it's not a good credit to think long, and I've been a little bit more. It's difficult to hear her because of the recording, but she says, I just feel that it's not a good Christian thing to lie and I couldn't live with it no more. Jody Barr thinks there could be ulterior motives to Newcomb's deal.

The prosecutor said in court, though, that a handwriting expert concluded that Rita Newcomb did not sign the documents herself. Newcome admitted to falsely telling a grand jury and investigators that she did so only because her daughter, Angela Wagner, who was among those charged with the killings, told her to do so. I mean, there were some heavy charges dismissed. You know, we're investigators trying to squeeze the grandmothers to get some information out of them.

Mike Allen seems to think so.

Now, there's a lot of speculation. And in the normal case, the first thing you'd think of is, OK, you know, that gave her a reduced charge in return for cooperation. And I would not be surprised if that's not the case. But again, we won't know until we get closer to trial.

Can you be compelled to testify for the prosecution here?

I mean, if they receive a subpoena, unless there's some kind of legal reason why, you know, they couldn't. Yeah, I mean, the prosecutor could issue the subpoena. If there's testimony, the prosecutor would probably ask the court designate that person as a hostile witness and then they can use leading questions. According to court records, the documents appointed a guardian for Jake and Hannah's daughter in the event of their deaths when police later searched the Wagner home.

This document was found in a box belonging to Angela Wagner labeled Important Stuff. I asked Mike Allen about the legal ramifications of these forged documents. How does it appear that these documents were forged on April 3rd? It was 19 days before the murders.

I'll tell you what, I've been doing this for a long time and I've never seen anything like this. It's strong evidence for the prosecutor. The defense attorney has to find a way to explain that away, which is probably next to impossible. But, yeah, it's that strong evidence from a prosecutor's perspective. As we've discussed before, it was around this time that Chris Rowden, senior and Billy Wagner got into a fight as well. Here's Mike Allen recapping that confrontation back in mid April 2016.

Supposedly, there was a fight between Chris Senior and Billy Wagner. Nobody seems to know what the fight was about or what caused it.

Things were obviously becoming strained between the two families. But the beginning of April also brought a lot of joy for the rodent family. That month, Hannah celebrated her 19th birthday.

Here's Rowden family friend Stefan. It was a happy occasion. You know, it was family get together and lots of fun know because they were fine. They were always having, you know, get togethers, birthday parties, anything like that. They were a great family unit. But as the Rowden family was celebrating, the Wagners allegedly were busy planning their murders.

The Wagners already had a cashier firearms, but around this time, they began making their own silencers. If the Wagners did do it, it seems likely that these would have been used on the night of the murders. The family also bought ammunition, a magazine clip, a bug detector and materials to build brass catcher's Jodi Bar filled us in on what some of this equipment is used for.

Breast cancer is a bag that hooks on the side of a firearm. It will catch spent cartridges. So every time you pull the trigger, a cartridge is injected. And if you were really interested in not leaving anything behind as far as ballistic evidence, this sounds like a great story. This bag will collect the shell casings, so there's no evidence left behind the bug detector. Apparently, that helps someone find listening devices that sometimes create white noise to muffle sounds or discussion.

The indictment also includes a reference to a specific pair of shoes that the family purchased from Wal-Mart.

But why would they need a particular pair of shoes to pull off a murder? Here's Stephanie. One such theory is that the Wagners were trying to frame data. Rodin's brother, James Manley. He's significant because if you recall, Dana wrote in, Sister Bobbie Jo made the first discovery of bodies and called nine one one. She also called her brother, who rushed to Dana Rodent's house and also found their bodies. His prints were allegedly at the crime scene.

However, just one day before the murders, the Wagners drove two and a half hours to a specific Wal-Mart to buy a particular pair of boots. They're seen on surveillance, buying these boots and other same kind of boots known to be worn by James Manley.

Why would they do that? Here's reporter Jody Barr from the indictment, I mean, there's a lot of assertion by the prosecution that they have evidence that these boots were purchased to free James family, a family member for the murder, and that James lived closest to Dana and that James ended up being one of the first to discover Dana, you know, and bodies that morning.

Right.

So the idea is that they went and bought these specific boots knowing that James May only wore them and then they would, in theory, wear them the night of the murder. So it looks to police like he was the one walking around. And it sounds like for a period of time, investigators might have believed that to be the case because James family was one of the first people brought in and interrogated, given a polygraph.

I mean, if if you're to believe what's written in that indictment, it sounds like they may have been pretty close to pulling this all along. It was so detail oriented. Yeah. And you and you wonder this, too. It's like it seemed like a lot of detailed planning to preplanned that. I don't really know what to think of it. Again, I don't know anybody who's capable of doing that. And we know what happened. It was pulled off by somebody.

But I mean, if they really bought boots to try to frame James Manly man again, this is a heck of a story to dress up.

Who thinks this?

In April 2016, the same week as Hannah's birthday, her mother, Dana, threw a baby shower to celebrate the upcoming birth of her new baby girl, Caylee. It would be the last time the rodent family all gathered in one place. Becky Ryder was a close friend of Dana Rodent's. She told Jeff about the excitement surrounding the baby's arrival. Dana felt overwhelmed with joy, happiness because she's getting another grandbaby that she can love and spoil. She always loved her grandkids deeply.

Yeah, and like Hannah must have been happy, too, because she was she had a new boyfriend at that point who was not Jake Wagner, and she was about to have a new baby and kind of start a new chapter of her life, right? Oh, yeah, absolutely.

And photos from this event, Hannah smiles with her daughter, Sophia. We also see other family members in the photo, including Frankie and his fiancee, Hannah Gilli.

In just a few days, eight members of the Rodin family would be dead.

But Tara's recollection of the events leading up to the birth of Caylee is different. She says at that point that things were still going well between Jake and Hannah.

I believe they may have disagreements and I think it was disappointment, but I don't think there was any any hate.

We've discussed in previous episodes how the people of pectin were immediately affected by the murders and the shroud of fear that hovered over the small town.

I just don't understand why it happened here. You have to really wonder and thing like so like Mafia or anything like that because it's just crazy. If I lived down there, I would stay there. I would be so afraid. But in the wake of the murders, many news outlets were portraying Jake Wagner as almost a sympathetic figure. This is how the Cincinnati Enquirer described him in a July 20 16 article, a full time single dad with mounting legal bills with a new job that pays half of what he was making to ensure he is close to Sofia.

But Carlos still means the twenty three year old makes a daily commute to Cincinnati, a two and a half hour daily drive.

Anybody who was connected to this family, you know, there was a lot of emotion from the public involved here because of these children. So it's no surprise that, Jake, you know, a lot of people felt for Jake. He's left there with their very young daughter and he's fighting to get her back.

But it's what the family did in the wake of the murders that raised some suspicion. We know that just six days after the rodents were killed, Jake Wagner filed for custody of two and a half year old Sofia, his daughter, with Hannah Rodin. In a previous episode, we talked to Ohio criminal defense attorney Mike Allen about how this looks from a legal perspective.

That's extremely strong evidence for the prosecution. I mean, six days, less than a week after the killings to go ahead and file, it can take months, maybe a year, a little bit more. A little bit less.

It's not something that goes quickly at all. And I think that that is going to be some evidence that's problematic for the defense doing it that quickly after the murders. It was around the same time that Angela Wagner suggested her son create a Go Fund Me campaign to help cover the custody expenses to the tune of twenty thousand dollars. Jake wrote a personal message on the page saying these were not expenses I was supposed to have. I was just supposed to be able to spend time with her and give her a happy childhood.

Sophia and I are just asking enough to settle the fees that we acquired due to the horrific tragedy to her mommy. He finished. I hate seeing my daughter cry. We want to get our lives back.

But these legal actions seemed unusual to many in the community. Here's investigative reporter Jody Barr. I do remember seeing that in the Rowden Massacre Facebook group. You know, people talking about that and just, you know, they were there was a lot of angry comments about it that, you know, a lot of people in those groups have already convicted the waggers. They already believe they did it and they're guilty. And, you know, so to see that and and how vocal the Wagners were on social media, it seemed to rub people in that group the wrong way, that that was the wrong message that they believe the Wagner should have been sending at that point in time.

But, you know, a lot of people thought that the brazenness of the people wrapped up in this to make a move like that to ask for help.

Let's stop here for another quick break. We'll be back in a moment. My name is Langston Kerman, and I love black people. I love them short. I love them tall. I love them thick. I forgive them when their booties are small. The only thing I love more than black people are the conspiracy theories that black people come up with.

So I, along with the beautiful oppressors that I heart, radio and big money players have a brand new podcast called My Mama Told Me where each week me and a special guest will explore all of the deep and twisted conspiracies that the white man doesn't want us to know about. We'll talk silly conspiracies. We'll talk crazy conspiracies. We'll talk those conspiracies. You learn from your uncle who used to wear jean shorts when he went swimming at the public pool. Anything from baby urine as an acne treatment to lotion being a tool for government mind control and sterilization.

Ladies and gentlemen, I don't want to be your president, but if you want to hear where the president is hiding that AIDS vaccine, then listen to my mama told me available on the I Heart radio app, Apple podcast or anywhere else that pods are cast. I'm Holly Frying, and I'm Maria FreeMarkets, and together we're exploring the margins of history and specifically at the intersection of history and true crime.

Welcome to the Criminally, a podcast. Our first season of the show is all about lady poisoners, and the history has not been kind to ladies.

Women have been marginalized. They've been vilified. They're falsely accused and often just plain misunderstood time and time again.

But sometimes women take power for themselves and sometimes they do it through murder.

Some of these women absolutely were guilty, but some of them were probably labeled as criminals. But that was not the case. And all of them were viewed through society's lens is sitting at this intersection of being both killers and the fairer sex. But how many were just misunderstood? Listen to criminality on the I Heart radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. In May 2017, with the investigation in full swing, officials searched the farm of a Picton resident named Bernard Brown.

Mike Allen filled us in on why police may have been interested in the property.

Agents searched his farm. I guess he's a friend of the Wagners, knew them for a long time. I guess they they fix cars together. A lot of cars on the lot. I guess Jake had stored some cars and some other things on the property. And I'll tell you what, cars and vehicles and equipment are all over these farms that that have been searched. So, I mean, maybe something could have been hidden somewhere as somebody must have given law enforcement a tip that there could possibly be something there or they wouldn't have searched it.

Bernard Brown was not charged with anything. Authorities searched two large trailers and took one smaller utility trailer owned by the Wagners from his property. According to Brown, Jake Wagner sometimes worked for him fixing cars. Brown said that the Wagners had dropped items off at the property a week prior to the search.

It was clear that investigators were becoming more interested in the Wagners by the spring of 2017. The family had been interviewed several times by authorities. It should be noted that Jake and Angela were interviewed five times, Billy three times and George once.

DeRay spoke to Jeff about a conversation she had with Angela Wagner as police narrowed in on her family.

One day she goes, she goes, I can't believe it. They just won't leave us alone. They just will not leave us alone. She goes, it's terrible. She goes, we're starting to get really worried that we're going to be arrested. So they felt that coming. Yeah, because they they wouldn't leave everybody alone. Rumors of the Wagners potential involvement in the Rowden massacre quickly spread and soon they were being targeted not only by police, but by Pike County residents as well.

Everybody had started basically attacking them, the community accusing them of murdering those people. Like if they were in town and people identified their vehicle, they would throw all of that.

Angela had actually went into a store one day and some woman had actually pulled up behind Angela as she was coming back out of the store and into a glass key bottle at her. And it busted her in the back.

In May 2017, as the community continued to turn against them, Angela Wagner took to social media to publicly declare her family's innocence. Here's Jeff reading from her post.

OK, I had decided to tell you all a couple of things about me and my family. What has happened to us in the past few weeks has been devastating and it will follow us for the rest of our lives. Hannah was a daughter to me. I loved her dearly. Her loss still hurts to this day, especially when I see her every day. And my granddaughter, we did not do anything to hurt Hannah's family. We want justice just like everyone else.

It is real disturbing. If you really want to know what you guys are doing. Your accusations now will hurt Sofia later in life when she really understands what happened. Let's try to find the real monsters who done this. So let's really unpack this for a moment, because if Angela Wagner is in fact a martyr and had been targeted by the town, I mean, having a bottle thrown at you if you did not commit these crimes would be hideous, especially the town that you love so much.

Angela and her husband lived there for generations. That had to be really difficult. However, if they did it and they just went about their lives speaking to the press openly, you know, when I look at her photo, I know I've said this before. She looks like a mom, but then she's also grimacing in her mug shot. And even during her pretrial hearings, there's something sort of smug about the way she presents herself. It also makes me wonder, could she possibly be at the center of this?

Facing violent backlash from locals and increasing attention from authorities, the Wagners did something that left everyone in PYKEN stunned. Here's Duff Winkler again. Their lawyer had said that they were the primary suspects. And so it was around that time, May twenty seventeen, that the whole family emptied out a few cargo facilities, that they had some sheds. Why not load it all up and then up and move to Alaska? When they left for Alaska, I was like, oh, wow, they are running.

And then I thought, they all get away with it. I'm the one that told them, go to Alaska. The state of Ohio cannot afford to extradite you from Alaska back on. But the Waggoner's relocation didn't hinder the investigation. Investigators raided three properties in Adams and Pike counties the middle of May. We had previously reported those properties are connected to the Wagner family. Now, investigators say they believe the family recently moved to Alaska. Investigators want any information the public has about the family.

They moved to Alaska in the very following month. Law enforcement actually finally searches the properties where the Wagners lived that started to tighten the noose in terms of the Wagners. More on that next time. Reach out to us on our social media outlets with questions. We're on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter at Pated Massacre. We look forward to answering your questions and upcoming bonus episodes. Paten, Massacre's executive produced by Stephanie Lydecker, and me, Courtney Armstrong, editing and sound design by executive producer Jared Asten Additional producing by Jeff Shane and Andrew Becker.

The Python massacre is a production of I Heart Radio and Katie's Studios. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the heart radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Get Down to Cape Town is a podcast about the explosion of Korean culture all over the world and why it's here to stay. I'm your host, Esther Choi, founder and chief of several restaurants in New York City. And I truly believe that food is the ultimate gateway to getting to know a culture.

And that's how it all started for me. I've been using my passion for cooking to cultivate a deeper understanding into my culture, and now I can proudly say that I am an ambassador of Korean food and culture. And by using food as an entry point, we dig in deeper to the rich and fascinating culture of Korea, tune into unfiltered conversations with trailblazers and tastemakers.

This show will explore the unique facets of the Korean cultural phenomenon the Kogi Food Truck Movement with Roy Choi. How about how to do the 10 step Korean skincare routine with Chala Cho talking rap, battling as the only Korean kid in the room with yes, you guessed it, dumfounded. We talk to the people at the heart of it all who represent and shape this global movement. Real talk with real people. Listen to get down in Cape Town on the I Heart radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you listen to your podcasts.

What if you can learn from one of the world's most inspiring women now you can introducing Senecas 100 women to hear a new podcast brought to you by Seneca Women and I Heart Radio in celebration of the 100th anniversary of American women getting the vote. We're bringing you the voices of one hundred groundbreaking and history making women. You need to hear women of the past, the present and women who are right now designing our future. Women who've broken barriers in outer space on the Supreme Court and on the playing fields.

Through one hundred episodes, you'll get insight into not just what these women accomplished, but how they think about the world. You'll hear about their setbacks, their successes and what they learned along the way. I'm Kim Mazzarelli, co-founder of Seneca Women and co-author of the best selling book Fast Forward. Listen to Senecas 100 Women to hear on the radio app Apple podcasts wherever you get your podcasts.