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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. My co host today is Rachel Cruz, number one best selling author, co host of Smart Money Happy Hour, and author also of a brand new second best selling book of hers on the kids list. It comes out April 16, and it's up for sale right now. And we have been test marketing it among the grandkids, and it's working. I'm glad for where I am. The first one was, I'm glad for what I have. And so her new book coming out soon, so she's going to be helping me with your questions today. The phone number is 888-825-5225 Micah is with us to start off this hour. He's in Huntsville. Hey, Micah. Welcome to the Ramsey show.


Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call.


Sure. What's up?


Okay, so I just started the baby steps, like, last month, and I have $1,000 in the emergency fund already. It's getting springtime, and my yards are getting pretty high. I'm needing a lawnmower, and I don't currently have the cash to pay for one. But I. I mean, I got, like, $2,000 that I could put down one, not finance, but just buy the cheap one. Or I could hire somebody to cut my grass for the summer while I save to buy a nicer lawnmower, because I live on, like, ten acres, which I'm not going to keep ten acres cut, but just wondering your thoughts on what I should do on that.


Okay. So how much do you actually keep cut?


About four or five.


Okay. And how have you been doing it before now?


Well, we just built the house last year, and so I really haven't had a yard.


Oh, okay.


After. After all the dozer work was done, it was just kind of like a mud hole.




So, uh, we. We planted grass, though, and it's. I keep. Try to keep about four or five acres trap.


Okay. So it's not been cut prior to now, or if it was, somebody else did it, right?


Correct. It was. It was a ten acre pasture, and it was bush hogged up until the time we built.


Mm hmm. Okay. All right.


How much debt do you have, micah?


Currently, we have just the mortgage, and then we also have a. A car payment. The car is about 28,000, and we're on track to pay it off by the end of the year.


What's your house, what's your household.


After taxes, about 90,000.


Okay. All right. Well, you know, the thing on something like this, the beautiful thing about you calling is you're actually thinking about it, because at this time last year, you, if you were facing the same thing, you would have gone and financed a $8,000 stupid tractor of some kind. Right. That you couldn't afford. That. You couldn't afford that.


My dad, my dad listened to y'all. I was growing up. So, I mean, I've. The only stupid decision I ever made was to buy the car, finance it. And the only reason I did it was my wife and I, we both had faithful vehicles, but we was outgrowing the car that we was in with a family vehicle.


And you use that as an excuse to buy something you couldn't afford. Yeah. Okay.


Yeah, pretty much.


Yeah. All right. And the. Okay, so it's a, you know, it's a math thing. If your goal is to pay off the car, the more we spend on the lawn through service or tractor purchase, either one, the shorter, I mean, the longer the car debt's gonna hang around, obviously. So if you put every thousand you put towards this issue of lawn is a thousand not going towards reducing the car. So obviously what you're asking is what, you know, what's the least way we can do this? I don't know. I guess get a bid from somebody on what it'll take to mow it and then compare that to what you could buy a used riding lawnmower on, on Facebook marketplace for.


Well, I mean, if I, if I drop 2500 on a lawnmower, I could, I could do that next month, but it would just push the.


Yeah, it pushes it out. 2500. But are you going, what are you gonna spend to cut the thing all summer if you pay somebody else to do it? Probably more than 2500, I would guess, right?


Right? Yes, sir.


Yeah. So, I mean, the cheapest way to do it is to buy a, the least priced used lawnmower that will get you through the summer.




That's the cheapest way to do it.


I had one more question, if you don't mind.




We've been starting our budget, every dollar budget. We started that this month. And the miscellaneous category is kind of tough for me to, like, figure out how much to put in miscellaneous each month just because that fluctuates pretty good bit when we got, we got two kids under two. I mean, they can get sick at the drop of a hat or they might go a couple months without getting sick. We've just, there's expenses that we don't plan for sometimes that occur during the month, and we just don't want to kill our budget by not planning enough.


Yeah, I would probably up it at the beginning. And then once you guys. Once you guys have done this, like three or four months, there's usually a consistent or how it worked in our house, that consistent thing that keeps coming every month that we throw in the miscellaneous that we end up just making a budget line item for. Yeah.


Like, if kids are going the doctor every three months or two months, then that's a budget line item.


Yes, sir.


I mean, and if you got two under two, it's like a rule. You have to pay the pediatrician's Porsche payment. I mean, oh, my gosh. You know, it's like, you have to go over there. It's federal law. Right. And so the kids are going to do that when they're little bittys. They do that.


They are. Yeah.


And so you're going to have some trouble, you know, so it's really not a surprise. It really wouldn't shock you. And right to Rachel's point, if it reoccurs, then you just make a line item for it and put an amount in that, say kids medical. Okay. In every dollar. And then you lower whatever you put in there. You lower your miscellaneous by that.


Yeah, but. And I would say, too, Micah, into anyone listening, that is budgeting for the first time, that miscellaneous category. I would make it higher than what you think you need because there's going to be expenses in your life that you don't even realize because you haven't been budgeting.




And so you're going to go through a few months of it to be able to say, oh, my gosh. Okay, that's the thing that keeps coming up. Or, oh, we got this. We got this way more under control. And so we can actually lower the miscellaneous. So I would be more conservative. More liberal. Conservative. Higher. Higher amount on the miscellaneous category for now, micah, especially since political.


More liberal.


I was like, it's more like here.


You'Re not a liberal.




It's just more money.


You never know. You never know.




How much is a lawnmower, though? For real?


No, I mean, you can buy a push mower right now. A used push mower.




All day long on Facebook marketplace for $50. But five acres, that's like 73 days. You'll be cutting out.


How much is like a zero turn?


I don't know.


Do you like that phrase?


Look at that. Look at that. So probably a couple grand five. He's probably, oh, five grand. You can pick it up for two. I used one, but it's not one you want. It's one to get the grass cut with.




So it won't bake bread and it won't catch fish while you're mowing. And some of them will. So some of them will do it with gps.




So, no, we're just. We're trying to basically cut the grass. That's all.


That I wonder in Huntsville what I was thinking. I was like, some kid. The summer is gonna. Is gonna be doing this for their job.


I know, but 25, $2,000 for the whole summer? For five acres? I doubt it. Yeah, I doubt it. I might be wrong.


It seems like a lot. I don't know.


Okay. That's the analysis. I want to go back to the other thing, because when you first start budgeting.


I'm a liberal.


We. No, no, no. We're not. We're not worried about that because you'll get. Just get thrown out of the family. But the. Oh, my gosh. We are not to fire you. But you would. But anyway, I'm here for all people. Yes, we love all people, but we aren't all people.


I'm here.


We love them, but that doesn't mean we want to be them. Okay, so the.


Anyway, I'm a conspiracy theorist.


I'll just.


I'll just. All on that label.


That one you can have. That one's legal. Okay, so the miscellaneous. It takes 90 days of doing your budget for your budget to start to work. And part of it is the things you don't expect to come when you first start doing this, like kids medical or activity fees at school or so on. So give yourself some grace to lean into that over the first 90 days. This is the Ramsey show, guys. It's no secret that the real estate market is weird right now. So go with a mortgage company you can trust to have your back. Churchill mortgage. Churchill is Ramsey trusted because they're stable, reliable, and focused on you. At a time when a lot of companies are being bought out or going out of business, count on Churchill mortgage to stick around. They've been doing things the right way for over 30 years, and they'll keep doing them the right way for 30 more. Get Dot this is a paid advertisement in MLS.


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Rachel Cruze Ramsey Personality number one best selling author my daughter is my co host today. Melody's in Atlanta. Hi, Melody. How are you?


I'm good. How are you?


Better than we deserve. How can we help?


So we are within two weeks, in theory, of having our first born and.


Trying to figure out what are you having?


Excited little boy.


All right. Very fun.




Thank you. Just trying to figure out best options for investments moving forward past just like work. Four hundred and one s. And what we can kind of do is a little extra to have him set up.


Okay. Is this for your son, you're thinking for specifically, or you guys as a family or, like, as a couple?


Family. As a family.


Okay. Are you guys.


He'll have to work when the time comes.


Yes, yes, yes, yes. Are you. Are you guys working your way out of debt or are you out now?


No, we are out of debt. We finished paying off our house two weeks ago.


Oh, way to go.


Oh, my gosh.


You're 100% debt free.


Yes, sir.


Way to go.


So you guys, both cars are paid for? One was the one I had when we got married. The other one we paid cash for a little over about two years ago, I guess.


Gosh, that's so impressive. How much do you guys make a year?


It fluctuates. My husband works very, very hard. It ranges. He has a salary, but then he has on the road per diem, and then he has, like, premium time he can make as well. So.


So how much do you make a year?


Salary is just a little over 100. And then his take home last year was a little over two.


Okay, that's excellent.


Way to go.






I mean, I would stick with match. Maxing out what you can and maxing out. Well, you guys will be beyond the Roth. I think you. I think it's.


You can do a Roth backdoor. No, I can do a roth. I mean, if he's under 200, Agi will be. So probably somewhere around there. You can do backdoor or regular. You need to be maxing out both roths. You need to be maxing out 401 ks, hopefully in a Roth with a match. And you max out your 529 for the kiddo and our Matt. You don't have to max it out, but put six or 810 grand in there a year. And if you do that, he's going to go to college anywhere he wants to go. If you do that, he's going to go to college anywhere he wants to go. And if you put all you can put in 401 ks and Roths. How old are you guys?


He's 32. I'm 30.


Okay. That alone at 65 will have you between five and $10 million just doing that.


Okay, you said both Roths.




So you can, you can have one espousal. Espousal. Even though you don't work, you can open one melody under your name.


All right, so we have 401k with his work, and then that's, what is it, the Roth Ira, like the personal one?




I've been trying to do some research on that, but yes. Got a little confused.


Yes. You can do a Roth IRA each 6000, and he can max out his 401k. If he has a Roth option on the 401k, it should be doing that.




Okay, perfect.


Sorry. Write that down.


So what you need to do is jump on and click on smart vestor and find a smartvestor pro in your area. These are the mutual fund brokers that we recommend, and you can find one that has, they have the heart of a teacher, or we don't put them on there. So they're going to sit down and teach you what is best and what these numbers will turn into. So you're going to be very, very wealthy if you just do that. Now, once you've maxed out all of that stuff, you're at what we call baby step seven. No debt at all. There's nothing left to do but become extremely wealthy and be wildly generous. That's it. That's all you got left to do. So, and enjoy some money in the process. But the, so, you know, beyond that, then you start talking about, okay, am I going to do more mutual fund investing or am I going to pay cash for some rental real estate? If you want to be in that world, that kind of thing. Those are the two things I have done beyond maxing out everything. But your first step is get the 529 started for kiddo.


Once he's got a Social Security number, he's arrived, then you can do that and do that in a month or two here, and you guys max out the 401 with the match and max out both roths. That's a, that's a really good start. And again, if that's all you ever do for the next 30 years, it's going to be millions and millions and millions of dollars. So you're going to be in great shape. But why not even do more, you know? And why not enjoy more and why not be even more generous? So sit down with a smart vista pro and they'll help you do all that.


Yeah. And for kids, because I, I've talked to a lot of families who are like, okay, if we max everything out, what investment options besides just education, can I do for my kids?


You don't.


And they're up my accounts. There's. I mean, there's other.


You can. But I wouldn't.




I would just build it in your. Build the wealth in your name and then leave it to them as a part of the estate when they.


When the parent dies, though.


That's. That's. Well, or you could. You could. If you want to hand them some money.


Yeah, that's what I was saying.


You could handle money early, but there's no point in putting it in their name. Yeah, there's no, you know, because you don't have. You lose control and you lose options. So when you build wealth, you're building wealth for your whole family. Your family is going to get the use of the wealth. So there's no point in putting in the kid's name because, I mean, the kid may decide that they're, you know, they may have all kinds of problems or something.


You know, they can get to.


Yeah, get to it if they own it. But not my.


What? 18, though?


21 on a hut, but, yeah. Uniform transfer to minors act is when you open an account in the child's name, Utma, and put your name on it as the custodian, but you do not have control of it. So he's doing heroin at 21. He's got a million dollars. Not this kid, but another kid. The kid's doing a million, and he's got a million dollars. You just killed your kid.


I know.


Cause you're gonna access that and they're gonna overdose on heroin. So you have to control it. No, I mean, you're being so dramatic. No, but this is what happens. I mean, I've been doing this 30 years.


I know, but I'm just, though, for family. Okay. Because, say, you're like, okay, you know, think about Melody. They freaking have everything paid off. I know. I'm going down a road, so follow me.


I'll try.


Everything paid off. They have a baby born in a month. So in 18 years, say Melody and her husband are like, yeah, we'll help with, like, the down payment on the home because he's not doing heroin and he's awesome and he has a job. He's paying taxes. He's responsible.


Yeah, he's a great kid.


He's a great kid. This one's gonna turn out and it's like, great. We have Melody and husband, so much money, and we want to help our kids continue that legacy. So we want to, you know, say, hey, here's a down payment for a home. Or here's something that is not college related.


Yeah, you can.


Isn't there a gift tax? Like, doesn't that get into, like, you.


Can avoid gift tax with uniform transfer to minors act, which is a utma. No.




I'm sorry. Unified estate tax credit. I picked up the wrong uni.




Unified estate track tax credit, and you can avoid it and move money anytime you need to. And, of course, the other thing is this. You can. Okay, gift tax this year is what? I don't know, $15,000 or whatever. Yeah, something like that. And so let's say that if you want to give your grown kids some money, I need to. Look, James, find the gift tax and tell me what it is. But the. Because I can't remember nothing. Oh, it's right here. It's on my notebook. Oh, hello. I got this cheat sheet I should use. All right. Because I. Well, they change it. They up it for inflation every year. 17,000. Okay, so if a married couple has a grown married child in their twenties.




There's four players involved.




Mom can give daughter in law and son 17 each, two checks.




Dad can give daughter in law and son 17 each in 60,000 check ish.




Yeah. And so that's $64,000 or $68,000. Okay. In one year, if you happen to do it at Christmas, you do it again three weeks later, and you got 128,000.










So, you know, you can get to just about anywhere you want to get to just using that without even using the unified estate tax credit, which means you're using up some of your estate exemptions in the federal. By using it against gift tax. So you can get your money to your kids.


Yeah. While you're alive, because that's part of all of this, you guys, is changing your family tree. When we talk about that. Yes. That is. That is knowledge. That's character. Like, there's so much there. But also, I think about the reality of so many people listening now that are so young, and if they start doing this, they're gonna look so much money. So much money in 20 years. And part of changing that family tree is, what does this look like?


You know, all three of you. All three of you turned out so far. Okay. And so, so far. Right.


And so you can use none of that.


None of you had. None of you had big accounts in your names, except that your college funds were utmost, because there was not a 529 back then and we handed your utma to you. Yes, that was your old college fund because we'd cash flowed the college. And you guys used that for your first houses and stuff, and that got you going on your wealth stuff, but you didn't have a million dollars in your name when you graduated from college because I know, but I did. I had a million dollars in my name, and then I could do stuff with it if I wanted to.


I hear you.


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So Rachel Cruz, my co host today and daughter, has a brand new book out comes out April 16. We're in pre sale right now. I'm glad for where I am, a new children's book. It's all about gratitude. The first one was about contentment. If you will teach your kiddos gratitude and contentment, you set them on a real wonderful psychological path. The health of their psychology, the health of their emotions, a wonderful spiritual path. And those two things will lead them to an ability to build wealth, because people who are grateful and people who are content have a very high tendency to win with money and life, for that matter. So that's what this is all about. It's not just a little kids book. There's a game here that we're playing that's a long ball. So this comes out now. You're going to be doing signings in several cities. Are we announcing that yet?


I am. I don't have all the details, but signings will be in LA, Dallas, Phoenix and Atlanta.


So story time.


Yeah. So I'm going to do a story time.




Local barnes and nobles, but we'll get you the exact addresses and times, probably around 01:00 signings and those cities coming up in two weeks. So, so excited.


And Ken Coleman's new book that comes from the get clear assessment of his almost 100,000 folks have taken the get clear assessment. You can get it on our website, but we're putting a book companion piece with it called find the work you're wired to do that explains the results of and includes the get clear assessment. So you'll get a code to take the assessment and then this will walk you through what you're learning about yourself. To get plugged into the proper career, that's not only fulfilling, but it turns out when you love what you do and when you're good at it and you're fulfilling and you're fulfilled at it, you will make the most you've ever made in your life, which is part of the goal here. And so very few people maximize their income doing something they hate and that they suck at very tight. Very few. That's just highly unusual. So this. But that book is also in pre sale. It comes out technically, and we'll ship it to you first week of May. And so all of those are on sale. And that's what's happening around here right now. All right. Rachel is with us in Salt Lake City.


Hi, Rachel. Welcome to the Ramsey show. Hi.


Hi. How are you?


Good. How can we help?


Yes, sorry, excuse me. I'm extremely nervous to talk to you. I've been following you for the last four months really heavily after having a sister non stop in my ear about Dave.


Listen, anyone with an accent as cruel as yours should not be nervous to talk to. Is it british or australian? What am I missing?


It's british.


It's british.


You're right.


So where are you from in the UK?


From Paul, from Dorset originally, but we actually emigrated two years ago. And I'm going to try and make this. It seems like an easy question, but it's complicated, so I'm going to try not to ramble. We emigrated two years ago because we couldn't do in the UK what we wanted to do here, which was buy land, build. My husband has been in construction for 15 years and is really good at it. We raised all the capital. We came here and within a month of moving here, I was diagnosed with stage three cancer. And all of our money went to keeping me alive. Plus about $36,000 worth of credit card debt.


I'm calling that a good investment.




Yeah, right. But still. So we're not massively in debt. Just about $36,000 of credit card debt. But long story short, my husband, on top of that, his dad passed away very suddenly, was healthy, and passed very suddenly last year. And we're about to receive roughly about what we've spent on keeping me alive. Back in inheritance from his father's estate. Wow. And we are in Lockheed. My husband is sitting next to me. He didn't want to be on speaker because he has an accent, too, and he didn't think he'd hear him properly. But we're just in a place where we're following his steps and we know we should pay the debt off, but we're in disagreement with what that money should do because he knows he can take that and he can change our lives within eight to ten months by investing what his dad's inheritance will bring and put us straight into out clear with six months in the bank savings.


How much money is this?


It's 120. But lan's only about 28,000 here, and he can knock it up real quick. So it's.




And we can sell it for 350. So the numbers work. He's not just. It's not a pipe dream. We've done the numbers. We came out with a business plan. We do know what we're doing, but we're.


So you're going to build something for $128,000 that you can sell for 350?


That's correct.


That's right. Okay.


Obviously, less fees. There's going to be fees and. But then what? The plan is to reinvest it and then go to a piece of land that he can do for on, and, you know, to grow from that. That was what we came here to do, because we couldn't do that.


Normal builder margins in the United States of America are nowhere near that. This is a high numbers. These are numbers I've never seen before, and I do a lot of real estate.


I understand. We have run the numbers. We've got an estate agent. We've looked at the market. I mean, 350 from the higher side. Worst case scenario is going to be 3300. And my husband's doing the work himself, so he's not having to. Obviously, like I said, he's been in construction for 15 years, so he knows how to do ground up. He does everything and is qualified just in about. Just about everything you can imagine so we're doing this, you know, we've not got a whole lot of labor costs because my husband is doing this while I'm working and keeping our bills paid through my job.


A guy building a house completely by.


Himself, he'll have help, but it's just not going to cost a lot because he's been laborers, because he knows what he's doing.


Rachel, do you guys have any other savings? Do you guys have any other savings?


We don't. Like I said, well, we've got the thousand, we've got the emergency fund. We started our debt snowball as well. So we're into our debt snowball, but like I said, it's, we're arguing back and forth because I want to clear the debt and then wait. And he's saying it's going to take. He worries if I relapse or anything else goes wrong and we'll never get this opportunity again. He's worried that if we don't do this now.


So here's what makes me nervous about it, Rachel, because, I mean, I trust you guys. You've run the numbers. You know what you're doing. It's not a question of that. But whenever you make a decision that is so single, focused, and the way you, the language you're using or the language that he's using that you're telling us, it is this urgency, it's this, if I don't do this now, it's never going to happen again. And you can plug in that, Rachel, that scenario, that language with kids going to college. I got accepted this college. If I don't get, if I don't go this fall, then this, this, and this isn't going to happen or, um, or someone buying a house, and they'll tell us it's. It's the only house. This is the only house we can do. It's our only option. And when you start to do that, Rachel, you start to lose the ability to make decisions because you don't have options. And so what I would say is I would slow down. I really believe you guys know what you're doing. He's very talented. He's really good at what he does, and. But that's the business side of his world.


But what we're talking about here is your personal home and your personal debt and where you guys are and this inheritance is coming in. And so I would clear it because the urgency of the other option as well. Usually people don't make great decisions when you're in that position. Does that make sense?


Yeah, this is a fatalistic language. What do you make?


We make about 110 between us a year.


Okay, so why can you not pay off $36,000 in twelve months?


Because we're paying. You're going to hate me, Dave. They made me tell you we have our kids in private. We have two children in christian private school. That takes quite a lot. We tried public school and my daughter has autism and my son has gastroparesis and the state just wouldn't work with us around that, so we moved them into private school. We do.


What do you do for a living?


I am a piano and voice teacher and my husband obviously owns a construction company.


And he's doing construction now?


Yes, he is. So he's working for us. He picks up projects and is working. Wants to be working for himself. This is what we came to do. Rachel had to go back and listen.


As mom, all the health stuff that you guys have been through, and then as you just explained with your two kids, I'm like, I would not want risk. I would want everything paid and I want a pile of money in the bank. Because the amount of situations that can come up for you guys, so. Is a lot.


So the answer to the question is no. I would not build the house. I would not build the house. I would pay off the debt and I would go. If I'm your husband, I'm going to start doing renovations and rehabs for other people self employed. Because he has the ability to do this, he can make a lot more money than he's making now and build that business and build some cash based back up and then go do this other deal. Because I got to tell you, I've been doing this a long time, and I know a lot about building and building a house right now. And the numbers you're giving me, they don't work. I know you like them and you believe in them, but that's the other problem. Listen, everyone needs id theft protection. It doesn't matter your age, how much money you have, or where you live. We all worked too hard to build our personal and financial reputations to have some thief rip them to shreds. Trust me, it's an absolute nightmare if you become a victim. But wasting money on overhyped, expensive plans doesn't make sense either. That's where Xander's id theft plan comes in.


They bundled together the services you need at pricing that can't be beat. Whether you're looking for monitoring, that includes your home title, VPN encryption, unlimited recovery services, or stolen funds protection, you'll get that and more at great value while dealing with people you can trust. I've seen these guys in action, which is why I have Zander's plan for my family and our entire team. Go to or call 803 564282 to get protected, save money, and stay ahead of the identity theft nightmare. A couple of circle backs before I get 9000 comments about how dumb I am with taxes. Because I am. And that would be accurate, but there's no reason to make it worse. So the gift tax is not 17,000. Even my cheat sheet that was in front of me because my brain doesn't remember all these things was wrong. And so it's actually 18,024. So an individual can give an individual $18,000 without any gift tax or income tax. If an individual gives an individual more than that, or if you're not a nonprofit, okay, then you're going to get gift tax. But I can give an individual 18,000 and then my wife can give an individual 18,000.


And so that gets them 36,000. And so with grown children that are married, you can do it four times, you know, father to daughter, father to son in law. Daughter or mom to daughter, mom to son in law. Right. And so that creates four checks of 18,000. So that would be $72,000. You can move. So sorry, guys. Just don't need to get your hate later. You hate me for a lot of things that I. That I don't even do that one I actually did. So the other thing is this. I want to. I want to continue our conversation just a little bit, just in general. So the last caller, Rachel, you brought up the most important part on that call, which is that when you narrow it down to, I've got just one shot.




And if I miss that one shot on any decision that you're making, you are now rationalizing the decision because it is not a fact that you only have one shot. So there's. If I don't get this house, I'm never going to get a house. If I don't buy this car, I'm never going to get a car. God only put one person on the entire planet for me to marry. And if I miss that one, I'm going to not be married. Bull crap. Okay. Just bad thinking skills. So anytime that you allow anxiety, the stress and strain of life, the tragedies of life, the fact you've been fighting cancer or anything else to narrow you down to one singular decision, Rachel's point, it was that you're going to make a bad decision.


Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we find that a lot with people because, you know, because money is a tool, you know, in your life that you're using. And when life is hard or life feels out of control or life feels like I'm watch this one thing, then you use that tool, money, to go.


And try to get the control back.


And try to get that control back.




And so there is a patience to slow down and to say, let me gather some more options, option a, B and c, and out of that, then you can start making. Okay, maybe. Maybe the answer still is a, for whatever your situation is. But at least you've researched and you've thought and you've taken time to look at b and C because, man, we just, because, I don't know, we talk to people all the time and it was like we're in a house and we shouldn't have bought it, but we just thought it was a really good deal. We didn't think we could find another deal like this. We got in it and turns out it wasn't, you know, like you get in this mindset and it's just really, it's really dangerous.


So couple of deci. Bad decisions are one of the primary thing. That's things that steal your wealth. So decision making principles are important. So decision making principle number one, if you think there's only one or two things to do, you haven't spent enough time gathering up options. Options are power. Options are informative. Options cause you to really think clearly. And so, you know, you know, like, the people that call in, they go, well, we've got mold in our house, and the only other house that we can live in is $4,000 a month and we make 5000. So do we buy a house and go bankrupt or do we stay in the moldy house and kill our children? You know, and, like, you have two stupid butt options and I'm supposed to choose between these two? See, none of the above. Keep looking. You haven't figured it out yet, you know, and so that's the kind of thing we're talking about. We get that call, actually. So that's call that's come in more than once over the years. And so it's just because you justify the crap out of doing something you.


Don'T need to do well and fear will do that, too. Did you hear that in your example of mold in the house, which is very real, but also her husband, in the last call, he said, what if you relapse she said that, you know, and there's a level of fear there.


And so facts. John Deloney says, when you're facing trauma, facts are your friends.




And facts are more and more and more options. Number two. Number two, decision making principle. Slow down to the extent of the size of the decision. Quit spending all your calories on nothing decisions. Some people spend more time deciding which gum to purchase in the gas station than they do which car to purchase. You spent your calories on the wrong things. The bigger the decision, the more time. And then, you know, I can't. I'm frozen with indecision. Dentine or eclipse? But I, but I impulsed a porsche. You know, it's like this is the backwards stuff right here. You know, it's so the size of the decision means you need to slow down and have more and more options. And then the length of. And patients. Your pulse rate needs to drop. If you got house fever, go take a cold shower. Your pulse rate needs to drop. You're about to do something stupid because you can just hear it. You can hear the anxiety in the, in people's voices when they call in here with these things. And not just her. She was, she's a sweet girl. She was nervous as part of it.


Too, but there's a high level of emotion.


Then circle back one more thing on her call, because I really need to get this out here for her to hear and her husband to hear, but also everybody else. Okay. The option of taking your 128,000 and putting it into a spec house, building a house from the ground up on a piece of real estate and flipping it immediately. A spec. A house, that's speculation. Builder, spec house is one option. But let me just tell you, I grew up in the construction business. I've had my real estate license since I was 18, and I'm older than dirt. So I've been doing this stuff a long, long time. I can tell you for sure that if you have builder skills, you show up on time, you finish the project of renovation or new construction on time, and you build a budget and stick to the budget. You are an unusual animal. You are very, very marketable because most people in the construction business can't even show up, much less finish. And their numbers are so screwed that they piss everybody off. They're dealing with because they don't show up on time. They miss their numbers and they don't finish on time.


And so they never get repeat business because they make everybody mad that they're dealing with. If you'll just show up on time, you, you can own the world. And finish on time and hit your numbers. You can own the world. So that young man, if he can do the deal, he thinks he can do, he can do renovations and make $300,000 a year.




He can grow a renovation and new and custom housing business, build decks, put porches on the back, whatever it is. He can make a bazillion dollars if he has the skill set that she says he has. And I don't doubt it.




And if he can actually pull off projects.




Show up on time, take a bath, you know, and finish the project on time and hit your numbers, you got no competition because nobody else in that space hardly does it. Very few do. And the ones that do end up being custom home builders for the rich.


Yeah. Because they're excellent at what they do.


Exactly. Yeah.


And so you got, dude, you got so much potential out there. If you do that, that you, I think you could take that hundred. You can take $128,000 -30 $6,000 worth of credit card debt. Use that to do some, some renovations, parlay your way into 300,000 in cash and go do you a couple of these specs later. If your numbers are right and I'm wrong, because I think your numbers are unrealistic. But if I'm wrong about that, which I'm happy to be wrong, I hope, I hope I'm wrong. I hope you make a hundred. I hope you make a hundred percent margin on a construction project. But it's very unusual. Not doesn't happen. Okay. So if you can do that, then you can do what I'm talking about with what's left over after you pay the credit card debt off. And that's your third option.


That's right. That's right. And it's a classic, too. Example, which just happens in so many families and so many marriages, is you kind of got your realist and your dreamer, right.


Oh, yeah.


And it's like, oh, just give me this. Give me this shot. Give me this shot. Right. And not that all dreamers are wrong, because sometimes it's right, but also, I would say to him, listen to your wife, the emotional space in your home. Bring the peace. Bring the peace of not owing anyone anything. Bring the peace of having savings in the bank. Like, bring the peace. And then, and then let's focus on everything else.


Let's go grow this confrontation.


Yeah. For a wife that's been sick and kids that are sick, all of it, I'm like, oh, yeah, this is a.


Shame idea that I spent the money our family was gonna get rich on to save me from cancer. And I'm ashamed. That's ridiculous. No, no.




No, no, no, no. So, no. Your family's gonna be fine, even though you had cancer. This is the Ramsey show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey solutions. It's the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality number one best selling author, host of the Rachel Cruz show, and co host of Smart Money Happy Hour, two of the Ramsey network's more popular podcasts and YouTube shows. Also, my daughter, she's my co host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225 Tara is with us in Louisville, Kentucky. Hi, Tara. Welcome to the Ramsey show.


Thank you.


There you are. You cut out a little bit.


Oh, I'm sorry. I'm staying as close to a window as I can.


You're great.


Are you ready for the questions?


We'll try.


Okay. We're looking for advice on what we can do for financing for flipping houses. We currently use our home equity line of credit for the purchasing and remodeling. But of course, that payment gets a little high. So we're just looking for something, some ideas of what to do.


Okay. I've probably done 1500 or 2000 flips in my life. That's what I used to do for a living before I went broke because I borrowed money doing flips. So for 35 years, I've taught people not to borrow money as a primary way to lower risk and create wealth. I don't borrow money, and so I'm not going to be able to help you borrow money.


Okay. What then? What do you. I mean, do you just straight out advise, just cash for.






And here's, there's a lot of reasons why. Okay, when you use financing to purchase a house that you're going to flip, you're not as careful as when you use money out of your bank account to purchase a house to flip. When you are using financing to do the renovation on the flip, you're not as careful as when you're pulling your stinking hard earned money out of your checking account to do the renovation, and you end up spending more on the purchase, more on the renovation. Thus your margins are lower. Oh, and then when you get ready to sell it and interest rates tick up from three to seven and the market slows down dramatically and you're sitting on this thing with payments, you become what's called a motivated seller and you give up the rest of your margin. So your margins are destroyed when you do flips for those three reasons with financing. So I would go a lot slower, buy a lot smaller. Buy something seriously junky and tiny, and flip it with cash out of your pocket. Use every bit of the profits from that to do that, to upgrade your flip to the next one.


Upgrade your flip to the next one. And upgrade your organically grow your cash base with profits to increase the quality of the flip that you're doing. Because what you are doing causes more people to go broke than it prospers. More people, including me.




So I'm really scared for you, because the thing that has to go through your mind when you're doing these deals is that this is all going to work. And it never. In real estate, I've done thousands of transactions. It never works exactly the way you thought it was going to.


Yep. That's exactly right. And, you know, Tara, my husband, just. Even this last year, he's kind of started.


He's done three flips.


Yeah. And, you know, and we've cash flowed it. And you're right. You. And he's good at real estate and he does it. So I can't. I can't take any credit. But, yeah, there's like, you know, it's estate sale. There's dead rats in the house. I mean, it's. They're not pretty properties. But then when you go and what you're saying, you make the selections, and it's us making the selections out of our own account, you are like, okay, what can we do here? Here. To save money here. I mean, you were thinking through everything. We brought the kids out to do the yard work last weekend over Easter to help move some stuff before they went through and, like, tore out the bushes. And, you know, I mean, you just think about it different. It's just. And it's a slower process. It's not as fun and flashy, but there's so much less risk. And if something were to happen, you're okay. You're okay because you're not. You don't owe a bank something. You know, like, it just goes back to the options. Like we talked about in the last hour.


I mean, let's pretend there was a Fauci pandemic or something like that, and the market just froze like a deer in the headlights. And nobody's leaving their home, and they're cuddled up in the corner with their mask.


Well, and what happened with you was that you had so many of those going and you were good at it.




And because of that, you, Mac, you kept building on it and making a bigger, bigger risk.


And then when I had a million seven in finance flips at 24 years old, I owed the bank a million seven on flips.


Remind everybody, because that was. That was 1984 decades ago. Because 1984, it's a million seven now.


For some people, it would be 8 million now. Okay.




So I had the equivalent of $8 million financed in today's dollars under flips at 24 years old in 1984. Is it one way? 1,000,007? 1,000,001 with one bank. And this is how I learned not to borrow money. Yeah. And I had. I had 30% equity positions and almost every one of them. I was not late on a single note. So what happened, Dave? What happened to your little house of cards? The bank got sold. Small town bank doing business with me. They knew I knew what I was doing. My family had been in the real estate business. I've got a history, family history, of knowing what we're doing. All of a sudden, some bozo in Atlanta instead of Nashville is making a decision, and he looked down and said, a 24 year old owes us a million three. Have we lost our minds as a bank? Answer? Yes, but. And they called our notes, which they have the right to do with commercial paper. It has a call provision in it if they don't like the quality of collateral. And they suddenly just declared that they didn't like the quality of their collateral anymore. And now I've got to come up with a million three, and I'm 24 years old.


It's all tied up in real estate, and I probably got $30,000 in cash because I was a freaking genius and had it all figured out. Now, there's your tick tock deal right there. You tick tock morons wanting to flip houses. So there you go. And so that's exactly what's happening now. That, and I spent the next three and a half. Two and a half, three years of my life losing everything I own. And so the year Rachel was born, we ended up filing bankruptcy. At the bottom of it, lost every stinking thing. One year, I made $250,000. That's $20,000 a month. In 1980, $4. The next year, my taxable income was $6,000. I spent the whole year selling stuff to avoid foreclosure or being foreclosed on on the way down into bankruptcy. So, yeah, trauma. I'm a trauma survivor. So that's it. And so, Dave, don't borrow money when the borrower is slave to the lenders in the Bible. I think God's smart. I think God knows something I don't know. And I don't borrow money anymore. So all that to say, Tara, I.


Call the wrong guy?


No, but, no, call the right guy. If some, whoever told you to call over here, I think they set you up. But, yeah, I want you to go do flips. I mean, my son in law does them. My daughter's husband sitting right here. And I taught him how. I taught him a lot. Not everything. I taught him how to buy foreclosures and buy real estate. He worked running our Ramsey portfolio for a lot of years and still runs it. But he's, he's. And he's using the formulas right now that we talked about back in those days. And he, and he's paying cash. So I'm not against flips, but do it with cash and you make way better decisions all the way across the board, and you don't turn yourself into a motivated seller. And you won't hear any of that on TikTok, I can tell you. This is the Ramsey show. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, is my co host today. Glenda is in grand, in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. Hi, Glenda. How are you?


I am good. How are you guys? Thank you for accepting my call.


Sure. How can we help?


Okay. Just to get it out of the way, we are FPU flunkies. So just to start that with my questions, I just wanted to make sure.


You knew that you're a beauty school dropout, huh? Okay.


We are absolutely. Okay. So my question is, we've always heard that you say mobile homes go down in depreciation. They do if you're in debt and you own your mobile home and land, but not in the ideal living situation. Should we sell to get a house or stay? We have animals so we can't rent, and we have many animals we take care of. My parents and my dad has dementia. And it's also affecting our marriage of where we're at.


I'm sorry, what is, what is affecting your marriage about where you're at?


We have family that live out that way. The family one could be next door, there's drug use.


So you want to move away because of that, too?


Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. You want to be around people.


Yeah, I got it.


Yeah. You want to be around people that you want to like. Like you say.


So what kind of animals have you got?


Chicken, ducks, dogs, cats, rabbits.


And how many acres? How many acres do you have? Now?


We have close to an acre.


One acre close to it.




But you're just in the country, so you get away with all that.


Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.


These aren't. These aren't city. These aren't city chickens. Okay.


No, no, no.


These aren't millennial yuppie chickens, okay.


Nope, they're not.


The eggs are great.


Yeah. All right.




All right. So, country chickens, how much could you sell everything for? Glenda, if you sold it, what would it bring?


We're guessing about 100,000.


With the land and the mobile home together?


Yes, because we did.


What do you owe?


But it's nothing. We own it outright. My parents gave us a land. We bought the mobile home.


So sell it and go buy something for 100 grand.


Ooh. Should we do that for a house, though? So I don't want another mobile home.


No, I don't. You're not gonna get another mobile home. It kind of defeats the purpose.


No, but you can take out.


It might not be much of a house, but how much other debt have you got?


About 50,000.


On what?


Oh, boy. Here we go. Dave. It's averaging 50,000. My numbers I don't have exactly with me, but it's about 13,000 on a car, which we're hoping to pay off in the next year. We have about a $17,000 personal loan because I got plastic surgery. I know. Don't yell at me. We have about, I'd say about $12,000 in student loan. Just miscellaneous debt. Anything else?


He's okay.




Okay. So what I would do is find. Go out. Go out and start shopping for a very small or not such good condition home that is stick built, that will go up in value as you fix it up on a piece of ground and, you know, and try to make a move that way.




Now then, the other options are okay, because whatever the value of this mobile home is in five years, can you and I agree, it's going to be way less than it is now.


Oh, absolutely.


Okay. So you're causing your money to go backwards. Every day you keep this, and you're living next to family drug addicts. And so there's a lot of reasons to move, but every time we do something, there's always. There's the pain of staying there next to the mess and the pain of staying there with a mobile home going down. But the pain of moving to get your family away from those two things might be no chickens.


I would be fine getting away from it.


Yeah. So the animals, you may have to cut the animals down to a level that you can rent for a little while, write a check and pay off everything and have a lower animal level. And I love animals, but you gotta.


Make choices in these situations, and it's greater in this situation, obviously, from a financial and just. Yeah. Getting away from the mess to be able to say, we have peace over here. And that may mean eliminating selling off.


Yeah. So let's pretend that we could write a prescription for you if we were the doctor. Okay. And here, if you go fill this prescription, you will be wealthy. Okay? So you sell the place. You go rent something with $50,000 in the bank and zero debt, and you straighten your act up and go back through financial peace university, get on a budget, increase your incomes, and let's pile up cash on top of that, 52 years from now. Let's buy a nice place for 150 because you have no payments except a little rent payment. It's going to cost you some animals, and you're going to have a lot of peace in your life because you have zero debt and zero drug use next door. And you're going to be cleaning up. You looking in the mirror and you're not going to say, I'm a dropout anymore. You're going to go back through financial peace University and I'm going to pay for it. And if you go do all of that stuff, your life is going to be such a completely different place four years from now, five years from now than it is now. But if you go do one of those things, it's not gonna work.


You're gonna be right where you are. You can't just do part of this. You can't take. If the. If the doctor gives you four prescriptions, say, I'm just gonna take one of them and then gripe because you're still hurting. Yeah, you know, I'm still ill. My health is still bad. So you're gonna have to do the whole thing, Glenda. And if you do that, honey, you can do it. The lady I'm talking to is not dumb. You're smart. You can do it. You just have not chosen to do it yet. So now it's time to choose. So hang on. We'll help you if you want to. If you want financial peace, we'll give it to you. You go back through it. This time, be serious. Like, your life depends on it, because, honey, it does. The quality of your life depends on you getting your act together and dump that stuff, man. And let's make the move. Make it happen. Boom, boom, boom, boom. Boom. You don't have to be a mess. You're choosing to be a hot mess. Change the. Change the choices, and you can do it. You're the kind of lady that can do it.


You got the stuff. I'm amazed what happens when people follow.


Through on all that, when they do the whole thing.




Yeah, I know.


And how pitiful the results are when you just do part of it.


Yes. But the pain as you're giving up things in the present that you feel like, oh, my gosh, well, we need this and that.


And it's the devil that I know. It's that, you know, it's the mess that I know.




I'm used to my mess.


And the thing is, is that you can get back to part of the life that you're, you know, sacrificing right now and the things that you love.




I mean, same with, like, a car, for instance. I know a car is not an animal, but, like, you know, we tell people, sell the car, you can get that car again one day when you pay for it. Like, it's not like you never get that car again, but do it the right way. And even, like, think, you know, something, like the animals, it's like, yeah, maybe for a season you don't have animals, but if you really miss that, then you work towards a life to get them back and to be able to say, yeah, we want that life again. And that's the beautiful thing about it. But you're just doing it the right way, which the order is really important in that to find the success and to do it well.


Yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah. Me and you didn't grow up on a farm, but your mom did, and her emotional attachment to animals is almost zero.


Oh, my gosh.


So, um, dad, they always leave because you sell them. That's what you do. You're on a farm. That's what you do. And so the need to, you know, so she still does not grasp the idea that our dogs are one of our children. She can't get that. She's just like, you are a weird man. And so you do love a dog. I do love a dog, and I love babies and dogs.


I know.


That's what a lot of people don't know. Internet, y'all should know that Dave can be harsh. Dave can be harsh, but not to babysit, but when your dog is. Yeah, you came over when we had to put Nala down, and dad laid in the floor with our lab and cried before we put her down the night before me. You look.


You really are oversharing.


You do what? It's beautiful.


It's so great.


He loves, he does.


He loves my grand dog for ten years.


I know. It was terrible. So sad. Oh, losing a dog is terrible. Terrible, terrible. So we want you to be able to.


We're not animal haters at the point. Yeah, yeah. But sometimes you got to go, nah, 16 cats. Yeah, something's got to go, you know? And that's 15 of them. Yeah. Or 16 in the case of a.


Cat, but yeah, not cat people. But I don't know, maybe we can get there.


Oh, here we go. The hate. The hate's going to come pouring in. I love it. This is the Ramsey show retro cruise. Ramsay personality is my co host today. Open phones at triple eight eight two. Kayla is with us in Fort Worth, Texas. Hey, Kayla. Welcome to the Ramsey show.


Hi. Hi. Thanks for taking my call.


Sure. How can I help?


Well, my husband and I were trying to figure out how to increase our income so we can meet our monthly expenses and then also pay debt down. Kind of feel at a loss at the moment. So we total debt we have is about 37,000. We need about 7000 a month just to pay, meet our living expenses and then make minimum payments just on card balances.


Right now, my husband, $37,000.




You don't need $7,000 a month to do that. What in the world are your living expenses?


So we're just looking at the expenses, like paying the rent, just living, all of that, and then paying down debt. Just the expenses that we have, trying to.


How much, how much are the, do you know how much the minimum payments are? Not living expenses, just the debt payments.


The debt payments, they're really minimal right now. So we have the total credit card debt is 7004 of those are like 500 limits. One's 3002 are $1,000 limit. And those are about maxed out.


Okay, but how much money do you guys need to keep those current per month?


What's the minimum payments on your $37,000 worth of debt equal per month.


So for the card payments, it's just 650 a month minimum.




Then we have another six to 700 a month on a larger loan of 21,000.




And then, you know, just living expenses on top of that. And the car payments.


Okay, so wait a minute, it's only 28,000. You said you're $37,000.


How much is your car payment?


Car payment is 250 a month. We owe nine and it's worth about ten, five okay.




All right.


So, yeah, you're getting up to $2,000.


A month, covers your minimums, and you need $5,000 a month in addition to that to live.


3000? Yeah. How much is rent?


Rent is 26, 2600.




What's your household income?


That's. My husband just started a new job a month and a half ago. It's car sales and he just started. Last month he made 1400 total. And this month, halfway through, he's made 16 just in a half month. So he's doubled that, at least. And people keep telling him at work that come the third month, the back end stuff rolls in and that it should not be hard for him to do about 10,000 a month. And he works hard at it. He's there six days a week at least.


How much are you working, Kayla?


We have three kids at home, five and under. And the little bit I do is like 180 a month. It's just content writing. Yeah, it's not much.


So your problem is your husband started a new job and isn't making any money yet.




That's your real problem?


Yeah. They're like we're living on a prayer, waiting until it comes in.


What was he doing before?


Last year? He had quit his job of 17 years at Costco. He was working there as a supervisor. He quit the job after two or three years of calculating risks. We took out the 401K that he had built up from that to move here to Fort Worth and to start a business, a photography business that he had wanted to do. And he made sure there was about a year's worth of living expenses from that to live on, but nothing has come from it. So he went out and got a job a couple months ago to make sure, you know, we can get to the point where we can make the. You know, we didn't have any credit card debt at that point. He paid all of that off.


Is all the savings?


Yes. Yeah.


So the bottom line is, Kayla, you're terrified. This is pretty scary. You got little babies at home and no money to eat with.


Yeah, pretty much, yeah.


I'm sorry, hun. Um, and he's not a bad guy. He's out there working and trying. Nobody. Nobody's throwing him under the bus, but this is a scary situation.


Do you have family around, Kayla at Fort Worth?


No, they're actually back on the west coast where we moved.




Okay. Are you guys in a good church?






Yeah, we got connected really good.


Because you need good. You need good community around you while you turn this around. So what we need to say out loud, and he says it with you, too, is that I don't really care what the guys at work say. I care what actually happens. And so if he doesn't get his income up very rapidly at the car lot, he's going to be doing something else.


Yeah. And he's. That's a struggle. He was thinking of going back to Costco, but, like, right now, what he just made in this half month so far, that's about the same. Excuse me, that he was making before.




And, you know, and what it may look like, too, Kayla, is working nights and weekends and supplementing some of this. I mean, because even the margins of just living and you guys paying rent and eating and all of that, right. Regardless of paying off debt, just.


I'm not worried about you paying off debt right now. I'm worried about your rent.


So that's what I'm saying is I think that maybe for a transitional period, there's probably a reality that he's going to probably get a second job until. Which is the prayer that this 3rd, 4th month hits with his new job. And then you're able to say, okay, good. Now we have. We have a foundation under us, so. And this is what we can go for.


But two things that will help you with the level of fear, the terror rising up in your stomach, up into your throat. Okay. Thing number one is you need to carefully prioritize the money that you do have, and I'll do it for you right now. Are you ready? We call it the four walls. When you're in a crisis, and you're in a crisis, you got to keep the four walls of your house up. And that means first number one, food. Before you buy anything else, you buy groceries, not eating out. You guys can't afford to eat out?


Oh, yeah, we don't.


Before you do anything else, you buy groceries without guilt. It's your primary job. Before you do anything. The second thing you do is you keep the lights and the water on utilities. The third thing you do is you pay the rent.




Before you do anything, you do those three things. And I think you've got enough to pull those off already.




Okay. And that means. That means that some of the rest of this may not get paid this month because we made choices that of what was important versus what was less important. And then as we get on down through there, I'm going to pay a car payment because I need transportation. But Mastercard and student loans and protecting my credit are not on the list of things I worry about when I'm in your situation, okay. You're just going to get behind with them. If something has to be behind, choose the right thing to be behind, okay? And that's called unsecured debt. That's what you're the right thing is. And it's a bunch of other miscellaneous crap that's in your life that you just go, we just can't do that because we bought food, lights, water, rent, car, food, shelter, transportation, clothing. You probably don't need any clothing. You're probably okay for a while, but you just get by. You just get by. You just get by. You just get by. And then his income comes up, or he changes jobs and his income comes up and we start to make moves on these other things later.


First catching up on anything that's behind and later doing that. But if you'll take care of food, shelter, clothing, transportation and utilities before you do anything else, your peace level will increase. I know I was in your situation once. Okay, then secondly, the thing that goes with that is to budget. And again, that's just on paper, on purpose. Use the everydollar app. Work with your husband. And both of you look at these numbers. Every night, we have enough for food. We have enough for lights and water. We're gonna pay the rent right here. I'll pay the car payment right there. And when you're looking at the plan and you're executing the plan, and for sure, ranked order of priority, it is going to give you peace. A lot more peace than you have right now. Because right now you've got chaos on top of shortage.


Yeah. And Kayla, stay on the line. Christian will pick up and we'll give you a everydollar premium code so that you can connect this to your checking account. And you guys free. And, yeah, for it to be real time, that's one of the best things that you guys can do.


You stay right on top of it. And you call us again if you need help. Hunt. This is the Ramsey show. Knock, knock.


Who's there?


Your taxes.


Well, actually, it's George, but you get the point. April 15 is the last day you can file your tax return or request a deadline extension. So head to Ramsay Smarttax and get this party started. Ramsay Smarttax gives you access to free chat and phone support and saves you up to 70% compared to the other guys. So filing your federal return is easy and affordable. Like less than $35 affordable. So go to smarttax. So when the deadline comes, knocking. You're resting easy. That's smarttax.


Everydollar is our world class budgeting app that helps you manage money the Ramsey way. It simply works wherever you are. IOS Android online, you can start every dollar for free and immediately see where you stand with your money. Get organized. If you're new to everydollar, we'll show you a long term financial roadmap. Track your net worth, debt free date, retirement date, baby steps, progress, and of course, help you keep up with your money. And we'll coach you along the way. Download the free app for iOS, Android or go to and get started on the desktop. George and Jade will be hosting a budgeting live stream on YouTube on the 11 April, and they will be answering the top questions we get around budgeting. How do I get started? Can a budget, can I budget and still enjoy life? Dealing with changes that come up through the month and how couples can budget together? Stay tuned for more details. If you have budgeting questions that you want answered on that live stream, feel free to do so. Just email them to


Dot okay, so one of the best parts I love hosting with you is the generational difference. Okay? You're like a classic boomer. I'm a millennial, and the generation below me is Gen Z. Okay.


Yeah, this I know.




Okay. Okay. So this, so that we're playing a game, Dave. Try not to make a face.


Try not to make a face. I don't play poker for a reason.


This came out in


Oh, brother.


In fact, we started off ready, ready, ready. One in four gen Z taxpayers say that they need a therapist now to deal with the stress of tax filing season. Additionally, 54% filing taxes of Gen Z. They were brought to tears. They were brought to tears in the past or expect to cry this year over taxes.


That's fabulous. So I got one.


It's trauma. It's got one word for you of realizing taxes. And they're, and this is something that goes to therapy. I love therapy.


I got one word for you, vote.


Oh, my gosh.


How do we turn this into that?


Well, I mean, where do you think taxes come from, the people you vote for? So try voting for somebody that don't like taxes.


Okay, yes. But regardless of party, you pay taxes.




Regardless of party, you pay taxes.


Oh, yeah, I know.




I've been doing it a while.


Sure, some higher than others, but never cried.


But we hadn't seen a therapist for it, but been doing it a while.


Anyways, we read that in a content meeting right before the show, and I just thought, like, oh, no, we're crying. Oh, no. I mean, the bar, you guys, it's so low.


Like, so low for what?


Cry, like the next generation, though. Like, seriously, if you just go to war and they do suck. Taxes are not fun.


Oh, I don't cry. I get angry.


But you can. But you can do this.


You can do this.


Okay, so for that, is it. Is it as a. From a boot, I'm even scared to ask, from a boomers opinion, a boomers perspective, is it. Is it that we haven't prepped every generation for what it looks like from, like, a workforce standpoint, the applications of being an adult? Like, is it that the reality hasn't been talked about or taught or, you know, what do we think that is for real, though? If one in four Gen Z said they have to go see a therapist because the amount of stress because attacks.


Final season, you know, there's a couple things possibilities there because we've got 1100 folks on our team, and the vast majority of the people in this building are Gen Z.


It's a lot of young people. I'm millennials, and. Millennials, yeah, we have a young team.


You know, there's a few xers and a very few boomers in the building. Okay. And so it's a, it's a. We've got a crew of these kind of people. And honestly, the people that work here aren't crying or seeing a therapist over their taxes. So I'm calling b's on the survey to start with.


Oh, you're going to the source?


I think. I think. I think that these two generations have more tough people in them than that survey indicates. That survey says the entire generation is a bunch of wusses. And that's just not true. That's not my experience with Gen Z. I don't. I find. I do find, and I've said this many times, and I said it on Fox last night, and it got all the hate people going again. But I was on Fox business yesterday afternoon, and so. But the millennials got trashed for being participation trophy, living in their mother's basement and all that crap, being, you know, avocado taste, toast latte drinking, you know, all that crap. And then some of that same kind of stuff is coming on to Gen Z. And I am not a. A hater of those two generations because my personal experience inside this building with the ones we have hired is quite different. And once the call here on the air, they call on the air, they're very mature, very serious, very focused, very missional. Now, I have observed on those two generations in particular that there's very little middle ground. They don't hang out in the middle.


They're either very serious, very missional, mature beyond their years, charge the gates of hell with a water pistol, or they absolutely suck. They're just horrible. Participation trophy, live in their mother's basement. Useless, entitled, arrogant brats. And so they're either the best or they're the worst. The ones that I. That we. And they're great to interview because they'll just come into the interview and go, you owe me. And I'm like, I owe you. Where the front door is, hit it. And the interviews over, or they come in and go, give me. Put me in, coach. I'll charge the gates. I want to do. I want to do work that matters, and Ramsey does work that matters, and I want to be part of this team. And they're really easy to interview because boomers come in, and they lie. They fake it. They act like they're one of. They act like they think you want. They don't care. They care so much what you think that they. They put on the chameleon. You know, it's. It's a donkey dressed up like a thoroughbred.


Yeah. Yeah.


And they make you think. But the Gen Z, they don't give a crap what you think. They just. They just is what they is. I love them. I think they're awesome.




Yeah. And so I don't believe that number. I don't think that. That three out of 475 percent of the Gen Z are so wussified that they're sitting in the floor sucking their thumb, crying over their taxes. I think that's CNBC bull crap.


Okay, well, there you go.


I just don't. Do you observe that with those generations?


I do think they're that weak. It's not a weakness.


It is.


I do think that the. I do think that, like, your generation and older, there. There was more of a mentality of, like, you pull yourself up by your bootstraps, you get to work, you shut up, you do the thing, and you just. You go, go, go where? The pendulum, I think, has swung so far in actually tapping into some level of emotional awareness and comfortable with, like, okay, what's really going on? You know, trauma in my past, I will go. I seek help, like, people.


You know what I mean?


Like, that's applauded.




So there's more of that, which I.


Think, yeah, that's different than I'm crying.


For doing my, some people see it as weakness, not necessary. But I do think that the emotional.


State keeps crying for doing your taxes is straight up weakness. I mean, that's not, that's just woost.


But I do think that. I do think that the emotional space. Right. Like even parenting, I'm a young parent and so, like, you hear the extremes of parenting and it's like, oh, well, are you sad about wearing a coat to school today? Tell me about yourself. You know, and it's this whole thing where you're like, you just gotta wear a coat. Like, so I do think that there is a level of where the emotions can drive a lot of things in life. More so than the boomer generation.


If you wanted to, if you wanted to buy into some of the rhetoric on the stereotypes, which I'm not sure I do, I just did good job of defending the generation, I think. Yeah, yeah. I didn't think CNBC, the thing that has been thrown at them that could be true is they've never really had a hard time. So they're not tough.


Yes, I would say that's fair.


And technology's done a lot of preaching and ranting lately about teach your kids to do hard things, let them get a callous, teach your kids to do.


Hard things and don't, don't be the bulldozer parent where you pave the way. So everything's easy.


And that is. Yeah. A helicopter followed by bulldozers, whatever it is. Yeah. Because helicopters we are sure now create snowflakes. We're positive.


And I think it's more the bulldozing parents that clear the way. So there is no hard day. Yeah, they don't have any level of it. Yeah.


We as parents, we love our children, we want to make a life good for them, but by not allowing them, not making, not putting them in situations where they learn to do hard things, they're not tough. And cause like, you gotta be a little tough sometimes.


And Gen Z is the first generation where these smartphones, like my generation, we at least had flip phones. Like, I remember flip phones like the technology progressed. But I do wonder too with that. But anyway.


Oh, I'm sure screens are at the, at the heart of most evil.


But I do want.


Yeah, I do wonder social media anyways.


Oh, interesting discussion. So I get to take.


But I like that you were like, I don't believe, I don't believe CNBC.


Believe that was, I mean, have we got the only 700 of them in the nation that are tough. I mean, you know, really? I don't believe that. I mean, we got. The people you and I work with every day are not any of that. They're great. No, they're great.


Yes. Yes.


This is the Ramsey show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. It's the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Open phones this hour, Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, co host of the ever popular smart money happy hour, and my daughter, number one best selling author. She's my co host. The phone numbers triple 8825-5225 and Maria is next. Maria is in Reno. Hi, Maria. How are you?


How are you?


Better than we deserve. What's up?


Well, first of all, it's a privilege to be able to ask this question, because my husband and I have been following your baby steps, and we did financial peace before we got married. So now we're stuck, though, because we went off script. So we started babies.


You're stuck because what?


We went off script, we were following all your baby steps, and then we kind of went, and there's no taxes.


You fell off the proverbial wagon.


Okay. So I'm hoping it wasn't a stupid decision, but anyways, it was good intentions. So we saved the 20% for a down payment. And at that time, just with family circumstances, we thought we would offer for my mom to come and find property with us with two homes and whatnot, and kind of get her out of her situation. And there was a variety of reasons that played into that. But just, you know, she could get out of debt, what, not pay for a house that she could live in without making payments and then be able to work and save for her retirement and whatnot.


So your mom and you went in, bought a house together.


So what we did was we found property with two homes, but it is one parcel, but there's two homes on it, and they both were fixer uppers. Still are. We're working on them. But at least where we're at the dilemma at this point is how do we legally kind of sort all this out? Because we bought it. It was kind of like green lights all the way, and we did counsel before we bought with a lawyer friend and some other friends of, like, can we make this work? Like, legally? How does. How will this all go down? And they're like, yeah, we can sort it all out. So we felt like we had green light, and then we found this property and whatnot. But we went in, she went in 25% of the purchase price. We went in 75%. We're all on title, but now we're just trying to figure out how to legally kind of sort this out. What's going and who's trust. How do we really figure out percentage of ownership? Like, ideally, she feels like for her retirement consideration, she should keep a stake in real estate. The advice my husband and I received was buy her out and get her off title.


It would be much simpler. And so we're kind of just, like, scratching our heads. It seems simple and, like, positive. Like, we could figure this out going in, and now it just kind of seems muddy to us.


So what you're saying is the counsel that you received sucked.


Well, it sucks.


It did. Whoever this lawyer is, you're gonna stay away from him. He's stupid. Yeah, we'll figure it out later. That's a dumb butt plan, okay. Because you got yourself in a pinch now. You know, it's. You got a mess, you got a relational mess, you got a legal mess, and you got a real estate mess, and you got two houses under construction.


Yes, we do.


This is chaos and stress everywhere around it. Oh, my lord. What a mess. Yeah. Buy her out. That's the cleanest.


Okay, so. But if you were her, or if you were giving her advice, I guess.


I would take the money that. And go buy me something.


Like, you would leave.


Yeah, essentially, yeah.


Okay. Just long term considerations.


Yeah. Because she's in a mess with her daughter. It's a mess. Who wants to be in a mess? Ain't gonna clean up either. The only possible thing you can do, and I have no idea if you can pull this off in Reno, California, or not, but check with the city and see if you can subdivide the parcel and run a lot line between them. Have two parcels, and then you could just deed her. Her half, and she owns it.




And that way, you lost some money, but you kind of deserve to.


No, I mean, that is kind of why. Like, let's. Let's figure this out now, because if we have some sunk costs, we need to just swallow it and move on, but.


Exactly. Exactly.




Yeah. I'm serious. I mean, I don't want to hurt your mom, and. You don't want to hurt your mom. And, you know, if. If you want. If you buy her out and she let her stay there, you're going to have to have some clear family relational boundaries as to what the. You know, you're just going to let her live there free the rest of her life. What's the plan? That's part of the buyout. I mean, you got to. You got to lay out the terms of the buyout. See, what you all didn't do is you. You violated the begin with the end in mind principle. And that means you have to write out everything and every possible negative scenario ahead of time and have exit strategies on everything before you do the deal. Now, instead, you're trying to un ring the bell.




And it's very difficult to do that. And so without. Without a tearing, without people being hurt and, you know, because everybody, everybody in the whole thing's got a bunch of different expectations.




What's her.


What's her. What is she thinking in office? Is she concerned, or is it more you guys are concerned on your end?


Obviously in the threesome, it's probably just me because I'm more of a long term thinker.




They're all more like, we can figure this out when I'm wanting it done.


Now, like, all these people that keep saying, we can figure this out, when is it they're gonna do it since they didn't do it beforehand?


Right now. I hear you. I mean, we're. I'm on the call, right?


I'm not. I'm not. I mean, I'm not picking on you. I'm just saying the decision overall, you're aware before you called, is a mess.


And she's willing to do. I think she needs to take time to look into, like, just retirement planning in general.




But her first thought was, like, I need to keep a stake in real estate. But that wasn't, like, our thought going into it, that that was going to be her thought.


Yeah. So I would either subdivide the property and give her the half she lives on. And you have to get on a. With most cities and municipalities, you go before the zoning board and they approve a parcel, a change in parcel, one parcel into two, dividing it. And it'll have to do with the zoning in the area. Typically, you know, you're allowed to have so many square feet for a single family in that particular zone, it's an five reals, an two reals, or whatever, residential, whatever. And so then the zoning board will tell you, you have a surveyor come out, survey, draw a lot, a new lot line between the two houses and with setbacks and everything, and it's all set up with the city and approved. Boom. Then you deed it over to her. If that is not possible in the zoning situation you're sitting in, then I'd probably sell the whole property or buy her out one of the two. Because what you've got now is not going to end well, hon. You can smell it in the air and that's why you're calling. I'm sorry. I'm sorry you got yourself into this, but do please clean it up.


This is the Ramsey show.


Hey, guys, it's Rachel Cruz. And I'm beyond excited to tell you that my new kids book, I'm glad for where I am, is available for preorder. And there's more. When you pre order, you'll have access to a live event that I'm doing from my home. Storytime with Rachel. Join me as I read this news story about gratitude and the gift of home to you and your kids. Plus, we'll do a live q and a, so go to store and pre order your copy today. That's store.


Our event season is in full swing. We've got three big events on the books right now. The first one is our big dog, the total money makeover weekend here on the Ramsey campus May 10 and 11th, Friday evening and all day Saturday. It's a weekend long event and we're going to have everybody speaking. Rachel, of course, will be talking. I'll be talking George Camel, Jade, Ken is going to be talking about how to increase your income. Doctor Deloney, about how to increase your peace. Who am I leaving out? Somebody. So everybody's going to be there. All the Ramsey personalities. And when you leave, you will have a detailed plan on not just getting out of debt, but becoming wealthy. And we will have convinced your friend that thinks you're crazy. And when they leave, after coming with you for the weekend, they will also be crazy just like you. So you're going to be right on track. It's a two day event. It's the ultimate motivator to get fired up and to live the life you've always wanted. We're in Nashville May 10 and 11th. Great to visit this town anyway. And it is going to be a fabulous, fabulous weekend.


It is approaching a sellout. It's not sold out, but you can still get tickets, so you better get them now because it's only about a month away. Right? So events. And then a week and a half later, I'm going to be doing a two night event. George is going to help me called Dave Ramsey's investing essentials, where we go into the basics of investing. But we also are going to go beyond and do something I've never done and open my personal playbook on what I do with my personal investments. And that includes a detailed look on the second night in on real estate. I own several hundred million dollars worth of real estate. How did I do that? And how do I select real estate? What do I do? What's the process? This is not a TikTok seminar by some guy who wished he did it once. I've done it a bunch. It's my favorite thing, as a matter of fact. So come on and join us. We'd love to have you. It's a virtual event. You can get your tickets Events. And then you guys are doing this fabulous event. It's may 20.


I'm sorry. It's October 24 through the 26th. A true weekend long event. It's a big event. Marriage and money getaway here on campus at the Ramsey Event center, doctor John Deloney and Rachel Cruz. And this event, man, last year, people were completely changed.


Yeah. It was amazing.


Marriages were saved.


It's amazing the, when you come and I think with the mindset of, like, it's a getaway, right? You leave your kids, you come as a couple to a fun city like Nashville. And just, you know, in the mindset, too, of like, we want to grow, we want to be stretched, we want to learn. And so all of that together, and we have fun, John and I. It's a fun weekend.


You and John are funny, that's for sure.


And our spouses came last year and did a panel, so you never know if it'll happen again. I know.


Yeah. That's right. So, yeah, it's a really, tell you the truth now.


So it's a really fun weekend. And we sold out of base of, like, the top tier at the event last year. Like, it sold out before. So it's a, it's been a quick seller. So make sure to get your tickets.


Yeah. There's not hardly any left on it. And it's in October. So events for all three of those, and very proud to present all of those to you. Today's question comes from Grace in Colorado.


She says, I'm a stay at home mom with two small children, and I'm six months pregnant. My husband died suddenly last week. He handled all the finances. I lost touch with it when I got busy with the kids. I don't know if there's a will or life insurance. I don't know the password of his computer. Can you direct me to a checklist of how to get through this. I want to check the boxes, but I need guidance, so I'm not googling what to do every night. Goodness, man. Oh, Grace.


So I assume, James, that we have Grace's contact information. Of course, because it's obviously not a radio answer for something that's tragic and in depth. So what we will do, Grace, is we're going to hook you up with one of our Ramsey counselors, coaches that's been through our training. We're going to pay for it. It won't cost you a dime. They're going to meet with you and hold your hand and walk you through every bit of this. And they'll also connect you with Smartvestor Pro who can help guide you through the insurance issues. And if there's any investing to be done when all the smoke clears, so to speak. Yeah. Then we can figure out what we're doing here. But there's ways to discover. There's a database you can tap into to find out if life insurance exists. There's not to find out about a will, but we, you know, the coach can. The coach will even help you get with a computer specialist and see if we can get the stinking computer open. So. I'm so sorry, honey. What a horrible, horrible place to be left in. But you've got friends here and we will walk with you.


We are mandated by the book we believe in to take care of widows and orphans. And we will. We will. You can count on that.


So I stick, but for people listening, like, when it's a situation like this, though, for real, what's the like to even begin? Because in my head I'm like, yeah, you go down to like an it.


You know, first thing we try to do is get the computer open.




And hopefully that helps you find a will, if there is one, and find any. A life insurance professional can help you with the database. I can't remember the name of it off the top of my head, but there's a, there's a search you can do and it costs like $5 or.


Something to be able to go in.


And find, see if there's anything showing up on life insurance. Obviously, if there's any file drawers or any hard paper areas, you go through those and try to find wills and life insurance or anything, depending on the assets and the debt and so forth. You may need to contact an attorney and do a probate. You may not. He may not have left anything. Obviously, we've got to start taking the primary thing I hear right here is I've got to figure out how you're going to eat and feed children. A pregnant lady is going to feed two small kids in the, you know, next week. Yeah. Because I have no idea where money's coming from at this point. So I need to. I need to assess how much money we've got, where we've got it, where, how we can create some money, contact local church to come around you, make sure you got food. You know, we've got to do all these things and just put our arms around you and love you well. So there's so many things here, and.


If there is family, a lot of these situations, you end up just selling and going with me. You know, being with family as a.


Safety net, not as a permanent thing, but as a safety net to get. To get on your feet after this. But, yeah, googling Google probably can't help you, hun.


Mm hmm.


I don't think Mister Google is gonna send much love your way. So what this does illustrate, though, is why it's so important for couples to handle their money together, why it's so important to have a will with a central location where everyone knows where it is in the same place. We call it a legacy drawer. At our house, I've got a file drawer that's got all the wills and the trusts and the life insurance and the car titles and the so forth. All of my passcodes are in a system on my computer, and three family members, three people know where it is and they can all open it if something happens to me. So Sharon's not trapped out, and all the different 9 million. We've all got passwords to everything in the world, and so you gotta be able to access every bit of that. And so.


And it's even small things of, you know, what bills are automated, which ones are you paying directly? You know what I mean?


That's why you need to be involved in the process together. You should be handling your money together. And so I've got a friend in his seventies that just passed, and I'm walking with his wife, one of our best friends for some 40 or 50 years now. We've been friends, and she's very, very smart woman, but was not very involved in the day to day. And so she's having to learn how to do all of that at 70 years old now. You got to. It's, you know, it's the only way that it minimizes it. Having life insurance, having a will, having a game plan, working together is how you say, I love you. Not participating together is not how you say I love you. That's not, that's not right. And so it leaves people in the situation. This poor lady here, and I understand, I mean, she's pregnant, got two little babies. She didn't have time to mess with it. She couldn't breathe. She got, you know, the little, the littles take everything out of you when you got a situation like that. But still, it leaves you so vulnerable, and it's just sad. So we'll be with you, darling.


And you guys out there can know that Ramsey takes care of these situations when we run across them. That's for sure. 100% of the time. We have for 35 years of doing this, and we will continue to do that. And, yeah. Widows and orphans, this is the Ramsey show. Hey, teachers, let's be real. Your influence on students is massive. And during financial literacy month, we're celebrating you and all your hard work. We want to send you on a well deserved vacation. That's right. You've earned it. Heroes. This April, you can enter the Ramsey teacher appreciation giveaway sponsored by Ramsey Education. One teacher will win a $5,000 vacation to wherever they want to go, and two more teachers will each win a $3,000 vacation. There's no purchase necessary to win. The giveaway ends April 30, so enter now. And if you're a teacher, go to ramsey teacher. That's teacher Rachel Cruz. Ramsey personality, is my co host today. Hey, there's always, not always. Most days there's 50 to 200 folks out here watching the show. In the lobby of Ramsey solutions, we do this show from one to four central time Monday through Friday.


There's two Ramsey personalities. Usually I'm one of them. If I'm in town sitting here and answering your questions for 3 hours, we do a three hour talk radio show that turns into a YouTube show, turns into a podcast, all of these kinds of things. And we invite you to come in and hang out with us. It's completely free experience if you're visiting the Nashville area. We're just south of Nashville in a wonderful little town called Franklin, Tennessee, and little Civil War town classic southern square, the whole bit. And you can check it out if you're here checking out Nashville or something. And come by cookies. Homemade cookies are free. When you walk in, you smell mama's kitchen and the coffee is free and the entertainment is questionable. So come in and hang out with us in the lobby. We'd love to have you anytime. Here at Ramsey Solutions, we built this lobby for that experience when we built this building, it's designed for that. And part of it is the debt free stage. And on the debt free stages. Miss Katie. Hi, Katie. How are you?




How are you?


Better than I deserve. Where do you live?


I live in Dallas, Texas.


Very fun. And how much debt have you paid off, Katie?




I love it. And how long did that take you?


Just under twelve months.


Whoa. And your range of income during that time?


I started out making $29,000. A little more. And then this year, it shot up to $113,600.


Wow. What do you do for a living?


I'm a registered nurse.


So you've been working a lot? A lot, a lot. Did you just get out of nursing school?




So that's what started this whole thing.




My debt was entirely just a student loan from a one year nursing program.


Oh, my gosh.


And you paid off in one year?


In one year, you did it.


So you have lived on beans and rice.




These numbers are, I mean, like, you're the coupon queen. You have no life. All you did was work and pay debt.


I know.


I'd go bother people for their shifts or part of their shifts. My favorite was the 03:00 a.m. To 07:00 a.m. Because you got your overtime, you got weekend pay, you got the bonus pay. It was awesome.


Working around the clock. What kind of nurse are you?


I am a pediatric emergency room nurse.


Oh, wow.




Well, thank you. From a mom of three littles.




Good for you.


What a rewarding work. Pretty awesome and sometimes terrifying. But yeah, yeah. But yeah. Wow, look at you.


So what happened a year ago when you got out of nursing school?


Why'd you get so fired up, and how'd you get in touch with this Ramsay stuff?


So I was crazy and decided that was my second college degree. My first one my parents paid for shout out. And then I just wanted to be a nurse, and I wanted to be a nurse as fast as possible. And that required taking out a little bit of money. And then after I finished nursing school, I was introduced by my boyfriend Kyle. He would just start playing the podcast, like, when we'd be in the car, it was super, like, low key. Like, it was never, like, hey, I think you should do this. It was, oh, hey, we're gonna listen to the. Yeah, it's just background music. And then I got kind of interested, and then it became my, like, guilty pleasure. After work, I'd go home and sit in my bed after working night shift, and I'd put on the show before, and I'd work from home, my work from home job.


So you had two jobs?


Oh, yeah, tons. I did everything under the moon. Like, I was. I was ready to work. I knew nursing school, like, as hard as everyone says it was, I was ready to work harder. When I got out, I think the idea of, oh, my God, I just took out all this money, and I'm gonna have this payment for 20 years was so scary.


So very nice.


Good for you.


What was the most lucrative side hustle you did?


I was a big instacart girl.




That was. It was really awesome. We live a little bit north of, like, the Highland park area, and there's lots of people who like their groceries delivered there.


And you were there. Katie helped.


But the best thing of all, pay wise, was the 03:00 a.m. To 07:00 a.m., overtime, triple time, all that stuff, right?


Oh, yeah.


I'd work four, five, six days in a row. Like, at one point, my manager was like, are you okay? Slow down.


Good for you, Katie.


Like, don't work this much.


I'm like, I love it. Way to go. How's it feel to be free?


It's crazy. I would let my paycheck hit my account. I take care of just my basic four walls. I lived like I still was in college. I didn't buy anything, didn't really do anything. And then that same day, I drained my account to Sally Bay.


Mm hmm. And a big old chunk could go down every week, every month. Yeah.


That's crazy. And then all of a sudden, we got to the end, and I was like, what do I do with all this money? Can I stop working as hard?


Yeah, that's right. That's right. Good for you. Okay, so what was the hardest part? Cause I'm like, that's a full year. Twelve months of just doing this, getting it.


I think the hardest part was watching everyone else. Just a lot of my friends at work would buy new cars, or people would come in with new things. They'd go out, and I was like, oh. Like, that'd be really fun, but, like, that's not for me. Like, it's hard.


Not yet.


Yeah, not yet. It was hard. I think really just the hardest part was kind of watching the world go on.




So was that harder at the beginning or the end?


I'd say probably about the middle, because I.


Beginning. You're all fired up.


Yeah, I was an end.


You can see the light.




But in the middle, it's like I'm stuck.




And it was, it was like summer ish and everybody was doing all these fun things, and I was like, I gotta go pick up another shift. I gotta go deliver some groceries.


I gotta keep on my track here.


Okay. So would you tell people, Katie? Cause a lot of people, you know, their, their journey of getting out of debt looks so different.




And someone listening, that's thinking, okay, I wanna dive in. I wanna do this. Would you recommend if they have the ability, like, you just go full force, short amount of time, all the pain, but it's short. Or like, you could spread this out for 24 months and it's less pain, but it's gonna take a little bit longer.


Um, I've always been like a super go getter, so, I mean, as long as you mark a clear finish line, guns blazing, let's go.


She's a rip the band aid off girl. Yeah, we don't, we don't. Yeah, you don't want her being your nurse if there's a band aid involved. Yeah, it's like pop. Yeah. Oh, sorry about that. Yeah, we're done.


It's pretty true.


That's so great. I love it. Who was your biggest cheerleaders?


My biggest cheerleader by far was my boyfriend Kyle.


Where is he? Is he here?


He's over here.


Oh, there you are.




Hi, Kyle.


Hi, Kyle. We love Katie.


And then all my family that's here.


Oh, you brought your family too? So they're all super proud of you too, then. Very good. Anybody tell you you're crazy while you're doing it?


Most of the nurses I know.


Well, it's kind of a stark contrast for them to have to stand next to you. Yeah, they're going, I'm standing neck deep in my stupid and doing nothing about it. And this girl's cleaning it up, but it's a little bit shaming just having you around. You're amazing.


You are a warrior princess and you're making like 113. I mean, I guess that's with some of the side hustles. So you like, did some of that, but as a nurse. But I'm like, you're, you're gonna make great money. No payments.


There's lots of money if you want to go after it.


That's right. That's right. Good for you, Katie. How old are you?


25. I did it. My goal was my 25th birthday and I was like ten days early.








So great.


Hey, you're a hero. We're proud of you. Well done, kiddo. Very, very, very well done. You're a warrior princess. That's pretty amazing. Good stuff, man. Good stuff. Don't get in this girl's way. Wow. Wow. Just get after it. Get it. She's living proof. My granny's saying is true. There's a great place to go when you're broke to work. Oh, my gosh. Wow. Fabulously done. All right. It's Katie from Dallas. 81,000 paid off in twelve months. Starting at 29 when she got out of school. All the way to 113. And the secret sauce. Work. Count it down. Oh, we've got a couple of every dollar coupons for you to give you a one year subscription. And you can give one away to a friend. One of those nurses needs a subscription. There we go. Count it down. Let's hear your debt free scream.


All right. Three, two, one.


I'm done for.


This is how it's done, boys and girls. I love it. Yes. Yes. The family is cheering. This is the Ramsay show, our scripture today. First, John 514. This is the confidence we have in approaching God. That if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. Vince Lombardi said, confidence is contagious. So is lack of confidence. Laura is with us in St. Louis. Hi, Laura. Welcome to the Ramsey show.


Hi. Thank you for taking my call. I'll just get straight to my question. So we just found out that our tax person has done our taxes incorrectly the past three years. So we owe back taxes. We are on baby step two. So we don't have a ton of money. And we are debating on whether or not we should take out a personal loan to cover this or if we should set up a payment plan with the IR's.


Take out a personal loan.




The worst creditor on the planet is the IR's. They have almost unlimited power. They misuse it and abuse it. They charge the highest penalties and the highest interest. They're not bankruptible. Personal loans are none of those.


Okay. All right. That's what I figured you today. I just wanted to make sure. Can I ask a follow up question?


Yeah, let me ask one. How the crap did you not know your taxes were screwed up for three years?


So. My husband is a pastor, and we assumed they were doing the his taxes correctly because they're, they're different. And we just assumed they knew what they were doing.


And how did you find it?


They discovered it. That we had said something about his portion of the taxes this year. We had said it the first year, and they must have missed it. And yeah. I don't know. It was the cluster.


Yeah. Wow. Wow. Okay, so you think you've got it solved, or do you need a new tax person?


No, I think they've got it figured out. Yeah, I hope so. Yeah. We're looking at about 18,000, I think, in back taxes.


That's enough to make me get somebody.


I was about to say get a second opinion. Laura, too. It'd be worth it to pay somebody else. Just to make sure all your bases are covered.


Yeah. Well, the benefit of them was they were free, but worth every dime.


And they were worth every penny. Yeah. Oh, gosh, no.


They're the nicest people, though.


A lot of stupid people are.


It happens.




Okay. My follow up question, though. Should we go through our bank?


Let me tell you that. What's even worse, they go to your church.




Okay. Yeah, that's. That's even worse. Yeah. Get a new tax person. Okay. Anyway, how can I help? What's the other question?


Should we go through our bank? We have us bank for that. We bank with.


Should we go through a credit union.


Instead or through our bank? What would be better, do you think?


Credit union.


Credit union. Okay.


In general. In general, they're more human. Now, a small town local bank is fine, but a credit union versus a big bank, we don't ever recommend anyone do business with the mega banks. The bank of America is the fifth thirds. They have no souls. And your credit union's got a soul. Your small town local bank's got a soul. Yes, they're bankers, but there's a human element to them. You're not just a number like you are with these other banks.


When does the point with IR's debt, would you say to go take out a personal loan versus trying to pay it off?


Always. Unless you can write a check right now and pay it. I would not have IR's debt versus personal debt always, because they're just. They're unpredictable, too, because they're incompetent, and so they're liable to do something they're not supposed to do, like go just clean out their account or something.


Yeah. Yeah.


And they don't usually do that, but I've run into it over the years, so. And they have. And there's nothing that you don't have any recourse because they're just. They have unlimited power. Every other debt has to sue you before they start taking stuff. The IR's just shows up and starts taking stuff. And so it's just. It's brutal.




And. And then on the other side of it, they've owed me a refund for four years. I can't get out of them. I'm gonna have to go before Congress to get my refund. So it's unbelievable. And it's not a refund because I overpaid. It's a refund because the law changed and we adjusted our taxes. And then they're just sitting on it under the Biden administration, we got all our refunds under the Trump administration on the same thing. Thing. But the Biden bunch is just sitting on it over there, and it's. Yeah. Okay. All right. Tracy's with us in New York City. Hi, Tracy. How are you?


Good, thank you. Thank you so very much for taking my call.


Sure. How can I help?


I'm 51 years old, and unfortunately, I just heard about you, like, a week ago through a friend, and she told me to give you all a call. I need help with my retirement. I only have $100,000 in there, and my job. They doesn't match. They don't do matching.


Okay, what do you make?


103. But I take care of a sibling who's bipolar and deals with a lot of issues.


Do you have debt, Tracy?




How much that do you have?


Oh, I'm sorry. The only debt that I have is my condo, and I owe 200,000.




Originally, when I got it, the interest rate was, like, 4.89, but I was able to refinance it when the rates went down. So my rate now was two something. So instead of lowering my payment, I just kept it at the same payment that I was paying.


Gotcha. Yeah. I mean, at this point, Tracy, I. I would be funding 15% of your income into retirement. I would get to a point where I'm throwing as much as I can to get your. To get this condo paid off. So you have paid for real estate. You're still funding, and you're.


I mean, you're.


You have $100,000. I mean, you have a really great start. Some people that call in have nothing, save for retirement, so at least there's something there. And then who. And you said it's a sibling that you take care of?




And how old are they?


He's 32. 32.


Does he live with you?


No. That did not work out very well.


Yes. Yeah, I would assume so.


Yeah. So Rachel's right. What we teach is a process called the baby steps. You need an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses. Since you're debt free, other than the house, then you need to be putting 15% of your income, $15,000 a year, $16,000 a year into your retirement plan, getting all the match. It should be in Roth, if it can be. If you're. If you max out your four hundred one k at work, which you shouldn't be doing. But if you do, and you need to do more, you can do a Roth with one of our smartvestor pros. But you need to get to $16,000 a year. Everything else beyond $16,000 a year that you have left in your budget should go to pay off your condo early.




Quick as you get the condo paid off, I want you to max out all retirement. Because our goal here is sometime in the next 15 years, when you're 66, I want the condo paid off and a huge pile of money in your nest egg.




I think you're going to be a millionaire.


I hope so.


I think you are. If you will do what I just told you to do, I think you're going to be a millionaire.


Okay. Awesome. Thank you. Thank you so much.


You're very smart and you're very kind to take care of the sibling the way you are. Good work. Very good work. And it's just a reminder for the rest of you out there, Rachel, that it is amazing that as we studied 10,000 millionaires, we found that the typical millionaire, out of the 10,000, which is almost all of them, like 80 something percent, fell in this category. They had funded their 401 ks and their roths steadily in good growth stock mutual funds, and they paid off their house. And so a very typical scenario would be we'd have a 600, $700,000 paid for house, and you'd have a six or seven or an $800,000 nest egg that was built, and that's where, exactly where she's going to be. And, you know, and so if you put, you know, like seven and eight together, you've got $1.5 million net worth. And so $700,000 paid for house and a $800,000 nest egg. And that's about where she's headed with the number she just gave us.




And her company didn't match. And so our. The 15%, even if your company does match, does not include the employer's match.




So it's 50% of your money.


Of your money. That's a valid point. Very good. But my, but the big deal is, is that you can do it. That's. Everybody says, oh, well, you know, the economy and the Biden and the, and the Trump and the world, and it's just bad. And capitalism's evil, and we need anarchy and socialism and communism, like my college professor taught me and all this bull crap out there. And you know, the truth is, the little man is getting ahead at a faster rate, a better rate in the United States of America than at any country, in any culture, in any time in the history of man. You have a better opportunity, opportunity today than you've ever had. So stop your whining and go do it. Get after it. That puts us hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace. Christ Jesus.


Hey, guys.


I'm Rachel.


And I'm George.


And you've probably heard our voices before on the Ramsay show.


And do we have a surprise for you.


Yep, we have our very own show, smart money happy hour, where we talk about pop culture, current events, and, of course, money. George, it's a great show. And what else do we talk about?


So much, Rachel. Not enough. And yet too much. We talk about guilt tipping, because tipping is out of control, and I won't stand for it anymore, which is why I'm sitting.


I'm glad you were taking such a stand.


And we also talk about something else I'm passionate about. Disney adults. Oh, George, why is it a thing?




Some adults still find the magic.


Sure. We also talk about toxic money traits and girl math. And if you don't know what those are, you have to listen to the podcast.


Yeah, there's a lot there.


You guys.


It's pretty fun.


We keep you relevant is what I'm trying to say.


We help you out.


So pull up a chair to the happy hour you wish your friends were having. We promise you won't regret it. And if you don't have friends, we'll be your friends.


We will. We're great friends. So make sure to check it out on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or the Ramsey network. Apple.