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We are all wired to serve naturally as children, as kids, as people, as humans, service is also serving through your calling, your talents, your skills, your purpose that benefits other people. But we've been educated for greed. When I was 18, I met people who are beautiful. I've met people who are rich. I've met people who are strong. I met people who are powerful. But I don't think I'd ever met anyone who was truly happy.


But because I met these incredibly powerful people who wanted nothing from me but just to give it change my life, and that's the opportunity I want. And for people, it may not be a monk, but when you think like a monk, you recognize that I actually am I exposing myself to as many alternative methods of thought. Am I really allowing myself to experience everything the world has to offer? Because if I'm not, I'm already limiting myself in a world that's actually unlimited.


And that's the challenge I see is that we are living at a time when you have the most choice available, you have the most experiences available. But we still put ourselves in these prisons and there's a seat with your name on it. In the theater of happiness, there are an infinite number of seats. And just because I'm already in there doesn't mean you can't be in there just because you're in. That is mean. I can't be in there.


And as soon as you realize that you free yourself from realizing there is a seat with your name on it and all you've got to do is climb your own seat and no one else can take that seat from you. That's Jerry. And this is Episode 544 of the Control podcast.


The Rich Roll podcast reading spiritual voyageurs My name is Rich Roll. Yes, indeed, I am your pilot for today's podcast Adventure and Experience that has brought to you today by native deodorant that is good for the planet and good for my body, keeping me stink free all day without any of those pesky toxic additives. If you listen to my last role on episode, I just realized there's a deodorant pun in there. In any event, then you know that I'm really trying to eliminate single use plastic from my life.


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That's native dō dotcom slash roll or use promo code. Roll a check out for twenty percent off your first order. And if we're going to talk about awesome sustainable products, then I gotta also shout out out or noun founded by somebody I greatly admire. I'm talking to you, Kelly Slater. Outr Non makes a wide variety of really damn good looking clothes that fit well, are super durable and good for the planet too. It really is this incredible, laudable mission to bust the toxic and wasteful fast fashion grip for good by crafting killer duds that last and don't harm the environment and the process, from only working with factories that pay fair living wages and provide safe working conditions to using organic cotton, which conserves 90 percent more water than conventional, to using solar powered factories that also harvest rainwater to finally, literally making buttons out of recycled ocean plastics.


The list goes on and on. It's beyond impressive the detail these guys have when it comes to making sustainable clothes. Their jeans are by far my favorite, made in the cleanest denim factory in the world. But lately I've been rocking the board shorts because, as I told you, it's 114 degrees out. And, you know, Malibu go to, I don't know, dotcom today and enter my code. Rich, roll a check out and you'll get 25 percent off your full price order.


That's our known dotcom, but PRK and then dotcom. And remember to use my code rich role at checkout for 25 percent off. Check him out today. I don't know Dotcom. And don't forget to use the promo code. Rich roll for twenty five percent off. And finally, I'm excited to get the early word out on a new podcast. I think you guys are going to really dig for my good buddies at. Yes. Theory and head space.


If you've never heard of Yes theory, you guys are in for a major treat. There is a lot of nonsense on YouTube, but a couple of years ago, I stumbled upon these three super positive young guys from Montreal, Thomas, Matt and Amar'e, who created this amazing channel to challenge each other, to grow and evolve and thrive by undertaking adventures way outside their comfort zone by quote unquote, seeking discomfort and sharing it all on YouTube. They were the guys who got Will Smith to bungee jump out of a helicopter for his fiftieth birthday.


A lot of you guys probably saw that. They also made this incredible documentary about their experience doing Wim Hof's retreat in Poland. And when Matt decided to do his first half Ironman a couple of years ago, he invited me to participate in the video they created to chronicle it, which was a great honor. And I've been friends with these guys ever since. Everything they do is super high vibe. It's inspirational, it's uplifting with incredible production value. And now they're turning off the cameras and turning on the mikes to reflect upon how discomfort might actually hold the keys to meaning and happiness.


You don't have to convince me much like this show. They explore topics like meditation, ego, vulnerability, kindness, how to cultivate a life of meaning and spoiler, I just might be one of our first guests. The show launches everywhere, September 7th. Check it out on Apple podcasts or wherever you find your find podcast, wherever you're listening to this right now. Speaking of gas, in the last episode, we went deep with an actual monk, Rodney Goswami.


And today we extend this exploration by convening with a former monk. His name is Jay Chetty. And given that he has amassed a social media following in excess of 20 million people, I wouldn't be surprised if that name rings a bell. A cultural social media luminary with a knack for sharing wisdom that goes viral. I suspect that at some point you've watched one of his many 400 plus videos, which, all told have surpassed more than seven billion views, making him one of the most viewed people on the entire Internet.


Jay's been named one of Forbes magazine's 30 under 30. He's delivered keynotes at places like Google, Microsoft and Facebook. He's the host of the popular On Purpose podcast. And the occasion for today's conversation is Jay's new book, Think Like a Monk, in which he basically distills the timeless wisdom that he's learned over the course of his life, during his tenure as a annunciate and translated it into practical tools that we can all use to live a less anxious and more meaningful life.


I should mention that this one was taped pre pandemic over six months ago, way back in early March, when we were still doing the show out of my house and the world was a very different place. covid pushed back the release of Jay's book, so I agreed to hold on sharing this one until that date. And that date has now arrived. And so now you shall have it. We talk about what led him to India, life on an ashram and why he returned.


We discuss meditation. Jay is a guy who meditates two hours a day every single day. Talk mindfulness conscious capitalism, the double edged sword of social media, how to use it for good, how to live a life of greater meaning, purpose and service and many other subjects. I really enjoyed this one. It's packed with plenty of practical takeaways that I think can upgrade your perception of reality and thus the quality of your daily life experience. So here we go.


This is me and Jay Z. And cannot Mistick is in the house, a favorite phrase of mine coined by her friend Russell. Yes, absolutely. Russell has a lot of names than he does over the years.


He seems to come up with them relatively spontaneously.


Yeah, he does. He does. I mean, that's who he is, right? He's one of the worst. It's in one of the most spontaneous people I've ever met. I know that is. And he's great. Welcome. Great to have you here. Thanks for driving all the way out here. Spent a long time in the works. It's my pleasure. I'm so grateful to be out here, Rich. I know we've become recent friends and I'm excited.


I'm excited to bond more and get to do this likewise two times in like two weeks because I was at did your show the other day. So this is great. We're on the precipice of your book coming out, which will be our when this comes out, which has got to be an exciting time for you.


It is one I feel like every year I try and do a new first and this time it's the book. And yeah, it's like I get all the nerves, I get anxious and in a good way I love it.


It's cool in preparation for eight hours poking around the Internet. And, you know, I've been following you for some time, but just trying to get up to speed. And I got to tell you, I'm falling in love with your wife. She's she's adorable.


So, you know, I guess I literally said this is the story of my life.


Basically, people like me to some degree, I hope they spend time with me and then I introduce them to my wife and then they go, oh, and then it's over.


Yeah. Literally, no one ever wants to see me ever again. It happens all the time. So now my wife. Yeah. And she's amazing. Like we talked about it with your wife too. And it's my wife is amazing. She's incredible. I, I'm not surprised that people love her more than me. We both upgraded, which I feel good about. You know, I'm happy to be with someone who's better than me.


It's it's a blessing. Yeah. Yeah. I've had that experience many times over. We do this. I was telling you earlier, we do this retreat every year in Italy and people show up from all over the place, you know. Forty people for this week long experience and most of them arrive under the this idea that they're going to like go trail running with me and they're going to learn about plant based cooking and maybe do a lot of little meditation is going to be fine.


Like expectations are low and then it becomes like a whole Julee experience.


Like I didn't know that we were going to get this and then they all fall in love with her.


And I become very secondary to the entire experience.


So we've got a lot in common. They've got a lot in common. It's the plant based thing. I read all this stuff.


Yeah, it's great. It's cool. Yeah. No, my wife is she's a real she's a real, genuinely powerful soul. Yeah. She does everything from my heart and she's always been that way.


And you guys have been together for a long time now.


We've been together for seven years, we've been married for four years and we just feel like we've got stronger and stronger. It's been really interesting for us because our life literally turned on. It had turned on its head when when my career really started to take off.


And so in 2016, we I moved job three times. We moved country, we bought a house, put it on rent, found an apartment to rent and got married all in the same year.


And it's a lot it was a it was a lot, but it was also a lot of bonding together and forming. And I think we had a moment where I think it could have gone either way, like it literally could have broke us or it could have made us. And thankfully, because of how she is and now I am and what we both wanted from our relationship, we we've we've really been able to build something special. But, you know, it's it's taken a lot of work.


And that was definitely a tough time. Yeah, I have no doubt. I mean, I think that level of change could easily and most likely splits apart most couples, especially when one person in the relationship suddenly goes on a crazy trajectory that isn't like that doesn't where the other person isn't kind of in a in a parody type situation, you know, and without, you know, a lot of relationship skills and communication that ends up, you know, planting the seeds of of, you know, the demise of many a relationship.


Yeah, exactly. And, you know, we had our tough times. Like, I remember knowing that every time I went out to work that my wife was at home, my new wife, like, is in my, you know, very new in terms of time. She's at home crying because she's just been moved away from her family and her home.


And you're off like in your bliss. Totally.


I'm trying to follow my bliss, as Joseph Campbell would say, and just like trying to build my purpose. But in the back of my mind, I'm feeling the pain of the fact that I'm like my wife does have any friends here. We don't have any family in New York. We don't have a community here. Like we're feeling that gap. And then me trying to play both roles and wanting to I used to set up on these dates so I would literally set up on dates with women that I'd met that I thought would get along with her.


And she said, why? You keep trying to set me up on dates with women? But it was just I was trying so hard and I really made it my priority that she became my priority.


I was like, if she's not happy here, if she doesn't feel like this is our home, if she doesn't feel satisfied here, then it doesn't matter what happens with my partner.


So I would say she actually became my top priority. When we lived in New York and when we moved to L.A., it's actually been the opposite, where she loves L.A. and has made the best friends of her life and has an incredible community around her. Yes. And and I haven't had to have that. Whereas in New York, I really felt that sense of pressure to to help her feel at home.


It's interesting because usually it's the other way around. New York is a place that feels easier to get socially acclimated than L.A. I think L.A. can be an incredibly lonely place. Interesting. When you arrive and you're new and you don't have a community because everybody is so dispersed and in their cars, it's just not as spontaneous as New York or or it's difficult to connect. I mean, I think the onus is on the individual to really make something happen.


Yeah, I think we were lucky.


We had we had a couple of friends here who really opened us up to their world and their friends, and that led to us making friends, but also just I found in New York and I guess it also depends where you are in your career and in all of that kind of stuff, too. But I felt like in New York people I came late to meetings and left early and always had 30 minutes to see me.


And also one of this was the biggest one. And this is huge. It's a weird one. But when you think about it, really, it really resonates. People in L.A. have homes or they have larger apartments. And so people invite you to their home like today were in your home and you have a beautiful home.


And when people come to your home, you end up spending more time with them. So I remember the first weekend we came here, my friend threw a party and we went out and we spent eight hours with someone. Right. And I was like, well, we just spent eight hours with. So I know it's been eight hours.


Yeah. If you're in New York, you'd be I mean, you'd meet at a bar, a restaurant, totally. And I think that's a bump and run. And I think that's a big thing about it. I think when you meet people in their homes, when you meet people in their genuine natural habitats and environments, I feel like you get an opportunity to really see them and and they feel exposed in a genuine, natural, vulnerable way to you as well.


Yeah, that's part of the reason why I like doing the podcast at my house. Yeah. I like having people over. And I have this theory that each person that arrives and spends time here deposits this place with their wisdom and their operation and it just elevates, you know, the whole experience of living here. That's beautiful. It's like it's like a deposit. You must be very careful about who you allow it.


Yeah, I'm glad that I snuck in this while I try to, you know, I try to be mindful of that. Yeah.


I've been holding on to your crystals ever since to make sure I don't. Yeah.


So when I when I take a 10000 foot view of who you are and what you do, it it seems to me that you're your gift or you're your real facility.


Is this ability, this facility for taking ageless wisdom, these spiritual precepts, these philosophical tenets and ideas and translating them in an entertaining way and a digestible way for a very broad mainstream and and perhaps young, you know, audience?


That fair sounds good to me. Yeah, no, it's you know, it's there was there's a statement by Albert Einstein, which kind of underpins all my work. And it's if you can't explain something simply, you don't understand it well enough.


And when I was exposed to Devadas and all these spiritual text that some of them date 5000 years back, I was reading them and I was like, there is magic in these texts, like there is so much energy in these texts, there's so much weight and gravitas and there's so much power.


But guess what? Most people will never be able to experience it because it's in another language. You want to see another language.


I don't just mean Sanskrit or Hindi or, you know, and, you know, Chinese. I mean another language of it speaking to a different age. And there's beauty in that. And I love that and I appreciate that. But I could see that I wanted to try and see if I could explain these things to people that I grew up with. And I was always connecting with the person who grew up in London. You know, I'm a born and raised in London.


I grew up liking anything in average Londoners into. But I got so fascinated because of the way the philosophy was presented to me and I felt a responsibility to want to do that for others. So, yeah, I think that's a that's a pretty good break down and 10000 foot view. And and I and I appreciate you saying that because that's what fascinates me. That's where I get my buzz from, is how do I read, study and learn so that I can share support and serve.


And that's that's where I get my my meeting from. Yeah. I mean, crystalizing these texts down to these kernels of wisdom are teachable moments is no small thing. I mean, if you, you know, if you read the Bhagavad Gita, I mean, it takes a prodigious mind to just keep track of all the characters. Like these stories are insane, you know? So it's like, all right, you know, Arjuna is doing this.


You know, so-and-so is over there. Do spirit, you know, killing these people. And what's the lesson that I'm supposed to get?


I'll have to send you. When I when I studied it, I made a family tree. So I literally had to physically for anyone who doesn't know what we're doing, what we're doing at the Buggered Geeta, which is part of the Mahabharat. And there are. Characters and I remember having to not literally, but I remember having to literally piece together the family tree because I was the same, I couldn't. And and the messages are so profound and so powerful and, you know, yeah, it's it's it's it's a blessing to be even be able to be exposed to them, let alone trying to share them.


Well, let's take it back. Tell me about, you know, what it was like being a kid growing up in London. North London. Yeah, north of London.


So I grew up in the most common place that people would know is a place called Tottenham. More specifically, you know. Yeah, North London for anyone who doesn't know. And I grew up as a you know, I was very obedient kid growing up, especially in my up to 14 years old. I was very I would say I worked very hard at school. I was a good son. I followed the rules. I was very overweight at that time as well.


So I got bullied a lot. So I was bullied for my weight. I was probably one of the few Indian kids at school, so I was bullied for being Indian and parents.


First generation. Yes, yeah.


And and I just was very fortunate because I guess it was a mixture of love at home, but also resilience. I never really felt that affected by any of it.


I just I kind of accepted it as normal. I didn't see myself as different. I was just like, this is just what kids must go through. And I kind of got it. And then at 14, it kind of switched when I was like, well, being good doesn't work.


Like, it doesn't add up to anything. I'm not happy. It doesn't make me more successful. I still experience racism and bullying, so I might as well be a jerk like and I don't mean a jerk as a bad person to people.


I mean like I might as well not follow the rules. I might as well experiment with everything else, whether it was getting drunk or whether it was, you know, experimenting with smoking or weed or whatever it was at the time and just feeling like I wanted a thrill and an experience in life. And that being good didn't stack up to what I was told. I was told if you were good that you'd be successful and things would work. And I didn't feel that.


So I kind of see you have a conscious memory of making that decision. What's the meaning at some point when you were 14 thinking like, I'm going to change tack here? I don't know.


That's a good question. I don't know if it was conscious in the sense I was like, oh, this is not working. Let me try this. It wasn't like that. In hindsight, I can see my reasoning behind why. Because people are like I've always considered myself to be a well-intentioned, good person.


Like that's that's who I am at the heart and the core of it. I could never hurt anyone. It's not who I am.


And so it's it was weird when I when I got involved in the wrong circles and I started doing things I can never imagine and I became the opposite. And when I reflect on that, that's what I feel is the reason.


So, no, I don't think it is a conscious decision at the time. But when I reflect on it in hindsight, it was very clear to me that that was the reason that brought it out.


Right. So you're getting into a little bit of trouble, but not too much trouble. You're still, you know.


Are you the eldest son? I'm the eldest son. Is this for certain mantle that you have to carry? Yeah, a certain level of expectation and and, you know, academic prowess that you have to demonstrate to your parents to remain in good stead.


Yeah, and I did good at that because my my parents, you know, Indian parents are generally like, if you do well in school, that's all that matters.


And so I kind of took that too literally. I was like, OK, as long as I'm doing well in school, I can do anything I want. So I was performing well in school, but I started to really when I was fourteen, really dive into what I was fascinated by. And I found that there were three subjects that really took my attention. So it was economics, art and design and philosophy. And those became my three favorite subjects in school.


And it was very different to what my parents wanted or what I thought at primary school, where the maths and sciences were more stressed. But I started to see that I was connecting.


I would talk to my art teacher for hours about different art that we would, you know, dissect together and think about why the artist had juxtaposed, though, to those two items like that and the meaning behind certain and brushes and strokes. And I loved, like breaking something down philosophically. And I really owe my art teacher a lot for that because he he made me gain that taste for questioning why things were the way they were rather than just accepting them at face value.


Yeah, but that seed kind of was under germinated. It seems like finance originally kind of won out in that in that race war.


I would say that I thought that I would go off and do graphic design or marketing at university or I really was about to apply. Remember Central St. Martin's, which is an incredible art school in London. And I remember it's funny you say that because I remember applying it to my art teacher. I think messaging me or saying to me at the time, however we did at that time, I can't even remember. But I guess emailing me and saying, oh, you're so right.


And it's like calling me out on and and it was just my it was just my young Indian mind in London of just feeling that there were a finite number of options and that I didn't really even I didn't even know that there were other careers, like genuinely like I if you asked me then, like what careers existed in. The world, I literally could only think of medicine, law and finance like I didn't even know that anyone did anything beyond that, about anything beyond that was even available.


And so for me, I was like, OK, well, I can't do the first two, so I'm going to end up doing this one. And so it wasn't that it won from the heart, it's that it won from the safety, security, stability, reliability platform.


And and the reason why this is so important to talk about is I think today people look at me or may perceive my work if they're aware to be quite risk taking.


And, you know, I think I'm very different now. But there was a time in my life where I made decisions based on feeling I wanted a secure future and a stable future. Right.


Medicine, law, law or failure.


Yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I have three options growing up. What about in engineering that seems that to pass the test. Yeah I know, but I wasn't. I think that's very India centric.


But like British Indians I feel a not. So you don't find that. I don't know. Maybe, maybe it's just me. But but yeah.


No, it was just I was always I never I never I realized very, very early on that I didn't engage with the same things as the people around me, and I couldn't even force myself. My intuition was so strong and I didn't know called intuition at that time. But I knew that it was so strong it was dragging me towards and design and philosophy and all of this kind of stuff. But you're a social animal.


I suspect that you had lots of friends and ran in popular circles.


I did in my teens, but not up to my teens and even. Yeah, I did in my teens.


But I felt that I felt at that time that, you know, you just finding yourself like when you're in your teens, you don't know who you are, you don't know what you stand for, you don't know where your values are.


And everyone at that time, I mean, I went to a school where majority of people were probably smarter and smarter than me that, you know, super smart kids in my school and really accomplished and getting the best grades and, you know, best resumes and all of that kind of stuff. So you never really you it was good. It was very humbling being at my school. You go to every year, they would literally we'd get a report which would rank you in every subject, one to 180.


So we had 180 students in my area and every subject. And you'd get it sent to your parents, to you, and you get a number one to 180. So you can know when you're at 144. And there are some subject where I was at one point or another, that's some truth serum.


It was so bad, but it was, you know, it.


But the good thing about it was very early on, my school was able to show us what our strengths were and what wasn't.


And and now when I look back in hindsight, I'm like, wow, my school really pointed out to me what I was going to be successful and what I wasn't, to the point that my school didn't allow us to take certain subjects later on between ages 16. And you're done with that? Yeah, it's not going to work. Yeah, literally.


That's that you would go into this room with your parents and the teacher would sit you down and they'd be like, yeah, we don't think you can take chemistry next year.


Let's realize that I'd be so scared of those meetings because you'd be scared of how your parents are going to react.


So you go to university and you study business. Yeah, I studied management science and I focused on behavioral science. So all of my thesis and my my dissertation in all of that, I was focused on analyzing behaviour. And that's kind of what I got fascinated. So walk me up to this pivotal moment.


Yeah, I think, you know, I've talked about it before and and this is a great conversation already because I'm telling you stuff I've never said before, which I always love. So I you know, I mean, this is this is really fun for me right now. And I don't want to approach this as well. I'm always whenever I tell this, I'm always trying to relive it.


It's it's this thing, you know, I'll apologize for interrupting, but when you're in the process of telling and retelling your story time and time again, what I always I'm always sitting here thinking when I'm doing it myself, thinking. Because I'm just repeating, because I have like, you know, I know the thing and I know what to say and I think is that really what happened? Yeah, exactly. Really be honest with myself. Did this happen differently or is my is my memory playing tricks on me and telling me that something happened?


Because I've just repeated it so many times and always kind of like using that as a reference point? Absolutely.


Yeah, me too. And I'm always trying when I find is I know and I've asked myself that question as well, and I know that I'm telling what happened, but I'm always trying to discover a new truth about it. So whenever I'm telling you, I'm like, what can I discover this time about? Well, let me let's do it this way, then. Go for it. I mean, basically, as the story goes, you you developed a proclivity for seeking out interesting people to go hear talk, business people, sports figures, et cetera.


And suddenly there was this monk who was going to be speaking. You were initially not interested in hearing what that person had to say and you agreed with your friends to attend only on the assumption that you guys would go to a bar afterwards.


That a story. That's a story. So.


So let me ask you this. Let's talk about where that resistance came from.


The resistance just came from, I think this skeptical version of me that didn't really believe there was anything beyond success. And that's partly why I called the book Think Like a Monk, because I think a lot of people look at that.


And why would I want to think like a monthly y, you know, but but that's the point.


I'm trying to break through that barrier of I think so many of us have been conditioned to believe that success looks a certain way and that happiness looks a certain way and that joy looks a certain way.


And I was one of those people that was very skeptical about anything else outside of my space. Like if someone wasn't pulling up in their fast car or if someone wasn't pulling up in the best clothes, did I give them the time to really share their perspective? And I love the fact that that's the best moment of my life.


That moment until that point was also the most humiliating moment of my life for myself, because I was being humiliated to myself like it was so humbling to walk out and then be like, oh, you had it all wrong.


And so I love that I really celebrate the the humbling that that moment gave me. And it's exactly that, that when you hear someone speak.


And they speak about things that you never knew you were interested in.


You never thought that you'd be fascinated by someone talking about service, but when he spoke about service, it just penetrated my soul and it just spoke so deep to my core in a way that nothing ever has that I could hear about someone talking about making a billion dollars and it wouldn't feel the same way.


What was it that he said specifically? He was he was quoting another writer and he mentioned this this phrase. He said, plant trees under whose shade you do not plan to sit. He said that the best use of your talents and skills is not to use it to become rich, famous and successful, but to use it in the service of others.


When he said that, I was like, wow, that's a pretty bold statement.


Like, you know, well, you could have easily had the alternative reaction of, like, fuck that.


Yeah. And I think for me it was you know, it was partly my openness just came because and I've said this before, but I repeat it because it really hit me. It's like when I was 18, I met people who were beautiful. I met people who were rich. I met people who are strong. I'd met people who are powerful. But I don't think I'd ever met anyone who was truly happy. And he he looked and I still know him.


He's very happy. What's his name? Gongadze.


So he's he's like he's just like this big, joyful, like any time I spend time with him and he has a crazy schedule like the way he lives and how powerful like his you know, he went to it went to the Indian Institute of Technology. He's super smart, like one of the smartest people in his year, like, very accomplished.


And he gave it all up. And I was like, either he's really smart or he's really crazy. And I wanted to find out. And I think that's all I had is that I was like, he must be on to something, because if he had it all lined up, but he gave it up and he's really happy. What is it really like?


That's that's kind of where the curiosity. Yeah.


I mean, it sounds more like confusion. Like, I don't understand. You know, I need to I need to I need to square this equation.


Yeah. Yeah. Partly confusion, but partly also curiosity in the sense of just like he he must be really smart, he must be really crazy. Like if he's smart he's onto something like how did he gained so much joy, satisfaction and contentment in not chasing the dream that everyone around him was chasing and that society is constantly sort of pushing us towards.


Absolutely. Absolutely. And I was I was fascinated by what was his or he's still alive or what's his particular genus of, you know, spirituality.


Like what what tradition.


So he's a Hindu monk. He's a Hindu monk. And he's what I would consider in the book, I break down and think like a monk. I break down Dharma and purpose in calling.


So he would probably sit under the leader type of individual.


He is very ambitious, very focused. He can get a lot done. He's a powerhouse to be around at the same time. He wakes up at two a.m. to meditate every day, takes care of his health. He's just he's one of these like all rounder types of people who just. Yeah, really good at taking care of his mind, body and spirit. But at the same time, he really wants to do something for the world. He has that energy.


There is something about certain individuals I'm reluctant to say the word enlightened, but people who are carrying a higher level of consciousness, that when you're in their presence, it's undeniable. Like it's you can't you can't reduce it to words. But there is a sensation of what it feels like to be in that person's presence 100 percent.


And he introduced me to his spiritual teacher is also one of my spiritual teachers rather than a swami who's been a monk for forty years now.


And he's in England or in India, in India. And he's older as well. And it's like I feel like that when I'm with him every time. It's just, yeah, it's that undeniable presence. And I always say to people, you need to you need to feel it, to believe it, like you need to be there. You can't like you said, you can't reduce it to words. And yeah, I feel that now when even when I go to temples when I was in South India particularly, and your home reminds me a lot of South India because there's a lot of these stone.




Statues in the mountain out there. We've had we had some proper swami here.


We've had lots of swami's passes here over the years. Yeah.


And and one of them looked out of the mountain across the way and he said, this feels like my home and his home was Arunachalam.


Oh yeah. Yeah. Which is a very kind of like powerful spiritual vortex.


Absolutely. Yeah. And vortexes where I went and when I went to South India, it's a city with these powerful gates.


If you look at South Indian architecture, it's like these and you've got a lot of in your home, but it's like this incredible kind of like almost like Avenger's Marvel meets spiritual culture, kind of like spaceship kind of these doors and gates and and it's, you know, the temples.


They're like 5000 years old. And when you walk through those corridors, there's one that literally feels like you're going to walk through it and be transported to another dimension, because the way the pillars are beyond this thousand, it's like.


Star Trek. Yeah, literally, yeah, exactly, it's just, yeah, super what's it what's what's a mob today. Reference point. Kind of like Doctor Strange, like Doctor Strange, but on steroids, like, it's just. Yeah, it's expensive. And I think that is one of those things that you have to sit in that presence. You have to go there to believe it. And and I think anyone who has whether they have a faith or not, and that's really what's important to me is how do we share these teachings in a way that it's not bound by faith or religion or spiritual tradition.


Even for me, like this book isn't about becoming a spiritual tradition or a particular philosophy. It's it's about living like you and thinking like a monk.


Right. Right. That's that's the balance. Yeah.


I mean, two things. There's two powerful precepts here. One is you can't transmit something you haven't got. Like when you're in the presence of somebody like that, you know it. And, you know, there are a lot of pretenders to that type of vibration, but it's pretty transparent, like who's really carrying that kind of wisdom and who's pretending to.


And second to that is this idea that that you really fully embrace, which is meeting people where they're at. Like if you show up in robes and you're you're framing your presentation in a way that that creates distance between you and the person you're trying to communicate, then you're already, you know, basically behind home plate in terms of like trying to connect or transmit.


Yes. Yeah. And there's two things you bought about that, which I think are really interesting. It's the first is it's all about the frequency you're operating at. So if someone is fooling, you're pretending or trying to be something.


If you're operating at a lower frequency, you may follow for a while and you may not know.


But when you start upping your frequency, that's when you can really see that. Oh, right now I can see the difference.


And it's not in a judgmental way or a critical way. It's just frequencies. And and the second point you're making there around, you know, really, really speaking to people about where they're out or meeting them, where they're at and and connecting with them.


For me, it's just I think compassion is is not expecting people to be more advanced than they are. And and that's what people have done with me.


I mean, when I went to the ashram and when I spent time with these monks, I mean, I am in no way.


And even now I'm not I mean, they're compassionate even to spend time with me now. And I feel like when you've experienced that level of compassion where people see you, they look to your soul, they watch you, and they just think they can see everything about you that you don't like about yourself. And they will still find that spark of potential and the spark that makes them believe that we should invest and serve and help this human being. And for me, when you've experienced that level of compassion, even if you are still dealing with stuff yourself, you want to pass it on.


And so when I see anyone at any level, I don't judge anyone because, hey, I've been there before. Hey, I'm still there kind of in some ways. And I know how hard it is to get out of that mess. And so how can I judge someone just because they're three steps behind?


Yeah. So you have this experience with this bank? Yeah. Apparently everything changes.


So how does it change? Well, my lifestyle and I've talked about this before, like my personal lifestyle stayed the same.


I was still dating. I was still I've given up alcohol by that time and had given up like, you know, drugs and stuff. So I wasn't really playing. And I was always very experimental. I've never been an addict or a regular consumer of anything. I've just been an experiment to my whole life. But for me, it was my mind. Yeah, I'm still dating.


I'm still doing everything that anyone ever did. There was nothing changed in that. But I was not mentally curious and checking it out.


So I spend the next four years, half of them in my summer vacations, interning at financial companies in London where I thought I would end up working just because my university recommended that and the other half of my breaks, I'd spend them living in India with the monks to experience that lifestyle.


So I would literally go, as I explain it, from steakhouses, bars in suits to robes, sleeping on the floor and meditating every day.


Right. So it was that was that this monks teachers ashram? Yes.


Yeah, no, it's two hours outside of Mumbai, so it's in the middle of nowhere, but it's about two hours away. Yeah.


And were there other Westerners there. Yeah.


Yeah, plenty plenty of visitors from all over the world. People from Australia, people from Europe, people from London and. Yeah. That, that definitely have a lot of visitors even to us. Yeah. So initially it was a couple of years of half the summer.


Yeah it was, it wasn't long. I'd go there for like two weeks, three weeks. It's like I would go there for short bursts of time and just, just experience and just, just live like them and live with them. And for me and I didn't know this again in hindsight, it was me really getting to live both options of life, like I was getting to live in the city. I was getting to wear a fancy suit to work every day and get to perform well in the workplace and, you know, go through all of whatever that is networking.


Meeting people, and then I would get to do that and I just got so much more satisfaction from it, I felt satisfaction from the service we did, I felt satisfaction from the meditations. And if I'm completely honest, the the biggest thing that that got me at that time was I didn't have to think that ego and humility and vulnerability and empathy and compassion, these weren't just going to be concepts anymore. These were going to be real practices or weaknesses.


Yeah, weaknesses. These could become focus's that I could really wrap my head around them because when I was back in the city and I was trying to perform and I was trying to show my boss who was the best and who was performing well, it was hard to maintain that level of gravity because not because it's impossible. Because it's not that that's what I lay out and that's what I'm trying to teach right now. It was harder because I hadn't had that training.


And so now that I've come out of the ashram, I feel like my monk training has allowed me to continue to practice those principles in the real world.


Whereas at that time I was just an 18 year old kid who was still conditioned by everything else. I suppose the distinction, it's one thing to make a decision after you've lived as a monk during that like three year period making this hard line decision, OK, I'm going back into the world. But when you kind of have one foot in both worlds, I suspect that it probably became progressively more difficult to relate or connect with your friends back in London.


Right. Like, what were they? They must have been giving you a lot of shit.


Yeah, I was you know, I was very open with the closest friends. I remember one of my friends saying to me, like, oh, well, you know, we would always talk about women together. I would always talk about girls like which girls we liked and who he was dating and all this kind of stuff.


And all of a sudden I would come back from being a monk.


I'd have a monk and and, you know, try and like resist the urge to to just talk about women in that way and the way it can be done. And my my friend would just be like, what?


We're not what are we going to talk about? You know, it's just like I'm like, where's this life going?


And other parts of other and having to say and I want to give credit to my friends, to some of my other friends were just really intrigued and they actually wanted to learn. And so I ran a society at university called Think Out Loud.


And every week I would present a topic based on philosophy, science and psychology. So I would take a movie, I would dissect the characters. I would we would watch half the movie together and then we break down the roles. And I would talk about philosophy, science and spirituality and psychology to students. And when I started it, we had like ten students. By the time we finished university had 100 students coming every week and it was totally free.


There was no catch. There was no followers, there's no nothing. It was just this beautiful experience. And that's kind of where I got into the habit of everything I learned as a monk. I would teach it. So if I was learning about karma, I would teach it that week. If I if I went that summer and I learned about ego, I would talk about ego. And so I just started sharing what I was learning because I found that to be the best way of letting people connect.


And that's kind of where I got fascinated with this whole thing.


So this whole trajectory gets planted there, like you're starting to teach and share even before you go off and be a full time way before. And that experience of reviewing movies and discussing it really is I mean, that's the germination for these videos that you do now, 100 percent like that.


That really was the beginning. And that was when I was 18 years old to 14 years ago now. And I just love putting on a session every week. And then I got invite to other universities. I go to the London School of Economics and then I go to this other university. And I was just loving the fact that I was finding so many young people in London that wanted this over anything else.


Like that's what I was impressed by the most. There was a need.


And that convinced me very early on that if presented effectively, there was a community for this and people really were searching.


It's very similar to Andy Pettitte comes out and said, yeah, yeah. I mean, he's the only other person who's had well, he did ten minutes. Right. I know.


But him coming back from that experience and returning to London and then kind of hosting these salons, he meets Rich and then they start kind of, you know, basically doing informal get togethers that then, you know, become and grow into head space. But the idea started in a similar way to kind of what you're talking about.


Yeah, exactly. And this was I actually remember I told Andy this. I said to him that the year I first found out about Headspace is the year I became a monk. And I told him this. I was so impressed by what he was doing. And I said to him, if I would have had the money, I would have invested, but I had no money. I've said this and he's been on my podcast and we've done a few panels together.


But yeah, he's amazing. I love Andy. And and I said that to him. I was so impressed by what they did because I was just starting that journey and I saw what he'd done. I was like, wow, that's fascinating.


You know, it's so great to see that.


But yeah, yeah, I think this is the reason why I'm sharing this to with you, which is. You know, I've been doing this online for like three to four years, but in my life, I've been doing this for 14 years, like I've literally done this every single day of my life for the last 14 years in some way, shape or form, whether it is reading, studying or teaching or sharing. And so for me, it's become my life.


And when I left being a monk, I didn't want to not do that anymore.


And and what I get to do now is what brought me back to that, to be able to learn, study, teach, share and live in that element, which I feel so much connected to. Yeah. And meet people where they are.


Yeah. That was that's always been my thing because because I've been you know, I've been plucked out like, you know, it's when you've been drowning in an ocean of material thought and someone had the compassion and empathy to reach down and grab you, you feel like you want to do the same thing.


And and that's just my meditation constantly. You know, you don't you can't ever go back from that. The amount of gratitude I have for the people that have invested in me and open up my eyes.


I was 18 years old. I would have gone down the path of becoming an I probably if I had it my way, I probably would have wanted to become an art director at a massive company. I probably would have done pretty well for myself.


I would have traveled the world and wasted my life like that's I always think about that moment of sliding doors, what could it be? And that's why I would have been.


But because I met these incredibly powerful people who wanted nothing from me but just to give it change my life. And that's the opportunity I want. And for people, it may not be a monk, but when you think like a monk, you recognize that. Actually, am I exposing myself to as many alternative methods of thought? Am I really allowing myself to experience everything the world has to offer? Because if I'm not, I'm already limiting myself in a world that's actually unlimited.


And that's the challenge I see is that we are living at a time when you have the most choice available, you have the most experiences available.


But we still put ourselves in these prisons.


Not only that, those prisons are one of self-seeking. I mean, you mentioned giving. I mean, giving is, you know, service is the cornerstone of this whole thing. Yes. Being in selfless service to others. Yes. Which is just counterprogramming to the way entire, you know, our entire infrastructure of Western civilization is constructed. Yes, absolutely. A complete counterprogram.


And I remember when I was giving a talk, this was probably about like, oh, yeah, probably about four years ago. And I was speaking to a group of executives and one of them came up to me afterwards and he said, How old were you when you became younger? And I'm 22. And he said, when did you get the realization that life was about selfless service? And I said, well, I'm still getting there. I'm not there yet.


But the first time I fell in love with that idea, I was eighteen. He goes the first time I realized that life was beyond me. I was 42 years old when, you know, my child was growing up and he goes, That was the first time I realized that life was not just about me.


And I was thinking, wow, like to me it was to me it's weird because I got exposed to it at eighteen. I couldn't believe that someone didn't understand that even today. Like the reason why we're all repeating messages and continue to, I think, remind people of these messages that even ourselves is because you could hear that life is about service a million times.


But until you practice it and until you really. Until you really mold it into every area of your life, like this podcast is your service, I think we think of service also very limited.


We think service means to go and help a charity are being at the soup kitchen. Correct. And that is beautiful. And people should do it. It's wonderful. And I think we should all do and I try and do as much as I can.


But service is also serving through your calling, your talents, your skills, your purpose that benefits other people. And it can be different like, you know. Yes. So, yeah, there's so many methods.


Well, the ultimate is when you can find that thing that lights you up and channel that in a way to give back to others and also support yourself and your family and doing it. I mean, that's the secret. That's what this does for me. Yeah. I just feel like the luckiest person in the world to. Yes. You know, live in this time where this is possible and to have kind of stumbled into this.


Yeah, for sure. There's there's a beautiful story that I share that you reminded me of now. And it's the story of two monks that are washing their bowls. And while they're washing their bowls, they see a one of the monks is a scorpion drowning. And so he helps the scorpion out of the water and puts it onto the side. And in that process, he gets stung by the scorpion. And the other monk says, what are you doing?


Like, you know, this stupid. He said, oh, don't worry about don't worry about it. The scorpion falls in again to the water. The monk picks it up again, get stung in the process and puts it onto the side. So the other monks is like, OK, now you're just being ridiculous. Like, what are you doing? He said, why are you saving the scorpion when you know that it's nature is the sting.


And among reply's goes, I know that the Scorpions nature is the sting, but my nature is to save.


And so he understood how hard wired his service mindset was that he was willing to go through the pain to act in that way.


So what I'm trying to share with that story is that we're all wired to serve naturally as children, as kids, as people, as humans. But we've been educated for greed. And you see this. There's countless viral videos of kids who, like, walk up to the television screen and wipe the cartoon characters tears off with their tissues are like kids like running to help the person next to them. And we were all once that person.


But it's just the education that we get. And I'm not just to my school. I'm just generally the the education of becoming self-centered. And whether you look at it from a scientific point of view, the studies that have been done, when people help people, their depression goes down, the mental health goes up.


When people help people, they're able to feel more joy and experience more happiness in their lives, like we are happier when we serve and help people. And that, I think, has been so lost that if someone genuinely awesome, so because I think everyone hearing that will say, oh, yeah, but I like to help people, I try. If you really did an audit of how much time you spend every week genuinely helping someone who is giving you no help or is genuinely helping someone who does nothing back for you, I'd find that we'd say a very, very limited amount.


Yeah, the key is doing it when it's not convenient.


Yes, exactly. That's the best way to say. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's tough.


I mean, listen, you know, you hit it on the head. I mean, it's not it's not just school. It's like by osmosis. It's like I hear what you're saying, gee, that's great. But like I got to get mine do. Yeah. You know, times the clock's ticking and time is running out and I got my hustle on.


Yeah. So you want my response to that. Sure. Yeah. My response to that is. That mentality will get you the thing and it will get you the number and will get you the money in the bank. But you won't feel satisfied, and that's my hypothesis. So go test it, and I would gladly let anyone test that. And I guarantee you, that's how you feel.


What happens, though, is you get it. You have that experience of momentary elation that quickly fades the half life. And that is very short. And then you think your next thought isn't, I need a new path. Your next thought is, well, when I get that next thing. Exactly. I'm going to lock in.


Absolutely. Is the hamster wheel is the conveyor belt. And it's that's the that's the treadmill.


That's the that's the challenge with then I think that's where we have to learn from people who have got there and feel that way.


I think we have to it's like, you know, when you hear Jim Carey say, like everyone should get everything they want and become everything they ever wanted, just to realize it's not the point when you see everyone who gets to the peak of financial or fame or beauty success, they then try and serve like that's just what everyone ends up having to do.


We're in the world capital of that right here. Yeah, you know what I mean. Absolutely. Angellotti.


And you see it like, you know, I can't remember who said this, but, you know, it's talked about your success. I can remember you said it. Your success is based on the depth of the problem you solve.


Right. And if you look at any success, even if it's Jeff Bezos and Amazon and some guys, I want to be Jeff Bezos. Jeff has solved not that I know him, but Jeff has solved a issue that people had. So it's still service.


And I think that's what we miss, that anyone is winning even financially, whether we agree with their business model or not, they are performing some type of service to people. And because he's serving more people with an issue that they have, he's able to make more money. So even from a totally financial perspective, service still wins. There's no there's no you know, there's no take.


I get that it's a more it's just an expansive definition of service, correct? Correct.


But it's still social service ultimately is is solving a problem that really is a core need in people's lives. And I think that could be a starting point for someone. If they're still like Jay, I don't go right. I'm still I'm just trying to. Yeah.


Whether I'm all right.


So you make this decision to go be a monk full time.


You live in this ashram for three years. Yes, yeah. Yeah. And we travel a lot, too. So we lived in ashrams across London, Mumbai and Europe as well. Oh, wow.


Yeah. And I think similarly, Andy was in his twenties.


He was in Russia. He was in Russia. Scotland. Yeah. He told me about Scotland.


So walk me through like a typical day in the life of that experience.


Yeah. So you wake up at 4am every day no matter where you are. And four thirty is collective prayers and meditation. So four thirty till about five fifteen then five fifteen till seven thirty is personal meditation time. So that's personal meditation practice. Often in a communal space with other people can be private too. And then seven thirty to eight is seven. Thirty to eight thirty is a class. So class in philosophy from the bulgogi to or the Sumate Bogotá or one of these spiritual text Upanishads Puranas.


And so up in our class given by one of the senior monks or senior teachers, usually one of my favorite things to look forward to in the day because that's I was like kind of like I was always waiting for that because the classes were just so powerful and hearing people who've studied all the commentaries in the books and then ate that breakfast breakfast is usually in India would be some kind of Indian dish, kind of similar to I don't know how to describe it.


It's called flat rice and that's the easiest way to describe it. So simple food. And then from then on, it would be different every day.


So the way it was split up is the morning was about yourself and the afternoon evening were about service. And that's where I fell in love with this routine of cellphone service.


And I think today now the words coming back to self-love.


And I feel like that's where we got to experience both very clearly.


When you spend half your day taking care of yourself, you spend the other half serving.


You get this beautiful synergy between the two. So for the rest of the day, we'd be out feeding children. We'd be out building the sustainable village that we were. We'd be out teaching, we'd be helping like we'd be out doing something.


And that would change every day depending on what the need was. Sometimes we'd be chores as well, like washing your clothes. I mean, washing monk robes. They're not not fun at all.


Yeah, that is huge, Betty.


So that's kind of like seven days a week. Do you get a day off where you can go, you know, whatever you want? You know, I always I was one of those guys who wanted that day off. I was like I was like, if I may get a five of the forams, can I skip the other?


No, you don't get to it doesn't work like that. And I mean, there's a lot of reflection time in the day that you get.


And you have to really work through a lot of stuff because your ego gets in the way, your opinions start to get in the way. And living communally is a real experience. Like when you live communally with that many men in one place, it's like you.


We really have to face your ego, your pride, your competitive mentality, your comparison on a daily basis, it's really tough.


Did humanity ever just percolate to the surface and dudes start fist fighting?


No, no. Like no one ever actually like the only time Monkshood ever get beat. Humans are human. Yeah, I know how much you're meditating at some point, you know. No, it was never that that the only time the monks ever got into physical was when the the special sacred food came out.


So the sacred food that's out of it. And like, there's these sweets and we didn't you know, we didn't eat a lot of sugar or anything like that. So whenever the sweets came out that said that these milk sweets sometimes and said these sweets were like, they're the kind of like, yeah, yeah.


I've never spent time in an ashram, but I've been like, okay, well, I don't think I would like to I mean, I like to take you.


I would enjoy that. I'm being serious. I'm being deadly serious. We should go together. I go back every year. Do you still do? Yeah, every year I go back every usually December, January period. Because the weather's good to go then.


Yeah. For anyone who's not from India, like I struggled during the hot times in India too. So that's the best time if you're visiting. But I'd love to take you guys have fun and be cool.


Yeah. In my experience of, you know, sitting in meditation with various, you know, swami's over the years and being around, you know, various types of those kind of communities. Yeah. The thing that I notice, like the humanity that I see in that is the is the institutionalization of the guru. Right. And then it becomes like this pecking order of who's close to the higher consciousness. And there seems to be a lot of jockeying around.


Like that's where I see like, those sort of character, like the the, you know, our innate humanity percolating on the surface and manifesting in character flaws.


Yeah, for sure. That's a really good point. And I saw that, too. And I feel like I feel like my teachers did a very good job of not trying to. Create, enjoy or build that type of culture.


They tried their best, but the followers mentality is so strong, so I'll give an example like so.


So whenever I was with one of my teachers, if we traveled together weather and, you know, I'm I'm you have to put yourself in the mindset of I'm a very junior monk and spiritually very junior, too.


So I'm like I'm like right at the bottom of the pile. Right.


And it's like when I would travel with the senior most teacher, there was a respect in where we pay physical respects, as you've probably seen before, where people were physically bow on the floor to show respect to teachers, to etc. and and he at 70 years old, there was never a day behind closed doors when no one else was watching that he wouldn't get back and pay those respects on the floor. And to me, that was the that was the moment I was like, he's real because there was no more no one to show off to.


I was not senior that I deserved. Like, there was no you know, from from the point of view of a hierarchy, even though there wasn't one. But he would have the humility and the humor humanity to to recognize that if a soul or if a person is showing me respect, then I'll show those respects back. And I felt that at 70 years old, you know, I'm like 22 years old, like a 70 year old man, like, that's beautiful like that.


There was some beauty in there.


And that was that was part of it. And the other part was the you know, and it's funny because we talk about this a lot, even even with the other monks and other people, that about my teacher would never have a favorite or a number one. And he never verbalized this. But we all knew.


And and one of the senior monks, he always said to me, said, if you want to be the number one, you won't last very long. Right. And he literally said that to me. He goes, if you want to be his number one, go to right hand man. Well, that kind of stuff, because you're not going to last long here because he said anyone who wanted that position, they never got it because he doesn't want it to exist.


And so you will fail. And I remember having this conversation with him and he's, you know, because he's been so close to him for so long. And he said to me, he said, there are times this is longer, that he goes there are times when I've had to be really close to support him. And there are times when I've had to move away and step back and let him do what he needs to do. And it's like he goes, it doesn't work like that.


So I think that good leaders always try and avoid creating that culture.


But our follower mentality is so strong that we want someone to worship and idolize and we want that we're seeking on our identity is informed by proximity to that person.


Yeah. I mean, yeah.


And there's two types of proximity. So I'll tell you, you spagnoli memory. So we're walking on this beach in South India. It's called Setu Bunde. It's a very holy place and like literally the tip of South India, if you were to look at a map.


And so we're walking on this beach.


It's about twenty five monks and and our senior teaching, we're all walking behind him and everyone's trying to walk close to him and he's just walking like he's not even talking to anyone. He's just walking and he's doing a walking meditation and everyone's around him.


And it was there that I had had a realization. I was like, there are two ways of being close to him.


Either I push everyone away and try and walk through the middle or I push everyone closer. And be close because everyone else is closer to and I was like, I remember having a real reflection point of that moment, I was like, wow, these are the two options in life we always have.


You either get closer to people because you try and push everyone else out of the way or you get closer to people because you take everyone with you. And I was like, I'm going to try to do that second one for the rest of my life. If I want to be close to someone, I want to take everyone close to that person. I'm never going to be that guy who's trying to. And that's my hope. You know, that's my meditation.




That requires that you dispense with the zero sum game mentality.


Explain it. Meaning that your success can only come at the expense of others, right? Yeah. As opposed to the universe is infinitely abundant.


Yes. And there's room for everybody here. Yeah. Yeah. It's a non fear based perspective. Yeah. And things like a monk actually there there are an infinite number of seats in the theater of happiness.


So we in our minds have started to believe that.


We think now if you're booking a cinema theater or a movie theater, there's a finite number of seats. You've got to get tickets to the Olympics. There's a finite number of seats. There's tickets to the Coachella. Whatever it is, it's like there's a finite number of seats. And so that finite, finite, finite, finite has been drawn so deeply into us. But there are infinite number of seats and there's a seat with your name on it in the theater of happiness.


And just because I'm already in there doesn't mean you can't be in there just because you're in. That is I mean, I can't be in there.


And as soon as you realize that, you free yourself from realizing there is a seat with your name on it and and all you've got to do is climb your own seat and no one else can take that seat from you. And when you start living like that, you can collaborate, you can grow together, you can build together.


And you see this as being the epitome of I was just reading Bob IGIS book and and in there he talks about how it was. And I may get a few of the names wrong, but I think it was it was Steven Spielberg for sure. George Lucas. I think it's Quentin Tarantino. You're saying they used to get together and they would critique each other's movies before they came out so they'd give each other feedback. You're talking about some of the best of all time, like being comfortable showing their work to their competitors right now.


That's the point, right?


Like, I've never watched a Quentin Tarantino film and felt I was watching a Steven Spielberg film. And then I've never watched a speedboat film thinking I'm watching a George Lucas film, which just shows how incredibly creative and talented they are, but also how much they trusted what they were offering to the game.


Yeah, and that to me, is such a powerful metaphor. I mean, it's not a metaphor. It's literal of how you live in a there are an infinite number of seats in the theater of happiness on the subject of happiness.


You know, I think you would agree that we're suffering from an epidemic of loneliness and, you know, depression and, you know, people are seeking for answers and different ways of living. They're they're sensing their lack of, you know, their lack of contentment with the path that they've chosen for themselves.


And you go online and somebody telling you to, you know, find your bliss or, you know, seek out your passion. And I think that that's although perhaps coming from a good place is not necessarily helpful and perhaps damaging because it leaves that person thinking, well, I don't I don't know what my passion is or, you know, I'm not happy, but I don't understand the path forward to find that happiness.


And and I'm unsure about what steps I need to take in order to gird my life with more purpose and to try to find more fulfillment.


So with the experiences that you've had, like how do you speak to that person or meet them where they're at to try to get them to reframe their perspective on how they're living?


Yeah, so I think, first of all, it has to be a two fold approach. And what I mean by that is there is an aspect of it that is thinking and reflection and there is a part of it that is action and experimentation. These are the two aspects of anything in our life.


And the biggest mistake we make is we do too much action and experimenting without reflection or we do too much reflection without action and experimentation. So let's let's talk let's break them down. So let's start with the thinking and reflective approach. This is approach you can do on your own. This is the approach you can do right now listening to this. This is the approach that I half of it that I lay out and think like a OK. So the first thing I ask people to reflect on is is four areas.


The first area is things that you have an expertise in but have no passion for.


Make a list of three things that you have a expertise in but no passion for. So for me, I give the example of Microsoft Excel in numbers. I'm okay at it, but I don't enjoy it. Like I don't have a passion for it. Right.


So so write down three things in there.


Then the next box that I want you to fill out is ask yourself what do I have no expertise in? But I have a deep passion for. So for me it's neuroscience. I am not an expert in neuroscience.


I can perform brain cells. Junon, anyone and I couldn't scan anyone's brain, but I'm super passionate about. I love reading about it. I love speaking to neuroscientists. It's something for me. Social media used to be in that category for me.


Once upon a time, social media was something I wasn't an expert in or didn't know much about, but I was passionate about learning how to communicate. Then the third box things that you're not, no expertise and no passion. What are those things in your life that you like or don't like? I'm not good at them. Right. Maybe doing your taxes, I don't know, whatever.


I like pretty much everything. Everything else. Everything else. Yeah. And then the fourth and final box is what are you passionate about and what are you, an expert? And that's the box that you're trying to find. So that box may be empty right now. This is the thinking of so do that reflection exercise. The reason why it's so important is because most of us, first of all, don't even know what our expertise is and a passion is.


And I when I say passion, I'm not just saying find your passion. I'm saying, what do you like doing? What do you get? Joy, from reading about what? Even if you're watching a TV show, what is it about that TV show that keeps you captivated? Well, when you listen to this podcast, what part about it? Which person stands out to you?


It's you having to read in to every part of you. It's like start with something as simple as what's your favorite cuisine? Most people go, I don't know what my favorite cuisine is. We'll think about the last time you walked out of a meal. You were happy when you ordered it. You're happy and you ate it and you were happy the next morning. That's probably your favorite cuisine. Try and find those patterns in your life, because all of us have a karmic pattern in our life that we've just not zoned into.


So I'll give you another example. Let's let's look at the pattern of the best decisions you've made. If you looked at the best decisions you made in the last decade and let's say you pick three, right. Three's a pattern for me.


That's that's where I'm going to. I'm making that up. It's totally my choice. It's subjective, but it's my opinion.


Three things are a pattern. Look at the three decisions you made in your life where you knew it was the best decision when you made it, not when you got the best result. But you knew it even before the result happened that you made the best decision.


I guarantee you, if you reflect on those three decisions in the last decade, you will find the same parameters, the same environment and the same decision making thoughts and thought process that got you to your best decision.


So I'll give an example.


When I decided to become a monk, I believe that was my best decision when I made it, not because one day I would be able to write a book about it because I had no idea I'd even be here.


So I was going against the grain. No one agreed with me and most people thought it was the worst idea. When I left being a monk, I was going against the grain because most monks I joined with state as monks. No one agreed with me and I was completely sold that I was doing the right thing for me when I quit my safe corporate job to do what I do now. I was going against the grain because most my friends were happy with their salaries.


I was I was doing something that felt really right to me and no one agreed with me. And so I found that that's generally the pattern of my life. My best decisions are those three things. Now, that may not be for you. Your best decisions may be the opposite. So that reflection is really important. Second half action. Take the next month, take the next 30 days and every weekend, plan a new activity, workshop, seminar, course, book, podcast, listen to person to shadow, person to experience with, take a Saturday and Sunday and try it out.


You've got eight things that you can now test. There are eight days, eight weekends in a month, roughly test something new on each of those. Go and actually do something. So this is no more thinking, no more reflecting. If you want to be a chef where you think you want to be a chef, go and do a cooking class. See how natural it was for you, see how much fun you had doing the process.


Take eight different things and try them out. When you do both of those together within 30 days, you could figure out what you genuinely are passionate about as a starting point.


That may change. You may evolve, but at least you've got somewhere to start. And the biggest mistake is we're sitting there doing a personality test, trying to figure out what our passion is.


Obviously, you're not going to not write.


A lot of it goes back to if you could just live in the in the mindset of the child within like what did you what were the choices that you made when you were a kid about what you like to spend time doing?


I think that's also a good place to say. I agree. And I think those are really powerful exercises. The expertise piece can come later.


Yeah, it's not about that at that moment. Absolutely.


I think the more you engage with those activities that you naturally enjoy you. You're creating opportunities. You're creating an environment in which. Opportunities can come later for to further explore that there's a difference between a lack of expertise and inexperience. We think we lack expertise in something, but actually we're just inexperienced at it. And and that's the point of that second element of you don't have to be the best at something when you start doing it, but as soon as you start doing it, you've now given yourself that opportunity to grow.


And and I think we all know this.


There's always something we've all learned and become better at it. But if you're fascinated by you're probably more likely to invest more time. Right. And so you don't.


But it is also important. There may be things in your life that you have an expertise in, but you don't have a passion in. But then ask yourself the question, why don't I have a passion here? Because you could add meaning to it.


Like, there are so many skills that we have that if you added a bit of meaning, you added some purpose to it. You added why you are doing it. You could actually find a great use for it. And I think a lot of us are under under underestimating how powerful expertise is. You may have strengths that it is under utilized by your current job, but actually could be really well utilized by someone that you felt activated.


You essentially everything that you're saying are tools for greater self-awareness. Right. So when you say when I made this decision to go be a monk, I knew in my heart it was the right decision for me, despite externalities. Same thing when you made the decision to leave, but you're somebody who had spent an inordinate amount of time developing your self-awareness.


You're very integrated person because of all the inside work that you've done to get to a place where you not only are in tune with your instincts, you're able to rely upon that, you know what I mean? And I think most people are so disconnected from themselves and either lack adequate self awareness or are just living their lives so reactively that their impulses or their instincts are either unheard or entirely unreliable.


And I think that people make decisions and set goals for themselves in that state that lead them terribly awry.


But the intuition is a muscle that everyone can build, right? It really is.


I really believe that there's a study that I mentioned and things like mongerer. I talk about how men and women are asked to be alone with their thoughts for 15 minutes or give themselves an electric shock. 30 percent of women chose an electric shock and 60 percent of men chose an electric shock because they didn't want to be alone with their thoughts for 15 minutes. Now he's rude of all human suffering.


Yeah. Now, here's the thing that intuition comes from asking yourself questions, basic questions, simple questions, just as it would getting to know Rich, getting to know Jay is the same process after I eat something. Did I like that? Did I not like it the next morning? Did I like that? Did I not like it when you asked people, what are your favorite movies? You know how you feel when you walk outside a movie? No, you don't need to do a personality test.


You don't need to do three months away in Costa Rica. You don't need to do that to know whether you like something or you don't like something. You can do a sense check with yourself every single day after doing an activity. And if you literally after you did anything, anything you do, stop and just ask yourself, did I enjoy that? Yes or no? Simple question. So let's say I say yes. What did you enjoy about it?


Let's have that conversation. What did I enjoy about it?


What part of it was uncomfortable? But you still got excited about it. These are three simple questions that can lead you to greater self-awareness. I've done the same with every area of my life, and you should really become like an encyclopedia in your own life. Like if someone goes me. What's your favorite movie? It's like I am a big fan of thrillers. My favorite director and producer of all time is Christopher Nolan. My favorite movies are Memento, The Prestige, Inception, Interstellar and The Dark Knight Trilogy.


They're all Christopher Nolan movies. It's there's such a pattern in our lives and everyone has that pattern.


We just have to look beyond the debris. That's all there of the noise and the dirt that's stopping us because there's just so much distraction.


But that practice of self inquiry is really the definition of leading and examined life. Yes, right.


100 percent. Exactly. And that's all we have to do that we just have to ask ourselves questions.


The problem is we are demanding the answer from our partners. The universe teaches people we demand.


Why is this happening to me? What's the meaning of this? That's not a question. That's a demand.


And a question is a genuine, heartfelt request.


A question is. Do I like this like that's a question is is soft and powerful. The question is not loud and weak and our questions are actually demands, and that's why we don't find the answers.


Well, their demands be also because they're they're foisted outward. Yes.


If they're turned inward, the questions become, you know what what what is you know, what is the fear that compelled me to do that? Like what what childhood wound am I trying to sell by, you know, having this exchange with this person or making decision X, Y or Z?


Exactly. And that's exactly the demands are outwits. Questions are in which it's beautiful. Absolutely. That's it.


So you spend three years in the ashram. And you emerge, you make this decision to return, first of all, like, you know, what was there a sense at some point that you were going to always stay there?


And if so, what changed?


Yeah, so my my dream was that I would do it for the rest of my life. And I believe that as a monk, I'd be able to write and teach and share and hopefully be able to share that message anywhere and everywhere.


Where are the where are your parents at this point and what do you mean and how are they processing this? So I always describe my parents as very neutral.


They have been neutral participants in a beautiful way and I mean that a good way.


I love my parents.


They've they've never been overly pushy and they've never been overly encouraging. They kind of always been neutral. It's a really weird situation to be in.


So my parents don't massively celebrate everything I do, but they don't get upset when things don't go the way they thought it would.


So your mom's not asking you when you're going to go to medical school? No, no, no. She knew I wouldn't get in. You know, I didn't go to my graduation ceremony, so I never got that picture of me holding the I graduated but never got the picture.


And so my parents really gave up on me. Maybe they they you know, they gave it to me at that time when I decided to make this decision and they were open to whatever happened.


And I wanted to do it for the rest of my life. And then two things happened. One was I was really pushing it and really testing myself physically. And I could see that my health was was stumbling from it because I was just like trying to do all the fasts and meditating for longer. And my most competitive ego and also competition with myself mindset constantly wanted to test. And at the same time, I started to feel like.


And this was really tough, like to admit it, and I don't think I admitted it then and it's only happened afterwards, I think my meditation in self-awareness got me to a point where I realized I wasn't a monk in the sense of that that wasn't my path, that I felt that I wanted to share wisdom in a certain way, that I wanted to serve people in a certain way.


And a big part of me felt that that wouldn't be realized through that lifestyle. And that doesn't mean that I knew that one day we'd have billions of views or that, you know, all that kind of like it wasn't it wasn't like numbers and it wasn't fame.


It was just like I feel this deep calling to be with people and serve in this way and share wisdom in this way and teach in this way and talk about movies in the way I talk. And, you know, I wanted to I wanted to be immersed in mainstream culture. And as a monk, I didn't even know who won the World Cup that year. Like, I didn't I had no idea. And so that was a big part of it.


And then my teachers also, I think, started to see that I definitely consider myself a rebel. And I think becoming a monk is one of the most rebellious things you can do because it's totally anti society. But I think they could see that rebelliousness in me and they could see that I wouldn't necessarily lost with that mentality as a monk.


I think as a monk, it comes with sense sacred. It comes with a sacred what's the right word, sacred coherence or what's the word? I'm looking for a sacred, sacred commitment.


It's a sacred commitment to what you're doing. And I think I realized and they realized around the same time that that it wasn't like that. And I didn't realize at the time. I realized in hindsight. And so when my teacher said to me that he felt that I should leave so I can share what I've learned at that time, I hadn't yet admitted to myself that I even knew what I would do. And so that really felt like a break up.


It really felt like he was like, you know, it's not you, it's me.


It's kind of like, so break right? More or less release more like he was condescending to you, correct?


Like, because I hadn't yet admitted it to myself, it felt like I'd failed. And I think that's why what failure actually feels like when you haven't admitted something to yourself is it feels like failure. Whereas now I look back and I go, wow, I should have felt relieved. I should have felt like someone just opened up a gateway for me to go off and be myself.


And and I didn't know that then. Yeah. So when I left, I was probably in the most depressed day of my life. I moved back in my parents, everyone around me now saying, we told you so you wouldn't make it. And then you know what is making it, deciding to spend your entire life and when I think no one knows what made it mean for me. But it's what I mean. It's that perspective of like, oh, you couldn't even live as a monk.


Like, why would you come back? Or like, oh, know who's going to hire you now? And I heard that over and over again. Like, how are you going to make money? Who's going to hire you? Who he's going to talk to you. Like will you be able to reintegrate. And it was hard like hearing that noise as soon as you come back rather than like, oh, we so have it.


Like it wasn't like a welcoming party. And that's what my parents, my parents were very supportive. I'm talking about the external you know, I go, yeah, I got it.


But you emerged from that experience with a very powerful tool box. And it's one thing to implement or practice those tools in the construct of a very controlled environment at the ashram versus trying to take them into the chaos of the world. Yeah, absolutely. So what was that reemergence process like and how do you think about the applicability of that timeless wisdom and that toolbox in terms of how we navigate the vicissitudes of the modern age?


Well, I even fooled myself that the tools I'd learned were non-transferable.


So in in the in the immediate moment, even I even after having all that useless, I was just like, great, like, what do I do now? And and it came from, again, the noise because I applied to 40 companies. And when I say 40 companies, I mean I send them more specific tailored resumes and cover letters.


And I got rejected from all forty before. Didn't like ad agencies. And I'm talking about Lazaar, investment banks, investment banks, financial institutions, consulting firm strategy.


That's just that's just the universe doing you a favor.


True, but I didn't know that then. Like, you know, I was like, I can't rely on my parents forever and my parents are not financially well off or, you know, so I can't just leech off of them and I need to figure out how to make money. I'm twenty six years old and what am I going to do?


So I was applying to companies that would have given me a job three years before and I'm struggling and getting all these no's.


And, you know, when you're seeing rejection after rejection, after rejection, you really start to question what you have. But I realized that those three years, and I describe it this way, in the way you said it, that the three years being a monk were being at school and the last seven years since I've left have been the exam. And I can genuinely say so far that every tool that I have tested from my monk toolkit works.


And the biggest one or most most likely the most powerful one that I felt is there's a beautiful verse in the monastery I talk about in the book. And it says that. When you protect your purpose, your purpose protects you. And what I mean by that, and I will broaden purpose to mean what it needs to mean for anyone listening, you have to protect your strengths, your calling, your passions, your interests, your skills.


You have to protect them like a like a precious jewel, because the whole world will come at you and tell you that it's not a jewel. The whole world will come at you and tell you that it's worth nothing. And if you don't protect it, it can't protect your value back. And most of us, as soon as we get a question, we just chuck the jewel out. We just chuck it away and we go, oh, yeah, that wasn't worth anything.


And then later on in life, you realize you threw away a precious jewel. So I love that verse because that's what I was being tested to do, is I was about to go sell myself short and just go back into the world that I came from and just check out that know rather than like, hey, I learned all these things I wanted to serve. I became a monk because I wanted to serve. How can I still serve? How can I not just throw that all out and pretend that it doesn't matter?


And how can I apply the discipline and the mentality and all of the great skills? Because guess what, when surprise, surprise. No one wants to hire someone with Monk on their resume for three years.


And that's what I had because they couldn't see the transferable skills I had to see them. So they were thinking, oh, he's probably just going to be really quiet in the office. Right. Like, what is he going to do?


But I knew that that choir was intuition. I knew that that choir was solitude, not loneliness.


I knew that that quiet was the power that that ability to to to read things, reading between the lines, to connect with people.


And so I ended up still getting a job at Accenture. That's the first thing I did. That was it came about nine months, ten months after I'd left the ashram for ten months, I spent every day in the library reading spiritual books, spiritual texts like the bug return and reading self development books and business books and trying to reintegrate. So I spent about ten months literally reintegrating them. And then when I get my job, I remember they did an induction day.


And, you know, these big companies, they have these induction days where they try and do team bonding. So my first day of work was a pizza making class with all 100 graduates had also been hired by the company. So I turn up at this pizza making class and I'm just like, what am I going to do?


Like, I don't drink alcohol.


I've never gone back to drinking soda. I don't drink. I was like, oh, I don't know if I'm going to be able to eat half the pizzas that we make.


And how am I going to engage you? How do I talk to people? And I remember being really uncomfortable that day because I was I was having to decide again who I was going to be in a world that I knew who I would have been before. And now with everything else I learned. So I remember just finding one or two people having a really deep, meaningful conversation with them. And I found my people and I found a smaller group, whereas I think if I'd gone before, I would have been the loudest person in the room and networking.


I was I was totally different. And and I'm still really close friends. And one of the guys that I met that day and and I love it, you know, it's been it's been it was it was an amazing experience.


So at Accenture, your job, was it originally or did you morph into this role as kind of the social media person there? Yeah, I really understand how that worked.


How so? I started out as a as an as an average analyst.


I had the company where you just get a typical character.


And what happened is that in in our first year, they run a competition where they were going to choose a group of people to be trained by some social media experts that they were working with to try and build the social media and digital department inside the company because that was new then. It was like a big, big area of growth at that time. And so thankfully, I got into the the twenty in the competition and then I came out number one in the full competition and won.


And so I got this coaching and this coach not only became a coach from a professional standpoint, he became one of my closest friends named Thomas Power.


He lives in London. And he just I don't think he taught me everything about social media.


I think he really opened my mind. He would constantly push me to never settles. If we made a breakthrough or something like I got a promotion at the company, he would never see that success here. What's next? What are we going to build? Like he would just give me gave me this mentality of just growth mindset, believing more was possible and just being able to apply all the tools that I had learned. And so I end up creating this social media role at Accenture, where I am creating all of this content.


I'm learning how the biggest brands in the world use social media and working with executives on social media presence and understanding Twitter and LinkedIn. And I just get exposed to this incredible world and that's where I get to learn these skills.


Right. So that's basically, you know, the ashram for learning how to become the social media maven with the unbelievable knack for creating vitality.


Yeah, and it wasn't that like I never created, you know, viral content while I was at Accenture, but it just started opening up my mind to what was possible. Right.


It was just like, oh, these are the tools, feeling comfortable with failure, getting it wrong. It gave me a playground. Right. It gave me an opportunity.


And this is what anyone is listening in to this right now, watching this. And you're working at a company, your company is giving you an opportunity to learn, to grow, to test.


I learned so much about digital and strategy working at Accenture that I could never have gone from reading a book or or going to a course or something because it was there like I was I was there with it every day with a company that was 500000 people, you know, a global organization.


So that's when when I when I hear that people are dissatisfied with their jobs and they come to. He's my biggest question is, have you learned everything you possibly could from that place, because the truth is you could find a lot more meaning and passion in a place that you don't want to be in because you realize it could be the answer and key to what you could do in the future. And there is so much to gain.


Yeah, that's a cool Lanse. So. What's interesting about this is I didn't really fully understand like that you kind of went into this corporate world before I thought you kind of were hired as a consultant after you already figured out all this social media stuff and they hired you for that purpose. So that's fascinating. But what I think is really interesting here is from an outsider's perspective, looking in, it would appear that so many of these these, you know, timeless wisdom concepts don't square with living in the modern world.


Like when we think of detachment, we think of asceticism. When we think of competition, we think of, you know, the Zero-Sum game, et cetera. But I think when you peel back the layers, they're there. They're really highly compatible. So I'm interested in kind of exploring. Yeah. Let's try to take these ideas into the world and how they that's how they inform and how they inform your decision making and kind of how you you, you know, see yourself.


Yeah, I love that. And there's a big difference between especially from the bulgogi, his point of view. But there's a big difference between detachment and indifference.


And I think in our limited mindset, sometimes we think that detachment means indifference or detachment means disconnecting. And actually detachment means and I and I quote this this incredible writer where he said that detachment doesn't mean that you own nothing. Detachment means that nothing owns you. And when you look at detachment through that lens, it means, can I use everything that I have for a higher purpose? Can I use it and engage it rather than be consumed and used by now?


Granted, that's a very high platform to live on and it's not easy. But the point being that detachment is not indifference. That detachment doesn't just mean I don't want anything to do with this. It's actually how can I use this for more than what it's being used for right now?


And that's what's known as by Rupert Goswami.


He's he quotes a about probably about 500 years ago, he created and coined a term called Yukata Viravaidya, which means using everything for a higher purpose.


So he talks about how real renunciation, real detachment, real asceticism is. How can I use this for something more than myself? And it's not about just getting rid of and I love that principle. And I think that that's a very. That's a very practical principle that we can all employ living in the real world, so for amongst detachment is real. Like we didn't have beds, right? We didn't have a place that we slept. We slept in a different place every night.


But if you're not a monk and you want to apply that same principle, this is how you think about it. You recognize that I don't want to be in a position where I am consumed by everything. Another addition to detachment is detached from the result, focused on the process.


That's another definition. The bulgogi to that. You're not attached to the fruits of your labor, but you're completely committed to the labor, the process itself. And that's something that we miss so often that we think being detached means not caring about what happens actually means caring about the process and not caring about the result.


So when we talk about writing a book and you know, you've written books and when you're writing a book, if you're writing a book and all you're thinking about is how many copies am I going to sell now, you're not going to write a good book now you're dead out of the gate.


Totally. You're dead straight away because all you're thinking about, how many copies am I going to sell? Is this going to rank?


If that's what you're thinking about, you're now not present, which means you're not going to write a good book, whereas if you would dedicate to the process, the result is a given.


The result results a natural end to dedicate to the process. I fully get having a process oriented mindset and approach to everything that I do on the higher purpose piece.


Yeah, what I find myself doing is, is diluting myself a little bit or betraying a little bit of denial. Like perfect example.


We're here doing the podcast now I can say and there is a sliver of honesty in this, that I'm doing this for a higher purpose. I am like when I sit down for these conversations, I'm trying to be as present as possible and and, you know, deliver the best content that I can in service to the audience at the same time. I'm profiting off of it totally. And I know that if I grow the audience that then I can charge more and more.


You know, like, sure, there is a very self-serving aspect of this present. And I'm always, you know, unsure about how those two worlds like butt up against each other.


So intentions are all percentages. So what you just broke down, you may have and this is me, everyone included, you may have a 50 percent pure motive and 50 percent impure motive, or you may have a 75 percent pure motive and you may be 25 percent pure. The point is, it's a process of purification. But guess what?


Running away from it doesn't remove the impure intention, doing it, being humbled, seeing it fall apart, failing, growing, being told you terrible and having to reprocess that.


That is what purifies you.


So the belief that if I run away from that, which brings me down, you run away with it like it stays with you because it doesn't become purified.


And that's the process of purification. When you look at a muddy glass of water, it needs to be purified to be drinkable. And we're the same. We just get muddy. But with us, what happens is when you're in the world, when you're a monk, you're getting cleansed a lot every day when you're in the world. It's described in India as the dirty elephant. So the elephant goes and bathes in the water and then it rolls in the mud and then it bathes in the water and it rolls in the mud and if any, does this all day.


And so that's what we're doing. When we have impure and pure motives, we're doing both. But guess what? When you're aware and you start being honest with yourself and what you just did was beautiful, you like this? I'm not going to be in denial. I'm not going to let myself delude myself. And what happens with that great self-awareness. You get closer and closer and closer to being able to do things with a purer motive. And that may mean at some point that you like completely going to detach from ads or sponsorships or whatever it may be.


But that won't just happen if you stop that. That desire doesn't go away just because you don't externalize it.


Well, the irony is that the more the more service minded I am and the more pure I am in my approach, the better it all is. And that ends up being more enriching totally to me. So you can make the argument that that somebody should be selfless and in service for selfish motives. Like you can be like if I if I'm trying to appeal to somebody who is a selfish person, the appeal is, well, if you're in service to people, your life will improve.


So even if you're doing it for selfish reasons, it's still the right thing to do.


Yeah, exactly. That's it. That's exactly it. Hit the nail on the head. That's it. Yeah, that's it. And if that's what gets you started. Hey, that's what gets you. So what trips you up.


I make now. You're in the world, you're very successful. You've got a million things going on, the books coming out, your, your videos are you know you've got billions of views and all this kind of stuff. I would imagine your life is lined with with spiritual minefields all the time.


That's right. I mean, you're beat. We're all being tested. But, you know, what are the tests that you're facing and where do you still find yourself tripping your. Far, what is it that you're continually having to revisit? Well, I think the biggest test is so since I turned 18, I've always had my two hour meditation practice a day. And when I was a monk, obviously we did more. But the majority of the quality of it happened in the day, in the morning for me now with my crazy schedule.


One of the biggest things being tested is my routine, my my depth, my quality.


And, you know, in in the modern world, people may say, oh, yeah, you meditate for two hours. My among teachers would say, how deep would those two hours like?


They don't care about the two hours, you know, my depth and quality, not quantity.


So for me, the quality and quantity of my meditation is constantly being tested because there are supposedly more important things that I have to do, whether it's social media, whether it's audience, whether it's writing, whether it's doing right instead of being and to my being is challenged. And that, to me, is the biggest thing that I have to watch out for constantly is when I'm traveling.


I have to prioritize my routine when I'm moving around and then waking up later than I always am or I'm on a plane for too many hours a day. I can't let go of that. And I think that I'm sharing that as a very real battle right now because that's what I'm grappling with. And so for me, that's that's a big one. And I really think that my meditation is the is where the purity comes from.


Like, that's my boss. That's my purity bath every day, like, you miss your bath, like you smell. It's the same thing.


Well, it's rigged that way. I mean, all this all the being got you to this place where now you don't have time for the being because it provided you with so many gifts and opportunities. Correct.


And so I'm just very I'm I'm saying this as much to answer your question as I am for my own vigilance.


Like, the more I say this, the more I verbalize it, the more vigilant I become. Well, Gorgons would just tell you to wake up earlier.


Yeah. And, you know, like I mean, that's part of it. But I think it depends how and you may find this I find that mentally creative careers or purposes are different and and they require good sleep. And so I'm a big believer. I'm a big believer in eight and a half hours of sleep. I sleep eight and a half hours a day. I'm sleeping before midnight, usually by nine, 30, 10 p.m. to get my HGH to be maximized.


And I think people I know human growth hormone for anyone who doesn't know, but I'm sure your whole audience would know. But sleeping after twelve, your human growth hormone is not having the moment that it could have. And so you're limiting the quality of your sleep when you sleep after midnight.


So for me, I'm I'm a big believer in figuring out your routines. So that's one thing. That's one thing that I'm challenged by. Another thing that I'm challenged by is and I'm going to share I want to give you real ones that that I'm grappling with rather than the obvious easy ones of like, oh, there's so many opportunities and what to say no to and stuff like that.


But I'd say another one is, is finding spiritual community. So finding deep community.


I think I've been very fortunate. I think Ella has been good to me and we've made some really amazing friends here. But I think I go back to India every year to live with the monks. I take my wife as well. We go together every year. And that, for me is my reconnection to remind me of how important that practice is, because even while I'm here, I'm like, Oh, I'm doing well.


I've been meditating every day. I'm doing good, I'm doing good. And then you go back. Oh, wow. And I you know, there's so much more that I've totally missed. So that kind of reawakening and humbling every year is really powerful for me. When you go and meditate with the experts and you're like, oh, OK, I get it. Yeah, I've got a lot of work to do. And I think that looking in the mirror and you can only look in the mirror when you're surrounded by people who are who are practising with greater depth.


And so I think that that's a real challenge, as well as surrounding yourself with people who who are aspiring for the same levels of death. Right. And it goes back, you know, to kind of reiterate your sliding doors, for example, to this experience. You had this blessing of being exposed to this monk at an impressionable moment in your life. Like had that not happened, your life would have had a completely different flavor to it, Tony.


And it it goes to this point of, you know, not only seeking out mentors, but putting yourself in a position where you're exposed to different ideas like you can't model or become something that you're not exposed to.


Yeah, exactly. No, you can't. And that's the biggest thing, right?


We've all heard it before. You can't be what you can't see. And I think we don't see if we don't see enough of something. You don't realize how important it is. And that's why I mean, the biggest the biggest Monck approaches to everything are so powerful. Like we talk about routines. Monks have incredible morning routines, mindfulness meditation practices. We know that, you know, some of the most successful people in the world and you've interviewed some of them and I've interviewed some of them.


And they've all got a deep meditation practice.


You know, breath work is so powerful.


Like, I'm I'm breaking this all down in the most simplest ways of how even just cell phone service like that to me as a concept of how most of their lives of half self service like all of those is such brilliant.


Foundation points of how we can construct our lives to find peace and to enter to live with purpose like that, there are these simple constructs that we can all adopt.


Clarity is a superpower. Oh, for sure. As said by somebody we've both interviewed, Yuval Noah, Harari Lovera, who also has a, you know, strong meditation.


He goes away this year.


Did you did you do 60? He was telling me we were talking just before. And he he told me he used to do 60 days.


And now, because of his busy schedule, still 30 days every year.


Yeah. And I love that about him. And he will tell you and I'm sure he told you as well that his books are a product of that practice like this because he requires that level of solitude to develop the clarity that's necessary to write his books, which really are these 10000 foot perspectives on how we live today. Yeah, and it's one thing to be on a Vipassana meditation or in an ashram where you're stripped away of those distractions.


But, you know, we live in in a world where the noise is overwhelming and the distractions are not only omnipresent, they're they're specifically constructed to be as highly addictive as possible. And this is an interesting dynamic because your work requires you to have distance from those things, but you leverage those mediums to basically, you know, to have this career that you have. Yeah, yeah.


And I think that it's a it's a beautiful thing because the tools are not going to go away and social media is not going to go away to learning how to use it effectively.


Like I was just listening the other day. I really want to interview him, too. I was just I watched the interview with Jake Jake the other day and mixed him up with a football player nearly.


But Jake Hall, the Rapide, I know the music is fantastic.


And I was watching and he's very reflective. And he was saying that he took a break from social media to get away. And he realized that when he came back, nothing went away.


And this was the point that I'm making, that learning how to engage is more important than disengaging. And this is something that's messed. Disengaging is the first step to re-engage more effectively. It is not the step and the final step. And I think a lot of us look at disengagement as the achievement or the final step when actually disengagement is the beginning step of effective re-engagement.


Does that make sense? Yeah, I like that. And I think that that's the mistake people make.


People say, oh, I went on my social media seven day forecast. I'm going to be really when I come back. No, because you haven't still figured out how to re-engage. When I became a monk, it disconnected me from the noise. But my re-engagement into society has been more powerful because of the disconnection, but not seeing the disconnection as an end. And so when you decide to disengage from anything, learn that actually reengaging is the skill you want to develop when you learn how to re-engage, reconnect, renew, like when you can do all of that effectively, that's when you win the battle.


So for me, what helps me re-engage with social media is, first of all, I am a creator, not a consumer.


I consume to create or I create and I don't consume. So what I mean by that is when I come on to social media, I'm going there to share or to infuse energy. I don't go there to get energy. And if I go there to consume, it's to learn to create better. So that's a very clear rule for me. I'm not a consumer.


If you're not scrolling and looking at what everyone else is saying, I'm not in an unintentional way. Like I may follow you to see if you've interviewed someone. And I'm like, oh, just a really good question. I won't ask that question. I can ask you from this angle so that that will help my audience. Right. Like, that's that's consuming to create or Alridge got that amazing guess like maybe I should reach out to, you know, that kind of like.


And so I think being a consumer is important to being a creator, but it is not consuming just randomly and unintentionally. And even if I'm being random on social media, it's intentional. I'm like I'm going random to see what comes up on my feed because I want to see what's winning. So that's one point. The other barrier that I've made is me and my wife have created no technology times and zones in the home.


And we break this all the time. But but it's a good rule. So we decided that we would not have phones. And I recommend this to our phones in the dining room or the bedroom, because it's more fun to eat and sleep with people. So don't, you know, don't ruin those spaces where there's time for bonding and connection and conversation.


And I think most people these days are sitting in their beds, on their phones, on their devices and then go to bed. Right. Rather than talking or reflecting on the day or asking someone how their day was, whatever it is that you want to do. So I feel like creating barriers and times have really helped me. And even if I fail at it sometimes and we don't always follow it, it's still a useful thing to have. The other thing I have is I make sure and this has changed my life.


Just don't look your phone in the morning like that, just the morning time is so powerful. So I wake up at 6:00 a.m. on my best days and that's my generic across the board five days a week.


And I don't look at my phone until eight, 15 when I go down to the gym because I'm meditating in the morning and I've got my my personal practices so that just not looking at the phone in the morning, you're already now not staying the day as a consumer.


You're staying the day as a creator.


I think I heard you say that you locked your phone in your car.


It's true. It's a true story. So I let that was when I came back from being a monk.


So when I came back from the ashram, when I moved back in with my parents, I used to leave my phone and my laptop in the car, locked in the trunk outside, because I knew that if I kept it downstairs, I would trick myself into going at it.


Even after three years at the ashram, even after three years at the ashram, because that's how stuff this stuff is designed. But again, it was disengaging to learn how to re-engage and re-engagement means rules.


You have to set rules for yourself. You have to set rules that you can follow and rules that you can commit to.


And I think the simplest one for me is if you don't like and I don't know how you live, but I live that kind of my my life is very scheduled by the minute and the hour, even if it's free time or reflection time.


And I like living like that because it doesn't give me an excuse. I don't really have many gaps in my day where I can just aimlessly do stuff. Well, it takes the decision fatigue out of everything, correct?


I mean, one hard and fast rule that I have that I break for fairly regularly is I never schedule anything before 12:00. Nice. So my morning time is meditation, journaling, and then I go out and I train and that's usually that's that's my solitude. That's an active version of meditation that involves trail running or, you know, going swimming or whatever I'm doing. But I give myself like that seems very indulgent to most people. And I have the privilege of being self-employed so I can do that.


I understand most people can't do that, but by adhering to that rule, like I you know, people say, oh, can you do this conference call at nine in the morning? I was like, no, I'm not available until 12. Sometimes I, I, you know, I have to band for that or whatever, but by making that kind of a parameter, not a priority, that's improved my life tremendously. Exactly.


Yeah, that's beautiful. And I think that, like you said, if there are people out there who can't make those decisions, make it in the power that you do have. So if that for you is you don't do anything before 9am or if your idea is you don't do anything on Sunday before noon, you know, whatever it is like, find your mini version of that and see how that changes your life. You may not be able to do it to the degree of saying I'll never do anything before that time, but you can do it one day a week.


You can do for an hour, a week. You can do it for ten minutes. A week like that expands. I feel like the better we use our time, the more time expands for us. And I think we fill time is limited because we often don't use our time effectively.


Yeah, one thing I wanted to touch on with you is this idea of of element, environment and energy. Oh yeah. Yeah.


So I talk about how there are there. Yeah.


There are three things that we're all missing in our lives or we're not aware it's self awareness. So the first is our element. And that to me is your, your dharma, your passion, your calling.


It's when you feel you're performing at your best, it's what, what power, what power situation. But not not external, but what power mode do you find yourself in? So I love being in this mode. I love speaking on stage. I love reading, studying and learning. I love writing. I love synthesizing. Like, that's my power mode. That's my element.


I love being in the element.


Now that comes with figuring out your dharma and your passion and your purpose and everything we spoke about. The second hour of environment is what environment do you thrive in?


Now, the reason why I fell in love with your home is because I love solitude and I love silence and I love being alone. And so right now it's just me and you. And I was just like, wow, this is really nice.


And so my I have an office for my team, but I work from my home office because I don't like being around lots of noise and people.


I manage all these people. Yeah, exactly. But I live in the big social media machine and it's hard.


And so, you know, and I'm still and this is what I mean by this is a challenge.


Right. Do you protect your purpose or do you give in? This is exactly it's like I have to work from home because that is who I am. I love being alone to create. I need time. I need space. I need I don't I can't deal with too much distraction. I don't enjoy it. And so I've had to craft my life in a way to do that. And I and just just to clarify, when I was at Accenture, I did not have my own office.


I did not have a corner office. I did not have any office. I worked on the floor and I was able to do this then by putting on my headphones or by being very careful about who I spoke to and who I connected with or finding a space where I could build my own. So you can craft. Spaces, too, even if you don't have them. But environment, it's really important to know what environment you thrive in, because I think for most of us, our environment is just something we accept based on what we get and we're not good at.


Crafting environment could be something as simple as playing the right song. It could be having the right background on your desktop because it brings you to life. It could be having crystals in front of you. This is an environment.


When I walked into that, I was like, oh, books and crystals.


My kind of my on a table, you know, it's like there's so much this is an environment and everyone can create that environment, whether they're an office desk, whether they're in a cubicle, whether they're on the train, you have to create their environment. And finally, it's what energy do you vibe with? And what I mean by that is you can look at it as simple as fast paced energy or slow energy, but you can also look at it as frequency of do you succeed and are you more challenged when you're around people that are teaching you and guiding you?


Or do you succeed in an energy that is where you're teaching, like knowing your energy of of power is so important? And I feel for so many people, their energy is low because they're constantly in low energy spaces. So places like bars and restaurants every day, of course, you feel tired. Of course you feel exhausted. Of course, you don't feel energized in the morning. It's probably one of the worst ways to end the day. And we think that it's decompressing.


And actually, no, it's just depressing, right? It's like there's no decompression. There's just depression that comes with that because you just get exhausted and your body and your mind are now dealing with what's called cognitive load because your mind in a bar is not only trying to listen to the person talking to you, your mind is trying. Your brain is trying to process all the other cluttered sound because it's trying to make sense of it. Now, guess what?


Your brain doesn't realize for a long time that there is no sense in it because it's still trying to process process. Process is getting drained. And so you have to know what energy you thrive in. And if you need a day to take care of your energy every week, you have to invest in that.


Well, I think answering those questions, like grappling with like what is the energy in which I thrive, what environment suits me, you know, what is my element? All of this goes back to self-awareness, Tony.


Well, you know, I think if you ask most people what kind of environment you thrive best, then I would venture to imagine that most people aren't really sure. They don't answer that.


They don't know. And my answer to that is that that's what I expect. And that's why I'm encouraging that, because I'm not trying to give you the answers for you, because I don't know and I can't know and no one can know.


But what I do know is that if you ask yourself the right questions more often, you will very quickly find out, just like everyone knows, whether they like Mexican food or not.


It's the same thing. It's it's not complicated. Like, it's really that simple. It's like, you know, whether you like Mexican food or not, OK, you like Mexican food, do you like burritos or talkers? You know the answer to that. It's not complicated. And it's the same with energy and environment and Elliman. It's just no one's ever asked us. No one's ever asked us. What's your favorite energy?


Imagine being on a first day and someone goes you why Malmedy is driving. No one else ever knows what your favorite color. What's your favorite food? What's your favorite movie?


Start applying that same questioning to how you live your life. It's also about people you meet when you.


Julija I remember I was given a very interesting offer once by a very wealthy individual and and I remember and it would have been very lucrative for me.


And I remember coming back from that evening and speaking to a very dear friend of mine, and he was like, how did he go?


Because I was very excited for that meeting is very early in my career. I was very excited for that meeting.


I don't think I'd ever met someone of that caliber before and who it was quite a moment for me. So I told him how excited I was. And when I come back, when I got back, he said to me, like, So how do you go? And I said. I said, I don't think I'm going to work with him, and he was like, why not? It sounds like an amazing opportunity. It's lucrative everything I like.


I got involved with his energy, like there was just something about it that just I didn't feel like I felt like if I failed. He'd he'd say, I told you so, and if we won, then he'd take the credit and I just that's not the kind of partnership I like. I like partnerships which are win win where we're supporting each other.


And so, so easy to judge that. But you forget that if you don't ask yourself when you walk out, see when we walk out of parties, we talk about the food in the drink, we talk about what people were wearing, all useless information.


We rarely go, do I like hanging out there or do I not, like, hang out there? Do I feel energized or do I not? Those are much better questions to ask then. Oh, did you like her shoes?


Well, expanding that level of self-awareness to better understand how other human beings operate is incredibly valuable, especially if you're in a relationship like you're somebody who who, you know, needs solitude, like you said.


Yeah. That doesn't mean that the person that you're with thrives in that dynamic. That person may need something different. And being able to like, you know, grok that will provide you with incredibly powerful and important relationship tools to maintain that relationship.


Otherwise, if you're expecting them to process in the way that you do, you're setting yourself up for a lot of problems.


Exactly. So for me and my wife, it's a really good point, which I am really glad you raised that for me, for me and my wife. She succeeds and thrives when she's around her friends and family.


And I succeed and thrive when I'm when I'm on my own or with her on my own in terms of a creative way.


And so we know that when I want that time, that's when she usually goes back to London and spends time with her family or when she wants to go spend time with her family in London or has our friends over here, that's when I'm going to get more time to do that.


And so we found that we both require very different things, but we've tried in our relationship to time then her for me and me for her time, then at the same time, so that we both get that and and so I can be travelling alone. Like I just went to New York for a week, but she was here and her friends had moved into a place for four a week with her. You know, it's like it's finding out the things that work and and it's you supporting them to have that environment.


And they support you to have your environment right. Rather than like you saying, oh, well, I like being alone, so you should be OK being alone to like it. And we both know that isn't work.


Yeah, yeah, yeah. Respecting that and also understanding that.


That person has their own independent experience and and and and being in a place where a healthy a healthy place where you're trying to support that person in their own personal self actualization journey as opposed to making it like a compliment to your own journey.


It's important, right?


Like, yeah, it's important to be to have your independence within a relationship and not be, you know, overly defined by the other person. Oh, 100 percent.


Yeah. Couldn't couldn't agree more. And I think with with couples that's the challenge.


We look for similarities in likes and dislikes. You know, when you when you're dating someone or you're meeting someone, you like to be like the same food, we like the same things, do we both like being alone? Do we both like this?


And you look for likes and similarities and quite superficial things that are not actually relevant to the quality of a relationship. What's what's really the heart of the quality of a relationship is do you have the same likes and dislikes as to how to build a relationship in terms of your values about a relationship? It's about values.


Yeah, I mean, you can be my wife and I are completely different, and so is that a lot of people are shocked that it works.


And I mean, we've been together for 20 years and we figured a few things out, but it's because we share our core values, even though from, you know, from a surface perspective, we look very different.


Yeah. And core values, not just from the point of view of the deeper thing that builds you both, but I mean core values of how you view a healthy relationship. Yeah, like me and my wife, both of you, a healthy relationship as one where we support each other to reach our own goals. That's a value in a relationship. It's not even just a value.


Another value of ours is that we both know that we can trust each other, that we're always acting for each other's benefit. Right. That's a value we both share, that we both share the value of. Once you sleep on it, it's done. We both have that. So when we've thought about something, we've disagreed about something. When we've gone to sleep the next day, we're not bringing it back up as as as ammunition. It's gone.


And we both have that value before we met. And so those are relationship values and that's what you need, values that are similar or not just values in all. We both value spirituality. That's that's there. But this is a deeper level of that. Yeah.


It's not about avoiding conflict or. Yeah. Not arguing or not having different fights over things. It's about how you process that and communicate to get to the other side and you know, minimize the half life. Yeah.


I mean, I mean John Gottman who's whose institution. He's amazing. Yeah. He's, he's been to the government institution. I haven't been. Yeah.


I met him at a conference that we both spoke and I can't wait to have him on my podcast. But John Gottman is done all the research on relationships and he talks about the number one skill needed to have a long lasting relationship is not date nights. It's not walks on the beach. It's not flowers. It's learning how to fire.


Yeah. And when I read that in his work, I was just like, that is so true. I love that because you are going to fight. But most people don't know how to fire. And just as there's love languages, what Gary Chapman so beautifully explained, I believe that there are fight languages. And what I mean by that is there are fight responses or languages that you naturally have. So, for example, my wife's fight language is she likes to be quiet, reflect and think and not talk about things until she processes my fight.


Language is totally the opposite. I want to figure out right now, I want to open up. I want to extrapolate on to break it down. Guess.


Well, in the beginning of our relationship, that really didn't work because she was quiet.


Don't know why are you quiet? Why are you not telling me what's going on? Have I done something wrong?


And I'd be forcing her to share it. And then she would share prematurely and feel like she said something she didn't mean now. And now I'm upset at what I forced her to share with me.


And so we really had to learn each other's languages.


I've learned that her first language is better than mine. And so now the approach is she needs space, I need space, and we come back together and discuss it when we're both ready. And it sounds basic, but so many relationship issues occur because people's fight languages don't match.


Mindful fighting, mindful fight for fighting is that is the antithesis of mindfulness in the sense that you're you're being reactive in the moment, like something comes over us and we're just we're just spouting whatever and we're repeating these recursive patterns that are embedded deep within us. And to the extent that you could take a step back and deploy the skills that you learn through meditation and the experiences that you had on this ashram to create distance between your impulse and the next best move, you're taking out an insurance policy for a better outcome.


Absolutely. Yeah, I agree with her. Really well said.


So let's round it out by, like, talking a little bit more about the book. I mean, the book hasn't come out yet, so I'm only seeing it for the first time here.


But I'm excited for you, man.


Thank you, man. I'm really excited about it. Yeah. The book's like really breaks down everything that you it's got all the stories that can inspire and uplift you. It's got all the studies that back up every piece of wisdom that I've ever learned. And it's got all the strategies on how to actually do it. I've got action tips, habits and reflection questions at the end of each chapter. So it's a it's a workbook like it's practical. You can get stuck in.


It's not it's not just text and and yeah, at the end of every chapter you see the reflection, questions and habits that you can take on. And there's loads of rules and principles and tools.


It's it's a toolkit. It's the. It's the Munk School talks to look at identity, negativity, fear and tension, purpose, routine, ego, gratitude. I mean, you know, it's a 360 approach.


Yeah, it was you know, for me, it was like, how do I present the path? My first book, I was like, and I'm going to write many. So this is the first of many. But I was like, how do I create the path, the full path for people in my first book? That was the goal of it.


And yeah, that's really part of it. And really, I really feel that if anyone's benefited from this podcast, my podcast, if anyone's benefited from my videos, then I genuinely believe that this is a very natural next step for people. How has the podcast been going? It's been fun, man.


It's so we only launched. You've been doing it for a little over a year. Just over a year. Exactly. February 14th, last year, 2019, we launched. It's easily the most fun I have in my life, just like this was.


But, you know, I've been a part of me is not been on to many podcasts because I was waiting for my book to come out.


And so I realized how much fun I have. Also not being the host. It's so easy because I've had so much fun today. I'm like, this has been like I've had revelations sitting here. I've said things I've never said before. I need to go back and listen to some of the stuff I said to help me. I need to go listen to some of the stuff you said, like it's been so fun. And I'm like, oh, I need to do this more.


Well, I appreciate you coming here to talk to me. You're an inspiration to me and millions of people out there. The content that you're putting out into the world is definitely raising the the vibration of consciousness. And that's what we need now more than ever. We need a bridge these gaps and learn how to communicate. Long form conversations are one way to do it.


The videos and everything that you kind of, you know, produce us as really like a spiritual offering to the world, I think is is a gift. So thank you for that. And I'm excited to see how this book is received by the world and and what you decide to do next, my friend. And you've always got a welcome seat across from me here.


Thank you, man. I was also going to say you've I've I've been schooled today on how to host a really good podcast. I'm a veteran and this has been a lot of fun. And it's yeah, you're brilliant to talk to me.


And I've really explored so many things today. So thank you so much for helping me re explore and and learn and question so many of my own beliefs and values. I really appreciate anyone who can help me do that. I expand.


So the book is Think Like a Monk Available Everywhere, support your local booksellers. But you can also, of course, always get it on Amazon. You can learn more about J.


J Shed. He taught me he's a beast on Facebook, which is interesting because it's like I thought we were done with Facebook.


But you're like huge on Facebook. That's a whole other podcast.


Just Google Jaisha. You can find them everywhere. Thank you so much. Because, hey, we didn't even talk about being vegan. We didn't do that next year. Yeah. Next time. Yeah. We've got a lot more. We should do more stuff together regularly. Right on. That's great. Good times, have you guys got a lot out of that? She is quite an interesting, compelling individual. We all could use a little bit more of his sagacious wisdom in our lives, I suppose.


So to get your Daily Dose, you can follow him on Instagram at Shati, you can find him on Facebook or on YouTube, where he shares all his amazing video content. You can listen to his podcast on purpose and of course, pick up his new book, Think Like a Monk, Train Your Mind for peace and Purpose. As always, links to everything in the show notes which you will find on the episode page rich roll dot com. If you'd like to support the work we do here on the show, subscribe, write and comment on it.


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I want to thank everybody who endeavored, who toiled, who worked hard to put on today's show. Jason Carmello for audio engineering, production show notes and interstitial music. Blake Curtis for videoing and editing today's show. Jessica Miranda for Graphics, Ali Rogers for Portraits DKA. David Conn for Advertising Relationships and theme music by Tyler Trapper and Harry. Thanks for the love you guys. I appreciate all of you. I do not take your attention for granted and I will always, always endeavor to improve my craft to bring you the best, most high five content I possibly can until next time piece plants.