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Hey, guys, it's Mike Rowe. This is the way I heard it, the only podcast for The Curious Mind with a short attention span today, I'll tell you the true story of a patient man who met a girl, fell in love and did what he had to do to make that girl an honest woman.


Then another true story about another patient man, a patient man with limited resources who employed a unique parenting style that left his son convinced that rich people were more to be pitied than envied. That man happens to be my father, John Rowe, who is still against some very long odds, married to my mother, Peggy. In fact, Peggy Rowe herself has agreed to join me for a profoundly unscripted conversation about whatever it is mothers and sons talk about these days when the mother is a best selling author and the son is a guy who invites her onto his podcast for a quick catch up.


It's Episode 182. It's called Mother Knows Best, and it starts right now.


And by right now, I mean right after I thank my friends at NetSuite for sponsoring this episode. Look, if you're a business owner, you don't need me to tell you that running a business is difficult, especially now. But but you might be making it harder on yourself than necessary. Don't let quick books and spreadsheets slow you down. It's time to upgrade to NetSuite. Why? Because NetSuite by Oracle is the number one cloud business system, period.


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Dot com slash mike. That's NetSuite dot com mike. And this. Well, this is the way I heard it.


Chapter five, a patient man. John was a patient man, his attraction to Peggy had been instantaneous and profound, their courtship a whirlwind of barely suppressed passion. And now, as John stood at the altar, watching the object of his affection walk slowly toward him, his thoughts were those of a man whose patience was finally about to pay off as Peggy drew ever closer. And the organ heralded the coming of the bride, John recalled the day he'd proposed.


At first, Peggy had immured. She said she'd think about it tomorrow, but John was persistent as well as patient. And eventually she said yes. How happy he had been, how relieved he knew that the most eligible debutante in Atlanta had accepted proposals from five other men, all with more to offer than he could ever hope to match. He knew that she had broken off all those engagements. But now here they were, Peggy in her wedding gown and John in his tuxedo, standing just a few feet apart.


The ceremony was a blur, Scripture's were quoted, songs were sung, the minister spoke sacred words and all of Atlanta's society bore witness. Then the tricky part came before he got to the vows. The minister regarded the congregation and invited anyone present who might object to the union to speak now or forever hold their peace. John glanced out at the faces of those assembled in the crowded church and held his breath, he knew that several of Peggy's previous suitors were in attendance.


Would they object? What would he do if they did? The moment passed, John exhaled slowly, and when the minister asked the groom if he would love, honor and cherish Peggy from this day forward, John stared into the face of his true love and said the only thing he could say nothing because the preacher was not talking to John.


The preacher was talking to John's best friend, a man named Burián. Upshaw read to his friends today. Read was the man that Peggy was marrying. John had plenty of objections, but disinclined as he was to forever hold his peace. He had no intention of speaking now he proceeded with his plan. Instead, he smiled. He handed read the wedding band and applauded as his best friend married the love of his life.


The following days, weeks and months were difficult for John, he knew his true love was in the arms of another man, but John couldn't really blame Peggy. Red was a charmer. He looked like a film star. He'd made a fortune as a Prohibition era bootlegger, and he possessed a mercurial quality that made him irresistible to the fairer sex.


John Marsh, on the other hand, was a mild mannered public relations man who dabbled in journalism. As Peggy had told John when she broke their engagements along with his heart. Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect. Indeed, but with respect to expectations, John knew something that Red and Peggy did not, he knew them. He knew them better than they knew themselves or each other. John knew that Red expected a compliant and co-operative wife.


He knew that Peggy expected a tolerant and devoted husband in time. John believed their expectations would go unmet. And when they did, he knew that Red Upshaw would no longer give a damn about his sacred vows. He'd be more likely to give his blushing bride a whack, and Peggy would never tolerate that. Two months went by before Red ran out of patience with the fiery woman who couldn't help but speak her mind when she showed him a bit too much sass, he showed her the back of his hand and that was that.


Peggy moved out and John was waiting to pick up the pieces. Before long, he proposed again. Peggy told him she'd think about it tomorrow. John smiled and said he'd heard that one yesterday. Peggy smiled back and this time she said yes, straight away. And they lived happily ever after. Sadly, ever after would last only 24 years, Peggy was killed by a drunk driver when she was just 48. But during her time with John, she didn't just find true love.


She found her true voice with John's encouragement. Peggy started to write. She wrote about love and passion, pride and prejudice, war and death, hope and all the things in between. Some say she wrote the story of her own life. Peggy never confirmed that, but then again, the most famous character she created was a strong willed Southern belle, a beautiful socialite named Pansy, whom every man wanted to wed, Peggy swore up and down that Pansy had nothing to do with her.


But she did choose for Pansy's husband, a dashing, mercurial bootlegger who she swore had nothing to do with red. As for the character, Pennsy desired, but could never possess a man married to her best friend. No, that guy wasn't inspired by John Marsh. Not at all. Whatever the truth was, the publishers loved Peggy's manuscript. They only had one change to make when it came to the 1037 page novel, which went on to win the Pulitzer Prize and sell 30 million copies in the process.


They thought the name Pansy was too weak for the fiery character Peggy had pulled from thin air. And John convinced Peggy that the publishers were right. In real life, that's exactly how it happened, a dashing bootlegger named Fred Upshaw, frankly, didn't give a damn, while an average Joe named John Marsh knew with certainty that tomorrow would be another day. As for Margaret Mitchell, she'd written herself as a pansy, though her publisher knew she was really a scarlet.


And as for everything else, well, that is Gone with the Wind. If you ask the other John and Peggy, my parents, how they've managed to stay married for well over half a century, they'll credit an uncompromising level of honesty with each other. If you press them, though, you'll learn that their commitment to the truth did not extend to their children. Indeed, when it came to raising three boys on a public school teacher salary, my parents lied like rugs.


I remember a television commercial that used to air during Baltimore Orioles home games. It was for an amusement park in Ocean City, Maryland. According to the announcer, a visit there would amount to the time of my life.


At that particular moment, my life had amounted to about nine years. For the most part, I was satisfied with the way things were going. Then I saw the wild mouse. The wild mouse was a giant roller coaster that threatened to leap from our black and white television and smash through the wall of our tiny den, it shared the Ocean City boardwalk with the round up, the tilt a whirl and other mysterious contraptions that plunged and spun this way in that I'd never seen anything like them.


A parade of machines devised for no purpose other than pure enjoyment. I remember the camera zooming in on a kid about my age, he was strapped into the wild mouse next to a pretty girl, his excitement teetering on the verge of rapture. I was transfixed. Hey, Peggy, get a load of these dealings on the TV. I think they're going to puke on each other. My parents were sitting on the sofa behind me. Oh, those poor children.


Mom said, why would anyone stand in line all day just to get vomited on?


Obviously. Peggy, those kids are deranged. Look at them. I searched the sea of jubilant faces for signs of idiocy or nausea. Isn't it sad, John, how some children need machines to have fun? It sure is, Peg. It sure is. Later, another commercial appeared, this one for a movie called Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. It was playing at the senator and according to the announcer, it was a thrilling film for the whole family, a must see event.


I had never been to the senator before or any other movie theater.


I was captivated. Tell me something, Peg, why would anyone want to see the movie when they could read the book instead, books are so much more interesting. Well, John, as I understand it, movies are for children who can't read very well. Isn't that sad?


It sure is. It sure is. In 1971, we didn't have the money for amusement parks or Musse events, but I never felt bad about missing such things. I was too busy feeling sorry for people who had to endure them. Hey, Dad, can we order a pizza tonight or what?


We had never eaten a pizza before, much less ordered one, the concept of food delivery was completely foreign.


Bobby Price says his mother has a pizza pie delivered right to their house every Friday night. I said and Chinese food every Wednesday. My father sighed and spoke with a hint of sadness, looks on Bobby's mother, doesn't know how to cook. It's not her fault they can't have normal food.


Then quietly to my mother, Peg. Maybe you should call Misprice. Give her the recipe for your meatloaf casserole. Of course, John, that poor boy deserves a home cooked meal. He sure does, Peg. He sure does. It was a strange sort of snobbery to develop at such an early age, this sympathy for the more fortunate, but that's precisely what my parents engendered with duplicity and guile. They turned envy to pity. By the time I was 11, I felt nothing but compassion for classmates of mine who had been forced to wear the latest fashions.


Sadly, they had no older cousins to provide them with a superior wardrobe of softer, sturdier, broken in alternative's. One Sunday after church, our neighbors came by with the slideshow from their most recent family vacation, hundreds of photos from Yellowstone and Yosemite, the Brannigan's had stayed for hours and hours and told stories about Indians and geysers and wild bears. My brothers and I were spellbound when they left. My dad smiled and waved as they pulled out of the driveway.


But when he turned around, his expression spoke for him. While those poor bastards, it said, like a Greek chorus of one. My mother dabbed at her eyes with a Kleenex. Gosh, John, can you imagine flying all the way across the country just to take a walk in the woods? Now, honey, I sure can't. But then again, not everyone has a forest in their own backyard. That's a good point, John. That's a very good point.


My parents shifted their gaze toward the large tract of woods just beyond our pasture and looked with satisfaction at the epicenter of the sensible, affordable amusements that kept my brothers and me occupied on a daily basis, a swift running creek, a swamp of frogs and cattails, an old wooden bridge, and the maze of hidden trails that might lead anywhere. Later, when I was less gullible and TV commercials were more persuasive, a new parenting style would evolve, one that included phrases like no and because I said so, but when I entered the sixth grade, I did so with a firm understanding that movie theaters were for the illiterate vacations, for the unimaginative and home delivery for lazy housewives who couldn't cook.


As for amusement parks, they were probably OK if you didn't mind waiting in line all day for the chance to vomit all over your friends. The story you just heard is true the way I heard it anyway, and in approximately 60 seconds, I'm going to call my own mother to see how much of that story she can actually confirm. I was supposed to call her two hours ago, it looks like, but I got jammed up. So if you want to hear an 82 year old woman yell at her son, you're in the right place.


And if you want to see my new show, Six Degrees with Mike Rowe, then you'll want to check out Discovery. Plus, it's the new streaming app from Discovery. Got over 55000 hours of content over there, including my show, Six Degrees, which incidentally, was originally called the way I heard it, because it was based on the stories from this podcast. But then it turned into a much bigger project, as these things sometimes do. And now Six Degrees is best described as a history show for people who don't watch history shows in each episode.


I travel through time and try and connect two seemingly disparate objects. The reviews have been great and the show's a ton of fun to produce and watch, actually, and you can check it out for free during the free trial period you get when you sign up for discovery, plus a discovery plus dot com. That's Discovery plus dot com. Sign up for your free trial and watch six degrees for free. And now I'm calling my mother and hoping the next voice that you hear will be hers.


Hi, how are you doing, Mom? I'm doing OK. How are you doing? I'm doing all right. You're on the podcast. Doing on the podcast? Yeah. What's happening? Oh, like, right now. Why wait? We're busy people.


OK. All right. Well, what do I do? Well, pretty much whatever you want. Have I called you at a bad time?


Well, you told me you might be calling me two hours ago, so I was ready two hours ago.


If you if you check your email, you'll see that I sent you a resume invite, but you didn't respond. So I thought, well, you probably don't want to resume. Maybe you just want to talk. So now I'm just calling you and recording our conversation because literally dozens of fans of the way I heard it are desperate to hear your voice and wallow in what I'm sure will be a long list of words and wisdom.


Oh, golly. And he swallowed this mouthful of food. Sit down at my desk here. I'll try not to disappoint. Did I really call you in the middle of dinner? Well, in the middle of preparation and dead sound asleep. So we're OK.


All right.


Well, Dad can sleep and you and I can chat now the the people on the podcast, but I like to call the listeners have just heard Chapter five of my book, which means they heard the story I wrote about Margaret Mitchell and then the story about you and Dad trying to raise your three sons. Are you familiar with that body?


I am familiar with that. Yes. That story was that story was funny. I enjoyed it.


Is it more or less the way you heard it, the way you remember it, as far as you know?


Oh, well, I would say that there's some slight hyperbole in there.


Explain what hyperbole means to some of my listeners who might not know that kind of fancy talk. Hyperbole is exaggeration. It's based on fact. But but there's a little bit of exaggeration in there. I'd say just a little like what parts?


Well, Michael, you make it sound like terrible parents. Like we never we never did anything good for you. We deprived you of all kinds of entertainment. And that wasn't so I mean, we were raising children on a shoestring. That's true because your father was a teacher and teachers don't make a pile of money and your mother stayed home with the children.


Now, why are you suddenly talking about yourself in the third person? I don't know. Like, don't be so particular.


I'm just saying if to tell you have because when you lapse into bouts of hyperbole and exaggeration, because you're fundamentally honest, I've noticed that you referred to yourself in the third person. And I think that gives you a certain extra agency to to prevaricate.


Well, I just said that your father was asleep. That's third person. No, your mother had a mouth full of food. All right. In the story.


No, no, wait. It's rare that you misspeak. But when you tell me that my father is asleep, that's not third person.


He's my father and he's not talking to talk about yourself in the third person is different, isn't it?


A little bit. All right. I didn't know you would be so specific. Pardon me. I just wanted to say that you portray your parents in a light that wasn't altogether accurate, although it was based on it was based on fact. But you did prevaricate just a little bit.


Look, but the broad strokes are true. Dad was incredibly parsimonious and you both were very inventive. I mean, you did engender in me a certain pity for the well off you really did, whether you meant to or not. And I, I thought that was kind of ingenious, really.


Well, I don't believe that was our intention. You know, let's be fair here. We gave our children a lot of experiences when we when we took care. Lots of places. We gave you a lot of. Yeah. You have a nice history. Like you did a lot of stuff growing up. I mean, we took you to the circus. We took you to the fair. We took you to the zoo. We joined the YMCA so that you could go swimming every day in the summer and have swimming lessons.


So don't come off as this kid know this poor. Child, which you right now, so it's true that when we took you to the circus, we packed our own snacks, we didn't we didn't want to cut and candy and the popcorn and the Cracker Jacks and the peanuts that were so expensive, we had our own little bag of treats. So that's true. You know, I will confess to that. And when we went to the fair, we packed a picnic lunch and they had picnic tables.


And instead of buying the incredibly expensive food there, we had our own picnic basket.


I vividly remember all of that. But the thing that you're forgetting is that you took it a step further.


Like I never when you pulled out the popcorn, I remember at the circus, you pulled the popcorn out of your purse. And and the whole proposition was an, oh, no, we're too poor to buy the expensive popcorn. It was our popcorn is better.


It's handier. It's more convenient. We don't have to get up. We don't have to pay for it. Obviously, that that was just one small thing, but it was more about look at all those poor people standing in line waiting to buy popcorn where we have it with us right now because we're forward thinking people, because we planted there might have been a little of that.


Yes, I do confess that we we might have led you to believe that you were altogether fortunate for having a special popcorn that came from your mother's purse. Yes, right.


And never, never did I feel like I was missing out, you know, going to the YMCA and swimming. And I mean that that was the whole point. I never felt neglected until I got older and realized the degree to which you were manipulating us. But fundamentally, the whole story is a compliment on child rearing at a time when money was tight and you didn't want your kid to feel like victims. Yeah, I guess that's true.


Money was tight and we tried to give you the experiences that were wholesome for children, you know, without breaking the bank, so to speak. And our our popcorn was superior. It was it was better than the other. You know, there was filled with butter and flavoring and it was just plain popcorn and was much better for you.


Right. Because it allowed us to use our imaginations to wonder what normal popcorn tasted like, the kind with flavor in it because you didn't know what you were missing because you never had that kind.


And when we took you to the movies, we always took our snacks to our days. They don't allow snacks to come in your purse. They frown on that. They want you to buy, you know, but back then, it didn't matter.


When's the last time you actually went to a movie? I mean, obviously pre covid you haven't been out of the apartment. But when's the last time you were in a theater? Oh, my goodness.


Like trying to remember what we saw. I can't even remember, you know, maybe about five years ago we went to a movie. Isn't that terrible?


Well, I remember you telling me you went to see you wanted to see a film and you wound up walking into I thought, was it something about Mary?


Oh, yeah, that's right. I think it's when we go to the movies, when you're on vacation, when in the winter, when we go to Florida, we stay with your brother for sometimes a couple of months or a month. Sometimes we'll go to the movies when we go out there. Yes, we did. We went into one movie and we were really shocked. I think it was something about Mary. She somebody was standing at the door and they had something in their hair that was really disgusting.


And I think we turned around and walked out and we went into the little theater right next to it. It was one of these complexes where they had five, five movie theaters all the way. Yeah. And we we sneaked into the next one and we like that movie better. Oh, that was Mr. Holland's Opus. It has been a while since we went, but it was good.


So you went to see a heartwarming story of of a music teacher and wound up seeing Cameron Diaz standing at the door with a suspicious substance, causing her hair to stick straight up?


Yeah, actually, we went to that one first something about Mary because it sounded wholesome. I probably thought it was a religious film and we were shocked. And we turned around and walked out. We didn't stay real long. I'm sure it was a good movie and we did give it a fair chance. But Mr. Holland's Opus was really great.


OK, well, look, you're on the podcast because you were the subject of the previous story. And I told the people on Facebook I was going to invite you on and and they wanted me to ask you all sorts of questions, but it's all book related.


Everybody wants to know if there's a third book coming and we know what it what it feels like to be, you know, as ancient as you are and somehow or another began a whole new third act in your life and so forth and so on.


So if you want to brag about yourself, this is the time to do it.


Well, I am still upright. You know, I'm in pretty good health and I do love to write and I seem to be able to do it fairly well. And I am on my third book. I have finished about I've done about 10 stories, but a few of them need more work. So I'm I I'm finished about seven stories, but I have a long way to go. So it will probably be another year before it's ready. And this is the fun part.


I mean, the writing part is really and you know that yourself, it's really enjoyable to sit down and write. The not so fun part is after you finish and then you and is handed to the publisher and he has all kinds of requests and then you've got to flog it.


You have got to plug that thing until you hate it. And then you have to keep talking about how much you love it.


Well, you know, this has been really unusual because my book was launched April 14th this year, the same time that the pandemic came about. Whereas you like to say the plague, the plague was launched the same time my book was launched. And, you know, marketing a book during a pandemic is very interesting. Thank heavens for them. I've got a lot of book events on them, but I do best live audiences like people give you a lot more feedback.


There's so much more interesting than the dead ones.


It's like, oh, well, you know what I'm doing tomorrow?


I mean, this is a Sunday right now. When you and I are recording this. I'm spending every day this week I will be talking about Discovery Plus and Six Degrees. And it's going to be super weird because obviously there was enormous news last week and that's going to be sucking all the air out of the room.


So think about me. I'll be on the Today show at some point Tuesday or Wednesday, I think.


Oh, I'm going to write that down like on the Today show, OK, Tuesday or Wednesday. I'll look it up. Look it up. You're going to be anywhere else.


Yeah, there's a whole long list of things. There's a satellite media tour on Wednesday or Thursday, which means I'll just be, you know, on dozens of different stations all over. I just sit down here in my office where I am right now, and I'll be escaping and zooming in.


And it's really funny because, you know, now I don't have to get on a plane. I don't have to fly to New York. I don't have to check in on expensive hotel. And I don't have to spend four days and cars running all over town. What I do instead is I just sit here and reach four times more people, but go completely out of my mind because you're just sitting here for twelve hours in a row over and over and over.


Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. It could get boring I think. Well, do you have a minute for an unsolicited critique because I have had time to watch your first episode of Six Degrees. Yeah. Yeah. I finally figured out how to do it. I haven't figured out how to get it on the TV yet. I know we can do it, but so far I've just watched it on the computer. That hasn't seen it yet, but I really enjoyed it and so did my dentist.


I went to the dentist the other day and he asked me if I'd seen it yet. I said yeah, he said we really enjoyed it. So that's that's good news. And I think my dermatologist might have seen it too. She was in such a hurry, you know, she gets you in and out in a hurry. But anyway, I loved it. I didn't realize it's very highly produced. I mean, there's so many special effects and and it's informative and it's educational.


And I love Chuck. Every time I turn around, there's Chuck, there's another character. And, you know, it's really funny. It's kind of funny because I sort of had a drink every time I saw Chuck was like a little drinking game with me. I thought, oh, Chuck, I'll have a little sip of this.


Yeah, that's the police. Look, oh, look, he's young. Anyway, I liked it, that's not the game you want to play with this show because Chuck is literally in every scene upstaging me at every possible turn.


But, yeah, I'm I'm glad you like it. I hope Dad likes it. Being a history teacher, you know, are taking it pretty hard.


I'm going to show it to him tonight. I'm going to bring it up on my on my computer again tonight. And we'll watch the first episode again. I'll let you know. I'll let you know what he thinks about it, but he'll like it. I mean, it's it's hard for us to be objective. You know, we like everything or most things that our children do. This is this is not true.


You've been brutally honest with me over the years on a number of occasions about various ways I've disappointed you in my chosen field.


Well, I have to say this. This show is a lot cleaner than dirty jobs. You look a lot cleaner and you haven't done anything disgusting so far. And you really look good, Mike. You look really fit well and so does Chuck.


You know what Chuck lost? Thirty, thirty, thirty five pounds, I think. Thirty pounds. Wow. Yeah. Well, maybe you were a good influence. You think the fact that you.


I know I was you know, I, I hadn't been in the office for a long time and I went down there and I lost forty and you know, Chuck was just enormous at the time. I thought now that's no good. So yeah, during the pandemic, he's walked like five or six miles a day.


Oh, that's good. You know, over the course of my adulthood, I've probably lost about five hundred pounds. I've gone on a lot of diets and really I should be the size a little charm. I got charm on a charm bracelet. I have lost so much weight over the years, but I just can't seem to stick with it now.


Who cares. You're ready to eat what you want, right? When you feel like it, say whatever life I will be.


Eighty three and a couple of weeks. Is that scary? Oh my God.


That's right. And you know what? This this year just sucks so bad. When? Last year.


I guess this year's not off to a great start, but you guys had your sixtieth wedding anniversary to do anything.


Yeah, I know. Oh well we'll catch up. Look what we're doing now. Get together. I mean, in the gift category. Oh, you you'll be able to give us something pretty soon.


We are dying to go someplace, any place. You know what I did this morning? We went to church and guess who we took with us. You will never guess you physically.


When we physically went to church this morning, we've been doing that. Sanctuary's large and we have a skeletal congregation coming. Maybe twenty people and the rest are on Zoome And we took someone near and dear to our hearts with us this morning who wake up pretty. You said to us to Freddy Masks and they had to kiss. I mean, these are real like photographs of Freddy. So we took Freddy to church this morning and he said, Where are we?


I've never seen a place like that. Never takes me to church.


Very, very funny. And I think he enjoyed it. There was a solo today and it was called His Eyes on the Sparrow. And I think Freddy like that because I've seen him eyeing the birds in your backyard.


Well, I've seen him more than I like them, in fact. Oh, no. Yeah, this is terrible. I, I don't think I ever wrote about this or certainly told you, but he is we were coming back from a walk and there was a rustling in the ivy and he and he jumped over the retaining wall and a bird had fallen out of the nest. It's a baby bird. And Fred picked up the bird in his mouth.


And I still wasn't sure what it was that he ate. He ran over to me and, you know, he kind of reared up on his hind legs. And all that was sticking out were the little birds feet. And I said, Oh, Fred, give me the bird, open your mouth.


And he bit down and swallowed and the bird was gone. He swallowed. Yeah.


And so his dog was all this really I mean, and his and his teeth were on the sparrow. Oh.


Just, you know, just got low nature. Take care. Look, everybody thinks he's just this adorable little creature, you know, and he is. But in the end he'll he'll eat you alive.


Oh. I mean. It is nature, really, it's you know, he's programmed he's programmed to catch to catch small things, I think, and that he did. Hey, if you have anything else you want to say, go to say, because we were talking for 20 minutes.


I can't imagine anybody really going to listen to us do this, but you really never know.


I'm sure they hung up a long time ago or they turned turned it off. No, I don't have anything profound to say. I have to go in the kitchen now and fix supper for us. Your father and your mother. Is he still sleeping? I don't hear him.


So I think he has had an extra long walk today, you know, so I will be all right. He's pushed. What are you having for dinner? What do you make it?


I was going to have a salad, but I forgot to buy tomatoes. So I'm having some roast beef sandwiches and a little platter of cold veggies and dip. I've got broccoli and carrots and some cauliflower. So. So we're eating healthy. You don't have to worry about us, OK? All right.


Well, before I say goodbye, I need to remind people that they can download my book, listen to the audio version of it wherever people do that. And yeah, because I promised the publisher I would I would tell people that.


So I'm a promise made as a dead, unpaid mom, as you may have heard.


Well, Michael, I don't know why you guys didn't send me a box. You sent me one book and I gave that to my sister. And now I thought I had a book. I thought I had a book on the table because I not read it. But it was your book cover, but it was not a dummy book. It was another book inside. It was very disappointing.


It just told me this book. So just so people know, what happens is before you get the book off the press, you have to start hawking it. So the publisher sends you old books, doesn't matter what it is, and and they put the cover on it. So you have something to hold up, right, when they take your pen. And so that's what we did. And we were in Baltimore. You were there and we were doing an ad for the book.


And you must have taken that book home because Chuck told me when he told you that I wanted to call you and talk to you about Chapter five, that you picked up the book and started reading Chapter five, which is not Chapter five in my book. Absolutely not.


This was about women being in charge. I think it makes sense. And I didn't remember a title, as you know, from your book like this anyway. So, OK, so maybe chuckle Send me another book.


He might he might not. You know, I got one here.


I'll send it to you, OK? Because my sister was just desperate for one. It's twenty four. Ninety five. Oh OK.


The checks in the mail, I don't expect it any time soon. Your brothers just got their Christmas gift and they actually you know what, the paperback version is coming out.


So sit tight, I'll get you one of those for free.


Oh is it. Oh that's even better. That's not as heavy for arthritic hands. I can read that in books in there. Yes, I do need to read it again. All right. I got to go. I love you. I love you too. All right. I enjoyed doing so. Still there. Is Chuck there?


No, no, he's he was back east, but he's back he's back in L.A. waiting for me to finish this recording so I could send it to him so he can post it.


Oh, OK. All right. I bet this was fun. You call me any time.


Do I have to record it each time? No.


No, you don't. In fact, I prefer you not to. And if you do, you let me know ahead of time because you never know what I might say.


Thanks for coming by my humble little podcast, mother. I do love honey. I wouldn't miss your podcast. Love them. All right. It's a it's a privilege to be on it.


Go good bye. Bye bye.


Well, there she is. My mother. I hope you enjoyed her. I miss her and apologize for the audio, but I couldn't figure out our normal microphone. So I'm just talking to you off the computer. Anyway, let me know how boring this was over on my Facebook page. Thank you. And I'll talk to you next week.