You're listening to Teip, do you eat food, do you like making money? If you answered yes to either of these questions, you were going to thoroughly enjoy today's episode, where I sit down with billionaire Jim Melen to discuss his new book, Mouz Law, which is all about the future of food and how we as investors can profit. CNBC has referred to Jim as Britain's answer to Warren Buffett, and he brings a wealth of knowledge to our very wide ranging discussion.
This episode, we covered Jim's framework for the current market conditions, the future of food, human longevity, the revolution occurring in sustainable energy, and much, much more. I was honored to have the opportunity to sit down with Jim and I learned a ton. So without further ado, please enjoy this discussion with Jim Molan.
You are listening to the Investor's podcast where we study the financial markets and read the books that influenced self-made billionaires the most. We keep you informed and prepared for the unexpected. All right, everybody, welcome to the show, I am here with Jim Melen. Jim, thank you so much for coming on the show. I really can't wait for this discussion. There's a lot to talk about. All of it is really interesting to me. So I can't wait to dig in.
Thanks for coming on the show. Thank you, Trey. And I guess you've got Scottish roots like I do as well with a name like Lockerbie, right. That is correct, my family heritage is one hundred percent Scottish. I'm here on. A soldier, so, Jim, let's get right down to brass tacks with 20, 20 behind us. Where do you see these markets going from here? Well, that is a very good question, and if I knew the answers, I probably would be sitting in the Bahamas rather than in Spain at the moment.
But my general view is that we're in a very frothy situation. I mentioned that you probably agree with me on that. I was intrigued. But GameStop, for instance, doubled yesterday and then the after hours that that asset, again, the Robin Hood boys. And so I don't suppose that whole mania is over quite yet, but I can't believe that it's not too far from the end. My partner, who's here, she represents some of the companies are involved in this area.
And it's been a very hectic period for her because the amount of press coverage has been incredible. And but it seems to be abating at the moment. I don't know. I my own view is that you should stay very well clear of overpriced stocks. I think you just lose your money if you do so. So I'm assuming you're saying that because we're starting to see the interest rates rise, so do you think that we'll finally start to see a cyclical rotation back into value stocks?
I think we've already done that, I mean, we've already seen that rotation back to value stocks. I mean, the tech stocks have been weak to flat for quite a period now. I'm actually short, Taza. I think that's going down by at least another 50 percent. And but what I really look at is the money supply increase in the United States, which has been at the beginning there was phenomenal, as you probably know, as close to 25 percent, which is hyperinflationary style money increase at a time when the economy is probably going to bounce back quite quickly.
So I have all sorts of supply capacity constraints which will lead to higher inflation. But the Fed is clearly doing something to beat that because the money supply growth has been much, much lower in the last two or three weeks, which is one of the reasons you're seeing the rise in interest rates. I would stay away from bonds. Do you think the US dollar probably has further to fall with volatility on the way, but your own market has been buoyed by massive amounts of stimulation, monetary printing and so forth, and it's got to end in tears.
I mean, I've been around I've been doing this now for 30 something years. And I would say that this is up there with 2000 and also up there with 2007. We've got we've got a big problem coming. Well, one sector in particular that's been especially beaten down lately is the financial sector, and you've had a lot of success investing in things like banks. So I'm curious, is now the time to load up on bank stocks? Well, that's a great question.
I mean, my own view is that I saw something that UN secretary for long term growth, and that's definitely been the right way to play banks. But I think that in the US, you've got some great community or local banks that will probably be subject to acquisition as time goes on and a very high quality. And the US banks have been recapitalized since the financial crisis, the last financial crisis very well. They're not going to experience the level of fines and penalties that they had in the last 10 years.
And they're probably good buys in the UK. I've been accumulating Lloyds Bank, which is our biggest, but your listeners is our biggest retail bank and mostly almost entirely exposed to the British economy, which I think will do quite well actually in the next couple of years. They announced quite good results yesterday. I think he about to people about four times as a dividend yield of seven or eight percent. So I would load up on that, that we like the US banks, that Lloyds is very well capitalized.
So little danger that you're going to lose all your money and something like that. But, you know, you play it for 50 per cent rise and then you get out of it, as you would with the US banks. So I also want to get your take on Japan, because you've had a lot of success there as well, and Buffett recently announced that he's invested in the five largest Japanese trading houses.
So what are your thoughts on that move? Well, I think he's a super smart individual, if you ask me, I started my career by investing, working for an investment company that was investing in Japan a long time ago. And in 1989, not too long after I started work, the Japanese market hit its all time peak, which has never been exceeded. And even though the market's been going up recently, it's still below the level it was.
I don't know if you know this trade, but in after the war, when all the financial institutions in Japan were reconstituted, I think it was nineteen forty eight. The Nikkei index was called the Nikkei Dow Jones Index. And the reason it was called that was because it was aligned exactly with the Dow Jones index. And so they were both then at about one hundred and twenty. But my recollection of it wasn't I wasn't around then. But if my recollection is correct and for early period of my career, the Japanese index was, I would say, 20 or 30 times higher than the Dow Jones in the United States.
So they had this enormous rise. And today at the same level, the Dow is about the same level as the Nikkei. So Japan is a really interesting is very good at us that question, because I would say that Japan is absolutely going to have a further move upwards, partly because it's reached those horrible levels that were reached in nineteen eighty nine, and partly because Japanese companies are full of cash, partly because they have really good companies in many cases, and partly because Japanese savers have monumental amounts of money on which they're running.
And now the Japanese companies are paying more dividend. And so load up on Japan. I think that's a very good idea. Well, I know you've got your sights set on a number of other sectors as well, so why don't you give us a breakdown of, say, your top three? So basically, I look at investment as a thematic, so your big money will be made and something that you really research, that you really understand and they go only into and that you have probably a diversified approach to.
And then underneath it, there's the shorter term market stuff that we all do. Like you do try and I do. And the short term stuff, the way I look at it, pays the bills and I get the salary of your employees or my employees. But the longer term matter thematic stuff is stuff that will allow you and me to be solvent when we're much older. And your case, that's a long way off. In my case, hopefully I've still got two years and productive life left to me.
So in terms of metter things, I think there are three massive metal things at the moment. One is climate change, and the problem is that green energy and green things are extremely highly valued in the stock market. And, you know, if you look at hydrogen companies or you look at lithium companies, so you look at solar panel industries of any type or wind farms or whatever, that the yields or the free cash flow multiples on, those are extremely high.
So I of that that the longevity industry is really interesting to me. And we have our own company, in essence, which reflects that where we know that it's going to be possible to manipulate aging so that people can live longer and healthier. We just don't know exactly how that's going to happen. So we've taken multiple bets and to the essence as a company that's going to go public relatively soon. And then the last one is the revolution in agriculture, because we can't sustain the level of intensive farming around the world when the Indians and Chinese in particular want huge amounts more of animal protein, which causes massive environmental destruction, human health problems and pandemics.
And so we need to find alternative. So I've been massively, massively investing and starting companies in my area underneath the that times of the day to day trading, I would say went very high on the US market opportunity in Japan as a positive feature. I think the UK market is extremely cheap for reasons I'll be happy to explain to you. And I think that overall you should be out of bonds because the yields are in some cases negative and in many cases are negligible and we're heading into a period of inflation and that you should be positioned for a commodity super boom, which in the middle of nowhere, not even in the middle or in the early stages, all and my favourite metals, gold, silver and platinum.
I'm a very simple approach to what's going on at the moment in the world. I think we can do very well over the next year or so. So I'm super excited about prospects of making large amounts of money in the next couple of years.
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Futurist Ray Kurzweil has famously said that humans will ultimately achieve immortality. Do you think he's right? And is it a good idea? No idea. I mean, it's like saying Bitcoin could go to three hundred thousand dollars or a million dollars or whatever. I think that is it's almost a headline grabbing statement. And it doesn't, frankly speaking, in my opinion, do the longevity industry any good, because there have been multiple pronouncements over the last five thousand years about some secret that will keep you alive forever, something that will an elixir of youth that will rejuvenate you.
Nothing has worked. And even today, the industry is about one hundred and fifty billion dollars around the world and none of that stuff works. But what's happening is since the unveiling of the human genome, scientists have discovered pathways of aging because even you, but especially me to age. And those pathways can be manipulated in all mammalian species and in many cases, including in odds to slow or to halt or to reverse the aging factors that those pathways cause we are in the dial up phase of the Internet.
These are the longevity industry. It's very difficult to know exactly what's going to work. But I personally know that it is going to work and it will be totally revolutionary. Nineteen hundred in your country and in my country, average life expectancy was about 40 separate. But today, if you make it to 65, you're very I mean, more than 95 percent likely to make it 90. So the whole of our life expectancy and the way in which we conduct our lives has changed dramatically in the last one hundred and twenty years.
None of that has occurred because of any pharmaceutical or therapeutic intervention. It's all because of better sanitation or vaccines or antibiotics, less infant mortality, et cetera, et cetera. Now we've got the possibility of actually changing our fundamental biology, allowing us to live for maybe 110 or 120. And that's my aspiration. But more importantly, to live those extra years in a robust and healthy condition, not sitting in a chair, dribbling away, waiting for the Grim Reaper to come and take us away, but are not being sick with cancer or heart disease or diabetes or Alzheimer's or whatever.
And that's the great prize that is here and now. And the science is catching up with the aspiration of all of us to have a robust and healthy life from a much bigger part of our lives, which may even be longer lines. It seems like a big component of the success of human longevity lies in the evolution of artificial intelligence. And Google's deep mind, for example, recently had a breakthrough with alpha foaled that could have a very promising impact on the future of medicine.
So does this make you inherently bullish on artificial intelligence? Yes, and obviously a product of innocence is devoted to EHI, loggi to accelerate the process of drug discovery so that, for instance, our affiliate company and silico medicine based in Hong Kong. Now, theoretically, at least, develop a new compound and specific compound in 30 days as opposed to the historical three years and can also probably in due course, develop a drug for new personalized drug or for me, personalized drug.
I think I is going to be a very big factor in accelerating the growth of science. But it won't just be obviously for longevity, for the diseases. But I depends on massive data sets and those data sets are not as readily available as they should be. The UK is has got the best data sets available to scientists because of the NHS, the National Health Service, which is a unified system. And as a result, there is a very big compendium of information available for scientists in the UK, which I encourage people to look at if they want to.
Well, so does that mean there's an inherent competitive advantage with European companies? I wouldn't say so, I mean, I think this is free to use for any scientific advance in the world, and there is no doubt, as in so many other areas, that the US is far, far ahead of other countries in terms of longevity, science, big science and the other areas that I'm interested in. The only area which is maybe being battered is where the Chinese seem to be, possibly even ahead of the United States.
And so but generally speaking, the fact the source of all the great technologies in the world is the US, and that should be applauded, really. So how do you see the timeline for the whole human longevity technology sort of unfolding and what does it look like for Big Pharma along the way? Great question. So basically, my view is that within 20 years, life expectancy at birth will be one hundred and ten. In the developed world, you will have the old paradigm of form, learn and retire and inspire will be changed because people they all be learning as a continuum throughout their lives.
Relationships will change well, patterns will change, etc.. And so we're very, very close to that point. Years ago, I got a pilot's license and a guy who was teaching me told me that if there's something in the distance that's a static object, when you're looking out of the cockpit, it's coming straight at you. It may not look like it's moving, but it's coming straight at you. And that's the same with longevity. This is going to happen much quicker than people think or even someone like myself.
I think there's an extremely good chance. My dad's 92 years old, but I'll live to 100. You certainly will live to 100. And so you need to take care of your financial planning, your planning, all sorts of stuff. And we're almost there. We're almost there. So I'm extremely bullish, but I'm not bullish like Ray Kurzweil, who makes a very specific forecast. By 2040, the singularity will be here, which means that every year that you live, you'll get more than a year of extra life.
I think that that's I'm not saying I don't think that's a wild prediction that I wouldn't have made. You mentioned your short Tesla and could see that going down quite a bit further, but they've also kind of become the poster child for this green revolution. So what other renewable energy companies might you be considering if you're bullish on the space?
Not a lot of good question. I mean, basically, I think that almost everything to do with the Green Revolution was worthy and wonderful and bright and obviously impactful and necessary is too highly priced. The reason I mean, I've got nothing against Tesla. I wish I was Elon Musk. What a life he must live. Is that even today at seven hundred and something billion dollars, it is worth more than every other car company in the world put together.
And the folks at B.W. or BMW or Jaguar or GM, Ford are not stupid. They're catching up if they haven't already caught up very, very quickly. So to justify the current valuation of Tesla, you have to have a remarkable view on their prospects. And they don't have that remarkable view. I think that Tesla, as I said earlier, could go down by 50 percent from this level quite easily. Would be very jagged on the way. But it's way over high way over expensive company.
And notwithstanding all the stuff about storing energy on our batteries and the solar panels on roofs and all the other stuff that Elon Musk dreamed up in Tesla, it's expensive company. And they all those situations and my house, my experience always end up in tears. So from a renewable energy point of view, I don't think there's anything that I can see that's worth investing in. But if you look at what are the causes of emissions around the world, its principal is one of them.
But the biggest cause is intensive farming. The biggest cause of global warming is has emitting missing methane into the atmosphere. It's as simple as that, along with pigs, chickens, ducks, which, by the way, are a big component of food supply in China and cheap. And they are. And since the Second World War, increasingly intensively farmed in the United States, 99 percent of your agriculture is intensive, which means the animals get fed inside and feed lots and quite often kept and fed what you and I would consider to be cruel conditions.
But they're also the biggest contributor to global emissions, more so than transport. Even if Elon Musk electrifies the whole world, we know that some of the electricity that goes into producing the electricity to fuel power, the cause is bad electricity. But if we could cut the amount of food that was produced intensively, then we make a much bigger dent in global emissions at that point. So in the United States, again, the leader in technology and so many things, you've got the plant based revolution that's taken off like a rocket with the all but impossible.
And so for them to actually be fair in Europe as well, in the UK, you've got corn, you've got leafless farms, you live kindly and ugly, which is going to go public quite soon. So that's the first wave of the revolution. But what I'm very interested in and why we are the biggest investors in the world and this particular area is in cellular agriculture where you grow meat, materials, seafood and labs. And again, the leading companies are generally in the United States, but not entirely in the United States.
But in 10 years time, you and I will be eating seafood that's made in a lab, will be eating meat that's made in the lab. We'll be eating we'll be using leather that's made in the lab, will be using friends that are made in the lab. And this is here and that it's all of these companies have a product. The question is scale up. That's my book is Mouz Law, which is just come out, which is about this very industry and how you can have investors can profit from it.
And just as an aside, all the proceeds go to the Good Food Institute, which is the largest advocacy group for this in the world. It's necessary that we move away from eating. Animals are intensively farmed because often the animal cruelty side, which was the basic appeal for me, because I don't think the environmental destruction plus the pandemic risk, I mean, do we want to go through another pandemic that's caused by animal to human transmission because we become bacteria resistant to antibiotics, because 80 percent of antibiotics go into farm animals?
No, we don't. So, for heaven's sake, let's change the food supply. The technology is possible. It's here and now. And it's going to be on plates in the United States and in Europe and elsewhere in the world in the very near future. Well, I can hear how passionate you are about this topic, which I am also really excited to talk about, and you mentioned beyond meat, so I want to start there.
So beyond meets, market value is already north of about 10 billion dollars, which is about half of another company like, say, Tyson Foods, for example. But Tyson Foods is producing three billion dollars of profit, whereas beyond meat is losing hundreds of millions of dollars a year for now.
But it begs the question, how innovative is the odd meat, given that incumbents like Tyson are already producing plant based products? Well, I think Beyonce, a great company, and for my book, Mazlo Law, I interviewed Ethan Brown, who I think is super nice, motivated, mission driven person, and I'm a big fan of his, but he's involved in is an industry but doesn't have a lot of IP protection, intellectual property protection, because to be quite honest, Trey, you and I could set up a file based meat company tomorrow and there are plenty of them around.
And you're right, Tyson or Kellogg's or Unilever or Nestlé, all the big food companies are doing exactly that. So he's got a lot of potential competition on his hands. But the difference between what he does and what the sell and what a growing food materials in laboratories is that they have special intellectual property is robust and iPads. And it makes it very hard for Trey and Jim to go off and do exactly what they're doing because we would be litigated out of business.
So this is why I prefer that. The other reason I prefer that is that our base mates are coming down in price and they will probably come down to the price of conventional meats. They're not necessarily better for your health, but clearly need scroller laboratories or seafood grown in laboratories, have the capacity of coming down below the price of conventional things better and taste, texture and better for health. Because they have Tulsans, they won't have equal material that's leaked into the product, which in the United States, by the way, causes one in six people in the United States to be in bed every year because of food poisoning.
They won't have antibiotics in them or hormones or in the case of seafood, mercurial micro plastics. So there is absolutely no reason why we, you and me, when we're allowed to, we can share a meal. Why do so eating like grown foods? Because they'll be just so much better for us and for the planet.
Well, what you're referring to there is what you call in your book, Griddle Parity, and I just love that name. We'll be below parity within 10 years, and critical parity, obviously, is a risk like these lawyers of an established indicator where great parity is when the price of renewable energy goes below that or goes to the same level as fossil fuel derived energy. And it's the same with cell ipass at some point they'll come down to the level or below the level of conventional meat.
And then the tipping point is arrived. In the US this year, you'll be close to a quarter of your milk market will be alternative mills a quarter. It was nothing 10 years ago. And so Bouldin fees have gone bust because they can't sustain the production of conventional dairy products when they have such effective competition on their doorsteps. And so I'm I think this is right for everyone. And even the farmers can benefit from a whole all of reasons that are included in this law.
But within 10 years, that's not very long. You'll have at least half the meat market will be farm based or so based, at least half. And I'm all for that, don't get me wrong, but I do want to kind of pose the counterargument here, because, you know, there's a saying that there's no free lunch. And while these products might be tremendously beneficial for the environment, you have any concerns about what they're actually doing for our bodies because some of these products are downright junk food status.
I think that's right. And as I said earlier, I don't think that the Paul based views are necessarily better for you than conventional means, but the sohag is completely different because that is the best of species. Right. Have to come out without any of the contaminants and in numbers, all the other stuff that you're referring to, quite rightly on the one stuff. But I wouldn't say a plant based manufacture is all cognizant of that while doing something about it.
And we're seeing today beyond is reengineering its products all the time to be healthier, to have less saturated fat, to have less stuff that is necessarily very good for you. And so Ethan Brown was telling me that he is going to keep producing better and better products that will be better for human health. So but at the moment, you're right, it's bad stuff is not necessarily better for you than eating the conventional stuff.
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So in your book, you feature a few companies you're invested in in this space. For example, Blue Nalu, who is producing cell-based seafood and motza meat plant based meats. But those are private companies. So I'm curious, are there any other companies publicly traded that our audience could get involved in now or that you're keeping a close eye on? There aren't I mean, the only company is hyperventilates, which is the biggest shale growth, which is an investment vehicle listed in the London Stock Exchange, which invests in this industry.
But as yet, none of these companies have gone public. There will be, of course, companies that go public over the next couple of years. And in the news law, I suggest the ones that you might want to be looking at from a public point of view, because I think they'll be great investments going forward. And among them, of course, is Blue Nile, which is going to have a product on the US market by the end of this year, approved by the FDA.
And it will be a fabulous replica. That's not really good because it is. It's mahimahi. And then they'll have bluefin tuna not very long after that. So it is incredible. I wish I was closer to you today because I think that we are entering a period of such remarkable change and innovation to those who can handle change and not everyone can. This is going to be a remarkable period, not just the opportunity for investors, but also just as human beings, just the wonderful stuff that's going to happen.
So with companies like Blue Nalu who are doing this so-called sell based seafood, tell us a little bit about what that is. Is it a 3D printed food? Is it grown in a Petri dish or what is it? I think the easiest way of presenting this is using a conventional meat example. So let's talk about cows. Seafood is exactly the same, by the way. But so let's say that you have a cow and it's living in your backyard.
And we want to and it's a very good cow in every way. It's very healthy. It's type of meat that you would have a killer, but it's type of meat would be very favorable for us. So what we did speak to how we take two point five milliliters, which is a tiny amount. It's less like a nail. Right. Small nail fluid from it. It doesn't even feel anything. We then take that. We extract the stem cells, which will be passed the cells, the one that may also grow from babies or fetuses.
And we differentiate those stem cells by bathing them in nutrients. And growth has become the cells that we want, which are the muscle cells, the next tissue cells and the fat cells to produce meat in a nutshell. But 2.5 milliliters sample can produce three thousand kilos or nearly 7000 pounds in meat, which is the equivalent of seven cattle. They would take 20 to 30 months to grow and feed lot. And we can produce that 3000 kilos or 7000 pounds of meat in 40 days.
That's the process. So we take the genetic code effectively of the cow. We don't modify it at all. There's no genetic modification. You it in the same kind of nutrients as InFocus was sitting in a feedlot or was in a field. You use growth factors which are well known growth factors, and you grow it a large stainless steel containers, and that is bioreactors. Then all the various bits back together and you have me and that's how it happens.
To talk to us a little bit about the ancillary benefits of producing food this way, for example, the lack of water that's needed or the lack of produce or crops. Seventy percent of all crops grown around the world, including those from the Amazon or the Amazon jungle, which has been cut down to grow soybeans and therefore causes even more environmental destruction and climate change goes to feed animals. They don't go to feed us. And those animals are very inefficient in batches of wild protein and animal protein.
So if a chicken that's about nine to one and in the case of a cow, it's twenty five to one. So it takes 25 times more inputs for the car to produce one output of meat. Whereas in this process the cell process is about two to one. You can already see the price of lab grown meat could be lower than the price of conventional meat. On top of that, as you rightly point out, right. Each kilo of beef and kilos, two point two pounds takes about 15000 liters of water to produce.
That's a huge amount of water. Farming uses more water than anything else in the world. And 80 percent of antibiotics go into intensively farm animals to both keep them from getting diseases and also to promote their growth. So chicken today, for instance, is three times bigger than the chicken that existed in 1950 because they're genetically engineered to grow much faster and they have miserable and short lives. And the average chicken lives twenty three days before it's slaughtered only three days.
The average dairy cow lives two years, whereas in a field it would live up to 25 years because it's constantly pregnant. Its back breaks because it's others become so big from producing milk all the time. So this is a very cruel profession, very cruel industry, and it's all around the world. It's not just in the US or in Europe. It's everywhere. But the biggest risk is that you pump all these animals full of hormones and antibiotics and they become carriers of diseases that move into humans.
So the swine flu is the bird flus and the latest covid-19 of it will come as a result of close confinement of animals and the transmission of novel disease to humans. Do we want that or can we avoid that by doing something different? We can do something different is here and now. Why wouldn't consumers and everyone on the planet actually want that? Well, you're right, and I think theoretically everyone does want that and it does seem inevitable because it is basically inescapable that we need to convert to a plant based or based food in some bigger fashion moving forward just for sustainability purposes.
But, you know, I actually want to invert my earlier question, asking about disruptors coming into the space, because, you know, you mentioned the incumbents in the auto industry versus Tesla. So I'm curious what your take is on the incumbents in the food space and how encouraging their progress has been in the space. Yeah, that's another great question.
So basically, you've got companies like Unilever or Nestlé or Salon or in the US, Tyson Cargill and the Brazilian company JBS, which are actually either investing in or partnering with some of these cell ag and plant based companies because they know which way the right the writing is on the wall for them. And frankly speaking, these are large companies that will sell. I'm not saying they'll sell anything, but they'll sell any food that consumers want. And that's legal and it's reasonably high quality.
They don't necessarily have to sell it from animals that were slaughtered. So I think you're going to see more and more of these companies buying up or partnering with some of the companies that I mentioned in news law. And in Musil, I talk about sold. I think a lot of these companies will be sold to the majors in the next two years for that intellectual property, although sold because of the way of the world, as we investors all know, is that companies sometimes fail or there'll be a few of them Ibold that will go out and create their own large brands.
So I can possible go beyond that. And if I had to say but my favorite in terms of creating its own large brand brand at the moment is literally in seafood because it's closer to market and it's got a very good management team. But like everything in an early stage in the Internet and the early years or longevity in our period or in food today you need to have a diversified portfolio. Don't put all your eggs or all your food in one basket.
It's better to diversify. So this reminds me of an old Warren Buffett quote where he was talking about the early days of the automotive industry because in the early nineteen hundreds, there were literally hundreds of automobile startups and now there's only a handful. So picking a winner out of the bunch would have been very difficult at the time. And in Buffett's view, the better bet would not have been to go long cars, but rather to go short horses. So in this case, maybe we're shorting cows.
But in any case, do you see sort of an analog to this here? Yeah, definitely, I mean, I think that makes perfect sense, but it's not an easy thing to go because farms are normally owned by individual farmers. They're not they're not listed. And I actually haven't thought that's a good question. I haven't thought about how you go short individual companies in this area. I mean, I think the nearest to it is JBS, the Brazilian company, which is entirely dependent on farming cattle.
But I wouldn't take a Brazilian company. I wouldn't know how to go about that. I think it's much better just to invest in the positivity. I mean, those who went to GameStop on the basis that it was going was a dinosaur that was going to go bust, had lost a lot of money. So it's probably better just to be optimistic and go for the for the positive companies. But definitely short Tesla, even at seven hundred fifteen today, the last time I looked, I think it'll go to 500 or below.
Well, let's kind of touch on the bear case there, because earlier you were talking about the negatives when it comes to electric vehicles and the bad electricity is actually needed to produce the vehicles. And I'm not sure enough people really understand this. So what are the negatives for producing electric vehicles versus something like a hydrogen vehicle? A very good question. So basically, electric cars use a lot of money to be made. They use a lot of copper, nickel and so forth that have to be extracted using a large amount of fossil fuel.
When they're on the road, they use electricity, which is stored in the batteries, and that electricity is in many cases generated by using fossil fuels, particularly coal. So although people might think that Germany is a green country, actually nearly half of its electricity is produced by the burning of coal. So when you're producing coal to make electricity that's used by Tesla cars, is that a green movement? I don't think so. And the same in the United States.
I mean, you're using coal, you're using gas. You're using fossil fuels to produce a large amount of your electricity. The wind power, the solar panels are sort of fraction, a small fraction of the electricity that's produced in the United States. Well, there's this old saying that during a gold rush, you actually want to be selling shovels to the gold miners, right? So with this major revolution into electric vehicles, what's your stance on taking a position in something like mining lithium or any of the other metals that you mentioned earlier?
Great questions. Lithium is the obvious thing and and obviously in the United States, you've got a an issue with importing rare metals and lithium from China and you won't have a domestic and secure supply. So I've been investing. We have a company called Brother Ahead, which is actually named after the view from my house on the Isle of Man. And at some point in the relatively near future will take that company public. It's got a lot of concessions in the United States for the lithium, which I'm super bullish on, super bullish.
So, Jim, we've covered a lot of ground and ultimately I'm just left here wondering what is your ultimate advice for someone who's just getting into these markets? Gave us some brilliant questions, I'm very much appreciative of you having me on the show, I will just say in closing remarks broke out, as I was telling you earlier, the pop quiz that we host every Thursday night, it's very early for a pop quiz where you are, but it's the right time here is.
But in my experience, for what it's worth and I don't think I'm a particularly innovative person, I've been a very competent plagiarist in my life. But in my experience, if you want to be a successful investor, you have to be curious. You have to read a lot. You have to listen to Trace podcast. You have to listen to other podcasts. You have to just be persistent in listening and have an open mind to all sorts of people.
The second thing is you have to be adaptable. You and I know that things change all the time. So we might be very bullish on, let's say, electrification today. But tomorrow hydrogen becomes the big thing. And we we should look at hydrogen, which is coming up on the rails against electrification. I think they are all expensive, but that's the way that I try and think. And the last thing and the most important thing possibly is what I call an application, which is basically of what if you don't put in the hours, you're not going to be a successful investor.
You've got to actually really work at it or a few people like that, but not many. I really want investors to succeed because our capital markets are the things that keep our societies together in a positive way. But they're not going to see if it's just becomes a casino. And the three things I just want to emphasize, number one, curiosity, adaptability and application, the government can do that. Then we're going to have some very success. I know you have a lot of listeners, some very successful listeners.
Well, I think that's wonderful advice and a great note to end on, so, Jim, before you go, I just want to make sure I give you an opportunity to hand off to our audience where they can learn more about you, where they can find your books, your companies and any other endeavors you're involved in. So there's a musical book that's the it's all together in one word website. I would go on to that. You can get the book on Amazon or really any other book selling.
And I think that's a good place to start. But I've really enjoyed talking to you today. I appreciate you asking me. And from one Scotsmen to another, fare thee well. I had a lot of fun, Jim, and I really hope we get to do this again soon. Thanks for coming on the show any time. I loved it. Thank you very much indeed. All right, everybody, for the next part of our show, we're going to take a question from our audience.
So this question comes from Jeff McAllister. Or specifically as to how you all think about these two issues, greed and fear and any insights or perspective that you could provide in terms of how value investors should be thinking about managing these two. And thanks for all you do for your community and look forward to hearing from your. So, Jeff, I really love this question, because you're right, you're getting to the root of it, which is greed and fear, and the best advice that I could give you is the same advice that I actually received from Warren Buffett one time.
And that was to go back and read chapters eight and 20 of the Intelligent Investor, because those chapters are all about the human psychology factor when it comes to investing. And I know that from the outside looking in, especially for new investors, investing looks like just numbers, spreadsheets, formulas. But the revelation a lot of US investors have over time, right, is that no, this is a very emotional roller coaster to put yourself through. And so it's no surprise that the best investors are also probably the most rational people you've ever met.
But there are other tricks you can do as well. So, for example, a lot of the investing platforms allow you to change the color. So, for example, on a down day where it's all red, you can actually make it a green day to say, hey, this is a good time to buy. And beyond that, I would just say it's important to go back to basics a little bit and focus on the fact that you're owning the piece of a real business.
And if you believe in the competitive advantages of that real business to endure the test of time, then it should be something that you can hold on to for the rest of your life. It's not always the case, but in the instance where things are going way up, sometimes I like to reflect back on I think it's a Charlie Munger quote that says, don't just do nothing, stand there. Because, again, if you believe in the core business involved, we're big believers on the show that theoretically you could hold them as long as possible.
To Jeff, I hope that's helpful for you for asking such a great question. We're going to give you free access to our intrinsic value course on the investors podcast Dotcom, as well as our tip finance tool. And trust me when I tell you that these two things are going to help answer your question even further. And the tool itself is incredibly powerful. All right, everybody, that's all we had for you on this week's episode. Be sure to tune in next week where I sit down with Ted Saidi's to talk about how to invest like the best.
And if you haven't done so already, go ahead and subscribe to the feed. Follow me on Twitter at Treh Lockerby. Check out the investor's podcast Dotcom. And especially if you haven't already done so, check out the dream tool we've built for you at Tippee Finance. So with that, we'll see you again next week. Thank you for listening to Tippi, make sure to subscribe to millennial investing by the Investors Podcast Network and learn how to achieve financial independence to access our show notes, transcripts or courses, go to the Investors podcast dot com.
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