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I love doing this, and it's so crazy how long it took us to finally do this. I know I was really covid you had covid. I had covid like Lord Jesus, the crazy. Well, congrats again to you and your wife. Tell her I said hi and excited for ya for the fourth little boy. Yeah.

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Thank you. We're going to send these kids so you can just go through boot camp and you'll be ready for anything big. Send them over to help.

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Well, it's warm. Welcome to the podcast. So excited.

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Oh, no, not as excited as I am. I supposed to be on here with you. Oh, we are so excited to have you. And everyone was also excited because this is Anson DM's one. So people were super stoked when they saw that you were going to be on all the things. So people might not all know this, but you actually sang in our wedding. Yeah, a huge deal, and I don't think so. We haven't got to talk since really that moment because, you know, the wedding so crazy, you go.

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Yeah, but funny story. So thank God you were out there singing and you were crushing it during our little moment. Okay, so at our wedding, Christian and I decided to take communion, which was like going to be such a beautiful moment and stuff like we're so excited. So you come up, you start singing, we go and take Christian and I both start choking on the bread now wearing like straight up like you like, so dry.

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I put it so dry and we look at each other and I was so glad you were singing. People were really distracted by that.

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And I was like, that's so I'm always wondering, like, can we not make it a little better? Like, I understand the symbolism that it's supposed to be like a bitter, like, sorrowful thing. But if we could just get a little just a saltine cracker, it would go a long ways. I am one hundred percent agree on that. We should be because we're sitting there joking. Everybody was so funny. Like, I still talk about that because people tell us the most beautiful moment.

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And it was it was great. But secretly we were like coughing in the grass. So funny. And also y'all are expecting that.

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So, yes, we're expecting our fourth human. It's it's unbelievable. Yeah. So we have three little boys, seven, four and three. And our next one is also a boy and he's he's due in April.

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So that's awesome. So we're due first week of May. So that's right behind you guys. We're expecting our first on our fourth and a little girl, but we're stoked. It's awesome. Congrats cited for you guys. Thank you. Thank you. You too.

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Well, let's get into it. What is the best piece of advice that you have ever been given? The very best. This is a difficult question, but I love that you ask it. I had to really go through my mental file, but I went back to the years before my band was signed and we played at a church in Baytown, Texas, where Leland and Jack Maureen's parents pastor and we went over to their house and, you know, it was our fifteen passenger van and all that.

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And they were just so kind to us. But Leland's mom is this Texas lady, like the quintessential Texas woman. And she said, and let me tell you something, you got to keep your head small, your heart big and your eyes open. Well, and that always stuck with me throughout my whole journey, humility, compassion and vision. And, yeah, good, good stuff from Mama Cindy.

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That's so good. Head, small heart, the eyes open. I love that is like what is clear as full heart. Can't lose that. Yeah that's good. I love that and such good advice. So I recently saw a passion which was so awesome.

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Passion was and it was awesome. My job. Thank you to you. You guys did amazing. Thank you. The whole night was insane. It was so good. And I love your coming in at the end. Sing in your new song All God's Children. Tim kind of talked about how a little bit of the process of why. But can you kind of tell us that story of why I wrote the song and where that idea came from?

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Yeah, well, my wife was talking about human trafficking a lot over the last few months and she hadn't really before. So I was paying attention. And but I was also like, yeah, I know this is an issue. It's been around for a long time, but I'm very busy. Doing other things, and then she sent me one particular video and I watched it and there was no way to move forward and the rest of my everyday life without trying to make some type of difference.

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And it's one of those things where the problem is so big, you know, 40 million men, women and children and sex slavery and the human trafficking system. And sometimes when something is so big, it's hard to get your head around. It's like, well, how do I get my hands around it? And I was praying. And over the course of a couple of weeks and I saw that Tim was posting a lot on social media about their human trafficking, their anti human trafficking efforts.

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And I didn't know that he was as involved in that as he was. So I was like, oh, that's cool. Temes, you know what a guy not only is he hosting proms all over the world for kids with special needs, but now he's doing this. And I was like, I need to do something like that. I need to start a movement. I need to start an organization. So I was praying about that. And then I woke up one morning and had to just be the Lord's speaking to me to let me see past my ego that you don't have to start your own fight.

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You can join Temp's. It's great. So I was like, OK. I think so many times our first pivot is like, I have to start my own thing. Yeah. When so much more happens in collaboration. And so I hit him and I'm like, Hey bro, my wife and I, we want to help God put this on our heart. What can we do? And he said, Dude, write a song. Wow. And I was like, why didn't I think of that?

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You know, sometimes what we can offer were so it's what we see last. But that's that's kind of the genesis of it.

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That's so good. That's so cool. I love that because you're right. Like, you put this pressure on yourself that you have to start somewhere, you have to do something. And then a lot of times when you think you had to start, you actually never end up doing anything goes right. It's so overwhelming. But there are so many people are doing the things out there that you can just partner with or collaborate with or even give to. So practically for everyone listening, how can we help out?

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Because I love how you said like I knew I need to do something. And I saw it on Tim's Instagram. So maybe this is that moment for people who are listening, like, I know I need to do something. What can they do? Absolutely.

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Well, the cool thing is with the song, it's available on every streaming platform that there is. Wherever you like to listen to music, you can listen to the song All God's Children, and one hundred percent of the proceeds from the streams. And the merch of this song are going to fuel rescue missions through the Tim Tebow Foundation. So streams break chains good. And I'm really excited that people who feel overwhelmed by the magnitude of this, it's as easy as getting in your car and turning on your phone or turning on YouTube.

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We can we can do something to make a difference together. So cool.

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Everybody can do that. So go get the song. Got surgeon. Sure, you can get it anywhere where you can get songs. Yeah. Says so incredible. So I want to ask you, I love it while you're talking about just like joining something that someone else is doing, but you're doing a lot yourself, like you are an artist. You also preach a lot which you're incredible at both. You have a family, you do so many things I'm sure we don't know about.

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I know you've done seven secular road and church road with music and just all kinds of different things. Was there ever a time in your life that you limited God to what you could do? And if so, how did you break past that?

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Yeah, well, I think that is the constant tension, especially as you do more and more. There is a tendency to drift toward self reliance and thinking that all this stuff came from me. But what I'm trying to always remind myself that my my efforts are not really the key. I do have to be engaged and participate, but it's really God's faithfulness that delivers the results. It's good. And so I've been trying to remind myself, even as the year we had last year and stepping into this year, that my responsibility is movement.

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I need to have my hands engaged. I need to have my heart engaged. But God's job is fulfillment that he's going to bring the right things to pass in the right. Season and what I struggle with said is I look at my future and all the things that I want to do and I'll think of all of the things that I'm going to need to fulfill those things. And I'll take inventory of my life right now and be like, well, I don't have that.

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I don't have those skills. I don't have that experience. How am I ever going to do that? Yeah, neglecting the fact that all I need is what I have.

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Good for the season that I'm in right now. Great. And that God is the one that produces the fruit in its season. You know, it's that whole scripture of don't grow weary and well doing for in due season you will reap the harvest if you don't faint. There's a season for what needs to be produced in our lives. And if we stay connected to the vine, that's just going to happen naturally.

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So good. I'm always fighting that because it's so easy to to drift into the self like sufficiency. Right. You know. Oh, for sure.

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Same as actually going to that because this morning we were talking my team was all here and we have a new girl today. And we were telling her, you know, just whatever God puts inside of you, just believe that, you know, he can do it through you. And it's kind of like your job is to move that movement. His job is the fulfillment. And if it's a God, then that will happen. And we were telling her, like, yeah, you come in here and you might see this podcast, Mike, and that camera crew.

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And this is a legit thing happening. But two years ago, whenever I was sitting there with only two team members and I said we started a podcast and none of us had any idea what we were doing that no, we didn't have a microphone, carrot, nothing. And we were just like, yeah, look, let's look into that, you know? And now we're here. And so it's sometimes God puts a little seed in your heart.

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I remember this is very Ecclesiastes eleven talks about it and it talks about how, like, you know, you can look at the the clouds sometimes and, you know, it's going to rain. And this is obviously not exactly what it says. But this is kind of like an idea says you can look at cloud and you can know it's going to rain. You can see a tree falling and know that that's where it's going to Lise's is. But there are some things that you will not understand how it happens, like the way that a baby is born in the mother's womb.

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It talks about how those are things that we don't know, like God is clearly doing something that we can't wrap our heads around. But then it says, but continue to show your seed in the morning and don't be idle with your hand in the evening. And that is like stuck with me for so long because it's like there are some things in life you can see this might happen because this happened. But there are other things in life that you don't know.

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You have to trust God and God's going to blow your expectations. But that doesn't mean you stop working as me. Stop sowing your seed and then don't be idle with your hands because you could think it's going to happen just like this. And God actually reverse reverse is going to happen like this. So that's such good advice. And I think when you don't limit God to what he can do, you do a lot more like for you.

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You know, you're doing so many things and and you don't underestimate it. I love what you said about see, because honestly, if the Bible talks a lot about seed, but there is nothing exciting about seed. True. Like the most boring. I mean, I'm not going out and just looking for seeds, OK? Maybe there are people out there. That's your thing. I respect it. OK, but there's nothing really exciting about seed. But Faith doesn't just see the seed for what it is now.

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It sees what it can become. Great. And when you put seed in the right soil, it grows into something more than you can imagine. And we should never disqualify our gifts, our story, our potential, because it just looks like seed. We shouldn't disqualify our prayers because they seem small when we're praying them, because they are not yet what they're going to be when God fulfills them. Yeah. So even though the seed isn't super cool or fun, don't underestimate what God can do with it.

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So good.

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I love that. I heard Mike Todd talk about seeds one time and he was talking about how like you have to dig in the ground and bury the seed and that's the same thing you do with death. Like you dig in the ground and you bury the person. But the same place at the sea where it looks like death is like where destiny begins.

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That's that's right. I love that. Well, people wanted to know they wanted you to bring it all the way back to what made you pursue music and what did that look like? The very the very beginning. Way back.

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Well, yeah. Well, I started singing in church when I was nine. That's when my family started. Going to church, my parents separated when I was young, and that sent my dad on a whole faith journey, which introduced him to my step mom, and so he changed the whole trajectory of my life and our kids and their kids by his decision to follow Jesus. But I started singing in the church choir and I loved it. When I was 16, I started playing piano and leading worship in our youth ministry.

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And it's kind of funny because my youth pastor, who is also my uncle, was like Tauren. You're a great singer, you're doing good leading worship, but you really need to know how to play an instrument. So I'm like, OK, so my dad had keyboards and stuff, so I was learning how to play the keyboard, but I couldn't learn the songs fast enough for the services. So I would just write my own songs because no one knows if you're messing up your own song.

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So it's like, no, that's supposed to be so that's how I started songwriting and I loved that. But then I got really invested into the ministry side of student ministry and leading worship, where most days after school I would be coming up to the church setting up for our Wednesday night services, getting the stage right. And this was when, like you decorated stages without budgets for lights and stuff. So we would have like the alley look with garbage cans tipped over and trash and construction and all that stuff.

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But I just love the creative side of all that. It was an outlet for me and seeing my friends come from school, I went to public school, seeing them come and be like, wow, this is like the coolest thing that we've been to. This is and I saw it affect them and change their hearts. And even to this day, I'm talking with friends from high school that were impacted from those years. And I just fell in love, the ministry side.

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So that led me to Bible College. I went to Bible College for three years and majored in theology. I minored in music. Wow. And while I was there, I was writing songs and the college every year put out an album. So they got recorded. And I was like, it was the first time I was hearing my music, not just on the piano or the guitar, but fully produced and people singing and singing it in church.

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It's just amazing. So, yeah, that's kind of how all that started a journey 11 years ago.

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And I've read the first time I heard hills and valleys and I mean, Laynie, my best friend, we were like, this is so good. And we listened to it like a hundred times and it was so funny. So at the time, Lady and I had just heard it, we were like, I loved it. And then soon after there was an award show and, you know, they kind of have your seeds. We were going to set something like Langa sit down and then you and your wife were behind us.

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And we were like, oh, like, are you so strong? I'm not kidding. We were so we like that. So we are so excited and people obviously want and the hills and valleys in your own life. So somebody said, how do you personally keep pursuing God through the hills and valleys of your life? And obviously that song is so good and it has so much meaning behind it. Yeah.

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Oh, man. To to keep it brief, you know, I was.

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We have all experienced the highs and in the lows of life, I know I certainly have and I know people have experienced a lot more than me, but just with, you know, my parents. When my wife and I got married, people were upset that we had an interracial marriage and the church that my wife's dad pastors had many, many families leave the church when we got married.

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And in the midst of that, when we're getting married, it's our first year of marriage should be the most amazing time of our lives. And we're going through the church turmoil. And then my father in law was diagnosed with leukemia. And so that's actually the season that that song really started stirring in it. It grew over years. And, you know, I've realized that there are things that grow and valleys that do not grow on mountaintops. Wow.

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That God actually does some of his best work in our darkest places. And I love how the scripture paints the picture of Jesus as the bright and morning star. He is high and above it all. But in that same set of scriptures, it says that he's also the lily of the valley, that he's not just high above and away from it all. He's actually in our darkest places, growing beautiful things. And so God is not just the God of the mountain tops and the hills and the successes and the triumphs.

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He is the God of our struggles, our disappointments, our fractured places. And he can be trusted because he is with us in and through it all.

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And that's really the heart behind hills and valleys. It's reminding people that life is going to happen and there is going to be some very tough stuff that we will all encounter. But the promise of Jesus and the the promise of his presence lets us know that there will never be a day that we have to encounter any of it alone. Yeah. And and that's the heart is beautiful.

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Thanks for sharing that. That's such a good message. And I love how you said that. And that song kind of starts during a New Year's before the song ever came out and a really hard time of your life. And then years later, you put out the song and it's huge and everybody loves it and relates to it because we've all had our hills and valleys and we've seen God in them. What what do you what would you say to people?

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Because I think our generation has this struggle where we like to put everything out really fast and we like things to happen really fast. But sometimes things just don't happen like that, you know, and a lot of times they don't need to happen like that. So what's your advice on, you know, letting something just sit for a little while before it goes before it goes out?

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Yeah, well, that's a great, great observation to bring up. John Mayer actually said that, you know, the problem with today's young musicians is we write a song and we think we have to post it on YouTube immediately.

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Like, I literally just wrote it and now it has to go up on social media and it kind of kills the developmental process because he was talking about, you know, the years and years and years. It was just him and his room with his guitar, writing hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of songs and practicing and practicing and practicing. I think that good things take time. Yeah. Good things take time. Jesus does very few instantaneous miracles and scripture, he does a few, sometimes suddenly happens, we love that scripture and acts.

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And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind that was the fulfillment of an ancient promise that unfolded from generation to generation to generation. This suddenly took a very long time to set up. Yeah, and often that that's just how God operates. When you look at the creation of the world, we serve a God who could breathe it into existence, who could think into existence, who could do it all in one day. But on day one, it was evening and it was morning.

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And day two, God created, and it was evening and it was morning, day three. Day four. Why? Because good things take time. Great. So and I'll add to that. Can you celebrate? That it's good before it's done well preach, because God called every day good, even though it wasn't the fulfillment of the full vision that was in his heart so good, he was able to in that day and look around and be like, man, I know I still got fish to put in this water and I still know I got people to put on this land.

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But if I'm just looking at the clouds in the oceans, this is good.

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So great. And in our lives, we have to be able to look at, man, I don't quite have the relationships I want to have. It's not quite where I want it to be, but it's good right now.

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That's yeah. So anyways, I'm like Tate, like we just went to church like that is so good. I've never thought about it like that that he was able to say it was gay before. It was just and so many people wanted to hear that. Like if you're listening to the podcast, stop for a minute and just think about the things in your life that might not be done yet, or you're putting pressure to come out now or be wherever you think you should be whenever you know.

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Yes. Whatever your expectation was for this season or this year of your life and just let God work where you're at. That is. Yes. Good to have that. Lastly, I want to talk to you about the song known because that is Christian and I song. Come on. Since we got engaged, I was a song we our first dance at our wedding and it just meant so much to us because when Chris and I started dating, I had dated other people before.

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He had dated other people before. And I felt like the word like love would come out like so soon and relationships.

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And that's because you were dating people in like second grade and third grade and then you got married. Well, that's true. That's that's a valid as valid love would come out. And I would be like, there's just like I you don't know me, but then I would feel like, well, now I don't even want to tell you, like, all the things that are really me, because then what if you don't still love me? But this is how it is backwards concept.

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So I'm a Christian. I started dating. I told him, I do not want you to tell me that you love me until you know me. And I don't want to tell you anything until I love you. Until I know you. And of course, you're always going to continue to get to know someone. And there is a lot to get to know. And I'm still getting to know Christian and forever will be. But the core of wanting to truly know him and like be known by him was super important to me before I said I love you because I love you.

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I think when you know that you're known, it takes the pressure off of feeling like you have to be something other than yourself. And I think in the day and age that we live in, especially with social media, you're liked by a lot of people and you're not known by any of them.

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You know, you're seeing your acknowledge you're not truly like known. And so I think the song and the words are so crucial for us to hear. Where did that come from in your own life that you felt the need to write the song? And what does that mean to you?

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Well, there is a quote that stopped me in my tracks by Timothy Keller, and it said, To be loved but not known is comforting, but it's superficial. You know this you posted this before. Yet to be known and not loved is our greatest fear. But to be fully known this is so good and truly loved is what it means to be loved by God. So good. I mean, there is not a better encapsulation of the gospel to me than those words right there.

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And I was I am that like not to invoke the Enneagram here.

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No, I love it, but I know do ask people so please share your Enneagram I, I am a three.

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So you know, I'm saying. And so it's a lot of performance achievement, image driven image conscious type things and you know. It's it's hard to love me with all of my dysfunction, but that's actually the beautiful thing about Jesus, is that he didn't die for the image that we project. He died for who we really are. So before anyone knew me, before anyone like to me, before anyone sang my songs, before anybody invited me anywhere, Jesus invited me in.

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He knew me. He saw me. He loved me. He treasured me. And that just demands scripture says it's just a reasonable response to worship and to live in this place of worship. And, you know, my wife and I, our story is pretty cool, too.

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And I always tell people, God, to use my wife as the greatest expression of God's grace in my life, to let me know that I don't have to be anything more than what I was, that I could bring all of my failure and all my dysfunction and all of my broken pieces that I'm still trying to make sense of. And they are covered in grace. And that's that's the heart of that song.

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And I'll speak to the thing to that, you know, our generation and the generation coming up after me, we have really bought into the lie that it is better to be well known than to be known. Well, yeah. And if you're evaluating them on a scale of fame versus intimacy. The intimacy is so much more valuable than people celebrating you or knowing your name or you getting a certain amount of followers or fill in the blank, that the real treasure is to have people that have been given permission to get inside of your heart and connect in a deeper way and in a deeper place.

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And it's it's something you can't. Replace with anything else? No, spend your whole life trying. Come on. So good. You know, right after you were just preaching about the good thing, I was like, should I ask him one more question? Because he just nailed that. And I'm glad I did, because you just nail it like you just freeze and it's OK because it's an overflow of who you are and the scripture that you know and the even the family that you have.

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And you can tell that all kinds of such a genuine place said, thank you for sharing your heart, your advice, your stories with us. Who is so good? Everybody go get all God's children help out. I guess, really by just listening to the song, that is a practical, easy way to help out. So everybody go listen to the song to her. And again, thank you so, so much and so fun talking.

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Thank you. Thank you for having me on. All right, drum roll, please welcome back to the segment of our guys show where we talk about good or bad advice I know well is I just feel like I need to talk about.

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Welcome back to this segment of the podcast. What is that from?

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Oh, you know what? It's funny details. No, like like you like the time of the hour when Larry sings a silly song. That's literally what I'm channeling right now.

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I hope y'all can connect with that because I did, as she tells. But I've noticed that this is like a fulfillment of my childhood dream to say something like that. Again, I'm really happy about it anyways. Moving on, we're not going to dwell on the moment. All right, Christine. Good and bad advice. Let's hear it. Always choose to love others first.

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Great advice.

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The best advice you can give because Jesus said that's one of the top Ten Commandments that Jesus gave us. But your stuff. Yeah. Let it go through your heart, soul, mind and strength.

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Can't go wrong with that. So love that. All right, let's see. Be wherever your feet are.

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Don't live in the past or the present. That's good advice.

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And sometimes I can look at my life a moment that I'm either hopeful for the future or dwelling on the past.

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I can kind of lose sight of where I'm at now. I think that's really good advice. Yeah, I love being in the present moment. I love being here right now in this podcast. My feet are down on this rug. I'm loving it.

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I'm not thinking about whatever I'm doing later and I'm doing this to you.

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I feel content for good, for happy. I love that. No, I agree. And it's hard to do that at times. It's so easy to look to the future or dwell in the past. But when you can surrender the pain of the past or even the highs of the past and look for and look forward to the future, not, you know, spend your whole life anticipating the future and just be in the moment, I think that's whenever you truly start living, you know.

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Yeah, it was even like us now with like, you know, our daughter. Like, I'm so hopeful for the future of that. But I'm also just so content now with her. Yeah. And being. Yeah.

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That's so sweet. Like this is such a good season and such a sweet season.

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Yeah. And it's preparing us for the next it's next month. Everything in life is like that. It's always preparing you for the next.

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So every stage of it is important where dishonesty is and we're not having to pivot it.

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And my dad always make fun of all of our church worlds, worlds, our church words that we say like season and pivot.

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And I can't think anything. They come every year. There's got to be this year. I can't wait for the twenty, twenty one church of the year. That's an excursion. All right. Stress is a choice.

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Hmm. I don't know.

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That's interesting because I don't know that it's a choice, because if it was a choice, I don't think I would choose it.

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But that that was like just another realm of, like, wisdom.

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Well, it's true because I would not choose to be stressed, but I oftentimes feel stressed, so I don't think it's a choice. Yeah.

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Is it a choice to choose not to be stress perhaps? I think yeah.

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It's a choice to like to choice to like how you want to approach that. Yeah. Sometimes I'm stressed, I they're like shut down or I'm stressed. I can be like, OK, let's, let's do it, let's get it done. Yeah.

[00:34:58]

There is a choice that comes in the midst of stress to say I'm going to no longer be stressed and choose to trust God. But I think getting to the point of stress is not always a choice. Sometimes life happens and there's you a curveball and sometimes you get stress in that in that moment you have a choice to get out of it.

[00:35:15]

Yeah, I was actually just about to say word for word for word.

[00:35:19]

What were you. I was. Yeah. Yeah, I know. That was so good. That was good. Thanks for saying good bye. Bye. So it's good podcast, Instagram and the elder sister app. We love you guys and look forward to seeing more.

[00:35:31]

Yep.