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Hey, you are you one of those people who thinks it's OK to drive stoned, are you? I mean, what's the worst that can happen? Right. You end up driving below the speed limit. It's no big deal, right? Wrong. The truth is your reaction times slow way down when you're high. You're not only put yourself in danger, but everyone around you talk about buzz, kill. Stop kidding yourself. It's not OK to drive high.


And if you've been using marijuana in any form, do not get behind the wheel. If you feel different, you drive different drive. I get a DUI.


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All right, let's do this, how are you? What the fuck is what the fuck buddies? What the fuck stirs? What's happening? I'm Marc Maron. This is my podcast, WTF. Welcome to it. We've been going at it for a while now. We're in our 11th year, almost at the end of the eleventh year of this. Is that true?


2009 in the fall. An ongoing conversation twice a week for 11 years or so, almost 11 years with me and you and me and people that come in here and you and everyone's involved, either they're in here or there. I'm talking to a man on the video. And we're doing it, we're getting through it, aren't we? I can't I have no more bandwidth, folks. For fucking sad, scary shit, I have no I just have limited bandwidth, the whole goddamn thing that the needles are going all over the place just like.


Full on, I just I just tripped myself out some sort of hyper. Dread, hyper anxiety, and then it just and then it's almost like a riddle in effect, I just kind of get exhausted now. I'm plodding through 110 degree temperatures out here. What's going on where you are?


The sky on fire, the fucking sky is on fire. So now on top of everything else, authoritarianism, fucking insanity, the future of the country, the future of the planet.


I got to worry about my house burning down again. Didn't burn down before, but it's just the worry of it. But how are you? No, seriously, I'm sorry.


I'm taking up too much time. I've got a lot to be grateful for. I'm sober. I got some money saved up. I'm working. I have good friends. Do you do that? Do you have a gratitude list? All of those things make impending doom pleasant money in the bank. Good friends, a nice place to live. Yes, I understand that. So I'm not complaining. I'm grateful. My particular impending doom period is relatively comfortable.


Today I talk to shortly I will talk to Kieran Culkin.


He's an Emmy nominated actor now for playing Roman Roy in succession. You guys know him from that or Igby Goes Down Scott Pilgrim vs. the World, The Home Alone movies with his brother Macaulay.


If you want to do a little homework, a little back up work, I interviewed Macaulay back on Episode eight, 83.


I believe if you want to go listen to that. I like the guy, I like the Kieran Culkin I've always liked and I see him, I'm like, that kid seems like a solid kid, good presence on the screen. Got a little bit of an attitude. I'd like to talk to that kid and now I get to talk to that kid.


I'm having some issues with my cap. I don't know if I'm making them up. I got one cat left. I went picked up monkey in a box, I got monkey in a box and I got Lafond in a box. And the same company, I think, cremated them, but they change their boxes. So now I got two different types of boxes with the same cute little wooden name tags. I like it. I'm glad that they're in different boxes ones a sort of a homemade paper outside box like it looks.


It's got that on the exterior. The other one is just a shinier box.


Will find is and I got them out. Is that weird to have them out. Am I supposed to hide in their nice boxes with nice wooden nametags on. And I got a little weird sculpture of a cat doing a yoga pose or just sitting cross-legged.


That's next to that. The two of them, brother and sister. But I still got Buster here and now Buster is being showered with more attention than he's ever had from me, and I'm not sure he likes me. I just don't I don't know. I think he like being neglected. I think he liked having a buffer.


There's no old man buffer. It's just one. It's an old man human. And in that guy and buster. I know what to make of it, I think he works for monkeys sometimes I think he smells were monkey was. I think he I saw him sitting where Monkey was sitting. It makes me very sad.


That were both looking and knowing, we're both knowing that our our our friend is gone, but his is a little different, I got to be careful not to project too much human feelings on him.


I got to not make assumptions that he's experiencing. Whatever he's experiencing, like a human, obviously, he likes me, I feed him, but it's a little weird. It's a little weird.


I mean, monkey I was with for 16 years and we had an understanding, I don't think I've reached an understanding with this cat and he's a weirdo, but he'll fetch which is cool dimentia.


My car got recalled some things in it that were not safe. Need the car, need to be able to drive away if I have to drive somewhere and turn the fucking phone off. Oh my God, this is just come up on my phone.


California hit by nearly 11000 lightning strikes, sparking more than 350 fires as thousands flee.


Over the last 72 hours and I don't have a fucking car. Got to get out, going to get out. So this show, as you've noticed, Brian Cox has been on I've talked to Sarah Snook.


Kieran Culkin is part of some dynasty, a strange acting dynasty.


I didn't think you would talk about beef. He talked about it. I walked to the fucking Ralph's. Supermarket in 108 degrees yesterday. It's weird when he start the walk in 108 degrees right now. It's not so bad, but then when it comes down on you, it's almost like all the moisture leaves your body and it in and you're walking through invisible sludge.


And I carried a fucking watermelon home like I'm some kind of hero in one hundred nine degrees temperature. I walked four blocks, bought a watermelon and walked it four blocks home. Hero. Got a knock on those watermelons, I don't know how you're doing it, but I've I've figured out a way it looks stupid. I'll remind people I hold it up, stick my ear on it, knock on it with the other hand.


And if it sounds like a wooden door, that's your fucking ticket. That's your watermelon. OK, let's let's just do this, please be careful out there. Don't burn up. All right. I don't even know what I'm encouraging you to stay alive for, but let's do it together. All right, so Kieran Culkin is nominated for an Emmy for Best Supporting Actor in a drama series in the role of Roman Roy on succession.


This is me and Kieran Culkin coming up.


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I. Hey, man. Hello. How's it going on here? I can't believe I fucking made it.


I think I'm only one minute late. Some fuckin miracle. Crazy like the baby woke up an hour earlier than we thought. While my wife's sandwiches arrived 20 minutes late. So there was the I'll hold the baby while you slice the cucumber and eat a sandwich. And then she faces a sandwich. I've got to go. She's got to shit. So shower and then the little shit. Do I have coffee? Oh fuck. I do. I said I was running ten minutes late and then I realized no way.


I'm wearing a shirt. I got coffee. Am my saying I don't have to be late.


I mean you just have to walk down the hall.


I even have like I got like lights like proper fucking these lights behind me. I have a green screen that I can pull up a shot, something here. And they let me keep all this very expensive equipment and now I have to throw it out. I guess I don't know why I.


Well, you can once you figure out how to use it, I mean, you're, you know, relatively intelligent person, right?


Not with that stuff. I feel like I learned how to use the VCR and the DVD player and laserdiscs once like we got to streaming services. I just don't know how they work.


What's going on, man? You're right. Oh, yes. Hey, one of those you're not supposed to complain, so I just really try to not complain. Everything's great. How old's the kid? Eleven months yesterday.


So it's like tiny. It's like a little kid. He's amazing. Yeah.


But it's yeah. It's one of those. OK, I need to be ready at 215. I'll get myself a half an hour because really I need ten minutes and that's what things don't work that way. And I feel like I've heard other parents say, like you can't say let's do something at two thirty, it's, let's do something between two and four and it doesn't matter how much experience I get and how much we plan on, I'll just never be on time.


I would say it was one minute. This is a miracle.


I feel like I forgot something I know well is that the kid is with the human. Yes. So that part and I change a shit diaper before I left cuz I felt like ok at least I did something my poor wife just had.


I can't, I can't really imagine it. I don't have kids and I'm an old man and I didn't have any and I don't regret it. And when I hear about it it sounds exciting but I still don't like nothing you're saying is making me go. Oh fuck.


I should say that honestly was the same way I tell it, like it is the greatest thing in the world. So it really is like I would tell you, it's definitely worth it. But I can imagine myself having kids and I don't want to do that. Why would I want to not have sleep, not be able to do the things I want to do and just be stressed all the time and fighting with my wife? Why would I want to do that?


And you made it however old you are without it. Yeah, I got to I got to be thirty seven did the whole single life shit.


And then it's weird because then we have a kid and then she starts crawling around and walking and I go, here's another thing I never thought I'd be let's buy a house upstate now I want a frickin pool in the backyard and all the shit that I never wanted.


We're not going to get it. But have you been looking? We started to. And then my wife sort of had a panic, like, why would I do that? Like, why would I move to a big house where nobody is around me?


Well, I mean, you know, we'll see how everything unfolds. It might be the best solution here.


I don't know. I haven't figured this out.


Yeah, I mean, I. So you had the kid, so the kid was like, what, six months old? And then all of a sudden it's like you can't leave your house.


Yeah, yeah. That was that was it. And that was kind of nuts. And we have a tiny like six hundred square foot one bedroom apartment that I moved into when I was 19. I moved out of my mom's house and still have that place. We're still there. But I what I did is about a month after the lockdown, I rented this little studio here. Downstairs. Yeah. Which extra money at it. And that was for three reasons.


That was to in case one of us got sick and we had so haunting it was for work, things like this, and to get my fucking face out of my wife's face. That's sort of a loose quote.


So from her what. So do you have any furniture in that room or is it just the lights that you stole?


And it's disgusting. The the last tenant left the bed and the super was like, oh, I'll get rid of this. I said, not sorry, no mattress cover. That still stinks for the bed. Just smells of rubber. And I put our clean sheets on it. And then whenever somebody throws out furniture, because since the this thing happened, so many people in this building have moved out. So they just leave their furniture in the lobby and I'll grab it.


I have a nightstand. I got a desk. I got all sorts of shit that people throw out. I just drag it into this apartment, wipe it down with the antibacterial wipes I could find were like pineapple smells. This apartment smells like rubber and pina colada. It's disgusting.


That sounds like you're living the life. Wow.


Fucking glamorous. I'm also getting fat ass shit, which is why I'm wearing this neckerchief.


Oh, that's not a face mask. That's a hide your second chin. It's actually a face. Yes, but it does it does do both, but now that I've mentioned it, I got to get rid of it so I can be that. I put on about five myself, and I'm kind of obsessing about that today. I don't know what the fuck to do about it. That's it. Yeah. Why would you put on closer to 15?


And I've lost a couple through the Scalloway because I was tired of looking at it and.


Yeah, because when when when you got nothing to do, you can look at it a few times a day. Right. I just don't. And then it's like, oh, that's not accurate. There's no way. There's no way I weigh that. And then I just put on like my sleep time shirt, you know, the shirt that's really big and it's my belly is pushing it outside hanging off the side of my body. So that's how I judge it.


It's like they wear and I can only wear. This has already my daughters got food on it. It was one of the few like two or three shirts I can wear.


So I always weigh myself like I make is fucking nuts. I am when I'm in it because I was, I was OK for a while and then, you know, shit got sad and dark here and I started eating everything like I'll make sure I pee like right when I get up a pee out, like I'll get on a scale.


And if it's like night like like between like 178 and point five, I'll go piss and get back on the scale and be like 170. I'm OK with that, you know, and then start my half.


I have to do it right when I get up. I have to make sure there's no liquid in me.


I take my watch off, makes it to shave your body hair just exactly right. Yeah, it's that crazy.


I'm close to my goal weight. Yeah. I'm supposed to like exercise too. Like I even saw a commercial yesterday for like some sort of workout. I don't even know it was for I saw a bunch of people working out who that was exercise. You're not going to the gym, I guess. People at the gym in the house.


I go up, I go at the mountain there, I go hiking and shit. I'm definitely trying to, you know, stay active because I don't I'm here alone. You've got you're engaged with the infant and and a wife and emotions and things.


Oh, yeah. We're in Manhattan. So it's like, OK, we got to go out. So pack up the stroller and start walking, but try to like keep six foot distance. And why isn't that asshole wearing a mask and. Right.


Do you, do you do the siblings have kids. I can I talk to you. I talk to your brother. I talked to McColley.


He does he have one his and have one does not.


I'm the first. And who knows. Probably only because when they hear my escapades I think they might have the same sort of reaction you do. Like why would I do that if I might have to speak honestly? Because it isn't just trying to cover my tracks. It really is like I don't sleep. But when I wake up exhausted, I just think of my daughter's face and it's really like I know it sounds corny and whatever. And a friend who had kids who said it's every cliche you've ever hurt because it just is like cheating.


Yeah. The meaning of everything. So when I go up to that apartment, she sees me and she just gets this big smile and slaps. She crawls really fast over me and just tries to crawl up me desperately, like pick me up. And it's the greatest feeling in the world, so.


Well, that's good, man. It sounds I'm happy for you. How long have you been with your wife? Almost nine years.


Oh, my God. So take that then, like nine years of being together and put us in a tiny apartment during a pandemic with a baby that wasn't sleeping and say, hey, you two get along right. What does she do? She in the biz.


No, no, she's not. She works. She's one of those like she works in advertising. But I never was quite sure what she did. Sort of like the music side of advertising.


Yeah, I don't know what that means. You know, people say things I you would be surprised how many people I talk to that aren't really sure what their parents did.


Yeah, that's a good call. I know my mom worked nights and she worked for like an answering service which took till I was thirty to finally ask her to say, what does that mean if it's an answering service now, because that well, that they used to exist answering services.


I remember like you could, you know, is a number you call they'd pick up.


You're like, my dad was a doctor, so he had an answering service and he'd have to call the answering service to see if anyone called. You know, now we have, you know, voicemail.


Yeah. There's like hospitals and stuff, too. But also, she said she did a lot of like for casting people like the casting people would tell her who got the part and she would reach out or, you know, something like, oh, really? Yes. You talked to a lot of actors. She says she remembers calling a few actors to tell them they had the part in something really and like a fun experience for her.


So this specific type of answering service. Yeah, I guess now I got a question for you.


And just like because I was struck my mind when I was coming over here. Now I know you guys don't like talking about your old man, but he think did he think that did he think he had a racket going like that? What was he like? I'm going to make all of these like. Was it a big plan? Because it seems to me if you're going to make a plan to make money, you're making seven kids act. Is not the most lucrative idea.


Yeah, yeah, that's actually a good point, because, like, how the hell is that going to work? Like how like he struggled his whole life to do it himself. Now he's going to try to throw seven kids at the wall and see what I did.


Yeah, I'm trying to figure out, like, what was the intention? He's like, I'm going to I'm going to make a million bucks.


That's a good point.


I would have to you. The problem is my memories of that are from the perspective of a seven, eight, nine year old. So. Yeah, right. A process.


But looking back on it, I mean, do you think do you think it was you know, it was because he had like it was you he was so narcissistic that you were all just an extension of his desire to succeed and what he chose.


There's that possibility. I also feel like they were just drowning in kids in life, what they my parents sort of life. But that's when I remember it was they have this very, very small apartment. It was a real railroad, apartments of the home, right all the way through those separating doors except for the bathroom and the door didn't properly shut all the way. And there was no shower, just like a rusted tub.


So literally no boundaries, emotional or physical.


This is an apartment that is barely suitable for a couple. And they put seven kids in it. They slept on a mattress on the floor next to the crib. And then the next section of the apartment was four bunk beds that house six of the other kids and then the kitchen. And it was like and I've seen pictures of it when I see like childhood pictures, like, oh, look how cute. All birthday this place is filthy. But like, I can't blame my mom.


What does can have time. And I say my mom because I'll call my dad or clean my mom like she worked nights. She would work all night at this answering service. Sometimes she would bring a kid with her, with the baby and then come home in the morning, get the kids and husband ready, husband to work, kids to school, and then the younger kids, some nursing, the others she's looking after and try to clean the place.


And that I just don't think she slept for several years. Yeah, you do that and then go to work. And then I think my father was I think the only thing he ever really did was acting and he that didn't really work. And then I think at one point he's quite literally drowning in his life. I don't know if it was like, well, you know, sometimes people on the farm for their young kids to work because they just need some help.


It could have been like, I don't know how to feed you guys, so just get help for it for food.


I really could have just been that my mom, they could never afford rent for the last two months of the year. And the I think the landlord or whatever just would let it go because he basically saw their life. He was like, yeah, if I called Child Services, they would just take your kids away. I would have. Right? Probably, yeah. Why do they have so many?


I mean, why didn't anyone put a stop to that?


Yeah. Someone get don't put your dick in that. Like who's who's going to whose place is it.


You're thirty seven and you have one month of fuck. I don't unless they're Orthodox Jews or crazy Catholics.


I don't know how someone has seven fucking kids.


I don't know either. They just did nothing else to do but smoke pot and bone. I don't know like and we did go to Catholic school. We weren't really like very religious. I think we did that because my father was able to get some sort of hook up like he worked for the church and that his kids were able to go to that school.


OK, so he was brought up Catholic, that guy, I guess. Yeah.


But again, we weren't very religious unless it was like Easter. I mean, for some reason, the headmaster master never would you character were they like hippie guys.


Was he a hippie guy. I guess so. Kind of, yeah. I just can't fathom it, so many kids, it's like he created this kind of like weird little actor sweatshop child labor thing, I mean, it's almost like because again, I don't really know if it's me trying to piece it together.


It was because he was sort of in that world, even though he hadn't worked for a few years, neighbor friends were running like an off off Broadway theater company on the Upper East Side. And whenever they needed a kid, they would think like, oh, well, these guys made like seven of them. Like what? Age, gender? Just fucking pick one. You want to take them. Here's an understudy. And so I think it sort of started like that.


And then if I remember, my father just had a camera and took our, like, headshots out in the park one day and was with my brother Mac, like, there's someone with glasses said. But it was just like to do this, he can play a kid with glasses and, you know.


Right. Yeah.


If we were to open call auditions or what. But I do remember like going into auditions and my father kind of coaching me on, like, what to say or what to do, like walk in and hand you the headshot even though that wasn't you supposed to do. But they thought that was adorable for six year olds like hand over his resume and headshot.


So how old were you when, like, when Mac got the the big gig and Lumb. Yeah, Bouffe seven, I think.


God damn, man, I can't imagine I can't imagine the shift after that fucking thing hit everybody.


I must be crazy because that was like all over the place.


I mean, it obviously put the zap on his head a little bit, but I mean, just the rest of the family. I mean, it was all over the place.


Yeah, it was it was nuts. And it was able to sort of register that and understand it. But also, you know, I'm a little kid. Yeah. So I remember thinking the house we lived in was huge because and I thought it was lucky because I had a Tinkertoys and then suddenly we're moving into a brownstone. Had this happen.


People can live. Yes. Holy shit. Oh, baby. He's hosting Saturday Night Live. Cool. It's crazy.


And you don't wait. So when was the first time you were like that was like, how did it work? Was it because I know that at some point all you guys had the same agent? Is that how it worked?


Probably. I mean, my father tried to, like, get everybody at different times, like into the business and some just like would not like I remember my sister Kody, like basically the equivalent of like clutching onto the doorway, like, don't make me audition. Like, she just wouldn't do it. And my brother Chris was sort of the same way, but he sort of pushed all of us a little bit. My brother Shane was on Broadway as a kid in our town.


And so he sort of had that trajectory at a young age. And it was. I don't know, like my wife told me that she said she saw me on the cover of a DVD and saw my name, she oh, I guess he's I guess he's trying to act now. He's trying to jump on the bandwagon, like I've been doing it for the same amount of time. But, you know, that's a fair assessment.


But like my I guess my question was, was it sort of like a you know, when when one of you would get a part, if they needed a brother or a sister, they'd be like, we got we got the real ones you want. Yeah.


Like my brother Rory plays like a younger version of me in a movie and a younger version of Mac in a movie. He also plays Max younger brother in a movie.


He's playing younger brother and really like brothers. Yeah, this thing, like my brother Chris and I played brothers in the movie. There's a lot of like, hey, look, no further. You can get two for one here.


Yeah, but what is it. Did any of you guys really. Because like it seems like you all fit on screen pretty well or the three that I can draw the memory of you.


And it seems to be a genetic thing for some people.


I don't I don't know how it worked because how were you guys really trained, any of you know?


No, I think it was one of those was until I was like in my 30s. I would say when I finally gave up on the thought of I'm probably going to go to school for this, I kept thinking, like, maybe I should learn how to do what I'm what I've been doing for the last 15 years. And eventually I just went, I guess I'm already doing it.


That was. And you were doing it at a pretty high level.


Yeah, I guess. What do you think? Like if you think about it, what why is it so natural? I mean, I don't know if that's a question that's answerable. Is it I mean, because the McColley didn't take classes either.


Did he know nobody in the family. Didn't that stuff.


What the fuck did you like when you were kids? What were what were you doing? Was there was it performative? Did you did you guys go to school or anything or.


Definitely went to school to me. Like, it's funny because it feels like a normal childhood, even though if I look back on it, it probably wasn't. But I don't really know what normal means anyway.


Yeah, I mean, unless you were like I think that most people think their childhood is OK unless there's trauma, you know what I mean?


That's what seems to fuck up people's memory. It's like it was pretty good, except for the time I got locked in a closet for a week by my grandfather, you know, and that can actually ruin the entire childhood.


I've talked to people totally. They told me one experience they had and I'm like, oh, that actually ruined their entire childhood.


Yeah. Just corrupted their memory of it. Yeah. Yeah, definitely.


I had a nice childhood. I had so many kids.


I mean, you didn't have to you have to go out and find friends. There was you just walk down the hall. That's exactly right.


There was always someone to play with but there were friends at school. School is fun. Summers are fun. I actually liked being on set. The only part that was ever hard was like if I was shooting something as a when I was nine, like shooting. I was in Father of the Bride in L.A. at the Sheraton Universal Hotel, which is how you see the room that was sharing with my dad for like three months. And I was like, the set is fun.


This little pillbox of a room is not.


They gave you a shit room.


I recently talked to Nancy Meyers. I'm sorry about that. But that's not your fault. Clint was put up in a hotel. It's one night. Yeah. A little Ziploc bag of toys, which sounds really and stuff like bag of toys.


Well, that hotel is like not by anything. I mean, like, I don't even know what was the theme park was, I guess, open by that point. But I know that hotel they used to put you up there, universalise to put you up there, right?


Yeah. And that was because it was right near the studio. And it's not I'm not I'm not going to like, where's the nearest coffee shop.


But but was your dad difficult to live with for three months?


He doesn't. He was the kind of guy who doesn't really bathe. And you know, one of those guys he looks like you trying to tell him these things. He's like, I smell human. Let's just bathe every now and again. My memory is actually what it sounds like. You're exaggerating. He just like what they mean about once a year. He would take a bath. Come on. No, that's actually like to be just in bed.


So he took a bath in the apartment once while we were all at school. And my sister Cody, she's a teenager. She walked in. My mom was there. She walked in, smelled the air, you know, did dad take a bath?


I remember like seeing they would be like layers of feel like dirt film on the side of the tub. Come on.


Just an offensive man. I think it was like I think it was a little bit like, say something. I know I stink and I'm waiting in line.


Right next you say something like, yeah, well, I mean, you're sort of explaining a guy that clearly wasn't taking his acting career too too seriously. I mean, you can't really go into an audition and have the people go like what what just happened in here? What does that think?


He would be really great as the homeless guy. Maybe that's what he was going for. My mom says when she met. And asked what he did, he said, an actor, and she immediately said she looked at his teeth and thought he must be like, Oh my God, this guy seemed like he needed help.


Yeah, he had to keep growing and sideways.


They were yellow and falling out. He was also afraid of the dentist. What the fuck is this one? I don't like talk about him in a while.


It sounds like it sounds like you're describing this weird, you know, like hermit that, you know, you all had to deal with.


Yeah, I guess. Yeah. It's funny now because it's like now I'm a dad. I'm like, you know what? I must not be doing such a bad job. I shower every day. I could care.


He has that. You don't talk to that guy at all?


No, no. He came to see I did a play. But what the hell is a fuckin six years ago? I think this is our youth. It was the Broadway and he came to see that. And I hadn't seen him at that point for like seventeen years or something like that. And he came backstage and it was about a year after his stroke. And last time I saw him I was little. So I just didn't know. Like to me he was still tall.


He had to climb up three flights of stairs to come see me. And he was like, seventy survived the stroke. And the first thing I said when I saw him was like, holy shit, you really let yourself get old and dead serious. He was like leaning on a cane or an umbrella or some shit like I did here. I did.


That's the fucking thing about the and I'm assuming he's narcissistic. It's like they're they're always going to, like, immediately try to suck you into their sadness.


Yeah, I actually thought it was kind of fun and he didn't. Yeah. Because I think he is one of those people. I think you're right. You kind of want people to feel bad for him.


Yeah, he tried to really leaning on stuff and I was like, sit down or don't talk like and he hasn't like he hasn't started pestering you because you have a kid. He does want to see the kid he doesn't want.


I'm not sure that he knows how to contact us really. Like I was in a show so you can go to that theater.


But I. Oh, really. So he's really out of the loop. Oh yeah. He has been for ever. Yeah. My brother Shane has some sort of loose contact with him. So sometimes like I got a letter from him after that and I still haven't read. Actually I forgot about it until just now that he sent to my brother Shane. So there's a little bit of contact. So I don't know if he knows if he's a grandma.


I don't know.


You know, my father my brother has kids and he doesn't seem to really doesn't seem to move him much. Yeah. It's not changing him in any way. He doesn't feel like he has to go spend time with the kids. You got to figure if they were shitty fathers, maybe they'll be a good grandparent or maybe that just won't give a shit. Yeah.


Yeah, I don't know. I guess I just have never had any expectations of that. Like sometimes you would think that certain people are going to go crazy, like we had a kid and you think like, oh my goodness, that's amazing. But really some of them are like, oh, cool, congratulations. So what do you do? How's work, as you know? And some are just like crazy about like my brother Chris is like crazy about his niece.


That's nice. Really enthusiastic. Yeah. And others are like, oh, she's really cute. How are you? Like, you know, I don't know.


It must be weird to to grow up in a specific way that you did.


Yeah, I guess you would know how all your siblings feel about children or about their childhood, but what was it that did you all connect around something that you have something you all did? Because it sounds like the given your mother's, you know, busy all the time in a way, and your dad's like, you know, kind of a self-involved and smelly would you guys do for fun at home, like everything all the same thing.


There was sort of a wolf pack mentality a bit. I think I watched some home videos that I found like right when the lockdown started. I remember there was like a video we had of St. Patrick's Day. So this was like right around St. Patrick's Day. So I tried to look at that and watching all this on video stuff. And it would be like we'd all be at the water park and. There's seven of us, so we would always be like one was making sure the other one was here and there, and it was like we were all taking care of each other and looking after each other.


And there was always my mom was always holding one baby and the other one was like latched to her. And the one that was just a little too old was maybe being held by the oldest brother. And there was that kind of thing. So. It's funny because, like, it is like we're the only ones who understand. Our whatever our situation was right in it, it like I think my wife said, sometimes she feels like the third wheel looked like my sister comes around or something because she just can't quite get in there with what sort of, oh, you guys are locked in.


Yeah, but we didn't like I remember when I started, it was just like playing, it was fun. Like I still like, you know, like if we get together we'll still play the same old Nintendo games and stuff we used to play back then.


Oh really? You have him? Oh, I have.


I'm apparently the collector. When they outgrow the Super Nintendo, I get it and get the games and I just have I have everybody's own toys and game systems and shit. Oh, really?


You just and you kind of pull them out when people come over.


Yeah. Actually I kind of play them by myself a lot too. Maybe goes to sleep. Aren't you guys all wrestling freaks too. Yeah. Yeah that's. Yeah. Big big wrestling here. And I've been the one that's been consistently wrestling fan, whereas the others that have been in and out they're kind of obsessive.


How long have you been into the wrestling since the Super Bowl. So five probably when the Maggie powers collided the mid eighties and the same in the late 80s. And then when the ultimate lawyers gives rise to fame, would be took off cocaine when it was, you know, personal effects. Of course, we're all you guys into it. Yeah.


And then, like, you know, one by one, like my brother Shane, I think when he was probably like 13, there was a character named The Undertaker who showed up. And I remember him looking at the cover of the magazine. He goes, Are we supposed to believe that this man is actually dead? This is stupid. And he threw down the magazine and that was his exit from wrestling, but he felt like his intelligence was being insulted.


That was the line, huh? You know, zombies. Yeah. He's undead here. He's an urn. And that's a source of power. This is stupid.


What do you like? What do you think you what do you think? I walked you into it. You just like the spectacle of it or it's stories favorite form of escape.


Really. There's nothing there's I've never watched a wrestling, so sometimes I'll watch a TV show and I can't fully escape. I watch wrestling and I I'll never go. Oh, that's exactly what I'm dealing with in my life. There's just never I really relate to this character because his struggles aren't like it just will never be that.


Right. And it's a lot. You actually probably know this because I was going to ask you, have you been watching wrestling since your show?


Not really. You know, I've talked to wrestlers over the years, like I've interviewed, you know, we used to have Mick Foley.


Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, because he used to when I used to do political radio over at Air America, he you know, he's a very active guy. He does a lot of causes and real sweet guy. But, you know, he walks in these huge numbers and he's just beaten. He's almost disfigured. Most of the time he's hobbled.


But but he was the real deal, missing an ear and a few teeth. But in terms of the show, in terms of research, it was never my thing is as a kid. But I did learn from these guys.


And I also talked to Colt Caillebotte, Colt Cabana, who does that kind of old school kind of retro independent wrestling, which is like no frills.


The story is within the match wears like what you watch on TV. It's like it's ECOSOC, it's a soap opera. And like you get story that leads to the match. Whereas if you go to show the story is being told without words just in the ring with the rest. Yes.


So I worried about that stuff and I talked to Chavo, the guy who trains the girls and his uncle was a big wrestler guy.


So I talk to them on set. But you know, and I learned about the heel and I learned about the dynamics of it. And I had to in the last season, I did a little reffing, but it was never my thing. But I certainly understand and respect it because before I did go, yeah, I would dismiss it. And, you know, that's problematic because relatively smart people like yourself and my producer enjoy the wrestling.


Yeah, it's really easy to take a look at people's memories of it are still from the eighties. These really coked up rip guys going scream at the camera and like no one guy was actually a garbage man who was a wrestler. Like, it was just like kind of aw shit silliness in the eighties. And it's easy to look at that and just see that and think that it's stupid, but it's a lot less choreographed than people think. It's a live performance sometimes in front of twenty thousand people and on live television where they know the results, but they don't quite know how they're going to get there.


And you see them with like the thing that really interested people when they don't know it is like the referee has a little thing in his ear, talking to a director in the back, giving notes to them and making adjustments. These are real athletes in a fake sport doing plays without words. It's kind of amazing. But when it's shit, it's like the most embarrassing thing. There's so many times weekly where I'm embarrassed to be wrestling them. Right.


Really? Yeah, because it's just like that's not the stuff we like. You think we like this crap? I want to see the wrestling, like, for example, just the soap opera aspect of like, I don't know, you stole my girl or something. Sometimes the writers were not like the ones where somebody accidentally spilled coffee on the other. So he beat them up. And that was how that's how they started a feud. It was just stupid.


Or when when it becomes more about the you'd rather they do the acting without talking and just through wrestling as opposed to actually acting.


Yes. Stop it already. Yeah. Like just just get just like like OK, I get it, I, I'm like, oh OK. So these guys are going to start handing out steps forward into the match. Shut up. Right. Copacabana. I'll be enough to change it after this. I guess the cool calm down is actually mine and my wife's secret.


Is that true. That's actually true.


Well, there you go. I'm sure he'll be flattered somehow. And it's good that you chose two words, you know.


Yeah. It just doesn't go well. That's interesting. So we can go from there to your relationship with with J. Smith. Cameron on succession.


OK, so from wrestling to to to safeword to the interesting sexual dynamic that you have with that character who you know very well, I mean, he's she's married to to Kenny Lonergan and you guys, how how did that relationship start with you and Kenneth Lonergan?


Well, he did a movie. You can count on me in ninety nine or two thousand that my brother worries. So, again, it's all in the family.


So why he played the son, right? I just watch that again. You can count on me. Yeah. He's the son is learning son. Yeah. Spectacular and movie. And my mom likes to credit her herself ignoring the fact that right after that can that kid. I knew it. He wanted to hang out with this kid now he wanted to keep his on. It's probably just not true at all. But I remember him being around like you could take her out and play dates and stuff like that.


So then I started working with him on This is our youth. I did like four productions of that play over the course of like twelve years. Oh, I was going to mention him earlier because he was one who said after he had his daughter, I said, you know, I was getting my reasons for not wanting to have a kid. And I said, But isn't it like you don't get to do the stuff that you want? And he goes, Yeah, that's true.


But your wants change. Like, for example, I'm having a nice time hanging out with you, but I'd much rather be home with my daughter.


Right. Which was great. It was a way of saying, can we wrap this up? I'm done talking.


But yeah.


So I know I've known him for years and Jay Jay got cast in the show. I was really pumped about it. Also, her character was initially written to be a man and she came in and auditioned and they like, oh, oh it's great.


And you didn't you weren't you going in for some other character? It was said to me to read for Cousin Greg, but I just was not at all that guy. Like I firstly I was like Greg twenty six. I was like thirty five or some shit at the time and I'm like, OK, I'm too old for this and I'm not, not the guy, but I like the script enough to just keep reading.


Yeah. And I saw the character. Roman was like, oh shit. Well apparently they weren't even reading Romans at that time. I just said, well can I just put myself on tape anyway, just pick like three scenes and sent it and that's how it went down.


Yeah. They weren't even like looking at Romans yet. They were doing it in a certain order.


I guess so with Lonergan, because I've talked to him and he's, you know, a very intelligent, thoughtful guy and obviously a genius writer of theater.


I mean, is that relationship did you find that that was educational for you, having done all those plays with him? Did he direct you many times as a child or was it just the writing?


Well, I mean, it was like the first time I worked with him, I was twenty nineteen or twenty. Yeah. He doesn't he's he didn't direct me in that. I did. You had a very small part in his movie, Margaret. Yeah, that's good.


You like the stoner boyfriend. Yeah. Yeah. And that was one where like I really wanted that part and he wanted me for another one and there was like this is before I knew him well but he just getting frustrated that I would audition for the part he wanted me to play and I just really want to audition for the other. And it was one of those like, I'll let you audition for both, but I'm never going to cast you. Is that in the final audition for both?


I'll never play. That was a bit like a back and forth eventually. Just offered me that other part and I said, no, let me audition for this one. It took a lot of convincing, Sam, but this is our youth, like he told me eventually, like he didn't want me to be cast as part of the plane on Broadway because I wasn't tall. And that part's supposed to be told. I took a lot of convincing, but.


He's definitely a fuckin genius, and I think he's probably the best writer to work with, and he's so this is working with him. It has taught me a lot, but it's been so different from what I'm doing on succession, because Kenny will tell you, like you missed the comma in that sentence. And I'll be like, well, so what, I think it flows better like this, and he's like, put the comment, you put the comment in and it just changes the whole scene.


And he's right.


Like, you know, you drop an in the middle of a sentence and the line doesn't work. It doesn't have the same meaning. So he's right, ticketless about how his words have to be said because he knows. Right. So that's what I'm used to. And then again, on a show like Succession where the writing is brilliant and I'll say something. Sorry, I forgot to put the in the middle and they're like, fuck it, dude.


Everyone's like, I was just talking to a friend of mine about succession and they were kind of like, but I had the same thing to say, like, oh, I don't really like any of the people.


And it's like, well, you will, because this is not a real landscape. This is a satire. And in the end the language is elevated. And eventually because of the language which is sort of neutered from regular human emotions, you'll find yourself sympathizing with these people that are locked in these traps of this fucking, you know, wealth and privilege.


Oh, that's a because I haven't figured out what it is that makes me like this. The thing is, I have the exact same thing when I was reading the scripts and while we were shooting like one, two, three, four or five episodes into shooting and reading scripts, I was thinking, I mean, I can tell us is good quality. The writing is great. I feel like we're doing a good job, but I don't know who the hell is and want to watch the show.


And somewhere shooting like Episode six, I came home and my wife said how was work? And I said, I think it's good. She's like, really? That's the first time I've heard you say that. And I think we might we might have something here.


The thing about succession, I think that what happens is, is that somehow or another, I don't know who those guys are, but the language of it is specific and it's and it's calculated and it's designed that what I started to realize about it is that these people don't talk like this, but this is about power.


So like all this language, all these jokes, all this sort of sarcasm is is about power. And these are still human beings, you know, trapped in this language. And and that starts to, I think, come out a few episodes in.


I think it is natural language for them. I think this is this is what they were like, especially the siblings. They grew up around this kind of language. So this is normal for them.


I don't think I guess I guess you'd have to think that as an actor, but I still see it as like.


There is an element of an exercise to it, because, like if you watch your character or any of the kids, that when they do actually have emotions within this language, you know, you feel the intensity of it so much more because you're like, oh, look, look, there's a person in there.


You know, it's funny because when they do get, like, sort of emotionally stumble on their words and they kind of almost don't know what to say because they can't put up the wall of the bullshit language that they were like, Kendall gets really upset and starts going, Alltop your dick off and give an octopus off your your ear. You just can't get it out because he's upset.


Right. What's it like working with that guy?


Oh, here we go. I'm going to just talk a bunch of shit about my fellow actors.


Well, it seems like they're all pretty solid.


Everybody everybody is great and everybody has been. It's crazy, everyone just has like a different process, and it's not just the actors, but it really has this feel this is going to sound like a like they want me to say to shit, this is just what it actually is. This is a real action dream job because everybody that shows up on set, everybody in every department has come together to try to really make this thing because they believe in it.


So it really does feel like a collaborative effort. So what I'm doing. We meet with like the other actors, we're creating something with everyone else. This is not like an every man for himself kind of role. So it's pretty it's pretty fantastic. And everybody has like a really different process, you know? And that, to me has been a lot of fun, too. Like how? Well, like my my process has sort of changed a because of the show where I like.


Oh, you asked me earlier about like I forget what you asked about only half listening. I'm just using it as a springboard. I understand. Really. Yeah. Not a problem.


No. Happens all the time.


So it's all this is is like I should probably ask you some things, but you know what, this is a chance for me to talk about myself. Yeah.


Would you please take the opportunity. Yeah.


To talk about yourself as an actor since I've been doing it as a little kid, like there's things like I learn my lines really fast because I've been doing that. I have that muscle memory from being a very young kid. I can hit a mark without ever looking down or and even. No, I don't even know where they put it down and up there. These kind of like weird little things. So I on this show, I learn my lines like the morning of I don't even look at them.


I look at them like very briefly a glance and once or twice and at the moment. And then we just sort of figure it out on the flight. Mine is a little more like not not at all planned. I know what the words are. Let's see what the room looks like. Let's see what the other actor does and looks like First Avenue play. And then someone like Jay wants to basically talk about her like she comes from theater a lot.


So she wants to talk about why her character does something, you know, what the scene means and where it's going. I just don't want to think about what Jeremy, Jeremy, Jeremy does. He's a little more it's a little more complex because a lot of people just immediately say he's method and he would say that he's not, but not for all intents and purposes. I feel like he kind of is. But the things he doesn't want to know sometimes he doesn't want to know the other actor is going to do blank.


That was mess him up. Sometimes he doesn't want you to say certain words like don't call it a scene or things like that. So it can be pretty particular sometimes. And then usually what my job is to sort of like poke fun at him and try to break down a little like, oh, I'm sorry, the scene in this scene that we're going to rehearse and then shoot because it's a fucking TV show. I like to do that to him sometimes.


How do you respond to that sometimes?


Well, so if Kendel is a really good place, then Jeremy's in a much more sort of like we're going to be Batman's got the scene kind of right. And if Kendalls in a dark place, then it's very much don't talk to him. Right. So that has its own challenges, too. But again, I've been doing this for over thirty years, so it's like learning people's processes and how to respect them. Sometimes for me, it's a lot more fun when.


Another actor walks in a room like smoking, I have done a few scenes where we kind of know the lines, but the scene sort of changes and develops because we just throw different things at each other. Right. Like, I slapped her once and she put me in a headlock. Like, we just sort of came up with that. Right. That kind of stuff is fun because we're just trying to, like, play with each other. And so with Jeremy, sometimes it's a little less like a sometimes it can be if it's appropriate for his character.


And sometimes he's like he's put himself in a bubble and I have to work with that.


I just have to approach it from sort of a different angle.


But the real mind, you know, the result is usually like, good it is. It's like. You know, I can't approach it the way that I otherwise would sort of like when I adjusted to it and figured out how did it work that way?


What about working with Brian? Brian is a frickin dream. He and Snooke are the furthest from their workers, like Brian is about the most approachable man. He's like a big, cuddly teddy bear.


Yeah, I interviewed him. I love him. He's a real sweetheart. Yeah. The show or was it a couple of years ago or what? No, no.


It was not that long ago. It was for when he was up for what was the last awards. Maybe the Globes. Probably before the Globes. Yeah. So like within the last six months.


Yeah. Now he's he's really fantastic. He's a guy that can sort of just like turn it on. Matthew McFadden is this way to where, you know, you can just be chit chat, chit chat action. And then they're just in that character without any seemingly any effort whatsoever.


Well, I think that, like, you know, it's that weird kind of British training, I guess. I mean, some of it I don't I don't watch.


Snook is from Australia, but it seems like there's something about certain people, the way that it's like that dumb old story you hear about Olivia and Hoffmann on the set of Marathon Man.


You know, I mean, it just seems like some of the training that the English stage actors have, they're there. They can just it's a job. And it's like, I know the guy. I can be the guy right now, you know?


Well, so so here's the thing. When it comes to like, you know, so Jeremy's process, which is like saying Brian or Matthew is as long as we're getting the result, who gives a shit? Right. Right. Yeah. Yes. Sometimes I've heard of people that do make things very heavy and are kind of method. And then you watch the movie, you go, what the hell? What was all that work for?


Not that great flick. This is what I could make this up in the show. So supportive of everybody else that like it's not like, you know, Jeremy's being a burden or because he has a very specific process that sometimes requires a little like adjustment, which is fine because you want to help. And.


Sure. And it's like, you know, you're all I mean, actors in general are fucking weirdos and you never know what the hell is going to happen. And, you know, you're on a set and you're like, what's wrong with that guy? It's like, I don't know, he's that guy. And I'm like, all right. Well well, I guess I'll go sit in his trailer and do whatever he's got to do then. Yeah.


And that's that nobody's nobody's a shitty guy either. I think it would be one thing if somebody was being method and very demanding. And then on top of that, they were just a prick or something like that.


But I guess that really happens. I've never like I haven't been acting that long in any professional way. So you might most of my life has been standup, but when I hear stories about certain people, it's just so fucking amazing to me.


But you've been doing it 30 years. You probably had to work with real fucking assholes.


I don't really think I have really not. That's good. I've gotten kind of lucky with that. I've had like a couple of directors in theater that have, um, sort of butted heads with. Right. But that's kind of it.


But I just mean the kind of actors are like, well, he's not going to come out of his trailer like somebody who makes an entire cast, an entire set wait two hours because for no reason I don't said I did.


I did a movie as like a teenager. And Meryl Streep with Meryl Streep, she was called to the set last.


And she was like, oh, everyone waiting for me. And in a very polite way, she turns 18, said, please make sure that never happens again.


I don't want anybody waiting for me. Call me when you call everybody else. It was like really nice.


And I remember I learned from that, like, OK, cool, because she's number one course. The whole reason this movie's happening and she does not want special treatment. Don't do that. And I remember Steve Martin doing the same as a kid, too, and learned that as a kid like, oh, you can be the guy in charge and be.


Right. Right. I just I don't know what I don't know the type of person that just knows that they're making someone wait. And it's not important that they do it, but they're going to fucking do it anyways. Like, I don't know what that is.


Why are people shitty sometimes? I don't know. Like, why why are there shitty people?


No, I mean, I've been shitty, but not in that way. You know, it's sort of like I want to get there and be shitty. You know, I don't need people waiting for me to be shitty.


I think people just want to swing their fucking dick. I don't know what I. Yeah, that's probably right. I wouldn't feel the need years of therapy to find out. It's because they were bullied as a kid. Now they're going to just bully everyone else and be a dick. I know. Well, yeah.


I mean. Well, that's I mean, that's it. I mean, as many people as I've been around and as you know, and I've been a bully and I've been bullied, I know both sides of that.


But there's still, like, given the the the world we're living in, in this particular president and everything else and all the craven motherfuckers that, you know, want to be loyal to him, even though he can't be loyal to anybody, they're still part of the human psyche that I don't fucking get.


I don't understand how these people fucking live with themselves, but they've been written about your show has a certain element of that. It's Shakespearean, it's Greek. It's been around. It's been people since the beginning of people, but I don't get it. I know. And do you ever, like, try. Have you ever like like been I've got a couple experiences where I like I'll be at a bar and the guy just says something that's like really racist or something.


And it's like, oh, I'm going to pretend that that's not really offensive and I'm just going to sort of talk to this person to try to understand them. I had that a couple of times, and it's interesting because it gives me a better understanding of where they come from. But then I still think. But you're you're still just a shitty person. Lives like a certain thing. My father said something to like, you know, because he says, I just can't listen to anybody complains about their childhood after the age of 30.


Right. Like, it's like at this point I figure it out. So there's people like, you know, I had a conversation with a guy in a bar years ago, but he was like twenty five, twenty six. And he didn't believe in gay marriage.


And I just talked to him about it. And I want to hear his point. His point didn't make any sense. So instead of being like you're an idiot and your point doesn't make any sense, I think this is actually kind of one of those things. I don't want it to come off as, like bragging. But I changed his mind in the conversation because his logic just sort of didn't make sense. But he thought he was coming from a good place.


He was like, no, no, it's OK. He was saying, I think if gay people get married, this is literally what he said, because I think if gay people start getting married, it sort of promotes it. And then people that might not have come out of the closet who are now going to come out of the closet, and that means there's going to be more gay people. And I said, OK, now can I ask you what's wrong with that?


And he said, well, I think as Americans, it's our job to create more Americans. Other countries are procreating and we're just not making as many babies. And if there's a lot of gay people out there getting married and not making babies. OK, that's interesting. So your issue is that you want more Americans to be made. And he said, yeah. And I said, so my wife and I have decided that we don't want to have kids harm.


Is it? So do you have an issue with straight people not having kids, you know, and then sort of looked at this and, you know, that's interesting.


That's a you know, that's really the point about that. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Why shouldn't get married? I guess that's sort of hey, man, this is a really good topic. Yeah, you do. And I walked away going, was it really that simple? You just need to talk to one person about his logic. That's it.


I think that sometimes that is it, depending on, you know, like if it's based on them, if it's based on an intellectual fault, like, you know, some people have real feelings that were wired into them that are very hard to to to shake them on.


It's just sort of like he's he had this idea clearly he was mildly uncomfortable with gay people, but that was the only thing driving the thought behind it. It wasn't like I hate them or whatever.


It's just like I'm a little uncomfortable about it. It does make sense to me.


And this is the reason I put together for why.


And it was hinging on faulty people want to be good like so they think like they're pushing it and but a lot of people aren't hurt. I think there's a lot of like, well, you're an idiot. And, you know, and that's I think a lot of people are very defensive about their positions.


A lot of people are shallow, stupid people and severely undereducated, even when basic shit.


I was talking to my producer about this, like I was talking to a woman.


I granted she was, you know, a personal trainer.


I'm not expecting her to be a genius, but I'm an actor. Comedian. What what what's expected of us. Exactly. But it was this idea that, like, you know, well, these rules keep changing around covid. Like, there doesn't seem to be sort of any you know, they don't seem that like they say you can do one thing one day and then the next week it's different. And she's criticizing it as if it means that they're waffling on on policy, whereas it's sort of like, no, that's how science works.


They don't know what the fuck it is. So you you know, we got to wait until they figure it out. I mean, it's better to air on the side of caution, but who would think that? Like, I'm not going to believe Foushee because he goes back on his word. He's like he's not going back on his word. They don't know what the fuck we're dealing with.


God, it's the fact it's become a all political and just like but the fucking mask will wash your hands.


That that's the thing I can't understand.


Like, when it comes down, like what I'm saying to you, it's like there's certain elements of people, the stubbornness and the the shallowness of of deciding that the mask is some sort of indication of American freedom is like to me it's like what's what what the fuck went wrong with this many people I know.


Yeah, we're all sorts of fucked. That's that's that's kind of the general I don't know what the hell is going to happen.


What are you going to move to.


Oh yeah. We're apparently staying in Manhattan anyway.


I don't mean to be out. I heard that Brian wants to do Amadeus with you. Is that true? Have you heard.


He did. You did tell me that. I haven't actually looked at it. He told me he was going to send me a copy that fucking pricks he thinking, speaking of pricks and shitty people. No way. Actually, I was going to say something about people being shitty on set. There was like because I grew up watching people be. Great. I did a movie and I was like 15 with Kevin Pollack and I saw him recently and he said something like, I'm really glad to see that you're still working 20 years later.


And he goes, you know, the secret is he goes, I'm like, if you're good, you're good, whatever. There's tons of actors that are really good that get the part. But just be nice and be easy to work with and you'll actually stick around because that's the only reason I'm still here. So it would be good to work with a nice guy.


That's very nice of Kevin because there are sometimes stories of people like what happened to that actor. They're so good. And then later you find out they were fucking nuts on set and like, oh, well, that's one.


Yeah, well, unless they're nuts and make a lot of people a lot of money, it seems there's a certain license that's given to those people for at least a while. It's like if you're an actor that's making a lot of people millions of dollars are like, hey, I don't care if he kills people in his trailer. You know, we don't know if that's true. That's a good point.


Yeah, but if you're just a character actor who's a pain in the ass, or I have put him out to pasture on television, see if it works out, just don't pull it out too soon.


Like, wait until you're making hundreds of million dollars. Sure. Box office. And you can start being that.


That's usually what happens because it's like the last hobbit. You know, it seems like the final hobby of the wealthy is sort of like, how can I really make people fucking hate me?


There's a part of me that thinks, well, they've earned it. That's true.


That's true. I mean, you come off as kind of like that. You seem like you were capable of being a dick. Sure, the people that deserve it, I guess. So if you said, like I've been the bullies have been bullied, like I've been the bully. I don't know if I've been bullied. Shit. Never mind. No, no. I feel like people tried. And I just always have, like, the smart mouth of like and I hide behind the fact that I'm so little that I'll pick a fight with the big guy at a bar because you're not gonna hit me.


If they punch me, I'm going to explode like you're smelly.


Your smelly dad wasn't a bully. Oh, that's a good point. Not really with me or with us. I mean, some I can't really speak for the siblings. Yeah, it's like having seven seven of us, like, all grew up with that. Well, that's horrible pack mentality I told you about, but all have very different experiences. Yeah, kind of.


Have you guys have you seen any like I know no. One shooting shit but have you seen any scripts for the next season. No, not at all, and I'm one of those who just doesn't want to know anymore. I think I was very frustrated at the start of this process of like coming from theater and doing all films where I want to know my character story arc and not being able to have that, because, first of all, it's TV.


And second of all, there are so many rewrites that come in, sometimes a little crazy. It's nuts, but I just go with it now and now. That's my preferred way of work for you.


So the night before, you're sort of like, can I get the pages in the morning?


How many, you know, is honestly look like I'll see you on the call sheet and it says, OK, we're doing that scene. Like, I kind of remember that from the table read. I'll look at it in the morning. But you guys do they do do a table read. Yeah.


Like weeks before. But they make a lot of changes and they do sometimes. I remember in the first season there was a rewrite that came in at like 3:00 in the morning. And Brian, a lot of dialogue was like a big speech. And we did the first rehearsal and Brian just started doing the old version. And one of the writers came up to me and said, Did you get the draft? And he goes, When did it come in?


And he goes, We sent it around 3:00 in the morning, goes off. It's after 10, 30. I'm not doing it. And the Reds look fair enough. So they don't get Brian rewrites after like ten thirty or whatever it is at night because he has a process that he's been working on for 60 something years where he works on it all night and prepares and then goes to sleep and shows up at work. And then I'm like, no, no, it's different because no matter where in this fucking plague, I'd like to see it.


Like, when are we going to get to see another one?


You guys are all you're going to be 50 by the time you I know they're going to have to like writing missing gap of a couple of years because I've certainly aged in the last year with this like no sleep baby situation.


Well, what what is the plan? Is there a plan? There's I think the plan is loose, like there's nothing concrete, I think that's one thing they asked us not to talk about, right? Fuck it, they like it sort of like the loose plan is to start shooting late October.


But the fuck that seems to be a lot of I'm hearing a lot of the late October business with the like with my show. They're like, we're not going to do anything until 2021 because everyone's got to touch each other in our show. So they got to have whatever they can have, you know, devised or the safety has got to be pretty tight to do a wrestling show, you know, because there's also going to be getting on your show.


There's like wrestling like coordinators, like trainers or like that.


Like, yeah, yeah. Chevaux travels there every day. Chelmer works on your show. Yeah. Oh that's fantastic.


He's doing that. He's the coach man. He's talent. He's teaching them how to wrestle. There's Chavo and two stunt coordinators, but it's all Chavo Jabba's that's you're in good hands with that guy.


That guy really knows what he's doing. That's really cool. Yeah. But so everybody kind of has to, like, self quarantine together. Then there's things of like because that's what I heard. There's like the a cable just put all the actors in, like the whole crew into one hotel and you quarantine together and you can interact. They've been like, but what about like my family, can they come? And then there is the daily tests and things.


There's teams of people working on that. And I'm sort of trusting that we have some people in our cast that are in a high risk. So right now we have to be extra safe.


Well, I think it's I think it's going to come down to those daily tests. I mean, that's what's got to go. That's what's going to happen.


And the thing is, one motherfucker goes out and decides, like, I'm just going to go get a drink at this bar one night and come back and test positive. You shut down the whole production.


Exactly. And can you trust fucking actors?


I mean, come on now know. But it seems like most of the people that you're working with or not. They're not there's not they're not kids.


They're most of them are, you know, responsible people. They're not, you know. Yeah. Yeah.


Married people. But, you know, who knows who's going to go out and someone's going to do something in their hotel room. They shouldn't.


Well, I mean, that's just life, isn't it? Is in hotels aren't hotels aren't the real world now.


So that's what happens in those rooms. Horrible. Horrible.


And then I feel like so Benlolo, when I like, go away for work and I like unpacked my bag and I fold my shirts and put it away in this like, come covered dresser that's in the. Yeah, I bring my own teakettle.


I have a collapsible water boiler because I had heard that when you ask for one from the hotel, there might there's an outside chance that someone boiled their fuckin underwear in there to clean them. What did you hear that?


I don't know.


But it makes sense that seen in planes, trains and automobiles where he uses the same to watch his junk washes, just like filthy underwear, that I think about that in time.


A not so nice hotel. And I think and I'm like, I'm not. Oh, yeah.


Men are just like bedspreads, you know, like like I know they're washing the sheets, but what about that fucking bedspread? I know.


The bed. That's the first thing that I do to get rid of those that the pillows, the decorative feel, anything that can't be washed and in the corner. Yeah. And then like I just figured just put my that was clearly that's what everyone does.


I mean, I think that's why we, we know better is that you fool me once sheets.


I'm going to show you what it really looks like.


It's a very weird thing that if you like, I don't know that everybody appreciates what we're talking about.


But I, I, I wrote a piece in a in a book I wrote about jerking off right on the floor of a hotel room. I mean, there's just some people were fucking animals, I guess. But when I get into a hotel room, I'm not you know, I I'm going to you know, I'm going to come on the floor.


Yeah. It's like, you know, sometimes you get the really nice one where you it's like, oh, there's an on sleep on the couch in the back of this chair.


And that's how many I hear. Like it's just sort of.


Yeah, you got it. It's yeah. It's what you do. It's like OK, I've got a shower, I got to order dinner first jerk off on something and then. Yeah ok then I'll get the steak. I guess it's ok. Well at least we know how to have fun in a hotel.


What else is there to do. Work on my lines and my supposed to sit in hotel room and work.


Now I was on a movie and I actually had for the first time I had like a top notch trailer and I was like, wow, even these are kind of gross. Yeah. Even the good trailers. Not great.


Yeah. So when you jerk off on that one, I'm trying to remember if I even like.


Well that's tricky because sometimes it rocks the trailer and then like when they find out later that you were in there by yourself, it's a little embarrassing. Yeah. Like this rocking. But you can not because I'm just in here by myself.


I don't know how people get away with, like you hear about on sets like trailer business. So I can't because most of the time, if you're not at top of the call sheet, you know, you're in a three like two or three people in the fucking trailer. What are you going to do?


I don't actually like him. I haven't had a big trailer since I was like ten. Basically. I don't like I like the little things I like because if I'm in there, I want to get the fuck out and be honest.


I can't I, I never hang out in the trailer. I just changed my clothes. Now I got to get out because it's like it seems like they make it so you can't they make it I think because they know that actors are going to jerk off on things.


There's never like there's never a comfortable with the beds or the couch.


You're always sort of finally or shitty, you know, fake leather and you don't want to lay on him.


And yeah. Because it's seem to come off of it. That's why.


That's right. I'm saying they make him as uncomfortable as possible because they're just actors are monsters. They're animals.


Oh. So what's the rest of the day now? What are you going to play with the kid?


I would like to. I got some other like I try to like do any kind of stuff I like piloted to one day so that I like it minus a day most of the day with my baby so that I can play with her. She got more press, but this one was sort of the big one in the fun one, the one I was looking forward to. I did like a radio show yesterday and I think by the third time I said, fuck, they went.


And I'm like, Oh, are you bleeping me? I'm sorry. This is like I don't know how to not hear. I am talking about jerking off on certain sentences that are very cleanable. You know, this is more my speed. Yeah.


Well yeah. Then you get the poor guy, he's got his finger on the button and they've only got the weird thing about those delays is every time you do it, it eats up the time like there's only a certain amount of time. You can delay it in a chunk in like a segment.


Right. So by the third fuck, they're like, we're not going to be able to save it.


It was great talking to you, man. Yeah, you do.


But I'd like to do this again. And if you have repeat. Yes, we'll have a few years when I have a bigger trailer and I have more stories about now.


Yeah, we'll just hang out, man. When we get through the plague, maybe we can just, you know, have lunch or something. That sounds like a fucking thing. We'll do nothing. Okay buddy. I'll do it.


It. I like that guy got solid. He's exactly like you think he would be. Kiran is nominated for an Emmy for the best supporting actor in a drama series. You can watch both seasons of Succession on HBO, on Demand and HBO. Max, now, I got the wah wah pedal outlets lay into it. Boomer lives and so is Monkey in the fanda and all the angel cats. Don't forget, simply say it's got everything you need to protect your home with none of the drawbacks of traditional home security.


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