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Plus, lock the gates.


All right, let's do this, how are you? What the fuck is what the fuck Nicks? What the fuck? What's happening? Are you holding up? What's happening there? What do you got going? Are you working on that shelf? Are you doing that? Would work. Are you sanding? Are you screwing things into things?


Are you putting things together? You cleaning things? I swear to God. The guy across the street is digging for rodents in the ground that I don't think are there. I think people are losing it. He's got the hose out. He's got the shovel out. I got no rodents in my yard.


I have a lot of birds. I got to sit on my porch and I believe there's woodpeckers here. Is there woodpeckers in Los Angeles? Because I saw one, he seemed to be he just didn't seem to be that engaged in then.


And this waiting game, it's sometimes it's interesting. You really have to to kind of go with the flow.


If you're expecting nature to entertain you, you've got to take in the whole picture. You've got to be like, oh, this is nice.


It's really about this sort of peace and quiet and flow.


But that bird, that bird that he does something and I'm going to I wish he would start doing it now. Just he'll peck a second the like that was it. Go man. Go.


And then you just wait and he can't seem to decide and then it becomes a very aggravating show and then you have to shift, you have to shift to a squirrel.


But that's where you get that. So I have entertainment I'm dealing with. How are you guys doing? All right. Oh, by the way, I'm sorry, Toni Collette is on the show today, you know, from The Sixth Sense, Little Miss Sunshine, Muriel's Wedding, Hereditary, she's in the new Charlie Kaufman movie. I'm thinking of ending things. She's great. The United States of Tara. Anyway, she's the best.


And I talked to her. And I think I took her to task a bit, probably unnecessarily, about the new Charlie Kaufman movie, but anyways, well, you can listen to that in a minute.


I want to thank whoever suggested to me after listening to Martin Short episode, I guess it was that The Heartbreak Kid is actually available on YouTube because you can't get it.


I don't know why someone laid it out for me. I think the it's part of a property that was bought by a larger entertainment company and they just don't give a fuck about making it available.


But I watched it again on YouTube because I guess I brought it up in the conversation with my partner he had.


And what a great fucking movie. You know, there's a few movies of that time that are of that ilk, I would say The Graduate. And, you know, five easy pieces to a certain degree, in a way, but not quite just the idea of the the kind of existential confusion of a generation. The stories are different, but the momentum of the story is the same in terms of the character, and I got to be honest with you, after seeing both of them several times, I'm going to say that.


The Heartbreak Kid is kind of a better movie. It's I just realized that it's Xylene May and The Graduate was Mike Nichols, but I just like the way it was written.


I mean, sometimes Neil Simon can can actually do some amazing things were character. And I can't believe I even said that. But it's true. There was there's a couple of scenes in that California sweet movie. As I said before, the the stuff between Alan Alda and Jane Fonda, which was character driven, but, you know, kind of beautifully written stuff.


And I don't know, it was just great watching The Heartbreak Kid.


It was great watching the the sort of cringe kind of unfolding of a relationship that should not have happened at all.


And then the ending of both the ending moments of both the Heartbreak Kid and the graduate or their spectacular. Anyways, there you go, I just gave you a very positive review. Of a movie from 1960, whatever, 1972, so get out as quick as possible and get to your movie theater in 1972 and watch that movie also.


The other thing I'm doing. Aside from taking in the news compulsively on my phone to the point where I I annihilate my ability to have any hope whatsoever, I. I somehow got obsessed with a band, which I'm very excited about. I like when you get that sort of moment where you're like, you know, what is this? And it's like all this shit.


So I'm going I've been record shopping a bit because I've decided I want to spend some money to try to have a nice time, even in the midst of this apocalypse.


And I picked up this double album, the collection of the incredible string band, and I never heard of them before.


Now, look, I'm not you know, I'm not adverse to hippie shit and I'm not I am a little adverse to Renaissance fairs. And there are certain strands of folk music that don't didn't used to resonate with me.


But this incredible string band shit, something about it, the layers of it, the depth of it, the looseness of it, just the whole vibe of it.


It just I don't know.


It locked in. I locked in. It hooked me.


So then of course I'm like, I got to learn about this band. I got to I got to get all the important albums. I knew that they existed as a band from a book. I have the hundred essential albums that one must have, and I saw one in there and I had no idea who they were. So it was this sort of in the back of my head. Now I now I do know who they are. And I went nuts and I had to get, you know, I had to get there first.


I think I think consensuses the first four albums.


So I'm finding it haunting and deep and transcendent in a way takes me to a different place. So that's exciting. And also, I've decided I've decided that the Kinks, Lola versus PowerMan and the Money Ground Part one, 1970 is the Best Kinks album.


Now, look, I'm no music intellectual. I'm no music historian. I can't even tell you that I've listened to all the Kinks albums, but I do know the ones that people think are the best. And I know some of you are out there who even give a shit about the kinks, like, dude, come on, man. The Village Green Preservation Society muswell hillbillies, certainly, you know, even Arthur. But come on, Lola versus PowerMan and the money Grandpa won.


Come on.


It's the best one. I will stand by it. I had almost a planet waves experience with it and I'm a Kings fan. I like the early stuff. I like misfits a lot, but I like musical hillbillies. I like the preservation green.


I like it. But I never really put any time in the role versus empowerment and great fuckin record, as you can see, I'm trying to be upbeat because like I you know, I have had a wave of grief come back over me and it seems to be settling in. And I'm trying to not let it become depression.


I'm trying to let it stay sadness. And not, you know, become depression. That's what's happening now. A lot of people, and I'm not going I can't I'm not I'll try to stay in this. I'll try and stay into the solution here. This company sume, I think it's called, sent me all this tahini products because I had this mind blowing experience putting tahini and vanilla ice cream and I talked about it. So this company sume sent me a chocolate tahini sauce.


And when I tasted it, I started crying and laughing at the same time and my body started to shake. It's not a paid paghman.


But holy fuck. So that's what's going on with all of that, and Toni Collette is here now. I'm going to come at this again. I'm trying not to let the paranoia seep in, it's so fucking hard to not know what's going to happen and see all this darkness. I mean, it's smoky here, like it's almost unbreathable. And the other day I got it into my head.


When I was like, I got to exercise, I got exercise to keep my sanity, but dude, the air is almost unbreathable, I don't.


I got to exercise and I thought I was a couple of days where my eyes hurt, my throat hurt, my chest hurt.


And I'm like, this is fucked up. I got to get out of this state. I may still have to do that. But yesterday I'm like, I checked my little app.


I got some app to tells me the air quality wasn't great, but it wasn't as bad as it could be. And I said, well, this is the way it's going to be, man. This is the way it is from here on out.


So if we're going to survive, if what we're doing is now is just the sort of day to day struggle of literally surviving until she gets even worse, then if I'm going to choose to do that, we have to learn to adapt.


So I took one of my in 95 masks and I went out to my hike and it was a Saturday and there wasn't anyone really there. And I was like, fuck it, fuck the air, fuck the smoke. And I did the entire hike with an air 95 mask on, not because of covid, but because of the fucking air.


And I just did it.


I focused in I got into sort of a I would never compare myself to a firefighter, but I'm like, they do it, I'm doing it.


I got the mask. This is what it's going to be. This is what life is like from here on out. Deal with it.




I did the hike and the next day my lungs felt like shit, but I'm OK. I'm going to adapt, I'm going to fucking adapt, man, I don't know what's going to happen five minutes in front of me, goddamn it.


So Toni Collette is here. I did get a little intense about the Charlie Kaufman movie, and I do I is a California Kaufman Charlie Kaufman movie.


I'm still thinking about it to a certain degree, but it's really like it's not a matter of like what I took away from the movie. It's a matter of like, what was that? Now I'm not dismissing it. I'm not diminishing it. It's a long, very well thought out, very sort of, you know, meticulously edited and shot and conceived movie.


I just I just look, I just.


The issue I had was really I get it, there's a lot of, you know, teeming thoughts, there's a lot of, you know, insect brain machinations going on. Coffin's a genius. It's just I don't I don't like walking away from a movie, not knowing what the fuck it was about.


Maybe I'm stupid, but I know art is art and I should let it pass over me and through me and and sort of, you know, masticated a lot mentally and kind of work it out. I do know that it got me to see a woman under the influence again. I enjoyed. There's one beat in it. That I thought was great during one of the dance numbers. It's when the I think the the water fountain comes on, I thought that's the best moment in the movie.


Was the musical number when the water fountain. Starz, that was really the best beat in the film for me was that water fountain during the dance?


No, serious. But anyway, look, that takes nothing away from the fact that Toni Collette is a genius and a great actress. Oh, one other thing I wanted to say before I get into that real quick, my old manager, Olivia Wingate, is now in the podcast racket and she's producing a new one that you might want to check out. It's called Come On, Come Out. And it's a scripted comedy podcast. It's like a lesbian version of Alan Partridge.


Can you wrap your brain around that? And it's got a bunch of funny women in it, like Mary Hoolihan and Agastya and Gaby Hoffmann. Great. Very talented people. That's that's called.


Come on, come out. It's watching tomorrow, September 15th, wherever you get your podcasts.


All right, look, Toni Collette, let's be honest, who doesn't love Toni Collette? All right, she is the star or one of the stars of I'm thinking of ending things and she's brilliant in it.


That, of course, is the new movie written and directed by Charlie Kaufman, who I've been talking about. It's now streaming on Netflix. And this is Toni Collette in Australia talking to me in Los Angeles, coming right up.


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What are you doing on camera work today in zooming and doing press for the film all day? So I really don't look like this very often and in fact, I really don't have a look at this, but I have people here making me look this way.


It's a nice room. Is that a hotel room? It's a hotel room. And, you know, I would have done it all at home, but it started incredibly early.


And I have children and a husband and it wouldn't work. So they got a hotel room. I'm actually looking how can I show you this?


What perhaps I.


Oh, the Opera House. Oh, look at that.


Very close. This room is on the second floor and you feel very close to the water and you feel like you can touch the Opera House, which I mean, I live here. I grew up in Sydney. I still love that building. It is an unbelievable architectural feat.


Nothing looks like that thing. That's the only thing that looks like that. Sailboats maybe. I've been to I've been to Sydney a long time ago. I was there. I think it was probably 2006.


Yeah, that is long ago now. I was a sad man. There was a sad comedy club over in some sad area that was some sort of failed fare area. There was like a movie theatre and it was like some area that was used to be like it was for some bigger event and it just sort of never happened or something. I know there was a movie theatre, there was this comedy club and like look like a world's fair almost like area.


That was it part of was it next to Fox Studios. Yeah. Yeah. What is that. Well something like really interesting.


Like the entertainment district. Right. Right. Oh. So you had a great time it sounds like.


Well, the guy who owned the comedy club took me to the zoo that was OK. And he and I went to to Bondi Beach with Luke Davies. Do you know Luke Davies?


I know Luke. Yes, I do. Yeah. He saved me.


Oh, he often I do know he loves North Bondie and often rent some place that a friend of his owns look straight out to the ocean that Ben Buchla did you stay with there?


I didn't stay with him. I just visited him. We hung out and then I went to that place where you can swim in that pool that I think is ocean water. It's right there on the beach.


There's the icebergs. Bondie. Yeah. Also, I want Maroubra.


This one could either to include Cold Wyly's Wyly's Bob's, which are pretty great.


It was great snakey. I used to be able to sneak into them at night.


It was so, so lovely.


So what you did when you were a teenager? I did a bit of that, yeah.


I remember experiencing phosphorescence for the first time and I remember standing on the rocks at the at the beach, Bronte with a couple of girlfriends and we'd been swimming and I stood on the rocks and did like a fake tap dance and only sparks were coming off my feet was so beautiful.


What, what, what causes that. What is that. It's a chemical reaction in the water.


I don't actually quite understand myself, but it lights up. It looks like fireflies. Oh, wow. So when you splash in the water, have you never seen it non-magical. Not in person. Is it only happened in Australia. No, I saw it once.


Oh that was Australia too. Sorry. Maybe now it doesn't have to do this.


It sounds like an Australian thing. I don't think it happens everywhere, but it's rare.


Something has to like be lined up for it to happen. It doesn't just happen all the time.


So what's going on there? Are you like how bat like is life? It's terrible. Or is it is it what's the lockdown situation. Yeah, I talked to a Sarah snuck in Melbourne. I think they like they're under martial law.


They're Melbourne is really suffering. I'm in Sydney, as you know, the Opera House, and it's very different here. I mean, we I was shooting in Toronto and actually I wasn't shooting. I was in prep and I didn't even get to shoot. And then I got on. I was there for two weeks, flew home in the middle of March. And I was on the flight where they announced you had to self isolate for two weeks if you're flying into the country.


So I did that with my family and then went into lockdown and everyone was in lockdown for a couple of months. Different states have had their own rules. And it was weird when it ended because it was like it never happened.


People just went back to, like, stupid sweating in jeans next to each other and going out to dinner and hugging and kissing and touching.


Anyway, it all the shit hit the fan in Melbourne.


And it's all it's a big relapse. It was mishandled, misjudged.


And it's very sad what's going on there. Sydney, you can masks are optional. You can go in eight, you can wander around masks. You sure don't.


Yeah. Do you have a who is in charge there.


Nobody. There's no rule. It's not mandatory. So you just kind of choose whether you want to die or not.


Basically do I wear a mask to the shopping centre and share the ER with everyone or not.


You have an idiot in charge of the country as well or.


No, just ineffective. Not as much as a moron. Perhaps it's just really ineffective. Not as damaging. Oh, very beige.


So did you when did you go back there. Did didn't you live out here for a while.


Yes. And I used to drive around listening to you and it was so much fun and I can't believe I'm talking to you this. Such a trip. I lived in L.A. for four years and we moved home at the end of twenty eighteen now.


OK, so let's let's track it because I'm trying to like I think I feel like I've seen you I've seen you in a lot of movies, but you've done a lot more movies than I've seen.


And it seems like you do like nine movies a year.


I think the top has been five, which is is slightly absurd. But, you know, some jobs are only two weeks or so. And, you know, they vary. I get it.


And I wouldn't do it if I was going to cause myself some kind of nervous breakdown. I actually love what I do, but I also love being a mother. So I balance it out.


Well, how how how new is that? How old's your oldest kid? 12. So it's been 12 years of that. Yeah, but let's see, OK, maybe we start with this movie because I did just watch this movie.


How did you go with it? He frustrates me.


You don't. But Kaufman does. Because it's like, you know, he tries to get everything in, like literally everything in there, he it feels to me that he you know, he's so smart, he's so self-aware.


He has intellectual capacity to challenge himself anew and question everything. And he seems to find a need to put that when he directs a movie and writes it, it needs to be loaded up with everything that fucking guy knows and everything he thinks about.


So given that, you know, a lot of times within ten minutes I'm like, oh, fuck this guy.


I mean, fuck him. So but that's my problem with him.


I'd say that's a success. What a great reaction. Yeah, no, I know. And I and I guarantee that has to be what he's looking for because it's he doesn't he does not want to predetermine or even manipulate the audience.


I think he puts so many ideas into this film and others, but specifically this. And it's very changeable and the ground keeps moving and it keeps challenging you.


But it's also very sensitive, like it's complex, but it's sensitive. You know, there's a real tenderness to it. And I think he does have love for humanity. But I think depending on your experience where you're at, you'll hook in on different levels.


Right. So I'm being argumentative. I love the guy. I've talked to the guy. I think he's a genius. I you know, if, you know, you were great.


And I think you kind of suddenly find out if I how I really felt about Charlie Kaufman. I think he's a genius. Yeah. And I think there's nobody like him. And originality is everything that's lacking in our industry. And it's so exciting to work with a mind like that.


Yes, I agree with that. You know, the thing about geniuses and singular talents is that, you know, they run the risk of being annoying.


And I, I don't agree. I find it incredibly professional.


And I say, yes, definitely that as well. But I've been a fan of his for so long. I love everything he's worked on. I really do.


I like I think like I'm craving to have a conversation, you know, about the film, because there is stuff in it that, like, I really like. This is my reaction to somebody who's sort of blown me away. Like I think it held together, you know, better than Schenectady, New York, which I really had a hard time with. But I think he was dealing with a lot of the same kind of things that he likes to deal with.


But but this one to me, you know, it did feel like a movie. It felt like three or four movies. And and I and I do like, you know, the things that I like the best about it, oddly, where I loved your performance. I like Jesse Plemons or what I like you know, I liked everyone.


You probably just saying that to me because you're talking to me.


No, no, no, no, no, no. I liked all the performances, quite honestly. And but the other parts that I liked, I like when the water fountain came on, when they were dancing. And I say easy.


Yeah. Isn't that amazing? Yeah.


It's and and I loved my one of my favorite parts was the musical at the end, which I don't mean to spoil anything, but I think it's a hard and I and I really want to see woman on on under the influence again. I walk away from that movie like I want to, I want to see Gena Rowlands. Do you know I want it.


Yeah, but but like when you get presented a script like that, you know, like.


How do you even read that and how do you process it? Did you get a whole script? Yeah, I did. I was told that Charlie wanted to talk to me about a project that he had. I was sent this script. I read it.


I was I was blown away. I mean, it's so rich and so textural and complex. And I love it when things are ambiguous. You can read different ideas into it.


Yeah. And then I spoke to him. We kind of clarified it a bit. Weirdly, it's it's kind of strange.


And it's coming out now because ultimately it's about this lonely guy who's disconnected and just living with memory and sadness and guilt and regret and hope and longing and loss and all of those things that we feel at different moments.


But it comes thick and fast during the course of the film, and it's coming thick and fast in reality now. So I find that timing really kind of incredible. I mean, the the the bleakness, the deep feeling of it all.


So that's what the movie's about. It's about a guy who's lonely and reflecting. I think did you watch the whole film or are you just checking I watch it all.


So you're telling me.


You're telling me it's all about several different things. And in actual fact, I can't talk about what what the real constructive of it is, which which you realize at the end of the movie because it would give it away.


I know. But the narrative of this boy bringing his relatively new girlfriend home to meet his parents and how strange and awkward intensity is and how things keep flashing and changing and how everything is not as it seems. That's like the simple version of the movie.


But you read that script and said, oh, it's about the guy in the truck. I can't remember what I initially thought, but I do remember having an idea about it, which was close but no cigar. And we had to explain it and try.


We told you it was about the guy in the truck. I can't talk about it in this way, Marc Maron. But if I give too much away, no one knows what I'm talking about. And even if they see the movie, they're not going to know what I'm talking about until the last bit naughty right now. All right. That doesn't mean it doesn't like I think because, like I like I like the conversation I'm having with you, although I sound like I'm being weirdly argumentative.


I had to sit with Paul Thomas Anderson and make him explain certain movies of his to me because I was mad at him.


So maybe you're not the one to be talking about this with. But but, you know, like for me, because I when somebody presents like Kalfin presents, you know, I'm going to think I'm going to think I have to understand all elements of this and what he's trying to do. And I know that ultimately it's a much simpler undertaking than what I'm seeing it as, because he has this idea in his head. But it's all grounded somewhere, you know, but I don't necessarily see that coming into this totally abstract.


Right. Grateful situation. I understand.


But with you know, by the way, it's based on a novel. Oh, you did. I had not read, so I was not reading. So I really and in fact, I don't do that with anything. I just like to deal with the screenplay because there are often things that they are intentionally left out or that are in hand. So I just try to deal with the material I'm working with and not muddy it up because then I am confused where things are coming from.


Well, how do you approach a movie like this as this seasoned actress who's done nine hundred movies and you know, you have to enter this world that does he simplify it for you that you are just this person? Who is this in this situation or do you see it as some sort of experience?


Like you can't think of the enormity of it, you can't play the context of it. Right. So we are literally just playing each moment, which is what you have to do in any film, playing any character. So I play a woman who is a mother to this boy whom she has smothered and who has no individual sense of herself because it's so entangled with his parents. And he brings this woman home. And I am trying to welcome her and try to present some kind of normalcy.


But it's so painful to share my son with her that she just is contorting inside and she smiles, crying and smiling and trying and yes, just all pain.


The crying and smiling thing is very you. Yeah.


Would you would you call it a there is sort of a kind of slightly gothic feel to it. There's a bit of a horror feel to it.


Yes, I, well I don't see I don't even think of things in terms of genre anymore. I know people say genre for horror itself, but I'm talking any genre. I don't think about that. I always just think about the truth of the moment.


Yeah, that's all I have all over. Right. And sometimes I don't have any control over that. And that's the best that's there.


Those are the best moments actually, when you have no control over the truth of the moment. Yeah, but you but you are in it. You are so exciting.


You just have to let go so great. It's like a metaphor for life. Yeah.


Did that happen on that movie because of the shared stream of consciousness. It seems like we're having a conversation, but it's almost like it's all coming from one mind. Yeah.


Specifically about doing a scene and then moving into the living room.


That whole sequence in the farmhouse that we all really had to rely on each other in order to kind of feel safe in it because it was so long and we had one rehearsal to kind of figure out a little slight structure, not not enough to kind of harm anyone in. So there's still a freedom to it. But it was at least some structure to follow because of the rhythm of it. And we were listening to each other.


They were long shots, too, right? I mean, they were really tight and so.


And it was pages and pages of dialogue. I remember that because there was actually times where I was like, is this still the same shot? And it was the same shot. Like they go on for a while disenchanted by your experience, which, you know, it was.


Oh, people usually enjoy that.


I was engaged in the way that I was engaged. I watch the show or not.


You need to talk to him. I talk to him. Yeah, but he had to come with somebody else. He came with the director of Anomaly's. And, you know, he he wouldn't do it on his own. And I got about 45 minutes with him. And, you know, it was great.


You know, I had a good time with him, but I'm sure he felt that there was no I have found that I have a friend who's an artist and she did one of those TED talks and breaking it down and having to explain her work was really upsetting to her.


So and I can understand that. And I think that's how Charlie feels like he does what he does. He doesn't want to determine how people respond. He doesnt want to give them ideas of what it is so that they have their own reaction and ideas about what it is.


I get that. And I understand that he made you know, he when he's left to his own devices and he writes and directs the films that you're dealing with, something, you know, that is fundamentally an experimental movie, really. I mean, he's very meticulous and he's very decisive.


But the way things are very open to ideas, he is very collaborative. I had very specific, which he is. I mean, he's creating a world. Someone has to be clear about it. Someone has to be at the helm of the ship. But he is very like there's one line. I did see it in the trailer going to paraphrase that I say, I should note where I. I say, oh, Jake would lose his head if it wasn't screwed on to his own head.


I thought that that was the wrong line and he got so excited by it and leave that in.


Right. So he's really open to those really great accidents I got.


Look, I don't want you to misunderstand. I'm aggravated because I think he's challenging. And that's the best compliment I can give somebody who is who is general, who is creating something, you know, like there are certain things like I get mad because I want to understand. And he's defying me to understand something that is fairly incomprehensible because of everything he's laid out there. You know, there's no way you can put that together. And I get it.


I see what's going on here because it's just no fucking way.


But but all right.


That aside, I go only sitting here not say anything because I know I know what the story is. But actually, I, I can't talk about it because it gives it away. But you're saying there's no one to give it to what we need to give it away because no one understands it. So.


No, I mean but if you want to tell me the story, I guess the reason I'm trying to get it out of you, because I'm not even sure what the story is. I mean, I know I know those two people went over. I know the car. Right. And I know the guy in the truck. I get all that. You know what the relationship between the guy in the truck and the couple that came over because like, there is a time issue and I know that time is not really that important to him and that, you know, time is sort of, you know, nebulous and fluid and it doesn't necessarily mean years.


And I get that. But I'm still not sure you're like, is this in a head? Is it not in their head to tell you what I know?


And then if you're not allowed to play it somehow you delete it because I need to just tell you. Oh, yes. Yes. But I don't know if I can trust you.


Well, we're not out to sandbag anybody. I'll tell you later. Yeah, we can do it after and then maybe I'll feel better. All right.


So then like these moments that you're talking about where the you know, you play the truth of the moment, but sometimes you don't know.


Like, for instance, I watched, you know, most of hereditary now.


No idea. It was just because I was trying to catch up. It was kind of, you know, because I. I want to I want to be I want to have a full head of you, you know, going into you with the talk. That's cool. That's nice of you.


Well, yeah, because I have memories of you, you know, in there. But, you know, I just wanted to see you, you know, because you've done so much over the years. But, for instance, that like, I guess what resonates with me because I have been in some grief lately is like in that in that grief meeting.


Yeah. Was that a moment where where where you were playing the truth and the truth? It sort of got away from you into something else.


It was it was a lot of it in that movie, I have to say. I think it was just there really was it's very bizarre. But in reading that script, it was just immediate knowledge of what it needed. And although not knowing how I would like, climb the ladder, I knew I would get bad. You know, I there's some weird knowledge that I. It's just an understanding, and I can't help but do it, if I tried not to do that, I just wouldn't be able to stand myself.


I knew I had to do it because I could feel it so intensely and some. And this is going back to kind of Charlie's idea of things like some things like not articulate about.


But there is such a strong, cool and such a strong kind of understanding that, you know, I'm not technical and I, you know, go and, you know, there's a certain amount of work that you do. You have to learn the lines, you. But really, it's just aligning myself as closely as possible with a sense of whatever the character's going through. And it did kind of frighten me that in hereditary, I really just understood so much of it.


Yeah. Because it was so dark and like there was. Was there something at risk for you mentally? Oh, no, I don't think so.


I've never felt like there. Yeah. You always thought you were going to get out. Yeah, I never feel like I'm going to go to the other side and never come out. I'm not that I don't like I always have a sense of myself, but I'm happy within that kind of between action and cut, happy to just let go. And there's no other way to put it. I don't know how to say yes, but yeah.


Don't you find you act so you find there's a real ease and a flow to things when it's written well, when it's not written well, you can't remember it. It feels so rigid and you have to work hard to make it work. The good ones. There's just a flow. I can look at it and that's it.


Yeah, I think that's true. You know, I don't have extensive experience acting and usually I don't do things that aren't something I can do.


Like I'm yet to be in a project where I'm like I'm going to really challenge myself with this and be this completely other person. Like, most of what I've done just requires me to sort of add or take things out of my own personality.


I think most actors do that, I guess is hide behind the character. But actually it's everyone. It's it's it's all. It's all every character is me. They're all everything. So.


Yeah. You know. Yes. Well that's that's sort of the Charlie Kaufman idea. We are all everything and it's kind of weeds and everything else.


I walk Wölfli mind bending but when did you.


But when did this start.


But I mean over the years it seems that you've gotten like it really seems that your particular talent, although from early on the emotions were coming through and but like you can really sort of it seems that you've grown in terms of the risks you're willing to take emotionally and character wise and also just, you know, weirdness wise, like you think existing is weird.


So why couldn't everything like everything is weird. Yeah, I know. I know.


I think potentially my work has I think anyone's work is going to become more interesting the more they know themselves. Right.


Because there's more used because you're dealing with knowledge. You're not just freewheeling and just. Right. Right.


Yes. You have like I just that's interesting because like recently I've been noticing that my thoughts are coming together in a way that I find surprising.


I just want to say, Marc, I met Lynn several times and hung out with her and I'm so sorry. It was just so shocking. And I am very, very sorry for you and all of her friends. You know, I met with her when I was working with Megan. I'm lucky them.


Oh, yeah. Yeah.


Well, the thing is, I can imagine what you're going through and you will be surprising yourself. Right?


Right. Yeah, it's been it's been brutal. Really. Yeah, but yeah.


But it's a big thing. It'll just keep changing and it doesn't go away. You've dealt with it. Yeah. Yeah.


Well I mean a lot of law sucks man. It is part of life. It's, that's the weirdest thing about it is that you know, in framing grief or in framing tragedy, you realize that, you know, there is nothing unusual about it. You know it. There is better ways for it to happen. There's better timing for it. It's probably better when it's expected. But, you know, there's no way around it. And, you know, it's just but there's nothing unique about it other than my particular the tragedy of her losing her life, but also just, you know, having to deal with that, whatever leads up to that.


But it is fundamentally a human thing.


But it's been it's been terrible. When I talk to people about it, you know, it brings up the feelings.


But you got to go through the feelings. Yeah, you can't you can't shun it, that's thing you can't around it, you've got to go through it. Right. But this is the thing is, like I'm telling you, is right there. But there are different stages in your life in terms of what you're saying, where I think you have these chunks of life, where you think you have things together and you're doing a certain type of work, and then either something happens that's tangible or it's not.


And you're you're a different person because you've come through something.


I totally agree. And actually the shittiest moments, the most beneficial in terms of growth and understanding, I think like when you started like you grew up in Sydney.


I grew up in Sydney. And ah. You folks do around here. Yep. Oh that's great.


What kind of would you what your what did your parents do.


My dad well they had several different businesses sometimes when I was younger my dad used to say now that I had four jobs at once, but it's generally they're both uneducated and they are delightful people and they are the salt of the earth. And they've worked so bloody hard to give the three their three kids good lives.


My dad's predominantly was a truck driver and mum kind of was mum a lot of the time and then had some other odd jobs. How many siblings to two younger brothers?


Yeah, I'm the eldest. Oh, really?


So how do you sort of pull away and become this person that, you know, decides to do what you do? When did that happen?


Um, I think I, I kind of realised I could sing as a teenager and I listened to some of your record. Did not. Oh, my God. OK, so I'm moving on.


I was 13 in year seven, first year of high school and I was unaware of how things worked. And I was doing people at school. I went to a girls school. There was a whole and a line down the middle and then a boys school on the other side and they cast it and it was ready and it was going to rehearsal.


And I found out about it and I was so desperate to be a part of it. And I missed the boat. I went to every performance. I loved it. I was hooked. And then the following year, I kind of got in their early and auditioned for Godspell. And I had this, like, life changing experience.


But I think during that time my grandmother died. And so I think I just I, I did for a long time use acting as a way of expressing myself because I didn't know how to do that. I didn't know how to contact all of those things inside myself. So it was almost like a clean way of experiencing things where it wasn't me, but I was using myself. So it felt somewhat therapeutic.


And you're so and you were conscious of that. How come? Why do you think.


I think I only realised much, much later that that's what I had been doing.


Do you just shut down or was it just like where your family was?


It was you not an emotional bunch in general or I mean emotional, but not great communicators. I think we're all getting better as life goes on.


Yeah, so so in a sense, the the performative element helped you communicate all the things that you can say as yourself.


Yep, absolutely. And connect with myself. I've literally learnt from every character that I've played because it has different ways of living.


You're the first person I've said to so many actors, like I've asked them if you know what they do, they learn from their characters.


And no one has really given me a definitive answer.


I think for some reason, a lot of people, I think that I've asked don't really, you know, make that connection. But you did because it seemed to be what compelled you initially was your ability to move through other people's emotions?


Yep. I think, you know and, you know, I wouldn't have admitted this years ago because I would have been mortified. Like, it's embarrassing to admit that I would have, I think now. But then I think because because I didn't feel like I could do it on my own as me, I felt like if someone were to find out, it would be I would be exposed somehow.




So I was really worried about that. But now I get it. Yeah, it's really very weird, but I feel like a different human.


I know people change through life, but I've had I feel like if I look back on the past, it really does feel like somebody else. It's strange. Do you have that experience? I don't know how many people feel like that.


You were somebody else said it was somebody else's life for that. You're a different person.


Yeah, I think it's my life, but I feel so very different to that person.


Well, I think I had I think I. Profound problems in an earlier manifestation.


It takes time to get to know yourself and figure stuff out.


Yeah, it's yeah. I mean, and I, you know, I pushed the envelope a little bit, you know. I mean didn't you.




Yeah. I maybe had to stop you. I don't know if that's true. Why would you say that when you talk.


You know, one thing I appreciate you. Is that about you. You are so yourself. I am an. And I can feel when someone skirting around and you are just you and I really it's when you speak to someone who's comfortable in themselves, it's actually makes me feel comfortable. You have to do the work of what are they trying to do while they actually trying to say what are they hiding where, you know, all of that stuff? It's exhausting.


So if I meet someone who's actually taken the responsibility, knows themselves, has gotten to a point where they just frank about who they are. I love it. I am so inspired by that.


Well, I mean, I get but I'm only like that when I talk to people like you. I'm only like that when I talk to people like that. Like I've decided to talk in my job.


I know. I know. I know. But it evolved like that, you know, like I was a cranky, bitter fuck, you know, when I started, you know, it was only through I think it's like dueling empathy is what it is.


Is that like I have to assume, like, you know, given how much, you know, how able you are to sort of open yourself up in these parts that, you know.


Do you remember when you started acting, when things started happening for you or in theater where you started to kind of shake loose and start to realize, like, you know, oh, my God, I'm I'm becoming a human being?


I literally felt like it was a religion. I felt so alive. It was magnificent. When did that when did it start?


Like where did you go to school? When did you start to really I mean, I would be known as a Westie.


I lived in the inner city till I was about five or six. And then we moved up to what was more kind of rural, a rural area, which is now just as all the big urban sprawl now. But the western suburbs of Sydney, I would have been called a Westie. We're all frowned upon and kind of thought of as sort of as inferior people for quite some time.


And it's actually something I'm really proud of being there, growing up there. But I was also aware, like at the age of 16, of like looking at girls my age, pushing prams and just thinking, this is not me, I've got to go here.


So I did I'm not an ambitious person. I am open to the flow of life. And but there was something in me at that age that was just so brave. I can't believe it. If I had to start acting now I get nowhere. But I just had no fear. It was amazing.


I think Muriel's Wedding was really that that really did feel like a religious experience. But even doing that musical when I was like 14, 14 years old, then I did. From that experience at school, one of the music teacher said they're doing this big bicentennial musical bicentennial, meaning Australia had been discovered two hundred years ago, i.e. invaded. And so there was a big celebration and they were putting together a musical. And kids from all over New South Wales, which is the state, are living in Sydneys the capital.


So they were auditioning kids. And I got the lead like it was so bizarre. And from from that experience, I would go home every night after going go to rehearsal. Maybe it was a couple of times a week after school. My parents were so supportive and I would catch the training on the weekends. I was so in love with this whole experience because I felt like and I would go home at night and I would literally I can't believe I would do this start at the beginning of the show and run through the entire thing, everybody else's lines, every move, every every note, everything I would do, the entire show in my head.


How crazy is that?


Some people do that, though, like, you know, the whole show.


Yeah, but I mean, I had no idea what I was doing. I was just doing it like it wasn't some technique.


No one had said, you know, try doing this or, you know, like, I, I was just like being 40.


But it's a weird but like I've known people that like, you know, you talk to somebody like Rockwell and he's like, I read the script a hundred times all the way through. I'm like, really 100.


He's lying to you. But that is bullshit.


Oh, yeah. He's I'm so happy for him. Like, they're good on salmon. He is a bloody working and he just did it. He is. He did just getting jobs and just continuously brilliant. I just am so happy for that guy. He's such a good person. Great.


That's good. Yeah. I like to hear when people are happy for other people. I thought that you're both in a position to be happy for each other. It's nice you know. Yeah. That yeah.


Usually when you can celebrate fucking celebrate. Exactly. Yeah for sure. But like it takes a certain amount of, you know, personal being grounded to be happy for other people. It took me a long time to be that way. And I can't I still can't do it for everybody. That's for now.


Maybe neither can I. Not generally I. I'm pretty open to a world negative man rule one. It's true. True than ever.


So, OK, so from from from the musical. But you did. You studied, you went to didn't you go to the school that everyone goes to the National Institute of Dramatic, you touch your nose, I touch my nose. It's a real thing, isn't. It's like a yawn. Yeah.


No, I don't. And you were good.


I went for it's a three year course. I had done one film before I went. Then at the beginning of the second year, I was offered a job because it's wonderful. Theater director. He actually he also makes films as well. But at that point he on film was a guy called Neil Armfield. He's a very great friend and an interesting guy. Yeah. But at that point I was a child and had no idea. And he was directing Uncle Vanya at the Sydney Theatre Company, which was performed at the Opera House over there.




And so I decided to leave NIDA and go with whatever was being presented.


I think I talked to somebody else who did that from Australia. Did Cate Blanchett go there? She went to Naida, but she did the whole course. She was the end. Did Sarah go there, I wonder? Sarah went.


I met Sarah at the Toronto Film Festival several years ago. I think we're on the same flight.


And I was with my agent and she said, oh, that's you know, that's just from Australia, Sarah Smoke.


And she was sitting down with your phone and sitting on the floor desperately trying to get a cell phone to work and trying to organise to get into the city. I was like, just get in my car a car ride with her.


We were both probably jet lagged. But, my God, she's so good in succession. Everyone is so good in succession.


I believe it's crazy. Oh, wonderful. I just interviewed Karen. He's a character.


Yeah, I can imagine he is because he is so good.


So let's go. So then like I'm curious about these turning points in, sort of like, you know, how you started to at least connect with yourself through these characters because you say you're confident at the beginning going into it that you didn't understand that, that you were just a showman, I guess, or show woman that you just loved it. It was you you found the part of you. That's where you lived was up there, right?


Yeah. Funny.


But then at some point did did the confidence start to collapse and the other thing take over. Did you oh did you just ride that all the way through school and Uncle Vanya right into Muriel's Wedding where you just fucking all I'm I'm great.


No, there's no I'm great. I mean I'm always like.


I'm nervous and feel inadequate, but OK, apparently my balls were bigger and took over, like, I just I don't know where this primary came from.


Right, right, right, right. So, like, so, yeah. You were compelled. There was no other way of life for you. And the fear was just, you know, it became just part of the way of life you chose, but it wasn't going to take you down.


That's hilarious. Right? OK, that sounds perhaps appropriate. I don't know. I don't know as a young woman, especially Australia. And then all of a sudden I was working away a lot in other places. So it always felt like a bit of an outsider. But I think that's a good thing. It kind of keeps you humble. I never felt confident in what I was doing, so I always worked just really hard.


Yeah, but as an outsider, you're also special, you know, like, oh, here's the Australian just right. There's so many of us now. It's embarrassing, but you're all pretty good. So it's good. There's no I am yet to see like a shitty Australian. How about that other guy? That fucking guy. Just I didn't realise he was Australian until recently. That Mendleson fella.


Ben wow. Fucking actor.


That guy is my first film was with Ben. I was 17. Really? How old was he? Oh, he's only a few years older than me. Yeah.


Which movie was that? Spottswood. Yeah, that's the one. Look at you. The screen right there referencing left and right. Wow.


We have really impressive. I just read a word.


It was a very, very imaginatively read titled The Efficiency Expert in America who wants to see the efficiency expert at about the same amount of people that want to see Spottswood Spottswood at least has a sense of humor.


Well, yeah, I mean, I don't know what it means, but you kind of go like, what is that? So you got to work with Anthony Hopkins and your first movie. Yeah.


And then his assistant again several years later. And we were just going, can you believe this in Hitchcock and Hitchcock.


Oh, that's right. Was he Soberon Spottswood. I was too young to notice.


Wow. Because I know he's been sober a long time but I wonder so but so Muriel's Wedding was huge and that was pretty quick. That happened pretty quick. Yeah.


Yeah, yep. I was when I turned twenty one during the shoot and then I spent a year traveling around doing Chris Fritze and everything just changed. Yeah. It was pretty fast.


And did you adjust to that.


Well or did you lose your mind.


We're both, yeah probably a bit of both.


It was really fun. So then you feel guilty for feeling weird about it. Right, because you are just living the dream and meeting amazing people and traveling and having a great time. But it was also, you know, was a lot.


It's interesting because all these movies that you did early on, like when I was reading about you, it's you were fortunate in that you're 98 percent of the time, you know, your performance will stand out despite whatever the fucking movie is like.


So like it's a real gift. You have that like even it seems that even when the movie is not great, but Toni Collette was like an amazing so like it's great.


And, you know, and also, like you were fortunate in that some of the movies you were in made a lot of money. Yeah, the two don't usually go together like great filming experience and then rightly well, right. Well, yeah, but like by the time you get to the Sixth Sense, you're already kind of a big movie star.


No, I know.


I was not in my mind. You wouldn't take that away from me, huh?


OK, I'll run with your theory. It's a much more flattering I don't know by the time sixth sense. I mean, why did they, you know, tell you what happened? I, I had actually auditioned for a Wes Anderson film, which was Rushmore.


Oh, yeah, I love that movie, I love all of his movies, I love Wes and his producer at the time, Barry Mendel, who is a good friend of mine, was also working with Night on The Sixth Sense. So when I didn't get the part on Rushmore, there was an issue about that because I had shaved my head. I had turned 25. I was in Mexico. There was a lot of tequila involved. And I saw a pudgy barber's hand, trusted it and said, shave my head.


And then I did not get that job. Rushmore, but the same producer was doing the Sixth Sense.


So he got me in to trade for that with Knight. And Bruce Willis was there.


But at the same time, I was also brought in to do Velvet Goldmine had been at the Cannes Film Festival and Martin Scorsese, who was the head of the jury that year. So he came he asked me to come in on bringing out the date, a film that he was making.


Yeah. That was really focused on working with Marty because night was new and I didn't know him.


And Marty's a known figure and a genius and who wouldn't want to work with him. So at the same time, these jobs were kind of hanging around and I didn't even you know, I didn't even read The Sixth Sense initially.


I was so focused on working with Marty, the idea where you are. And then one night I was jet lagged. I arrived in New York and I thought I'd better read the script and get in trouble. And then it absolutely floored me. It was the most incredible thing. And I got a call.


I'd had both meetings. I got to call my agent said, you got the offer on. I didn't even hear my scream. But I thought it was for the Martin Scorsese film. But it was intense.


It was like that was the right one to get because that's like the one Scorsese film that like no one has seen.


I, too, haven't seen it, but I have a personal reason not to. What is that? Well, I don't have the job. No, I felt really well.


I was probably busy, but yes, I just felt. I don't know, it's an odd movie, I don't know what what happened to that movie, I remember liking it, but it's not memorable.


I don't think it's let's talk about this shaving your head business. That seems like a cry for help. What the fuck was going on? The velvet goldmine. Where were you spiraling? Was it for you? It was so much fun.


Oh, my my God. Todd Haynes is a genius.


Yeah, I know. I love him. I talked to him. Oh, he just. And the loveliest person.


And I think he's making a documentary about I just read about it. He's just finished a documentary on something that they actually as well.


I can't remember the subject matter either, but I did hear that he was doing that. Yeah.


So like, OK, so working with him like it was like where you live and it just felt like that they were all the cool kids at the back of the bus and there's no way I'm going to get this job.


That's how I felt with the Velvet Goldmine.


Yeah. And then he he he really he gave me that pot and it wasn't like. I was not the obvious choice. Let's put it that way, so I will forever be thankful for him giving me that job because I just bloody loved it was so great. We all had the time of our lives. I mean, it's glam rock and roll. It was so much.


Yeah, yeah. Anyway, I've shaved my head five times to be honest.


I shaved my head once when I was I was too young to deal with it. What, what did it freak you out afterwards.


Yeah. Like I don't like how young was. I don't know, like I was in New York and I was probably 63, I was like in my 20s, but but I just decided, like, you know, like that's the thing to do. I'll just get one of those razor cuts. And I really had a hard time, you know, figuring out it made me very self-conscious. It didn't. It didn't it didn't worry me. It did something.


It did the opposite.


Oh, I'm sorry. It's so right. I mean, you know, I was kind of lost.


But you get comments on your head shape like you don't know what's under there. I just was sort of like, who am I? What did I do? What you know, what am I made of now?


What are you on a blank canvas? Where do I go from here? Exactly. Terrible feeling. Have you had that feeling before?


That feeling you do. You do. Yes.


Anything can happen from there. I know. But how why do you assume it's going to be good? But why wouldn't you? Because that's not the way my brain works. You could go either way, but things keep changing even if it's bad.


You must be good on hallucinogenic drugs for me. Like I just for me, it's just a panic, you know what I mean? It's like, who knows what's going to happen.


I'm like, I can't even take gas at the dentist. I know how it all scares me. I need to just stay myself meditating because that freaked me out.


I got so into I've disappeared. I've merged with everything that I had stopped for several years.


Well, how is the blank slate thing so compelling to you if you can't meditate or take gas at the dentist?


Well, I can meditate now. I went through a period where I couldn't because it scared me because I disappeared.


Yeah, I think I can allow to allow myself to disappear to a certain extent and to be consumed at work, but like totally disappearing. Hideous. Anyway, I don't like the idea of doing any drugs. I don't I just I mean, I know there are benefits to doing those psychedelics. And it can be really incredible, though.


No. One that you never had depression or anxiety or lost your mind, the thought of being alive, who doesn't have that done?


People look you here, you got to feel it all. There's no way around it. Yeah. Otherwise, you missing out on life.


Yeah, I you know, I have been sort of paralyzed by a certain amount of anxiety that turns into paralysis that then turns into, you know, not being able to it, you know, like I get it. I get consumed with dread at times.


And that's you know, that one. Yes, absolutely.


That's the worst. Yes.


It's hideous. It ends, doesn't it?


It's not. It's what somebody said to me. Someone said a real nice thing to me, actually. Jon Hamm, like he just checking in on me about Lynn. This is just like, you know, just a few days ago. And I said, well, look, you know, he asked me how I was doing. I said, well, I'm not broke and I'm not sick. I'm just sad. And he said, well, that goes away.


Sad, sad doesn't stay around forever.


Are you close to him? That's so nice of him.


I don't know if we're close, but, you know, he checks in sometimes. You know, people have been very nice about, you know, checking in with certain people.


I like him, but like, there's very few people that I can that I hang out with. Like, you know, who I'm close to now.


Who's a new friend is Tracy Letts, who you were.


God, I love that man. He played my husband in the Realistic Joneses on Broadway.


The willing I play. Yeah, he is. I mean, there's a similarity with you. It's what I was talking about earlier. Yeah. I remember we sat down at lunch, he and Michael C. Hall, and he goes, well, listen, folks, we're going to be spending a lot of time together, so let's just cut the bullshit. And this is my story. What's going on with you? I was fucking incredible.


I love him so much. He really, really, really admire him. He is an incredible person. And I know that he's done a lot of work on himself and he is just the coolest. Yeah. I can get I get him laughing pretty good.


Oh isn't he great when he gets laughing. Oh my God. Yeah. He's such a great giggler when he really does.


And you were also another movie that I love that nobody talks about changing lanes. I love that movie. Right. I you know, I love that movie I showed, you know, I've showed it to people that don't love it as much as me, even with my passion for it. They don't like it as much as I like.


Your passion is infectious enough to get people through it. I'm a sober guy, so it's really it's like it's an AA movie. I mean, it is an AA movie.


So I you know, if you're in it again, it's been a really long time.


How do you feel about like it seems to me that, you know, there's a couple of people and I'm going to compare you to an American actress who's amazing as well, Allison Janney. Oh, my God, I love that woman.


She's M-2 in the way way back. That's how I met her. Right.


She plays the the sassy neighbor, right? Yes. The saucy pickled neighbor. Yeah. You guys should do a thing, too.




You and Allison Janney. Because, like, it just seems to me that as both of you get, you know, older, you get not only better, but, you know, your ability to to sort of take these emotional chances without any sort of second guessing is going profound.


You know, I think if you become too calculated, it's just trite. You've got to just listen to your gut like that in a knowing is the only thing I rely on. That's it. Anything else starts to come into it. I realize I'm suddenly I'm screwed myself up in my head. It's. Oh, gosh.


How do you feel about this? Sort of like it seems to me that you're kind of being used or allowing yourself to be used or taking these roles and sort of I don't want to use a. Genre named their kind of horror movies, it's I mean, I've done actually I don't know how many films have done. I have no idea now, but I've only done a handful of horror movies, to be honest.


Yeah, well, I guess I guess that's true. But I guess it's just sort of the parts and like just something to do.


Right. So they are supremely challenging. Bringing some kind of reality to that world is difficult and I want a challenge, otherwise I'm bored.


Right. So that's how you see it being something real to that world?


Yeah. I mean, I don't even see hereditary terms of family drama. It gets. Yeah.


I mean that was at the end of that was I mean I just couldn't help but laugh because it just seemed totally removed from the rest of the film. And I think I asked the writer director was very clever because he was a first time feature film maker and. He wanted to do something splashy, but in order to get noticed and, you know, open some more doors for yourself, I guess that genre does things I don't know. Sure. Really, it's an intense family drama, that's for sure.


Yeah, yeah. And Gabriel Byrne. So, like, he's such a great actor, too, huh? I can't believe I got to work with him.


Was a great man. Right.


Where are you guys? Oh my God. What a great person.


Great. Yeah, that's good. So what about stage? Do you want to do more of that?


No, I want to direct now. Oh right. Yeah. I've been offered some things on Broadway, but I live in Australia. I just can't keep doing it.


So I have to, you know, direct film. Yep. Yep. That's what I want. Are you working on that. You got some things lined up.


Things lined up. I bet you do, because job and the three of them lined up. So that's exciting. Yes.


But it's an adaptation of a book by Graham called The Best of Adam Shop. And the film is going to be called The Best of which will be I mean, who knows what's going to happen in a little bit, hoping to shoot next to you.


Do you have your DP? I do, huh? Do you know him from other movies? I did a film called Dream last year in Wales, which was one of the best experiences. Have you been to Wales?


No. Oh, man. It was never on my hit list. I'm telling you, the people are beautiful. It is storming the places just unexpectedly beautiful. I will continue to go back there now, but I did. This film is based on a true story.


About a woman who kind of feels a bit lost, her kids are grown up, the relationship's a bit boring, and she'd had this history of like training, like having show pigeons and things like that when she was younger with her dad, something she shared with her dad. And she just decides she's totally broke and she just decides that she's going to raise a racehorse, she's going to breed a racehorse.


And this racehorse goes on to be like be the biggest winner that Wales has ever known and comes from this tiny little community where she gets everyone in the village to put in and it totally changes the community. It's the most beautiful story. So anyway, Eric Wilson, who shot that, is also going to he it's the first time I would be in a room on set.


Go and look at the monitor.


It just looked so I couldn't believe what he had done, literally just with the lighting was just so breathtaking.


So anyway, he's going to he's going to be shooting the film.


Good choice. Sounds like a good choice for Norwegian. And of course, he's great. Yeah. Because Norway is like a magic land.


That's right.


So. All right. Well, I want to tell you this before we go.


I love you. You're a huge fan. I like your work. I like the movie. I was I was just being argumentative because it challenged me. And, you know, I demand answers and, you know, I write, but I shouldn't because there's no one's going to give me answers.


Charlie's not going to give me answers. You're not going to give me answers.


But I eventually. OK, well, I mean, I certainly will.


You know, I will recommend the film. You were great in it. And it's a it's a it's a it's a complex, amazing movie.


There's no way around it. And it was great talking to you. So what I'm going to do now is I'm going to sign off, kind of I'm going to say it's great talking to you because I know you got other things to do and you're going to say thank you, Mark.


This is really fun. I've been a fan for a long time. I used to listen to you in the car, and then you're going to tell me what the fuck that movie was about.


Marc Maron. It is my pleasure. I you know what? I would listen to you. I listen to your show so often. I'm like, what is it? He asked me to do? It wasn't anyone ask me to do it.


So, you know, when I when I I was at my kid's soccer match on the weekend and I was flicking through an email about what I had to do today, and there was your name. My husband turned to me because my breathing changed.


I was so like, oh, God, I'm going to be doing what the fuck? We're not married.


Like, you're really nervous. And it was days before I was going to speak to you.


Do you feel OK about it?


Yes, because ultimately I knew that you were going to be you because you are you right through and everything that you do. And there's nothing to be scared of because you're lovely and that's good. Thank you. Good pleasure. And I'm very, very happy to meet you.


That's good to meet you, too. Thank you for doing it. OK, now what the fuck was that movie about?


OK, there you go, I put the time and see it, maybe spaced it over two viewings I'm thinking of ending things is now streaming on Netflix. Enjoy. Try to keep it together. I will play now a bit more.


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