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Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert I'm DAX Shepard, I'm joined by Monica Lilly Patman, big fan. Big, big fan. Today was an exciting day for you.


Another guest whom you had a poster of on your wall. Did you say that or just clippings?


I mean, sync.


Justin was of my generation, like I was the target audience. I was the target audience.


And look, they got me. Yeah, they did.


Most of the people I think they sold 70 million albums. I read I was in in-sync over Backstreet Boys fan. OK, good. That's the one just. Exactly.


OK, great. So if you're not in Qutub and Kotb on the block, new kids on the Block. Oh God.


They were before my time. Oh well when had you said Backstreet Boys.


Backstreet Boys. Yeah. OK, I'm not sure where I'm at anymore. It's twenty, twenty one. Justin Timberlake. I don't even need to describe but I'm going anyways because he has a ten time Grammy Award winning singer time.


Oh, very acclaimed Change Your Slacks, a three time Emmy Award winning actor and record producer. He's been a ton of great movies, Troll's Friends with Benefits, The Social Network. He has a new movie out on Apple TV plus called Parmer, which is a story about Timberlake, who's been in prison for twelve years.


He's a former high school football star. He returns home to put his life back together and forms an unlikely bond with an outcast boy from a troubled home. He's delightful in it and he was delightful to talk to.


And we got to discuss Ponged.


I know. I'm so glad it's juicy.


Juicy. Please enjoy juicy Justin Timberlake.


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He's an ultra. Guys, hi. Oh, hello. Hi, how are you doing? I'm good, how are you? I'm really good. I'm so excited to have this conversation with you, the movie you're promoting and then our past. There's so much I think that's relevant.


I think there's such a wonderful story to weave that ends up with this movie.


I can't wait to hear about this parallel. Yes, yes, yes, yes. I'm going to make it. My favorite topic in general is masculinity. You know, I grew up in a suburb of Detroit, but it turned into hillbilly country right at my town.


So it was real blue collar, a lot of violence, lot of definitions of masculinity, a lot of shaming dudes for being girly, all these things.


And did you have a similar vibe in Memphis? I feel like you would know totally.


I mean, in Memphis and Detroit, I find them to be very similar cities in any type of sports or entertainment industry. They're secondary or third market. Yeah, like when I was a kid, I like to get, like, the big concert to go to Nashville. Yeah, I grew up in a similar rural setting outside of Memphis and Memphis, like Detroit, a very historically segregated city. But there's also so much music history about both towns, too, that come out of that.


Yeah, even food. They've got their own food. Right, right. So, yeah, it's kind of funny. Like, it's insular in a lot of ways. Right. Like my buddies and I always had a joke that's like, you know, how to make it in Memphis. Right. And so I get out and it's like I'll stop rambling and be a little more apropos to your point, which is, you know, you either played football or basketball or you got your ass.


Yeah. Or people consider you a sissy for me.


Like, I didn't have a dad around, so I didn't have a guy telling me, like, you're doing it, young man. You're on your way to be a proud man. So anything my peers deemed masculine or brave, I ran towards it because I just wanted this male approval so much.


I think about it a ton. It's like driven my life so much.


Yeah. Same here, man. I grew up in the same way. My parents divorced when I was young. My mother remarried when I was five. My stepdad, who I consider my other dad, is an amazing, amazing, amazing man and taught me so much about how to be a gentleman. And, you know, he is more of a soft-spoken type. But I also very much looked up to my grandfather in that time. I was still getting to know who my stepdad was and then, like, transitioning into, like, really admiring him and starting to consider him more than just the stepdad, you know, and that says a lot about him.


You know, any person who marries into a family like that and is able to have that effect on a young person is like, oh, yeah, it's the worst role I had for stepdads.


I hated three of them. And then I dated a girl with kids and I was like, oh, this is fucking impossible. I now feel bad for these guys.


Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, he was exceptional, so I got lucky in that sense. But still, you know, there was a transition where, you know, I was all about my grandfather. My grandfather was captain of the fire department in Memphis for thirty years and then became a contractor, you know, after that. And he was just like I mean, he was like John Wayne. Yeah. Manly. And he was barrel chested and had a saying for everything, you know, I was like, oh, this kid at school picking on me, Pop.


And he said, That's not your dog. You know what I mean?


Like like that mean, you know, you're supposed to know exactly what to do based on that.


Yeah. He came from a generation of rub some dirt on it. Don't be a bitch, you know, like that type of thing.


This whole generation of men who were told not to feel. And now we have something to figure out about it, because now we're being allowed to feel well and now we're the grandpa.


In this scenario, as much as we'd hate to admit it, like there is some guy in America going, oh, Justin seems to have the way I kind of want to model him. Like it just happens, right?


Yeah, I know what you mean. You're saying like there's this consciousness now that becomes a little pressurized because you're like, what do I need to extract from all those teachings that's valuable and how do I trim the fat off the rest of it? Yeah, I was with my wife the other day. I was like making this sort of half jokey analogy about how, like, there's this whole generation of women, there's this whole funny, weird role reversal, because now there's this whole generation of men.


It's like, you know, honey, I just feel like and then these women like I don't know what to do with the feelings, you know, like, oh, it's uncomfortable for all of us.


None of us have any fucking training. Totally.


It's funny. But also like it's a real thing, and raising young males is one thing and raising young females right now is another thing.


We're opposite, right? I have two girls. Do you have boys? Yeah, boys. And yeah, there's a lot to unpack.


I don't envy you at all because here's the moment I always fear when I think if we had boys, it's like someone's going to pick on mine at school, they're going to come home upset. I'm going to hate that and I'm going to tell them what I know, which is we'll either get punished for the rest of your life or just slug them once. Then it's over. Like, I wouldn't know what else to say. Right. You're like, Wayne, do I want my kid to be a victim so that he can help this transition to where guys don't hit each other anymore?


Do I want my kid to be the sacrificial lamb? That seems so scary to me.


Thanks. I'll be carrying that around for a week. No, I'm kidding.


Yeah, you better have your speech ready. Other than that, it's not your dog. Yeah.


I don't know if I still fully understand what that means, but yeah, man, it's just a lot to unpack. I try to be conscious of making sure we can live a life where we're not weirdly private, but we're conscious of making sure they can be kids for as long as possible and not have the weight of somebody else treating them differently because of something that their parents do.


I don't know if you and Kristen have that, but I have great fear that, like, kids are going to hang out with them solely because of that or resent them because of that. Like, to me, the two options seem both seem terrible. Either they're going to have fake friends or they people hate them for no reason. Yeah. So I have a good deal. Fear about that. My little girls did this frozen play and I said, you know, like the little community bullshit thing.


And I said I had to tell my daughter.


I'm like, you cannot tell anyone in this thing that your mom is Princess Diana.


I said, because that's right. That's hard for a daughter. Yeah.


And I know you're proud and you should be able to say that, but I'm just warning you, that will probably make other kids jealous and they won't know how to handle that feeling.


Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, we have the same thing. We're like the kids at school with my five year old. You're like your dad is branch you control.


I guess for guys like us, the hope is that we just keep instilling in them that we got really fun jobs, but it's not who we are and hopefully down the road, then that has more weight to it, I guess. How old are yours?


How old is about to be eight and six, seven and six. Yeah, right. Yeah. I mean every age is formidable. Right. But I feel like we're still at an age where it's kindergarten. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I've done one world tour since we became parents and he was three and so like we play a fun game every night where I walk out on stage and sort of like the silhouette. And I would let him like almost like a pro wrestler.


I would say, OK, what's my pose going to be tonight? Like and I said, and sometimes he picks some poses that I was like, I don't know how I'm going to work this career ending.


Bose's Exactly. Exactly.


I guess for the most part, I try to take the way out of it and make it fun for him now and look at all we will be and they'll have this weird challenge of being privilege, which seems bizarre. That's a challenge, but that'll be their thing. And, you know, we all got a thing.


But I'm wondering, were you going back and forth like Orlando, that Memphis, Orlando, Memphis? I'm wondering if you were like going to a place where your creativity in the fact that you sang and the fact that you like to dance was like celebrated and embraced and then returning to a place where those things were liabilities socially couldn't be more spot on.


But also in a weird way, you know, from a certain group of friends that were my closer friends that were less threatened.


Well, I think I know one of them, right, Trace? Yeah.


And I mean, his mother and my mother, best friends in high school and had us three months apart.


You are ordered to be best friends. Yeah, exactly. I mean, we're basically we're not even best friends. We're brothers, you know what I mean? Which sometimes is like worse.


Sorry, sir. You can't grow apart. Yeah, exactly. Literally no option. But yeah, it started off before I got the first sort of job that I got at ten in Orlando for M.S., as it was called. Then the Disney Channel's Mickey Mouse Club. That was I was starting to sing in talent shows around town at like nine years old and then, you know, end up singing at the mall in, like the Christmas show. And then there was an open call audition for Star Search.


And I landed that. And then I landed this gig on the Disney Channel.


Yeah. Dudes in your school had to be so jealous of the fact that you're on TV.


I think I was like considered even more alien and weird. Hmm. It's funny. You said it was literally just how you described it. We would film in the summers, but it was a six months in Orlando and then six months back home in Smallville, Tennessee, outside of Memphis. It was just such an interesting dynamic with all the other kids. And like you said, I kind of had to physically stick up for myself a few times because if I didn't, then it would just continue to happen.


It's funny you said there's actually a scene in the movie where Rider, the young actor, his character Sam, has been bullied to the Nth Degree. And it's continued on. And my characters tell him, like, I know you don't want to hear it, but you have to hit them back.


Yeah. Yeah.


You know, and it's a controversial and like we're saying before, that's a tough thing to leave.


It is. Oh, it's impossible. It's impossible. Yeah. So I was not in the Mickey Mouse Club, but I skateboarded, which no one did yet. I had dreadlocks that I wore in a ponytail.


I did all these things that were kind of overtly effeminate, I guess, quote, effeminate. Right.


And girls loved it in the dude's fucking hated it. So I was always at odds with the kids that were older than me where the older girls were digging it in for me.


I kind of developed this thing. I'm just coming to terms with it where I got my confidence from the fact that the girls liked it.


I was like, OK, well, all these guys are calling me this and that, but the girls like it.


So all my forward momentum was based on the back of girls like me, like that's what I used to prop myself up. And I wonder if you have a similar background.


The only other thing that I really loved when I was a kid was basketball.


And I made the team in middle school and played point guard and a small group of guys who weren't going to the parties. We were going to practice and we were not underage drinking. We were on a different type of trajectory. Well, but also like surveillance, like we were under a different type of surveillance, right? Oh, right, right. Right. But I think the thing for me was with those guys that I could tell had some sort of standoffishness or I could.


We're going to be the guy that was like waiting for the moment to bully me, you can kind of start to feel that dynamic. And I think honestly, I think that's where I started to try to develop my sense of humor because I felt like I could disarm them if I can make them laugh. So I don't know that I I mean, maybe I did. I don't know that I necessarily would become a different person around those kids, but I would definitely play to the room.


Sure, sure. Sure. You know what I mean? And I think if I could disarm those kids, then I could feel like, OK, maybe they're not as threatened or see me as, like, weird.


Yeah, well, if you're willing to laugh at yourself, like, generally when you're doing that, you're kind of allowing yourself to be the punch line. And I think that is very disarming to people. It's almost like, oh, OK, well, I guess I was going to do that, but he did that. So I've got to move now.


Yeah, no, totally. It was like beat him to the punch line. Right to the punch line. Don't get punched. Right.


So it's like, oh yeah. But we just found a bumper sticker.


But also what's weird about that is you become skilled in the art of self deprecation. Mm hmm. It becomes literally the most powerful weapon you have on SNL. But it also when you get to a certain age, too, you have to check yourself on it because it almost sometimes can come across as was that false humility. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Am I putting a Band-Aid over something else?


Or for me, it developed into this pattern as well, where it's like I feel guilty that I have great shit. And so everything I get that's good. I add this layer of white sucks to be negative. Totally. So that's the false humility.


You're almost like shaming yourself because you're like, here's the quote from someone who's one of the most famous people in the world, Jay Z, who I've been able to collaborate with. So jealous. Yeah, that's just where they for sure. But he's also like a philosophical dude, you know. And he told me a story about going back to Marcy Projects and one of his old friends that he used to like, run the block with and deal with was like, man, you've changed.


You're not the same guy that was here, run it. And he was like, Yeah, I know.


I know. And his quote was, you having you know, he's like, that's it.


Should be more the focus is you think I busted my ass so I could just be here. And so, yeah, like evolution should be celebrated. You know, it is funny.


Yeah. Because that is still like the ultimate burn for my hometown is that you changed. But it's like, my God, I hope so, man. I was a fucking idiot most of my life, you know.


Right. Right now. Totally. I heard something else the other day that was like hatred is basically false admiration. Uh huh. You become basically a mirror for insecurity. I don't know how we got on this.


We're exactly what we do. Yeah. This is the show if you are or bulls eye on the show. I've actually listened to a couple and I was like, yeah, no, this is like a therapy session. This is like that's the goal.


So I want to go through because I think this theme plays into something that you and I have never got a chance to talk about, which I think this of course, this is a great opportunity. First of all, I found out about you today. We have the same middle name. Yeah.


Oh, yeah. Come on, look at that.


What do you think about that? I don't know that I've known anyone with the middle name Randol other than you.


The only ever time I've ever heard of the name Randall was Randall Cunningham, world class athlete.


I'll take that. Were you named after an Uncle Randy?


My dad's name is Charles Randall. His father's name is Charles Randall. Oh, OK. Yeah, and I pass that on to my first son. Yeah, OK.


I was named after my uncle Randy. That would have been mind blowing if we both had an Uncle Randy.


What would be even more mind blowing is if your Uncle Randy was my father.


Randy was your partner. Yeah, that would be I would always trace as your real brother. Yeah, exactly.


So we have this really interesting thing, which is we met at these enormous inflection points for our own lives, like you were, as I remember really recently, left your band in sync and you were starting your solo career and it was fucking working.


And another thing I thought about making this about is I don't know that I've ever seen anyone navigate opportunity as well as you have.


It's really, really, really incredible and admirable and so hard to do. And I do think you've made it kind of an art form. You've taken a lot of things that can be stumbling blocks like Mickey Mouse clubs and opportunity, and it could take you down and then being in sync is this insane opportunity.


Clearly, you got hit by lightning, but then where do you go? The odds are you're not going to go and then you do.


And then you. Go to SNL and you fucking infuriate me because I was a Groundling and you did better than I think I could have done. And, you know, you take that opportunity and you turn in this thing. So I just want to recognize that I think you're brilliant at that. I don't know where the fuck the guidance comes from, but you've done it damn near perfect and it's impressive.


But when we met, I had been trying to be an actor for ten years, never got a job. That was my first job. I go into your garage and the whole network's there because MTV knows that their relationship with you is very valuable.


Oh, really? Oh, yeah. Well, this is stuff I didn't hear about.


Yeah. So I had shot like six or seven of those already and no one was there. No one was looking over my shoulder going like don't be this, don't be that. But I was in your garage for an hour and a half being told everything I could and couldn't say.


Oh God. And then entering into this situation, which you and I were both in, which is a very crazy heightened situation, and I want as much latitude as I can have to do.


God knows what I mean.


Right, right. Right. You know, it's a very bizarre acting experience in that it's real.




And my life depends on that at that moment. You know, I'm saying this is my first shot to be on TV. And if I don't do something spectacular, I'm just going to not work again for ten years. So for me, the stakes were so high.


You did that. Oh, OK. So we do this thing. And then as it was going on, what I felt like I learned about you as a person is that you're just a beautiful guy, like you're genuinely. I'm not kidding.


Like I saw like, oh, that's cool. He's still got his bro from home, like, you know. Oh, he just took his buddy golfing. That's cool. He's out on a Saturday and he's not hungover. You know, I'm putting together all these kind of like clues. I'm like, oh, this kid, you know, he's on the right path. And then when I brought up your dogs, you got really emotional. And I was like, oh, my goodness, I've gone too far.


This is terrible. Right? And this isn't even my kind of show. I'm not someone who wants to prank people or embarrass people, but I need that opportunity.


Right. And so all this stuff is happening. It all happened to you and I and then I thought, this is a fucking beautiful dude.


He cares about his dog. It's the only fucking thing you cared about. You didn't care. You lost your house. You didn't care. All your shit was locked up.


When you vote your dogs or somewhere, you were like, no, no, I will back up because I've publicly stated this before that because of that day.


And my buddy who took me out to Wizzit to golf, got me so stoned, got me and I talked about this before that like I like swore any type of cannabis off for at least a year.


I was like, you did it. They took your house away. The last time I did, I was in the twilight.


So you have to go back and imagine the reason it was genius is because if you watch a lot of those other episodes, they happen in a parking lot, they happen. And of course, you saw this was on my property with a gate. So you're walking in. And obviously, I think MTV, to your point, edited out a lot because I remember I sat down on the porch on the front steps and I looked at Trace and I was like, I'm so I'm in.


Is this real?


Like, is this is this really like I'm so high. This is this is where like the funnier part, the dogs were actually my mom's.


Oh yeah. Oh OK. Oh. So even more so than like if I owned a pet and my whole life my mother has had some sort of terrier cairn terrier or you know a pocket and her dogs are everything.


Right. Right. The stakes are very high. They were so high they got her on the phone, which honestly that performance on the phone that you couldn't hear. I mean, it made me question everything about like this.


I was like, oh, she's lied to me before.


Well, you get to the point where you're that high. And any time you go back to the moment of that experience, it's almost like muscle memory. Like you get that right.


The PTSD. Yeah. So that's where it got really real. And I was like, if I don't get my mom's dogs back because I was immediately going through, like, oh, I'll get the house back. And I was so gone in that moment. The other good specific details like, no, we sent these bills or whatever to this address, which at the time was my old Tennessee address right before I had just moved to that house. Yeah.


And it was spot on. And I was like, oh, this got lost in the mail.


I know that that explains this messed up. What was this? He fucking expressed, like you said, this, I think my friends knew me so well that they knew I'd be so detail oriented about the whole thing because I was definitely for the longest time, like just trying to poke holes in this whole situation. Yeah. Then when the dogs got involved, like, that's when all bets are off. And I just sat down on the seat that I was just like I had this thought.


I was like, what if my mom's never sees her dogs again?


Will she ever forgive me? Oh, how old were you?


Like I was twenty one.


Yeah, I think that's a lot. So I mean, I was like, my mom will never forgive me. Funny enough, like here's how I know I was so high because my good friend who is friends with Ashton and Wilmer had just told me that, oh, they just did this prank on Willmar, where they busted up a fake version of his Escalade or something, and then they got him so good. And it's this new show.


I knew that there was a thing. Sure, sure. I feel like I remember talking to Ashton years later about it because you got to sign off on it.


So the bit stressful for us to pull it off believably. Right then. Right. When you think like, oh, touchdown, you're like, oh, but now Ashton got a sweet talk them into signing.


Yeah. And he's like, dude, there's a whole list that'll go to the grave that just never signed off. And I was like, that's a shame because at the end of the day nobody actually got hurt.


Well Impassion didn't. Thank you directly. I owe you a million. Thanks. Because truly, that show launched on the back of that, that is the number one prank we ever pulled. So memorable.


It was in the news like, yeah, it's what made the show a hit. I starred in a movie a month later because of that. I mean, it's solely because of the momentum you had, the way it all happened. It made the show and it gave me a career. So I thank you for that bizarre day we shared. And then you went on Saturday Night Live pretty soon after, which was great because you had a wonderful sense of humor about yourself, like you could handle all that.


And then you went on SNL and you kind of flipped it and then you got to fuck with Ashton, which was brilliant. Oh, right, right, right. And then I was thrilled because there was an actual SNL character playing DAX.


And I was like, oh, yeah, get out of here. Someone like me was incredible.


I think it is more admirable that you're giving yourself it is signed off because I would be so pissed and one moment like to then be like, actually you guys are great. It's all funny and funny. Like, that would take me a year to get. Yeah, yeah, yeah.


No, I mean, listen, I'll be withholding the full truth if I didn't like six months later go you know what, seriously.


Like just call my mom randomly and be like really like you had to be a part of this so bad that like really well.


And I also think it threads in the thing we're talking about, which is like masculinity. I think also in there too.


Yeah, no, totally. Totally not, because I was thinking of the few people who have tried to make fun of that. I think if I had a son, how would I want my son to behave? And that's exactly who I'd want my son to be. Right.


You know, I'm saying yeah, I also remember that he had a broken arm or was that just I usually have a broken arm.


I just had my shoulder operated on you. Right.


I had like I was like you you you and I kept running. You were like you were like you threw the arm up like, don't don't. We can fight in a month. All right. Now the tables on my shoulder. Yeah.


I got to tell you one other funny thing. So, you know, you have the luxury of like Ashton ran out and you knew him from television. So it had some kind of validity. There were many of those we filmed before it ever aired, whereas it was busy shooting 70s Show. And then I would just say the person who just worked with them, hey, no worry, you're on a show called Punkt. It's coming up in three months.


Oh, wow. Justin is involved in some capacity and people just be like, who the fuck are you? You know, they did not want to sign off without him running out.


I don't envy you that. I don't know.


But yeah, like, I think I still every time somebody is like, hey, man, you smoke weed. I think I still have a knee jerk reaction where I'm like, I don't know if I do.


Do you, you know, stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare.


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Oh, one other thing I just want to throw I was so delighted to see that you participated in the BJ's documentary. Oh, yeah.


Yeah, that was an honor. I thought it was really well done. You know, the first opening statement, Barry says, Over my years, I've learned that there really is no truth. There's just everyone's perspective. Yeah. What happened or didn't happen. And it just like, dude, that's it. Oh, yeah. That's a such a wise thing to say. And then one thing that we can agree on in this podcast is that I'm a crier.


And, you know, one thing that got me was at the end where he was just like, I give it all up to have my brothers back. And I was just like, I'm an only child. What's that, Bill?


But yeah, I mean I mean, the BJ's I referenced them still to this day. And my songwriting Rock Your Body on my first album was birthed out of talking about how Andy give the youngest brother. Right, how he started making records that were even like way groovier than anything that Barry and Robin had written in full honesty.


When they played a couple of his songs, I was like, oh, I guess I had thought that was them. Like fulfilled some of his songs into that.


I gave them credit for it totally. And it was really cool to see. I mean, obviously it's tragic, you know, that he was gone too soon. But yeah, it was cool to see how Barry felt like he could circle back around and through his songwriting could be a part of history.


But it was so impressive, too, that they were like, OK, so that ride, unfortunately, is coming to an end, but we can ride the shit out of songs. Let's do that in the amount of success they had. Writing is so impressive.


Totally. They've always been huge influences on me as a songwriter. Yeah, an arrangement like real arrangement because the statement I made in there that weirdly enough came to me while I was in the interview. There wasn't anything premeditated about it where I said, you know, when you listen to the ha ha ha, you know, like, those just could have been horns. If I'm like arranging a song, I would have arranged the words like, good.


And then you guys sing Stayin Alive, you know what I mean? Like, conventionally, it would have been a horn section.


He was like, yeah, I was just doing this singing thing because I felt like people liked it and they were responding to it. But I've never done that before in my life. And I was like, he doesn't so well, I felt like I had to practice my whole life to get that falsetto.


Yeah, I if I remember they were in the studio, they're like, we need something right here that's like like they didn't have the noise. Can you try to make a noise that it almost felt like it was going to be a placeholder and then they were like, oh wait a minute. And then it became their whole fingerprint. Oh man, that's cool. OK, it feels like a wonderful thing that you chose to work with Pharrell when you started, because you know what a musical phenom he certainly has proven to be.


Know how special to have got to do that with him.


I just wondered how you need to do that. It was just luck. Honestly, I think we would have found each other at some point, the same way I feel about Timbaland, who has been over the years, prolific collaborator. Yeah, but yeah, I mean, we did do one record that we wrote together for In-Sync on our last album, which is the song called Girlfriend, that ended up having a feature from Nelly Sha. And it was just this interesting time where, weirdly enough, everyone in the industry had heard that Michael Jackson was making another record.


And at the time there was this an hour for him by the name of John McClane, and he was soliciting songs from everybody.


He was like, we want you to write something like, we want to write songs for Michael. And I was actually one of those people, you know, lucky enough to get that call. And there was a song that I wrote on the last In-Sync album called Gonne, which was a ballad that I had specifically wrote for him. And it was at this time to where I was nineteen twenty. And pieces of songwriting and arrangement and process of that was starting to really become more and more clear to me.


And I was also at an age where there's also still enough naivety to just be like super instinctive about everything. You also like, feel indestructible.


Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.


You think you're a genius, which is the best gift you can have.


And at that time, like we were literally on the cover of Rolling Stone, the biggest band in the world. And so we were like, is this real? You know? But I was having this moment where I was considering branching out. I was considering doing my own thing. I was just at this age and I've told this story before, but I'll try it again, maybe haven't heard it. I ended up writing that song for Michael. It got turned down.


You just heard that. It was like it's not going to make it. I was like, wow, I want to record it and put it on in-sync album. And so we did. And I had gotten a call from Michael where he said, I want to do that. Record now, and I was like the records out and he said, well, I want to do a duet between me and you. Oh wow. I said, well, it's an in-sync record.


I said, So what if it was you featuring us or us featuring you? Because you're kind of like thinking about how do you market that? Because at that time I hadn't really done anything on my own. Right. And I also felt a real sense of loyalty to the guys in my group. The song was turned down by the biggest artist of all time, and I think it still could work for us. And they agreed and we put it on our album.


And so I was having a lot of feelings about it. Yeah. And we ended up not doing it, but I walked away from that conversation, having this feeling of man, maybe I could do something on my own. You know, it's like when you're in a group, I felt like one fifth of that group, like the style and culture and things that I had grown up loving and bringing to the table were part of the melting pot of that group.


Yeah, right. And that we led as a democracy. Yeah. A lot of compromise.


Naturally, things get shape shifted into what they are because everybody needs to contribute. Right. And you want everybody to have that equal contribution. And I had gone in the studio with Pharrell and Chad, so they were known as the Neptunes right now, and they were just literally the hottest production team on the planet at that point. Them and ironically, Timbaland and Missy, I had spoken to Pharrell about like I think I to do my own record. I think I to do my own record.


And he was like, well, I'm in. And then Pharrell had said, you know, was like, I made these beats from Michael John McClane, turn those down as well. And we took all of that and we took it and stripped it back and reworked and rewrote all of those songs. That's what ended up on my debut record. Weirdly enough, going back to MTV, we were filming this show called Launch. There's all these videos on the Internet of me and Pharrell, like trying to come up with these hooks for all these songs.


And to your point, that was probably the most formidable experience I've had in music, because I went straight from those sessions over two weeks straight to convincing Timbaland to work with me. You know, he and Pharrell, both from Virginia, they have history. They're actually in a rap group together in high school. I don't know why people know that. And so he was like, oh, well, Pharrell is working on it.


Yeah. You got to leverage Farrell's belief in you.


Totally, totally. And then literally, the first song we did was Cry Me a River. It was like I was having this moment where I can't take the most amount of credit for it. You know, it's like any great creative experience you have where there's a bit of a blur to it. There's not a tangible statement you can make about it, which is why you end up ten minute rant about it. Sorry about that.


But yeah, we try to make sense of things after the fact. They just happen and there's some weird magic and then you end up trying to explain it. Yeah, but it's never sufficient.


At the end of the day I felt so honored that beats that got turned down by the biggest of all time I had in my possession. Yeah. You know what I mean. And like you said, like, what am I going to do with this opportunity? Yeah. And that's really what it was.


Well, we all know what you did with the opportunity. Monaco. I was your audience. I was watching the Disney special. I was in that generation that grew up on In-Sync.


And what's so amazing is that we're sitting here talking to you and still exciting, like your career has evolved and evolved and evolved in a way that you're still so incredibly relevant. You're a huge guest for us to have.


It's not like, oh, the guy from that boy band from so many years. I think it's so impressive as kind of what you said earlier that you've navigated this.


Thank you for saying that. I got a weird question one time, like from like a snotty journalist was like, what do you think your demographic is? And I was like, what does that mean?


And he was like like, you know, like, is it this age to this age?


And I said, honestly, right now I'd say they're almost 40.


Yeah, I'm forty six. I doubt I'm your oldest fan.


I've been really lucky to have some opportunities that have allowed me to have a exchange with people that are my age. Yeah. Yeah. I feel grateful to have these moments where you do find out the stories about how just a song you wrote, you know, help somebody through something or that they saw, you know, a performance of yours. The ones that affect you immensely are the ones where you hear about somebody going through something and they relay all that information to you and that the song you wrote, a character you played, brought them that sing to.


Literally change the path, sort of like a butterfly effect or whatever.


Yeah, and to be able to comfort people through that is wild and just providing a soundtrack to people's pivotal moments in their life, like, oh, yeah, patient parties. Like if that's the song playing, you know, it's just you're part of the fabric.


It's really cool for me personally. Rock your body. That came out one second after I got famous and I now recognize I wasn't all that famous, but I was among kids my age. And so, yeah, when I hear that song, I'm like, oh, that was the first time I was ever in a nightclub. And people wanted to talk to me like it's just immersed for me. That song takes me immediately back to those experiences. But you know, the reason you were going to leave that band, no matter what is because what's obvious over your whole career is, I can tell you, just love fucking challenges.


That's just got to be so it's like, you know, you clearly crave challenge and new tests, which explains you doing what you did on SNL and then getting into acting and every other endeavor you've had. It's just very clear. You're like, OK, I want to now test myself again. You could be right.


I haven't really delved that far into that part. And if I'm being completely honest with you, it's because I fear that I might know too much. Sure, sure. That little bit of naivety can sometimes push you into a space of doing something so unexpected that it just becomes a moment. When I was 10 years old and got my first job, I definitely was like, cool. And my mom said to me, you know, she's like, I'm going to have to go down and be with you the whole time for you to be able to do this.


Is this something that you really want to do? And I said, let's go see if it works. And if it doesn't, we'll go back to Memphis. That shows, you know, two years. So it's kind of ironic because like Ryan Gosling, Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, Keri Russell. Yeah. All these names, the casting director clearly saw something and a lot of us. But the show itself, like after we got on the show, was canceled after two seasons.


So we still obviously had a long way to go.


The world wasn't ready for you.


Yeah, but then, like, went back home, got a phone call from a guy, Chris Kirkpatrick, who I shared a commercial agent with in Atlanta, Georgia. And he said, I'm starting this group and there's a guy that'll fund it, but I really am seeking out the talent.


He'll later go to prison for a Ponzi scheme, but don't worry about that now.


Yeah, no, totally. Totally.


But then again, it was the same thing I said. Let's go down and see what happens. And if not, we'll go back to Memphis. But when I was 14 years old, you hear stories about like some of the greatest baseball pitchers of all time. And they're like, when I was eight years old, I was going to be a baseball pitcher, you know, like, ah, you see, like, you know, Tiger Woods is like, I am going to play golf and I'm going to be awesome at it.


Like, more awesome than you can ever imagine. Like, I'm going to redefine LeBron. It literally has the chosen one tattooed on himself.


Yeah. And he can live up to it. I don't know. I never had a specific like these things just led to one another. It sounds cliche when you're like, I'm grateful, I'm grateful, but I truly am because I feel like I've had the greatest teachers along the way.


You have a humility that allows for that which is rare and is a gift that you can sit with people like that and not try to show them, you know, everything. Like, that's my favorite thing to do. I want to talk about Parmer. You've given us so much of your time and I want to talk about Palmer. And this is the compliment I want to give you. And this is going to sound weird if you're not an actor.


But the hardest thing to do, I believe, as an actor is to do absolutely nothing. It requires so much fucking courage and confidence. And if I look at my own career, it's like a second movie out Idiocracy, like I am swinging for the fences.


All right. I'm going to redefine what character I deem is, you know, and slowly I gained some courage and some confidence. And I by the time I get on parenthood, I'm like, oh, it can be me. I can breathe, I can chill. And what I can see about Palmer is that you've totally hit that here. Do you feel that?


So, again, you know, my first appearance on SNL, I was swinging for the fences. I was like, I want to be in every sketch and I want to be in everything. And I want to be the musical guest.


And I'm going to I'm going to do wardrobe. I'm going to do crafty. Yeah.


And then I had the flu for like two weeks after.


Oh, that was the most impressive debut that's ever happened for sure. Thanks. And I hated your fucking guts. I know for sure. I was in New Zealand and you were so good that it got like the director of the movie I was in had it on tape and we all watch it like you're not going to believe, but like bring it on down to Harmontown. That was. The first step, yeah, and I was like, I was this mix of like, man, he is fucking good.


And then also like, fuck this guy or just sings dances. And now he's a fucking great comedian.


It's brutal. Brutal. Yeah, well done.


Any response right now is just going to go the wrong way.


It's a hard compliment to accept. I hate you. You're so good. I fucking hate you.


It's just like weird smile. I'll never forget I'm on set.


And I've now been given the unbelievable opportunity and task of playing Sean Parker in The Social Network.


Yeah. Let's add in a David Fincher movie written by Aaron Sorkin. Written by Aaron Sorkin. Yeah. Again, these are the guys that I've been lucky enough to study under, you know, and the first time I showed up in the movie, which is the dinner scene at the restaurant, it's not the first time you meet Sean Parkers in the dorm with the kid getting out of the bed. Yeah, I remember the stage direction to that scene.


Sorkin wrote something to the effect of like Sean walks into the room like Sinatra on a cloud. Everything he writes, it's so poetic. And you're just like, how am I supposed to do that?


At that point, I think we felt a responsibility to just make a movie and not try to play these people. So close to it was a weird zeitgeist thing right at the time. And so I remember having conversations with Andrew and Jesse where we were kind of like, how are you going to do it?


Yeah, yeah. You're going for a straight impersonation or you're going to just throw that out the window you shot last week.


Like, how'd you do it? You know, in my mind, I was referencing, like, Gene Kelly or Fred Astaire or more, where he could literally tap dance around everybody. Yeah. Flowed into rooms. Yeah. In the movie, he's the con artist. He's the temptress. So he has to be able to avoid reality.


I had this whole thing built up where I was like, you know, but ba boom, ba boom, ba boom, you know, like all of a sudden, like I did a few takes and I walked back outside and I was like, do I sound like a ramped up version of Cagney right now?


Like, you know, you shouldn't sell the thing. You know, it's like, you know, like and then Fincher, like, pulled me aside in one of the scenes that I was doing. He said, Do you realize every time you say this line, you're crinkling your brow? And I said, no, I didn't realize I was doing that. He goes, Yeah, you're giving all your power away because I can see what you actually feel.


He goes, This character doesn't show that. Mm. I sort of walked away and I was like, OK.


And then I said the line again without moving anything.


And I was like, oh I get all you have to do is sort of feel it.


You don't have to let us know you're feeling it.


It's hard. It's hard. It seems so simple and obvious but it is boils down to faith that like my thing knows how to transmit this info.


We're also like a generation of people obsessed with aesthetic. Oh, you know, we're such a visual generation. Like we remember a picture in our mind of a moment. And so I don't know, man, I feel like some of my favorite actors, you know, the Brandos and Paul Newman's Schepper James.


Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The Shepherd.


When you watch a scene where an actor gets incredibly emotional, it bubbles out, but mostly because they're trying to hold on to it and now they're trying to hold it in. And and that's what we do as people. It's our natural reaction that when you get emotional, you immediately like you inhale and it's like you hold on to everything. And I find that to be so much more interesting to watch people and this character specifically, even though he's got a strong Southern drawl, he probably reminds you of guys you grew up with when you watch the movie, those guys that don't talk about how they feel.


And I guess it's coming full circle about, like you said at the beginning of this exchange, is that, you know, the thing about bullying and the thing about a generation of men like having to hold on to so much because there's no time for you to feel you got to get things done. Yeah. Yeah. TCB, yeah.


And then you tack on the trauma of this guy spending twelve years in prison and you find out why as the movie progresses. A pretty cool story is Fisher Stevens. Have you ever met Fisher.


Yes, he's friends of a friend. What a beautiful dude. Literally he's like Kevin Bacon. Like if you don't know Fisher you know somebody who knows Fisher. So he linked me on the phone a couple of times with white boy Rick. And I sat and talked about I mean, this is a guy who went into prison when he was a teenager and didn't come out until he was in his fifties. And hearing those stories, I felt the.


Yeah, and so in a nutshell, you were kind of a star football player, you end up in prison, you come home and then you not by choice, end up kind of caring for this kid in the kids, struggling with all these things we're talking about.


I mean, he has interests that none of the other boys have interest in. And as you grow to care about this kid, you're obviously you want to protect him. You want to make him feel confident.


What's really interesting, and this is to Fisher's credit and our writer Cheryl Guerreros, credit is the boy, Sam. He's not struggling with it. He's happy to make these choices. These are just who he is, you know, and he's eight years old. They're innocent choices. His mother, who was played brilliantly by Juno Temple, she plays a single mom struggling with substance abuse, and she leaves him she abandoned him to go on this bender. Yeah.


And so you have this character of mine whose parents have been gone as well, who his grandmother has taken care of him for most of his life, comes back home to live with his grandmother and just try to get his life together and then gets thrown in this situation and has to deal with it. And these two characters, they start to give each other meaning. And it's a really, really beautiful story. We try to be so careful about how we told this story, the young actor, writer, his first film, and he's just blows you away.


I mean, he's such a ridiculous talent. But, yeah, it was one of those scripts that I read that I was like, this movie has to get made and I have to be a part of this. I have to help tell the story.


Well, you're awesome. And again, I really feel like this marks another chapter in your acting is just huge and it's exciting. And it makes me wonder your pursuit of acting versus your pursuit of music. What's harder?


Different challenges on both sides. A lot of times that I feel like I've made choices in my career. It's been met with even the people around me who are close to me. Girl, you got a good thing going here. Why would you want to do that? And it's because, like, I just always loved all of the arts. Yeah. And I also grew up idolizing guys like Gene Kelly and, you know, Sinatra and guys that were in an era of Hollywood that you did it all.


You did those things. You know, that's what it meant to be an actor, was to be able to dance and sing as well. Yeah.


I would love to see you in something like that, like a la la land type thing where you got to pull all the fucking pursuits.


Over the last thirty years, I'd love to be able to say that I had like ten songs written for something like that. It's definitely been an idea. I feel like I want to find a way to bring some modernity to it. Yeah. And make it feel like it could work separately with each genre as well.


I think Star is born. He did it. I was like, oh, I'm like, man, you're going to take that on. That's the I don't know, I'd be terrified.


And then boom, I felt like that was really well done. It feels a little bit like we might have a window in Hollywood and entertainment where those things can be a little more synonymous and that we might see even a handful of those types of things. So, yeah, it'd be great to craft a whole thing. Yeah. Yeah.


Well, you're the dude to do it. Listen, Justin Randall, what a pleasure to talk to you. This is very fun to talk about the punk stuff for me because I bumped into you a dozen times over the years and we've never really got to sit down and go like, well, we are both in that very crazy situation.


Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I adore you.


Laura Moser says hi at Outlawry Adits on our show.


She texted me and said, like, you're going on Dexter's podcast. And I was like, I am. And she's great. She's what? I mean, talk about another genius. Yeah. Yeah.


Don't play Scrabble with her or challenge her to a crossword puzzle. She's a wordsmith. She is a wordsmith. Even her text. I'm like, you're doing too much, Laura.


Yeah, yeah. Throw it away a little more. All right. Meanwhile, great talking to you. Excited to see you again when everything is normal and wish you a ton of luck on Palmer. It comes out. When does it come out? January twenty ninth, January 29th. Palmer, check it out.


Plus, hopefully by the time it comes out, there's not an apple plus plus. Yeah, yeah.


And you never know if there is.


Ignore the plus plus this is a plus and Timberlake looks awesome and confident and wonderful so everyone should go watch and thanks a bazillion my friend. Thank you man.


It's good to catch up. Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare.


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And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman. We're at your house. I think people should know the context. OK, and we don't have the headphone amplifier here at your house. And so I think I'm not being recorded.


But then I look at the monitor some very loud and you sound really loud in mind, but I sound dead quiet in mine.




Do you have a poltergeist? Oh, my God. Congratulations. Yes.


I wanted to post that picture of you so bad I posted it. Why are you did. Yeah, well, I never know.


You know, I try to be cognizant of what photos you might object to.


I never try to post when I think you're going to object to the one you're referring to is me looking scared.


Oh, you look like you just saw a fucking ghostwriting headless horse.


And did we have such different opinions of what's acceptable to post? And not like a lot of the pictures you posed to me, I do think are horrendous.


Well, sometimes I have to post pictures of both of us looking horrendous because it's the only one that guess looks good in. So that happens pretty frequently. And I like one in three episodes. Yeah, I have to prioritize the guest. Sure, sure.


But in general, you and I totally disagree about when you look pretty in a picture, when you don't write, when your face is neutral, like you had your Georgia sweater, your cute Georgia on my mind sweater.


Do you want to post a picture of it? Lingua Franca. And so I took it up.


You took her six pictures of you. Yeah. And we just had opposite opinions of which ones looked the best.


And I know I'm right about it. OK, I was going to say some things, some housekeeping.


Oh well Jameel from Thursday. Yeah. He emailed me and he said I made a mistake.


Oh, I'm an expert mistake. Exactly.


And I'm going to correct it that he'd gotten the term wrong. He said Archimedes point. And remember then that had to do with maths and I was confused. Uh huh.


It's Archimedean point, OK? That means a hypothetical standpoint from which an observer can objectively perceive the subject of inquiry with a view of totality or a reliable starting point from which one may reason. And other words, a view from an Archimedean point describes the ideal of removing oneself from the object of the study so that one can see it in relation to all other things while remaining independent of them.


Right. So the analogy seems like it would hold is like the difference between studying water when you're in it. Yeah. Versus outside looking at it. Exactly.


But this this makes much more sense to what was a situation that I did not get. So thank you, Jamil, for correcting that. And now we learn something new, which is second time, which I love.


We learn two new things. Sometimes mistakes lead to learning an extra thing.


Yeah, it's nice. It's glass half full, big time. This is Justin Timberlake, JT. This is fun because we had him on.


We didn't know he was going to be singing at the inaugural concert. We did. Yeah. Oh. With who else? He did.


He did one. And then like Katy Perry did a big show. I heard that Garth Brooks was like the main attraction.


And that felt very on brand for Joe Biden.


I didn't even notice that. OK, but. But was that in the morning?


So there was a whole concert at night. It was like I was like a festival.


Well, they normally do the ball and stuff, like it's a thing. I'm undereducated.


I can tell it to me. It reeks of like those royal processions that you like.


No sort of pomp and circumstance.


Just go run the country. Oh, my. Anyway, Justin, it's so exciting to see and talk to someone who you're a fan of as a little girl.


How often is that happened? That's bit more than once. We've had a few people like you would miss you. Yeah. You had a poster of Ashton.


Yeah, but I thought Ashton was super. Oh, that's true. I did have a big crush on him during just married. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He cries and that you love it. I loved it. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah.


All potential suitors for Miss Padman. Just work on your crit, get in touch with your cry.


It'll be a hard heart. That's true but but don't cry too.


Don't walk that line. Men don't cry because Argentina you can cry because of Argentina but.


But don't cry because you're so mad you can't control yourself.


Oh wow. That's a specific. I don't even know about that cry. Have you seen that crying. Yeah. Children do it. Oh right. OK, so temper tantrum. Exactly. Like if you're having a tantrum. I can't, I don't. That's not attractive. But if you're sad. Or if you're thinking of something sweet or something before we move on from that temper tantrum, do you think that's happening in adulthood often? Of course. Oh, really?


Yes. Oh, my gosh. I don't know that I've seen it. Yeah. People get like when they're thrashing around on their ball.


No, it doesn't. Maybe just because they're not thrashing around. But temper tantrums happen in adults. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I just don't see it paired with crying.


Sometimes it does OK. And it's not something you need to do in front of me, ok.


Keep it vulnerable and safe. That's right. And you could be touched.


Oh sure. Sure. Moved by a commercial or. Yeah.


Do you want your life.


Do you want to be watching TV with your boyfriend. And then you see a commercial and then you look over and he's got tears streaming down his face. Yeah.


OK, that's great. That's a great thing to watch. It's not a requirement but that's up there.


Yeah, that would be a tall order.


So specific to vary you must cry.


I think like. Well fuck it. Oh you're going to cry. Yeah. Yeah. I've never seen you cry.


Yes you have. I saw you cry one set at a flash mob.


You've seen me cry three times. I can think of when I thought Arron had lung cancer. Yeah, that was sad. And then when I admitted I relapsed, I was crying.


Oh yeah. I've seen you cry. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm virtually this guy who cries at McDonald's commercials, but yeah, you're right those two times plus we watched a video of the dance, the Olympians doing Hey what's your number again.


Here's my number and call me baby maybe. Oh my God.


I just met you. And this is crazy. Here's my number. Combest Labor.


And they were all dancing on the plane and they are enroute to the Olympics and they all practiced it. And it was choreographed.


And I, I got welled up. I said I said, this is exactly what I said to you. I said, you know, the world is such a tough place and it's so sweet that people fight against that and live out loud anyways.


So why don't you like inaugural balls? I mean, it's a celebration, just like that's a celebration. Like moments of levity and lightness are good and happy. Yeah.


I mean, look, yeah, we disagree. Like, what if do you think when they appoint a new CEO of General Electric, there should be like a big procession and everyone should celebrate that they hired someone new to run the company? That's all that happened.


Now, that is not true.


The president, as we have learned, has an enormous impact on everything on the country and the world on. Let me tell you something.


I would definitely be up for a huge celebration when they are at the end of their term. And they did a kickass job, like we accomplished our goals.


The sales figures came in and we overdelivered, let's party, but let's have a party. You just got the job. I don't really connect with it. You don't party when you get hired on a movie, you there's a wrap party, there's not a start party.


A lot of people celebrate if they book a job, if by because it's hard to get by.


Didn't should have had like the most romantic dinner with his wife and had his friends over and they should all celebrate it and like that should happen.


But the whole country tuning in and yeah.


The country, it's a very mature party, like kick some ass and then let's party.


OK, man, we disagree. I think you're being contrarian. I do. Yes.


Oh, do. Well, let me put it this way. I've never watched the inauguration.


So then you got to ask yourself, why have I wasn't acting like I wasn't interested for the last forty five years, so why wasn't I interested?


I'm not being a contrarian. I've never watched an inauguration. I'm not drawn to it. I'm not interested in it. I'm not putting on airs. I'm not pretending. I'm not interested. I'm not proving a point to anyone.


This is the first time I've ever even conversed about the whole mentality is contrarian that. Oh, it's not that big of a deal. It's no, it is a big deal.


I think it's a huge deal. But I don't think the time to celebrate at the beginning of a mission, that's all. You can understand the logic behind that. Sure. I mean, you feel differently, which is great.


I totally understand what you're saying. Yeah, I hope you understand what I'm saying.


I mean, I don't want to I hate to take it down this road, but like part of maybe why it's not as moving to you is cause you haven't been as affected by it now.


Well, when I watch Carmela get sworn in, that that thing and extreme, that makes total sense. But now we're talking about two different things. We were talking about presidential inaugurations in general. But now if you want to talk about. Yes. The incredible. Moment for you and Christine and all the women who are watching for the very first time, everyone. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.


But so I do understand wanting to see Carmela occupy that role and like, celebrating or same with Barack when he got nominated was like, fuck, yeah. Finally, we have a black president that felt great, just that we had one.


And I do believe in being really excited that we have a female vice president that is kick ass, but that's separate from presidential inaugurations. Banner is what I'm saying. Right. Jimmy Carter's inauguration. Bill Clinton's inauguration. That's what I'm talking about. Now, should Camilla be celebrated as the first female vice president? Fuck, yeah. It should be a party. That's awesome. I totally agree.


It's just, you know, start of something new, new beginnings. And it's exciting. And there's New Year's Eve parties. Yeah.


It's just kind of exciting to start fresh and new. Yeah.


But if I you see my point that there's there's not a party to kick a movie off. There's a group that's a different thing.


No one's voting on who is in the movie.


It's not sure how they voted against me.


And it doesn't have an impact on everyone's life. Your movie. No, I don't think movies are important.


I'm just saying there isn't a job that know, I'm saying the reason it's celebrated is because it's not just a job. It affects every single person. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.


OK, so just, um, I really liked hearing about punkt.


That was really fun for me. I hope it was fun for. I don't know. Do you think it was fun for him? I think it was because you were very complimentary.


Certainly I had something to gain from the conversation, which is I imagine that wasn't his favorite moment in life. Was the face of the not favorite moment in life. Right. And I appreciated an opportunity to let him know where I was at in life. Yeah.


How much I had to do that thing. Yeah. And it's not necessarily my thing. Right. And that I was very desperate to be working and I would've done anything. I don't know. I just I felt good to be able to let him know I was just a guy that got hired to do that.


It was me for when I see him in real life.


Yeah. This is not not even close to the same level or anything.


And I just thought Punk was a super fun show and but I wonder if it gives any more empathy for people who do, you know, paparazzi or things like that, who literally they think that like they're like, well I got to feed my family.


Yeah. I got my family or I need this job or this job might lead to another thing. And yeah, you know, for us, it's abhorrent seeing people who do that for a living.


Yeah. I mean, the way I delineate the differences, one thing is hard and takes a commitment of your entire life grabbing a camera and saying in front of someone's house, it's not like you're you're dying for your art. Right. I want a quick buck. So at least there's some difference there that it's not the best photographers in the world. It's not people want to be photojournalists.


It's we literally just want to profit on someone's embarrassing moment.


Yeah, but some people might look at a prank show and think the same thing and then just not necessarily. You're right. But but then what becomes relevant, in my opinion is, oh, this guy's been out here for ten years. Oh, he was in the Groundlings. We paid to rent theater so people would come see him. You can't there's no second layer to the paparazzi story. It's like, no, I found out from their buddy that they can make six hundred dollars by showing Tiger Woods at a nightclub.


Right. Yeah, but, yeah, it's murky. Speaking of I guess I don't like to use the term bad people because I don't really believe in that. But Lou Pearlman.


Oh yeah. I didn't know whether he'd want to talk about him or not. Yeah.


And there was so much to talk about. There was no time to. But I want probably the thing I want to talk very most about was Lou Pearlman.


I guess I didn't know that much about it.


So he was the manager of In Sync and the Backstreet Boys, and he died in 16 in prison. Yeah. And he was serving a twenty five year sentence for a Ponzi. Three hundred million dollar Ponzi scheme.


I mean, the guy was a piece of shit. There's also allegations from a sexual misconduct.


Yes. Yeah. There's no names written on this article, but it does say there's numerous accusations.


Yeah. Eesh.


Mm hmm. Oh, man. This goes back to this conversation you and I just had.


You know, I hate to say any guy who's whose profession is assembling young preteens, you know, you got to wonder why that's someone's niche.


We come at this from different angles. You're very skeptical of anyone who's around children.


No, not anyone.


Adults who are around children. Men are more men than women.


So. Yeah, yeah, yeah. True. Men who are around, children who don't have children. You have immediate skepticism.


Well, who take a lot of pictures like we learned from Aly Raisman. She said that you should be really suspicious of any man who's taking tons of photographs of not his children. Right.


I'm not ever saying people should be accusing every one of these things, but I think if you are committed to keeping kids safe, you'd be naive to not ask yourself, oh, this is a very low percentage thing for a guy to want to do.


Go photograph children and be a volunteer.


You you know the relevance if you recognize that twenty five percent of children are sexually abused and you have some desire to to reduce that force, then, you know, everyone's got to get a little less naive.


I'm never saying, oh, because this guy drew ten pictures for my daughter and had all these tricks of interacting with the kid that he is a pedophile. But what I'm saying is, OK, good a clock that that's a lot of stuff.


It reminded me of Halsey's short story about the mailman who's always got candy for the kid and always has talks to them like an adult. Like I'm not saying bring that guy in in questioning, but I'm saying, hmm, that's a red flag. Doesn't mean anything, but means I'm probably not going to if that person requests to walk my daughter to the store, I'm going to do it because I've registered a red flag. Yeah. And I think it'd be silly not to register red flags like that.


Yeah, that's true. It is good to just be aware of the things that pop up.


You know, the guy's hanging out at a park with no kids. Yeah.


Maybe he loves the outdoors. That's great, but I'm going to notice that, yeah, yeah, yeah, go OK, I want to make sure I don't see him walk into the woods with a kid, right?


Yes, that that definitely makes sense. OK, well, he said that Timbaland and Pharrell had a rap group in high school in 91. They're both from Virginia, Pharrell and Timbaland. We're in a group called SBI, which stood for surrounded by idiots. The group was created during their high school days named Timbaland, went under the moniker D.J., Timmy, Tim and Pharrell was known as Magnum O. Magnum.


Do you think in reference to the large size condoms or the large size caliber handgun?


Oh, I'm going to opt for condoms, high school or Magnum P.I.? I actually don't know what that is.


That's Tom Selleck and a three white Ferrari in the mid 80s. I don't think it was my first. No, in fact, I think at that moment it was before its like resurgence.


And it was it was cheesy. Oh, no. Then I wouldn't be for real. Oh, he was talking about acting and you were crediting him for doing what's really hard to do, which is nothing ultimately. Yeah. And it made me think of the I think the best piece of acting. I shouldn't say advice teaching, I guess that I learned in college. One of my professors said, if you need to cry in a scene, do everything you can not to cry and just try not to cry the whole time.


And it was so helpful. Yeah. It's so much easier to try not to cry and cry. Yeah.


And in life you're not normally you're trying not to of course.


Well unless you're my lover then you're trying to cry as frequently as possible and that every commercial.


Yeah. Yeah.


Even like built Ford tough. It's like the way you shut the tailgate.


Have you ever tried a car commercial. I bet you haven't. No, you have. No, I'm trying to think of there's been a commercial I cried out.


Yeah. Yeah there are. I don't cry. The hair on my arm stands up and then I get a weird smile on my face that I try not to have similar.


Like yeah I'm like, oh it's a weird smile. And then my eyes well up.


Yeah. It's kind of how it goes. So which commercial.


I just, it's always where someone just looks so cute.


Oh no I don't mean attractive, I mean like humans are cute the same way that video where I just, I like it gives me so much faith in humans. I see. They're so cute and lovable. Yeah.


Those kind of commercials, it's never like the the girls going away to college and the dads crying. Right. But that's like fish and chips. What about Olympics commercials.


I just feel empowered, emboldened, strong patriotic.


Magnum, can I say something you're not going to like.


Oh well what is it up to big. There's a big, big, big, big, big celebration at the beginning of the Olympics before anyone's one opening ceremony. Opening ceremony. Hmmm, let's think about that. Let's break that down. Let's break that as an opening in a closing and the opening, I would say, is bigger, much bigger. Yeah, well, I'll tell you why it's different in my mind. It is that country welcoming all these people to their country.


So they're throwing a huge welcome party. Mm hmm. That's how it differs to me.


They're celebrating that these people have traveled from all around the world to join them in their country and they're grateful for it. And they put on the biggest party in the world to say thank you.


OK, yeah, that's how I think of it. Got it. That's the emotional strength that's tugging.


Not to mention they've they've had all these people running for a month with that flame.


Oh, yeah.


And the guy can't just show up and there's nobody there and it's a parking lot and then he lights the rings. Right.


I would feel a little, but the torch is part of the pomp and circumstance. I was wrong. I think inaugurations are cool. I don't want any. OK, well, this is a effect, but what is for you?


A song that you have matched perfectly to a memory?


Oh, there's domani. There's dozens.


Which one for you in college. We used to go out. Yeah, you did. My freshman year especially. We went out all the time and there was a bar called Firehouse and it was a dance scene to go.


And we danced every night there.


And Gold Digger played a lot. And I always associate that time and that memory with Gold Digger.


Yeah, that's great.


I have so many. We're so sorry, Uncle Albert, the Wings, Aaron and I driving to Texas. I always think of that. Jamiroquai as Ecstasy Get Money by Biggie Smalls is very much Ecstasy nightclub that's very tied, a lot of minor drug, but so many romantic ones.


The Bjork Bjork's album on Repeat with Colleen Shaw Days Love Deluxe on Repeat with Carrie.


You're making love one though. That one we already know. Oh my God, I love my way.


Bicycle. Yeah, yeah. Well that's when it all started these songs. Yeah that's it.


That's it. Yeah.


Golddigger what a time to be alive for real. I wish I could see footage of you dancing because I know that there isn't any because there's some dancing in our friendship circle.


Generally Ryan and I have seen very little of me.


Yeah, almost none of you. So it's it's interesting. Yeah.


Yeah. We've never been at a wedding together yet, but we're about. Oh we are.


We are going to be at one so you'll probably see some dancing there. OK, right. Some say, oh not a lot of dancing but yeah we used to go, we used to get down.


That's wonderful. It was really fun. I can tell you. Have it in you booty shaking. Uh oh yeah.


That's oh that was what you would. Yeah. That's all we did. Oh my goodness.


That's all we knew how to do. We just backed up on each other. Oh my God.


That is not what I saw. You thought. I know what you think. I like that kind of dancing I do when I'm dancing with Ryan.


Oh, no.


That's probably why I don't engage because I don't know how to do that. I only know how to booty shake.


Oh, my gosh. OK, well this explains a lot. Yeah. You're going to Buttigieg. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. OK, well that make now everything really is crystal clear. Yeah.


We were pretty ancestral, we were all just kind of rub your ass holes up against one another. Yeah. Wow. And that was your day.


We get low. Oh. And you try to get low. I would be low. Low. Oh my gosh. OK, wow.


That's the kind of dancing you like because that's not even you're not even like light, you're not even like floating on the rhythm and letting your body you do you do it to the beat.


Yeah. Yeah. You go back and forth to the beat. It's not back and forth. Oh it's you stick your butt out in front and back. A lot to be OK.


I'm sorry you're upset, but that's my generation.


Do you feel do you feel like we're not connected anymore.


It's I guess things changed in your eye. Yeah, it's a lot because it's not really dancing.


All right. Well, I'm sorry that is your perception.


Well, I'm just saying there's all kinds of. Well, you you watch people dance. You know, there's a lot going on when you see Bruno Mars.


Oh, God, I love him.


That's dancing like you're all you're all over you're all over the place. There's a lot going on. It's not just standing in one spot, just pumping your ass out.


Well, that's what I did. I bet you're great at it. That much practice doing the exact same move.


Oh, my God. Wow.


Good good old days. Good old days. All right. All right. Love you. Love you.