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Welcome, welcome, unarmed expert, I'm DAX Shepard, I'm joined by Monica Liley Padman that's me. I wish I was Monica Portman.


Oh God, don't we all. Our guest today is Natalie Portman. Which boy? A boy rarely do.


Monica and I have our same favorite actor in the same episode. I know.


Oh, my God. And it's such an exciting revelation about Monica's very personal past with Natalie Portman.


OK, wait to find out. Yes, it's a cliffhanger.


Natalie Portman, of course, is an Academy Award and Golden Globe winning actress, director, producer and activist. I fell in love with her on the professional. Of course, she was fantastic.


And Closer and Black Swan, many of the Star Wars, Jackie, Garden State, there's so many.


Natalie has a new book out which I own and I've read to my children called Natalie Portman's Fables.


So we will talk a bit about that. Also, before we dig into the ever delicious Natalie Portman. We want to tell you that our new show, Nurture versus Nurture, with Wendy Mogel, is screening for potential guests to be on her program.


We're really, really, really excited about this podcast.


Incredibly excited. It is family therapy. Yeah, we've already heard an episode and we are absolutely gobstopper. That's not the word, is it?


Godse gobsmacked. We were gobsmacked. It's so good.


And this specific podcast is extra cool because it involves you guys. Yes. Real families. We're going to do therapy with real families and Wendy. And so there's an application process if you want to be a part of it.


We are looking for families with unique backgrounds, circus families, farming families, families with a professional athlete, military family, same gender families, multiracial, single parent, you name it. If this describes your family or family, you know, and you think you would like to be under the amazing guidance of Wendy Mogel for an episode, please go to bitty dot l y slash nurture podcast.


So that's bit dot l y slash nurture podcast.


We'll also have it on our Instagram on stories and stuff. You can swipe and we'll post about it, put it in our link and also on our website and on our website as well.


So there's places you can find it but guys do apply. Yeah.


Just again, in the first episode I already heard I related so much as someone with children. And then Monica, you related so much without children. Yeah, our problems are universal.


If we've learned anything, they sure are. Now, please enjoy Natalie Portman. We are supported by Squarespace. Of course, you know, Squarespace is a place to go and make a beautiful website. It's where we made our website armchair expert Pod Dotcom. You could go to Squarespace and turn your cool idea into a new website.


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The holidays are approaching. There's a lot going on. I want you to know that better help. Online counseling offers a licensed professional therapist who are trained to listen and to help with issues including anxiety, grief, depression, difficulty sleeping, family conflicts and more. I'm currently in therapy. I go every Wednesday at two p.m. if you want to me. That's where I met Thursday at eleven.


And you just brought an issue that came up on the show. I did see your therapist. I sure did. And she had a great response. She did. We wouldn't come to that without her. Now listen, to get started on better help, all you have to do is fill out a questionnaire to help assess your specific needs and then get matched with your counselor. In under forty eight hours, you can easily schedule secure video or phone sessions, plus exchange unlimited messages to communicate with your therapist at your convenience.


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He's in our chat. It's happening, our friends, we did it. Wow, this interview has had the most stick to witness of any project, probably.


I'm very committed. You're very committed, right? Yeah. And I'm going to point something out to you really quick. Do you feel good? You feel like you're recording and you feel your CZI is aligned.


I mean, much is not aligned.


But I also feel. Well, let's straighten that out. I am recording. Yeah, please help me. That's what I'm here for, right. Yeah.


OK, so do you have a roll of pennies is going to play a big role in this alignment.


Shit. No, you got to give like a heads up. There's something copper here. OK, I want to point something out to you. You probably missed it. So I wore this shirt last time we spoke.


Have you been wearing it since then? I have not taken it off, no.


I wore it again, twofold continuity. And two, because I've assessed you as being a fan of Foushee and I'm trying to win your something.


You have my approval. My sibling hood in your support and love of Foushee. I'm with you. I was just listening to him on the Bill Gates Rashida Jones podcast yesterday. And just heart exploding as always. Any time I listen to him back up.


Bill Gates and Rashida Jones have a podcast. You haven't listened yet. It's amazing that they're always doing together.


Yeah. Oh.


Oh, we're so jealous. You just ruined our life. We interviewed him. He sent us Diet Cokes with our names on them. We thought we were best friends with him. And he this is very. Oh, my God, this interview.


Maybe you inspired him. Maybe he was like, look at this incredible pairing.


How did she get this? Oh, my God, she is the coolest. She's very, very cool.


There's no question about that. OK, I don't know where to go now. It probably won't shock you to know that my wife got me this t shirt, so I don't want to take too much credit. Your wife is the best. Yes, that's unanimous. OK, so last night we were talking about the zoo.


There's a lot of Internet issue. What I'm curious about is what has changed in the Internet landscape since we last talked to you, because this is dynamite.


Well, I got a dongle. What's that? Oh, it's like a thing. It's like a mobile Internet backup plan. I just learned about it. And it sounds like a word that you're not supposed to set that up.


And that thing works like gangbusters.


It's really, really happening.


What happened in your world since we all we went to the sand dunes, we went off roading where the sand dunes, they are south of the Salton Sea.


They're four hundred square miles and they actually go up to Mexico. The wall is within the sand dunes. You can off road to it.


In fact, we did. And what was that like?


I had been many times I was just going to new people were at the dunes. And to be honest, it's kind of like showing people the sign in Hollywood. You're like, yep, it's right there.


Except with, like, deep political disruption.


Now, now. But I've been going to the dunes for 14 years. That wall's been there forever. And I used to go to it. It was just like, oh, wow, look at the steel wall and then you put your hand through it. You're like, Oh, I'm in Mexico now. I'm not took a selfie of myself from Mexico.


But yes, now it is this incredible beacon of political angst. Yeah.


OK, now you were born in Jerusalem. Correct? And I'm curious because mom was American and father was Israeli. How did they meet? Did they meet here or do they meet there?


What an excellent question. They met here. Well, here being the US, that's complicated. We're days when I'm in Australia. They met my mom was at Ohio State University and my father was doing electives in medical school at Ohio State University, and they met at Hillel House, the Jewish students clubs.


Oh, that's last Jewish story. And then he went back to Israel and then she, like, you know, went there and met him. And anyway, so, yes. So I was born in Jerusalem, which significantly, I think until recently, I don't know if they changed it recently, but it doesn't say Israel on my passport. It says Jerusalem because Jerusalem is not recognized internationally as part of Israel, because it's like, I think very special to be like an international city.




It's almost like being born in the Vatican or something. Exactly. I think it's like one of the few places that's like internationally recognized as like an international city. Of course, Israel claims it as an Israeli city.


So in nineteen eighty one, they were viewing themselves, the citizens of Jerusalem, as a sovereign state.


No, they did not view themselves that way at all.


But the rest of the world, it's just I think because it's contested the rest of the world. Is recognizing it as like a non attributed city. So I have my passport. It doesn't say a country that I was born in and just as a city.


Oh, that's wild because mom's American. You had no problem having American citizenship. Is it dicey to be born there?


I was born with American citizenship because of my mother.


OK, now, when mom moved there, where did mom grew up? In Ohio. Ohio? My mom's from Cincinnati. Oh, sensi wonderful.


She's certainly been to Cedar Point where she and I could talk about that for the Kings Island growing up.


Oh, she did? Yeah, she was like Cincinnati. My whole family's very Cincinnati. So it's very friendly. We smile a lot.


Israel's a big departure from Cincinnati. How does she like it?


She was super brave. She hadn't been out of the country before she moved to Israel. And it was like a developing nation with a thousand percent inflation when she moved there in the late 70s. And so I think it was a big shock, but very brave and cool that she took that leap of faith for love. Yeah.


And how many years were you there before you guys moved back? So she was there six years, but I was there till I was three because they were obviously married for a little. They did things properly where they were married first and then had babies later. Yeah.


So traditional. So that's what we did. We went ahead and had a kid. Yeah.


Same our kid was at our wedding but that's cool. Same.


Same. So when you guys move back to the States, what drove that move? Was it a job opportunity? Was they were just had enough of it?


Yeah, I think it was simultaneously like my grandfather was sick, so my mom wanted to be near him. And then my dad, like, found work opportunities here, too. So he continued his, like, medical education and came to the states.


You're an only child. Yeah. Yes, yes. Yes.


It shows I. I will not share what we want to know this because this is something we've observed in our friendship circle.


The only children, they have no problem. Like we're at a busy party and they'll go up stairs, they'll read a book or they'll take a nap in plain sight. They have no problem just breaking off and doing their own thing is that, you know.


No, no, no. OK, I'm very like Jewish mother, OK? Product, which is like you have to take care of everybody at all times, even if they're not asking for it. I have like high anxiety around making sure everyone is happy and feels attended to and I would never, ever leave a group of people. So I think that overrides the only child a. a proper co-dependent. You're good at being alone. I am. But I would never leave a group of people.


So our friends are just asked.


Several of our friends are envy. I envy that because I don't know. My husband's always saying to me, like Natalie, that everyone's a grown up. Like you don't need to take care of people. They're fine.


I need your husband in my life because I'm a middle child who's constantly like, there could be an argument. My comedy is going to be needed to take the fire down a notch. So you were in D.C. and then you went to Connecticut and then you were into dance and so on and so forth, and you start acting really early. And of course, boy, I don't know if I should tell you this now or later. So when Chris and I first started dating, she went out to the garage, you know, as my toolbox was open and there was a gigantic picture of you.


It had been in my tool box for twelve years. You you're my favorite actress of all time.


I'm so honored. That's nice. I don't know if that's good or bad to get out now. I'm sure my husband had a picture of Kristen in his life. OK, good, good dressing room at the ballet.


So everything's even.


OK, good. So you'll find that a lot of my questions are going to be kind of about when I became obsessed with you before you stopped caring, right?


Totally. I couldn't care less about you know, we live close to each other. I've seen you in real life and I'm like, it's boring.


We're all boring, aren't we? We all wait.


Before we get into those questions, do you get this all the time? Because you've been around for so long and you've been in the public eye for so long that people always want to bring you back to your past?


Oh, gosh, I don't know. Sorry. I have very small ears. I don't know if you've noticed. It's hard for me to keep track of this.


You're one of the worst equipped movie stars we've ever talked to. Shitty headphones, the worst Internet.


But you've got to be kidding. I'm always like the windows open. OK, yeah. So a lot of people definitely like love the professional. So that is by far the thing people talk to me about the most above Star Wars.


Yeah. Which is surprising when I'd say Star Wars is a close second. Uh huh. But the professional is like really means a lot to people, which is very cool because I also don't feel. You know, anything that I feel very close to, like I had anything to do with its success, I get more like shy about or like uncomfortable taking compliments. But when you're 12, you're like, I didn't know what the hell I was doing.


I'm so happy you love it. That's so great. Like, that wasn't me.


That was a whole other group of people that made that successful. And I can feel happy that that makes you happy. You know, I can accept the compliment more easily.


Well, that's a great point, because to be honest with you, they could have put anyone in Star Wars and it would have done great. That's you, of course, are great in Star Wars. But definitely Star Wars is the star of Star Wars, the professional.


If you're not exactly who you are in that movie, it doesn't work. Well, thank you, Leon. Doesn't fall for this kid. And this kid isn't portraying the loneliness and the loss and all these things.


The movie just it literally hinges on you, maybe more than any other movie you've done.


It was really fun for me. It was very exciting to get to just, like, mess around while I was 11 and turn 12 while I was shooting.


So here's where it gets dicey. So I'm six years older than you. And this will be a theme I think is very interesting.


I sense where this is going. I have to imagine this was a common thing, which is you got cast in that. And then I was like, oh my God, this person is so talented and so cute. And so everything was like you also I'm 19. I shouldn't feel that way about whatever. Or maybe I was 18. This is terrible.


I'm like, you're going to be fueling some conspiracies.


Well, the premise of Beautiful Girls is Timothy Hutton gets infected. Yes. Yes. Infected with this cute girl who's precocious and wiser than her ears. And there's something whimsical about it, like of this girl knows love before it's jaded. There's like some pretty things and there's some complicated, dicey things. And now, I don't know, that movie gets me I mean, there's so many layers.


So I'm working through my own stuff with you, which is there were times where I shouldn't be so in love with this girl.


But yet Timothy Hutton is he's much older than me. I guess I'm fine. Was that something you were aware of? I guess that's where I'm going with all of this.


I was definitely aware of the fact that, like, I was being portrayed like manly and kind of journalism around when the movies would come out as like this, like Lolita figure and stuff. And yeah, I've actually talked about it. I wrote a thing about it for the Women's March a few years ago about how being sexualized as a child, I think took away from my own sexuality because it made me afraid and it made me feel like the way that I could be safe was to be like, I'm conservative and I'm like serious and you should respect me and I'm smart and like, don't look at me that way.


Whereas, like, you know, that age is like you do have your own sexuality and you do have your own desire and you do want to explore things and you do want to be open, but you don't feel safe necessarily when there's like older men that are like, yeah, Treston, you're like, no, no, no, no, no, no.


And so I feel like you build these fortresses around you and also take on, like so many people, I think had this impression of me that I was like super serious and like prude and like conservative as I get older.


And I realize I consciously cultivated that because it was ways to make me feel safe, that, oh, if someone respects you, they're not going to objectify.


Well, we interviewed the California surgeon general and she was talking about childhood ACS. Right. In a common outcome of that for women who are molested, it's pretty common for them to gain a bunch of weight to become invisible. They want to be not seen by men ever again. And so it doesn't surprise me that you had your own kind of defense against that unwanted attention. Yeah, it's doing well.


And it's a complicated thing because it's like you're told as a girl and a woman that you're supposed to want that and that it's a good thing that, like people finding you attractive are like people thinking you're sexy or people thinking you're beautiful or precocious, like these words that we use around young girls in particular.


And then it's complicated because it doesn't make you necessarily always feel good or old, always feel safe, and then it hinders your just like natural development of what you might be like because you're creating a self defensively. I'm like, I'll be the person that is going to be like immune to any weirdness, you know? And it works out luckily. I mean, I was safe. Yeah.


I mean, your Internet sucks, but other than that, I mean, everything seems to have worked out.


But, you know, what's funny is you almost have the opposite trajectory of a Disney star. So you see so often like these. Kids who get really popular aren't Disney, they actually want to claim their sexuality in a really big way because they were not allowed to be sexual. And so yours is like the complete opposite, where you were like kind of plain sexy and then you went the other way.


It's really fascinating. It's totally true. And it's so weird because it's like I was auditioning for all that stuff, too, and I never got it as a kid.


Like, I always got like the dark black kind of sexy, like young girl, femme fatale at 14, I feel like, you know, serial commercial and maybe, like, no way. Like, I was just not cute. Chipper.


She needs to be in the anti-drug commercial. Let's get her in the next room. Yeah, exactly. One thing I think of immediately, as we just interviewed Halsy and she kind of talked about having been 17, having a twenty four year old boyfriend at the time, thinking it was one thing now getting older and looking back and going, oh, and then re-evaluating the whole experience with a different set of eyes. And so I imagine the real time experience of it is one thing.


And then probably in reflection also as you learn about the many layers of misogyny and all these different things, like do you ever stop evaluating it or is it ongoing?


Yeah, I think it's definitely interesting.


I mean, I'm not someone who's, like, sitting around thinking about your career that much or. Yeah. Or the stuff I've been in. I think that's also a luxury because it wasn't particularly traumatic. You know, like, I was lucky that, like I mean, there's hundreds of little things that I think any woman on Earth in any place has experienced, but nothing massive that I've been ruminating on. I think it definitely makes you aware.


You know, I think all of us think about like, what are the things that have kept me from being free.


Yeah. Just authentically who you were born to be. Right. Right. And like, what are the things inside of me and what are the things that other people have put on me that have stopped me or blocked me in any way from being completely free? And so I think in that way, in the way that we're all trying to like, look for being are like full open real selves, just as a public person at a young age and then as a public female at a young age in my attempts to like, build these fortresses that kept me safe, that succeeded in keeping me safe.


It didn't allow the full expression of who I was at that time, or certainly not artistically. Like I started choosing roles where I was like, I want kids.


I want, you know, like when I was in my teens, I was like, I don't want to have any love scenes or make out scenes or, you know, I would start choosing parts that were less sexy because it made me worried about your safety, the way I was perceived and how safe I felt.




And even though I'm so sorry. Do you want to know? I just said, wow, OK, I'm like full throttle and I don't want to know that. I think that's really profound.


And I don't think you're sitting around thinking about your career. But what I imagine you do do daily, as I do, we now have children. So there's two things A you start thinking about.


So if my child wanted to do this thing, you know, you've had the personal experience that's going to inform it in some way and then even more so, like you're passing on stuff. Right? I'm just so grateful I don't have boys because I grew up terrified I'd be seen as weak. And I've done everything possible to be seen as strong and it's cliche and embarrassing. And so I would have to decide, like, I don't want to pass all this on to my son.


And so in that way, I guess I wonder if you evaluate, like, oh, no, we're evolving. I have a daughter, I'm going to pass on something. What parts do I want to keep and what do I want to say? This was bonkers.


Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I have a boy and a girl, and so it's been really interesting to get to think about each of them. And also, it was kind of a revelation to me what you're talking about, about how these constructs of what people are supposed to do by their gender is so limiting for men, because we talk about it for women all the time about like the things that women are not able to do or not able to express are not able to achieve because of these social prejudices.


But then to understand that men are so constrained by the things they're allowed to like, the things that are allowed to be interested in, the emotions they're allowed to feel. I mean, I know my husband's French.


And he said when he moved to the US, he was like, guys won't talk to me about theater or music or art. All his close friends were gay man, because he was like straight men in America aren't allowed to have interests in the arts. It's limiting like, oh, are you only allowed to be into, like, cars and. Motorcycles are that's all I'm into to I'm not paying the price of the culture I grew up in. All I care about is things you put gasoline in and I don't want the earth to burn up.


But the one thing I like, I can't even ethically enjoy anymore.


But it's like, of course, all the creative energy, the emotional energy is only allowed to be channeled into certain interests and certain things to talk about. So with both of them, I'm trying to be conscious of supporting what they're into genuinely and exposing them to the same things, which is hard because you tend to be like, oh, boy, soccer girl ballet, you know, and this stuff. But to expose them to the same kinds of things, see what they take to encourage that.


It's shocking how much stuff just comes from outside of the household that is very gendered and like, you know.


Oh, yeah. But I think that was also one of the reasons I wanted to write the book because I wanted to create characters that are representative of the world, that you just want to get into their minds and hearts and empathize with them, because that's what I'm constantly trying to do with my son. Be like, how does she feel? How do you think she's feeling when someone says that to her? How do you think he feel? Because I don't think boys are practicing bad enough.


And girls for my daughter, I want her to think, how do you feel?


Because I think girls, we over practice like knowing how everyone else thinks about us and feels about us like, are we pretty enough? Are we smart enough? Are we nice enough to be kind enough, very sweet enough or be cute enough. And then we're not like, what do I want, what do I need as much. And I think that has a lot to do with not thinking about the inner lives of female characters from an early age.


When you see how many books and movies and TV shows for kids are primarily male characters, we're not having kids practice thinking about the female mind and heart early enough for both boys and girls. Oh, yeah.


So did you find yourself as we did? You're reading your kids all these classics. And for us, by the way, this caused a whole shitstorm. So criticism was critical of Sleeping Beauty. And then Ben Shapiro said, we want to get rid of all classics, which, by the way, no, we love the books. But at the end of them, we say to our daughters, it's kind of weird. This girl was passed out and the dude kissed her.


Right. That's a little curious.


You know, illegal. Yeah, minimally illegal. So we still read them, but they're launching off points for us to then go like, well, that's kind of weird. Isn't all she desired was to be the husband of this prince or, you know, we just get into it. So I have to imagine you were having that same experience where it's like, OK, here are the classics. And boy, what a bit of culture I'm passing on.


Oh, definitely. Also, so many pronoun changes to make sure that all the characters, especially like the animal kingdom, so many of these books about animals and then all the characters are male. And I notice myself even like we'd go to the park and I'd be like, oh, look at that dog.


Isn't he cute? Like, my default was always to go to a he with an animal, which is weird and not accurate. So I started changing the pronouns, reading my kids those books just to make it reflect the world, just to experiment on them.


Exactly. And then I was like, this should just exist because it's silly to read these books. And sometimes you get tired, you forget to change the pronouns or they learn to read and then they're reading themselves.


The books and the books are all he. And so I was like, this should just happen.


Well, that's what I notice about your version of the tortoise and the hare.


So you correct me if I'm wrong, but the conventional story is probably supposed to be teaching humility and focus maybe. Is that a good assessment?


I think I think the messages. Yeah, OK, I think so. Perseverance, perseverance and yours.


The tortoise is female in the hair is male. And so there's some other layers going on here, too, because the hare is trying to embarrass the tortoise by insinuating that she'll cry and that she's weak. And yet the tortoise plods ahead. Right. And stays focused. And by the way, as an anthropology major, you know, hunting and gathering societies, the women, we're just so much more durable. That's just a fact. Women had a child or two in their person while they were gathering.


They survived famine better. They're just more resilient and they're stronger. So the irony that the hair, of course, thinks that the tortoise is weak and will cry and all these things, I was thinking, oh, there's definitely also a male female layer going on here in a little iconoclasm of those gender stereotypes.


That one.


Absolutely. I definitely tried to not make it like males are the like bad characters. Females are the good characters, because I think that the more range of possibility we allow females to have as humans and as personalities, the more we see females as people. First and then judge them by their characteristics or actions. So, for example, in the three little pigs, the wolf is female. I think the great big quote about if you put a woman on a pedestal, it's just another kind of cage.


And it's true.


Like when people say like, oh, women are better leaders or better. And you're like, not necessarily. No, they're just humans.


They're just humans capable of being good or bad. And the righteous are an unjust. And, you know, we're human. And if you make any kind of stereotype about any group of people, it's dehumanizing, even if it's positive, even if it's like masquerading as a compliment.


And so in the tortoise and the hare, there are some typical kind of like male female gender dynamics. But I tried to make other places where you don't see women as like the hero of the story necessary.


Well, let me say it's not preachy at all. Thank you. It's not preachy at all. And by the way, I'm probably projecting a lot of things from like a whole anthro point of view. But men do do these flashy things, like we can pick up a tremendous amount of weight. It's great.


Probably Russell, a chimp better than you can, but giving birth, having a period every month, all these longer, excruciating endurance driven like it's not as flashy, but it requires so much strength.


Someone told me the leg bathroom theory of gender equality, which is like there's always a long line in the women's bathrooms and the men's never. And so, like, if you want to make equality in, like a theatre or something, you should probably make ten times the number of bathrooms for women than for men. Like there are differences that you need to attend to.


Sure, you guys have to undress and yeah, all that stuff xactly we have to do a whole situation, but I think that there are differences we can address. We're not trying to say like, oh yeah, everyone is the same.


That's kind of like saying I don't see race. It's like OK, well then there's a weird side of that too. Right, exactly.


Just trying jag left. Well that was a little weird then we recorrect and hopefully the long arc is moving in the right direction.


Yes. And hopefully I think we can believe that people are trying their best to make things better.


Yeah. You know, a lot of people. Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.


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Now, when you read this book that you wrote to your own children, did you first admit you had written it or did you give them a blind taste test?


Oh, I told them I wrote it. Like this test would be way too dangerous, very high risk.


But if the compliment was there, you'd be like, well, I earn that one. That's true. No, but I did warn them and I tested it on them a lot. So they've heard many iterations.


So here's some clues. We got a we're going to ultimately offer you a role in the podcast, which is.


Thank you, tech advisor. No, no, no, absolutely not. You'll have nothing to do with anything technical.


But as an art guy or an alien argle, you seem to be connecting with people right before we get hip to them. OK, I'm going to give you a couple of examples of things.


The first time we interviewed Yuval Harari, he was coming from your house and we were like, oh, how does bitch get ahead of us?


Also got very lost. And you look 20 feet away. Yeah, yeah. That was really funny.


I took 30 minutes to go. Oh, I love Yuval and his partner are so wonderful and he is so brilliant and changes my mind and thinking about everything all the time. I would agree.


I don't think I have had such a paradigm shift since leaving college twenty years ago or whatever. It's been the whole explanation of Buddhism, which I don't think I ever really understood and craving. I'm like, oh yeah, that's me. My suffering is all just I'm craving from a different mental state that I don't have and. Oh yeah, that's right. And then even the explanation of capitalism versus communism and the story, I mean, it's all it's so good, so good.


I mean, his recent op ed in the Times about conspiracy theories was so wonderful to.


Oh, I haven't I haven't read that. It's great. It's just the basic point is, even if someone wanted to control the world, you couldn't like human behavior, over seven billion people is completely unpredictable. And it's not possible to manipulate what my other thing is.


Most criminals get caught because they go to a bar and they brag to a stranger, not even like their best friend. People love telling other people the shit they do right. I find it impossible to believe anyone can keep a secret on these the scale that's part of it.


It's just like this would not work with human behavior if this were true, if there were people trying to do this like it would not succeed because human behavior is much too unpredictable. Yes.


OK, so then the next person was Jonathan Safran Foer.


Foer Yeah. So he came over, we chatted with him. We kind of fell in love with him. Then we found out you have had this friendship with him and blah, blah, blah. So here's my question. What are the logistics of so you read something. Let's say you read sapiens and you go, I'm getting involved with this person like, oh, how does it work?


Uvo, I think maybe I had mentioned that I liked him in an article or something. Then he asked me to moderate a conversation that he was doing in London randomly. And I was like, what an opportunity. And that was that Jonathan. I read his book when I was in college and then went to go hear a reading of his and met him after the reading. And I was just like fanning out on him. And then we stayed friends since then, I guess, like twenty years.


And yeah, he's written more books and gotten very deep into animal protection, has become kind of this deep environmentalist. So it's been really interesting to know him for a while.


If I fall in love with something and I think for a second I have like access, I will try my hardest to be a part of the person's life.


Well, isn't that kind of the biggest privilege? Yeah. Yeah. Being a public person, you do have this ability to connect with people you admire or learn from and get to actually meet them sometimes. So I definitely use that. It's like probably the thing I use most out of my privileges, like getting to connect with those people. It's so exciting that in, like, restaurant reservations. That's the other thing I really take advantage of.


One thing I've been I've come to really be grateful for is how I get treated at the hospital because I'm there kind of off. And so that to me is like, oh, everything's worth it because I need that.


Oh, my God. For you, you're there often. I want to psychoanalyze you, though, for a second. Do it. OK? I don't believe in any of it. So. OK, right.


OK, so how do I say this? So I have all this baggage. So I was dyslexic. I was in learning disabled classes. What? I have a big chip on my shoulder about being smart, but a lot of this is like identity and what I want to be seen as versus what I am being seen as. So I play stupid people in movies and I'm a comedian. Right? So I really in a gross, egotistical way, I do search out the praise of like intellectuals and people I admire and I wonder if any are very smart.


Oh, thank you. You're one of the people I'd want to hear that from.


I'm not an intellectual, but I think you're very smart.


But I wonder because I want to tie this back to Harvard, like your unnice like. Rocket ship to be in any movie you want to be in and you decide, I'm going to take a break and part of it you already addressed, which is I want to be seen as serious and for the many reasons there. But do you also have like a romantic identity? Is there things that you've been like, I want to be this person and I want to be seen this way?


And is Halvard part of that and is like approval from these people? We admire part of it, definitely.


I mean, I think I have a similar chip on my shoulder about like being seen as smart because, you know, I come from like a very academic family, like my dad's a doctor. My grandfather had four PhDs and was a professor. And it was kind of embarrassing to be an actress. Like, my dad took me aside when I was like twenty to like I'd already done all the Star Wars and was like, so what about grad school?


Like, this was cute, but like, you know, like let's do something meaningful and serious with your life.


And when I went to Harvard, I definitely was like, oh, this is where I change careers. And it kind of was the moment where I had to come to terms with this is what I love. I do find meaning in it. I find meaning and joy. And I also find meaning and telling stories that change the way people go into the world and hopefully empathize with people the way that they empathize with characters on screen. Because, you know, when you're crying for a stranger and their life or laughing with them because of their joy or happiness, that's practicing empathy and feels like storytelling has that purpose.


And that was kind of the time when I had to admit that to myself, that I did not enjoy premed. I'm not that excited about organic chemistry.


Yeah. I was like, you know, in my time, guys, like, I get it. But like, it's not my passion. You know, this is not going to light me up for the next ten decades, hopefully. So, yeah, that was important to me. But definitely I think most kids that like go to Harvard care about saying that they went to Harvard like but it's like partly like a brand's association.


Well, we talk about this a lot on here. I have this friend, Christine from Michigan. She went to Harvard Law. She did great. I've been with her when people said where you go to law school and she said Harvard.


And they go, oh, it's the whole thing. It's so crazy. The reaction. It triggers every insecurity everyone has. So people say, I went to school in Boston, but I guess you can't really do that. Everyone knows you went to Harvard.


Yeah, it's definitely like a false modesty or something. Like people know. Then what are you trying to, like, pretend you're humble or.


Yeah, I don't know.


Is it really offensive to be like I went to the school, I went to like. I don't think so.


Did you have fun there? I did. I did. The best part of it for me was my group of friends that I made who are still like my closest friends today and doing interesting things and engaged. And I don't know if they're just good people and I love them.


Do I remember correctly that you lived in the dorm? Yeah. And so what went into that? Do you have to live in the dorm?


Pretty much everybody does, except for like a few rich kids. You know, Jared Kushner.


Oh, he didn't live in the dorm.


I mean, I think freshman year everyone did, including him. And then, you know, the like super wealthy kids move off campus. Yeah. Did you feel self-conscious being there?


I didn't much. You know, Facebook started when I was a senior at school.


Zuckerberg was like a freshman when I was a senior, I think. And it first started on campus. So like there was no social media, there were no camera phones.


No one was like, oh, right.


You know, one was like snapping pictures of me when I didn't notice, like, I was able to kind of have a normal experience, like kids were aware of me and but like, you know, there were like Olympic athletes and like the best pianist in the world and like the best mathematician in the country. And like, you know, there were all these kinds of people around. So I don't know. I think if anything, they're like, oh, dumb actress like.


Well, see, that would have been my big fear. I walked around with, like, oh, they all think I don't belong here.


Yeah, it was scary. Like any time I talked in class I would get like shaky voice, like everyone's going to think I'm so stupid. But that was part of, like, growing, though, because, you know, you have one professor who you really admire, who takes you seriously and thinks you have a good idea and you start getting confidence, you know, that your opinion or idea might be of value.


Yeah, OK. One of the things on the outside looking at your career, it seems to me that you've had a confidence to step out of it and back into it and out of it and back into it. I am curious, was it that was it just a confidence or have you had the same panic as everyone else? Did you think like. If I take a couple of years, have a kid, it's going to change, I mean, it's proven to not ever have affected you negatively, but I think that requires a ton of conviction.


I mean, I've definitely had moments of panic and moments of feeling like, oh, my God, I haven't done anything or I don't have interesting opportunities or, you know, I think all of us do. But the lucky thing is that it's been so long. I've had twenty five years. So I know how to comfort myself of being like there are ways it can seem slow and then it'll be more and then take it easy.


Do your thing, focus on your page. You have your own path and like this is it. And also knowing how important like life is, because any time I see someone who's like working non-stop, I'm like, when do they have time to, like, be with the people they care about? Because work is very all consuming, you know, like when I'm shooting, I don't do anything else. Right.


So it's pretty awesome to have time to be with friends and pursue interests like you're talking about, like calling up someone I admire and having a conversation with them or, you know, spending time with my family, of course.


Do you have the thing that my wife has to battle, which is if you're working, you feel guilty and if you're not working, you feel guilty. Like if you're not working, you have this guilt of like, oh, because I'm a woman, I, you know, like I just feel like you guys are damned if you do. Damned if you don't. Oh, definitely. I think every working mothers burden is that you're either feeling like you're not doing enough for yourself or like your own empowerment, or you're like not being there enough for your kids or whatever.


There's just a lot of expectations we put on ourselves and that society doesn't help out a lot with. Yeah.


All right. Can I ask you selfishly about one movie? Yes. Well, first of all, you were the Daughter and Heat, which is great. What does he say?


Al Pacino, he says, oh, he says something about you. I used to do it all the time.


Well, he says I got four dead bodies on Venice Boulevard dying. Sorry of the goddamn chicken's cold.


But he says something great about that I used to imitate and I can't remember was so good closer.


I was so mesmerized by closer. It's such a special movie. And again, back to like your ebb and flow of Oh, I was portrayed as sexy, I'm going to be serious. That to me almost feels like you're going like, OK, I'm going to do something that's now me without any of the baggage of that stuff.


Absolutely. That was really definitely a point where I felt safe, like I was an adult. I had just finished college. I like felt confident in myself and like my ability to, like, take care of myself. And then I was also with a director that was like my best friend. Like Michaels was just like the greatest friend.


And I trusted him completely. He showed me everything, anything I wasn't comfortable with.


He caught like there's stuff that I was like, I don't know, I shot it. Yeah. I was like and he just took it out without trying to pressure me or bite me or convince me or anything. Like, I was just completely respectful. And everyone I worked with, like Jude and Julia and Clive, we were all such a team and like super comfortable and respectful.


And it's like, oh, you can do that and fully express and fully reveal both physically and emotionally when you feel safe, right?


Yeah. Yeah. You pray that, like, you can trust the director enough to go ultimately too far. You want to feel safe to go too far so that they can protect you.


And Zachery. Yeah. How great that he never put up a fight about that.


So DAX said that you were his favorite and you were in his toolbox, but you were also my favorite tool box. But I was like a little kid who wanted to be an actor. You were the person.


Thank you. You are smart. You went to Harvard and you're beautiful and you're so talented. So I wanted to be you. And then in my senior year of college, we had to do like, you know, in theater we had to do like an independent project or whatever. And so me and my best friend, we did closer. No.


Yeah, we went on the hope.


It was like so much more. Most people did like a monologue and we were like, no, we're doing a full play.


The two just getting into men, OK? And two men. Yeah. And you play Natalie.


Yeah, of course. Yeah.


It's such amazing writing. Oh my gosh. Patrick Marbury's dialogue is so, so beautiful.


Everyone was great in that.


But I have to say, Clive Owen, for me in that movie, he is so good. He's so good.


I getting chills right now. Just think. About it so good, yes, so when you're opposite of someone like that that's got that skill set or is in the perfect movie with the perfect everything, whatever, do you feel like you just get sucked into the force, feel like you have to do nothing but react?


Oh, definitely.


I mean, he is an incredible example of someone who's just, like, so strong it just ups your own game. And yeah, the spontaneity, the ability to, like, react in the moment to play. I mean, that's like the most fun. That's like the most joyful when you can just play when you have the broom and the like, partnership with someone who's like willing to just mess around because that's fun. The worst is if someone's like you have to do it this way and it's like very specific.


But when there's room to play and mess around and do new things to each other that like surprise and change the scene and interesting ways, I mean, everyone on that movie was like that. But yeah, he's extraordinary. Yeah.


He's just like a volcano in that movie. There's something really special about he's always good. But that thing was like the perfect suit for him or something.


Yeah. And there's a line that Patrick wrote in it that I always think about because there's a thing where, like, you know, when you say and paraphrasing, of course, because I don't remember exactly, but it's like you say you don't have a choice in relationships. Like, I couldn't help it. I fell in love or whatever. But there's always a moment. There's always a moment when you make the choice. And it's true. It's like take a little responsibility for it.


That's like myth of like I fell into this thing. I couldn't help myself. It's like not taking responsibility for what your actions are in a relationship.


Yeah, I was happy too. But now I'm sad. I'm sad now because we're older. But I was happy at the time. You didn't really have any, like, big public. You didn't date your co-stars or if you did, you kept it really secret and I never knew about it. Was that a choice or just in time out ever?


I don't know that it was a choice. I mean, I dated some people briefly, not in any serious way. And like, yeah, you quickly learn that's a bad idea, I think.


Well, some people do. Others, though, it's just not so helpful.


I mean, some people are able to do it. But I don't know, it's kind of tricky when you're young and working together. Yeah, OK.


My last question, of course, I want everyone to buy Natalie Portman's fables. I own it. I've read it to my children. I love it. Thank you. Again, what I really love is that you have all these other interests. If all you thought about is acting, it would be justified because you're that good.


But no, you do all these other things.


And what was my last question? God damn it. Oh, no. Oh, schedule.


You know, let's let's pick this up next Wednesday. Oh, I have one salacious question isn't even salacious. I'm just really curious. All right. I was shocked to read this because I can't imagine a casting director going like we found the two girls.


So you and Britney Spears were both understudies in nineteen ninety two.


That's true.


It is, but not at the same time. So when Britney left this off Broadway show, which was called Ruthless, to be on the Mickey Mouse Club, I believe I took over for her.


I had the job after her. OK, so we met later and like, laughed about it.


Like we both had the same understudy role for Laura Bell Bundy, the star of the show, and was incredible.


But yes, we were not there at the same time. It's really fascinating to think like for whatever reason, at that moment in time, you two seem like, yeah, either one would be very similar.


And then you wonder, like if you go on Mickey Mouse and she goes into professional, I don't know. It's all very interesting.


It's like the parent trap or something like, yeah, we could just swap environments. What would we turn into.


Yeah. Or sliding doors or something. I just now remember when I was going to ask you so I love long way round, long way down and long way up. I doubt you've seen any of them but there is an MacGregor's motorcycle documentaries. Have you seen it.


Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. OK, so what I glean from that, especially the most recent one, they drive from the tip of South America up to L.A. and he goes to Machu Picchu, which he's been dreaming of going to for his whole life, and he goes there. And then I feel so bad for him because he becomes the attraction, like he's actually upstaging Machu Picchu. And then his entire day, of course, is taking pictures and he's very, very nice.


And so he just does it. You cannot help but be kind of heartbroken for him because he's dreamed of going here the whole time and then he just really wasn't allowed to experience it.


Oh, wow. And what becomes clear, because it's all these people, they don't speak English. They're probably not familiar with this or that. It's singularly Starwars like Star Wars fucked his life, I'm sure made his life and it fucked his life in so many ways, like he can't go to Machu Picchu. So I. Just wondered, did you feel this tidal shift of like, oh, I'm not going to the mall now or no, you know, I feel really lucky that I didn't.


I mean, certainly people recognize me, but I think it has to do with I'm really short and I'm like a small person and I can do pretty much anything. And no one pays attention to me because it's not like I don't naturally attract attention. Like, I think if you're like six foot tall and blonde and you walk into a room, everyone looks at you, and then they'll be like, oh, that's an actress, you know? But when you're like this kind of small brown hair Jewish girl, like you're kind of invisible.


And so, like, I feel like no one looks at me. It's allowed me to kind of do anything. Like I feel very lucky.


I've been to a lot of crowded places and nobody bothers me.


I kind of agree with you in that. Like, if Chris and I are together or even get separated at the airport. Right. I'll hear people say, oh, that girl looks like Kristen Bell.


And then they keep moving. But then they look at me. If they know me, they're like, oh, that's him again. All these stupid decisions I've made, I have tattoos, I'm too tall, my nose is crooked. All these things no one ever goes. He looks like them. They're like, that's him. But I hear often they think, oh, she looks like Kristen Bell.


That's the same. Like people always say, you look like, you know. Uh huh, oh.


Two days ago I had the mask on. I was at the gas station on the way home from the dunes. And the woman said, You look like Zach Shepard. And I go, you know, I look even more like DAX Shepard is great.


She was just making Zach Braff and Dick Shepard one person. I think she definitely now is someone who worked with Zach Braff. And he and I have talked about it extensively. Do you see the uncanny resemblance? Is it eerie?


No, I hadn't thought about it until you just said it. I don't think you really look alike. Very different coloring to start with, but. Well, I'm also in very weird lighting.


It's pitch black.


Anyways, point is, I had this idea for a movie for me and I ten years ago called Nature versus Nurture. And we're identical twins, but I'm raised by hillbillies in the South and he's raised by like Upper East Side Jewish parents. And that's how you explain the difference. But we're this exact same.


Other than that, I love that I would watch that movie. Please make that.


That was actually my last question. So and this is something I've been envious.


So many of my friends in L.A. are Jewish. I've been invited to Shabbat. I've been invited to say I'm an atheist. But if I had to pick the traditions of any religion, it would be Judaism. I love baby names and I think it's so cool that you would have to take a minute and remember someone who's died. So I'm curious as you pass this on to your kids and maybe this is none of my business, but how into the dad part of it are you and how into just the cultural heritage of the food or just the food?


Yeah, I mean, I think I'm careful about what are the things that are helpful and relevant and positive that I believe in. Like, the thing about Judaism that I love more than anything is that you're allowed to break any rule to save a human life. Oh, any of the Jewish laws that exist. Leave it if you're going to save someone or something like that. Something that I think is like foundational that you like just put life first. Yeah.


Is wonderful. Like nothing else.


You know, you can break Sabbath, you can eat, you know, unkosher or whatever rule if it's to save a life.


So I think that, like, that is a foundational role is incredible. Some other things are like hard to explain to your kids when they're like, how did God make all the people? Don't women make the babies?


No Adam's rib. Make the babies. Come on, guys, get rid of it.


You know, so some of the things you're just like, OK, well, it's a story. Someone wrote it and you know, the other things we need to take with a grain of salt. But I love the food. I love the family aspect.


I love the emphasis on education, on books like people of the book I think is wonderful and obviously perseverance through a lot of shit that, oh, yeah, there's a group that's going through more trials.


Yeah. I mean, I can't be the suffering Olympics, but it certainly is a good history to draw from in terms of like fighting against injustice for everybody and keeping strong through the obstacles that may present themselves. But yeah, I think religion with the modern lens. Uh huh.


And then as we go, because I would feel so unethical if we didn't do this. Hit me with a couple of your favorite aspects of law, Moses. We'll all go. We'll go in a circle.


Oh, no more Moses. OK, Laura Moses is our mutual friend for the lesson and she's going to edit this episode. Going to be first to hear it, yes, oh, good, oh, good, how many things I love about where is she? Is the person you want to talk to most when you are having a hard time? She is like the most caretaking like person ever. Like she's the first person to make sure everyone has a drink and everyone is fed well and very thoughtful, very thoughtful.


So just like at ease, a great sense of humor. So funny, so capable. Really loves cats. Oh, yeah.


I'd love to see even her love of cats kind of made me have a love of cats and I hate cats.


Yeah. I'm not a cat person but I've like reassessed cat people because she's so great. Yeah. That I'm like this has to be she's redefined. I've stopped making a lot of the cat lady jokes I used to make out of respect for her. But I also at the same time I applaud her boyfriend who we love as well, because he gave her a chance when her Instagram was almost exclusively pictures of the puzzles she was doing and her cats.


And that's good for him.


He had the best response ever. When you brought it up, you said I'd be scared away. And he said, you know, all the other girls I dated, all their pictures were of themselves. And I thought, oh, maybe this is something I need.


Contrary, I'm not so obsessed as selves more obsessed with their cats.


I got to say that I like her for her word of vileness. If that's a term.


Yes, we have a very shared love of crosswords and our very mutual dark association way.


Have you ever watched an episode of Game of Thrones with her?


No, I've actually never watched Game of Thrones. I'm ashamed to say. Oh, well, when you started, as you should, it's a fantastic program. Please do it with her because she's an encyclopedia of all the crazy names in different languages and she just can retain all that every crazy.


Every time you pause, you go, who's the I haven't seen this person for four seasons.


She's like that Stradivarius uncle precarious on the doorstep of ZABULON And you're like, how do you know that, Monica?


Do you wanna hit us with one or do we take them all?


Well, you took a lot of them, but I think I also really like her conviction.


Like she's not swayed, I don't think, by what the group thinks or the group is doing. Like she has her own point of view and she doesn't really have flomo. Like she's not worried about being late, like she's going to be a couple hours late. She's not like, well, I'm missing part of the party. Like, she's just like, fine, showing up, leaving when she wants. That's good.


Yeah. Oh, I have an important one. Oh, good, good, good, good, best teeth.


As I was like, who is your dentist? Because you know what you have the best teeth have really. No really really amazing. I mean not deep but no but real.


But let's be real. Exactly. We all are taking it all in with our eyes first. OK, this is my prediction. So the thing Monica's most proud of herself. If she had a list like her number one quality, it'd be that she does not succumb to peer pressure.


And I'm guessing you guys have that in common. Oh, no.


Oh, I mean, that's a really that's a really cool one.


And also a big compliment that you gave Laura, because you basically said the same thing.


And they know that's what made me think of it.


Actually, it's hard for me if everyone's like I really like this movie and I didn't like it. I wouldn't say it.


I think it's like really hard for me to say that I have a different opinion than anyone else.


You're low on the disagree ability aspect of the personality test. You're low. Yeah.


Like, I just want everyone to like me and agree on everything, but I'm working on it.


No, I think everyone likes you. So you really nailed it. You've achieved the goal.


I know, but it's a bad goal. I'm aware that it's a bad goal. Now I'm going to let you go.


But we see each other. We bump into each other. Was I taller than you were expecting or did you have no expectation?


I expected you to be tall and tall. All right. OK, great.


That's what we're ending on. No, I just she didn't say anything about me, so I was trying to dig. One day she noticed. Very smart. Do you remember that? I did.


I'll never forget it. Yeah, exactly.


Well, we adore you and I can't wait to bump into you again in real life is mutual. And people should read Natalie Portman's fables.


They're wonderful. You will not have to explain or make excuses afterwards your children for the questionable legality of some of the plot points. You're assured that, well, until maybe forty years from now, but currently there'll be no explanation required exactly up to date.


All right.


We'll have a wonderful time down under. And I hope you do end up going to the zoo, as I suggested, because you really love it.


That is on the schedule. Thank you so much for doing this. All right, by the way, the rest of your day, I guess. Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.


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And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soul mate Monica Padman. We just had a canine challenge still venting. Yeah, well, we love Frank, we love Frank frankness. He has his own song. What is it? Singing Franconia Doo doo doo doo doo.


Frank Cooney is Frank looniest doo doo doo doo doo. Wow. Just that Frank Junior's was brought to the new house by my family members.


That's right.


And when I left the house to go to record, I said, guys, make sure the doors are closed or Kooning's is going to get out and he's going to bark at people, maybe bite someone, and then we're all going to be in court or he'll get loose and get injured. Yeah, let's keep the door shut. That's what doors open. Open my door to the attic.


Old Kooning's is on the staircase. I know. I'm so happy he was yaoi. He will for his sake. He's lucky. Yeah, you discovered him because I'm sure the next stop was to bite somebody and then run out into the road.


So then we brought Comenius into the attic while we recorded with David Verrier.


And boy, he just went apeshit in here, right? Yeah. Chumping all around.


He's on your lap. He's on my lap. He's looking out all the windows looking for his lover. Christan squealing, barking. It was stressful.


It was worse to people to be stuck with a dog on mazurkas.


Osprey's, would you say it could have been worse if someone was afraid of him? At least we're not afraid of him. That's true. But we were pretty annoyed by him.


Our tolerance for our Conexant antics were all king also because there's too many chords like, yes, it's not a good space for a Kaini, for a crazy canine.


And also he kept walking over the records and all you do is put one of Appar on the red button and we're fucked. We got to start, you know, we got to start. I guess we're not that fucked, but in the moment it felt like we'd be totally fucked. Fucked. Yeah. Brokenness. You just fucked up.


Oh come on. Kinney's totally fucked up.


Yo, I'm trying to think if there's a comedian or if it's maybe Mike Judge who pointed out like certain surfer Brazil make fuck two syllables like I think it was Mike.


And I think he said he was at like the Malibu market and he overheard two guys talking to surf guys.


And this one guy was like, You remember Cheryl? Yeah.


Sparkie went over to her house and he fucked her and he said, no work.


Sparkie fucked Jennifer, no Sparky thought Carol Ann, this whole conversation was just about who fuck to.


And there's multiple syllables of funny.


Mark Kelly.


Kenny, is it totally. Oh, my God. Your face. I know. I got to make this girl's. It's possible to get that sound out. You can't make that sound without the worst look on your face.


Try it. That can't be done.


So you got to open your mouth and you got to fucking curb your fucking lips.


Oh, my goodness gracious. Well, that was a complaining section of fact check. Yeah.


We try to keep those to a minimum, but, you know, here we are. Yeah, I was just talking about this with my therapist.


Tell us, for lack of a better, more specific thing, guys, in general. Right. The very solution oriented and women like to vent. You know, they like to just talk about a problem. And then then they they all empathize with each other.


Whereas guys are just like, tell your boss about, you know, everything is like this, how you fix it. And we were kind of drilling down into it. And I said, you know, yeah, I guess if I found myself just venting, I think I would see it as whiny and weak. And then, of course, it's all roads lead back to this stupid, masculine identity of, like, weaknesses. The worst thing you could be.


It's not weak to complain at all.


But naming talking something through is what you're literally doing with your therapist.


Well, but it's with a solution in mind. Like he's I'm not I'm not paying him to just hear me go. Like, I don't like this person. Great. He's always telling my wife that I am selfish, you know, whatever.


He's going to go. Well, why does that bother you? You know, he's gonna try to get to what the problem is. Well, then we can give him some tools.


I think most of the times when girls or anyone is venting, you get to a solution in talking it out. You do talk about solutions, but you also talk about the feelings involved as well.


Yeah, like, I think a common thing. And in relationships that guys have to learn is sometimes your wife or your girlfriend just want you to listen and just go, oh, I'm sorry that happened.


They don't want you to tell them how to make that never happen again. They just want you to go like, I'm so sorry that happened. That must have sucked. Right. It's nice to be. It is.


I with sympathized with this. Yeah. But for. Whatever reason, guys generally don't talk to each other that way, because I had talked to Frank, I'm very stern with Frank. Yeah, very direct. But I've told you this before. I have no problem being very direct with boys, but I have a hard time being direct with women. And you don't like that.


Don't like that. You have that you have been like that in the past. Like I gave you the example of someone that washes my cars and and I just told him like, hey, for your business, just, you know, people want their problem to disappear. They don't want to know all the steps it took.


I just come out and tell him, like, hey, this would be good for your business. If it was a woman, I wouldn't do it. I just wouldn't have done it.


I'd be too worried I was going to make her upset or sad.


Yeah, that's dumb. I mean, because I would say that to a woman.


Right? Yeah, well. And a man and a man. Two things. You're very good at being direct. I always love when we're on the call business wise and we're like in development of something. Yeah. I'll be afraid to say something to somebody and you'll say it and I'm on. I'm really grateful that you're there.


Oh, thank you. Yeah. Maybe it's cause I do feel like I have some leeway. I'm small and so I'm not intimidating. So maybe I get away with being a little bit more direct while also I feel that, you know, it's not that I get away with it. I actually feel like I have to be I don't really have the option to not be direct, because if I'm not, you won't be dismissed.


Yeah, totally. But there are different parameters for all different groups. So like Jess, I've played basketball with Jess. I've told you this before, pick up public game at a public court. There's some rough dudes playing tattoos on their neck and Jess will get right in their face.


You go fucking s back, you see out. And he's shoving his hand in their face and he's screaming fucking foul. But he's doing it in such a high pitched voice. Yeah. That they don't know what to do with that. It had I done it, there'd be a fight. So like he has some interesting latitude. Sure.


I mean, I don't think that's that's just every person's energy can elicit something in someone that's not.


Yeah, yeah, yeah. But in our society culturally, it is frowned upon for guys to get physical with women. Yes. Thank God. Yeah. Yeah. Anyone can watch the Mike Tyson boxing match and it's palatable even if you're not into violence because we're Mike Tyson fighting a woman. It'd be very disturbing. That's just our culture. Yeah. Going try to ignore that. That's not our culture. Yeah. I'm appreciative that that's our culture. Yeah.


I mean, they're all made up rules. They're all cultural. They're like it's what Natalie was saying about her husband, who's French. When he came here, he was like, the only thing guys want to talk about our cars and motorcycles. I have no one to talk to art. And that's cultural for sure. In France, he has tons of friends who all talk about it. And then if he grew up here, he'd probably talk about cars, motorcycles.


If I grew up in France, I'd probably talk about whatever he talks. Exactly. Yeah.


So it's it's made. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's not who we are genetically, you know.


Oh no I'm not. I'm I hope you don't think I'm suggesting that. I'm just saying this talking about it.


I'm so exhausted. Yeah.


OK, this is our second this will be our second grievance section going tired. Oh my God. So watch this. Here's two options for me. Did you sleep enough last night? No. Oh, you should really go to sleep at the same time and try to get eight hours. OK, that was take one. That was like what I what I would do, whatever my first thought. Uh huh. OK, hit me again.


I'm tired. Oh, I'm sorry. I hate being tired, especially if you got to work. Thanks. Which did you prefer.


I prefer the first one. OK. Just to complicate things.


OK, fax facts sexualise. She said that Jerusalem is not internationally recognized as part of Israel, so she has her own pass. The passport, says Jaru.


Birth certificate, said Jerusalem passport. OK, agree to disagree.


It's definitely a passport because so in October the United States will allow Americans born in disputed Jerusalem to list Israel as their place of birth on passports and other documents, according to a new policy announced Thursday. So this is new. Oh, OK. I heard about it in October.


The move came a day after the United States amended science accord signed with Israel to apply to institutions in the occupied West Bank. The changes, enacted days before the US election appeared to be aimed at shoring up the support of evangelical Christians and other Israel backers because they didn't think we move our embassy to Jerusalem.


That was the big. Hot button topic President Donald Trump's administration broke with decades of U.S. policy by recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's capital in 2017 and later moving the embassy there from Tel Aviv, where most other countries maintain their missions.


Mm hmm. OK, so you said the California surgeon general said that a common thing to happen for some women who have experienced trauma is they sometimes gain weight so that they can seem invisible. It was actually Johann Hari who said that.


Well, there's OK, there's two things. One is she was referencing the San Diego study, Nadine Burke. About the long term health consequences of ACS and that work that she was citing. Was the same study that discovered that some of the women had gained weight intentionally so Yorn is also, I believe, referencing that study in San Diego.


Got it. But Yohann specifically talked about this, OK, on our show.


OK, I was unclear. I did not mean to say Nadene said it. I meant to say that the study Nadene got her data from is the one who discovered that.


OK, yeah. OK, sorry.


OK, I just, um. So I got to defend myself.


If people are interested in that episode, it's on Yohann. And also listen Canadian burkhart's we love. It's great you won't regret it.


You said she connects with people right before we get hip to them.


And you said an R guy and a inner artist and repertoire representative is responsible for finding promising new artists for a record label or music publisher to sign.


So, yeah, good reference. Yeah. You know, our friend Eric also uses this word super node. He says a super node is someone who is very connected to a lot of people.


So he used to be a lawyer and he said at his office he was a super node. He was connected so he could bring people in. He was valuable in the tipping point.


Gladwell called those people Connector's.


There was MAVEN's Connector's. Yeah, there's lots of words. Well, so a super node in peer to peer networking is any node that also serves as one of that networks relayer and proxy servers handling data flow and connections for other users. So he took like this tech term and applied it.


I don't know if Eric did that on his own, which. Good job, Eric. If you did.


Yeah, really good job. Makes me think of one of my favorite words I learned in L.A. geography, which is that we are a multi nodal city.


What does it mean? So most cities have a city center and all the traffic flows into that center in the morning and then out of it. But L.A. is multimodal. So there's all these pockets of industry. So the traffic just crisscrosses every which way. No actual center of Los Angeles. Interesting.


Yeah, there's like they're employing as many people in Santa Monica as they are in downtown L.A. in Century City.


And, you know, all these pockets. True. It doesn't all move in one direction, Justin. Multinomial so multinomial polycentric.


That was the other term for it. Oh, uh huh.


So what what's the word for if there is one unit centric and uni nodal. Nodal, just plain old nodal noodle noodle noodle.


OK, so I told you that I did the I mentioned it on this, that I did the play closer with Landro. Oh yes. Yes, yeah it was. Did you find a tape of it.


I would love it if you played it right now. I don't think there's a tape. I hope not because I. It was sexual.


Yeah. Do you remember any of the lyrics to it.


You mean dialogue. Yeah, we were talking in our terms.


Oh sure. Sure. No I don't. You don't. I actually because you know, she was trying to remember a quote and I was disappointed that I did didn't ring a bell.


Could have been a really cool moment between you guys.


I know. Yeah. Damn it. But I did look it up and the quote is the quote is that's the most stupid expression in the world. I fell in love as if you had no choice. There's a moment. There's always a moment I can do this. I can give in to this or I can resist it. I don't know when your moment was, but I bet there was one.


And Julia Roberts said that to Clive Owen. I'm not sure I feel like that's when I should know I'm embarrassed. That was a great scene in their kitchen. He was on and off the stairwell. He had come back from a trip. And I think it came out and it was he did he.


And we underplay. Julia Roberts by Dolly Parton. Was there any fighting over who would play?


Who know it was a media. No bad pick there? No.


About exactly like when you were when we were kids, we often played Dukes of Hazzard and everyone wanted to be Bo Duke. No one to be Luke Duke. Duke had blond hair. Yes.


God, what?


That's just what do you want me to say? I don't want you to say that you think I should feel bad that we all want to be Bo Duke.


Yeah, he was cuter because he had blonde hair. No, I'm just distinguishing which one it was.


OK, I'm just I know. I'm just telling you, this is part of the problem.


What is that? Everyone has decided blonde hair. People are better. You think society.


But sometimes the dark hair person's much better looking to give you an example of that, if you want, you don't have to. But you can't because he's been.


Excommunicating Weinstein's Mel Gibson, like you, he's not attractive. Oh, my God, when he was in Lethal Weapon, I said he doesn't he doesn't ring the bell now because of all the stuff you know about him. No. OK, now you can compartmentalize.


And before that, I was never, like, into him.


OK, I'm just saying society puts a premium on blonde hair, and I'd like to not have that be the case.


No, no. Bodek was taller and cuter and had nicer buns and seemed to be a better car driver. And the distinguishing thing to let you know who he was is he had blonde hair.


Oh. I don't know any of them, like, I don't can't picture either Bo or Luke now, OK, or they brothers or cousins, they were cousins. OK, yeah, kissing cousins. They were kissing cousins. They weren't kissing cousins. But Daisy Duke was their cousin as well.


All three of them were somehow cousins. OK. And I was always confused if they were attracted to this thing. A lot of people were.


Yeah. Yeah. She had brown hair.


She did. Yeah. Well in the newer one, Jessica Simpson played her and she has blonde hair.


So this is all very confusing, definitely in the original Daisy Dukes brown hair. And she's a fox or was a fox in that show when I was nine.


You'll have to watch and see if it holds up. I have, yeah, yeah, does it? Well, of course, it doesn't hold up.


I could show 70 percent of the episodes with them peeling out in the general.


So I just. I know. I know that's problematic. It's a different era.


Listen, they called the card code generally and it had a Confederate flag on them.


Oh, yo, yo. They were in Hazard, Kentucky. Dukes of Hazzard definitely does not hold up your right.


Well, yes, certainly in that way. But most of the show was car chases. That was the predominant.


And you love it. I love car chases. I wonder what the equivalent is of you watching a car chase is like me watching a mob scene.


I meet cute in a rom com that your favorite part of a rom com when they meet these spills, don't let each other know what's the favorite part.


This isn't rom com, but like in like good will hunting when they're on that.


Well, obviously that's my favorite crime.


But when they're at the hot dog stand and they they do kiss for the first time and they're flirting.


Yeah, I guess that is my favorite.


The flirting, the first kiss is always a really exciting moment rom com. I pushed really hard on parenthood. Minka Kelly and I had our scene. It started with us blowing into frame. We were already like mid party and then went under the bed and I, I said, we're denying this first, that moment where like you want them to kiss so bad you don't.


But it's inevitable you don't.


Kristen wanted us to kiss because the flirting in the scene was such and I mean, you guys had so much chemistry history.


Yeah. But really you had chemistry in the scene before in the scene at the restaurant.


Well, there's a scene where I think we're getting into I just remember it was on a street by a car.


And I want to say we did end up kissing there. But I almost think maybe because I pushed for I was like, what? Because the others see the scene. I knew that was coming.


I felt like you were getting robbed of that moment. Right. Because I personally, as a viewer, cherish that moment.


We're like they're getting closer. Are they gonna? Are they gonna?


And I remember when we were filming it, stretching it out to what I thought was a preposterous amount of time.


Yeah. And I think it's one of the better scenes I ever had of that nature because that made it grueling.


Lelong everything you have with the like, let's just we should just kiss just in case you want. They might eat it. They might make sure we get it just in case.


But Chris and I have both had that moment respectively, where we're watching the show and I want the guy to kiss her so bad cheating.


Yeah, but Cheaney and Elenor were meant to be together, of course, but. Yeah, but Minka Kelly, that was not a good situation. Krosby was cheating.


Well, they had Jasmyn, they had broken up that morning. He was a little quick.


They were in a bad situation, very bad situation. But look, I'm not going to defend Crosby Braverman. That's not what I'm here to do. I'm just trying to say that if I'm going to be in a kissing scene, I would like it to be the best version possible. And what I like the most is that terrible, agonizing sense of whether or not they're going to kiss or not.


That is true. That is true. But you guys also had it in a scene before when you were at a restaurant having margaritas.


Oh, my goodness. I don't even remember that. It was like the groundwork for the flirting.


OK, I think it was that cos I've never seen Casa de Vega or something that that that Mexican restaurant. Right. By the Hansons.


Oh it is. Well they didn't talk about where it was and if it was by the Hansons.


Well I guess I remember in real life shooting a scene at that restaurant with her and her saying she goes there a lot and that they make good margaritas. And then I don't know if I knew her well enough yet where I would all of a sudden I was like, oh, good. I'm going to say I can't drink margaritas. I remember having that thing you did.


Oh, by the way, I don't drink margaritas like I had to like, oh, here's the moment.


I tell you I'm so because she was like giving you advice like these to come here. They have great margarita.


Yeah. Yeah. And then I was like, I don't drink margaritas. And then I was thinking like, well all right, well now I'm a nerd.


Oh no, I don't want you to have to feel like you don't. You're a nerd if you say that. I think it's cool. OK, thank you.


Generally I don't. I just think she was a girl. I'm sure that's part of it. I'm sure that's part of it. But I just think also enough maybe time had gone by where I maybe should have told her.


I don't know. I understand.


I am saying that I was just like, oh, I've known this person long enough that I guess they should have known that are now I don't know. It's just a moment. You tell someone you're sober sometimes. Yeah, it's awkward.


I understand it. I could see that being a hard thing. Yeah.


So dongle. She had a dongle, a doll, that's what fixed her Internet, a dongle is a small USPI device that allows you to access the Internet.


Oh, it can also be referred to as a wi fi dongle, USB modem, Internet stick, USB network adapter or USB mobile. Broadband stick dongles are popular because they offer greater flexibility than fixed line connections and can be used on the go.


Oh dongle. Oh.


The article that you've all wrote for the New York Times about conspiracy theories is called When the World Seems Like One Big Conspiracy. Understanding the structure of global cabal theories can shed light on their allure and their inherent falsehood.


Hmm. We got to read that. We do.


Is there any way for you to send that to me right now? Are you, like, looking at the link?


I'm not. OK, you're going to have to do what everyone else is going to do and type it in. Right.


You have to do what everyone else is going to have to do, which is text you in three hours for the name of that article.


Again, we've talked about this a little bit before, but we will touch on it again that you said NATALICIO on the disagree ability index, part of the personality test. So just to remind people, that's the big five personality test. Studies have showed it effectively predicts behavior and the test is often used in academic, psychological personality research. The traits are openness to experience, conscientiousness, extraversion, agreeableness and neuroticism.


We should have someone give us a test on there.


Yeah, I would love that people who score higher on conscientiousness tend to work harder, for example, while more neurotic personalities are more prone to anxiety and depression.


Mm hmm. Interesting. Well, I'm highly disagreeable. I know that. Yeah. So are you. Yeah. Yeah. And to open to new experiences pathologically.


Oh, that's true. That is true.


I wonder if we could take a quick. Let me just see. OK, look, there's no way it's OK. But let's see. I'm going to try to test you. OK.


OK, no let me charge you. You got to do the. OK, here we go.


I am the life of the party, disagree, neutral, agree on the life of the party, disagree, and I feel little concern for others.


I feel little concern. I disagree.


I am always prepared. Agree. Ms. I get stressed out easily, agree, I tell me if you think any of these are not right, I will.


You know I will, OK, because you're disagreeable. That's right. I have a rich vocabulary.


You can be disagreeing, neutral. Agree. I agree. OK. I don't talk a lot, disagree here, you fucking talk for a living. I am interested in people agree. Neutral, neutral, yeah, neutral. No, I am very interested in people, but more like intellectually and behaviorally not. What do you think it's asking?


I think you're very interested in the people you're interested in.


I don't think you're broadly interested in everyone, but I'm very interested in the way humans behave. Yeah, that's too broad. This is people. Right?


OK, so we're going to neutral, OK, I guess with my big vocabulary that got in the way there. Yeah. I leave my belongings around.


I answer that for you.


I am relaxed most of the time. I disagree.


OK, I have difficulty understanding abstract ideas disagree.


It'd be fun for us to fill this out for each other.


Yeah, I feel comfortable around people. Agree? Do you think so? Maybe I'm neutral, neutral? I'd say neutral. It's also what's changed. Exactly.


These are always hard to answer because I insult people. That's a weird question because intentional. Yeah, exactly, because I certainly insult people, but it's I don't think maybe I should say neutrally intentional.


Okay, we'll go neutral. I pay attention to details.


Oh, this is tricky for me because I'm not observant with, like, the world, but I'm a but I am very detail oriented and studying like, yeah, some of these are really vague.


I'm going to say I do pay attention to detail.


Yeah. I worry about things. Agree. You know, some of these I shouldn't even ask.


I have a vivid imagination.


Agree. Yes. Yes. Camping trips were Ben Mantlo. I keep in the background.


I keep in the background. Oh. Like I disagree.


I sympathize with others feelings neutral. I make a mess of things.


Do you know if we're just talking about your apartment? Say, oh, are they talking about that or do they mean situationally? I would. I thought they meant situationally.


Hmm. Again, this is very upsetting. I make a mess of things. I mean, I'm messy, but not should say I'm messy.


I think I should say I complicate relationships or something.


I guess I should say neutral or maybe I should say agreed, what would you like to say? I guess say agree. OK, I seldom feel blue disagree. I am not interested in abstract ideas, disagree. I start conversations, agree. I am not interested in other people's problems.


I am not interested. I disagree. I'm interested.


I get chores done right away. Disagree. I am easily disturbed. Agree. Right. Yeah.


You're not allowed to get disturbed about me. I have excellent ideas.


I'm hitting the button. OK, next one I have, I have little to say.


Disagree you know I want to. I have a soft heart, agree? Hmm. Is that wrong? No, that's right.


OK, I often forget to put things back in their proper place. I agree.


I get upset easily. Agree. I do not have a good imagination to disagree.


Sometimes these are like not not there yet.


I talk to a lot of different people at parties. Huh. Neutral, hmm, I think I'd give myself neutral on that as well. I'm not really interested in others. There's some kind of trick there is asking.


Yeah, yeah, there's a cruel trick going on that we don't understand. Wait a minute.


I am not really interested in others disagree. Yeah. One of the conclusions might be like your inconsistent as a person.


I like order agree. I change my mood a lot.


I agree. Yeah. Really. Yeah. I could understand things.


Agree. Yeah. I don't like to draw attention to myself. These are two different like socially maybe.


But as a performer, yes.


I take time out for others. Agree. I shirk my duties, disagree. I have frequent mood swings.


I guess I agree.


I use difficult words. Difficult.


Yeah. This is part of the trick with the high vocabulary.


Difficult words. I don't think so.


Disagree even though I said agree to my vocabulary. OK, you know, I think that's part of the trick. I think I don't mind being the center of attention.


Disagree. No, yeah, disagree. I don't like being the center of attention, so I'm going to disagree.


I feel other's emotions agree. I follow a schedule, agree.


I get irritated easily, agree somewhat. Well, what if it said I roll my eyes at twice a day? It's a tick.


I spend time reflecting on things. I agree. I am quiet around strangers, neutral, OK?


I make people feel at ease. Neutral.


Or do you disagree? I think you do, and I don't think you're afraid to make people uncomfortable. So I think because that goes into the great ability thing, right?


Yeah. If you have an opinion and it's going to make someone uncomfortable, you're not going to hold back.


That's true. But if, like, there's someone new, I think I'm good at making them feel like I think I'm approachable.


Yeah, I think that's why it's neutral. It's like in the middle I am exacting in my work. Agree. I often feel blue. Agree I am full of ideas.


Agree. OK, ok. We have a graph.




Oh well just happened. Oh my God. What happened. Hold on. OK, here we go. You're still going to Sipos. I am. I am. I am.


OK, no one factor. Extraversion. You're a sixty seven.


Oh. Emotional stability, oh, no, stop. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, it is a very comical two percent one.


No, wait, I'm sorry, right? Please don't get mad at me.


We just all I did is ask you some questions like your emotions are all over the map right now in response to this agreeableness. Seventy one. Yes. I wouldn't have thought that conscientiousness. Fifty two. Oh, intellect. Imagination, 96.


Oh, shit, shit. Girl one person.


Oh boy.


I really want you to take it.


No one has. I ain't nobody got time for me to take it.


Maybe we'll take I'll take it on another time ok. Oh no. And now everyone's worried about my.


What a lovely you know Monika's no staring at the result.


Oh my God. All right. Well that was all that was incredible. And even if it wasn't all that would be on now, because I'm emotional and you have some emotions to tend to. I love you. I love you exactly as you are. I love that. Whatever that graph is, I love it. Thank you. All right. Good night.