Transcribe your podcast

Every time someone deems me or emails me or hits me in the head on the street and says, Stop, bitch, I have something to tell you. Thank you. Thank you so much for encouraging me to buy and invest in my first vibrator, my first dildo, my first butt plug, my first vibrator. I say don't thank me. Thank Adam and Eve babydaddy gang. You know the drill. Call her. Daddy's presenting sponsor for 2021 is Adam and Eve.


Adam and Eve has thousands of sex products and not just products. If you want lingerie, you want handcuffs, whatever you need in the bedroom. Ladies and gentlemen, Adam and Eve. How's it guys? You are going to get almost any one item for 50 percent off when you go to Adam and Eve Dotcom and use offer code her daddy at checkout. And then you also are going to not only get free shipping, but it is going to be delivered discreetly to your door, you whore.


OK, your mom, your dad, your grandma, your boyfriend. Nobody is going to know what's in that package except for you. As far as they're concerned, if you get a huge dildo, they're going to think it's a goddamn new curling iron, sweetheart.


OK, so Daddy gang, go check out Adam and Eve sex toys. Make it fun, Daddy gang, you should be enjoying yourself. Your clit should be always stimulated. If your boyfriend fucking sucks in bed and doesn't know where your clit is and it's constantly rubbing your belly, button it up, Adam and Eve and get yourself an amazing vibrator to make it happen so Daddy can go to Adam and Eve Dotcom and use offer code her daddy for fifty percent off almost any one item and free shipping with discrete packaging.


Again, Adam and Eve Dotcom use offer code her daddy for fifty percent off almost any one item with free shipping. Let's get into the episode. What is up, daddy gang, it is your single father, Alex Cooper, we call her dot, dot, dot, dot com.


Oh, we're back, baby. What the fuck is up, Daddy? It is your founding father.


For another episode of Call Her Daddy, it's going to be a motherfucking good one this week.


Daddy, can I have a few questions for you, OK? Have you ever had sex with a man in his 70s with seven girls involved? Have you ever lived in a mansion where you had to look exactly like the other girls? Have you ever had a man that would pay for any plastic surgery that you wanted in order to conform to what he wanted you to look like? Have you ever been manipulated and in a verbally and emotionally abusive relationship, the guest on today's episode, Daddy Gang, has experienced all of this.


Daddy gang, if you are not familiar with Playboy because you may be a bit younger or you live under a rock, that's fine. I'm here to explain it to you before I have this guest on today.


Playboy back in the day was a magazine that every single young adult, old married man, whoever the fuck, if you had a fucking dick, you had Playboy underneath your bed in your side drawer, and you would take out your Jurgen's and do a fat fuck and lotion and jack off because there were nude photos of women in the Playboy magazine known as Playmate's Playboy Bunnies. Back in the day, Playboy was known for its tag line Entertainment for Men with Little Weenies, and it really built a culture of objectifying women.


The man behind it all, daddy gangs, his name was Hugh Hefner, or a lot of people called him Hef. He was the king of it all. This man lived the life that he portrayed in the magazines. And although at the time, every man in the history that was breathing thought he was the fucking man because he had multiple hot ass women on his arms, these women were required to have platinum blond hair, fake boobs. At times he would dabble with having two twin sisters as his girlfriends on his arm loved to dabble in the incestuous bullshit with having these women live in the mansion and be his girlfriends multiple at a time.


Half was able to control women under the disguise of his money and power, and this is not a sexual issue. This is a power issue. It looks sexual. The story is going to sound sexual, but this is a power issue that has to do with the misogynistic fucking world that we live in.


However, daddy gang, there is no denying it. Yes, Hef was a smart motherfucker. But you know what? There were one or two women that were just a little bit smarter than little old Hef. Daddy, getting the woman today did not sign an NDA and she is here to tell her fuckin story, introducing former playmate boss ass bitch, business woman, beautiful human being. Holly Madison, Holly Madison, welcome to call her daddy. Thanks for having me.


I'm such a fan of the show. I'm super excited. You don't even understand what that means to me because I am the biggest fan of you. Thank you. I would hide in my room and watch your show because I didn't know if my mom was going to be like, you're allowed to watch that or not. Yeah. And I would binge it. And I idolized you. Like I wanted to look like you. I was so sweet, the whole thing.


You were someone that I looked up to my entire childhood. This show was fascinating. Now, reading your book, it's clearly the show is a little bit different than reality. But I've been a fan of you my whole life, so thank you. So I'm with you. I think today it's going to be cool to have a conversation. And Holly and I had zoomed prior to this just kind of discussing like what what route we wanted to go with this episode.


We are currently in an era. We're not fully there yet, but we're getting there where we're breaking down that wall of misogyny. And because of people like Holly Madison, Holly, I truly believe you paved the way for me and my generation to be able to have a voice. I have this show because of women like you being able to fight through misogynistic environments and come out on top. You not only survived, but then you thrived after the mansion.


Thank you. And like I was saying before, on our Zoome, like, I wish a show like yours had been around when I was younger because I feel like when I got into that situation at the mansion, which we'll get to after, like my first night there, there was so much shame involved in it that it really made me afraid of like everyone's judgment outside because I didn't feel like I had anyone to talk to you about that kind of thing.


And even as recently as like 15, 20 years ago, I feel like just women weren't talking about sex openly or positively at all. It was still like a very shameful thing. It was still like nobody admitted to having a body count of more than two people, which isn't really realistic at all.


Yeah, like if you do like I, I totally say, like, get out there, keep going after it. Where prior it was like, oh my God, you've had sex with two men. Disgusting. What's wrong with you. No one's going to want to touch you or marry you and it's like, shut the fuck up. That's absolutely not how it goes. So I really thank you for saying that because I think that's why we're here today.


Like, you are a pillar of what I look up to as a woman who you had it so rough back then. And so we're going to kind of get into because as we're talking back in the day, Holly in her twenties was up against the really the heightened version of what was misogynistic culture. And then you went headfirst into the mansion, which was the sexual top tier of anything you could have gotten to. And I think you thought it was a glamorized life and it clearly wasn't.


So before we get into your adult life that you're known for, I think it's it's always interesting to kind of delve back into your childhood. And if you could if people haven't read the book, kind of walk us through like where you're from, who you were as a child, because I think a lot of people think it's fascinating. Like, how did how did you get here?


Yeah, well, I was born in Oregon. I moved to Alaska when I was three. I grew up there from ages three to ten. And I lived in a really, really remote area in Prince of Wales Island. It was basically I lived in a really tiny town, but there were some off. We moved around a little bit to you and there were some very like off the grid moments. Like when you see those like Alaskan off the grid, shows like that was very much my childhood.


Like I used to read The Little House on the Prairie books when I was a little and I would like relate to that because I felt like that was kind of my life. And then I moved to Oregon when I was in fourth grade and we moved around to a bunch of different towns to the point where I was going to like two different schools every year between like fourth and sixth grade. So I had a hard time fitting in. And I also looking back, I suspect that I'm not neurotypical.


Like I think I have Asperger's, like I want to go get diagnosed because I have I've always had, like, a difficult time connecting with other people. And I bring that up because as we get into the story of me arriving at the mansion and thinking it's realistic for me to have a relationship with a much older man when I was dealing with all the love bombing and the things that were coming from him, I kind of thought to myself, well, I've never really connected with a guy my own age and I have a lot of time connecting with anybody my age.


Maybe I'm just like this old soul and I'm meant to be with older people. So I think that played into that a lot being. Vulnerable, talking about potentially wanting to know if you are on the spectrum, that is we're talking about so many things, but like finally things are getting normalized. Yeah, that's a topic that I don't know is very normalized right now. So for you to come on here and say that I respect you so much, how has that journey been like for you?


Like, what has that has that process been?


Well, I never considered myself as someone who might be on the spectrum. I just never thought of it. I always thought I just had difficulties with people and I was just different. And I just attributed it to being like an introvert or a bookworm growing up or things like that. I just thought I was just always challenged socially. I didn't know. But one time my ex-husband was talking to my mom and he was asking her, like he was saying, I was really hard to connect with.


And that's like my husband at the time saying that. So that that just goes to show how hard I am to connect with. And he was asking my mom about it. My mom said, well, I always thought she had Aspergers and she just never said anything to me because it's not I mean, you can do treatment for it, but it's not like something you can be, you know, quote unquote cured from or anything like that. So she never said anything about that.


And there were moments in my childhood, and this was in the 80s when I was really little, where people would come up to her and ask if I was autistic. And back then, autism wasn't being diagnosed like it is today at all, like there wasn't the awareness. So that must say something.


I don't know what it was about me that was giving off those cues, but it's been something that I wanted to go. I thought about getting it. I'm definitely going to get a diagnosis. I actually wanted to before I came on this podcast because I'd love to be able to, like, speak more intelligently about it, but I was just too busy.


No, that's amazing that you're open about that. I actually would love to. Keep updated on that journey with you. Oh, yeah, for sure. I have so much respect for you to be open about that because it's not a deficit, I think of anything you coming on here that's a strength for you to be like maybe that is happening. And maybe that's why I am the way understanding, no matter what it is, why you are the way you are, that helps you then understand why you make the decisions you make.


So in your childhood, I can imagine now you're saying that makes more sense. You're isolated in terms of actual your environment. You're never in one place at one time. And so you're not getting the typical. Oh, those are my middle school friends. These are my high school. We're all together. You're constantly moving. And then on top of that, having a having a hard time connecting with people. So would you say in high school you were like a loner?


Would you say you were outgoing, but you just weren't connecting with girls? Like, what do you think you're like? Who were you in high school?


If we were like, I definitely the weird girl. I was like a hybrid. I was on the cheerleading team, but I was also like the weird, quiet girl who where like bizarre clothing. And we stayed in one place for high school. So I was there and I had some friends, but it was never really the same group of friends every year. And they weren't really like deep friendships, like great people. But I kind of was moved to a place where everybody had known each other since kindergarten.


And there were some people who are really cool and like really like took me into their group. But I never really had a super deep connection with a peer at that age. I had a boyfriend in high school, too. But even that relationship, looking back, it wasn't super deep. And then in college, I went to Portland State University first, and that was a school with a lot of older students. It wasn't like a party school, like typical college experience.


I transferred down to a school in L.A. and was just never really I never really had like the normal college social scene or never like when I would date it wouldn't last very long.


I just had a really hard time connecting with people I watched. That's interesting. I watched I think it was like an easy interview that you had done like ten years ago. And you get to L.A. because you said you idealized L.A. You would go there at times for, like, family vacation. Yeah, I always wanted to live in L.A. when I was a kid, so I was super excited. You know, I transferred schools. I was there and I also wanted to be an actress.


So I had an agent. I was doing auditions, I had scholarships. But I had to keep my grades up to get my scholarship, keep my scholarships and also work just, you know, for spending money and for rent and stuff like that. So I was kind of trying to do too many things at once, like trying to get the good grades so I could keep my scholarships and working a lot of hours waitressing so I could pay my bills and also auditioning and kind of failing all of them because I was just trying to do too much at one time.


And it kind of got me to this place where my roommates had all kind of like given up on L.A. and we're moving back home. You know, my credit was shot to hell because, you know, I just it wasn't that responsible for credit cards. And I was kind of in this desperate place of literally, like sleeping on somebody's couch. And I'd been going to these parties at the Playboy Mansion and, you know, seeing the community there, which all seems very nice on the outside, you know, all his friends, like, love him and talk him up.


And he seems like such a nice person. And, you know, some of his girlfriends were talking to me a little bit like, oh, you should come out with us sometime. And I thought maybe, maybe this is something I should do. So I have like a safe place to live. I kind of skipped ahead.


No, no, no, no. This is good. You know, you're giving us everything we need. Two seconds. My first question is, prior to moving into the mansion, prior to getting to L.A., what was your relationship like with your family? Because I always think that's like everyone has their shit with their families or amazing families, whatever it is. But just the dynamic with your family, do you have siblings, etc.?


I do have younger siblings, but my dynamic with my family, it's we're not super like close. But I think that's because I was not really close with anybody and didn't open up to anybody growing up. And like, when I say I'm not close with my family, I think people think that means that they're bad or and it's not it at all. Like they're great people. I just wasn't super close. And like when I was making a decision and thinking about, oh, maybe I should move into the Playboy mansion, that's nothing I would have ever like discussed with my family.


OK, that makes sense, because I think the dynamic always with like every single person naturally wants to be like Holly, what did what did your parents. Yeah. What did you tell your parents? How did you tell you? Were you the oldest? Yeah, I was the oldest. That's interesting.


And I did tell them once I moved in, but I didn't tell them, you know, all the details or anything. And I remember after I'd been there maybe a month, like my dad came down to L.A. and he stopped by and like this was during the day and he came into the mansion. Yeah. And like, Hef was busy using the office and stuff. And my dad was like, oh, so does Hef even live here? OK, and I was just like, yeah, but like but like, that's how little they know about anything that was going on or like what the relationship was.


OK, so as far as I knew, like their daughter was in a house and it almost looked like a sorority house and like. Yeah, Holly, like you said, you had one boyfriend in high school. Can I ask you when you lost your virginity? Yeah, I was 16, OK, and was it with that boy? Yeah. OK, so you finally are in L.A., Daddy. She's out of new college. She's trying to figure it out.


You have to explain, like, how did you even get to the Playboy Mansion? And also, I think it's important to explain, like, I grew up on this and I know there's people a little bit younger than me, like the Playboy Mansion was everything like, you know, it was it would never be allowed. Now, are you kidding me? He's like, fuck no. Like, Hugh Hefner would literally be like, I'm not crazy.


Say he would be Harvey Weinstein. But like, there was a huge issue. Now, if that was to be like, are you fucking kidding me? Absolutely not. You're objectifying women. Not OK. But back in the day, it was so glamorized. And every A-list celebrity, like you name it, I'm sure Leonardo DiCaprio brought here like those people were at these parties because in the beginning it was so exclusive. I mean, obviously you can attest to it more than I can.


But I just know that anyone that doesn't understand Playboy and the Playboy Mansion, it was the place to go. And it was infamous and it was everything. Yeah.


When I moved here in nineteen ninety nine two thousand so long ago, I feel so weird to say how long ago that was, but going to a party at the Playboy Mansion and it was like the thing everybody wanted to do. And my job when I was in college, I worked at a Hooters in Santa Monica and all the women who work there were always talking about wanting to go. And some of them did get invited because for these parties, like the big parties at the mansion, maybe the guest list would be like a thousand people.


And it would be like Hef, really small circle of close friends. It would be playmates, it would be celebrities, and then it would be just tons of beautiful women. Got it. Like there wouldn't be very many men there at all unless they were like celebrities or like a close friend of Jeff's. And you're always get it like girls.


They're like looking for new. Yeah, I get invited for a shirt. And so. Randt, how did you get invited?


I got invited because I was working for Hawaiian Tropic. They would basically like hire you to like show up in like a Hawaiian Tropic tank top, but like some random event or something like that. Another side hustle and hefts doctor was at one of the events and he told the coordinator like, oh, invite all of these women to the next party. And I was so excited because it was just the exciting thing to do. It was like the exclusive invitation, like a few girls that my work got to go.


And they always thought I was like, really cool. And when I went to the first party, how did you decide what to wear?


Oh, my God. Oh, God.


Well, it was a lingerie party. And obviously, like, I didn't want to wear anything too revealing, so I was kind of nervous. So I went to like a Frederick's of Hollywood.


Oh, my God, I love you. It was a laundry party. They didn't want to wear anything too revealing. Why do I want to be like thong out, but. Right.


But I got like a corset. So I was at least like my stomach was covered and I got like one of those little silk robes that go over it. So I think I probably wore thong underneath. But still, I was like kind of covered. So I went and there was another girl, my roommate who worked with me, got an invitation as well. So we were so excited that we both got the invitation and we went to the party and like the party didn't disappoint at all.


It was just like the backyard where the party was. There was a tent over the backyard. It was so beautiful. Like you saw so many recognizable faces, like the women were all so beautiful. And people always want to know, like, were there crazy orgies and stuff? I'm sure there were. I heard about it, but like, I didn't see it when I was there. It was probably like too early. I probably, like, ended up actually leaving early.


I don't like going to bed. I actually was asleep, but I'm pretty sure because I remember like watching it and every everyone talks about the fucking grotto. Yeah. Like whatever. And everyone's like there's probably orgies out by the grotto and it was just this like fairytale land. But it's also I can only imagine how stress inducing to be what I'm like. I have my insecurities walking into that mansion and I guess maybe in the beginning, although it was intimidating, you had nothing to lose.


Yeah. For seeing all these beautiful women, I would be like, holy shit, the competition and how you have to look a certain way. And if you don't have one hair like are you even allowed in like those, those thoughts would go through. I think any girls head of just being super self-conscious in this type of environment. And it breeds insecurity.


Yeah, for sure. When I went to my first party, I didn't feel like that because I just felt like lucky to be there. And I was just like, you know, seeing women that I recognized and recognized from the magazine. I'm like, oh my God, they're so beautiful. But living there and once you're more just involved and the whole thing. Yeah, for sure.


Your first party, how did you then slowly transition into getting into the actual house and being able to live there?


I went to the first party and then I got invited because when you go went to the parties, they would have you take a Polaroid when you arrived, if you were new on the guest list and they would grade you like A, B or C and like A would be invited to everything, B would be invited, you know, sometimes like to the really bigger party. C was like desperate or something.


I don't know, like we've got a shortage of. Spring break the season, you like it, OK? Yeah, and I knew obviously, like you're told, they're going to take a Polaroid of you when you show up, but I didn't really know about the grading process.


And later, so they take a Polaroid of you. And then I got called to go back to like one of the smaller parties, which was like the fun in the sun pool parties they'd have on Sundays. So I was really excited to go to that. It was really small there, maybe like 10 to 20 women there. And just like happened his really close circle of friends, like he'd be in the corner playing backgammon by the pool with some people and then, like some of his friends would be like out on the tennis courts.


But it was a really small pool party. And I would go to those. And you, like you would say hi to have or thanks for inviting me, but he would never really talk to anybody. And I just kind of got to know some of his friends and just the other women that went up there. And everybody just seemed to have such a positive view of him and the whole environment.


And creepy like, did any of you ever have to, like, sleep with his friends? Because like I have talked about on call her daddy before, like now it's like there are the say. It's like an athlete and then the athlete has that, like, ugly ass, weird friend. You're the bulls. You no, I love the vulture because vultures are so real. Like I've had that in so many of my relationships. The dudes have had vultures and they've tried to, like, ruin my relationship with the dude.


It's such a thing.


It is like you are out of your mind half the time. They're ugly and I'm like you. They're like getting the runoff and the runoff is like a hot chick. And we you are only fucking this girl because of who you're associated with. Don't get it twisted. And so I'm wondering, like in the highest form of it, you have Hugh Hefner and then I'm assuming he allows because I know he was like a pretty jealous guy, but like I'm assuming he allows some guys to come into his area.


Like you're saying, you talk to them. Did any of the girls ever sleep with his friends? Not that I know of.


Like, he was always really careful about just having other older men around. And I know some of them would like try to talk to the playmates, but as far as I know, it would never really get anywhere. He was very selective about how he curated his friend.


I kicked him out because I'm then I'm thinking like the party is like if they're celebrities at the parties. Imagine now in today's age, like Bradley Cooper is walking your girl and like hefts in the corner, like, I'm assuming any girl is going to want to go for Bradley over, like Hugh like was there any issues with celebrities at the time talking to his girlfriends and then having that issue? Like, how did you just not talk to the celebrities when you kind of were the main girls, has the girlfriends in the party situation?


Well, a lot of the girlfriends did. Like when I first moved in, there were six other women living there and a lot of them were dating other people on my side. I mean, they weren't supposed to do that was like against the rules. And Hef was super jealous. Like, I've seen people come in like five minutes after 9:00 p.m. curfew and, like, get dressed down by him just so it was so strict.


But like, people would try to have side relationships. Oh, for sure. People would sneak out. People would be like dating guys on the side. They would always say, oh, man, a fly home and visit my family.


But they really like their boyfriend and Kid Rock or something. Oh, my God, I love it. I love it. They're like casually dating. Kid Rock is a classic Playboy mansion. So you finally get in because I remember in the book you're saying you basically, which I love it, you've bawls, you essentially walked up to half one day and you were like, do you think I can live here in like. Yeah. And you said, like, you would like speak high pitched because he can't fucking hear.


He's like, yeah, you're like, yeah, he wouldn't. He lost his hearing in one ear. So I always felt like he couldn't hear me unless my voice was like really high pitched and it kind of just built up over the years so that I had this like mega bimbo voice when I was talking like that's how you like at least you can get his attention.


And so he says, yes, come live.


Well, I had to sleep with him first. OK, OK. Yeah, but that is something I love that you called Kendra out in it. There was like so many things that I want to discuss, but like I respect that in Kendra's book she had said like and then I moved in and you're like, hold on. You don't get to act better than us. Like, hold on. You have to admit that you had to sleep with him before moving in.


Like, let's let's not get it twisted.


Yeah. Like, I'm not trying to shame anyone or anything, but it's just like nobody ever got asked to move in unless they had slept with him. OK, so that's a prerequisite like you for sure. OK, yeah.


I mean you think about it, it would be even creepier if he's like, oh, move in and then it's like jumping out.


Oh that's actually true. It's almost like you. It's I guess it's kind of like dating nowadays. Like, yeah. A lot of people want to have sex with the dude before you're going be like you're my boyfriend. You're not like, let's be boyfriend and girlfriend and then let's try to have sex. Yeah, no, no, let's fuck first. And then if we want, we'll get in a relationship commercial.


If you drink alcohol, say I, absolutely, I daddy going, it's like I'm your fairy godmother today and I am granting you a hangover cure. Oh, stop, Alex, it's now. No, no. Oh, no, baby. It fucking is liquid. I the when you push your body hard you feel run down. You've been hitting the vodka a little too hard. You need to make hydration obviously a priority with one stick of liquid I.V..


You guys poured into 16 ounces of water like put it in a water bottle and then you get two to three times the amount of hydration as plain water. Personally, after a long weekend, I love after funneling tequila to the back of my throat, I then turn around and funnel liquid I.V. in the mornings, always to the back of my throat. They have amazing flavors, guys you guys can pick.


There's lemon, lime astbury, passion fruit, OK, guava, watermelon, apple, motherfucking pie, baby and strawberry. Basically, guys, you always think let's go to the grocery store and get ourselves a goddamn blue Gatorade. I don't think so, sweetheart. If anything, the sugar makes you feel worse. Like what? I contains five essential vitamins. It has more vitamin C than an orange. It's made with clean ingredients, non GMO vegan, free gluten, dairy, soy.


And on top of it, we love a company that is doing good in the world. The company is donating four million servings in response to covid-19. OK, products are being donated to hospitals, first responders, food banks, veterans and active military. So daddy gang, we're not only helping ourselves, but we're helping the goddamn world when we drink. Liquid are so liquid. Ivy guys, you're going to grab your liquid ivy. You can either go to a Costco and get it in bulk.


I mean, everybody loves a good God damn Costco run. You guys can get at Costco or you guys can get twenty five percent off when you go to liquid ivy dotcom and use code daddy at checkout again, that is twenty five percent off. Anything you order when you use promo code, daddy, liquid ivy dotcom or you guys can go get it in a big fat chunky bulk at motherfucking Costco. OK, liquid ivy dotcom promo code daddy for twenty five percent off anything you order.




So the, the infamous night you're out, did you know this was going to go down.


You know I knew I was prepared. OK, we. And why.


Because you thought you were going to potentially move in soon and so you did. OK, so can you walk them through the night if they didn't read the book? Yeah, well, I don't think I would have had the balls to approach him and say, oh, can I go out with you guys one night? And the only reason I felt comfortable doing that is some of his girlfriends had already, like, casually suggested it, like, oh, you should come out with us some night.


So the only reason I even had the balls to do that was because I was kind of desperate, like I was sleeping on somebody's couch. Like, I just felt like I need a minute to, like, reset my life. And I felt like if I could stay at the mansion and, you know, just have a minute, kind of like not worry about bills.


And that is so relatable. I'm sitting here thinking like I've been there where I was dating a guy that had money and I knew he was cheating on me, but I didn't want to let him know. I knew yet because I didn't have anywhere to go. Yeah, you just need a minute to figure out. Yeah.


Like, where am I going to go there? Is that like fight or flight moment of like take care of yourself and then figure it out as much as it may seem unrelatable, this crazy world with someone saying you want to move into a mansion. I don't know. How old are you? 21, 22, 22. Yeah. I think a lot of people maybe like maybe. So you have this idea. You go out with have had you known all the girls up with him or just the main girlfriend?


Because I know publicly don't they say it's just the main girl. Yeah, OK.


Well, I assumed they all had to sleep with him at some point. Yes. But it was impossible to get the full story because the girls would never talk about it ever. And in fact, right after I joined the group, we went on a trip to New York and we were at this Comedy Central roast they were doing for half. And this journalist came up to me and asked me, oh, you know, just ask me a few questions.


She goes, So are you guys like a traveling harem? And I just kind of laughed and said, yes. And then one of the other girlfriends came up to me after the journalists left, and she was like, what did she say to you? What did you say? And I told her and she goes, No, we don't ever say that. Like, we don't ever admit to sleeping with him. We only say Tina does because Tina was like the quote unquote main girlfriend at the time.


So they would always kind of blame it on her so they could, like, keep their reputations intact.


I guess it wasn't hefts doing like Heiferman. Like, I don't think I would give a shit if he's like, yeah, I'm fucking all these. Oh, he wanted everybody to know.


In fact, before I moved in, one of his girlfriends had gone. She was a centerfold and she had gone on Howard Stern and she full on, said, yeah, I live with them, but we don't have sex with him. And he ended up like banning her from the Playmate list, like she wasn't ever allowed to do promotions for Playboy.


Again, he's fully trying to make sure the narrative is he has sex with all these women. Yeah, absolutely. Which is sort of true. Yeah, yeah, so you go out that night, I remember you saying you're getting really hammered. I think any girl would do as they're chilling with this like 70, 80 year old dude, and you're like getting ready for like a potential night. You get back to the mansion.


Well, first, he tried to offer me Quaaludes, which I turned down to, to tell the daddy what he called them, told me that, yeah, OK, the whole story.


OK, I got it back up a little bit to just to show you where my mind set was. So I'd been coming up to the mansion parties for about a year at that point. And I was at a point where obviously I didn't know Hef well. I'd never really had like a major conversation with him, but I'd gotten to the point where I kind of like, admired him and looked up to him because he was so successful and he seemed like such a nice person who was so generous with all his friends and always throwing all these, you know, pool parties and buffets.


And everybody spoke so highly of him. And just from the outside, everybody seemed really happy. Like I didn't notice that a lot of the girlfriends didn't show up to like the pool parties and things like that. And I wondered why they didn't like those things.


I didn't know, like at the pool party, it seems. Yeah. So maybe that was like a hint that they were miserable, that they didn't want to show up to those things. But I didn't see it as that at that time. It just everybody seemed really happy from my perspective at the time. And he showed a documentary about himself, which sounds funny, but he he had a screening of this documentary about himself one of the nights I was there.


And I watched it and it told this whole story about how he had this problem. He had a secretary who ended up killing herself because she got in some trouble with the law, some big, long story. And he was saying how like he didn't do drugs and he didn't ever want drugs in the house. And he felt like the FBI was trying to, like, set up this woman and, like, rat him out and say there were drugs at the house.


So he was like talking about how he was like anti drugs, didn't want drugs at the mansion or something.


So when we're out of the club and he offers me these Quaaludes, I thought I was being tested. I thought he was testing me to see, oh, is this girl going to, like, bring drugs into the house or is she going to do drugs? So I said no. And he was like, oh, I go, no, I don't do drugs. And he goes, yeah, I usually don't either. But, you know, in the 70s, we used to call these thigh openers.


I'm like, OK, I'm like, so listen, I'm the guy pumping the fuck away from me. No, no, no. We and so girls would take them. Absolutely.


He would hand them out four years after I moved in. Like there got to be a point where his source wasn't available anymore. So he stopped handing them out maybe like three or four years after I moved in. But he would hand them out every night and people would accept them because it would relax them.


And then it's like they're going back to have sex with this dude. Yeah. They'll be relaxed and not realizing, like, what the fuck is that? Yeah. OK, so you deny love at all.


You're like, oh, you're like, no, I'm just passing test No one like. But now I'm going to go hit the vodka super hard. Yeah, totally. And we always smoked weed when we got back to the house too. So it was like always wasted. Like I don't remember a time in that bedroom. I wasn't wasted. OK, that.


Oh so you get back and the bedroom or the what is it called the bed routine or the nighttime routine. Yeah. What does that even mean.


Well everybody would go upstairs, you know, after we went out and basically everybody would have sex and I didn't know what to expect. Like I said before, I assumed everybody was having sex with them. But I kind of I think I had the feeling that, OK, well, this is my first night out. Maybe I won't be expected, do anything my first night. Maybe I could kind of, like, ease into it. Maybe I could kind of like sounds creepy, like I'm being a total looky little, but maybe I could kind of like, see what's going on or like see what this entails or maybe somebody else explain it to me.


Yeah. And but then when I got up there, I was so wasted and was just kind of like thrown into it that once it was done there was something about the experience that made me feel very out of control. So it sounds a little counterintuitive when I say feeling out of control in that situation made me want to, like, stick to that situation more, because other people might say, well, if you were uncomfortable with that, why didn't you just fucking run?


No, but for me, like, I'm already kind of in this desperate situation anyway. And I'd already kind of thought that living at the mansion might be a solution to my problems. And I think I felt like if I were just to leave that night and never go back, I would have felt really used. Really cute. Yeah, exactly. Really chewed up and spit out. And then I'd be dealing with all my real world problems on top of why did I do that?


Why did I like compromise my boundaries.


I, I completely understand that. It's almost like when you make a decision that you're like, what did I do? Sometimes it's way easier to lean harder in rather than face the truth. And I think it's also really understandable that you're walking into a room where there's seven girls and you're like you're saying, I was hoping maybe someone would like explain it to me. Yeah. But then reading in the book, you had a female that Vicky or whoever that you almost said felt like she was like grooming girls where it was like she's in for sure.


Right. She's a girl. And so, Daddy going to give you an idea, this girl was already in the mansion, she would then go find girls that weren't fully girlfriends that could come back those nights basically to have sex if she didn't have to have sex with half like that's what it sounds like it was like. Yeah.


Because not everybody would have sex every night. Like if somebody, like, kept their underwear on, that meant like they were on their period or something like that. And of course people would try and wear their underwear as many nights as possible, but then Hef would always pressure them.


Or if somebody wore he's like, you've been on your period. Yeah, exactly. And I think for her, like she used to tell me that she was like the quote unquote, lesbian of the group, like not meaning she was actually a lesbian, but that she would go out and recruit other girls. And she's like, I chose that role. And I always kind of felt like it was to win favor with half, but also like to take pressure off of her.


So, like, if she's keeping her underwear on and not having sex as much, like he doesn't really put pressure on her because she's the one that's who's always. Yeah. Bringing girls in.


Also, I can only imagine how intimidating like at twenty two I'm trying to picture myself in that environment and any girl listening, you can try to picture it too with me. Like I remember in the book you said the like two screens are on with porn and the lights are low, like it's a full orgy happening. But like had you ever had sex in a room with people watching, you know, so like not at all.


Like I only ever had, like, the most boring basic sex ever. So so I'm assuming like that's first of all, shocking. Yeah. I can imagine you're like, what is happening? And then I remember you saying, like it was the fastest situation. Like one minute there's a body on top of you in the next it's like over. And he I guess he like does he always just jack off to finish himself.


He never comes in again. No. Also, does he ever pleasure girls like did he ever get a girl off or is it all of you just getting him off?


No, I don't think he ever did. I'm trying to I'm trying to think I'm trying to go back and be like now that you mention it, I know that that wasn't. No, that wasn't his thing was it wasn't his thing to ever pleasure that we know no one was getting fingered. No one was getting eaten out by him.


I mean, he might like finger people, but but it wasn't like wasn't like a big let's get you know, everyone is in the room faking orgasm. Yeah. For sure. It was a full show, kind of like everything else. It's like not just in the bedroom. Yeah. You leave that experience. There were three types of girls. You said after those moments of having sex with Hef, it was the runner. Yeah. The hustlers and then the fighters.


And can you describe that tier system so they can understand that?


Well, I felt like, you know, over the years, I would see so many women, like, just come in for, like one night and some of them would just disappear, like you never hear from them again. And that's kind of, I think, what most people think a quote unquote normal reaction might be like if you went upstairs and didn't really like what you saw, what you participated in, that you would just leave.


And then there were people who I like, other women who lived there before me and some who came during who I mean, I wasn't close with these people.


I didn't get along with them at all. And I don't want to assume I know what was going on inside of them. But from the outside, they seemed like they were just really good at like hustling. Like they came straight from, like the strip club. No, no offense. If you're a stripper, I'm not saying every stripper is the same, but they just knew the hustle and they were good at it and they seemed a little more detached where I felt like I was just internalizing, like all this shame.


And I just felt like by sticking it out, I was just fighting, like for myself and fighting to, like, get something out of this experience. I guess.


I think that's I understand what you're saying. Like the girls that almost went in there when they got into the room, the lights were off and all the girls there, they anticipated that they understood, like, this is the first up. And then the next step is hopefully I get to move in like they obviously understood what they were trying to get out of this. You went in. You obviously had the idea of, like, I do need a place to say this does look kind of like a great situation, possibly.


And then you get the reality hits. You're in a bed with an eight year old man with seven girls. And after that, I get what you're saying. You're like, hold on, if I just fucked this dude, I'm going to get something out of this. I can't just now go home, like, not get something out of this, but like, I got to, like, keep fighting. Like, now I do deserve a fucking bedroom in the house.


Yeah, for sure. Like living at the mansion was something I thought would just be like a super fun, like, crazy experience in my twenties that I look back on. Yeah, exactly. I you know, I knew it wasn't going to be conventional and I was excited about it. And I wanted to stay and like get that full experience even. And even though that first night wasn't like a sexual experience, that I would have organically wanted to do it in a way, just not being comfortable with it made me want to push more to get the part of the experience I wanted out of it.


Had you can I ask you, what was the oldest man prior to half moving to the mansion that you had had sex with?


Oh my gosh. Like a guy in his early twenties, probably.


OK, so this was like so new. Yeah, this is like this is like out of your comfort, every everything about the experience was completely different.


And I get what you're saying, like now that you've had time to reflect and you're saying, like, maybe I maybe socially, like, why is it not easy for me to connect? So maybe this moment was the most validating you had felt like you're saying he started to like you got all these compliments.


Oh, yeah, for sure. Like when you have this really accomplished older man who is surrounded by all these people who just have nothing but the most glowing things to say about him. And he's saying to me, like all the things that now I know are super cliche for rumors, but like you're so mature for your age, you're so smart for your age, like you're so giving for someone your age.


Remember, you listen to the mikhalevich. Yeah. Like if someone says you're for your age, fucking run like crazy like and I remember he oh my God, that's funny because me it was like run, run, run.


But I get what you're saying, but it is kind of like a weird, intoxicating situation that you're being put into for sure.


Like here was this man who accomplished accomplished so much and seen so much. And he's telling me that, like, I'm really special. Like it's hard not to buy into that because you want to completely.


So you move in. You're one of seven girlfriends in the time. First, can you kind of like, give everyone an understanding of what this place was like? You move in and there's like allowances, curfews you have you're trying to look a certain way, like, can you roll that out for us?


Oh, my gosh, it's hard for me to know where to start. There were so many things like there's the nine o'clock curfew, which was one of the few rules I knew about when I moved in. Like I always say, I always hate it when people say I knew what I was getting into because I absolutely did not. Like I thought I kind of had like a hazy idea of what living at the mansion would be before I moved in.


But nobody breaks it down for you. Like, I think people imagine it being like Fifty Shades of Gray, where the woman is like sat down in a conference room. And given this long contract and you're told exactly what's going to happen and what you consent to and what do you not, it's not like that at all.


Like that's what I remember you saying to like what a weird dynamic with the girls. They don't they if anything, they try to glamorize it to the girls outside so more girls come in at times like you, they won't tell you anything. Yeah. And even as I was there, I would ask, like the woman in the room next to me, I'm like, OK, what happens this day? What happens that day? And they would tell me, like the bare minimum, like they wouldn't even tell me, like, oh, this is the salon we go to that he pays the tab for while I'm like doing my hair.


If I was like, bleaching your hair. Yeah. And they're like fully there's a salon that you're allowed to. Yeah. Nobody really wants to help anybody. Oh. Competition. Yeah, for sure. Like everybody wants a centerfold, like everybody wants more money so you get allowances.


We would get like a thousand dollars a week which I thought was fascinating because you, I remember so savvy trying to figure it out. You're like some girls would try to save the money, whether you're trying to pay off your student loans or whatever, save money so you can get out. Yeah. And then there were snitches in the house that would be like I can tell, she hasn't bought anything this week. Like, she's clearly saving her money.




Because the money was supposed to be for a clothing allowance, for clothes to wear out to a club or to parties. And, you know, somebody would point out, oh, look at her outfit. That only costs that much like they tell one of the secretaries. So the secretary would run back to half and go like, oh, you don't need to give her that much money because she's not spending it on clothes.


So we're like full snitching on each other. Yeah. And it was this weird game where you're trying to make it look like you have something to show for the money, the clothing allowance, but you're also trying to save so you can, like, get out of there.


And so you you get your own room or you have to have a roommate for a little bit of time.


We each had our own room in the well, actually, no. I was put in one of the bigger rooms with one of the other women at first, and then someone moved out. So I was given one of the smaller rooms by myself. And then I moved in to have some room like a couple of months later when, like, his main girlfriend moved out, that we're getting there because, you know, the whole thing is so crazy to me.


OK, so the female dynamic, I think everyone in my DMS right now was like, you have to ask her, like, was it like a sorority house? Was it not kind of paint? The picture of I remember the quote was like it made a sorority house look like Bible study.


Yeah, it was horrendous. Like the first three or four years I lived there, like before it was just me, Bridget and Kendra. It was like me and six other women. And it would rotate like every couple of years, like there would be new people. And it was just really cutthroat. Nobody got along. Everybody was trying to like snitch on the other or like tell half a lie about the other to try and get somebody kicked out.


You started in the Manteno and you were liked because you were like this innocent girl.


I was just more quiet than the other women. Like, they wanted to, like, sneak out and go out to clubs and, like, find the next celebrity to date and things like that. And I just wanted to like, take a minute where I could, like, relax and figure out, like, what's my next step in life and what a half would do. Things like have buffet dinners with his friends or like show old movies. Like, I genuinely liked going to those like I liked his close friends and I liked watching the old movies.


So the other girls like the. First, because they were like, we don't want to do any of that stuff, so somebody else is there doing it that like takes the spot and he's not going to, like, criticize us for not being there. So that arrangement worked. But then and then, you know, when is my girlfriend Tina moved out? The other girls kind of like pushed me into that position because they didn't want the scrutiny of having to be the one who sat next to him and like, ordered his drinks and is there at all the dinners and things like that.


So they kind of pushed me into that spot because nobody wanted it.


OK, I didn't know that. Yeah, because I thought every girl is trying to get the main girl. Oh, my God.


Because I Holly was like, why would anyone want that? Because Daddy being the the main girlfriend has to sleep in his bed. Now you don't get your own room. You have to sleep in bed with him every single night.


And I can't help but be like, wow, absolutely. Zero privacy, zero privacy. You have to sleep with this man every night. And now all the other girls are getting the perks of it's be like I have my own room. I get like all the things. So did you ever want to be the main girlfriend?


Well, at first I was flattered by it because it was like maybe a week after I moved in, one of the other girlfriends was like, oh, I think, you know, when Tina moves out, Hef really likes you. You're going to be his next mean girlfriend. And of course, this is like early on and like helps in my relationship. So it's still like in the love bombing phase. And I just felt like I was really special, like, oh, I'm like the newest one here, like and he wants me in that spot.


Oh my God. Meanwhile, everybody else had like been there long enough to know what the deal was and they were like, we don't want to be there so she can go there.


But then everybody turned on me not long after because Hef realized that he could use like my quote unquote, good behavior. I was like a comparison for the other girls. So if they were like late to curfew or if they were like breaking some kind of rule, he'd be like, why can't you just behave like Holly does? And then then they hated me. Then it was all over. Yeah.


You were the person they all hate because now Hef is comparing all of them to you. Yeah. The goody two shoes. And it's like everyone's like Holly fucking go out once, like stop being perfect because now you're making us look bad. Yeah. Like at first they thought of me as somebody who could, like, kind of fill the spot they didn't want. And then they looked at me as like this comparison of what they could be acting like but didn't want to.


So then they were like, let's get this bitch out of here, daddy game.


If you know one thing about me, I love food, OK? Just like you. And if you follow me on Instagram, you saw that I was posting some truffle sauce. And if you know me at all, you know, God damn well I'm not just going to put the truffle on my plate. I'm going to make sure the goddamn daddy gang also gets truffle on their motherfucking plate guys trough introducing a new partner on the call her daddy show trough.


It is the first kind of luxury hot sauce that has taken the goddamn Internet by storm. I was posting about it before they were a sponsor. Trough has unique blend of real black truffles, red chili peppers, organic agave nectar and delicate spices. You can basically put it on everything. If you were looking at the story the other day, I was putting it on my frozen chicken nuggets. Or you can be a little bit more high class and you can cook yourself a meal and put it on chicken, steak, whatever the fuck you want.


Truffle, make anything taste better because truffle makes everything better. Guys, is American made produced locally in Southern California? We love to fuckin see it. Trump has over ten thousand five star reviews. And you know, you bitches, if you don't like something, no one's given a five star review. And it is the number one best selling hot sauce on Amazon and a Whole Foods mike drop like motherfucking job. It's number one at Whole Foods K.


Well, then that says it all. So, guys, the brand's Instagram and Tic-Tac handles are saw just do sauce and they have the biggest following of any hot sauce brand in the world and we only work with the best here. Call the mother. Fuck Daddy. So guys, honestly, this stuff is awesome. It really goes well in anything. Use code daddy for 15 percent off site wide and free shipping. When you go to trough that's tr you f dot com again daddy for fifteen percent off site wide and free shipping when you go to troughed are you five dot com.


I fully vouch for this one. Guys go to trough dotcom use code Dotti for fifteen percent off site wide.


It's interesting because like in interviews everyone talks about how you guys were in love, you loved him, he loved you. He thought he was going to spend the rest of his life with you. You were going to you tried to have children together. Where do you think that shift happened of you being like, I'm just going to try to get a roof over my head? I want this man's validation and attention to being like I'm in love with this older man.


I'm trying to think when the shift actually happened, because when I was ready to move in, I had this vision of him as someone I really admired, really looked up to. I really thought he was a nice guy based on what I'd seen with my limited interactions with him and his friends. And I had pictured when I moved in, I thought I would be there a year, max, just because I'd seen this revolving door of women coming and going.


And I thought everyone was happy with that situation. I thought that's what he wanted. I thought the women were happy with that. So when I decided. To move in, I didn't think I was like hurting anybody or taking advantage of anybody, it was just this program that was there and there's an empty spot right now. And I had just pictured us like having this friendship, I guess, because I'd seen other girlfriends of his kind of come and go.


And they were always portrayed as like having this really close friendship afterward. And they'd always come back to the parties and they always looked so happy to see each other. So I thought of our relationship as that at first.


But then I started to feel like I was in love with him in a very like looking back on it, I feel like it was a very Stockholm syndrome type of thing where I just felt like I identified with him and he was complimenting me so much in the beginning.


And I just started to, in my mind, blame all the other problems on the other women, like, oh, this is a miserable situation. But if these other women weren't here, it wouldn't be like that. Right. And I think also I felt so attached and connected to him because after I had sex that first night, I had just kind of locked myself into the situation in a way because of like the shame involved, the shame of like, where do I really stand on this?


Did I really think this through? Is this even like within my boundaries to be like having sex so much in front of a bunch of people? And I was thinking about it today when I was coming here, like, imagine having sex with somebody in a room full of women who all hate you and, you know, they're all talking shit about you, like how horrible I am.


I never even thought of it that way until now, like, I felt it the whole time. But I was thinking about it on my way over here. And I'm like, yeah, that was kind of fucked up. That is really traumatic.


How many times a week would you say you all had to do that twice and how awful if you're like in a bad situation with one of those girls and then it's like, let's all get naked and fuck her boyfriend together. Like what? Yeah. And they're like watching you. Yeah, it was gross. Is it weird? What did you like? Was it weird at times. Dynamic, wise. Like did you ever feel uncomfortable like did you zone out when it was like happening with Hef or were you like aware of like the other girls staring at you?


Like did you feel judged at all during that time?


I mean, I think I always felt judged what was happening, but I was dissociating a lot. Like I would always drink a lot when we went out and we would all smoke weed when we got back to the house. And I was definitely dissociating, like even when I think back to it now, like it was very routine. Every time it was very much the same. It's not like things really like switched up or got more crazy, but it was just this thing that I feel like everyone just wanted to get it over with as fast as possible.


OK, I, I'm fascinated to know, did you ever have sex with him? Not in group setting, yeah. OK, so you would have just the two of you. Was that when you were the main girlfriend. Yeah, when I was my girlfriend. And can I ask you like was it good. Like when you're by yourself with him? You know, when I think back to my younger self, I feel like I was kind of asexual for a long time.


Like even though I had a boyfriend in high school who I was into and in college, I dated a couple of people. I feel like when I look back at my college years, I almost feel like I was dating more just out of loneliness or because I felt like I should be interesting because I didn't really feel like I was into guys and I wasn't into women either. But I didn't feel like I was really into guys sexually until after. So maybe and I think also not to interrupt, but I think I think also that kind of plays into maybe one of the reasons I was so OK making the decision to move into the mansion because I was kind of not as interested in guys.


I wasn't like the typical twenty two year old where I'm like crushing on all these guys in college and wanting to be with them or, you know, really feeling like I need to fuck a certain guy because this guy's hot, like I didn't have those feelings at that point. So making the decision to move into the mansion just transactional for you.


Yeah, I'm like, oh my God, I have to, like, think this guy's hot because you know what? I'm not even like that horny for any other guy. Yeah. The amount of people that are like how many vibrators are in this frickin house databases and like how often are these girls masturbating because there's no way, like you had said, like he's not trying to please any of the women. It's just to get half of that makes a lot of sense.


Yeah. I appreciate you for clearing that because clarifying that because I think the dynamic of having sex with this man not getting pleasure. There are girls that had boyfriends. The question was like, why didn't you try to get a boyfriend? Like, was there ever you at a party were like, what? Who's that one celebrity that was like hitting on you that you're like, should I risk it all for Hef? What I'm hearing you say is, like, you kind of weren't interested in any type of relationship at the time.


Yeah, not at all. I wasn't interested in anybody until I met the guy that I dated right after half. And that was like at the tail end of the relationship when I had already decided, I don't want to be here anymore.


That is at the minimum. No, no, Chris. He shall not be named. He shall not be named. I mean, everybody can figure it out. Jesse, I remember watching. It was wild, OK, but you did find him attractive and you did want to have sex with him.


Hmm. Interesting. And you do know why that changed for you?


I think for me, I. I don't know. I think I just had to I mean, maybe it's part of the whole thing where I feel like I'm not neurotypical. Maybe I just and it takes me longer to connect with people. And I just had to mature into it maybe. And I think also just gaining confidence through doing the show. And I also got a job at the Playboy studio and just becoming more of a woman on my own and doing my own thing.


Right. Because when I was a teenager in my early 20s, I just didn't know who I was.


All right. Can I ask you when you had your first orgasm?


Oh, no, I'd had an orgasm, like with my high school boyfriend. Like, I was able to do it, but I just didn't really, like, have as much desire, I guess, like, I wasn't I was just not like you're not like trying to, like, fuck every dude.




I was never, like, crushing on random guys, really.


And I don't think it makes sexual now, but I think I was fair. I was just like a very late bloomer.


Like I look back on myself in my early 20s and think I'm like an asexual person. I feel like I was just dating and going through the motions out of, like, loneliness, or that's because I felt like that's what I should be doing.


And I think that that's OK, though. Like, I think I think that's what I have tried to clarify. I work more with my show recently than in the beginning of call her daddy. The content was so salacious and half of it was like, let's just try to get people to notice the show. Yeah. And you're saying crazy shit. And then the point to female empowerment was like, you can fuck 19 dudes in one night and it's fine.


Yeah. Also, I think there's an important for me now to make sure women know you also don't have to want to have sex every day. You don't have to want to do cartwheels on addict because yeah, you have to have a boyfriend and want to have sex every day. Like there's such a pressure for women to be like you need to want to have sex just as much as men. Why don't you? What's wrong with you? Yeah, like it's always like men in their testosterone.


And then women are like, I feel like I don't want to have sex as much like what's wrong with me. And the fact that you're on call her daddy right now, just being like I was like didn't really wasn't interested. Like I didn't really want to have sex with him. And so it didn't really matter that I was just like going with whoever at the time. Like it wasn't something that was at the forefront of your mind in your life, in your brain.


So that makes sense. And I think anyone listening, you shouldn't feel ashamed if your sex drive is much lower than what maybe your friend in the room is saying. She's like masturbates nine times a day. Great. Yeah, not for you.


Yeah, for sure. I think it's so amazing that we're moving into this time where we can talk about it and we can talk about women being empowered in their own sexuality. Like, like you said, if you want to fuck 19 guys and one night, amazing. But if you want to like not, that's great too. I think the most important thing is just to like take time to get to know yourself and be in tune with, like, what you want and what you don't want, what you care about, what you kind of care about a little bit.


But it's not a big deal, you know, totally.


When you tried to have a child with her and you couldn't and at first you didn't know why, right?


Well, I knew it was because of him, like I was healthy, but he was just too old. And as much as you look back on that now, would you say that you're happy that didn't happen or. Yes. Yeah.


Oh, my God. It's just like when I was when I had first gotten into that situation and something happened to my mind that first night I had sex where I felt like, OK, I did that. I, like, breached my own boundaries and I wasn't comfortable with it. Now I have to make this situation into something I'd almost like locked myself into this box in a way which wasn't hard to do there, because it's a very cult like atmosphere anyway, and you're manipulated to feel that way.


But on top of it, like my own kind of shame kept me there, too, that I just couldn't really I couldn't really imagine a life outside of there. Like I thought, OK, this is my last stop. If I want to have kids, I'm going to try. And then when I knew that wasn't going to be a possibility with him, like we tried in vitro and everything, it didn't work. I was like, OK, well, if I'm not going to have kids here, that's something I need to think about.


Like this is really like a death sentence, you know?


Yeah. What resonated for me and I know a lot of women would be able to relate is like you were in a fully verbally and emotionally abusive relationship, one 1000 percent. Yeah, I'm reading this book. I'm like, holy fuck, this dude is not toxic. He is abusive. Yeah. And I am assuming that also played you are in a heightened situation where any relationship that you're in that is verbally and emotionally abusive, it is so hard to get out of because you are being fully manipulated and you are.


And then in your sense, it then is the Stockholm syndrome of the outside world to you probably look like how am I going to go get a normal job now? Are people going to accept me? Because I know you said this in the book. It was like I was nervous about like, what does life look like outside of the mansion? Doors and I didn't have a set life plan right away, so I was like, I'm going to just stay here because this is at least safer than me going out.


And one of I forget who it was, but someone left the mansion that had had a centerfold or something and then moved back home. Yeah, no know. It happened a few months after I moved in first. Also, another thing that happened is like a week after I moved in, 9/11 happened. And not for people who don't remember, even if you weren't in on the East Coast or close to it, it was so scary because all you hear is like, oh, my God, the Twin Towers have been attacked and then the Pentagon's been attacked.


And the next thing you think is, OK, what's next? Like any major city? And I just remember having gone from, like, sleeping on a friend's couch and not knowing what I'm doing the next day to living in this fortress. Like when 9/11 happened. That was another little moment that kind of made me feel like, oh, my God, I'm safe here.


And then after a few months after that, there was kind of this shift with the group where there was almost a full turn over and the women who moved out, I saw what happened to them. A lot of them went into escorting and some of them had moved back home, which I knew they didn't want to do. But like, they couldn't make it in L.A. they couldn't make ends meet. And some of them got banned from ever coming back to the mansion because of the way the way they were kicked out, like, say, if they were caught cheating on half or whatever.


And then it was always like talked about and shamed within the mansion. So moving out to me looked very scary.


Doesn't look like there's a lot out there after you're watching Girl Leave, it's like I don't want to do that, so why don't I stay here? You talk a lot, too, in the book about like losing your mind a little bit in terms of like feeling like you just got like robotic and you like started to lose yourself and like you were like, I feel dumb, like I feel dumb or what am I doing. Like, can you explain that?


Yeah, I just after being there for a couple of years, I just started to notice that I developed a stammer when I tried to speak, which I never had before. And I just felt like my brain felt slower, like I was slower to think of certain things and think, why do you think you're going to stammer?


Like, do you think was because you were I think it was part of being nervous, part of like partly doubting myself, partly just being in this environment where I was always drinking and like, my mind was never stimulated.


So I started I started like going back to school while I was there and like studying and things like that. And that kind of got me back.


But just being in an atmosphere where you're only valued for your looks and you're just expected to go out and party all the time, and it feels like you were never able to, like, step out a place like and if you did that, you're getting yelled at by him.


Exactly. That toxic relationship. Yeah, I was kind of always in fear of either getting, like, sabotaged by one of the other women. I was always afraid of getting kicked out. I was always afraid of him yelling at me or embarrassing me in front of people. Like when I look back on that time in my life, I feel like I was in constant fight or flight.


The saddest part of it was when you discuss being suicidal in the mansion. Yeah. And you say that you were at a point where you were an environment that was driving you towards thinking you wanted to take your life and you went to have and he basically told you that he didn't want you to go see a psychiatrist because he would they would just tell you leave the mansion. Yeah. What was that the first time that you were suicidal in your life?


I dealt with depression before, like in high school. I'd had it in college. I had it a little bit. And then when I was at the mansion, I got to the point where I was having pretty heavy suicidal ideations because I just was so miserable before the show had come along.


So I didn't really feel like I had opportunities or anything that made me feel useful. And it was just all this infighting within the women. So I felt like there was a hostile world waiting for me outside because I felt like anytime I told anybody like where I lived or what I was doing, they reacted pretty negatively or they felt like they had license to like ask me any kind of explicit questions about my sex life.


And you had mentioned that to me in our conversation. You were like people would feel the need. They would come up to me and felt it was OK to say to me, like asking me sex questions. And if, yeah, today no one would ever ask in an interview the questions that you were asked back then.


Yeah. Especially in a situation like that, because of the situation like that was going on today, you might look at those women and be like, are you OK? But back then it was like, oh, do you have to fuck him? Gross. Why don't you a girl that's in her 20s. Are you OK? Yeah. Instead of like. Yeah, judging when he told you not to get help, that obviously was a huge red flag.


But did you see it as red flag at the time?


I did see it as a red flag and eventually I he told me to talk to his secretary about it. I did. And eventually I did go to a psychiatrist. But it was one that like his doctor recommended, of course. So this was right before we started filming the show. And he put me on an antidepressant and said that I was having anxiety because the show was going to start shooting. And even though the show turned out to be a really good opportunity, I remember when we were told that this is what you guys are going to do, a part of me was really scared.


Because I've always been pretty private and I had wanted to be in the entertainment industry in some way, that was like kind of what attracted me to Playboy in the first place. But I always thought of it as like being an actress or like hosting a show or something like that. Like back then there wasn't even social media. So I was pretty private. I was scared to, like, live this life publicly on the show, especially since there was like so much shame involved in it for me.


And and I was just stressed out because I always felt tricked at the mansion. I always felt like do the contracts you had a contract with the girls next door starts blowing up and we're going all the way back to the MIA episode yet again. It's like, what is with girls getting handed contracts? And you have two seconds to sign it and you're threatening them. And pretty sure that's literally legal. And they said to you, like, you have to sign it now and then.


There was also speculation that Kendra wasn't there to sign it and they, like, forged her signature.


Yeah, I don't know for a fact if that's what happened, but I remember hearing all the talk in the office about it like, oh, Kendra's not here this weekend, but we have to get this signed. And I don't know, like if she actually signed it, like maybe she thinks she did, like maybe they handed her a paper like the day she got back, but and maybe they were lying to Bridgette and I and saying, oh, we need the papers this day and you guys have to sign it.


Maybe they didn't really need it that day. I don't know. But in my opinion, we signed those contracts under duress because it was like the three of us, as far as I know, each had a reason for not wanting to sign. It was like, no, you have to sign it or there's not going to be a show. And you know what what you like, you live here. You have to do it. When we first started filming, they didn't even pay us.


They just, like, expected to do us to do it. They didn't pay us. They also didn't inform us when the nudity was going to be unblurred because we were filming this with the full expectation that everything was going to be blurred. So you can't show nudity on cable TV at that time. Yeah. And, you know, for people who might not understand it, they've never posed nude or anything. You might think, well, if you pose nude, why would you care if there was like a naked video out there?


But there's just different levels for everybody. You know, some people you know, if you're Mormon, you wear a garment under your suit all the time because that's what you comfortable with. Some people feel comfortable changing in a spa locker room in front of other women, but they would never pose nude. Some people feel comfortable posing, posing nude, but they wouldn't want like a video of them walking around naked broadcast around the world. So when we're doing the show and we're filming like our nude pictorials, which is in front of like the Playboy crew, and like they do this for a living.


They don't care. We're comfortable being naked in front of them. But we have the expectation that any video of us would be blurred and wouldn't be shown. And somewhere in the middle of the first season, they decided to take the blurring away because Hef would always screen the show the night it came out, like after the Sunday movie. Right. So when he showed one of the episodes, all of a sudden, like halfway through one of the seasons, the nudity wasn't blurred.


And we're like, oh, okay. Oh, right.


But they never told us that. And you're not making fucking money. No. So it's like, how fucking wrong. Yeah. They just thought that because we lived there that, you know, they just owned us and we were always told we were replaceable. And eventually, of course, we got paid for it. And then when the contracts came along, I don't remember what season we signed the contracts. It was like midway through the whole thing.


And Bridget didn't want to sign it right away. She wanted her lawyer to look at it, which is totally reasonable. I think Kendra was gone and I think wanted her manager to look at it, which is totally reasonable.


I didn't want to sign it because I felt like it was creepy, because I felt like I was signing a contract to be in a relationship, basically. And I told her that. And he goes, Oh, that's sweet. Yeah, but you need to sign it because, you know, we need it today. You're like, E isn't going to order the show. And I just don't really believe a network would operate that way. So I think they were lying.


But it was creepy. That was it. For that was another example on a lot of one of the larger scales of like you fully getting manipulated yet again. Yeah. This man and taking and fully taking advantage of the fact that your content is out there and your nude and you did not sign off on it and you're not getting paid for it. Manipulative. Yeah, for sure. Like not OK. Yeah. Once girls next door ends and you you had said too, which is interesting, like once the other girls were going to leave and it's interesting to go back to what you said you were like.


I thought maybe it would be better with just me there. Like I thought maybe my relationship with Hef would be better. Then when you realized you couldn't have kids, then Kendra and Bridget are moving along. You decide to end the relationship with her. Yeah. And. Is there something you remember like in a day randomly being like, I see the light, I want to leave because like you're leaving a toxic relationship, an abusive relationship. Most girls, it's like they never get to that point to be able to see it.


There's no one also like pulling you out of it. Holly, there's no, like, family member like Holly. We're coming to get you to pack up your stuff. You're going to have to pack up your suitcase by yourself and walk out the doors back to your old car and leave. How did you get to that point? Ready to leave?


It was over the course of a few months because I had a lot of guilt. I felt like I had made a commitment to be with her. I mean, laughable thinking back, but I felt like I had made a commitment to be with him. And we talked about, you know, being together for the rest of his life. And I so I felt a little bit guilty about leaving. But, you know, when I realized I wasn't going to be able to have kids with him, that was a big thing.


And not just that, but also the fact that I was sad about it when that was the outcome and my depression was coming back. And he would go and ask Bridgette why I was depressed, but like, he wouldn't ask me. And Bridget was like, I don't know. I think you need to go talk to Holly.


And like, he wouldn't come talk to me about it was just really weird. So it was that and also the fact that over the years I'd been living there, I had been like making excuses in my mind for this whole relationship. And I always thought that the other women were the problem. And if they were gone and if I didn't have to deal with any of that bullshit, then I could be happy. But as everybody was leaving, I started to realize, OK, it's just me and half he started lashing out at me more.


And I'm not really sure why that was. I don't know if he was just like stressed because like behind the scenes, maybe things weren't going great financially, which I didn't know at the time. But after I left, I know things weren't so great financially for him. So maybe he had some stress or maybe he just didn't have the games of, like, pitting the three of us against each other anymore. Since Bridget and Kendra, we're moving out.


But he started lashing out at me more for, like, really stupid things. And I just realized, like, I can't be here. Like, this guy is an asshole, like I can't stay here. But still even still, I felt guilty leaving. So it took time and it took me actually being, like, interested in another man before I finally was like, OK, I have to pull the plug so I'm not going to cheat.


It's crazy. You say you feel guilty. Yeah. Isn't that weird? Like, it just goes along with, like, all the love bombing stuff and like the we're going to be together forever and you're going to be with me for the rest of my life and blah blah blah. Like he would compare me to Belle in Beauty and the Beast.


Like I just came along to this cat just so he would compare you to balance this guy. It's so sad because now that you've had time to step away from it, like I obviously reading your book, it was clear that. He is well, he's he was he was I'm sorry, he was fully a sex addict, you had to have been you don't have to comment on this, but like fully like maybe weirdo pedophile shit going on. Like, yeah, he the amount of things that you were adding up together of one, the fact that he had your childhood photo near his bed was would be cute maybe for a boyfriend.


But the amount that you were also explaining of like he was so fascinated with young young women. Yeah.


Like he was very careful about like what was legal as far as being with anybody over 18. But there were just little clues I picked up on over the years that were just kind of gross, like nothing overt, nothing to the point where a girl in porn.


Yeah, no, I found I found this weird old reel because I his room used to be just like this hellhole of like stacks and stacks of videotapes was like a hoarder. Yeah. And I was like, I'm going to clean this room up. Like I'm going to get rid of this tape. Yeah.


So I'm cleaning the room up and like I opened this one drawer and there's this old, like film reel and it said Girl and dog and it's in the porn section.


I'm just like, oh, that is so disturbing. Yeah. Is there anything that he ever did like Kinky Wise that you were like, what the fuck?


No, because the sex was pretty like as not basic as it was, it was basic in that it was kind of the same every time. But he always like had a fixation on everyone, like always being fully shaved, OK. Yeah. And he always like, like vaginas to look a certain way. Like what. Like, like the like nothing sticking out like in he's not outis.


Yeah. And I don't know, I just, I just feel like his obsession with like young women was semi gross, OK.


Because it was like a little girls. Yeah. How did you know that. Would he say that to the girls.


Yeah I know he would like get mad if somebody wasn't shaved or like you made comments like maybe the girl with the Audi wasn't.


Yeah. That was the sex. Him literally always just being missionary.


I'm like picturing this old man just like what he was, you know, he was for the most part, like it wasn't this way the first time I was there, but like he was on top the first time. But he was always laying down every other time that I remember.


Oh, and do you guys what have you got on top? Yeah. OK, so this man is now not only pleasuring you, but he's like laying there. You guys have to do the work. Yeah. God, he's so selfish. I have to ask just because Daddy. What was his dick like. I'm have a big dick.


Commercial. No. Oh, God, I love when you do the Neum commercials to Alex. I just got a little relaxed. Take a nice break for a second from this amazing episode. And let's focus on you for a minute, OK? Do you have a bad habit? When I say that you may have a jewel in your mouth. You may be biting your nails. It's the little things, but you want to work on it. You want to get that goddamn jewel out of your fucking mouth.


Right now, if you want to understand why you make the decisions that you make that you would like to adjust in your life, Neum is going to help you. OK? Neum is based in science and built by psychologists. Neum doesn't give you rules, but instead teaches you how to think. So you can accomplish your personal health goals, stick to them long term and get healthy for good. OK, Daddy King, it takes here this one out.


Ten minutes a day. Ten minutes. That's all it takes. Maybe just cut back a little bit on scrolling through. Tick tock sweetheart and jump on to Noom and then go back to the dog so you feel a little bit healthier that day care guys. Ten minutes a day news cognitive behavioral approach means that you're not just improving your health, but you're gaining the goddamn motherfucking knowledge and habits you need to stay healthy. You're understanding why you make those fucked up decisions that you do in ten minutes of the day.


OK, guys. Eighty percent of people that get on Neum finish the program and sixty percent afterwards have stuck with their goals for at least one year. So if you're trying to make a difference because you're going to sign up today for your trial. Neum RN as in nipple. Oh, as in orgasm O as in Oscar M as in Moubayed dot com slash Dotti. Learn how to get healthy and stay healthy guys at neum dot com slash.


Daddy, I have to ask just because Daddy. What was his dick like. I'm a big dick.


It was just like normal. Yeah. The like thing. And he always had to take Viagra. Yeah. For having faked it because I'm assuming. Did you ever have an orgasm with him.


No. I mean I was too messed up I think. Right.


You OK, so you go through all this, imagine you finally leave.


The ironic thing is when I left the mansion, I got sucked into another relationship that was really bad, even though I knew when I was getting out of the mansion, I was like, OK, I'm not going to move in with this guy. I'm going to like, have my own place, my own life. Like, I was so ready mentally to be independent. But it was another, like, love bombing relationship. It was like, no, you need to move in with me like this going to happen.


You need to move in with me, blah, blah, blah. And I just fell into that. And I think it was easier for me to fall into that because this was a guy who was ten years older than me, but still much closer to my age than half was. And seems like somebody, you know.


Oh, when he was like, hot at the time. Yeah, I remember watching his show. I don't even remember what it was on. But I thought, like Chris Criss Angel, whatever is he, he's still doing his shit. I don't know. But I remember him being like the hottest thing. And then you two were like an IT couple at the time. Did you have because that's crazy to go from a toxic relationship and then you get right into and it was like overlap like right as you're leaving, meet him, you get out of the mansion and then you go right back into a toxic relationship.


How long did that relationship last?


Not very long. It was only like four to six months. OK, and then you were like you put a halt to it. Yeah. Like, what the fuck is going on? I'm repeating patterns. You may look a little bit different. Yeah, same situation. Yeah. I really feel like that was sent to me by the universe to just be like this final like dot on the I just to be like OK, you need to never like get into a relationship like this again because I was given a different version of the relationship just without with a younger person and without like the whole cult cult type scenario around as you've grown up now and like you look back on these years, do you find something that you feel like you could help someone listening that feels like they keep getting into toxic relationships?


Like what was it initially about these people that drew you to them? And then what? Like how do you feel like you kept getting how did you go from have to that immediately? Like, was it familiar to you that you thought your did you have in mind, like, I'm going to try something different, but you went right to the same thing, or were you not thinking that, like, make sure I go to something different?


I definitely thought I was doing something different. I thought this I thought this guy was going to be like the polar opposite because he was younger and I just and he didn't have the same type of lifestyle. And I mean, what to watch out for is like love bombing, of course. And back then, like love bombing. I don't even think that term had been going like nobody talked about it. So when a guy is talking about wanting to get married on your first date, like, yeah, you're kind of laughing like how how stupid.


And you're like, tell one friend about it. Like, it's funny, but then you kind of want to believe it. So I'm I would definitely like not take people too seriously if they're like laying it on too strong in the very beginning. Because do you even want somebody who, like, wants to like, marry you without even knowing like that's creepy. That's a really good point.


Yeah. And and just like wanting like pressure to move in together too soon is a really bad sign. And sometimes I feel like I don't even see the true colors of these people until they have you in a position where you're dependent on them in some way, like after you've been pressured to quit your job and after your valuables are in his safe and after, you know, he's pressured you to stop meeting up with your friends and things like that, then the real side comes out.


So those are definitely warning signs.


The isolation I'm hearing, too, of like I know I have had friends that have gotten into because I've been in toxic, but like I've never well know, I did start to isolate myself from my family a little bit and stop telling them maybe some of the bad things he was doing because I was like, but what if things get better? And then, like, I don't want to throw them under the bus to my mom because, you know, when you tell your mom something exactly over and then all of a sudden you look around and the only person that you have is him.


And that's the dependency factor where it's like I isolated myself from my friends, my family, my job, and now I have him. And then that is like what they want. But you have to continue to make sure that the there are other people around you that can be objective when it comes to you and that relationship, like you should be able to talk to your friends about your relationship. And if you can't, why? Yeah, I think it's not because they're judging friends.


Yeah. And they are there's a few, but like most of the time it's like, well why can't you talk about your relationship. Exactly. Up. Yeah.


Is it embarrassing to you? And I think it's interesting what you said about how you always thought it was going to get better, because when my book first came out, I would so often get criticism like, well, if you didn't like it, why didn't you leave? And I think when people don't leave relationships like that, a big part of it, other than just feeling isolated and feeling like you don't have resources, is there's a part of you that really, truly believes it's going to get better.


And that's not to say like a bad relationship can't ever get better, but it definitely clouds your judgment for sure. Like you think it's going to get better. You think this was the last fight and oh, my God, there's so much nicer now. And I just think you really need to be vigilant about looking out for the red flags, like somebody who wants you to move in too quickly or somebody who wants you to, like, hand over your valuables or like stop hanging out with your friends.


It's crazy you say this, too, because I have someone in my life right now that it's been almost it's been a few years now of they're in a toxic relationship and you have to be. So if anyone's listening that you were like my friend is in, one of the advice I could give is like when people say to you, Holly, why didn't she just leave? That is the dumbest question I have ever heard. You clearly don't understand how humans mind work like you were in a situation that was so fucked that to get out of something like that, it takes at times years.


And I'm looking at someone right now in an unhealthy relationship with their partner and she is somewhat starting to see it. But you also have to, as a friend, if you shit on that person's relationship so much, they will fully pull away from you. So it's a hard balance of trying to make sure you're supportive and you're there for the person. But slowly when they're listening and they're shitting on the person, maybe that like they're coming to you and finally opening up to you, like, hey, I'm not really comfortable.


Instead of being like, you got to leave them. Sometimes it just starts with listening and being there for support. And you don't have to provide a solution. I always joke to my boyfriend. I'm like, you always think I'm coming to you and I need a solution. I really just need you to listen. Yeah. Most of the time, if someone's in a toxic relationship, the start of them having any strength, the fact that they're even talking to you about it is step one.


Sit there and listen, because that's what I've been doing. And then finally, I feel like I'm in phase twos with two with this person where she's finally kind of being like looking at like what would life look like without him and how do I even actualize that? And slowly I've started to try to help her like, well, this is maybe like what you could do or like have you thought about living on your own? And like, you don't even have to fully break up.


Like, what about like living on your own? It's like, well, no, he he wants me to live with him. I'm like, well, maybe that's something to think about. Like you just have to slowly go through those parts with them and not force them to leave because like Holly's saying, how the fuck would you know where to go, what to do? You were terrified and you were also being verbally and mentally abused. So it's like it's not as easy as just leave.


No, it's not. Yeah, exactly.


Especially when you're in like a city that you are having trouble making it in for a while. And it's expensive. And and I think, too, like if you have a friend in a situation like that, just for that person to know that somebody is out there willing to listen and not judge is so helpful because I was so scared to talk to anybody for so long because I was just scared of being judged like you.


Why did you sleep with that guy, you know, and instead it's like just be open and accepting of whatever they're coming to you with because that's half the time all someone needs. Yeah, absolutely. You are a boss ass bitch. And when you leave the man, you go Dancing with the Stars, you start. I mean, the peep show gave me chills because watching you be headlining a show that was supposed to have people, like, rotating in is the.


Yeah. And then Holly comes in and gets a show in Vegas and knocks it out of the fucking park. You. I loved it when you did an interview, too, and someone said like because at the time who you were married to, they're like, Oh yeah, and his bank account, you're like, I was doing well before I was married also. Yeah. Thank you for a little bit. Yeah.


And I think it's so great just having like the experiences I had when I was married, like my husband was very, very generous. But we never really like merged finances. Like we always had a prenup that kept everything separate. And even now, like, I don't accept alimony from him or anything. And like, we're just co parenting and everything's good. And I think it's good advice for anybody moving forward is just always keep your own thing going and just to always keep your own finances.


Good. And that's you.


Yeah, it's crazy, I think, as a lot of people don't talk about that. And I think that's a good topic, Holly, of like you having had been married, had your own success. You go you got this amazing gig in Vegas. You are like the woman of Vegas. You're killing it like you have. You are so talented. You can't just headlining a show and it just be like, oh, but it's just because she was Hugh Hefner's girlfriend.


Nope. Fuck off. So talented. You killed it. You did Dancing with the Stars. You were making your own money to then go like it's so fascinating to me. I always thought joking when I was younger. Like whenever people are like, oh, prenups. I'm like, oh my gosh, when you're younger, you're like, oh my God. If he says he wants a prenup, he doesn't love you. Meanwhile, I'm like, oh, whoever I fucking marry prenup.


Exactly. I don't even understand why this day and age people, even their finances and earnings get merged when they're married. I don't understand. That's a good point. Like, if you want to make a deal with your significant other and you're like, OK, since you're spending so much time raising the kids, I'm going to make sure you get this like that should be talked about separately. It shouldn't be. I just don't believe people should get married and automatically everything's merged.


I think that's fucked up.


I agree. And also not that I am a pessimist here, but fifty percent of marriages end in divorce. So it's not that you're planning for it to end, but like be smart and especially to all the girls listening. Like, I agree. I've had so many friends, parents that got divorced and the mom back then, because back then it was like women weren't usually working and it's like they don't have anything. They were like, oh, I didn't have a bank account to myself.


And it's like, make sure you are good on your own. Yeah. And don't rely on someone else because you never fucking know what's about to happen. And now you're sitting here like, I don't I mean, I don't need alimony. We're co parenting. I'm good. I have my own shit. I worked my ass off to get where I am. And now you're sitting here with me and I'm like, I'm in shock that you're here.


But like, it's amazing your journey of saying you were suicidal and imagine you were getting abused. And mentally, physically, all the things are just like down in the dumps. And now you're sitting here and you're like, oh, I am obsessed, bitch. I did all this. You can go through hardships in life and then you can rise from the motherfucking ashes. Absolutely.


Like, I think you can take almost anything you've gone through and turn it into something positive. And I think that's part of, you know, what I was holding on to when I was there and just hoping things would get better. I'm like, I have to turn this into something like I don't want to look back on this and think, oh, that was that shitty night where I fell, you know, used and chewed up and spit out like I want to thrive.


Yeah. Like I said, you not only survive, but you thrived in your book. Now, having had come out, when you look back on writing it, the I had said to you, obviously, there was some shade getting thrown from both. You can draw everyone. Yeah. Do you feel like now you still stand by everything you said in the book, is there anything different that you feel or you kind of still on the same page?


Oh no. I'm one hundred percent still on the same page. I just there's one tiny little nit picky thing, like I think I commented a lot about on other women's like plastic surgery at the mansion, not naming names or anything. But I would say, oh, this person had so much filler in her face, she looked old. And it wasn't like I'm even trying to tear her down. I was more trying to make a commentary on how toxic everybody's like dysmorphia and body issues in the competition were there.


And now plastic surgery so much more common. But fifteen years ago, it really wasn't. So when I stepped into the mansion and I'm hanging out and one of the girls rooms and she's like pinching her stomach and saying, I need to get lipo. And then she picks up the phone and orders chocolate cake for breakfast.


It was just like a whole new world. I was just like, what is happening here? It was just like plastic surgery was so common. So I think I would like word that different because going back, I kind of look at it and I'm like, oh, sounds like I'm being catty or mean. And that, like, wasn't the point. It was more like I'm just trying to comment and I've had plastic surgery. I don't care. I don't think there's anything wrong with it.


But no know everything in my book.


I still feel like the same way about and I kind of I agree with you in the sense that I'm also sure what you were trying to point out was when you first got there, you had had your boobs done, but you weren't fully morphed into the girl next door that you see on the. Yeah. And so, like you said, your hair was in a certain way, your face didn't look a certain way. You weren't doing your makeup a certain way.


So when you got there, you're looking at these women and you were almost observing like, oh, wow, I don't look anything like them other than that. I have blond hair and like, big boobs. Yeah. And like then you slowly started. You make decisions because you realize half liked a certain, like you said, he likes the girl to be tan, have platinum hair, and then you started to go into that. But I agree with you.


I loved what you said about plastic surgery in your interview on E! Where you said you use it as like your like your looks are like a tool. Yeah.


It's not who you are on the inside. So I think people get so mad when they see other people get plastic surgery like they're cheating at life or something. And it's like looks aren't even that deep. Right. Calm down. Like I want to look a certain way at this point in my life almost like a hobby. It's just like the esthetic I like, like it's just like a tool, you know, to get through, like it's not who you are.


Yeah. And I think we would be looks you can you can put them in a caliber of they matter or they don't matter however you want to look at it if you care about your appearance. I said this with me off camera. We were talking about why do why does no one should on a guy if he has a six pack abs? But if girls are trying to make sure they look great, why are girls getting shamed? If they want to get plastic surgery, they want to work out and get that six pack.


Like we never comment on men and their bodies, but women, it's so fixated, like, why is she getting plastic surgery? Because I want to yeah, I want to look great because I think I'll look great. And you don't have to get a boob job. You don't have to get any plastic surgery. But I want to. And you're saying like you use it as a tool, especially in the field you were in and you're like, I'm thriving and looks in your field matters.


Yeah. Like, why not play up that? But also it has nothing to do with who you are inside and what else you have to offer and your brain. Yeah, exactly. That's they're completely separate. So I think the shaming of I agree with you, I'm kind of really happy that there has been a turn in society recently that women are feeling more open to be able to talk about any type of plastic surgery. And it's not because it used to be shamed.


Yeah, and I'm hoping everyone listening is not shaming people for doing whatever it's your body. You can do whatever the fuck you want to it.


Do you have a relationship with Kendra at all? No, no. OK, and you have a relationship with Bridget?


Yeah, yeah. Bridget and I have always been close. We've always been she always seems like the sweetest. Yeah, she is in the world.


Do you look back and regret anything you did on girls next door.


I mean, when I look back at girls next door, especially the first few seasons, I see myself just coping like I was really stiff and not open and just like a robot and just saying the type of things I felt like Hef would want me to say and things that made him look good. And I almost can't really regret that. I don't know how else I would have coped, like now, you know, in front of the camera for anything.


I'm just myself and I'm more open. And in a way, I'd love to look back and be like, oh, I would have loved to have been myself more, but I mean, I couldn't have there's no way I couldn't have said what I was really thinking or feeling like. I would have been like it would have been cut. It wouldn't have made it wouldn't have made it to the airways. But yeah, I was just super guarded.


I was just super. Nervous about just putting my private life out into the public, which I think a lot of people would be. Yeah, not a lot of people like sit in front of microphones like we're doing right now to chat about the men that they've slept with. I thought that was normal to a lot of people. Yeah, has that was one of my only last questions was like I remember I think you said on Zoome, it's interesting you had said has the relationship you had with have affected your male relationships past that moving forward?


Like are men super insecure? Do they not care? Do they think it's cool? Like what is their relationship to that?


Some have been really insecure, like some have just like raked over the coals for it and just wanted to like, ask a million questions about the sex and every little detail. And at that point, this was like before I wrote my book, so I hadn't even, like, gone back and processed it myself at all. So it was like traumatic for me to relive it through them, like being angry and attacking me for it and attacking me for as if it was something I had done while I was in a relationship with them.


So some guys are just super insecure and can't deal.


And I remember a lot of men. Yeah. And I remember that now, like, if I'm in a relationship and I want to ask my boyfriend about an ex, I always take a step back and I'm like, OK, like, where am I being jealous? And am I asking him about some crazy person he doesn't even want to remember? Because I know what it feels like on the other side. I know what it feels like to be like attacked from a jealous angle.


It's like what is next for you?


Like, what are you just enjoying being a mom? Like what are you working on? Like, what's up? I am enjoying being a mom.


I have a couple of TV projects that are coming out later this year, which I, I'm the annoying guest who's like I have a really exciting project, but I can't tell you anything about it. But secret project. Yeah, there's a couple, there's a couple of cool things.


They're both for TV and it's just one is really confidential that I just participated in. It's not like my thing. And the other thing is more my thing, but I have to wait for the network to talk about it.


OK, I want to see Holly Madison back on TV. I don't really watch girls next door, then read the book again, then listen to this episode again. And then by that time, hopefully, whatever your dick is, I'm giving you beaming eyes. Hopefully we can watch you somewhere because you are not only are you entertaining, but you are now at a point where I think I know so many women look up to you, Holly, and I am so fortunate to have you sitting on this couch with me and having this interview.


Thanks for having me. I'm so excited to do it.


Thank you. Daddy King, that is it for this week's episode, I am honored to have been able to sit down with Holly. I honestly can't believe it. The show, it's so fucking cool to be able to have this ability to not only have amazing conversations with people, but also selfishly meet some of my childhood idols. I think the first one that I was like shitting my fucking pants, no shit, obviously, was Miley Cyrus. And then being able now to sit down with Holly Madison, I'm like, it literally doesn't get better than this.


I hope you guys loved hearing the conversations that we had today. Make sure you guys damn Holly go show her love next week. Mother fuckers. I'm not going to promise yet because I'm in the talks of it, but there is potentially a man that has never come on, call her daddy before coming on next week, OK? It's not official yet. I don't want you guys to chop off my head if it doesn't happen. But I'm almost, I would say 95 percent sure this man is coming on and the drama that is fucking coming your ways and the shit you're probably going to give me shit for having this human being on the show.


I don't care. I promise you, there's a reason and a rhyme to why I want have this man on the show so daddy can you know the motherfucking drill. I will see you fuckers next Wednesday.


Sit, sit, sit, sit.