It's been just over a year since I began talking to people for this podcast, when it began, I was really nervous. I felt really vulnerable opening up to people talking about such a sensitive topic and something that brought up so many difficult feelings for me. Listeners of the show will know that I felt angry, I felt sad. I've laughed and I've cried a lot. And though we've talked at length about grief being a messy personal journey with no linear path, I think the last year and two seasons of open and honest conversations have helped me arrive at a different place.
I still miss my mom every single day, but I recognize my grief more. I know how to handle it a little bit better. This season on Debt Becomes Him. I talk to people who have experienced unimaginable loss. Each of their stories is unique, but as always, there was one commonality. Talking about it is therapy. Often in the aftermath of loss, we enter into autopilots.
Life needs to go on, the washing needs to be done and the children need to go to school. But for those who have lost people during 20-20, these usual voices have been taken away. Morning and lockdown presents a set of totally unique challenges. This is something Bronagh Burke talks about in today's episode of Death Becomes A. She opens up about grieving her husband, Thomas, who died unexpectedly and talks about the differences and processing that grief compared to the coping mechanisms she had after her father's passing in 2015.
Welcome to your episode of Death Becomes Them, and thank you so much for agreeing to sit down and have this conversation. You have twins Appointive, Khaleefa and Adam, they are five. There are four four five nine in June.
I'm June. What date? Twenty on the 13th. Obama said the 13th.
I would have went, oh my God. And actually my mommy and Adam Natha all have the same birthday.
Oh no. Oh wow.
You call me mommy. Mommy, mommy, mommy. When I was stalking you Instagram, I was looking through all your pictures and there's so many from your wedding day, you, yourself and your husband, Thomas, who you called perky. You know, you look so beautiful. And I noticed there was a trend in all your pictures. I think years and dates are very important to you, yourself and Thomas, who you call perky. You met in 2006, six.
You got engaged in twenty. Thirteen. Your father passed away in twenty fifteen. Yeah. Your twins, Adam and Eve were born in twenty sixteen. You got married on the twenty second of September. Twenty eighteen. You bought your forever home in April. Twenty nineteen and then Thomas Sobby passed away in April. Twenty twenty. Yeah. There's a lot there on a lot of life changing stuff. Yeah. Let's start at the very beginning. When you first met Thomas.
I tell us why you don't call him Thomas.
Well just basically we, we, I knew them back and oh God maybe. I'm sure my thirty age now he was Amson Bible days.
So I remember those days I used to stalk off that we'd broken up at the time and he was on people chatting to boys and I'd be furious.
So I just knew you from there and a couple of mutual friends and whatever so much. And I seen his picture and he was wearing a beautiful Handley's hoodie way, a Handley's matching hat. And it was actually something on his bedroom having no IPOs and all along. And I think he he was lovely. Like she was thinking fancy.
I say I bought a home. A bit of that. Yes, yes, yes.
So I fast forward a couple of months anyway. And we were actually at a eighteenth birthday party and I stayed on their way to the store and I was like, oh my God, he's absolutely gorgeous.
But I don't know if anybody at the time or whatever. So I didn't really go over there, but I knew who he was and I knew just friends and stuff like that. And than that I was really out from then and then me and my friend were having a drink one night. And Burki at the time doesn't he don't drink around hangi was massive on the whole. He was playing for dairy at the time and stuff. And you wanted to be a guy.
I wanted to be.
I should have known all that blonde hair and that's town. I wanted to be a drag. And do you know what. Oh God. Crunch's like a magnet. Like I used to sleep on top and is calendar and I have a calendar with NASA calendar calendar and it's every day at heart and all around them all crunchy. High fat. Yeah.
But that's what we did back then. We were seventeen, eighteen then there was no really there wasn't much social media and a hung back and or back anyway. So we were three friends and we went to the car that night and a friend of mine's was all I knew was Boy Burki, he'll give us a left and we're in the tone or whatever. So that was really kind of the instant connection. Then he pulled up, he was driven, not man, and all 17 year olds were driving and he was very quick to pass this test.
So we always constantly bragged about it. I took him a couple of lessons and I passed this task quite quickly. So I that was that. And we went out in the car that night and he was like this. What do you mean, Efram? Or something? The backseat. And this is just one of these when I open the front seat, well, I need a little girl. So she didn't drive. And so I know Boléro.
Come on, Shirley. So we're just chatting and and then it's just me. I'll leave you back the house and whatever. And I said, hi, that's grounds. So when I pulled up and it was like, sure, I'll see you next time or whatever, don't exchange numbers are not hummock. I was just about a month or whatever, so about an hour passed and am I met taxman's. This you want your number. So I was like, oh great verlaine's happy days.
And that's really where I talk often.
Did you know straight away with Thomas that he was the one? I thought I knew instantly. I knew from that photograph back. And I mean even six months prior, the very, very start, I just knew it was all already done. What was it about him? Just a smile. And just as it was just so kamon and caring and just such a gentle soul, you know? And it just it reminded me of my dad. But how did he remind you of your dad just that, Karen Kaminis, just just I really just want to go.
It's so funny that when you are talking about dating that you are so happy. And I can see now, even with those questions, how you're getting emotional is the emotional ness. If that's a correct word, is that still quite a role for you and still quite on the surface?
Absolutely. 100 percent. I don't even think Shox left my body. Yeah, not even a fraction. Like when my daddy passed away, it happened. It took me five years to accept that it was all right.
And then with Thomas, that's just God knows how long it would take you. Let's not go to 2013 yet. You get engaged. Yes. You must have been like, yes, yes, yes. Because I think I was like nearly seven, eight years knee deep in this relationship. And I was like, when are you ever going to do it? Like, come on here and have everybody tortured. All my mates tortured, my mom, I my dad, my whole works actually messed up for myself.
Six months prior to that was me and how we're passionate. Well, I know.
So you're never going to propose to me any of was all I am going to do in your birthday. And I was like, oh no, I've ruined it. So we had married for another two months. And so because you wanted to be a genuine surprise, you don't really want to know. Well, I knew he was a bum, so I just wanted that solid commitment from the time you met in 2006 when he got down on bended knee finally in twenty thirteen.
Yeah. How would you if there was one word to describe your relationship, what words would you say it was solid. Solid.
Do you think the first time you suffered. Real grief was when your father passed away in twenty fifteen, I want a. I have nobody really significant that I lost prior to that. So when I came to be in twenty four, my depths of my grief started there.
Tell us about your father also and your relationship with your father. Well, it was just incredible, to be honest with my dad and my mom. I, you know, our army best friends. We had such a massive rally, not just me, but but I had a huge relationship to it as well.
And without a doubt, I really talk turkey under his wing. And he we were actually all working in the health service Madali just. Idalis Burki and we went and a lot of holidays together, we got a lot of things together, the four of us, like we went to Florida and Spain and like any holidays we went on, we always we went with mom and dad. I was just the way we were when you were just saying there that, you know, your parents were your best friends.
I used to be embarrassed to say that my mom was my best friend because I come in so sad.
But I also had loads of friends that I guess I just had, you know, my priority always was my mommy and daddy are doing things. Mom and dad all grown up over things and they met all the time and, you know, and had massive relationships with problems. But we were always just so solid. What age was your father when he passed 51.
So young, so young, so young, marathon runner like.
Like, I mean, I'm forty three this year, and that's scary for me to think, you know what? Fifty one. My daddy was a massive runner round for running clubs prior to Daddy, but I always been on the sports played football stuff. I got some so healthy, fit, strong, healthy, like ran 30 miles a day before. Wow.
Like, you know, no problems, no underlying health conditions at all whatsoever. Like I was actually going all day my third night during the night, the night before he passed and I was knackered. I mean, Nagamine just bought our first home at this stage and he was like, OK, we're going Movahed.
And I said, Daddy, I'm knackered, accountable after blah, blah. And he's not going, please come over me. Mommy was working and I said, right, I'll come over. So said to working with my dad. I remember. So that was ground went over to him, you know. Welcome back.
I am so glad of it because I had that full year and a half conversation before I went to work and we talked about everything, everything.
Do you think that's a sign that your dad. Part of it may have known, I know sometimes you have to it's only after the fact you can think back and go, did it mean something that you were like, oh, no, Dad, look, I'm tired. I see it whenever. And but he was insistent. Come over, come over, come over. I don't know.
You know, it's hard to say to me because. I think my daddy was just exactly like. There were just too short, you know, and it's just. I don't know, it's hard to say whether he generally thought that this was hard these days.
I know, but in a way, isn't it a blessing that he was insistent all day that he was like, get your ass over here now and spend time with your dad? No, definitely like in a way.
But, you know, maybe maybe because he was so adamant that I was coming over. Tell us what happened.
So basically that morning, I said it was coming off naturally and I was knackered and I went back to the house. So I was going up the stairs, pulled all the blinds, went upstairs and it left-to-right. Not pose a threat or but just I was worth or very, very quickly to go, we need to go get on. You need to go. We need to go. I didn't even get a chance to put, like, Mirjami on the stage.
Was just literally coming off the night. So I was like, what's wrong? What's what's going on here?
Or whatever it is, it doesn't matter. Just get on the car. So I was like, right, will I drive it? It was all, no, I'll drive. Let's just go. So ISIS, what are we going to hospital for? And just kept repeating the same thing. It doesn't we're just going here, sulpice toxic blah blah blah. So instantly I just thought my grandmother just thought an elderly man, you know, he's toxic around them of a diabetic and stuff.
So I thought, it's funny though, where you go, you go almost to the oldest person. Absolutely. Like never would have ever imagined, like ever would imagine. Madore because my mom actually was really sickly a year prior to that. She had complications with heroin and stuff. So Mom had a massive operation for orzo of and I hang out of the two of them. I probably would thought it could have been the mom, you know. But anyway, it definitely dealt with my brother.
So we were driving over the bridge and I see my brother's car driving past while we were driving over. And I looked at Burkin. I says, well, it's not my granddad. What's going on? What's going on? Oh, my God. You know what's so weird? The fact you actually thought we should run the people to fuckin me. Exactly.
It's your grandfather.
I switched my phone off because I was on Nigerian staff and I was actually going over to you, over to my house to grab me, because if I could get hold of my. So we were driving all over and I was all tell me, oh, come on, please tell me, I was begging to please, please. And I just brought out your daddy and I was like, what?
My daddy. And he was like, you know, songs and blah, blah, blah. And I was like, What do you mean something's happened, Daddy? I was like around 30 miles a day before I was with him last night. What do you want about me, Daddy? So we were boys three or four months away then from the hospital and it never said, like, what happened or anything like that on. And it just the trauma.
My trauma. That's where it started. And from then the minute we went and we went resource mom, I was unconsolable on the floor.
Skogland granddaughter. Which was really difficult, really difficult to watch, and I mean, you were there and then the next thing, all these other people came on the same team and I was like, what's going on? Can somebody please talk to me here? And they were like, do you know that my mom, my dad, I. Tolkan Well, noice. And, you know, he took a heart attack. I hate saying that word, oh, God, I hate that word, but that's what it was.
And they were in trying to work with them or whatever. And I was like. My mom is like, do you want to go see him? And I was like, I don't know what they want to see because I had never been on researcher and I have no clue like I was. I don't I generally don't know what I was going on to see because the night before I was speaking to him and chatting to him and joking them and just the normal banter that we would have had compared to what I would see.
And it was just the unimaginable of what happened.
And it was just, you know. Purkey Hold told me, unseen and all employers and everything, it was just really difficult to see a 51 year old man just, you know. Just everything going on and and everybody working on them and stuff like that, and I just ran out there and I was like, I can't do this.
I just can't know I like this is this can't be real life. This generally can't be reliably.
So at that stage and they were talking to the heart hardware, they try and get a dye and stuff, they try and bring it back, but by the time we all got better, then he actually passed away, you know, prior of resource to going up there.
And that's just really where the grief journey started, who was the who was the first person that told you your father sadly passed away? I was a consultant. Believe it or not, whoo hoo, I'm Illinois, who told me, told us all, but I was about let wait, my mom, I was told first and I literally ran through the door like a minute and a half later. And I knew at that stage because my mom, I was unconsolable that I had passed.
And at that then I just completely blacked out. Really. I completely pastorate I, I think it was just the adrenaline and everything going on. Oh, yes, absolutely. And the shock, the trauma, just everything, danwei, everything, you know, just, you know, from 12 hours previous starts picking them to the end. It was just like, you know, we are three years into our journey with grief.
And I will never understand whether I live to 70, 80, 90, 100. I will never understand how it's possible. But I can speak to her, put the phone down, she goes to bed and she doesn't wake up. Right. So I've got my head around the fact I'm never going to understand that. I've accepted that I accept it because I just think it's one of those things I will always ask. I'll never understand why. How were you with the justification for that?
It took me five years. It generally took me five years. I just constantly thought that massive changes happened. Then between all that, you know, Madary is past now six years, but within the space of five years between my daddy and Burki, so much changed in my life very, very quickly through such dreadful sadness in, you know, twenty fifteen.
Losing your father, who is still one of your best friends. I always say I'm still my best friend to then the following year in twenty sixteen, the most amazing thing happens. You give birth to twins. Yeah. A little boy and a little girl. Yeah. Isn't it so funny how one year can be documented as so tragic and heartbreaking, but then you have the the blessing of your twins. How was your grief and the pregnancy and all of that.
Is it still a happy time even though you're going through such tragic loss? We know that we always wanted to be parents, you know, like Hannaway and Burki was going on a trip to what he had to as well. Prior to my daddy passing. They see his friends in San Francisco. And then I was actually one, I thought, with the girls on the set of the same year, all booked prior to what happened to us. And we both said that when we come back that we would try, you know, that we would try and we'll see how things go or whatever.
So we doubt and I found them very, very quick when I heard the judge is a safe space to tell us what you did and how many times, but very quick.
We were quite shocked, to be honest with you, because, you know, you just don't know what way it's going to go. Do you know, walking away so very quickly, we had to get a private scan because our scan that we were going to go for through our own hospitals, I was going to be there fourteen, fifteen weeks and I do a lot of manual handle and work. So I kind of had a tell my work in straight on.
So I was like, no humanity when you get privates out here because I need to work here or whatever.
So that was on. The second of. January 2016, and a lot they JLI raised by massive screen and the lottery swipe straight away and the gear scam is like, oh, we're having twins.
No warning, no warning, no nothing. Just like, oh, here we go. We're having twins. There's Ted in there.
I'm Burki was like, you were what, an accessory prior to that? We were actually about to go on there. And I said, imagine if turtles we were having twins. Swear to God. I said, all this is careful what you wish for.
I don't want anything to do with Jesus. So how are we going to cope or blah, blah, blah and all the and all. But I shook in a very early on. I was like eight or nine weeks, I wouldn't say had a ball, but I was a lot bigger than I, I was, you know, like anyway. So I just I have an uncle and about A.P. that you. Absolutely. That I was carrying once in a couple of minutes, we're like, you're definitely having twins here because they were all mommies before.
And I was always a first time. So I was like, no, no chance. But now this is that. And, you know, twenty fifteen was just absolutely horrendous.
And it was more that me and Burkee cannot talk on the role of looking after my mommy and making sure she was OK.
And I mean, not just me. I mean Burki to you as well.
You have times where I was like, can I ask my wife for something, dinner or whatever? And she was like, no, I'm not going to eat blah blah blah. Like I always had all gone gone. You say to Aaron because you lost Andy before don't exactly our she'll have you said she'll go with you. You know I can't always. What age was your mom when your dad passed. Fifty two.
So young, so young and so all that was that. And so we were always just making sure mommy was OK. And when we find out we're having twins in the scan, Burki was like we came down the stairs and he was like so she me over. I laughed the whole time winners because I was like, oh God, we're having twins. Oh my God, he couldn't cope. Burcu was like, oh my God. Or a higher frequency koplik.
This is just crazy. And then Burki was like, get on the car when we need to go, we need we need to tell people know what's what's going on over and over. So we just lottery drove to my daddy's grave straight away and Burki was like, let's go to school and, you know. My mom was there, she was actually putting flowers on my daddy's grave and we're going over to tell her because we thought she was on the house, but she wasn't.
She was there in the grave and just the three of us were still there. Burki was like shaken Willys we baby photographs and they have tons of blah, blah, blah. But there was a point at the grave where. Name Emami and Burki were just on our knees crying, yeah, because there was so much sadness that year prior to that that we just couldn't believe the joy that it was brought, this and that, only that.
But it was just, you know, I think because. The the pain that I was going through, the Purkey was always by my side, it was always my soulmate, it was always there. And, you know, he was going to look after me, you know, back anyway. So this is not so, you know, there are moments I'll never forget. I almost feel a bit like in this episode we're just talking about the passing of your father.
But sadly, we're not.
And I think to you, because who you know, I mean, like this is before Instagram days and. On like when I'm on Facebook and stuff, I find that talking was really difficult for me to talk about grief. So I sat down on a Friday, every Friday from the Friday midday pass for a full year for 52 weeks. I wrote a post every Friday about how I felt that week and the loss, and I called it the Friday Post.
And everybody knew about the Friday Post and Brunious Friday post. And it was just talking about like, you know, the pain, the loss, the grief that not many people talk about a faint, uncomfortable sometimes to talk to. And that's all right.
But I felt like I had to express myself. I felt like I had to honor really that was probably the most solid thing for me, was to honor him. And, you know, and I doubt that for the for the full year. Little did I know five years later that I'd be doing that for my husband on a Thursday post.
Yes. Because when I asked just unimaginable when I actually messaged you, I think I messaged you on a Thursday.
And that's why I find the things that happen. I message you on the day you're doing your Thursday post. And I'm completely unaware of. And here we are on a Thursday. Yeah. Oh, yes.
Actually, to think of it that way. How funny the way that it's happened. And that's why I think we're meant to have these conversations. I talk to me about Adam and Etha and on the day you and Thomas become parents.
Well, I have to get a section because my too posh to push.
Yeah, I hear you. I accept it on the same. Well, one was had down and the other one was breech.
So automatically they were like, well you can try but you're like, no, no thank you. Absolutely not. Because they were like you could possibly go on for emergency C-section. I was like, no, not happening. That's just a plan. S. So the last appointment we went on, Burki was working that day so he couldn't get out. So it was myself and my mom I. And the consultant goes to us because when I was having the twins, I would have been under a consultant quite a lot.
So she says so is the 28th of June 2016. OK, if you're your date and I meet my mom, I like Joel's the we don't want to say and I in there, we were just like, yes, well, that's it. That's great.
But a lot of that they know that was my mom's birthday. Amazing, though. So, like, what's the chance? She must have been thrilled. Absolutely delighted. Like, delighted. And I was just like that is just such a strong me and my mom have such a strong saying for me that I do, you know, and even that that priority all in me years before, like me, me, that I always sort of carried on.
Twins are and of family lives all a bit Malakai with thanks to his sons.
You know, I can appreciate this. So, you know, I don't know. I just have an uncle that I had an inkling that I was going to have twins.
You have to see them as blessings as your father guided them like you for reason, not on your mom's birthday.
This is that. And grief was still very heavy then. You know, we weren't even a year. Well, we were a year passed. One of the twins actually were born, but not my full pregnancy. We were very happy and grief at that stage. And that was difficult being pregnant at that, because I was looking forward to so much joy happening. And then two years later, in September 2018, you get married to get married. So there's more joy and more celebration.
We were literally on the fastlane. We literally where and we were on generally meanness like we were so grateful for everything that we had because we had so much loss that we were just like, you know what? That's that's do this. That's love our life.
When I said earlier, when I look at your Instagram and there's so many pictures from your wedding, wedding pictures make everyone smile. So when I look at the array of pictures you have, like that was some photo shoot because I'm like, this bitch is not giving me the same picture. She's got like, how many pictures did you take on the day?
And I absolutely love my dress.
You couldn't tell like hashtag coat, but when you look at the pictures initially, they are not sad picture. No, they're happy pictures.
It's when you read the messages that you go, oh, my God, this is this is so sad on this. I've said it before, you know, in other episodes. Oh, you can just say it's sad. We need to think of another word inside. Yeah. Know, it's just so sad that your wedding was the most beautiful day. Your father sadly was not there. He passed with the blessing of the children. It was a wedding you put on hold, you know, but the unimaginable happened.
And prior to all this, because at the time when we booked the way up and stuff like that, I was like, who am I going to say, walk me down the aisle? Like, who is going to do it? And there was no will or perish. I'm going to do it, except my daughter's best friend, Corbel Robert Walkerville.
Robert, because it's not money, but the cost of fraud. I don't know who to call it.
Who was Robert Improvisatory? You don't just give me this one guy named Abraham, but Robert really, really suck after me. Dad, I like very fast and end up with COPD and emphysema and of going on permanent auction very quickly after my dad, I really went on how we met my mom at the hospital. This is like seventy two thousand fifteen after my daddy and I was like, I need you to walk me down the aisle and I need you to be there because you're not going nowhere.
And I need to be there and I need you to do this for me. And we were on the mats of so much tears and so much pain because Robert, he was just like, you know, I would be honored. You know, there was no other person, Palmiotti, who couldn't be there to do it. There was nobody else I was going to ask except him on a talk him every breath that he had. You walk me down that I and I did it.
Robert actually passed away six weeks after Burki. Wow. So three. Key, strong man, I have my life for more than five years, like your father, your soulmate, your husband, and then like a second dad to you who walks down the aisle, it's gone less than six weeks, two months later.
How'd you get your head around that? Or do you you don't you don't see a lot of grief for one person. Grief every day you're going to bring something new to you and someday you'll miss certain people more. I'm presuming you can't be putting the pressure on yourself or feeling guilty because you're doing your best. You have two young children. Absolutely, but don't have their dad. And they they you know, they need their mom. But I would say to you, the fact that you reply to me, the fact that you're sitting here having this conversation with me means that you're surviving on your fighter and that you're strong and you're probably a whole lot stronger than you think, because when you're dealing with stuff, your inner turmoil, you forget that you're still functioning.
You're looking after two other human beings and doing a really good job of it. Because what I've seen them on Instagram, they look happy, they're clean, nice clothes on. You know, there are schools are healthy. You're trying to do everything. And you're probably the last person that you think of and look after on that list of people.
And I think it's just drowned out my words, just like you will be saying to me, do this, do that. Come on, that's gold. You know, like in a way, I'm made out to you as well where they be like, come on, let's go. That's their Cayre. Both of them are very gettable. Go type of person. Talk to me now about the biggest tragedy, the twenty third of April. Twenty, twenty.
Talk us through in your mind that normal day as it was. Well, we were on six weeks a lockdown at this stage, so we were petrified because nobody knew, you know, we were locked down and dairy from I think it was like a 12th or 13th March at this stage. So we were petrified. We didn't know what was going to happen. We started obviously, of course, everybody was isolated from their families and stuff like that.
And actually them six weeks I was working Najid a Burki was working Dajarra just the only way we could operate because we don't want to ask anybody to hospitals. So it's also high risk as well.
And it was yeah, it was just it was just really difficult, you know, like in a way. But we threw them six weeks. We made things fun. We exercise exercise would have been a massive part of our lives. Burki would have played football for dairy and pay Irish League, and it was a very well known footballer anyway. So exercise was always a massive part of ours. So. That day on the 29th April, we were out and about that morning when I got groceries and stuff and Burki was off and I was off that day, we were both off and it was great.
We got to spend the time. We cholla and still forgot we're exercising.
I went to walk. I came back and Burki was like, well, going to get in the bike because he loves his bike and at the time obviously couldn't play football or anything like that and stuff like I want to go out of cycle and stuff and do but I exercise or whatever. So I was like right ok sure. Wait until I come back on that. So that was ground on Beketov. He went out and he went a cycle not too far.
Couple of miles. Just. No, no, major. Mainzer staff look at and he. Came back.
And, you know, it was just like as you always do in your exercise, you're sweating your new and stuff like that, and he was going upstairs to get changed and he was just telling me, God, I don't feel well after that and I just do not. And he says, no, these just don't fit well at all. But Burki would have been like that when he's exercising because he always put himself to that point to exercise. He just pushed and pushed and pushed himself.
So that was a natural thing to Albrecht after that there, you know, stuff like that. So naturally that doesn't say in alarm to there's no alarm bells at all whatsoever.
I was like, there's a cup of water.
Capalaba based on your age, you know, jelly babies for the sugar rush.
So that was that Unidad and he says, I'm Grano, I'm going to go out and get a shower or whatever. So I says, Grant.
So he I don't cook. So Bergomi that that her prior to he left. So I says I'll put you on a ride or whatever. If it were just the kitchen table we were on that, that was our forever home. We were on that we would have it would have been on that house a year to the day after Burkee passed the twenty fourth.
And it came back down again, and he was just like a her chatting away, I still forgot and. Just was like. You just said that again, after every five months after I don't feel alien. Do you really know if he will signal? I just really don't feel well, you know, so he walked on the Laughner and he was like, I don't feel well, Bernet on ISIS. Do you want me to an ambulance or Sean here?
And he was like, no, all YSL, Pavlin ground or whatever. So my mom was a nurse. So I instantly I rang my mom and I was like, Mom? He's saying he's not well here.
And I was like, right, OK. And then. He came back under the kitchen again, we're out of money for dinner and I just sat on a sofa, your background or whatever, and I says, I'm all right, unground. It's like I'm grand, I'm OK, and I was like, right, OK. And I was on the phone with mom and I was all wrong, and she was in his own way home and stuff like that.
I was like, well, just like the stage needs. And I turned around and this is Burki. Are you all right now? And it's like I am ground, ground and stuff. Forgot. I won't, he said, I am ground, ground, I just turned away. And that's just where it happened. Know, that's where everything escalated and that's where the trauma really. Happened and. You know. The tragic on the most unimaginable thing happened.
Can I ask you what happened?
He. Talk like what I thought was maybe a turn on the sofa and instantly I was like on the phone, my mom and I was like, you need to come down here. You need come down here. You don't need to come down here. At this stage. I don't know what was going on, but it happened so quick. I mean, a flick of a light switch. It happened to a point where it was the next stage were Adam.
Eve, were there they. We're so brave that night, you know, and they were, you know, rolled into the straight day, you know, showed help and stuff and, you know, and and that. And then I had to get off the phone about me very quickly. And I have rung the ambulance cause we lived in a new estate to Israel, you know, like a Newbold estate. They were finding it really difficult to find our address.
So, you know.
Burkey was unresponsive very, very quickly. Very quickly, and he cannot was. Help me out as much as they could, while if I was wrong on the straight shirt and help and I told her if I run over across the street and bang in the neighbor's dogs, we only had one neighbor. Then we were down in the bottom of it and we were the first people to move on to the states. We only had one neighbor and four at the time, Adam and Eve.
There were three. They weren't even for to stage guys. They were babies, literally babies. And, you know, I was working on Burki and they were the ones who were trying their best to get down. And there was just so much trauma, so much sadness, so much pain, you know. But, you know, it wasn't pronounced dead until we got there, but I knew you passed out, did you?
I, I ordered. What made you think that? I just know I just knew that this was going to be. You know what it was, I know that. That I couldn't save even. When I knew I tried my best, well, you did try, you know, and even afterwards, talking to a paramedic, he actually said to me, Do you know? You tried your best and we can see that and you know, you know, everything you do on your dad as best as you could, but that doesn't help my pain or loss or or anything like that, you know, and it's just difficult that.
Just the whole thing is just. Unimaginable. You know, if is out on the street, Adam's trying to help you, you're physically resuscitating your husband to try and keep him alive.
Are you talking to him, are you coherent in what's going on? I am showing insurance and I don't.
Come on, come on, come on, come on. What are you doing? Come on. Come on. Not just me, Adam.
To Israel, because he stood by my side the whole time. You stood by my side. But I was just I was mindful of hunta, so I was like, Ronnie, come on, help as loud as you could and, you know, and stuff like that. But, you know. I was doing 14 minutes of CPR and Berkeley, but the last man on the half, my mom came out and took over.
Which was really difficult because. Because my mom had to Israel, so you can imagine how much of a strong woman that she was. You know, and stuff like that.
But but also she's your mother. She has your her priority as well. So she wants to make sure that you're OK. So she's going to take over doing it for you because you're a child.
And she was just like, come on Burkean. And my mom always called Burguiere here. Always she always is like, you are my hero, blah, blah, blah. And she when she was she was like, come on, you're my hero and angel and stuff like that. And, you know, this is really difficult. The ambulances don't come out of for Dudko to the neighbor's house and stuff like that, and, you know, it just escalated from there, you know, the next thing I know is that they were working on the kitchen and you to being on an ambulance, dipping back and resource again.
Those flashbacks, your father, it's just the trauma said it it's just unimaginable in the space of those five years, five years, like like I never, ever, ever thought my life is going to be like this.
And Thomas was twenty nine. Twenty nine. So young. So young, like literally.
You know, three months off his 30th birthday, you know, we have massive plans, you know, we always wear like have the ones on our on our late 20s. We were gonna love life in her 30s, Wolf, VMT. We were planning all these holidays and and going away and doing everything we could just because we were so thankful for every day that we had our minds always play tricks on us and they make us overthink situations and analyze situations.
Did you at any point? After all of what happened, did you think to yourself from the time he came home and he said, Oh, I feel a bit unwell, did you play in your mind if only we had acted, but then he was fine. You had the walsch, we had the jelly babies, because sometimes our minds can play tricks and that can make us overthink situations. And I should have done that and I could have done that.
I think because everything happened so quick. And because it happened instantly, I conceived, I could also have saved him. There was absolutely no chance and way I could ever you know, I dug I know that I dug my best and I know that my mom made her best. And we both tried as much as we could. But as in, you know, I'm saying I'm grand and, you know, and the Gaoli babies and stuff like out there was none alarm me at that stage that things were going to escalate the way they dug.
There was no signs of anything at all whatsoever. That was a natural thing with herky jerky. Always pushed himself with exercise to the limits was just the way to. And he was a warrior, know. It was just that was the type of person he was. And he always pushed the Islamic, you know, so none was Allama me at that stage to say, right, OK, you know, something's wrong. You need you need to go here.
How did you explain this to the children over what had happened and where their dad was?
So obviously the trauma side of things in being a resource and stuff. Look at my body, Granton, the physical shock. And I mean, I couldn't find my arms, my legs, nothin, you know.
There are moments and resource being in the family room. I remember what people were saying to me. But I felt like. I felt like I was cool, too. I felt like my body was a shot down and I felt like I was about to go. I. I never had that feeling before, I never had that shot, I have shaken my daddy, but I never had that feeling on my body before, you know, like in a way.
So people were like, I just remember being talk to a wheelchair and stuff. I remember me, my friends in the room. Come on, come on, come on. And they were physically in a really hot I couldn't feel if I couldn't feel a thing. The trauma and the shock and my like I remember being in an ambulance way, the the paramedic. And I was like, I can't find my body. But when he was so calm, it was like, your body's in shock.
Your own trauma here, you're going to be OK. And I think I needed that. They say that they need to think, OK, but. You know. That was. Just difficult. So it was and then, you know, I never slept. For three nights afterwards, I mean, not one wink of sleep, not one, but and I knew that Adam and Eve were back at my house and that are all because my friends have came down.
Some of my friends have calmed down, some of them are in the hospital, and some of them were on the house and they were watching at home. And I felt and I knew how had to have that conversation with them the next morning. And the mommy was like, no, I was laying on the back of a man like this in the middle of the night. And she was like, you really need to sleep. You need to have even an hour.
Come on. And I couldn't I satyal I just couldn't believe what was happening. And when I the next morning.
Came out of their Pompeii's is naturalized. Do they come straight on the Birkerts room and.
I just had a better idea when he set them down one by one and say it or say it to Yeller, and I chose the option of telling them separately because I felt like if I told them both at the exact same time, maybe they wouldn't digest it as much as three year olds. So I could have that conversation or my own first with Adam. And then I had it on my own and with my mom. I went downstairs and I and it was just really difficult, they say, in a three year old's language.
Do you know? And. Yeah, I was just basically, you know, I don't know till the day that I have gone to heaven and the daddy had a sore heart and that he had to be all angels and stuff like that, actually, Adam said to me straight away from the pack, you know. Yeah. And I was like. I saw it and I thought I was just like. You know, anger talk over there where the Lord was born, not in the not nothing to do with Adam, but the fact that I was like, this is not right.
This shouldn't be happening. You know, it shouldn't be by whim. It should be down here with me and stuff like that. And, you know, I was just really difficult. This Adam really, really was so young, so young. They were three. Like you said, daddy died of a sore heart.
What was it exactly that Thomas passed of so Thomas passive thrombosis of the heart. So basically, it was a clot that caused his heart. I and then you're obviously thinking your father a heart issue as well in 2015 and now this in 2020, you've so much.
So what do you say to me saying Heartattack, you just can't say the word that word because it's a trigger for you, because there's so much trauma attached to so much trauma, you know, and I've had people.
Say to me afterwards, what did your daddy day or what day of work before, and I cannot physically, if I need to say to somebody fisty face or whatever, I would say, but. If somebody messaged me or whatever, I can't I can't go there, I can't because I don't want to know the story. Do you know that, Kenoi when we lost our mom, our mom passed a sudden death syndrome.
My sister had to resuscitate her and my sister was tried and the ambulance came, which like you. My sister actually said that she was happy it was Horen mom, OK, together? Yeah. Did you find. You're happy it was you that was there with him doing it, or are you at that point now where you can say you're glad it was you that was there with you and him together? Still, I think it's a mixture, to be honest.
I think it's. Out of antibody in the world, I want to be the person to try and save him, but at the same time to. There's so much trauma. So much pain, so much sadness. You know, I had the most. Fairy tale, amazing life that I thought I had with the most shattering and. Talk me through the funeral. The funeral was extremely difficult because we were covid we were on lockdown. Oh, my goodness, I've completely forgotten during all of this tragedy.
Yes, you have. Yes, you have the other layer of covered. But also we said talking about the twenty third of April and you said the six weeks previous to that you would spend so much time together, thought that you had those six weeks. So intense. Yes. Just together. Like amazing to have had that time with no distractions. No distractions at all. Actually I actually said at my Thursday post this week about us and about the four weeks or the six weeks and stuff I got.
And, you know, and but. As far as like, you know, obviously Burki doesn't pass Wolf covid, but we are one of the the covid Furnival's and and stuff like that.
And that was really, really, really difficult.
Talk to me about a KOVR-TV funeral and how that actually works.
Well, at the time, we were only allowed Taman the chapel. So it was Tamme people only we.
You know, the Furnivall guys tried as best as they could they? But will the current restrictions and stuff was really difficult, like we never got the love Burki, you know, everything was you know, it was his coffin was wheeled and and stuff. Forgotten that as a you know, I always think back within moments of my dad's funeral and wake and stuff like that where my dad was like like a conveyor belt. It was like a sea of people were out and talk to daddy.
And, you know, obviously you're talking to for 2015 here. So there's no, no, no, no, not so people shaking hands and you're hugging and and stuff like that.
And it's what we call the good ole Irish feel good old Irish Irish people are doing as we like with the wake's. And it's a massive sendoff and a celebration of that person's life. Yeah, I'm like Wee wee Medaris was very medad. I had a really like massive hernia and stuff like that, I mean jam packed and stuff. So it was very definite day, Purkis Purkis. But in some ways, you know, Purkis was you know, it was difficult because it only had 10 people on.
So a lot is of course, a lot of his friends, his family never got the actual service. They were standing I'd and their phones watching it. You know, there was no speakers and one for them. You know, even with Coffin being Weland and stuff like that. I remember their moments of like Burki was one of the six man who Lord McGlade are in the ground who walked them for that last final journey on a shoulder. So that was difficult.
But at the same time, you know, it was more. And as in, you know, the house was more, maybe closer on side and, you know, I think because of Barq's passing and being twenty nine and being so sudden and because we were in so much depths of pain and loss and sadness that happened, that maybe smaller people onside was probably the way he would have wanted it.
You're also trying to find the blessings, aren't you? Absolutely. I think that's a really good attitude to have because you could be so fucking angry. Yeah, definitely. You must have been at some point or anger attacks.
I would say the main trigger for me as anger, I really I was prior to all this five years, Wolf, my dad, you know, there was key moments where. Some very dark moments, too, as well, with Burki handled and and Wolf may and just be in their wealth, anger and streaks of anger. And that's a humongous for mainly because there's no. And there never will be no acceptance for me, for Burki staff, definitely not.
You know, you're trying to get your head around the fact your father is 51, you know, running marathons. He's so healthy, we kind of go, OK.
Fifty one, even though still ridiculous. Absolutely cut to twenty nine. That's just unimaginable. And now you're clutching at straws. You're clutching at air and you and your soul mate. Yeah. The love of your life. The father of your children. Yeah.
You know you. You almost think if there's a God out there, why, why, why you must have asked why so many times and I just felt that why why me?
Why give me so much pain? You know, why you give me so much pain, a space of five years, but give me so much joy as well. And you know why tech. A good one. The good guys away from Adam. Do you know they adore their daddy? They love him.
He was such a hands on daddy and I think it was because, you know.
We crave so much, they have Adam and Eve and Adam and Eve were here, we cherished every single moment that we have with them, you know.
Do you think it's a blessing? They were so young as three years old when Thomas took at home, you know, and you're resuscitating them.
And if without banging on doors that they're so young that they won't carry it with them, they won't carry the trauma with them, I think to two things, probably because a lot of people say to me, they're resilient, they'll be OK, blah, blah, blah, but they're not dealing with it every day. I have humongous trauma. We and Eve a humongous trauma with them. They still relive that moment very clearly. And you know, such as what?
When you say they they you know, they have those moments clearly. Are they upset or they sad?
They Maxtor are be very much very black and white. OK, you know, they're Maulers Day. We were going to my mom's house and there was now once and for all this. And Adam said to me. He doesn't have a ton of blue flashing lights and just an ambulance driving for all businesses, that's the ambulance made out of him and I was like, no, no, no, no, no.
That's not the normal. This is no, ma'am. That's the ambulance at eight Medidata. And like, I was like, right, OK, what do you say to someone so young who, you know, they're very black and white and, you know, and and that said, you know, I mean, I'm not a parent, but I can imagine what you have been doing is you're trying to be as honest as you can.
Yeah. You can be honest as you can, but you want to protect them at the same time, you know, like in a way. But, you know, and it's just try and they I feel like I am not sure they have armored gear on me every day. And I feel like I'm going out there every single day when you are, because each day to get up is a battle.
It's a battle. And if I didn't have. Felt I don't know where I would be, and I generally don't it's not even been a year for you. You're still struggling with the whys. So you're coming up to the first anniversary.
And we're still in a pandemic that's been resolved through the fire of, you know, like we're the same way it was last year while the furnivall on the way and stuff like it was so all natural, really know you were calling people. Some people were coming on under the wake and the funeral, the wake. Morsell with masks on, gloves on. They had to protect themselves. But in the same time, too, you were like, this is just not this is just not natural.
This is just not the way things are be. Or I had a few people say to me, I really, really, really want to hogy but I can't. I know. And I'm standing there beside my husband Broken-Hearted Broken-Hearted and they're the things that you don't want to hear because you are not daps your luminesce. How has this and the pandemic in the last year. With the restrictions and you were saying people are even afraid to hug you, how has that affected your grief?
Hugely, because I've isolated myself more because I've had a deal. I've got my own support bubble.
And yes, I've got amazing friends and family and a solid bunch of guards behind my seven best friends who I absolutely adore, who are solid, solid people behind me.
But it's been really difficult because know, I am not doing the things that I would have done after my dad.
I haven't met probably a half of the people who I've met prior to me today because, you know, I haven't met these people because you're isolating yourself and you're not out and about and you're not seeing people as much, you know, and stuff like that. So that's really difficult. But you know what? It's actually like a new normal for me, which is kind of scary at times because I've isolated myself that we but more which in ways it can be a good sign because you're, you know.
You're concerned sometimes in your own grief that you don't want anybody else to feel your pain, but at the same time it can be difficult because you're like you just want people around you. So what are Suhad? Are you religious? No.
OK, we move on to the next question. I say I'm spiritual, right? But I wouldn't say in religious and I haven't. Maybe maybe that's. Hypocritical for me to say, because I get married at a chapel. I don't think it's hypocritical. I think I'm Catholic. I'm also a gay man. I go to communion and christenings. I go to weddings.
You know, I also go to them things them as me. But I'll not say Hummes are Jeanmaire or not God. I'll just kind of stand there. And just because the anger tecs over me actually.
So even during all of it, you know, when we're thomasin resuscitating. Did you pray then.
No, no, no, definitely not. Yeah. Because I was like, why. Yeah. You're still so angry. You talk to me about being spiritual and. Probably signs and stuff. I'm yeah, listen, I am quite skeptical when it comes to science and then only recently before Mother's Day. So in March, because this is going out in April, yes, it's March again, and it was the day before Mother's Day and I was feeling super emotional.
I could feel it coming on. And I found a feather in our waiting room on the carpet.
And I was like, yeah, just cause, you know, I kind of thought it's a way out of horror.
And then on Mother's Day, all this was making me pancakes, but he fucking set off the fire alarms and the whole house.
And I'm like, Jesus. And I thought you out, you know. But we were laughing. I cried earlier. Yeah. So now I'm thinking with signs. I'm like, you know what? Yeah. So what has been your experience with signs? And you're thinking obviously from your father. Yeah. And Thomas. Yeah. I think probably the main sign was me was was the hugest sign that anybody could have was getting the home that I'm on now.
OK, because Burkey passed and what we, what I thought was our forever home. But I was like. Five, six miles away from family and friends, I know it doesn't sound a lot, but. When you're from a small town in the area, that's that's that's a long way to be that I need to be back beside my mom. I am what needed to be back where where it all began, where we burki would have met and said, just my family in general.
So it was the day of Purkis 30th birthday and the 22nd of July last year. And we have a caravan there in Donegal. So I just can't talk myself off the majority of the summer and just wanted to be alone and stuff like that. And I was absolutely unconsolable out. I wanted everybody away. My I was rolling around looking after the ones and I just lay in that caravan cryin for ayash.
Now wouldn't let me look at my mom. I was very much like Altec them and it's OK and stuff like that. And I had sold our family home very quickly after Burki Passan because I couldn't even stand. And the kitchen, if I can even stand in the kitchen, it was very and extremely traumatic for us. And I know Burki would have been saying. That's go camping here, move camping here. That's not an option. And, you know, and stuff like that, we mean Burki actually met my mom and dad's family home where they were for 13 years.
The opportunity left me off in the backyard on that house. So where that was, that house meant a lot of girls. And for the first few years, remember, we were going to tell her we were on that highway.
So, Amanda. And so that was that, and we as I said, I was I was really was really bad. They and my grandmother and my grandma actually rang me that my momma that night was like, oh, there's a hoist coming up beside us.
Our neighbors came to the door to say that the shower in the house just didn't happen, know, blah, blah, blah. And I was like jumped on the sofa and I was like, what? I was like, oh, my God. So the estate agent, I just emailed Straight and fairness, she actually emailed me back at a quarter to 9:00 at night and was like, yeah, we can get you of you in the bar or whatever.
And I was like. I need to go see this house, I have a date, blah, blah, blah, so the next day I come and I go and see the house and it was the same ground and ground. This it was where I was and stuff.
And we were going up the stairs. Maybe Momani view the house and we were out of his room. I know I looked out the window and it was the house that we loved then was out our window.
Wow. Like I could see my family home from my bedroom window.
So it's kind of a safe feeling, isn't it? And it was a if I felt safe, that is exactly what I felt safe and I felt secure.
Even Mommy were. And tears crying because the people who I bought the house off knew my situation and knew the story and stuff like that, and I was just my mom and all this has to be at this and know whatever, get the house and you've got to celebrate that night and stuff like that.
And now she doesn't wait around, you know, and she was opening the purse, will pay cash.
And I was just a kid that was probably the most solid sign I've had where, you know, I'd never celebrate a Birkerts 30th birthday or not on the card because I couldn't I was just and still in so much pain and sadness where that was just not even an option. So to me, it was just the same where he was just saying to me, well, you know, this is where you're going to feel safe now. And that was the most and probably us to this day, the biggest sign I've had in life changing and life changing.
About your moment, about your friends and family. Just you're not on your own. No way now. Well, Thomas always stayed twenty nine. Or will he age as you age with you?
I think maybe I want to stay twenty nine forever.
And I am thirty two looking twenty nine if I can. No, I feel like you know, whenever that time may come that we are reunited that he better be in old age. But he'll always.
B, that he will always be that twenty 29 year old Amy. You're saying you were spiritual? Mm hmm. Where is Thomas, what are you doing? Generally. I think he's in a lot of pain. Do you know why? Because I know his time wasn't really right and I know he didn't want to go. And I know that Artemesia does not want the out three years of age. So I know that. He is probably in much pain, as I am not the answer I was expecting.
It's what you're saying to me. It's like, oh my God, of course, you're totally right. But it's so funny how other people ask that question saying, you know, they're happy, they're not in pain anymore, you know, the wherever they are, but they're content. And you're actually saying no, because what happened was so unfair. He wants to be with us.
Probably because it's so sudden. So raw. Yeah.
And so I hear it's not even a year, but, you know. I think that he. Well, as as much as I am. We said before, I think was when we interviewed. Probably Rachel Corrie and your good friend Lisa Cahoon for season two is when you think of the word widow. Yeah, I used to always think, oh well don't say that to me, is that you always think of someone much, much, much, much older.
Mom was only fifty one. Yeah. So when I say the word. Widow, are you like, I hate that word. I hit that even her voice when I hated it, I absolutely hated it because I know how much my I hated that. And, you know, after when you're sort of finance and stuff like that, like when you go down and you're closing bank accounts and stuff like that, it's just straight on a wall. And that's just the most painful thing they say because you want to be a to do, you know what I mean?
It's just what just. It's just. That's just the rawness of it, probably because it's just reminds me of what has happened in your life, you must find with your grief that's all bleeding into one know, even though you had up five years and the blessings of the children and getting married.
But I know that that's a grief. You know, once I was helped with this, even though the suddenness and the trauma and stuff like that, I know grief and I know pain.
I know this pain is completely different to my dad. But I know this journey and I know the pain and I know the loss. Do you find talking about Thomas and talking about your grief helps hugely.
And I know sometimes that might make people uncomfortable. Why do you think people are uncomfortable talking about it?
I think it's probably the rawness of it and bringing it back to the surface that maybe some people just find it. It's too hard to speak about or don't want to, you know, upset maybe myself or somebody else or something like that. You know, I know I've been in moments where, you know, were seven of my best friends have lost, like, parents and and stuff like that, too, as well, that, you know, you say things sometimes and it may be uncomfortable to talk about and stuff.
So, you know, I think grief as a whole, you know, it really needs to be like your podcast. Amazing, because talking as therapy, as you say, and it's just great they speak about that because it needs to be spoke about and, you know, and it's OK to honor them and it's OK to be sad and it's OK to laugh at the exact same time. So tell me I can ask you now, why have you called them Burki?
Probably his name was Thomas.
But I know is this just because I know him is Burki. And you know, when we first met them, in a way it was like, what's the crack burki? You know, like Hanaway. So I just stop from there and like I remember a couple of teams of. He was doing the on a follow on Thomas Bluebonnets, don't call me that. So I assume your mother does when you're in trouble. How do you find with the vaccine out there restrictions, hopefully loosening up for us and we can get back to some sort of normality, whatever normal life is?
Is that fearful for you because you've almost been so cocooned?
Definitely. Like my actually an thing struck at me, too, as well. In December to of twenty twenty were my both grandparents, XIKAR, Kovik, they're both 81, but they both survived it.
And at that age they are so strong and they're actually Noyan Easter Sunday, they'll be actually married 60 years.
Get them to send me a message of how they've done that.
Right. I know we all need to know. Definitely. I think that I am about fearful of when covid ever restrictions ever left and stuff like that, because I all I've known for 10 months while grieving the loss of Burki as majority of being isolated. Yeah. So that's going to be really difficult of, you know, being written about more publicly and stuff like acting and trying day. Can at. Rebuild my life again, therapy. Are you a fan of therapy, have you been to therapy, do you recommend it?
Well, I'm just about to start my next month. OK, yeah, so we'll see how it goes. But I think it's just because I really need to get to the root of the trauma. The three most significant man in my life, Orgel, are gone, hmm. Down five years.
How do you take care of yourself? How do you take care of Bronagh and make sure she's OK?
I don't leave myself to the bottom of why every single day because I have two little children relying on me and they need their mommy. They also need me. They be there for them.
As much as it's painful that, you know, the Purkis not here, but it's even more difficult to be a sole parent, did decisions on your own, like Abam there a couple of months ago, started wearing glasses? That was a huge thing for us because he looks so cute with the glasses.
I told him because we were so shocked because we were actually thought that if I needed glasses. So when they said I needed glasses and I mean full time know, we need a really strong lens, we were like, what kids flip it for you? I couldn't believe it. It was Adam, you know, and stuff like that. Like it's Adam's day point where he has to wear soccer glasses when he's playing football, he needs glasses that much.
So it was just there and things were just like gold. You know, their family moments where you're packing the glasses yourself.
What has helped you exercise? Probably OK, I won't be doing that.
Can you see something I can relate to so I can, you know, just. Oh, really? Not really, no. Well, Dimmeys just walking and getting the music on.
Thank you so much for having this conversation yesterday.
And I think the fact that you're here, you're at this table with me with this massive glass partition, but we're still you know and you're willing to have the conversation is I think you a whole lot stronger than you actually think.
And I would say your friends and family would agree with me on all of that.
And thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Broner has demonstrated an incredible amount of strength, not only has she persevered and continued being an incredible mother to her children, Adam and Eve, she's also proactively changed her circumstances, move closer to her family and is laying the foundation for a solid future.
Next week, I talk to Sarah Battle, Sarah talks to me about her sister Kate's passing and how the grief she endured changed her outlook on life.
I think everybody has a story to tell. And, you know, as you said, talking is is terribly and I find me talking to a complete stranger actually helps me better than talking to somebody really close to me in a way. I think when I was talking to a close friend, I had to explain that I am against the genocide thing because maybe they haven't experienced it or that you are you're pushing yourself into such a vulnerable spot. And sometimes I hear people saying, oh, I'm so sorry, a company that happened to you.
I get really uncomfortable with that.