When I started this podcast last year, it was an exploration of my own grief, I had lost my mum, my best friend, and I couldn't imagine my life without her.

I certainly had all these feelings of sadness, anger, confusion and guilt.

I needed to understand them. So I turned to my friends and people I knew who had been through a similar experience. It was eye opening. We cried. We laughed, we processed. That podcast helped more people than I could have imagined. I've been inundated with messages and connected with hundreds of people who have lost loved ones and realized their experiences needed to be shared. There are still stories that need to be told this season on Death Becomes Them.

I meet people who have lost siblings, spouses, parents and children, though the experiences differ. One thing remains consistent. Talking about it is therapy. On today's episode, Mirana laughs when she tells me about her mom encouraging her to pursue a career in radio at the age of 20, she didn't think she had the contacts or background to succeed in such a competitive industry. But our mom was her champion. She encouraged her, supported her and gave her the confidence to land.

Her first radio gig at just 21 Married opens up to me about the devastation she felt when her mom passed on the eve of her 21st birthday. And despite the sadness, she thrived thanks to the upbringing her mother had given her.

Today, I am joined by Moray's Rhodian, I've got two bones to pick, quit married wrong and I said this on Instagram. Oh yeah, you're one of the reasons I don't Dancing with the Stars.

Yeah. And aren't you glad you did Dancing with the Stars? I was approached for this family when I was like, oh, not really sure. This is kind of for us.

So I was like, no, we'll pass on that. And then the girls told me, Mom, our mom was obsessed with Ferris family and you were doing the Christmas special. We met total shows of ourselves. You didn't.

But I think that was one that was one of the shows and one the Times in life. I said, life is so short, I'm now going to say yes to more opportunities and see what happens. I think I've gained a friend in you. I think you're fabulous. That was a very I think people expected us to be more screamy than we were.

I don't think anybody and I'm going to include myself in this, anyone from the production team thought that you had the fight in you that you show that day.

I mean, we were saying, you know, early on the morning, oh, it's going to be such a pity to lose them so early in the show because they're so much fun. But look, that's the way it goes.

And then the first race happened and, you know, I was watching it in the truck so we can see all of the screens is about eight screens. So you can see where the race is and where this family are with our family are. And, you know, to know where you were like, get out of my way.

I'm not losing. I was and you didn't.

And it was hilarious and brilliant.

And just that you have this dichotomy that you're going I'm not going out now.

Thing about me is I'm not competitive at all. I don't I'm not actively competitive. I was going to say you're not actively competitive. But at the same time, that day in you, you said, I'm not losing now.

No, because I think I'm going to give a hundred and fifty percent when my time's up, the time's up. And I'm not one of those people that if someone else does better or wins, I'm happy for them because I always think, well, you deserve it.

This is your time. Yes. Yes. I think I enjoyed this more Dancing with the Stars.

And I just spoke about you because we both have Joanne Byrne in common and we see Joanne Reseat. I went Marnie said, come in. You I think you've come to visit. You were doing that.

You danced dance. Our first for a show with Jon Plascencia. Yes. Champion that you were ultimately about.

Oh, it's so good to be back. I'm in the water room and you're saying hi to everyone.

And I said to her, oh, wait, wait, wait, just a kick in. And you were like, it should have kicked in, but now it's not kicked in.

That is one of the hardest shows are things I had ever done in my nineteen career working in television.

It is. And it was definitely the hardest thing I've ever done. And I was obviously a bit mad, mad hormones. Like I just had a baby. I just had my third baby and I got the phone call. And stupidly, I thought Larry boss was calling to ask me to screen test, be presenter.

I was like, why are you on here? Bailable?

He said, So how do you feel about Fox trotting in January? And I'm sorry, I you're not you're not asking me to screen test for presentencing. No, no, no.

We've got we've got the presenter and I was like, awkward. And I just had no straight away. I said, I have a six week old baby in the back of the car right now.

And he's like, I'll think about it. It'll be good for you. And you don't have an actual day job right now like you have had previously. So a bit of shade as well through day, like, thanks a million, Larry. And I honestly put it out of my mind and that nice. I you know, that that like twenty minutes at night where you start talking to your husband, like, after all the madness of the day, we were watching the nine o'clock news sexy, you know, and I said, oh, you know who rang me today?

Larry boss rang me today and said, would I be interested in throw my name in for Dancing with the Stars? And he's like, brilliant.

Yeah, he was all go straight away.

And I'm there with, like, gigantic breast feeding boobs that are throbbing, like, you know, running for the money, selling the scene. I know.

And I said I can't do it. And he said he was just course he can be great. You've gone on. I've been banging on about wanting to get back into shape. This is definitely going to do for you. And you love the show. And I was like, OK, anyway, I thought about it for a few more weeks. And then I rang and said, yeah. And then I remember the day I signed the contracts and I had I was feeding her money, going on doing what I'm doing.

So anyway, look, it worked out and it was definitely the hardest thing I've ever done.

And like I worked like I worked on the radio show like five days a week, three hours of live radio with a really, really small team. And like that was really, really hard, but really rewarding. And then this was really, really hard, but really rewarding. Like I did all the crying and stuff during this.

But I found it myself because exhausting that time of year is always tough for me because I always say me for us as a family. December yeah. Is Mom's birthday Christmas. Mum was obsessed with Christmas.

Like when we start getting too old, Suzanne. Wouldn't come to us anymore, but mom would still put my presence in the exact same place, you know, when I was a child, even though I've been living in London and have my own career. And then mum's anniversary is in February. But when I commit to anything, I like to kind of open all the doors to my life.

Yeah, but I did find that experience so emotional because you're so vulnerable. And I was recording first season of this whilst doing Dancing with the Stars.

So I would do an episode of this and I would go back and I would be so mentally emotional and that I'm trying to learn the cha cha cha, which is one of the hardest dances ever, ever.

So like it was full on. I avoided that one.

That's why I think I won. I never got it in my run. That's why that's that's why I won and why you didn't.

I never got a chance to do the cha cha cha cha cha cha. So you obviously were crowned the winner of the show you modulations. Did you think of your mom during all of that? Because that was such a huge achievement and you must have been thinking, I wish she was here.

Oh, like I have thought that so many times since Mom passed away. But today is my mom's birthday. Yes.

And when I approached you about doing it, you said to me, I think you said to me last year, you do the show.

And then, of course, I was back on the DMZ and I sent you the days and we said, we'll do Wednesday at half past two.

And then you said to me, oh, my God, just so you know, today is my mom's birthday. What are the chances of me giving you those days, not knowing when your mom's birthday is? I think it's a real sign that maybe we're supposed to be having this conversation on her birthday.

I totally believe in signs. And I think, you know, and I've read this is probably an Oprah book or whatever, but, you know, life speaks to you in whispers. And if you don't listen to the whispers, life will slap you in the face. And I listen to the whispers and I've been listening to them for about ten years and I go to whispers, good whispers and bad whispers, you know, go I need to.

But you can learn a lesson from the bad whispers You can. But today. Yeah, today is my mom's birthday. So this nice. Twenty years ago was my mom's last birthday party and she had a big party for her sixtieth. So today she would be turning eighty.

Why? Oh my God. An amazing eight. So yeah. So she I'm sixty was her last birthday. She threw a big party, live music, a band. It was like a little mini wedding and it was just brilliant. I remember what I wore. I remember us getting ready. I remember what my mother and it's a strange one for me because most people kind of pull away from their moms in their teens and particularly girls. I think, you know, they just go, oh, you don't know anything.

You're stupid. You're always I hear your doors. You know nothing.

Yeah. When actually they know everything. But I didn't have that relationship with my mom because I've got too much older sisters.

I must much older sisters. I was a surprise. Oh nice.

So Mom had me at the age I am now forty and I was a total surprise.

So probably back then she might say that old but now that's just not old. Well mom would, would have said and she was in the Rotunda Hospital having me, she was the oldest one Ancient's like people thought she was and visiting like, you know, I was like she's a brownie.

So my sisters were twelve years older and ten years older.

So way older than you whaled were sisters.

And so it's funny know of the relationship I had my mom for my teenage years was more sisterly and my two older sisters would have been tough on me. Where were you? What time you coming home and who were you with? Where were you? You know, why are you wearing that? Take that. That's too short, Mom. That skirt is too short. Tell her to wear a longer skirt. My mom's like she's beautiful. She's gorgeous.

Legs. You showed those legs off your gorgeous. Out you go.

So I am so grateful to the universe that I had that relationship with my mom because I lost her the night before I turned twenty one. So, you know, most people return to their mother in their 20s. But, you know, for me, she was she was gone then. I didn't have her.

So what do you think your mom would have been like as an older lady? I can tell you now I know exactly how she'd be.

She would be glamorous, still always glamorous, always looking. Her best would refuse to go gray. Always the blonde highlights would still wear heels, just not very high heels.

Braid. I'm impressed. My my mother was constantly saying to us and my dad, like, she didn't just say to the girls, it was like, you've nicer up there, that you've a much nicer top than that up.

I don't like that lipstick on it.

And she wasn't picking holes and she was always saying, when you leave the house, leave us looking your best. And her line was and we said it at her funeral, you never know who you're going to meet. And I remember one day out she died like this today of me.

The state, like hair had been washed. And she could have been dead six months at the time, but hair had been washed for a week. No makeup on.

And I just remember walking up to the. Just to get some stuff from the shop and I saw my ex-boyfriend and I remembered all I could hear, my all I could hear was you never know who you're going to meet. Always try look your best. She was right. She was bloody right. Yeah. So we all we all still do that. No, you know, we all I was going into today FM every day during lockdown when there was nobody there to see me.

I was in a studio all of my own. My producer was working from home. There was nobody in the office. I was one day driving in and I caught myself in the mirror going, Why did you put on makeup for today?

But it's just it's just one of those things. It's just a habit and it's a habit from home. She also would have been she was really house proud, but not in a way that it was never homely hyacinth bouquet. Not like that. No, she was like she she was really house proud. And the house was always clean, so homely.

And she she'd hate if she pulled up, pulled up in the house after work and there was no lamps on you who hasn't put the gloves on like, you know, she liked soft lighting in her house and and and she worked.

She worked. She always worked. She loved working. I she worked in Clontarf Castle for years and it's bizarre. I now live one minute walk from Clontarf Castle. So funny. Yeah, I do.

I live right beside her and she loved her job there.

And when you talk about your mom. I do you do you do you enjoy talking. I'm not talking about the same as. Yeah I love talking but I like to help.

When you talk about your mom, you're just smiling and you're so happy to talk about it. I'm the same.

And tonight we're going to be talking about her all night because we're getting together in Mom's house, mom and dad's house and with mom's sister. Her only sister's live now and her two brothers.

So we're yeah, we're just going to toasts tonight because if mom was alive, she would know how to party. And it's a big birthday. Yes. So so, yeah, we're just going to be talking about her all night. But I also think, Brian, you know, when someone passes away and it's someone who you adored so much, you I heard it with all the people.

You put them on a bit of a pedestal. And I think it's important that you don't do that because they were human and they had loads of flaws. And my mom had loads of flaws. And I sometimes have read interviews that I've done. And, you know, I've seen me talking about my mom.

And you're going, yeah, but I didn't say that she did, you know, a mud temper like she did. She flew off the handle, you know, really easily.

And but I learned from that. I remember at a young age on, I'm not going to be like that. So I'm going to take I've taken all the good bits of my mom and I've I've kept them and I've held onto them. And I remembered her flaws. And when I had children myself, I went, I'm not going to do that. I'm going to do all the good stuff my mom did. But I'm not going to do that.

And, you know, she's fiery, their fiery family, you know. And so they my mom would she would like lose her mind over something that I go.

That's really not a big deal. But in a way, you've learned from her dad totally. Did you not a better mother, but a better you're learning from her. So she's trying to teach you how to do it properly.

Yeah, it's funny. My dad told me she died, of course, that she was really worried about me and concerned that I was going to be a walkover.

So like, seventeen, eighteen, nineteen.

Mom was like she's, you know, like she she does not sit back and I'm afraid more it's going to she's the quiet one in her group. I'm afraid she's going to let people walk all over. My mom would hate that. Right. You know, women need to know good for them.

So you have a tougher time when you're female, regardless of what people are doing. I think you do have a tougher time. And she she was afraid that that was going to be me. So it's it's hard to think the industry I ended up in and you definitely can't let yourself be walked all over.

Is it an Irish thing or is it a thing that we do with our moms that maybe we do put them on pedestals? Yeah, and I always think that because she's not around anymore, it's my duty to say the best things about her.

Of course. And you only ever want to highlight the positives. And like with my mom, there was so many. But I think for anybody listening to this who has lost someone, I think it's important not to lose sight of their flaws and and say that they are who they are actually where exactly who the person was.

And and and grief is a strange thing. Like, I obviously had never really experienced grief before. I'd lost grandparents, but I was quite young when I lost my grandparents and two had already passed away before I was alive.

So, you know, my mom was the first time I had experienced real solid, awful grief. And I think for me, this is actually kind of a hard thing to say.

But in the probably the four weeks before she died, I wasn't wishing her to die. But I was going I hope this doesn't go on until September, which is what the doctors had said, because I just couldn't bear looking at my mom being this ill until, you know, till then. So we were told mom had about nine months to live. And like my mom was told that I just I can't imagine what. It's like being told that information, you know, you know, you have about nine months to live, there's just really no more we can do.

It's like you wonder what goes through their mind.

Yeah, I mean, she was offered she was offered treatment. And obviously we wanted her to take everything on every cocktail she got. Yeah. And she was really, really, really brave woman. And she said, no, it's it's got me I'm I want to go out of this world looking the way I kind of came into it, looking like me. And I'm not going to I'm not going to do that. So I want to enjoy the next few months that I have.

Do you think brave of her or do you think. No, take the drug? Well, we did or we did think she should have. But, you know, ultimately, it it it is it was her decision, her other decision, which was tofor was not to tell anyone.

She didn't want anyone to know she was sick. So she made us promise we wouldn't tell anyone. So she didn't want neighbors knowing or she she didn't want to be pitied.

And she also didn't want to have to explain her situation to anyone like, you know, former work colleagues or she just didn't want that.

She was incredibly private.

And the people who needed to know knew they knew, like her family, her sisters, who she was really close to, her sisters we knew. And my boyfriend at the time knew because obviously he was going to be in the house lots. And but I didn't tell some friends. I didn't tell work.

And I found that really, really difficult is difficult because it's almost like you're living it with your mom. Yeah. And how did you hide that from people that knew it was just like it was kind of like living two lives.

The life at home was what it was. I and it was tough.

And Mom had loads of good days like. So we got that news in December. So her last Christmas was actually in hospital in the modern hospital. And then she got out of hospital in January and she was definitely like, I don't want anyone to know. And we were told kind of September. She wouldn't see September. As it turns out, she she died on the 2nd of April. But I'm 2001.

I'm like 2001. Yeah. Yeah.

So I just found it was like living two lives. So I would I would just kind of go to work and do what I was doing. And I was college two nights a week and do that. And then I decided to just give up work.

I decided to just stay, stay at home with her and just kind of be around at your mom's sixtieth birthday, whether people there or didn't know how ill she was.

So she wasn't ill then. That's the I think the mom's birthday today, July. Yeah. Mom had recovered. So Mom had had cancer the year before that same breast cancer.

Breast cancer. Yes, the year before that. Two thousand. And she'd gotten over that. Wow. And got the all clear.

You must been thrilled, delighted. Thrilled to you. Over the moon was wonderful. And that's really the reason why she was kind of marking her sixtieth birthday with a party because she was here. I'm here, I'm healthy. I'm feeling good alive and looking good.

Everyone around me that I love. And and it was really nice.

And then she she actually found another lump the week after sixtieth birthday on the same side that she'd had breast cancer originally.

No.

Yeah. So it did come back in the exact same spot, which is is awful. So she had surgery, then she had more treatment. And then again, scans seem to be clear and then she returned to work again, feeling OK. And in late December she took bad really quickly. Um, she was getting ready to go to work and she actually called my dad.

I don't I don't ever remember my mother ringing in sick to work ever in my life.

And she had her hand on on the wall in their bedroom. And she's like, I just can't move my back. And my dad said, I'll call a doctor. I mean, this is probably the only time a doctor was in the house.

And the doctor said, I think you should prepare yourself for some bad news, which was mom, I just thought she'd pulled something.

So I said, what's the bad?

The bad news would be that I think cancer has returned and returned somewhere. That's not going to be good. So she was sent for a scan a couple of days later, and it was it was bad news. The day she went for the scan, they took her in.

And like I, I kind of think either my mom it was like one of those really sneaky cancers or my mom's pain threshold is like the height of the sky because, you know, it was bone cancer with spots on her liver. And she had been working, you know, a couple of days. She was fine. I am.

So and they took her in that day. So my dad had to go home and get a bag and take her into hospice. And they were giving her a pain management that day, and that was like, I don't know the exact date, but I know it was really close to Christmas. So it was like the 18th or 19th of December. And most it was in December. And then your mom passed away the following April.

Following April, she got five months. Not even. Not even. And she was in hospital for a good three or four weeks. She was in hospital right up towards the end of a towards the end of January.

You obviously you guys obviously have that high of mom being so in the clear. We have everything sorted.

Yeah. And then for that role to be completely pulled. Yeah. Again so quickly and then for her to be gone for months later. How do you get your head around that or do you.

I don't know, like Mom was really strong during all that and that's the awful thing.

I look back now and she was the thing holding all of us together and you know, especially my dad, my dad took it really, really badly and my mom's illness really badly. He just I couldn't understand it. And, you know, my dad's so gorgeous, this kind of Old-Fashioned, you know, way of things. I like good food and fresh air and kind of sort out anything.

So I think it's I think it really is. It is like I'm like I never realized I didn't know that when you have cancer and when it's at a certain stage, like, you really don't have an appetite at all. It's just it's just gone. And, you know, Dad would be cooking these like really nutritious meals for my mom, for her lunch. And I'm like, Dad, she doesn't want it.

She she does. This is this. She needs to keep her strength up. And I'm like and I you know, I look back, I was a kid, I was twenty, you know, saying this to dad and my sisters were brilliant. The sisters were great to one of them was possibly in denial of how sick mom was. And, you know, I've heard on previous episodes of this podcast who, you know, who is the favorite child.

It was all over you and your sisters, which I laughed and was me. Right. Clearly, it was just pointing that out.

Fact. OK, well, hashtag fact in my family, it was my sister Olga, who was the middle the middle girl.

She was, you know, obviously mom adored all of us, but Olga was definitely mom's favorite in a way that she got away with things that myself and Samon wouldn't get away with. And she knew that, you know, and they were she worked extremely close.

She made my mom laugh more than anybody in the family.

And that's you know, that's obviously you the the the kangaroo to make them laugh. But I'm so Olga, I think, was possibly in denial about how ill Mum was. And Olga was turning Olga turned 30 and that January and was like, you know, let's go to dinner to like our favorite restaurant.

I like I don't think Mom's going to be able to step, but my mom did. My mom did.

She was probably a couple of days out of hospital and got dressed for Olga, got clammed up, looked amazing, went to the restaurant, had the dinner, had wine for four. Olga, my mom did that for Olga.

Was your dad at all optimistic everything would be OK? Because, you know, she the mother of his children, his soulmate, his wife, we were saying he's making all that food. Yeah.

Was he still in hope that I would be OK? I think it was.

I think, again, he was in denial. It wasn't hope.

It was just, you know, kind of ignoring it, ignoring the facts, ignoring the facts, ignoring how how bad things were in a way that was also kind of good, because life was actually I was kind of nice some of those times, like some of the nicest conversations with Mom during that time.

Like Mom. I mean, one day we're talking about what was I going to do because I was the only one in all of my friends who really didn't know what I wanted to do. Like everyone else was either almost finished college and getting their degree or had already finished and were in the the the space they wanted to be in. You know, I'd I'd a friend, you know, who was doing chemistry and French and was working for, you know, pharmaceutical company and was doing really well.

And, you know, another person was doing really well in the bank. She was three or four years in the bank had already been promoted.

And I was just like flowing a lot of pressure on someone I know. I know. Am I going to do what I'm going to do? I don't know what I'm going to do because I had dropped out of college and I'm the conversation. My mom was, you know what what do you want to do? And I said, I really would love to work in radio. And she's like, well, why don't you do it? And of course, the Irish thing.

And when you're from a working class background, which I'm from, you know, we're from Finless East and we didn't know anyone in radio. And normally that's a way into these industries is like, you know, if you know someone they play hard and put a good word in or come in and work experience, go in and make tea and coffee for them, I get it. We knew nobody, nobody at all had ever done anything like that.

So my mom was like, well, just look into us. And she said to me, why don't you just make a couple of calls there today, like on the landline, right?

What should we look like? It's about Kelly the Orange You newsroom did not. And I would love to know who took my call, but they gave me like fifteen, twenty minutes of well, time for do you say.

We have it here, this. It was a man, it was a man anyway, and I just I basically told him my story is like, oh, he has a gun. Would you have a minute to talk to me? Were you twenty? Twenty one or two? I was twenty. And he obviously thought I had a story, you know, and I'd like to give the newsroom. And he said, sure, yeah, yeah. And I said, I'm so I've dropped out of college and I'm ready for my flight to work in radio.

Right. And I just kind of don't know how to go about it. And he he then told me he told me, like, one of the best places to go to is for a college. You know, he'd gone there. I could probably track him down like it was to speak to this man. January, February, the year 2000, anyway. So then I just started looking into going to for and mom said, OK, apply. So we put the application together and did all that.

And the day of Mom's funeral, the 5th of April, I got a letter from Berkeley firm is calling me for an interview for that cause you choking me?

I just got Goose.

Yeah. So when I got a place, I got a fax in there and I've never looked back and I had Hasid, my first college experience so much. I absolutely hated it. It just wasn't for me. I met lovely people, but the course I was like, well, can I ask what you're studying? Human resource management. Me, I just got outcry.

People came to me with problems like, you know, I would like you're being bullied, I'm going to fire that person. So I'm going to bully them. Yeah, I'm going to bully them. Yeah, I just I would have been awful. So that course was not for me. And so, yeah, I ended up going there. I didn't know how I was going to go for me, but I honestly, week one, I said, this is it.

I never missed a day. Assignments that were due in like on a Tuesday.

I'd have them in the Friday before choice. I was going to play two issues. I just I loved it. I never saw it as much as work.

Do you think your mom was responsible for all of that? Why do you think when you brought up the conversation, I went to work in radio or television. Your mom was like, yeah, I totally get it. Let's do this.

Yeah, I had had I had that feeling and that notion, you know, I had a notion of it for years, but I was always too afraid to say it out loud. Yeah. You know, I want to work in radio like you think you are, you know. And so then I think because of mom's illness and because of where we were in life, just I was able to have that conversation with her. And she didn't think it was ridiculous.

She thought, why wouldn't you? Why not things?

Because she was your mother and that you thought you wanted. Why can't you have everything? Because you're my child. Yes, let's go for it.

Although I do remember, you know, Mom wasn't around for, like X Factor or any of that time she had already passed away. Remember, Pop Star is in Ireland. Yes, I'm Nadine and all that. Yes. We watch that show as your passport. Nadine. Yeah. What age are you.

Oh you watch that show. And, you know, there were people who auditioned and were terrible. I'm God who has told them that they're good at that.

I'm like, you know, you for years, like when this stays on me, like when I had, like, acne, when I had my braces, you'd be like, you are gorgeous.

You're absolutely beautiful. And, you know, I'm like, it's people like you. I that's that's just comfort. That's giving you a bit of color.

You not telling me you auditioned for. No, I didn't. I didn't. But I mean, like what mom, are you.

I was going out and like, I look back and focus on, say, Holy Mother of God, the state me. But my mother had told me I was beautiful. Do you not think as a mother I know your boys, the Alex, you've got two younger girls.

When they get older, you will do and say you do the exact same already same. You know, I do it already.

I already I, I hear my mother threw me when I'm talking to the kids all the time now and then I, I when I'm going to lose my temper with them, when I want to go.

Yeah.

I want to scream at them like oh they're three thirty two, he's thirteen. Just hold us. And I do that now and again. That's because of my mother.

Do you think when your mom was diagnosed and she was in so much pain, did you at all see any blessings or positives in the time that you had, that you were allocated this amount of time to get everything off your chest, to tell her what she meant to you and to kind of mend any bridges that maybe were broken?

Yeah, I do. I thought there is a blessing in that. It's kind of a double edged sword. I feel so, so sorry for people. And I have a close friend who lost her dad, you know, was talking to him one day on the phone. And the next day I got a phone call to say, you know, he died in his sleep. I, I would have hated that to happen.

But like, I was kind of saying earlier on, if I if Mom had been sick for a much longer period of time, I would have found that really distressing.

So I I don't know which which one is which one is is right.

Well, I suppose for you and I have I had thought that was exactly which was I spoke to her on the phone.

She was fine.

And then eight hours later, all of us are going to experience. Death, and yet no one really talks about it or talks about grief and grief for every person is so different.

And even within the one family, like, you know, my best friend Linda, who won't mind me saying this, and we've got so many weird connections, it's actually freaky.

So we met in Arnett's when we were 16, 17, working in Arnett's didn't like each other. I thought she was so open Aass and like to say sorry Linda.

This always fancied her. She was like I was there for she was the lead and you were just yet.

Anyway, actually when we eventually got talking to each other, we realized we really liked each other.

And then we've been best friends ever since. Both Linda's mom died in St. Francis Hospice of Breast Cancer one year after my mom died. Wow.

It's so it's like it's it's so odd and how we've both dealt with our grief in a completely, completely different ways. Like, you know, I remember her mom's funeral. I walked in with my dad and my sisters, and Linda gave me the biggest smile and the biggest wave like she had just spotted me and Kathy Unsane on a Thursday night.

Hey, I wanna come over.

You know, Grace, you know, that's what it was on the day.

And she was her mom loved to entertain her mom had a great job. She was a sales director.

And and Linda was channeling that for her mom's funeral and making sure everyone had a show on and making sure everyone got fed.

And did you did you get did you get your teeth? Did you get your wines a bottle of wine for your table? And she was doing all of that. Like, I barely remember my mom's funeral.

Like, I honestly, it's a it's a blank.

I can't remember the hymns from it.

I can't remember I read this, but I can't remember it, you know, so, like, it's very I wouldn't ever judge anybody on their grief now because sometimes grief kicks in four and five years later for people, you know, like mine kicked in, I think as my sisters were coming out of us and mine really kicked in a long time later when I became mother, you know, I felt really robbed when I had taros in twenty six, twenty seven when I had those kind of a young youngish mom, you know, today's times and I felt robbed them.

But Mom have been dead five years.

I know. And I felt the hands because you needed her.

I needed her total needed her. I wanted her.

I want guidance. Her advice she to see him, to hold him. She always wanted a son and especially when she a couple of wines on board to boy and we're like, mom, that's three girls, you know, three beautiful daughters.

Beautiful.

Oh gosh I know. But I would have loved Soren and I had one and I was like, she's not here to see and he's blonde hair and I think he looks like her and I felt really robbed then. What a weird thing. I know I'm jumping all over the place here. Jump away.

I remember she was dead about six months and I was working in Arnett's part time and I think I just started in firm. And so I was working in Arnett's and Saturdays and Sundays and I, I got the lift down. I was on the switchboard. Hello. And it's going to help me. I got the lift out of my lunch break and the doors opened onto the ladies fashion floor.

And I remember seeing this coat and I said, I must tell Mom about that. And it was a real thought of when I go back up, I'm going to do a sneaky free phone call from Arnett's.

I'm going to tell Mom petcoke. She would love that coat.

And then, you know, like, yeah, those ten seconds. Why don't we talk. I know I can still do that.

I can't ring mom like she's you know, she's never going to see that. So I'm never going to see their coat on. Mom, I can't buy my coat for Christmas was and then I was a mess for the rest of the day. I know so well it's weird.

Strega you it's really strange.

Grief is a reason for for doing this and why we came back to do a second season of the show was because grief is never talked about publicly. You know, how would you describe your grief. How long is your mom past now.

Twenty, nineteen. Ninety nine years. A long time ago. In the nineteen years. How would you describe it. We're two years in. Does it get better. Does it get easier. Is it. Did you still have those moments. I'm going to get Mumbaikar Cokes. I'm going to.

I don't have those moments. I don't have those moments anymore. I think it definitely does get easier.

But there there's still flashes am and I think they will happen in thirty years.

It's and it's more moments missed. So, you know, somebody having a baby, like when I had the you know, I had a daughter then. So I was a mother to a daughter and I didn't have my own mother around. I missed my weddings, both of them, you know.

You know, there was flashes on during that time, obviously, like I went through a marriage break up. I really, really wished I'd had my mom for that. And, you know, I think a part of that was down to my grief.

You know, I wasn't ready to get married when I got married. I wasn't ready to be a wife. And, you know, that's all part of that feeling, so grief is actually part of some of the failures I've had in my life, too.

When you were going through moments that are very testing, like, say, for example, when you went through the breakup of your first marriage, which you've said just that, heighten the grief.

It does.

And it's weird. There was a lot of similar emotional feelings because actually that is almost like another grief, you know, so I was I was trying to separate, say, a grief of a relationship ending coupled with the grief of not having my mom there and then the two of them being quite intertwined and going like taking a step back is when something fails you often you have to look at why did it fail? OK, and there's and there's various different reasons which I won't go into now.

But part of it is I was I was too young. I wasn't ready. I didn't have my mom. I didn't have that solid, you know, advice there.

And at the time of me getting married, my dad was was suffering so bad with the levels of grief because, you know, mom had only passed three, three years. And I think that was nearly the worst time for my dad took two to two and a half years after mom died was actually probably the worst time for my dad because it had totally he'd realized that this was his lot and he was quite young.

He was his early 60s, his best friend, his life partner, Dick.

They killed each other at times as well.

Like I said, I'm not going to gloss over that, not like they were.

You know, we weren't the Waltons say that I am, but also the whole part of his life where your you know, the work is done, the kids are reared, and you have this picture of going off on weekends on a a cheap deal on the back of the Irish Independent that you might see a weekend for two in Wexford. All those things that they had started doing were gone. So I think Dad really realized that I'd also moved out.

So he was. And you were the youngest? I was the youngest. So he was home alone.

And and I think that's that was a really a tough time for him.

So, you know, I went and got married. Dad was home alone. My sisters were obviously moving on and on and on. It hit him. Really? Then that's this. This was his last name. And I talked to him lots about what he. Would you ever meet someone again?

And we we you and your sisters, OK, with how we would have been OK with it, because I knew Dad never would have lived with anyone again. Oh yes, I knew that. I mean, that would have shocked me to my core, but I think we all would.

You would you have been OK with who would have been OK with it? Because I think, again, it's selfish if you're in a relationship and you have somebody to go home to every night. And if they they don't and they're not erasing any memories, they're just moving on. And I think humans, we actually need other humans. You know, we do companionship. We need companionship. And there's nothing wrong with that. And I think for my dad to have had a friends type situation, I would have been very, very happy for him.

But he never did. He kept saying nobody will ever be as glamorous as your mole for anyone listening to this.

How would you say you coped with your grief? Do you cope with grief? Is there a way of dealing with it?

Um, oh, God, I don't know. I think for every person it is it is unique. It really is. I actually heard this quote, and I really hope I say it correctly, but grief doesn't change you. It reveals you. Oh, and I I have seen that with lots of people who who are grieving. So, like, you know, you can cling on to the sadness of it all and you can hold onto that sadness and you can say, I'm sad because this has happened to me.

And some people do that. And that's that's their grief and that's what they do.

Or you can be as strong, you can be strong with this and you can reveal yourself as a strong person. That doesn't mean you're not sad. You know, it doesn't you know, you when you're grieving, you're not crying, you know, 12 hours a day. And that's what I would have thought grief was.

I'm going to go through this phase. I'm going to cry, and then I'll cry and then I'll be OK.

That's not what grief is.

It's it can be shock for two years and then it can be crying and then it can be questioning and then like it can be all those things.

But I think it I think it does reveal who you really are. I mean, in a good way.

Everybody I think in both good and bad, in a good and a bad way, it can reveal reveal sides of yourself that are good and bad.

And I think for me, it revealed how maybe emotionally strong I was. I didn't realise I was at all.

I mean, I really didn't I no clue. No clue about myself before today. Yeah. But I know really who I was. I mean, you know, Mum died on a Monday. I turned twenty one the next day. And, you know, her funeral was on the day that I had planned to have my 21st birthday party, you know, like so I, I didn't realize that I, I was strong. I didn't realize that there could have been a selfish side to me, too, because I was very much all about me and minding me here at the time.

And I would have seen that, I would have seen that in myself and just kind of blocking out everybody else and wouldn't maybe not asking my sisters how they were at the time, because, again, I looked at them and said, they're much older than me.

They're fine. Yeah. You know, they had a baby until they were thirty three and thirty. But I you know, I'm 21 this week. Yeah. So I saw I was very strong, but I definitely saw that there was a selfish side to me that I hadn't really seen before and, you know, to to work on that and change that.

There's a lot you, Ryan, that said in our charge of something that was true and she said she can be a very good thing because you're almost so in shock that it gets you through it.

Yeah, which is what I suppose the shock does it you know, it can it can get you through.

Mum's mum's wasn't a shock. Mom's death wasn't a shock.

Mum's illness was a shock.

So, you know, we would have had those few months of of the shock getting us through, you know, that that Christmas, which was just bizarre, like opening presents, presents like robots that morning, then getting into the car and going to the hospital to visit mom on Christmas Day.

And like, you know, your mom. Yes, my mom was all about Christmas. Yes. The house was just gorgeous.

Santas, grotto Telcel fat everywhere.

Maureen had no tinsel. So I think we know that Natalie Bingo. And she definitely didn't do tinsel ever, ever. So I have just embarrassed really expensive artist decorations all around the place. And but she would like the place was just so beautiful and and the food and the shopping and the gifts.

And then we were opening gifts from Mum that were put on and you know, what the hell is going on. It's just this is just weird. But we were going through the motions and we were normal and in shock. And then we went down to see her on Christmas Day. It's it's yeah. Shock can be can be good, though. It can just prepare you for bit. Yeah. I think it numbs you. And you know, I've spoken openly about it.

I think when you said you don't remember your mom's funeral know I did not enjoy the funeral Joyce.

Probably the wrong word, but I just no one enjoys the funeral of their mother.

So I actually I going to cut across it there. I think some people do enjoy the funeral in that there's stories that they haven't heard. You know, and you can hear this brilliant story about your mom reminisce and reminisce.

And and I you know, I have been at funerals where I know the family have said, oh, God, I didn't know that about Dad or OK, that was it was so good to hear from their work colleagues who we didn't know.

So maybe enjoy is the wrong word. But it it's almost therapeutic to hear this other side of the parent that they may not know, like people from the golf club or like people from work. And so people do get something from the funeral. But that didn't happen.

You know, I even remember we got a chance to meet Mom. So Mom's friend she went to school with. Yeah, because I've always said I only ever seen my mom as my mummy.

Yeah. She was like she didn't exist. Your boyfriend, a fiance, say, a friend that went out that kissed a boy, you know, on a first date. And then only looking back on it now, two years later, you know, even before that, we we got a chance to meet our friends. And mom used to pick mushrooms. And some people she used to pick mushrooms with, like, oh, my God, she had a life before as I just seen her as a mummy.

And she wasn't just, you know, a super human, like a superhero, because I never seen my mom as vulnerable.

I never seen her as old. It's like we think our moms and dads, of course, but our moms aren't human. Yeah.

I think that we maybe it's nothing of putting them on the pedestal.

It's funny, though. You just think they they didn't exist before, you know, you were born.

But, you know, as a mom, I, I have struggled to kind of fully remember life without Daris.

So I was talking to him about this this time and he said, what are you doing while I was alive?

And I'm like, were you not there? But he said, No, mom, I wasn't alive.

Like, God, that's Mobb. You've just always been there. It's like he's always been in my life. And he clearly wasn't, you know, he came along when I was whatever, you know, a few days after I turned twenty seven.

So do you think by not having your mom around anymore, sad and devastating, that is, it's put you on the track you're supposed to be on.

It does. And Mom said something to me when she was really sick at home and she said that I can do more for you up there than I can here. No. Yeah. And I, I, I do.

I think she has I totally think she has because I think things have happened me in my life that I don't deserve. You know, I think I've been extremely lucky and I've been unlucky sometimes too.

But I. She has steered me around and helped me navigate my way around those situations, but I have.

Been very lucky in my life since my mom passed away, and I don't know if I've deserved that looks. I think she is.

Why do you think you. What makes you think that you don't deserve.

Like, I suppose, you know, the industry we're working in, I've been given opportunities that I still go me.

Surely you deserve them because you've worked hard to get them and you've proven yourself and you've got the opportunity.

Yes, I have loads people. It's probably the whole imposter syndrome thing, you know, like I know we all have that. I don't think it's just in entertainment. I think people have in other industries as well. But I, you know, like calls, I've got more opportunities that have have been put my way or, you know, jobs I've I've gotten I sometimes feel like really me. OK, OK, I'll give it a go.

I'll give it a bash like Dancing with the Stars.

I like went into the going, OK, week five, week six. I am absolutely chuffed with myself.

I'm going to give myself the biggest week to week and I want I want to switch. I want to go.

That was my goal. Yeah. And I went on seven so I was just.

Yeah, I was I wanted to switch off week. I was like, I just get that feels to me like a good space to be in. And, you know, people will still remember that you took part in the show.

Yeah. I'm so excited. Yeah. So you know, the thing that's I'm saying things like that happened. I mean, I never in a million years, I was the second from the bottom on the bookies list, you know, so that's what I mean. Like you're second from the bottom on the bookies list and you win on Nango.

That was my mother is still my dancing. No doubt all the hours I put in, it's mom. I was my mama when my dad said after that, like, oh my God, there wouldn't be a heart big enough to fit on her head right now.

What do you think she would have been like? That's a really good that's a you know, she would have been there, obviously. Oh, there.

You're crowned the winner. How would she have reacted?

Oh, she she just would have been so proud. The my thing is right. I have I got to take a picture of this when I got home. So I'm going to show you. Yeah. I like I've kept it like obviously have a few things for mom.

Like I have a beautiful ring that I wear and no tinsel. There's no tinsel bingo.

But there is a Christmas decoration with no tinsel.

OK, but I kept the two last items of clothing she bought for me because I was older.

You know, your mom does buy your clothes for you buy your toilet.

But she bought me these two tops and one of them is a black T-shirt from Oasis. I was just has star in little diamonds going across.

Oh yeah. Oh wow. Yeah.

And I found that again because I've put you know, I've moved so many times, like I've since mom since mom passed away and I found this when I was packing up. Haugaard last went to the movies last May, was packing up the house I won Dancing with the Stars and I found this fox with the t shirt.

I'm like, how did you know the T-shirt was in?

I knew that. I didn't know the teacher was in that box. And I actually know what was in the box. But there's two types. One is a a desperate boob tube from warehouse, which I believe I can fit into it.

Yeah, half of me would fit into it now.

And the other one was the t shirt with the star over and little little stones.

So funny how you're meant to find stuff the right time because, you know, I found that I am on the path now.

With me now back living in Ireland. Yeah. You have not lived in Ireland since 1998. I remember I went to Stansted Airport to train with Ryanair. Am I again working class family from Britain going to Kildare. And my mum and dad gave me, I think, 250 Irish pounds.

And that was all they got like that was it. And there was I left six girls behind me and I went and I moved to Stansted.

And the fact that I'm back here now with my husband, you know, Mum walked me down the aisle. And so if we had that together, you know, we don't have any children yet. And that's sad that she's not around for that.

But I think I'm supposed to be here and I'm supposed to be doing whether it was for this family or one is Dancing with the Stars stuff that I said, no, no, no. And the fact that mum's not here, I've done that. And it's allowed me other opportunities to meet other people, to open up their doors. And I have to think that out of something so sorry about me, out of something so bad and horrendous that there is potential light and love.

I think for me, she's almost guiding you down a path that you probably didn't think you would go down. You probably never saw yourself moving home and. No, no, no, no, no.

I never thought I'd be back with my husband living in Ireland were house hunting at the moment, and I would have done the shows that I've done because I said no before. No, no, you're not just for me or, you know, this is what I'm doing. So it's so strange that I feel like it's when I want or the most, because every time we go looking at a house and I do think with Mum like that kitchen and then I go, of course she's not here.

I'm so stupid. You're so strange.

Well, you will still think that. Yeah. And when you're picking a kitchen, you'll still go. Mom would like just that. Ever know that doesn't leave. Doesn't go away. No it doesn't go away like this top that Arthur said was lovely on me. I bought this top because I like mum would have worn something like this. So Mom loved the sleeve. I rarely ever wear sleeveless stuff because I just, I never ever wear white jeans because my mom told me white jeans do nothing for you.

I'm just going to check under the table. Look, black. She's not in white jeans.

Yeah, gorgeous Gucci shoes, but no white jeans. Why jeans do nothing for you. Right.

Did you laugh a lot you're saying there about how you thought grief was going to be crying constantly.

You were saying how and funerals. Some people might enjoy reminiscing. And speaking of the person, I said it was Rachel Corrie that charter with. And she had said to me how they laughed constantly. And I said we laughed ridiculously over a lot with Mom for four days. And we laughed.

Yeah. And then we were angry. Yes, we laughed. We cried, but we laughed a lot.

Did you did you did you laugh at all? Did you, you know, you know, reminiscing and talking and going to remember that.

And we still we still do now. We still do. Myself and my sisters will still talk about mom like if something happens again. Can you imagine what moment that happened. Like we're in a restaurant and they got the order wrong. My mom was a waitress. I mean, like, can you imagine what mom would do? Or, you know, signs in shops meant nothing to my mother.

Like, I remember this one time I was telling the girls this story. I was about fifteen. So, you know, that like awkward teenager age where, you know, I was really close to mom.

But when she did something that was embarrassing because you're cool. She's not exactly. We were in Tesco, which was called crazy prices at the time.

And we are old. Are you right? I don't even remember that. Oh, yes. You do know what you do.

Anyway, I was in crazy prices, but more money's coming up to Christmas that year. And she decided that years she wanted the turkey boned and rolled the whole bunch.

And then we were there and there was a giant sign behind the butcher counter saying, you know, if you want your turkey, but, oh, it must be ordered by such and such a date. And it was two days past that date. Someone would miss the dates.

So I'll ring the butcher was like, no, sorry. No, you can't. And she's just said, excuse me, I'm here three times a week since you opened. And just because I've missed the date by two days, you're telling me that you can't. And I'm just moving away to fight more to fight.

She did her thing. Did she get a bone marrow course?

She did. Maureen always got what Maureen wanted, so she got it done. And then this is the cuteness over, though. The day she went over, the day it was to be collected, she wasn't going to collect it. She sent my dad and me over to collect it. So I went over retired and dad was like, oh, here it's collect, you know, the orders for Farrell. And he said, Oh, the Tigers showed her teeth last week.

I like. It's a moment I was kind of private, if you'd like, the butchers, they're all afraid of, you know, mom, they called you a tiger and said, you know, we're going to bone and roll my turkey. Quick question.

Did the turkey taste like it was amazing just in case one of the best Christmas turkeys you've ever had.

But you have that memory and we can laugh about it totally. We can totally laugh with those things. And then there's another thing that every single time one of us in the family gets tipsy from wine. Right. So we have this thing and we say Toffy shopped. Right. And nobody outside of the family will know what we're talking about. Like, my sister would go, oh, I had a great time with the girls. It was a bit of a shopped.

Not just means like tipsy, merry, not drunk, just a bit. Toffee shop is merry.

It comes down to one story around. We were sitting around the dining table and we'd had like a lovely meal. I obviously was only a kid. I wasn't drinking, but my my mom and dad and my sisters were having a bit of wine. And my sister talked about a girl who she'd been in school with who had just opened up this little coffee shop.

And my mom looked confused, so strange. So I was like, no, it's doing really, really well. It's quite busy.

And my mother was like, I just don't understand why on earth would somebody open a shop thrity toffee instead of Kostic?

Oh, Ward laughing And then Mom got cross because we were all laughing at her. So ever since then it's tough. Shopped is when we're all a bit tipsy because Mom was a bit tipsy and her coffee shop as a coffee shop.

So it's good you have those memories.

It's good to have those memories or we still use them every day. Were you a religious family?

We were, yeah. We were like I went to Mass every Sunday and my mom got my Sundays and, you know, she'd go to do the stations of the cross. And I went, you know, when you had to do that on Good Friday.

And she went to Lourdes probably three times, they definitely got coffee shop in Lourdes. I can tell you, I never went. I'm the only person for a while.

Yes, but we were it wasn't an overly religious probably like us.

I ask you that because, you know, I question and guess I've questioned where do you think your mom is like and what you think she's doing?

I have to. And I have always believed I'm one of those cherrypicking Catholics who I take the stuff I want. And I ignored the stuff that I just don't agree with.

Yeah, and like boring. Everyone talks about health care now and mindfulness.

And I remember as a kid, like I'd switch off at Mass.

I didn't hear what the priest said. I think we all did, though.

I really liked the hymns, but I used to switch off and I think about school that week or it maybe a little would what had with a friend or. That was my mindfulness back then. And I think there's loads of people are missing. I'm not by the way, I'm not preaching.

People go back to mass, but I just think I grew up with having that space of mindfulness there that I probably my kids don't have. You know, where you go and you switch off as a family for one hour a week. And this, you know, I've stayed quiet. We're very good at doing this.

So it was like this lovely hymns for the songs. I was there for the songs, is there for the entertainment. And and and we had that as a family.

And I think it was it was a it was a lovely thing to be in. And then there was I used to do novenas with my dad. I did that a company for dad. But I definitely got something out of those. I don't know. They were again, they were a bit more like life lessons type things, you know?

And I remember, you know, there was probably late teens at Mass one day and the priest gave a sermon on a short term pleasure can sometimes lead to long term pain.

And he was talking about like, say, cheating in a relationship. You know, in that moment you might want to go, oh, yeah. But like long term pain because it could destroy something. So I that's a lesson I took from my son. I remember talking to my mom in the car, going home, not going like that was a good sermon, you know, because they're normally not on myself. A mom would have talked about that one.

And I feel I have to think she's there watching me.

So so, you know, by cherry picking, you think she's she on a cloud? Is she in heaven?

I don't know if she's in heaven or she around me.

Is she whispering to me in the wind sometimes she the Robin that was in my old church, she's everywhere like it's you know, robins are everywhere in Ireland. Of course they are. I know that the people are go. But there's a little Robin that used to like land in the back garden, the house I rented for eight years. And then, you know, we bought our house, we bought a house and we moved into we renovated house.

And I would just go, that's the same guy. That's the same Robin. I'm telling you, they come right up to the door. I'm like, it's my mom. And every time what I'm thinking, things like that, little Robin is trying to tell me something. So, I mean, look, it's probably all in my head, but I think we all I've done that.

I think we all I've used.

Yeah. Signs I'd like to say life whispers to you.

And sometimes I take the whispers as my mom trying to whisper to me, did your mom know what was happening like at the end and did she, did she question.

Where she was going was there she was she fearful or she might think in the beginning she was a little bit fearful, but then she definitely she definitely made peace with what was going on. And she actually made peace with the brother who she hadn't spoken to for years. Oh, wow. And which was you know, that's always a good thing. Yeah.

Probably one of the last people to really have a conversation with her because she decided herself she wants to go to the hospice, which again, was tricky for and for my dad, because obviously he wanted to keep her at home. But she said, no, I need to go to the hospice. I mean I mean a lot of pain and I need to be pain free. And so she was in support of hospice for just five days. And so she's definitely made peace with what was going on.

But she kept a diary for the last few months. My sister has died and it's really nice to read like this. You know, her thought process in it, again, thinking I was really quiet and worried about me. Was that in the diary? OK, yeah, that is in the diary.

And she planned her funeral.

That's a weird thing to do. Yeah. Like she planned like she where she wanted just to go afterwards. And typical Maureen, not soup and sandwiches.

I want to sit down meal Bolland and roll turkey. So that was that.

We have that for mom and. Yeah. And like what she, you know what she wanted to, to wear and she didn't want to go to a funeral home. She made that very, very clear.

She wanted, you know, a week at home in her in her house.

And so that was very you know, she very much made that a plan and and she wants to be cremated. I've never been never been to a crematorium before my mom. So that was kind of strange, actually was very strange.

You don't have to tell me. That's just I'm just asking. Did you did you what you do with the ashes?

We've kept the ashes. Ashes. And that's the one thing it's bizarre. She she planned everything, but she never planned what to do with the ashes afterwards.

Maureen, what do we do? Do we've done everything else.

So they were at home in Dad's house for years, in her favorite room in the house, sitting on top of the piano. She made me take piano lessons for years.

And that wasn't bad, actually a return to it this year.

I've bought a piano. See how weird? I bought myself a piano this year. I bought it and locked in this paid on Instagram so I can laugh. OK, I'll do that.

I'm going to do that for you. Thank you. Moonlight's not a thank you.

And then my husband, we were all talking about we were all talking about I love Smash's and I love Smash's but like do we should we separate.

I know.

And Louis bought myself and my two sisters these mini silver urns that are love hearts and just to take a small piece of oak of the ashes.

So we now all have a piece. Nice.

And she's. Yeah. So she's still at home.

And if you were to go see that little piece, we have the ashes. Would you, would you, would you talk to her. Oh yeah, totally.

I was talking to you last night and my sisters did all the time but like I've hang it up with my wardrobe is one of her tops that I wear all the time she wore to my communion. And I it's it's incredible quality. I still wear a shirt. It's black and white top that's hanging in my wardrobe.

And I would throw it on and I don't like it's not I'm going to wear this today. His mom's birthday, like I could've thrown on this morning, but I didn't.

I wear it like on a Tuesday in February because I want it and I just want to feel extra close to her. And I also have a beautiful suede dress belong to her that I throw on as well.

She's not very fashionable. She was she had amazing style. She actually had amazing style. Yeah. I don't think any of us have lived up to the style icon that Maureen was.

Well, at least you know that we know. And so let's be honest, she said she knew that as well. You know what she did for me one time? I know we're probably like I'm waffling on that. No, but to talk about, like, the fact that, you know, when you pull away as a as a teen and you come back in your 20s and I didn't have that like we were really, really close in my teenage years and I just leave I off.

My sister had that was a real cash top.

And I wanted to go to this underage disco in Alabama when I was about fifteen. And my mom was like, I thought to leave. I would look so good at my jeans. My mom was like, OK, I'll sneak it out of the wash for you. So my mom snuck it for my sister.

She said she is not wearing that top. She's opted not to wear that top.

And my mom snuck it out. I put it on in the garage beside the boiler where you turn the heating on.

And then I put a big shirt on over it and I wore it at the door and then in Mom's car, I took it off and I had the top on. So I was hiding clothes. I was wearing belong to my sister. My mom was helping me in the whole operation to the disco you probably shouldn't have went to. She was dropping me there in the top that my sister didn't want me to. Where did you get away with it?

I got away with it. Oh, she had it wash out like I just had to flee going into her bedroom the next day. So she had it washed and back in my sister's wardrobe, whatever she was actually accomplished.

She was she was amazing.

Thank you so much for sitting down and talking to me today, because it's so interesting. I'm loving hearing everyone else's stories because they're all so different, but we're all united in one thing and and that's grief. And when you talk about your mom, your face does completely light up in a way that I talk about my mom. And it's so nice to see. And I hope you've enjoyed the conversation. And that went because, you know, my whole thing is talking in therapy.

And I really believe that.

And I think if we all spoke a whole lot more about everything in life, I think we'd all feel a whole lot better.

What I hope this conversation has helped you, especially being on your mom's birthday and you've chosen to spend it with us. I really appreciate that.

There's nothing nicer than talking about it for an hour with you. And just before I go, you're in a much raw space and you and your sisters are in your daddy's than I am right now.

It will get better and you will stop shedding tears and you will just laugh about her and her memory and and all the gorgeous things you did together.

And that time is definitely on. Thank you so much. Thank you. You. Though 20 years have passed since Mary lost her mom, I find it so comforting that she still remembers her so well. Her and her sister still talk about her with such a vibrancy. And I know that Married's own children are growing up with a strong sense of who their nana was next week and the season finale of Death Becomes Them.

I talked to Jackie Fox. Jackie's story has been one of the hardest to records. In 2018, Jackie's daughter Nicole tragically died by suicide following years of online and offline bullying and physical abuse. Jackie has experienced such a huge earth shattering loss, but talks to me about her fight to introduce Koko's law and how she's ensuring her daughter's death will never be in vain.

I did see the night before it got really bad and, you know, talking a little bit cocobolo, but then she sent me Herts, which isn't that wasn't unusual for Nicole to do to me because, you know, she's she do things like that for me or, you know, she said nice little things and.

And so I didn't see her the next morning because my dad was sick. He has Alzheimer's. And every Thursday morning I go down and mind my dad. What my mom went shopping. So it wasn't unusual not to see that one. And I came back at twenty past three and I yeah, I came back from it as a turkey baster and I just went in.

I was a little bit late so I grabbed the boy's, I had to drop my sons to work and then go on around and collect my 14 year old and from school and.

Oh, I went to the chipper after I regret I thought would go to the chipper because. I thought if I made out if I just went from this girl straight, how would I have got it?