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That's my ministry, and I know that well about me.

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That's drinkjuni.com, and make sure you use the code onpurpose. Before we jump into this episode, I'd like to invite you to join this community to hear more interviews that will help you become happier, healthier, and more healed. All I want you to do is click on the subscribe button. I love your support. It's incredible to see all your comments and we're just getting started. I can't wait to go on this journey with you. Thank you so much for subscribing. It means the world to me.

The number one health and wellness podcast.

Jay Shetty Jay Shetty, the one, the.

Only Jay Shetty.

Hey everyone. Welcome back to on purpose. Thank you so much for reconnecting every day, every week to become happier, healthier and more healed. One of my favorite things to do is to sit down with people and understand their mindsets, understand how they became who they are and understand what they go through in order to create the work they do. Today's guest is someone that I'm excited to connect with to understand more about his mindset, his approach and his upbringing. The guest is Lil Nas X or Montero, a 24 year old award winning rapper, singer songwriter from Atlanta, Georgia. Dubbed an internationally recognized phenomenon by Billboard, little Nas X rose to fame in 2019 when he released Old Town Road and shattered genre norms, disrupted the charts and went viral worldwide. The song's remix with Billy Ray Cyrus became the longest running number one single in Billboard Hot 100 history and is recognized with numerous awards, including two Grammys. After a highly successful ep and several multiplatinum songs, Nas went on to release his critically acclaimed and Grammy nominated debut album, Montero in September 2021, which featured the culture shifting six times platinum hit Montero, call me by your name.

Following the release of Lil Nas X's latest single, j Christ. His beautiful new documentary, Lil Nas X, Long live Montero, debuted this weekend on HBO and is available to stream now on Max. Please welcome to on Purpose Montero, Lil Nas X. Thank you so much for being here.

I'm happy to be here. I'm happy to talk about stuff.

I'm happy to talk about stuff, too. And I wanted to start off with, I know that you love time travel.

Yeah, yeah.

I heard you were obsessed with time travel. And when I heard that, I was like, that sounds like something I'd love to hear more about. Where does that obsession come from?

Where does that come from? I love the idea that you can go and change anything in the past or go to the future to see what's going on. I guess it's like a form of escapism that I just really enjoy and I like to explore it in my art a lot.

Yeah. Where have you explored changing things in the past? Like, what would be fascinating for you to visual changing in the past?

You know what, when I was younger, I always thought that's something I would want to do. But as I grow older, I don't think I want to change anything in the past. I guess I want to go to the future and maybe ask myself, like, what do I do now? Because that's kind of like where I'm at in my life right now. It's like, what did you do to get to where you are? I know I'm in that place, but I'm not there right now.

Yeah. Where did the fascination come from? Where did it originate from?

Where did it originate from? I say the back to the future two movie, not the first, but the second one. And a lot of family guy episodes when Brian and Stewie go to the past.

One of the things you said in the documentary was you said that Lil Nas X helped you understand more about, you know, the documentary is called Long Live Montero. I wanted to understand from you who is Montero and who's Lil Nas X.

I think Montero was at first, like this very shy, super insecure kid and had big dreams, but I guess was just very afraid of even being like himself and me becoming Lil Nas X. It was almost a Persona. And he could kind of just do whatever he wants, and he can do anything and he can move on to the next thing and not really be pigeonholed to anything.

And he helped Montero morph into that person, if that makes sense.

Yeah, it does make sense. And was Lil Nas X, even if not by name, was that a character and energy that you harnessed when you were young? Was that a feeling you had when you were young? Or was it something that evolved through time?

I think it's something that evolved through time, like, through music. I think my enthusiasm, or just, like, my hunger to grow musically pushes me to do things in my personal life that I would not do. And it's not even just my personal life anymore, because it's, like, public now. And I know if I'm not able to do those things, I can't continue to be Lil Nas X. Or at least that's how it works in my head.

Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people can relate to that. I think we all have the little kid inside of us that's insecure and anxious and doesn't know how people are going to react. And I think we all feel like we wish we had an alter ego or a version of ourselves that was stronger and bolder and more courageous. What kind of qualities does Lil Nas X have that you love and adore?

I feel like Lil Nas X knows.

How to navigate any situation.

He knows how to find his way out of things that may seem very dark and daunting.

And he helps Montero do that.

And I feel like that's one of.

The reason why I call it long.

Live Montero, because I still hope that.

Innocent little boy inside of me remains.

Because I think you need that balance, know that courageous, and you can do whatever. And still scared, fearful, but excited.

Yeah.

So it's not like you're trying to remove the fear. You actually want to protect that innocence.

I want to protect that innocence. And I think it's less like removing the fear and more so being able to do things even when the fearful. And it's like I'm showing the younger me that exists within me, like, you can do this, you can do this, we can do this.

It's going to be scary, but let's.

Go for it and see what happens.

So there was this quote in the documentary where you said, my mind is hardwired since I was a kid, that if you f up one time, you have to quit the whole thing. And my question is, when have you felt that you've done that in life? Or have you ever felt that kind of fear and then pushed through because Lil Nas X came know, after the.

Success of old Town Road and whatnot, I had this dark period of, oh, God, what do I do? And I put out my song holiday.

Right before Montero came out, and it.

Just wasn't living up to what I had hoped for. And I was in a hotel room.

And I was just, like, telling myself.

How much I hate myself, just like, how did you mess this up and how did you get here?

And it's nothing we can do now.

There's no reason for us to be here. And I guess that's like the childish.

Brat inside of me that is not.

Comfortable working from the ground up. And in my introduction to the music.

Industry was already at the top.

It's a hard thing to live from, in a sense. You know what I mean?

Absolutely.

Yeah.

It's the hardest thing to follow up with. One of the most successful drops of all time.

Yeah.

How did you process that?

I knew I was going to do, how I didn't know how I was going to continue, but what it took was me bringing out another side of myself, which was like, montero, call me by your name. And with that, though, I had to.

Let go of this child like innocence.

Like the public had with me, I guess.

Yeah, I want to dive into your childhood. Actually, I was going to ask you what would you believe would be your favorite memory growing up, like, if you were to close your eyes right now and think about Atlanta, Georgia. What's the vision or the visual that comes to mind or your heart that resonates and connects with love?

I went immediately to this one, but I don't even know if it's mine's.

But it's like, me in front of my grandma's house, and I'm just, like.

Running around a tree.

I don't know.

That's beautiful, but I feel like that's one of my first memories.

Yeah.

And it's just like, bliss.

Where was that? Where was the house? What did it look like? What are you seeing?

It was actually an apartment, and it was in Bankhead courts, Atlanta. It was like, basically the hood, you.

Know what I mean? But at that know, everything felt all. Yeah.

And how old are you in this memory?

I feel like I was maybe like five. It was right before the tree got cut down, too.

Yeah. Kind of symbolic in a way.

In what way?

I don't know.

I guess life increasingly became more like real things started to happen within my.

Family life, and also at that time, recognizing even at that age, like my sexuality and whatnot.

And I feel like it became like a rocky ship from that moment.

Is that when you started to become more aware of your sexuality? Was that an age that it started to become?

Yeah, I mean, because that was the age I started to become aware of myself. And it was also, like, becoming aware of the world around me. And it's like, oh, this thing that's really bad that nobody seemed to like, I happen to be that thing, but maybe it's not that bad. But also, God's probably super mad at me, and I don't want God to think I'm, like, being disrespectful or anything. And it's like, you know what I mean?

All those things that I feel like.

I shouldn't be thinking about at, like, six, definitely.

That's a lot. That's heavy to be thinking about at six. Yeah, it's a lot, I think, for anyone to be processing at six years old. It's a lot of things to be questioning. In that memory, you talked about your.

Grandmother, and I know that when your.

Great grandmother passed, that was the first person that was close to you that you lost, and that was when you leaned into music. How old were you when that happened? Considering that memory you have that you just visualize, how old were you when that happened? And how did that make you lean into music.

That actually happened when I was maybe 18.

Wow.

But at that time, my dad had already had custody because I used to live with my grandmother from when I was five until eleven, and I was just like the golden child. I was spoiled and I got so much love, and I was like, I was the baby of the family. So once my dad got custody of us, he played much more hardball kind of vibes. And I didn't see my grandmother as much, but she was still, like, number one person in my heart when I thought about love. And around 16 or so, I was told she had cancer. And it was like this thing that I was like, oh, it can't be true. And I kind of just tried to forget, like, it exists. I'm like, well, she's still alive. Maybe that was just, like denial. Yeah, I think it was, like, a lot of denial. Even when I was around her, noticing.

That she was getting skinnier and looking.

Different, and she would say things, I'd be like, grandma, I love you. And she'd be like, I don't love myself, and stuff like that.

It was.

Really hard to hear and listen to.

This person that you have so much love for. Lose faith in life and just, like.

The world in general. And it's also the person that has took on a role of being the back of the family for so many people. The grandmother, she has the family reunion. She has everybody over for Thanksgiving. She watches the kids. That's a big thing in the black community and whatnot, and now feels cheated by life. And I guess I could feel that through the way she would carry herself at that time. And so it was really hard once she passed, and it was something I tried to brush over.

Yeah, it's interesting. I actually lost my uncle when I was around your age at that time, and he also was diagnosed with throat cancer. And I was really close to my uncle. He taught me how to drive. He helped me get my first job. He used to own, like, a news shop and sell newspapers and stuff. So he would, like, let me work out and work in the shop and make a little pocket money. And then when he died, it was really interesting for me because I was getting more into spirituality at the time, and he was really angry that I was getting into spirituality, and so he was so mad at me. And when he was really, really unwell, he'd be like, I hope you're not going to get spiritual, and I hope that's not going to be your path. And so he was kind of losing that positive spark. He was always like this positive energy. And then towards the end of his life, he was more angry than anything else. And it was an interesting experience going from someone that, again, loved me so much, helped me so much. Someone that I was very close to, to then feeling like he actually didn't like who I was becoming.

How did you feel your grandmother's love evolved for you?

Sorry for.

Sorry about that.

Oh, no, thank you. You inspired me to be vulnerable and share it back with you because I guess we both lost someone that we cared about at a similar time, but yeah. How did your grandmother's love evolve for you from that five to eleven age when you were living with her? How do you think she loved you that stayed with you?

I guess that's like, afterwards, during the time both. My grandmother's one of those things that.

She really loved when life, I guess.

Wasn'T great, like, where we lived and our financial situation and just like, what comes with getting older in life. I got all the love, I got all the love. And sadly, my siblings got the other end of that stick, I guess.

And.

Around the time my dad got custody of us, I didn't feel like that special talent anymore, which is probably good for my young ego, like, feeling like I had to be like that one all the time. And I guess I kind of stopped seeing my grandmother as much. I'd go over there, like a lot of the weekends and whatnot, but it was just like the thing that I can't be there anymore.

And then eventually she passed away and.

It was just like, just very confusing.

Do you remember the first song that you made after her passing or any music that came from that?

I made a song called, like, carry on.

And it was pretty much about how.

I felt, like, very selfish about not.

Being there when she passed away, when.

I was supposed to be there that day. But I was so stuck on social media, you know what I mean? And I was so really into twitter and trying to build that, even though I know my grandmother's on her last days. And it was just like, I just felt like, very selfish because it was like this person has showed you so much love, showing you so much love.

And you're not there because you're trying.

To get these people's attention online.

Yeah, I think a lot of people can relate to that, too. You get so obsessed with your career or a direction or a path, and it's working and it's winning and there's momentum, and you were young when that happened for you. But a lot of people into their thirty s forty s, fifty s will attest to that and put their hand up and say they've done that where they've over prioritized their career to their relationships. How has that shifted, how you've lived since then? Like that reflection or realization that you've had?

I'll be honest, I'll say I was.

Still kind of like that way up until these last maybe two years of, I guess, my break from music or whatnot.

I've started to really, actually cherish being.

With my family and stuff because it's like these people are growing up so fast. My nieces and nephews, you see that on tv and you feel like it's like, cliche or whatnot. But it happens so fast. And I feel like the older I get, the faster these years somehow go by, pretty much.

That's a wise realization to have at 24, I'll tell you that. That's early. I think most people that I speak to again, like you're saying, we hear the cliche, we see it. But I'd say most people don't get to that realization until they're, like, 30, 40, maybe even later on in life. It's a weird one because you kind of feel like you'll be the exception. Yeah, right. Like, everyone feels like they'll be the exception. Maybe their life will go slower. They'll have time for everything. There was another line in the documentary that really resonated with me. There were so many things. I can't wait for everyone to watch the documentary, honestly, because as someone who knew your music was aware of you, I felt like I got really invited into your stream of consciousness during it. And I so appreciated. I found your thinking out loud to be extremely comforting, even though we've never met each other and we don't know each other. And there are so many things that you said where I was like, oh, I can relate to that in some way. And this was another one you said, a lot of the times when I'm scared, it's when I'm about to do something that will change my life drastically.

And I was going to ask you, what scares you the most right now, or what do you feel fearful about right now that you think might be on the verge of changing your life drastically?

My name's Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, and host of the Laverne Cox show. You may remember my award winning first season. I've been pretty busy, but there's always time to talk to incredible guests about important things.

People like me have been screaming for years, we gotta watch the supreme Court. What they're doing is wrong. What they're doing is evil. They will take things away. And I can only hope that Dobbs is that, like Pearl harbor moment? Girl, you and I both know what it took to just get through the.

Day in New York City and get home in one piece.

And so the fact that we're here and what you've achieved and what you.

Know, that's momentous, it's not just us sitting around complaining about some bills. The only reason that you might think, as Chase said, that we're always miserable is because people are constantly attacking us and we're constantly noticing it.

Listen to the Laverne Cox show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Be sure to subscribe and share.

Do you lay awake scrolling at bedtime or awake in the middle of the night and struggle to fall back to sleep? Start sleeping better tonight. I'm Catherine Nikolai, and my podcast, nothing much happens. Bedtime stories to help you sleep has helped millions of people to get consistent, deep sleep. I tell family friendly bedtime stories that train you to drift off and return to sleep quickly, and I use a few sleep inducing techniques along the way that have many users asleep within the first three minutes. I hear from listeners every day who have suffered for years with insomnia, anxiety at nighttime, and just plain old busy brain who are now getting a full night's sleep every night. I call on my 20 years of experience as a yoga and meditation teacher to create a soft landing place where you can feel safe and relaxed and get excellent sleep. Listen to nothing much happens bedtime stories to help you sleep with Catherine Nikolai on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to the Overcomfort podcast with Jennica Lopez. Yep, that's me. You may know my late mom, Jenny Rivera, my queen. She's been my guiding light as I bring you a new season of Overcomfort podcast. This season, I'll continue to discover and encourage you and me to get out of our comfort zones and choose our calling. Join me as I dive into conversations that will inspire you, challenge you, and bring you healing. We're on this journey together. I'm opening up about my life and telling my story in my own words. Yes, you'll hear it from me first before the Cheeseman lands on your social media feed. If you thought you knew everything, guess again. So I took another test with ancestry, and it told me a lot about who I am. And it led me to my biological father and everyone here. My friends laugh, but I'm puerto rican. Listen to the Overcome for podcast with Jennica Lopez as part of Michael Turan Podcast Network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

I think just like my place right now, in my actual career, in these last couple of weeks, I've never been.

Here mentally and actually physically, where you've.

Been so focused and zoned in on.

What you're doing, and you push your art out into the world and it's.

Kind of like received negatively by the majority, you know what I mean? But then also understanding why and having to see it through. So I guess that's where I'm at right now and my next move, the things that I'm planning on right now, I feel like somewhere in here there's going to be this magical moment that I can't even take credit for. Yeah, I feel like that's going to squeep. I feel like that always happens.

Yeah. There's always magic in the messiness.

Yeah.

But it's not fun.

No, not at all. It's been a lot.

Yeah, no, we'll get to that as well. There was another line that kind of sparks what you just said. Now, you said you talk about wanting a little bit of chaos. Like, there's a part of you that likes a little bit of chaos. And I was going to ask you, what does positive chaos look like to montero and what does negative chaos look like?

I think that the thing is, it's.

Usually when I can control it. I don't think I have the grip on controlling it. I feel like it does a lot of what it wants.

Yeah.

I'm usually strategic with things and I can kind of move the conversation, but that's the chaos I like.

Yeah, it's kind of like a kid that starts a fire and it's under control as opposed to a forest fire.

This is not my chaos, but yeah, I like to keep things interesting or whatnot and lead the conversation around it.

Yeah. I think all of us love that and I appreciate the honesty. I think we all love chaos that's under control and that we can control drama that we can control. But then as soon as it. And it's funny because it always starts like that, right? Like even a forest fire starts because there was a little controllable fire, but then it spread really, really fast. And that feeling of things leaving your grip is like the most uncomfortable feeling in the world when you feel something just like it's the worst. It's the worst feeling ever. When you feel that way, when you've created something and then it takes a life of its own, you've experienced it positively and challengingly. How do you process that? Or how do you allow yourself to be okay with creating something controlled? And then it becomes fully chaotic and.

Out of your allow it. It can get almost, like, depressing, but actually depressing. And you can become super angry with yourself, as I said earlier, or whatnot. It gets that deep.

Yeah, because you said recently, and as you brought up the last two weeks, you said you felt like you really messed up this time. And I was like. And you were saying that it affected your mental health, right? Like, it really felt like it affected your mental health. And I'm like, why did you feel that way? And in what way does it affect your mental health?

I already kind of, like, explained the situation in that video, but it was this thing that artistically was just supposed to be like, I'm returning. I'm back like him. You know what I mean? And it turned into this whole thing.

Where it was me trying to dunk.

On christians or something, and that was never what it was. And then I looked at the video with me eating the communion or whatnot, and I was like, okay, this looks really bad on paper, this thing that I thought was just like a little jokey, fun video. I also had to think about how many of my family members are creating, like, my grandmothers and stuff and aunties and things like that. I'm like, wow, do they see this as that, too? If they do, that's really messed up.

And it made me sad.

And then on top of that, seeing actual fans turn and say, like, whoa, why is he doing this? Why does he keep messing with these people? And I think another thing was, messages got turned around because one got turned around. The idea of Montero call me by name, which is me, like, taking ownership of this place. Everybody tells me I'm going to go. And that was just turned into, oh, he's teaching Christianity a lesson when that's not the know. And now this thing was like, oh, I'm Jesus. I'm back. Like Jesus. Which, if anything, it's like homage to Jesus. Like this guy that made the greatest comeback of all time. And I'm not the first artist to do such a thing. That message turned around and I didn't know how to do anything with it. It wasn't my chaos anymore. It was the world's. And anything anybody said was true because that's who I am as a person. I'm this troll, and I want to make these people mad, and so everybody can run with that, and there's nothing I can do about that. I can say as many things as.

I want, but knowing my history, they look right.

I look wrong.

Yeah. Well, I think the way you addressed it and you're addressing it right now is helpful and useful to people, because I think it came across very clearly to me, and it does today, too. Even sitting with you, it's not something you're trying to disrespect or mark. But for people who feel that way, what would you say to them? Like, for someone who feels that that is what it is, how would you say to them? Yeah, what would you want them to hear? It's probably a better question.

You know what's crazy? I feel like I've said, I apologize for the communion thing. On that note, everything else I am not sorry about. I don't think I did anything wrong. You know what I mean? And it's like I've also been making a lot of gospel music to God and my spiritual side. And I hate that this whole thing gets turned into a mockery, which it isn't.

Thank you for sharing that. I appreciate it. And I think there's also, like, I was going to actually. Maybe that's a good thing to talk about. Obviously, your father's a gospel singer, right?

Yeah.

I would love for you to talk about your relationship with your father to give kind of context to the conversation we're having right now, because I'm not sure how many people are aware of your deep christian roots. So walk us through some of your relationship with your father and how that's evolved, which comes across in the documentary, for sure.

I feel like me and my father have grown closer as I got older because the version of me that he saw wasn't really me. It was the version that I presented to him.

So as I've come out and whatnot.

Even before I came out, though, my dad, when I initially came out to my dad, he was just like, the devil may be tempting me or whatnot. And it's definitely taken its own journey, because now my dad, it's like, yo, do you have a boyfriend? Kind of vibe? You could tell me about that stuff. You can let me know that. He even came with me to a gay club with my brothers and sisters one time. Just, like, dancing and stuff. It's been a complete one.

How does that feel? Because from going from coming out to your parents and your father saying, yeah, that is a really extreme, obviously, reaction on one end. And now coming with you to a gay club, how does that transition even. A, how does that transition happen? B, how does that feel?

I feel like it was an overtime thing. And also him learning me as a person, I feel like him seeing me in interviews and stuff like that was like the same for everybody else. I feel like the entire world started to see me. My brothers and sisters, my family, everybody started to see me at the same time. You know what I mean? I feel like before that, I was just very meek about everything. So over time, with call me by your name coming out and the entire montero album roll out, and me inviting him and listening to my songs on my last album, that's how he learned about me. And I feel like him hearing me from my own mouth and in the world and seeing me in the world help him understand me more. And I feel like over time, he was like, okay, I understand now. You know what I mean?

It feels like you've also always had this compassion for people who don't always understand you. Even when you say, when you first told your father and he had that reaction of maybe the devil's tempting you, you actually understood that there was a part of you that went, oh, I get that. And then there's other parts in the documentary. True. When you have protesters outside, and again, you're like, I'm actually happy that they have something that they belong to and they stand for. There's a compassion and context that you seem to have. Even when you're the one who's trying to express yourself, you can see how it's hard for people to digest that. Would that be fair to say?

For sure.

I mean, the truth is, I feel like over the last couple of years, I've learned not everybody is against you, is just like against you. There's a lot of learned things. A lot of things. Over time, people have latched onto it in their brains. It's hard to let go of. So they see you as this way because of something that was far beyond their control. Things they've been taught since they grew up, my dad has been taught and shoved in his head, and everybody in the world, we all have ideals put into our brains. And I don't want to try to be a thing where it's easy to.

Paint people who don't like you as.

Haters or just evil and bigot and whatnot, but it's like these people just.

Genuinely don't understand you.

And inside of their mind, it's like fear.

It's like fear, and it's like discomfort.

And there's all these things that the human mind wants to run from. And I understand that because I still have those things.

Yeah, we all see things in others that we don't understand. And as soon as we don't understand something, the most human emotion is to feel fear. Any sort of change makes us feel fear, any sort of uncertainty. And so if someone, we look at someone and we feel uncertain about them, it generally sparks fear. That's how we've almost been conditioned as humans to just feel fear. And so, as you've said before, you said, some people see me as the satanic devil that is going to ruin the world. When you say things like that, what are you actually trying to do when people see you that way? What I'm interested in is when people see you that way, what are you actually trying to portray that sometimes gets seen that way?

It's more so taking all these things.

That I believe have been used to.

Demonize me and a lot of other people and these conspiracies. And it says, okay, this is what this looks like. Is this what you actually want to see? You know what I mean? Is this who you think I am? Okay, I'm going to do those things. I'm going to do those things. You think I'm like this, so I'm going to do these things.

When you're building a new album, building a new song, making a music video, what's your artistic process? Where does it start? What happens? Is it you taking notes? Is it journaling? Is it working with your team, your dancers? How does new work get created in Montero's world?

Can we pause for a second?

Yeah, of course we can. Of course we can.

Yeah. Okay.

Yeah, I'm with you.

I want to step outside.

Of course you can. Of course you can. Yeah, absolutely. Of course you can, man. Of course you can. Let's open up there. Take your time.

Got you're.

What would you like to say? Where is your heart?

Well, first I'll say what I said there. I'm trying to be authentic and say words from my heart, but I feel like it ends up sounding rehearsed and I guess, yeah, I'm trying to get.

There, but, yeah, I'm doing my best.

But we can move from this.

Yeah. And all you could ever be asked for is doing your best. Can't ask for anything more. And I think.

We'Re kind of all in that pressure of trying to be authentic selves.

But then there's that famous meme on social media that I see all the time that says, society says, be yourself. And then society says, no, not like that. And I think we all kind of spent some time.

That's authentic.

That's true. Yeah.

Society doesn't really want people to be like themselves and stuff like that. Just, like, to a degree.

Yeah. We want everyone to be authentic in a way that makes us feel good.

The truth is, if everyone was authentic, oh, boy, this world would be insane.

What would it be like?

It would have some great things, but definitely, like, some terrible things, too.

Yeah. So it's probably better that everyone's a little less authentic. It's an interesting conversation. Authenticity is an interesting conversation.

I think it depends on what you see as better. Like, positive and light. Does that automatically equals better? Because I feel like some dark things help bring light.

Balance. Yeah.

It's almost like, I feel like even internally, when you're doing the work, shadow.

Work and stuff like that, you have to go through a lot of darkness. You got to understand what you are capable of and who you are and decide not to do that bad that you could do.

Yeah.

Do you do a lot of inner work? I know you became spiritual and you got involved in a bit of your own spirituality. What does that look like, exploring your own spirituality? What does that look like in your definition, in your words?

Yeah, I do a lot of inner work and understanding who I am, but also. And trying to let go of the pressures of, I guess, what I feel like society a lot of times will want me to be, like, this big, brave champion for the community, which I can't be at all times. You know what I mean? I just want to do me sometimes. Of course, I want to do what I can, but I want it to come naturally.

Is there a lot of pressure? Sometimes it feels like to always have to be. I was joking about it with someone else the other day. Like, whenever I'm around someone, I always feel the pressure that I have to say something wise, because that's the kind of. And so when I'm around someone, it's kind of like being around a comedian and they have to be funny.

Yeah, I think it's exactly that. I think it's exactly that. Even with the funny thing sometimes, because I'm an online troll and stuff, I'm like, I don't want to be funny right now. I don't know. I want to eat this food and not really talk to you. I want to scroll on my phone a little bit and eat this food. But the whole thing, even with Montero still riding on my back, like we're talking about it right now, and me featuring the video and stuff, and it's like, that's just what I want to do. I'm not always trying to make a deep message, I guess, if that makes sense.

Yeah. So sometimes you're just trying to have fun.

Not even just trying to have fun.

A lot of things I do, most.

Things through my art are for me.

And just thankfully, other people can see.

It as helping them.

It's coming as a form of self healing and self expression, and then if.

It connects with people, I pray it connects with you.

Yes, but I don't not.

I'm not trying to be a martyr, if that makes sense.

Yeah, I mean, Rick Rubin was here a few months ago, and he was saying something similar. He was saying that he thinks that true art and true creativity is not made for consumption, in that it is consumed and it is loved and it is connected with. But it wasn't created thinking, well, how are we going to find the thing that connects? It's creating something that comes from within. Would you agree with that? Does that hold true?

Agree completely. I like Rick Rubin.

Yeah.

I like his book. I only skimmed through it, but I like it.

Yeah, it's a great book. When do you feel you're connected to your most authentic 360 self? Like, what are you doing when you feel that way? Because I know in the documentary, it seemed like when you're with your dancers, who are also your friends, that felt like a form of self expression and connectedness, where you feel like you can let go and be funny and be larger than life and be creative. Would you say that's where it comes through?

I'd say if anything, it's when I'm creating music.

And I guess that's like the thing.

That an artist should say or whatnot. But it's the truth. When I'm making a song and when I can completely let go of how.

It'S going to be received, I just feel like one.

I feel like everything has come to me. All of my energy is not like, all out into the world. I feel like just one being connected to everything. It's a feeling like I can't describe. No amount of success will ever equate to it. I don't know if I'll ever find love that strong. I hope so.

But, yeah, I think that's the thing we're all looking for, right? We're all searching for. And it's almost like you can't manufacture it. Like, you can't engineer it. Either happens or it doesn't.

You can't fake it.

Yeah.

You feel it sometimes, and sometimes you don't.

Yeah. You said you wanted to stay the acceptable gay person at first, and you didn't want to be the one that shoves it down everyone's throats. And then now we're talking about, again, being authentic. I think we're always trying to play again to what people around us wanting to be, and then it comes out. How did you kind of. No, no, I'm not going to do that. I am going to allow myself to free myself.

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I feel like it's a push and know, because, of course, there's still parts of me know, want to please the people around. Mean, I feel like that's the whole idea of something being successful. A lot of the times we got to make sure it's packaged enough to be authentic but also able to be digestible at the same time.

I almost feel like that's where we're all trying to this. You said something that resonated with me. I was going to read something from F. Scott Fitzgerald. And so he has this beautiful quote that I'm fully obsessed with right now when I look at you as an is, and you can reflect on how you feel about it. So he said that the test of a first rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in the mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function. In his words, one should, for example, be able to see that things are hopeless, yet be determined to make them otherwise. But the way I'm reflecting on you is this idea of, like, you want to be doing things that are for the self, but then at the same time, it needs to connect to people. You want to be able to be who you are with your friends and your family, and you realize that sometimes you got to tone down parts of yourself, but then sometimes you don't want to. We're constantly trying to. All of us are trying to be two things, almost.

Yeah, for sure.

Why is it so hard then?

I don't know.

And I feel like that goes back.

Into the whole thing of like, we.

Are not in control completely of things. No matter what you do, how much preparation or whatnot, it's not something you control. Like, people are going to love stuff or they won't.

Absolutely. You said about love there. You mentioned how does finding love play a role in your life when.

This.

Year is the first year since 2021 that I'm going to be open to finding love?

Because I was kind of very closed off to it.

It's like, no, I need to focus. I have really big dreams I don't want to share with everybody. Yeah, I have really big dreams.

And it's like I feel like anything.

That I can see as a distraction can get in my way, but at the same time, like that whole contradicting thing, love can help inspire you to make even greater art. But I wanted to just have my phase of being young and having fun.

With a lot of people, if you.

Know what I mean.

Yeah, absolutely. I know what you mean. But don't you think, again, it's interesting, right? It is daunting. I agree with you. And yet I find that most people, of course, everyone's have a good time. I'm like that, too. I love laughing. I love having a great time. And at the same time, again, talking about the paradox or the contradiction. I also want to have meaningful connections because the last thing I want to do is have a superficial, artificial conversation with someone. So it's funny how the things we find daunting are often things that even that person's kind of yearning for. I don't think anyone's ever had a really deeply meaningful conversation and then walked away from it going, that was a waste of time, right? You're never going to say that. I had a dinner with someone in London recently, and it was a group of us in a similar industry, and everyone was being vulnerable and we were laughing and connecting, but everyone's sharing their pains, and we walked away, and no one was walking away going, God, that was the worst dinner. Yeah, everyone's going, that's one of the best dinners we've ever had.

And I find that with artists, it's hard to have that. I guess it's hard to find that. And so do you feel like the dancers away, you find that? Is that a place of safety and a place of joy?

I feel like that's definitely a place of joy. And I don't get super serious with them, or barely, like, anyone for that matter.

Only me.

Yeah, for sure. I feel like I share most of my therapy sessions at home alone with myself and my cats in the distance. But, yeah, talking out loud to myself when all the voices in my head are saying, like, the most crazy, terrible things you would ever hear a person say, it's useful. It's helpful.

How ridiculous can the voice inside your head get? How far will it go?

Ridiculous as in that time that I told you about the hotel incident. It's easy when you're down or in a hard place for all those voices in your head to gang up. And it's like, okay, this is the time. It's like, everybody go. And talking out loud can be that saving grace of a factor. Like, no, this isn't that bad. This thing isn't that terrible. We're going to get out of this thing. We've been through worse. We will go through worse. So we got to make sure we get out of this thing so we can know about the worst. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

So, yeah, that helps a lot.

That's a great technique. Yeah, I fully agree. I think when you're lost in your head and in the silence, oh, my gosh, you have no idea which voice to follow, which voice to let lead.

It's the worst when you're like, oh, this terrible voice has a point. This one's saying something maybe I should listen to. It's like, no, he's not. That's a terrible idea.

Have you ever used that technique where you label certain voices that you see as recurring and you give them a name and a way? Because they say that that's a great technique of your inner critic, like giving it a name, giving it a personality? Have you noticed certain ones that keep coming back?

I don't give them a name, per se, but as I said, I'm a spiritual being, and I feel like, just like me, I have my thoughts, my wants, and my purpose. That voice in my head was created by the universe. It has a job, and I think its job is to give me just enough to fight against. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

So it's like, I don't hate this voice. It's like, you're part of me. We're one. We're together. We're in this together. You're doing your thing. I'm trying to do my thing, but I can't listen to you on this.

That's powerful, the ability to not. Yeah, there's that famous saying that says the more you resist, it persists. It just keeps persisting if you keep kind of buttoning heads against it. And what you're saying is, actually, I don't hate it. I recognize it.

I see. I know that's your thing. That's literally why you're here. I can't be mad at you for fulfilling your purpose.

You do have that quality, like, that ability to recognize that everything has its place and everyone has their place. Where does that come from?

The compassionate parts of me trying to make sense of everything. I feel like it's so easy to label everything as, like, a demon or just like a terrible, just, like, dark thing, but it's like this thing. It exists, it has emotions, and it has feelings, just like you, and it's just trying to do its thing.

There was this one statement that reminds me of what you're saying now. You said people feel a lot of things about me, but, boy, do I love this kid in the dark. How is that journey of, I love this little Montero, this kid inside of me. How is that developed? What has that taken for you to get to a place of being able to say that, like, I love this kid? Because I think that's a journey we're all on.

And it's like something everybody knows, but we forget a lot, but we're literally just all like the same person in a different life path, you know what I mean? And once I can really just understand and recognize that every single person has these thoughts or a form of these thoughts that I have in my head, I know I shouldn't feel bad about where I am or what I think and what I'm doing because that's what this version of me is doing. That's where I am. And I have to love him through it and understand that he's going to make these mistakes and he's going to have accomplishments and he's going to have great times and he's going to have bad times and he's going to do amazing things and he's going to do terrible things. And it's like I have to allow him to grow through that. And me joining the world or anybody else in being hard on this kid is not going to help.

Yeah, I was just saying the other day, I was saying to someone, you can't guilt yourself into growth.

It's impossible.

Like, you can't shame yourself or embarrass yourself into becoming better. When was the last time you made someone feel guilty and they were like, yeah, I'm going to be the best person in the world now. It doesn't work that way.

Yeah. I think cliche as it is, love.

Is really the answer for that.

How does it feel? I know you're going to go today or tomorrow to show your family the documentary. How does that make you feel for them to be able to see this?

I think you want to be very self conscious the whole time. Yeah. Just like, oh my God, what are they thinking about this? I've said things in this documentary that they've never heard me say or my perspective on a lot of different things and even them talking about them and how I feel close or not close with them.

Yeah, it's a lot. Although it comes across, I'm hoping in a way that they can digest it. There's a lot of love you have for your nephew and your relationship, of him not wanting to see you differently. How is that relationship progressed? Because how old is he?

He's young, he's eleven. He's about to be twelve this year. I feel like he's one of the only people in my family that calls me like 24/7 wow. And I just really appreciate that because before they get to their age where they're just too cool and whatnot, I'm happy to have that person that still, I don't know, is inspired by me or still loves me all the same throughout everything.

What will he say? To you when he's calling you up, what is he doing? What's a twelve year old say?

You know, kids, like, he will call and kind of just say, yo, what's up? And then just be silent for a minute. Yeah, I've been on Fortnite and stuff like this, like kid stuff. And I love that it makes things much smaller because in my head, while I have all these things that I feel like are the big grandest problems of my life and blah, blah, blah, he's like, in school, like, trying to get his grade up in science. You know what I mean? It's like these things.

Yeah.

It keeps me down to earth.

It's like when my mom calls me up and I've been doing whatever crazy thing, and then she's like, have you eaten today? That's all she gets, little stuff.

She's like, makes Everything.

Have you had your lunch? Like, have you taken your vitamins? That's what my mom will say to me. And I'm like, mom, I'm at the White House, or whatever it is. She's just like, yeah, have you had your vitamins? It's the best thing, though. Yeah. It keeps you grounded, keeps you connected. And you're right. So often we just start getting lost in this big vision of what we're doing and what we're creating, and it kind of just pops the bubble. They come along and just.

Yeah.

It's not that it makes it much, like, smaller and easier to maintain in a way.

Yeah. You said something about the family that really resonated. You said, how can we get everyone in a house within five years without me paying for it? And I was like, what does that new level of relationship, of desire mean to you? What are you trying to create there? Or where does that thought come from?

I feel like that opens a bigger question or current problem in my life. I'm not a little boy anymore.

I'm a grown man, and I have.

To take on this leadership role. And I feel like once you break society down, everything is still like tribes and whatnot. And I have tribes on my family. This is my tribe or my team around me in my career. This is my tribe.

I have to get in the front.

Of this and try to figure things out and try to understand how do these people work best? How can I get you to doing your best thing and how can I get you to doing your best thing so we can all progress? Because, of course, I got to get myself right first before I do anything. But it's like, also, I have to understand, how can I help you? I'm in this place. I believe the universe sent me here to try to fix things. It's like, how do I build your confidence up? Like with my brothers and sisters? How do I build your confidence up? Us, all these people that grew up in these places where we've been told over and over in our life by even each other and our family members.

And the world that we're not, how.

Do I get you the confidence to chase your own dream? Or if your dream is not something like, you know, how do I get you to, I don't know, be on my team and just something where you're happy? And it's so hard to get people organized and organize things and realize that this is something I have to do, because if I don't do it, it may not get done. You know what I mean? But, yeah, I'm at that place where I'm trying to figure that out.

Yeah, I can understand that it's hard because you got so many roles on your team. Then there's family, there's friends coming up. It's hard. And it's hard to put everyone on, too. I mean, I've spoken to so many people who today, like top musicians, artists, actors, who've had that years ago where friends wanted to move from their hometown and come and join the team. And then sometimes they didn't want to put in the work, and sometimes they did, and sometimes they made it. Like, I know a friend of mine who's this person used to seat people at his shows 30 years ago, and today she's directing documentaries with him.

That's amazing.

Right? And it's like a beautiful journey, and it's amazing for them to have. But then on the other end, you've also got friends who were given a route out, but then they let the money and the fame and the drugs and alcohol and everything consume them, and you recognize, it's almost like you can only give people opportunities, but they've got to take them for themselves.

Yeah.

And that's hard to come to grips with. You can give as many speeches or talks or as much guidance as you want, but it's just so hard to help some people up.

Yeah, it is. But that's something that feels important to you.

Yeah, something that feels important. It's also something that. It crushes you a little bit back to that whole factor of, you can't control this thing. There's nothing you can do about this.

Yeah. I feel like this is not a question that me and you can solve here at all, because it is almost a question of life.

But it's like, how do we deal.

With our lack of control every day? How do we deal with the fact that we can't control things? Or how do you deal with the fact that you can't control everything on all of these areas?

Yeah.

Have you found any coping mechanisms?

I have.

Oh, cool. Okay.

I have one main coping mechanism, and it's so silly, but it helps me through life a lot. I'm excited, and it's like, dude, you're a gummy bear. And I know it doesn't make sense.

I love gummy bears. I'm listening.

But it's like all of this.

Is in our head. It's all like a journey.

In the grand scheme of things, as.

This individual, I am just a gummy bear. It's not that serious. It's not that deep. Keep moving forward. Of course it's a contradiction because it's everything to me. It means everything to me. It's my whole being. But I'm also a gummy bear, so it doesn't really matter if this thing doesn't matter. Like, dude, relax. So it's like a fight between those two. But me being a gummy bear is, like one of the only things that's going to get me through this really hard thing that I'm fighting or facing. You know what I mean?

Yeah, I like that. I've never heard it put that way. So I like it. I like that. It'silly. That idea of embracing our own insignificance. It's like we have our significance. We know what we're doing is important, but at the same time, we got to embrace the insignificance of the irrelevance.

Yeah. Relax. It's not that serious. It's super serious, but it's not that serious.

That's a funny conversation inside, for sure.

Yeah.

There was another thing that came up was you said that if I settle into a house, I feel like I'll have to be there forever. And it was this idea of, like, there's a shot in the documentary with all your suitcases there and you're not sure about the couch. And I was wondering, where does the fear of being somewhere forever come from?

I think it's like the whole idea of becoming comfortable. And of course, I do have couches and stuff now. I have a new couch, and I have my cats, which I was very hesitant to do, but I was very afraid of getting super comfortable with my Hollywood life. I have my house and stuff. And now I'm going to get all my grammys over here, and I'm going to put my couch right there. And here's my Mona Lisa painting. Like, stuff like that. I was very fearful that once I did that, I'm just going to relax all the time. But now I see it differently. It's like I want to relax sometimes to keep myself sane. And I am going to put my house together because there's nothing wrong with that. And I have to live because, as I said, this goes by so fast. I'm 24, like, going on 25, and I feel like two days ago I was 19.

Yeah. I feel like your home has to be a sanctuary for you. Whatever that means for you. It fills and fuels you up for the crazy life you live. Because I'm sure you're going on tour again. You will go on multiple tours across your lifetime. The time that you are spending there, you want it to be comfortable. You want it to be reenergizing. What does that look to you? What does rest look like for you now? What does taking a break look like to you? Because you are someone who's ambitious and hardworking and driven. But now, to get back up on.

That, I think I have one main thing, and it's super simple. It's going to see a movie. I like to go and see a movie, like, I don't know, once, maybe twice, sometimes even three times, like a week. And that's like my escapism moment or like my moment of rest or away from everything during my time, when I dropped the artwork for my last single, and it was like a hellscape, I went to see this movie called migration, which is like this animated movie about birds, like, flying places, and it's just like this fun, child like movie. And I was there. I was in that movie. That was my rest. That was my peace. That was my sense. You know what I mean?

Yeah. I love going to the movies, too. Was that the most recent thing you saw? Was there anything else that kind of. What's been the best movie you've seen this year with the oscars are coming up, too?

I want to see, like, poor things, but it was very dark, but very dark.

What was it like? I haven't seen it yet.

What was it like? Yeah, it was like Emma Stone just giving an amazing performance. It was also like this movie that was so weird. Nothing like what I've seen before. Like, very aster like vibes. You know what mean.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm glad you're not giving away. I really want to.

I don't want to give away the entire.

I really want to see it. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. I love going to movies too. I'm a big, big. I loved Oppenheimer last year. Have you seen that yet?

I saw Oppenheimer, but it wasn't for me. It wasn't for me.

I'm a Nolan fan, Christopher Nolan fan. And every movie he makes, I'm like, I love it when, well, Oppenheimer I got more of. Tenet was the one that was the hardest one to get. I don't know if you ever saw.

I like Tenet. I didn't get it, but I like, yeah, yeah.

He makes movies. I love his movies because he's always creating things where it's not set up to be consumed. Like the average movie.

You have to think about it.

Yeah.

You got to look up and go on a forum or something and try to understand it.

Yeah, I'm that guy, like looking at every little graphic, explaining the time frame and everything else that comes with it. Montero, what is it that, what are you excited about over the next twelve months for you? What's something that's inspiring pulling you and pushing you forward right now for the next twelve months?

I think the main thing I'm focused on is picking myself up out of this hole that I feel that I'm in, you know what I mean?

And trying to figure out which songs.

Out of the hundreds or whatnot I've been working on suit me best for going forward.

Yeah.

And what does that process look like? How do you actually do that? In an actionable, practical way, I guess.

Trying to feel which ones feel real to me and back to the other thing, but are also consumable, you know what I mean?

Yeah. And how do you judge that? Because I guess as an artist even, are you just trusting intuition? Is there data? Is there prayer? What is that?

Intuition? Plus, I feel like spiritual signs.

Yeah, walk me through the spiritual signs. I like that.

For example, in my last song, my last single, j Christ. I was kind of hesitant. I was like, is this where I'm going to get me to the next place? And every time I would think about it, I would magically see a cross in the distance or something like that. I was like, okay, this is a part of my journey. This is something. This is a threshold I have to cross through to get to the other side. Or for example, another one. And I was worried about releasing calling by your name. I'm just like, oh my God. I don't know if I should. And then good days by sizzle comes on the radio, and I'm just like. And then the most beautiful sunrise happens at the exact same time. I'm just like, okay. You know what I mean? And I guess it's like things that are in everyday life, but I don't mistake that for just being everyday life.

Like this is meant to be.

This has to happen this way.

When did you start looking for those or noticing those in your life?

I think when I first moved to LA and I felt like, know, I felt like I was talking to my angels. It was like magic, you know what mean? Like seeing angel numbers. Like, I believe in angel numbers a lot. I'll give you a story. So I'm, like, sitting at this cafe. It's breakfast time, old town road, you know, just hit, like, number one, the charts. I'm already thinking in my head, though, I'm moving to LA. I'm not going to really be super with my family and whatnot. I'm going to do my own thing now. And I started seeing this number, and then I looked up what the number meant and it was like, you need to bring your family together, basically. It was like, you need to spend more time with your family to bring your family together. I was like, no, I don't think I'm going to do that. And I just started seeing that number over and over and over.

And I called my siblings.

I was like, I want to have our first, what's it called? Family reunion. And I did that thing and I started seeing a different number and I looked up what that number meant and it was just like, you're on the right path. And I kept seeing that number over and over. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

So it was something like that.

Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah. And that's been almost a discovery for you as opposed to something you were taught or trained or heard or learned. It's been self taught, almost.

Yeah. And it's also something that felt very real because at that time, I wasn't spiritual at all. I didn't believe in any of the stuff, and I was just like, okay, yeah, I see. I feel like you guys are there. I don't understand you completely.

And what are you like when you can't see the sign or you can't find the answer? Is there something that helps you kind of realign or reconnect?

I feel like at that point, I.

Just have to trust what I feel in my heart, and I feel like there's a common sense when I know something is right.

There'S.

Like a washing of. Okay, this is good.

I can't explain it.

Yeah, I get that.

Yeah.

I mean, that's the beauty of trying to explain in words things that are experienced intangibly. Right. It's hard. It's challenging. But I think anyone who's. I know a lot of our community and our audience is able to see signs or knows what their signs are and their experiences and what they are. And I officiated a wedding in December, and the individual who's getting married always loves the color blue and sees her father's presence as a butterfly. And when I was leading the ceremony, there was a moment in the ceremony that I asked everyone to close their eyes and meditate with us. And then we opened our eyes, and some of us still had our eyes closed, and a blue butterfly literally just flew right through the garden. There was only one. It wasn't like we were in a butterfly park or something like that. And I can see that you can sense your billy. And it was beautiful. It was one of those moments where everyone afterwards, like, did you see the blue butterfly? Because they know how important it is to the bride. And it was just this magical moment for her to have her father's presence at her wedding, who is no longer with us.

Yeah, it was really special. So, yeah, I think for those who are on that path, who are aware of those things, I'm sure they'll resonate with what you're.

Yeah.

Yeah. It's beautiful. Montero, we end every episode with a final five. These are the fast five. They can only be answered in one word to one sentence, maximum. We ask them to every guest, and you've been such a kind, gracious guest with your time. So, Montero, these are your final five. Question number one is, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?

Do it. Scared.

I like that. Second question. What is the worst advice you've ever heard or received?

I don't know about that one.

You block it out. Yeah, I don't have that one. Yeah, that's cool. Question number three. What's the first thing you do in the morning and the last thing you do at night?

First thing I do in the morning, I get my cats off the bed. And the last thing I do at.

Night.

I try to move my feet in a place where my cats won't scratch it in.

Nice. Question number four. What's something that you used to value that you don't value anymore?

I guess.

Approval from everyone around me, I guess.

Yeah.

You're allowing yourself to let that go.

Yeah.

All right, fifth and final question. We asked this to every guest who's ever been on the show. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

I have a different one.

I love that. That's brilliant. That means I have to break my law with you. What advice would you give to your younger self?

Make sure you love yourself enough, more than anybody else in this entire world ever could. Yeah, I say that.

That's it. Long live Montero. The documentary is out right now. Montero, Lil Nas X. It has been. I know for you, however the experience goes, I'd love to hear from you. But honestly, I think the depth, the openness, and I want to thank you for showing up when you didn't have to off your own accord and trusting me and giving me this space and time. So I'm grateful to you and thankful to you for showing up in the way that you did.

Thank you.

I'm happy to be here, and I'm.

Appreciative of how you helped me through this. Thank you.

Cool. Thank you, Matt. Thank you so much. If you love this episode, you'll enjoy my conversation with Megan Trainor on breaking generational trauma and how to be confident from the inside out.

My therapist told me, stand in the mirror naked for five minutes. It was already tough for me to love my body, but after the c section scarf with all the stretch marks, now I'm looking at myself like I've been hacked. But day three, when I did it, I was like, you know what?

Her thighs are cute. Hi, I'm Dave Deagleman. I have a new podcast called Inner Cosmos on iHeart.

I'm going to explore the relationship between.

Our brains and our experiences by tackling unusual questions like, can we create new senses for humans? So join me weekly to uncover how your brain steers, your behavior, your perception, and your reality. Listen to inner cosmos with David Eagleman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, I'm Danny Shapiro, host of the hit podcast family Secrets. What happens when the person you idolize eyes turns out to be someone else entirely? And what if you were kidnapped by your own grandparents and left with an endless well of mysteries about yourself and those around you? These are just a few extraordinary puzzles we'll be exploring in our 9th season of family secrets. I hope you'll join me and my astonishing guests for this new season of family secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.