Regardless of the progress you've made in life, I believe we could all benefit from wisdom on handling common problems, making life seem more manageable now more than ever. I'm Eric Zimmer, host of the one you feed podcast, where I interview thought provoking guests who offer practical wisdom that you can use to create the life you want. 25 years ago, I was homeless and addicted to heroin. I've made my way through addiction recovery, learned to navigate my clinical depression, and figured out how to build a fulfilling life. The one you feed has over 30 million downloads and was named one of the best podcasts by Apple Podcasts. Oprah magazine named us as one of 22 podcasts to help you live your best life.

You always have the chance to begin again and feed the best of yourself.

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They'Ll act once they feel better. It's actually the other way around.

I have had over 500 conversations with world renowned experts, and yet I'm still striving to be better. Join me on this journey. Listen to the one you feed on, the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman, host of the Psychology podcast and founder of the center for Human Potential. If you like on purpose with Jay Shetty, I think you'll enjoy the psychology podcast, where we explore the depths of human potential. In each episode, I talk with inspiring scientists, thinkers, and other self actualized individuals who give you a greater understanding of yourself, others, and the world we live in. Our aim is to help you live a fuller, more meaningful life. Listen to the psychology podcast on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

There's a lot of talk about mindfulness these days, which is fantastic. I mean, we all want to be more present and self aware, more patient, less judgmental. We discuss all these themes on the podcast, but it's hard to actually be mindful in your day to day life. That's where calm comes in. I've been working with calm for a few years now with the goal of making mindfulness fun and easy. Calm has all sorts of content to help you build positive habits, shift your self talk, reframe your negative thoughts, and generally feel better in your daily life. So many incredible options from the most knowledgeable experts in the world, along with renowned meditation teachers. You can also check out my seven minute daily series to help you live more mindfully each and every day. Right now, listeners of onpurpose get 40% off a subscription to calmpremium@calm.com. J that's calm. J-A-Y for 40% off. Calm your mind. Change your life. I think it's so easy when you're going for a breakup to be like, I'm going crazy. I'm going mad. But you're not. There are good days and bad days, and that's okay. I'm going closer to the good days.

I'm recognizing my worth. I'm working with therapist. I'm working with the coach. I'm working on my self worth. The number one health and wellness podcast, Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty.

The one, the only Jay Shetty.

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to on Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every one of you that come back every week to listen, learn, and grow. Now, if you've been leaving reviews, it means the world to me. There have been some incredible reviews recently, and I want you to know how much I value, how much I appreciate the beautiful testimonies that you've left about the show, how it's impacted you. And I will be posting some on my instagram. So if you haven't left a review yet, please go and do it. It makes a huge difference to us as podcasters. Please subscribe to the show. Make sure you followed as well. Again, it makes a huge difference to us as we're building our community. And I know so many of you, whether it's the first time you're listening or whether it's the thousandth time you're listening, I deeply appreciate you being here. Now, this episode came about because I've met so many people in the last week who've come up to me and said things like, jay, when I was going through a tough breakup, I turned to your book, eight rules of love, or your podcast on purpose, or I've met so many people who tell me that their friend is going through a really tough divorce.

And I've even met people who've talked to me about a recent breakup they went through and how deeply it's affected their self worth and their self esteem. Now, if you've gone through a breakup and know that you haven't healed yet, this episode's for you. If you're going through a breakup right now, this episode's for you. And if your friends growing through a breakup right now, this is the episode to send them. And if you've ever been broken up with, or even if you've broken up with someone and you want to know how it affects them, what they go through, why they have acted irrationally in the past maybe you've let someone go for the right reasons, but their reaction hasn't been rational. This episode will help explain what's happening in our brains, what's happening in our minds, and why we behave the way we do when someone breaks our heart, or when you break someone's heart. And I want to start off by just saying that. As I dive into this, feel free to take notes, take a screenshot of the moment that impacted you, and share on Instagram and TikTok. What are the parts that really, truly stay with you?

Now, the first thing I want to start off with is this idea that the human brain absolutely loves love. The human brain is obsessed with love. It's why we're always seeking it. It's why we're always after it, right? If you came to my live show, I started off the show by letting you know that the number one thing googled when you type in will I ever, the first thing that comes up is, will I ever find love? It's the most Google question for will I ever about the future. Our biggest worry, our biggest anxiety is, will I ever find love? That's how big it is. And so the human brain loves love. That's because when we experience love, it releases dopamine and it releases oxytocin. So that strong release creates this feeling that we want to crave, that we want to experience, that we want in our lives. But let's think about what happens when the opposite occurs. When there's a breakup, the brain releases cortisol, the stress hormone and epinephrine. Studies show that breakups activate the area of your brain that processes craving, an addiction. Losing a relationship can throw you into a type of withdrawal, which is why it's hard to function.

You ache for your ex, sometimes literally, and you can't get them out of your head. This is like an addiction. But the good news is we can also overcome this. So you're seeing that on one side, when we're experiencing love, dopamine and oxytocin, the chemicals that we want to feel, and then cortisol. Even though stress can be a great thing in the beginning of a relationship, we feel that excitement. The levels of cortisol when we go through a breakup are high and very difficult to deal with. Too much cortisol in the brain, studies show, sends blood to the major muscle groups. What happens is those muscles think that they're about to fight a threat, so they go into that fight or flight mode. But the problem is, when you're being broken up with, there is no physical fight, right? The muscles don't need that energy, and there's nowhere to express that energy. But that may be why we feel like hitting people sometimes, right? We've all seen movies where you want to throw the dart at the face of that person on the picture, or you want to throw rocks at them, or maybe you want to punch them in the face, right?

That feeling comes from that fight or flight mode. But because there's nowhere to give that energy, to release that energy, right? Sometimes movies give us lots of ideas. You want to scratch their car, you want to do all these things. But because most of us don't do those things, what ends up happening is that that energy stays within our body. This is what causes headaches. This is what causes pain in our neck and our back. And this is often why we feel so tight chested and so heavy in our chest. And so it's really interesting to me how even that aggression, we start thinking sometimes, oh, my gosh, I'm so aggressive. Oh, my God, they're so angry. And really what's happening is that cortisol level is creating this desire for a physical altercation. But because most of us control that sensation, the body keeps the score. As that great book is titled, the body keeps the score. And a lot of the time, that tight chestedness, that feeling of being squeezed, that feeling of being under stress, keeps it in their body. Now, what ends up happening is to ensure the muscles have an adequate blood supply.

Cortisol diverts blood away from the digestive system. This is what causes everything from digestive issues, cramps, stomach pain, stress in our gut. And this, of course, can lead to appetite loss or diarrhea or even cravings. Just think about this for a second. When was the last time when you were broken up with and it led to bad food decisions, when it led to you not feeling so great inside. And so you can see that these aren't just irrational triggers. This isn't because you're weak. It's actually a chemical reason as to why we behave this way. Then, when the stress hormones are really accelerated, the immune system can struggle, which, of course, makes us more prone to getting sick. And that's why there's the often thing known as the breakup cold or why our immune system takes a hit. And one of the biggest things that happens here is that with that steady release of cortisol, it starts to impact the quality of our sleep. It starts to impact our ability to make healthy decisions and choices. This is why we start thinking, do I text them? Do I message them? Do I stalk them on social media?

Do I comment on their last post? Do I ask my friend, what are they up to? What are they doing? Right? It can often make us really irrational. It can make us really do things that are out of character. And I think, again, we've all experienced this either as the recipient or as the person who does it. And I think we often look back at ourselves and we think, God, why did I do that? I'm the worst. I'm so crazy. Or we think, oh, that person's gone crazy. Why are they acting that way? But we can see that cortisol and epinephrine can have this impact on us mentally and emotionally. And we can see why we start to act out a while out because of this. Now I'm painting this picture for us to empathize with someone going through a breakup. Because even if your friend's going through a breakup, you're often thinking, well, just get over it, right? What's the big deal? Like, they weren't good for you anyway. How many of us have said that to our friends? They're not good enough for you. Why are you giving them so much energy? How are you still thinking about them?

You should be over this by now, right? And it becomes a normal part of the conversation we have with our friends who are being deeply affected by a breakup. The point I'm trying to get across to you is that breakups are tough. They're chemically difficult, they're emotionally challenging, and they're soulfully troubling. And the reason is because some other studies show that when you break up with someone, you're almost experiencing what it feels like to detox from drugs, we get that craving feeling of wanting them back in our life. We think, how can I live without them? This is the same thing an addict feels when a drug that they're addicted to is removed from their daily consumption. Now that we're not daily talking to this individual, now that we're not starting our day with their text, now that we're not speaking to them every night, now that we're not seeing them, now that we're not feeling that sense of physical touch, all of these things act as an addict going through a detox process. So it's really easy to make it feel like a breakup is just an emotional and mental feeling, but it is, in fact, a chemical feeling.

But here's the good news. The good news is, despite the rise in cortisol, despite the rise in epinephrine, despite our muscles holding on to that emotion because that emotion has nowhere to go. There are ways to solve it.

Therapy for Black Girls podcast is the destination for all things mental health, personal development, and all of the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. Here we have the conversations that help black women dig a little deeper into the most impactful relationships in our lives, those with our parents, our partners, our children, our friends, and most importantly, ourselves. We chat about things like what to do when a friendship ends, how to know when it's time to break up with your therapist, and how to end the cycle of perfectionism. I'm your host, Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. And I can't wait for you to join the conversation. Every Wednesday, listen to therapy for Black Girls podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Take good care.

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Now, some of the more quick, immediate ways to solve it because we have that desire for a physical release. And this is why often people say, if you're going through a breakup, it's important to work out. It's important to move around. But when we hear that, we think, I don't want to work out right now, I just want to stay in bed. It's why there's something called the rage room that exists, and it may be called something different in your city. I remember I went with Radhi a few years ago. We made a YouTube video about it. We went to this place in LA called the rage room. It's a room where you get given a baseball bat, goggles and some overalls and you break things, old things. You break old computers, old fax machines, you break bottles, you break all these things. Now, what's really interesting is me and Radhi went in to see if it was fun. We walked in unstressed, but we walked out very stressed, which was a really interesting experiment. We found that when we went to do something destructive, when we didn't feel upset, we walked out more stressed.

And when we asked the person who worked there why that was, they said, well, you're meant to come in here when you are stressed in order to release it. So again, don't go to it unless you're feeling that desire. I just want to punch them in the face. I'm so mad. I'm so angry. It's important to release that rage, and this is one of the biggest mistakes we make. We think that rage makes us bad. We think that the rage is not useful, but it is a feeling that needs to be released in a controlled, safe environment. Some people like to burn old things, old pictures, whatever it may be. Again, this is a sign of us wanting to release that rage, right? That feeling in our body of the cortisol that's brought about, that fight or flight. And we don't have the ability to fight. But what we have to understand is our biggest mistake when we're trying to heal is we don't allow ourselves to feel these things. We also want to go from hurting to being fully healed. We don't want to go through a process. So we're hoping that one day we're going to wake up and this thing that we're feeling is just going to disappear.

That's not how it works. We have to understand that there's levels to our healing and what we have to do is focus on getting to the next level, not the complete level. Right. It's almost like saying you're playing a game and you want to finish the game without going through all the levels. You want to get to the end game without going through each of the segments and sections. So the three phases in our language are reeling, feeling and healing. Right? In the beginning, you're reeling, you're shocked, you're surprised. You can't believe it. Then we have to allow ourselves to feel, and then the healing process starts. Now, something known as the Kubla Ross five stages of grief shows the more clear steps of what you're going to experience. And the Kubla Ross five stages of grief was first developed for people who were unwell or diagnosed with a illness, but later they actually got likened for someone who is dealing with grief when someone would lose someone they love. Now, here's the interesting thing. We've realized now, today that loss doesn't just mean death. Right? It means the end of a relationship. So loss doesn't just mean you lost someone because they're no longer here.

You can even have the loss of a person you once knew. You can have a loss of an identity you once had, being this person's partner. You have a loss of the idea of the future you wanted. You have a loss of the idea of who you thought someone was. These are all types of grief, right? Grief isn't just, I lost them. They're no longer in my life. Grief also is the loss of a life. We thought we were creating the loss of the marriage we imagined with this individual. The more deeply we imagined and envisioned, the deeper that grief is experienced. Just because you didn't have the life experience doesn't mean you don't have the grief experience. Because the grief experience is mental and emotional more than it is physical. And so often we underplay someone's grief because we think, oh, they never. Come on. You weren't even together for that long. Why are you overreacting? But they're not. Because for them, they were together in their head, in their mind. They'd made commitments. So the Kubla Ross model has these stages. The first stage is denial. We are in denial. Oh, they'll come back.

I know I'll get them back. They're just going through a rough time. You know, they're going to miss me. There's a sense of denial, right? It makes you pretend a little bit, or it allows you to get used to the fact that something's happening, but very slowly, it's okay to feel denial. I think often when someone's in denial, we say, no, don't be in denial. Come on. They're not coming back. Just be honest with yourself. The point is, it's a phase we need to go through, because what your mind is doing is it's slowly making you okay with the reality, right? If you immediately accepted that your new reality was, this person's gone, that may be so emotionally painful that the mind almost drip feeds you that information. So the mind says, let's go into denial. First, let's pretend like it's not happening. Nothing's changed, everything's okay. It's just that kind of a moment. So denying gives you time to gradually process what is happening. And this is a common way in which we protect ourselves. And what it does is it allows us to create a defense to the pain that we'd feel if we allowed it to all happen at once.

And as we experience denial, slowly, slowly, slowly we start to rise to recognizing that may not be the case. And again, when we see people in denial, we're often like, come on, stop being in denial. They're gone. Wake up. But actually, they can't emotionally accept that. They can't emotionally allow themselves to feel that because it would be too painful. And I think when we feel forced to experience something, we know what that feels like. You can't do it. You're like, I physically can't allow myself to feel that because I'll break, right? That's how they feel. I physically can't allow myself to feel that way because I have no idea what that's going to lead to. And I think this is one of the reasons why we can't rush the people in our life to feel something they're not ready to feel yet knowing and trusting that they will get there. And you may say, well, I told you so, but that isn't how it works. I couldn't be more excited to share something truly special with all you tea lovers out there. And even if you don't love tea, if you love refreshing, rejuvenating, refueling sodas that are good for you, listen to this.

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And I know you all know the lyrics, but it's exactly that, right? I might kill my ex not the best idea. His new girlfriend's next. How'd I get here? Right? But it's like, that's very real, right? That anger you experience is real. I might kill my ex I still love him, though. Rather be in jail than alone, right? When you just hear those lyrics, it's like, you know what that's felt like? You know what that's felt like? And it goes back to that fight or flight feeling that I was speaking about out before. And I think what's really hard about the anger phase is that there isn't an outlet. Right? There is that feeling. And of course, the lyrics go, I got me a therapist to tell me that there's other men and I don't want none I just want you and if I can't have you no one should, right? And so that lyric is actually the reality of the complexity of that situation. Scissor absolutely nailed it, right? It's such a great definition and explanation of the emotions that are felt while the chemicals are happening in the background. And it's such a challenging state, as I said, because there isn't an outlet for that anger.

There isn't an outlet for that pain. And this is why some people have a burn list. Or I remember I interviewed Nessa on the podcast. She had a burn box on stage where people would bring something to burn that they wanted to leave behind and let go. And it's why those external rituals and practices are sometimes needed and necessary, because we need a way to release that anger. Often it comes out talking to our friends, and then our friends get tired of it. We talk to our therapist about it, but it's almost like a physical feeling and a physical emotion that needs to be released. The third stage of the Kubla Ross model is called bargaining. Now, this stage is where you start to feel a bit helpless and a bit hopeless, and you're trying to find ways to regain control. So you say things like, if only I had more time with him, he would have stayed. If only I didn't work as hard, they would be here right now. If only, if only, if only I wish I did more of x. I wish I didn't do y I wish, I wish I wish, and this is the experience that we have of we're bargaining with ourselves.

We're trying to say, okay, now I need to take responsibility, right? I've denied that it's happening now. I've been angry at them, and now I'm almost going inward and turning that anger at myself as to, I could have done better, I should have done better. I would have done better. So we talked about denial. You just have to feel, you have to allow that person to feel they're coming back. It's going to come around even though you know it's not. And you allow yourself to feel that as well, because when you fight the denial or you try and force yourself forward, it's like you're trying to skip a level of a game, but you can't actually skip it because there's vital lessons for you to learn in that part of the game. And the vital lesson there, even if you don't want it, is they're not coming back. And my brain can't process everything at once. So I have to allow my brain to process it gradually with anger. Like I said, you do want to find a physical way to let it out. You do want to find a nonviolent, non aggressive, nondirect way, whether it's the rage room, whether it's the burn list therapy.

Of course, I recommend above all of these. But there is a need to explore that anger without exploding onto someone else or hurting yourself. Right. Violence is never needed. Never the answer. Any sort of damage to someone else's property or anything is never the answer. Not needed. But we need a safe, controlled way to explore that. Therapy is, of course, a great way. Friends is a fantastic way, and then a safe physical way as well that is not harmful to oneself is something that people are using. Now, the fourth step of the Kubla Ross model is depression. What's really interesting is that anger and bargaining are more proactive, and they're kind of like you're doing something about it, right? There's a feeling of I need to take action, whereas depression, of course, is far more of a passive and experienced things. And earlier on, you're like, kind of not letting yourself feel this way, but now you've kind of dealing with them, but it's bringing you down. Right. And this is what makes you want to go into isolation, which is not unhealthy but not fully healthy. You want to stay connected to people that love you and care for you.

You want to stay grounded. Again with all of this, I would recommend the help of a therapist. I would recommend the help of friends to help you to understand all of this. And this may feel where you feel really heavy, you feel overwhelmed, you feel exhausted, because now you're processing all those emotions that you initially denied. The denial has led to depression, right? Denial is, you're saying, it's not real. And depression is saying, gosh, I know it's real. And this can sometimes be the longest stage because the questions we're asking are, will anyone ever love me? Or am I lovable? Right? These are big questions. You start asking these root questions now, it's not about them, it's about you. And this is where therapy can be so powerful, where coaching can be so powerful, because we need to learn to rebuild that inner self esteem. But now at least we're focusing on ourselves, right? That's the key tip in depression. When you're experiencing that, it's now saying, okay, I'm going to rebuild myself. I'm going to start from scratch again, and I'm going to focus on will anyone ever love me? Am I lovable? Let me focus on that.

Let me build from that. And the fifth and final stage is acceptance. Now, acceptance is not like a happy or good feeling, but it means that you're accepting that the relationship is over. You're accepting that you both had responsibility, but you're accepting that you're on the right path, that you've learned from this. You've gone through something huge in your life, but you're starting to realize that you've learned valuable lessons that are powerful. So you may say things to yourself like, it was right, but it still hurts. It's good that it's ended, but it still causes me pain. This acceptance is that oscillating place of, I know it was right. I get why it had to happen, but that doesn't mean I don't feel pain. Now, the reason I'm walking you through these five stages is all of a sudden you start to go, I'm not mad. I'm not crazy. Oh, I'm not delusional. This is natural. And what your friends are feeling is natural. I think it's so easy when you're going for a breakup to be like, I'm going crazy. I'm going mad. But you're not. I'm sure you've experienced all of these stages in an acceptance is accepting, I'm not mad.

I'm not crazy. This is what had to happen. And there are good days and bad days, and that's okay. I'm going closer to the good days. I'm recognizing my worth. I'm working with therapist. I'm working with the coach. I'm working on my self worth. I want to end by sharing with you a beautiful poem and piece called the stone that was written by Jessica Watson. So I'm reading from Jessica Watson. Listen to this. Jessica said that the best way she can describe grief is by carrying a stone in your pocket. When you walk, the stone brushes against your skin. You feel it. You always feel it. But depending on the way you stand or the way your body moves, the smooth edges might barely graze your body. Sometimes you lean the wrong way, or you turn too quickly and a sharp edge pokes you. Your eyes water and you rub your wound, but you have to keep going because not everyone knows about your stone. Or if they do, they don't realize it can still bring this much pain. There are days you are simply happy. Now. Smiling comes easy, and you laugh without thinking.

You slap your leg during that laughter and you feel your stone and aren't sure whether you should be laughing. Still, the stone still hurts. Once in a while. You can't take your hand off that stone. You run it over your fingers and roll it in your palm and are so preoccupied by its weight, you forget things like your car keys and home address. You try to leave it alone, but you just can't. You want to take a nap, but it's been so many years since you've called in. Sad. You're not sure anyone would understand anymore, or if they ever did. But most days, you can take your hand in and out of your pocket, feel your stone, and even smile at its unwavering presence. You've accepted this stone as your own, crossing your hands over it, saying mine. As children do, you rest more peacefully than you once did. You've learned to move forward the best you can. Some days you want to show the world what a beautiful memory you're holding. But most days, you twirl it through your fingers and smile and look to the sky. You squeeze your hands together and hope you're living in a way that honors the missing piece you carry until your arms are full again.

I love that piece by Jessica Watson. I hope you'll remember it and read it and listen to it again and again. The Stone by Jessica Watson. And the last thing I'll leave you with is this, understanding that the stone doesn't get smaller, but you get bigger, you get stronger, and that makes it feel smaller. The real path to healing is becoming the best version of yourself. When you become the best version of yourself. The parts of yourself that are affected by that weakness and weight start to become lighter and brighter and easier. Thank you so much for listening to on purpose. I hope you'll share this with a friend. I hope you'll pass it along to someone in your life who's struggling with any type of grief, and I hope that this has benefited you deeply and I'm sending you so much love. Thank you for listening. See you soon. If you love this episode, you're going to love my conversation with Matthew Hussey on how to get over your ex and find true love in your relationships. People should be compassionate to themselves, but extend that compassion to your future self, because truly extending your compassion to your future self is doing something that gives him or her a shot at a happy and a peaceful life.

The one you feed explores how to build a fulfilling life amidst the challenges we face. We share manageable steps to living with more joy and less fear through guidance on emotional resilience, transformational habits, and personal growth. I'm your host, Eric Zimmer, and I speak with experts ranging from psychologists to spiritual teachers, offering powerful lessons to apply daily. Create the life you want now listen to the one you feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts I'm Dr. Scott Barry.

Kaufman, host of the Psychology podcast and founder of the center for Human Potential. If you like on purpose with Jay Shetty, I think you'll enjoy the Psychology podcast where we explore the depths of human potential. In each episode, I talk with inspiring scientists, thinkers, and other self actualized individuals who give you a greater understanding of yourself, others, and the world we live in. Our aim is to help you live a fuller, more meaningful life. Listen to the psychology podcast on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.