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Welcome to a very special edition of Scientology Fair Game podcast, where we are going to answer some of your questions, which I think is really great. Right? This is a way for us to connect. And, you know, we get questions on on on Twitter and our social media and your blog, certainly. And, you know, sometimes the answers are just too long to tweet.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah, I mean, it's you know what it's like.

It's like Listener Appreciation Day. Exactly. Exactly. We do appreciate our listeners beyond. I want to thank you, Mike. And I both want to thank you tremendously for supporting this podcast in the way that you are and supporting, again, people's stories. The fact that it's continuing really says a lot to us.

And you you share the same passion, obviously, with us of of taking down such a Goliath of a bully in Scientology.

Mike, I can see you, but people can't see you. You looked very scared. What happened?

My recording stopped. It started again now. But we just have to do that little bit again.

Sorry, I don't know what happened, so. OK, so anyway, Mike, let's just start with the most pressing. This is a question that we get us all the time. Where is Shelly Miscavige? And we get this correct, but we get this question all the time, like people started a hashtag, where is Shelly is the wife.

And unfortunately, we have no update for you. We wish we did. We don't know where Shelly is. There's speculation that Shelly is being held at a place called syste. Is that right, Mike?

Yes. Yes. And where the spiritual technology and tell people what that is.

It's the organization created to archive for all time and eternity the works of L. Ron Hubbard, the incredibly invaluable works of L. Ron Hubbard, so that future generations and future races and future entities in the universe will have this incredibly valuable information available to them.

And so the staff members there at this place and this is in Arrowhead, California.

Yeah. This which is in San Bernardino County, it's up on the top of the hills there up by the ski areas, Lake Arrowhead or near Lake Arrowhead. It's called Rim of the World is actually the name of the little town.

Hmm, that's interesting. Yeah, OK, my thoughts go somewhere else when I hear that, but anyway, Mike, inappropriate.

Um. This facility where Shelly Miscavige, the leader of Scientology's wife, Shelly, has not been seen in how many years? No, Mike in public?

Oh, I don't know, 13 or something. I think it was 2007 or somewhere around there. Now, the last.

Right now, the last that we we knew of Shelly was through Valerie Haney, who used to work for David Miscavige and Shelly Miscavige directly and who is now my one of my closest friends and assistant. But Valerie was on the aftermath program and said that the last time she saw Shelly, she was being taken away in a black SUV and was visibly upset. And yet no one has seen her or heard from her since I had filed a police report. A missing persons report did not get any information other than some statement that the LAPD put out saying it was unfounded, which would imply that they had contact with her or a legal representative.

Right, Mike?

Because when you joined the Sea Org, you do sign contracts that say that Scientology can speak on your behalf. Right? Sort of, yeah, but I think in the case of Shelly, it was probably is this probably more specific things even than that? I think that Shelly probably had counsel who was retained on her behalf by Scientology and that, you know, at some point she was told you've got to retain this person for your own good. And so she got given a piece of paper and sign of things saying, OK, this person is now my lawyer.

And that then gets turned into a representation by that lawyer. She's my client and she doesn't wish to, you know, and I assure you, she's doing fine. And that lawyer is probably one of those lawyers that works for Scientology a lot and takes the representations of people in Scientology as being absolutely true. You know, Ray, Jeffrey mentioned this, that the lawyers that show up and in those court cases in Texas, he said they're very reputable lawyers.

They can only rely on what they are told. They can Scientologists that, yeah, they can't they can't, you know, come up with some information that their client hasn't told them.

And they're not detectives right there at the time. Yeah, right. So that's what's happened to Shelly. And I sincerely hope that she is OK. Like I told you when we were doing the show, I have known Shelly since she was 12 years old. I considered her someone who was a long term friend of mine. And it's sad because I believe that she is so brainwashed at this point and so under the control of Scientology that she doesn't even know that she wants to leave.

So there's a lot of things to overcome now where Shelly allegedly is at the county, it's even harder because.

Oh, yeah, the guard gate is some some ways back from the actual gate, the entrance. And so to even get to that point would be a feat in itself if somehow she did. There's a house across the street and this is like a highway. So there's no where to stop your vehicle. And so across the street is a Scientology owned home where security guards are based.

And Mike, you made an appearance on the aftermath and showed us that and. Right.

I so I hope that Shelly is still alive. I have no way to to help. I did what I can do at my own expense. I hired a lawyer to try to get more information through the Public Information Act.

That didn't work. So that's the answer on Shelly. I wish we had more. We had more good news to tell you what we don't. OK, let's move on to another question, Mikey. Yes, we get this ask this question a lot, too.

Do you believe that David Miscavige believes in Scientology?

OK, now, why did you have to pick that one? Why?

Because that's such a hard question to answer. I don't know actually what the answer is. I go I jump back and forth from yes to no.

Well, is totally OK. I mean, yes, I think he does because he's still there. And he'll be a question I can't answer. No.

Yeah, exactly. OK, ready. So this is all you have to answer. This will give people the answer.

When you would report to David Miscavige in his robe while he was being served his breakfast on a tray and things like that.

Did David Miscavige ask you? How many people have we helped, Mike Rinder? No. OK. All right, here's another great question, Mike.

Our lead is this is a real oh, I'm glad you asked that one, because I wanted to answer it.

Go ahead. They look real. OK, that was my answer, so let me explain to everybody at home, see now with these long nails that I have my claws, as people like to say. They are there is no plastic tip underneath these long claws, but the way that I keep my long claws is you have to start one day with acrylic and gel. And that is how my nails have become so long and how am I able to keep them this way because they have acrylic on top of them, but they are my real nails.

Claws. You understand me, because I feel like you're zoning out a little bit. You know, you don't understand. OK, well, is acrylic, the acrylic is not part of the nail. That's right. Now let's paint Honokaa.

OK, so let's say let's say that let's say a girl goes in, she has little short stubbies, right.

And she's like, I want Leia's claws. Yeah, right. What they have to do is create the nail they put on a form on your little stub and then they create this long nail. But then as time goes on, you'll see your real nail, your real nail behind the acrylic growing out, out. If you look behind my nails, you will not see a nail growing out because this is my real nail.

Right. That's why I said they look like your real nails. They are. Good BlackVoices. That was probably everybody now can just show. So glad you could relax and and tune out.

Yeah, because this was something that was very pressing. I mean, this is something people are like cross fingers. Leah and Mike answer this. I keep tweeting her this and she keeps on answering.

So you know that there's just a sigh of relief just across the planet right now. Right. OK, good. Well, glad we got that one out of the way.

I mean, that you are there any positives in Scientology? My. This is a viewer question. This is a listener. Why do you keep answering the trick once? Like, can't we have the easy ones? All right, let's do this. Are there any positives out there? Any positives? Yes. At the outset, there are things that are positive about Scientology that are the way in which people get sucked in.

Right. They are the things that are presented as we can help you with this, we can help you with that and whatever they have, some of those things do provide help. They do help people. They help people if they're having difficulty communicating with someone or if they're having some other problem in their life and little pieces of information that are useful and platitudes that that Hubbard wrote that tell you that, you know, be kind to other people, blah, blah, blah, as long as it's not then a suppressive person or whatever.

Those things are positives about Scientology.

And those are the things that are relied upon to attempt to get people involved in Scientology. And they are generally sort of harmless and they generally kind of okaying things people couldn't agree with. And but after that, it's all downhill.

Well, I would answer in this way. It's like saying, is crack doing crack bad? Like if you just did it, like, once.

Because and that's probably not a great analogy, but let me so I can answer a different way, the things that we're talking about that are quote unquote good about Scientology are things that either your parents teach you, a church teaches you a children's Bible, can teach you being in the world, getting an education, knowing, getting data from real sources in the fields of mental health.

And life and living as these are just basic morals, basic concepts that you're talking about, that I would not say that there are good things in Scientology knowing what it leads to, knowing that those good things are just a carrot being dangled in front of your face for in the end to to destroy you and to to make you a person that is needing a lot of help after. So I would say absolutely not. Here's another question many of the execs who've been in still may be in the hall are quite elderly.

Would you please give an informed opinion on what their daily lives are now, since they are not likely to be productive members due to age and infirmity?

Are they being cared for? Would we even find out if they had died? OK, well, the last part of that question, first, I doubt that we would find out that they had died at at the time that it happens because by historical precedent, that has not been the case. People have died, including Annie Broca and others. And nobody even knew.

No family members were informed. Nothing no announcement was made, nothing. It was just as if they ceased to exist and everybody went on with business as usual. Uh, as to the daily life of those people, I guess the answer to that depends on just how infirm they may be. If they are physically incapacitated, then it is likely that they will be put out to pasture somewhere. Some of them get sent to, you know, hospice type care if they get really ill.

Some of them just sort of kept around because they are considered to be too much of a potential liability if they escaped in smoke.

You know, that's the HEB Adventures of the World of Scientology, right?

Are they being looked after? Not not not like you, not like one would expect, they are being looked after in terms of making sure that they don't go off the reservation. And, you know, we we had that discussion with Tammy Heba Jenckes niece about how when the sheriffs went to the Golden Era property and saw Heba Jentsch, he had a full time nurse. Well, we know that that person is not a nurse that may be a minder to make sure that he doesn't go weird or try and walk out the door or, you know, make a phone call or do something that that would be outside of their control.

But she is not a nurse and they do not have nurses there to look after those people. And honestly, I feel sad for them as those people get up in age and are trapped, trapped like nobody else is like the trap. We're talking about adults.

We're talking about Golden Era Productions in Wright County right now. Close to him.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And those people are trapped worse than young people because they really don't have anywhere left to go to. Most of them, their parents have died. But, you know, they're like and they've been so cut off from the rest of the world for so long that there is just anything outside of the Scientology world no longer exists for most of them.

I'm Dr. Wendy Walsh, host of the podcast Mating Matters. I believe nearly every human behavior is motivated by a desire for love, sex or to hedge your reproductive odds. I think women have this ability to plant these mental bombs into a man's mind.

But the thing about humor is that the value of humor, it goes up. We're wired to reproduce. To them.

It was a super female. It was a giant female, and they were lured into it to trying to mate with it.

The science of love is fascinating. It's a bizarre form of biohacking, really. If you have the seven hour question, you are more likely to be involved in an affair.

Yes, that's where some of the research gets really intriguing. There's so many ways to be a human, but I must say sex between three people can get complicated in a nutshell.

The Kinsey scale looked at two things sexual fantasies and actual sexual behavior. Listen to mating matters on the radio, Apple podcast or whatever. You listen to your podcasts.

Food is and always has been political. If that wasn't clear before, the events of 2020 have revealed this truth in a spectacular fashion. So this season we're diving deeper, learning about the nomadic roots of the Fulani people and the cultural significance of Matt dining. We traveled to Palestine to taste the milky pestilent Iraq and then to La Palma in the Canary Islands to drink local wine from a woman winemaker. While considering the industry's male dominance. We're questioning the morality of meat, the politics of language and why we don't say food desert, but rather food apartheid.

This season, we're bringing you into the policies that influence and shape our food system and along the way, drinking coffee with you while discussing its African origins from the makers of wetstone media, its point of origin.

Season three. I'm inviting you to travel with me, your host Stephen Satterfield, for another tour of the World of Food Worldwide. Listen to Point of Origin on the radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

OK, here's another question, Giglio's father, I know I must be missing something, but isn't Jennifer Lopez's father a Scientologist? So how can you be friends with her if she is still in communication with him?

But you are an aspy. Like I said, I'm confused about this whole thing, but I thought this is the way that it worked. Love your podcast. So the answer the real answer is yes.

Jennifer Lopez's father is a Scientologist, current Scientologist, and yes, per the policy of disconnection.

Jennifer should have been forced to disconnect from me through her father.

But because Scientology is bullshit and they say one thing to another and they claim disconnection doesn't exist, although it's on their own website. And they also don't want to ruin any public relations with Jennifer. So they're not going to make her father do that. So whether it works for Scientology is just destroying the average Scientologist family. But when it comes to celebrity, very different. Good answer, Mike. Perfect. All right.

Here's another question about Tom Cruise. How involved is Tom in the day to day? I know he's witnessed a lot. What about John Travolta? I know you don't like to talk about other celebrities, but I watch Going Clear after your last podcast, and it seems weird that John would still be in after how Spanky was treated.

And then the other questions here, Mike, about this is, do you believe Nicole Kidman or Katie Holmes over speak out the Tom Cruise, try to convert Penelope Cruz? Yes. Is Tom Cruise personally? We're exposed to the real side of it.

Yes. How involved is Tom Cruise in the day to day? He's involved in the day to day in that he talks to David Miscavige all the time, like every day, like he and Dave are best buds. So he's always hearing about what's going on in Scientology. He doesn't do any work like this is sort of I don't want to create the impression that Tom Cruise is slaving away nine in the morning until midnight at night working to expand Scientology like Sea Org members are.

And I should say, working futilely to expand Scientology like CRM Baza. That's no, he doesn't do any of that.

He he's not involved in any heavy lifting or anything, but he is involved to the degree that he's in touch constantly with David Miscavige. And David Miscavige likes to use Tom Cruise as his sounding board and as a threat to Scientologists or Sea Org members in particular. So Tom Cruise is is definitely involved and a a. He is what I would call a true believer, like a hard core, true believer, obviously, to the extent where he hasn't seen his own daughter because Surrey's mother is now labeled a suppressive person.

Correct.

Therefore, the connection to story through Katie would be a big no no. So that so Tom. Yes.

And Tom was also given given the the job of in charge of all of us celebrities of Scientology, often having meetings where he was telling us we needed to meet certain quotas to to infiltrate Hollywood, and he is seen as the Messiah.

People call him Mr. Cruz.

They actually like so far as to salute the man like he's in the military. It's very disconnection. There's a question about disconnection.

We didn't answer. There was another poll about, oh, OK, go ahead.

Oh, do you think do you believe Nicole Kidman and or Katie Holmes will ever speak out?

No, I don't. Unfortunately. I think that part of whatever agreement they made in terminating their relationship with Tom and Scientology requires that they do not do that. But I you know, I don't know that for sure. And I, you know, sort of hold out hope that one day either one or both will actually tell the story of what really happened and what they what their life has been like since and what they witnessed, and particularly Katie and Suri and how that whole thing has gone down.

I you know, I don't think that either one of them are scared. I don't believe that that their failure to speak is a fear of Scientology or even a fear of Tom. I think I think that both of them have sort of moved on with their lives and are having, you know, enjoyable experiences in life and just don't want this to ever come up again. I mean, that's how I would take it. But yeah. Do Scientologists vote?

Yes, they do.

If they're eligible, I guess. And if they they so desire.

There is no heavy demand that Scientologists vote, except if you are in a location such as the Golden Era Productions facility or Flag in Clearwater or the complex in Los Angeles, the big blue building in Los Angeles, where Scientology believes that they can actually influence elections. Right. And that they can sort of strongarm people into voting. And they they do this all very carefully. It's all very it's all very you know, as with everything else in Scientology, it's all very weird.

They do not overtly say you should vote for this person or that person because that is a clear cut violation of the IRS regulations about tax exempt religions.

Oh, but I can tell you as a parishioner, Mike, when as a parishioner, we were told, like we were called I was called by many different Scientologists and the field.

These are parishioners saying we are not voting for this person because this person is pro psychiatrist. We are not voting for this person because they are backing a person who is attacking our church and our beliefs.

Absolutely. And but but just so you understand, it's very carefully worded. Nobody ever says we are not voting for this person because in those words they say.

Joe Schmoe is pro psychiatry, Joe Schmo came out in support of X, Joe Schmo came out in support of why we're just providing you with the information to let you know, making this all making you very well aware of the actual facts about what's going on.

And that is like, you know, people talk about dog whistles. Yeah, this is this is an elephant horn. Yeah. This is just if you say to a Scientologist politician, X support psychiatry, you might just as well say to them, if you vote for that person, you are a suppressive and we will declare you suppressive.

Right. So, yes, there is a lot of direction. And the other thing they do is they get individual Scientologists who are the Oza volunteers who start little political action groups, and they have the back channel conversations with the people in the church who are telling them this is what we want. And then those people go out and say, as a citizen of Clearwater, I am informing you that this and this and this is on the ballot. And this is what and this is what's good about it and this is what's bad about it, blah, blah, blah.

So the word goes out, right? There is no question the word goes out and Scientologists generally know who they should and should not vote for and what measures on which ballots should and shouldn't be supported because they are given the the codes to decipher them. Right.

And the other thing that they do is they get politicians to show up for these phony events that they hold. Right. Oh, we're doing a veterans a commemorative event for the veterans in the local veterans in Clearwater at the Fort Harrison. And then they invite politicians to come by and they don't even tell them exactly what the whole thing is. So you get the attorney general of Florida, Pam Bondi, showing up to Scientology events.

And then the next thing you know is Scientologists are donating to her campaigns. Then you see her picture with prominent Scientologists and then they put that out in their Freedom magazine and in their promotional pieces. And pretty soon, Pam Bondi, the former. Attorney general of the state of Florida is a Scientology supporter, and whether she is or she is a Scientology will tell everybody that she is. Well, here's the thing to Mike, I have to say something.

You're saying that you're not being told who to vote for.

However, Valerie you know Valerie, my assistant and a family member. No. Yes. Yes.

She has told me that Sea Org members first of all, they're not given any time to look at the candidates. Right. Because you guys work from 9:00 in the morning till midnight, seven days a week, that she said that they were given 10 minutes and watched over to fill out the forms and they told who to vote for.

I I believe that, Leah, I see your members are always somewhat in a different category than run of the mill Scientologists, Sea Org members. Everything about their entire existence is controlled by the organization from what they eat to when they go to bed, to whether they can have sex. I mean, it's just like everything about life is controlled by the sea organization. And it's true. They are not worried about like the nobody is going to go running off to the IRS and say, oh, I just got told who to vote for if they're a Sea Org member.

Of course. So, yeah, if they do that, they don't have to cover it up. So much for Sea Org members.

Yes. Yes.

And by the way, this news just in because Valerie's writing me notes as I speak.

Oh, and this was Trump. They were told to vote for Trump. Oh, really? Yes, well, that I mean, that is not surprising. Yeah, for two reasons. One, we already know that the only precinct in greater Los Angeles that supported Donald Trump was the one that is right around the Scientology headquarters, which I'm guessing I want to be clear.

I'm not a political person. I don't like to tell people how to vote, who they should vote for. It's just not something that I do.

But I'm just giving you the information that that that this is what they are. They they are political, what it serves them. Right. And they do things that serve Scientology. So just sort of make that clear.

So, yes, they just. Of course. Yes. And they're getting more and more involved in politics where they're having Scientology parishioners run for, you know, city councils, for mayors like.

So, you know, we need to be aware of that. All right. Vigilant. Yes. Now, I want to talk to you.

Here's another question. Homosexuality. What happens if someone is homosexual in Scientology? Is it is it a conversion strategy during auditing?

Absolutely, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so Scientologists like to say, you know, we don't judge. They absolutely do. There's many writings from L. Ron Hubbard. You don't see many gay people in Scientology. And if you do, they're suppressing it because they have to because L. Ron Hubbard teaches that homosexuality is wrong and they don't accept it. Correct, they say. Yeah, go ahead, but but but also there is a foundational belief that homosexuality is what's called in Scientology, an aberration.

Yeah, that's a departure from the straight line action, actually the norm from the norm, and that those departures from the norm aberrations that people have occured literally cured by auditing. So you can be cured of your abberation of being homosexual with enough auditing. It's never happened.

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OK, what are Scientology's views on romantic relationships in marriage? I'm assuming you only date within the organization, but are members encouraged to legally marry? Has marriage looked upon as a legal contract or a spiritual bond? Is there sex outside of marriage? Is it frowned upon?

Are there any consequences within the church if found out that there's an extramarital affair?

Give me the dirt that's supposed to give me the DA. I could tell you.

Well, to give you from a personal standpoint, they don't really care about the sanctity of marriage. They don't really believe in the sanctity of that. They don't believe in even family. Is is is a valuable.

Thing to it's just not something that Scientology values if you're in the Sea Org, it's just you marry somebody just basically to have sex with them because you never see them. You know, if you have children in the Sea Org, you never see them either. You don't raise your children, the Sea Org, so you don't have the same relationship that one should have with a child.

But extramarital affairs, they're handled like, OK, let's move on. Like so just big deal like that happened. Let's move on. OK, you rape somebody that's not OK. But you know we'll fix that in you one day. Might be wrong. Yeah, well handled your abberation with auditing, exactly, and it's like. I mean, you're basically told if you're a wife or husband in Scientology, if your spouse cheated on, you basically told get over it, you've done it either this life or another life.

So just get over yourself. It's not even important. Relationships are the least important thing. Family is the least important thing in Scientology, the group LRH says is the most important. And that's right. Right. Well, it's very different if you're in the Sea Org. OK, go ahead. Say from this.

So in the sea organization, anything that is determined to be out to D, which is the Scientology terminology for extramarital affairs or sexual relationships that are outside of the mores of the organization.

By the way, Mike, altitude is used as well for a girl who comes in under age and says, I had a Sea Org member or Scientologists molest me or rape me, they're like, then it's the girl went out to die. That's how it's written down in her folder. Not that a crime was committed against her, correct?

Correct. And and in the sea organization, those things are forbidden. And, you know, there was a whole lot of questions there about sex outside of marriage, et cetera, et cetera, in the sea organization, no sex outside of marriage. You have sex outside of marriage and you get found out about then you are going to likely end up in the rehabilitation project force, which is the punishment program to get you back in line.

So it's different in the sea organisation than it is in the like general parishioner world of Scientology.

Yeah. Oza files the archives, can you tell us more about that? Did Oza keep files on individuals that was separate from the general ethics folders? If yes, how was the Oza archive different? Or did Oza just keep simple copies with no difference in content? No completely separate files, the Office of Special Affairs has files on every one it has an interest in, and that means everyone who is either considered to be a threat or is a potential threat.

It includes people who have left Scientology speaking out, it includes media, it includes law enforcement officials and includes government agencies, and OSA keeps files that of information that aren't found in any other files in Scientology. The reports from private investigators following people digging into their backgrounds and their pasts all end up in the Oza files and nowhere else. Media clippings about people, information that is gathered from the garbage of people. Well, where are these files, Mike, where are these Oza files?

Well, each local Department of Special Affairs has a file or files kept on their people in their area.

Copies of those are also sent to the OSA International, which is are in Los Angeles. And there is a huge filing system there that consists of all of the information collected from all over the world and that which is generated from Oza International itself, hiring private investigators, digging into people's backgrounds, clipping media, et cetera, et cetera.

There is a whole separate technology, even written by Hubbard about how you keep these files and what's supposed to be contained in them, and they are not found anywhere else in Scientology.

OK. Mike, here's a question. Yeah, and compliment, longtime fan, and I love the podcast. Anyway, my question, what evidence would somebody need to claim that they were the reincarnation of L. Ron Hubbard?

Well, you know, and it's funny, right, Mike? Because it sounds crazy, but L. Ron Hubbard himself. Claims and has written policies about people dying, discarding their bodies, as L. Ron Hubbard claimed or people claimed he discarded his body as opposed to dying and coming back. And they're supposed to report back.

There's policies on which, Mike, you should put on the website, because it's it's delightful to to what LRH instructions are for people coming back and saying what their names are. And you have to go get their folders right and look at their pricklier folders there. There are counseling folders and that's totally acceptable. There's even a picture of a young man coming back in a place that where they talk about what happens when somebody returns. Right. And there's supposed to be L.

Ron Hubbard when he died. Sea Org members, when they die, they're supposed to take a 21 year leave of absence, but then report back, correct?

Correct.

So Elvan motto of the serialisation, tell me. Come back.

Right. So where's Ron? A wall. OK, because he's a bit over.

He is AWOL. He'll never do, I'm afraid. Yes, OK.

Because that's fucked up. Yeah, but what would you have to do to prove that you were wrong? Yeah, well, that's an interesting question. I think what you would have to do is come up with some sort of story to explain where you've been, OK, what's been going on in the intervening time and like express or have some sort of intimate knowledge of things that only Ron would know.

And who would that person tell that to? Miscavige. David Miscavige.

Yeah, but I my suspicion is that Dave wouldn't take too kindly to that.

Right. So here's my point that, you know, there was a guy that came back and claimed this year.

Yeah, but but but but but Mike, the point is that.

Even if somebody did, even if I trained, let's say you told your sons you trained your sons, right, or one of your sons, OK, this is what I needed to do. Right. You train them for years to know about the confidential data, only insider information. Right. Things that only L. Ron Hubbard would know that, you know, because you were in the sewer for so long. Right.

And one of your sons showed up and said to David Miscavige, OK, son. Time to step aside, I'm back and I'm going to take my rightful place and thank you. Thank you for your service, Scientologist. I mean, David Miscavige. Go get the fuck out of here. Like it. Like it's not going to happen. Like I'm the dude on the scene now. I don't really believe in this reincarnation story. And that's really the truth, that Scientologists really don't believe in this story.

That is that starts pretty early on in Scientology. Right. That's what they sell you on that. You're just a body. This is just one lifetime that you're going to go off to live many lifetimes. So where, Mike, did we agree? Well, we don't really believe in that, but that's basically what Scientology is like. So when we agree that we just to believe that shit, we never believed that because I was like, well, if that were true, where such and such like and I'm entitled to know, you know, saying, well, it's it's like one of those things that you have to sort of put aside.

Yeah.

You have to kind of, you know, like, yeah, well maybe I maybe I haven't reached the level yet where I can fully comprehend what this means or how rights works.

But even if it happened, David Miscavige would be like, get the fuck out of here. I agree.

That's why he said I didn't think you'd be real thrilled if if Ron two showed up like that goofball that showed up claiming to be L. Ron Hubbard reincarnated, who changed his name to Lafayette, Ron Hubbard, and had that fucking sealed symbol tattooed on his forehead or whatever that former crim felon con man. There is a bunch of people that believe the guy.

Right? Right. I mean, I don't know. It's it I don't know. That's bizarre to me. That's just totally bizarre.

Here's another one. Has has has this cult ever canceled an ESP order, meaning an enemy order?

Yes, you must do steps A through E the OK that me like, so if anybody actually wants to know the answer and see it full blown, you could just go to Marty Rathbun blog and go back some time where he was telling the truth about Scientology. Look what he's doing today. That is somebody doing what we call a two steps in Scientology to get back into Scientology good graces. Scientology in turn for the favor of turning on all of his friends, Marty Rathbun.

Scientology has taken down some of their hate websites on Marty.

Very funny. OK, Scientology. Because why does Scientology have a symbol of a crucifix on so many of its buildings when they don't believe in Jesus or Christianity? Why don't they just use their own symbol? OK, do you want me to give you the Scientology response or the real response, the real response? Because both well, both are enlightening the responses because it makes Scientology look religious, because in the U.S. or in the West, at least a cross is equated to religious religious symbology.

And so therefore, Scientology has a cross. It sort of implies that it's religious, like like all the Christian religions. Scientology Cross is not a normal Christian cross. It's a weirdo cross. It's got eight other four other points sticking out of the middle.

Oh, OK. So that's something different. So Scientology's cross has eight points and that and that is that that means their own thing. Well, yes, it might. That's why I said the PR response to this from Scientology is this represents the eight dynamics in Scientology. No.

And so here's the real answer. Nobody wants to hear that. Here's the real answer. To appear like a real church that believes in God. They do that one already.

That's the best answer you could have given. All right. Scientology in Russia, are they currently completely banned?

I saw some videos, but I'm not sure if that's still the same situation or somehow the cult made its way back. I don't think they've made their way back, and I do think that they are currently banned, although I'm not sure that that means that they are actually not operating. I think that they are in some ways operating. I think there's even some people that are in prison now. I just want to say I do not agree with how the Russian government has approached the subject of Scientology.

I don't think it's right to just burst in there and arrest them on no charges and keep people in prison for no reason.

All right. So, Mike, here's one. It's going to sound weird, but could you tell us Scientology's policies on killing suppressive persons, people's dogs and your experience with Miscavige ordering the killing of dogs?

I mean, we we have heard a story over and over again, and it is just coincidence that from. This part we've heard this many times, that people's dogs all of a sudden were poisoned or or died once they started speaking out against Scientology, that that is true. I don't I don't think it's ever been directed to kill a dog.

But you've. No, but my answer to this has always been clear, the people that get hired by Scientology, the private investigators, do a lot of stuff that. Is not there is a lot of nod, nod, wink, wink, oh, we need this done, we need that done. How they go about doing it, we don't want to hear. We just want the results. Right. We're paying for a result. We expect a result.

What you do to get it, we're not even going to say what you do to get it. We just sort of ignore it. And and given the acts that have been taken by private investigators and Scientologists acting on behalf of Scientology against people who have been declared fair game, I have no I it is just too coincidental for all of these things to have just happened as a coincidence. Right. Has have is there a policy that says to do this?

No. But is there a policy that says that they may be tricked, lied, sued or anything may be done to them or that are two forty five should be used and shoot them in the head?

Yes. So killing your pet, who knows?

Right. OK, here's another one like celebrities.

What, in your opinion would it take for a celebrity to leave? Some bad an experience bad enough that it affected them personally and that like the same for everybody, it may not be the same thing for everybody, but ultimately there is something in the experience that they have in Scientology that is like the final straw that just pushed me over the edge.

And then they start questioning. And the instant you begin to question is the instant that you will ultimately get yourself out, because that is the first step.

What it what that what that is for some people, because some would argue and I have I have certainly said this, you would think that the things that have already happened would have been a reason for certain celebrities to leave, and they didn't. And so you just never know what it what it takes for somebody to their tipping point.

Right. And everybody's different. Listen, guys, thank you for these questions. They are amazing.

And we're going to get to another episode where we take more questions and answers. That would be great one day if we could actually talk to people, you know, where they could call in and we could talk to them and they could say, look, that's not the question I ask is it just went on your own tangent. But that's great. But what I actually asked was such and such. Anyway, thank you for listening to next time. Love you, Mikey.

Love you, Lee. Bye bye. On this season of unobscured, we will go back to the streets of Victoria in Whitechapel to follow the trail of Jack the Ripper, will join the police in their attempts to solve a series of brazen and brutal murders as they try to make sense of the violence taking place right in their midst. And we'll explore the alleys, yards and homes where a series of monstrous murders became the most infamous true crime story of modern history.

Unobscured Season three premieres on Wednesday, October 7th. Subscribe today on Apple podcasts, I Heart Radio or wherever you listen to podcasts.

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