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Subscribe now neonate radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to another Scientology Fair Game episode, our podcast, hello, Mike, I Lily, how are you today? I'm good. So today we have a special guest. Mike, would you like to introduce her?

Oh, I would love to introduce totally. OK, today we are welcoming my wife, Christy Colbran.

And the reason that we are welcoming her is because she has another perspective on the game that's a little different than mine, I guess. Hi, Christie. Hi, everybody.

Hi, Christie. Hi, Annie.

Yes, because we always you know, we tell your story, Mike, because you're you know, you're very public and and been very vocal about what you've experienced in Scientology. And Christie kind of gets just kind of lumped in right with your story. But she has her own story and she has her own special fair gaming story because Scientology is very giving in that department.

They hand out free fair game as a little gift of departing this toxic cult.

But but Christie, let's go over your background. Yes. Your Mike's wife. But you are your own person.

And you were born into Scientology and was so you were born into Scientology and and lived with Scientology life, indoctrinated into Scientology at a very young age. You attended a Scientology school and then you joined the paramilitary arm of Scientology called the Sea Organization. And just for those who don't know, the Sea Organization is the employees of Scientology.

They are the ones who run Scientology organizations, administer Scientology to parishioners like me, and they signed a billion year contracts.

They live communally. They the Scientology feeds them.

They closed them.

They take care of their family, their medical needs with with vitamins and quack children pretending to be medical officers in Scientology. But basically, Scientology is raising you.

Is that is that correct, Christy? You're no longer connected even to your Scientology parents at this point.

Once you join the Sea Org, it's totally correct.

And when I joined, I was only 16. So I was a minor and I had to be, you know, kind of given over as a minor to to the Sea Org. So my parents were no longer really taking care of me. I was put into like a really pathetic Scientology school for that I would go to on the weekends, which was, you know, a couple hours here and there. And sometimes we'd miss it because it didn't matter.

What really mattered was getting the work. Yeah, getting the work done. So you know that, you know, I was still a school aged girl and when I joined, so for sure, I'm like there were things I wanted to talk to my parents about. And I got in trouble for talking to them like that was considered, you know, not OK. You don't tell your parents anything. They don't need to know what's going on here.

This is all between you and this.

You are right. And Scientology parents understand that once they give their children over to Scientology, I mean, you see, our children would write internal reports on their Scientology.

Parents of Scientology parents would start to complain to their children like, I don't see you anymore. What are these hours, your working hours for? So your child is eight a.m. to midnight. It doesn't matter how old you are. No one's and people ask us all the time, why is no one reporting it? Who the fuck do you think is reporting it? Like, who's going to report Scientology to the authorities, the Scientology parents that sent their children to the Sea Org?

And they look at sending their children off to the Sea Org as a noble deed that you are. They're sacrificing their children for the good of mankind, right, Mike?

I mean, that's that's mentality. It's like a it's an honor. Right? Right.

So nobody's reporting. And what child is going to go to the authorities going, hey, they're not making me go to school? Believe me, children are of the Sea Org are not going to report.

I mean, children outside of Scientology wouldn't report to the authorities that I'm not going to school.

What child do you know wants to be going to school eight hours a day, you know?

I mean, so parents. Yeah. If the parents are going to report anything, they're going to report it back to to Scientology. So, like, that's what happened to me. I told my mom how excited I was. Oh my God, we got to do an all nighter. It was so awesome because I was like a zealot, little teenager like, woohoo, this is so cool. I get to not see. All night, like, wow, you know, because I was I was a teenager, teenagers are dumb, they do stupid things and think it's awesome.

So that's what I you know, that's what was happening. And I told my mom because I was excited and she wrote a report and sent it in to them saying, you know, why is this OK, that my daughter is not sleeping at night? And then I got pulled in and I was in trouble. So that was the handling. You know, it all goes in internally. Everything's handled internally. And then the handling was, shut up, Kristy, don't say anything to your parents.

Right? Right.

So you're indoctrinated at a young age to accept this kind of abuse and to be groomed to to be this kind of unfeeling, disconnected from your family, even your Scientology family, disconnected from the world, and you're fully indoctrinated into we're clearing the planet.

And now, you know, as a child, you're given this fake military uniform with a lanyard and the epaulets and you think you're in the military, you think you're you're saving mankind. Yeah. You think you're hot shit and you think you're the elite of the world.

And again, even creating more of a divide between you and your Scientology parents, even though they're Scientologists, you still think they're losers because they're not really doing the work of a Sea Org member. And so it creates more of a divide between reality and and. Yes, well, between reality and what, Mike, what would you say? Reality and the bubble.

Correct.

So you went to the international base in 1996 and were around David Miscavige and then we'll take us from there, Kristie. Yeah, so in 1996, I was I went there to be part of a training activity that was going on where a bunch of us were being sent out to take over command of different organizations across the planet. So I was trained and was eventually sent to the continental office in New York that was running the eastern United States. And so I worked there for a while.

But yeah, that sort of was just my first experience with seeing David Miscavige up close and what he was like and how much control he had and how much he ran every little thing and was involved with all the details.

And what's wrong with that? I mean, he is the leader, he is the commander in chief, he is chairman of the board, Kristie. Yeah. Shouldn't I be running things?

Yeah, I suppose so, and they really the answer is the reason why I'm being sarcastic, Christi, and it's kind of a trick question. So you would your buddy was to say Marty Rathbun body rep. Yeah, he David Miscavige likes to claim he knew nothing about what was going on. Right. He claims that he is not part of fair game, that he doesn't direct these activities of fair game.

Right. For example, we were all brought together in a room and, you know, he stared us down with all of his entourage and basically said the reason why we haven't been fired yet, meaning the reason why we haven't been sent out to where we're supposed to go and why we're still here and we've been here so long and we should have been fired once ago, is because there's people within our group that are suppressive and we're going to find them and we're going to weed them out.

So we all had to be put on the emitter, interrogated, and you're internalizing this whole thing going, God isn't me. Did I do something? Am I horrible, bad person that's slowing down this important project? And eventually, in the end, people were figure it out like, OK, it's this guy and that guy and that guy there, the suppressive, they're the ones that are holding us back. They were humiliated in front of the group.

They were sent out to be to go do manual labor.

People were taken off their positions and treated really, you know, evil and mean. And it was like you're sitting I was like 19 years old. Right. This like little 19 year old girl going, holy fucking shit, you know? And here's David Miscavige, you know, yelling at people and taking them off their positions, degrading them, making them feel bad and humiliating them in front of everybody. That's when two senior executives that are very well known, which is only serve and I think it was Ray Madoff, they were two senior executives in Scientology that all the parishioners knew and loved or taken off their posts and made to run around and do manual labor and treated like dogs.

And I witnessed that like I saw that.

And I thought to myself, this is you know, I don't know what I thought to myself. You know, of course, I was so brainwashed. You probably thought is what we all thought was what what Mike thought, what what game Listservs thinks is is they deserved it.

They deserved it. Yeah. And, you know, standing in the way of clearing the planet and saving mankind, this is all justified.

Right. And it's not even that big a deal. Right. Like that. Someone gets humiliated or is made to do gross manual labor, cleaning toilets with a toothbrush or whatever is like physically abuse. What's the big deal?

It's like you get used to saving mankind. This is not like that.

This is and that is sort of my first. Yeah. That was sort of my first taste of like, OK, this is what it really means to be a senior, remember, like, we have to be willing to be, you know, completely humiliated, treated terribly and carry on every day. Just keep on doing the job. Right.

The word is abused. I mean, I know this is not a word that you're used to saying Christly, but you know that you were groomed to be abused and you were groomed to abuse.

So if Scientology. You know, oftentimes they try to say that we were, you know, this or that, the things that we were groomed to be, I mean, this is true. We were groomed to be to take abuse. We were groomed to be abusive. And that is Scientology. And that is what they teach. And that is what they will continue to teach. Right. Until something is done about it. And hopefully we are making I know that we are making headway in this department.

I mean, people are not fooled by Scientology. And I don't think that everybody gets that part, that it's a day in, day out grooming. Right. And I looked at things in my experience in Scientology differently. You know, I would say the words outside when referring to my boss and Scientology having sex with an with a minor. It was just said to us that he cheated on his wife, not that he molested a child, right?

Yeah. That he broke the rules of the group. And it's like, well, what does that mean?

Well, no, he didn't really break the rules of the group because there is no rules of the group. There is no rules of the group, Kristie.

Well, just meaning whatever in the sea or in the sea or there's rules of the group that are you don't you don't break these out to these rules. Right. And so then if you break them, that's out to these.

And they're based on whatever these specific rules are, these rules are, hey, you're not allowed to have sex before marriage, right? Oh, these rules are. Hey, all right. So you don't want to be married to this one. Go marry that one. Marriage is not an important thing in Scientology. You only marry people in the sewer so that you could live not in a dorm and maybe have sex once every three years. But that's a normal marriage.

But, you know, interpersonal relationships are not important in Scientology. Your familial ties are not important in Scientology, even if they're Scientologists. So relationships between each other are they're not valued.

They're just there's no value in in relationships because it would strengthen something in you that they don't want. Right. Which is you not being fully and 100 percent loyal and reliant on Scientology. Well, that's absolutely true.

The group, the group ethnic or the group ethic or the group relationship is what is important.

Your relationship to Scientology trumps everything when particularly when you're in the Sea Org. Correct.

That is the only thing that matters is your dedication and loyalty and willingness to do whatever is needed for the good of Scientology. That's the only thing that counts. And you're right, personal relationships detract from that.

They are seen as a as a something that may pull you away from your 100 percent devotion and dedication to the organization.

Right.

Because let's say Christie called her mother when she joined the Sea Org and said, mom, I want to leave the court.

Her mother's first instinct would be to call the Sea Org and say, my daughter's saying she wants to leave. Then she would be submitting her daughter to interrogations on the Scientology lie detector meter. You would be punished for having communicated that to your mother. And your mother wouldn't receive you most likely if you ran away and went to your mother for for comfort.

I mean, if you left without them telling you you can leave, you would get in trouble. And so would your Scientology mother and father.

Yeah, I would have been sent right back. Go back to them and fix it. Stay there until it's fixed. And you're not welcome here until this is resolved based on how they want it to be resolved.

And Christie, did you ever report to the authorities once you left Scientology? What was going on with you as a child, the hours that you were working, that you weren't going to school? All of the you know, when I left, I was originally when I left this year, I was still trying to remain in good standing with the church so that I could continue to have my family in my life. Right.

Because even though you leave the sewer doesn't mean you leave Scientology in Scientology.

If you leave the Sea Org, you can root out, as they call it, properly, which means you confess to to crimes you didn't commit and then you signed paperwork and do a video where you go, yeah, everything was great, everything was great.

Had the greatest time ever in the Sea Org. Nothing bad ever happened to me. No laws are broken and I'm fantastic and totally OK with the group.

And I'll let you leave, go ahead, and not only that, but if anything was bad, it was my fault. And here's all the bad things I did that they have on me here. Here's all the collateral. I did this when I did that wrong. So just in case I do decide to speak out about it, they have all this bad dirt on me. And if I do decide to speak out on it, I also will owe this huge bill that they're now going to say that I can't you're not allowed to speak out.

And if you do, we're going to sue you for this much money or whatever. Here, sign here. And only if you sign here are you allowed to leave and then buy the video. And there's a lawyer in the room. And so you are completely intimidated and all you want to do is sign and say anything and promise anything so you can get out the door.

Right. And many people have done it and many people will do it just to leave and to keep their family intact, because most of these people are coming from Scientology families and because they were in the Sea Org and sequestered from any family outside of Scientology or friends outside of Scientology, they have to rely on their Scientology parents to take them in and to help them to build a life for them, because, like you said, virtually none of us really had an education or education was basically in Scientology to be taught Scientology.

And we have no nothing to fall back on.

Yeah, I mean, despite doing all of that, despite following those rules and doing the best I could to stay in good standing, I became aware of even more of what was going on that I didn't know, that I didn't see with my own eyes. I learned more after I left and decided, OK, I don't want anything to do with Scientology at all. I want to leave completely, not just a Sea Org, but I want to leave Scientology.

I don't want to have anything to do with this church. Right. And I tried to do that sort of, you know, under the radar as we sometimes use that phrase quietly. And I was really hard. And so eventually I lost my family anyway, my entire family disconnected my mother and father, my brother and sister, all the friends I knew, everyone I'd ever grown up with for my entire life cut me out of my life. And that was, you know, even despite trying to not let that happen, it still happened.

Right. Well, let's go back a little bit.

You looked you looked to see in 2006. Yeah. You were still in the sewer when you got pregnant. I was in it this year, I got pregnant basically intentionally, I always wanted to have children and we my ex-husband and I wanted to leave he.

So your husband. So you married your your ex-husband, your ex-husband?

Chris and I were married while I was in the sea or we were together in the Sea Org and we both.

How old were you? I got married when I was like twenty one to him, and so I was twenty nine, I think, when I could have those years wrong. But anyway I was, I was twenty nine when I left this year.

So you got pregnant. You are. I mean I thought they don't allow your members to get pregnant.

Yeah they don't. You're not allowed to get pregnant. You're not allowed to have babies. But of course that does happen. People get pregnant and if you get pregnant, they send you away. You're kicked out. Or as many people have gone through, they pressure you to have an abortion.

My ex husband worked even more closely with David Miscavige than me. And he was he witnessed things that I didn't see with my own eyes. So he witnessed some of David Miscavige, his underlings, Jenny debarked, for example, a specific person slapped somebody in the face and he went to the Freewinds and saw senior executives like Mike Rinder in the bilges being treated as if they were suppressive persons. Norman Starky, some of these other top senior executives that people some people know who they are.

He saw all of that. And he he really figured out that he wanted to leave. They also were for telling him he was going to get promoted to the international base. And he was like, hell, no, I don't want to be there after what I witnessed.

So he started seeing the abuses that were being put upon senior executives of Scientology. He started to witness the abuse himself.

He started to witness it. And then he was told and also you are being moved up to to work at this base where all the abuses were were mainly taking place, right?

Yeah.

Like, OK, you're you've been chosen and you're moving up to the top now. And he said, that's the top. Like, this is you know, this is I don't want to be here. So M and I were working in South Africa. He went to the base. He saw all of that. He came home. And I would have expected him to be like, wow, was amazing. I saw all this amazing stuff at the top where it's supposed to be the best, where we're supposed to be using this amazing L.

Ron Hubbard technology to create this amazing world. And the first thing he said to me was, we got to get the hell out of here. I want to leave this. You know, the things I saw at the top are worse than anything I've ever witnessed. And he explained to me some of what he saw. And so we decided we wanted to leave. There's kind of more to it. He was trying to leave for a really long time.

He was being interrogated on the ATM for months and months and months. And they basically made it so difficult that he changed his mind and said, OK, I'll stay like it was just pressure. So much pressure. And we were separated. We weren't allowed to be together. He was taken to L.A. I stayed in South Africa. It was this long, drawn out, painful process where eventually we both said, OK, we want to stay. And we finally were reunited.

We were able to be together. We were able to talk again. We hadn't talked to each other for months. They separated us. So finally we were able to talk again and be together. And I could tell that he still wanted to leave. He he had just done all of that so that he could talk to the media. And so I said to him, they're never going to let you leave. They're going to keep interrogating you, as they have done for almost six months.

They're going to continually do this to you. And unless we find another solution. And so I said let's I don't it was my idea. I said, why don't we have a baby, let's get pregnant, and then we'll keep it a secret, which I did. I kept it a secret for two and a half months. As long as I felt comfortable keeping it a secret, that was really hard, keeping it a secret. And then eventually I we told them and I did that so that I would avoid the pressure to have abortion.

I didn't want to have an abortion. I didn't want to be talked into it. And I was afraid of my will and my strength to fight. I was afraid they would put so much pressure on me that I would just give in and just be like, OK, I'll do it. And I didn't. I wanted to avoid at all cost.

So because, Christa, you had seen this over and over again, women being forced to abort their children that you didn't want to.

Yes, I had seen it. I had heard of it from friends I knew of people that had. And when that happens, not only are you getting an abortion, but you're also like you're persona non grata, you're in trouble, you're in the doghouse. You're a piece of shit. Everyone looks at you like you're so bad.

It's not just not because you're aborting your child, but because you've gotten pregnant, because.

Yeah, because you've gotten pregnant. And potentially we're about to leave the group and abandon your post. And the fucking more important than what we're doing here. And how could you dare go off and. Let that happen, right? Personal growth is challenging, but it doesn't have to be hard when we lean in to self inquiry and self discovery, we're able to love all the tiny little parts of us, even the pieces we don't want other people to know about.

And that's what it's really about, right? Self-love, self acceptance, self discovery, excavation expansion. We are the powerful cocreator of our lives. All we need are the tools to get there.

I'm Debbie Brown, the host of the Dropping Gems podcast, a podcast about the depth and potential personal growth. No one's journey is the same as the next, but the magic of being human shows up in the things we have in common our capacity for love, pain, joy, sadness, togetherness and solitude are things that make us perfectly imperfect. And I want to explore with you how we can live our best through it all. New season of Dropping Gems is available.

Now listen. Dropping gems on the I Heart radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts.

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So you tell them that you're pregnant and you want to leave. Yes, so I told them I'm pregnant, I want to leave. And so we were somehow we managed to avoid the conversation about abortion that didn't it didn't get brought up for Chris and I. And we are we were sent to a little tiny room in the bottom of the building where we were under guard by security and were basically put on the program that you have to do when you want to leave, which is more interrogations and more physical labor.

I wasn't made to do as much physical labor because I was pregnant, but everyone else was made to do very heavy physical labor. And then I was able to complete that program, eventually got out and I was four and a half months pregnant. So that took another two and a half months. And then I waited for Chris and then he didn't get out until I was almost six or seven months pregnant. And so it just took forever that that process was not slow.

And then we finally left and we came to Clearwater because his family lived in Clearwater. But we were not allowed to live with Chris's family because they lived too close to the flag land base, which then wait, why is the ocean.

So the flag land base was only 20 minutes from their house. And we were told that since we are ex Sea Org members, which kind of puts a stain on us, even though we're not ex Scientologists, we need to stay away from the flag land base and not be anywhere near it. Basically, I guess the idea is to continue to keep the PR and facade that everything's great and there's not all of these ex Sea Org members leaving who witnessed things and saw things to kind of keep us far away from where the active, quote unquote, Scientologists were participating and doing courses.

So we were told we had to live within one hour driving distance from the flag land base. Even though we could have lived for free with my in-laws, we weren't allowed to stay there. So we were forced to find an apartment an hour away and we had no money.

We just left the sewer. We had nothing.

So it would have to. So we found an apartment in Trinity and Chris got job working for a tree trimming company that has, you know, because his family was in good standing with Scientology and they had friends that were Scientologists with local businesses. So he got a job working for a Scientologist that had a tree trimming business.

OK, so now just so people don't know, the flag land base is located in Clear Clearwater, Florida, and the flag land base is basically labeled as the Mecca of Scientology.

This is like that is supposed to be the Disneyland of Scientology. This is where all the top spenders go to get onto their confidential levels of Scientology, the big ones anyway. Right. You can do up to a certain level in Los Angeles. And that's it. Right.

Mike is Los Angeles and Sydney and U.K. and Copenhagen and South Africa. But in order to to get to the top of the Scientology Bridge to total freedom, you have to go to Clearwater and the flag land base. And like you say it it is it is the pretense is that this is the ideal world of Scientology.

This is the the pinnacle of where Scientology is at its finest and its its finest accomplishments and finest people are all on display there. And this weird thing of Sea Org members not being allowed to live in Clearwater has been around for a long time. I don't even know when it first started. But they I think that the original idea was we don't want these people ganging up and banding together. So we got to keep them spread apart because if they gang up and band together, they may get bad ideas and may talk to one another about what their experiences were.

Right.

Like, if somebody knew Christi and Chris and the Sea Org, they'd be like, wait a minute, you were like an upper management. What are you doing in civilian clothes? Why are you in civilian spaces like what happened? And they would make people wonder what's happening. And you'd be like, oh, I got pregnant because you couldn't tell the truth. Like, shit is going down. And Scientology and the upper level, starting with David Miscavige on down.

There's beatings going on.

They don't want you talking. So that makes sense. But what what doesn't make sense? I mean, it makes sense to somebody who was also brainwashed and understands this. This is nuts, this crazy, crazy theology. I mean, but but for people like they're wondering, why was your family OK with this? Why was your why were you guys OK with it?

And you guys just need to understand that you're not ready to walk away from the only family. You know, you don't have a network of people who are there ready to help you.

So you have to rely, unfortunately, on your Scientology parents and you and your Scientology friends and you have to tow the line or you're just homeless.

Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

Right. Yeah. And and the family, if they have all sorts of Scientology tentacles into them, you know, like Chris's parents were very, very active Scientologists. His mother was the the executive director of the Tampa org.

So they can't just they can't break all the Scientology rules. They have to stick to the protocols, too.

So it's like this all these these webs of control mechanisms that that circulate around this environment, why I call it a bubble, because within that bubble, it's a completely different world. It's it's like that Jim Carrey movie. I can't even remember what it's called now, but it's like this phony world with all these rules and regulations. And people believe that those rules and regulations are actually reality.

Right. And they're not right in the real world.

Those rules and regulations everybody looks at and just laughs or or, you know, slaps themselves on the head or goes, oh, my God, this is ridiculous. How could anybody be involved or believe this or go along with it and you know it. This is how the world of a cult is. Right. And we you know, I've been as we talked to Mark the S.A and you see it in Nexium, that was like a classic example of a world that is created that everybody in it is in a.

Agreement that this is reality and it's wow, it's crazy and just like the world of Scientology, it's crazy, right?

So, Christy, did your parents, your parents or Chris's parents ever ask you guys why you love to see or were they not interested in the abuses that you were receiving? I mean, certainly your mother knew at 16 that you were working all nighters and being deprived of an education.

And here you are over a decade later, two decades later, leaving the Sea Org, none of them asked their children what happened.

No, they didn't really ask for details, and probably because most of them were also doing the upper levels of Scientology themselves. So, you know, all of our family were on the OT seven level, the operating Faten level number seven, which is like one of the highest levels you can do in the counseling on the bridge.

And so they were all doing that level, all of our parents, his parents, my parents.

And on that level, you get a six month interrogation check because whatever seven just everybody knows takes 10 years or more to do.

And you have to do it every day, meaning you have to counsel yourself every single day, five times a day, and you have to report to the Mecca flag every six months, like Chrissie is saying, to get a interrogation to see if you've been doing it right, to make sure you're not on the Internet, to make sure you're not looking at anything that you shouldn't be looking at, to ask questions about.

They ask questions about, you know, do you have any bad intentions towards David Miscavige? Like they ask all these questions. And so my parents didn't want to be they didn't want to have anything in their brain that they would then have to say in this interrogation.

So they don't want to do Scientology feel like they have to confess like. Yes. Why do they believe that the meter, the Scientology lie detector can read your mind? Right.

So they don't want they're like, don't tell me. Tell me anything.

I'm telling my mother used to say that to me, like when she was a flag. She used to tell me, Leah, I can't afford this because they charge you thousands and thousands of dollars. You're not allowed to stay in a regular hotel.

They forced you to stay at their hotel. They forced you to pay for their food. You can't eat outside you get.

So my mother would say, don't tell me anything. If you're having any hard times in Scientology, I can't I cannot stay another day. I cannot afford this. Like, they get petrified to hear or see anything that would cause them more time in Scientology. Exactly.

So they didn't ask any questions. They didn't want to know the details. OK, so now you and Chris are going along.

You're trying to build a life after leaving the Sea Org, you have your son Shane and what happens after that? So Chris is still Chris had a lot more doubts about Scientology than I ever did. And that's one of the things that makes me feel so thankful that he was ever in my life. And, you know, we're we're still friends because we co parent with my son, Shane.

I just want to say that you were not just friends. What I have witnessed between you guys is amazing. Like, you guys have an amazing relationship. And that with Mike Mike, with your ex-husband and and Shane, I mean, you guys vacation together. You guys house at each other's like you guys have an amazing, amazing relationship.

You said such a beautiful example to to those who maybe don't are not the best examples and don't have their children at the forefront of their mind.

And I think it's a beautiful thing what you're creating for for your children to see that, no, we're not married anymore, but we all love each other. And you don't just Mike, you don't just tolerate Chris. Chris doesn't just tolerate you. You love each other or your family. Yeah.

And and I. I'm glad you brought that up, Leah, and thank you for doing so, because Chris is a wonderful dad, like.

Yeah, he is a terrific father. And he treats Jack Christie and my son like his own son. Right.

He sleeps over at Chris's house. When you guys leave town, it's like, yeah, we we literally have a terrific relationship. And that is not just us. That's also on Chris and his new wife who, yes, we adore. And so we're all get along very, very well. And it's good it's good for the boys, of course, but yeah, it's good for all know.

And this was not something that was taught to any of you in Scientology to to be this loving and open hearted and for what you have all experience meaning. Mike, Christy and Chris, what you witnessed in Scientology was a.. All of this was anti family, was anti empathy, compassion, love. This was not taught to you by your own parents. You did not receive this from your parents. And so this is something that was innate in all of you, which, you know, Mike says a lot.

You know, there was that piece of humanity that was left somewhere in you, that which enabled you to leave.

Right. And start looking and disagree with with what's going on there. And so as a family, I just I want to praise what you guys have done, because I think it's a beautiful, beautiful thing.

You set such a beautiful example.

So, anyway, go ahead. Thank you for saying that, Leah. Yeah. So I'm trying to remember where I was.

So so Chris was like Don. Chris was like, I'm not even wanting to be like Scientology. And that's really we want to pretend to be connected to this organization anymore.

Yeah, he he just did not get anything really out of it. You know, sometimes some of us have these like mediocre what we call wins or gains or some some piece of goodness we got out of some part of Scientology. He just felt kind of like he never got anything out of it at all whatsoever and wanted really nothing to do with it and started looking into things and Googling things and looking on the Internet and eventually talking. He actually secretly went and met with Marty Rathbun and told me he was going on a business trip.

He lied to me and I suspected it.

And he came home and I said, Did you just go visit Marty Rathbun? And. He said yes, and at the time, Christi, you're talking about Marty Rathbun was being very vocal about his own crimes that he had committed while in Scientology at the behest of David Miscavige and was telling his story not only to the press, but to the authorities, right, Mike?

Yes, absolutely. Yeah. It was a big whistleblower at the time. Yes. He was the biggest whistleblower that ever left Scientology. So for all of us, little kind of freshly out Sea Org members, this was a big deal because he was we we had seen him. We had worked with him. He was the right hand man under David Miscavige. And it was like for us, we were like Marty Rathbun left. Holy shit.

And so it was a big deal to us. And so Chris secretly spoke to him.

And what that meant to me was that Chris was done a hundred thousand percent done and willing to speak to people that are, quote unquote on the dark side or people who were enemies into enemies of Scientology.

Yeah. And and I hadn't yet spoken to Marty myself because, like I said, I was trying to keep my family together and I had to follow the rules and remain in good standing. But Chris kept telling me more and more about the things that Marty was telling him, which were very revealing new information, just like, oh, my God, there's so much more than we even know. David Miscavige beats people. David Miscavige spends all the you know, he spends tons of money while meanwhile we're getting paid maybe 50 bucks a week.

He's getting his shoes done by the same woman who makes the shoes for the queen of England or whatever, just like stuff like that. That's just blowing my mind. Like what?

And so eventually I said, OK, I want to talk to him myself. And I knew that when I made that phone call and I spoke to him on the phone, I was speaking with the enemy.

And I knew as soon as I crossed that line that you two that you two were the enemy and that enemy, that was the moment that for me was like this moment of like I do, I want to cross this line.

Do I actually want to do this? Because this is this is the beginning of the end for me. And I did it and I made the phone call and I spoke on the phone with him and I listened to what he had to say. And it was like there was no turning back then. It's like, you know, you open the door and, you know, OK, this is where my life changed to.

It's hard to negate the truth. Exactly. Yeah.

So so after you did that, so you and then, by the way, just to also just to inform you, Marty Rathbun is no longer now telling the truth about Scientology. He's gone back into the fold of Scientology and is now attacking all of us.

That's right. Right. Yeah, OK.

Yeah. So parents then disconnected from you. Why did you do something public? Chris told too many friends that he was talking to Marty because he was, I guess, excited, and he mentioned to one of his friends that I was planning a trip to L.A. to talk everything over with my parents. And this was a I hadn't told my parents that I was just coming to visit. They thought I was just coming to visit, but I was planning to talk to them and kind of give them all the new information that I had and see if I could get them to understand my point of view or live with you.

Right. Or and leave with me. Leave with me. Understand?

I just wanted to talk to them. And so that kid, that friend that one of the guys that Chris spoke to reported us to the Office of Special Affairs, the Division of Scientology that takes care of enemies and deals with enemies. So we were reported, Mike Myers, former former office, that the head of. Yes, exactly.

Twisted little late you might have been. Thank you, Mike.

So anyway, so so those people from the Office of Special Affairs contacted my parents and I get a phone call from my mom or my dad. I can't remember which one first called me, but one of them called me and said, Ossa is on the way to the house to come and see us. And they say that you and Chris are talking to bad people and they're coming here to tell us all about it and what's going on. And so this is my chance.

Like, I'm not expecting to have this conversation with my parents on the phone. I'm expecting to have it in person on the weekend when I fly over there. I'm flying out on Friday. This is like a Tuesday or something. And now all of a sudden and it's seven o'clock at night and my little two year old is tired and crying and he wants me to put him to sleep. And I'm a mom and I'm like, and now here's my mom and dad going.

They're on their way. They're coming here right now. What's going on? And this is my chance. This is it. This is my only chance to salvage my you know, I'm about to lose my family is what I'm afraid. Like, instantly I'm like, holy shit, Ozzy is on their way. They're going to tell them that we're talking to Marty Rathbun. They're going to tell them we're bad and they're going to disconnect from me. And I tried my best.

I had, I don't know, thirty minutes to an hour maybe to try to give them all this information. And I'm a nervous wreck and I don't know what things to say and not to say. I don't know what they're going to believe and I'm just trying to say whatever I know. And my dad's like, well, this all sounds really weird and crazy and I don't know what you're talking about. And eventually I said, well, I have to go because Shane is like literally crying and ready for bed, super tired.

So I get off the phone, I put my kid to bed, and then when when I next speak to them OSes, they're I can tell everything has changed. And now they're basically they've been indoctrinated. They know what's going on. They know that Chris and I are on the dark side. And they're they're they were kind of given like one or two chances to try to they were given chances to try to handle us now, now now they're trying to handle me and Chris.

So they basically said things to me like, you know, you need to come here. You need to speak with us. You know, please just come home, honey, and we'll sort this all out. You know, the kind of things that parents say when they think you're doing something bad and it's going to be OK. Everything's going to be fine. Just come here and talk to us, OK? Please. And and and I said, well, I don't want to talk to Oza.

I want to talk to you. I will come and talk to you. And they said, well, you're going to have to talk to Oza when you come. And I'm like, hell no, I am not going anywhere near those people. And so I canceled my flight and. That was it, like the conversations didn't go anywhere because they weren't really willing to listen, so was there physically present and eventually my mother. Oh, and when I was trying to enlighten her and say things to her that I knew she was doing what you said your mother did.

Don't tell me that. I don't want to know that. I don't want to hear about that. Don't tell me that David Miscavige beats people. I stop. And it was like, Mom, this is what's this is the truth. No, no, no, no, no. I can't have that in my head. I don't want to I don't want to know that. And so it was it was not I just I didn't really have much time.

I didn't really it didn't really go how I wanted it to go. And that was the end of it. And I said to my mother. Are you going to disconnect from me and she said, if they tell me that I have to, I will, I don't want to. But if they tell me that I have to, I will. And so at the end of the day, that's it. She wasn't going to stand up. She wasn't going to fight.

She wasn't going to you know, she wasn't going to do it.

She just was like, OK, here there goes my daughter. They told me I have to. So they're in charge. And it was over and they disconnected.

So both your dad and your mom disconnected. And what about Chris's family, Chris?

His family did not disconnect. They they left Scientology, did they? They did. Yes, they left Scientology.

Both of them. Yeah. His boat. Wow. Yeah.

What do you think the differences there that why one set of parents decided we're with their kid. Because, you know, that's not like we spoke about at the very beginning.

Familial ties, maternal feelings, fraternal feelings. They are just not there and nurtured in Scientology families.

I think that the difference is that Christine, which is Chris's mother, was also on staff. Like Mike mentioned, she was the executive director of the Tampa Church of Scientology, the local smaller Nancy morgue, but still a Scientology organization. And she had her own trouble there and her own bad experiences as a staff member that led her to say that there's something wrong here. And my parents did not. My parents did work in Scientology in the earlier days, like in the 70s and the 80s.

And so they were like, oh, these things happen. People come and go. Marty Rathbun is just another guy and whatever. Like they had whatever they had all their ways of, of excusing it and saying that it wasn't anything new. Right.

So your parents disconnect from you. Had they ever met their grandchildren? They met Shane maybe one or two times, you know, because I did have that first two years of leaving where I had Shane, but they never met Jack. Yeah, we came back with Mike, right? Yeah. My son Jack was with Mike. They never met him. Mike and I actually went there one time when we were on a trip in L.A. and Jack was six months old.

And we went to the house, my parents house, and I had Jack in my arms and we tried to connect with them. And I knocked on all the doors and I even knocked on the neighbor's door and they said, yeah, your dad's around. That's his car is right there. But he wasn't. He wasn't he was hidden away. And, you know, we were pretty sure that Scientology had sent the private investigators ahead to tell my dad to be unavailable and not answer the door or go somewhere or take a walk or whatever.

So, no, they've never met my other son, so they wouldn't open the door to, you know, OK, and now a guy.

So then what happens as far as your fair game? Because did you then go public with your story?

Yes. So in. I think it was the beginning of 2010. I was interviewed by The New York Times, actually, Chris and I were both interviewed. We were featured on the front cover of I think it was the front cover. Wasn't Mike the front cover?

Yeah, it was. It was the front page of the Sunday New York Times. That's right. And so they did a story about us leaving leaving Scientology. At the time, I didn't leave the face, quote unquote. Right. I just left the Sea Org, so I was still trying to be a good Scientologist. Even after my parents disconnected from me, I still didn't completely give up the faith. I was still sort of a believing Scientologist because these things took it was like an onion.

You know, you peel away the layers. Yes. So at that point, I was still a believer of, you know, some parts of Scientology. So the interview, the interview kind of focused on how how I left Scientology, how I left to see how I lost my family. But I was also still a believer.

And and then that led to being interviewed by the Today Show, which so I sat in front of Matt Lauer and he interviewed me and I shared a bit more about my story. And so that was kind of a big deal. I mean that for me. I had never done anything like that before.

So you start doing press before the press part. Were you and Chris separated?

OK, so my parents disconnected from me, but Chris's parents did not.

They were. So they your relationship is still intact there.

Yes. With them. And then about six months later or so, Chris and I split up and we were no longer together, but amicably like you guys.

Yeah. Still. Yeah, relatively amicably. I mean, in the beginning it was a little bit harder. You know, we kind of had to work through things, but we split up. And so at that point, I was a single mom alone with a two year old. I lost my parents and now also lost my husband. And I didn't have a lot of friends. I didn't know a lot of people. I was really starting over from scratch from like the bottom of the bottom.

And right around that is when I met Mike and a friend, a mutual friend who was an ex Seahawk member, introduced Mike and I. And we started spending a lot of time together. We had a lot in common, obviously. And yeah, that was kind of the beginning of our relationship. And love was born.

And, you know, shortly after we got together. Kristi, you were on the front page of the Sunday edition of The New York Times talking about the disconnection that you had been through. You got interviewed by Matt Lauer on the Today show following that New York Times and then also by Anderson Cooper. So you sort of went out into the world as someone speaking out about, particularly at that point, the abuses of disconnection in Scientology. And to some extent, the the abuse is ongoing through David Miscavige.

But you, you and me still were, quote, practicing Scientology like we thought that there was still value in you still that you guys thought that you're still a pureness to the actual technology of Scientology, independent of the organization like Marty Rathbun.

Exactly. Right. Right. And there was a whole movement out there, individual, what is it, independent, independent Scientology.

So you guys are still somewhat believers, although you can't be a believer of Scientology without the organization.

They don't allow it. They I mean, you cannot practice Scientology outside the organization, which, again, when people say it's like any other religion, really. So you're not allowed to pray outside of a church or synagogue? Well, in Scientology, you're not allowed to practice Scientology outside of Scientology without paying them. You cannot practice Scientology without being seen as an enemy.

Right, the organization, right? Exactly. Exactly right. So is that when the fair gaming began, Kristie, when you started being vocal and doing press because Scientology knows what you're saying is true, they just don't want you speaking about it.

I think so, yeah, I mean, there was some then and then I think it got even more ramped up when of course, when I became the better half of the Mike Rinder couple.

Yes, I would say what started happening so well.

So what was the what is the you know, that's funny that you guys say that because most people that meet me and Angelil go, oh, like they meet Angelo and they love him.

And then they meet me and they're like, oh, nice Angelo for Angelo. OK, so so what what starts happening? Tell us about the gaming that start that sort of just because a guy was sent to your house. Yeah. To try to handle you. Right. Who was that?

So Mike was out of town and they specialized in doing this when Mike was out of town. So he would be I don't know where he went. Maybe he was. Where did you go? I remember I'm sure Mike was doing drugs.

Mike was talking to those already when I went to Texas to help Debbie Cook.

OK, so there you go. So Mike was always doing you know, Mike was always in on the action. And so they would send somebody to talk to me, especially when he was out of town. So this guy shows up at the house and he knocks on the door and I open the door and he says he is a volunteer with Oza. So the Office of Special Affairs that we've already mentioned. So he's a volunteer with Oza and he's sent here to to try to handle me.

And he basically started in telling me how I'm a squirrel, a squirrel being the Scientology term for somebody who leaves Scientology and still tries to use the the technology like we were sort of doing outside of the church. And so he was telling me, I'm a squirrel and there's still hope for me if I changed my ways and I go back to the fold and leave Mike and, you know, make up the damage, I can still get back into the graces and be with my family, my parents and whatever.

And I just said, no, thank you, goodbye. Close the door. But of course, it scared me. And I was at the time, this is the first time that something like that happened. So I called Mike and I don't remember exactly what you said, but I think you said something like, you know, if this happens again, call the police. If anyone else comes to the house and you're alone and they're coming to bother you or talk to you, harass you or say anything, do you like this?

Call the police. So he left. He didn't come back. He didn't that specific guy didn't bother me again. But that was kind of the first thing. And I was like, OK, this guy is he comes to the house when Mike's not here. Following that, there were other things. So the next time it happened, I was at I think I was like getting a blood test done, you know, for the doctor, for my annual checkup or whatever.

And so I was at lab core where they do these blood tests or they where they draw your blood.

And I finished and I walked out the door and I was getting into the going to the car.

And Jim Lynch, who was at the time, the Freedom magazine reporter, which is the Church of Scientology magazine magazine.

Yeah. It's a hate magazine. Exactly where they talk about people like us, the enemies, quote unquote, and challenges of portended.

Reporter for this Portended magazine.

That's exactly right.

He was about and his job is to harass you, to try to get a rise out of you. They have cameras and it looks like he's legit and it causes a scene. And and they say horrible things like how do you feel about being under investigation, child molester? And they try to throw out these crazy accusations so that people hear that. And there's a camera crew there and it looks legit.

And that's exactly what he did. He literally jumped out of the bushes like I didn't know he was there. I'm walking along and this man jumps out of the bushes and sticks a microphone in my face. And there's a two or three other guys there and one with a camera. And it's like in my face, how do you feel about blah, blah, blah, blah, blah? And what do you think about being investigated by Scientology or whatever?

He said, I can't remember the words, but it was very shocking. And I'm I'm just by myself walking down the road like, who is this guy? What does he want?

It was very just. Well, it's alarming. It's alarming. You're being stalked, you're being harassed, you're being slandered. If anybody standing there listening to it, I mean, it's all of those things.

Yeah. The stalking part is you just put a pin on it. They know where I am. Like, they're following me. They know where I am, to not even know to come here. Like, what the hell is that like? They are obviously following. Or there's a tracker on my car or something because they know right where I am and they jumped out of the bushes and it's just concerning and it's scary and it's scary for female.

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Why don't you tell the story about Nick Lyster? I mean, that story is mostly. Mike, Mike, put this on the list I actually hit and had no contact with Nick Lester, but Nick tells this where did he tell this, Mike?

Maybe you should tell this story.

I don't remember. I don't remember. But just the in addition to this guy that was sent to the house when I wasn't there subsequently, this this kid called Nick Lister reported that he had been pulled in to the flag and and as a part of his amends project because he was trying to get back into good standing or something at the time he was instructed or asked by Cathy True of Oza to go while I was out of town and attempt to seduce Kristi.

And this was the way that he described this, right? Nicholas drys obviously since left the Church of Scientology, which is why we know the story, because they told the story, right? Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, but but it's just indicative of and given my history of experience, it doesn't surprise me.

That is exactly the sort of thing that gets done.

Seeking to. Target, that which is most important or which you are seeking to protect or split apart those people who are allies, who are supportive of you, and this it just goes along with this idea of intimidation.

We're going to do anything we can or anything that we think we can get away with to make it so that you want to stop talking about what you know happens in Scientology.

And that's sort of the essence of everything that goes on with these fair game activities, is to ultimately have you as a dismissed attacker, as we've talked about so many times.

It's like the gathering information about you or doing things to you that you that they believe will cause you to stop talking. Right.

And by the way, this story of Dick Lyster, you could find this online. I'm going to have seen him tell the story. And I seen the video where he. Right. Admits to this happening.

But but, yes, you're right. They want to destroy everything possible and they go they'll use any avenue to do so. Did Nick ever try to seduce?

You know, I never heard from Nick at all, but I think this was just him saying he was asked to do this, OK, and then after that.

So you've been followed everywhere. I mean, this is. Yes. Well documented. And then you and Mike buy a house together, right? You bought a house in Clearwater somewhere close to Clearwater, Florida.

Right. We didn't buy that house, but we yeah, we had a home and Internments rented a house in Tarpon Springs.

OK, well, yeah. Which was where you remember Sierra Westermann who came on to the aftermath, who was a private investigator, and she said she lived in this house that was like sort of across the street from where we lived.

And she put GPS tracking on our cars and noted down the license plates of everybody that came in.

And there were cameras on that house. Well, Sierra Westermann was not the only person that resided in that house right when she left, another woman moved in and her name was Heather McAdoo.

And she was placed there by those. So these women were were placed there by Scientology.

Scientology spent their tax exempt money to rent this house, but pay for sort surveillance cameras. And these gypsies hired this these guys, these piddly pieces.

But they they were paying good money to to watch YouTube 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

Right? Absolutely correct.

And and and and the the story of Heather McAdoo is even more convoluted than Sierra Westermann, because Heather McAdoo was actually sent in to become an agent provocateur. She didn't just watch.

She was sent and set up to engage, particularly Christi and I will let her tell the story. In fact, Christi wrote or I wrote an article about this on my blog that I'll have a link to, but she can just give you the sort of overview of it.

I was walking in the neighborhood with my son and my dog, and I run into this lady and she has a little boy and we chatted and said hello. And I ran into her a couple of times. And so, you know, just being neighborly, eventually we start becoming more and more friendly with each other until one day she invites me. She leaves me this little cute envelope. It says neighbor on it and invites me to her pampered chef party at her house.

And at this time, I'm like eight months pregnant, seven or eight months pregnant with Jack and I. I don't go to the pampered chef party because I forget all about it. And I feel so bad that I feel mommy brained.

Everybody gets this. Yes, exactly. But I feel bad.

Yeah, I feel bad that I didn't go and then I didn't call her in or that I didn't do anything. So I call her because she gives me her phone number and the invitation and I said, Oh, I'm so sorry I didn't come. And I, you know, I know I mentioned I thought I was going to come and I couldn't make it. And I'm pregnant. I'm tired and this and that. And maybe we can have a playdate with the kids one day.

And so now she has my phone number. And so then begins the incessant texting and the beginning it seemed OK. She was just text and say, hey, let's get together with the kids. She had a little boy that was the same age as Shane and we can hang out. And I thought, oh, this is nice. You know, I have a friend in the neighborhood who has a son the same age as my son. And isn't that nice, and I didn't have a lot of friends because I just left to see or know, not just, but I was still making new friends in the world and building a life.

Exactly. And so so I go to her house one time she comes to my house where three houses apart. So that's easy. And we hang out and but I'm starting to get a couple of, like, weird vibes from her. She says things that are sometimes odd, like specific details that she brings into the conversation that just kind of put up my Spidey senses a little bit like she mentions that she's very health conscious and that her her boyfriend or her ex-boyfriend is a lot older than her.

And I'm thinking, is she saying these things so she can be more like me so that she thinks we can have things in common?

Because what she try to say, Mike's old, that she knows that Mike, Mike, Mike is a little bit older than me, not by much, but, you know, my husband's way older than me. Go ahead. So anyway, there are this these little things. And it was like, you know, I don't remember. Oh, another time she was like, oh, I love game nights. And I'm like, how does she like.

Does she know I like game nights. Like like how does she pick these things out about that. Are things that you were doing. These are like game nights. I mean yeah I love game nights and I would have games with my friends and yes my my boyfriend at the time was a little bit older than me and yes, I was kind of health conscious or whatever. I don't know, she just thought these were the things to say and they almost struck me as odd.

And so anyway, this continued, though, and like little tiny things. But then I thought, oh, maybe she's just kind of socially awkward or I don't know, maybe she doesn't maybe she doesn't know how to. You know, I, I tossed it off as whatever. I was trying to be nice. She was also a single mom, so I felt my heart went out to her and I wanted to be nice and be around her.

Of course that. Yeah.

And so but then we decided then we started moving actually. So we were packing and moving to a new house in a new neighborhood and she offered to help us move.

She she came over all the time like she tried to come over, knock on the door or whatever, and we'd be too busy. And I was trying to like kind of withdraw from her because of the she would text so much and so often. And when I when I say that, I say it like it was socially inept type of thing, like, you know, when you texting someone and you don't they don't answer, you kind of like give them a break.

You don't text them more like she would do stuff like that. That was weird. That just made me think there's something wrong with this girl, but.

Before I really figured it out, I even invited her to my baby shower, so she shows up at my baby shower with gifts. Way too many gifts, like three or four gifts. I'm like, she's a single mom. Why? She's spending all her money on gifts for me, like three or four gifts, like more gifts than anyone else. It was weird. And then so we're packing. We're moving. We moved to our new house and she suddenly says, oh, guess what, I'm moving to?

And I'm looking for a place to move. And I think I want to move. I might consider moving to Palm Harbor, which is the town that we just moved to. And I'm just like, oh, my God, this is Mike and I. At this point, one day Mike and I are walking with the dog and I tell him the whole story from beginning to end. Like all the details, like every single text message, like this is what's happening.

Mike, do you think she's a plant? Do you think she's been sent in on me to become my friend? And Mike, you know, is like, well, maybe, maybe not. And so what if you can't do anything about it? Don't worry about it. That's Mike's normal.

Like, yeah, I know. Chill annoying. And I know this is a big reaction from Mike is so annoying. I know. Because you want to hear him go these motherfucker.

Well I like this. I need an answer. I need to know my lord, this confronting her. I get you on tape and he's like, yeah, yeah.

I like if she's a plant, I need to know. I need answers. I can't have a plant in my life. He's like, well, you know, what do you want to do anyway?

So, OK, so that was that. So we have the conversation.

So then she does move to our neighborhood. She moves, she moves to our neighborhood, she moves from one neighborhood to the next following us. Right. And I'm like, oh, my God, my God.

Do you think it was weird then? Oh, yes. Yeah. OK, then then Mike, did you have any reaction to it?

Yeah. At that point we're like, this is she's a plant like OK, this woman is a goddamn plant for sure. She's a single mom, supposedly doesn't have a job, doesn't have any money. She's moving. Also the house she moved into was more expensive, bigger, fancier swimming pool, everything like then our house and she was it to your house like two streets are three streets away.

Yeah. Yeah, three streets away.

Well, right. It was just that. Was she affording all of this again, Scientology tax exempt money at work. Exactly. So OK, so to carry on, eventually I decide I'm going to confront her. I am going to I've, I've stopped texting her. I've, I don't have anything to do with her and she continuously texts me.

Oh, here's one more thing. She I went out of town with Mike to L.A. on something he was doing, I don't know, talking to media people, doing media interviews, whatever.

Three hours after we get home, we arrive, I get a text from her like like, oh, Kristy and Mike just got home from L.A. We just saw them through our cameras, whatever cameras they're watching us on, because I'm sure there's cameras everywhere in the trees, in the bushes. They just arrived home from, you know, L.A., from the airport. Text Kristy, see if you can find out anything. I'm like she thinks I'm does she think I'm a moron?

Does she think, you know, at this point, I figured her out, but I had long as it's been how long it was this this going on? I think so. I met her, like I said, when I was around eight, seven, eight months pregnant. So that's like the end of the year. And then. What was a year, six months, six months, six, six months, about six months. So this had been going on for six months and they finally figure it out.

And you confronter. So what happens?

So eventually I text her and I say, I actually have the text. Still, I say to her, Heather, you ought to find out more about the organization that hired you. I sincerely recommend you do some research. Here's a good place to start, and I send her a link. And so the link I sent to her was a news article about a former P.I. that came out and spoke out about, you know, having the realization that he was working for a criminal organization and his name was Bert Lahey.

So I sent her that because I wanted her to see, look, here's a guy just like you realized he was doing something that was stupid and decided to do the right thing. Right. So read this. And so she says, not sure how to take the info. I think you think I'm someone I'm not sorry, but whoever you think I am or working for is wrong. It freaks me out a little. Sorry we couldn't be friends.

Wow. And so I said, did you look at the link? Yeah. And she said, yes. What is all that stuff? Scary stuff. And so then I respond.

If you looked at it, then you know what it is all about. It's not too late to redeem yourself unless you prefer taking money from a criminal organization that destroyed my family and many others. I can help you if you want it. And she says, sorry for whatever happened to your family, but I really don't know what you are talking about. I work for Pinellas County schools and started about three weeks ago. That's why your text freaked me out at first.

I'm not who or what you think I am anyway. I mean, there's a little bit more I don't know if you want me to keep reading them.

Yeah, good. Is there anything I mean, like saying no, but what what is there anything.

I think there's one more I just said. I guess you're not made of the same courage and integrity that bird lady is made of. If you change your mind, let me know. Have a nice life. I hope you sleep well at night. Well, so that was my confronting her and I didn't hear from her after that. Shortly after that, we drove past the house to see if she was still there and we could tell that nobody lived there anymore.

You know, once we know she moved out, once we blew her cover, she was gone. Fast forward four years later. And Steve Kinnon or Kinan, Steve Kinan, who you had on your podcast here, you told us what he mentioned in the podcast about that house and that his private investigators had lived there. And we went up and saw that.

And, you know, and then fast forward even later.

And she actually contacted me on Facebook through a private message and admitted to the entire thing. She admitted to it. She says, hi, Kristy, you don't have to write back.

Not sure you remember me, but I have to say I'm sorry to you and Mike for anything I have done, knowingly or not knowingly, to get information to the church cult about your beautiful family. I'm truly sorry. I'm doing well. And I'm proud to say I'm not part of that anymore. Heather Wow.

Wow. So what did you think when you saw that, Kristy? I mean, vindication. I was right to be like I mean, I had this suspicion for so long, but I was also it's like this hard place to be in because you're also like you don't want to be constantly suspect of every person you meet. You want to you want to you want to believe people are genuine and good and you want to make friends and get to know people and not have to worry that every person you meet is sent in on you from the Church of Scientology and my goodness, was being taken advantage of.

But at least I felt in the end, like the the indicators that I saw and the red flags that I saw were accurate. And that helped me to kind of build back up my my trust in my knowingness of like I was right.

Right. So did you ever write back to Heather McAdoo? I did, I answered her, I don't remember what I said, I don't have that right here. But she she responded with more information.

Had it so in a later and a later message, she said, Dwayne Powell was my boyfriend. So Dwayne Powell was a notorious private investigator who did a lot of work for Scientology. He and his son were arrested for having illegal weapons in the trunk of a car while they were surveilling Ron Miscavige, senior David Miscavige, his father.

Exactly. And that and that that story was told on 20/20. And we also had we also had him on our podcast and the aftermath. Right. You guys, you haven't seen that. You go ahead. And he wrote a book. Yeah.

Yes, exactly. One of his other girlfriends was Sierra Westermann. So he would have.

Right. So he would have these girlfriends and then he would turn them into private investigators. And so.

So what did she say? So she said that he was her boyfriend. Duane Powell was my boyfriend. Once I found out the truth about the whole situation and what was going on, I left. And I believe that's the time when you guys started catching on to everything. To one thing I do know now that back then I was not the only girlfriend girlfriend for Duane Powell. He had many just know that I'm truly sorry.

And if there's any information you want from me, I will give it. I just don't want to be on camera.

Família we ran into Heather McAdoo, Christine. I went to a Dave Matthews concert and as we were walking out, she was standing there as one of the ushers.

So we tossed and Christine went, That's Heather McAdoo. So we we fought our way back against the tide of leaving people and went back and said, Heather, hi, do you remember us? Yeah.

And she was very she was very sweet. I, I must say she was exceedingly apologetic and sorry.

And, you know, she she was very, very nice. Right, OK, then, Mike, after this incident happens, the doctors incident right where you are accosted or not.

Is that not right? Yeah, yeah.

I mean, there's a whole bunch of things that happened, Leah. I mean. Well, Mike, I think you should run through those very quickly. Yes. So then after that, did things stop after this, Kristy and Mike?

No, it just continues. So what about Mike? Take us take us through a few of these.

Well, we were like we had like the infamous doctors incident in the parking lot with my daughter and ex-wife and only Scientology executives and private investigators. And, you know, Christy got involved in that because, you know, she was in the doctor's office and she and the doctor came out and were being screamed at, too, by my ex-wife and my daughter, calling her a whore and various other things.

It was like the crazy the crazies let loose out of the asylum.

But, Mike, you had been you had been separated from your ex-wife when you left to see how many years at this point?

Three, three years. So you had never heard from your ex-wife since you had left?

It was really only when you started doing press and you were people were starting to listen that all of a sudden they were very interested in your whereabouts.

Yes. Yeah.

I mean, so interestedly that when. Christy and I went to England and to Ireland and to Australia, all of which related to either media or some form of appearance. They followed us all the way there. I mean, literally, they put people on the planes to follow us. When we arrived in Dublin, I went to Dublin to speak at Trinity College. We were met by a contingent of screaming people with with signs and shit outside. Leave our country.

We don't want you here, blah, blah, blah, blah. Bigot, religious bigots, bigot, blah, blah, blah.

When we were staying in England, they were picketing outside of the house we were staying in when we were in London.

They were following us to we went on a tour of the Tower of London and this guy followed us through the Tower of London. And in fact, the Beefeaters ended up costing him well, being a nuisance in the Tower of London. And when we went to Australia, they followed us to Australia. And actually Brian Seymour put a bunch of that in the episode that he did. I went there to be interviewed by him and he, you know, shows those pieces following us there.

And it you know, the freedom magazines, the websites, the going through your garbage, not allowing you to see your dying mother who was in an old age home.

You went to visit. They intercepted they moved your mother so you couldn't see her before she passed. This is how far they were going.

They're constantly harassing you. Yeah, constantly following you.

And like you said, Mike, with websites, with their Freedom magazine, what they're now on Twitter, they're constantly attacking you now and pretending that they're doing investigations about you and just putting in the idea that maybe there's something going on with you is enough.

Right? That's the purpose of this, Mike. Right. It's not that I can substantiate anything that they're saying.

It's just that to put the thought in someone's head that Christie is doing something that's favorable.

Right.

Like that's hurt my to hurt my business to her. What do you do, Christie? What do I tell people what you do?

I have a doula agency, so for people you know well, so you help women to to deliver their babies and you answer the mother.

That's what doula means, nurturing the mother. That's right. Yeah.

We help women who are we help them during labour. And then we also help them after they've had their baby during the postpartum phase, learning newborn care, helping them, you know, with whatever they need at that phase of life because it's a very vulnerable time.

Yes. So it's emotional support, physical support and education during labour and postpartum and so. And what's the name of your company?

Kristie, it's beautifully doodlers.

So cute.

So, listen, anybody doing business with Christie know that she's a beautiful and decent person and she is courageous. And if you get one of these calls from a pretended investigator, lawyer, private, I know that it's Scientology attempting to fair game this woman once again, as if she hasn't survived enough.

And, Kristie, I also want to add that your father, your father, who you love very much, passed away and he had been disconnected from you and Scientology, including your Scientology mother, and did not let you know that your father had passed, correct?

Yeah, I heard about it from a cousin, a distant cousin. Like a sect. Yeah. Anyway, my parents didn't my mother didn't tell me. My brother and sister didn't tell me. I heard about it from a cousin.

And so you were never able to say goodbye. And this is the kind of thing that Scientology engages in day in and day out. And let me tell you something. They're fucking proud of it. They are proud of it, it almost kills me to do a podcast. It almost killed me.

And you might do the aftermath to show the tears, to show the destruction, because they watch this and hear this and they are so proud of themselves for all of this destruction, all of this pain, all of the money that they waste, that they've been granted tax exemption.

Just so you know, again, people, organizations, churches are granted tax exempt status because that money that they're not paying in taxes they're doing, they're using to benefit the public.

They're servicing the public in some way. That would mean, you know, feeding the homeless and being empathetic and showing compassion towards those who need your help.

Well, they don't do any of those things. They engage in fair game with the money that they are saving from not paying taxes.

And then they use the resources that they don't pay taxes for to call on those of us who are doing the work. Mike, anything to add to that? No, Leah, you summed it up perfectly. Yeah, so Scientology. Go ahead. There you go.

And, you know, and I was just going to say and, you know, I hope that people listening to this particular episode will understand that this is the modus operandi of Scientology to seek to shut people up. Right. But. It hasn't worked. It has not shut us up. It will not shut us up, but. People should be concerned that any any organization. A can get away with this sort of stuff and B, can be subsidized by your tax dollars for doing so.

Correct.

And that's why we keep doing this. We we want this to end. We want these abuses to end. We want disconnection to end. We want the status of Scientology to end. We want fair gaming to end. Yes, we want people's lives to stop being destroyed. Christy, thank you so much for taking the time once again to tell your story and to continue to be brave enough to do so, because as people know, there is a price to pay for doing what you're doing.

So thank you, Christy.

And. Yes. Continue blessing, really.

And that's the thing you have to remember. We are all blessed. We're lucky. We're lucky to be able to have a platform. You're lucky that you found love.

You're lucky that you have two beautiful, healthy sons, that you have each other, that you have created a life for yourselves that most people can't. Well, that most people would admire, I should say not can't, right? I certainly admire you, too. I mean, I don't do I have to shit.

You do what your kids do while I you make me want to be a better parent. I mean, every time I go where you go to going to soccer, go to the go to that, I'm like, oh my God, you take your daughter to Paris.

That was awesome.

I feel like that's enough for like 20 years. You did some good stuff for her. Come on. I did. I did take it back. It wasn't just awesome.

That was amazing. And it wasn't there as I did. You're right, Jim. And I'm a great parent. You are kidding. I know what I think.

The the thing that I do that is anti Scientology is that I, I acknowledge her ups and downs in life and that I'm her champion. So much so that she has gone the other way and told me to stop talking to her teachers the way I do, stop sending the emails that I use and stop texting people like I have become my daughters. I fight for her because we were not nobody fought for us as children. Right.

And nobody fought for us even into adulthood. And so I think that's the one thing I am proud of, is that she knows that her mother will always take her son, that she's wrong.

Yep.

Yes, that's all right. Let's go next time. Thank you again, Kristy. Love you. Love you. And thank you all for listening. And we'll talk to you next week.

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