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Ninety calories, one gram, zero gram protein. Zero trans fat. Hello, everyone, welcome to another episode of Scientology Fair Game, the podcast. Hello, Mike Rinder. Hello, Leah Remini.


How are you? I'm good. Somebody tweeted me. Somebody tweeted me that I didn't say fuck enough and they were not drunk. They were still sober. So I'm failing at this and.


Oh, well, you can't please all the people all the time.


That's great advice. All right.


So we have another episode of answering our dedicated and loyal listeners questions today.


Yes, I really enjoy these. You know, I don't know if anybody else does. We'll find out.


Well, for Scientology attackers of the truth or Scientology people who like to attack, we're failing at this struggle.


Obviously, it's a dismal it's a dismal failure. Here's what I want to know. By the way, here's here's here's my measurement of success to our producers.


Are we doing better than Kirstie Alley? That was a nod. Yes. Then we're doing just fucking fine. Scientology.


Don't you worry about it. That's my measurement of success. Well, that's a pretty good measure when you set the boat, the bar really low, so, yeah, really low. All right.


So let's go over some of these. And by the way, I agree with you, Mike, these these are great because the answering questions gives a variety of answers, of tidbits of information about Scientology that I think, you know, is great. That's the more information, the better.


I agree. 100 percent or else. All right.


So let's begin. And this time we kind of got it together because, Mike, you put some of the names down of the people that.


Yes, these questions, which, Larry, I think it's pretty fancy stuff.


That's my administrative tech training. I love it. Scientology, thank you. All right, Margie M.. And this is probably a question for you, Mike.


Does David Miscavige declare income for his position? And if so, does he pay taxes?


He appears to be wealthy by spending lavishly on ataya, housing, travel, personal chefs, etc. while the Sea Org members live in rundown accommodations and receive 50 dollars a week.


If an org member gets hurt or sick, do they have to go to the county hospital pleading poverty or does Scientology help pay for medical treatment?


Let's take the first part. Does David Miscavige declare income for his position? So does he pay taxes? No doubt he does pay some taxes, but the real answer to this is the second sentence he appears to be wealthy by spending lavishly on the tire, housing, travel, personal chefs.


He doesn't spend anything on any of those things. You don't need to actually make money or have income if you rule an empire that will pay for things for you.


He doesn't pay for his own clothes to wear.


You know, he goes and gets handmade suits and shoes. Those are for the events that he attends. He doesn't pay for his own housing or his travel or his food. That's all provided if he says, I want a new car, he gets a new car. If he says rent a private jet to fly me to London this week, the jet gets rented.


So while he may have enough income to require him to pay some taxes, and you can be sure that if he is required to pay taxes, he is paying them personally because there is no way that his lawyers would allow that to slip by.


But the point is, it doesn't matter.


It doesn't matter how much money he is paid personally, he has control over billions of dollars and endless numbers of slaves. So, Mike, let's go over this, because you because you worked with David Miscavige intimately, the you sign for some of our viewers or listeners sorry, our listeners, what David Miscavige is lifestyle is like. It is like a a Saudi prince.


He has personal staff that look after him 24 hours a day, literally, who provide him everything that he could possibly need.


He doesn't have to pick up his own slippers. He doesn't have to walk his own dog. He has people for that.


He also has a personal chef who travels with him all over the world. He has a masseuse, chiropractor that travels with him. He has vehicles at his disposal whenever and wherever he wants them. I mean, he used to drive around in a hundred thousand dollar armed, not armed. Hundred thousand dollar bulletproof van with which was custom built to his specifications or actually to the specifications of John Bruce.


So he flies everywhere on private jets. He eats whatever he wants.


Like I said, he has his shoes made at John Laub and Company in London, the shoe makers to the royal family.


He has his shirts handmade. He has everything done for him. He lives a life that is difficult for those outside of that immediate world to understand. It's it's beyond the life of a regular movie star or someone. It's more like the president, you know, snap your fingers and it shall be done. If I want to go play golf today, there is a there is a person that sets up the golf course, arranges for everybody else to not be there.


A car is on hand. A driver is there. My personal security people and off they go to play golf. That's not license.


And none of this is illegal. Or somebody running with this illegal. No, that's that's the insanity of some of these rules and regulations. All right, let's take this other question here. If Sea Org members, meaning a person who.


Works for Scientology, not just a person who gets sick or hurt. Do they have to go to the county hospital pleading poverty or to Scientology help pay for medical treatment? Well, that's a combination of both, actually, oftentimes they go to the county hospital and get some sort of assistance.


And Scientology does not provide insurance coverage for Sea Org members. It is what they call self-insured, which which really means don't spend anything if you can avoid it. And if Sea Org member ends up in hospital, you know, they have a heart attack or something, then.


The bill comes in and usually there is no money to pay the bill, so someone from the Treasury Department of the organization that that person is in will try and negotiate a reduction in the bill or some form of payment, or if they can't get workman's comp or apply for some other form of government assistance, ultimately they will pay the bill if enough pressure is put on them.


So this is from Allissa. I think I have a follow up question to the answer regarding moving on from this or really any couple. Can you stomach the idea of any real religion once you moved on?


Are you open to searching through other belief systems to see if there is truth there? Or is a wall of protection put up around you to basically protect yourself from any outside influences? I hope that makes sense. I've always wondered if people who come out of a cult are left angry enough to not be open to other beliefs. I guess I could just answer you from my experience as well. My experience with other exes. I don't see a whole lot of ex Scientologist finding religion after Scientology.


I also don't find them the majority that I've experienced, being open to therapy because so much was was was taught to us that this is the enemy, psychiatry, psychology and any any form of mental health is considered bad. And I just I don't know once why once they leave Scientology, they are not open to the idea of getting real help for the first time when they were so dedicated to getting what they thought was help in Scientology. Like, do you have an answer for that?


I mean, I don't know. I don't know. I mean, why haven't you opened up my crocombe?


You haven't gone to therapy. I've got Julia and I don't know what else to analyze me, but this is true.


But why? But why do you why why is it just something that you just don't think you need? Or do you think it's a little bit of the Scientology teachings that that was forbidden is a myth?


No, because I I'm actually almost the opposite of that spectrum now. I promote that idea.


And no, I know you. Psychiatric drugs and all sorts of stuff. No, that's not my issue. I my issue is really twofold, I guess. Or why haven't I done a one? I sort of came out of the cocoon of Scientology with an idea in my own head ultimately that I don't need anybody else ever to tell me how to think or what to think or how to go about living life or anything. So you can say that that is a scar of being involved in a cult.


I'm not sure if it is. Maybe it is. If it is, I've got it.


But no, I know. I think it is my it is because I I've asked other people that and their answers was that like I have been told what to think on my life. I don't want another. You know, another person or group telling me how to think I just want to learn on my own, I want to find my way, so it's not just you. OK, go ahead.


And the other part and and the second part is I don't want to spend the money on it. Understood.


That makes sense. There you go. That's like that's like my simple dimple answer.


OK, so and then as far as the and thank you Mike for the answer. And then as far as religion, what what do you think the answer is?


There be somewhat similar. I mean, it's funny, though, Leah.


You know, you we talk about this and I do read books. Yeah. And I do, you know, observe.


And I'm fascinated talking to other people about their religious beliefs and what they get out of it and why and what they believe.


And that stuff all is it's not like I go I'm blocking all this out of my world because I don't want to hear anything about it.


I'm actually thirsty to hear about that stuff or read about it or study it.


But I don't I haven't found anything that I go, well, this makes more sense to me than my own perception of what life is about or how to conduct myself or what's moral or immoral or all those other things.


So I guess I'm you know, I'm not an atheist, but I guess I'm sort of an agnostic.


Right. What about you? Well, I, I, I, I believe in religion, I believe in having faith.


I believe if it's not hurting or oppressing others and it helps you to get through your day to have faith. Then I support it, but I I don't profess I don't want to be the person who preaches anything or who promotes anything, I did that my whole life and people ask me, you know, I was listen, I was baptized as a Catholic, as, you know, when I was a baby, as was my sister Nicole, my older sister, who's a Christian now.


And I baptized my daughter Catholic, because that's what I knew growing up. Now, what I knew growing up before Scientology was a very, very Italian Catholic grandmother.


Who went to church every day to light a candle for somebody or to pray on her rosary for somebody, and I you know, she would talk us into bed and do the cross on our foreheads and she would tell us that God is protecting us. And she made us feel comfort and safe. And that's what I knew of Catholicism growing up.


She didn't force it on us. Right. It was just like I got to stop in the church. I got to light a candle for this one. I got to light a candle for that one. I got to pray for this one. And it was a quick thing, it was never forced, you know, that you have to believe this or read this. And so I don't subscribe to that because we lived our lives that way. Right.


Scientology was forced on us. It's not a religion. So I should not talk about it in the same sentence. But I think for people to understand us a little bit better and why we don't want to be told how to think is because Scientology is forced on you. And and just to give some context. When you're studying Scientology, you are in a room being supervised while you're studying, if you sneeze, if you yawn, if you twitch, if you scratch your face, you are immediately pulled into another room.


And you are then questioned, what's the definition of a was the definition of for what's the definition of? There was a definition of here was a definition of and if you don't know the 25 definitions of the letter of the word A and the and and the derivation where the word came from and how it's being used in context, you have to reread the materials and then get checked out on what you are reading. And sometimes these things are 10, 20 pages long and you have to start from the beginning under that kind of duress, learning, under that kind of duress from childhood, from the moment you can read this creates a disorder to me to learning.


Right. Because even with Valerie, my assistant. Right, Valerie was in the Sea Org who worked for David Miscavige.


If I ask her to read aloud, she has heart palpitations, Mike, because this is what we were know.


Like you ask a Scientology to read a book, they're like, fuck you. I read three thousand mandatory books and had to look up every word. You're not allowed to pass a word you don't understand in Scientology. You can't kind of know a word. You have to know what exactly you have to know. Except there's no assimilating data in Scientology. It is. What does LRH say? There's no my understanding is it's none of that. It's no right.


What does LRH intend for you to understand? And that's the way Scientology is taught. It's not just reading a book when you feel like it, reading a verse when you feel like there's mandatory books you have to read and you're doing it under supervision. Anything you want to add to that, Mike? Not well, there's something I want to add to this, to the answer to this question, I don't want to ramble on forever, but yeah, I recall when we were in New York and we went into St.


Patrick's Cathedral.


Yes. You remember that day?


I forget what we were shooting. But we we went and you said, I want to go. And yes, I found that we were meeting with a lawyer, but I'll tell you why.


I made us go like we were meeting with lawyers for the first time who claim they wanted wanted to help us. They had so long for a year.


And I said, you know what, Mike, we're staying in this hotel. It just happened to be across the street from St. Patrick's.


And I thought, hmm. Let's go live, Kandal. Right, and we went in. And I said, isn't this crazy, Mike, nobody's here asking us for our name or money, they're not even asking us if we're Catholic. How crazy is this, right, and you were like, yes, yes, go ahead. And and it was I found it comforting. Yes. And the people there are very peaceful and calming.


And the same thing happens when I go to Willie Rice's church here in Clearwater, because I've been to I've been to Calvary Baptist a number of times for the Christmas celebration. Willie always invites me. I've been there for various events. And it is they are wonderful people. They're all incredibly kind. They're all, you know, obviously living a life that is a fulfilled life. It provides them some some comfort and fulfillment. And because you're around people like that, you feel or I feel at least that way myself.


And, you know, Willie doesn't put any pressure on and say you've got to quickly convert to Christianity. But he always encourages me, says, come, come join us for our celebrations.


Yes and yes. That is the part of religion that I find most valuable in the community and the shared sense of of calm that it brings.


Yes, and I agree. I think that, you know, I believe in God and I do believe that if it brings you comfort and it makes you a better person, I'm all for it.


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How a celebrity actors time managing, working on set, having a family and still dedicating hours and hours every day to this Scientology homework. Do they not have to do the same work that the rest of parishioners and Sea Org members do because of the status of these celebrities trying to recruit while on set?


OK, so the way that, you know, I had to do it was if I was working on King of Queens, I had to go in on weekends and any and any time that I was off work, I had to put in my two and a half hours minimum of Scientology study and or counseling.


So that's how I did it. Do they not have the same work that the rest of the. No, we had to say we all had to subscribe to schedules of two and a half hours a day minimum. And we had to get 12 and a half hours a week, it no matter how we did that minimum. Right now, that's what our members are expected to do, too.


They don't do it usually because they're always working and are too tired to be able to study, but not just by the pay off.


Right. That's that's a lot of that's supposed to be the payoff for signing your life away, Mike. And receiving 50 dollars a week is you're supposed to be getting your Scientology for free, you know, something that cost parishioners 400000 plus to do so.


You don't even it's free until you leave and then they give you a bill for you get a bill forces. Yeah, right. So now so so no, we we didn't have to work the hours, obviously, that Sea Org members did because Sea Org members worked from 8:00 in the morning till midnight if they were lucky.


But they usually work around the clock to exhaustion. So no, we didn't we didn't have the same pressures that sewer members had. However, we had to give our money over and our time. And yes, we were asked to recruit's while on set. And basically what what Scientology would tell us is like, this is what you have to do. You have to set a good example. You can't tell people that you have problems in your life. You can tell people, are you having marital problems?


You can't tell people you're having a problem raising your children. You're not allowed to tell, you know, your friends who are not Scientologists because that wasn't setting a good example. You were supposed to appear as though you are a perfect human being. So then when people said to you, how why are you so perfect? You'd say because of Scientology. And that would that that's how we were supposed to recruit people by being liars.


Good answer. Thank you. You want the next one? Sure.


Sherri, how does Scientology reconcile the contradictory stance on at once saying that they are here to save the world and convert everyone to Scientology, but then also derogatorily calling those not in the organization wogs? Why be condescending and rude to them? It's a great question, but my answer to this question is Scientologists don't see any contradiction in this.


They see. Everyone who is not a Scientologist is a wog. That's correct, that's the Scientology term for non Scientologists and correct. It is a derogatory term. But just like people in many religions who believe that they are the the ones who are being saved and everybody else is going to burn in hell or die in Armageddon or whatever, they look upon the rest of the the population as being. Somewhat worthy of of pity and sorrow, unless they've decided they're an enemy, at which point they should be destroyed, but eventually they'll come to their senses and join the ranks of the smart people in Scientology and they will graduate from being a wog.


And that that's what Scientology will accomplish. It will graduate them from being a wog into an enlightened Scientologist.


So you don't hear until, you know, fairly recently in in public, the word warg even being used in connection with Scientology.


Certainly Scientologists don't go out and tell people on the street, hey, you're a wog. When they're trying to attract them into Scientology, they're they're like sucking up to them. They're not calling them wogs. They call them wogs behind their backs.


Yeah, yeah, exactly. So they don't they don't reconcile anything. They don't need to write because to to the outside world, they're they're lying and they know it, but they they justify this lying by saying, well, I'm clearing the planet, I'm saving the world. And if they don't get you in, I mean, you can go from, hey, I'm bringing this person in. They're amazing. They want to take this course. They're paying this money to the person going, I don't want to do this.


This is a cult to them saying they can go fuck themselves. They're pieces of shit and they should die. I mean, they'll say the next 30 seconds, so. Right. But who are they? Who are they reconciling with? They don't answer to anybody. You got some of your quoter in there. I did. You should be quite drunk now, quite drunk. OK, Kelly Place, she's from the U.K. She came to visit Clearwater.


How do they feel about people taking photos outside? We parked and got out and someone came instantly and stood right next to our car and never said a word.


Right. How do they feel about it? They're enormously suspicious, nobody is ever coming and parking outside a Scientology organization and. Wanting to take a photo who isn't a menace in their view? Everybody is a menace. Everybody who is not them is a menace. And particularly in Clearwater, where, you know, David Miscavige might be in the building that you parked outside of. So they're all going to be on heightened, heightened alert.


Oh, my God. And by the way, if they're the ones taking the pictures, they're OK with it. If they're the ones doing the questioning, they're OK with it. If they're the ones going through your garbage, they're OK with it.


But if you dare a citizen. Of Clearwater have the balls and the audacity to do the same to Scientology or Scientologists, they literally think, who do you think you are? Do you know who we are? Right. That's exactly right, and that that gets you on the enemies list, correct? You become then someone to be investigated, find your buttons, figure out how to restrain you, get dismissed as an attacker. So, yeah, they don't like photos now.


Well, they don't. Yeah, they don't. They don't like anything that they didn't say could happen. Right. Or should happen. All right.


Next one, Eva is from Germany and she says ironically and she goes on about how Scientology is viewed in Germany, not as a religion.


It's it's watched over by the government and the court system. And she says, ironically, I've seen official U.S. government reports on the human rights situation, other countries where the U.S. takes Germany to task for oppressing a religious community and its members, because we won't let Scientology, which isn't a religious community in Germany, pursue their goals here.


Do such reports result from direct or indirect Scientology influence, or do U.S. authorities actually believe that anything that calls itself a religion should be able to do whatever it wants? This is a terrific question and one that I haven't heard anybody ask before. And the answer is yes. The act, the reports that the United States State Department puts out about human rights abuses around the world have been heavily influenced over the years by Scientology.


Tom Cruise and John Travolta was sent to the State Department to pitch and schmooze with officials in the State Department.


Presentations were made, lawyers were hired, who had formerly worked at the State Department, etc., etc. all to get them to agree that if Scientology is a religion in the United States, then it must be treated that way in other countries and that Germany was oppressing Scientologists in Germany.


That was at its height in the 90s. And that that campaign, you know, there were ads in The New York Times about comparing current day Germany to Nazi ism.


And it was the heyday of the the German government's activities with respect to Scientology. The ship of state, so to speak, turns very slowly.


So the reports that happened from the 90s where there was this big push to get those things included in the report, particularly in Germany, they just sort of carry over now year to year and they don't really pay any attention to it anymore.


And it just appears I think it's been watered down considerably, but I think it still remains in there because nobody from Scientology has gone back to the State Department and nobody from Scientology ever will go back to the State Department and say, look, all's well now in Germany, Scientology is being recognized as a religion.


So it just kind of carries over. I don't believe that the United States government, on its own volition, believes that Scientology should be treated any differently in Germany than it is, I believe that the entirety of that those statements that have been made have been due to. You know, lobbying and pushing and pressure brought to bear, which has resulted in those statements because it's no skin off their teeth to make a statement like that doesn't it doesn't create enough diplomatic problem that they care too much.




OK, Kenneth, big fan of the podcast.


I listen every week on the way to work. My question is how Scientology is handled and covid. I am sure members in the future or at the gold base are not following social distancing. So how are they handling this pandemic?


Well, Scientology, David Miscavige leader, chairman of the board, as he calls himself, put out a statement that this is basically a a hoax and that it's untrue. But Scientologists don't believe in sickness only where it where people get sick. The reason why people get sick is because they're connected to suppression people who are anti Scientology. So unless people are connected to their mother or father who have left Scientology or people who are speaking out against Scientology abuses, will, as Scientologists get sick.


And do they respect what science and warg law?


And while doctors know they reject it, they reject it. I mean, their medical doctor, their medical liaison, they call mellows in the sewer. These are usually 12 year old kids who hand out vitamins to everyone who's sick in the sewer, but they usually get punished for being sick. It would mean that you did something to cause you're being sick. And that means you looking on the Internet, you watching the show about Scientology. That's very similar to Scientology listening to this podcast.


These are reasons why you might get sick, right, Mike? Absolutely. I think I also would add that.


Why and I will put on our website the David Miscavige statement there that he put out calling this a planetary bull bait, which is, as Leia said, you know, a hoax in Scientology terms.


That's what planetary bull bait means, that it's just a way of trying to get a reaction out of you.


Yeah. And also, I will link to some of the articles that have been on my blog about sickness in Scientology.


But I wish to add also that Scientology for public appearance.


Purposes pretend that they are fully complying with all rules and regulations concerning the dealing with this pandemic, you see them making very public displays of everybody wearing masks and going around with the look. Looks like the Ghostbusters with these, you know, things to fumigate areas, et cetera, et cetera.


And they made great hay out of that for a while.


But you, whoever, Kenneth, are absolutely correct that when it comes to the Sea Org, they didn't change the the most the most important things that would have changed, which is how people sleep because you have six people living in a single room in the Sea Org and how they eat select members eat communally and that will not change.


They get transferred from the bus from where they are living their quarters to on a bus crammed. Oh, that's right.


I did some videos of that at the time when they were doing the weird. We're leading the world in how to handle covid-19.


Yes, there was a woman who took videos of the staff getting off the buses outside of the the superpower building in Clearwater, not wearing masks, all dragging their hands down the same little railing and just bunched up altogether.


So I'll I'll include those videos, too.


Yeah. And I should also add, like you said, Mike, the only thing that they do is for PR reasons. Right. They want to appear as though they are believing in the pandemic and they're taking action. But that's just for them to make themselves look good through their front group, the volunteer, the volunteer ministers group, and like Mike said, behind closed doors and even openly as you as you video them, they don't believe in it.


They don't write. OK, this from grace, out of curiosity, I've decided if I decided to read Dianetics, would I be converted? Because everything I've learned from you guys, it's not an issue. But should one feel afraid to read it just in case? Or should you read it just to get the whole picture or make your own mind up? Or if you read it, knowing all the abuses that Scientology does, it then just become a sci fi read?


Look, if you have any sort of education and you read Dianetics, you're going to just instinctively put it down because it is absolute nonsense and bullshit. However, if you're raised in Scientology and you have not had yet, you didn't have a chance to get an education. You've read this book and you believe that it's true.


Now in Dianetics, L. Ron Hubbard claims to be able to solve all of man's ills. He claims that he could through Dianetics, he can cure cancer. Alzheimer's to cataracts to I mean, all or and and added all psychosomatic illnesses, and he also mentions here and dayanim Dianetics, which Scientology continues to try to bury, but that a seven year old girl should not shudder at receiving a passionate kiss from an old man. And he puts it in terms of there is something wrong with the seven year old if she gets upset at that.


And so if you are into this, these theories, then Dianetics is for you. If you believe that children are not children and that they are little beings, they are old beings in little bodies and they've lived before and will live again, and that you have total control of your own body through Dianetics. Then then that then. Then it's for you.


And I would just add to this, Leah, I don't think that anybody who is aware of what is on the Internet about Scientology could possibly read anything written by L. Ron Hubbard with other than a very skeptical eye.


And when they have a skeptical but he never is going to hook. You know, you're right. And we tell people read Dianetics and go look for yourself, don't believe us. But but this book is a professed to be a science of the mind, a science. It's not it's it doesn't say, hey, these are my theories. They're not backed in any real science. I have no degree in anything having to do with mental health.


I've done I've done no research, but instead actually professes that he's somewhat of a scientist, that he has some accolades in the field of mental health, that he is the person who has found the way.


I mean, am I wrong, Mike?


So it's not sold as just a theory or this is what I'm thinking. It's sold as a science, right?


Yeah. Proven, researched and right. And isolated truths. Yes.


That have been hidden from mankind forever until the brilliant L. Ron Hubbard came along and discovered them.


Correct. All right. Why is David Miscavige able to intimidate and brutalize so many people? Is it mind control like Nexium leader Keith Renney, Keith Renewer? And also the other question to father of his, why has Nexium, why has Keith Raniere is he say his name Ranieri. Ranieri, how come he received one hundred years in prison and twenty and not David Miscavige?


So, Mike, let's go back. Why is this Miscavige able to intimidate and brutalize so many people? And the answer is the second sentence, is it mind control like Nexium leader Keith Ranieri? Yes, absolutely.


And the and the incredible value of the vowel and now seduced on stars is that it shows in such excruciating detail how that sort of mind control and manipulation occurs.


And, you know, it's hard for someone who has not experienced it to understand.


It's not that David Miscavige himself, David Miscavige is not like Keith Ranieri in that he sort of invented all this David Miscavige.


That was that was the work of L. Ron Hubbard. David Miscavige simply uses and applies what L. Ron Hubbard wrote about how you control and brainwash people to his advantage.


So in Scientology, you believe that if something bad happens to you, whether it's someone punching you in the face or raping you, it is because you did something of a similar nature yourself. And that if you can look within yourself and discover that you will no longer be the adverse effect of whatever it is that happened to you.


So when you're a good Scientologist, a good Sea Org member and David Miscavige punches you in the face, your instant reaction is not I'm going to punch him back. Your instant reaction is I have to look inside myself to find out what I did that caused this to happen to me.


Yes. And, you know, it's a slightly different twist.


When I've watched the the Nexium stuff, Keith Ranieri managed to convince people that it was for their own good, that they learned to be strong.


And the idea of learning to be strong and and suffering through things, proving and and growing your personality, including being branded and raped and whatever, that he convinced people that that was good for them is just the same as being in Scientology and being convinced that it's good for you to mortgage your house to be hit in the face, to undergo hours of interrogation on a lie detector in a locked room and not be able to get out.


All of those things are perfectly acceptable to Scientologists because they're brainwashed to believe that that's good for them, just like the women that we have seen on those TV shows were brainwashed to believe that what was happening to them, those horrendous physical and mental abuses, were if for their own benefit.


I mean, it took India Oxenberg, you know, like even after the guy was arrested, she still didn't buy it. So that is exactly the same in.


In concept and execution, although not in the detail, it seems like there is some and, you know, the the the experts that are that are interviewed in seduced do a pretty good job of explaining all of this and how this comes about and that it's not just limited to Keith Ranieri.


And, you know, Scientology even got a little mention in Episode four of the last one.


So it it it's the same thing.


What's different about why Keith Ranieri is spending one hundred and twenty years in jail and David Miscavige is not is two things.


Biggest Keith Ranieri never made his operation into a religion, so he does not have and has not had the protection of being able to say. This is all part of my religious belief and no court, no government can intrude into that. And funny, when you hear the lawyers for Keith Ranieri talking in Seduced about what their position is with respect to all this. Oh, this was all free will. These were this was all being done for the for their benefit.


All these women walked in and they knew what they were getting into.


It is exactly the same arguments that Scientology has made and was able to carry on the basis that you can't tell us that we can't do this as a religion. And the second thing is. The evidence that was turned over to the FBI by Injia Oxenberg of the recordings of Keith Ranieri talking about how he wanted to brand these women with their initials and et cetera, et cetera, made the case for them.


Right. And if we had recordings of David Miscavige doing what he does routinely and physically assaulting people and saying that they should be locked up, et cetera, et cetera, then it would make it a lot easier for law enforcement to address the issue and possibly proceed with prosecution.


Because as you and I know, Leha, the first thing that happens in Scientology is the same thing that happened in Nexium.


They went around and got a whole bunch of people to say and testify, oh, he's a wonderful guy.


He's old, never heard this.


But here's the good news about Scientology. They write everything down. Yes, and we have to hold government agencies and law enforcement, if you ever wanted to see the thousands of crimes, allegedly. Committed by Scientologists that Scientology knows about, you would simply need to raid Scientology like you successfully did in 1977. So you should follow your successful action and everything is there for you to see, but.


In the real world, they say, well, what evidence do you have that would allow us to obtain? The necessary papers that we need to get approved to conduct a raid. Well, thousands of people who have spoken before and the affidavits mean, other than that, I don't read sarcastic.


Yeah, I know, I know. And, you know, this is a topic that will come up until.


The end of crime only people keep until there is a prosecution, whichever comes first, like we're airing on Netflix, more and more eyes are on Scientology, the aftermath, because it is now on Netflix. Right? Right. People watch the show.


We're watching it again on Netflix.


But what I'm getting over and over again on Twitter, why is this being allowed?


And I you know, do you remember I'm not sure if you've even watched it yet, Leah, but insidious, the the district attorney I mean, the state's attorney for the Eastern District of New York who prosecuted the case, said in their. When the article came out in The New York Times, it really made us stop and think about what we needed to be doing.


The pressure and I have said this a million times, pressure from the media pressure on these law enforcement agencies is what ultimately gets them to act.


And she says it right in the show. That's what that's what got us going. And then she says and what really resulted in the prosecution and us being able to move forward was these documents the India Oxenberg happened to get so. We just have to keep going, we just have to and every person that listens to this, every person that watches the show contact your local law enforcement agencies, contact your elected representatives, write to the media, call up your congressmen, do whatever you can to make some noise about it.


Because and the other thing that that she also attributed this to was the Metoo movement and that that brought public attention to this issue. So we need a mea culpa movement. Right. Yes, we do need a cult movement, honestly, because it is us doing it. It is the group before us doing it. Our people I mean, I don't know of many people who are writing about it in the press other than Tony Ortega and Yashar and Yashar Ali.


And, you know, we don't have The New York Times helping us out. The L.A. Times and Tracy at the Tampa Bay Times. And before that was was Tim Tobin and Tom Tobin and Joe. Yes. Thank you. At The Tampa Bay Times.


So, people, we are doing as much as we can to continue to get the word out. But like Mike said, we need your help. You you guys are amazing in that you're supporting us and Mike's right. How can you help is by making these calls. You have your own circle of influence no matter who you are. And you can help us. We want your help.


We need your help because we keep push. We keep we keep pushing this this rock up the mountain. And we've made amazing strides in in that people used to think it was just a crazy, innocuous little calls while we changed that.


We've changed that idea and we have helped people to get out and we tell people not to get in. And so we've done our job. We continue to do this job because we believe the ultimate is people going to prison. Is their tax exemption being ripped from them because they don't deserve it? They got it. They got their tax exemption by fair gaming IRS agents. The very reason they shouldn't have received it, they received it by doing things that they shouldn't be doing with tax exempt money.


Yep. You know, somebody at the IRS give him a call.


Do you really worry that you will go back into Scientology to stop? I can't even continuing fair game. You are both receiving like Marty Rathbun. If no.


If if they offered me. Any amount of money. The answer would be no. Hundred million, maybe that OK, I would I would I would give you up at a fucking second, Mike. You can go fuck yourselves. I can go fuck themselves over can't everything.


A hundred billion. That's your price. Yeah. OK, there you go.


Scientology. Now, you know, Leah Remini is available for a hundred million dollars. It's only like, you know, three percent of your net worth. So you could probably afford it.


It might be worth it all. All wish nothing or nothing. I'll go for one hundred million to OK. You know they're going to use this as the headline.


Oh I know, I know. They'll love it. Yeah. No. OK, Peggy, so interested in why Scientology would want their members to vote for Donald Trump, super interesting.


Well, I think for Scientology, the reason why is because they have influenced the Trump administration and infiltrated the Trump administration with a woman named Joy Villa.


She was doing this purposely to do the work for Scientology to gain allies in the White House to further Scientology's agenda. And the fact that he bought it and the administration bought it was really saddening to her. I mean, it was really heartbreaking because, you know, this is a guy who talks a big game. You know, he's against the bullies and he's going to say whatever the fuck he wants to say, no matter who it hurts, no matter who he destroys.


And it was and the what's her name who contacted me, Mike, from the White House. She was she worked in the White House, not in the not in the administration. Right, right, right. Well, you know what?


You could actually go Scientology and Donald Trump. Yeah, because. So that Ortega's out about this.


Yeah. Yeah, you're right. And so, anyway, she she contacted me via Twitter and said, you know, Mr. Trump has said that he doesn't believe that Scientology deserves their tax exemption and that I mean, this was. But I was literally fell to my knees, looking up at the sky, going, thank you, God, finally, finally, somebody is going to help us. And she ended up being a plant and she had asked me to send her all that I had on you, on, you know, what we could do, what we could representa to the IRS, to the criminal investigations department of the of the IRS.


And I put together a whole packet and I was like, OK, this is going to be done now. And it turned out that she was some bullshit. And I don't know that Donald Trump ever said that. I think it was just a ploy for her and Scientology to get the information that that we had, which, you know, it's so secret. They know exactly what they're doing.


She just wasn't like it was secret information and then she just disappeared.


This woman just disappeared after I had written her and other news organizations try to get hold of her to ask her for a statement, and she just disappeared and never heard from her again.


So that's why Scientology backs him, because he has tweeted about this Joy Villa. He has accepted her. And anybody who strokes his ego is OK with him. And that's why Scientologists back him.


Well, he's also there's a line of which Scientologists judge who they who they like and dislike.


There's a thing called an emotional tone.


Scale and anger on the tone scale to Scientologists is a is a is a wanted emotion. And if you're in anger or above this scale, you're good with Scientology. Like, that's a great answer, Leah.


I would answer it slightly differently. Sure.


And I would answer it less to to anger the supporters of Donald Trump less, because I don't believe that the real issue with Scientology supporting Donald Trump is anything other than the one.


The Scientologists tend to be one issue voters.


They vote for people who are on the side of limiting psychiatric influence in society. Right.


So if the Democrats favor a health care system, which includes funding of psychiatric care, they oppose it and thus they will support the person who is on the other side of that equation and that becomes the Republican candidate. Gotcha. And it's it's almost as simple as that.


Leah, you know this to be true. If you say to a Scientologist politician, a supports government funding of psychiatric care, that's it then. You're right. I've been told when I was in, I was told this person is backing this or this person is backing that, you know, so you vote this way, right?


I went on the Citizen's Commission on Human Rights has made a huge deal.


This is Scientology's front group about, quote, psychiatric abuses, has made a huge deal about how the psych's are getting funded by the government. The sites are getting funded by the government. Your children, they're being they're being having psychiatrists, you know, and Scientology.


And yet Scientology is always trying to get government money to endorse and to endorse their front groups.


That's why I said, yeah, yeah, they want the money. Absolutely. Yes.


But this is really the why Scientologists tend to support Republican candidates in politics. It's only that I mean, there is another also kind of significant thing. One of the politicians that Scientology has sought to influence and has had some success is the former attorney general of the state of Florida, Pam Bondi. Pam Bondi has been to the Fort Harrison.


She's been photographed in events holding hands with the buddies who've done fundraising for her. Scientology successfully managed to get her to appear on their behalf at a number of events. You know what she is now? She's the attorney standing with Rudy Giuliani in the outs and Corey Lewandowski outside the the voting offices saying, I'm bringing the lawsuits on behalf of Donald Trump.


She's part of the administration's team to sue over the results of the election. So that's another reason for Scientologists to be supportive of Donald Trump.


On the other side of the political aisle here, you have someone like Karen Bass who creates a big problem for Scientology because they want to support her because she manages to get persuaded to show up to a Scientology event.


I can't even remember which, by the way, was it wasn't even in her district, by the way, what she what she claimed and this is the issue like.


Scientologists who are in her district will vote for her on the basis that she showed up and Scientology sought to defend Scientology as being not being an abusive cult.




So it you know, if there isn't something the OK, and she's a Democrat and she's a Democrat is what if there isn't something that overrides the fundamental meaning of we don't want psychiatry to be funded by the government. And that's that's the default position.


And if there's someone like Karen Bass who will show up to an event and then speak on behalf of Scientology, all Scientologists will absolutely support her.




And the same from Heather to ask. Please talk about Kirstie Alley, sudden interest in politics. Same answer applies if it if it if it supports Scientology, celebrity, Scientologist and such and Scientologists will support it doesn't matter. Right. If they're they're good people, what their politics are, all they care about is how are you helping Scientology? If you are pro Scientology, then Scientologists are for them.


Yeah. The biggest the biggest fan of Scientology that I recall and that Scientology lauded endlessly was former Sheriff Lee Baca. Yes. Good one.


Yes, he was the man. He showed up to all the Scientology events. Every Scientologist supported him. They held fundraising things for him. He was on the magazines. He was in their events. He was in and out of that era. And now he's in jail, correct.


Where he belongs. Right. All right. Listen, Mike, we have run out of time.


We have pages and pages of questions still here to answer. And it's OK if people want to keep sending them to and keep track of, you know.


I say, you know, we should do is maybe answer a few of these questions within our podcast. You know, I mean, when we have guests, you know, we should still we should still maybe leave time so that we don't have to do. Whole hours of this all the time, because we are long winded, but that's not our fault, Scientology made us this way, forced us. But also, when you are unraveling bullshit, it takes a minute.


Right, exactly. That's a better answer. Yeah. Yeah.


Anyway, guys, we'll answer we'll get some more of these questions of our producers will so kindly give us some time in in our next podcast where we could kind of pepper in some of these questions and and answer.


Yeah, that's a great idea, guys.


Again, thank you so much for your support of this podcast and for watching our show on Netflix. I mean, it just it's just been amazing, your responses and we so appreciate it. And any help you can give us, we welcome it.


So go ahead, Mikey.


Yes, we do, and we will see you or we will be here again, listened to unless those hundred million dollar checks come in.


That's right, Mike. We will give you guys up so frickin quickly if Scientology is willing to pay us each.


One hundred million dollars, I think we should actually make it one hundred and twenty five, so it's even quarter of a bill. OK, OK, so that's your price now, Mikey.


Now it's one that's gone up and now it's cut off quite a bit. They better take me up.


Otherwise it's going to go up next week anyway. You guys, thank you again until next time by.