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Well, welcome, welcome, everyone, to another episode of Scientology Fair Game, Little Mickey. Hi, Lelay. Today, we have a very special guest with us.

I know we say that every time, every every week we say that, but they're all special.

They are like when people ask me, like, what's your favorite episode of King of Queens? I'm like, there was something special in every episode.

It's like, I can't just pick one. They're all, you're right. There's just something special in every one of our guests.

And today is no different. We have a woman named Stephanie Hutchinson who's with us today. Hello, Stephanie. Hello, Leah.

Stephanie. You all are honoring me, I'm so I'm so proud to be on your show. Thank you so much. Well, we're happy to have you, Stephanie. Let's go through why don't we tell people how we know you, OK? Well, why don't you tell people how we know each other? Well, I I guess I just started and forced my way into your lives with my writing, I had watched the show Scientology in the aftermath and I the things that I saw upset me a great deal.

And it made me feel like I needed to do something. And I started I found my Grinder's blog, which is amazing, and I started making comments on his his articles, and through that someone had reached out to me and asked me if I had ever thought of writing something. And that kind of put a seed in my mind. Right. And so I just started. I just I guess I just took the bull by the horns and I started writing and I didn't know a thing about what I was writing about at the beginning.

And I look back now and I just close my eyes and go, what in the world?

Right. Yeah, right. So just to give a little bit more context, Stephanie, we don't know you. Like you said, we don't we don't have any history with you. You have never been a Scientologist, never interested in Scientology. You watched the king of Queens, you and then you started watching the aftermath. Like you said, you read my book.

And like most people, you thought, oh, this is just some. You didn't even know I was in Scientology.

What I was I didn't know. Yeah. You know, growing up. I knew that there was a there was a thing out there called Scientology, and the most that I knew about it was that it was started by some wacky science fiction. Writer and on that, I didn't know anything else, I honestly thought that it was a Hollywood based thing and that it was just part of that whole wacky, weird Hollywood scene. And that was it. Right.

And when you when he started in the news that you, Leo, had been, you know, that you had left, I was like, wow. So she left this crazy thing right? And at that time when it was all hitting the news, I'm not I don't usually follow all of that, you know, Hollywood entertainment stuff. So I just talked. OK, so she left. Good for her. But then you wrote the book and I read Troublemaker and I was like, OK, wait a minute.

This is a little bit more than what I was thinking, right, and. I kind of just put it in my head that, OK, this is something serious, but then it wasn't until I watched the aftermath. I started seeing the first couple of episodes and I was like, OK, wait a minute, this is way more than what I thought, right?

Because you just thought, like most people, you just thought this was just some crazy, innocuous, you know, kind of little cult that was, you know, like you said, it was just like really for Hollywood types. And it really wasn't affecting people's lives in a real way. You didn't really think it was a dangerous, powerful cult.

Yeah, just it just makes you jump on couches, right. And act and act a little wacky. You know what?

But that was but that's the kind of thing that's now I know that that's what I was hoping to be able to say to people like me who don't know anything about Scientology. What we you know, that we call them us never ends. That's almost an advantage for Scientology, because as long as the majority of us out here think, oh, they're just as harmless, crazy thing and ignore them, it's easier for Scientology to perpetrate these abuses and to, you know, to do the sneaky, snarky things.

I had no idea Scientology had so many front groups and I had no idea that, you know, there was a Sea Org and which is not, by the way, a religious organization. But anyway, you know, I just I hadn't I I knew nothing but absolutely nothing. And when I finally found this niche or whatever you want to call it, it was because I really felt like this is a weak point for us as log's. If you want to call, you know, which is what Scientology calls us, you know, if I could get more people.

To understand the reality that it's not this benign humanitarian organization and Mike Rinder is not crazy and Leah Remini is not lying, you know, and all the other people, the former members, you all already understand what it is. You know, it's dangerous. You know, it's crazy. But we all just are like, no, OK. And there is, I think, an element of the apostate idea. Right. You know, you all left, OK, you know, for us never ends.

Not understanding what Scientology is all about. We can look at your stories and think, OK, but how much of this is sour grapes or. Right. We really wanted people to understand that this is not sour grapes. This is abuse and it's real.

How did you who did you contact first? How did we how did we get to know you? I think well, I know that originally, I know I think I reached out to Mike Rinder after I had read his some of his blog posts and I just I guess I just felt like I wanted you know, I wanted to tell him, you know, none of this was your fault. And, you know, I just wanted, I guess, to be some sort of a support to not everybody out here, you know, thinks he's crazy.

I think that's what I did. I think I reached out to and he and Mike, you were so nice. You responded. And I sat there and looked at the computers like Mike Rinder answered me. Yeah. You know, that made my whole day. I had reached out to a couple of people from the show just to be supportive and say, you know, give give a voice to, you know. I don't know, as a support, you know, none of this was their fault and all of that, but between the two of you, I think I reached out to Mike.

And then I once Robert Holmblad, if I'm allowed to say you're free, of course. OK, well, Robert was wonderfully kind enough to reach out to me after I had written a particular comment on your blog, Mike, and he said, Did you ever think about writing an article comparing and contrasting Scientology with real religions? And from that we we worked on something, but things just didn't work out. And but it was because of his kindness and his support.

He is an amazing man. And I was outraged when I saw his episode on the aftermath, you know, because I knew at least enough about I've never met him, but I just knew because this strange person reached out with such kindness to me. You know, I just anybody that could treat that man like that, I was just outraged. But it was because of his support that I started considering. Maybe I could do a blog. And then, of course, I saw Mary Poppins episode, and that just broke my heart so bad, I wanted to climb through the TV and just hug her and hold her and say, you know, this pain is not right.

And that's when I kind of started writing my own blog. And I think that from there, once or twice, I think both you, Mike and Leah commented on Twitter. Yes. After I started my Twitter account. And I think things just went from there. But no, I've never met you and either one of you. I guess maybe I should put a disclaimer in here. I'm here of my free will and I've not been invited to participate.

Oh, Stephanie, by the way, by the way, so everybody knows Stephanie's blog is called Al as Lynn.

It was Ashland's blog. I just recently changed it to confront and shatter. Oh, you did? Because it's easier to say, oh, that's still the same.

I was going to ask you, why did you call it that as Lynn's blog?

Because I couldn't figure out whether there was some significance to it or what. No, it was insane back.

Like I said, I look back when I started this whole thing and I cringe, I was like, what in the world was I thinking? It was just I just wanted to start a blog, you know, and I didn't I'm not good with naming things. If you look at my blog, all the titles of my articles are like, so stupid, because I cannot I cannot put a title. I cannot put a title on anything. And actually, I have a novel that I've been working on.

And Ashlynn was a character in my novel. So I was just I just plucked it out of the air. And it's like the same thing for my Twitter account. I kind of wish I hadn't entitled it Odeo and Veritas, but do you mean vengeance and love? I say and I'm not trying to seek revenge. On the other hand, just this is a form of a vengeance. So maybe it's not so bad. But I just recently changed it to confront and shatter because it's much easier to say and it's more appropriate, I think.

Yes.

I'll include a link on our blog, our website for the for the podcast and my blog when this episode is so everybody can find out, because honestly, you do such an amazing job on your blog, whether it's got an oddball name or not, your writing is fabulous and the content that you have is so well put together.

It is. It is a work of art. And I thank you, Mike. I know that a lot of what you have done, it's sort of two things, primarily that I see you doing. One, and I want to thank you publicly is constantly defending me with the attacks and spills that Scientology, and especially my daughter and ex-wife put out about me. And you have done an amazing job of taking those things apart with documents. And then you have done something that I have I have often wished I had the time to do as well as you have done, which is to debunk a lot of the claims that Scientology makes about this support.

And you do it in a brilliant way of contacting the people who Scientology touts as being the supporters and asking them if this is really the case and we really are. And I really want to talk to you about some of these, because some of them are fascinating. You know, the Beirut Red Cross to the coffee company, to the this to the that they've been amazing.

Well, you know, I've noticed lately that it's getting harder to to find US based photographs and names from the volunteer ministers. I don't know. I want to think that it might have something to do with my blog. It's more overseas. And I do contact people that are mentioned overseas, but I'm starting and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that there may be a different relationship between Scientology and like, for example, South Africa, I think.

I think that there is more of a desire to not shake the beast over there, people are not as willing to step up and say, no, Scientology didn't do such and such when I reach out overseas. Well, yeah, I think that I think that depends which country you're dealing with, Stephanie, you know, if if if they ever put an endorsement from anyone in Germany or France, you won't have any problem getting a response from them.

But South Africa or Taiwan or some of these other places, they they don't have the exposure of their abuses like in the United States and Europe. And that that has you know, we've just got to keep working on exposing the abuses and eventually that will happen there, too. But. All right.

I think that that's what you probably running into.

I think so, too. Contact World is a technology and media company dedicated to improving public health because we're fed up with the way our country has ignored public health for so long.

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Oh. Do you ever wish you could get more from your podcasts?

Well, you can, with BuzzFeed Daily hosted by me, Casey Rock'em and me Zaphod on our show, we've got more good news and more pop culture, more Meems and more celebrity to more of everything that's blowing up your timeline and trending on the Internet every weekday evening, we're giving you more of what you need to enjoy your day, because what's life, if it is it to be enjoyed?

Listen to BuzzFeed Daily on the radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Now, before we get to this, I want to I want to just read something. This is from you, Stephanie. I just just. No, no, this is just a little bit of history. And there's there's a reason why I'm doing this.

And hopefully it'll be worth everybody's while. But this is what you wrote. You wrote that you are a fan of mine from King of Queens, but that's really all you knew about me. And you didn't even know that I was part of Scientology. After all the publicity surrounding leaving Scientology, I was a troublemaker. And that was the first hint to me that there was something not right about what I thought was just a harmless, weird cult. Watching the aftermath, I got angry.

The episode featuring Lauren Haggis prompted me to reach out to her. I've lost two family members to suicide and I just wanted to offer some some sort of comfort. Her pain was so evident and I felt totally helpless, but wanted to help somehow. She was so kind and gracious in her response. But I felt that my reaching out to her was so useless. Mary Cause episode absolutely broke my heart to pieces. The show was a defining moment for me.

I was watching a mugging on the street and had a choice of either walking on by or stopping to help. The problem was that I didn't know how to help. I discovered your blog and started leaving comments from there for Robert on blog. And then he contacted you and and asked you to consider writing.

It ended up not happening, but he opened the door for me to finally realize that maybe I could do something to help after all. And that's when you started your blog.

Before I could actually begin, I discovered the domestic violence allegations against Mike. I didn't know. You didn't know Mike. You wrote I didn't know you from the man in the moon. And honestly, my first thought was, whoa, this is really bad. I'm not going and get get involved with anyone who does this to any woman. So I started looking into the story.

I got the police report from the Pinellas County and really started looking at the documents. Tarran, Mike's daughter posted, spent a huge amount of time reading Hubbard's books and policies. And I realized the biggest thing Church of Scientology had going for them is that the fact that while your former members know exactly what Scientology is all about, us never ends tend to brush them off like I did just as some wacky cult. This gives them the advantage I felt. That's the best thing I could do was to inform never ins the truth about the Church of Scientology.

And that's why I tried to prove prove it when they lie about anything. No benign humanitarian church does. The thing Scientology does, so you wrote this to Mike. Now, the reason why I read it is because you are just a woman. That we have never had any contact with, right, but as I read in your in your your quick story here, you were just a person who saw the show and decided to look into it yourself.

You had some ideas about Mike, you had some ideas about the Church of Scientology, but you decided, let me just look for myself. I did. Then you thought, what can I do about this? Now we're asked this every day. What can we do? What can we do? And we answer those questions. Contact the IRS, contact your council men and women, contact, ask for an investigation to go, you know, for it to go into Scientology's tax exemption.

We tell people, you know, you all have your your way of doing anything you can.

Then it can affect some change.

You. Well, this is what Stephanie Hutchinson decided to do on her own.

She decided to start this blog and she decided, you know, what I could do is I could look at like you said, you didn't know anything about the many of various front groups of Scientology claiming to be humanitarian efforts, which they are not just a PR activity for Scientology. You found out about it on your own and you decided, here's something that I can do. I can start contacting these people who support Scientology or I can start challenging what Scientology is putting out there on my own just as a person.

So the reason why I read that and the reason why I'm saying this is because. Some people feel helpless to do things to affect change. But it started it just starts with an idea of what can you do? You didn't need anybody's approval. You didn't call me and Mike, you didn't email us or write. Can I do this? Should I do this? Is this something worthwhile? No.

You know, I want to tell you the truth. I'm going to tell you the honest truth. Please do. I heard when I heard about Terrones. Yes. Claims. I actually I mean, I didn't know what to think, but I actually started thinking, if this is true and you and you have to admit that unless somebody. Says something about it. It's pretty convincing, sure show against Mike is is pretty convincing, he's got photographs, she's reading off of supposed paramedics.

Yeah.

I mean, so you have to admit that if somebody does not know anything, it's pretty it's pretty convincing. And I had actually thought, if this is true, this people need to know, you know, that the speaker and it's supposed to be on TV. I was falling for it. I was going to actually write something just on Twitter or on my Facebook page, you know, saying, hey, look, you know, this Mike Rinder is not what he appears.

That's why I wanted to know what the hell this was about. I mean, I'm going to I'm not going to lie about, you know, the things, you know, I was thinking at the time, of course, illustrates exactly what Scientology does.

And that's why I felt like and I still feel that it is absolutely crucial for never ends to understand. The lengths that Scientology will go to, yes, to attempt to discredit someone, yes, and then you found out and I've said this before, Scientology aside, it is not right for anybody to accuse people, anyone of such heinous crimes.

Oh, great. There's enough of that going on in the world. That's true. And women need to have this as a safe. Thing that they're allowed to come out, speak about it without having other people using it as weapons against men just because they're angry at them or women.

Now, Stephanie, you went so far as to call. The police department to get a copy of the police report, right, to investigate. I didn't realize at the time I'm learning, yes, but I didn't realize at the time that there is oh, there was a lot of stuff already available online. And so I filed a Freedom of Information Act request with Pinellas County and received a copy of the police report myself. I spend a lot of time when I'm not writing the blogs either.

Reading God Help Me Hubbard's stuff. And. Try reading the policy letters, the bulletins, the bullshit stuff, you know, all that crap. Anything I can get my hands on. But when I'm not doing that, I'm writing to people. Right. And I reached out to Dr. Bill and I said, look, you took an oath to do no harm. And this is. This man is innocent, his family has to be confronted with this, he has a child that this is going to follow.

You know, his father, I said, this is harm. And you you took an oath. You need to speak up as a child. I told him she's already gone past the hippo laws because Terryn has released this stuff herself. And they never responded to me now, is he a Scientologist might do you know this Dr. Bell? Who is this guy?

No, he's just not my you're able to find any connection to him as a Scientologist. But here, here's what happens, Leah and Stephanie.

So you understand. If to if Kathy, five years after that incident in the parking lot, that they make such a big deal about Kathy and myself doing heavy metal work at gold and tore the ligaments in her shoulder while she was lifting boulders and went to a doctor, she would tell the doctor that she suffered this injury from her husband tearing her arm. If that was something that they thought they could get away with or think they could get away with, so it's not necessarily true that Dr.

Bell is a Scientologist or that he deliberately is telling untruths. It could be simply that he is believing what they are telling him so that he then makes a statement, which he thinks is an accurate and somewhat innocent statement.

And they take that just like they do everything else and use it as, quote, proof that this is exactly what happened. And I suspect that that may be the case with him, though. I don't know.

Yeah, I've I've actually written to him twice. Yeah. And the second time I even said, look, I if I understand if you are concerned about epilogues, can you just at least confirm or deny that this letter came from you?

Right. He's not he never even responded to me for that, right, but I understand what you're but I understand what you're saying. Yes. A second level God by another by a physical therapist. And I have reached out to that person as well. And they've never responded either. Right.

So now and just to be clear, I just want to because I think what you said was very important, Mike, is. What Scientology is so. Creative with the truth. But they will take something like that. They will go to a doctor, let's say Kathy or any Scientologist will say, I pulled my arm, this happened. And the and they could say on camera, we would like you to say what?

What happened here or what is she suffering from? And the doctor made a statement and they edited that together with their narrative that had happened because of an incident with you, which it didn't exactly.

So he may or may not have known. However, I have a question for you, Mike, is if they did say if your ex-wife, Kathy, did say this happened from a violent altercation with my ex-husband, wouldn't he have to report that? I doubt it. I don't know I don't really know the look on that so well, Will will include a copy of his letter on the blog and everybody will be able to see it.

And they if they want to write to him, they can.

OK. I think I found the first letter, OK, I think what I wrote, I think I contacted that priest in Colombia, South America, when Scientology volunteer ministers made the claim that they five ministers served, what was it, 30000 meals a day and watched 2000 children. Each day. I'm the oldest of seven. I wouldn't want to watch seven kids and five intrepid volunteer ministers watch two thousand children a day, and I remember reading that and thinking bullshit.

So but they don't they're very careful not to put identifiable information. Oh, sure. Yes, right.

Right. So a lot of times I'll make a screen cap of a photograph and I'll blow it up or I'll invert the cut, anything I can do to find one identifiable feature. And in this case, there wasn't any photographs, but they had used the they said it was a Catholic charity and they said that it was in this town in Colombia. Then they were serving the Venezuelan refugees on the border. And from there, I searched until I discovered what that Catholic charity was.

And I contacted the diocese who put me in touch with the priest who runs, who founded and ran this charity. And I, I whenever I contact someone, I give them a link to the actual article that I'm from Scientology.

I'm yeah. To Scientology. So they can see the propaganda, what I'm asking about. And so that there's no question, you know, that here it is as it as they're saying it. And he I told him I said I wanted to confirm these numbers because they seem outrageous to me. And he sent me back and he said they showed up. I don't even think they prayed. They took a couple of pictures and that was the end of it.

And that's what started me that I got such a kick out of that. Right. And I was like, oh, my God, this is a thing I need to do. Right? Right. And that's from there every time I see a picture. And that's why when I see there are pictures of handing out their stay well booklets and all of this, any time there's anything I can identify in those photographs, I contact that company right now.

What was the next one you did? You did one for the Red Cross right there.

They were running around saying, yes, there was OK, there was the one.

What was it they re-route. Yes. And they decided to volunteer. Ministers made it sound like the Red Cross in Beirut was working for them in this charity thing. And I was like, this probably isn't true either. I didn't think somebody again, you know, I've had not good success with reaching out overseas, but I thought I'm going to do it anyway. And the response as I put in my blog, you know, and it would it turned out that that was crap, too.

And I think I kind of found my niche with that. But Scientology is making a little bit difficult for me now because they're not posting a whole lot of what they're doing here in the States. Right. The last time was, I believe, where they faked that Seattle street clean up, where it turned out they were just across the street from their Scientology. Org. Right from Seattle. Yeah. They weren't over at the Space Needle. And when I contract when I contacted Adopter Street or Seattle, they were like, look, we don't do that right now because of the coronaviruses.

Right. Because of the pandemic pandemic. We've, you know, kept everything from from going forward. All these events, we've canceled them. So we were not part of that. Right. So I think that was the most recent thing that I've done. But yeah.

Yeah. And it's amazing work. I mean, and the reason why I want to go through this, because I really want people to see you are just one person who said who saw something and you were like, this is some bullshit.

You went you went so far as to request through the Public Information Act.

Is that right, Mike? That. Yeah, because I want you to I mean, for me. Yeah.

The reason why it's important, Stephanie, is because what you don't know, maybe and maybe what most people don't know is as a Scientologist, questioning Scientology as I was, as I'm sure other people were when we would have to go to these events, these mandatory events at the Shrine Auditorium in Los Angeles. Right. And sit there for how long were these events, like three and a half hours, not I'm not allowed to know, two and a half not allowed to leave.

These were mandatory events. If you were, God forbid, like in the hospital, they'd be like, well, we need to come to you with a DVD, like, you need to watch the event. And, you know, this is being ordered by chairman of the board, Mr. David Miscavige. He needs you to see this. You know, like they you need to see these events. So what's happening at these events is they're showing these pictures, Stephanie.

They're showing congresswoman, congressman, city council people, mayors up on the screen with Scientologists, all the humanitarian efforts. So they show all the front groups, like you mentioned, doing the great works of Scientology. And you see real police officers like cosigning for Scientology, Congresswoman Koscielny for Scientology saying L. Ron Hubbard is an angel. And what you guys are doing is amazing work. And you have the Red Cross taking pictures with that. You know, all these like real organizations, right.

Doing the real work side by side with Scientology. You're like, well, I guess I'm the asshole because I'm sitting here questioning if I'm in some crazy fucking shit and is giving up my life, my child, my money, my life, for this thing worth it. And when you see these events, that's the effect it has on you. Well, if this cop is doing this, if this captain of the LAPD, captain of the Clearwater Police Department, this is what well, it must be OK.

I mean, I'm sure they that these organizations before they show up. Yeah.

And come to find out, as Stephanie has documented now on many occasions, they had no idea. In in. Sort of aggregate hole that this had anything to do with Scientology. Right, right. It's like somebody going up to you going to take a picture with you. Right. Yeah. Someone shows up and says, I've got a campaign against drugs or I've got a literacy campaign or we're cleaning up the streets and we've got yellow shirts on.

And that's a volunteer minister. And we take a shot with, you know, they're being featured.

That person is being featured on the big screen at the Scientology International event and endorsing this program. And what people don't know, like you say, Mike, that these events are not public. You're not allowed to show them. So they figure no one's ever going to see this person who we're saying is endorsing Scientology is never going to see this. How would they ever see this? Right. Because Scientologists are not going to take video with their phone and then send it to the person you're talking about, people who are loyal and faithful, followers of Scientology.

Right. So there's no way that person is going to find out. So what you're doing is the only way they're finding out, Stephanie, and like you said, because some might consider us apostates or like, well, they left and they have an axe to grind.

And whatever Scientology, whatever their line is, we sometimes feel that we're not being heard and certain in certain circles because of that. Right. Like because of our connection, because we've been been in it our whole lives.

So somebody like you doing this like who's never been in who has no no dog in this fight other than you're a human being who cares and decided to do something about it in the way that you could. It means so much. To me and to Mike, and I know we tell you this all the time, I mean, I email you that all the time, I don't know what else to say. I just kind of run out of compliments to give you.

But it does mean so much to me that this needs never I think never ends are the weak link.

Yes. Apathy because we don't know. Right. And as hard is as you and Mike have tried and try and you keep talking about all of this, Scientology comes, of course, back with all of their fair game and their crap and people sit back and go, oh, well, you know, this it happened. I want really, really, truly I want people to understand. That I never met you, either one of you, and I've never been a Scientologist, I, honest to God, have spent hours with Hubbard's works, my poor brain.

And it's wrong, all of it is bullshit and and you're not lying. I mean, this is crazy and yes, OK, in every walk of life, wherever there's people, there's going to be bad stuff that happens. But when it becomes policy. That's crazy. You know, I'm Catholic and I'm the first person who will say in my church right now, we are having some serious things that need to be addressed. What these priests have done is is absolutely wrong.

And what my church did to cover it up, there's no excuse for there is. There just isn't, however. In the overall scheme of things. These kind of things, it's not church policy to do these things. These are people that stepped over the line. And I honestly feel that the government, by removing the requirement not to get religious here, but by removing the requirement for a belief in God. In order to be a church. They have opened the door for cults like Scientology.

Well, we believe in Hubbert's, you know, revenge policies, and that's part of our firmly held beliefs. Well, yeah, somebody needs to stop you because you're not a religion. And I think that the government is partially responsible for that. In order to be a religion, you need to have a God in the mix. And their definition says that you have to have a set of beliefs that hold in the heart of the person the same place as a belief in God, which opens up the whole playing field.

I don't understand why the anti-tax movement are a religion, because it's the same thing. Right, right, right.

And here's the difference. You realize, Stephanie, you know that I agree with you about that.

But if the requirement for getting tax exemption in the United States, the IRS requirement said that there is a firm, an absolute belief in God, Scientology would just say that's the case. We have an absolute belief in God they'd come up with they'd write a bunch of stuff and say, here is our belief in God, this is what it is, and presented to the IRS. So that's the problem, not the problem.

I believe that the real issue for tax exemption should be monitored by what's called public benefit, and that only if you can prove that you are providing a benefit to the public at large do you qualify for tax exemption.

And that puts Scientology out of business.

Yeah, and you know who it was. Steve, can I can. I can. Yeah, that one. He said, you know, how how can I think it was him who said about Scientology is not a charitable organization. Right. And he's somebody somebody recently said that and I thought it was him. But in any case, how can Scientology claim to be a charitable organization when their actions are so not charitable? And if let's let's go with that definition and say, OK, fine, let it stand.

How do you determine whether those are truly held beliefs or not by the person's actions? Right. And when Scientology has people coming out that are, you know. Devastated and emotionally broken. You know, and they're claiming that there's financial fraud and forced abortions and human rights abuses. And who is actually out there on the Freewinds right now in the hole and in the bilge, just all of those things. At what point? What is it going to take?

For the government to step forward and say, OK, we don't see this charitable stuff, and it's one of the things that does motivate me to check their stories all the time, because I guess I'm still a bit naive and I keep thinking and hoping that if I can prove that they're lying often enough, maybe somebody will finally go, oh, you know, maybe we should look into this.

Kuhnen is a conspiracy theory so complex that it's formed a cult like following many of its followers, Tinku is associated with Donald Trump and that he's cryptically communicating with them via obscure image boards online. Hundreds of thousands of people across the world believing this, and as a result, KUIN, on his torn families apart, led people to violence and is even infiltrating the highest levels of government with disinformation. Now, in 2020, more than 70 US congressional candidates have either shed or outright endorsed Cuno material.

President Trump has even given a veiled thumbs up to the movement outside of what the conspiracy community thinks. Nobody quite knows the true identity of. Q We aim to change that. I'm Jake Hanrahan. Join me for a Q Clearance, a podcast series that aims to look at who is really behind. Q and on listen to Q clearance on the radio up a podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts.

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Well, Stephanie, don't forget, the people that ultimately have that responsibility are. Government officials, ultimately, that is who is going to put an end to the abuses of Scientology, but government officials are people just like you and everybody else.

And somehow or another, you saw the message and you went, I'm going to do something about this is outrage. I'm going to do something about it. We have to keep delivering the message until the people who are in those positions react the same way as you have. That's exactly what it's going to take, all we can do is keep putting the message out. What what we have to hope is that sooner or later, someone somewhere or someone's somewheres are going to have exactly the same reaction that you have had.

But they'll be in a position where they're actually able to do something about it, like able I mean, have the authority of the law to do something about it.

You've done something about it and probably invested more time and effort than a government official would have to who has the authority to do something about it.

So there is hope. There is hope that this will happen. And why we are so thrilled to be talking to you today is because you're such an example of how everybody and anybody can do something.

There is something that anybody and everybody can do and they don't have to invest their entire life in it. They have to get as active as you have or be as as as, you know, persistent and clever as you have been in doing it. But so everybody can do something.

And the and the do something, the louder the voice and the noise is and the more likely someone in a position who can actually do something under the law will hear.

And just to add to that, Mike and Stephanie, what it is that you're doing is like you're saying, it's getting harder and harder for you to see the lies.

That's that Scientology is posting, so you have created an effect, right, because and if any Scientologist is on Twitter and they're, you know, following these front groups on social media, you know, their Scientology front groups like the Stanley or Freedom Media Outlet, whatever the hell the whatever volunteer ministers. Right.

It's going to be harder and harder for them to to be able to lie to their own people. And so if that person is having doubts, they don't see that coming up on their Scientology timeline going, oh, my God, they're doing amazing things. So you are doing a tremendous service to to not only Scientologists that follow these accounts, because Scientology, you know, they're not following us, you know, so they're not going to see the truth.

They're not going to follow you. They're not going to see the truth, but they're not going to see these lies as many lies on their social media as Scientology has been putting out since you've been doing this. And I think even more so, even more importantly, the companies that you contacted and the organizations that you contacted are now going to think twice when they see an invitation from Scientology to come speak at our event or come here or, hey, they see those yellow shirts with the fake crosses on it.

Hey, what volunteer ministers on it? Hey, could you take a picture with us? You know, they're going to start to say, well, hang on a second, what's the name of your organization? And is that Scientology? Because now they know. Now they know. They didn't know before, as you didn't know Stephanie before.

Right.

I didn't know a thing about Scientology. And the more I find out. They're crazy. I would split my water up. Yeah, and it seems it seems like they're getting at least as far as the attacks on Mike and Leah. It seems like they're starting to feel a little desperate. Yes, they're showing off. I mean, the recent story about my you know, that now you've gone from just grabbing you have jumped on her, OK?

And, you know, some of us were talking recently and is like how he must have some long arms to be able to have jumped on her and held her arms and held his phone and held his keys, you know, all the while doing an interview, all the while doing interview for on the phone with what?

The BBC? Yes. I mean, and I know that there is that keep Scientology working. And the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics in all of this is acceptable to Scientology. But I can't I just can't get over that hump. Where. Teran and Kathy and the others that were there know exactly what happened. They were there, they did it, they didn't say anything to the police officers about what happened, it is what is good for Scientology.

You know, the the harm that is done by a lie against Mike Rinder or Bob Mintern or whoever the enemy Dejour is of Scientology is actually not considered to be a harm.

Like there is no downside to that lie from the perspective of Scientology and Scientologists.

Like let's say that. Let's just say let's just say let's just say you and I are in Scientology together, OK? We're in Scientology together. We go on CNN or whatever, and you go, so I'm going to say this and you're going to say this. And we've drilled for weeks what we're going to say. And I look to you in the green room and I go, Mike. I mean, we know this is a fucking lie. I mean, what would you say to me?

So what? It doesn't matter near the point, the purpose of this exercise is to end the attacks on Scientology. We're not there. We're not there as representatives of the ourselves to try and make ourselves look good. We are there as representatives of Scientology to try and make this enemy look bad.

And see, that's where I come in. I don't want them to be making people look bad anymore, and so I've decided to step up for whatever reason, I must be crazy, but I've decided that this is enough is enough. And these attacks, I mean. Body shaming, Leah, the way this ordained minister did you mean Edward Edward Tarkin, you mean Edward Dunn done to Amy Scobee and all the other guests? That I'm sure that tells me not that there's a bunch of angry, lying people, apostates out there.

It tells me Scientology is being threatened. And if I can do even a little bit to run of interference here and to make them more uncomfortable, then that's what I'm hoping that I can do. Well, Stephanie, we could not thank you enough for what you are doing, and like I said and to everybody out there, I mean, your support means so much to us and to those who feel that they can't do something. The reason we wanted Stephanian is because she's an example of just one woman who has done something.

And we believe that some of you out there can do something and should do something if you feel so compelled, find your thing that that you're passionate about. I mean, if if it's this if it's the children who are being abused, it's the families who are being destroyed in Scientology. If it's financial.

Yeah, but financial, actually. I mean, there's this and so many of them that they're hard to list, in fact. So if you if you have any interest in. Being. A force for good. There is plenty of opportunity when it comes to Scientology and no lack of of areas of activity to engage in.

Yes. So, Stephanie, sadly, yes. So, Stephanie Hutchinson, the name of your blog is. Now it is confront and shatter, confront and shatter, and is it still a, Z, H, L, Y and E. S blog? Yes, it's still does.

The links are the same, but it's easier to say now. Yes, confront the shadow. I like that. I like that. But I will I will absolutely include the links on Fair Game podcast dot com.

Oh, and before we before we end up Stephanie, I want to say one thing. You said something. You're Catholic and you mentioned something.

You're talking about the priest, the cover up of Catholic Church. Here's what's not going to happen to Steffanie today. She's not going to have a priest show up at her house or her job or her husband's job. Or. Her son's job and destroy their lives. You're not going to have priests picketing outside your street calling you or anybody, you know, a child molester.

No, they are not going to put up a website of you of all of the sins that you have confessed to in your whole Catholic lifetime. No, and they are not going to send pigs after you to harass you and scare you as Scientology does, and they will not put millions and millions of tax exempt money. Into destroying your life. And that is the difference between Scientology and world religion, everyone. Yeah, I have freedom. If I don't go to mass, nobody's going to come and try to yank me back to the church and forced me into a confessional box, right.

And there's also not a price list, right, in the Catholic Church of Services for your freedom. I mean, yes, people do give tithing. Yes, they do send around a basket. But there's not a priceless as there is in Scientology, is there?

No, absolutely not that basket, you can just pass it right to the next person without putting anything on there and nobody's going to even bat an eye at you. It's all voluntary, real, voluntary, not Scientology. Voluntary. Right.

Well, Stephanie, once again, thank you for all that you do. And thank you all for listening. Until next time.

Goodbye for Death by Michael. Kuhnen is the world's largest online conspiracy theory, followers believe someone Cucu is providing them with information about deep state cabal within American politics, within 70 US congressional candidates to be the shed or outright endorse Cuno material. But no one has confirmed the true identity of Kuis. We aim to change that. I'm Jake Hanrahan, joined me from our new podcast, Q Clearance, the series that aims to uncover the true creators of Kuhnen. Listen to Q Clearance on the Radio Up Apple podcast.

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We get real as we share the ups and downs of our mental health journeys. And I'd love for you to join me. Hey, it's going to be your church and your turn up. So listen to checking in with Michelle Williams every Tuesday, a part of the black effect on the I Heart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.