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Hey, all with that, it's just hilarious. And I'm just making sure y'all know that I got a book called Carefully Reckless All Black Effect Network.


That's the way I sell all my business that y'all already know and can't fully comment on other people's business to. It's respectable but messy at the same time. So make sure you tune in. Listen to carefully breakfast every Wednesday. That's Hump Day or the I Heart radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get Shelbourne case. Well, welcome to another episode of Scientology Fair Game.


Hello, Mike Haley, how are you? Oh, thank you.


We have another special guest with us today. Another another another one of our faves.


Yes, she is a little Vilaseca. Hi, Liane.


Welcome to the show. We really appreciate you being on. Thank you.


I'm really happy to talk to you.


And Mike Valeska, you were raised a Scientologist, your parents were Scientologists and you were sent into the Sea Org or what they call the cadet org when you were how old?


Six years old I was. Yeah. My parents got divorced and my dad went to the Sea Org and all of us kids with him.


What happened? You know, they got divorced. And why did they get divorced? Did they get divorced? Because he wanted to join us.


You know, they got divorced because they were having problems. My dad was like a struggling artist and my mom was a nurse. And like her last pregnancy, pregnancy was really bad. It was twins and one of them died. So she was in hospital for like three months straight.


And she was the one that made all the money. So it was a struggle. So they sent a Scientologist to resolve their marriage, which was a millionaire guy.


And he fell in love with my mom and had an affair with her. That was the the handling.


So let's go back. So let's go so you can tell that story.


So, Valeska, you were you were raised a Scientologist and at six years old, your parents were getting divorced, correct? Correct. Yes. And so why don't you take us from there.


Okay, so my parents were struggling in their marriage, so a Scientologist was sent to help resolve it. And it was this Swiss guy who was a self-made millionaire and he fell in love with my mom and they had an affair.


So you're so, so so Scientology sends a Scientologist to solve your your parents marriage and you're and and the Scientologist seduces your mother and has an affair with her. Yes.


You've got shows like sending her love letters and stuff. And he was very charismatic and very successful. So, yeah. So they had an affair.


And then actually I kind of exposed that when I was six because they were always together and I told my dad and it blew up and then they got divorced. And basically we were told by my dad that we were going to England with him to the kids. And I remember this so vividly because it was so traumatizing, but. My mom took us to England with my dad and we were at Saint Hill and it was just like old blue bus there, and she was with two members in great standing next to her.


And she was crying. And she's like, I'll be right back. I'm just going to the canteen to get hot chocolate.


Mm hmm. And we were put on the back of the bus and it just drove off. And that's the last time I saw her for, like. A few, a couple, I think it was like six months until she came and visited us for like a day. So I just want to be clear. I just want to be clear, because a lot of us ex cult members still talk in cults and it's OK. So basically, you you guys were shipped off to join Scientology see organization, which is the.


Hey, Mike, how would you explain what the Sea Org is?


It's it's a because people ask us why do they wear uniforms and what's the connection to the to the military uniform thing and why why is that why did L. Ron Hubbard come up with this pretended military look and theme.


Because everything is run, Simmi, like the military where you're saluting people and calling people, sir. And there they have all the epaulets and the what is that stuff that you put on your jacket when you're an officer and all that stuff?


What what of those called, like the campaign ribbons? Yeah, like what? So where does all of that come from? Because it's out there impersonating her from the military that came from Hubbard being in the Navy in World War Two.


And then subsequently when he was being pursued by various governments, most particularly he was living in England and he wanted to escape them. He bought a boat and then went to see in the Mediterranean on his boat and took with him a number of Scientologists from England who were the dedicated, most dedicated members of Scientology to go and live and work with L. Ron Hubbard aboard his ship. And that was the beginning of what became known as the Sea Organization. And because they were on a ship, they wore naval style uniforms.


And Hubbard fancied himself as a highly successful naval officer and implemented basically naval terminology and routines to the sea organization, as he called it. And the Sea Organization to this day has maintained a lot of those traditions, including the fact that those people who went to join him committed themselves for eternity to establish establishing the goals on aims of Scientology. And that became the infamous billion year contract that people who joined the Sea Org sign.


Right. And so they basically it's just kind of a I mean, obviously they're not going to be there for a billion years. But the motto of the Sea Org is, if you look up the little symbol on Wikipedia, even it says that stands for we come back.


And so L. Ron Hubbard has brainwashed all of its members, parishioners unsere, into believing that when you die, you'll take a 21 year leave of absence and then return back to the job of the sea organization or being a Scientologist again. Correct. OK. And, you know, there's even more to this, the the symbology is taken from the Galactic Confederation and the members of the Sea organisation are the current version of the loyal officers from OTTI three who vanquished Xenu.


And it's like it goes on and on and on. But the Sea Org is those people in Scientology who live and work full time, 365 days a year, all day and every day, live communally, eat communally and work for the good of Scientology for no money.


Right. So at age six, thank you. So at age six, you were put on this bus at Saint Hill, which is in England, and and shipped off to the sewer. Yes.


So we went from Saint Hill Systems, which was the the birthing. And it was this huge old, I don't know, like mentioned building, but it was completely rundown.


When I got there, I spoke no English and I remember going up these old stone stairs and down this like three kilometer drive full of holes. And going to the dining room and it was just a whole bunch of people going, and then we got to the dining room and it was this like all these white tables lined up and there was a huge hole in the ceiling, water all over the floor. And it was cold. It was England and lining up and eating this food, which to me was completely inedible.


And then they didn't have enough room. So we were all put me and my sister and my brother and my dad, and in a single bed that smelt like pee, the whole house smelled like pee and bleach. There's even a report on it when there was an inspection done and I was I missed my mom so much. I was a mama's girl and I didn't know where she was. I was so confused. So I was throwing up all night.


And then the next day my dad started the EPF and we were put in the car. That and that was my first experience of no emotions because our nanny was French and I was crying and she was like, knock it off. Like, that's not a case of dramatizing. And she put me to work. So so, you know your emotions.


So, you know, you should feel emotional. So you are put to work at age six to be in this gadg, which is not officially the Sea Org yet, but it's kind of like the at this time because also like people get confused about kids in the Sea Org at this time, they were allowing children in the Sea Org in this manner. They still allow children in the Sea Org. You're just not allowed to have children while you are Sea Org members.


Does that make it clearer or am I confusing everybody? Why do you think.


No, I think I think that's clear. I mean, back in the old days, children could be born to members of the Sea Org. That's no longer allowed. But children who have parental consent now are allowed to join the Sea Org as long as are over the age of 10 or something. I don't even know what it is. Right.


And back in the back in the old days, like when my kids were born, they were born into the Sea Org, right.


And then when she was six, she was along with she came into the Sea Org, but there were children there who would show of Sea Org members who had been born in the Sea Org. Right.


And just to also let everybody know, when you say nanny, I think you're being kind of no normal person would find this an acceptable set up.


But these people who are assigned responsibility for looking after the children have absolutely no skills or qualifications to do so. In fact, in the Sea Org, generally, the nanny, quote unquote, that's what they're called, because Hubbard wrote a for exactly an issue that says this is what the nanny's job is. Right. The nanny is usually someone that can be is an expendable, someone that can't do the normal jobs. So gets put to looking and watching the kids, as you mentioned.


Yes. Yeah. This is just how the how things are in the Sea Org. The menial tasks, the unimportant stuff is the stuff that people who are incapable of making money or being a Scientology, you know, executive or counsellor or something, they get assigned to doing those sort of jobs.


Right. It's a degrading job. It's like, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. It is considered a degrading job. For example, there was a guy who was when I was like ten, there was a guy who was a peeping Tom and he kept on looking at women showering and he wouldn't stop. So he was going to be sent to the RPF. And then they're like, OK, we'll give you one last chance. You can look after the kids.


So he became. Many, quote unquote, and he ended up installing cameras in our dorms and getting off on watching us changed, right.


So this is this is this is a normal this is normal practice in Scientology. I wish I can say that this is something this is how they look at children they don't look at. The most important job would be to put the most trusted, the most able, the most valuable members of Scientology in charge of our children.


This is not abnormal and nothing has changed or and nothing will change if we don't continue to get these types of stories out. And and Volesky, even if you were asked if because people say how can people are not talking about it? Well, a Scientology children currently do not understand that this is illegal, that they are being abused, that their parents could be charged with neglect by putting their children and these in the Sea Org and in these types of situations.


So the people who who need to speak out currently as opposed to us, you, Alaska and those who continue to speak and tell their stories are the ones telling the stories. But this is not in the past. It's happening today and it will continue if we don't continue. So here you are in the Sea Org and the Cadet Org at age six. And you're working right. You're working as any other child would be working in the Sea Org.


You're what are you doing? What kind of tasks do you have to do in the gig.


So we did all the cleaning of all of this. Have you been to St. Anne's Month? Oh, I was in the EPF there to Valeska. Now, every day there were states. Let me just tell everybody, because you guys are saying RPF and EPF and nobody knows what you're talking about. The ETF is like the mint is like the training, the beginning training camp to be a Sea Org member. The RPF is when you, you know, molest a child or rape somebody, they put you on the decks.


So, you know, it's basically the same thing.


It's like prison. Well, I wouldn't say it's like prison because it isn't was because not Alaska, they vilaseca a real prison is a real prison. The RPF is not enough punishment for somebody who molests a child or who raped somebody.


Right. You're still alive, right. So you're still living a free life. You're not in a real prison. You might be in Scientology prison, but you're still free. You're cleaning your you're doing things, you know, as a free, somewhat free person.


You're not in jail where you should be and you're not registered. No one knows like crowds, but people like that. It's known about.


So Valeska, at six years old, you're put into this big organization. And what are you what are you kids doing every day? What is it that you have to do in the network to train to be steller Sea Org members? OK, so I have to tell you this, one of the first things that happened is I was six years old and I was sat down and I was made to sign a sealed contract that million year, a billion year contract, because it was a statistic.


Right. They wanted us to all be future. So I was OK. There was no choice in the matter. It was like, read this and sign it.


Of course, we've survived it at six years old.


OK, go ahead.


We were run like the Navy, so we were like we had to stand in line and so they could control where we were because I was at that time, there were so many children and hardly any people looking after us and any quote unquote nannies. Right. And then we were put to work to clean the whole house. We used pure bleach to clean everything. So like, I had to get, like, really dry and and crack and you'd have this smell of fleet up your nose constantly.


So, you know, protective gear. No, no protective gear. And it was like those big bottles of pure bleach. It didn't even have anything else in it. Right. We cleaned the bathrooms. We clean the grounds. The weed there was like this old swimming pool there that was always full of, like broken beds, frogs, glass. And we'd go in there barefooted and have to take out the glass with our hands and empty it all out.


Yeah, and then we had to study Hubbard like two and a half hours a day in the evening, so on top of the the labor that they were forcing children to do, they would force you to then study at night. And so you kids were working from 8:00 in the morning till. What things we had dinner for half an hour, and so you go to study it, not study, so nine o'clock at night, six year olds and you did this for how long?


Well, then I started like going to a Scientology school site to do that in a day and we'd work after. But I did that till I was 14.


Another thing that happened, which you did this you're 14 years old. Yes, OK. And there was times like yet another thing that happened is I missed my mom so much and I was so miserable. And I remember I was trying to get attention. So I would purposely, like, hurt myself. To get attention. But I got yelled at for that because that was, you know, I got really yelled at for doing that because you. Your mom.


Yes, yes.


And where was your father throughout all this? Was your father was parenting you? Who was.


No, no. He was in the Sea Org. He lived like we lived in dorms. So that was probably about 50 girls. That was also babies that we had to look after the baby. So I was changing nappies and looking after babies at the age of six. My dad at the beginning, we had family time for an hour, but my dad missed my mom and he would just sleep and I remember I would clean his room to try and make him feel better about it, but and then that was canceled.


Another thing is that I would do headstands on my bed and I was on the top bunk because we had bunks like just to Rebelle somehow and to somehow have some control. So I'd get pulled out of bed and I had to wash pots every night, huge pots at six years old, which actually put my back out. And had I ended up having one shoulder bit higher than the other, which. Got 50 years later because every night I was watching these big pots with the RPF.


Until about 10, 30, 11 at night, that went on for probably about a month because I just I kept on doing the headstands on my bed. I don't know. It was I was trying to have some control right now.


Volesky, at any point that the senior people ever tell you if the authorities come or anybody comes, a child, you know, Child Protective Services come and this is what you have to say, because this is I mean, if anybody walked in and seen children working like this, using, you know, working with bleach, living on their own, taking care of a six year old, taking care of babies is insane.


Did you ever get trained on how to speak to people? Should they ever come to. To yes and talk to you, what did they say you should say to the authorities? So first we had like we also were put on the mirror once a week to make sure we didn't do anything wrong, which was so scary for me because someone would be like watching this needle and you didn't know what it meant. And so then sometimes we'd have to act like we had to do like the conditions where if you did something wrong, you would disciplined all who taught you what to say to the authorities.


What did they tell you to say? So from the age of six, we were made like when I was there, I was made to believe that police were bad, authorities was bad, government was bad, lawyers were bad, like any of these people were really bad people.


And that you always put Scientology first, like you cannot like you have. It's called like a white lie or acceptable truth.


So you have to an extent. Yeah. We've all learned this, by the way. Good. Yeah.


And then actually there was a time where like when I was about ten to 12 when we were verbally a little bit and I picked up the phone and I was like, I'm calling Child Services because the cook like beat me up with a mop in my face and. So it's like I'm calling child services, that the nanny came and bit the phone out of the wall, and then I had to do like disciplinary actions and do all this extra work for having done that.


And the damage was done.


So you had to, like, write down your sins for them. Yes, right.


So you learned basically don't report, don't say anything. And this is basically the indoctrination to any Scientologist, whether or not they're in the Sea Org or not. I mean, all of us learned this, that, you know, anything that happens within Scientology is your fault anyway. Yes. And if it is, the other person's fault of the other person is at fault. They'll handle it within Scientology.


And but even if the other ahead, even if the other person is at fault, like if like if someone came and punched me in the face and they got in trouble for doing that, I would also have to look at what did I do? They call people to have that happen to you.


What did I do wrong for that to happen to me? And that was my mentality from I mean, I was born in Scientology, but it was really pushed when I went to the cadet. OK, so that's how I fought my whole life. And I still I think for myself, I still think if anything happens to me that's bad. I'm still always internalizing, like, what did I do like to make that happen to me?


Because it doesn't just happen overnight, you know, to change what you were raised with, because this is your ultimately these are your parents raising you.


So, you know, Scientology is your parents. And even though you you know, what your parent is doing is is is wrong, it's still your parents. You're you're still hoping your abuser will be your comfort.


Yes. Well, they were not enough.


I don't think that we can ever stress enough, Leah, this concept that is hammered and hammered and hammered in Scientology, that you are responsible for your condition, that whatever happens to you, something bad, it's because you did something bad. And the solution is to find out what you did that caused that to happen to you, because it is probably the most damaging single thing that happens in Scientology is that people come to believe this is absolutely true. So therefore, anything bad that ever happens to them in Scientology is their fault, correct?


Yeah, you're absolutely right, you're absolutely right and on top of it. You know, I know I've talked to you, Mike, about this, and I've also, you know, texted Valasco and I'm texting everybody emailing are telling everybody about this book, The Betrayal Bond, which if if you have if you're interested in your own mental health, whether you were in a cult or not. The Betrayal Bond is a book that talks about why people stay, why people don't speak out, why it takes so long for people to leave.


Why did you still believe in this relationship? Why did you still believe in your abuser? This this book goes over all of this. And I just wish that I'm going to start pulling out just, you know, pages because, you know, I'm asked the same question all the time as well. You as well. Anybody who's leaving Scientology or even an abusive relationship, why did you still believe in them?


Why on top of this, Mike, it goes over certain things like, you know, traumas in your life, right? Like, you know, things like, you know, abuse, sexual abuse, physical abuse, mental abuse. Right.


But then it says now, if you had this and then you've had a few betrayed by your religion, if you were betrayed by your parents and I'm like, check, check, check, check.


And it says, and if you've had one of these, you need to do some trauma work with a trauma specialist, because a lot of people go to therapy and they go, this is not helping me because you have to go to people who do trauma work.


And it's so important to understand this is a concept because all of us need to be understanding the same thing so that we are telling the world why people are staying in these things.


Why why it took me six years to leave. Right. Why it took you so long to leave? Why it took Velasco so long until it makes sense. When you read this book and you understand what happens when you have a betrayal bond with your abuser.


That's how it gets created. That bond is created right from the betrayal. And I'm listening to it on our daily walk. Oh, good. Entire neighborhood is hearing this. I am disseminating this book to our entire neighborhood as we walk around each day listening to it.


And Mike, have you had any thoughts about it as you listening to the beginning? I mean, I don't know if you're far enough yet in. But it is like I mean, I've had to put it down. And Valerie, you know, Valerie, my assistant, she's had to put it down. It's not an easy it's not easy work to do. Yeah, it's yeah, you're exactly right, and there are so many things within it that are you go, oh yeah.


Yeah, exactly, yes. Yeah, that's exactly right. Oh yeah, that makes sense. Yes. It really is very, very interesting and brings up a lot of things that that you don't necessarily think of as this is. Yes, exactly. Yes. And and examples of it and and how it affects people and affects people for ever forever unless they do the work.


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Right, and that's the thing. There is hope, right, if you've been in an abusive relationship. There is hope you just have to be doing the right work, and I've talked to people who said I'm in therapy, I'm still, you know, I'm like, well, you've got to be getting the right therapy. And I know it's a pain in the ass to try somebody else and to get on just get on the right track. But we you know.


But, Volesky, this all makes sense to me, right? It's it's it's thinking in terms of you are a victim of your parents in this case. I mean, from age six, from the moment you were you, it makes you cry when you're talking about getting on the bus.


I mean, that is a trauma experience that for any child to be ripped from their mother. And then everything that happened after after that is very valid.


Vilaseca, it's just that we're not used to thinking in terms of being a victim, because that's the worst thing you can be in Scientology. And I think you're still as well. I working with that concept that you try to just say, I'm not a victim, I'm moving to.


Yeah, I know. I know you said that. Well, I'm like, no, I'm not. I wasn't a victim. But but I said, yes, you know, six.


Exactly. And things that happened after were just as bad. So anyway, so sorry to go on. But but so, so valasco. So at this point. So you so you live this horrible abused life until 14. Were you then what. Joined the Sea Org. Yeah.


So I'll have to, I just want to tell you one thing that I felt was important shouldn't be controlled in England like some kids went to a Scientology school on a day like me and then others to a non Scientology school. And if we got sick, so the people that the quote unquote nannies, I don't know how else to say it, they would go into Saint Hill. So if, for example, from the age of six, if I got sick and about once a year I would get this illness, I would just throw up and throw up and stuff.


And it was usually for four days I was left that Anne's alone. Oh, that's why we left.


That was Irving like, OK, so you were just left to just throw up by yourself all day of sex, OK?


No food, no doctors, nothing. And that's how it was for all of us. Or like one time I took too much notice and I was like, really, really sick. Same thing. No doctors. We never were taken to doctors. Nothing just left there. And like, I just think of that because if my kids are sick now, like, I didn't realize it was wrong, like, that's just how I raised you.




But now after I had my own kids, I was like, I'm horrified that that would happen.


Like, well, that's just because you're a parent. But so. Yeah.


So at the age of 14, you went to Florida.


Yeah. So my mom was a Scientologist with her millionaire husband in Florida and we would go see her sometimes in summer for like six weeks, which was almost worse because we had a normal life for six weeks and then it got ripped away from us again.


And did you ever in your mother never asked you, you know, what are you guys doing over there? This was a totally acceptable live to your mom that her kids are being abused all day, every day for. Well, she went there and she saw the conditions, so I have to say yes, and she was was she was doing her Scientology, which was like, this is normal to a Scientologist, this life.


Yeah, OK. Yeah, my mom was in the Sea Org and I saw her. I would go to her room at like 11, 30, midnight every night and see her. And this was when I was on the like the EPF where you do all the training to become the Sea Org member. And then I was put in an organization which dealt with the servicing of the executives of Scientology like David Miscavige.


Mike Rinder, key on the set of all those guys. So when they came down, I would clean their rooms, do their laundry, wake them up in the morning, make their breakfast, do their dry cleaning. Yeah. So I did that. And then when I was doing that, my mom decided to take off. When I was 14, she took off from the Sea Org and left me behind. So I went to her room and I was waiting for her till 4:00 in the morning and she was gone again.


So. Yes, she left me in the field and didn't take me with her. Anyway, so after doing that for four years, serving the executives and stuff, my mom started speaking out about Scientology and she went to France and she went on TV and talked about Scientology abuse. So then I became a threat and David Miscavige, his eyes, because I had been on his service lines. So I knew things about him. You know things about him.


Like what?


Well, I saw him like yelling at people, pushing people against the walls. It was cool to beat people up. Like that's the that's what I learned from being around him. But that reaction. Yeah. Yeah. Right.


So you're so so you're speaking out, your mom speaking out and you're you're acting out because you're you're. You're flowing to people, which is causing people to abuse you and commit crimes against you and show what they feel that you're a problem and they tell you they ship you off somewhere.


Well, what happened is, first of all, when my mom spoke out, I had to I got kicked out of this high organization because I was a potential trouble source and no longer qualified to be on these perfect people's lines, right?




And that's actually when I worked with Valerie and we were working crazy hours, we were getting like four hours sleep a night. The other thing is I was human trafficked to Florida and working directly for David Miscavige because I was 14. I didn't have legal papers at that time. My passports were taken and David Miscavige was directly part of that because I was working for him. So when I was 18, I was well, my mom came back to Florida from France and Switzerland, and I was put on 24 hour watch.


So I had to be with someone at all times.


Why? And you didn't want you near your mother or they didn't want her to come and take me.


And she had been seen driving where I lived and she put a package in front of my door what it is.


So what was the point was that it was a white sweater and a photo of my baby brother Michael. And it's that and it had a note saying that she loved me, OK, that was it. And I secretly kept it because I shouldn't have like that was wrong because she was like evil, right. Suppressive person. So. So then I was in the dining room and this lady from OSA said, are you ready to go to the Freewinds?


And I was like, What? And she said, Oh, David Miscavige has ordered that you go to the Freewinds. And I was like, I don't want to go to the Freewinds. And I started crying because I didn't want to go. And she's like, oh, don't worry. It's only for a couple of weeks and we got to get you away because your mom is back now. And it's it's you know, it's potentially. Could cause a public relations nightmare.


Cool. Yes. So now so now, Mike, were you on the lines at this point knowing what Villas-Boas mother was doing or. I don't remember what year is this, the 90s 596 she put 088 on the Internet. Yeah, I mean, I was I can't remember what I was doing, I think I was on the decks at that point.


Well, Mike well, Mike, let me ask you this from from an Oza perspective, what why is Vilaseca now being so Volesky, his mother speaking out against Scientology. She's putting confidential information of what the secrets of Scientology are on the Internet.


From your perspective, Ossa right. Office of Special Affairs. This is the the whatever you are part of that you were the head of this department. Like what's happening internally. This now becomes the lisker becomes a potential attacker by reason of her mother and her relationship with her mother and a mother coming to Florida after she's been going on TV in Switzerland and creating a big stink, it would appear that she was coming to collect Valeska.


So that's a problem. Why? To Oza? Because. Because if she gets a hold of Valeska, just like Valeska just said. Yeah. And she grabs Valeska and then starts going on TV with the Lisker and she starts talking about David Miscavige. Oh my God. That's the disaster of the universe as far as the Office of Special Affairs is, is concerned.


And that was the worst thing. She can go on the Internet and and and or on the media and do whatever she wants. But she didn't have any personal knowledge about David Miscavige, but Valeska did. So Valeska becomes a huge potential PR flap. And also that's why. Yes, go ahead then. The handling for that is to get her to a location that is unaccessible to her mother and her mother.


The free winds, the Scientology ship that sails around in the Caribbean is completely and utterly unbreakable. If you are not a crew member or on board the Freewinds for valid reasons, you can't get on there.


The only way you can get on and off a ship is one gangplank. There's only one thing blink under the Freewinds and you have to get into the dock, you have to get onto the boat. It's like it's and they can just literally lift up the gangway and sail off somewhere else if there was a problem.


But but just so you know, Lya, that from the perspective of Oza, it's the David Miscavige stuff, that freak debris would freak everybody out. Right. That other stuff is in the minds of Scientologists is sort of ho hum routine. That's just what happens all day, every day.


And big deal. Seriously, I know that it's not. But that is the mindset. The mindset of the Office of Special Affairs is protect David Miscavige at all costs beyond protect Scientology, all costs. So Valasco was a a threat or a potential threat to that. And that's why she had to be gotten out of Florida, where her mother was right. And off to the Freewinds, where she could be hidden from her mother and the world.


And she's Volesky is not the only person that has been sent to the Freewinds under those circumstances, like there are other people who have also been very problematic, who have been sent to the Freewinds because of the security of its location. Like Don, Jason is another one who was a person also in Florida who was involved in the Lisa McPherson matter and other things and got shipped to the Freewinds. He eventually escaped by sliding down one of the ropes of the Freewinds.


Marty Rathbun was the Freewinds.


Marty Rathbun was sent to the Freewinds after he had blown escaped from the Sea Org and Miscavige. Sweet talked him into coming back and sent him to the Freewinds under God with Greg Wilhem, who we have heard about with Claire and and Ray Madoff, who were there for years to keep him under control and under wraps while the IRS was finalized. The negotiations with the IRS were finalized because he was such a big threat.


So Valeska going to the Freewinds is not a I like completely out of the ordinary circumstance, although the case the situation with her mother. And and she has mentioned it, but also her stepfather, who committed suicide after being forced into bankruptcy by all of the ridging that happened, where he gave all of his money and more away to save energy and became destitute and committed suicide.


And that's what Volesky, his mother, was upset about and was talking to the Swiss authorities. And there was government investigations as well as media.


This was like a big deal. So Volesky was one part of that bigger picture and she had to be gotten out of the way and out of sight, out of mind as fast as possible.


And can I just ask you one question, Mike? What should happen with those investigations? With nothing?


I mean, there was a civil lawsuit. There was I think that maybe this settlement. What?


No, Scientology sued my mom because she put the general information on the Internet.


And they and I just remember it was a sort of an endless mess, but it never really amounted to nothing.


Right? Well, it's not about her getting nothing, really. It was more about why the authorities weren't doing anything about what Scientology was doing once again.


Yes. Yeah, yeah. Right.


OK, so they told you at this point you need to leave for a few weeks and you do what's right.


But you ended up being held prisoner there for 12 years on this ship. Yeah, yeah.


Almost 12 years. But yeah. So basically what happened is I was woken up two hours before my plane left. I couldn't even pack anything. I just had a little bag and I was escorted to the Freewinds by a guy named Quintan. And as soon as I got that was Crucell. I was like, I don't want to I don't want to be here. I met the captain and I said, When am I going back to fly? And so I was instantly in trouble.


I was instantly getting yelled at. I was sent to the engine room until I had a what they call a cognition, which is a realization. So I'm just saying, what about the fact that I was being and this is going to be Scientology again, but I don't know how else to say I was being of purpose. I was putting myself before the group and that is unacceptable. So selfish.


So you get to you get forced into an engine room. It's you you're just sitting there until you realize or have this realization that you're being a horrible person.


Yes. And just so you know, when you arrive on the Freewinds, there's a big security guard that the gangway and the first thing that happens is passport. Green card, Social Security card, any legal papers turn them over and they confiscate, they compress. So you didn't how dumb, how dumb, Jason was able to escape as he hid his driver's license. So he had a legal thing. But I had I had nothing. I also had no bank account, like I had no access to the outside world.


I'd be on this my whole life.


You had known and you even if you did have a phone, who would you contact? I've never been to call nine one one. It would never come to your brain to call the authorities. It just wouldn't.


It's just not an auto, that's all. That's that. That would be so evil and right. Like getting excommunicated in my mind was worse than getting shot because it's your whole eternity, you know, and you've betrayed the only people that are going to save mankind. That was my mindset. But so yeah. So I was there and like at the beginning, I was working in a restaurant, but I didn't want to be there. I made it clear I didn't want to be there.


I kept on getting yelled at. And eventually the captain brought me up to his office. And the captain of the Freewinds loves to do this, where he brings you up to his office. He has a whole audience around him. And you get yelled at at the top of his lungs for half an hour straight. And I was basically told that I was not getting off the Freewinds and I was put on full time engine, the engine room decks and then washing pots all day for about six to eight months.


I had a very good relationship with Shelly Miscavige. We used to write back and forth, and when I was in Florida, she was the only person who told me, you know, getting an education is actually really important. And that's my big regret because I was on the Apollo 12 and I stopped going to school. So she ordered me to do these mathematics books that she wanted me to study. And I had to like when I learnt division, I had to tell her how she would test me every time she saw me.


So for me, she was like a mother figure. So when I was on the frequency, I wrote her and I said, I don't want to be on the Freewinds. I want to go back to Florida. I hate it here. And they read and open all your mail. So I got like I got in trouble for that. Yeah. And they ripped the letter up. They said we ripped the letter up. We're not going to send that to her.


That's negativity. Right. Then on the Freewinds, you can't everyone has a cruise card and you have a number and you're your cruise card number has to be activated by security to be able to call off the ship and all phone calls and monitored. And if you're in trouble, they deactivate it so you can't make phone calls. You're always restricted to the ship if you're in trouble. So you can't go off the ship. But for me, for the first year, I was not allowed to go off the ship anyways in case my mum was came and took me for the first six years.


I was not allowed off the ship without an escort. So every time I went to the gangway this big, so if you're in trouble, you go to the gangway and this big R comes up for restricted and it beeps really loud. So this is so embarrassing. So for six years I had that every time I had to go ashore and there was a note saying either she's in trouble and she can't go ashore or she's not in trouble, but she has to have an escort.


No. Yeah, so during this time that you were on the ship, Valasco, what did you observe? I mean, there were people being treated just as bad as they were being treated at Saint Hill. And the flag, was it was it a little better here, which sounds just as was worse?


Yeah, maybe. I mean, when I was that child, it was terrible because I was a child. But the frequencies is so out of the way. It's such a small space. It's so controlled. It was I felt so trapped. And after eight months of getting yelled at, having a 15 minute meal breaks, not having any privileges at all, not able to. Like talk to anyone, even if I was listened to on the phone, you know, I at least I'd be able to maybe talk to my dad or something, but I couldn't do any of that.


And being basically brainwashed into you are wrong for not wanting to be here. You are betraying the group because in a cell specifically and I think as Scientologists to but in the Sea Org, if you'd put yourself first, they'd call it less dynamic orientated, which means you're selfish, you're putting yourself before the group. And that's like it's considered like the best thing to show.


You are accused of that. So you are accused of being selfish person because you.


Yeah. And then I had to put in play like the code of a SEAL member, which includes you go wherever they send you in the line of duty.


Right. So and then when so after six to eight months of that, I just resigned to like well I'm I have to make the best of my life, like, this is what I have to be. So they have to be here or continue being in the engine room and washing pots for the rest of my life. So that's what I did. So it's never what I wanted. But it was this is my life. I don't have a choice.


And then when David Miscavige came to the ship Maiden Voyage, I saw him and he's like, Oh, I forgot. I have sent you here. So I was like, oh, I'm going to be here for the rest of my life now, because the only way I can ever get off is if he said, oh, she can leave the ship. I'm looking for a new podcast. You do not want to miss under the influence. I'm your host, Jo Piazza, and I'm taking you into the depths of the mom Internet, a place that preys on some new mothers while also minting millionaires.


Instagram ruins women for a time. Influencer certainly feel the pressure. How could I have a baby and not share it? I'll come to my Instagram. It's not for influences. It's from the influences.


Starting on February 4th, dive down the rabbit hole with me to find out how the commodification of motherhood is driving a lot of us to the edge of our sanity. Listen to Under the Influence with Jo Piazza on the I Heart radio app or wherever you get your podcasts.


So we're supposed to be sticking to the script, but we ain't because this is not what we do is you go out and bam. Yeah. And it's AJ Hey. And we're giving a whole bunch of good, bad advice and a lot of bad. You're trying to teach you how to say when, how and how much. Yes. Now, that doesn't always have to apply to your sex life, ladies. It can absolutely apply to your career unless your sex life is your career and it is changeable.


We're talking about a whole lot of sex. I love the sex and I've mentioned the love of money in relationships. We're going to work on that.


So listen to our new show. We Talk Back every Thursday on the radio app and podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Melissa, you know, I also have spent a good deal of time on the Freewinds and in fact in the engine room, and you talk about it like a while just in the engine room. And I don't think anybody really understands what you mean.


That means literally scraping shit off the bottom of the engines in the engine room.


That means doing hard manual, dirty, filthy work all day long, because in the mind of Scientology, this is how you come out of your self, important or self-determined or dynamic orientation or something. It's yeah, you get out of it by doing hard work and it's really gross and it's it's disgusting and it's it's degrading and debilitating and claustrophobic.


Yeah. I mean, it's really pretty rough because you're not interested because you're not in hazmat suits are you or.


Yeah, no, no, no.


I used to when I was sent to the to clean the buildings when at the end of the night I would take a bath in fuel oil. Yeah. Fuel oil is the fuel that the ship runs on the diesel engine runs on lights like gasoline.


Why would you do that. Because the grease wouldn't come off any other way. Like I was filled the grease head to toe. I mean, yes, literally every square inch of my body was covered in black, grimy grit grease that sticks inside your pores.


And if you don't wash, get take a first long bath in fuel oil, you can't get it off with soap.


So this was a daily routine of taking a bath in fuel oil when I worked in the in the bilges in the engine room. But Volesky people say, oh, yes, but ultimately you were allowed off. So how can you say you were held prisoner on the Freewinds?


And I you know, this is something that that I have written about on my blog fairly recently about the the abuse or the mental brain or the brainwashing that goes on with people so that you believe that you are not able to escape or that escape will be worse than prison, et cetera, et cetera, because of death.


Yeah, well, that's exactly right. Like you said, you'll lose your eternity because Scientology comes back and says, oh, Valeska, she's a liar. She went, you know, she was able to go ashore like after eight years, but they kind of miss that point. And she even went on a plane and went to England and came back of her own free will. And I know they've said the same thing about me. You could have just walked off the property any time you wanted.


You could have left.


And this tell tell me what your mindset was after eight years of being hammered and brainwashed and indoctrinated into these ideas of why you were at the Freewinds, what your mindset was about leaving.


Well, first of all, it was hammered into me from the age of six. So I have that mentality, but my mindset was like one of the things they say, oh, she worked in the restaurants and these police officers came on board and she could have said something. And I'm like, first of all, I didn't know who they were. Second of all, they were sitting with the captain of the port captain. And third of all, that wouldn't even cross my mind.


That would have been so bad. I believed in Scientology. Right. And I would have sabotaged Scientology and put them in danger. It was it's a mental prison. It's it's changed that you can't see. The other thing is when you want to leave, you have to go through the gangway. And I saw people trying to out out of the Sea Org like leave and it would take them a year of daily interrogations. And a lot of them just gave up and were like, whatever I'm saying, like there's a mental like there's a mental prison, but it's also physically on the freeways.


You can't just. And if I did get off onto the game when I had no legal papers, I had nothing.


But you also that you wouldn't need legal papers if you went to parties. What about if you went to the authorities and said, you know, being abused, as I have been since I'm six years old, but you wouldn't have done that because it's it's a mental block. It's a it's a prison of your own mind.


So it makes sense. You're running away to where you're where are you going to there's no how do you get a hold of your mother?


And even if you did get a hold of her, she you still think she's the evil one you hated, separated from the brainwashing of it all to even think that she was an option yet? So it makes sense to those who are who've lived through this kind of hell side.


You know, and just going back to the book that you mentioned, this is exactly what that book talks about, betrayal, bond.


Yes. It's exactly what this is all about it.


Can I ask you guys a question? Yes. Inhumane treatment. Like you're saying, you're you're you're in shit. You're in toxic. You're taking VADs in fuel oil.


Did you guys I know the answer to this, but you guys went to the authorities. Let's just fast forward. You went to the authorities. The authorities know all of these stories, correct?


Yes, I went to the FBI. And the answer is what? Valasco.


So when I left in in Sydney, I went to I spoke to the whatever the equivalent of the FBI is here. I went to the Fair Work Ombudsman, whatever that's called. I spoke to the FBI for four hours straight.


And it says, give me the bottom line. Give me the bottom line. What are the authorities say? They seem to not give a shit like they seem to be horrified when you tell them, but it's like they're protected by religion. They I don't know, they have billions of dollars. It's it's like walking to a big wall and it's like like what's the answer to this? Yeah, exactly. But Mike, what can you add to that?


That's true. Well, and add to that that typically when someone goes and finally gets broken the chains of years and sometimes 10, 20 years later.


Yep, exactly what are they? It's usually after the statute of limitations has expired on whatever criminal act was that was perpetrated against them. Right. Usually.


And this is the problem that many law enforcement agencies have, is being able to have current victims, people who have current information, they freak out about. Well, this is old. And what if they've changed? And, you know, it doesn't matter that you tell them nothing ever changes in Scientology. Their their idea is you've got to have current evidence. And current evidence is really tough to come by because people are led to believe, just like I was like Volesky was like everybody that you've ever met who used to be in the Sea Org that.


What went on was it takes like years before you realized that there was anything wrong with it, right?


Like other than you think that that things were not good, you don't believe for a long time that the solution to any of it is to go to the FBI or law enforcement who have been in you've been indoctrinated into the idea that that is an evil act.


Right. But that is a horrible, terrible thing to do, which will destroy your fraternity.


So and the other than to the problem. Yeah.


And also, I was going to say that because of all of you leaving in the way that you have now, even more restrictions have been put on to each base. Right. The bases that could cause David Miscavige some trouble. Right. Those those areas where people are being held like the executives that are being held in Riverside County. Right. Golden Era Productions or like you're saying, the Freewinds. Right.


Or where Shelly Miscavige supposedly is an arrowhead, you know, now even now where you may have had people leaving those bases to go to a LensCrafters or to a Starbucks, they no longer allow that. When Valerie escaped, she escaped because they had actors coming on to this, you know, normal act, not not Scientology actors, you know, billion people coming onto the base. Well, they don't allow that anymore. They don't allow civilians to drive their cars onto the property anymore.


So they so now it's going to be even harder. I mean, people literally have to jump off the ship. People literally have to jump over a fence in Golden Era Productions and hopes that there's a passer by is there to save them. I mean, they have to go to extremes or they can simply do what they did in 1977 and conduct a raid. But, Mike, even then, you're saying somebody like you or somebody like Valasco, if the authorities came onto the property, your first instinct would be to lie, right?


There would be you would lie if they came to the engine room and saw me, like under a deck plate. Yeah, in a claustrophobic area. Cleaning. Yeah. I'd be like, oh, no, I want to be here. Like, even though inside I'd be like, help me get me out of here. Yes, but you can never say that. You know, the thing I want to say is like Mike and me, when we were in from very young, you don't have the external education.


I was not educated. I didn't know the laws even when I spoke to the FBI. Then you are human trafficking, unlike what I know. What I didn't know. I didn't know it was wrong. It didn't cross my mind that what they were doing was wrong. All I want is that I am selfish. I am all right. I'm not holding my wife right.


And so eventually in 2009, you had enough. You had met your husband, Chris, who you're still married to, and you had to get permission to marry him from the freeway.


No, I didn't. I didn't have permission. I did it behind my back and gotten. No, but you.


But you should have had permission to get married. Yes. Right. And so you and your husband, how did you eventually get out of the sewer?


Basically, what happened is I did something very minor that they considered really bad at that time. We were getting three hours of sleep a night because we were selling this the stupid books that Miscavige had repackaged, you know, the husband books. And I did something that was really stupid, but that was considered bad. So I was a long story short. I was escorted into this room by myself, put on 24 hour watch. That was a camera in front of my door.


I had to be escorted to the engine room every morning by security. I had to eat my meals in the engine room for fifteen minutes. I wasn't even allowed to eat in the control room because that was AC. I had to eat in the boiler room and I had to work in the engine room all day. My not it was like probably about twenty hours a day by myself. I wasn't allowed to work with anyone else. I wasn't allowed to talk to anyone.


There was one incident where I got stuck under the the plate because you have to go under pipes and stuff and I got stuck and I couldn't move. So I started hyperventilating and it took them about 45 minutes to an hour before an engineer found me like I think I was having a breakdown. I was just uncontrollably crying and hyperventilating and my legs were completely numb. I had to be carried out. I got yelled at for that. Because that was.


Showing emotions, basically, and then sent back down there, and then I ended up getting interrogated on the meter and this went on for three months and I got to the point where I was I actually wanted to kill myself. I didn't want to live anymore. Like, the whole thing of saving mankind didn't matter. And I feel that that's the breaking point for me. Wish and I don't know if this is real for Michael, not why it gets so bad that you don't care anymore.


You just you just want to save yourself. But so I didn't kill myself because I thought, well, the other person that did that, that was really bad. Public relations for the Freewinds and Scientology. And I didn't want to do that. And I thought maybe I'll get out of here. And I did eventually get sent to the RPF. In Australia, and after doing that for 11 months, I wrote a letter to David Miscavige saying that things were wrong and that I wrote a list of things on the Freewinds that I felt was wrong.


So I was considered to be like to have. Like bad thoughts about executives in Scientology and about the report. So you reported everything to Dave Miscavige of what was going on and they responded with your bad again and get sent back to the RPF in Los Angeles.


OK, so then I was like, no way.


And the RPF is like the prison camp, like, would you say for for bad Scientologists and for bedsore members.


Yeah. The thought reform program. OK, go ahead. Know, so they were going to send me back there to Los Angeles and I had married Chris and I said, no, no, I want to leave and I wanted to have kids anyway. So I secretly stopped taking the birth control pill and got pregnant and I refused to have an abortion. So it took me like.


So they tried to get you to have an abortion. Is that normal? This is normal for the Sea Org. Yeah.


And I said, no, I'm not. I'm not. And at that time, Mike and Martin was speaking out. Yeah. And I think the Hedley's had a case or they were speaking out so they couldn't push it as hard as they used to. Right. Because of that. Yeah, I was sneaking off because in Australia it's less like I could go to the library sites, knock off. Then I was reading, like, things that Mike had written and that Modie had written.


Mm hmm. Because I knew them and I they were never horrible to me all.


So I was like, how come all these executives that I respected and looked up to and. Were like decent to me, and now these big bad suppresses that didn't make sense to me and I knew what they were saying was true because I had experienced that, of course, anyways. But yes, I was pregnant. They didn't pay for any of my doctor's appointments, nothing. And I was sleeping, like on the bed without a mattress, just like springs.


And I started, like, bleeding and I ended up losing the baby. I had to catch a train to go to the doctor's office. And yeah, long story short, I had a miscarriage, which was horrible, but I didn't tell them because I was like, I want to get out and this is my way out. So I ended up finally getting out in September 2009. And you remained a Scientologist or where did you go, I mean, what so that we supposed to do so that was the most freeing moment in my entire life.


I felt so free and I went to Chris's mom's house and I and I started reading stuff right away on the Internet. And Chris's mom was a Scientologist or no, no way.


She's a Catholic and she hates Scientology, which was really helpful because I met normal people that were not Scientologists. And I was like I was like, wow, these are nice people. They always make them sound like all of the greatest people. And I was like this so much nicer than any single member I know. So that was like a real awakening for me. But yeah, I started reading stuff pretty immediately because I was never able to in the Sea Org, and it was never my choice to be a Scientologist.


It was forced on me. Oh, right, right, right. So yes, I started reading stuff and and I went to Florida because my mom was there and I met with Mike who thought I was like a spy.


Oh, really? I met him at that fish place. Yeah, but not real. Yeah. And then I also secretly started researching things about Harvard and I started realizing that that it was all a lie. Oh yeah. And he was like this pathetic psychopath, right? Narcissistic, insane guy, so you start rebuilding your life. Yeah, I know.


Yeah. And then because I had worked around David Miscavige and so had Chris Mallyon, Powell was calling us every day to try and he wanted Marion Powell. She's a woman that was on the call, that was an associate from a very young age and that always worked around David Miscavige when I was in the ceiling. And she was one of the people that was signed by David Miscavige to get these people that had left to not connect with Mike Rinder or Madill and to keep them controlled and as good Scientologists and not to speak out.




But then I was secretly went and saw my mom and I was working with Tom, divorced, and I didn't know. But there was a girl working with me who I didn't find out until you did. The aftermath showed that she was a spy. And somehow my dad knew I was there, so two weeks before I gave birth to Dannielynn, my dad disconnected from me and that was the final straw for me. Like I was I was a pregnant woman.


I was hormonal. And he sent me a text message disconnecting from me. And I was like, that's that. I went and sat down at my lunch time and my story and gave it to Marty Rathbun. And that was your official coming out and yeah, and of course, you know, all I was trying to do is get my family back together. So I was talking to Marion and I was trying to get my sisters declare and my mum's the credit cancelled and they were making it so difficult.


They are so arrogant or they have my mom.


Well, you didn't you didn't need their permission to be talking to your family, but you didn't still did not realize that yet. Right. Like that you didn't need any you just were trying to leave the way Scientology wanted you to leave. But she couldn't do that. Eventually you had to just kind of. Take the bull by the horns and go enough and take your life back. Yeah, it was just it was just too much, they just they couldn't they couldn't stop being abusive because it's Hubbert policy and they have to follow this policy no matter what.


They don't they don't have independent thought. And so they just continue the use. And it was just too much. And I was like, I have to do something about it. I can't I can't just sit here and allow this abuse to continue not only to me, but to other people. Right. Right, right. And yeah.


And that's when I was like, I have to speak out, because if we don't all speak out and say what we've experienced, it's never going to change because the authorities don't change it anyway. So unless everyone does something about it, it's not going to change. So I was like, I haven't I never had a family from the age of six anyway, so I'm going to lose my dad and my brother. But they were not in my life anyway, so.


Right. And and today you have a beautiful family.




I had to get an education. I had to go get my GED and then I have to like, do basic things that people take for granted. I had to get a bank account. I had to get a driver's license. I had to. Yeah, yeah, to build your life, so yeah, so today I have three beautiful boys and yeah, and they have lives which have nothing to do with Scientology and I never will. Yes. Yeah.


And yeah.


And you continue to speak out and can't thank you enough for doing that and continuing to do the work. Yeah, and I can't thank you enough as well and like. Well, we love speaking out. Thanks for speaking out. Yes, well, he's going to be stopping you.


Anyway, we cannot thank you enough or for your time. I know you've got to get your boys ready because they're getting up now very early where you are.


Yeah, they're all coming in my room, but. Yeah, yeah.


Well, thank you. Will ask. And and you're resilient and you're strong and you're all things that that Scientology did not teach you.


Thank you. Thank you for saying that.


Yes. All right. Until next time. Thank you guys for listening. And we'll watch. We'll talk next week. What do you say if I go.


Well, you'll hear us next hour. You'll you'll hear from us next week. Until then, thank you, guys.


Bye. I'm Robert Evans, host of Behind the Bastards, and if you're like me, you're probably worried right now, in part because of the fascist insurrection on January 6th in Washington, D.C. But what if I were to tell you that what happened in D.C. was just the latest in more than a century of fascist attempts to take over democratic governments, many of them successful, learn about the history of these insurrections and the history of anti fascist actions attempting to stop them.


When you listen to behind the insurrections on the I Heart radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, Lancaster, South Carolina is in the middle of not much, but growing up nearby, I knew it as the hometown of a black man named Jim Duncan, who became a Super Bowl hero after the best day of my life. Now my new podcasts return man. I'll discover that his death still makes no sense at all.


The story was that my brother went into the police station, took a gun off a police officer and shot himself in the head. Most people don't believe that. For the past three years at the Rock Hill Herald, I looked back at a story that's timelier than ever breaking down. So have you got some time to talk?


It involves race, the mental state of the person and a child that was scared to death.


The safe return man coming January 26 on the I Heart radio Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. If you took away the date and time, could you imagine that happening today? Yes, you can.