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You are listening to the Darina lead show. I'm Daryn. I've spent the last 15 years exploring the planet, looking for healthy foods, superfoods, environmental solutions, and I've had my mind blown along the way by the people, the far off places I have been and the life altering events that have changed my life forever. My goal is to help you dive deep into some of the issues of our modern day life, society's fatal conveniences, the things that we do that we're indoctrinated into thinking we have to, even though those things are negatively affecting us and in some cases slowly destroying us and even killing us every week.


I have honest conversations with people that inspire me. My hope is, through their knowledge and unique perspectives, they'll inspire you two together. We'll explore how you can make small tweaks in your life that amount to big changes for you, the people around you and the planet. So let's do this. This is my show, The Derrinallum Show. Hey, what's up, everybody? How's it going? Welcome to my podcast, super stoked, you hear?


Well, hey, by the time you're hearing this, my Netflix show Down to Earth with me and Zac Efron has launched and we are so stoked that it's being so well received. It's been a year in the making, three and a half months around the world. And it was always based in the mission, driven by us coming together, running around the world. And Zach was fully engaged and stoked to be involved. Not a lot of people know that.


When Zach reached out to me for the first time, he heard me on the Rich Role podcast. And that's what got us connected. I told them my ideas. He said he had a Netflix show that he didn't want to do. And we retrofitted it with this new idea that I brought to him. And bam, we ran around the world and created this show, so stoked that everyone's receiving it so well. That being said, my next guest, my very good friend, one of the coolest, sweetest, intellectual, kindest, beautiful people in the world, Neil Strauss.


So if you haven't heard of Neil, you're probably under a rock. And because Neil is one of the is one of the most talented writers, New York Times best seller, he worked for Rolling Stone Forever, New York Times. He has written several books for other people, but he's also written himself the game. You remember that it's around 10 year anniversary where it was this pick up artist kind of deal, but that also that journey brought him to his next incredible book called The Truth.


You know, it's kind of like whatever he decides to do, he's just great at it. His next biggest thing was this crime mystery that he literally got involved with because he cared and then he just started recording it. And in that process, he started beating, almost being a lead investigator. And this podcast became last year the top podcasts on the planet to live and die in L.A. So if you haven't heard that, it's riveting. It's incredible.


He's now moving on to his next podcast, putting that together as we speak. Now, I just want to also say that I recorded this months ago with Neil. So it's not current in terms of the pandemic and all of the crazy things that have gone on. So this is an intimate sitting down with two friends. So you're going to get to hear things in Neil's life, his insights. He's incredibly articulate and powerful around self healing outlook on life.


He's always working to better himself and put that information out there for no further ado. I want you to strap in, hunker down, have fun and listen to our conversation with the powerful, the master, Neil Strauss. I'm stoked because, number one, you're one of my best friends. I see you a lot and you're also one of the most interesting and you're dedicated and committed to what you're doing almost in every every lane that you're in. That's pretty phenomenal to see.


You have success in those ways. And I and I resonate with your commitment and your ability to do that.


I'm really excited for people to understand some of what you do. I'm in awe of your business savvy and your ability to put attention on things and get it done.


But I guess and by the way, I would say that's really nice what you're saying right now, because we have the type of friendship, which is a real friendship, where we're really just saying how we can look at each other and saying how we can be better and how we can do better. So we're usually looking at the things that we can work on versus giving each other acknowledgement for the amazing things that we both have done. Because usually our conversation is, oh, I see you're stuck there.


Here's a here's a suggestion on how to get unstuck. So it's actually nice to sit back and be like, oh, shit. Yeah, you and I have done some amazing things. Right. It's nice to it's nice to have that discussion to which I think is a real friendship. A lot of to me, the sign of a real friendship is can you give someone constructive feedback or there's a word for it, unconditional, positive regard. There you go.


If someone needs an additional positive regarding a relationship, always being told that they're great and they're doing well and hearing what they want to hear, it's not a real friendship and it's not very advantageous for the person.


Yeah, well, like Neal and I are in a group of rad guys and successful people, but we literally are there to show and expose what's going on in our lives.


And we're all listening for the places in the cracks that could be mended and helped. And so taking feedback readjusting is so. So that's the context for Neal's comment is because we're not often in this situation, although there's mutual respect, we don't sit there and necessarily complement each other in a conscious way other than sometimes seeing the flaws and sometimes we get into it.


And by the way, whatever it is referring to and I really recommend this is sort of a if that's OK to share that sort of at some point we realize we're in similar situations in our personal lives. And so we're a bunch of people sort of our age. And I read studies and group therapy versus one on one therapy. And that group therapy works better than one on one therapy because you can just disagree with a therapist. You know, I know you realize you have credentials and experience, but I just have a different point of view.


You're one person. There's a point of view, and especially if your defenses are up because you have a.


Pattern, yes, that you've had for a long time, and we all know everyone listening knows that, you know, you've come to a situation where you've been presented with someone giving you feedback and you want to get defensive. All of us do. Yeah.


One of one of the biggest signs of addiction is when someone gets angry, when you call them an addict like that, you know what they're angry about. Like, if you call me an alcoholic, I would get angry because I don't really drink. But if you call that alcoholic an alcoholic, they get mad and defensive and want to talk to you anymore. It's a good sign of that. And the point we're making is that so if you're in and in group therapy, it's not just the therapist, but maybe four or five people who know you intimately, even if you disagree about all five, are saying the exact same thing.


You kind of got to say it. Well, I disagree, but there's probably something to what you're all seeing. So we put this group together and I mention it only because, like, I recommend doing it with a therapist. It can't just be five friends. You need someone who is is a referee for healthy emotional intelligence and and keeps you from going off track. And then together, we really hold up a mirror to each other every week.


Sometimes it's like not a pretty one. Yeah.


And then to that, the longevity of that. Now we're years in. And so if you think that that's comfortable to have everyone have a bead on your patterns, because now we see them like that was a year and a half ago, you're doing that shit and you're still doing it now. And like there's no hiding much at all. And we can predict that.


And I can and I hope this is this is is relevant because I just think it's important that everybody has people, their lives who can hold up an honest mirror to themselves. And they recognize that as a gift. But you can if you do this long enough, you can predict people's future. You can predict in the same way that if I know how somebody was raised by the parents of the of the sex they're attracted to, I'll know what the relationships are like.


You can just predict it. So the point being is, as individuals, we are programmed by our early life experiences. And then we we don't get conscious. We just live out of that program and repeat it to the degree that people in their derubeis group, they'll be like this just happen. And we can see that we can see their future for a year if they don't change their autopilot responses. Yes.


And that's something that it takes courage to step into that fire. And we've had a couple of situations where people took off, they quit and they came around because there was so confronting. But we're doing it, like you said, we have a counselor there. And it's and it's in a healthy way. But I know, you know, whatever degree you've gotten there, that investigating yourself is, I think, the keys to liberation of living truly a happy life, or else you're just living to the degree at which you're able to be aware of your patterns and pain and fear and be kind of run by those things.


And so I'm just not interested in that.


It's so true. In fact, I just thought of this. You were saying it, but like every era of wisdom, tradition all says the same thing. Like whether it's, you know thyself, you know, Socrates, the unexamined life is not worth living, whether it's young saying until we make the unconscious conscious, it will rule our life and we will call it fate. Like every wisdom, tradition says the same thing, which is like give yourself the gift of knowing yourself.


And going back to what we're saying is I talked to a lot of people who are like, oh, yeah, I do a lot of reading. I do a lot of books. That's the work I do on myself. But you can't know yourself, too. You can see yourself from the outside. And that only happens through trusted other people who support you, not through seeing yourself on the outside, by people tweeting at you on Twitter or jealous people trying to take you down, but through through having a family of choice.


And you can't do with your family either because all your issues came through the family that's you're looking in the year, you're still you're still inside the system. But you need that family of choice. Let's say, you know, the family of origin, the family you're born with in the family of choice that you choose to see yourself. We're doing kind of workshops or doing something. But it's so hard. I think, like I don't know anyone who succeeded in seeing themselves from the outside.


It's like you're it's like a you're programmed computer. Your brain again, the programming you can't see your own programming tilts reflected back from the outside because you grew up in your own childhood. Everyone thinks no matter what happened, it's hard to see another child who are brainwashed for 17 years or eighteen years. There's a therapy that I love that did a lot for me called post induction therapy. And the philosophy of it is that your first seventeen or eighteen years are a hypnotic induction.


You're being hypnotized to, you know, into a certain way, into a certain full force, force, force, false reality. And the posthypnotic induction zaidee that we're on hypnotizing you from. 17 year old 17 year cult you've been living in, and it is a cult, you, I believe.


Yeah, I believe this is this is why and this is what and you do this and I'm the parents and the mom and dad and the whole thing. And if you don't do it, you go to your room and it's like it's kind of crazy and it's very much like that. And, you know, we all know that repeated patterns over time become habits.


And so now if you're you know, and this isn't it's a strong word cult, but it's actually if you actually break it down, you don't have much of a choice, because at a young age, if you take off, you're in danger. You can't survive.


And so you have to, out of survival, adopt mechanisms to survive. And you're a little microcosm. Yes. And those patterns are the things that you ultimately have to circle back around in life to break. Yes. So that you can then see who you really are, not what's been imposed upon you.


Right. And so the crazy that happens in life is we use those adaptive patterns. You were just saying and we're still treating everybody like our like they're still our parents and using these adaptive patterns that allowed us to survive these childhood and early adolescent experiences. And then we just sort of are so trained to do them that we project them in the world. I mean, is a simple example. I always like if I'm dating someone, I always find out what their relationship with their parents were like, especially in my case, with with and with their father.


So how would you do that? So and I always am. And I'll find a certain parenting type that will be attracted to me because of my relationship with my mom. It's a weird it's this weird unconscious. It's like you see the Matrix once you understand the weird unconscious patterns were running like somebody who how would I do it in conversation or what's the how would you start to discover that?


Or would you consciously go out and go, I got to know where they're from and what. Yeah.


Long time you're talking about your life intelligence. Yeah. How are you. What's your mom like. Usually that usually you can sort of backward engineer it. So someone's talking about the relationships, they're talking about the relationships. For example, you'll find out they'll say what their last relationship went wrong or whatever. And by figuring out these are some clues, I'm leaving some big clues here. OK, so so if they're like, oh, yeah, I just felt like trapped in a relationship, I felt like I couldn't I just I felt trapped.


I wasn't happy. I wanted to get out. What that usually means is. There they were trapped by a parent growing up in the sense that they had what's called enmeshment, which most people don't know but obviously know. And so but enmeshment is the idea that a parent must take care of a child's needs. But when a child takes care of a parents needs, that's enmeshment. Like your your your parents depressed and trying to cheer them up. They have a lot of anxiety and they're super controlling of you.


They they come to you for advice. Maybe they're at and have an addiction problem. You're trying to save them or help them.


And oftentimes the partner, their relationship is strained, right? Yeah. So so so that enmeshment or that love kind of or that saved or that whatever they're lacking or need need to cultivate, they project it on the child.


Right. Right. Yeah. And it takes a bit to unpack that a little bit because it's subtle and you see because you're so used to it as your operating system and it's falsely empowering meeting that abuse, you know, neglect there something not being there is disempowering.


It's easy to see. While they were they were never there for me. They were never around for me. They, you know, struck me. They did these things. But this is falsely empowering. You feel special. You know, it almost feels good. It's like, oh, I'm Mommy's little man or daddy's little girl or whatever it is. And that feels good. They coming to me. They're trusting me. It felt good. I felt, oh, wow.


My mom's trusting me with adult stuff. In fact, I was doing there was a makeup artist who was doing work on me and she was talking about her relationships and she was saying things like what I said earlier. I just felt trapped. I thought I needed to sort of move on. Like, I'm curious, what was were you really close with your dad growing up? Like, were you sort of like, you know, special in his eyes?


And she rolls up her sleeve and she has a tattoo that says Daddy's girl? I'm like, wow. Let me tell you about why your relationships aren't working out, because what happens is you lose your childhood, taking care of your parents. And then as soon as somebody gets needy in a relationship, you just want to you just want to back away from it. Like it just feels suffocated. It's so interesting. We, you know, again, like we these I mean, that's a good example of being unconscious about it, that that felt like who they are.


And then the opposite side is obviously somebody who had a parent that, you know, wasn't there for them either physically or emotionally there. And generally, they're the ones who pick the unavailable partners. You know, you can usually tell, again, unless they've done the work on themselves and often they'll pick someone who's unavailable. We just replicate these things. Or I was talking to someone the other day who has been divorced a few times and their parent there, they had sort of an angry, you know, angry father.


They weren't so physically abusive, emotionally abusive. And then they choose these traumatic relationships because they don't know what love is if there's not conflict in it. Right. You know, there's a word called trauma bonding and trauma bonding is like and I had this for sure, where you pick where you're loyal to people who aren't good for you. It's fascinating, right? Like that. We go out and we do things that are not in our own best interests.


And by the way, it's a sign I think if I was to think about it, we're just sort of do a detective work on herself. It's like when do you act in a way that's not in your best interests? That's where the trauma is. That's where the you know, the richness to mine is to become a better person.


Where do people start if they're like, you know what, my life is just hasn't been going well for five or ten years. Where do I start?


Because, of course, the easy answers are, you know, hey, man, meditate, lower your stress, eat better.


And all of those things are true. There's a truth to that. But it also feels like, yeah, man, but it sucks now. Right. And meditating, I don't feel like what's the steps kind of reverse engineering, all of what you've gone into.


And I want to start getting into some of that the the amazing books and the psychological books and maybe take a different angle looking at some of the writings you've you've done. But what are some of the things that you think a place where people can start to self investigate and uncork and uncover to discover more of themselves, too? Ultimately what? Create more freedom, more possibility, more happiness, more joy?


Yeah, I can give you what I think is the formula. OK, so the formula is like three parts. Part one is doing a multiple day workshop. We are really going to be a little bit of an emotional mess.


Right. Immersed in an immersive emotional. Workshop, psychological workshop experience, I can recommend like a few that I think are good, that got range from free to costly, right? All all good. I mean, it could be I just did something called the Hofman Experience Man, which I recommend the survivors program with the Meadow's is good. I do one, you know, once a year. And then there's I haven't done this to society in society yet, but I do it once a year.


And it's basically and I bring in all the people who have been teachers to me because I like to give that it's for me. And then the fourth one is I haven't done this one, but I think but I know it's free and certainly a place to start of a pasada. Yeah.


Which we to be the one I haven't the closest. I've done some retreats to the closing ideas and the a week long immersive finishing up my psychology program and the end of the second year and we just. Jammed in and screamed and hit pillows and counseling sessions for three days. So so do one of them again, because four percent is passengers freed, probably half. And process is the most expensive to just commit to something. And again, one might say, well, that's a lot of money, but think about all the money.


It's really an investment, the way schools investment, because you're paying to get out of your own fucking way so you could kind of live your best life it for sure. If I think about I probably spent a lot of my income on improving myself and it's been the best, best benchmark forms.


Another. Yeah, it's a little there's some that. But yeah, just the thoughts just would be just straight up, Frank, about like the post-test school of stuff which is landmark. And then there was one called Lifespring that split into a thousand things with 100 different names. But it's all the same things. You'll know it because there's a three part thing. These are first of all, they're really great immersive group workshops one. But two is there's an insecurity manipulation baked into the system.


Yes. That involves turning the students into it. It survives by if each student recruits multiple soldiers the next phase, whereas HOPPEN process, I was worried about HOPPEN process. They just they're secure enough to say we're great and people will tell their friends about it. They love it. Whereas this one is truly manipulative in the sense that they teach you things in level one. Then level three are like psychological triggers they can pull later. Right. It's great.


It's crazy. I really never understood how brainwashing worked. I went through all three levels and the first one I thought was amazing. I told all my friends about it just naturally. The second one I brought like groups. I probably brought hundreds of people there. Then the third one, when they started pulling all the psychological triggers to make us do it, I just pull the reins and said, oh shit like this. I did the same thing with those guys.


I was like, I turned it on again. I turned every thing and phrase they're using against me. I'm like, well, you're using that to manipulate me. And I'm good. I'm not out of integrity. I'm in full integrity right now. They use integrity against you and all that stuff, what they did.


And it's so I mean, they're so smart in the system. I was recommending doing it to understand how brainwashing works because the system is designed so that everybody in it, including the people leading it, are all working for the system. No one has malicious intent. It's like the way the system is designed, which is probably interesting to look at other systems. But back to the three prongs. So prong one is just a deep, immersive workshop where you have an emotional experience.


The point being taught, people go to talk therapy first. I think that's wrong. And the reason I think that's wrong is because the trauma didn't come in intellectually. It came in emotionally when you're really young, came in emotionally, intellectually. We understand these things. Right. But it's emotional. So you really need to hit it on a deeper level.


You need to get at what the trauma was. You need to unpack that. You need to forgive yourself. Ultimately, you need to forgive them. You need to go through some sort of emotional release and forgiveness so that you can move forward or else you're stuck about it.


And then what happens after every workshop or seminar? You get the high afterwards, like, oh, my God, yes, I'm going home. My relationships are really great. I'm going to my fucking career is going to be I'm going to be in my passion. And I feel so good about myself. I'm connected to my spiritual high yourself. I told them. Right. You know, then you walk in your door and your partner, your roommate or whatever it is, it's like, oh, you're doing that stupid shit.


And then all of a sudden you check your email and you check your phone and you go to work and three weeks later you're back in the shit. So tool to step two is maintenance, such as the group therapy thing that Darren and I talked about. Here's where maybe one on one therapy comes in feeling something where every week you get your head screwed on. Right. You know, it's just like, oh, no, you're doing that thing that's coming out of your trauma, not out of your health yourself.


So then one is the shift. Two is the maintenance of the ship. So I think talk therapy is helpful in terms of maintaining the change. So the third thing then is the tools to use on your own. Yes. So, for example, what you just said earlier before you make a decision at all would be. To be white in the space between the stimulus and the response, so you can ensure that's not a reaction, right. So white in the space between what happens and how you react so you can respond instead of reacting.


And the reaction comes out of usually out of a place of trauma, fear, past programming, where the response is like the healthy right way to address the situation. So something happens at work or in your relationship or a big decision. And then maybe instead of answering right away on the phone or in person, say, give me a moment and then you ask yourself the question. You beautifully said earlier, you know, what would I do if I loved fully loved myself?


How I respond, I fully love myself. And that answer might be different. So much better than saying I'm not going to respond out of fear because it's almost programming fear in your brain because of that.


Because. Yeah, because if you're reacting, you're literally now in that moment reacting to this past. Right. And you're emotional. Right. So you can't you're not thinking clearly. You're not. You can't you're coming out of a emotional reaction from that past.


So this new moment that you have and I love that creating space, this new moment, you're now plaguing it with the reaction and the emotion of all of us and just perpetrating that kind of unconsciousness.


And it's interesting, like I think this is an insight I just had about myself, which is a I in my childhood, love was conditional, like 100 percent. If I didn't follow the rules, love would be withdrawn. Their parents. Yeah, my parents like to give me that. I would just be completely cut off and follow the rules. And so I'm afraid that if I maybe so how that manifests as an adult is if I say no or if I'm not like agreeable to everything, that I'll lose a relationship with someone or I lose an opportunity.


And so to use what you're just saying is maybe I get it. I'll just be totally frank, which is like I do part of what I do as books with celebrities. And you write their book. I write their books. Yeah. Which is funny because it's just great to step into another. The empathy that I had that I learned from my enmeshment with my mom. It all comes back together, allows me the empathy with these sort of, you know, interesting, flawed, beautiful, larger than life characters.


But what also happens is you end up chasing them around the world. Let's just say they have less respect for people's time than they do for their own. And they're very busy. I get that. But so what happens is I might commit and then I'm literally on the road with someone for weeks for for a few hours of time, very inefficiently. Very inefficient of time. Yeah. And I just think, oh, if I don't say yes, they're going to I don't know, regret having done the book with me, not say I think those things.


So I'm actually just thinking, using your lesson to actually say well if I love myself what I would do is I would set boundaries around my time and respect my time as much as they respect theirs and probably say, well, here's my hours of availability versus just when you need me, you're the busy big star. So it's interesting, even discussing you, sharing any tool actually helps me live my life better.


And I challenge everyone to ask that question. When you're when you're even when you're eating, when you're sitting down and eating, if you truly loved yourself, would you eat this way?


Would you eat like this or do you? It's not true because so many people eat for love like I so many people. I have a friend who their parents instead never said, I love you, but they would just feed them all the time and and they express their love through cooking. And so this person, whatever, they are having a hard time or they're triggered. And it took a while to realize that they just go eat like they eat the love.


I'm going to get the love. But if you love yourself, you don't need to get it from food or drugs or sex or from the outside at another point back.


And what you're saying about giving your time, I had in my in my head, I wanted everyone coming to the door for my my podcast just because and when your assistant called said, hey, Neil's got time and like like, fuck, we're not going to do it. And then I literally was in that same exercise. I'm like. She is creating a structure to valuing his time to maximize our time, right, and your structure around that. With this solid, but it's and then I had I just let go of the gives a shit cool to be different for the people different, you know.


But now with what you just said about a perceived celebrity, you just threw all that out with potentially doing that, traveling around the world.


That is also not the fame. It's the power relationship in the sense that they're paying me to do the job. So I'm sort of feel like I'm being paid to do a job for them. Right. There's that kind of power relationship. Yeah. I'm not paying you. Yea yea. Yea yea. No problem. Yet you're waiting for you to finish your work. Your sister came out and said I'll just be one more hour away.


But that's interesting. And I was going to share one of the great one tool that I use. That's really good, but it's almost hard to explain. But it's interesting. You recommended a meditation on that. I didn't do that program I signed up for and didn't do it. Um, but but I do a reparenting thing with myself. And for example and again, it's this all ties back to our earlier discussion of enmeshment, me being enmeshed by my mom when I'm in a relationship and someone is very like overly affectionate with me, I start to feel like my skin crawl.


I feel like, oh, my God, I got to escape. I got to get out, even though they're really just expressing love and affection. And so what I'll do is reparenting means reparenting means being the parent to yourself you needed, not the parent that you had. Right. So most people, the care that they had of themselves, you know, I'm not good enough. I got I got to work harder. I mess this up.


You know, you people talk themselves in ways that if a stranger talked to them or even a friend talked to them like that, they would be pissed. But they treat themselves like that because they internalize a negative parent. But what was what with a great parent do? Right. So what I'll do is so being the good parent yourself is reparenting yourself and then you can literally have a script, because what happens is when you're in a situation that reminds you of your past, you emotionally regress and then the child comes out with either the defensive reaction or the opposite, a boundaryless reaction where they just take it in.


And what I'll do is I'll tell in this case, little Neil, you know, so when Ingrid, my former wife, would sort of hug me and be overly sort of demonstrative with her affections as my skin would start to crawl and I'd just be like, hey, little girl, she's she's not your mom. She loves you. She just wants to be connected with you. She's not trying to use your mom did. So calm down. I got this.


She's just showing her love and affection connection. Let's connect. So I literally just sort of lovingly repair it. The child when the child gets agitated.


So you almost had like a ceiling on the amount of love you could receive. And then once if you were given more than you were used to, it just would make you feel so weird because that's the barometer that you had, because love wasn't love, love that I need something from you, from it.


And it was training. And so we had had it had some tentacles to it. And I didn't know when or where or how that she was going to drop.


Right. But when you felt feel what you felt, it was connected to something that wasn't necessarily unconditional. Yes. And it was conditioned. Yeah. And it's interesting because the flip side of that is people who are well, I'm afraid to some people, people are afraid to be vulnerable, intimate for so many reasons. Then I think when someone thinks I'm afraid that I'll be abandoned, I'm afraid that person will leave me and I'll be hurt. It's like if you feel like if you fall in love and that you are so afraid of the hurt, if you're wrong about the person, you're probably not ready for love.


Meaning that a great a really wise person said this to me, which is I'm just not using your name because I think she didn't want her name used. But it's she said the only people who can be abandoned are young children and dependent elders. If you're an adult, no one can bet benefit yourself. Like literally, you're going to be fine on your own. So. So, yes, if you're give someone trust and they betray that trust or you give them all of yourself and they leave you for somebody else, that's going to hurt.


It's going to hurt. But like, if you feel like you can't survive it, feel like it's going to really destroy you, that you need to do some work before choosing to be in love. Literally, if I'm on a date and somebody has so much fear about trust, I'm like, oh, you know, you're probably not ready, right? Like, they're really not ready.


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Daryn D. a. r.. I and I know you will enjoy. The hardest thing in the world to do is when you're with yourself every day and you're not being observed and you're living your life, how can you be diligent about living the life of truth and honesty and awareness and consciousness? So that you can have the life that we truly want. I'm not talking about the things and the bling and all of that stuff, but that's part of that can be an absolutely can be a part of it.


I have no problem with that stuff, but I think.


The hardest thing in the world is when the lights are off and you're home alone and staring at yourself in the mirror and you're doing your thing, and a day goes by and it's it's the tools that you're using every day of every interaction.


And we always fail because we do have this tendency to project, you know, we meet someone right away. Even people are meeting online. They're like, that's the one. That's the one who's going to be all these things. And, you know, the business relationship that's going to be the one that's going to make me this. You know, this they have this huge impact on the world. They're, you know, even even people tweeting like political nonsense when they're not kind of politically, you know, engaged like this tweet is going to really have an effect.


And, you know, we sort of live in this sort of this world of magical thinking. And and I think there's also a human nature to forget the pain once we survive it and then go on to hope because it just keeps us going. But I think the simple answer is to let go of the outcome 100 percent. I think what happens is in the works stuff, you get filled with a vision, you get really attached to that vision, and then you sort of work to make that outcome happen and stay with a relationship or that conversation.


Where is this going? If this isn't going anywhere? I don't want to be part of this relationship. It's like, well, forget where it's going. Where is it? Are you enjoying where it is? Let's be in the business of it. So I think the same thing goes for everything else is like we are not looking at the present because we're so attached to the outcome. And and and I would say tell like somebody emailed me on Instagram the other day and they were talking about their relationship and they were saying, you know, I just don't know if I can be with them forever.


I'm like, you don't have to be with them forever. There's no rule that says just like just can you choose the person in each moment just to I choose you now? Yes. Move out in the next moment you're choosing and move on to the next moment. And same with these partnerships that the two sides to it. One is, am I enjoying what I'm doing? Like it should be such your work should be such that you don't get the outcome you want.


That was still worth each moment of it. And that's a decision to make. And the second one is. Having an easy out like because I think I know very few partnerships that have worked like and of somebody, it's just hard. It's a business partnership can be harder than a relationship in a sense, because if you're not married, you can just get out of the relationship, whereas a business partnership can get really difficult and ugly. And I really made the decision.


I've had a couple of business partners where I just said, you know what, I'd rather just hire someone for more money than be in a partnership. Somebody always need to be in the partnership because they want someone else there. This is a, you know, odd advice coming. But the fact is relationships are hard and they're not easy and they can get in the way of the business. And why not just hire someone amazing? You can keep, you know, and highly incentivized and you can get to all sorts of things, but really just let go of it's not working.


Continue to make your dream or vision come.


I'm a big fan of that technique. I think I want to move in that direction. Let's talk about it, because there is something also to commitment, right?


You know, there is something to.


Whether it's installed on my part or that there's something with I'm I am committing to you, let's say all of the things line up in this moment and I'm like, you know, we can say marriage, but let's say some sort of formal commitment to this person.


And I think. It does shift something that there is something that that moves differently for sure, and it can drive deeper and cultivate more and have all issues that maybe never even percolated up until that moment.


But the difference between the in your analogy between marriage and the business relationship. His marriage usually dated for a year, at least, you know, normally, you know, you probably maybe, maybe even lived together for a while and you're making an informed decision for him to maybe a business relationship, not even if you've known the person for years. But if you work with them for years, then it would make more sense versus we've had a few meetings.


I really believe in your vision. I feel like we get along. You don't know the person, so you're getting married. It's almost like an arranged marriage. You're getting married. You're doing one of those Hollywood things where they get married in Vegas after dating for three weeks and then they get divorced three months later. So that so I think the metaphor is perfect because it isn't accurate because you haven't worked to the person for a while. So maybe there's that too, is say, hey, I really want to do this, but I think one of us should hire the other, whoever's vision it is.


And then after a year, if we feel really good, let's just escalate this relationship. And Stephanie Coontz is book Marriage a History. She talks about we're in this mix and match place. You no longer have to be married, have kids. You don't have to you can be married or not have kids. You can, you know, create any kind of situation. You want to just mix and match what works for you. So the point being is you can still have it can be a great father and not be married.


You can make those things work for yourself. Yeah.


I don't know if the you know, I don't know if I've adopted this idea on one reason not to, and that is the state of the world. So there's two fold to that. For me, the state of the world is I feel like I really want to scratch the surface that helping this planet and moreover, helping us on this planet deal with this situation.


I mean, two notes on that one note is. That your child and you raising that child and that child, going on to the generational generations of being healthily parented here could be a bigger impact on the world. Secondly is that there's a great book I read by Otto Friedrich, I think about the end of the world. First of all, recognize that the news exists by making us think the world's going to end every day. I mean, go back to where the fall of Rome, the black you know, the black plague, you know, go to the world or to work or to, like, go to like, you know, the world is always about to end, you know, it's always about to end when one day it will.


But the world won't end. Just people will world be fun, people will end and the atmosphere and the world will be different. Just we see the world. But the point being is it's just a certain way of looking at the world that it's always on the brink of destruction. You know, the Cold War, it's always on the brink of destruction. But I think you choosing to to to generate in this positive way. I mean, again, there are some people who should not be parents who have kids who are horrible, know who are horrible to their children and that horrible role models and and and are raising more really hurt people.


I mean, I think that's a super positive thing for the world. And and and you can say what you're saying at any point in history. And again, the news and the Hoffmann process as a way for a week, I came back in front of and said, oh, you missed World War for World War Three. I I'm like, what happened? It's like, oh, we almost had World War Three with Iran that we didn't like.


So I missed nothing. The world is the same, right? Literally. I missed a whole fear cycle while I was gone. Bingo. You know, and if it's Iran, it's North Korea. As soon as we one thing goes away, the new thing pops up. Like, it's just, you know, we're always you know, I can only say we're maybe always in this homeostasis with our own destruction for sure.


You're in chaos and then there's some sort of reprieve and then chaos again. And it just ebbs and flows and and it's kind of all the way down to the cells.


We're kind of doing that.


And maybe your grandchild will be the one who saves the world. You don't know. You really don't know. So so you're going to give the other reason. So we got rid of that one.


Well, well, well, I guess that there's a little you know, it's like one of those things where I need to I'm starting to investigate that which did I adopt that as a point of view to keep myself from having to to receiving the potential that I actually want one, because it's a convenient one?


Well, the world the state of affairs is like, is that really how I operate any part of my life now? I'm always like, you know what? In Africa, these kids don't have clean water. You know what I fucking did? I got filters and stuff and I got them clean water in five minutes. Exactly. You know, it's like and I've always felt like we can do this. We as people and and us and and so, so I've been running around with a bit of that part of the idea that this is a reason why I'm not.


And I have I've I've got kids I have kids in my life that I support and I love. And I saw born and I got that check off the box.


I saw I saw these kids born that I love and I take care of in many ways. And those are all justifications. And it was just this week. It's funny that you're even asking this.


Just this week, it started popping into my head. And again, if everyone knows, like I'm living in a year, like I lost my house, like I'm nothing there's nothing more stable than it was. But I don't have a girlfriend who got divorced and end of twenty eighteen and but it's interesting and it's it's a very interesting thing. And and I think Norway had a little bit of a, you know, seeing a land. And I've traveled and many countries around the world and it's the first time I was actually there were lineage was of mine and then my surrogate child dog.


You know, I was thinking that, too, the way you are with Chagga, your dog like the love and the care and the way you your heart connection with childhood also is it's opened up something.


I think my dogs are fall. Yeah. No, I always think that actually a dog is sometimes a precondition for that sort of trial run, even though it's different. And I think I think the other reason maybe you have a knack for getting so personal here. But I think maybe the other reason, too, is that you have a high degree of independence, a high degree of control over your environment and talking about the chaos in the world. That child is a replication of the chaos in the world.


In your own home, you know, it is emergency every every moment. You know, you can't go in a straight line, like literally rush hour where the house, you know, everything OK? Anything cool? We get in the car, get on the freeway, jam packed. I have to go potty, like, right now.


Yeah, but I asked you here if you're a fine party emergency, I really got to go like, OK. You know, so so it's like you can't you don't move in a straight line once you have young children there, but it's also amazing and it's interesting when I where I'm at now is earlier what I said about the business partnerships and marriages, which is like to have no, I have I'm not attached to any outcome. I'm not attached to avoiding any outcome of dating, being that if back the connection is right for, you know, marriage in children is great.


And if I that connection isn't there. Great, too, and if it's whatever it is, whether it's a friendship, a sexual relationship, you know, marriage and kids for the rest of your life, like I'm really just open to whatever the relationship between two people creates, which I was in before marriage. Kids I sort of like in the back of my mind, knew I wanted to start a family and have a child and be a father.


And and now I literally have no. No agenda. I think I think letting go of the sexual part of that agenda, like in other words, like because of doing the game and because of the way I was raised and because to me, like, I would go to sex for validation, letting go of that. Piece of it feels like the final piece to sort of freedom, right? And obviously Neil's referring to the game, the book that he spent a lot of time and understanding the art of of.


I mean, there's so much psychology involved in that. And it's and having recently, again, kind of listen to the book. I think it's such an amazing book. And such an incredible story as to almost like the psychological triggers and and aspects of creating its own, how you use the tools that you have and then the in every situation.


But I would I would I would love to have asked Neil of that time, where is he coming out of in the writing of this book? Like who? Like, are you loving yourself in that? And then and then from that I want to hear him because you're evolution. And then writing the truth was the evolution of almost the person that may have still had some of these addictions going on during the game, but doesn't undermine the beautiful book of the game, because I think there's a lot of amazing aspects of the game again, and how you use the tools, it's up to you.


But the truth is a very vulnerable again, you write.


So if anyone hasn't read Neil's books for me, he writes in such a way that I feel like I'm watching a movie. And for me, the way my brain works, it just feels so much easier to read your stuff because of that. So the truth is a beautiful exploration.


So it's by the way, the reason that is, I think, is going back to what we said earlier at the beginning, the podcast about being to see yourself from the outside, like, I don't think anything special because it happened to me. You know, people want to tell their story is special. I'm like, well, I assume that nobody fucking cares because it's not about that. Right. And so so I really go try to write the book from the perspective that nobody cares.


Nobody gives a shit. Doesn't matter. How do you really. Talk about this in a way that's interesting to somebody else, so it's almost like really putting yourself in the it's an empathy thing again, putting yourself in the shoes of someone else who's picked up something. Their time is valuable. How are you going to make it really worth their time?


Yeah, and that kind of explains. It's like you're not in your writing. You're not coming out of. I'm I'm I'm going to write this book you really. Because the way you investigate and immerse yourself into the subject and allow us to be a fly on the wall or be a traveler with you. That is transcendent, I think. In a way of delivering information, and I think, again, the the the podcasts that you've won awards on, that you just did the very first one, you did cut all these awards.


But it's that same technology of how you. Share and tell a story and deliver that is so riveting, hey, guys, he's written a movie, he's working on TV shows.


I mean, there's a reason for that. And it's because I think your ability to drop all of almost all of your ego about it and just really tell a story in a way that. Is deliverable from a place that is authentic to the story, to the to the subject matter. Yeah, and I think we learned through storytelling, I think like we want to listen to podcast and get the data or read people read only nonfiction or advice or books, but the human being learns through.


We learn through metaphor. Those were the first storytelling, the first, you know, the first the the all the great texts. And we learned through metaphore and through storytelling, that's how it really sinks in. That's what we storytellers, human beings. So I feel like the things the learning is way more powerful when you learn it through a reader, through a story. That's why I love literature, like literature. To me, it's almost all I read is somebody trying to figure out how the world works through these kind of characters that are metaphors for that and not saying this is how it is.


And here's a five bullet points to to have a healthier life. They're just saying, well, we're just trying to figure out is what you were saying earlier. Like, you know, this is a safe world to have a child in in that decision making. Imagine like a book about that would be a literary book about that would be powerful and interesting because it's such a human experience. So I feel like it's interesting, like I did the game and then I did a book called Rules of the Game, which is just almost the ideas from it.


But the game did better. And that was the story with more of a moral about the kind of wages of that kind of manipulation, whereas the sort of how to tend to this kind of told me I just devastated as a test. And I just think we learn through storytelling, even on the podcast. The things we might remember is someone who tells a story versus a sharp, clear idea for sure.


And so, I mean, you're doing so many things now and what are you most excited about and where you. Just leave with that, what are you most excited about right now? I see, I think I'm excited. I really love I love the podcast, the one you mentioned to live and die in L.A. I really love learning audio storytelling, like working with a composer for the music, using the clips of the interviews, creating like that many audio movie.


Marshall McLuhan talks about hot and cold mediums. And and I think I have this right, but a cool medium. You don't use your imagination. Film, TV, it's all there for you. But a hot medium would be a podcast or a book where you're literally conjuring up the world in your head. And I love that's why I love books. I love podcasting in their storytelling way because it's so it's such a beautiful gift. I try and my books.


I don't have my author photo in there. I don't put photos in there because I want you to just use your own imagination for how it looks. So I'm really excited just to do the next season and to live in Dianella to do like some spin offs and to do more of that audio storytelling. And it's also people are so busy now, you know, audio books are on pace with regular books. Now, e-books are not doing as well as people thought they would because, you know, I know that I'm listening.


I'm in the shower playing a podcast. You know, I'm getting ready in the morning, getting a podcast. I'm like in the car listening to stuff. And because our free time, we have all these apps and devices and that are using A.I. to figure out how to fucking take our time and or money. Like, the craziest thing about it to me is, you know, and we're right now with it is like literally, literally there things smarter than us that are figuring this out, figuring out how to take our time and take our money, our most valuable things.


And so, A, because we're dealing with that audio audio is easier, but B is I always think about like year the arms race for your attention and how to really simplify. So I guess what I'm excited about is really simplifying my life. So I'm doing the things I love, which is, you know, being a great dad, doing the physical stuff, working out, surfing and then just writing and being healthy. Like, I think like just I think you're maybe there, too, you know, with just how much how much can I simplify and just create space.


What is the most important thing that you want to be known for? Yeah, I mean, most I really want to be known by my child as a good person and a good parent like I would take that would be the most number one.


We are striving, striving good on that one. It looks like the relationship. You have a great connection.


It's really like wonderful. The the second thing it's weird is that when someone asks I think I was doing the I was doing the Enneagram test to Enneagram test. I'd never done it before. I see what type I was. And it was a question of how well much do you want to be known. I'm like, oh, I don't need to be known, but I want the books to be don't I don't care about me at all. But the books are almost like little children that you want to have an impact on the world, right?


Like I don't care. I don't care about how I'm No. One. I don't care about what reputation is. I want like say the truth to help people wake up to their own patterns and improve their relationships. I feel like each book is a little like, you know, sort of a little impact, you know, vibration trying to set out in the world. So I really think I just want that. I just hope the books survive and help turn people on to stuff.


What's the matter? I said I only wrote the books because something changed my life that I got excited to share. So I want to I hope that the books excite people to change their life in the same way.


Now we've reached a part of the show where we address society's fatal conveniences and how we can avoid falling into them and being a victim of them. I define fatal conveniences as the things we may be doing because the world we live in makes us believe we have to. And even though they may be serious time or tricking us into thinking they're good for us, the truth is they're not fact. They could be slowly harming us and even killing us. OK, everyone, we've hit this part of the episode.


It's exciting, right, to find out more highways and more activities or more habits or more things that you were doing that is potentially harming you. Right. So though, that's why I'm excited about this part of the episode, because I want to liberate you from these things so that you have more space, more energy, more vitality and less suppression, anger, fear, anxiety, unhealth toxicity, you name it. Today, I'm going to talk about something a little different than maybe a toxin or the water bottles or the detergent I've talked about in the past that are fatal conveniences.


Today, I'm going to talk about the avoidance of emotional anger, the repression of anger or sadness or guilt or shame.


When you have these things going on for you, pushing them away only makes them worse. So the fatal convenience here is don't deal with it. Don't deal with your problems. Don't deal with your anger. Push it away, pick up a drink, go to fast food restaurants, stuff it down and don't deal with it. But I promise you, your body, your mind, your emotions are dealing with it. It is affecting you physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually.


So repressed emotion and avoiding them. Is not a good idea. It is a horrible idea. So switching that negative side of it and finding that way to see the positive, this is not high in the sky. This is not you know, it's easier for some people than the other. It is a muscle. You must work in order to see that you have possibilities beyond the emotion because we all fall into it. Something didn't go our way. Someone did something shitty to us.


And maybe all those things are absolutely true. Maybe you got fired, maybe and you didn't deserve it. Maybe you were racially profiled and you sure as hell didn't deserve that. All of these things. But you can use the anger, the fear, the all of this biological power and emotion. You can use it to your benefit so you can take that adrenaline and that anger and you can transmute it into action, into steps forward and not feed more of the anger, fear, guilt and sadness, because that only begets more and more of the same thing.


So how can you essentially do this? Emotional avoidance is extremely challenging and you have to deal with it because that is only leading to absolute depression and paralysis and certainly doesn't move you forward. Now, you've all heard and I'm sick of talking about it, but in this case, my house burned down everything I owned burned down to the ground. I had nothing other than coming off of the trips with Zach. I had my suitcase and one car at the airport.


That's all I had. And of course, my dog Joga was fine. Everything was gone and I had to grieve. So it's not saying, listen, just blow off the grief of the stuff, go through that grief. But then on the other side of is what can I do to take all of that? I, I cried, I screamed, I shouted. But then through that, acknowledging the emotion, I then was pissed and I was going to fucking do something for myself and the planet it further anchored.


Why I'm freaking here to support the planet, to support people and to support health in both of those ways, period. If I'm not doing that, I am not interested. So what can you do? You can start practicing. Nothing is happening to you. It's happening for you. So if that's or you've been pretending that this relationship was great or blowing things off, or you're pretending that you love your job and you really don't, it's uncorking the truth so that you can absolutely do something about it.


So using anger for good, switching the the anger and the fear and the resentment and the sadness, switching it for, OK, what can I do to improve myself? What can I do to have a greater outlook? What am I not getting? What am I not seeing in my life that led to this problem, led to some of it's out of your control, but you still are receiving the issue. Very good friend of mine just was in a tragic motorcycle accident.


Tragic. He survived, but he lost his left leg. So everyone was like, oh, shit, man, he's going to be potentially could slide down a slope. And it would be horrible for him, so I rushed out to Colorado to meet him and he said, looking down, I saw him without his leg and it was so emotional, but he was alive. And he said, I'm going to use this as an opportunity for myself and my life and I will do everything I want to do without this leg.


I will do this. I am excited for my life. That is what he was saying. So if you can transmute and I know you can, then you can change these things. Some of these tips are simply focusing on the positive when the shitstorm is happening around you. Right, covid, it's crazy. But you can focus on your health, you can be at home with your family, you could have dinner with your kids, you can focus on my job just left.


I don't have a job. OK, focus on what your dreams are. Go put our energy into those opportunities. These are the types of things that you can do to transmute and change all of those things that are happening. Stay present. Don't go into the future on stuff. Be present with what's happening so you can focus on the good use the positivity in a moment. And then move forward and create that next moment as a positive and don't go down the frickin pooh-pooh train of my life sucks.


And you're saying, you know, this always happens to me. I'm a loser. I don't have enough money. All of that negative self talk. Please stop. I had a teacher in my master's in psychology program and he said, if you're going to listen to your mind, why are you going to let it always say negative stuff, train your mind, switch it up, and then it creates another magnetic field of possibility and it keeps you engaged into creating.


Yeah, man, shit happens. It happens hard. I have a list of things that happened to me the last couple of years that are so intense. It brought me to my knees, but I would not exchange any of it because I am a frickin better person for it. OK, are you starting to get my drift here? Be thankful no matter what is happening. Let me say that again. I want you to hear this. Be thankful for no matter what is happening and if you need to cultivate that thankfulness and that gratefulness, then look around your breathing.


You have friends, you have whatever it is that you have, focus on that and then start to cultivate that muscle of whatever hardship or tragedy you are focused on the positive. OK, so the fatal convenience here is don't blow off your emotions. Don't blow off your anger. Deal with it straight on straightforward so that you can transmute it and use that frickin anger and power to change your life. I promise you, I'm talking and speaking from visceral experience.


You've all gone through it. And you all still will go through it, you do not get out of jail free in this life, you will be hit with stuff. And the quicker you understand that, you can change your mind, that will change your attitude, that will change your biology and your chemistry and will change your life because it will open up doors of possibilities rather than staying in this bullshit of being angry all the time. OK, you get that little long federal convenience, I apologize for that, but I'm passionate about it.


I love you all. Stay positive, kick some ass, stay healthy and I love you.


That was a fantastic episode. What was the one thing that you got out of today's conversation? If today's episode struck a chord with you and you want to dive a little deeper on a variety of topics, check out my live deep dive on Derrinallum dot com backslash deep dive.


More episodes are available on Derrinallum Dotcom as well. Keep diving, my friends. Keep diving.


This episode is produced by my team at Must Amplify, an audio marketing company that specializes in giving a voice to a brand and making sure the right people hear it.


If you would like or are thinking about doing a podcast or even would like a strategy session to add your voice to your brand in a powerful way.


Go to w w w dot must amplify dot com backslash. Darren that's w w w must amplify dot com backslash Darren.