You are listening to the Darren Wilson Show, I'm Darren, I spent the last 20 years devoted to improving health, protecting the environment and finding ways to live a more sustainable life. In this podcast, I have honest conversations with people that inspire me. I hope that through their knowledge and unique perspectives, they'll inspire you to. We talk about all kinds of topics from amping up your diets and improving your well-being to the mind blowing stories behind the human experience and the people that are striving to save us and our incredible planet.

We've investigated some of the life's fatal conveniences. You know, those things that we are told might be good for us, but totally aren't. So here's to making better choices and the small tweaks in your life that amount to big changes for you and the people around you and the planet. Let's do this. This is my show, The Darren Olean Show. Everybody, welcome to the show. Thanks for tuning in, I'm your host, the Daryn Show stoked to have you here.

And it's all about empowerment for me. You know, it's not about fads. It's not about carbs and proteins. And all of this stuff is bad. And I'm also one of those plant based guys who's not going to tell you what to do. I just don't want to do that. And it's not my place to do that. But I do want to open up your minds to exposing you to some of the greatest medicinal plants, some of the greatest plants, some of the greatest nutritional contributions to your life.

And that is very, very intimately connected to what you're putting in your mouth. And my great guest, Dr. Joel Furhman, has lived and breathed this before he even entered into his very long 40 plus year career in plant based eating research, backing it up with what he's doing, what he's saying with the research, and actually getting phenomenal results with people. I love this guy because, you know, one of the first books I read that was supporting some of the things that I was moving into, and that is whole food plant based eating.

And that is his incredible book, Eat to Live. And this was really a very scientifically based, easy to read, just really ahead of the curve for him in this world. Now, his new book, Eat for Life. We have a shared publisher, Harper Collins or Harper, one in this case, the Harper family. So he's up to some incredible things. He's been all over. Dr. Oz, The Today Show live with Kelly. Good Morning America.

Joel Ferman is committed to doing incredible things. He's got his retreat where people can come in and heal and learn and then take those principles on into their life. He had his enlightenment about plant based eating before he even entered medical school, all the while knowing that they were not doing any nutritional education at all. But he knew what he was dedicated to, what worked for him, what worked for many people. And it was rooted in the science.

This guy is a badass, like board certified family physician, seven time New York Times best seller. Come on, that's huge. And of course, he's just an internationally recognized expert researcher on nutrition, healthy eating, practical down and dirty just does it himself. He's the president of the Nutritional Research Foundation and on faculty at the Northern Arizona University Health Sciences Division. He coined the term Neutra Tarion, which I think is amazing and fantastic.

And I use it myself to describe the nutrient dense eating style. And that's really what it's about, because, of course, I nerd out with the super foods, with the things that I've found around the world that contribute more nutrition per every bite, per every calorie. So for over thirty years, Dr. Furhman has shown not only can you live this way, you can absolutely thrive. So listen to this smart, amazing, committed guy. I love this dude.

And he's a colleague. He's now a friend and enjoy this powerful episode of my good friend, Dr. Joel. I remember the the first book I eat to live, right, and it was just such an amazing that you deliver in such a way that that makes it easy for people to understand. And I'm also excited about your eat for life, your new one. Right. That came out in March. And and I just cruised through the the chapters that I haven't had a chance to read it.

But they're all aerials of not only my personal research, but also certainly love and all about plants and longevity and and just how to take care of yourself. Is that your main focus or I mean, you're how many books have you kicked out at this point?

I've written 12 or 13 books and seven of them have become New York Times best sellers. So some of my favorite ones did not become bestsellers for some reason, like my book Fast Food Genocide, which is such a fascinating book, is not New York Times bestseller, but I think it's certainly one of my best books. And another book of mine that I really loved that did not become a bestseller was called Disease Proof Your Child.

And you would think I mean, it's like timing on everything, right? It's like, you know, obviously we're in a weird time right now. And if anyone were to understand the importance of health, you have to be literally under a rock not to to realize that that health and what we're putting in our mouth is intimately, even though people aren't talking about it in the mainstream media, which is just absolutely, utterly insane to me because of, what, forty thousand research articles that exist and probably mounting.

So the fact that even in this time and even as having a body, we're not intimately aware of what we're putting in our mouth. And and that's really where I love that you focus so much on stepping back a second. Like what? When was it I know you have your medical training at Pennsylvania. What was the light bulb moment for you when you said, whoa, this is this the focus of plants, the focus of what you put in your mouth?

What was what was that moment and when was that moment?

There was no such moment because my father was fairly sickly growing up. And we and we started to read health books together as a teenager when he was a little older. And we changed the debate in my family when I was young. So I was already eating very healthily in my later teens and through college and my career as a professional ice skater. I was third in the world in pairs figure skating in nineteen seventy six. I was I was a competitive figure skater with my sister as a pair skater and we were trying to eat healthy to further our performance and endurance.

And so I was already into this stuff and I decided to go to medical school because I was studying and had this was such a hobby and I was so passionate about this that I just, you know, stopped my family's business to business. And I pursued a career in nutritional medicine knowing I was going to an Ivy League medical school with a specific intent to be a unique physician with a different message.

Wow. So so literally, you were already doing a bunch of this stuff. And so it wasn't this light bulb moment where many of the people like, I want to be a doctor. And then you realize that the type of training was not about health care, it was about sticking and burning. And then whatever it it was pharmaceutical integrations. So you can literally see what I'm going to, you know, pack myself with the education correctly. And then what?

And so you had to be going through medical school like I mean, there was a obviously you had to be going there, going, what? What are people doing? Did you did you talk to professors? Did you say, like, why aren't you guys teaching nutrition? Like, I was just curious about the about the student. Like, what were your thought patterns? You're already awakened right in it. And but yet you're training directly in something that they weren't even dealing with nutrition.

Exactly. And I was very vocal. They made me chairman of an issue of Nutrition Education Committee at the school. By the way, when I was in college, in medical school, many of the my medical school classmates have said to me they learned more from me than they can, so much with the training effect that their life was more important than their medical education may think.

It's funny. And I'd be walking to my class, to my seat and some of the students when when I was thirty years old at the time, they weren't children, but but they'd be like hiding their candy bars or putting their general behind their backs. And I'd say I'm not. Your mother do whatever you want, you know, right, and people still do that to this day because they certainly do that to me, too, right? They you know, you just show up without even lecturing people.

And just just the aura of what you know and what you stand for kind of permeates to everybody. And isn't that interesting that people already know? Right. So they already know that this habit is not good for them. You just represent some sort of truth. Right. And so they start hiding everything. And it's it's interesting to me as a human animal that we know this. Very deeply on some level, and yet we don't exercise some of those habits, that that is just astonishing to me.

So then when you show up, you kind of put a magnifying glass on those people's choices, even though they already know it.

Well, we know the food is designed to be addicting and highly palatable and to make it any animal given a choice between processed, highly palatable junk foods and will choose those foods over their natural diet and eat themselves to death. And so it's it's a biological and innate primitive drive to eat highly concentrated calories in a highly flavored substances. It's unfortunate that people that isn't reading, writing, arithmetic and nutritional science. The problem is we have to indoctrinate people in the importance of nutrition from a young age and it doesn't happen.

So our job becomes a little more difficult at trying to convince people to eat healthfully. But that's my specialty at this point, is taking people and giving them the motivational tools and changing their personality and intellect and emotions and personalities even have to change for them to enjoy this more than their old diet, learn the recipes, change their taste buds, but also change the personalities to a degree to really totally enjoy living this way.

Yeah, I think you bring up many, many good points to that because it's it's it's so much of this stuff is hell, it's cultural. It's a ritual. It's multilayered and and. And it's it's almost like what you said about all of us are going to reach for this highly processed, highly caloric and very certainly dangerous food, and we're going to reach to that and almost kill ourselves. And we're watching that on and off. It's almost the reverse.

I hate the term, but it's almost the reverse. Biohacking, we're being kind of hacked into this horrible eating patterns. And and and we're running around with, what, 60 percent of the Americans are running towards degenerative disease, if not more professional. And health authorities tell us that 70 percent of Americans are overweight, which is not true. They can say that because they use a BMI of twenty five as the demarcation line between overweight and normal weight or blue zones all along of society's always have populations with a BMI twenty below twenty three for a male and below twenty two for a female and probably for optimal lifespan.

It's probably better to have a BMI below twenty two from down below twenty one for a female. If we use the permissive BMI of twenty three then we classify eighty eight percent of Americans as being overweight, keeping in mind that more than 70 percent of all Americans over the age of sixty five die of heart attacks and strokes and the vast majority on medications for their blood pressure and their heart. We're talking here about the fact that if you eat like other Americans eat, you have to become sickly, prone to heart attacks, strokes, cancers and dementia because the American diet is disease creating in every person that eats it and the 12 percent of the population, that's a normal weight.

Most of them are cigarette smokers, people who are alcoholics, depressed on medications for autoimmune conditions or have some occult cancers or Digest's disorders, some disease process or habits keeping them thin. If they were healthy, they'd be overweight. It's only two point four percent of the population that actually has a normal body weight because they eat healthfully and exercise regularly. Cheesesteak. I have never heard that stat. That is one of the most frightening stats of our obesity.

Our degeneration or failing health care system like that just points to depression, Alzheimer's, dementia, like all of Rithy risk cancers, heart disease. It just it's basically all of us sprinting towards a very. Dangerous life expression and and and two point four percent, right, that's that's unbelievable.

And every bit of you I can only imagine has been fighting this fight and screaming from every area you can. And it's like, how frustrating is this? I mean, I'm I'm a couple of decades in, but I spent time superfood, hunting. I haven't been doing what you've been doing. And I'm already at this point where I don't understand it. I don't get it. I don't you realize that everyone's choice is you're creating the future. Every choice now we're creating the seed of our future tomorrow and we're sprinting toward this disease and this degeneration.

Then there's a big elephant in the room with the medical profession and with covid. You know, people are facing death. And I'm saying almost everybody is it all is abnormal. There's no healthy people succumbing to covid. Everybody's so unhealthy that even if they're not overweight or elderly, they're going to get sick with a virus and be at risk because their immune system is so poor from what they're putting in their mouth, while at the same time we have this unprecedented opportunity in human history to really push the envelope of human longevity, have a superior, healthy life expectancy, not get cancers or heart attacks and strokes, dementia or diabetes, and and have a live a life of joy and physical and mental fulfillment and capacity in later years.

And it gives us this. We should be grateful for nutritional science and the opportunity it gives us to have such a happy and healthy life.

You're so damn right. It's it's like let's reverse this whole thing because we're just getting inundated with all of this craziness, with all of this intensity, when in fact we have so much control as individuals and we have so much control in our homes and then that just proliferates from there. So let's break this down a little bit, because I love I love what you've been doing. I've you've been such a great advocate around truly looking at food, not just from the macro perspective, but this bath of micro nutrients.

Right. The vitamins and minerals of Paula Deen, the incredible array of synergy that we have with with these plants.

And so so use this term Wittrock area, which I would love. So can you unpack that a little more?

Because I'd love for everyone to hear some of the science and some of the work that you've been doing, this new tutoring approach, because the same dietary science that maxilla extends human lifespan and prevents disease is therapeutically most effective. When you're trying to reverse disease and get a person, well, get them well for multiple sclerosis, psoriasis, rheumatoid arthritis, diabetes, in other words, reverse heart disease that works very effectively like hereditary treat. We have people come here for months at a time and just don't just lose weight and get rid of food addictions.

But they're here to get rid of the rheumatoid arthritis and psoriasis and asthma. And it's just so as a therapeutic modality, it can't compare with the toolbox of conventional medicine, which can't get people well and have to put people on drugs that cause cancer just to have them feel a little better. And most people are coming on these dangerous drugs. They're still not better. They're still sick just putting more poisons in their body. So you asked me what are is a neutral Tarion diet and essentially it's founded on some basic principles.

And the first and most important principle we say is moderate caloric restriction in the context of micronutrient excellence. And my point here is that when you achieve micronutrient excellence, eating all these high fiber, high nutrient foods, it naturally suppresses your appetite and makes you no longer desirous of being a calorie consuming monster. So you don't have to overeat so much and you just instinctually eat the right amount of calories and become thin. We're talking about moderate caloric restriction is really just emphasizing that when you don't eat healthy enough, you're not satisfied with the right amount of calories and you're forced to over overconsume calories, just the basic amount of energy.

And just to feel feel OK, you have to over consume food.

So for years, maybe all most of my life, people have been asking me what kind of foods you eat, what kind of exercises do do, what kind of water should I drink, all of these things and so much more. We put into a twenty one day program so that. And take you through a theme every day of knowledge, action, and then eating this delicious meals, working out, getting support, anchoring in these new habits so you can do what?

So that you can kick ass. So you have the energy, the vitality to live the kind of life that you really want. That's what it's all about. So all in this app, we have grocery lists, we have education about real hydration and what greater oxygenation and the balance of organization. All of these things we are diving into as you're heading down this hero's journey of implementation into a new life to give you the kind of life that you actually want.

So join my tribe. All you have to do is go to one to one tribe, dotcom, sign up and you get three free days. Join me on this hero's journey. Join the tribe. Of course, if your body on a deep level is not getting the micronutrients, of course, it's going to want to keep reaching for food because it's not getting what it needs on a cellular level. And and that to me, is like people are reaching for volume, producing food, like the opposite.

Right. They're trying to fill up their stomachs as opposed to filling up their body in their skulls full of rich food. And inevitably, we have more free, radical, more reactive oxygen species, more advanced placation and products which cause diabetic retinopathy and kidney and neuropathy. And we have all these. And so when people stop eating for a few hours and they just the process stops, they start to feel really weak and fatigued and mental confusion or shaking and eating makes them feel good.

So they think that that's how they mistakenly think the withdrawal from the poisonous diet, they think those symptoms are hunger because eating more food makes it go away again. And they wind up becoming an amusing food like an addiction to keep their energy up. And all they're doing is keeping the body out of the face, because when you're not digesting food, that's when the body most effectively can repair, detoxify excesses, break down tissues. And you feel so bad when that happens.

And so people are so misinformed that it makes it every diet fails because it's they can't just cut back on calories is almost impossible to do. So unless you focus on the nutritional quality of what you're eating, that makes cutting back on calories comfortable enough to do it to be able to do it.

Yeah. So, I mean, there's been a lot of new followers in this podcast and a lot of people waking up with ideas for maybe just go in to demystify some of the what's a day in the life of being like this as opposed to where they're coming from. What what does that look like for someone who has been eating the volume food with poor nutrients and shifting into a micro nutrient bath full of plant based food? What's that like? People are they're so used to eating foods that you don't have to chew, that you just swallow whole.

They are so used if they're stealing stuff from their stomach. We're dealing with very sick and addicted people. And the first few days of switching over to healthy eating, they could start to be headache and fatigued and feel a little uncomfortable going through withdrawal from the rich diets and not eat and all the sodium they're eating, they can start to feel weak and fatigue from the lowering blood pressure and decreasing. I've seen people drop ten pounds the first night in one day.

They drop ten pounds of fluid from not eating. All the salt and fast foods is incredible. But but let me just say that to answer your question is that this is not that complicated to do because, you know, I have an acronym Gabon's g b o m b s greens, beans, onions, mushrooms, berries and seeds, which are labeling those six foods with the most documented efficacy to prevent cancer. And I want people to remember those foods.

They can include them regularly in their diet. So we make it simple for people every day. They have a big salad for lunch. It's really simple. Have a bowl of salad with a dressing made from nuts and seeds. It could be a lemon vinaigrette or it could be a Russian fig with tomato sauce and roasted garlic and almonds. And it could be an orange sesame cashew with lemon and orange vinegar. The dressing has some whole nuts and seeds in it.

It's a very it's got little cruciferous little red scallion. So they have a big raw salad every day. And then when they can make a bowl of vegetable bean soup with beans and carrots and leeks or some kind of cruciferous collard greens and whatever, is to make a big bowl of soup. And they can use that soup the whole week for five days. So if our whole population just had a nice, simple salad with a healthy dressing and a bowl of soup and a piece of fruit for lunch and shoot up the salad really well, that's a great place to start because they'd be getting in a lot of those bombs just in one meal.

Right. And then breakfast is not complicated. Breakfast, you can have a little bit of steel. Also came a little bit of grain, a little bit of healthy seeds on that, like seeds or sesame seeds or hampster or flax seed succeeds or hemp seeds and a little bit of maybe an almond milk or another plant lo the little unsweetened soy milk cup of berries, some kind of mangoes or apricots or whatever kind of frozen fruit is fine. Frozen wild berries or frozen frozen berries are cheaper.

They don't go back and put it back in your freezer again. So what I'm saying is it's not that complicated to do. This to make a very green seed breakfast, to make a salad and soup and piece of fruit for lunch and your dinner could be a mixed vegetable with water chestnuts and mushrooms and snow pods and bok choy, but a Thai curry sauce or something like that. We have one thing. We have all these incredible recipes that we teach people and we make even nice, delicious desserts after dinner time to in.

And we see people dropping like 30, even up to 30 pounds. And I just had a 19 year old girl who dropped 90 pounds the last three months. And I have a man who just came who is continuing on the program after we spent a few months here and he strapped over one hundred, one hundred and five pounds in the last five months. And they're eating as much food as they're comfortable eating. They're not going hungry, but they're happy with the quality of what they're eating is high.

And they're and the body just tries to actively, actively fix itself and get out all that extra fluid and extra tissue. Don't forget, it's not just fat. These overweight people hang on to a huge amount of water weight because it's because the water weight, the water is the least. The dilute the acidity and the toxicity. Everybody gets swollen with water to reduce the, should I say, the damaging effects of the end of the information. The body holds onto water and you could see the person's dropping weight even faster than you would expect to see.

I mean, it's just amazing to me the what you can do with the body and have it continue to move on. Right. And then when you make that shift in a healthy way, how quickly the body is always wanting and driving for health. So, like, if you just like you said in a month, 30 pounds are just gone and doesn't have to be the struggle that if you just stop with the toxic load of all this other stuff and then nourish your body with very simple, powerful, delicious foods, because clearly, if anyone's listening to you describe the food, it's not a lack.

It is. It is this beautiful basic food that is delicious. There's certainly in this day and age, we have a lot of options where we can really make an incredible transition over the whole food plant based and not have deprivation makes it very easy. And getting into now where the longevity side of things, the science of long term longevity is something, for lack of a better word, distant. But it's giving us that vitality, that energy now, because everything you described is essentially what the blue zones live in.

Right? All of those the bombs that you described are our common longevity, the foods that people eat. So so I kind of I don't I almost disagree to a degree, because I think that the blue zones do some some blue zones do some of those beneficial things. Other blue zones do some beneficial things. The blue zones are not examples of the most of the best opportunity for human longevity. They're just better than what Americans are getting see. And nutrition and diet takes it to a new level of the best aspect of every blue zone and puts together all the most longevity, growing foods blowing out of the water, what you can achieve in a blue zone and what the blue zones have achieved.

So I just wanted to make that clear because out of the blue zones do a lot of things right and a lot of things wrong. But because they're much better than what Americans are doing, because we can't just we don't want to duplicate the blues.

Yeah, well, that's a thank you for bringing up that point, because it's learning what obviously the cultures have been in. And obviously there's a lot of factors and cultural factors and and everything else that goes into that. And they're doing a lot of great things and they're keeping proteins low and they're eating a lot of plant and keeping a lot of the things away. But but that's a really important distinction, is taking all of that and then adding on the science and the things that you've been studying and make it infinitely more appropriate for all of the better reasons of promoting longevity.

So what are your top longevity principles that you've learned? Well, we're talking here about the fact that when you eat really healthfully with a lot of fiber and nutrients, your appetite goes down and you chew well, you you become the right body weight, not too thin and not too overweight. But we also have to do other things, too. Our diet has to be hormonally favorable. That means we can eat high glycemic carbohydrates to drive up insulin.

Our diet can't be predominantly white rice or brown rice or white potato or white bread or white. It can't be predominantly from hypoglycaemic carbohydrates because the extra stress on the insulin system can slow, can retard aging especially can accelerate aging and especially have a negative effect on people who are already overweight and insulin resistance. No, to the same thing with animal protein, that animal protein drives up certain hormones, growth hormone and IGF one in particular to levels that are too high.

In the event the Adventist Health Study, too, was such an important study in the history of human nutrition, because it because it looks at people that follow near vegan diets and plant based diet, but others that eat a little more animal products. And the diets in this this study has been going on for decades, but for 20 years already. And we see that more animal protein, the diet shortens lifespan and has a negative effect on health. But also as people approach a vegan diet, more plant protein in the diet adds to life span and more later, life, better health outcomes.

We're talking about where a diet like a for example, a fruitarian diet or a macrobiotic diet based on just race alone or a diet, it's not doesn't have the assortment of like hemp seeds and quinoa and broccoli and beans and soybeans that doesn't have the full amino acid balance. It's not as does have the broad spectrum of foods. So what I'm saying right now is that increasing the nutritional variety, increasing the protein bioavailability, the diet, even in a plant based diet, adds to its beneficial and generally promoting effects.

And furthermore, a plant based diet that's not conservatively and correctly supplements supplements can also drive some issues to be unfavorable, such as not taking in DHEA for the brain with aging, because we know that all the studies looking at this issue show that low omega three index that's very prevalent in vegans who are not supplementing is associated with cognitive impairment and brain shrinkage with aging. So there's some things we can do with using modern science to assure us the best possible longevity without some issues that could get people in trouble, how they eat.

So we have so much information today to be able to direct people to the best opportunity. In other words, we're thinking that more protein is better, but we know if we use more animal protein, we're going to get in trouble if we get too much too high. And lastly, and which is obvious, we don't want to just have comprehensive nutritional adequacy making sure we have every nutrient humans need. But we also want to not be exposed to poisons and toxins and chemicals to.

And so eating cleanly and avoiding chemicals and pesticides and then pathogenic bacteria and parasites, all these things also could play a role that we have. We have the opportunity to eat organic foods from from healthy soils. We have an opportunity today. We know a lot about this. But as you know, very few people are taking advantage of this opportunity. But if we did, it would change. It would obviously stop our health care crisis, stop in numerable deaths and perhaps even save the planet.

At the same time, there's a lot of work being done around restorative agriculture methods, right?

Absolutely. So now there's a lot of restoration carbon sequestering within the soil itself. People don't realize that the more soil we we cultivate in the model crops, the more we lose. Not only the micronutrients are essentially gone at that point. So you said a couple of things and I want to unpack so people fully understand. So, number one, the the the way to supplement the omega 3s and that can be what is easy was including seeds. Flax seeds had seeds in our diet on a consistent basis.

Would you think that that is enough of a supplementation for most people to counteract some of the loss water that enough? Or do we need to look for that algae oil with a boost as well? Or of the hybrid of all that? What would you think were definitely a hybrid? We know that perhaps seventy five percent of people don't score and Omega index above five when they're just even with the higher use of flaxseed and fat restriction of omega sixes. There are some people who do it because we're all genetically different.

And I've seen some people with a score of zero or one putting them in really increased risk. You know, when I got into this nutrition, you said where was the light bulb moment? And I said, my father and I were reading a lot of books. The books we reading were written by Herbert Shelton and from the Natural Hygiene Movement in in nineteen fifties, very old books with things that might have been wrong and some things that were right.

But by being in that community of individuals who my mentors when I was a child or a teenager, most of these people develop dementia or caucuses in their later years, became sickly on the plant based diet due to insufficiencies that I was able to later become a doctor and check the blood. And when they were elderly people, we saw they got into trouble and the majority of them developed either Parkinson's or dementia and had very low levels of omega three. So I'm saying it's something that we have to be concerned about and make sure we don't have a second generation of problems with people just thinking that this is not an issue that should be considered.

Just like the 12 was an important issue here, too.

Right. So, I mean, just stepping into the because I can hear the mediators saying, see, it's not sustainable vegans, we're not sustainable. You need to supplement and everything else. And part of and let's unpack that a little bit because because we're also in this modern day world where are all pretty much all of our food is devoid of micronutrients. It's not at the levels even in the early nineteen hundreds we knew from a farming perspective. So so because we need to potentially supplement like omega 3s and be Twelve's is that doctor for a reason to not go based on that then an argument.

And I'm laughing because I know the answer but is not an argument. C the meat eaters or C we don't have to supplement those things. Well, people have people are food addicts and they want to eat. They they have these belief systems. This is an unprecedented opportunity with science has made such radical advances in the last decade. We really can tweak a person's nutrition to have them not feel cancer and not feel getting sick. And so this is just an incredible opportunity.

And to to think that you're going to look for an excuse to then eat meat or think excessive of superfood, people are just so confused. Many of you who follow me know I've spent most of my life searching for the healthiest foods on the planet. If you look hard enough, there are a few unknown, extraordinary foods around the world that people still don't know about. And a few years ago, I came across my favorite superfood discovery of all time verrucas nuts.

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They're really good for the planet. Most other nuts require millions of gallons of irrigated water, but verruca trees require no artificial irrigation. Brewskis are truly good for you, good for the planet. And good for the world community. It's a win all the way around, I really think you'll love them. So I'm giving all of my listeners 15 percent off by going to Barracas Dotcom backslash, Daryn. That's B a r u k a s dot com backslash, Daryn.

D a r i and I know you will enjoy. You know, I do want to get into you because of the bad and the people throwing around all of this is about health. It's really about some solid common sense principles. It's not about high saturated fat, high animal proteins and all of this stuff, though. So maybe just give a little, because we do have normal people also listening to this and they hear that shit all the time.

So let's just come back a little bit of this high fat idea as it relates to what we're really talking about and the challenges that comes with a super high fat diet. Yeah, there are popular diets that are over the years that have been quite dangerous. And I explain to people that we look at controlled trials, we look at short term studies, which can set forth the hypothesis and give us some idea of what might be advantageous to do or not.

Like a short term trial. Looking at a soft endpoint might say the person's blood pressure look better. They lost weight, their hemoglobin. Anyone see a glucose look better? The diabetic parameters improved. But a hard end point is has more has more credence. A end point is something like death or horn took over just so I could give you a statin drug that looks like it lowers your cholesterol. Quite powerful. And that's the soft end point. But I need to have many thousands of people looked on for decades to see if those people with those cholesterol would really live longer or maybe they died of other causes that made them have higher risks of death.

So when we look at all the epidemiologic studies, look large numbers of people, many hundreds of thousands of people that look at heart endpoints like death or heart attacks or cancer incidence, we see that as animal protein or animal products go up in a person's diet. So does the causes of premature death. And so animal fat and particularly is very cancer promoting certain particular types of cancers as well. Basically, we know that animal product consumption is a large contributor to cancer in the modern world, and it's then that that person advocating a paleo or Kito diet will then say, yeah, but that's because the modern factory farm animal products are not the same thing as the wild animal products that we're recommending or something like that.

And that is not true. The studies are done on wild grass, on grass fed and and in different countries around the world like Australia and other places where they where most of our grass fed or more naturally raised and imported from. And we see this whether we see the same thing and we know the mechanisms involved. There's many different biological mechanisms. We're talking about raising growth hormones, promoting angiogenesis, raising inflammatory markers, raising more gram negative bacteria, increasing to try metformin oxides, we increasing nitrogenous waste, uric acid and ammonia.

There's all these reasons we can explain. So the science, the short term studies is corroborated with long term studies, with heart point, the same thing with true that the same thing we see when we're putting more vegetables in the diet, more nuts and seeds that diet, more beans in the diet. All the studies on these high nutrient plant foods shows enhancement and longevity one of the most important and striking findings of the last 20 years from the Seventh Day Adventist studies and a meta analysis of other studies corroborating the same information is that as more nuts and says people eat nuts and seeds in their diet as their source of fat, they have less heart attacks, less sudden cardiac death and lower rates of cancer as well.

All cause mortality goes down. What I'm saying right now is that that processed oil like walnut oil is not as healthy as a walnut. Sesame oil is not as good as a sesame seed, those sesame seeds of a high fat content food. But nevertheless, we're seeing that these whole foods have a different biological effect on the body. We can go into the mechanisms, all the things they contain y nuts and seeds are better than fast. The bottom line is the studies are irrefutable at this point, the overwhelming amount of studies that corroborate each other so that when you make when you need nascency to extend human lifespan and when you take them out of a diet and make the diet too low and fat, with this artificial fear of eating any fat and moving oils, you're moving on nuts and seeds.

We see cardiovascular death and cancer deaths actually go up, not go down. So like walnuts are a powerful anti cancer food. So what are the nuts and seeds that seem to have the most anti cancer effect? Seem to be those lignin containing ones like flax seeds and seeds and sesame seeds. And walnuts particularly have an extra beneficial effects to the physicians health study also showed because they looked at these doctors who had sudden cardiac death versus the regular heart attack, and they they did autopsy studies and went back into the history to see exactly what pinpointing the cause of deaths, death, documenting that eating nuts and seeds had a dramatic effect, actually, a 60 percent reduction in sudden cardiac death, a certain type of heart attack.

A person gets a cardiac arrhythmia and dies on the spot. And that's nuts and seeds of a tremendous effect in stabilizing the heart against an irregular heartbeat. So that's just now, as opposed to eating high saturated fat substances like butter or coconut oil or whatever, that we see that such high levels of saturated fat have some opposite effects and can just form the insulin receptors, making you more prone for diabetes and making glucose goes up. So these people following these paleo diets, using a lot of natural saturated fats like butter and and meats and things, could say, look, I want to eat a mango or some oatmeal.

My sugar goes through the roof. She when I eat meat, it doesn't go up. But they don't understand that the fact that the high animal fat diet distorted their insulin response by misshapen and distorting the receptors. So now they don't have a normal glucose response to a mango any more. Their sugars is too high and also fat on the body is dangerous tissue. It blocks the insulin up, insulin receptors, misshapen stem, it makes you insulin resistance and fat cells spew out inflammation, cytokines, all kinds.

They stimulate aromatase, which is makes you raise estrogen in the body, increasing prostate and breast cancer. So what I'm saying right now is also this nonsense that people like to believe in, that you can be overweight and healthy at the same time. And the truth is that people don't want to recognize there's no such thing as an overweight, healthy person. If you're overweight, you're not healthy, can't be overweight and healthy because fat cells do things that are cancer promoting and heart attack promote.

Yeah, I mean, you covered so much there. I mean, it's so confusing for people because we have this cyclical nature of people promoting these high fat animal diets. And you're going to be well, I can feel my abs and everything else. And what you're saying and what we're finding is that obviously that's fine. But the human body is so incredibly adaptive that in that moment it's going to do everything it can to process whatever you're putting in your in your body.

But over the long term, the cascade and domino effect that's going on, that's undermining your own health with alacrity with high protein diet. And that's that's what's alarmingly clear in talking with you.

Science of longevity, the science of the epidemiological research clearly shows that this high protein diet turns on them for cancer, promoting all of these things. It's just astonishing to me that we're having what what is now a political social argument about what seems to be just glaringly obvious in terms of the science and also confirming just common sense, isn't it? Isn't it is it me or is it just intuitively common sense to eat a wide range of polyphenols and micronutrients and bathe in plant food and Vidic forming?

And we're obviously primates. We're not carnivores, we're not lions and tigers, and we're obviously the primate heritage. And it's OK to have a philosophy and have a hypothesis. But at this point in the history of science, these hypotheses have been well tested already. And we know what enables people to live longer and prevent disease. So we know all the answers. There's a large degree of artificial controversy as a result of people having belief systems and egos and all types of reasons and underlying motivations to want to deny reality here.

They want people want to think less healthy. Diet is as healthy as a diet that's healthier. They want to think it's just as good to not as healthy. But it's not because you get better results when you make your diet better to your point and to your programs. It's we have to understand how difficult sometimes it is for people to make that transition. But but there's so many supportive things that we can do to allow a person to have that time to emotionally change, to culturally change some of those bad habits.

And and also that the whole. A biological system to change and adapt to better absorption, better as enzymatic activity and breakdown of food. It's it's it's in our hands. And that's another part where you scream to it's like this stuff scientifically, it's proven to thwart canceled, to get rid of degenerative issues. And it's literally in our hands to put in our mouth, what, one way or the other. And and that's what I love about your work is grounded in.

And you are kind of that. And I love that story because you as a child learning that and then all the way through medical school, you've never waned. You've you've always stayed on this path. And science is only been proven to you more and more that the path that you've learned from as a child is not only was great then is greater now, especially combatting all of our structured response and fatal kind of challenges we have in our modern day world.

The last thing we need is putting more stress in our mouth with poor quality food. Yes, and I'm very grateful for the opportunities I've had on PBS television and the media and also within the medical profession itself to be given the position I've had to influence other doctors and to have had so many thousands and thousands of people to get their health back. And that's been tremendously self rewarding to actually see a person with lupus, see people lupus get better. I had a girl who was on a national transplant list waiting for a new kidney, who made a complete recovery and a kidney went back to normal.

And had there's been so much so that's where my thrill and I went into this profession with the hopes that I would be working one on one with people and helping them get well. And that's that dream has been overly have been fulfilled and more. And I've been so I've been very lucky to use the power of nutrition to have people make dramatic health recoveries. And that's been tremendously rewarding. And I see in my lectures, I say it gives people superpowers because they can get well themselves, but then they have the knowledge to affect other people positively.

And that's what this world needs. And that's what we need, is people to be able to have good will and have a good impact on the people we care about. And it also I think it makes it gets you in balance with the things that are important in life and which has to do with how you eat, because instead of trying to impress another person or beat them out in some way, now you're trying to because look at eating this way may not be looked on as being favorable by the world at large.

A person changes their diet, their friends may scorn them, but so the person has to have self-esteem that's based on who they are. And that self-esteem that sticks is because they have they're seeing the world more clearly. The thought process, of course, is more accurate and logical, but they're having goodwill for others. They have gratitude for the beauty of the food and the way it can be papen what's doing for their body. And they know that they can have good will for other people.

And they're not concerned with how other people see them. They're less concerned with their narrow egos and more concerned with having a positive effect. And that gives them the ability to is one of the psychological changes we strive for to help people sustain and enjoy eating this way.

Yeah, and I think you nailed it in terms of that, because it's not just about health, but it's about that leadership inside of ourselves. And we all have that some point have to decide with the man or woman in the mirror and what am I doing to to nurture myself? I would say, like, what is your. Not really the goal, but, well, maybe, but what would you really want to see happen in the next five or 10 years in this health space?

I mean, would we like to see the the changing of how we're talking about health care, the foundation of this kind of old germ theory? Or like, what are some of your bucket list of what you'd like to see changed?

I think that it has to be common knowledge and has to be taught in grade schools like reading, writing, arithmetic and nutritional science, foundational to the basic science that people have to learn to to to travel their life's road. A sense for success because that controls your brain. You're thinking how you think your intelligence, your ability to logically weigh evidence is all affected by what you eat. And furthermore, I think my goal has always been for the for the population at large to recognize that you don't have to be get high blood pressure, heart attacks, strokes, dementia and cancers that are choice people make just like you can make a choice to smoke cigarettes and get lung cancer.

You don't have to get lung cancer or you don't have to eat yourself or drink yourself into kidney failure. You can choose not to and everybody should know how not to get sick. So you were taught the wrong message. We're talking about that these diseases are the inevitable consequence of aging, a predominantly genetic. And the answer is to go to a doctor and get a drug for them. You're not told or taught as the social primary foundational knowledge of our society.

You're not taught that only people who eat unhealthily get those diseases. And we don't have to have cancer. We don't have to have heart attacks and strokes, dementia. Should we choose a different path and make this past the normal path like not smoking and make the path that takes you to diseases that choice people can make, like smoking cigarettes or becoming an alcoholic, because that's what it is. They're food addicts. And if some people don't have the professional help or skill to remove themselves in a dangerous situation, at least society, it shouldn't be the norm of society.

I'm on board one hundred percent. I love I love what you said there. And I think education is such a powerful tool. And I think the generation Z or whatever it is now is is starting to wake up. I've had a lot reach out to me in the last month and is something is sparking them.

The challenge, the stress of this time, if it's crazy not to eat healthily now, then you've got to be faced with immediate death. But the sad thing about this is if we if the society doesn't change, then we're forward. Then we're heading towards a certain type of planetary destruction where many people are dying due to climate change, environmental impact and things that are our diets and our utilization of the world's resources can't be sustained hundreds of years from now.

So we have to make these changes.

We have to and we have to do it. And I'm not stopping. And I assume you're not stopping. You've never stopped. So let's continue that charge. There is no other choice to inspire, to love and to create opportunity for people to do something different because we really, really require it. So thank you, man. I just am so stoked to be able to get to talk with you. And let's do it again some time and let's do it in person.

What a fantastic episode. So tell me, what is one thing you got out of today's conversation? If this episode struck a chord with you and you want to dive a little deeper into my other conversations with incredible guests, you can head over to my website, Derrinallum Dotcom, for more episodes and in-depth articles. Keep diving, my friends. Keep diving. This episode is produced by my team at Must Amplify, an audio marketing company that specializes in giving a voice to a brand and making sure the right people hear it.

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