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On today's show, we talk teen pregnancy, we talk postpartum depression, and we talk to a woman who just got an awesome job promotion, but she's terrified of the public speaking that comes with it. Stay tuned.


Hey, what's up, good folks? I'm John, and this is the Dr. John Delonas show, pull up a seat at the bar and grab something to eat. Everybody's welcome in a world gone mad where we define ourselves by who we hate. This shows for those who are sick of fighting and yelling and hating, improving, proving, just want to show up and do the next right thing who just want to start hanging out with people again and not yelling at everybody again.


So this show is about your mental health, about your relationships, about everything. Right. Family parenting, relational I.Q. questions, schooling, anything you can come up with addiction. We cover it all. Here, give me a call at one eight four four six nine three thirty to ninety one. That's one eight four four six nine three three two nine one. Or go to John Delonte Dotcom slide show. Fill out the form. It could go to Kelly.


She's going to read it but she might. Just kidding.


She reads them all in man. Her psychosis, her mental health is just it's on a freefall.


Tom Petty wrote about it many, many moons ago. Hey. And while we have the the background camera up, you can see James is now texting me saying, hey, bro, let's wear the same clothes. He said today was Blue Checker Day.


And I said, yes, sir, I didn't even wear a hat today. You just give me crap about it.


Last week you said, hey, curl your hair like mine and I try to make it work. I got stuck in the flat iron, but whatever. All right. So let's go straight to the phones today. Let's go to Brianna in Lakeland, Florida. Brianna, what's going on? How can I help?


Hi, Dr. John. Thanks for taking my call. Thank you for calling. Yeah. So I guess the gist of it, I am where my husband and I are expecting our second kid in April.


So if I sound a little winded, it's because I'm very pregnant or I just want rather good here. But so that's just a minute like that's coming by the time the show comes. Your little may be here, right?


Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So we're very excited. My husband works a job that requires him to deploy two months at a time and then he's home for two months. And during our our first son, he was he because of the covid lockdown's, he actually ended up being gone for five months when our young our first son was about three months old. So all that to say, I really struggled during that time with postpartum depression and just the sleep deprivation.


And I know you really talk about how important sleep is, but I was just kind of wondering how do we handle communicating from a distance and working through that lack of sleep?


Because, you know, you can only get so much with the newborn for you had any advice with with dealing with the emotions that just come from that.


So walk us through what it what it was like for those people who experienced postpartum depression. Right. They have a feeling, a sense. I've walked into some some homes and sat with folks. And it is like very few things I've ever seen. But for those who think they know what it is, that it's just there, people are just a little bit bummed or a little bit more weepy.


Walk the average listener who just, you know, mowing the yard right now or driving to work, who really doesn't have insight to walk them through what that was like.


Yeah. So so for me, especially not having my husband around, I'm just kind of been seeing the baby and we had my parents and some other help, but it was something which sometimes is good and sometimes that makes it right.


You're performing too, and you haven't showered or slept in four weeks and you're still trying to do the song and dance for mom and dad.


But go ahead. Oh, yeah.


But for me, it it was just a lot of pressure and it got to the point where I felt like not only did I feel like I wasn't doing a good job, but it felt like I, I just didn't even like my child some time, which I'm sure we all go through those phases. But it just, you know, even to my husband, I'd say, like, wow, why did we do this or we're ready for this.


It just was like drowning. It was overwhelming and it was especially bad. Like, I'm just I like my sleep, as most people do. Right. So getting up every two hours or, you know, being up till one because you just won't fall asleep for any reason. Just got to the point where I was like, I, I don't even like you. And then you feel guilty.


Then you go figure in that way the get loop and then your head starts spinning.


I'm the worst mom ever. And then that turns into I just want to hug him and then he won't stop screaming.


And then now we're back on that, that loop. Right.


We did. You know, I needed to reach out to somebody. I got so like I said, it was all kind of during the covid lockdown. My husband got stuck deployed for five months when it was only supposed to be two. And that was a lot tougher. And it got to the point where one day I was driving back from the grocery store and the baby was just unbelievably upset and wouldn't stop crying. And I just instantaneously thought flashed through my head of I could just drive this car right off the road and it would just in and out like that.


I didn't dwell on it. And, you know, you say a lot about like we can control our thoughts, but just even the fact that that crossed my mind, I was like, oh, that's that's not good. That's not a good one.


I'm going to file that on into the. Probably not. Right. Yes. Yeah. Good for you.


Hey, listen, that's so brave because that's a scary thought. It pops in a lot of folks heads. Right. And then most most people will bury that one. So good for you. You knew that crossed even my own lines, right?


Oh, I'm so proud of you.


OK, so when was this your youngest or your only to this point? When were they born? When was he born?


He was born in June of twenty nineteen. OK, and so was about how long. About a year I guess six, seven months. When your husband took off that set it off or just took off when your husband was deployed. Right.


But for the longest stretch of deployment, he has done a couple trips now since then, but for the longest and the hardest. He was probably in that six to 12 months.


And do you have anybody like likes let's take family aside. Some family's real, real helpful. Some family is real, real, not helpful.


And so let's take your family out.


Do you have a group, one or two or three women in your life who have already had kids that you can text and say, is this normal or were you on your own?


I have some friends, but they're mostly like we had moved to Florida to be near my parents and most of our friends with kids were in California and with lockdowns not being able to go to a church or meet any new women. I, I had some I would say I probably could have reached out to, but I think a lot of it was just me being too afraid to, I guess, trust that with anyone other than my husband. Yes.


And that was a lot of pressure on him because he couldn't do anything. He was out of the country and that he felt helpless. Which then you feel like I need to protect him from this, and so then it just gets quieter and quieter and Krider, right? Yeah.


And so as you've as you've spoken it out, I hope you've heard the ark here. Right.


So all postpartum is such a unique experience. And there are people who are this is all they do is work with postpartum depression. And there are some extraordinary O'Higgins who have really dug into not only women's health, but also postpartum psychiatric help. And I've got several friends that folks I've worked with who have talked to me about how awful it is if someone doesn't know what they're doing or how incredible it is when someone sits down and just listens to you. Right.


And so I want to say up front, I'm not a postpartum expert. And more importantly, I have never experienced this. And so me trying to tell you who's experienced that, what you should do just sounds kind of ridiculous. Right. But I'm going to give it a shot. OK, so everyone's listening to know.


I know the last thing on earth is some dude giving somebody else postpartum advice. Right. But as I listen to you tell this narrative, here's a couple of things I picked out. Number one, your bed rock got stuck somewhere else. This guy that you lean on, right. Was stuck somewhere else at a time when they just closed the port. It was scary for everybody. Right. And there's no there's no chance he's coming home, because my guess is he was gone for two months and then he said, hey, baby, I'm not going to be gone for a couple of weeks, which turned into a month, which is like, hey, I think they're going to let us go.


Hold on. No, it's going to be all right. So that thing kept moving and moving. Right. And that gets scarier and scarier, especially as baby gets louder and louder and you get more isolated, more alone.


And then you had just moved. And man, the thing beyond sleep is this. This this disease that we've got in the disease is loneliness. Right. And you found yourself with nobody. You couldn't reach out to anybody. And you're too good of a friend to wake people up on California time. And it got more lonely in your internal alarms. Ring louder and louder and louder. And then you talked about that loop.


And the most common the most common phrase I hear from women who struggling from postpartum is I can't believe my kid got stuck with me as their mom. Right in that devastating feeling that somehow you're going to ruin this kid.


You don't like him, you don't want them, and of course, you love them.


But in those two a.m., I don't like anybody to it. Yeah. Yeah. And so it all starts to loop on itself. So here's here's my number one thing I would tell you is to partner with your doctor in this journey and let them know hopefully you've already done it. Have you already done that? Let them know. Hey, last time this was tough. I haven't I haven't brought it up. OK, I want you so, so shame and this depression, it eats one thing for a for a meal, and that is secrets.


OK? And I want you to know I don't care what thoughts went in your head. And I've heard some really aggressive I've heard some violent thoughts. I've heard some really tough stuff. You're not nuts. OK? I want you to be open with your doctor especially. They're not going to take your kid away. I want you to be open with, obviously, your husband, but I want you to rally a team, OK? So that can look like your parents, his parents.


That can look like any new friends. That can look like friends from California. But I want you to have a team and you are the CEO. You're the quarterback. You were the the military commander. And I want you to be really vocal and direct about what you need.


OK, here's what that's going to look like. I'm going to I want to tap you two. Are you three you three friends from California that you were really close to? I want you to let them know I need you guys during the season. I'm going to text you a crazy hours. I'm going to text you crazy things. I'm going to call you weeping like mad. And I'm trusting you to help me get from here to there. OK, so I want you to and they're going to feel so honored that you were bringing them into this and tell them they are your team.


Right. And then if there is a college kid, if there is a church friend, even if it's your parents or your in-laws, let them know I'm going to call at two o'clock in the morning and I want you all to show up if it's a college going to pay you right.


Or maybe there's some nights of the week you bring them over for me to spend the night with you and let them know if the baby wakes up, there's where the bottles are. I'm going to pay you fifty bucks for being here overnight or whatever that is. And but I got to get some sleep and I want you to protect that. But more importantly, I want you to practice leaning on other people. I also think that this go round is going to be different because, you know, some of the body things, some of the thought things, and you will have some sort of understanding of where we're headed in a rough direction.


Right. And then, you know these things.


Right, about healthy food and sleep and outside walking, exercising those things. And that's why I want you to be up front about calling people. And so when your Mother-In-Law comes over, she's going to know we're not talking or hanging out. We are not friends. I'm going for a walk and then I'm taking a three hour nap. Right. But if you are up front that up front, this, if you will, is not even a word, can be a real gift to people around you who want to help, but they don't know what to do.


So they come over and they feel like they have to entertain you. And then they talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. Right. And then here is the last final thing.


Do not become hyper aware or manic about looking for all of these low moments or any thoughts or anything like that. Does that make sense? Because what you're going to do when you have this baby, you're going to be like, OK, when's the next bad thought coming? When's it coming? When's it right? And you can almost will it into existence, right.


Or can I? It's going to be the night I don't sleep. And then and then the rest for sure. You're not going to sleep now, so deal with it when they come. But don't put it out into the universe. Just be ready to love this knucklehead is a boy or girl. Uh, debois. OK, so you got two boys, yeah. Oh, that's so fun. All right. So just be ready to love this knucklehead with all of your heart.


Know that your other baby is going to be bananas, too.


It's all going to be a mayhem and a mess. Yeah. And you've got to have a team next to you. And I started this with make sure your doctor knows I'm going to end this with don't hide things from your doctor, OK?


Let them know. Hey, I had this thought I had that thought I had these dark feelings. I thought about just taking a quick, sharp left turn into oncoming traffic. I'm so tired. I just want this to stop. And they will look at you and they will say, I hear you, you're OK. And then they will give you some help moving forward. Right. They're not going to steal your baby from you. They're not going to take from the here this stuff with some regularity because postpartum is a hard, hard demon.


OK, so if somebody else reaches out to you and they say, hey, I'm about to have a baby, will you be on my team? I want you to say yes. Yes. What a gift that can be to other folks. My wife had that it was a lifeline, an absolute lifeline, especially when one of them said at one point, one of the pregnancies, he should go talk to somebody. Right. This is getting heavy.


And it was somebody that my wife trusted and it was good.


So a listen, Brianna, you are awesome. You're a great, great mom. You are not bananas. And also you're normal, but you're normal. You love your kid. You're going to love the second one. And it's going to be messy and hard. So what can you do right now? You can move all these hard decisions up front before they get bananas, get an eighteen, get a backup team, get a slate of babysitters if you can.


If you can. You're a pregnant mom. You can do whatever you want. Right.


Or your husband's going to be wander around the house, wonder what he can do to help put him on babysitter duty. And it may just be having somebody come over and spend the night so you can sleep the entire night. Right.


Protect that sleep, protect your health, protect your your getting outside. Right. Protect your knowledge and don't be afraid to reach out.


Thank you so, so much for that call, Brianna. If you if somebody is listening to this or watching, listening, watching this on the Internets and you've got some some tips for folks who experience post-partum, you've experienced it and you were able to to come up with some good strategies, your approach to it. Leave those comments in the comment section here. Don't leave anything stupid and mean leave positive things are going to help people when they're struggling with postpartum.


People are going to Google. I'm struggling to postpartum. How do I help? They're going to come to this video to leave some great things down below. Don't leave any nonsense or Idiocracy. And Brianna, after your baby's born, write in. Let us know everything's healthy. Everybody was doing great and we'll be rooting for you. All right. Go to Frank in Ottawa, Canada. What's up, my Frank? How are we doing?


Hi there, Dr. John. I'm well. How are you? I'm good. I'm good. So what's going on, man?


Well well, thank you for taking my call. I really appreciate your advice and wisdom. So I'm hoping you can shed some light for me and my wife on the situation. So what's happening is our nineteen year old daughter is pregnant with her second child. My wife and I have legal custody or guardianship of her first child, who's now three. This pregnancy was also unplanned. And so we are struggling to find ways to support her and to and to guide her because she's, you know, not really been taking advice and so on.


So that's where we're at.


So when you talk about number one, I'm glad you're there. If that little baby. That's awesome. I know that wasn't how you drew that up. And you all had a whole different plan for this season of life. And it's awesome that Josh stepped up to take care of that grandbaby. When you see help and support, what do you mean? What are you thinking of when you what picture do you have and how I can support my daughter when she won't listen to us?




So good question. So so with the first baby, she was living at home at the time and when the baby was about six, eight months old, she she confided in us that she was having a really hard time, you know, being a mom, which is totally understandable. It's hard being a mom for anyone as per your first caller, you know. Yeah. Honor and let alone a 16 year old single mom at the time. So anyway, so we we with the guidance of our family therapist at the time, we came up with a family plan whereby we would take care of the baby and our daughter would have a chance to go back to school and get back on our feet and all that stuff.


So that was the support we provided at that time. Now, since then, yeah. How did you end up with custody?


That that's a plan. Didn't work. Okay. I thought it was going to. Right, so, so. Exactly, so what happened was she ended up moving out of the house, got into drugs and so on, and so we actually went to court. She moved out of the house without the baby, I should say. She left the baby at home with us. So we went to court and got a court order for custody, custody to be granted to us.


So now she's.


Is there any contingency on that or that baby's yours? It's a temporary order for the next, I want to say three, three or four years.


OK, so we work in the sort of services to get to regain custody or is it expire? If the would, the court order says, is that they will revisit the decision at the expiry of this first order, so she's got a chance to get her crap together.


And if she doesn't, then they'll revisit it and then they'll stamp it for you.


OK, got you. All right. Thanks.


So now there's another one on the way to correct with with a different young man who is, I would say, equally as poor performing as the first one.


Poor. You're the most you're the most articulate father. I would have said that sucks, but good for you. You're a better person than me.


I've said all the words off air so you don't want your grandkid to hear about his dad. You're a good man.


OK, so and I know that I don't I don't want to trash the biological father of a beloved granddaughter in front of her. Right. I know better than to do that. But this this young man is it's not much better to go on it.


So I want to keep this baby.


So she's she's definitely keeping the baby. She's due in August. I think the due date is August 8th or something like that. But she's not living at home. And what makes the situation kind of funny or not funny, but messy, messy here is that she was living with him at his parent's house, but he had some sort of a nervous breakdown a couple of weeks ago. He was hospitalized for a few days and then prescribed antidepressants and antianxiety meds, at which time his mother kicked our daughter out of the house.


So she's now living in a shelter and refuses to take any of the help that us as family are trying to offer.


So why won't she why would she rather be pregnant living in the shelter than come back and live at home?


Yeah, that's a great question. And, you know, we think she she's never been diagnosed, but we think she has oppositional defiance disorder. Yeah.


I don't care about any disorders. Why would she. Why won't she. She was why we don't know where she lives.


We don't allow her enough freedom because she wants the freedom to come and go as she chooses and please us to do OK. She she like I said, she was involved in doing drugs and drinking and stuff and all that stuff. And every time we try to impose a punishment or something, it was as though we were trapped in her style insurance. Well, you were rightfully so.


So is she using drugs now? No, she's clean now. She's she's she's you know, when she was telling my wife, Mom, her mom that she was pregnant, you know, she she was telling her that she's quit smoking and she'd quit smoking weed and all the other stuff she was doing. So.


So she is living in a shelter right now. When's the baby that? August, August 8th, I believe.


OK, so what do you what do you want to do? Well, you know, she's 19 now, you know, so there's very little we can do now.


What do you want to do? If you could snap your fingers? What would you have her? I would have her move back in either with us or with her grandparents, who have also been very supportive. I would want her to take advantage of the support that we are lending her, at least until this baby comes and until she can find a job and get some money in the bank and, you know, develop some sort of a foundation to live on her own.


I don't have much faith that her boyfriend is going to be able to take care of them. You know, he probably won't.


But when's the last time you in her just got together and then had lunch somewhere or wouldn't eat too much pancakes? Yeah, it's been it's been a while.


Would she do that if you called her up tomorrow and said, hey, let's go to breakfast tomorrow, I'm paying. Would you come? I think so. She might. Yeah. So do me this favor.


Don't do me a favor. My life won't change. Do yourself a favor. Spend a couple of days really focusing on what what you are willing to offer and what your boundaries look like. And what you would love to see happen and what is within your power to make happen? And then write it down. Show it to your wife, y'all, to do this together, make sure everybody's on the same page, and then I want you in a low key way.


No drama, no fanfare. No, this is my last stand. I want you to invite your daughter breakfast. And I want you just to check in on her, see she's doing how's a pregnancy going? And if your wife's the right person for this, that's great, too. She can have that meet. That conversation has your body feeling. I remember this and that.


I remember when mom I mean, when my wife experienced explains like a human interaction and. Then let her know I want you to know we'd love to have you come home. And we've had our challenges in the past, you're 19, you're grown up now, we care about you and your health in this baby's health.


This is now going to be the brother or sister of the other child. And we want you to know that you're welcome home. That won't be the conversation for fights, won't be the conversation for four. And if in my house you're not going to be, that's not that this isn't that conversation. This conversation is you being the dad.


You mean the grown up saying, I miss my baby and I want you to be safe and OK over the next six months? And if boyfriend gets this, gets well, gets his crap together, gets on the right road on a good trajectory. Awesome.


But I want you to know that we came after you because you're a daughter. You're still my baby girl. I know you're 19 and you're about to be a mother of two, but I want you know, you can come home all the time for there's no drugs in my house.


The time for you have a curfew. All those those conversations, those boundry conversations, they have to happen.


They don't have to happen now. And what you want to do is reestablish trust and connection with your with your baby girl. OK, will that work in my Pollyanna? Probably. But here's what I want. There's going to either she's going to say she's going to drop her shoulders and say thank you so much or I'll think about it.


Regardless of what happens, she's either going to come home or she's going to wait three or four or five more months. She's going to be real stubborn about this. She's going to find somebody else to move in with. She's going to find some situation. And here's what I want her to have.


I want her to have experiences, letters, first person, breakfast accounts, whatever, that my dad kept coming for me.


He kept coming for me and he kept coming forward because there's going to come a moment, which is going to hit rock bottom is going to come a moment when she needs a warm bed and she's going to remember that guy love me or she's going to have this baby in six months in which she can be so exhausted, so tired, so fill in the blank and she's going to remember, OK, I love me because you're dealing with a child, right?


She's a kid. She's 19. Right. And so. Give her a legacy of that, and if she says no, stay cool, let's go to breakfast again, let's do breakfast every Saturday or Myanmar, we're going to alternate every Saturday until his baby's born. Just because we like you, you're our daughter, and all you're trying to do is not win, not establish boundaries, not make sure fill in the blank. You're just trying to re-establish trust with your daughter.


And she says no. She says no. It's a great I'll try again next week in this is going to be real hard for you and your wife because there's probably going to be rejection. There's probably going to be frustration. You're going to see she's going to gain too much weight now. She's going to lose a bunch of weight. She's not going to be healthy. She's not going to actually shower. It's going to be really hard. And you all have to be the super adults here and keep going back and going back and leaning in and leaning in.


Or the alternative is you can cut her off. So best of luck to you. I wish you well. Oh, we don't want to do that. That's right. And I to tell you, I, I could do that to my daughter. Right. Right now I'm going to my boundaries and I don't want it.


I don't want you to hear me say, man, she just gets to run roughshod over you guys know this is the prodigal son. This is like, man, come home, come home. Right.


And I also know that when a teenager gets something in their head that is not accurate, but that it gives them an opportunity to pit themselves against their family. Man, I'm gonna cut through all that nonsense, right? I'm going to cut through all that crap. I'm not going to I'm not going to be a part of that. This is the moment you get to come home, right when I see that. How does that sound, Frank?


Yeah, I think it sounds it sounds fine. You know, we've we've definitely expressed that the you know, the porch lights on and the door open, but not in in such an intentional manner, like what you like, what you just described. So I think we can we can try to continue expressing that in the way that you just described.


Do you guys all laugh together? When's the last time your laugh together? It was it was over when she actually told us, like three weeks ago she was over to visit with her daughter and visit with the family. And, you know, we had a movie night and popcorn and had a good time then. And that's actually when she felt comfortable enough to tell us what was going on. So, yeah.


So she's a 19 year old mother of two. She's an adult and the eyes of the law. And she's a kid. Right. And if this may not work in every family, I've got a family with a deranged sense of humor, but if this is me, you know what my first line would be?


Well, we gave you a bunch of curfews and rules that didn't work. So come on. All right. I mean, there's a there's an entryway to this to be funny. There's an entryway to this to be really loving. Here's another beautiful thing. If you write her a letter so she can read it when she leaves a great thing, 18, 19 and 20 year olds are good at doing is feeling really good in the moment. They get uncomfortable later on in the day, in the week with those feelings like we're not supposed to hate my parents because they're ruining my life.


And I felt a sense of love for my dad. I got to come up with some fill in the blank. Right. If you write her a letter, she can go back to it and go back to it and go back to it. So when she leaves, the letter will have nothing about rules. Those will come. The letter will have nothing about you know, you should have known better. None of that. The letter will just simply be you or my baby girl.


And I would love it if you came home. I want you to always know that we love your mom and I love you.


We drive you crazy and you drive us crazy. Tag your. We're both hit. Right.


But you and this new little grandbaby, you're going to have a place to go be hyper intentional bewith. Not at. This is a mother of two man. Right. There's a mother to be with. Not at. And I hope and I'm so hopeful that you can come in humbly if there's things you need to apologize for, if you raise your voice, yell, acted like an idiot. This is that moment for you to go first. Be humble, you say, because the goal here is reconnection.


Then I got the goal here isn't to lecture. Right. The goal here is safe baby and grandbaby. The goal here is not to win an argument and to establish those boundaries. Those will come. This is the moment for connection due to love your heart. Frank, let us know how that conversation goes. Let me I'm going to be thinking about this one.


Let me know how that conversation goes with you and your daughter, how that breakfast goes. And man, if she comes back, moves back in with you guys, will cheer you on. If she does, it will cheer you on anyway. Man, thank you so much for that call. All right. So I want to go to an email real quick. This is an email that we get a bunch of. And so, Kelly, pull just a representative one.


Here we go.


Says, What do you do? What do you book you recommend?


Educate on how to have hard conversations. I've heard you and Dave Ramsey mention it often, and I struggle with this, but I can't seem to force myself to fix it. And not only for myself, but my spouse and children. When I managed to bring up the hard topic, it is hard for the other person too, and the conversation ends up going nowhere. I've been there. All right. So here's two classic books.


I'm going to pull them up here and James will link to these in the show notes the book, one is Crucial Conversations, Tools for Talking When Stakes Are High by Patterson, Greaney and et cetera. And the other one is difficult. Conversations by Douglas Stone, Bruce Patton and Shaheen. These are good books, right?


Here's a couple of thoughts. I have never. These are good. I've always got good at practicing hard conversations by being really intentional, right? So here's a couple of thoughts on hard conversations. No. One, hard conversations are stories. They aren't battles. They aren't blamed. They're about relational movement and problem solving. Right.


That's why I hate some modern media and even some approaches to our legal system. We are obsessed with blame. Who's fault? Who did this? What happens when this is your approach? You never get around to solving the problem because everyone's obsessed with blaming others. And then when I get blamed, I got to defend myself. Right. So generally, people are in two camps. They want to win engagements, right? They want to win a hard conversation or they get crushed in a hard conversation.


They're doormats. Right. So here's what I want you to do.


I want you to write down a list of the hard conversations you need to have. Right, write them down, right, and who you need to have them with and they're going to rank, they're going to have order to him, right? They're going to have like I've got to tell my wife about leaving the towels on the floor. I can't I cannot step over wet towels anymore.


It's making me insane all the way down to I need to have a really hard conversation with my dad about how he treated so and so on the holidays. I just made that up. My old man was great.


But, you know, I'm talking about I want you to write them all down, right? So if you are someone who must win at all cost, I want you to get with your spouse or your friend, someone you trust. I want you to practice presenting the challenge and letting them pretend to return. And you are not allowed to return fire. You can only say thank you. Thank you for sharing that.


So if you're somebody that, you know, let's say your wife comes in and says, hey, you were late last night and you are so quick, you have your mind is fast. Why are you late last night? You're always late.


And your response was, oh yeah, well. And you fill in the blank room, you can rapid fire, you can slice and dice somebody up. Right. Then I want you to look at your list of conversations I need to have and I want you to have I want you to practice well with your buddies and all you can respond with is thank you. And over the course of the next few days, I want you to process your feelings, because if you're somebody that's got a win, it's got a great on to stick in your soul and it's going to just go over.


Are you pissed off? You can't come back. Are you sad that they hurt you? What role are you playing in this issue?


Right on the other side, if you're a doormat, I want you to write out your answers, your thoughts and read them. And I want you to practice responding in a dignified and respectable way. So let's say your wife was yelling at you and screaming at you smashed a wine glass and you left the next morning you walk in and she says, Oh, now you're coming home. I want you to say, hey, let's set up a time this afternoon for us to have a conversation, let's set up a time.


And at that point, you'll have written and practices things in a non charged environment, that's when you're going to have this engagement, not with somebody who's ready to fight, not with a husband or a friend or a coworker or a boss who's ready to fight. Right. I want you to practice responding in a dignified and respectful way. And when you write it down, you don't have to worry about your thoughts getting all jumbled up on you and you can engage in the conversation.


I'm actually both of these, depending on the topic. If it's something I get real heated about, I got to win the engagement. Right. And if it's something that I know I've played a role in a little bit, I can become a doormat. And there has been seasons when I've had hard conversations and actually said, I need to read this because my thoughts are going to get all jumbled up.


And I've read it and I've been able to walk through it very succinctly even yesterday.


Yesterday, I got a disagreement with someone I care about and actually just stepped away. I actually just stepped away and came back later and said I had to step away there. Here's what's going on in my heart, in my head right now. And let's have this hard conversation. Right. So having these books are great. I think it's important to practice these things that people that you trust is just ridiculous. It can be if your buddies came over for a couple of drinks and just play games, like, by the way, while we're here, I'm going to practice having a hard conversation with you that's going to sound.


They're going to look at you like, how about I'm just going to leave because you're an idiot. All right. It's super, super important to practice. And here's a big global thing.


It's important that when you're having hard conversations, you've got to realize that if you win and they lose or if you lose and they win, you both lose. If you both win, then you both win, always know where you want to get when you're having a hard conversation, always know what the goal of the outcome is. Right. Where am I going with this?


I just want to hit somebody, just want to make sure they know how much I hurt or they need to know that I'm going to be transitioning out of this job because of X, Y and Z.


So they need to know this behavior is not OK with me talking to me or my kids or my wife isn't OK with me in. This will not happen again or fill in the blank here. Right. Remember to folks approach folks with curiosity.


Hey, why did you say that? Hey, every time I come home, you always greet me at the door with this. Why right approach folks with curiosity, not judgment and go from there. Check these books out.


But that's my thoughts on crucial conversations, on hard conversations, how to lean into him. At the end of the day, you got to just do it. You got to do it last thing. And this drives me bananas. How often I've waited years. I've put up with just nonsense because I don't have a hard conversation and what I ended up doing was feeling a little bit awful for a long, long, long time, instead of having one hard, hard season, have the hard conversations, write them down, have them.


All right. I'll quit talking about that.


Let's go to Alicia in New York City. Lucia, what's up?


How are you, Doctor? Doing so good. How are you? I'm good. I'm good. I wanted to talk to you because I pretty much have a unique situation. Bring it on. Let's do it. So I'm lucky enough that at work I got picked for a fast track program. Very cool. That's the upside.


What's what's what's the fast track program like a leadership track or something? Yes, dude. Where to go. Leesha. Thank you. Thank you.


Very excited. And in this leadership program, they shoot us like you do. Really sad.


No, the thing is, I believe me, I'm excited. You know, we're going to get to travel and there's a lot of good things coming for us. A huge opportunity. However, I cannot wrap my head around the public speaking aspect. Oh, no.


Are you guys phobic? You don't like speaking in public. Oh. It's it's happened like in the last few years, I was never I don't think I was ever this nervous, but it has gotten terrible.


Are you nervous now because you're telling like you are talking to? Well, there's only like thirty eight listeners we doubled in the last week. Is this make you nervous being on the show or is that a little bit. OK, a little bit. A little bit.


All right. So walk me through. You're on a stage. Is it big crowds? A little crowds. Are any crowds?


Oh, my God. I'm on a stage. I think I pass out. I think it's just I think it's especially when it's work. I think it's because I put so much pressure on myself that I have to be on point at all times. So, you know, where does where does that come from, Alicia?


Probably because I was a young man, OK? I've had to. Basically. Do everything. Have you been able to do everything? Sorry. Oh, you're good. Have you been. No, no, no, no, no, I'm not letting you get away with luck. That's one of those things that single moms do to not be able to look in the mirror and say, hey, you know, what's up? I'm so dope. A militia from NYC and I run this town.


No, it's not luck, I worked your butt off, haven't you? Yes. Then you're real smart, aren't you? Yes, and you grow and raise you grew and raised a human and still managed to be on the leadership track, right? Yes, and I bet your baby loves you, too, huh? Yes, I'm very blessed. No, I mean, you are, but you're also a good mom, too, right? Yeah, I'd do anything for them.


Oh, that's so cool. All right, so you put a lot into this. And you're the higher ups, wherever you work, have said, man, you are the future of this place and we're going to invest in you. And there's a part of you that's like, yeah, that's what's up, and there's another part of you, it's like, oh no, they're going to find out. Is that fair, you know? Yes, that is pretty accurate.


And you can you how many kids you have have to you can raise two humans and just I'm going to do this. You know, if the thought of raising two kids by myself, that makes me want to not be alive and you just handle that with grace and dignity and power and strength, getting on a stage as simple man, that's just acting. Be a clown up there. Right.


So when you think of getting on a stage, have you ever just gotten up to give a speech and just blown it? Just completely wet the bed on it. Not that awful, no, I think I've stumbled and said a couple of things that, you know, of course, I would have done differently, but no, not have you ever got off stage in your co-workers are like that's the last time you're ever going to do that?


No, I have. I have. And I do this for a living.


Right. Are you still there? Yes, for a second. OK, that last question, I thought you said I'm out of here. I said, no, no, no, no. I'm saying I was asking, have you ever screwed up so bad that your co-worker said, hey, you can never speak here again? No. OK, I have and I do, speaking for a living, that's my job. OK. All right. So tell me, what are you terrified of?


Like, what do you think is going to going to happen? Happen?


I think it's just a failure. The not living up to OK, especially now. Right now I'm in this now it's like, oh my God, you have to just maintain and keep going. And and I, I am an overprepare. OK, I will, I will, you know, prepare and read over and look at everything and try to prepare for all the questions. And I think my biggest fear is if there's a question that I don't have the answers to, I'm going to teach you a magic magic phrase.


You ready? While you're talking about being an overprepare, I'm watching James and Kelly, they're just rolling their eyes back there. They're like, wow, that must be nice to work with someone who actually prepares.


Here's a magic phrase. OK, I'm going to save you a million dollars. Ready? Repeat after me. I don't know. I'm going to find that out. It's I don't know.


I'm going to find that out. You see. Look at that. Do we were solving problems on this show? All right. So here's the thing about glass phobia. That's just the nerd term for fear of speaking in public, right? It is. I've never read the direct study, but anecdotally, it's repeated often enough that I'm going to consider it fact for the time being that it is the most common phobia.


People are more scared of speaking in public and they are actually being dead.


OK, and for somebody who speaks in public for a living, I can't wrap my head around that. But I do. I can hear it enough to know here folks like you that like I would never, ever get on that stage and do that.


So there's preparing. Where you out or is it exciting? Is it fun? I like I like getting, you know, when I start feeling comfortable, like, OK, I got this, like, you know, I'm here, I got that of there. Yes, I do get worn out sometimes.


OK, so a couple of things I want you to know. Number one. I was working here, and you know the name Dave Ramsey, is that name ring a bell? Yes, OK.


It was like three o'clock or four o'clock in the afternoon. I just finished filming some stuff and I was about to leave and there was a small event. This is right before covid kicked off. There was a small event that was going to take place on a Saturday up here at the building that they were filming for a video shoot. And wouldn't you know that on stage at 3:00 or 4:00 in the afternoon was not only Dave Ramsey, but also my buddy Chris Hogan, who both of them have done live events in front of millions of people.


And there was a small stage they were both on. They were both facing opposite directions and they were practicing a talk they were going to give to a couple hundred people. And that's when I realized, oh, that's what the greats do. They practice, they prepare.


And I had just been a guy that would write down a speech on the back of an envelope as I'm walking up on stage and it's gotten me by. But I realized, whoa, this is a whole other level of preparation.


And so you've already got that right. You've already got the part where I need to make sure I know what I'm going to say. The people in the audience. I want to be a steward of the most precious resource on Earth. They have not their time, but 30 minutes an hour that you're giving that talk. They can never have that time back. I'm going to be a steward. I'm going to practice them and I'm going to say. And so then from there, I'm going to give you a couple things that can help you on stage, OK?


And then a couple of things off of it. All right.


So I'm ready to think of public speaking, not as a lecture, but as a conversation.


When when I switched from thinking I had to give info to I was just having a conversation with folks, everything from my heart rate change, my shoulders changed, all my physiology changed because what I was doing in my body was different. I wasn't talking at people. I wasn't teaching at people. I just talking to folks. And it just shifted. And suddenly I've given that same talk to ten people around a table that I've given to a thousand people.


In the interim, it becomes the same thing because I'm ten minute conversation. I can adjust it by people and size, but it changes my whole heart.


Right in the speakers I've met that I love the most on stage are very similar to who they are off stage. So instead of thinking it as a performance, as a make or break is now I'm you know, I'm a Backstreet Boy or I'm Jay-Z, like, I got to go up and the lights are on. I mean, I was having a conversation backstage. I was having a conversation with three people. I'm going to go have a conversation with three hundred people on stage.


It just shifts the entire your entire physiology. Right.


And then as things get more magnified and bigger, your heart, Hartsdale, your heart rate will stay the same.


You know, you talk about you're prepared, right?


You're way ahead of me, Alicia. And that just becomes about and I bet. Are you real funny? My guess is you are real funny, like dry witty. Someone's going to say something and you will just you might drop after Mike dropped with your friend group. Is that fair?


I can yes, I can be very quick, see if it's something that is completely non work related. It's totally different, but I'm like, I'm game, let's do this. But when it's work related, it's like, oh, OK.


OK, so here's here's where that anxiety gap is, is the gap between you. Who's the person that your company hired you, who is hilarious and your friends love and you're trying to put a space between them. And I want you to close that space and I want you to be you everywhere because the world needs to hear about single moms.


You are awesome. Get put on leadership tracks. Right? Right.


You've got some you've got some wisdom to share that me in my community, to hear that you're working, you need to hear that the world needs to hear. Right.


There's a fair now your company is paying to make you better. They are fast tracking you. How can we get her in front of more people quicker? That's how much they invest, how much they think you're good. Right. So I want you to close that gap and I want you to be witty and funny in conversation with your buddies at the bar the same way you got two kids at the bar.


There seemed like at day daycare, whatever. I don't know where you happen to be going from place to place.


And I want you to be the same person on a stage and they are going to eat you up. And that just has to do with I'm going to have conversation. I'm not performing. Right.


Here's the second thing. The the nerd word is exposure therapy, that's just a fancy way for saying you got to put yourself in situations where you got to do it.


And that can look like signing up for different kinds of speeches, all different kinds of places. If there's a moms group, a education group on Saturdays, if it's a church group, whatever that looks like, wherever you can get in front of folks to practice the skill of just being who you are offstage, walk up on stage.


Heart rate never changes. I'm just gonna have a conversation.


Man, you're going to get better and better and better at it, because when you talk to ten, you can talk to a thousand, you can talk to a thousand or you can talk to one hundred, you can talk to five thousand. It's easier that way because man, they are more distant and further along. Right. And then here's the final thing. Find your humor in everyday moments and take it on stage with you. Give me a funny joke right now.


You can do it. Do it. Make me laugh, Aleesha. Oh, it was a funny thing your kid has done recently. Oh, my kids in his 20s, so they just can't you know, my kids are in their 20s, so they make fun of me constantly.


So all I want is my car. And you are at the bar. All right.


So what's one thing that make you laugh? What's one thing they do that makes me laugh? Yes. Oh, when they just do imitations of of how I raise them. OK, so what you're going to do, you're going to take those imitations of how they raise you and you're going to imitate them, imitating you. And that's going to be an awesome lead into your to any sort of talk you're going to give. And everyone in the audience is going to either have had parents that they imitate and mock or they're going to have kids.


They're tired of imitating them. Right. It's the whole man.


You're going to build rapport with that with that audience, find places to practice, be who you're going to be offstage on stage just to have a conversation with folks.


And more importantly, know this. Your company would not be investing in you if they didn't think you were the right person here.


I want you to hang on the line, Alysha. I'm going to give you a copy of this book, Redefining Anxiety. This any sort of phobia tends to manifest itself in these in this this anxiety, especially this is situational anxiety. When you check this book out, read it. Everybody else out, there's books. Ten bucks. It's easy read if you can't read those books for you.


If you're really smart, fancypants is for sure for you because you're not just kidding, but check it out.


Ten bucks. You can get it on jungling dotcom. But Aleesha, hang on the line and we're going to mail you a free copy here. All right.


So as we wrap up today's show, I realize to all my metal buddies I'm committing a party foul and I don't care.


I don't care, in 2005, I listened to all the way through the record and I was about to make Cool's girls good record and they did a good job in the last song, The Last. I think it's track 15. Twenty five off the record entitled X Y, and I know you shouldn't do Coldplay songs, but I'm doing it anyway. Doing it anyway. Here's how the song goes, right? Still my heart and hold my tongue, I feel my time, my time has come, let me in, unlock the door.


I've never felt this way before and the wheels just keep on turning. The drummer begins to drum. I don't know which way I'm going. I don't know which way I've come. Hold my head inside your hands. I need someone who understands. I need someone. Someone who hears for you. I've waited all these years for you. I'd wait till kingdom come. Oh man, I'm getting romantic now. How do you not love Coldplay until my day.


My day is done and say you'll come and set me free. Just say you'll wait. You'll wait for me. The name of that song is Till Kingdom Come. I don't want to give it away because you suckers have bad attitudes about Coldplay, especially you, Kelly. This has been the Dr. John Allen Show.